FRINGE Dec 10 - Grey Matters
Dawnie
interdimensional war storyline 8-). And another fantastic performance
by John Noble!
As luck would have it, we finally get a great episode which I'm
thrilled to give a solid 5 rating, and my newsreader/NSP promptly
loses George's poll thread. (I suppose Google's still broken?)
Nice to finally see Tiny Headphones (some see the Omega symbol, I see
little headphones) in action, played by Sebastian Roche, and he's
deliciously evil like Bell warned. <to Liv> "Now I know how weak you
are." Ooooooh. There's more than one way to get inside someone's head,
you know. It was also nice seeing Jeff Perry again (Thatcher Grey,
GREY'S ANATOMY), with his exposed brain.
I'm so thrilled to get some main arc development that I'm happy to
forgive niggling details like how it seemed way too easy for them to
piece things together so quickly, even if we all know Walter's a
genius. And Liv trusting that Tiny Headphones was telling the truth
about saving Walter--how much would it suck if she let him go, *and*
Walter died! But she did do a nice job of shooting both the driver of
the van and his compatriot in the head. I was a little disappointed
that she didn't go all Jack Bauer on him and shoot out a kneecap or
something, even if she had only 2+ minutes left. Tiny Headphones
doesn't have liquid metal in him, does he?
Broyles telling Liv at the end that she made the right decision by
saving Walter because "There's only one Walter Bishop" seemed too much
like a setup for the future. While I absolutely loved seeing Walter
whole, hooked up to the rest of his brain--he was such a badass!--I
imagine it'll be pretty jarring if and when The Other Walter appears.
Our Walter's so adorable, so quirky and funny, and damaged--seeing him
watch his own brain tissue dying, together with his missing memories
and the sanity he's been so desperately searching for, was quite
heartbreaking. Same when he was shown pictures of a young Peter and
that small casket. But hey, it's John Noble, and I bet it's going to
be a fun ride watching him play badass Walter too.
suzee
> Now THAT'S more like it, folks! Finally some movement on the
> interdimensional war storyline 8-). And another fantastic performance
> by John Noble!
>
> As luck would have it, we finally get a great episode which I'm
> thrilled to give a solid 5 rating, and my newsreader/NSP promptly
> loses George's poll thread. (I suppose Google's still broken?)
I haven't seen one. I just watched it last night, so I leave any
discussion threads unread until I do. There haven't been any!
Which universe are they in? At the end when Olivia was talking to
Broyles, he left and there was a shot of Olivia with what looked like
two towers in the background. So were they in NYC for that scene, or was
it just a coincidence?
Dano
Isn't Olivia's "superpower" really the ability to traverse the two parallel
universes? Maybe she had one foot in each. You have me wanting to go back
and check that scene again. I missed that.
Dano
Nope. Just checked. Definitely not the towers. I believe they were in
(faux) Boston.
suzee
I wasn't clear where they were, so thanks for checking. It looked like
two identical buildings not far apart and the opening (what happened
before) sequence did show the burning towers. So I wasn't sure if they
were sneaking in a clue, of if it was only a coincidence.
Anlatt the Builder
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I realize this is not a strictly "realistic" show, but Bell's plans
for hiding the information from Walter's brain (but insure it could be
retrieved at a later date) made so little sense that I could only
shake my head. In addition to being a thoroughly evil plan, it was
built on the assumption that three random people placed in mental
institutions would all be alive 15 or 20 years later.
Also, the people had to be fed anti-rejection drugs all that time -
based entirely on old prescriptions written by a doctor with fake
credentials who disappeared 14 years ago. No hospital would continue
to give drugs to patients like that without periodically reevaluating
the reasons. (Anti-rejection drugs, in particular, have strong side
effects.)
There are better ways to hide information so that you can get it back
later.
I laughed when they found gaps in Walter's brain scans that "exactly
matched" the missing pieces just taken from the three patients. Human
tissue doesn't just leave perfectly well-defined gaps for 14 years -
things grow together, scar over, etc.
The episode was suspenseful, and the dialogue was good. The Bishops
are both good actors. (Walter is, in fact, great.) But I wish the
writers had made the effort to put that all in an episode that made
sense.
Dawnie
>Dawnie wrote:
>> As luck would have it, we finally get a great episode which I'm
>> thrilled to give a solid 5 rating, and my newsreader/NSP promptly
>> loses George's poll thread. (I suppose Google's still broken?)
>
>I haven't seen one. I just watched it last night, so I leave any
>discussion threads unread until I do. There haven't been any!
Oh OK, thanks. I was about to check my filters. This is when I miss
the functionality of Google Groups, it would have been so easy to
check there.
>> Broyles telling Liv at the end that she made the right decision by
>> saving Walter because "There's only one Walter Bishop" seemed too much
>> like a setup for the future. While I absolutely loved seeing Walter
>> whole, hooked up to the rest of his brain--he was such a badass!--I
>> imagine it'll be pretty jarring if and when The Other Walter appears.
>> Our Walter's so adorable, so quirky and funny, and damaged--seeing him
>> watch his own brain tissue dying, together with his missing memories
>> and the sanity he's been so desperately searching for, was quite
>> heartbreaking. Same when he was shown pictures of a young Peter and
>> that small casket. But hey, it's John Noble, and I bet it's going to
>> be a fun ride watching him play badass Walter too.
>
>Which universe are they in? At the end when Olivia was talking to
>Broyles, he left and there was a shot of Olivia with what looked like
>two towers in the background. So were they in NYC for that scene, or was
>it just a coincidence?
Broyles and Liv were back in Boston I think, the surrounding looked
the same as the scenes where Liv saw burning buildings in the episode
where she kept flashing to The Other Side and seeing two charred
bodies instead of one.
Does anyone else think that The Other Walter is behind the
interdimensional war? I know I'd be mighty pissed if I had my son
stolen out from right under me.
Dawnie
<tir...@aol.com> wrote:
>s
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>I realize this is not a strictly "realistic" show, but Bell's plans
>for hiding the information from Walter's brain (but insure it could be
>retrieved at a later date) made so little sense that I could only
>shake my head. In addition to being a thoroughly evil plan, it was
>built on the assumption that three random people placed in mental
>institutions would all be alive 15 or 20 years later.
All true, but I loved how it explained Walter's story as well as
showed the effects on him so much that I completely forgave it.
>Also, the people had to be fed anti-rejection drugs all that time -
>based entirely on old prescriptions written by a doctor with fake
>credentials who disappeared 14 years ago.
Not to mention wasn't their follow-up taken care of by whatever mental
institutions they were in, unrelated to Dr Paris (Bell)?
>There are better ways to hide information so that you can get it back
>later.
I have to admit I thought it was a neat idea. If I can believe in a
giant slug, a bat-tiger-wasp (?) chimera and the hedgehog guy on the
plane, I'm OK with this <g>.
>I laughed when they found gaps in Walter's brain scans that "exactly
>matched" the missing pieces just taken from the three patients. Human
>tissue doesn't just leave perfectly well-defined gaps for 14 years -
>things grow together, scar over, etc.
Me too, LOL at how hammy Peter was in that scene.
>The episode was suspenseful, and the dialogue was good. The Bishops
>are both good actors. (Walter is, in fact, great.) But I wish the
>writers had made the effort to put that all in an episode that made
>sense.
What would you have liked to see instead?
BTW, did anyone see The Observer in this episode?
Endymion9
Was interesting to see them let Walter's brain matter die. Knowing now we
will always have earth1Walter's quirkiness and that he will never remember
how to open the door to earth2. He might refigure it out, but won't
remember it.
Bellie said he was the only one that would know where the brain pieces were
hidden, so how did evil head guy figure it out? Did they force Bellie to
tell them?
--
--
Dennis/Endy9
~Some will sink, but we will float. Grab your coat. Let's get out of here.
You're my witness, I'm your Mutineer.~ Warren Zevon
--
Adam H. Kerman
If there's an Other Walter, isn't there an Other Nimoy too?
Adam H. Kerman
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>I realize this is not a strictly "realistic" show, but Bell's plans
>for hiding the information from Walter's brain (but insure it could be
>retrieved at a later date) made so little sense that I could only
>shake my head.
Not too hard; you'll dislodge it.
Dawnie
<endym...@comcast.net> wrote:
>I agree great 5 star episode!
I know, right! 8-) I usually don't rate shows because it's too hard
for me to do accurately without having seen the entire season (or even
series!) but I figure if future episodes are better, I'll just keep
giving it more 5s <g>.
>Was interesting to see them let Walter's brain matter die. Knowing now we
>will always have earth1Walter's quirkiness and that he will never remember
>how to open the door to earth2. He might refigure it out, but won't
>remember it.
Come to think of it, I assume he told Tiny Headphones how he did it,
so wouldn't Walter remember his own explanation of it then? Wouldn't
matter if the relevant brain tissue died, he already retrieved the
memory, and made a new one by talking about it. Hmpf.
>Bellie said he was the only one that would know where the brain pieces were
>hidden, so how did evil head guy figure it out? Did they force Bellie to
>tell them?
I'm thinking there's a lot more to be revealed about our new villain.
He's not just another David Robert Jones. He's the leader of the
shapeshifters, he's got a big bad plan, but for someone who's supposed
to be a ruthless enemy, he appeared strangely respectful of Walter
even while torturing him. He kept his word about not letting him die,
too. Makes me wonder.
Anlatt the Builder
> On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 17:49:37 -0600, "Endymion9"
>
He also didn't kill the three patients, and apologized to the one he
had to leave in an "open" state. He seems like a decent, polite
villain, for someone who is going to try to destroy a whole world.
Dan Lanciani
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| I realize this is not a strictly "realistic" show, but Bell's plans
| for hiding the information from Walter's brain (but insure it could be
| retrieved at a later date) made so little sense that I could only
| shake my head.
To me this episode seemed like a highly predictable rehash of the transmat
one(s), only with a bigger ick factor. We still have no clue why Walter and
Bell like to set up these puzzles/scavenger hunts. If the characters were
a little younger I'd say they spent too much time playing Zork (Dungeon) in
college. As it is, I'm afraid the only real reason is that watching people
run their mazes makes for entertaining television--at least until it gets too
repetitive.
| In addition to being a thoroughly evil plan, it was
| built on the assumption that three random people placed in mental
| institutions would all be alive 15 or 20 years later.
And like the transmat plan it failed (unless frozen head guy is really
working for Bell). Now had Bell really wanted to prevent all this he
could have simply given Olivia the name of any one of the host patients
rather than an obscure clue about frozen head guy--a clue that ultimately
helped the "bad" guys. (I put bad in quotes because frozen head guy
seemed concerned with the well being of the hosts; Bell certainly didn't.)
| Also, the people had to be fed anti-rejection drugs all that time -
| based entirely on old prescriptions written by a doctor with fake
| credentials who disappeared 14 years ago. No hospital would continue
| to give drugs to patients like that without periodically reevaluating
| the reasons. (Anti-rejection drugs, in particular, have strong side
| effects.)
Right, and Olivia should have immediately concluded that there must be
somebody complicit at the hospitals to keep the scam going--somebody she
would very much like to talk to.
| There are better ways to hide information so that you can get it back
| later.
Bell did seem to think he could get it back later, suggesting (again)
that he and Walter had (years ago) technology at or beyond the current
level of the other universe, even though it seems well advanced compared
to the mainline universe (at least with respect to creating mercury-blooded
hybrids). It's really hard to accept Walter as the wellspring of all this
technology. The only way this is going to make any sense is if Walter is
from (or stole technology from) yet another universe, perhaps that of the
observers.
Another question is why Bell _didn't_ get the information back rather
than doing whatever he did do to get to the other universe and subject
himself to ridiculous constraints on mobility and communication.
| I laughed when they found gaps in Walter's brain scans that "exactly
| matched" the missing pieces just taken from the three patients. Human
| tissue doesn't just leave perfectly well-defined gaps for 14 years -
| things grow together, scar over, etc.
I was fully expecting this scene long before it occurred so I didn't
really react. However, I found it incongruous when frozen head guy
said he couldn't just put the pieces back (into those perfect gaps)
for the obvious reasons you mention.
I was disappointed that we didn't see more of the complete Walter.
Throughout the episode I was thinking that he was the glass hand
with a daemon. If he can do all he does with three pieces of his
brain missing imaging how dangerous he'd be with his full brain...
Dan Lanciani
ddl@danlan.*com
Eddie Grove
> I was disappointed that we didn't see more of the complete Walter.
> Throughout the episode I was thinking that he was the glass hand
> with a daemon. If he can do all he does with three pieces of his
> brain missing imaging how dangerous he'd be with his full brain...
The sad thing is that they've now set it up so he can never be fixed.
I was hopeful that in a couple of seasons Walter would get fixed,
and turn into the evil protagonist that is waiting to get out.
Eddie
Endymion9
news:855cd00d-5822-4c04...@15g2000prz.googlegroups.com...
MY RESPONSE:
I keep having the nagging thought he might be Bellie much younger (due to
the Cyro freezing). Maybe he's earth2 Bellie??
Dimensional Traveler
> On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 14:21:14 -0800 (PST), Anlatt the Builder
> <tir...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>> s
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>>
>> I realize this is not a strictly "realistic" show, but Bell's plans
>> for hiding the information from Walter's brain (but insure it could be
>> retrieved at a later date) made so little sense that I could only
>> shake my head. In addition to being a thoroughly evil plan, it was
>> built on the assumption that three random people placed in mental
>> institutions would all be alive 15 or 20 years later.
>
> All true, but I loved how it explained Walter's story as well as
> showed the effects on him so much that I completely forgave it.
>
forgiveness! :D
--
"Dude. They've gone fractal."
Dimensional Traveler
An honorable villain is a _dangerous_ villain.
Dawnie
<dtr...@sonic.net> wrote:
>Dawnie wrote:
>> Anlatt the Builder wrote:
>>
>>> s
>>> p
>>> o
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>>> a
>>> c
>>> e
>>>
>>> I realize this is not a strictly "realistic" show, but Bell's plans
>>> for hiding the information from Walter's brain (but insure it could be
>>> retrieved at a later date) made so little sense that I could only
>>> shake my head. In addition to being a thoroughly evil plan, it was
>>> built on the assumption that three random people placed in mental
>>> institutions would all be alive 15 or 20 years later.
>>
>> All true, but I loved how it explained Walter's story as well as
>> showed the effects on him so much that I completely forgave it.
>>
>But its Mad Science!!(tm) It doesn't need or ask for your wimpy
>forgiveness! :D
I know, isn't that grand? 8-).
You guys from RASFTV are so tough! I'm easy to please, just give me
lots of Walter in the main arc and I'm a happy camper. (I suppose I
really shouldn't point out that I sat through DEFYING GRAVITY from
beginning to end <g>.)
Dawnie
wrote:
>Dan Lanciani writes:
>> I was disappointed that we didn't see more of the complete Walter.
>> Throughout the episode I was thinking that he was the glass hand
>> with a daemon.
As long as he's not a robot, I'm good <g>.
>> If he can do all he does with three pieces of his
>> brain missing imaging how dangerous he'd be with his full brain...
I think that was the point when they showed us the complete Walter,
giving us a glimpse of how terrifying he might have been, but
thankfully wasn't. Liv tried to comfort him when it was all over,
saying he was better for it.
I did like what appeared to be a little clue Tiny Headphones--OK, high
time I looked up the name of the character Sebastian Roche plays since
no one has mentioned it yet--Thomas Jerome Newton mentioned that the
trees outside Walter's Other house was dead, and "the same thing"
killed the grass. Hmm.
>The sad thing is that they've now set it up so he can never be fixed.
>I was hopeful that in a couple of seasons Walter would get fixed,
>and turn into the evil protagonist that is waiting to get out.
They may have closed the door on our Walter, but there's still the
possibility of getting evil Walter from The Other Side, no?
John Reiher
Dawnie <siok...@gmail.com> wrote:
I like how they threw in a zinger for those of us familiar with Leonard
Nimoy's acting career: Dr. Paris. When Nimoy was a cast member of the
original Mission Impossible, his character's name was "Paris".
--
The Kedamono Dragon
Pull Pinky's favorite words to email me.
http://www.ahtg.net
Have Mac, will Compute
Check out the PowerPointers Shop at:
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Arthur Lipscomb
"Endymion9" <endym...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:RrqdnXTVgZ8WKbjW...@giganews.com...
> "Anlatt the Builder" <tir...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:855cd00d-5822-4c04...@15g2000prz.googlegroups.com...
> On Dec 13, 4:58 pm, Dawnie <siokm...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 17:49:37 -0600, "Endymion9"
>>
>> <endymio...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> >I agree great 5 star episode!
>>
>> I know, right! 8-) I usually don't rate shows because it's too hard
>> for me to do accurately without having seen the entire season (or even
>> series!) but I figure if future episodes are better, I'll just keep
>> giving it more 5s <g>.
>>
>> >Was interesting to see them let Walter's brain matter die. Knowing now
>> >we
>> >will always have earth1Walter's quirkiness and that he will never
>> >remember
>> >how to open the door to earth2. He might refigure it out, but won't
>> >remember it.
>>
>> Come to think of it, I assume he told Tiny Headphones how he did it,
>> so wouldn't Walter remember his own explanation of it then? Wouldn't
>> matter if the relevant brain tissue died, he already retrieved the
>> memory, and made a new one by talking about it. Hmpf.
>>
But he was using the old brain parts at the time. He wasn't making new
memories he was accessing old ones.
>> >Bellie said he was the only one that would know where the brain pieces
>> >were
>> >hidden, so how did evil head guy figure it out? Did they force Bellie to
>> >tell them?
>>
>> I'm thinking there's a lot more to be revealed about our new villain.
>> He's not just another David Robert Jones. He's the leader of the
>> shapeshifters, he's got a big bad plan, but for someone who's supposed
>> to be a ruthless enemy, he appeared strangely respectful of Walter
>> even while torturing him. He kept his word about not letting him die,
>> too. Makes me wonder.
>
> He also didn't kill the three patients, and apologized to the one he
> had to leave in an "open" state. He seems like a decent, polite
> villain, for someone who is going to try to destroy a whole world.
>
>
I get the feeling their acting out of necessity and not malice.
>
>
> MY RESPONSE:
>
> I keep having the nagging thought he might be Bellie much younger (due to
> the Cyro freezing). Maybe he's earth2 Bellie??
>
>
Interesting theory. That may explain how this world's Bell was able to
replace his counterpart in the other world.
Dawnie
<dtr...@sonic.net> wrote:
>Anlatt the Builder wrote:
>> Dawnie wrote:
>>> I'm thinking there's a lot more to be revealed about our new villain.
>>> He's not just another David Robert Jones. He's the leader of the
>>> shapeshifters, he's got a big bad plan, but for someone who's supposed
>>> to be a ruthless enemy, he appeared strangely respectful of Walter
>>> even while torturing him. He kept his word about not letting him die,
>>> too. Makes me wonder.
>>
>> He also didn't kill the three patients, and apologized to the one he
>> had to leave in an "open" state. He seems like a decent, polite
>> villain, for someone who is going to try to destroy a whole world.
Right, and he also apologized to Walter for putting him through the
brain-connecting process, and again for injecting him with his
failsafe neurotoxin.
What's with him and all the apologizing? <g>
>An honorable villain is a _dangerous_ villain.
Yup, and let's not forget his chilling "Now I know how weak you are."
Mmm, Sebastion Roche sure makes a yummy villain.
Dawnie
<kedamo...@Narf.mac.com> wrote:
>> >>> s
>> >>> p
>> >>> o
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>> >>> e
>> >>> r
>> >>> s
>> >>> p
>> >>> a
>> >>> c
>> >>> e
>I like how they threw in a zinger for those of us familiar with Leonard
>Nimoy's acting career: Dr. Paris. When Nimoy was a cast member of the
>original Mission Impossible, his character's name was "Paris".
Nice! I just found out--quite by accident, after googling our new
villain's name--that David Robert Jones is David Bowie's real name,
and Thomas Jerome Newton is the name of Bowie's character in THE MAN
WHO FELL TO EARTH.
Merrick Baldelli
>Now THAT'S more like it, folks! Finally some movement on the
>interdimensional war storyline 8-). And another fantastic performance
>by John Noble!
Noble was rather good on this episode yes... But this whole
Inter-Dimensional War Thread that they're pulling seems to me more of
the X-Files Lite and instead of the Alien Conspiracy Theory it's
Inter-Dimensional Beings bent on destroying our way of life.
Don't get me wrong, I've been moderately entertained by it,
given that we don't have the usual element of "Doubting Thomas" that
Scully (Anderson) typically performed. But the more that the folk at
Bad Robot continue to tell the story -- the more I get the impression
that this is just a carbon copy.
[rest snipped]
--
-=-=-/ )=*=-='=-.-'-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
_( (_ , '_ * . Merrick Baldelli
(((\ \> /_1 `
(\\\\ \_/ /
-=-\ /-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
\ _/ Who are these folks and why have they
/ / stopped taking their medication?
- Captain Infinity
Extravagan
> In article <8857c905-2523-4773...@z4g2000prh.googlegroups.com>, tir...@aol.com (Anlatt the Builder) writes:
> | s
> | p
> | o
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> | s
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> |
> | I realize this is not a strictly "realistic" show, but Bell's plans
> | for hiding the information from Walter's brain (but insure it could be
> | retrieved at a later date) made so little sense that I could only
> | shake my head.
>
> To me this episode seemed like a highly predictable rehash of the transmat
> one(s), only with a bigger ick factor.
"Transmat ones"?
Tony Calguire
news:rcjbi51r378ajlimt...@4ax.com:
>
> I did like what appeared to be a little clue Tiny Headphones--OK, high
> time I looked up the name of the character Sebastian Roche plays since
> no one has mentioned it yet--Thomas Jerome Newton mentioned that the
> trees outside Walter's Other house was dead, and "the same thing"
> killed the grass. Hmm.
>
I still think we should all be calling him "01 Boxer". :-)
Dan Lanciani
When they had to get the formula to make the device that lets you pass
through solid matter to they could rob the banks of all the boxes that
Walter had numbered in Fibonacci sequence so they could assemble the
space/time matter transporter. I suppose you could add on the parts
where they had to get the magic location from the dead guy and the power
supply hidden in Nina's bionic arm to run the rift opener.
Why do Bell and Walter like to set up these puzzles/scavenger hunts? They
do a very bad job of actually protecting the resources in question--so bad
that the only reasonable assumption is that they are not intended to do so.
That in turn suggests that they want the rats to run the maze and play a
real-life version of Zork, but other than for our entertainment why would
they want this?
Dan Lanciani
ddl@danlan.*com
Dimensional Traveler
> (I suppose I really shouldn't point out that I sat through DEFYING GRAVITY from
> beginning to end <g>.)
No, you _really_ shouldn't.
Adam H. Kerman
Hah!
Do we believe that Roche is playing a character who can travel from
frozen head to frozen head? Do they implant a bit of brain tissue? Or do
each of the frozen heads already have the brain tissue inside?
I liked "Charlie Jade", once it got going. Michael Filipowich, who played 01,
turned up on V, if anyone cares.
AC
More so than with any other show you *must* buy in to the iffy science,
other wise its a complete waste of time. There is not one thing I've seen in
this show that makes proper sense. And Fringe has more of it than most. Of
course this leads to the horrible notion that they can explain anything with
some iffy science, as there seems to be no "universe rules", if you see what
I mean.
I really do like this show, and the above is not to slag it off in any way.
I just accept what it is and go with it.
AC
Adam H. Kerman
It's comedy! They had a physics professor advising them, once, but they
sent him back to "The Big Bang Theory".
Mark Nobles
> If there's an Other Walter, isn't there an Other Nimoy too?
That may be why Belly stays so hard to find: he's hiding from his
duplicate.
Merrick Baldelli
<dtr...@sonic.net> wrote:
>Dawnie wrote:
>> (I suppose I really shouldn't point out that I sat through DEFYING GRAVITY from
>> beginning to end <g>.)
>
>No, you _really_ shouldn't.
I'll second that... Ignorance is certainly bliss in this
case.
Dawnie
<a...@chinet.com> wrote:
>Dawnie wrote:
>>Does anyone else think that The Other Walter is behind the
>>interdimensional war? I know I'd be mighty pissed if I had my son
>>stolen out from right under me.
>
>If there's an Other Walter, isn't there an Other Nimoy too?
I imagine there's an Other Everybody Else there too. I'm not sure what
you're getting at.
Dawnie
<a...@chinet.com> wrote:
>AC wrote:
>>Anlatt the Builder wrote:
>>> s
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>>> e
<snip all good examples of iffy science>
>>> The episode was suspenseful, and the dialogue was good. The Bishops
>>> are both good actors. (Walter is, in fact, great.) But I wish the
>>> writers had made the effort to put that all in an episode that made
>>> sense.
>
>>More so than with any other show you *must* buy in to the iffy science,
>>other wise its a complete waste of time. There is not one thing I've seen in
>>this show that makes proper sense. And Fringe has more of it than most. Of
>>course this leads to the horrible notion that they can explain anything with
>>some iffy science, as there seems to be no "universe rules", if you see what
>>I mean.
>
>>I really do like this show, and the above is not to slag it off in any way.
>>I just accept what it is and go with it.
Same here. You have to, or else you're not going to enjoy it much. I
sometimes feel bad that I have such different expectations from others
here, because I usually can't empathize. For me, dissecting the
science, iffy or otherwise, is what wears on me.
>It's comedy!
Yes! A big giant cold virus slug, how could it be anything else? <g>
>They had a physics professor advising them, once, but they
>sent him back to "The Big Bang Theory".
Who?
Dawnie
<art...@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:
I wrote:
>>> Come to think of it, I assume he told Tiny Headphones [Newton] how he did it,
>>> so wouldn't Walter remember his own explanation of it then? Wouldn't
>>> matter if the relevant brain tissue died, he already retrieved the
>>> memory, and made a new one by talking about it. Hmpf.
>
>But he was using the old brain parts at the time. He wasn't making new
>memories he was accessing old ones.
Right, but when he accessed them in order to tell Newton how he
created the door, wouldn't he have made a *new* memory of his current
conversation? I assume any new memories would be formed and retained
in his brain (in his head), no?
>>> I'm thinking there's a lot more to be revealed about our new villain.
>>> He's not just another David Robert Jones. He's the leader of the
>>> shapeshifters, he's got a big bad plan, but for someone who's supposed
>>> to be a ruthless enemy, he appeared strangely respectful of Walter
>>> even while torturing him. He kept his word about not letting him die,
>>> too. Makes me wonder.
Anlatt the Builder wrote:
>> He also didn't kill the three patients, and apologized to the one he
>> had to leave in an "open" state. He seems like a decent, polite
>> villain, for someone who is going to try to destroy a whole world.
>
>I get the feeling their acting out of necessity and not malice.
Necessity for them, maybe. But if it requires destroying Our World to
do it, then wouldn't it qualify as malice?
Endymion9 wrote:
>> I keep having the nagging thought he might be Bellie much younger (due to
>> the Cyro freezing). Maybe he's earth2 Bellie??
>
>Interesting theory. That may explain how this world's Bell was able to
>replace his counterpart in the other world.
I don't recall, but has there been any mention of replacement or what
happens when one dimension-slides? As far as we know, Our Liv and
Other Liv were able to co-exist when she visited Bell?
Arthur Lipscomb
"Dawnie" <siok...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:28tpi5tneasg9aa8o...@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 21:46:17 -0800, "Arthur Lipscomb"
> <art...@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:
>
> I wrote:
>>>> Come to think of it, I assume he told Tiny Headphones [Newton] how he
>>>> did it,
>>>> so wouldn't Walter remember his own explanation of it then? Wouldn't
>>>> matter if the relevant brain tissue died, he already retrieved the
>>>> memory, and made a new one by talking about it. Hmpf.
>>
>>But he was using the old brain parts at the time. He wasn't making new
>>memories he was accessing old ones.
>
> Right, but when he accessed them in order to tell Newton how he
> created the door, wouldn't he have made a *new* memory of his current
> conversation? I assume any new memories would be formed and retained
> in his brain (in his head), no?
That's not how it was portrayed on the show. It was more like inserting a
memory card into a computer. While inserted the computer can access the
data and play it back at will, but once removed the data is gone, not
retained. Obviously no new memories were retained so perhaps the new
memories were located on the missing pieces of brain.
>
>>>> I'm thinking there's a lot more to be revealed about our new villain.
>>>> He's not just another David Robert Jones. He's the leader of the
>>>> shapeshifters, he's got a big bad plan, but for someone who's supposed
>>>> to be a ruthless enemy, he appeared strangely respectful of Walter
>>>> even while torturing him. He kept his word about not letting him die,
>>>> too. Makes me wonder.
>
> Anlatt the Builder wrote:
>>> He also didn't kill the three patients, and apologized to the one he
>>> had to leave in an "open" state. He seems like a decent, polite
>>> villain, for someone who is going to try to destroy a whole world.
>>
>>I get the feeling their acting out of necessity and not malice.
>
> Necessity for them, maybe. But if it requires destroying Our World to
> do it, then wouldn't it qualify as malice?
I was using the evil for the sake of doing evil definition of malice. For
example the difference between killing a chicken to eat it because one is
starving and drowning puppies because one finds it funny. The end result
may be the same (and the chicken would surely scream malice if it could) but
the motives are totally different.
Adam H. Kerman
The Nimoy we've seen in the other universe is from our universe. I wondered
why we haven't seen two of them in the other universe.
Adam H. Kerman
>Who?
It's secret. One doesn't put "science advisor on Fringe" prominently on
one's resume.
Mark Nobles
It's a joke. BBT has real science, as with the explanation of a
magnetic monopole. Fringe is the opposite, as admitted in the first
episode when Olivia talked with Pacey about Walter's fringe science, or
as he called it, non-science, or was it nonsense?
David Johnston
<a...@chinet.com> wrote:
I have the impression that if there's a living counterpart in the
other universe, then travelling there merges the two of you. But then
again other Walter and other William may just be dead.
Jerry Brown
Walter's capture of the above giant cold virus bug (in a bucket!) is
my all time favourite Walter moment:
"Things like this used to happen in the lab all the time. Makes me
nostalgic." (it's not just Walter's line; it's his gleeful expression
amid everyone else's revulsion)
Jerry Brown
--
A cat may look at a king
(but probably won't bother)
Extravagan
Which puts Fringe in distinguished company. The only other TV series to
feature such a creature was ... wait for it ...
Star Trek Voyager.
Merrick Baldelli
<a...@chinet.com> wrote:
Probably for the same reason that it continues to be hinted
that Peter's from the other dimension -- one of them is dead. This
isn't too much of a stretch given that this was also hinted at in the
episode "The Road Not Taken".
Adam H. Kerman
>"Adam H. Kerman" <a...@chinet.com> wrote:
>>Dawnie <siok...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>"Adam H. Kerman" <a...@chinet.com> wrote:
>>>>Dawnie wrote:
>>>>>Does anyone else think that The Other Walter is behind the
>>>>>interdimensional war? I know I'd be mighty pissed if I had my son
>>>>>stolen out from right under me.
>>>>If there's an Other Walter, isn't there an Other Nimoy too?
>>>I imagine there's an Other Everybody Else there too. I'm not sure what
>>>you're getting at.
>>The Nimoy we've seen in the other universe is from our universe. I wondered
>>why we haven't seen two of them in the other universe.
> Probably for the same reason that it continues to be hinted
>that Peter's from the other dimension -- one of them is dead.
I'd say it's no longer a hint. It was revealed in this episode.
>This isn't too much of a stretch given that this was also hinted at in
>the episode "The Road Not Taken".
Do you recall the line of dialogue that hints that one of the Nimoys is dead?
Extravagan
> Merrick Baldelli <mbal...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Probably for the same reason that it continues to be hinted
>> that Peter's from the other dimension -- one of them is dead.
>
> I'd say it's no longer a hint. It was revealed in this episode.
It was revealed in the episode with the tombstone for Chrissake.
Dimensional Traveler
> On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 20:22:02 +0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
> <a...@chinet.com> wrote:
>
>> Dawnie <siok...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> "Adam H. Kerman" <a...@chinet.com> wrote:
>>>> Dawnie wrote:
>>>>> Does anyone else think that The Other Walter is behind the
>>>>> interdimensional war? I know I'd be mighty pissed if I had my son
>>>>> stolen out from right under me.
>>>> If there's an Other Walter, isn't there an Other Nimoy too?
>>> I imagine there's an Other Everybody Else there too. I'm not sure what
>>> you're getting at.
>> The Nimoy we've seen in the other universe is from our universe. I wondered
>> why we haven't seen two of them in the other universe.
>
> Probably for the same reason that it continues to be hinted
> that Peter's from the other dimension -- one of them is dead. This
> isn't too much of a stretch given that this was also hinted at in the
> episode "The Road Not Taken".
>
flatly stated that the Peter we see is from the other dimension and this
dimension's Peter died as a child.
Merrick Baldelli
Hasn't actually been said by Walter. If anything, it's been
beaten around the bush... And given that this is a conspiracy theory,
one needs to always keep in mind, "believe nothing of what you hear,
and only half of what you see."
Merrick Baldelli
Not off the top of my head, but I've been working on the
assumption that he is, given that he disappeared from this side of the
rift to be hiding on the other. Although the more that I think about
it, I think that Bell is dead in ours, and the one that's working on
the other side is the living one that doesn't agree with this
dimension being invaded.
Mark Nobles
> On Sun, 20 Dec 2009 13:09:15 +0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
> <a...@chinet.com> wrote:
>
> >>This isn't too much of a stretch given that this was also hinted at in
> >>the episode "The Road Not Taken".
> >
> >Do you recall the line of dialogue that hints that one of the Nimoys is dead?
>
> Not off the top of my head, but I've been working on the
> assumption that he is, given that he disappeared from this side of the
> rift to be hiding on the other. Although the more that I think about
> it, I think that Bell is dead in ours, and the one that's working on
> the other side is the living one that doesn't agree with this
> dimension being invaded.
Or is the Belly from the other dimension working in this dimension
hunting down the technology that he needs to open the rift, and the
Belly from this dimension has gone to the other side to hide out?
This gives a reason why the Walter we know played all the games with
himself by hiding bits and pieces of the information from himself
precisely so that if the direct knowledge of where that information is
were to be lost to him, as it was when the bits of his brain were
extracted and hidden in other people, it would still be protected and
he would still be able to find it. This also gives me the idea that the
person who extracted and hid the bits of Walter's brain was
...
wait for it
...
Walter himself.
Extravagan
> Merrick Baldelli <mbal...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 20 Dec 2009 13:09:15 +0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
>> <a...@chinet.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> This isn't too much of a stretch given that this was also hinted at in
>>>> the episode "The Road Not Taken".
>>> Do you recall the line of dialogue that hints that one of the Nimoys is dead?
>> Not off the top of my head, but I've been working on the
>> assumption that he is, given that he disappeared from this side of the
>> rift to be hiding on the other. Although the more that I think about
>> it, I think that Bell is dead in ours, and the one that's working on
>> the other side is the living one that doesn't agree with this
>> dimension being invaded.
>
> Or is the Belly from the other dimension working in this dimension
> hunting down the technology that he needs to open the rift, and the
> Belly from this dimension has gone to the other side to hide out?
>
> This gives a reason why the Walter we know played all the games with
> himself by hiding bits and pieces of the information from himself
And maybe Walter ran across the wrong Bell when that happened. It would
explain why a) the procedure involved evil, b) the bad guys knew where
to find the pieces, and c) the good guys didn't.
Merrick Baldelli
<extra...@frogsoup.xelon.com> wrote:
>And maybe Walter ran across the wrong Bell when that happened. It would
>explain why a) the procedure involved evil, b) the bad guys knew where
>to find the pieces, and c) the good guys didn't.
Given the advances that were demonstrated, it's not possible
that the 'good guys' would have any clue, given that it was
wild-science experimental at best.
Merrick Baldelli
<cmn-n...@comcast.net> wrote:
>Merrick Baldelli <mbal...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 20 Dec 2009 13:09:15 +0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
>> <a...@chinet.com> wrote:
>>
>> >>This isn't too much of a stretch given that this was also hinted at in
>> >>the episode "The Road Not Taken".
>> >
>> >Do you recall the line of dialogue that hints that one of the Nimoys is dead?
>>
>> Not off the top of my head, but I've been working on the
>> assumption that he is, given that he disappeared from this side of the
>> rift to be hiding on the other. Although the more that I think about
>> it, I think that Bell is dead in ours, and the one that's working on
>> the other side is the living one that doesn't agree with this
>> dimension being invaded.
>
>Or is the Belly from the other dimension working in this dimension
>hunting down the technology that he needs to open the rift, and the
>Belly from this dimension has gone to the other side to hide out?
Belly??? Are you channeling Mike Meyers' Scotsman Character
or something? I thought his name was William B-E-L-L.
Seriously though, that thought crossed my mind... I rather
like the thought that the alternate dimension Bell is fighting against
the spill over. Then again, I like the conflict going on on both
sides of a rift.
>This gives a reason why the Walter we know played all the games with
>himself by hiding bits and pieces of the information from himself
>precisely so that if the direct knowledge of where that information is
>were to be lost to him, as it was when the bits of his brain were
>extracted and hidden in other people, it would still be protected and
>he would still be able to find it. This also gives me the idea that the
>person who extracted and hid the bits of Walter's brain was
Check the episode again. End scene shows that Bell was
involved and by his wording was the decision-maker in this as well.
>...
>wait for it
>...
>Walter himself.
Physically impossible to do. Unless you're meaning that
Walter from the alternate dimension was the one performing the
operation. But this doesn't jive with the end of the current episode
that covers this. William Bell is the one that performed the
operation under the name of Dr. Paris.
suzee
> On Mon, 21 Dec 2009 12:22:37 -0600, Mark Nobles
> <cmn-n...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> Merrick Baldelli <mbal...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 20 Dec 2009 13:09:15 +0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
>>> <a...@chinet.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> This isn't too much of a stretch given that this was also hinted at in
>>>>> the episode "The Road Not Taken".
>>>> Do you recall the line of dialogue that hints that one of the Nimoys is dead?
>>> Not off the top of my head, but I've been working on the
>>> assumption that he is, given that he disappeared from this side of the
>>> rift to be hiding on the other. Although the more that I think about
>>> it, I think that Bell is dead in ours, and the one that's working on
>>> the other side is the living one that doesn't agree with this
>>> dimension being invaded.
>> Or is the Belly from the other dimension working in this dimension
>> hunting down the technology that he needs to open the rift, and the
>> Belly from this dimension has gone to the other side to hide out?
>
> Belly??? Are you channeling Mike Meyers' Scotsman Character
> or something? I thought his name was William B-E-L-L.
It is, Walter calls him Belly, an affectionate nickname.
Endymion9
news:hgt5pt$dta$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
And I figured anyone that watches the show would know that.
--
--
Dennis/Endy9
~Some will sink, but we will float. Grab your coat. Let's get out of here.
You're my witness, I'm your Mutineer.~ Warren Zevon
--
suzee
That's true, unless they don't hear clearly. It would be easy to miss.
Mark Nobles
In which case they probably need to turn on closed captions. Walter has
referred to Belly many times.
Merrick Baldelli
<endym...@comcast.net> wrote:
>"suzee" <suz...@imbris.com> wrote in message
>news:hgt5pt$dta$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>>> Belly??? Are you channeling Mike Meyers' Scotsman Character
>>> or something? I thought his name was William B-E-L-L.
>>
>> It is, Walter calls him Belly, an affectionate nickname.
>
>And I figured anyone that watches the show would know that.
I don't always keep track of the affectionate names people
give between the characters. The fact that I can keep track of the
character names is an event of epic proportions in itself and is
usually sign that I actually like watching the show.