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Re: Traveling, Skimming, and the Silver Foxhead
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TB
Apr 26, 2013, 8:54:41 PM4/26/13
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On Apr 22, 4:38 am, Aaron <ahste...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sunday, April 21, 2013 3:37:30 AM UTC-4, Chucky & Janica wrote:
> > A little while ago, there was a brief discussion about the One
>
> > Power-nullifying effects of Mat's foxhead medallion.
>
> > I said (as now seems fairly well-confirmed and consistent in
>
> > retrospect) that it wouldn't dissolve gateways. This is obviously
>
> > true, since he killed the gholam by ducking through a Skimming
>
> > gateway, and traveled a whole bunch in the final book without having
>
> > any problems.
>
> > Of course, this was still up in the air between his getting the
>
> > medallion in Rhuidean and killing the gholam in book 12 or 13. I think
>
> > it is fair enough to say that this was something Jordan had planned,
>
> > and Mat's medallion was never supposed to have problems with gateways.
>
> > Indeed, as I said in the earlier discussion, it *sort of* makes sense,
>
> > because the weave itself is only in the frame of the gateway which
>
> > revolves open, so he can go through the intervening space without
>
> > unravelling the weaves. Uh, the back of the gateway notwithstanding -
>
> > but everyone is, to my recollection, advised to avoid the backs of
>
> > gateways anyway.
>
> > And we don't have any other evidence of Mat going through gateways
>
> > before that. They were amazingly under-used, since their rediscovery.
>
> > Anyway, I just wanted to note that this obviously wasn't always my
>
> > theory concerning Mat's medallion. Prior to his dispatching of the
>
> > gholam, indeed, I was operating on the assumption that the medallion
>
> > *would* dissolve a gateway. From the Steal:
>
> > > "Here's what I'm going to do," Forsaken_1 said,
>
> > > feeling particularly brilliant. "I'm going to put this
>
> > > ter'angreal on top of the baby jar, and I'm going
>
> > > to throw them both through that gateway.
>
> > > If I'm right, it'll dissolve the gateway as it goes
>
> > > through, and you'll want to be there, waiting to
>
> > > catch the jar, because I reckon there's a bit of
>
> > > magic flowing through this thing and the
>
> > > ter'angreal's gonna switch it right off."
>
> > This is a semi-made-up trinket of Cadsuane's, not Mat's, but the same
>
> > theory applies. And turns out Forsaken_1 *was* right, and this plan
>
> > worked. Which (heh, like Shadowspawn apparently not being able to use
>
> > gateways at all) was later all screwed up by the actual books.
>
> > Now, obviously, I need to fix this or explain it in a future part of
>
> > the Steal, since I wrote it without knowing all the facts. So I ended
>
> > up in a contradiction.
>
> > Still, easy enough I think -
>
> > even if Cadsuane's trinket wasn't different to Mat's;
>
> > and even if Lanfear didn't just stop channeling in her distraction
>
> > (thus closing the gateway);
>
> > and even if Jordan's death in the Steal (another eerie-arse piece of
>
> > prophecy, by the way) didn't lead to the story itself being
>
> > ghost-written with different universal laws to the version we've read
>
> > (I consider this a cop-out so probably won't pursue it);
>
> > ...it's quite possible that Forsaken_1's throw took the ter'angreal
>
> > close enough to the edge of the gateway to dissolve it as per any
>
> > other weave. And it just wasn't mentioned specifically.
>
> > Of course, this is a side-issue and I will get around to addressing it
>
> > in the Steal. I will! I think the potential these ter'angreal have to
>
> > fuck up gateways could definitely have been used in the books.
>
> > My main question is, would the final books have been more dramatic, or
>
> > otherwise improved, if people bearing these types of ter'angreal
>
> > *hadn't* in fact been able to travel? Or, indeed, if the gholam itself
>
> > had been able to dissolve gateways on contact / through-stepping?
>
> > Because this would have made Mat's effectiveness in the Last Battle
>
> > far more conditional: he would have had a more legitimate reason to
>
> > loan his medallion out, so as to make use of the One Power to full
>
> > effect, putting himself at more risk as a trade-off to the enormous
>
> > advantage he was providing to the armies of the Light. And it would
>
> > have made the gholam an even more drawn-out and painful problem.
>
> > Which ... could have been good, or it could have just gotten annoying,
>
> > like Perrin rescuing Faile all the time.
>
> > Anyway, what do you think?
>
> Well, while I admit it "could go either way" on the medallions and the Gateways, obviously from my other comments I feel strongly that they should interfere with one another, as you also believed before canon went the other way.
>
> Interesting, though, that it was Sanders(on) canon, not pure RJ canon, that went the other way. No? Does that matter, I wonder, or should it? No, I'm not bringing this back to that other topic, I accept that RJ also went the other way on that one, not just Sanders(on).
>
> So I feel that the whole gateway (from one side to the other, top to bottom) must be constructed of the power, that's just what makes sense to me. But I didn't write the books.
>
> Uhh, thankfully. Can you IMAGINE how awful they would be? We sure as shit wouldn't have so many fans. Or any fans. *I* don't even like what I write.
I'm imagining that the foxhead would nullify the gateway if it toughed
the actual weave at the sides of the Gateway, but can go through
safely otherwise.
> On Sunday, April 21, 2013 3:37:30 AM UTC-4, Chucky & Janica wrote:
> > A little while ago, there was a brief discussion about the One
>
> > Power-nullifying effects of Mat's foxhead medallion.
>
> > I said (as now seems fairly well-confirmed and consistent in
>
> > retrospect) that it wouldn't dissolve gateways. This is obviously
>
> > true, since he killed the gholam by ducking through a Skimming
>
> > gateway, and traveled a whole bunch in the final book without having
>
> > any problems.
>
> > Of course, this was still up in the air between his getting the
>
> > medallion in Rhuidean and killing the gholam in book 12 or 13. I think
>
> > it is fair enough to say that this was something Jordan had planned,
>
> > and Mat's medallion was never supposed to have problems with gateways.
>
> > Indeed, as I said in the earlier discussion, it *sort of* makes sense,
>
> > because the weave itself is only in the frame of the gateway which
>
> > revolves open, so he can go through the intervening space without
>
> > unravelling the weaves. Uh, the back of the gateway notwithstanding -
>
> > but everyone is, to my recollection, advised to avoid the backs of
>
> > gateways anyway.
>
> > And we don't have any other evidence of Mat going through gateways
>
> > before that. They were amazingly under-used, since their rediscovery.
>
> > Anyway, I just wanted to note that this obviously wasn't always my
>
> > theory concerning Mat's medallion. Prior to his dispatching of the
>
> > gholam, indeed, I was operating on the assumption that the medallion
>
> > *would* dissolve a gateway. From the Steal:
>
> > > "Here's what I'm going to do," Forsaken_1 said,
>
> > > feeling particularly brilliant. "I'm going to put this
>
> > > ter'angreal on top of the baby jar, and I'm going
>
> > > to throw them both through that gateway.
>
> > > If I'm right, it'll dissolve the gateway as it goes
>
> > > through, and you'll want to be there, waiting to
>
> > > catch the jar, because I reckon there's a bit of
>
> > > magic flowing through this thing and the
>
> > > ter'angreal's gonna switch it right off."
>
> > This is a semi-made-up trinket of Cadsuane's, not Mat's, but the same
>
> > theory applies. And turns out Forsaken_1 *was* right, and this plan
>
> > worked. Which (heh, like Shadowspawn apparently not being able to use
>
> > gateways at all) was later all screwed up by the actual books.
>
> > Now, obviously, I need to fix this or explain it in a future part of
>
> > the Steal, since I wrote it without knowing all the facts. So I ended
>
> > up in a contradiction.
>
> > Still, easy enough I think -
>
> > even if Cadsuane's trinket wasn't different to Mat's;
>
> > and even if Lanfear didn't just stop channeling in her distraction
>
> > (thus closing the gateway);
>
> > and even if Jordan's death in the Steal (another eerie-arse piece of
>
> > prophecy, by the way) didn't lead to the story itself being
>
> > ghost-written with different universal laws to the version we've read
>
> > (I consider this a cop-out so probably won't pursue it);
>
> > ...it's quite possible that Forsaken_1's throw took the ter'angreal
>
> > close enough to the edge of the gateway to dissolve it as per any
>
> > other weave. And it just wasn't mentioned specifically.
>
> > Of course, this is a side-issue and I will get around to addressing it
>
> > in the Steal. I will! I think the potential these ter'angreal have to
>
> > fuck up gateways could definitely have been used in the books.
>
> > My main question is, would the final books have been more dramatic, or
>
> > otherwise improved, if people bearing these types of ter'angreal
>
> > *hadn't* in fact been able to travel? Or, indeed, if the gholam itself
>
> > had been able to dissolve gateways on contact / through-stepping?
>
> > Because this would have made Mat's effectiveness in the Last Battle
>
> > far more conditional: he would have had a more legitimate reason to
>
> > loan his medallion out, so as to make use of the One Power to full
>
> > effect, putting himself at more risk as a trade-off to the enormous
>
> > advantage he was providing to the armies of the Light. And it would
>
> > have made the gholam an even more drawn-out and painful problem.
>
> > Which ... could have been good, or it could have just gotten annoying,
>
> > like Perrin rescuing Faile all the time.
>
> > Anyway, what do you think?
>
> Well, while I admit it "could go either way" on the medallions and the Gateways, obviously from my other comments I feel strongly that they should interfere with one another, as you also believed before canon went the other way.
>
> Interesting, though, that it was Sanders(on) canon, not pure RJ canon, that went the other way. No? Does that matter, I wonder, or should it? No, I'm not bringing this back to that other topic, I accept that RJ also went the other way on that one, not just Sanders(on).
>
> So I feel that the whole gateway (from one side to the other, top to bottom) must be constructed of the power, that's just what makes sense to me. But I didn't write the books.
>
> Uhh, thankfully. Can you IMAGINE how awful they would be? We sure as shit wouldn't have so many fans. Or any fans. *I* don't even like what I write.
I'm imagining that the foxhead would nullify the gateway if it toughed
the actual weave at the sides of the Gateway, but can go through
safely otherwise.
Chucky @ Work
Apr 27, 2013, 9:37:14 AM4/27/13
to
On Fri, 26 Apr 2013 17:54:41 -0700 (PDT), TB
<tsbr...@dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
>I'm imagining that the foxhead would nullify the gateway if it toughed
>the actual weave at the sides of the Gateway, but can go through
>safely otherwise.
Seems to be how they did it, at least every time Mat went through a
<tsbr...@dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
>I'm imagining that the foxhead would nullify the gateway if it toughed
>the actual weave at the sides of the Gateway, but can go through
>safely otherwise.
gateway and didn't touch the sides with his medallion, he went through
without dissolving it. So there's that fairly solid evidence.
What would happen if it did touch the sides, we don't really know
since we never saw it happen, but it's probably a safe bet that it
would dissolve the weave.
Or slice the medallion in half, breaking it.
Hmm.
C@w
--
13 of 12, the CMM Collective
CHOW:
http://stchucky.wordpress.com/2011/10/24/chow-a-dance-with-dragons/
Give a hoot, read my book:
http://stchucky.wordpress.com/2012/07/18/arsebook-my-rear-in-status-2011/
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