Concord Signing Questions
Tom
very minor, but it is your choice if you continue
I arrived late at the book signing and it appeared that Robert had
already been drained by two questioners to the point where he was
responding to all their questions with, "Read the books".
I introduced myself as an internet user. I told him that some on the
net seemed to think that every other person was a darkfriend. He
replied, "I've heard". I told him that my feeling was that the
number of darkfriends in Randland were probably between 1 in 10,000
to 1 in 100,000. He replied, "closer to the later, of course we see
more of them because of the Ta'veren." I asked if there were fewer
amongst the Aiel than in the great cities. He responded, "Yes,
of course."
I asked if the Aiel attacks were done by the Shaido and their allies.
He responded, "If someone thinks otherwise, they should read the books."
I stated that 20 darkfriends would be a heavy investment to lose all
at once. Jordan replied, "Not at all. It's very easy for me to make
some more. It is their trustworthiness that is more of a problem."
I asked him to confirm that he had said that Rand will physically
lose his hand and that Mat will physically lose his eye. He stated,
"If I have said something similar to that, I may have misspoken."
[How is that for being enigmatic?]
We talked a bit about the Aiel culture. Robert constantly refered
to the Amer-Indian, Arab, and African cultures. In particular,
how come they don't show signs of being malnourished? "Belly dancers
live in the desert and yet, have been known to be full bodied. It
is the people who have had their fields burned that might be a little
malnourished."
Since he had read a lot of what the net had to say, I asked if the
%50 of our discussion that was way off, came under the heading of
looney ideas. He responded, "Read the books."
His last comment to me was, "I am going to leave you guys up in the
air in regards to Bela." Since I hadn't brought up the subject of
the B-one, I found this very suspicious.
- Tom Burke
PS This is from memory, not from tape.
Tom
: Spoilers follow (I am not sure for what)
:
: very minor, but it is your choice if you continue
:
: I arrived late at the book signing and it appeared that Robert had
: already been drained by two questioners to the point where he was
: responding to all their questions with, "Read the books".
One more answer:
We all know that use of the one power is not genetic, I asked Jordan
if there was some sort of conservation of talents, meaning was the
sum total of living people's ability to use the power and their talents
constant. He seemed to wince and said, "I have thought about it. <pause>
I don't know."
Perhaps if someone at a future signing phrased a similar question, we
might get a better glimpse. (I asked this question because of the
disappearance of Morraine and the subsequent discovery of her talent
of recognizing Ta'veren in another Aes Sedai.)
- Tom Burke
Aaron Bergman
:Tom (to...@tfs.com) wrote:
:: Spoilers follow (I am not sure for what)
::
:: very minor, but it is your choice if you continue
There's a spoiler here? I don't see one...
:One more answer:
:We all know that use of the one power is not genetic,
We do? How? Has Jordan said that?
Aaron
Andrea Lynn Leistra
>Tom (to...@tfs.com) wrote:
>: Spoilers follow (I am not sure for what)
>:
>: very minor, but it is your choice if you continue
>:
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>One more answer:
>We all know that use of the one power is not genetic,
We do???
I am fairly certain there is some heridtary aspect to channelling...how
else do you explain the declining numbers of women who can channel being
found by the Tower, and the comment that by gentling men who can channel
the AS are "culling" the trait out of the human race? Or the "White's mad
plan?" Obviously the AS think there is at least some heriditary aspect.
Or how do you explain the vast numbers of channellers in the TR, a rather
isolated and inbred area that, when it was Manetheren, was pretty strong
in the Power?
Making blanket statements like this in the absence of overwheliming
evidence is ususally not a good idea.
Aviendha
Visualize Whirled Peas
Bradley Smith
Aaron Bergman <aber...@minerva.cis.yale.edu> wrote:
How indeed? Have we seen anyone be able to wield the OP who
wasn't initially capable of learning or actually would start using it?
No, we haven't. That alone fuels the presumption that OP Use is
genetically based. I may have to ask that Tuesday, just to be sure.
Brad
--
************************************************************************
*The Few....The Proud....The Puppybrothers! Bradley N. Smith *
* Look for a recruiter near you! har...@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu*
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Osan'gar
: to...@tfs.com (Tom) skribis en lastatempa afisxo <CyGFD...@tfs.com>:
: >Spoilers follow (I am not sure for what)
: Neither am I. Spoiler protection deleted.
: >very minor, but it is your choice if you continue
: Not any more. :-)
: >
: >I asked him to confirm that he had said that Rand will physically
: >lose his hand and that Mat will physically lose his eye. He stated,
: >"If I have said something similar to that, I may have misspoken."
: >[How is that for being enigmatic?]
: I've been following these discussions for a year and a half now. It seems
: to be cumulative net.wisdom that Rand will lose his hand and Mat will lose
: his (left?) eye. In six books, however, I don't remember Jordan ever
: stating as much; and I don't remember anybody on the net ever quoting
: him as saying this. Did I miss something, people?
IIRC, the reference was to his affirmative answer to "Is Rand similar to Tew
(sp?) on purpose?" (Tew lost a hand, hence the reason for the question)
and "Is Mat similar to Odin on purpose?"
--Jared "Osan'gar" Samet
: Don HARLOW do...@netcom.com
Don HARLOW
>
>I asked him to confirm that he had said that Rand will physically
>lose his hand and that Mat will physically lose his eye. He stated,
>"If I have said something similar to that, I may have misspoken."
>[How is that for being enigmatic?]
>
to be cumulative net.wisdom that Rand will lose his hand and Mat will lose
his (left?) eye. In six books, however, I don't remember Jordan ever
stating as much; and I don't remember anybody on the net ever quoting
him as saying this. Did I miss something, people?
--
Don HARLOW do...@netcom.com
Esperanto League for N.A. el...@netcom.com (800) 828-5944
ftp://ftp.netcom.com/pub/elna/elna.html Esperanto
ftp://ftp.netcom.com/pub/donh/donh.html
Carolyn Fusinato
>
>I've been following these discussions for a year and a half now. It seems
>to be cumulative net.wisdom that Rand will lose his hand and Mat will lose
>his (left?) eye. In six books, however, I don't remember Jordan ever
>stating as much; and I don't remember anybody on the net ever quoting
>him as saying this. Did I miss something, people?
Nothing indicates that Rand will loose specifically HIS hand except the
fact that the vision around Elayne of a severed hand is specifically
mentioned as not hers. Rand's hand (which is bloody, not severed)
isn't mentioned as not being his.
I could swear that one of the signing attendies said that Jordan
said that Rand would loose his hand. I can't seem to find it, so
I guess not. I'm sure I read that somewhere, though.
OK, as for the eye, many of the prophetic passages strung together make
a convincing case that Mat will loose his eye, specifically the left
one (side note, Jordan was not admitted to West Point due to poor
vision in his left eye...coincidense? I think not.).
Egwene dreams:
<TDR, Chapter 25, Questions, pp233-234>
"...placing his own left eye on a balance scale"
Indicates that his left eye is payment for something (hmmm.
wonder what?)
<FOH, Chapter 15, What Can Be Learned In Dreams, p214>
"...throwing dice with blood streaming down his
face, the wide brim of his hat pulled low so she could not
see his wound..."
This is mentioned as occuring while Thom is pulling
Moiraine's blue jewel from a fire. This indicates to me that
he will return to Eelfinnland through the Tower of Ghenjei
with Thom and loose his eye at that time.
Min's visions:
<EOW, Chapter 17, Watchers and Hunters, p181>
"...an eye on a balance scale..."
Aelfinn visions:
"...To give up half the light of the world to save the world!..."
Neat way of saying Mat will loose an eye. Moiraine
-Carolyn Fusinato: Editor of the WoT Club newsletter, _The Chronicles_.
E-mail your postal address to me at c.fus...@mail.utexas.edu for a
free sample. Submissions are always welcome. E-mail for more information.
Ask about WoT Club stuff in the ftp site, too!
Rogelio Antonio Padilla
The use of the one power doesn't have to be either genetic or environmental,
if people can be Reborn into different bodies at random, then that doesn't
follow either pattern. I don't think Mat is related by blood to any of the
dozens of people he has in his head, which he would have to be for that to
be genetic, and Rand isn't descendant from Lews Therin, that we know of.
So maybe the Creator just touches the Pattern at random, adding the
ability in no particular order to no one in particular, with varying
strengths that have nothing to do with inheritance. Randland science doesn't
have to follow ours, even if it's supposed to be Earth at one time, it's still
fantasy.
Anthony "Shadowkiller" Padilla
rpad...@princeton.edu
Rogelio Antonio Padilla
>to...@tfs.com (Tom) skribis en lastatempa afisxo <CyGFD...@tfs.com>:
>>Spoilers follow (I am not sure for what)
>Neither am I. Spoiler protection deleted.
>>very minor, but it is your choice if you continue
>Not any more. :-)
>>
>>I asked him to confirm that he had said that Rand will physically
>>lose his hand and that Mat will physically lose his eye. He stated,
>>"If I have said something similar to that, I may have misspoken."
>>[How is that for being enigmatic?]
>>
>I've been following these discussions for a year and a half now. It seems
>to be cumulative net.wisdom that Rand will lose his hand and Mat will lose
>his (left?) eye. In six books, however, I don't remember Jordan ever
>stating as much; and I don't remember anybody on the net ever quoting
>him as saying this. Did I miss something, people?
>
>--
>Don HARLOW
Someone posted about the signings a week or so ago, and said that Jordan, when
asked if Rand was going to lose a hand, said "Yup". But I doubt the
credibility of that post, seeing as how detailed description was scant, and
that Jordan hasn't given _else_ like that away. It was probably just
a joke. And I guess that many people missed it, or there would have been
more discussion, at least as to how it was going to happen
Anthony "Shadowkiller" Padilla
rpad...@princeton.edu
Chris Hulan
>In article <abergman-301...@td-college-kstar-node.net.yale.edu>,
>Aaron Bergman <aber...@minerva.cis.yale.edu> wrote:
>>In article <CyGKH...@tfs.com>, to...@tfs.com (Tom) wrote:
>>:One more answer:
>>:We all know that use of the one power is not genetic,
> How indeed? Have we seen anyone be able to wield the OP who
>wasn't initially capable of learning or actually would start using it?
Actually, part of the reason that Elayne, Nyn, etal. are thought to be
so strong in OP is because TR used to be Manetheren and is isolated so
"the old blood still runs thick" (paraphrased quote). I believe Maoraine
says this at some point after they get to the tower and begin to realize
how strong the girls are.
Some one with their books handy should be able to find a more accurate
quote.
Later
Xopher
Aaron Bergman
rpad...@tucson.princeton.edu (Rogelio Antonio Padilla) wrote:
:In article <donhCyI...@netcom.com>, Don HARLOW <do...@netcom.com> wrote:
:>to...@tfs.com (Tom) skribis en lastatempa afisxo <CyGFD...@tfs.com>:
:>>Spoilers follow (I am not sure for what)
:>Neither am I. Spoiler protection deleted.
:>>very minor, but it is your choice if you continue
:>Not any more. :-)
:>>
:>>I asked him to confirm that he had said that Rand will physically
:>>lose his hand and that Mat will physically lose his eye. He stated,
:>>"If I have said something similar to that, I may have misspoken."
:>>[How is that for being enigmatic?]
:>>
:>I've been following these discussions for a year and a half now. It seems
:>to be cumulative net.wisdom that Rand will lose his hand and Mat will lose
:>his (left?) eye. In six books, however, I don't remember Jordan ever
:>stating as much; and I don't remember anybody on the net ever quoting
:>him as saying this. Did I miss something, people?
:>
:>--
:>Don HARLOW
:
:Someone posted about the signings a week or so ago, and said that Jordan, when
:asked if Rand was going to lose a hand, said "Yup".
Not quite. IIRC, what was asked was "Is Rand a Tew-figure?" or something
like that...
Aaron
Rogelio Antonio Padilla
I know what you're talking about, but this post I'm referring to was earlier
than that. What I think happened is that someone asked, "is Rand a Tew
figure" Robert Jordan acknowledged this, and so the poster assumed that
meant that Rand was going to lose a hand, so in his first post about
it said "I got it straight from jordan, Rand will lose his hand.
At any rate, I know there was a post that declared that Jordan had
said definitively that Rand would lose a hand. Obviously, this isn't true,
but whether it was a misinterpretation on the poster's part, a joke, or
smoething else, I don't know.
Anthony "Shadowkiller" Padilla
rpad...@princeton.edu
Bradley Smith
Rogelio Antonio Padilla <rpad...@tucson.princeton.edu> wrote:
I really should have asked RJ if OP capability was genetic in
nature. I was going to, and probably would have, if I hadn't felt guilty
about missing my International Affairs class. Sigh.
>The use of the one power doesn't have to be either genetic or environmental,
>if people can be Reborn into different bodies at random, then that doesn't
>follow either pattern.
I'm assuming that the genes are widely spread enough to where
that if a reborn person is supposed to channel, s/he can. After all, I
don't think Moiraine, Lanfear, and Nynaeve are related....
I don't think Mat is related by blood to any of the
>dozens of people he has in his head, which he would have to be for that to
>be genetic, and Rand isn't descendant from Lews Therin, that we know of.
When did we start discussing Mat (Puzzled expression)? He can't
channel. Besides, memory is _not_ inherited. Eggs and sperm don't pass
memory RNA around when they're sharing DNA.
>So maybe the Creator just touches the Pattern at random, adding the
>ability in no particular order to no one in particular, with varying
>strengths that have nothing to do with inheritance.
The Creator probably manages the bloodlines enough that he can be
sure that Rand could channel. Hell, He's omniscient! He knows what's
going to happen, when, and how many times and in what position. He
manipulated _everything_ in order for the Dragon to be reborn.
Randland science doesn't
>have to follow ours, even if it's supposed to be Earth at one time, it's still
>fantasy.
Awww, but if it isn't, people like me wouldn't have nearly as
much fun! ;-)
Tom
tomb wrote:
RE: Chicago signing - 'will Rand lose his hand and Mat his eye?' -"Yes",Jordan
: >:>>I asked him to confirm that he had said that Rand will physically
: >:>>lose his hand and that Mat will physically lose his eye. He stated,
: >:>>"If I have said something similar to that, I may have misspoken."
: >:>>[How is that for being enigmatic?]
: At any rate, I know there was a post that declared that Jordan had
: said definitively that Rand would lose a hand. Obviously, this isn't true,
Please don't mistake anything I posted as pro or con Rand losing his hand.
The sense that I had from Jordan was that if he had led someone to believe
it, he hadn't meant to. Whether that was because it not true or because
he didn't want to give it away, I don't know.
- Tom Burke
PS Obvoiusly, there are deliberate similarities to Norse legends as pointed
out by many.
Rogelio Antonio Padilla
Looking back at that line, "obviously this isn't true."
I see it's rather unclear. I'm not saying that
it's not true that Rand will lose a hand, simply that it's untrue that
Jordan said anything definitive about it either way. At any rate, he
never intended to give anything like that away, so we still don't know
one way or the other.
Hopefully, I've made myself clear this time.
Thanks,
Anthony "Shadowkiller" Padilla
rpad...@princeton.edu
Christopher F. Byler
> Chris Hulan (880...@dragon.acadiau.ca) wrote in rec.arts.sf.written.robert-jordan:
> :>har...@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu (Bradley Smith) writes:
> :>>In article <abergman-301...@td-college-kstar-node.net.yale.edu>,
> :>>Aaron Bergman <aber...@minerva.cis.yale.edu> wrote:
> :>>>In article <CyGKH...@tfs.com>, to...@tfs.com (Tom) wrote:
> :>>>:One more answer:
> :>>>:We all know that use of the one power is not genetic,
> :>> How indeed? Have we seen anyone be able to wield the OP who
> :>>wasn't initially capable of learning or actually would start using it?
> :>Actually, part of the reason that Elayne, Nyn, etal. are thought to be
> :>so strong in OP is because TR used to be Manetheren and is isolated so
> :>"the old blood still runs thick" (paraphrased quote). I believe Maoraine
> :>says this at some point after they get to the tower and begin to realize
> :>how strong the girls are.
> Well, this doesn't say much. The old blood running thick in them could
> refer to anything, not necessarily to genetics (btw, I don't think
> things like remembering the Old Tongue could be based on genetics, but
> rather on some kind of spirit link to the forefathers (perhaps using TAR).
> Nevertheless they are blamed on the old blood). As Randworld is working
> on some very different rules than earth, there might be any explanation
> for channeling. I tend to agree that it is based on genetics, but it
> could be based on karma or a similar concept as well. we just can't
> know (as the AS never did any large double-blind test).
True, but there are still strong indications. First, all the rulers of Andor
have gone to the WT, and had *some* channeling ability (even if, like Morgase,
it's insufficient to become a full AS); second, the thing about Manetheren,
third, the fears that the AS are culling the ability to channel out of
humanity by (1) severing and thus killing men who can channel, and (2)
recruiting women who can channel, and then not having any children. These
all point to use of the OP as genetic. Incidentally, this is very minor
support for Thom as Elayne's father - we know channeling runs in his family
(Owyn).
> Helmut
> --
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Helmut Geyer Helmut...@iwr.uni-heidelberg.de
Aemon al Caar al Thorin
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| cf...@po.cwru.edu | If heredity were not overwhelmingly more |
| Chris Byler at | important than environment, you could |
| CWRU | teach calculus to a horse. -- R.A.H. |
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