Path of Daggers Signing Report, November 15th
Matthew Hunter
http://www.andrew.cmu.edu/user/mhunter/Fantasy/Authors/Jordan/podsigning.html
The text version is below:
November 14th, Path of Dagger Signing, Louisville
There was an early rush of signees (an hour and a half or so), followed by
about half an hour of questions and answers with little plot-related info,
but a lot of other interesting tidbits. Someone asked about the cover art
and got a surprisingly informative answer. There are some pretty substantial
sections for Flavio and the rest of the military buffs, too.
Plot information
I was able to ask a few questions, and listen in to a few others. We got
three of the "it should be inuitively obvious to the intelligent reader"
answers, and one other that told us a bit more... but not much. The Creator
was pretty tight with his plot information this time around, according to
him, because "certain readers have built up these huge logic trees," and
"can figure out way too much if I say anything at all."
The first "intuitively obvious" question was from someone else: The old
standby, "Who killed Asmodean?" He added that there have been clues in (at
least some, maybe all of) the books published since then. I take this
statement to mean that Graendal is the killer; she's the only one for whom
the case could be called "intuitively obvious", as it is mostly built up
through a process of elimination and a few supporting comments.
The second was mine: "Do you consider the identities of Moridin and Cyndane
to be intuitively obvious?" He said yes, they should be fairly obvious by
now, in many more words. To me, this means Ishy and Lanfear respectively.
The third was someone else again, and I didn't hear the question clearly,
but I think it was about the weird Power effects. Assuming I heard
correctly, this should support the Bowl theory, due to the lack of effects
in Andor despite the gateway detonation and the timing of the effect first
showing up. Of course, he didn't say so explicitly, but that is what would
seem to be the intuitively obvious explanation.
I chimed in later on to ask if "there was a physical resemblence between
Cyndane and a certain height-challenged Aes Sedai". He said "We don't know
yet." I think that means yes, which is interesting. If there hadn't been
one, he could have said no, and he has written the descriptions of Cyndane
ambiguously enough to prevent any proof either way.
My last question concerned the glossary -- the bit about "speculation is
futile." I asked, "Do you really expect that to stop us?" He said of course
not.
Background and Personal Information
After the early rush of signees was over with (there were 162 people with
tickets, and quite a few without), about 20 people settled in for a bit of
discussion without the pressure of signers. Plot-related information was
sparse, and there were relatively few questions, because the answers were
long. There were a few tidbits thrown to the slavering hounds, and a lot of
exposition.
Tidbits
* The Aiel were based on bits of the apache, zulu, bedouin, and arab(?)
cultures. Nothing starting here, but I don't think we've had this one
answered as a complete list before. It was fired off really fast, so I
may have missed some...
* Path of Daggers was finished August 25th, and published in less than 60
days.
* The usual "at least 3 more books" was mentioned several times in an
increasingly loud voice.
* Who killed Asmo?
o It should be "intuitively obvious".
o There ARE clues in later books. They may not be necessary, but
they are there. I am not sure if he said "later" or "latest",
though.
o He does indeed mean "intuitively obvious" in the sense that his
math teachers would use when describing a proof, as speculated on
rasfwr-j. "I always hated that."
* There were some jokes about the sheer mass of the books -- "There will
be a boxed set when the series is complete... on wheels."
* The Museum Replicas weapons are good. The design work (some of it at
least) was done by the same person who did the maps, for a somewhat
unusual price. I don't quite recall their name, and can't decipher my
handwriting now.
* "I grew up around strong women; weak men were pickled and salted. The
women wouldn't waste time raising a weak boy."
* Evidentally, Jordan didn't like being taught cursive, but showed
otherwise by a teacher at a young age. "A gentleman's handwriting is
always round and legible, always clear, no matter how drunk, how tired,
or how busy he may be. This I require of you." Being "required" to do
something by that particular teacher was evidentally a big deal.
* Someone asked about multiple books. Jordan said that the rule was that
you had to go through the line for every two books, and that he would
"enforce the rules with my bullwhip if necessaary"; a bookstore
employee(?) commented that it was more of a guideline really. General
laughter and bullwhip comments ensued, culminating with "Just so no one
asks, 'Can I fondle your bullwhip?'" from Jordan. (I didn't catch all
of this. I regretted it. Oh well.)
* Book timings:
o 4 years to write Eye of the World; the next 5 took 14-16 months
each
o aCoS took 22-23 months to write.
o The Guide to the Wheel of Time took 5-6 months; there was a lot of
work he had to do on it that he didn't expect to need to do. I
think he expected a few weeks of work from him directly, with it
mostly being done by others.
o New Spring took 2-3 months
o Strike At Shayul Ghul was written from the perspective of a
scholar trying to attract funding for a more complete version (ie,
grant money) and was his first piece of short fiction.
* Where did ideas come from?
o "What if you were tapped on the shoulder and told you had to save
the world?"
o What are the sources of myths? "reverse-engineered" legends.
o The game of "telephone" (he calls it "whisper").
* Proud of the little things that slip up on you, like Callandor being
"The Sword in the Stone."
* Path of Daggers could have been longer, but he had to take out events
he had intended to include because including them would have required
another month of Randland time, and that would have made the book
"twice as fat."
* Jordan likes his fans, because:
o We don't ask for autographs in blood (his, or theirs)
o We have never given him a gift of a dead cat's head on a stake. At
least not in public.
* On Pronunciation:
o Aes Sedai: "I said eye."
o Nynaeve: "Nine eve"
o Faile: "FAI-eel"
o Tear: not "tire".
* Lots of minor comments thinly veiled towards the net-jordanites. I got
the impression he thinks we're a bit obsessive but appreciates it. Some
of the more interesting ones:
o "I like the idea of Bela as a Darkfriend."
o "There is an alphanumeric code in the copyright page." He expects
us to decode it shortly. Let's get cracking!
o "How do you know Mat isn't back as Cyndane?"
o "Any crazy rumors I can start on the Web are good."
* Started off thinking there were at least 3-4 books. By the time he got
to the third, he knew it would be at least 6.
Learning to read
It seems Jordan learned to read by having his father read to him constantly
(when he was being read to, he wasn't messing around with expensive "toys"
that broke easily). They started out with children's books, until Dad found
out that it didn't matter whether Jordan really understood or not, and
started reading books that Dad wanted to read instead. This went on for a
while, until the night Dad put a book away before it was finished, so Jordan
grabbed it and struggled through it on his own, figuring out what he didn't
understand through context. (The Maltese Falcon was mentioned, but I don't
recall how, other than as one of the books that he liked.)
When Jordan was 6, he got a library card -- like "the keys to the city". The
librarians didn't want to let him out of the kids section, so he learned
tricks. If you shelved books in the reading room, they would stay there, so
you could pick them up again later, whether they belonged there or not. And
kids could go to the reference section. "I discovered the encyclopedia."
The library at the time was in a mansion -- the "Miskelle house", I think.
He spelled it for me (without being asked; by that time there had been more
than one comment about the lunatic scribbling notes on everything), but my
notes were rather cramped by that time.
"Reading is like breathing. If you take it away, first I become antsy, then
violent."
Other Favored Authors
I missed quite a few of these while I tried to scribble it all down.
* CS Friedman
* Hu Hart ?
* Guy Gavariel Kay
* Turtledove
* Most Rcommended: Guns, Germs, and Steel
Historical Tidbits and Background Information
When China Ruled the Seas
Evidentally, China was a real behemoth in the middle ages, right on the
track to world domination, until they decided they didn't really want to
rule the world. The following is a summary from hastily scribbled notes on a
subject about which I am relatively ignorant; if I fuck up, it means I can't
read my notes.
1484
In the time before Columbus...
China has a huge fleet of ships (3000 of them, half-million crew), printing
presses, generally huge technological advantage over everywhere else. The
fleet is commanded by a name that translates as "Three-Jeweled Eunuch"
(although he was evidentally not a eunuch??). The fleet had superior
logistics (well, something about logistics right about here) and had reached
Madasgascar. They were planning to round the Cape of Good Hope and see what
they found.
1490
The year they would have reached Europe... and overwhelmed it.
Unfortunately, bad things happened. The current Emperor died and was
succeded by his son, who was young and had self-confidence problems. The
palace eunuchs (evidentally a powerful political force) grew concerned over
the changes caused by outside influences, believing them to be corrupting
Chinese culture. They convinced the Emperor to shut China off from the rest
of the world by burning seafaring boats (including that huge fleet!),
restricting foreigners to certain cities and killing them if they were
caught outside, and killing Chinese who left to see the world and then
returned.
It seems the Japanese also did this -- twice, in fact.
This was a very long spiel coming from the nonfiction military history books
he recommended. There was a lot more detail than I managed to capture, but
one thing that stood out in my mind was that he had just told us the origins
of Shara and the Seanchan. Or some of them, at least.
Cover Art
Someone asked how he chose the cover artist, and we got a nice long spiel
with some previously unknown information. Jordan and his wife went through
bookstores picking out books based on their (if they liked it) cover art and
finding out who did the cover. It came down to two artists, Darrel K Sweet
and Michael Whelan. The deciding factor was that Whelan wants the manuscript
to read for a year before he will deliver a cover, and they just couldn't
wait that long.
They are apparently considering a later reissue of the entire series with
different covers, perhaps by Whelan, once it is complete.
Some stores simply won't carry fantasy, so all the books have been issued
without cover art to expand the market. This came up in response to aCoS
paperback being artless. Why we haven't seen any of these others without
art, I don't know.
Sweet Criticism and General Commentary
* Rand is NOT tall enough.
* The Path of Daggers details are mostly right, at least.
* Rand has a different face on each cover.
* DKS has never done the trollocs right: "They are NOT hairy men with
animal-like helmets."
* Detail problems with Sweet are due to communication difficulties; there
is not much time or oppurtunity for input.
* Path of Daggers: "The Elvis cover."
* A Crown of Swords: "The pugilist cover."
* Lord of Chaos: "Take my room key, please!"
Meta-Information
The signing was held at Hawley-Cooke booksellers (a locally-owned store,
very nice), and lasted about 2 hours. The official plan was to head on to
Cincinatti immediately afterward in preperation for the next day's signing.
As noted before, Jordan's wife was not present (she had to leave earlier on
the tour for unspecified reasons). There was at least one person from Tor (a
publicist IIRC) and perhaps two, both women. Jordan travels in a stretch
limo, with what looked like a chase car, but that could be coincidence.
--
Matthew Hunter (mhu...@andrew.cmu.edu)
P. Korda
Karl-Johan Noren <k-j-...@dsv.su.se> wrote:
>In <slrn74v6kr....@elite.res.cmu.edu>,
>mhu...@andrew.cmu.edu (Matthew Hunter) wrote:
Spoilers for POD:
>> I chimed in later on to ask if "there was a physical resemblence between
>> Cyndane and a certain height-challenged Aes Sedai". He said "We don't know
>> yet." I think that means yes, which is interesting. If there hadn't been
>> one, he could have said no, and he has written the descriptions of Cyndane
>> ambiguously enough to prevent any proof either way.
>ObVious: or _he_ doesn't know.
>But we'll have to check on Moiraine's body build.
IIRC, she's described as "slender." Generally, "impressive bosoms" are
not coupled with a slender build without silicone assistance.
-pam
Aaron Bergman
>In article <wkg1bip...@dsv.su.se>,
>Karl-Johan Noren <k-j-...@dsv.su.se> wrote:
>>In <slrn74v6kr....@elite.res.cmu.edu>,
>>mhu...@andrew.cmu.edu (Matthew Hunter) wrote:
>
>Spoilers for POD:
>
>
>
>>> Cyndane and a certain height-challenged Aes Sedai". He said "We don't know
>>> yet." I think that means yes, which is interesting. If there hadn't been
>>> one, he could have said no, and he has written the descriptions of Cyndane
>>> ambiguously enough to prevent any proof either way.
>
>>But we'll have to check on Moiraine's body build.
>
>IIRC, she's described as "slender." Generally, "impressive bosoms" are
>not coupled with a slender build without silicone assistance.
That's not what DKS thinks, judging by the cover.
There's the famous scene in TDR, I suppose, but I think that
was lacking in description.
Aaron
J Greely
>IIRC, she's described as "slender." Generally, "impressive bosoms" are
>not coupled with a slender build without silicone assistance.
Depends on what you're more impressed by, size or shape.
Then again, who's to say that there isn't some young wilder whose
OP "trick" was a method of using saidar to redistribute body fat
in interesting ways...
-j
Richard M. Boye'
>
> In article <wkg1bip...@dsv.su.se>,
> Karl-Johan Noren <k-j-...@dsv.su.se> wrote:
> >In <slrn74v6kr....@elite.res.cmu.edu>,
> >mhu...@andrew.cmu.edu (Matthew Hunter) wrote:
>
> Spoilers for POD:
>
> >> Cyndane and a certain height-challenged Aes Sedai". He said "We don't know
> >> yet." I think that means yes, which is interesting. If there hadn't been
> >> one, he could have said no, and he has written the descriptions of Cyndane
> >> ambiguously enough to prevent any proof either way.
>
> >But we'll have to check on Moiraine's body build.
>
> not coupled with a slender build without silicone assistance.
Also, when Moiraine is in the Stone, commenting upon HLady Alteima's
appearance, she notes taht she regards Alteima as "a bit too full in the
bosom, but she did tend to judge things from her own size."
Translation? Moiraine was on the small side.
--
Richard M. Boye' * wa...@webspan.net
* http://www.webspan.net/~waldo/ * ICQ:9021244
"In the circus of life, sometimes if you taunt the bearded
lady long enough, she'll just throw prizes at you."
John S. Novak, III
>I chimed in later on to ask if "there was a physical resemblence between
>Cyndane and a certain height-challenged Aes Sedai". He said "We don't know
>yet." I think that means yes, which is interesting.
If you mean Moiraine... I never, in my wildest dreams, pictured
Moiraine as having an "impressive bosom." Much less silver hair.
> * Where did ideas come from?
> o "What if you were tapped on the shoulder and told you had to save
> the world?"
"Hey, no problem. Wait, let me go get my calculator..."
> * Proud of the little things that slip up on you, like Callandor being
> "The Sword in the Stone."
He thinks that was subtle?
The cavalry invasion of Ilian-- that was subtle.
> * Jordan likes his fans, because:
> o We don't ask for autographs in blood (his, or theirs)
Not yet.
> o We have never given him a gift of a dead cat's head on a stake. At
> least not in public.
Not yet.
> * Lots of minor comments thinly veiled towards the net-jordanites. I got
> the impression he thinks we're a bit obsessive but appreciates it. Some
> of the more interesting ones:
> o "There is an alphanumeric code in the copyright page." He expects
> us to decode it shortly. Let's get cracking!
I ran the ISBN through the Sooper Sekrit Government Decoder Machines,
which promptly spat out: "Uhhh, I think Brain-- but where are we
going to find rubber pants in our size?"
>"Reading is like breathing. If you take it away, first I become antsy, then
>violent."
And eventually purple and then very, very still.
>Other Favored Authors
>I missed quite a few of these while I tried to scribble it all down.
> * Hu Hart ?
Hughart, perhaps? This would make excellent sense.
>Evidentally, China was a real behemoth in the middle ages, right on the
>track to world domination, until they decided they didn't really want to
>rule the world. The following is a summary from hastily scribbled notes on a
>subject about which I am relatively ignorant; if I fuck up, it means I can't
>read my notes.
That, and those pesky Mongols.
>This was a very long spiel coming from the nonfiction military history books
>he recommended. There was a lot more detail than I managed to capture, but
>one thing that stood out in my mind was that he had just told us the origins
>of Shara and the Seanchan. Or some of them, at least.
And no one asked him what Clauswitz would have thought of the Aiel?
Criminal.
>They are apparently considering a later reissue of the entire series with
>different covers, perhaps by Whelan, once it is complete.
Can I just buy the damned covers?
>Sweet Criticism and General Commentary
> * A Crown of Swords: "The pugilist cover."
Did anyone ever tell him what my interpretation of that cover was?
("Rand, standing in the redlight district of Shadar Logoth, jerking
off his invisible Ogier friend.")
All in all, sounds like he had a good bit of fun.
--
John S. Novak, III j...@concentric.net
The Humblest Man on the Net
John S. Novak, III
>>ObVious: or _he_ doesn't know.
>>But we'll have to check on Moiraine's body build.
>IIRC, she's described as "slender." Generally, "impressive bosoms" are
>not coupled with a slender build without silicone assistance.
She's not only slender, she's Cairhienin, and Cairhienins are known
for their small, slight builds. And while I have known some young
women with both slender builds and, ah, naturally impressive bosoms,
they're not usually described simply as slim. They're generally
described as "Slim'n'stacked."
Not by me, of course.
Not in earshot.
Under normal circumstances.
But the general premise is correct, here-- I don't see Moiraine having
that body type.
Richard M. Boye'
>
> On 16 Nov 1998 10:22:41 GMT, Matthew Hunter <mhu...@andrew.cmu.edu> wrote:
> >I chimed in later on to ask if "there was a physical resemblence between
> >Cyndane and a certain height-challenged Aes Sedai". He said "We don't know
> >yet." I think that means yes, which is interesting.
>
> If you mean Moiraine... I never, in my wildest dreams, pictured
> Moiraine as having an "impressive bosom." Much less silver hair.
For a brief minute there, I thought with dreadful recognition that the
"Mofear" theory had been proved true.
If it was simply a small woman with silver hair, it might work. I have
long suspected that when Lanfear makes her re-entre she would be
"disfigured" in someway. It's a cliche, sure, the beautiful woman is
marred/scarred and goes off on a vicious escapade, but since RJ has
destroyed Lanfear's character by tuirning her into "woman scorned hwo
sold her soul for a man" cliche, I wouldn't put it passed him.
So anyway, I thought maybe the Mofear combo-woman would show up with
white/silver hair, sorta like Rita(?), Randall Flagg's lover from the
_Stand_, or the girl turned sorceress in the _Fionvar Tapestry_.
But Cyndane has a rack, silver hair _and_ blue eyes, so that clinches it
that Lanfear is NOT installed in Moiraine's body.
Karl-Johan Noren
> I chimed in later on to ask if "there was a physical resemblence between
> Cyndane and a certain height-challenged Aes Sedai". He said "We don't know
> yet." I think that means yes, which is interesting. If there hadn't been
> one, he could have said no, and he has written the descriptions of Cyndane
> ambiguously enough to prevent any proof either way.
ObVious: or _he_ doesn't know.
But we'll have to check on Moiraine's body build.
> * The Aiel were based on bits of the apache, zulu, bedouin, and arab(?)
> cultures. Nothing starting here, but I don't think we've had this one
> answered as a complete list before. It was fired off really fast, so I
> may have missed some...
The arabs should be equivalent to bedouins, I think. I think
he have put it out earlier too, eg at the East of the Sun.
> * There were some jokes about the sheer mass of the books -- "There will
> be a boxed set when the series is complete... on wheels."
Not the TOW joke?
> * Where did ideas come from?
> o "What if you were tapped on the shoulder and told you had to save
> the world?"
> o What are the sources of myths? "reverse-engineered" legends.
> o The game of "telephone" (he calls it "whisper").
This should tie in with the theme of change of information
that he's mentioned earlier.
> * Lots of minor comments thinly veiled towards the net-jordanites. I got
> the impression he thinks we're a bit obsessive but appreciates it. Some
> of the more interesting ones:
> o "I like the idea of Bela as a Darkfriend."
This is an old one.
> o "Any crazy rumors I can start on the Web are good."
Just like it's the web which's what matters here!
> Other Favored Authors
> * Hu Hart ?
Barry Hughart?
> Historical Tidbits and Background Information
>
> When China Ruled the Seas
[ snip ]
Hmmm... gotta go check out my Chinese history back home.
(!Peeve: Alf Henrikson)
> As noted before, Jordan's wife was not present (she had to leave earlier on
> the tour for unspecified reasons). There was at least one person from Tor (a
> publicist IIRC) and perhaps two, both women. Jordan travels in a stretch
> limo, with what looked like a chase car, but that could be coincidence.
An upgrade from walking around and taking the metro in
Stockholm :-)
--
Karl-Johan Norén (Noren with acute e) -- k-j-...@dsv.su.se
http://www.dsv.su.se/~k-j-nore/
- To believe people are as stupid as one believes is
stupider than one can believe.
Erica Sadun
>In <slrn74v6kr....@elite.res.cmu.edu>,
>mhu...@andrew.cmu.edu (Matthew Hunter) wrote:
>> Cyndane and a certain height-challenged Aes Sedai". He said "We don't know
>> yet." I think that means yes, which is interesting. If there hadn't been
>But we'll have to check on Moiraine's body build.
Why bother?
Moiraine isn't in Cyndane's league where it comes to the OP.
Give it up.
-- Erica
--
===========================ERICA SADUN================================
Grep poop whilst ye may, oh babies of the Spring...
er...@galileo.cudenver.edu.nospam
======================================================================
Bunnythor
>Then again, who's to say that there isn't some young wilder whose
>OP "trick" was a method of using saidar to redistribute body fat
>in interesting ways...
I think the most interesting way to distribute one's body fat would be to shift
it onto the top of one's skull. Then when one walked, it would slowly pulse up
and down like a 50 lb. hairy blancmange.
--Tshen
Qodaxti Institute, 87th stratum
Trent Goulding
wrote:
>On 16 Nov 1998 10:22:41 GMT, Matthew Hunter <mhu...@andrew.cmu.edu> wrote:
>>Evidentally, China was a real behemoth in the middle ages, right on the
>>track to world domination, until they decided they didn't really want to
>>rule the world. The following is a summary from hastily scribbled notes on a
>>subject about which I am relatively ignorant; if I fuck up, it means I can't
>>read my notes.
>
>That, and those pesky Mongols.
<pedant>
'Cept the massive naval expedition that is briefly described in the
body of Matthew's post (snipped here) refers to the armada led by
admiral Zheng He around the 1420's, at the height of the Ming
dynasty's power.
The Ming dynasty came to power ca. 1368, displacing the Yuan, which
was the Mongol dynasty that ruled China mid-1200's to mid 1300's.
The Mongols had tremendous influence on a certain stretch of Chinese
history, no question, but at the particular point we're talking
about, they just weren't really a factor in checking any
expansionist tendencies China might have had.
Explanations I've read for why Chinese forces during the Ming mostly
stayed at home always tend to focus more on China's sense of
cultural superiority, and her institutional reliance on the ideology
that all other cultures, being inferior to the Middle Kingdom, would
naturally look to the Imperial court for direction, and thus didn't
require active conquering. In other words, it just wasn't worth the
effort.
</pedant>
--
Trent Goulding
goul...@student.REMOVE.law.ucla.edu
Bill E. Brooks
On 16 Nov 1998 10:22:41 GMT, mhu...@andrew.cmu.edu (Matthew Hunter)
wrote:
>The first "intuitively obvious" question was from someone else: The old
>standby, "Who killed Asmodean?" He added that there have been clues in (at
>least some, maybe all of) the books published since then. I take this
>statement to mean that Graendal is the killer; she's the only one for whom
>the case could be called "intuitively obvious", as it is mostly built up
>through a process of elimination and a few supporting comments.
>
Although Mesaana is also tough to eliminate. I think all of the clues
were in TFoH and LoC.
>I chimed in later on to ask if "there was a physical resemblence between
>Cyndane and a certain height-challenged Aes Sedai". He said "We don't know
>yet." I think that means yes, which is interesting. If there hadn't been
>one, he could have said no, and he has written the descriptions of Cyndane
>ambiguously enough to prevent any proof either way.
>
He means yes? Put 2 & 2 together here:
> o "Any crazy rumors I can start on the Web are good."
>My last question concerned the glossary -- the bit about "speculation is
>futile." I asked, "Do you really expect that to stop us?" He said of course
>not.
>
The glossary says "may be"; in other words, that quote is virtually
meaningless.
-Bill Brooks
John Dilick
Novak, III) proclaimed:
>On Mon, 16 Nov 1998 19:28:46 GMT, P. Korda <ko...@midway.uchicago.edu> wrote:
>>IIRC, she's described as "slender." Generally, "impressive bosoms" are
>>not coupled with a slender build without silicone assistance.
>
>She's not only slender, she's Cairhienin, and Cairhienins are known
>for their small, slight builds. And while I have known some young
>women with both slender builds and, ah, naturally impressive bosoms,
>they're not usually described simply as slim. They're generally
>described as "Slim'n'stacked."
Best one I heard was "Lookit her, she's smuggling melons!"
Of course, _I'd_ never say such a thing. Just ask Annette. [1]
>Not by me, of course.
>Not in earshot.
>Under normal circumstances.
Wimp.
>But the general premise is correct, here-- I don't see Moiraine having
>that body type.
Nor do I. My mental image of her, while not completely defined, is that of
a diminutive woman of normal build for her height.
[1] Given that she's in BFE, Georgia through Thursday, I can hope this
slips right by her without notice.
--
John Dilick dili...@home.com
If at first you don't succeed, cheat. Cheat until caught, then lie.
Mark Loy
(Bunnythor) wrote:
But where would you ever find a hat to fit?
And forget about ear muffs.
ML
Kate Nepveu
: On 16 Nov 1998 10:22:41 GMT, Matthew Hunter <mhu...@andrew.cmu.edu> wrote:
:> * Lots of minor comments thinly veiled towards the net-jordanites. I got
:> the impression he thinks we're a bit obsessive but appreciates it. Some
:> of the more interesting ones:
:> o "There is an alphanumeric code in the copyright page." He expects
:> us to decode it shortly. Let's get cracking!
: I ran the ISBN through the Sooper Sekrit Government Decoder Machines,
: which promptly spat out: "Uhhh, I think Brain-- but where are we
: going to find rubber pants in our size?"
*snort*
Oh, and wtf is up with the introduction of _Elmira_ into Pinky & the
Brain? That's just deeply wrong. Tell me the episode I saw was a
one-off.
Kate
--
http://www.concentric.net/~knepveu/ - The Paired Reading Page; Reviews
"We must come to grief and regret anyway--and I for one would rather
regret the reality than its phantasm, knowledge than hope, the deed
than the hesitation, true life and not mere sickly potentialities."
--A. S. Byatt, _Possession_
Erica Sadun
:>On 16 Nov 1998 10:22:41 GMT, Matthew Hunter <mhu...@andrew.cmu.edu> wrote:
:>>Evidentally, China was a real behemoth in the middle ages, right on the
:>>track to world domination, until they decided they didn't really want to
:>>rule the world. The following is a summary from hastily scribbled notes on a
:>>subject about which I am relatively ignorant; if I fuck up, it means I can't
:>>read my notes.
:'Cept the massive naval expedition that is briefly described in the
:body of Matthew's post (snipped here) refers to the armada led by
:admiral Zheng He around the 1420's, at the height of the Ming
:dynasty's power.
:Explanations I've read for why Chinese forces during the Ming mostly
:stayed at home always tend to focus more on China's sense of
:cultural superiority, and her institutional reliance on the ideology
:that all other cultures, being inferior to the Middle Kingdom, would
:naturally look to the Imperial court for direction, and thus didn't
:require active conquering. In other words, it just wasn't worth the
:effort.
I was reading _Wealth & Poverty of Nations_ by I don't know who
about 2 or 3 months ago and this was discussed.
In the author's opinion, China's massive naval expedition was not
to seek new knowledge, trade goods, etc, but a propoganda tool that
avoided those interactions which lead to greater scientific thought,
etc and advance industry.
Unlike the "greedy europeans" who were open to new marketplaces,
trade goods, and so forth, the Chinese learned little from their
endevours.
Maggie
tale...
> Yea, verily, on 16 Nov 1998 15:38:36 PST, j...@concentric.net (John S.
> Novak, III) proclaimed:
>
> >On Mon, 16 Nov 1998 19:28:46 GMT, P. Korda <ko...@midway.uchicago.edu> wrote:
<slender, well endowed women>
> Best one I heard was "Lookit her, she's smuggling melons!"
>
> Of course, _I'd_ never say such a thing. Just ask Annette. [1]
<snip all other context>
> [1] Given that she's in BFE, Georgia through Thursday, I can hope this
> slips right by her without notice.
So I guess e-mailing her to ask if you would say this is just
*completely* out of the question? <wicked grin>
Bribery will get you everywhere, darlin'!
--
Maggie UIN 10248195
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/1374/
"Love consists of one soul inhabiting two bodies." --Aristotle
Trent Goulding
Sadun) wrote:
[China during the Ming]
>I was reading _Wealth & Poverty of Nations_ by I don't know who
>about 2 or 3 months ago and this was discussed.
>
>In the author's opinion, China's massive naval expedition was not
>to seek new knowledge, trade goods, etc, but a propoganda tool that
>avoided those interactions which lead to greater scientific thought,
>etc and advance industry.
>
>Unlike the "greedy europeans" who were open to new marketplaces,
>trade goods, and so forth, the Chinese learned little from their
>endevours.
This sounds pretty close to my recollection, as well.
One thing I think it's important to keep in mind, though it seems
obvious enough upon reflection, is that Chinese history/culture is
not monolithic across time. When we speak of "Imperial China",
before anything useful can be said, it's usually necessary to first
pin down approximately which time period or dynasty is being
referenced.
To take the case at hand, the Ming is generally described as being
quite inward-looking, xenophobic, etc., in contrast to, say, the
Tang (ca. 607-918 CE), which, although still convinced of its own
cultural superiority, was far more cosmopolitan, expansionist, and
outward-looking.
--
Trent Goulding
goul...@student.REMOVE.law.ucla.edu
John S. Novak, III
>>She's not only slender, she's Cairhienin, and Cairhienins are known
>>for their small, slight builds. And while I have known some young
>>women with both slender builds and, ah, naturally impressive bosoms,
>>they're not usually described simply as slim. They're generally
>>described as "Slim'n'stacked."
>Best one I heard was "Lookit her, she's smuggling melons!"
I've always had problems with that description, personally.
Shape-wise, maybe, but the motion? No.
>Of course, _I'd_ never say such a thing. Just ask Annette. [1]
Punk.
>[1] Given that she's in BFE, Georgia through Thursday, I can hope this
>slips right by her without notice.
Have you forgotten that you and your (far) better half will be in DC
this weekend? Hmm?
--
John S. Novak, III j...@concentric.net
Pat O'Connell
Think "Billy Bo Bob Brain." Narf!
--
Pat O'Connell
Take nothing but pictures, Leave nothing but footprints,
Kill nothing but vandals...
Karl-Johan Noren
FAQ Dowager Erica L. Sadun <er...@galileo.cudenver.edu> wrote:
> Karl-Johan Noren <k-j-...@dsv.su.se> writes:
> >mhu...@andrew.cmu.edu (Matthew Hunter) wrote:
> >> I chimed in later on to ask if "there was a physical resemblence between
> >> Cyndane and a certain height-challenged Aes Sedai". He said "We don't know
> >> yet." I think that means yes, which is interesting. If there hadn't been
> >ObVious: or _he_ doesn't know.
> >But we'll have to check on Moiraine's body build.
>
> Why bother?
> Moiraine isn't in Cyndane's league where it comes to the OP.
> Give it up.
Dear great^n-aunt Erica, we weren't speculating if Cyndane
was Moiraine, but if Cyndane was Lanfear stuffed into
Moiraine's body.
Now, it seems the theory is dead now, but how would we get
any progress if we didn't do a brute-force check of any
possible interpretation of TWoT?
John Dilick
proclaimed to the teeming masses:
>On 17 Nov 1998 06:10:29 PST, John Dilick <dili...@home.com> wrote:
>
>>Best one I heard was "Lookit her, she's smuggling melons!"
>
>I've always had problems with that description, personally.
>Shape-wise, maybe, but the motion? No.
OK, think melon-shaped jello molds.
>>Of course, _I'd_ never say such a thing. Just ask Annette. [1]
>
>Punk.
>
>>[1] Given that she's in BFE, Georgia through Thursday, I can hope this
>>slips right by her without notice.
>
>Have you forgotten that you and your (far) better half will be in DC
>this weekend? Hmm?
*whistles innocently*
I figure if I'm not in deep shit by Friday evening, the weekend just isn't
worth experiencing. My (admittedly far) better half seems to enjoy giving
me exasperated looks, so I feel obligated to provide means, motive and
opportunity. Of this, are great relationships born. I think.
If we don't make it to DC, you know I'm A) wrong, and B) dead.
Amy Gray
>On 17 Nov 1998 16:00:27 PST, j...@concentric.net (John S. Novak, III)
>proclaimed to the teeming masses:
>
>>On 17 Nov 1998 06:10:29 PST, John Dilick <dili...@home.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Best one I heard was "Lookit her, she's smuggling melons!"
>>
>>I've always had problems with that description, personally.
>>Shape-wise, maybe, but the motion? No.
>
>OK, think melon-shaped jello molds.
*sniff* Men.
--
Amy Gray
UIN: 21382476
John Dilick
proclaimed to the teeming masses:
>John Dilick wrote in message <365330b1.79960930@news>...
>
>>OK, think melon-shaped jello molds.
>
>*sniff* Men.
There's a joke in here involving 'pungent man-scent', but I'm too much of a
90's kinda guy to go for it.
Well, that and the fact that it would be _far_ too easy. I do have my
standards, y'know.
Amy Gray
>On 18 Nov 1998 04:17:30 GMT, "Amy Gray" <mant...@worldnet.att.net>
>proclaimed to the teeming masses:
>
>>John Dilick wrote in message <365330b1.79960930@news>...
>>
>>>OK, think melon-shaped jello molds.
>>
>>*sniff* Men.
>
>There's a joke in here involving 'pungent man-scent', but I'm too much
of a
>90's kinda guy to go for it.
>
>Well, that and the fact that it would be _far_ too easy. I do have my
>standards, y'know.
Feh. Can't even get a good comeback. What a day this is turning out to
be.
Bill E. Brooks
wrote:
>Oh, and wtf is up with the introduction of _Elmira_ into Pinky & the
>Brain? That's just deeply wrong. Tell me the episode I saw was a
>one-off.
>
A friend of mine and I were just recently discussing that by email.
Apparently, they are trying to kiddyize the show. It wasn't enough
that execs ruined one show with Elmyra; they had to go and ruin
another one. How is it that such idiots so often are put in charge of
making these decisions? The next thing you know, they'll be
cancelling the show due to low ratings.
-Bill Brooks
Brian D. Ritchie
>[1] Given that she's in BFE, Georgia through Thursday, I can hope this
I fail to see how BFE narrows it down much when talking about Georgia.
All it does is exclude parts of Atlanta.
--
Brian Ritchie "A billion here, a billion there - sooner or later
br...@prism.gatech.edu it adds up to real money." -- Everett Dirksen
Matthew Hunter
On 17 Nov 1998 00:24:23 GMT, in rec.arts.sf.written.robert-jordan,
Erica Sadun <er...@galileo.cudenver.edu> wrote:
>In article <wkg1bip...@dsv.su.se> Karl-Johan Noren <k-j-...@dsv.su.se> writes:
>>In <slrn74v6kr....@elite.res.cmu.edu>,
>>mhu...@andrew.cmu.edu (Matthew Hunter) wrote:
>>> I chimed in later on to ask if "there was a physical resemblence between
>>> Cyndane and a certain height-challenged Aes Sedai". He said "We don't know
>>> yet." I think that means yes, which is interesting. If there hadn't been
>>ObVious: or _he_ doesn't know.
>>But we'll have to check on Moiraine's body build.
>Why bother?
>Moiraine isn't in Cyndane's league where it comes to the OP.
>Give it up.
The loony theory goes Cyndane is Lanfear in Moiraine's body.
--
Matthew Hunter (mhu...@andrew.cmu.edu)
Matthew Hunter
Hawk <mer...@value.net.DELETEDELETEDELETE> wrote:
>Matthew Hunter <mhu...@andrew.cmu.edu>,
><slrn74v6kr....@elite.res.cmu.edu>, shouted:
>>Some stores simply won't carry fantasy, so all the books have been issued
>>without cover art to expand the market. This came up in response to aCoS
>>paperback being artless. Why we haven't seen any of these others without
>>art, I don't know.
>You have. It's the CoS paperback that was published with a romance book
>style cover. An icon of a crown on the cover is not art (in this
>context).
I've seen that one, yes, but there are supposedly others.
--
Matthew Hunter (mhu...@andrew.cmu.edu)
Matthew Hunter
On 16 Nov 1998 15:32:15 PST, in rec.arts.sf.written.robert-jordan,
John S. Novak, III <j...@concentric.net> wrote:
>On 16 Nov 1998 10:22:41 GMT, Matthew Hunter <mhu...@andrew.cmu.edu> wrote:
>>I chimed in later on to ask if "there was a physical resemblence between
>>Cyndane and a certain height-challenged Aes Sedai". He said "We don't know
>>yet." I think that means yes, which is interesting.
>
>If you mean Moiraine... I never, in my wildest dreams, pictured
>Moiraine as having an "impressive bosom." Much less silver hair.
Count that as a loony idea based on the height thing. I expected it to
get shot down if it was wrong, since it seems so inconsequential a
thing.
>> * Lots of minor comments thinly veiled towards the net-jordanites. I got
>> the impression he thinks we're a bit obsessive but appreciates it. Some
>> of the more interesting ones:
>> o "There is an alphanumeric code in the copyright page." He expects
>> us to decode it shortly. Let's get cracking!
>I ran the ISBN through the Sooper Sekrit Government Decoder Machines,
>which promptly spat out: "Uhhh, I think Brain-- but where are we
>going to find rubber pants in our size?"
hehehehe.
>>They are apparently considering a later reissue of the entire series with
>>different covers, perhaps by Whelan, once it is complete.
>Can I just buy the damned covers?
I can see it now. "In other news, bookstores across the country have
been reporting increasing instances of dust-cover theft from the recent
republication of Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series..."
--
Matthew Hunter (mhu...@andrew.cmu.edu)
Katie Fergason
Personally, I've had it out for stupid TV execs since they cancelled the
Tick. What were they thinking?!!!
T Nielsen Hayden
> November 14th, Path of Dagger Signing, Louisville
> * Path of Daggers was finished August 25th, and published in less than 60
> days.
I'm glad he put that on the record. The Production Department did a great
job.
> * The Museum Replicas weapons are good. The design work (some of it at
> least) was done by the same person who did the maps, for a somewhat
> unusual price. I don't quite recall their name, and can't decipher my
> handwriting now.
The interior art was done by Thomas Canty, John M. Ford, Matthew C. Nielsen,
and Ellisa Mitchell. Pick whichever one best matches your scribble.
> * Lots of minor comments thinly veiled towards the net-jordanites. I got
> the impression he thinks we're a bit obsessive but appreciates it. Some
> of the more interesting ones:
> o "I like the idea of Bela as a Darkfriend."
> o "There is an alphanumeric code in the copyright page." He expects
> us to decode it shortly. Let's get cracking!
I have informed our head of production that Jordan has spilled the beans, and
you guys are now on to us.
>Other Favored Authors
>
>I missed quite a few of these while I tried to scribble it all down.
>
> * CS Friedman
> * Hu Hart ?
My guess is that that's Barry Hughart, author of the quite wonderful =Bridge
of Birds=.
...
Thanks for the report!
Teresa Nielsen Hayden
for Tor Books
Kate Nepveu
: As Matthew Hunter said:
:> * The Museum Replicas weapons are good. The design work (some of it at
:> least) was done by the same person who did the maps, for a somewhat
:> unusual price. I don't quite recall their name, and can't decipher my
:> handwriting now.
: The interior art was done by Thomas Canty, John M. Ford, Matthew C. Nielsen,
: and Ellisa Mitchell. Pick whichever one best matches your scribble.
Is that John M. Ford as in _Growing Up Weightless_ John M. Ford? We've
been curious about this for a while.
Kate
--
http://www.concentric.net/~knepveu/ - The Paired Reading Page; Reviews
"Most days it's just stumbling around in the dark with the rest of
creation, smashing into things and wondering why it hurts."
--Lois McMaster Bujold, _Shards of Honor_
Matthew Hunter
>
>> I chimed in later on to ask if "there was a physical resemblence between
>> Cyndane and a certain height-challenged Aes Sedai". He said "We don't know
>> one, he could have said no, and he has written the descriptions of Cyndane
>> ambiguously enough to prevent any proof either way.
>
I think if he doesn't know, it would have been a read and find out, or
*something*; I mean, if he knows the characters are NOT exactly alike,
he could say that much...
>> * There were some jokes about the sheer mass of the books -- "There will
>> be a boxed set when the series is complete... on wheels."
>Not the TOW joke?
Remind me... I don't know what you're referring to offhand.
>> o "Any crazy rumors I can start on the Web are good."
>Just like it's the web which's what matters here!
He's an Author, not a Techie. He can be a little off. ;)
>> Other Favored Authors
>> * Hu Hart ?
>Barry Hughart?
Most likely...
--
Matthew Hunter (mhu...@andrew.cmu.edu)
Karl-Johan Noren
mhu...@andrew.cmu.edu (Matthew Hunter) wrote:
> Karl-Johan Noren <k-j-...@dsv.su.se> wrote:
> >mhu...@andrew.cmu.edu (Matthew Hunter) wrote:
> >> I chimed in later on to ask if "there was a physical resemblence between
> >> Cyndane and a certain height-challenged Aes Sedai". He said "We don't know
> >> yet." I think that means yes, which is interesting.
> >ObVious: or _he_ doesn't know.
>
> I think if he doesn't know, it would have been a read and find out, or
> *something*; I mean, if he knows the characters are NOT exactly alike,
> he could say that much...
Well, I _was_ joking.
> >> * There were some jokes about the sheer mass of the books --
> >> "There will be a boxed set when the series is complete... on
> >> wheels."
> >Not the TOW joke?
>
> Remind me... I don't know what you're referring to offhand.
<http://www.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?AN=309462644>
Aseem Garg
cyndane is pretty obviously lanfear. read the physical description, the
description of how much power she can hold, and at how she presents yourself
and I think it becomes pretty obvious that lanfear=cyndane
also, the name "last chance" has signifigance. the dark one is giving
lanfear one last chance not to screw up, that is why he brought her back.
Matthew Hunter
>In <slrn75nglb....@elite.res.cmu.edu>,
>mhu...@andrew.cmu.edu (Matthew Hunter) wrote:
>> >> * There were some jokes about the sheer mass of the books --
>> >> "There will be a boxed set when the series is complete... on
>> >> wheels."
>> >Not the TOW joke?
>> Remind me... I don't know what you're referring to offhand.
><http://www.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?AN=309462644>
No, not that one.
This came up when someone mentioned what a hard time they were having
carrying all the books around, or something like that.
--
Matthew Hunter (mhu...@andrew.cmu.edu)
Matthew Hunter
On Wed, 25 Nov 1998 19:25:36 -0600, in rec.arts.sf.written.robert-jordan,
Aseem Garg <aseem....@tc.umn.edu> wrote:
>cyndane is pretty obviously lanfear. read the physical description, the
>description of how much power she can hold, and at how she presents yourself
>and I think it becomes pretty obvious that lanfear=cyndane
Please quote when you respond to someone, as I did above. Otherwise no
one knows exactly who you are responding to.
I believe we are still in spoiler protection, too.
While Cyndane IS pretty obviously Lanfear, it's Lanfear in a different
body (Graendal doesn't recognize her). Based on her height, and the
circumstances of her disappearance, and the Slayer case, there is
some chance that that body is Moiraine's.
--
Matthew Hunter (mhu...@andrew.cmu.edu)
Rebel Yell
If Cydane is Lanfear in Moiraine's body, could Moiraine be out there
somewhere in Lanfear's body. That would really get Rand's paranoia
going.
Selina
>
> Matthew Hunter wrote:
> > Aseem Garg <aseem....@tc.umn.edu> wrote:
> > While Cyndane IS pretty obviously Lanfear, it's Lanfear in a different
> > body (Graendal doesn't recognize her). Based on her height, and the
> > circumstances of her disappearance, and the Slayer case, there is
> > some chance that that body is Moiraine's.
> ><sorry I have to snip what 'Rebel Yell' wrote, this isn't a reply to
him>
Cyndane's body is Moiraine's????!!!!!! Since when had Moiraine had
silver hair and blue eyes? Why would Cyndane disguise herself to go to
Graendal when Moiraine means nothing to Graendal (I don't think)? Even
if she did, you would think the vain Lanfear would choose something that
went better with her dress (G observes it doesn't and she has to wear
Moridin's livery)??
Please, please, think before opening your mouth/reaching for the
keyboard.
T Nielsen Hayden
>T Nielsen Hayden <t...@panix.com> wrote:
>: As Matthew Hunter said:
>
>:> * The Museum Replicas weapons are good. The design work (some of it at
>:> least) was done by the same person who did the maps, for a somewhat
>:> unusual price. I don't quite recall their name, and can't decipher my
>:> handwriting now.
>
>: The interior art was done by Thomas Canty, John M. Ford, Matthew C. Nielsen,
>: and Ellisa Mitchell. Pick whichever one best matches your scribble.
>
>Is that John M. Ford as in _Growing Up Weightless_ John M. Ford? We've
>been curious about this for a while.
It is indeed. He drew a number of maps for Tor books, and he's an old friend
of Robert Jordan and his wife.
Kate Nepveu
: <kne...@concentric.net> writes:
:>Is that John M. Ford as in _Growing Up Weightless_ John M. Ford? We've
:>been curious about this for a while.
: It is indeed. He drew a number of maps for Tor books, and he's an old friend
: of Robert Jordan and his wife.
Multi-talented indeed.
<plaintive>
Any word on _Aspects_?
</plaintive>
Kate
--
http://www.concentric.net/~knepveu/ - The Paired Reading Page; Reviews
"There is something fascinating about Usenet. One gets such wholesale
returns of conjecture out of such a trifling investment of fact."
--with apologies to Mark Twain
T Nielsen Hayden
>T Nielsen Hayden <t...@panix.com> wrote:
>: In <73es4v$n...@journal.concentric.net> Kate Nepveu
>: <kne...@concentric.net> writes:
>:>Is that John M. Ford as in _Growing Up Weightless_ John M. Ford? We've
>:>been curious about this for a while.
>
>: It is indeed. He drew a number of maps for Tor books, and he's an old friend
>: of Robert Jordan and his wife.
>
>Multi-talented indeed.
>
><plaintive>
>Any word on _Aspects_?
></plaintive>
This is unofficial. I'm not John M. Ford's editor; I'm just a friend who's
gotten to see chunks of =Aspects= as he's finished them.
It's coming slowly. It's definitely progressing. It's very intense. There
are steam locomotives, duels to the death with swords, complex and realistic
parliamentary maneuvers, and scads of great characters. Magic works. The
language is brilliant, as is the invention. And he's still the best there is
at hand-level detail.
As usual, it's not quite like anything he's written before. If I had to
compare it to a previous book I'd probably pick =The Dragon Waiting=, though
that will only give you a rough idea.
It'll be a while yet before he finishes writing it.
Teresa Nielsen Hayden
t...@panix.com
Kate Nepveu
: <kne...@concentric.net> writes:
:><plaintive>
:>Any word on _Aspects_?
:></plaintive>
: This is unofficial. I'm not John M. Ford's editor; I'm just a friend who's
: gotten to see chunks of =Aspects= as he's finished them.
Okay...
: It's coming slowly. It's definitely progressing. It's very intense. There
: are steam locomotives, duels to the death with swords, complex and realistic
: parliamentary maneuvers, and scads of great characters. Magic works. The
: language is brilliant, as is the invention. And he's still the best there is
: at hand-level detail.
Wonderful...
(Anyone else getting vague _Phoenix Guards_-like impressions, but without
the giggling...?)
: As usual, it's not quite like anything he's written before. If I had to
: compare it to a previous book I'd probably pick =The Dragon Waiting=, though
: that will only give you a rough idea.
Potentially terrific...
: It'll be a while yet before he finishes writing it.
And that *thud* you heard was the sound of the other shoe dropping.
*sigh* Thank you for the information.
T Nielsen Hayden
>T Nielsen Hayden <t...@panix.com> wrote:
>: In <73t38l$q...@journal.concentric.net> Kate Nepveu
>: <kne...@concentric.net> writes:
>
>:><plaintive>
>:>Any word on _Aspects_?
>:></plaintive>
>
>: This is unofficial. I'm not John M. Ford's editor; I'm just a friend who's
>: gotten to see chunks of =Aspects= as he's finished them.
>
>Okay...
>
>: It's coming slowly. It's definitely progressing. It's very intense. There
>: are steam locomotives, duels to the death with swords, complex and realistic
>: parliamentary maneuvers, and scads of great characters. Magic works. The
>: language is brilliant, as is the invention. And he's still the best there is
>: at hand-level detail.
>
>Wonderful...
>
>(Anyone else getting vague _Phoenix Guards_-like impressions, but without
>the giggling...?)
It's a sterner grade of swash.
>: As usual, it's not quite like anything he's written before. If I had to
>: compare it to a previous book I'd probably pick =The Dragon Waiting=, though
>: that will only give you a rough idea.
>
>Potentially terrific...
>
>: It'll be a while yet before he finishes writing it.
>
>And that *thud* you heard was the sound of the other shoe dropping.
Waiting for =Aspects= is a way of life.
>*sigh* Thank you for the information.
Happy to oblige.
Teresa Nielsen Hayden
t...@panix.com
Kate Nepveu
[Ford's next novel, _Aspects_]
:>(Anyone else getting vague _Phoenix Guards_-like impressions, but without
:>the giggling...?)
: It's a sterner grade of swash.
More _Five Hundred Years After_, then?
:>: It'll be a while yet before he finishes writing it.
:>And that *thud* you heard was the sound of the other shoe dropping.
: Waiting for =Aspects= is a way of life.
Almost, but not quite, bucker-sticker worthy... =>