Phila. signing
MELINDA YIN
about Randland life that has been bugging me for a while - do Aes Sedai
ever have children, and why/why not?
I was impressed with Jordan's casual reply, as if this were common
knowledge - that all Aes Sedai, and for that matter, most women have
knowledge of a special herb that serves as an incredibly efficient
contraceptive. This herb is just general womens' lore, passed to women by
Wisdoms and such.
He followed up with two other points : 1)Aes Sedai are personally
discouraged from having children because they know they will outlive them
and 2)its clearly not a popular idea because the White Ajah had suggested
having children with men who can channel in order to undo "culling", but
this suggestion was not particularly well received.
Oh, and he made some comments about how warder of the BA might sometimes
meet with "accidents" so the BA can remain secret. Alternatively, BA might
intentionally bond darkfriends.
EmilieTN
>meet with "accidents" so the BA can remain secret.
Note that Verin's warder, Tomas, died. She didn't seem to be distraught like
she should be.
Emilie L.
Neil Anderson
EmilieTN wrote:
When/where/how did Tomas die? Is this something that RJ said at the Philly
signing or something that you recall from the books. I have to beg to differ if
it is the latter. When Verin and Alanna were in the TR it was one of ALANNA's
Warders that got it in the neck.
Neil Anderson
Kate Nepveu
: I was impressed with Jordan's casual reply, as if this were common
: knowledge - that all Aes Sedai, and for that matter, most women have
: knowledge of a special herb that serves as an incredibly efficient
: contraceptive. This herb is just general womens' lore, passed to women by
: Wisdoms and such.
Ah, the ever-popular "mysterious herb that's better than the Pill" fantasy
element.
Presumably this is more knowledge that has been lost over the Ages.
Kate
--
http://www.concentric.net/~knepveu/ - The Paired Reading Page; Reviews
"We must come to grief and regret anyway--and I for one would rather
regret the reality than its phantasm, knowledge than hope, the deed
than the hesitation, true life and not mere sickly potentialities."
--A. S. Byatt, _Possession_
Richard M. Boye'
>
> MELINDA YIN <my...@mail.med.upenn.edu> wrote:
>
> : I was impressed with Jordan's casual reply, as if this were common
> : knowledge - that all Aes Sedai, and for that matter, most women have
> : knowledge of a special herb that serves as an incredibly efficient
> : contraceptive. This herb is just general womens' lore, passed to women by
> : Wisdoms and such.
>
> Ah, the ever-popular "mysterious herb that's better than the Pill" fantasy
> element.
> Presumably this is more knowledge that has been lost over the Ages.
Actually, oral contraceptives were not completely unknown in the ancient
world.
The Chinese managed to make the Pill in a way not so very different from
the way the modern Pill is made. They basically boil the hell out of
urine collected from women, gather up the crystalized remnants, cut it
with a neutral paste, rolled it, diced it into little pills and let it
dry. Voila, contraceptive pill. The active ingredient is still the same
hormone, found in the urine.
Now, OTOH, the ancient Egyptian women _somehow_ managed to discover that
dried crocodile feces had spermicidal _and_ contraceptive qualities. I
don't wanna know how "Amneris X" first made the corrolation between
eating croc shit and not getting pregant, though.
In any event, neither of those were herbal in nature though.
--
Richard M. Boye' * wa...@webspan.net
* http://www.webspan.net/~waldo/ * ICQ:9021244
"In the circus of life, sometimes if you taunt the bearded
lady long enough, she'll just throw prizes at you."
Kate Nepveu
:> : I was impressed with Jordan's casual reply, as if this were common
:> : knowledge - that all Aes Sedai, and for that matter, most women have
:> : knowledge of a special herb that serves as an incredibly efficient
:> : contraceptive. This herb is just general womens' lore, passed to women by
:> : Wisdoms and such.
:> Ah, the ever-popular "mysterious herb that's better than the Pill" fantasy
:> element.
:> Presumably this is more knowledge that has been lost over the Ages.
: Actually, oral contraceptives were not completely unknown in the ancient
: world.
Oh sure, and herbal contraceptives are touted by some, but I don't think
that anyone claims they're "incredibly efficient." I doubt Rand-land's
version has side effects either.
Richard M. Boye'
> :> Ah, the ever-popular "mysterious herb that's better than the Pill" fantasy
> :> element.
> :> Presumably this is more knowledge that has been lost over the Ages.
>
> : Actually, oral contraceptives were not completely unknown in the ancient
> : world.
>
> Oh sure, and herbal contraceptives are touted by some, but I don't think
> that anyone claims they're "incredibly efficient." I doubt Rand-land's
> version has side effects either.
I can think of one especially prevelant side-affect.
Post nasal drip.
'Sniff.
Alinet2
>MELINDA YIN <my...@mail.med.upenn.edu> wrote:
>
>: I was impressed with Jordan's casual reply, as if this were common
>: knowledge - that all Aes Sedai, and for that matter, most women have
>: knowledge of a special herb that serves as an incredibly efficient
>: contraceptive. This herb is just general womens' lore, passed to women by
>: Wisdoms and such.
>
>Ah, the ever-popular "mysterious herb that's better than the Pill" fantasy
>element.
>
>Presumably this is more knowledge that has been lost over the Ages.
>
>Kate
And maybe that explains why there aren't any foals. The AS feed the magic herb
to their mares.
Aha!
Ravinomaha
conception. Unfortunately for us, the herb died with the tribes it belonged to
=(
Beware the fury of a patient man.
John Dryden.
Mark Erikson
Richard M. Boye' wrote in message <36547E...@webspan.net>...<snip>
>Now, OTOH, the ancient Egyptian women _somehow_ managed to discover that
>dried crocodile feces had spermicidal _and_ contraceptive qualities. I
>don't wanna know how "Amneris X" first made the corrolation between
>eating croc shit and not getting pregant, though.
Are you sure they had to _eat_ it?
-Mark Erikson
Philip Alan Thomann
(with no little embaressment)
....ahem... As anyone noticed the randland gelding to stalion ratio?
And about that herb, maybe its the legendary AOL birth control mentioned in the
guide that made their entire decadent, oblivion deserving society possible.
A geneticaly engineered oral contaceptive. And now that I think of it the romans
were supposed to have some oral medicine that could cause abortions.
--
Philip Thomann
shifty
Philip Alan Thomann wrote in message <73adpp$c...@jec326.rcs.rpi.edu>...
It was actually the Greeks. They harvested it from some small island(s) and
sold it to the wealthy (romans, ptolomeys, etc..) Unfortunately, it was
harvested to extinction before Christ, IIRC. Makes one wonder what lurks in
the rainforest, eh?
shifty
EmilieTN
>were supposed to have some oral medicine that could cause abortions.
>--
Many cultures have had such medications, from (herb) pennyroyal to mercury.
Unfortunately, these abortifacients had side effects, the worst being death of
the woman. Even today women have miscarried from drinking pennyroyal tea (now
used as some sort of herbal relaxation tea available in health stores). One
woman died recently trying to perform her own abortion by drinking pennyroyal
tea.
Anyway, modern birth control methods are much better and safer, abortion is
safe, so is carrying to term.
What I am really trying to get at here is that pre-industrial women's health
sucked. To have to envision a pre-industrial society where everything is just
as good as we have it--or even better--is the realm of fantasy (which is
probably why the genre is called fantasy).
Emilie L.
Philip Alan Thomann
Yeah, you're right. In fact, the only fantasy author I can think of that
pays more than lip service to plauges and blights is...Eddings
--
Philip Thomann
Amy Gray
Philip Alan Thomann wrote in message <73bveo$c...@jec324.rcs.rpi.edu>...
>
>In article <19981123100221...@ng61.aol.com>,
emil...@aol.com (EmilieTN) writes:[
[snip]
>Yeah, you're right. In fact, the only fantasy author I can think of
that
>pays more than lip service to plauges and blights is...Eddings
That's probably because Eddings is a plague and a blight himself. :P
--
Amy Gray
UIN: 21382476
Mike Kozlowski
Philip Alan Thomann <tho...@jec324.rcs.rpi.edu> wrote:
>
>Yeah, you're right. In fact, the only fantasy author I can think of that
>pays more than lip service to plauges and blights is...Eddings
The plague scene in the Mallorean was, to my mind, the best thing Eddings
has written.
McCaffrey's also done the plague bit in _Moreta_.
--
Michael Kozlowski m...@cs.wisc.edu
Recommended SF (Updated 10/9): http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~mlk/sfbooks.html
Richard M. Boye'
>
> In article <73bveo$c...@jec324.rcs.rpi.edu>,
> Philip Alan Thomann <tho...@jec324.rcs.rpi.edu> wrote:
> >
> >Yeah, you're right. In fact, the only fantasy author I can think of that
> >pays more than lip service to plauges and blights is...Eddings
>
> The plague scene in the Mallorean was, to my mind, the best thing Eddings
> has written.
>
> McCaffrey's also done the plague bit in _Moreta_.
Rawn, in the first Sunrunners Trilogy, unleashes a plague that pretty
much kills every third character.
But then again, as Magnus once said, Rawn has this hobby of creating
intricate geneaologies and heirachies and then setting about to destroy
them.
--
Richard M. Boye'
>
> Richard M. Boye' wrote in message <365A07...@webspan.net>...
> >Mike Kozlowski wrote:
>
> >Rawn, in the first Sunrunners Trilogy, unleashes a plague that pretty
> >much kills every third character.
> >
> >But then again, as Magnus once said, Rawn has this hobby of creating
> >intricate geneaologies and heirachies and then setting about to destroy
> >them.
>
> We understand that she's willing to kill characters.
> We understand that she's willing to kill _important_ characters on the
> Hero's side, and even former Heroes on occasion.
>
> But it's okay to win a largely political struggle without a bloodbath once
> in a while.
Her genocidal tendencies were rather subdued in _The Golden Key_,
though. I guess because of the collaborative nature of the work.
I'm still trying to deduce which woman wrote which section. I think I've
got Rawn's section pegged because of the use of the word "broadsheet."
And Kate Eliot's got me stumped because I liked this book and the rest
of her stuff is horrid.
Kenneth G. Cavness
[snip]
> And Kate Eliot's got me stumped because I liked this book and the rest
> of her stuff is horrid.
cf. Raymond E. Feist and Janny Wurts.
--
Kenneth G. Cavness
http://conan.proxicom.com/~kcavness/
Richard M. Boye'
>
> In article <365A2E...@webspan.net>, wa...@webspan.net says...
> [snip]
>
>
> > And Kate Eliot's got me stumped because I liked this book and the rest
> > of her stuff is horrid.
>
> cf. Raymond E. Feist and Janny Wurts.
Good point. Collaboration can work wonders to temper an author's worst
excesses. OTOH, sometimes the pair comes up with a whole new set of
excesses, e.g. Weiss & Hickman.
Oh Kenn, if you liked the _Empire_ trilogy, try _Ladylord_ by Sasha
Miller. Superficially similar premises, but _Ladylord_ is just
so...lush.
Dave Rothgery
>Rawn, in the first Sunrunners Trilogy, unleashes a plague that pretty
>much kills every third character.
>
>But then again, as Magnus once said, Rawn has this hobby of creating
>intricate geneaologies and heirachies and then setting about to destroy
>them.
And I wish she'd stop doing it.
We understand that she's willing to kill characters.
We understand that she's willing to kill _important_ characters on the
Hero's side, and even former Heroes on occasion.
But it's okay to win a largely political struggle without a bloodbath once
in a while.
--
Dave Rothgery WPI CS 1998
dave...@altavista.net http://www.wpi.edu/~daveroth/
Programmer for hire, no reasonable offer refused
Dave Rothgery
Richard M. Boye' wrote in message <365A2E...@webspan.net>...
>> >But then again, as Magnus once said, Rawn has this hobby of creating
>> >intricate geneaologies and heirachies and then setting about to destroy
>> >them.
>>
>> And I wish she'd stop doing it.
>> We understand that she's willing to kill characters.
>> We understand that she's willing to kill _important_ characters on the
>> Hero's side, and even former Heroes on occasion.
>>
>> But it's okay to win a largely political struggle without a bloodbath
once
>> in a while.
>
>Her genocidal tendencies were rather subdued in _The Golden Key_,
>though. I guess because of the collaborative nature of the work.
Probably.
I'm hoping she'll give them free reign in The Diviner, rather than in
Captal's Tower, if she has to kill off a lot of people in every other book
she writes.
>I'm still trying to deduce which woman wrote which section. I think I've
>got Rawn's section pegged because of the use of the word "broadsheet."
Having never read anything else by Roberson or Elliot, I just assumed that
the first section was Rawn's. It just seemed more like the rest of her
stuff to me.
Dennis Higbee
: In article <73bveo$c...@jec324.rcs.rpi.edu>,
: Philip Alan Thomann <tho...@jec324.rcs.rpi.edu> wrote:
: >
: >Yeah, you're right. In fact, the only fantasy author I can think of that
: >pays more than lip service to plauges and blights is...Eddings
: The plague scene in the Mallorean was, to my mind, the best thing Eddings
: has written.
While the actual scene itself is an excellent piece of writing,
its place in the plot may qualifiy it for "cheesiest plot
device in an epic fantasy."
Minor spoilers for The Mallorean.
Halfway through _Demon Lord of Karanda_, Polgara says Mal Zeth
will lose at least a fifth of its population. At the beginning
of the next book, _Sorceress of Darshiva,_ the plague is over
and civil order is restored in Mal Zeth to the point where
the Emperor feels free to run off chasing Garion and Co.
<rant>
It's a freakin' plague, not an outbreak of late summer showers.
Not to mention that it is almost ridiculously contagious and
incredibly virulent. And yet its over in a couple of months,
affects only the one city (even though the carrier caught it
somewhere else), and doesn't impact commerce in any way at
all in a book where commerce is a major part of the plot.
One would think Eddings could at least try to come up with
a better way of keeping Zakath in Mal Zeth for two months
than killing off a quarter of the city and saying "Plague's
over; you can restart the plot now."
</rant>
: McCaffrey's also done the plague bit in _Moreta_.
Bleah. I hated that book when I read it.
--
Dennis Higbee | "Ain't it funny that they all fire the
bn...@li.net | pistol at the wrong end of the race."
http://www.li.net/~bnook/ | -P. Townshend
Emma Pease
>Mike Kozlowski (mkoz...@guy.ssc.wisc.edu) wrote:
>: In article <73bveo$c...@jec324.rcs.rpi.edu>,
>: Philip Alan Thomann <tho...@jec324.rcs.rpi.edu> wrote:
>: >
>: >Yeah, you're right. In fact, the only fantasy author I can think of that
>: >pays more than lip service to plauges and blights is...Eddings
>: The plague scene in the Mallorean was, to my mind, the best thing Eddings
>: has written.
>: McCaffrey's also done the plague bit in _Moreta_.
>Bleah. I hated that book when I read it.
Damiano's Lute by MacAvoy has the Plague.
Emma
ObJordan: Why haven't we seen more disease in WoT? Conditions are
ripe for various diseases (overcrowding in the cities, people in a
generally weakened condition due to short rations, breakdown in civic
authority [e.g., the groups handling garbage cleanup and water
supply]).
--
\----
|\* | Emma Pease Net Spinster
|_\/ em...@csli.stanford.edu Die Luft der Freiheit weht
Kenneth G. Cavness
> Kenneth G. Cavness wrote:
> >
> > In article <365A2E...@webspan.net>, wa...@webspan.net says...
> > [snip]
> >
> >
> > > And Kate Eliot's got me stumped because I liked this book and the rest
> > > of her stuff is horrid.
> >
> > cf. Raymond E. Feist and Janny Wurts.
>
> Good point. Collaboration can work wonders to temper an author's worst
> excesses. OTOH, sometimes the pair comes up with a whole new set of
> excesses, e.g. Weiss & Hickman.
I'm probably going to lose Pedantry Points here, but I really liked
the _Darksword_ trilogy, for its sheer entertainment value.
> Oh Kenn, if you liked the _Empire_ trilogy, try _Ladylord_ by Sasha
> Miller. Superficially similar premises, but _Ladylord_ is just
> so...lush.
Will do.
Still haven't completely finished _Mistress of the Empire_, as I left my
book at Maggie's and though she mailed it back to me priority mail, I
haven't opened it yet.
--
Kenneth G. Cavness
http://conan.proxicom.com/~kcavness/
"There's no need to impose the death penalty on stupidity. Just take all
the warning labels off of everything, and let the problem take care of
itself." -- Ryan Klippenstein, rasfwr-j