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so is "Defiance" the new "Firefly"?
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Lynn McGuire
Apr 20, 2013, 2:00:26 AM4/20/13
to
I was watching "Defiance" with the wife and
daughter tonight and they both said it looked
familiar to them. And then we all said
"Firefly"! So is "Defiance" the new "Firefly"?
Lynn
daughter tonight and they both said it looked
familiar to them. And then we all said
"Firefly"! So is "Defiance" the new "Firefly"?
Lynn
Barry Margolin
Apr 20, 2013, 6:32:44 AM4/20/13
to
In article <kktaor$iec$1...@dont-email.me>, Lynn McGuire <l...@winsim.com>
wrote:
I guess so.
I can understand why society might revert in the "Revolution" scenario,
but why would it happen after alien colonization?
--
Barry Margolin
Arlington, MA
wrote:
I can understand why society might revert in the "Revolution" scenario,
but why would it happen after alien colonization?
--
Barry Margolin
Arlington, MA
Lynn McGuire
Apr 20, 2013, 1:02:10 PM4/20/13
to
there were massive wars. They said that St. Louis
is renamed Defiance because that is where the
soldiers on both sides refused to fight anymore.
Anyway, the terraforming was very disruptive (where
is the Mississippi river?) and many, many, many
people died with all the new plants and animals.
And wars on extremely tough on the native population.
Humans.
Lynn
shawn
Apr 20, 2013, 2:10:00 PM4/20/13
to
On Sat, 20 Apr 2013 12:02:10 -0500, Lynn McGuire <l...@winsim.com>
wrote:
It wasn't a planned teraforming. Apparently someone destroyed the
alien ships which triggered an uncontrolled terraforming. So the world
isn't the way humans or aliens wanted it. The destruction of the alien
ark ships also led to the death of most of the aliens. So we are
dealing with a population of humans and aliens that has been decimated
(so to speak.)
wrote:
alien ships which triggered an uncontrolled terraforming. So the world
isn't the way humans or aliens wanted it. The destruction of the alien
ark ships also led to the death of most of the aliens. So we are
dealing with a population of humans and aliens that has been decimated
(so to speak.)
Alan
Apr 20, 2013, 4:53:32 PM4/20/13
to
The use of the word "terraforming" seems a bit odd. At least in
normal SF, that means changing a world to an earthlike environment,
not what we are seeing. I expect that the "somethings" which
destroyed the ships were nuclear tipped missiles. It is usually
considered unneighborly to drop in on someone, demand space on their
planet, refuse to take no for an answer, and then wreck it with
"unterraforming" equipment. Ask any American Indian.
--
Alan
normal SF, that means changing a world to an earthlike environment,
not what we are seeing. I expect that the "somethings" which
destroyed the ships were nuclear tipped missiles. It is usually
considered unneighborly to drop in on someone, demand space on their
planet, refuse to take no for an answer, and then wreck it with
"unterraforming" equipment. Ask any American Indian.
--
Alan
Lynn McGuire
Apr 20, 2013, 5:56:15 PM4/20/13
to
animals with them. Reminds me of David Gerrold's
_Chtorr stories somewhat:
http://www.amazon.com/Matter-For-Against-Chtorr-Book/dp/0553277820/
Lynn
Barry Margolin
Apr 20, 2013, 10:34:48 PM4/20/13
to
In article <liv5n8t3dnbf9a3uv...@4ax.com>,
I found the word strange, too, since the root "terra" means Earth.
But we don't have a word for transforming our world into an alien-like
environment. It's not too odd to extend the meaning to "transforming a
planet to be like the transformers' native habitat".
But we don't have a word for transforming our world into an alien-like
environment. It's not too odd to extend the meaning to "transforming a
planet to be like the transformers' native habitat".
Murdoc
Apr 21, 2013, 8:44:05 AM4/21/13
to
On Sat, 20 Apr 2013 22:34:48 -0400, Barry Margolin wrote:
> In article <liv5n8t3dnbf9a3uv...@4ax.com>,
> Alan <ALANBI...@YAHOO.COM> wrote:
>
>> The use of the word "terraforming" seems a bit odd. At least in
>> normal SF, that means changing a world to an earthlike environment,
>> not what we are seeing. I expect that the "somethings" which
>> destroyed the ships were nuclear tipped missiles. It is usually
>> considered unneighborly to drop in on someone, demand space on their
>> planet, refuse to take no for an answer, and then wreck it with
>> "unterraforming" equipment. Ask any American Indian.
>
> I found the word strange, too, since the root "terra" means Earth.
>
> But we don't have a word for transforming our world into an alien-like
> environment.
I've seen "xenoforming" used to represent that.
> In article <liv5n8t3dnbf9a3uv...@4ax.com>,
> Alan <ALANBI...@YAHOO.COM> wrote:
>
>> The use of the word "terraforming" seems a bit odd. At least in
>> normal SF, that means changing a world to an earthlike environment,
>> not what we are seeing. I expect that the "somethings" which
>> destroyed the ships were nuclear tipped missiles. It is usually
>> considered unneighborly to drop in on someone, demand space on their
>> planet, refuse to take no for an answer, and then wreck it with
>> "unterraforming" equipment. Ask any American Indian.
>
> I found the word strange, too, since the root "terra" means Earth.
>
> But we don't have a word for transforming our world into an alien-like
> environment.
You can watch, and walk through, part of the world being xenoformed in the
first Half-Life video game, starting at "Surface Tension". The mission pack
Opposing Force has more of it. It's implied that the xenoforming is
accidental, a result of spores and critters leaking in from another
dimension.
In Half-Life 2, on the other hand, there's been clearly intentional changes
made by aliens to the environment, and on a global scale this time, but
it's suggested it's more of a resource-plundering than a transformation
intended to make Earth more hospitable to the invaders.
shawn
Apr 21, 2013, 10:31:11 AM4/21/13
to
On Sat, 20 Apr 2013 16:56:15 -0500, Lynn McGuire <l...@winsim.com>
Don't mention those stories to me..
I still haven't come to accept the fact that he will never finish the
books even though that clearly seems to be the case.
I still haven't come to accept the fact that he will never finish the
books even though that clearly seems to be the case.
Adam H. Kerman
Apr 21, 2013, 10:47:18 AM4/21/13
to
Barry Margolin <bar...@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
>Alan <ALANBI...@YAHOO.COM> wrote:
>>The use of the word "terraforming" seems a bit odd. At least in
>>normal SF, that means changing a world to an earthlike environment,
>>not what we are seeing. I expect that the "somethings" which
>>destroyed the ships were nuclear tipped missiles. It is usually
>>considered unneighborly to drop in on someone, demand space on their
>>planet, refuse to take no for an answer, and then wreck it with
>>"unterraforming" equipment. Ask any American Indian.
>I found the word strange, too, since the root "terra" means Earth.
Lemme be the first to inform you that "earth" is a generic word, too,
>Alan <ALANBI...@YAHOO.COM> wrote:
>>The use of the word "terraforming" seems a bit odd. At least in
>>normal SF, that means changing a world to an earthlike environment,
>>not what we are seeing. I expect that the "somethings" which
>>destroyed the ships were nuclear tipped missiles. It is usually
>>considered unneighborly to drop in on someone, demand space on their
>>planet, refuse to take no for an answer, and then wreck it with
>>"unterraforming" equipment. Ask any American Indian.
>I found the word strange, too, since the root "terra" means Earth.
not specific to the third rock from the sun.
>But we don't have a word for transforming our world into an alien-like
>environment. It's not too odd to extend the meaning to "transforming a
>planet to be like the transformers' native habitat".
meant an attempt to transfer the planet to meet the needs of the ones
doing the transformation.
Doc O'Leary
Apr 21, 2013, 11:49:05 AM4/21/13
to
In article <barmar-E7499F....@news.eternal-september.org>,
new word should (probably) be xenoforming. A quick web search shows
it's not even a new word.
--
iPhone apps that matter: http://appstore.subsume.com/
My personal UDP list: 127.0.0.1, localhost, googlegroups.com, theremailer.net,
and probably your server, too.
Barry Margolin <bar...@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
> I found the word strange, too, since the root "terra" means Earth.
>
> But we don't have a word for transforming our world into an alien-like
> environment.
We don't need a word. We have rules to make words. The rules say the
> I found the word strange, too, since the root "terra" means Earth.
>
> But we don't have a word for transforming our world into an alien-like
> environment.
new word should (probably) be xenoforming. A quick web search shows
it's not even a new word.
--
iPhone apps that matter: http://appstore.subsume.com/
My personal UDP list: 127.0.0.1, localhost, googlegroups.com, theremailer.net,
and probably your server, too.
erilar
Apr 21, 2013, 2:24:13 PM4/21/13
to
giggle
--
Erilar, biblioholic medievalist
--
Erilar, biblioholic medievalist
Lynn McGuire
Apr 21, 2013, 3:00:27 PM4/21/13
to
unpublished manuscripts and ...
Lynn
Barry Margolin
Apr 21, 2013, 3:31:56 PM4/21/13
to
In article <kl0u5m$lhk$2...@news.albasani.net>,
As you said, context is important. "Earth" with a capital E, or "the"
before it, means our planet; "an earth" refers to any Earth-like planet.
Similarly, we may refer to "the sun" (aka Sol) or "other suns" (any star
with planets around it -- which may actually be all stars).
before it, means our planet; "an earth" refers to any Earth-like planet.
Similarly, we may refer to "the sun" (aka Sol) or "other suns" (any star
with planets around it -- which may actually be all stars).
Adam H. Kerman
Apr 21, 2013, 6:16:37 PM4/21/13
to
"earth" is merely a generic word, probably means something like
"our land". An alien might use a comparable generic word to refer to
his home planet. "terra" is similarly generic. Generic terms must be
used in context. When used with respect to the context of this planet's
inhabitants, we understand what planet it refers to.
It's a word an alien would use the same way as we do, but it doesn't
refer to our planet, but to his.
You don't get to declare "earth" to mean any unique concept.
Similarly, Sol is generic for sun or star.
It's like you're standing on the banks of the Mississippi River and
declaring for all to hear that it's uniquely named "water".
You can't handle an alien concept of terraforming relative to what would
make a planet habitable for himself? Uh, get over it.
David Johnston
Apr 22, 2013, 3:42:47 AM4/22/13
to
On 4/20/2013 2:53 PM, Alan wrote:
> The use of the word "terraforming" seems a bit odd. At least in
> normal SF, that means changing a world to an earthlike environment,
> not what we are seeing.
It is still an earthlike environment. It's just a different earthlike
> The use of the word "terraforming" seems a bit odd. At least in
> normal SF, that means changing a world to an earthlike environment,
> not what we are seeing.
environment.
David Johnston
Apr 22, 2013, 3:43:27 AM4/22/13
to
On 4/20/2013 8:34 PM, Barry Margolin wrote:
> In article <liv5n8t3dnbf9a3uv...@4ax.com>,
> Alan <ALANBI...@YAHOO.COM> wrote:
>
>> The use of the word "terraforming" seems a bit odd. At least in
>> normal SF, that means changing a world to an earthlike environment,
>> not what we are seeing. I expect that the "somethings" which
>> destroyed the ships were nuclear tipped missiles. It is usually
>> considered unneighborly to drop in on someone, demand space on their
>> planet, refuse to take no for an answer, and then wreck it with
>> "unterraforming" equipment. Ask any American Indian.
>
> I found the word strange, too, since the root "terra" means Earth.
>
> But we don't have a word for transforming our world into an alien-like
> environment.
Xenoforming!
> In article <liv5n8t3dnbf9a3uv...@4ax.com>,
> Alan <ALANBI...@YAHOO.COM> wrote:
>
>> The use of the word "terraforming" seems a bit odd. At least in
>> normal SF, that means changing a world to an earthlike environment,
>> not what we are seeing. I expect that the "somethings" which
>> destroyed the ships were nuclear tipped missiles. It is usually
>> considered unneighborly to drop in on someone, demand space on their
>> planet, refuse to take no for an answer, and then wreck it with
>> "unterraforming" equipment. Ask any American Indian.
>
> I found the word strange, too, since the root "terra" means Earth.
>
> But we don't have a word for transforming our world into an alien-like
> environment.
Adam H. Kerman
Apr 22, 2013, 9:11:00 AM4/22/13
to
someone else's followup.
Harold Groot
Apr 22, 2013, 5:14:45 PM4/22/13
to
On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 22:16:37 +0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
Um... in the circles I travel in, neither Earth nor Sol are considered
generic terms. They are specific to this planet and this star.
I will grant you that there are some places I have seen a slightly
more general use of Earth as "Earth-like planet", i.e. "There may be
Earths circling other stars". But that's still using this specific
planet as the template, not some generic planet. And where have you
seen Sol used as a generic? Do people around you say that you can see
a thousand Sols in the night sky? No one I know uses it that way. If
memory serves, Sol derives from latin - and in the days when latin was
spoken, the sun and the stars were believed to be VERY DIFFERENT from
each other. They only knew of one sun-like object, so any word
describing it would be specific, not generic.
generic terms. They are specific to this planet and this star.
I will grant you that there are some places I have seen a slightly
more general use of Earth as "Earth-like planet", i.e. "There may be
Earths circling other stars". But that's still using this specific
planet as the template, not some generic planet. And where have you
seen Sol used as a generic? Do people around you say that you can see
a thousand Sols in the night sky? No one I know uses it that way. If
memory serves, Sol derives from latin - and in the days when latin was
spoken, the sun and the stars were believed to be VERY DIFFERENT from
each other. They only knew of one sun-like object, so any word
describing it would be specific, not generic.
Adam H. Kerman
Apr 22, 2013, 9:52:18 PM4/22/13
to
It's like the word that every ethnic group on the planet uses for itself
means "The Dudes" or "The People" or "Us" or "Just not those outsiders"
>I will grant you that there are some places I have seen a slightly
>more general use of Earth as "Earth-like planet", i.e. "There may be
>Earths circling other stars". But that's still using this specific
>planet as the template, not some generic planet. And where have you
>seen Sol used as a generic? Do people around you say that you can see
>a thousand Sols in the night sky? No one I know uses it that way. If
>memory serves, Sol derives from latin - and in the days when latin was
>spoken, the sun and the stars were believed to be VERY DIFFERENT from
>each other. They only knew of one sun-like object, so any word
>describing it would be specific, not generic.
But the word is for a shiny object in the sky.
It's not like it's named Fred.
Harold Groot
Apr 23, 2013, 8:16:45 AM4/23/13
to
On Tue, 23 Apr 2013 01:52:18 +0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
<a...@chinet.com> wrote:
>It's not like it's named Fred.
Actually, Sol IS like Fred. It's capitalized, i.e. it's a proper
<a...@chinet.com> wrote:
>It's not like it's named Fred.
name. That isn't the case for sun or star.
Barry Margolin
Apr 23, 2013, 8:22:43 AM4/23/13
to
In article <51767b07...@news.west.earthlink.net>,
> It's capitalized, i.e. it's a proper
> name. That isn't the case for sun or star.
How useful would the Federation map be if it labeled all the stars
"Sol", so as not to discriminate in favor of any particular species?
que...@infionline.net (Harold Groot) wrote:
> On Tue, 23 Apr 2013 01:52:18 +0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
> <a...@chinet.com> wrote:
>
> >It's not like it's named Fred.
>
> Actually, Sol IS like Fred.
I had an Uncle Sol, but I don't think I had an Uncle Fred. YMMV.
> On Tue, 23 Apr 2013 01:52:18 +0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
> <a...@chinet.com> wrote:
>
> >It's not like it's named Fred.
>
> Actually, Sol IS like Fred.
> It's capitalized, i.e. it's a proper
> name. That isn't the case for sun or star.
"Sol", so as not to discriminate in favor of any particular species?
Adam H. Kerman
Apr 23, 2013, 9:28:29 AM4/23/13
to
Harold Groot <que...@infionline.net> wrote:
>"Adam H. Kerman" <a...@chinet.com> wrote:
>>It's not like it's named Fred.
>Actually, Sol IS like Fred. It's capitalized, i.e. it's a proper
>name. That isn't the case for sun or star.
Whoosh
>"Adam H. Kerman" <a...@chinet.com> wrote:
>>It's not like it's named Fred.
>Actually, Sol IS like Fred. It's capitalized, i.e. it's a proper
>name. That isn't the case for sun or star.
It's the difference between "a shiny object" and "The Shiny Object".
It doesn't change the fact that the term for "shiny object" is generic.
The only thing that makes it specific to the sun in question is using the
term in context with people from this planet.
Adam H. Kerman
Apr 23, 2013, 9:35:25 AM4/23/13
to
Barry Margolin <bar...@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
in the language or languages of the species from one of planets, and none
are named Fred. 'Tis why coordinate references can be handy, or naming
them for the constellations they appear to be part of.
>que...@infionline.net (Harold Groot) wrote:
>>"Adam H. Kerman" <a...@chinet.com> wrote:
>>>It's not like it's named Fred.
>>Actually, Sol IS like Fred.
>I had an Uncle Sol, but I don't think I had an Uncle Fred. YMMV.
>>It's capitalized, i.e. it's a proper
>>name. That isn't the case for sun or star.
>How useful would the Federation map be if it labeled all the stars
>"Sol", so as not to discriminate in favor of any particular species?
I'm sure that is the name of every single star in a planetary system,
>>"Adam H. Kerman" <a...@chinet.com> wrote:
>>>It's not like it's named Fred.
>>Actually, Sol IS like Fred.
>I had an Uncle Sol, but I don't think I had an Uncle Fred. YMMV.
>>It's capitalized, i.e. it's a proper
>>name. That isn't the case for sun or star.
>How useful would the Federation map be if it labeled all the stars
>"Sol", so as not to discriminate in favor of any particular species?
in the language or languages of the species from one of planets, and none
are named Fred. 'Tis why coordinate references can be handy, or naming
them for the constellations they appear to be part of.
jack
Apr 23, 2013, 11:48:04 AM4/23/13
to
Seems like the writers may have gotten hold of a script for the movie "Oblivion." Certain similarities there. But terraforming is an odd word as it describes changing a planet to make it habitable to an incoming species, which in this case should have made the planet uninhabitable by humans. But all races seem to be living fine in what appears to still be pre-invasion conditions as to supporting Earth life. Maybe there would have been a real terraforming and it got derailed by the war? I can't see how creating canyons in the Mississippi flood plain helps any off-Earth species live on Earth.
Doc O'Leary
Apr 23, 2013, 11:50:28 AM4/23/13
to
In article <barmar-9437CB....@news.eternal-september.org>,
likes, not as the *resident* likes. All maps already discriminate by
language; the label "China" is not in Chinese. So, yeah, a Federation
map that names things in English is no more respectful to the locals
than just slapping Sol on everything.
Barry Margolin <bar...@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
> How useful would the Federation map be if it labeled all the stars
> "Sol", so as not to discriminate in favor of any particular species?
Makes me think of how our current maps label things as the *reader*
> How useful would the Federation map be if it labeled all the stars
> "Sol", so as not to discriminate in favor of any particular species?
likes, not as the *resident* likes. All maps already discriminate by
language; the label "China" is not in Chinese. So, yeah, a Federation
map that names things in English is no more respectful to the locals
than just slapping Sol on everything.
David Johnston
Apr 23, 2013, 2:08:43 PM4/23/13
to
dead rock, not Earth.
David Johnston
Apr 23, 2013, 2:09:47 PM4/23/13
to
Dragon Lady
Apr 24, 2013, 5:27:29 AM4/24/13
to
"Lynn McGuire" <l...@winsim.com> wrote in message
news:kkuhhk$ut1$1...@dont-email.me...
> On 4/20/2013 5:32 AM, Barry Margolin wrote:
>> In article <kktaor$iec$1...@dont-email.me>, Lynn McGuire <l...@winsim.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I was watching "Defiance" with the wife and
>>> daughter tonight and they both said it looked
>>> familiar to them. And then we all said
>>> "Firefly"! So is "Defiance" the new "Firefly"?
>>
>> I guess so.
>>
>> I can understand why society might revert in the "Revolution" scenario,
>> but why would it happen after alien colonization?
>
> The Earth was terraformed by the aliens and then
> there were massive wars. They said that St. Louis
> is renamed Defiance because that is where the
> soldiers on both sides refused to fight anymore.
>
> Anyway, the terraforming was very disruptive (where
> is the Mississippi river?) and many, many, many
> people died with all the new plants and animals.
> And wars on extremely tough on the native population.
> Humans.
I haven't seen this show yet, but I have a question.
>> In article <kktaor$iec$1...@dont-email.me>, Lynn McGuire <l...@winsim.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I was watching "Defiance" with the wife and
>>> daughter tonight and they both said it looked
>>> familiar to them. And then we all said
>>> "Firefly"! So is "Defiance" the new "Firefly"?
>>
>> I guess so.
>>
>> I can understand why society might revert in the "Revolution" scenario,
>> but why would it happen after alien colonization?
>
> The Earth was terraformed by the aliens and then
> there were massive wars. They said that St. Louis
> is renamed Defiance because that is where the
> soldiers on both sides refused to fight anymore.
>
> Anyway, the terraforming was very disruptive (where
> is the Mississippi river?) and many, many, many
> people died with all the new plants and animals.
> And wars on extremely tough on the native population.
> Humans.
Why on earth would they terraform a planet that already apparently met their
needs? I mean, don't they breath the same air and eat the same foods as the
native population, and if they don't, how did the native population survive
the terraforming to wage war on them?
Also, secondly, if they terraformed the planet, what kind of process did
they use that the St. Louis arch is still standing, albeit broken?
Ken from Chicago
Apr 24, 2013, 8:00:09 AM4/24/13
to
"Lynn McGuire" <l...@winsim.com> wrote in message
news:kktaor$iec$1...@dont-email.me...
> I was watching "Defiance" with the wife and
> daughter tonight and they both said it looked
> familiar to them. And then we all said
> "Firefly"! So is "Defiance" the new "Firefly"?
>
> Lynn
> daughter tonight and they both said it looked
> familiar to them. And then we all said
> "Firefly"! So is "Defiance" the new "Firefly"?
>
It seems more like the new FARSCAPE. As good as FIREFLY was, it never had
proper aliens. Even the reavers were mutated humans. The thing that makes it
seem like FIREFLY honestly only seems to be lack of paved roads (which it
would be nice if they explained as due to some alien spore or radiation or
nanotech, or something). The rest is basically PAW, akin to THE WALKING DEAD
or MAD MAX: BEYOND THE THUNDERDOME set in one town in a wild frontier
isolated from other towns.
-- Ken from Chicago
Ken from Chicago
Apr 24, 2013, 8:22:55 AM4/24/13
to
"Barry Margolin" <bar...@alum.mit.edu> wrote in message
news:barmar-251624....@news.eternal-september.org...
(to which the USA's "Marshall Plan" was a big boost in their restoratation).
In the world of DEFIANCE, aliens, the Votans, a group of 7 (or 8) races of
aliens, found their homeworlds going the way of Krypton and fled on
5,000-year trip, a ragtag fleet, on a lonely quest to a shining planet known
as Earth.
But surprise, after 5,000 years the fleet of Arkships arrive in Earth orbit
and discover the planet is inhabited by intelligent life. Now what? Their
homeworlds are long dead, their ships mostly depleted of resources, so after
about 15 years of negotiating with the leaders of Earth, things go
pear-shaped and shots are fired and a war breaks out for over a decade. And
then things get really bad.
Someone manages to blow up one of the Arkship and several more and they star
colliding with other Arkships in orbit and ... raining down debris and whole
ships on Earth--including the xenoforming (which the show call
"terraforming") systems, which change all of Earth in wild and unpredicted
and unintended ways than even the Votans planned.
At one point in the city of St. Louis, Illinois, a group of human and Votan
soldiers CHOSE to stop fighting in (wait for it) ... defiance ... of the
orders from the higher-ups on both sides of the conflict. Shortly after, the
war peters out because neither side have the will or wherewithall to keep
fighting.
The survivors on both sides carve out a life on the xenoformed Earth that
neither recognize. That's why the new mayor of town of Defiance (built over
the ruins of St. Louis) is heard saying "This world has no natives".
-- Ken from Chicago
news:barmar-251624....@news.eternal-september.org...
>> I was watching "Defiance" with the wife and
>> daughter tonight and they both said it looked
>> familiar to them. And then we all said
>> "Firefly"! So is "Defiance" the new "Firefly"?
>
>> daughter tonight and they both said it looked
>> familiar to them. And then we all said
>> "Firefly"! So is "Defiance" the new "Firefly"?
>
> I guess so.
>
> I can understand why society might revert in the "Revolution" scenario,
> but why would it happen after alien colonization?
>
>
> I can understand why society might revert in the "Revolution" scenario,
> but why would it happen after alien colonization?
>
> --
> Barry Margolin
> Arlington, MA
Look at Europe and Asia after WW1 and WW2: NAZI BOOGALOO, it was devastated
> Barry Margolin
> Arlington, MA
(to which the USA's "Marshall Plan" was a big boost in their restoratation).
In the world of DEFIANCE, aliens, the Votans, a group of 7 (or 8) races of
aliens, found their homeworlds going the way of Krypton and fled on
5,000-year trip, a ragtag fleet, on a lonely quest to a shining planet known
as Earth.
But surprise, after 5,000 years the fleet of Arkships arrive in Earth orbit
and discover the planet is inhabited by intelligent life. Now what? Their
homeworlds are long dead, their ships mostly depleted of resources, so after
about 15 years of negotiating with the leaders of Earth, things go
pear-shaped and shots are fired and a war breaks out for over a decade. And
then things get really bad.
Someone manages to blow up one of the Arkship and several more and they star
colliding with other Arkships in orbit and ... raining down debris and whole
ships on Earth--including the xenoforming (which the show call
"terraforming") systems, which change all of Earth in wild and unpredicted
and unintended ways than even the Votans planned.
At one point in the city of St. Louis, Illinois, a group of human and Votan
soldiers CHOSE to stop fighting in (wait for it) ... defiance ... of the
orders from the higher-ups on both sides of the conflict. Shortly after, the
war peters out because neither side have the will or wherewithall to keep
fighting.
The survivors on both sides carve out a life on the xenoformed Earth that
neither recognize. That's why the new mayor of town of Defiance (built over
the ruins of St. Louis) is heard saying "This world has no natives".
-- Ken from Chicago
Ken from Chicago
Apr 24, 2013, 8:24:27 AM4/24/13
to
"Barry Margolin" <bar...@alum.mit.edu> wrote in message
news:barmar-E7499F....@news.eternal-september.org...
-- Ken from Chicago
Adam H. Kerman
Apr 24, 2013, 9:45:08 AM4/24/13
to
Bullshit crosspost to Firefly newsgroup cut.
Ken from Chicago <ken...@ymail.com> wrote:
>At one point in the city of St. Louis, Illinois, a group of human and Votan
>soldiers CHOSE to stop fighting in (wait for it) ... defiance ... of the
>orders from the higher-ups on both sides of the conflict. Shortly after, the
>war peters out because neither side have the will or wherewithall to keep
>fighting.
Do you want to fix that, please?
Ken from Chicago <ken...@ymail.com> wrote:
>At one point in the city of St. Louis, Illinois, a group of human and Votan
>soldiers CHOSE to stop fighting in (wait for it) ... defiance ... of the
>orders from the higher-ups on both sides of the conflict. Shortly after, the
>war peters out because neither side have the will or wherewithall to keep
>fighting.
David Johnston
Apr 24, 2013, 2:08:05 PM4/24/13
to
bombs were "mysteriously attacked" and crashed on Earth, whereupon they
went off. They may have been by design, since after all, it did make
Earth more habitable for the aliens, by wiping up most of the indigenous
population.
Ken from Chicago
Apr 24, 2013, 3:39:24 PM4/24/13
to
"erilar" <dra...@chibardun.net.invalid> wrote in message
news:drache-19B694....@news.eternal-september.org...
that there is indeed happen to be a word for transforming the Earth to fit
an alien environment. We should rejoice as new discoveries are made.
-- Ken from Chicago
news:drache-19B694....@news.eternal-september.org...
> giggle
>
> --
> Erilar, biblioholic medievalist
Now, now, Erilar, no need to giggle. I see the respondent is finding out
>
> --
> Erilar, biblioholic medievalist
that there is indeed happen to be a word for transforming the Earth to fit
an alien environment. We should rejoice as new discoveries are made.
-- Ken from Chicago
Dimensional Traveler
Apr 25, 2013, 12:19:28 AM4/25/13
to
better than that. I've only watched the pilot so far and already I know
the show ain't about the terraforming or the wars, its a soap opera
about the "relationships".
--
The 'Enterprise' crew in the 2009 Star Trek are adrenaline addicted,
hyper-active teenagers with ADD whose Ritalin got replaced with
methamphetamine, displaying a level of discipline that a Somali pirate
wouldn't tolerate.
Hunter
Apr 25, 2013, 5:32:50 AM4/25/13
to
On Tue, 23 Apr 2013 08:48:04 -0700 (PDT), jack <jr...@columbia.edu>
wrote:
>
>Seems like the writers may have gotten hold of a script for the movie "Obli=
>vion." Certain similarities there. But terraforming is an odd word as it =
>describes changing a planet to make it habitable to an incoming species, wh=
>ich in this case should have made the planet uninhabitable by humans. But =
>all races seem to be living fine in what appears to still be pre-invasion c=
>onditions as to supporting Earth life. Maybe there would have been a real=
> terraforming and it got derailed by the war? I can't see how creating can=
>yons in the Mississippi flood plain helps any off-Earth species live on Ear=
>th.
-----
The aliens came from similar worlds to Earth so any changes wasn't
radical enough to render Humans extinct. For example the Votans all
brieth an oxygen nitrogen atmosphere. Obviously the "terraforming"
program even one by accident wouldn't change the atmospheric mixture
that is, the terraforming progam said "add oxygen to the atmosphere to
this alien world that doesn't have it" but the planet already had
oxygen in its atmosphere so no real harm, just probably over
oxygenated the atmosphere to like when it was say a few million years
ago when dinosaurs rulled the Earth.
As noted it was an accident. All of the "terraforming" technology was
dumped on earth not in a planned controlled manner. It is like having
a farm but instead of planting the seeds of different crops in
different fields, all of the seeds were just dumped together, the
cabbage, corn, carrots, wheat, etc growing all together haphazardly,
not what was intended.
Of course in a way there has been a form of "terraforming" going on
for hundreds of years with human populations from one part of the
planet intentionally or unintentionally moving planet and animal
species form their native places to places that never seen them before
or haven't in thousands or millions of years. The majority of the time
the affects wasn't really appreciated at the time. As we know there
are consequences both good and bad for the native species like them
being displaced for the invasive ones.
That is why today there are strict customs controls for introducing
foreign plants and animals from the out side, but even with them plant
and animal species make it through.
Now throw in at the same time people changing the course of mighty,
rivers buy actually changing their courses or damning turning some
places into artificial lakes. Also cutting down forrest and using
heavy machinery to strip mine.
We did these things to benefit humans but also they had bad effects on
the enviorment which eventually become bad for us. This is why today
one has to go through the red tape of enviromental impact statements
to make sure that the enviorment isn't harmed (I am not debating for
or against the neccessity of it just saying the reason it exist).
What we are seeing in "Defiance" is an extreme example of both of
this, Alien species of plant and animal dumped on Earth and running
and growing wild. The native Earth species were mutated as well, not
just displaced and rendered extinct. Then throw in at the same time
massive Geological change also bought on by the
"terraforming" ("Votanforming" as I prefer) technology run amok and
unplanned all within a mere 10 years or so.
------>Hunter
"No man in the wrong can stand up against
a fellow that's in the right and keeps on acomin'."
-----William J. McDonald
Captain, Texas Rangers from 1891 to 1907
wrote:
>
>Seems like the writers may have gotten hold of a script for the movie "Obli=
>vion." Certain similarities there. But terraforming is an odd word as it =
>describes changing a planet to make it habitable to an incoming species, wh=
>ich in this case should have made the planet uninhabitable by humans. But =
>all races seem to be living fine in what appears to still be pre-invasion c=
>onditions as to supporting Earth life. Maybe there would have been a real=
> terraforming and it got derailed by the war? I can't see how creating can=
>yons in the Mississippi flood plain helps any off-Earth species live on Ear=
>th.
-----
The aliens came from similar worlds to Earth so any changes wasn't
radical enough to render Humans extinct. For example the Votans all
brieth an oxygen nitrogen atmosphere. Obviously the "terraforming"
program even one by accident wouldn't change the atmospheric mixture
that is, the terraforming progam said "add oxygen to the atmosphere to
this alien world that doesn't have it" but the planet already had
oxygen in its atmosphere so no real harm, just probably over
oxygenated the atmosphere to like when it was say a few million years
ago when dinosaurs rulled the Earth.
As noted it was an accident. All of the "terraforming" technology was
dumped on earth not in a planned controlled manner. It is like having
a farm but instead of planting the seeds of different crops in
different fields, all of the seeds were just dumped together, the
cabbage, corn, carrots, wheat, etc growing all together haphazardly,
not what was intended.
Of course in a way there has been a form of "terraforming" going on
for hundreds of years with human populations from one part of the
planet intentionally or unintentionally moving planet and animal
species form their native places to places that never seen them before
or haven't in thousands or millions of years. The majority of the time
the affects wasn't really appreciated at the time. As we know there
are consequences both good and bad for the native species like them
being displaced for the invasive ones.
That is why today there are strict customs controls for introducing
foreign plants and animals from the out side, but even with them plant
and animal species make it through.
Now throw in at the same time people changing the course of mighty,
rivers buy actually changing their courses or damning turning some
places into artificial lakes. Also cutting down forrest and using
heavy machinery to strip mine.
We did these things to benefit humans but also they had bad effects on
the enviorment which eventually become bad for us. This is why today
one has to go through the red tape of enviromental impact statements
to make sure that the enviorment isn't harmed (I am not debating for
or against the neccessity of it just saying the reason it exist).
What we are seeing in "Defiance" is an extreme example of both of
this, Alien species of plant and animal dumped on Earth and running
and growing wild. The native Earth species were mutated as well, not
just displaced and rendered extinct. Then throw in at the same time
massive Geological change also bought on by the
"terraforming" ("Votanforming" as I prefer) technology run amok and
unplanned all within a mere 10 years or so.
------>Hunter
"No man in the wrong can stand up against
a fellow that's in the right and keeps on acomin'."
-----William J. McDonald
Captain, Texas Rangers from 1891 to 1907
Hunter
Apr 25, 2013, 7:45:17 AM4/25/13
to
On Sat, 20 Apr 2013 15:53:32 -0500, Alan <ALANBI...@YAHOO.COM>
It is used in real life to with scenerios to terraform Mars. In this
case it is used to discribe the process of change to the planet the
aliens intended for an uninhabited planet. Call it "Votanforming".
And no it wasn't nuclear tipped missiles that destroyed the Votan
fleet. If they were the Votans, peoples far more technologically
advanced than anything that Earth had, would've seen them coming and
destroyed them on their way up.
Within the show's-and originating video game-the Votan fleet was
either destroyed from within by a human guerilla fighter or some
superweapon the Votans were making that almost literally blew up in
their faces.
wrote:
>The use of the word "terraforming" seems a bit odd. At least in
>normal SF, that means changing a world to an earthlike environment,
>not what we are seeing. I expect that the "somethings" which
>destroyed the ships were nuclear tipped missiles. It is usually
>considered unneighborly to drop in on someone, demand space on their
>planet, refuse to take no for an answer, and then wreck it with
>"unterraforming" equipment. Ask any American Indian.
----
>The use of the word "terraforming" seems a bit odd. At least in
>normal SF, that means changing a world to an earthlike environment,
>not what we are seeing. I expect that the "somethings" which
>destroyed the ships were nuclear tipped missiles. It is usually
>considered unneighborly to drop in on someone, demand space on their
>planet, refuse to take no for an answer, and then wreck it with
>"unterraforming" equipment. Ask any American Indian.
It is used in real life to with scenerios to terraform Mars. In this
case it is used to discribe the process of change to the planet the
aliens intended for an uninhabited planet. Call it "Votanforming".
And no it wasn't nuclear tipped missiles that destroyed the Votan
fleet. If they were the Votans, peoples far more technologically
advanced than anything that Earth had, would've seen them coming and
destroyed them on their way up.
Within the show's-and originating video game-the Votan fleet was
either destroyed from within by a human guerilla fighter or some
superweapon the Votans were making that almost literally blew up in
their faces.
dx...@albury.nospam.net.au
Apr 25, 2013, 7:02:52 AM4/25/13
to
I was thinking "This is not so much 'Firefly' (as in this treads
Subject) but more like 'Battlestar Galactica' (either version)", but
then, when reading about us boarding their ships, I was thinking it was
sounding more like 'V' or 'Independence Day'.
Daniel
Hunter
Apr 25, 2013, 10:07:06 AM4/25/13
to
The "terraforming" was an accident.
Firstly the Aliens didn't know that the Earth was populated when the
aliens, collectively called the Votans got here. They were negotiating
plans for settlement with the United Nations when war broke out.
Then either a Earth supremist sabotage the ships or a faction amoung
the aliens tested a weapon and it went badly destroyed the alien fleet
and all their terraforming tech was dumped on Earth at the same time
with no planning or guidence, resulting in the haphazzard mess
including MASSIVE geological change as well as in the species of Earth
as the results of invasive alien plants and animals and insects.
None of this was planned.
>
>Also, secondly, if they terraformed the planet, what kind of process did
>they use that the St. Louis arch is still standing, albeit broken?
------
>Also, secondly, if they terraformed the planet, what kind of process did
>they use that the St. Louis arch is still standing, albeit broken?
Pure chance. You see this with real life disasters. An earthquake or a
tornado or a hurricane or a bomb blast destroys a building, ripping
half of it away but somehow, amazingly, the good china are still
stacked neatly in the cubbard in the kitchen with cups still on their
hooks or the shoes still lined up in military formation in some dude's
closet even if the closet is the only thing left of that building's
floor or someother crazy one million to one odds incident.
In this case while most of Earths other cities were obliterated, the
crust of the Earth happened to fold *over* most of "Old St.
Louis"-away from the arch-covering most of the city. The arch happened
to be on ground that remained above ground and relatively undisturbed,
so it survived mostly intact and above ground.
Adam H. Kerman
Apr 25, 2013, 9:35:42 AM4/25/13
to
Bullshit crosspost to Firefly group cut.
You don't know it wasn't sabotage.
>Firstly the Aliens didn't know that the Earth was populated when the
>aliens, collectively called the Votans got here. They were negotiating
>plans for settlement with the United Nations when war broke out.
I cannot suspend disbelief for aliens capable of travelling here who
can't tell that a planet is populated. That's incredibly sucky writing.
You don't know it wasn't sabotage.
>Firstly the Aliens didn't know that the Earth was populated when the
>aliens, collectively called the Votans got here. They were negotiating
>plans for settlement with the United Nations when war broke out.
can't tell that a planet is populated. That's incredibly sucky writing.
inf...@mindspring.com
Apr 25, 2013, 11:13:09 AM4/25/13
to
On Thu, 25 Apr 2013 11:45:17 GMT, Hunter <buffh...@my-deja.com>
(Hunter) wrote:
>
>And no it wasn't nuclear tipped missiles that destroyed the Votan
>fleet. If they were the Votans, peoples far more technologically
>advanced than anything that Earth had, would've seen them coming and
>destroyed them on their way up.
>
But if the Votans didn't know Earth was inhabited, why would they have
(Hunter) wrote:
>
>And no it wasn't nuclear tipped missiles that destroyed the Votan
>fleet. If they were the Votans, peoples far more technologically
>advanced than anything that Earth had, would've seen them coming and
>destroyed them on their way up.
>
been prepared to deal with nuclear tipped missles?
David Johnston
Apr 25, 2013, 12:18:12 PM4/25/13
to
didn't know it when they set out.
Adam H. Kerman
Apr 25, 2013, 12:46:42 PM4/25/13
to
jack
Apr 25, 2013, 1:16:25 PM4/25/13
to
>
>
>
> In this case while most of Earths other cities were obliterated, the
>
> crust of the Earth happened to fold *over* most of "Old St.
>
> Louis"-away from the arch-covering most of the city. The arch happened
>
> to be on ground that remained above ground and relatively undisturbed,
>
> so it survived mostly intact and above ground.
>
>
>
> ------>Hunter
>
I point to the movie OBLIVION -- spoilers --
where it is shown that post-apocalyptic New York has the Empire State building buried up to the base of its observation tower, yet not far away and certainly not at the degree of slope in the cover-soil needed we see tops of neighboring buildings [note: the destructive event only took place in 2017] and Cruise is able to break in through the nearly-exposed roof of the NY Public Library, all of about six or seven stories high and just eight blocks or so north of the Empire State. Writers create geography to suit their own dramatic needs.
David Johnston
Apr 25, 2013, 1:50:24 PM4/25/13
to
Hunter
Apr 25, 2013, 11:46:42 PM4/25/13
to
Excellent sumation.
Hunter
Apr 26, 2013, 7:01:37 AM4/26/13
to
Presumably they would have the ability to defend their ships from
attack as they traveled though space. At anyrate they were able to
wage war against Earth so they had some sort of weaponry.
We are on the verge to really having the much maligned Stratigic
Defense Initiative or "Star Wars" ability to shoot down ICBMs with our
present technology which includes energy weapons like lasers and
compared to the Aliens our tech is primative. I belive that they have
some sort of laser system or the equivalent to handle our slow moving
ICBMs.
Hunter
Apr 26, 2013, 1:45:10 PM4/26/13
to
On Thu, 25 Apr 2013 10:16:25 -0700 (PDT), jack <jr...@columbia.edu>
wrote:
>
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> ------>Hunter
>>=20
>
>
>Perhaps, but also perhaps to the needs of the writers to keep the arch abov=
>e ground as a symbol and not paying enough attention to the mechanics of su=
>ch a massive ground shift that could bury much of St. Louis but not cause t=
>he arch to fall from the shock of it even if it stayed out of the path of d=
>estruction. It is only a couple of hundred meters from the downtown area. =
>=20
>ing buried up to the base of its observation tower, yet not far away and c=
>ertainly not at the degree of slope in the cover-soil needed we see tops of=
> neighboring buildings [note: the destructive event only took place in 2017=
>] and Cruise is able to break in through the nearly-exposed roof of the NY =
>Public Library, all of about six or seven stories high and just eight block=
>s or so north of the Empire State. Writers create geography to suit their=
> own dramatic needs. =20
----
Sure, but depending on what caused all this (I haven't seen the movie)
it could reflect reality in that disasters are haphazard, like the
cliche of a firestorm or a tornado buring down/ blasting every house
on the block except one or two that somehow in some way remained not
only totally in tact but livable. Why would the storm destroy all the
others except those two? Pure chance.
How did New York's landscape get churned up?
wrote:
>
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> In this case while most of Earths other cities were obliterated, the
>>=20
>> crust of the Earth happened to fold *over* most of "Old St.
>>=20
>> Louis"-away from the arch-covering most of the city. The arch happened
>>=20
>> to be on ground that remained above ground and relatively undisturbed,
>>=20
>> so it survived mostly intact and above ground.
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> ------>Hunter
>>=20
>
>
>Perhaps, but also perhaps to the needs of the writers to keep the arch abov=
>e ground as a symbol and not paying enough attention to the mechanics of su=
>ch a massive ground shift that could bury much of St. Louis but not cause t=
>he arch to fall from the shock of it even if it stayed out of the path of d=
>estruction. It is only a couple of hundred meters from the downtown area. =
>=20
>
>I point to the movie OBLIVION -- spoilers --
>
>where it is shown that post-apocalyptic New York has the Empire State build=
>I point to the movie OBLIVION -- spoilers --
>
>ing buried up to the base of its observation tower, yet not far away and c=
>ertainly not at the degree of slope in the cover-soil needed we see tops of=
> neighboring buildings [note: the destructive event only took place in 2017=
>] and Cruise is able to break in through the nearly-exposed roof of the NY =
>Public Library, all of about six or seven stories high and just eight block=
>s or so north of the Empire State. Writers create geography to suit their=
> own dramatic needs. =20
----
Sure, but depending on what caused all this (I haven't seen the movie)
it could reflect reality in that disasters are haphazard, like the
cliche of a firestorm or a tornado buring down/ blasting every house
on the block except one or two that somehow in some way remained not
only totally in tact but livable. Why would the storm destroy all the
others except those two? Pure chance.
How did New York's landscape get churned up?
Hunter
Apr 26, 2013, 7:20:41 PM4/26/13
to
On Sat, 20 Apr 2013 14:10:00 -0400, shawn <nanof...@gNOTmail.com>
wrote:
>On Sat, 20 Apr 2013 12:02:10 -0500, Lynn McGuire <l...@winsim.com>
>wrote:
>alien ships which triggered an uncontrolled terraforming. So the world
>isn't the way humans or aliens wanted it. The destruction of the alien
>ark ships also led to the death of most of the aliens. So we are
>dealing with a population of humans and aliens that has been decimated
>(so to speak.)
-----
Exactly.
wrote:
>On Sat, 20 Apr 2013 12:02:10 -0500, Lynn McGuire <l...@winsim.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On 4/20/2013 5:32 AM, Barry Margolin wrote:
>>On 4/20/2013 5:32 AM, Barry Margolin wrote:
>>> In article <kktaor$iec$1...@dont-email.me>, Lynn McGuire <l...@winsim.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I was watching "Defiance" with the wife and
>>>> daughter tonight and they both said it looked
>>>> familiar to them. And then we all said
>>>> "Firefly"! So is "Defiance" the new "Firefly"?
>>>
>>> I guess so.
>>>
>>> I can understand why society might revert in the "Revolution" scenario,
>>> but why would it happen after alien colonization?
>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I was watching "Defiance" with the wife and
>>>> daughter tonight and they both said it looked
>>>> familiar to them. And then we all said
>>>> "Firefly"! So is "Defiance" the new "Firefly"?
>>>
>>> I guess so.
>>>
>>> I can understand why society might revert in the "Revolution" scenario,
>>> but why would it happen after alien colonization?
>>
>>The Earth was terraformed by the aliens and then
>>there were massive wars. They said that St. Louis
>>is renamed Defiance because that is where the
>>soldiers on both sides refused to fight anymore.
>>
>>Anyway, the terraforming was very disruptive (where
>>is the Mississippi river?) and many, many, many
>>people died with all the new plants and animals.
>>And wars on extremely tough on the native population.
>>Humans.
>>
>
>It wasn't a planned teraforming. Apparently someone destroyed the
>>there were massive wars. They said that St. Louis
>>is renamed Defiance because that is where the
>>soldiers on both sides refused to fight anymore.
>>
>>Anyway, the terraforming was very disruptive (where
>>is the Mississippi river?) and many, many, many
>>people died with all the new plants and animals.
>>And wars on extremely tough on the native population.
>>Humans.
>>
>
>alien ships which triggered an uncontrolled terraforming. So the world
>isn't the way humans or aliens wanted it. The destruction of the alien
>ark ships also led to the death of most of the aliens. So we are
>dealing with a population of humans and aliens that has been decimated
>(so to speak.)
-----
Exactly.
Hunter
Apr 26, 2013, 9:44:13 PM4/26/13
to
On Mon, 22 Apr 2013 01:42:47 -0600, David Johnston <Da...@block.net>
wrote:
>On 4/20/2013 2:53 PM, Alan wrote:
>> The use of the word "terraforming" seems a bit odd. At least in
>> normal SF, that means changing a world to an earthlike environment,
>> not what we are seeing.
>
>It is still an earthlike environment. It's just a different earthlike
>environment.
----
Earth *like* but not Earth identical but yes they terraformed "Terra".
wrote:
>On 4/20/2013 2:53 PM, Alan wrote:
>> The use of the word "terraforming" seems a bit odd. At least in
>> normal SF, that means changing a world to an earthlike environment,
>> not what we are seeing.
>
>environment.
----
Earth *like* but not Earth identical but yes they terraformed "Terra".
Dragon Lady
Apr 26, 2013, 11:44:42 PM4/26/13
to
"Dimensional Traveler" <dtr...@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:5178aecf$0$52802$742e...@news.sonic.net...
about *only* SF or *only* relationships. Are you saying it's the latter?
Ken from Chicago
Apr 27, 2013, 8:54:38 AM4/27/13
to
"Dani...@teranews.com" <dx...@albury.nospam.net.au> wrote in message
news:A38et.15234$sI....@newsfe20.iad...
<snip>
> Thanks for that description, Ken, but ..... after your first paragraph, I
> was thinking "This is not so much 'Firefly' (as in this treads Subject)
> but more like 'Battlestar Galactica' (either version)", but then, when
> reading about us boarding their ships, I was thinking it was sounding more
> like 'V' or 'Independence Day'.
>
> Daniel
Correct, the only resemblance to FIREFLY is superficial at best, small-town,
dirt roads and maybe the use of swinging doors on bars. Personally it
reminded me more of FARSCAPE, which isn't too much of a surprise since
DEFIANCE's creator, Rockne S. O'Bannon, also created FARSCAPE.
-- Ken from Chicago
news:A38et.15234$sI....@newsfe20.iad...
<snip>
> Thanks for that description, Ken, but ..... after your first paragraph, I
> was thinking "This is not so much 'Firefly' (as in this treads Subject)
> but more like 'Battlestar Galactica' (either version)", but then, when
> reading about us boarding their ships, I was thinking it was sounding more
> like 'V' or 'Independence Day'.
>
> Daniel
dirt roads and maybe the use of swinging doors on bars. Personally it
reminded me more of FARSCAPE, which isn't too much of a surprise since
DEFIANCE's creator, Rockne S. O'Bannon, also created FARSCAPE.
-- Ken from Chicago
Dimensional Traveler
Apr 27, 2013, 7:04:36 PM4/27/13
to
I also think the writers aren't even going to try to be consistent
because no one really thought the setup through all the way. Little
things like all vehicles are "rollers". Not "trucks" or "cars". When
did "police" become "lawkeeper"? Etc.
David Johnston
Apr 27, 2013, 7:23:02 PM4/27/13
to
Jeanne Douglas
Apr 27, 2013, 8:10:41 PM4/27/13
to
In article <klhmeg$147$1...@dont-email.me>,
And when there's more than 30 years of backstory available for
story'telling.
--
JD
"Osama Bin Laden is dead and GM is alive."--VP Joseph Biden
story'telling.
--
JD
"Osama Bin Laden is dead and GM is alive."--VP Joseph Biden
Jeanne Douglas
Apr 27, 2013, 8:13:42 PM4/27/13
to
In article <klghkn$10j$1...@dont-email.me>,
Which I've been compelled to begin watching again on my Roku--7 episodes
so far just this week.
so far just this week.
Hunter
Apr 28, 2013, 7:12:36 AM4/28/13
to
They didn't know that Earth was inhabited by intelligent sapient life
when they started out 5,000 years ago. They didn't figure that a
civilization would spring up in that time. When they left their home
system, recorded history was just starting on Earth in 3,000 BC, maybe
a thousand years before. The Egyptians was a thriving civilization
back then but it is possible that the Vortan technology while much,
much further ahead of ours and can detect whether a planet is
habitable or not thousands if not hundreds of thousands of light years
from them, they probably still can't see such a primitive Earth
civilization from that far away.
Ken from Chicago
Apr 28, 2013, 8:00:51 AM4/28/13
to
"Hunter (Hunter)" <buffh...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:517d0419...@news.optonline.net...
<snip>
>>I cannot suspend disbelief for aliens capable of travelling here who
>>can't tell that a planet is populated. That's incredibly sucky writing.
> -----
> They didn't know that Earth was inhabited by intelligent sapient life
> when they started out 5,000 years ago. They didn't figure that a
> civilization would spring up in that time. When they left their home
> system, recorded history was just starting on Earth in 3,000 BC, maybe
> a thousand years before. The Egyptians was a thriving civilization
> back then but it is possible that the Vortan technology while much,
> much further ahead of ours and can detect whether a planet is
> habitable or not thousands if not hundreds of thousands of light years
> from them, they probably still can't see such a primitive Earth
> civilization from that far away.
>
> ------>Hunter
>
> "No man in the wrong can stand up against
> a fellow that's in the right and keeps on acomin'."
>
> -----William J. McDonald
> Captain, Texas Rangers from 1891 to 1907
were scanning for habitable planets. Earth's society could have been a lot
more primitive than the Egyptians. Plus we don't know what the Votans
considered "habitable". They could have just been looking for a planet about
1 A.U. from a yellow star. They had xenoforming systems to fine-tune the
rest of the planet to their liking.
-- Ken from Chicago
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Apr 29, 2013, 12:36:36 PM4/29/13
to
Dimensional Traveler <dtr...@sonic.net> wrote in
news:517c5981$0$52771$742e...@news.sonic.net:
professional wrestling.
--
Terry Austin
"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek
Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Dragon Lady
May 1, 2013, 3:16:24 PM5/1/13
to
news:517c5981$0$52771$742e...@news.sonic.net...
Seriously? How far in the future is this supposed to be, and when did they
kill off all the adults who would have used the words we use now?
kill off all the adults who would have used the words we use now?
Dragon Lady
May 1, 2013, 3:19:10 PM5/1/13
to
"Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy" <taus...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:XnsA1B161C285D...@69.16.186.50...
act - and not even a good act. They couldn't even get that right!
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
May 1, 2013, 4:25:58 PM5/1/13
to
"Dragon Lady" <sgt...@comcast.net> wrote in
news:klrpcv$h3$1...@dont-email.me:
They get paid to do it, so it's professional. The proper question
is "What's wrestling about it?"
> It's all
> one big act - and not even a good act. They couldn't even get
> that right!
>
The important thing to remember is that in California, professional
wrestling isn't regulated by the Sports Commission, it's regulated
by the Entertainment Commission.
Justl ike all reality TV shows have a writing staff.
news:klrpcv$h3$1...@dont-email.me:
is "What's wrestling about it?"
> It's all
> one big act - and not even a good act. They couldn't even get
> that right!
>
wrestling isn't regulated by the Sports Commission, it's regulated
by the Entertainment Commission.
Justl ike all reality TV shows have a writing staff.
David Johnston
May 1, 2013, 4:28:11 PM5/1/13
to
increases the effective difference.
inf...@mindspring.com
May 1, 2013, 4:40:43 PM5/1/13
to
On Wed, 01 May 2013 14:28:11 -0600, David Johnston <Da...@block.net>
wrote:
>>
he knew as a kid before the invasion.
wrote:
>>
>> Seriously? How far in the future is this supposed to be, and when did
>> they kill off all the adults who would have used the words we use now?
>>
>
>About sixty years in the future although being post-apocalypse kind of
>increases the effective difference.
More like thirty years. Nolan reminisces about places in St Loius that
>> they kill off all the adults who would have used the words we use now?
>>
>
>About sixty years in the future although being post-apocalypse kind of
>increases the effective difference.
he knew as a kid before the invasion.
Message has been deleted
David Johnston
May 1, 2013, 5:25:44 PM5/1/13
to
inf...@mindspring.com
May 1, 2013, 10:17:18 PM5/1/13
to
On Wed, 01 May 2013 15:25:44 -0600, David Johnston <Da...@block.net>
effect such sweeping societal and language changes? Presumably, before
the invasion not much was different than it is today.
wrote:
>On 5/1/2013 2:40 PM, inf...@mindspring.com wrote:
>> On Wed, 01 May 2013 14:28:11 -0600, David Johnston <Da...@block.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>>
>>>> Seriously? How far in the future is this supposed to be, and when did
>>>> they kill off all the adults who would have used the words we use now?
>>>>
>>>
>>> About sixty years in the future although being post-apocalypse kind of
>>> increases the effective difference.
>>
>> More like thirty years. Nolan reminisces about places in St Loius that
>> he knew as a kid before the invasion.
>>
>
>The invasion doesn't happen next Tuesday. It's decades in the future.
The question was: Has there been sufficient time since the invasion to
>On 5/1/2013 2:40 PM, inf...@mindspring.com wrote:
>> On Wed, 01 May 2013 14:28:11 -0600, David Johnston <Da...@block.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>>
>>>> Seriously? How far in the future is this supposed to be, and when did
>>>> they kill off all the adults who would have used the words we use now?
>>>>
>>>
>>> About sixty years in the future although being post-apocalypse kind of
>>> increases the effective difference.
>>
>> More like thirty years. Nolan reminisces about places in St Loius that
>> he knew as a kid before the invasion.
>>
>
>The invasion doesn't happen next Tuesday. It's decades in the future.
effect such sweeping societal and language changes? Presumably, before
the invasion not much was different than it is today.
dx...@albury.nospam.net.au
May 2, 2013, 8:59:39 AM5/2/13
to
Dimensional Traveler wrote:
<Snip>
Don't know about overseas, but here in Australia we used to have "Police
Forces". Now we have "Police Services" ... makes them sound nicer, I guess.
Daniel
<Snip>
> I also think the writers aren't even going to try to be consistent
> because no one really thought the setup through all the way. Little
> things like all vehicles are "rollers". Not "trucks" or "cars". When
> did "police" become "lawkeeper"? Etc.
What's in a name??
> because no one really thought the setup through all the way. Little
> things like all vehicles are "rollers". Not "trucks" or "cars". When
> did "police" become "lawkeeper"? Etc.
Don't know about overseas, but here in Australia we used to have "Police
Forces". Now we have "Police Services" ... makes them sound nicer, I guess.
Daniel
Message has been deleted
jack
May 2, 2013, 10:01:16 AM5/2/13
to
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
xx
Extreme use of nukes by the defending Earthers who felt they had no alternative but to destroy the planet to save it from invasion by the aliens who had their own super-tech weapons. And as the ads for the movie have shown, there is an Earth where you have bands of humans eking out a life in post-apocalyptic conditions, in those areas not contaminated by radiation.
But as to Defiance, yes, there are climatic anomalies, but still in this case, there was accidental terraforming that somehow sunk a good chunk of downtown St. Louis underground and covered it up while somewhere nearby raising flat land into large canyons, all leaving the arch standing. That's a lot of physical force to be exerted in a small area not to affect a huge object literally a couple of football fields away.
David Johnston
May 2, 2013, 6:07:31 PM5/2/13
to
"car" to "roller" that sort of thing can happen in 60 years pretty
randomly even without an apocalypse. I expect that calling law
enforcement officers "lawkeepers" is done deliberately because one or
more of the wacky alien cultures gives a lot of respect to people called
"lawkeepers".
David Johnston
May 2, 2013, 6:08:40 PM5/2/13
to
On 5/2/2013 7:54 AM, je.s...@hehxduhmp.org wrote:
>
Ah. I appreciate your correction although frankly I would have
preferred it the other way. But then I had the same beef with Star Trek.
> In rec.arts.sf.tv David Johnston <Da...@block.net> wrote:
>> The invasion doesn't happen next Tuesday. It's decades in the future.
>
> Actually the arrival of the aliens was supposed to be in present time.
>> The invasion doesn't happen next Tuesday. It's decades in the future.
>
>
Ah. I appreciate your correction although frankly I would have
preferred it the other way. But then I had the same beef with Star Trek.
Dimensional Traveler
May 2, 2013, 11:19:40 PM5/2/13
to
aliens first arrived.
Dimensional Traveler
May 2, 2013, 11:21:16 PM5/2/13
to
Ken from Chicago
May 2, 2013, 11:41:20 PM5/2/13
to
"David Johnston" <Da...@block.net> wrote in message
news:klunuq$bh4$3...@dont-email.me...
Here's the timeline:
http://www.defiance.com/en/series/world-of-2046/invasion-timeline
Yes, the alien, Votans, arrive in Earth orbit in 2013, but between
negotiations, settlements, wars, etc. the show is set 33 years later, in
2046.
That said, in an Earth devastated by global war and xenoforming and
resettlements by human/Votan groups, it kinda makes sense that some words
would be altered like in bordertowns or port-cities settled by a large
number of immigrants in human history who cobble together a common language.
-- Ken from Chicago
news:klunuq$bh4$3...@dont-email.me...
http://www.defiance.com/en/series/world-of-2046/invasion-timeline
Yes, the alien, Votans, arrive in Earth orbit in 2013, but between
negotiations, settlements, wars, etc. the show is set 33 years later, in
2046.
That said, in an Earth devastated by global war and xenoforming and
resettlements by human/Votan groups, it kinda makes sense that some words
would be altered like in bordertowns or port-cities settled by a large
number of immigrants in human history who cobble together a common language.
-- Ken from Chicago
Adam H. Kerman
May 3, 2013, 12:33:44 AM5/3/13
to
Bullshit crosspost to Firely newsgroup cut
Ken from Chicago <ken...@ymail.com> wrote:
Ken from Chicago <ken...@ymail.com> wrote:
>"David Johnston" <Da...@block.net> wrote:
>>On 5/2/2013 7:54 AM, je.s...@hehxduhmp.org wrote:
>>>David Johnston <Da...@block.net> wrote:
>>>>The invasion doesn't happen next Tuesday. It's decades in the future.
>>>Actually the arrival of the aliens was supposed to be in present time.
>>Ah. I appreciate your correction although frankly I would have preferred
>>it the other way. But then I had the same beef with Star Trek.
>Here's the timeline:
Who the fuck cares what it says on the Web. It wasn't explained on television.
>>On 5/2/2013 7:54 AM, je.s...@hehxduhmp.org wrote:
>>>David Johnston <Da...@block.net> wrote:
>>>>The invasion doesn't happen next Tuesday. It's decades in the future.
>>>Actually the arrival of the aliens was supposed to be in present time.
>>Ah. I appreciate your correction although frankly I would have preferred
>>it the other way. But then I had the same beef with Star Trek.
>Here's the timeline:
Dimensional Traveler
May 3, 2013, 9:37:09 PM5/3/13
to
in the game. :P
Tony Calguire
May 4, 2013, 1:13:37 PM5/4/13
to
inf...@mindspring.com wrote in
news:v2j3o8t96b8m7cdfb...@4ax.com:
>
> The question was: Has there been sufficient time since the invasion to
> effect such sweeping societal and language changes? Presumably, before
> the invasion not much was different than it is today.
Computer programs became "applications", and applications became "apps", in
barely 20 years.
news:v2j3o8t96b8m7cdfb...@4ax.com:
>
> The question was: Has there been sufficient time since the invasion to
> effect such sweeping societal and language changes? Presumably, before
> the invasion not much was different than it is today.
barely 20 years.
Dimensional Traveler
May 4, 2013, 11:44:15 PM5/4/13
to
dx...@albury.nospam.net.au
May 5, 2013, 5:41:04 AM5/5/13
to
Dimensional Traveler wrote:
> On 5/4/2013 10:13 AM, Tony Calguire wrote:
>> inf...@mindspring.com wrote in
>> news:v2j3o8t96b8m7cdfb...@4ax.com:
>>
>>>
>>> The question was: Has there been sufficient time since the invasion to
>>> effect such sweeping societal and language changes? Presumably, before
>>> the invasion not much was different than it is today.
>>
>>
>> Computer programs became "applications", and applications became
>> "apps", in
>> barely 20 years.
>>
> And yet cars are still cars and police are still police.
>
but aren't police about to become "Law Enforcers"??
> On 5/4/2013 10:13 AM, Tony Calguire wrote:
>> inf...@mindspring.com wrote in
>> news:v2j3o8t96b8m7cdfb...@4ax.com:
>>
>>>
>>> The question was: Has there been sufficient time since the invasion to
>>> effect such sweeping societal and language changes? Presumably, before
>>> the invasion not much was different than it is today.
>>
>>
>> Computer programs became "applications", and applications became
>> "apps", in
>> barely 20 years.
>>
> And yet cars are still cars and police are still police.
>
Daniel
Dimensional Traveler
May 5, 2013, 10:50:54 PM5/5/13
to
Dragon Lady
May 7, 2013, 6:28:51 AM5/7/13
to
news:51846643$0$52765$742e...@news.sonic.net...
people who just don't have the time or energy (or interest) to do both.
> On 5/2/2013 9:33 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
>> Bullshit crosspost to Firely newsgroup cut
>>
>> Ken from Chicago <ken...@ymail.com> wrote:
>>> "David Johnston" <Da...@block.net> wrote:
>>>> On 5/2/2013 7:54 AM, je.s...@hehxduhmp.org wrote:
>>>>> David Johnston <Da...@block.net> wrote:
>>
>>>>>> The invasion doesn't happen next Tuesday. It's decades in the
>>>>>> future.
>>
>>>>> Actually the arrival of the aliens was supposed to be in present time.
>>
>>>> Ah. I appreciate your correction although frankly I would have
>>>> preferred
>>>> it the other way. But then I had the same beef with Star Trek.
>>
>>> Here's the timeline:
>>
>> Who the fuck cares what it says on the Web. It wasn't explained on
>> television.
>>
> Its an incentive to play the game. Half the story on TV, half the story
> in the game. :P
Frankly - that's stupid. Why play or watch? They're making it too hard for
>> Bullshit crosspost to Firely newsgroup cut
>>
>> Ken from Chicago <ken...@ymail.com> wrote:
>>> "David Johnston" <Da...@block.net> wrote:
>>>> On 5/2/2013 7:54 AM, je.s...@hehxduhmp.org wrote:
>>>>> David Johnston <Da...@block.net> wrote:
>>
>>>>>> The invasion doesn't happen next Tuesday. It's decades in the
>>>>>> future.
>>
>>>>> Actually the arrival of the aliens was supposed to be in present time.
>>
>>>> Ah. I appreciate your correction although frankly I would have
>>>> preferred
>>>> it the other way. But then I had the same beef with Star Trek.
>>
>>> Here's the timeline:
>>
>> Who the fuck cares what it says on the Web. It wasn't explained on
>> television.
>>
> Its an incentive to play the game. Half the story on TV, half the story
> in the game. :P
people who just don't have the time or energy (or interest) to do both.
Dragon Lady
May 7, 2013, 6:30:34 AM5/7/13
to
"Tony Calguire" <tc...@yahoo.invalid> wrote in message
news:km3fk0$uea$2...@dont-email.me...
specialty that became a part of the common language. Changing cars to
rollers (or whatever it was) just doesn't follow that same progression.
Dimensional Traveler
May 7, 2013, 10:34:25 PM5/7/13
to
Personally, I agree with you and not just for the reason you gave.
Games are an entirely different medium from TV, they are not suited for
the same kinds of stories. Problem is the money hungry idijts in charge
only see it as a chance to use the show to sell the game and the game to
sell the show.
Rosa Winkel
May 8, 2013, 12:53:40 PM5/8/13
to
Dimensional Traveler <dtr...@sonic.net> ::
following more than one. For example, some Big Finish
stories are done in both novels and audiobooks. I listen to
the Bernice Summerfield audiobooks, but don't read the
novels. Most adventures are mostly standalone, but
sometimes elements do carry over. For example, she gave
birth in one of the novels, with her son being a new
continuing character appearing almost from nowhere if you
only listen to the audiobooks.
> Games are an entirely different medium from TV,
> they are not suited for the same kinds of stories.
Even when the mediums are closer, you can't count on people
> they are not suited for the same kinds of stories.
following more than one. For example, some Big Finish
stories are done in both novels and audiobooks. I listen to
the Bernice Summerfield audiobooks, but don't read the
novels. Most adventures are mostly standalone, but
sometimes elements do carry over. For example, she gave
birth in one of the novels, with her son being a new
continuing character appearing almost from nowhere if you
only listen to the audiobooks.
Ken from Chicago
May 10, 2013, 7:54:24 AM5/10/13
to
It's not HALF the story on tv and the game it's TWICE the story.
Don't want to play the game? Fine, the tv show will tell a story that stands
on its own (mainly in and around St. Louis).
Don't want to see the show? Fine, the game will tell a story that stands on
its own (mainly in and around San Francisco).
They are both set in the same world and are linked. Characters can cross the
"Badlands", where there are permanent superstorms, between the two cities,
but it's not like game players are going to be showing up willy nilly on
every episode of the tv show or directly altering the show's story.
Speaking of story, can a video game telling a decent coherent story? Yeah,
yes it can. In fact, as an online rpg, it can be very much like a tv series
in telling an ONGOING story. How the frell could the Romulans get caught
totally off guard by their star going supernova--much less how could one
star going supernova threaten the galaxy in 2009's STAR TREK? That's
actually a question that's answered in the STAR TREK ONLINE game. It's not
the only good storylines included in the game, nor is it the only game that
includes good storylines.
Of course what's possible in general isn't necessarily the same as what's
true in specific. How well does DEFIANCE the game tell stories? Frankly, I
don't know, since it's a Buy 2 Play game and there are a lot of good Free 2
Play games available as alternatives*. I haven't plunked down the $60 for
DEFIANCE the game. So while it could be good at telling its own stories, it
could also be crap at it. However the medium is not the message.
The irony is that a lot of video games, especially those that are tie-ins to
movies or tv shows, have tended to focus more on telling stories (often in
hi-res cut scenes where players just watch instead of interacting with the
scene) versus having fun game play.
* Game jargon:
--MMORPG: Massively Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game aka MMO. Hundreds
of not thousands of players can play online in the same virtual world (as
opposed to the few dozen in regular multiplayer video games of the 1990s)
that continues to exist even after any individual logs off (as opposed to
video games in the 1990s that were more like "rounds" of mini-golf so when
the round was over and the last player quit the game reset itself.
Traditional fantasy is the dominant theme tho there has been a rise in
traditional scifi, themed MMO's also a handful of superhero themed MMO's
(altho the trailblazer, CITY OF HEROES, closed last December after 8 years)
--Buy 2 Play: You pay a one-time fee and get lifetime online access (or at
least the lifetime of the company)
--Free 2 Play: You can play for free, but the gamemakers sell digital
costumes, cosmetic items, cosmetic vehicles (things that have no effect on
playing the game other than how your characters look), short-term buffs,
conveniences, etc., (things that have very little effect on playing the
game, e.g., bigger storage containers let you collect more loot while
adventuring before having to seek a vendor to trade for money)
--Pay 2 Win: You can play the game for free but the gamemakers sell items
where you gain long-term or even permanent advantages, more powerful
weapons, stronger armor, faster vehicles, etc. most often that give you a
boost in combat with the computer characters or against other players in
ways that overcome a veteran player's skill. While it's overwhelmingly
despised in the West (Americas), it's quite popular in the East (Asia).
-- Ken from Chicago
Don't want to play the game? Fine, the tv show will tell a story that stands
on its own (mainly in and around St. Louis).
Don't want to see the show? Fine, the game will tell a story that stands on
its own (mainly in and around San Francisco).
They are both set in the same world and are linked. Characters can cross the
"Badlands", where there are permanent superstorms, between the two cities,
but it's not like game players are going to be showing up willy nilly on
every episode of the tv show or directly altering the show's story.
Speaking of story, can a video game telling a decent coherent story? Yeah,
yes it can. In fact, as an online rpg, it can be very much like a tv series
in telling an ONGOING story. How the frell could the Romulans get caught
totally off guard by their star going supernova--much less how could one
star going supernova threaten the galaxy in 2009's STAR TREK? That's
actually a question that's answered in the STAR TREK ONLINE game. It's not
the only good storylines included in the game, nor is it the only game that
includes good storylines.
Of course what's possible in general isn't necessarily the same as what's
true in specific. How well does DEFIANCE the game tell stories? Frankly, I
don't know, since it's a Buy 2 Play game and there are a lot of good Free 2
Play games available as alternatives*. I haven't plunked down the $60 for
DEFIANCE the game. So while it could be good at telling its own stories, it
could also be crap at it. However the medium is not the message.
The irony is that a lot of video games, especially those that are tie-ins to
movies or tv shows, have tended to focus more on telling stories (often in
hi-res cut scenes where players just watch instead of interacting with the
scene) versus having fun game play.
* Game jargon:
--MMORPG: Massively Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game aka MMO. Hundreds
of not thousands of players can play online in the same virtual world (as
opposed to the few dozen in regular multiplayer video games of the 1990s)
that continues to exist even after any individual logs off (as opposed to
video games in the 1990s that were more like "rounds" of mini-golf so when
the round was over and the last player quit the game reset itself.
Traditional fantasy is the dominant theme tho there has been a rise in
traditional scifi, themed MMO's also a handful of superhero themed MMO's
(altho the trailblazer, CITY OF HEROES, closed last December after 8 years)
--Buy 2 Play: You pay a one-time fee and get lifetime online access (or at
least the lifetime of the company)
--Free 2 Play: You can play for free, but the gamemakers sell digital
costumes, cosmetic items, cosmetic vehicles (things that have no effect on
playing the game other than how your characters look), short-term buffs,
conveniences, etc., (things that have very little effect on playing the
game, e.g., bigger storage containers let you collect more loot while
adventuring before having to seek a vendor to trade for money)
--Pay 2 Win: You can play the game for free but the gamemakers sell items
where you gain long-term or even permanent advantages, more powerful
weapons, stronger armor, faster vehicles, etc. most often that give you a
boost in combat with the computer characters or against other players in
ways that overcome a veteran player's skill. While it's overwhelmingly
despised in the West (Americas), it's quite popular in the East (Asia).
-- Ken from Chicago
Jim G.
May 10, 2013, 1:46:45 PM5/10/13
to
Dimensional Traveler sent the following on 5/7/2013 9:34 PM:
TV shows can complement each other quite nicely. But if your show is,
say, an adventure and your game is, say, a first-person shooter, then
you might have problems. But if both the game and the TV show are
shooters or if both the game and the TV show are adventures, then it can
work out just fine.
But any way that you slice it, when it comes to dishing out information,
online stuff and any games should *complement* the show itself, not
replace it. IMO, people shouldn't have to pay money (for Internet
service or a game) in order to fully understand what they need to
understand in order to follow the show. At the very least, if you plan
to violate this guideline, then you should give a warning at the
beginning of each TV episode so that those who are unwilling or unable
to pay the full price to get the full story can choose to bail out
before they get hooked on *part* of the story.
LOST, as an innovator in this area, *seemed* to violate this in the
past, but the ultimate irony in that instance was to learn that those
online games and online interviews and online DHARMA tapes and whatnot
meant absolutely nothing to the resolution of the various television
mysteries, as (in hindsight) there never was much of an intention to
resolve those television mysteries in the first place.
--
Jim G. | A fan of the good and the bad, but not the mediocre
"Can you and your stupid hair let us in?" -- Carlton Lassiter, PSYCH
> On 5/7/2013 3:28 AM, Dragon Lady wrote:
>>
>> "Dimensional Traveler" <dtr...@sonic.net> wrote in message
>> news:51846643$0$52765$742e...@news.sonic.net...
>>> On 5/2/2013 9:33 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
>>>> Bullshit crosspost to Firely newsgroup cut
>>>>
>>
>> "Dimensional Traveler" <dtr...@sonic.net> wrote in message
>> news:51846643$0$52765$742e...@news.sonic.net...
>>> On 5/2/2013 9:33 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
>>>> Bullshit crosspost to Firely newsgroup cut
>>>>
>>>> Who the fuck cares what it says on the Web. It wasn't explained on
>>>> television.
>>>>
>>> Its an incentive to play the game. Half the story on TV, half the
>>> story in the game. :P
>>
>> Frankly - that's stupid. Why play or watch? They're making it too hard
>> for people who just don't have the time or energy (or interest) to do both.
>
> That just makes them not part of the target audience. :D
>
> Personally, I agree with you and not just for the reason you gave.
> Games are an entirely different medium from TV, they are not suited for
> the same kinds of stories.
I disagree. As long as you're not mixing up your genres, then games and
>>>> television.
>>>>
>>> Its an incentive to play the game. Half the story on TV, half the
>>> story in the game. :P
>>
>> Frankly - that's stupid. Why play or watch? They're making it too hard
>> for people who just don't have the time or energy (or interest) to do both.
>
> That just makes them not part of the target audience. :D
>
> Personally, I agree with you and not just for the reason you gave.
> Games are an entirely different medium from TV, they are not suited for
> the same kinds of stories.
TV shows can complement each other quite nicely. But if your show is,
say, an adventure and your game is, say, a first-person shooter, then
you might have problems. But if both the game and the TV show are
shooters or if both the game and the TV show are adventures, then it can
work out just fine.
But any way that you slice it, when it comes to dishing out information,
online stuff and any games should *complement* the show itself, not
replace it. IMO, people shouldn't have to pay money (for Internet
service or a game) in order to fully understand what they need to
understand in order to follow the show. At the very least, if you plan
to violate this guideline, then you should give a warning at the
beginning of each TV episode so that those who are unwilling or unable
to pay the full price to get the full story can choose to bail out
before they get hooked on *part* of the story.
LOST, as an innovator in this area, *seemed* to violate this in the
past, but the ultimate irony in that instance was to learn that those
online games and online interviews and online DHARMA tapes and whatnot
meant absolutely nothing to the resolution of the various television
mysteries, as (in hindsight) there never was much of an intention to
resolve those television mysteries in the first place.
--
Jim G. | A fan of the good and the bad, but not the mediocre
"Can you and your stupid hair let us in?" -- Carlton Lassiter, PSYCH
Dragon Lady
May 15, 2013, 11:26:20 PM5/15/13
to
"Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy" <taus...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:XnsA1B388A5AA0...@69.16.186.50...
> "Dragon Lady" <sgt...@comcast.net> wrote in
> news:klrpcv$h3$1...@dont-email.me:
>
>>
>> "Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy" <taus...@gmail.com> wrote in
>> message news:XnsA1B161C285D...@69.16.186.50...
>>> Dimensional Traveler <dtr...@sonic.net> wrote in
>>> news:517c5981$0$52771$742e...@news.sonic.net:
>>>
>>>> On 4/26/2013 8:44 PM, Dragon Lady wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> "Dimensional Traveler" <dtr...@sonic.net> wrote in message
>>>> On 4/26/2013 8:44 PM, Dragon Lady wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> "Dimensional Traveler" <dtr...@sonic.net> wrote in message
>>> is professional wrestling.
>>
>> Professional wrestling? What's professional about it?
>
> They get paid to do it, so it's professional. The proper question
> is "What's wrestling about it?"
>
I stand corrected. Well, actually, I sit corrected, but you get my
drift....
>> It's all
>> one big act - and not even a good act. They couldn't even get
>> that right!
>>
> The important thing to remember is that in California, professional
> wrestling isn't regulated by the Sports Commission, it's regulated
> by the Entertainment Commission.
>
> Justl ike all reality TV shows have a writing staff.
They really should cough up the money to hire some *good* writing staff.
Dragon Lady
May 15, 2013, 11:30:51 PM5/15/13
to
news:5189b9b1$0$52736$742e...@news.sonic.net...
The problem lies in them making it necessary to watch AND play in order to
get the whole story. Most TV watchers don't hve time to play games, and
vice versa. So what it amounts to is, does their "target audience" even
exist?
get the whole story. Most TV watchers don't hve time to play games, and
vice versa. So what it amounts to is, does their "target audience" even
exist?
Dragon Lady
May 15, 2013, 11:36:44 PM5/15/13
to
"Ken from Chicago" <kwicker1...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:kmimun$ip6$1...@dont-email.me...
> It's not HALF the story on tv and the game it's TWICE the story.
>
> Don't want to play the game? Fine, the tv show will tell a story that
> stands on its own (mainly in and around St. Louis).
>
> Don't want to see the show? Fine, the game will tell a story that stands
> on its own (mainly in and around San Francisco).
That may be true, but it's not what they make it sound like.
>
> Don't want to play the game? Fine, the tv show will tell a story that
> stands on its own (mainly in and around St. Louis).
>
> Don't want to see the show? Fine, the game will tell a story that stands
> on its own (mainly in and around San Francisco).
>
> They are both set in the same world and are linked. Characters can cross
> the "Badlands", where there are permanent superstorms, between the two
> cities, but it's not like game players are going to be showing up willy
> nilly on every episode of the tv show or directly altering the show's
> story.
>
> Speaking of story, can a video game telling a decent coherent story? Yeah,
> yes it can. In fact, as an online rpg, it can be very much like a tv
> series in telling an ONGOING story. How the frell could the Romulans get
> caught totally off guard by their star going supernova--much less how
> could one star going supernova threaten the galaxy in 2009's STAR TREK?
> That's actually a question that's answered in the STAR TREK ONLINE game.
> It's not the only good storylines included in the game, nor is it the only
> game that includes good storylines.
You had to play the game too. Which is what they are making it sound like
Defiance is.
>
> Of course what's possible in general isn't necessarily the same as what's
> true in specific. How well does DEFIANCE the game tell stories? Frankly, I
> don't know, since it's a Buy 2 Play game and there are a lot of good Free
> 2 Play games available as alternatives*. I haven't plunked down the $60
> for DEFIANCE the game. So while it could be good at telling its own
> stories, it could also be crap at it. However the medium is not the
> message.
>
> The irony is that a lot of video games, especially those that are tie-ins
> to movies or tv shows, have tended to focus more on telling stories (often
> in hi-res cut scenes where players just watch instead of interacting with
> the scene) versus having fun game play.
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
May 16, 2013, 12:58:17 PM5/16/13
to
"Dragon Lady" <sgt...@comcast.net> wrote in
news:kn1j6i$o4r$1...@dont-email.me:
>
>>> It's all
>>> one big act - and not even a good act. They couldn't even get
>>> that right!
>>>
>> The important thing to remember is that in California,
>> professional wrestling isn't regulated by the Sports
>> Commission, it's regulated by the Entertainment Commission.
>>
>> Justl ike all reality TV shows have a writing staff.
>
> They really should cough up the money to hire some *good*
> writing staff.
>
Is there a TV show in existence that can't be said of?
>>> It's all
>>> one big act - and not even a good act. They couldn't even get
>>> that right!
>>>
>> The important thing to remember is that in California,
>> professional wrestling isn't regulated by the Sports
>> Commission, it's regulated by the Entertainment Commission.
>>
>> Justl ike all reality TV shows have a writing staff.
>
> They really should cough up the money to hire some *good*
> writing staff.
>
--
Terry Austin
"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek
Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Dragon Lady
May 17, 2013, 12:35:43 AM5/17/13
to
news:XnsA1C2656F550...@69.16.186.7...
Yes. Unfortunatly, it's never true consistently.
Lone Browncoat
May 19, 2013, 11:55:54 AM5/19/13
to
A little necropost to add my .02.....
Firefly, I miss being on the air......
but too late for a revival now, eg. while
Summer Glau is still cute, she could no longer pass for 17.
At least "Serenity" had offered some closure.
I could care less if "Defiance" gets the boot,
It seems more like a make work project, even though
a couple of my faves are getting paycheques from the
show {Julie Benz, whom I've liked from "Angel" to
"No Ordinary Family" that should have been renewed.}
Defiance getting canceled wouldn't bother me.
Firefly, I miss being on the air......
but too late for a revival now, eg. while
Summer Glau is still cute, she could no longer pass for 17.
At least "Serenity" had offered some closure.
I could care less if "Defiance" gets the boot,
It seems more like a make work project, even though
a couple of my faves are getting paycheques from the
show {Julie Benz, whom I've liked from "Angel" to
"No Ordinary Family" that should have been renewed.}
Defiance getting canceled wouldn't bother me.
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