Virginia Signing
John S. Novak, III
Version 1.01.
Included spoiler warning, and a few comments at the end.
There was a signing at a local Borders very close to my apartment.
Kate, myself, and the Dilicks attended. The signing began at 1:00 PM.
We showed up separately between 11:00 and 11:30 AM to find ourselves
close to the front of the line. Such paranoia was justified, as the
line grew very swiftly and to great length.
As the time approached, the cafe area was cleared and chairs set up
auditorium style so that those of us who had been waiting were able to
sit down and enjoy. This was cool. Those of us in the cafe area
(andmaybe others) were also given a complimentary cup of spiced
cider-- to bring to mind the idea of having a mug mulled wine in front
of us. This was cool. There was also an amazing-looking layered
sheet cake with a truly impressive Wheel of Time design drawn on the
top. I never got the full story on where it came from-- if Tor
arranged it, or if a fan owned a bakery or what. It was divied up
into small pieces and given to the fans as we went through line.
Jordan began with a reading, which was fairly short. He read the
first few pages from chapter one of tPoD. I think I'm happier
narrating them in my own internal voice. He then commenced with about
an hour and a half of rapid signings. I asked politely if I could
stand off to the side and record the answers to any questions that he
gave. He and the Borders staff were very gracious. They seemed to
expect it, somehow... I will make one comment about Mr. Jordan: he
seems like a very nice man. He was obviously tired (he commented at
one point that he had hit some 27 cities in 32 days) but was cheerful,
engaging, willing to chat and banter and seemed generally pleased to
be there.
I did my best not to be completely underfoot, getting out of the
way of photographs, keeping relatively silent while people were
chatting to him and asking him questions. On a personal and weird
note, a lot of people seemed to recognize me, too. (Of those, I
recognized only Amy and her man.) This is unsettling and weird. And
I am not nearly as approachable as I may have seemed to be-- but I
would have felt like a heel for bitchslapping people who stood behind
me trying to talk to me or at me or near me as I was busy listening
and jotting and dodging out of photographs, while Jordan was being
so nice about letting me hang out there.
Here's what I learned:
(Bear in mind that while there were stretches while I wasn't writing
anything, when I WAS writing, I had to write fast. I hope I didn't
mistranscribe anything.)
Balefire: I'm right. (This was my question) What this means is, if
someone is Balefire, the Dark One can't reincarnate them. But they
CAN be spun back out into the wheel as normal. Balefire is NOT the
eternal death of the soul. He also made a comment to the effect that
even in the absence of balefire, there may be circumstances where the
Dark One cannot bring someone back. There was a long line, so I
didn't press.
The Bowl: Someone asked him whether, if men had helped the Aes Sedai
and Windfinders and Kin channel through the Bowl, the One Power would
still have been screwed up. His implicit assumption was that the Bowl
screwed things up. I expected this to be a sheer RAFO. I was
surprised. He went into a relatively detailed explanation to the
effect that the Bowl was stressed far, far beyond its original design
parameters because of the advanced knowledge of the Windfinders. It
was affecting a global pattern, when it was designed for only a small
region. Men helping would not have changed anything, and the effects
linger most strongly near Ebou Dar, but also along the "spokes" which
radiated from that place. (I should have asked if a spoke went out
over Tear.) My comment: Nyah-nyah.
Moiraine lost her list sometime between NS and tEotW. By the opening
of the story, all she could remember was that there had been a name
from the Two Rivers.
On the subject of a story set in the Age of Legends, most probably
not. The Age of Legends was entirely too boring to write about, up
until the time it became too interesting. And at that point, it
became too gloomy because it was a long, drawn out apocalypse.
He has no particular real world inspiration for the One Power, at
least not that he knows of. He admits that he's read a lot of stuff
and at times forgets a source here and there.
At one point, he looked at me and added (with no prompting or
questioning) that no, Mat is not Cyndane. He explained that at
another Signing, he had a string of ten or so people in a row ask him
about Mat, and he got frustrated and belted out, "What if Mat is
Cyndane?" He claimed he then recanted, but couldn't tell if the guy
he told that too believed that he was joking. I admitted that I had
heard the story, but it was okay-- we got the joke. He then added
that while he likes Chalker's and Varley's works, he does not intend
to emulate them. "Not at all like Balthamel becoming Aran'gar?" I
quipped. He retorted to the effect that was one character, not a
whole host of characters.
He is already thinking about his next work. He has been thinking
about it for five or six years now. It will definitely be a fantasy,
definitely not Wheel of Time, and will spend a lot of time in a
culture that somewhat resembles the Seanchan. Ie, the Shipwreck thing
is still going strong. Someone standing behind me commented about the
Seanchan being a bunch of sociopaths, and Jordan returned that the
Seanchan system is a reasonable response to the conditions they found.
I opined that we could have a serious debate in ethics over that
point. I expect that in other circumstances we could have rolled up
our debating sleeves and gone at it, but there were more books to sign
and I didn't want to get in anyone's way.
If an Aes Sedai becomes Black Ajah, the Warder would know instantly
that something was up, but wouldn't know exactly what. The Black Ajah
has three choices, then-- hope the Warder is a Darkfriend or amenable
to being one, hide the affiliation, or arrange for an accident. Yes,
this would be painful for the Aes Sedai, but it might become
necessary. The process of becoming Black Ajah is evidently quite
painful in its own right and thus probably involves more than just
swearing new Oaths on the Rod. (I submit that this is why he Red Ajah
is rife with Black Ajah-- they have an easier time actively recruiting
from that pool. By the same token, I claim that the Gren Ajah is more
pure than the others.)
Asmodean is, and I quote, road-kill. And he still claims there are
many indirect clues from tFoH on about who killed him. He also claims
that very, very few of the fan letters he gets are correct about it.
Will more heroes be bound to the Horn? RAFO.
Who or what is the Tamyrlin? RAFO.
(RAFO sometimes means that he intends to reveal it later. Sometimes
it means that an answer is not consequential, but it's logical
implications ARE consequential.)
He really hopes to get the next volume out faster.
His plans have not signifigantly altered from the time of conception.
No major scenes have been inserted or left out or substantially
altered.
Apparently a Dorset House (?) is currently planning to produce
replicas of jewelry (such as the Aes Sedai rings, Moiraine's forehead
jewel) and articles of clothing (like the Shawls) for the market.
Does the Snakes and Foxes game played in the Two Rivers have anything
to do with the 'finn? RAFO. (My answer: Duh?)
A calendar for next year seems like a very possible thing. So does
the encyclopedia concept we've heard about-- he already keeps a
running compilation of invented terms anyway.
There were a lot of amusing personal remarks as well, which I won't
try to capture. He seems to have a half a dozen answers for the
question, "Where do you get your ideas?" The one that tickled me was
that he sends off to a mail order company from Trenton New, Jersey (I
think) for some large amount of money, at three ideas per page. I
looked askance and remarked that Ellison gave the same answer, except
his ideas came from a warehouse in Peoria (which I'm sure I've read
somewhere. Think it was Ellison.) He shot back, "Yeah, but did you
notice that mine are more expensive?"
And at one point, while posing for a picture, he asked if should
appear pensive? Or perhaps Byronic? I shot back, "Byronic, or
ironic?" "I can do ironic, too, but it costs more."
And my favorite fan comment: "No questions. Just, 'Thanks.'" Dunno
who that was, but if you're reading, I thought that was cool.
So that's that.
Last signing of the tour.
(I left out a bunch of shit we already knew about how many more books,
how does he title things, who's his favorite character, what's his
daily schedule, etc.)
--
John S. Novak, III j...@concentric.net
The Humblest Man on the Net
Michael Bruce
>On 21 Nov 1998 18:01:49 PST, John S. Novak, III <j...@concentric.net> wrote:
>
>Version 1.01.
>Included spoiler warning, and a few comments at the end.
>
>
>I did my best not to be completely underfoot, getting out of the
>way of photographs, keeping relatively silent while people were
>chatting to him and asking him questions. On a personal and weird
>note, a lot of people seemed to recognize me, too. (Of those, I
>recognized only Amy and her man.) This is unsettling and weird. And
>I am not nearly as approachable as I may have seemed to be-- but I
>would have felt like a heel for bitchslapping people who stood behind
>me trying to talk to me or at me or near me as I was busy listening
>and jotting and dodging out of photographs, while Jordan was being
>so nice about letting me hang out there.
Hey, you're a celebrity.
This kind of thing always makes me wonder about what the actual lurker
population of raswrj is.
>Balefire: I'm right. (This was my question) What this means is, if
>someone is Balefire, the Dark One can't reincarnate them. But they
>CAN be spun back out into the wheel as normal. Balefire is NOT the
>eternal death of the soul. He also made a comment to the effect that
>even in the absence of balefire, there may be circumstances where the
>Dark One cannot bring someone back. There was a long line, so I
>didn't press.
I'm glad to hear this. I've always thought both of the above things
(although I think that you were the person from whom I originally got
the idea that balefire inhibits reincarnation), and I'm glad to hear
they're true. Especially the bit about it not being the eternal death
of the soul.
>The Bowl: Someone asked him whether, if men had helped the Aes Sedai
>and Windfinders and Kin channel through the Bowl, the One Power would
>still have been screwed up. His implicit assumption was that the Bowl
>screwed things up. I expected this to be a sheer RAFO. I was
>surprised. He went into a relatively detailed explanation to the
>effect that the Bowl was stressed far, far beyond its original design
>parameters because of the advanced knowledge of the Windfinders. It
>was affecting a global pattern, when it was designed for only a small
>region. Men helping would not have changed anything, and the effects
>linger most strongly near Ebou Dar, but also along the "spokes" which
>radiated from that place. (I should have asked if a spoke went out
>over Tear.) My comment: Nyah-nyah.
Another issue buried six feet down. This is good to have cleared up,
althought I don't think there were that many holdouts left.
>Moiraine lost her list sometime between NS and tEotW. By the opening
>of the story, all she could remember was that there had been a name
>from the Two Rivers.
This sound rather weak. You'd think she would've memorized the list,
or made copies, or had it tatooed on the bottom of her feet, or
something. That's an important thing to lose.
>Asmodean is, and I quote, road-kill. And he still claims there are
>many indirect clues from tFoH on about who killed him. He also claims
>that very, very few of the fan letters he gets are correct about it.
It's good to hear he's dead. It's not so good to hear that Jordan's
still under the impression that there are noticeable clues.
>Does the Snakes and Foxes game played in the Two Rivers have anything
>to do with the 'finn? RAFO. (My answer: Duh?)
Someone actually asked that question? Wow.
--
Michael Bruce | mab...@students.wisc.edu
JRSCaudill
>11/21/98 8:01 PM Central Standard Time
>j...@concentric.net (John S. Novak, III)
Said the following :
>There was a signing at a local Borders very close to my apartment.
>Kate, myself, and the Dilicks attended
>I asked politely if I could
>stand off to the side and record the answers to any questions that he
>gave.
>Here's what I learned:
Etc...Etc.
I gave up trying to keep up with you guys long ago and have taken to just
lurking as I'm sure many others do.I for one would like to thank all of the
people who have been fortunate enough to attend one of these signings and then
take the time to record and report all of this great inside information.Mr
Jordans tour did not bring him close enough to my area for me to attend any of
these events.(Although I suppose the argument could be made that a REAL fan
would have made the trip to Chicago I believe he stopped there and I live in
central Minnesota) but to be honest Chicago might just as well be The Blasted
Lands to this country boy.I have been printing all of the answers to the
questions and it is a very intresting document.As I always have done since
starting the series I am rereading all of the previous material in anticapation
of the new book.I feel lucky this time around because I was able to start off
this trip into Randland with The Illistrated guide then New Spring and then
into the series itself.I have been pretty successful in avoiding major spoilers
yet I feel I go into POD with the clearest understanding yet of what has taken
place so far.(That is not to say that I have figured it all out by any
means)the disscussions that take place on this group have given me a insight to
questions I didn't even think of.
Anyway thanks again to all of you apostles out there.
JRSCa...@aol.com
John M. Atkinson
wrote:
>is still going strong. Someone standing behind me commented about the
>Seanchan being a bunch of sociopaths, and Jordan returned that the
>Seanchan system is a reasonable response to the conditions they found.
>I opined that we could have a serious debate in ethics over that
>point. I expect that in other circumstances we could have rolled up
>our debating sleeves and gone at it, but there were more books to sign
>and I didn't want to get in anyone's way.
That would be me.
I think that RJ meant that the Seanchan system looked reasonable to
them, knowing what they did and faced with the choices as they saw
them. Which is, of course, the test of any invented civilization--
does it flow logically from the context it is in?
Now, whether you or I or anyone more familliar with Randland as a
whole and/or Real World history and sociology would find Seanchan
society attractive, positive, or otherwise not quite a "whole society
of sociopaths", that's a seperate question all together.
John M. Atkinson
nospam becomes erols to reply
What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly. . .
it would be strange indeed if so celestial an article as
FREEDOM should not be highly rated.
--Thomas Jefferson
Jason Atkinson
Atkinson) wrote:
[snip]
I don't how that happened, but that was jasona...@erols.com.
Some how that went out on my brother's account. I checked my settings
and they are correct. I'll see what this goes out as.
sula...@my-dejanews.com
j...@concentric.net wrote:
> On 21 Nov 1998 18:01:49 PST, John S. Novak, III <j...@concentric.net> wrote:
>
> Version 1.01.
> Included spoiler warning, and a few comments at the end.
>
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
A few things not mentioned but learned at the signing.
Jordan has not replied to any fan letters in the last year. I am not sure if
he said he would be tackling the old letters or whether he would be answering
any from now on. He did say he apologized for not being able to get to them.
I think he said he was basically involved in writing something. (duh)
There was the usual mention of how many books. I heard three or so but then
he said something else which I missed. It seemed to create a bit of buzz but
I have no idea what it was.
He said he had no idea what the title of the next book was yet. Once again I
I did not hear the rest of what he said. I think though he said that once the
title was firmly established he will let us know. Which is what he did with
tPoD.
Romanda is the Sister who is mentioned in New SPring as being as old as
Cadsuane.
(Sorry if that was something many of you already knew to be true. I had a bet
going so was rather pleased with that one)
There was something about Black Ajah and the oaths. I am not sure if this was
part of the Warder question or not.
Problem is what little I heard was then appended by the questioner's
perception of what Jordan said. So I may have gotten a few things wrong.
Overall it was the friendliest crowd of fans I have seen yet in four signings
over the years. For the most part people wanted to talk and get to know one
another.
The cake was good and as Mr. Novak said quite cool. I got the feeling that
the powers that be at this Borders either really liked having RJ there
because they were fans or because he was a #1 bestselling author. Either way
they were very appreciative to have him there and have his fans there as
well.
If this is how they do things on a regular basis I think their author series
is something not to miss.
Thanks Mr. Novak. I was not sure if that was you or not. I am glad you came
prepared and got there early.
Maybe next time you could vet the questions as well!
One thing about this signing I did notice. We all might be reaing WoT but
damn if I would recognize by some of the theories out there.
My favorite had to be the voluable blonde who insisted that Egwene is the
reborn soul whose previous incarnations have included (I hope I remember
these all)
1.The founder of the White Tower (forget her name)
2.Caraighan Maconar
3.Mabriam en Shareed
4. & 5. two women named in the forntpeices of two fo the books but I don't
remember which ones
6.Rashima Kerenmosa
7.Kirukin (the Trolloc Queen) she was rather excited since she was mentioned
again in the new book
8.Deane Aryman
this one was the last I recognized
I think she also was trying to decide if the three strong Amyrlins mentioned
in the new book were also a part of this ongoing heroic chain.
Did you catch any of that J Novak? We were rather close to the table when she
was going into great depth the various clues she thinks existed for each case.
More amusing were the wide-eyed looks from those standing by her.
Oh well a good time was had by everyone from what I saw. Oh except the lady
who rather loudly started bitching because the people seated towards the
center got to go up first even though 'we were in the line before they were'.
This got repeated at least twenty times in five minutes. I guess she
thought those ten people were going to make a world of difference.
Thanks again Mr. Novak. Hopefully this will set a trend for the future
signings. A geographical breakdown perhaps. Boye and Bergman can fight it
out for who gets the NY territory.
---
JSH
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
John S. Novak, III
Two more tidbits.
There was one piece of information that I _thought_ I heard correctly,
but didn't want to relate until I was sure it made proper sense.
Thanks to Rich Boye for confirming the text of NS (which I don't have)
and that the following makes sense:
One person asked whether Romanda was the Aes Sedai that Cadsuane
referred to as being nearly as old as she was. Jordan answered in the
affirmative. I was distracted by someone at the time and _thought_ I
heard that correctly, but wasn't quite sure. (And I gave the guy who
asked the question a really weird look, because the answer didn't seem
to make sense-- why was everyone surprised about Cadsuane's being
alive, if Romanda was just about as old? Apparently because Cadsuane
is so much more heroic than Romanda.)
And another tidbit that I meant to mention, but neglected. Someone
actually asked Jordan whether a hermaphrodite would channel Saidin or
Saidar. Jordan was... non-plussed. "A hermaphrodite?! I dunno. I'd
have to sit down and figure that out." He shot the guy a funny look
as he walked away, then remarked to the next group of people in line
that he put that in the same category as the person who wrote to ask
him what Donald Duck would channel.
John S. Novak, III
>Maybe next time you could vet the questions as well!
I was tempted to start answering some of them for him.
I was tempted to write a digning FAQ.
I was tempted to take over the whole show and grill him for 90 minutes
on a bunch of things that he might very well have answered.
But I behaved.
>My favorite had to be the voluable blonde who insisted that Egwene is the
>reborn soul whose previous incarnations have included (I hope I remember
>these all)
There was a voluble blonde?
I missed the voluble blonde. Knew I should have let Kate spell me
recording the answers.
>Did you catch any of that J Novak? We were rather close to the table when she
>was going into great depth the various clues she thinks existed for each case.
Ah... no.
Missed that.
sgi...@ix.netcom.com
> >Seanchan being a bunch of sociopaths, and Jordan returned that the
> >Seanchan system is a reasonable response to the conditions they found.
> >I opined that we could have a serious debate in ethics over that
> >point. I expect that in other circumstances we could have rolled up
> >our debating sleeves and gone at it, but there were more books to sign
> >and I didn't want to get in anyone's way.
>
>
> I think that RJ meant that the Seanchan system looked reasonable to
> them, knowing what they did and faced with the choices as they saw
> them. Which is, of course, the test of any invented civilization--
> does it flow logically from the context it is in?
>
> Now, whether you or I or anyone more familliar with Randland as a
> whole and/or Real World history and sociology would find Seanchan
> society attractive, positive, or otherwise not quite a "whole society
> of sociopaths", that's a seperate question all together.
>
Well, look at it from this perspective: what they intended might not be the
same as what they wound up with. Take communism: on the surface, it's
almost an ideal form of society, but it would never work because of dozens of
factors, not the least of which is human greed, and dozens of conditions that
would never occur. Yet the (former) USSR and China both have spent a long
time trying to implement it, and the end result is not what was envisioned or
intended. Or how about the U.S.? In just 200 years, we have laws and legal
precedents no doubt vastly different from what the original founders ever
intended or even imagined. The Consolidation in Seandar took 900 years, and
that's plenty of time for alot of revision to the original system. As for a
land of sociopaths, I beg to differ. Especially in a monarchy, the attitudes
and polices of the monarch or ruling class are usually _not_ the same as
those of the average working-class slob. You can't just characterize an
entire people based on the actions and beliefs of their ruling class or
government. I seem to remember reading somewhere that when the Allied Forces
invaded Germany, they had a very difficult time reconciling the people in the
German villages with the atrocities in the camps.
No, I'm not a sociologist, so none of this is intended to be gospel. Just my
2 ducats.
Steve G.
--
"They will pay," Lews Therin growled. "I am the Lord of the Morning."
Kate Nepveu
: <sula...@my-dejanews.com> wrote:
:>Maybe next time you could vet the questions as well!
: I was tempted to start answering some of them for him.
: I was tempted to write a digning FAQ.
: I was tempted to take over the whole show and grill him for 90 minutes
: on a bunch of things that he might very well have answered.
: But I behaved.
Pity. It's too bad that they couldn't have included some of those on the
flyer they handed out with the rules.
Maybe someone else out there already asked my question re: the oaths
people swear: does salvation equal rebirth in Randland? Some idiot
just before me in line asked the "have you started the next book yet"
question and got the whole spiel on time of completion of PoD, time to
print, etc., etc., and by the time Jordan was done, the person behind me
had their books already signed, so I didn't want to hold up the line...
:>My favorite had to be the voluable blonde who insisted that Egwene is the
:>reborn soul whose previous incarnations have included (I hope I remember
:>these all)
: There was a voluble blonde?
: I missed the voluble blonde. Knew I should have let Kate spell me
: recording the answers.
*shrug* I offered. Several times.
Overall, it was a very nice signing. The staff managed the crowd (I'd
guess a couple hundred people) very well, the cake and cider were very
thoughtful touches (I was disappointed that the cake didn't taste as good
as it looked, though), and things went very smoothly.
Kate
--
http://www.concentric.net/~knepveu/ - The Paired Reading Page; Reviews
"Most days it's just stumbling around in the dark with the rest of
creation, smashing into things and wondering why it hurts."
--Lois McMaster Bujold, _Shards of Honor_
John S. Novak, III
>Pity. It's too bad that they couldn't have included some of those on the
>flyer they handed out with the rules.
That's sort of what I had in mind, really.
>Maybe someone else out there already asked my question re: the oaths
>people swear: does salvation equal rebirth in Randland?
Not at this one, sorry.
>just before me in line asked the "have you started the next book yet"
>question and got the whole spiel on time of completion of PoD, time to
>print, etc., etc., and by the time Jordan was done, the person behind me
>had their books already signed, so I didn't want to hold up the line...
You probably should have.
I think he might not have minded.
He deals with recognition and public appearances pretty well.
>: There was a voluble blonde?
>: I missed the voluble blonde. Knew I should have let Kate spell me
>: recording the answers.
>*shrug* I offered. Several times.
Yeah, yeah, I know.
>Overall, it was a very nice signing. The staff managed the crowd (I'd
>guess a couple hundred people) very well, the cake and cider were very
>thoughtful touches (I was disappointed that the cake didn't taste as good
>as it looked, though), and things went very smoothly.
The key thing is to have a plan.
Doesn't have to be a great plan, because most bad plans are still
better than total anarchy.
They had a plan.
Aaron Bergman
>
>Thanks again Mr. Novak. Hopefully this will set a trend for the future
>signings. A geographical breakdown perhaps. Boye and Bergman can fight it
>out for who gets the NY territory.
John has more chutzpah than I. I thought about asking to stand
around listening to the Q&A but didn't actually do so.
Aaron
Aaron Bergman
>On Sun, 22 Nov 1998 14:22:08 GMT, sula...@my-dejanews.com
><sula...@my-dejanews.com> wrote:
>
>>Maybe next time you could vet the questions as well!
>
>I was tempted to start answering some of them for him.
Back when Jordan was doing chats on AOL, they had these areas
called "rows" where you could chat with about 10 other people. It
was pretty much possible to answer all his questions before he
did. AOL never let through the interesting questions.
>I was tempted to write a digning FAQ.
>I was tempted to take over the whole show and grill him for 90 minutes
>on a bunch of things that he might very well have answered.
>
>But I behaved.
But wouldn't it be fun? I was answering some of the questions
that the people seated around me at the NY signing had. I think I
scared a few of them. Half of them were occasional lurkers,
though. "Oh! Is that the FAQ?!?".
Aaron
Jason Atkinson
(Jason Atkinson) wrote:
>On Sun, 22 Nov 1998 08:52:26 GMT, john.m....@nospam.com (John M.
>Atkinson) wrote:
>
>[snip]
>
>I don't how that happened, but that was jasona...@erols.com.
>
>Some how that went out on my brother's account. I checked my settings
>and they are correct. I'll see what this goes out as.
>
Okay, that post was from John. My response did not show up yet.
Sorry for the confusion.
Jason Atkinson
wrote:
>On 21 Nov 1998 18:01:49 PST, John S. Novak, III <j...@concentric.net> wrote:
>
>Version 1.01.
>Included spoiler warning, and a few comments at the end.
>
>
>There was a signing at a local Borders very close to my apartment.
>Kate, myself, and the Dilicks attended. The signing began at 1:00 PM.
>We showed up separately between 11:00 and 11:30 AM to find ourselves
>close to the front of the line. Such paranoia was justified, as the
>line grew very swiftly and to great length.
I was there at 12:30. I'll know better next time.
>
>I did my best not to be completely underfoot, getting out of the
>way of photographs, keeping relatively silent while people were
>chatting to him and asking him questions. On a personal and weird
>note, a lot of people seemed to recognize me, too. (Of those, I
>recognized only Amy and her man.) This is unsettling and weird.
Blame those that post Darkfriend Social pictures on the internet,
though I would have found out from Amy anyway.
> And
>I am not nearly as approachable as I may have seemed to be-- but I
>would have felt like a heel for bitchslapping people who stood behind
>me trying to talk to me or at me or near me as I was busy listening
>and jotting and dodging out of photographs, while Jordan was being
>so nice about letting me hang out there.
Well, you weren't the only one that wanted to listen to RJ.
>swearing new Oaths on the Rod. (I submit that this is why he Red Ajah
>is rife with Black Ajah-- they have an easier time actively recruiting
>from that pool. By the same token, I claim that the Gren Ajah is more
>pure than the others.)
Makes sense.
>Apparently a Dorset House (?) is currently planning to produce
>replicas of jewelry (such as the Aes Sedai rings, Moiraine's forehead
>jewel) and articles of clothing (like the Shawls) for the market.
I think he also mentioned Ash'aman pins.
For those that have spent much time wondering about hermaphroditic
channelers, RJ doesn't know which part of the power they use. The
things people ask. He also said that the tape versions of the books
mangled a lot of the pronunciation.
Other then that, there wasn't much new.
For those that have not been to a signing yet, they really do mean it
when they say hardback books only. No signing bookmarks for friends.
Sorry. He will sign the weapons from Museum Replicas (which he was
rather complimentary of) but I did not see any.
Jason Atkinson
wrote:
>*shrug* I offered. Several times.
>
>Overall, it was a very nice signing. The staff managed the crowd (I'd
>guess a couple hundred people) very well, the cake and cider were very
>thoughtful touches (I was disappointed that the cake didn't taste as good
>as it looked, though), and things went very smoothly.
>
>Kate
So that was you. I was the 16 year old kid with the Space Center
shirt standing next to Novak.
I just remembered one more thing. My brother, who has just decided to
join the NG, asked if Robert Jordan had any one the rules worked out
for the games mentioned in his book. His answer was "Some of them."
As RJ was literally walking out at the time, there was no chance to
ask which ones or if he would market any of them.
Bunnythor
>He shot the guy a funny look
>as he walked away, then remarked to the next group of people in line
>that he put that in the same category as the person who wrote to ask
>him what Donald Duck would channel.
Sheesh. Some people.
Everyone knows that it would be Saiduck.
--Tshen
Qodaxti Institute, 87th stratum
Kate Nepveu
: On 22 Nov 1998 09:48:45 PST, Kate Nepveu <kne...@concentric.net>
: wrote:
[Spelling Novak at note-taking]
:>*shrug* I offered. Several times.
: So that was you.
"I believe so, also. Since we both believe it, we might as well assume
it's true." [1 pt]
Alternatively, I've got dibs on the Very Small Asian Animal Occasionally
Seen in Novak's Company niche on this group...
(Hey, you gotta specialize...)
: I just remembered one more thing. My brother, who has just decided to
: join the NG, asked if Robert Jordan had any one the rules worked out
: for the games mentioned in his book. His answer was "Some of them."
: As RJ was literally walking out at the time, there was no chance to
: ask which ones or if he would market any of them.
I suspect that Fisher Chess isn't one of them.
John S. Novak, III
>A few of us grumbled that he could have at least read something with
>character names in them. When I was in line the first time, we were
>all debating how exactly to say the names, even though the earlier
>books have a way of saying them.
A lot of people asked pronunciation questions.
He remarked that no one ever seemed to read the glossaries. He also
remarked that one of the taped versions (I omitted this earlier
because I didn't catch the publishers) was just awful about this--
they stopped calling for clarifications about halfway through the
first book. He thought this meant they had enough to extrapolate
correctly for the rest of them. They did not.
He ended by commenting that everyone was going to come up with their
own internal pronunciations anyway.
>> I will make one comment about Mr. Jordan: he
>> seems like a very nice man.
>No kidding. I had written my name messily for the personalized signing,
>and he apologized to me for not seeing it correctly.
He was extremely meticulous about getting names right.
(He must not have said your name out loud, or I didn't catch it. I
was idly keeping my ears open for people from the newsgroup. Waving
and saying hi is cool-- I just couldn't carry on extended
conversations with people and scribe at the same time.)
>> Here's what I learned:
>> Balefire: I'm right. (This was my question) What this means is, if
>> someone is Balefire, the Dark One can't reincarnate them. But they
>> CAN be spun back out into the wheel as normal. Balefire is NOT the
>> eternal death of the soul. He also made a comment to the effect that
>> even in the absence of balefire, there may be circumstances where the
>> Dark One cannot bring someone back. There was a long line, so I
>> didn't press.
>So I guess it comes down to that can't obliterate the soul, eh?
Basically. That was the thrust of the question, and it confirmed my
suspicions. The implications are notvery practical, but it means that
what Rand did to Liah _can_ be considered a form of kindness-- she was
dead already and he did save her some significant pain, and she can be
reborn. And Rahvin and Be'lal can come back in the next Age of
Legends if it is deemed necessary.
>> Moiraine lost her list sometime between NS and tEotW.
>Someone else has already commented on this, but this sounds really wierd
>of Morriane, who doesn't seem to be a person who would lose stuff, unless
>running away from trollocs or something.
Yeah. Now.
Twenty years ago?
It's that sort of catastrophe that makes you swear, "I will never,
ever let that happen again!" I keep a little notebook full of those
at work. ("I will never put a non-polarized socket in anything I ever
design." Result of someone else's catastrophic fuck-up.)
>> Asmodean is, and I quote, road-kill. And he still claims there are
>> many indirect clues from tFoH on about who killed him. He also claims
>> that very, very few of the fan letters he gets are correct about it.
>Too bad nobody asked what was the most frequent answer. :)
I thought about it.
>> Will more heroes be bound to the Horn? RAFO.
>Unless more than one person ask that question, it was the person who was in
>front of me, James (I was the blonde with the red sweater and black pants).
Well I'd like to pour on the charm and say, "Oh, YOU were that fox!"
but the simple fact is, I had a crashing headcahe at that point and
was struggling to keep scribing. (Why didn't I let Kate spell me? It
was fun, too.)
Sorry, I remember the questions, but other than that, nothing.
>Because i didn't bring my list of questions and I was really nervous, I asked
>the only question I could think of offhand: Would Birgitte know english?
>Jordan said something to the fact that she would if she remembered it. I
>guess Birgitte is a really old soul. :-)
Didn't I record that?
>> Does the Snakes and Foxes game played in the Two Rivers have anything
>> to do with the 'finn? RAFO. (My answer: Duh?)
>Alot of people I talked to in line had never read the FAQ, nor the
>newsgroup. I found that amazing.
Quite possibly, a lot of the people you talked to just aren't internet
folks.
>A bunch of us in line also debated whether Rand was nuts. Most of the
>females said he was nuts [including me] and most of the guys said he
>was paranoid with good reason -- "Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean
>they aren't after me".
He's paranoid with good reason AND he's nuts.
I resisted the claims that he was well and truly nuts for a while, but
a lot of his actions and comments and decisions in tPoD were so
paranoid and delusional that the conclusion is inescapable. He's also
got a bad case of ego, which only just BARELY misses hubris for the
simple fact of the matter that he _can_ throw the Seanchan back with
only 6,000 troops and his Asha'man.
--
John S. Novak, III j...@concentric.net
John S. Novak, III
<johnn...@southland.smart.net.SPAMMEN.VERBOTEN> wrote:
>I saw you taking notes and I thought I had seen you at the DFS in August. I
>didn't want to distract you from your notes, so I didn't speak.
Actually, I _did_ recognize you, but I was kinda busy...
>This makes sense. If balefire were forever, the total number of threads
>would decrease with each turning in which balefire was known. Either the
>Wheel would need to spin new threads, or in time there would be few to no
>people left.
This was precisely my argument.
(Along with the fact that soul destruction is generally a power
reserved for God(s) not men.)
Rachel K. Warren
> Jordan began with a reading, which was fairly short. He read the
> first few pages from chapter one of tPoD. I think I'm happier
> narrating them in my own internal voice.
A few of us grumbled that he could have at least read something with
character names in them. When I was in line the first time, we were
all debating how exactly to say the names, even though the earlier
books have a way of saying them.
> I will make one comment about Mr. Jordan: he
> seems like a very nice man.
No kidding. I had written my name messily for the personalized signing,
and he apologized to me for not seeing it correctly.
> Here's what I learned:
> Balefire: I'm right. (This was my question) What this means is, if
> someone is Balefire, the Dark One can't reincarnate them. But they
> CAN be spun back out into the wheel as normal. Balefire is NOT the
> eternal death of the soul. He also made a comment to the effect that
> even in the absence of balefire, there may be circumstances where the
> Dark One cannot bring someone back. There was a long line, so I
> didn't press.
So I guess it comes down to that can't obliterate the soul, eh?
> Moiraine lost her list sometime between NS and tEotW.
Someone else has already commented on this, but this sounds really wierd
of Morriane, who doesn't seem to be a person who would lose stuff, unless
running away from trollocs or something.
> On the subject of a story set in the Age of Legends, most probably
> not. The Age of Legends was entirely too boring to write about, up
> until the time it became too interesting. And at that point, it
> became too gloomy because it was a long, drawn out apocalypse.
I'd like to see some story or info about how AoL lasted or the first
couple of decades of the AoL. I won't get it, but I can always dream. ;-)
> Asmodean is, and I quote, road-kill. And he still claims there are
> many indirect clues from tFoH on about who killed him. He also claims
> that very, very few of the fan letters he gets are correct about it.
Too bad nobody asked what was the most frequent answer. :)
> Will more heroes be bound to the Horn? RAFO.
Unless more than one person ask that question, it was the person who was in
front of me, James (I was the blonde with the red sweater and black pants).
Because i didn't bring my list of questions and I was really nervous, I asked
the only question I could think of offhand: Would Birgitte know english?
Jordan said something to the fact that she would if she remembered it. I
guess Birgitte is a really old soul. :-)
> (RAFO sometimes means that he intends to reveal it later. Sometimes
> it means that an answer is not consequential, but it's logical
> implications ARE consequential.)
I also found it amusing that they gave out flyers describing RAFO. I still
have it. :)
> Does the Snakes and Foxes game played in the Two Rivers have anything
> to do with the 'finn? RAFO. (My answer: Duh?)
Alot of people I talked to in line had never read the FAQ, nor the
newsgroup. I found that amazing.
Another thing I found amusing was that a woman behind me talked about how
she lives where RJ originates (Charlestown?). He supposedly takes his
bicycle around town, waving at people and ringing the bell on his bike.
A bunch of us in line also debated whether Rand was nuts. Most of the
females said he was nuts [including me] and most of the guys said he
was paranoid with good reason -- "Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean
they aren't after me".
Another amusing remark when someone said something to the fact that RJ was
dragging the books out and that he could easily end the books by Rand picking
up most of the important main characters (Nyn, Egwene, Mat, etc), pick up
the big ass sa'angreals, then go to Shayol Ghoul<sp> and beat the crap
out of the Dark One. The most amusing part was when the person said that
the creator (or Rand, can't remember which) would smack Mat and Nynaeve in
the process for being such annoying characters. (Before the Nyn Defense
league tries to hurt me with the tugging braid, I'm just the messenger,
don't hurt me :-)
I had alot of fun, especially since it was my first signing for any author.
Next time I'll get their alot earlier and come prepared with my questions,
so I can give them out to the other people I talk to in line. ;-)
--
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Rachel K. Warren warr...@jmu.edu http://sys12.cs.jmu.edu/homes/warrenrk/
"Her modem lights are on but there's no carrier."
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Ravinomaha
>I resisted the claims that he was well and truly nuts for a while, but
>a lot of his actions and comments and decisions in tPoD were so
>paranoid and delusional that the conclusion is inescapable. He's also
>got a bad case of ego, which only just BARELY misses hubris for the
>simple fact of the matter that he _can_ throw the Seanchan back with
>only 6,000 troops and his Asha'man.
>
I agree that Rand is loony, but I don't think hes TOTALLY insane. There are
times when he seems quite lucid, like when he is with Min. The taint is
definately effecting him, but he still retains his sanity at certain points.
John M. Atkinson
(Jason Atkinson) wrote:
>I don't how that happened, but that was jasona...@erols.com.
>
>Some how that went out on my brother's account. I checked my settings
>and they are correct. I'll see what this goes out as.
>
Nonsense.
For those who don't know us, Jason and I are brothers. I didn't
frequent this group until yesterday (or day before? Forget what time
I logged on, much less when I started reading messages. Date
references get funny when you do most of your internet reading at
midnight). So he sees post in group I don't frequent which echos
comment he was planning to make, at same time that he and I
inadvertently make identical posts to another group, he understandably
figures it's system error.
Sorry 'bout the confusion folks.
John M. Atkinson
>There was the usual mention of how many books. I heard three or so but then
>he said something else which I missed. It seemed to create a bit of buzz but
>I have no idea what it was.
He said "At least three". I was standing near there and said "Isn't
that what he said three books ago?" and he replied that yes, it was.
It's what he said last book, and for all the books previous. IIRC, he
said it was what he said about the first book.
John M. Atkinson
wrote:
>: I just remembered one more thing. My brother, who has just decided to
>: join the NG, asked if Robert Jordan had any one the rules worked out
>: for the games mentioned in his book. His answer was "Some of them."
>: As RJ was literally walking out at the time, there was no chance to
>: ask which ones or if he would market any of them.
>
>I suspect that Fisher Chess isn't one of them.
And that's the one I'm interested in. Stones sounds like Go, Snakes
and Foxes is a foregone conclusion, but Fisher Chess sounds like the
sort of thing to burn weekends with.
Ray Chason
>On 21 Nov 1998 18:01:49 PST, John S. Novak, III <j...@concentric.net> wrote:
>
>Version 1.01.
>Included spoiler warning, and a few comments at the end.
>
[No real spoilers here.]
>
>I did my best not to be completely underfoot, getting out of the
>way of photographs, keeping relatively silent while people were
>chatting to him and asking him questions. On a personal and weird
>note, a lot of people seemed to recognize me, too. (Of those, I
>recognized only Amy and her man.)
I saw you taking notes and I thought I had seen you at the DFS in August. I
didn't want to distract you from your notes, so I didn't speak.
>Balefire: I'm right. (This was my question) What this means is, if
>someone is Balefire, the Dark One can't reincarnate them. But they
>CAN be spun back out into the wheel as normal. Balefire is NOT the
>eternal death of the soul. He also made a comment to the effect that
>even in the absence of balefire, there may be circumstances where the
>Dark One cannot bring someone back. There was a long line, so I
>didn't press.
This makes sense. If balefire were forever, the total number of threads
would decrease with each turning in which balefire was known. Either the
Wheel would need to spin new threads, or in time there would be few to no
people left.
--
--------------===============<[ Ray Chason ]>===============--------------
PGP public key at http://www.smart.net/~rchason/pubkey.asc
Delenda est Windoze!
Joe Shaw
those narrow little typewriter-like things that court stenographers
use. Whatever the name for that thing is.
In multiple article, j...@concentric.net (John S. Novak III) wrote:
> Balefire: I'm right. (This was my question) What this means is, if
> someone is Balefire, the Dark One can't reincarnate them. But they
> CAN be spun back out into the wheel as normal. Balefire is NOT the
> eternal death of the soul.
Bah.
Humbug, too.
Ah, what the hell does he know, he's just the author. Dammit, we're
his FANS, we're supposed to know the series better than he does.
Obviously, His Creatorness is mistaken.
I guess that means the Dark One isn't so all-powerful after all.
This weakens the whoel Pattern/Weave/Threads metaphor; it doesn't
make any sense to me any more. The way I always thought of it was
that the threads on the front of the Pattern were living, and the
threads on the back were 'not currently spun out'. Also, it then
made sense that being balefired in Tel'aran'rhiod killed you no
matter which reality you came from.
Now, with the threads of the pattern being 'lives' and not souls
(I do have to admit that 'lives' is the word used to describe the
Pattern in the glossary, so I guess RJ thinks he knows what he's
talking about.), we're left with the unanswered question of where
souls go when they are not threads in the pattern. Apparently,
they go some 'heaven' (to pick a term) outside of the pattern.
What, is there a line to get in at the Pearly Gates, and the Dark
One can only reincarnate souls from the head of the queue? Does
he stand there next to Saint "The Creator" Peter and say "I want
to keep that one?" If the Dark One is imprisoned 'Outside of Time',
how come we can only reincarnate people that have just left the
pattern?
It just doesn't make any bloody _sense_!
This also lessens the worse case scenario of using balefire.
With threads as souls, too much balefire can leave the pattern,
well, thread bare; no enough threads to make a pattern. Now, the
souls of people whose threads have been burned out can be turned
into more new threads to add to the pattern. Using lots of balefire
might mess up the Pattern for a while, but the Wheel will fix the
pattern after some time. This implies to me that balefire cannot
break the Wheel of Time itself, just harm the results of the Wheel's
weaving. Sure, balefire is still the most dangerous and effective
weapon seen so far, but its far from the apocolyptic weapon we've
been lead to believe.
> He also made a comment to the effect that
> even in the absence of balefire, there may be circumstances where the
> Dark One cannot bring someone back. There was a long line, so I
> didn't press.
Such as if the 'soul' is trapped by, say, the Wind in the Ways, or
Mashadar?
> The implications are not very practical, but it means that
> what Rand did to Liah _can_ be considered a form of kindness-- she was
> dead already and he did save her some significant pain, and she can be
> reborn.
It also quite ungraciously strips the ending of A Crown of Swords of
whatever bit of tragic pathos
after the ambiguous death of
Sammael.
Before, Liah was _different_ from all the other women whose deaths
Rand is flagellating with consience with. All the other women were
dead, but Liah was D.E.A.D DEAD. Rand was trying to 'save' her from
Mashadar, but ended up killing her eternally. It's so (sniffle) sadly
ironic. Good god, man, _that's_ a Tragedy!
It would also have given Rand the impetus, when he realized exactly
what he had done, to finally have that nervous breakdown that he needs
to have before he can come out the other side, finally starting to get
over his little women's death fetish, and be ready and able to do what
he needs to do to win the Last Battle.
But no, that would be too easy. It would be too much like character
development. We've got to drag this fetish out for several more books
like everything else in the series.
Now, it's just one more women's death that Rand can flaggelate with
consciousness with, little different than all the rest.
Woe is me, I killed a woman. Oh, but she was a darkfriend.
Woe is me, Maidens died because of me. Oh, but they're soldiers, and
were willing to die.
Woe is me, Moiraine died to save me. Oh, but she choose to do that.
Woe is me, I killed Liah with balefire. Oh, but she still will be
reborn eventually anyway.
So that whole business with Liah getting lost was ONLY to distract
Rand while battling Sammael?
How...BORING.
Bah flaming humbug, I say!
Stupid damned authors, ruining their own books on me.
At least we still have Memories of Saldaea.
> And Rahvin and Be'lal can come back in the next Age of
> Legends if it is deemed necessary.
It also opens the door for EVEN MORE loony theories. Maybe Be'lal
can be reborn as Thom and Moiraine's son. (But as least not with
memories and abilities still intact.)
It also means that Lews Therin's death in TEotW Prologue _could_ have
been by balefire, and Rand still would have been (re)born.
- Joe
(I just checked the Guide, trying to find a way to resolve the
Pattern/Weave/Thread metaphor with this new information. Instead,
I find the following quote on page 43, discussing the use of balefire
during the War of Power. "Anything destroyed this way actually
ceased to exist before the moment of destruction, leaving only a
memory of deeds no longer done and souls forever erased from the
pattern." Huh. Guess that proves just how (un)authoritative the
guide is.
Ray Chason
>A lot of people asked pronunciation questions.
>
>He remarked that no one ever seemed to read the glossaries. He also
>remarked that one of the taped versions (I omitted this earlier
>because I didn't catch the publishers) was just awful about this--
>they stopped calling for clarifications about halfway through the
>first book. He thought this meant they had enough to extrapolate
>correctly for the rest of them. They did not.
>
>He ended by commenting that everyone was going to come up with their
>own internal pronunciations anyway.
"Quite a few people have asked how to pronounce various names. My reply:
Any-old-how you want. Most are spoken just the way they look. More or
less. Whatever sounds good to you is fine with me, and probably fine with
the characters as well. After all, they're not exactly in a position to
complain."
- Melanie Rawn, on the Dragon Prince/Star series (back of _Stronghold_)
Joe Shaw
> On 23 Nov 1998 06:35:29 GMT, Ray Chason
> <johnn...@southland.smart.net.SPAMMEN.VERBOTEN> wrote:
> >would decrease with each turning in which balefire was known. Either the
> >Wheel would need to spin new threads, or in time there would be few to no
> >people left.
This would make it intuitively obvious to the most casual observer
why Balefire is Bad.
> This was precisely my argument.
So, what exactly are the long-term negative effects of using balefire?
(for large values of long-term)
> (Along with the fact that soul destruction is generally a power
> reserved for God(s) not men.)
I guess this means that balefiring the Dark One would not kill him?
- Joe
John S. Novak, III
>> Balefire: I'm right. (This was my question) What this means is, if
>> someone is Balefire, the Dark One can't reincarnate them. But they
>> CAN be spun back out into the wheel as normal. Balefire is NOT the
>> eternal death of the soul.
>I guess that means the Dark One isn't so all-powerful after all.
>This weakens the whoel Pattern/Weave/Threads metaphor; it doesn't
>make any sense to me any more.
It doesn't just damage it, it pretty much breaks it.
Which I consider to be a good thing.
> The way I always thought of it was
>that the threads on the front of the Pattern were living, and the
>threads on the back were 'not currently spun out'. Also, it then
>made sense that being balefired in Tel'aran'rhiod killed you no
>matter which reality you came from.
It's a metaphor, but don't take it too far.
Threads are very explicitly a function of living human beings. A soul
being born into the world associates a new thread with a soul. This
is probably some automatic process so that when Birgitte was thrown
into the real world by Moghedien, a thread was automatically created
for her.
>Now, with the threads of the pattern being 'lives' and not souls
>(I do have to admit that 'lives' is the word used to describe the
>Pattern in the glossary, so I guess RJ thinks he knows what he's
>talking about.), we're left with the unanswered question of where
>souls go when they are not threads in the pattern. Apparently,
>they go some 'heaven' (to pick a term) outside of the pattern.
>What, is there a line to get in at the Pearly Gates, and the Dark
>One can only reincarnate souls from the head of the queue?
It doesn't matter where they go.
What matters is that, in my opinion, the Dark One has to be
effectivelly "looking right at them" when they go, so to speak.
Balefire has the metaphorical effect of confusing the Dark one,
leaving him musing, "HEY, WAIT A MINUTE! WHERE'D HE GO??" because
they were actually removed five minutes ago.
> Does
>he stand there next to Saint "The Creator" Peter and say "I want
>to keep that one?" If the Dark One is imprisoned 'Outside of Time',
>how come we can only reincarnate people that have just left the
>pattern?
Where is it writ that the Dark One is imprisoned _outside_ of time?
He mentions that he _cannot_ step outside of time as explanation of why
someone who has been Balefired is roadkill. I always had the
impression that time itself (and the Wheel, specifically) was the true
essence of his prison.
>This also lessens the worse case scenario of using balefire.
>With threads as souls, too much balefire can leave the pattern,
>well, thread bare; no enough threads to make a pattern.
<Bing>
One of the reasons I asked the question in the first place.
> Now, the
>souls of people whose threads have been burned out can be turned
>into more new threads to add to the pattern. Using lots of balefire
>might mess up the Pattern for a while, but the Wheel will fix the
>pattern after some time. This implies to me that balefire cannot
>break the Wheel of Time itself, just harm the results of the Wheel's
>weaving.
Well, there may be some critical threshold where you've done so much
damage to the Whell that it slips off the axle and crumbles. If you
do _that_, the game may be over. (I think this is what the Forsaken
fear. Obviously, they may be wrong, but the Dark One seems eager to
have Balefire used.)
But otherwise, I agree-- if you don't cross that threshold, the damage
will probably repair itself over time.
>> He also made a comment to the effect that
>> even in the absence of balefire, there may be circumstances where the
>> Dark One cannot bring someone back. There was a long line, so I
>> didn't press.
>Such as if the 'soul' is trapped by, say, the Wind in the Ways, or
>Mashadar?
No clue.
>Before, Liah was _different_ from all the other women whose deaths
>Rand is flagellating with consience with. All the other women were
>dead, but Liah was D.E.A.D DEAD.
Speak for yourself.
I enver bought that theory anyway.
For me, there was no such tragedy.
>(I just checked the Guide, trying to find a way to resolve the
>Pattern/Weave/Thread metaphor with this new information. Instead,
>I find the following quote on page 43, discussing the use of balefire
>during the War of Power. "Anything destroyed this way actually
>ceased to exist before the moment of destruction, leaving only a
>memory of deeds no longer done and souls forever erased from the
>pattern." Huh. Guess that proves just how (un)authoritative the
>guide is.
Interesting.
Good thing I treat the Guide as meta-fiction.
--
John S. Novak, III j...@concentric.net
John S. Novak, III
>So, what exactly are the long-term negative effects of using balefire?
>(for large values of long-term)
For large values of long term?
I speculate none.
For short periods of time with a lot of balefire, I expect that the
whole Pattern just delivers an "Out of Cheese Error: Redo from
Starts," and weaves all the reamining threads into the image of Bill
Gates before Crashing the Final Crash.
>> (Along with the fact that soul destruction is generally a power
>> reserved for God(s) not men.)
>I guess this means that balefiring the Dark One would not kill him?
Heh.
Bill E. Brooks
wrote:
>On 21 Nov 1998 18:01:49 PST, John S. Novak, III <j...@concentric.net> wrote:
>
>Version 1.01.
>Included spoiler warning, and a few comments at the end.
>
>
>Balefire: I'm right. (This was my question) What this means is, if
>someone is Balefire, the Dark One can't reincarnate them. But they
>CAN be spun back out into the wheel as normal. Balefire is NOT the
>eternal death of the soul. He also made a comment to the effect that
>even in the absence of balefire, there may be circumstances where the
>Dark One cannot bring someone back. There was a long line, so I
>didn't press.
>
What about the situation where balefire is used against a hero called
by the Horn of Valere? Or a hero in TAR?
-Bill Brooks
Trent Goulding
wrote:
>There was a signing at a local Borders very close to my apartment.
>Kate, myself, and the Dilicks attended. The signing began at 1:00 PM.
>We showed up separately between 11:00 and 11:30 AM to find ourselves
>close to the front of the line. Such paranoia was justified, as the
>line grew very swiftly and to great length.
[snip rest of report]
So, did you get/take the opportunity to gently and respectfully
admonish Jordan *not* to leave the Siege of Tar Valon off camera in
book 9? Or would this have been too presumptuous?
Thanks for sharing your notes with us, btw. Very interesting.
--
Trent Goulding
goul...@student.REMOVE.law.ucla.edu
Joe Shaw
goul...@student.REMOVE.law.ucla.edu (Trent Goulding) wrote:
> So, did you get/take the opportunity to gently and respectfully
> book 9? Or would this have been too presumptuous?
Quite so.
- Joe
Donal K. Fellows
Jason Atkinson <jasona...@remove.erols.com> wrote:
> jasona...@remove.erols.com (Jason Atkinson) wrote:
>> john.m....@nospam.com (John M. Atkinson) wrote:
>> I don't how that happened, but that was jasona...@erols.com.
>>
>> Some how that went out on my brother's account. I checked my settings
>> and they are correct. I'll see what this goes out as.
>
> Sorry for the confusion.
Stop explaining. You're confusing me.
Donal.
--
Donal K. Fellows http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/ fell...@cs.man.ac.uk
Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, U.K. +44-161-275-6137
--
If you staple a penguin to the head of a gnu, the result won't catch herring...
John S. Novak, III
>Quite so.
Spoiler protection for book nine speculations, Joe?
I think that's a bit excessive.
--
John S. Novak, III j...@concentric.net
Ranma Al'Thor
: In multiple article, j...@concentric.net (John S. Novak III) wrote:
: One can only reincarnate souls from the head of the queue? Does
: he stand there next to Saint "The Creator" Peter and say "I want
: to keep that one?" If the Dark One is imprisoned 'Outside of Time',
: how come we can only reincarnate people that have just left the
: pattern?
He isn't. The Dark One says that even he cannot step outside of time.
: It also means that Lews Therin's death in TEotW Prologue _could_ have
: been by balefire, and Rand still would have been (re)born.
That would make sense. It fits the desc of what he did.
--
John Walter Biles : MA-History, Ph.D Wannabe at U. Kansas
ra...@falcon.cc.ukans.edu
rh...@tass.org http://www.tass.org/~rhea/falcon.html
rh...@maison-otaku.net http://www.maison-otaku.net/~rhea/
"It's a trap," Tuxedo Umino Kamen announced. "How can you tell?"
"It's always a trap." --Lemon Sherbert #11
Ranma Al'Thor
: So, what exactly are the long-term negative effects of using balefire?
: (for large values of long-term)
The pattern unravels permanently because in a war of mass destruction with
balefire, you can yank threads out of the pattern faster than they can be
replaced. Yeah, they can EVENTUALLY be reborn, but unless the total
population of all of creation is static, then they won't be reborn
instantly.
More importantly, it screws up casuality. That's why the Pattern can
unravel; it's not that you run out of threads, it is that if you nuke an
entire city, every consequence of every action by everyone in the entire
city is suddenly undone back to point X. Given the amount of balefire
nuking a city takes, you can make quite a mess.
Do enough damage to the Pattern faster than it can repair itself, and it
still comes apart.
Ari
Ranma Al'Thor wrote:
(snip)
> : It also means that Lews Therin's death in TEotW Prologue _could_ have
> : been by balefire, and Rand still would have been (re)born.
>
> That would make sense. It fits the desc of what he did.
> --
> Walter Biles : MA-History, Ph.D Wannabe at U. Kansas
I'm not sure about that. Didn't LTT simply fry himself when he overdosed on
OP? If I remember correctly, the prologue simply talks about him drawing in
power, and drawing in more and more power until he couldn't hold it all,
killing himself and raising the Dragonmount. Granted, it's been a while
since I read EotW, but I don't remember anything that hints about balefire
in there.
Rachel K. Warren
> On 23 Nov 1998 01:15:56 GMT, Rachel K. Warren <warr...@falcon.jmu.edu> wrote:
> >A few of us grumbled that he could have at least read something with
> >character names in them. When I was in line the first time, we were
> >all debating how exactly to say the names, even though the earlier
> >books have a way of saying them.
> A lot of people asked pronunciation questions.
> He remarked that no one ever seemed to read the glossaries.
We looked in the glosseries, and for some it just doesn't help much.
> remarked that one of the taped versions (I omitted this earlier
> because I didn't catch the publishers) was just awful about this--
Probably the shortened version, from what I gathered from people in line.
Supposedly the full version tapes that one can buy cost alot (I'm not
sure how much 'alot' is, but it sounded upward of $100 a tape).
> He ended by commenting that everyone was going to come up with their
> own internal pronunciations anyway.
Maybe he should have put pronunciations in the front of the book, like
some authors do.
> He was extremely meticulous about getting names right.
> (He must not have said your name out loud, or I didn't catch it. I
> was idly keeping my ears open for people from the newsgroup. Waving
> and saying hi is cool-- I just couldn't carry on extended
> conversations with people and scribe at the same time.)
It's not like I'm exactly a regular on here. :-)
> >(I was the blonde with the red sweater and black pants).
> Well I'd like to pour on the charm and say, "Oh, YOU were that fox!"
> but the simple fact is, I had a crashing headcahe at that point and
> was struggling to keep scribing. (Why didn't I let Kate spell me? It
> was fun, too.)
I didn't say the above for people to 'pour on the charm' as you so
nicely state it. I just wanted people to know I was there. :)
> >guess Birgitte is a really old soul. :-)
> Didn't I record that?
I didn't see the Birgitte question in your post. I'm really kicking myself
now, because I could have read the FAQ a couple of minutes before I ran
out the door so I could get a couple of questions either answered or RAFO'd.
John S. Novak, III
>> He remarked that no one ever seemed to read the glossaries.
>We looked in the glosseries, and for some it just doesn't help much.
Actually, this is true.
For Nynaeve, it helped me.
For Aes Sedai, I wondered for a while whether Aes was one syllable or
two, because the glossaries don't follow standard dictionary-type
pronunciation guides.
>It's not like I'm exactly a regular on here. :-)
In context (and if not busy scribing) I probably would have recalled
the name. Several people mailed me later and I was caught thinking,
"Oh, yeah, if I'd heard properly, I would have recognized that."
Kevin 'Evinrude' Bartlett
Michael Bruce <mab...@students.wisc.edu> wrote:
>On 21 Nov 1998 18:14:00 PST, John S. Novak, III <j...@concentric.net> wrote:
>>Version 1.01.
>>Included spoiler warning, and a few comments at the end.
>>Moiraine lost her list sometime between NS and tEotW. By the opening
>>of the story, all she could remember was that there had been a name
>>from the Two Rivers.
>This sound rather weak. You'd think she would've memorized the list,
>or made copies, or had it tatooed on the bottom of her feet, or
>something. That's an important thing to lose.
Also, the list she had in NS did _not_ have a name from tTR on it.
It had "Kari al'Thor. Husband Tamlin." Moi muses that they could
have settled anywhere in the world.
Of course, Moi may have found out somehow that they went to tTR, and
_then_ lost the list, but this stretches plausibility.
It also bothers me that Rand's physical similarity to the Aiel isn't
more of a hint to Moi. Aren't there prophecies about the Dragon
being "born of a maiden" or something, or are those about He Who
Comes With The Dawn (the acronym HWCWTD didn't seem particularly
informative)?
Kevinrude
--
klba...@u.washington.edu - Dovie'andi se tovya sagain.
http://weber.u.washington.edu/~klbartle/lanfear.html
Kate Nepveu
: Michael Bruce <mab...@students.wisc.edu> wrote:
:>On 21 Nov 1998 18:14:00 PST, John S. Novak, III <j...@concentric.net> wrote:
:>>Version 1.01.
:>>Included spoiler warning, and a few comments at the end.
:
:>>Moiraine lost her list sometime between NS and tEotW. By the opening
:>>of the story, all she could remember was that there had been a name
:>>from the Two Rivers.
:>This sound rather weak. You'd think she would've memorized the list,
:>or made copies, or had it tatooed on the bottom of her feet, or
:>something. That's an important thing to lose.
: Also, the list she had in NS did _not_ have a name from tTR on it.
: It had "Kari al'Thor. Husband Tamlin." Moi muses that they could
: have settled anywhere in the world.
I should note that I half-heard this information just at the very
beginning of the signing. I'm pretty sure I got it right, but I'd
appreciate it if y'all didn't lynch me if I missed a key qualifier.
Kate
--
http://www.concentric.net/~knepveu/ - The Paired Reading Page; Reviews
"Most days it's just stumbling around in the dark with the rest of
creation, smashing into things and wondering why it hurts."
--Lois McMaster Bujold, _Shards of Honor_
Kate Nepveu
: The poster formerly known as Kate Nepveu <kne...@concentric.net>
: wrote:
:>I should note that I half-heard this information just at the very
:>beginning of the signing. I'm pretty sure I got it right, but I'd
:>appreciate it if y'all didn't lynch me if I missed a key qualifier.
: Am I the only one who finds Kate using the word "y'all" to be vaguely
: disturbing?
What? It's a word with a useful function.
I assure you I haven't acquired a Southern drawl, if that's what's
bothering you...
Kenneth G. Cavness
says...
> Ari (aros...@tufts.edu) wrote:
>
> : I'm not sure about that. Didn't LTT simply fry himself when he overdosed on
> : OP? If I remember correctly, the prologue simply talks about him drawing in
> : power, and drawing in more and more power until he couldn't hold it all,
> : killing himself and raising the Dragonmount. Granted, it's been a while
> : since I read EotW, but I don't remember anything that hints about balefire
> : in there.
>
> describe balefire.
Searing white light?
Surely you don't mean to say that balefire is the only thing that has
that effect.
We also didn't see the colors-turned-inside-out situation that occurred
whenever balefire was used.
And we usually don't see big mountains arise when someone is balefired.
--
Kenneth G. Cavness
http://conan.proxicom.com/~kcavness/
"There's no need to impose the death penalty on stupidity. Just take all
the warning labels off of everything, and let the problem take care of
itself." -- Ryan Klippenstein, rasfwr-j
John S. Novak, III
<kcav...@proxicom.com> wrote:
>> It's described visually using the same kind of terms as he uses to
>> describe balefire.
>Searing white light?
>Surely you don't mean to say that balefire is the only thing that has
>that effect.
Don't be obtuse.
It _does_ look like Balefire.
And given the effects of Balefire, it would be emminently rational for
someone so apalled at the consequences of his actions to try and burn
himself back far enough to bring back his family, or even to undo the
strike.
>We also didn't see the colors-turned-inside-out situation that occurred
>whenever balefire was used.
'Cause the bar was thicker than his body.
>And we usually don't see big mountains arise when someone is balefired.
We usually don't see it pointed at the ground, either.
Regardless, Jordan has said authoritatively that Lewsy did _not_
attempt to Balefire himself. Why, I don't know. But that's the only
reason I wouldn't think it was Balefire.
--
John S. Novak, III j...@concentric.net
Richard M. Boye'
>
> Lara Beaton <lbe...@west.raytheon.com.SPAMCATCHER> wrote:
> : The poster formerly known as Kate Nepveu <kne...@concentric.net>
> : wrote:
>
> :>I should note that I half-heard this information just at the very
> :>beginning of the signing. I'm pretty sure I got it right, but I'd
> :>appreciate it if y'all didn't lynch me if I missed a key qualifier.
>
> : Am I the only one who finds Kate using the word "y'all" to be vaguely
> : disturbing?
>
> What? It's a word with a useful function.
Indeed. I'm about as Yankee as they come, but it does serve a purpose
and nicely expresses a plural sentiment.
It's started to creep into my written vocabulary as well.
> I assure you I haven't acquired a Southern drawl, if that's what's
> bothering you...
Nah. I didn't acquire a drawl when I was in DC either. Even down there,
you're still surrounded by people who speak normally. I assume your
office is populated by Northerners
Although I _did_ acquire a brogue when I was in Galway for a semester. I
was sorry to see it go. Now I've reverted to my rapid Brooklyn patois.
--
Richard M. Boye' * wa...@webspan.net
* http://www.webspan.net/~waldo/ * ICQ:9021244
"In the circus of life, sometimes if you taunt the bearded
lady long enough, she'll just throw prizes at you."
Richard M. Boye'
>
> In article <73d5k1$k...@chronicle.concentric.net>,
> Kate Nepveu <kne...@concentric.net> wrote:
> >Lara Beaton <lbe...@west.raytheon.com.SPAMCATCHER> wrote:
>
> >: Am I the only one who finds Kate using the word "y'all" to be vaguely
> >: disturbing?
> >
> >What? It's a word with a useful function.
>
> frequently. Sometimes, it can even be paired with a noun, as in "Yous
> kids get back here!"
Well there is our local variant "youse," which basically comes up as
follows:
When addressing a group "I had enough outta youse." Or maybe "Does any
of youse wanna go grab a pizza?"
Kenneth G. Cavness
says...
> On Mon, 23 Nov 1998 22:31:15 -0500, Kenneth G. Cavness
> <kcav...@proxicom.com> wrote:
>
> >> It's described visually using the same kind of terms as he uses to
> >> describe balefire.
>
> >Searing white light?
>
> >Surely you don't mean to say that balefire is the only thing that has
> >that effect.
>
> Don't be obtuse.
> It _does_ look like Balefire.
I thought that, vaguely, when I reread that portion a week ago (I'm
rereading the series again. I think I'm going to have to revise my
favorites list, _again_. I'm finding _The Eye of the World_ to be
much more interesting now that I'm reading it slowly than I found
it to be in 1995.), but when the book sort of "pans out" to show
the aftereffects, it doesn't look like balefire at all to me.
I'm not intending to be obtuse, really. I am simply trying to point
out that searing white light, and the fact that it was a focused
beam, appear to be the only similarities.
> And given the effects of Balefire, it would be emminently rational for
> someone so apalled at the consequences of his actions to try and burn
> himself back far enough to bring back his family, or even to undo the
> strike.
It'd be rational, but I have sincere doubts
> >We also didn't see the colors-turned-inside-out situation that occurred
> >whenever balefire was used.
>
> 'Cause the bar was thicker than his body.
Have we seen Balefire thicker than one's body? Can we be certain that you
don't still see the same effect?
> >And we usually don't see big mountains arise when someone is balefired.
>
> We usually don't see it pointed at the ground, either.
...or at the person that called the balefire.
> Regardless, Jordan has said authoritatively that Lewsy did _not_
> attempt to Balefire himself. Why, I don't know. But that's the only
> reason I wouldn't think it was Balefire.
I never really thought it was. *shrug*
Kenneth G. Cavness
kcav...@proxicom.com says...[snip]
> > And given the effects of Balefire, it would be emminently rational for
> > someone so apalled at the consequences of his actions to try and burn
> > himself back far enough to bring back his family, or even to undo the
> > strike.
>
> It'd be rational, but I have sincere doubts
Er.
It'd be rational, but I have sincere doubts that people can balefire
themselves. It's a paradox worthy of Timmy, and I don't even want to
think about it, much less think about the possibility that Jordan
invented the conundrum before page 1.
John S. Novak, III
>I'm sure that I'm not the only person who just uses 'you' as a plural and
>counts on readers knowing the context. I can't be the only one with a
>parent who has an English degree...
Yeah, yeah, and did they teach you to not split an infinitive?
Sorry, but sometimes, it is not only desireable but necessary to split
an infinitive. Likewise, the linguistic errors of the past centuries
shall not prevent me from doing my part to bring back the distinct
second person plural.
Joe Shaw
> On 23 Nov 1998 09:30:52 -0500, Joe Shaw <joe...@oh.krunk.org> wrote:
> >> Or would this have been too presumptuous?
> >Quite so.
> Spoiler protection for book nine speculations, Joe?
<mode high-horse=ON>
There was no spoiler protection, because I removed the spoilers,
so there were no spoilers to protect. Besides, the details
removed were not specificallly relevant to the point of my post.
The spoiler in question was that type that indicated specifically
that XX did NOT occur in POD. That's on the same order as "Charter
Y is not in POD!" Technically, that's a spoiler, because it could
conceivably ruin the suspense for some person who is really hoping
that Y appears, or XX occurs, in POD.
<mode high-horse=OFF>
(Even I don't believe my own ramblings any more.)
> I think that's a bit excessive.
Quite so.
It was 3:30am, I was tired, and I'd already wasted way too much time
reading and posting. I erred on the side of caution. <shrug>
- Joe
John S. Novak, III
>It was 3:30am, I was tired, and I'd already wasted way too much time
>reading and posting. I erred on the side of caution. <shrug>
I'll buy that.
Jim Hill
>
>[T]he linguistic errors of the past centuries
>shall not prevent me from doing my part to bring back the distinct
>second person plural.
And may God be with thee.
Lara Beaton
wrote:
>I should note that I half-heard this information just at the very
>beginning of the signing. I'm pretty sure I got it right, but I'd
>appreciate it if y'all didn't lynch me if I missed a key qualifier.
Am I the only one who finds Kate using the word "y'all" to be vaguely
disturbing?
--
Lara Beaton (remove SPAMCATCHER to reply)
The opinions expressed are not those of
International Airspace Management Systems.
"Maybe that analogy is a stretch. But just maybe I've done exhaustive
studies of Chihuahua work habits and discovered that a truckload of
Chihuahuas is the least productive organizational size."
Ranma Al'Thor
: I'm not sure about that. Didn't LTT simply fry himself when he overdosed on
: OP? If I remember correctly, the prologue simply talks about him drawing in
: power, and drawing in more and more power until he couldn't hold it all,
: killing himself and raising the Dragonmount. Granted, it's been a while
: since I read EotW, but I don't remember anything that hints about balefire
: in there.
It's described visually using the same kind of terms as he uses to
describe balefire.
--
Konrad J Gaertner
: On 23 Nov 1998 21:56:40 GMT, Rachel K. Warren <warr...@falcon.jmu.edu> wrote:
:>We looked in the glosseries, and for some it just doesn't help much.
And some names aren't in the glossaries (like Shiaine).
: Actually, this is true.
: For Nynaeve, it helped me.
That's one of the names that make me regret looking in the glossary for
pronounciations. If he wanted it that way, why didn't he spell it that
way? Same goes for the names where 'S' is pronounced 'SH'.
: For Aes Sedai, I wondered for a while whether Aes was one syllable or
: two, because the glossaries don't follow standard dictionary-type
: pronunciation guides.
Nothing like defining something in a custom code that is never published.
--KG
Mike Kozlowski
Kate Nepveu <kne...@concentric.net> wrote:
>Lara Beaton <lbe...@west.raytheon.com.SPAMCATCHER> wrote:
>: Am I the only one who finds Kate using the word "y'all" to be vaguely
>: disturbing?
>
>What? It's a word with a useful function.
A function served equally well by "yous," a word my mom's family uses
frequently. Sometimes, it can even be paired with a noun, as in "Yous
kids get back here!"
--
Michael Kozlowski m...@cs.wisc.edu
Recommended SF (Updated 10/9): http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~mlk/sfbooks.html
Annette Dilick
Kozlowski) wrote:
>In article <73d5k1$k...@chronicle.concentric.net>,
>Kate Nepveu <kne...@concentric.net> wrote:
>>Lara Beaton <lbe...@west.raytheon.com.SPAMCATCHER> wrote:
>
>>: Am I the only one who finds Kate using the word "y'all" to be vaguely
>>: disturbing?
>>
>>What? It's a word with a useful function.
>A function served equally well by "yous," a word my mom's family uses
>frequently. Sometimes, it can even be paired with a noun, as in "Yous
>kids get back here!"
How about "you'uns"? I hadn't heard this until I visited
Pennsylvania.
Dave Rothgery
Mike Kozlowski wrote in message <73d6q0$p46$1...@news.doit.wisc.edu>...
>In article <73d5k1$k...@chronicle.concentric.net>,
>Kate Nepveu <kne...@concentric.net> wrote:
>>Lara Beaton <lbe...@west.raytheon.com.SPAMCATCHER> wrote:
>
>>: Am I the only one who finds Kate using the word "y'all" to be vaguely
>>: disturbing?
>>
>>What? It's a word with a useful function.
>
>A function served equally well by "yous," a word my mom's family uses
>frequently. Sometimes, it can even be paired with a noun, as in "Yous
>kids get back here!"
I'm sure that I'm not the only person who just uses 'you' as a plural and
counts on readers knowing the context. I can't be the only one with a
parent who has an English degree...
--
Dave Rothgery WPI CS 1998
dave...@altavista.net http://www.wpi.edu/~daveroth/
Programmer for hire, no reasonable offer refused
John Dilick
(Lara Beaton) proclaimed to the teeming masses:
>The poster formerly known as Kate Nepveu <kne...@concentric.net>
>wrote:
>
>>I should note that I half-heard this information just at the very
>>beginning of the signing. I'm pretty sure I got it right, but I'd
>>appreciate it if y'all didn't lynch me if I missed a key qualifier.
>
>Am I the only one who finds Kate using the word "y'all" to be vaguely
>disturbing?
She acquired it by osmosis from Annette and I. Sorry about that.
--
John Dilick dili...@home.com
If at first you don't succeed, cheat. Cheat until caught, then lie.
Cassandra
>On 24 Nov 1998 02:48:32 GMT, mkoz...@norman.ssc.wisc.edu (Mike
>Kozlowski) wrote:
>
>>In article <73d5k1$k...@chronicle.concentric.net>,
>>Kate Nepveu <kne...@concentric.net> wrote:
>>>Lara Beaton <lbe...@west.raytheon.com.SPAMCATCHER> wrote:
>>
>>>: Am I the only one who finds Kate using the word "y'all" to be vaguely
>>>: disturbing?
>>>
>>>What? It's a word with a useful function.
>
>
>>A function served equally well by "yous," a word my mom's family uses
>>frequently. Sometimes, it can even be paired with a noun, as in "Yous
>>kids get back here!"
>
>How about "you'uns"? I hadn't heard this until I visited
>Pennsylvania.
One of my friends is from Pennsylvania. The first time she said that,
it took fifteen minutes and a lot of explaining before I figured out
what the hell she was trying to say.
--
Cassandra
"I don't think war is noble.
And I don't like to think love is like war."
-Ani DiFranco, "Independence Day"
Cassandra
>Kate Nepveu wrote:
>>
<Kate using "y'all>
>
>
>> I assure you I haven't acquired a Southern drawl, if that's what's
>> bothering you...
>
>Nah. I didn't acquire a drawl when I was in DC either. Even down there,
>you're still surrounded by people who speak normally. I assume your
>office is populated by Northerners
>
>Although I _did_ acquire a brogue when I was in Galway for a semester. I
>was sorry to see it go. Now I've reverted to my rapid Brooklyn patois.
The combination is frightening.
I would go to Scotland or Ireland for a couple years *just* to get the
brogue. It would be cool living there, but the accent would be so much
fun. Especially in the States. (Especially if I dye my hair red again
and I can totally pass for Celtic.)
Kenneth G. Cavness
> On Tue, 24 Nov 1998 01:54:25 GMT, lbe...@west.raytheon.com.SPAMCATCHER
> (Lara Beaton) proclaimed to the teeming masses:
> >Am I the only one who finds Kate using the word "y'all" to be vaguely
> >disturbing?
>
> She acquired it by osmosis from Annette and I. Sorry about that.
You three must have been pretty damn cozy when you were...er...
together.
--
Kenneth G. Cavness
http://conan.proxicom.com/~kcavness/
Matthew Hunter
>Kate, myself, and the Dilicks attended. The signing began at 1:00 PM.
>We showed up separately between 11:00 and 11:30 AM to find ourselves
>close to the front of the line. Such paranoia was justified, as the
>line grew very swiftly and to great length.
>
>As the time approached, the cafe area was cleared and chairs set up
>auditorium style so that those of us who had been waiting were able to
>sit down and enjoy. This was cool. Those of us in the cafe area
>(andmaybe others) were also given a complimentary cup of spiced
>cider-- to bring to mind the idea of having a mug mulled wine in front
>of us. This was cool. There was also an amazing-looking layered
They wined and dined you guys. Huh.
>Balefire: I'm right. (This was my question) What this means is, if
>someone is Balefire, the Dark One can't reincarnate them. But they
>CAN be spun back out into the wheel as normal. Balefire is NOT the
>eternal death of the soul. He also made a comment to the effect that
>even in the absence of balefire, there may be circumstances where the
>Dark One cannot bring someone back. There was a long line, so I
>didn't press.
Interesting.
>The Bowl: Someone asked him whether, if men had helped the Aes Sedai
>and Windfinders and Kin channel through the Bowl, the One Power would
>still have been screwed up. His implicit assumption was that the Bowl
>screwed things up. I expected this to be a sheer RAFO. I was
>surprised. He went into a relatively detailed explanation to the
>effect that the Bowl was stressed far, far beyond its original design
>parameters because of the advanced knowledge of the Windfinders. It
>was affecting a global pattern, when it was designed for only a small
>region. Men helping would not have changed anything, and the effects
>linger most strongly near Ebou Dar, but also along the "spokes" which
>radiated from that place. (I should have asked if a spoke went out
>over Tear.) My comment: Nyah-nyah.
Hmm. Nice to have it confirmed.
>Moiraine lost her list sometime between NS and tEotW. By the opening
>of the story, all she could remember was that there had been a name
>from the Two Rivers.
At least this is cleared up.
>At one point, he looked at me and added (with no prompting or
>questioning) that no, Mat is not Cyndane. He explained that at
>another Signing, he had a string of ten or so people in a row ask him
>about Mat, and he got frustrated and belted out, "What if Mat is
>Cyndane?" He claimed he then recanted, but couldn't tell if the guy
>he told that too believed that he was joking. I admitted that I had
>heard the story, but it was okay-- we got the joke. He then added
>that while he likes Chalker's and Varley's works, he does not intend
>to emulate them. "Not at all like Balthamel becoming Aran'gar?" I
>quipped. He retorted to the effect that was one character, not a
>whole host of characters.
That sounds like the Louisville signing I was at. At the time, he made
the comment, once in exasperation, once later (followed by "any crazy
rumors I can start on the 'net are good"). I figured it was a joke,
but at the time I was scribbling rapidly, so my grin was probably not
too apparant. Or perhaps he took it to mean I thought I had a real
bombshell to drop...
>Asmodean is, and I quote, road-kill. And he still claims there are
>many indirect clues from tFoH on about who killed him. He also claims
>that very, very few of the fan letters he gets are correct about it.
So I suppose we can put to rest theories about him being Moridin or
Cyndane or whatever now. Good.
>(RAFO sometimes means that he intends to reveal it later. Sometimes
>it means that an answer is not consequential, but it's logical
>implications ARE consequential.)
He said this in longer form at the Louisville signing as well.
>His plans have not signifigantly altered from the time of conception.
>No major scenes have been inserted or left out or substantially
>altered.
Hmm. I don't think anything with Cadsuane counts as a major scene so
far. I wonder if it would be worthwhile to try to identify those
scenes?
>There were a lot of amusing personal remarks as well, which I won't
>try to capture. He seems to have a half a dozen answers for the
>question, "Where do you get your ideas?" The one that tickled me was
>that he sends off to a mail order company from Trenton New, Jersey (I
>think) for some large amount of money, at three ideas per page. I
>looked askance and remarked that Ellison gave the same answer, except
>his ideas came from a warehouse in Peoria (which I'm sure I've read
>somewhere. Think it was Ellison.) He shot back, "Yeah, but did you
>notice that mine are more expensive?"
This is a pretty standard writer's answer. Stephen King has used it,
and probably several others.
--
Matthew Hunter (mhu...@andrew.cmu.edu)
Matthew Hunter
>> The way I always thought of it was
>>that the threads on the front of the Pattern were living, and the
>>threads on the back were 'not currently spun out'. Also, it then
>>made sense that being balefired in Tel'aran'rhiod killed you no
>>matter which reality you came from.
>
>It's a metaphor, but don't take it too far.
>
>Threads are very explicitly a function of living human beings. A soul
>being born into the world associates a new thread with a soul. This
>is probably some automatic process so that when Birgitte was thrown
>into the real world by Moghedien, a thread was automatically created
>for her.
This makes more sense to me if you assume that Birgitte did NOT have a
thread when she was thrown into the world, and as a result was dying.
When Elayne bonded her, Birgitte becomes "linked" in some fashion to
Elayne's thread, and thus can continue to live.
--
Matthew Hunter (mhu...@andrew.cmu.edu)
Kate Nepveu
:> bothering you...
: Nah. I didn't acquire a drawl when I was in DC either. Even down there,
: you're still surrounded by people who speak normally. I assume your
: office is populated by Northerners
Well, we do have one staffer who gets _very_ Southern on occasion. I pick
up patterns of speech easily, so it's tricky.
: Although I _did_ acquire a brogue when I was in Galway for a semester. I
: was sorry to see it go. Now I've reverted to my rapid Brooklyn patois.
I picked up a bit of a London accent myself. I can't say "tea" anymore
without doing something un-American to the vowels... =>
Kate Nepveu
:> On Tue, 24 Nov 1998 01:54:25 GMT, lbe...@west.raytheon.com.SPAMCATCHER
:> (Lara Beaton) proclaimed to the teeming masses:
:> >Am I the only one who finds Kate using the word "y'all" to be vaguely
:> >disturbing?
:> She acquired it by osmosis from Annette and I. Sorry about that.
Nonsense. I've been using it for quite a while, even before I came to DC.
: You three must have been pretty damn cozy when you were...er...
: together.
Aren't you sorry you missed the signing, now?
I think we freaked out the Borders customers by commandering a corner of
their carpet and getting comfy...
John M. Atkinson
>The poster formerly known as Kate Nepveu <kne...@concentric.net>
>wrote:
>
>>I should note that I half-heard this information just at the very
>>beginning of the signing. I'm pretty sure I got it right, but I'd
>>appreciate it if y'all didn't lynch me if I missed a key qualifier.
>
>Am I the only one who finds Kate using the word "y'all" to be vaguely
>disturbing?
I usually spell it ya'll, but other than that, it is a discussion of a
signing in Virginia, which means people who speak English the way God
meant it to be spoken could have been present, and what's wrong with
using a little vernacular in one's Usenet posts? Mark Twain put it in
books, and he's considered a genius.
John M. Atkinson
nospam becomes erols to reply
What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly. . .
it would be strange indeed if so celestial an article as
FREEDOM should not be highly rated.
--Thomas Jefferson
Amy Gray
>>
>>
>>> I assure you I haven't acquired a Southern drawl, if that's what's
>>> bothering you...
>>
>>Nah. I didn't acquire a drawl when I was in DC either. Even down
there,
>>you're still surrounded by people who speak normally. I assume your
>>office is populated by Northerners
>>
I
>>was sorry to see it go. Now I've reverted to my rapid Brooklyn patois.
>
>
>I would go to Scotland or Ireland for a couple years *just* to get the
>brogue. It would be cool living there, but the accent would be so much
>fun. Especially in the States. (Especially if I dye my hair red again
>and I can totally pass for Celtic.)
I've been known to pick up a brogue just from watching _Braveheart._
And I already have red hair . . .
Jim Hill
>>Am I the only one who finds Kate using the word "y'all" to be vaguely
>>disturbing?
>
>I usually spell it ya'll [...]
[...] which is incorrect, seeing as y'all is a contraction of "you all."
Jim, colloquialism pedant
--
jim...@swcp.com http://www.swcp.com/~jimhill/
Aaron Bergman
>
>I've been known to pick up a brogue just from watching _Braveheart._
>And I already have red hair . . .
Sort of similar to the desire to put "motherfucker" into every
sentence after watching Pulp Fiction, I guess.
Aaron
--
Aaron Bergman
<http://www.princeton.edu/~abergman/>
Cassandra
aber...@princeton.edu (Aaron Bergman) wrote:
>In article <73elpr$8...@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net>, Amy Gray wrote:
>>
>>I've been known to pick up a brogue just from watching _Braveheart._
>>And I already have red hair . . .
>
>Sort of similar to the desire to put "motherfucker" into every
>sentence after watching Pulp Fiction, I guess.
I have actually had both of these happen. (Not at the same time, but
it would be fun.)
Last week, on the online version of The Onion, they had the list of
top 10 things we hope Samuel L. Jackson doesn't say in the new Star
Wars movie. All along the lines of "Does Jabba the Hutt look like a
bitch? Then why are you trying to fuck him like one?", "You're sending
the Fett? Shit, Hutt, that's all you had to say!"
Kenneth G. Cavness
says...
[snip]
> : You three must have been pretty damn cozy when you were...er...
> : together.
>
> Aren't you sorry you missed the signing, now?
I was sorry when I heard about it.
By some strange sort of confluence of the stars, the past three
gettogethers of RASFWRJarians have been occurring at precisely the
time when forays into my pocket produce the odd bit of lint and
used Troja^W^W[1], rather than nice, cold, hard cash[2].
It hasn't helped that my glasses broke in a rather spectacular way
this last paycheck[3], and that the SoundBlaster Live!(tm) came out.
And I had no real advance warning of the VA signing, since I hadn't
had time to read the group much, since I was reading PoD.
Bad luck all around.
(That, and I caught your message at 11:30, when I woke up).
> I think we freaked out the Borders customers by commandering a corner of
> their carpet and getting comfy...
From what I hear, you at least frightened the guard a bit...
--
Kenneth G. Cavness
http://conan.proxicom.com/~kcavness/
"There's no need to impose the death penalty on stupidity. Just take all
the warning labels off of everything, and let the problem take care of
itself." -- Ryan Klippenstein, rasfwr-j
[1] How'd that get in there?!
[2] Or, at the very least, my debit card.
[3] Ok, here's the story. My glasses were over two years old, so they
were due for a little time in the Wear and Tear department, and I fully
expected to have to replace them. However, the weekend before my
next paycheck, the screw pops out of my left hand lens frame. And falls
into the garbage disposal in my kitchen. I don't want to do the geek
thing, and I hardly have a stash of very small screws lying around the
house, so I sort of prop the lens in the frame and deal with it popping
out from time to time. Two days later, as I'm flushing the toilet, the
lens pops out and falls into the commode. No _way_ am I going in after
_that_. Then, the right leg of the frame falls off at the exact same
moment. So I do without. That Tuesday I go to Hour Eyes in Reston, pick
out a pair of frames that have the Flexor metal, where you can bend
them every which way. $400 total for the visit, prescription, lenses,
and frames.
Pat O'Connell
>
> In article <365A29...@webspan.net>, wa...@webspan.net wrote:
>
> >Kate Nepveu wrote:
> >
> <Kate using "y'all>
> >Although I _did_ acquire a brogue when I was in Galway for a semester. I
> >was sorry to see it go. Now I've reverted to my rapid Brooklyn patois.
>
> The combination is frightening.
>
> I would go to Scotland or Ireland for a couple years *just* to get the
> brogue. It would be cool living there, but the accent would be so much
> fun. Especially in the States. (Especially if I dye my hair red again
> and I can totally pass for Celtic.)
I got news for ya. My grandfather, who was "pure Irish," was BLOND.
'Course, there might of been a Viking in the woodpile somewhere...
We're not even talking about the Alsatian part of the family here (for
Boye's information).
--
Pat O'Connell
Take nothing but pictures, Leave nothing but footprints,
Kill nothing but vandals...
John S. Novak, III
>>One of my friends is from Pennsylvania. The first time she said that,
>>it took fifteen minutes and a lot of explaining before I figured out
>>what the hell she was trying to say.
>i encountered "yinz guys" in pittsburgh.
Sorry, but Pennsylvania, even more than some isolated and inbred
corners of the Deep South, is an absolute sinkhole of grammatical
inanities.
These are people who, when the printer breaks, say that it "Needs
fixed." These are the people who offer up the previously mentioned
"Yinz guys." I'm fairly certain they indulge in "my bad," as well.
Rope the state off and start the fires, people.
--
John S. Novak, III j...@concentric.net
isolate
(Cassandra) wrote:
>>
>>How about "you'uns"? I hadn't heard this until I visited
>>Pennsylvania.
>
>One of my friends is from Pennsylvania. The first time she said that,
>it took fifteen minutes and a lot of explaining before I figured out
>what the hell she was trying to say.
i encountered "yinz guys" in pittsburgh. it got very old after a
while. most strange was the question "yinz guys from england?" huh?
try northern Va transplanted to richmond, didn't know we had british
accents down here.
isolate
John M. Atkinson
>John M. Atkinson wrote:
>
>>>Am I the only one who finds Kate using the word "y'all" to be vaguely
>>>disturbing?
>>
>>I usually spell it ya'll [...]
>
>[...] which is incorrect, seeing as y'all is a contraction of "you all."
And now I know. I shall endeavor to correct my erring ways, y'all.
Michael Bruce
>Sorry, but Pennsylvania, even more than some isolated and inbred
>corners of the Deep South, is an absolute sinkhole of grammatical
>inanities.
Ouch. I think you've just insulted the grammer of the good people of
Pennsylvania in the deepest way possible. Well, I guess you could've
compared their grammer to that of Chicagoans, but that would've been
just cruel.
>These are people who, when the printer breaks, say that it "Needs
>fixed." These are the people who offer up the previously mentioned
>"Yinz guys." I'm fairly certain they indulge in "my bad," as well.
I can't even figure out what "yinz guys" is supposed to sound like.
>Rope the state off and start the fires, people.
Won't the ropes burn, too?
On a related note, the Good People of Wisconsin need to learn how to
pronounce the name of their state correctly. Hint: there is an "i"
between the "W" and the "s".
--
Michael Bruce | mab...@students.wisc.edu
Bunnythor
>On a related note, the Good People of Wisconsin need to learn how to
>pronounce the name of their state correctly. Hint: there is an "i"
>between the "W" and the "s".
As much as I would like to further the cause of regional linguo-fascism, I ask
that you desist badgering the Wisconsinners. For if you succeed in re-educating
them, then you will doubtless start trying to tell the Montanans that there are
*2* a's in Montana, and that the first should be pronounced too. Go ahead. You
just try to tell a real Montanan that zer state isn't pronounced "MONT-nuh".
I'll be interested in hearing the reaction.
--Tshen
Qodaxti Institute, 87th stratum
Michael Bruce
>Michael the Bruce wrote:
Er? People actually called me this in grade school (well, "The
Bruce", actually). Got shortened to just the last name in high
school; I rather missed being a "the", though.
I have to say, I've never heard a Montanan say "Montana". I'm
guessing this is because the number of native Montanans is so
vanishingly tiny, that meeting one has a similar probability to
getting struck by lightning.
Therefore, to challenge the linguistic skills of a native of the Empty
State would require more effort than I'm willing to put out. I'd have
to be dropped off at the edge of the state, where the road ends. Then
I'd have to wander through the scenic and savage wilderness which
comprises the body of the state, until I came across telltale signs of
human occupation. Then, I'd have to track those signs down to the
fortified shack that would inevitably be the 'home' of one of these
people. After assuring the individual that I was not, in fact, from
the FBI, I'd have to then determine if the Montanan was a native, or
fleeing from jack-booted government thugs of some type. If the latter
be the case, I'd have to get away from the most probably
companionship-starved Montanan, and set out to find another. If the
former, then I'd have to interrogate him on his English without
raising in him ire sufficient to throw him into sudden and messy
firearm-facilitated violence.
I don't think I've got the time, really[1].
[1] Actually, I do have the time. I can't make it home for
thanksgiving, so I'm stuck in Madison with nothing to do. And nowhere
to eat, even. Not that Montana would be an improvement. And, finding
people in Montana might take more than the four days I've got.
--
Michael Bruce | mab...@students.wisc.edu
"Stormy pinkness / Set me thanklessly free"
-TMBG
Dave Rothgery
Michael Bruce wrote in message ...
>On a related note, the Good People of Wisconsin need to learn how to
>pronounce the name of their state correctly. Hint: there is an "i"
>between the "W" and the "s".
Must be those people from hicksville^WMadison. Where I lived ( Kenosha,
just north of the Illinois border), the 'i' was pronounced.
Konrad J Gaertner
: Therefore, to challenge the linguistic skills of a native of the Empty
: State would require more effort than I'm willing to put out. I'd have
: to be dropped off at the edge of the state, where the road ends. Then
Actually, Montana has roads; just no speed limits. You've seen the quote
about kiling all the idiots by removing safety labels? Montana is proof
it works.
--KG
Kate Nepveu
: says...
:> I think we freaked out the Borders customers by commandering a corner of
:> their carpet and getting comfy...
: From what I hear, you at least frightened the guard a bit...
This I don't recall.
Donal K. Fellows
> Cassandra wrote:
>> I would go to Scotland or Ireland for a couple years *just* to get the
>> brogue. It would be cool living there, but the accent would be so much
>> fun. Especially in the States. (Especially if I dye my hair red again
>> and I can totally pass for Celtic.)
If you're after incomprehensibility, try picking up Geordie (i.e. the
Queen's Tongue as spoken around Newcastle upon Tyne.)
[elided]
> We're not even talking about the Alsatian part of the family here (for
> Boye's information).
Part of your family are dogs?
Donal.
--
Donal K. Fellows http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/ fell...@cs.man.ac.uk
Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, U.K. +44-161-275-6137
--
If you staple a penguin to the head of a gnu, the result won't catch herring...
Scott Spiegelberg
[snip Pennsylvania and Chicago linguistics]
> On a related note, the Good People of Wisconsin need to learn how to
> pronounce the name of their state correctly. Hint: there is an "i"
> between the "W" and the "s".
>
As a former resident of that lovely state for 22 years, I have to disagree
with your analysis of our pronunciation. We "Good People" do pronounce
the "i", it just doesn't seem strong because of the incredibly nasal "o":
Wis-CAAAHN-sin.
Wisconsin trivia: Take away all letters that occur twice in Wisconsin,
and you're left with "cow".
*******************************************************************************
Scott Spiegelberg
Trumpeter + Theorist = Musician
Eastman School of Music
spi...@theory.esm.rochester.edu
716-454-0208
*******************************************************************************
Cassandra
>Cassandra wrote:
>>
>> In article <365A29...@webspan.net>, wa...@webspan.net wrote:
>>
>> >Kate Nepveu wrote:
>> >
>> <Kate using "y'all>
>[snipitty]
>> >Although I _did_ acquire a brogue when I was in Galway for a semester. I
>> >was sorry to see it go. Now I've reverted to my rapid Brooklyn patois.
>>
>> The combination is frightening.
>>
>> I would go to Scotland or Ireland for a couple years *just* to get the
>> brogue. It would be cool living there, but the accent would be so much
>> fun. Especially in the States. (Especially if I dye my hair red again
>> and I can totally pass for Celtic.)
>
>I got news for ya. My grandfather, who was "pure Irish," was BLOND.
>'Course, there might of been a Viking in the woodpile somewhere...
Yes, I know, the Scottish side of my family is blonde, my friend who
recently moved from Glasgow is blonde.
With my coloring, I can't very well go blonde. And I wouldn't
particularly want to, in America.
I can, however, dye my hair red, which looks more natural, and makes
me look somewhat more Celtic, IMHO. (Although there are lots of Celts
with brown hair like mine, I like the red better. So there.)
Aaron Bergman
>On 25 Nov 1998 09:09:01 GMT, Michael Bruce <br...@news.doit.wisc.edu> wrote:
>
>>Ouch. I think you've just insulted the grammer of the good people of
>>Pennsylvania in the deepest way possible. Well, I guess you could've
>>compared their grammer to that of Chicagoans, but that would've been
>>just cruel.
>
>clap-trap on your part, I won't even bother to respond.
I suppose this isn't the same city with "go-thee" (soft th) street?
I found that quite amusing. Sort of like the Verdy valley and
Am-are-ill-oh Texas.
Richard M. Boye'
>
> Cassandra wrote:
> >
> > In article <365A29...@webspan.net>, wa...@webspan.net wrote:
> >
> > >Kate Nepveu wrote:
> > >
> > >Although I _did_ acquire a brogue when I was in Galway for a semester. I
> > >was sorry to see it go. Now I've reverted to my rapid Brooklyn patois.
> >
> > The combination is frightening.
Hey, hey, hey HEY! Just to clarify _what_ are you saying is frightning?
> We're not even talking about the Alsatian part of the family here (for
> Boye's information).
Yes, you and I are probably representative of the entire
Alsatian-American population. There's only like 100,000 of us in the
whole country.
--
Richard M. Boye' * wa...@webspan.net
* http://www.webspan.net/~waldo/ * ICQ:9021244
"In the circus of life, sometimes if you taunt the bearded
lady long enough, she'll just throw prizes at you."
Richard M. Boye'
[...]
> [elided]
> > We're not even talking about the Alsatian part of the family here (for
> > Boye's information).
>
> Part of your family are dogs?
Hey! We don't have to take that from a guy whose parents were stingy
with their "d's."
--
Richar M. Boye' * wa...@webspan.net
Richard Edwards
> These are people who, when the printer breaks, say that it "Needs
> fixed."
This isn't normal? Crap.
Later,
Richard
Mike Kozlowski
Nathan Lundblad <lund...@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:
>The big thing in the crowd I gamed with several years ago was to refer
>to all soft drinks as Cokes. Thus:
>
>Apparently this is not a localized phenomenon.
It is, like so many defective things, Southern in origin.
--
Michael Kozlowski m...@cs.wisc.edu
Recommended SF (Updated 10/9): http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~mlk/sfbooks.html
Richard M. Boye'
>
> And no one has even mentioned the whole "Pop" vs. "Soda" debate yet.
What debate?
"Pop" is clearly wrong.
And while we're on it, it's a "hero," not a "grinder," those are
"sprinkles," not "jimmies," those are "sneakers," not "tennys" and you
wait "_on_ line", not "_in_ line."
--
Richard M. Boye' * wa...@webspan.net
Mark Loy
Spiegelberg <spi...@theory.esm.rochester.edu> wrote:
> On 25 Nov 1998, Michael Bruce wrote:
>
> [snip Pennsylvania and Chicago linguistics]
> > On a related note, the Good People of Wisconsin need to learn how to
> > pronounce the name of their state correctly. Hint: there is an "i"
> > between the "W" and the "s".
> >
> As a former resident of that lovely state for 22 years, I have to disagree
> with your analysis of our pronunciation. We "Good People" do pronounce
> the "i", it just doesn't seem strong because of the incredibly nasal "o":
> Wis-CAAAHN-sin.
>
> Wisconsin trivia: Take away all letters that occur twice in Wisconsin,
> and you're left with "cow".
"Cow"...for the dairy state.
Man, I've got a shiver running up and down my spine the size of a shetland pony.
That's just too weird.
Of course, if you take out all the letters that occur twice in Indiana you
are left with 'd'...'d', for the Hoosier state.
Somehow, it fits.
ML
Nathan Lundblad
>And no one has even mentioned the whole "Pop" vs. "Soda" debate yet.
Or, as I have recently discovered here in Baahstun, "Tonic".
The big thing in the crowd I gamed with several years ago was to refer
to all soft drinks as Cokes. Thus:
"Git me a Coke, kid."
"What kind?"
"Dew, of course."
Apparently this is not a localized phenomenon.
--
Nathan Lundblad
lund...@alum.calberkeley.org
Richard M. Boye'
>
> In article <73hod1$rgo$1...@agate.berkeley.edu>,
> Nathan Lundblad <lund...@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:
>
> >to all soft drinks as Cokes. Thus:
> >
>
Like Newt Gingrich, Bill Clinton and Carrot-Top?
Nathan Lundblad
>Nathan Lundblad <lund...@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:
>>The big thing in the crowd I gamed with several years ago was to refer
>>to all soft drinks as Cokes. Thus:
>>Apparently this is not a localized phenomenon.
>It is, like so many defective things, Southern in origin.
Along with "if'n"? I first heard it on a Danzig record, didn't think
much of it, then was overdosed with 'em upon meeting a friend from one
of them thar states. Which one it was I can't recall.
And while we're at it, while Boston does have "tonic" and "wicked",
they most certainly do not have "hella". Yeesh.
"Man, she was hella fine."
"Yeah. And I'm hella drunk."
Yeehaw!
--
Nathan Lundblad
lund...@alum.calberkeley.org
Mike Kozlowski
Richard M. Boye' <wa...@webspan.net> wrote:
Oh, good. A regional dialect thread. Well, coming as I do from the only
part of the country where people don't speak funny[1], I feel obliged to
step in here and clear up Mr. Boye''s misconceptions.
>"Pop" is clearly wrong.
Perfectly acceptable, actually, if a bit informal.
>And while we're on it, it's a "hero," not a "grinder,"
It's a "sub." Anyone who says "hero" is trying unsuccessfully to say
"gyro", and someone who says "grinder" is talking about a guy with an
organ and a monkey.
>those are
>"sprinkles," not "jimmies,"
I don't even know what you're referring to here.
>those are "sneakers," not "tennys"
I believe that "tennies" is the preferred plural, although "tenny shoes"
is more common.
>and you
>wait "_on_ line", not "_in_ line."
Wrong again, Mr. Boye', unless people just mob about where you're from.
-Mike K., helpfully
[1] This is true, according to some book on dialects I read back in a high
school class, which stated that the northern-Midwest dialect was the
standard for national TV in America in the same way that Received
Pronunciation was standard in Britain.