I'm Gone
jms...@aol.com
my postings here have been on the steady decline for some months now.
The reason is that I have been reading, and thus replying, less than
before, because it seems that nearly every thread have a posting by an
individual who has dedicated himself to the task of insulting me on a
constant basis, on a personal and professional basis. This nearly
pathological obsession has manifested itself as, for lack of a better
term, the death of a thousand papercuts. Each post is, on its own, as
irrelevant and unimportant as he is, but in the aggregate becomes a
constant note of insult. He remains in this group not to participate
in the discussion, but to find some way to work an insult or derogatory
comment about me at every possible opportunity. He is, for lack of a
better term, going out of his way to shit on me in a place where he
knows I have to read it...because that is his goal, to insult me where
he knows that I hang out...because he's too much of a coward to do it
to my face.
I'm not talking about critical opinions of a show, or disagreements,
I'm talking about bald-faced insults, affronts, digs and offense on a
personal and professional nature that have no business here.
I have discussed this previously with the moderators, who say they are
powerless to keep him out, that he has made it clear to them that he
does not and will not respect the will of either the moderators or the
members of this newsgroup, who he views with utter contempt, as
evidenced in the many messages in which he has described the members of
this group as "joe worshippers" and terms too vile for me to repeat.
He has stated to the moderators that if he is forced to leave, that he
will simply join again under a different ISP or a different name, that
the group must and will be held hostage to his conviction that the
moderators have no authority over him, that he can ignore the purpose
of this group, which is in part to provide a buffer zone between me and
net-stalkers, and that his right to be here outweighs the right of the
group or anyone in that group to keep him out, myself included.
A writer has only three resources: time, energy and visceral material,
and when those are being spent being pissed off, when every message
thread you'd otherwise like to participate in gets hijacked and
polluted by a dozen new insults, snide asides or affronts, you just
stop reading because life's too short.
Since the moderators cannot remove this individual due to his threats
to remain no matter their actions, or the intentions or guidelines of
this group, it seems that I therefore have no choice but to absent
myself from this group. It is for this reason that I have already
mainly stopped reading and posting, and the members of this group, who
have participated in good faith for so long, deserve an explanation.
With luck, my departure will remove this individual's reason for being
here, and at least the group can return to a discussion of the pros and
cons of the show without his presence, because my absence will have
taken all the fun out of it.
jms
hennessy
<jms...@aol.com> wrote:
>With luck, my departure will remove this individual's reason for being
>here, and at least the group can return to a discussion of the pros and
>cons of the show without his presence, because my absence will have
>taken all the fun out of it.
Bummer, here's hoping the movie hits it big so you can hire a
secretary to killfile that garbage. Thanks for all the fish!
--
"When in doubt, use brute force."
- Ken Thompson
Anthony Nance
>
Sad that it came to this, and sorry to see you go.
Moving forward, do you have a recommendation on where we look
for the periodic "jms updates" (for lack of a better term)
we were privy to here?
Best wishes, and thanks,
Tony
Mox Fulder
[...]
> I have discussed this previously with the moderators, who say they are
> powerless to keep him out, that he has made it clear to them that he
> does not and will not respect the will of either the moderators or the
I'm confused. I thought the whole point of a moderated group was to filter
disruptive messages and users. Sure, people can post from different
accounts, but each one of those different accounts can be banned. Even the
most persistent pest has to give up at some point.
[...]
> With luck, my departure will remove this individual's reason for being
> here, and at least the group can return to a discussion of the pros and
> cons of the show without his presence, because my absence will have
> taken all the fun out of it.
jms will do what jms wants. That's not up for debate. Personally (as a
public comment on a public announcement), I don't think a retreat is
the best solution. Not under these circumstances, anyway.
--
20060718 0810
This .sig is not available at the moment. Leave your message after the beep.
Jay Denebeim
>I'm confused. I thought the whole point of a moderated group was to
>filter disruptive messages and users.
Yup. The problem is we've got a new moderator and when this happened
a) we had a glitch that caused our news readers to die every time we
tried to read this group so we had to catch up.
b) my parrot is very sick.
c) I'm still moving my house.
>Sure, people can post from different accounts, but each one of those
>different accounts can be banned. Even the most persistent pest has
>to give up at some point.
Wanna bet? One of them never stopped until he died. (It was only
after that that I learned he was such a jerk because he was young,
very young, and dying of cancer. Felt horrible about it.)
>jms will do what jms wants. That's not up for debate. Personally (as a
>public comment on a public announcement), I don't think a retreat is
>the best solution. Not under these circumstances, anyway.
Actually, I understand where he's coming from. Being a famous person
he collects lots of loons. So, he's tried flaming them back, which of
course he's very good at, but that just escalates things. Anway, I've
known Joe for about a dozen years now, and I don't blame him for doing
what he thinks is necessary.
For whatever it's worth, Mr. Harper is no longer welcome at Deep
Thought I'm not going to let my computer system be used by someone to
irritate a friend of mine. So, you won't be seeing him around here
anymore.
Jay
--
* Jay Denebeim Moderator rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated *
* newsgroup submission address: b5...@deepthot.org *
* moderator contact address: b5mod-...@deepthot.org *
* personal contact address: dene...@deepthot.org *
Rob Perkins
> Since the moderators cannot remove this individual due to his threats
> to remain no matter their actions, or the intentions or guidelines of
> this group, it seems that I therefore have no choice but to absent
> myself from this group. It is for this reason that I have already
> mainly stopped reading and posting, and the members of this group, who
> have participated in good faith for so long, deserve an explanation.
Respectfully, I ask that one or more of the moderators verify this, so
that I can be sure it's JMS and not some bitter troll.
Having requested that, though, and assuming it's true, all I can really
express is sorrow at the loss of our central participant, and pity
towards the gadfly whose attitudes have made the environment too hostile
for JMS to participate, especially given the reasons why the group was
created in the first place.
Joe, I hope you'll shoot the occasional press release our way. All the best!
Rob
Cheryl Martin
Rob Perkins <rper...@usa.net> wrote:
>jms...@aol.com wrote:
>
>> Since the moderators cannot remove this individual due to his threats
>> to remain no matter their actions, or the intentions or guidelines of
>> this group, it seems that I therefore have no choice but to absent
>> myself from this group. It is for this reason that I have already
>> mainly stopped reading and posting, and the members of this group, who
>> have participated in good faith for so long, deserve an explanation.
>
>Respectfully, I ask that one or more of the moderators verify this, so
>that I can be sure it's JMS and not some bitter troll.
Yes, it is JMS.
>Having requested that, though, and assuming it's true, all I can really
>express is sorrow at the loss of our central participant, and pity
>towards the gadfly whose attitudes have made the environment too hostile
>for JMS to participate, especially given the reasons why the group was
>created in the first place.
When we started the group, we agreed to not use a heavy hand. What
that means is that sometimes some trolls, flames would get through
(especially on the threads that are not hand moderated). And we
agreed to err on the side of free discussion (borderline posts are
normally let through).
However, this person is a master at borderline posts and I can see how
it would all accumulate and become wearing.
We brought on new moderators to help alleviate burnout. I was
essentially the only one actively moderating for some time (Pat was
and is our resource moderator..helping people with posting issues and
explaining about registration and such. She is a blessing). I was
also unemployed for some time and dealing with my depression and the
changes caused by our recent move. So, having new eyes to watch the
newsgroup has been a good thing overall. But, it takes time to learn
all the tricks and ins and outs of being a usenet moderator. I think
Amy has done well with a few oopsies (makes me think fondly of the
early days of this newsgroup when the 9 original moderators were
learning).
Anyway, we, the moderators are human and we make mistakes and we have
lives outside of moderating.
rastb5.m is a community and I am sure the community will survive
though it may change a bit. It's been 10 years (and Tom Smith should
update his filk) and we are still here.
Cheryl
--
*Moderator: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated,sci.space.moderated *
*http://www.grumpywitch.org http://www.cafepress.com/grumpywitch *
*"For it was not into my ear you whispered, but into my heart. *
* It was not my lips you kissed, but my soul." ---Judy Garland *
Mox Fulder
> In article <12bpuic...@corp.supernews.com>,
> Mox Fulder <alv...@accesscom.com> wrote:
> >On 18 Jul 2006 01:22:23 -0700, jms...@aol.com wrote:
> >I'm confused. I thought the whole point of a moderated group was to
> >filter disruptive messages and users.
> Yup. The problem is we've got a new moderator and when this happened
> a) we had a glitch that caused our news readers to die every time we
> tried to read this group so we had to catch up.
> b) my parrot is very sick.
> c) I'm still moving my house.
That sucks. I'm sorry you didn't have more support to get through this.
> >Sure, people can post from different accounts, but each one of those
> >different accounts can be banned. Even the most persistent pest has
> >to give up at some point.
> Wanna bet? One of them never stopped until he died. (It was only
> after that that I learned he was such a jerk because he was young,
> very young, and dying of cancer. Felt horrible about it.)
That sucks, too, from every angle.
> >jms will do what jms wants. That's not up for debate. Personally (as a
> >public comment on a public announcement), I don't think a retreat is
> >the best solution. Not under these circumstances, anyway.
> Actually, I understand where he's coming from. Being a famous person
> he collects lots of loons. So, he's tried flaming them back, which of
> course he's very good at, but that just escalates things. Anway, I've
> known Joe for about a dozen years now, and I don't blame him for doing
> what he thinks is necessary.
[...]
Oh, I don't blame him at all. I understand very clearly the need to get
away from certain individuals, and defuse hot situations. More
importantly, I'm not in his shoes, so I can't even look at this from his
perspective. I just want to believe there's a better way to deal with
this, even if I don't know what it is. What if some wacko showed up at a
convention? Would jms stop doing conventions?
It's obvious we benefit from jms's presence here, and I'm sure he must get
something from the interaction, or he wouldn't participate. I just find it
hard to accept that one person can ruin all that.
--
20060718 0930
Craig M. Bobchin
Winston
> ... it seems that I therefore have no choice but to absent myself from
> this group.
Thanks for all the contributions you made here. It was great while it
lasted, but even good things often end eventually (as I'm sure someone
must have written somewhere before :).
-WBE
Craig M. Bobchin
this gets posted multiple times my apologies:
Joe,
I for one will be saddened if you leave this group. I, as do most of us
here, look forward to the tidbits of information that you post on a
semi-regular basis. I understand your reasons and agree that this
induhvidual is a PITA here. Getting you to leave the group and stop
posting is IMO giving him exactly what he wants. So in essense by your
leaving he wins. But there are alternatives to leaving.
I'm not sure what newsreader you use to read and post in the group, but
most have an option to killfile a particular poster so his posts never
show up in the message threads. Granted this does nothing about those
who respond and feed the troll (which is what they live for), but it is
better than leaving IMO. The news reader I use (super gravity) also has
rules so I can filter messages based on content so if a particular
phrase in the header or body is consistant it too can be killfiled.
I would be happy to help you set this up should you chose to stay or
return.
Or you could post a blog with no comments section to distribute the same
information.
The decision is of course your's, but if you do read this please
reconsider.
Craig
In article <1153210943.1...@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com>,
jms...@aol.com says...
Ranger Elenopa
Well, thanks for your time Joe. May we meet up again sometime in the
future. Echoing another poster, please try and find some way to keep us
posted on up coming projects etc.
With Greatest Respect
Ranger Elenopa
The Nuclear Marine
@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com:
> With luck, my departure will remove this individual's reason for being
> here, and at least the group can return to a discussion of the pros and
> cons of the show without his presence, because my absence will have
> taken all the fun out of it.
>
> jms
>
I would hope though that announcements and heads up of future projects will
still be announced in this newsgroup. Granted, that may be just enough food
to keep the troll alive.
Other posters, did I miss something? Who (assuming it was only one poster)
has been constantly insulting jms? Was it in that long atheist thread I
never read?
Nuke
--
There comes a time in every man's life when he must die - Charles Applin
I'm kinda divided on this whole abortion issue. On one hand, I'm not about
to let no woman control nothing, especially her own body. On the other
hand, I really hate babies.
Chris Patterson
jms...@aol.com wrote:
> Since the moderators cannot remove this individual due to his threats
> to remain no matter their actions, or the intentions or guidelines of
> this group, it seems that I therefore have no choice but to absent
> myself from this group.
I'm very sad that it has come to this, Joe, and wish you, as always, all
the best. Although I am for the most part a lurker here, I've enjoyed
reading your posts for about 6 years now. I hope to meet you in person
at a con someday.
I must admit I'm a bit surprised about this -- maybe because I killfiled
("created a filter" in MT-Newswatcher parlance) Mr. Harper some time ago
and haven't seen his posts. Was there some reason you could not do so?
It would seem a less drastic step than leaving the group completely. I
don't want to seem disrespectful here -- it's just the engineer in me
trying to find a way to fix things.
I also want to say thank you to the moderators who have had to deal with
this crap behind the scenes for so long, suffering (mostly) in silence
and going above and beyond the call of duty in service of a bunch of
strangers, for little reward, in what little free time real life affords
them.
And finally, Joe, I, too, would like to know where we should now turn to
get the latest updates on your projects... Your own blog (with comments
disabled), perhaps?
--
=====================================================================
Chris Patterson chrispatterson.at.comcast.dot.net
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are
always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts."
-- Bertrand Russell
=====================================================================
Chris Patterson
"Craig M. Bobchin" <cbob...@csi.com> wrote:
> I'm not sure what newsreader you use to read and post in the group, but
> most have an option to killfile a particular poster so his posts never
> show up in the message threads.
> Or you could post a blog with no comments section to distribute the same
> information.
There I go again, posting before reading everything first! :)
Bill
> With luck, my departure will remove this individual's reason for being
> here, and at least the group can return to a discussion of the pros and
> cons of the show without his presence, because my absence will have
> taken all the fun out of it.
>
> jms
Your absence also diminishes the group and one of its primary
attractions: the ability to contact you directly. I know that you make
a herculean effort to remain accessible and take it to heart that one
person has it in for you.
I also agree with those who say to simply killfile or ignore the idiot
in some other automated fashion. We all know that you know how to deal
with such people. "'I am not your pimp', and that's how I opened the
conversation" remains one of the best things I have ever heard. I am
also adding my voice to those who say not to give him what he wants by
leaving.
Bill
Bill
> For whatever it's worth, Mr. Harper is no longer welcome at Deep
> Thought I'm not going to let my computer system be used by someone to
> irritate a friend of mine. So, you won't be seeing him around here
> anymore.
Apologies if I sounds rude, but why couldn't Harper have been
banned/killfiled/whatever *before* it got to this point? JMS is one of
a very small number of people I genuinely admire and I enjoyed his
input here. I know that you and the other mods try to keep a very loose
reign over what gets posted, but there are occasions when you simply
have to exercise force.
Bill
Methuselah Jones
Nuclear Marine of rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated make plain:
> Other posters, did I miss something? Who (assuming it was only one
> poster) has been constantly insulting jms? Was it in that long atheist
> thread I never read?
It's Paul Harper. He's been a major troll in the past, but has recently
been mostly behaving himself, except for taking shots at JMS any time
there's an opening. I suspect his recent (relative) good behavior was so he
wouldn't get banned and could continue sniping at Joe.
--
Methuselah
"From the moment I picked your book up until I laid it down I convulsed
with laughter. Someday I intend to read it."
-- Groucho Marx
Jan
Jones says...
>
>Carved in mystic runes upon the very living rock, the last words of The
>Nuclear Marine of rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated make plain:
>
>> Other posters, did I miss something? Who (assuming it was only one
>> poster) has been constantly insulting jms? Was it in that long atheist
>> thread I never read?
>
>It's Paul Harper. He's been a major troll in the past, but has recently
>been mostly behaving himself, except for taking shots at JMS any time
>there's an opening. I suspect his recent (relative) good behavior was so he
>wouldn't get banned and could continue sniping at Joe.
>
To give him his due, I think while he was blocked (or thought he was), he missed
the conversation here. Too bad he couldn't restrain himself.
Jan
--
We are the voice of the universe, the soul of creation,
The fire that will light the way to a better future.
We are One.
IA Declaration of Principles
(J. Michael Straczynski)
Laura Appelbaum
continue your presence here after what, ten years? would be to just stop
reading a thread that has been "contaminated" by the person in question once
he posts in it, and to simply reply to the discussion as it took place
before that point. Heck, that's what I've done here for ages and ages; once
a thread goes in a direction that I'm either disinterested in, or that
offends me, I just don't read *that* thread anymore. Seems like a shame to
throw out the baby with the bathwater after so many years of largely
civilized conversation.
Not that you are reading this response, I suppose. :(
LMA
Laura Appelbaum
news:e9iuus$fto$4...@dent.deepthot.org...
>
> Wanna bet? One of them never stopped until he died. (It was only
> after that that I learned he was such a jerk because he was young,
> very young, and dying of cancer. Felt horrible about it.)
>
asshole. Me, I never spent one minute feeling sorry Cronin was gone, no
matter what it took to get rid of him. Don't think you should either.
>>jms will do what jms wants. That's not up for debate. Personally (as a
>>public comment on a public announcement), I don't think a retreat is
>>the best solution. Not under these circumstances, anyway.
Couldn't y'all just ban the current cretin and then "close" the newsgroup to
new members? I doubt that there are many legitimate applicants at this
point anyway, with the series over for so very long, and even if there are,
:shrug: it would be a small price to pay to keep jms in the forum. Let's
face it, his occasional news and participation are/were the main reason this
group exists at all -- without him, this is nothing but
rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5 only with a smaller circle of posters.
LMA
Jan
jms...@aol.com says...
>
>
>Since the moderators cannot remove this individual due to his threats
>to remain no matter their actions, or the intentions or guidelines of
>this group, it seems that I therefore have no choice but to absent
>myself from this group. It is for this reason that I have already
>mainly stopped reading and posting, and the members of this group, who
>have participated in good faith for so long, deserve an explanation.
>
I wish I could argue but I can't. Might we hope for a 'letter home' sometimes
in order for us to know what news and new projects are happening?
Thanks for all the posts over the years.
Laura Appelbaum
news:chris_s_patterson-F...@individual.net...
> I must admit I'm a bit surprised about this -- maybe because I killfiled
> ("created a filter" in MT-Newswatcher parlance) Mr. Harper some time ago
> and haven't seen his posts. Was there some reason you could not do so?
> It would seem a less drastic step than leaving the group completely. I
> don't want to seem disrespectful here -- it's just the engineer in me
> trying to find a way to fix things.
>
I ditto that, especially since, as a Luddite, I just don't click on and
expand/read posts from people I don't want to listen to. It doesn't even
require a computer program/filter to do that. I guess the temptation to see
what the jerk was saying was just too great for jms to avoid. :(
LMA
Captain Infinity
>"Jay Denebeim" <dene...@deepthot.org> wrote in message
>news:e9iuus$fto$4...@dent.deepthot.org...
>>
>> Wanna bet? One of them never stopped until he died. (It was only
>> after that that I learned he was such a jerk because he was young,
>> very young, and dying of cancer. Felt horrible about it.)
>>
>Neither being young, nor dying of cancer are reasons or excuses for being an
>asshole.
Those weren't his excuses, they were just incidental. Cronan had plenty
of other reasons for being an asshole, and he wore them proudly.
>Me, I never spent one minute feeling sorry Cronin was gone, no
>matter what it took to get rid of him. Don't think you should either.
Yes. Now that Cronan is gone the world is at peace. Blessed be, and
let's hope that *everyone* we hate dies a horrible, painful death.
**
Captain Infinity
Laura Appelbaum
"Captain Infinity" <Infi...@captaininfinity.us> wrote in message
news:euoqb2hog9gfd5mmn...@4ax.com...
/>
> Yes. Now that Cronan is gone the world is at peace. Blessed be, and
> let's hope that *everyone* we hate dies a horrible, painful death.
>
>
giving a damn that they are.
LMA
Methuselah Jones
> "Jay Denebeim" <dene...@deepthot.org> wrote in message
> news:e9iuus$fto$4...@dent.deepthot.org...
>>
>> Wanna bet? One of them never stopped until he died. (It was only
>> after that that I learned he was such a jerk because he was young,
>> very young, and dying of cancer. Felt horrible about it.)
>>
> Neither being young, nor dying of cancer are reasons or excuses for
> being an asshole. Me, I never spent one minute feeling sorry Cronin
> was gone, no matter what it took to get rid of him. Don't think you
> should either.
>
>>>jms will do what jms wants. That's not up for debate. Personally (as
>>>a public comment on a public announcement), I don't think a retreat
>>>is the best solution. Not under these circumstances, anyway.
>
> Couldn't y'all just ban the current cretin and then "close" the
> newsgroup to new members?
Let's not throw the baby out with the bath water. There are new people
popping in still. If PH signs up under another name (actually I think he
already has another one or three) and continues being a jerk, it's simple
enough to ban that identity as well.
--
Methuselah
The fact that no one understands you doesn't mean you're an artist.
Kay Shapero
> With luck, my departure will remove this individual's reason for being
> here, and at least the group can return to a discussion of the pros and
> cons of the show without his presence, because my absence will have
> taken all the fun out of it.
>
Joe, you're one of the main reasons *I'm* here. The trick is not to
tell the troll you're killfiling him so he changes his IP or something;
just DO it. Which I suspect most of us have.
--
Kay Shapero
http://www.kayshapero.net
Jeffrey Kaplan
> I have discussed this previously with the moderators, who say they are
> powerless to keep him out, that he has made it clear to them that he
If the moderators are powerless to keep him out, then "moderating" this
group at all is a farce and it should either be thrown open, or thrown
out. It is the moderators JOB to enforce the rules which are, from a
saved "Welcome" message:
| What are not on-topic are the following:
|
| 1) Story Ideas
| 2) Flames
| 3) Trolls
| 4) Spam
|
| A "Story Idea" is the description of a new character or event in the
| show, the exact scripting of a scene, or any detailed discussion of
| events which have not already appeared in an aired show, been
| described on-line by show production staff, or specifically predicted
| by dialogue and events in shows already aired.
|
| (Obviously, "joke" entries, outlandish dialogue, situations that will
| *not* occur in the series, and parodies, may be acceptable.)
|
| Speculation is allowed, however. The difference between speculation
| and a story idea is that speculation is directly supported by events
| or dialogue in the show or statements made on-line or published in
| magazine articles which are directly attributable to the show's
| production staff.
|
|
| For example:
| If Morden is afraid of green penguins, and Draal is shown to have
| access to them, a speculation would be that Draal will use them
| against Morden in the future. However if Draal only has a purple
| moose, saying that he could use it against Morden would be a story
| idea.
|
| Flames are defined as posts which:
|
| (1) personally insult or attack one or more of the members of the
| newsgroup; or
|
| (2) make defamatory allegations, without corroborating evidence,
| concerning a person/poster in the newsgroup, in a deliberate and
| repetitive manner (resembling a common sense definition of
| libel/slander, but not specifically limited to the legal
| interpretation of those terms).
|
| Trolls are posts that the moderators think are likely to provoke
| members of the group into responding heatedly.
If they are not willing to enforce their own rules, they should hand it
off to someone who is or close up shop.
> He has stated to the moderators that if he is forced to leave, that he
> will simply join again under a different ISP or a different name, that
Then he should be banned from posting under that nym. And the next,
and the next, and the next, however long it takes. Because that is the
entire point of a moderated newsgroup.
> the group must and will be held hostage to his conviction that the
> moderators have no authority over him, that he can ignore the purpose
If the moderators don't ban this nutcase, then he's right, and the
moderators are useless.
> A writer has only three resources: time, energy and visceral material,
> and when those are being spent being pissed off, when every message
> thread you'd otherwise like to participate in gets hijacked and
> polluted by a dozen new insults, snide asides or affronts, you just
> stop reading because life's too short.
Um, don't you have a kill filter in your news reader?
> Since the moderators cannot remove this individual due to his threats
> to remain no matter their actions, or the intentions or guidelines of
> this group, it seems that I therefore have no choice but to absent
> myself from this group. It is for this reason that I have already
> mainly stopped reading and posting, and the members of this group, who
> have participated in good faith for so long, deserve an explanation.
Well, I realize that you probably don't care, but you are the only
reason why I even read this group anymore. The other discussions can
be interesting, but I read this group at all so I can catch your
periodic announcements of new projects, etc.
--
Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
The from userid is killfiled Send personal mail to gordol
"If someone uses the slaughter of innocent people to advance a
so-called political cause, at that point the political cause becomes
immoral and unjust and they should be eliminated from any serious
discussion, any serious debate." Former New York Mayor Rudolph
Giuliani, in CNN interview 9/11/02
Wendy of NJ
>Readers of this newsgroup have noted, and asked about, the reason why
>my postings here have been on the steady decline for some months now.
>
>The reason is that I have been reading, and thus replying, less than
>before, because it seems that nearly every thread have a posting by an
>individual who has dedicated himself to the task of insulting me on a
>constant basis, on a personal and professional basis. This nearly
>pathological obsession has manifested itself as, for lack of a better
>term, the death of a thousand papercuts. Each post is, on its own, as
>irrelevant and unimportant as he is, but in the aggregate becomes a
>constant note of insult. He remains in this group not to participate
>in the discussion, but to find some way to work an insult or derogatory
>comment about me at every possible opportunity. He is, for lack of a
>better term, going out of his way to shit on me in a place where he
>knows I have to read it...because that is his goal, to insult me where
>he knows that I hang out...because he's too much of a coward to do it
>to my face.
>
>I'm not talking about critical opinions of a show, or disagreements,
>I'm talking about bald-faced insults, affronts, digs and offense on a
>personal and professional nature that have no business here.
>
>I have discussed this previously with the moderators, who say they are
>powerless to keep him out, that he has made it clear to them that he
>does not and will not respect the will of either the moderators or the
>members of this newsgroup, who he views with utter contempt, as
>evidenced in the many messages in which he has described the members of
>this group as "joe worshippers" and terms too vile for me to repeat.
>He has stated to the moderators that if he is forced to leave, that he
>will simply join again under a different ISP or a different name, that
>the group must and will be held hostage to his conviction that the
>moderators have no authority over him, that he can ignore the purpose
>of this group, which is in part to provide a buffer zone between me and
>net-stalkers, and that his right to be here outweighs the right of the
>group or anyone in that group to keep him out, myself included.
>
>A writer has only three resources: time, energy and visceral material,
>and when those are being spent being pissed off, when every message
>thread you'd otherwise like to participate in gets hijacked and
>polluted by a dozen new insults, snide asides or affronts, you just
>stop reading because life's too short.
>
>Since the moderators cannot remove this individual due to his threats
>to remain no matter their actions, or the intentions or guidelines of
>this group, it seems that I therefore have no choice but to absent
>myself from this group. It is for this reason that I have already
>mainly stopped reading and posting, and the members of this group, who
>have participated in good faith for so long, deserve an explanation.
>
>With luck, my departure will remove this individual's reason for being
>here, and at least the group can return to a discussion of the pros and
>cons of the show without his presence, because my absence will have
>taken all the fun out of it.
>
>jms
>
>
This is extraordinarily unfortunate. Thank you for letting us know.
Best regards,
Wendy
Laura Appelbaum
"Methuselah Jones" <methu...@altgeek.org> wrote in message
news:Xns9804C66C7CDD0me...@216.196.97.131...
> Carved in mystic runes upon the very living rock, the last words of
> Laura Appelbaum of rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated make plain:
>
>> newsgroup to new members?
>
> Let's not throw the baby out with the bath water. There are new people
> popping in still. If PH signs up under another name (actually I think he
> already has another one or three) and continues being a jerk, it's simple
> enough to ban that identity as well.
>
coming back and is concerned about the threat of him signing up as someone
else -- he specifically mentions that in his goodbye post. The only way to
make certain he's gone is to ban him and not let *anyone* else come in.
Extreme measures, yes, but otherwise we've lost jms. This is exactly the
reason this group was formed in the first place -- to maintain a forum where
he felt comfortable participating. Otherwise, as I said, there's little
point for rastb5.mod anymore.
LMA
Laura Appelbaum
news:vltqb2t1csj7ga6lj...@gordol.org...
> off to someone who is or close up shop.
>
here for an alleged inability to do their "jobs" have spent ten years doing
this on their own dime, on their own time, clearly for little appreciation.
We've got a problem here, no question, but dissing a group of volunteers who
have done something that has worked, by and large, really well up until this
point, is hardly the solution.
LMA
Carl Dershem
Have fun!
cd
--
The difference between immorality and immortality is "T". I like Earl
Grey.
Iva
<jms...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1153210943.1...@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
Well, that sucks. The moderators have a thankless job and I'm sorry that
this "person" has forced you into this situation. Yes, one person can
destroy a newsgroup - I've seen it occur more than once.
Best of luck with the Changeling and do stop by and let us know what's going
on in JMS' world when you can.
And THANK YOU for Babylon 5.
-----
Iva
Dennis (Icarus)
> and when those are being spent being pissed off, when every message
> thread you'd otherwise like to participate in gets hijacked and
> polluted by a dozen new insults, snide asides or affronts, you just
> stop reading because life's too short.
I can understand the sentiment. You do have better things upon which to
focus your time & energy.
>
> Since the moderators cannot remove this individual due to his threats
> to remain no matter their actions, or the intentions or guidelines of
> this group, it seems that I therefore have no choice but to absent
> myself from this group. It is for this reason that I have already
> mainly stopped reading and posting, and the members of this group, who
> have participated in good faith for so long, deserve an explanation.
I am sorry to hear that. I've always found it cool that you'd make the time
to stay in contact with your fans, even replying to e-mail.
You'll be missed.
Dennis
.
Tim Skirvin
> The reason is that I have been reading, and thus replying, less than
> before, because it seems that nearly every thread have a posting by an
> individual who has dedicated himself to the task of insulting me on a
> constant basis, on a personal and professional basis.
Did you try filtering him?
> I have discussed this previously with the moderators, who say they are
> powerless to keep him out,
I find this hard to believe. It may be *difficult* to keep him
out - as a moderator, I'm quite aware of the difficulties - but Jay's a
sharp guy, and should be able to handle it. I could help out, if you're
interested.
But if you want to go, that's your call. I just hope it's not
really because a moderated group isn't protecting enough.
- Tim Skirvin (tski...@killfile.org)
--
http://www.killfile.org/~tskirvin/ Skirv's Homepage <FISH>< <*>
http://tskirvin.livejournal.com/ Skirv's LiveJournal
Greg Bryant
I've killfiled other people at other newsgroups, but yet there's a feeling
of why should I HAVE to do that?
We should be able to have a dialogue in this country without it becoming
nasty. Seems like we've lost that ability, and it seems anymore that being
nasty to each other is the norm.
But I also don't have any desire to stay around if someone is unpleasant to
be around.
I don't know what the solution is, but I'm feeling that it's not some sort
of technology fix. What should be the solution is that we learn to talk
civilly to each other.
Vorlonagent
> With luck, my departure will remove this individual's reason for being
> here, and at least the group can return to a discussion of the pros and
> cons of the show without his presence, because my absence will have
> taken all the fun out of it.
Sorry to see you go, Joe. Thanks for hanging out, even if it was simply
lurking near the end there.
--
John Trauger,
Vorlonagent
"Methane martini.
Shaken, not stirred."
"Spirituality without science has no mind.
Science without spirituality has no heart."
-Methuselah Jones
Vorlonagent
"Laura Appelbaum" <l-app...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:cjdvg.8450$k31.6018@trnddc06...
I also filter posts based on how much spare time I have, who the poster is
and such. This takes me by surprise because I apprently have been looking
at the wrong (or right) threads and wasn't aware that the abuse was
occurring.
Wesley Struebing
>Readers of this newsgroup have noted, and asked about, the reason why
>my postings here have been on the steady decline for some months now.
>
<snip> it seems that I therefore have no choice but to absent
>myself from this group. It is for this reason that I have already
>mainly stopped reading and posting, and the members of this group, who
>have participated in good faith for so long, deserve an explanation.
>
>With luck, my departure will remove this individual's reason for being
>here, and at least the group can return to a discussion of the pros and
>cons of the show without his presence, because my absence will have
>taken all the fun out of it.
>
Disappointing, but understandable, Joe. Do what you gotta do, and the
best of everything wherever you hang your hat.
--
Wes Struebing
I pledge allegiance to the Constitution of the United States of America,
and to the republic which it established, one nation from many peoples,
promising liberty and justice for all.
Mac Breck
[....]
> Actually, I understand where he's coming from. Being a famous person
> he collects lots of loons. So, he's tried flaming them back, which of
> course he's very good at, but that just escalates things. Anway, I've
> known Joe for about a dozen years now, and I don't blame him for doing
> what he thinks is necessary.
>
> For whatever it's worth, Mr. Harper is no longer welcome at Deep
> Thought I'm not going to let my computer system be used by someone to
> irritate a friend of mine. So, you won't be seeing him around here
> anymore.
>
Wow, this one blindsided me! Haven't been reading the group much the
last few months, and had Harper killfiled up until July 1, 2006. When
did the majority of Harper's egregious posts come in?
--
Mac Breck (KoshN)
-------------------------------
"Babylon 5: Crusade" (1999)
Galen: "There is always hope, only because it's the one thing that no
one has figured out how to kill yet."
(Galen's obviously never met Warner Brothers, TNT-Atlanta or Sci-Fi.)
"Brimstone" (1998)
[Stone lights a candle for the dead in a Catholic church]
Gina: Who's that for?
Ezekiel Stone: Me.
Mac Breck
[....]
> The only way to
> make certain he's gone is to ban him and not let *anyone* else come
in.
Sounds like a reasonable idea, not perfect, but reasonable.
> Extreme measures, yes, but otherwise we've lost jms.
Sounds like we *already have* lost JMS.
> This is exactly the
> reason this group was formed in the first place -- to maintain a forum
where
> he felt comfortable participating. Otherwise, as I said, there's
little
> point for rastb5.mod anymore.
Agreed.
Wesley Struebing
And the reason for doing it the way the moderators are/were doing has
been made abundantly clear many times over.
As far as *I* can see they ARE enforcing the rules.
Ian Galbraith
> Carved in mystic runes upon the very living rock, the last words of The
> Nuclear Marine of rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated make plain:
>> Other posters, did I miss something? Who (assuming it was only one
>> poster) has been constantly insulting jms? Was it in that long atheist
>> thread I never read?
> It's Paul Harper. He's been a major troll in the past, but has recently
> been mostly behaving himself, except for taking shots at JMS any time
> there's an opening. I suspect his recent (relative) good behavior was so he
> wouldn't get banned and could continue sniping at Joe.
Since when has Paul Harper used "terms too vile for me to repeat"?
--
You can't stop the signal
Thunder 06
farewell and best of luck in the future.
I also hope you reconsider this drastic measure--we really enjoy having
you here.
With the loss of JMS, I suspect a lot of lurkers will be leaving too...
he was a major draw for being here. I wonder if this will eventually see
the death of the group...? Hopefully not, but you never know...
t.k.
Mac Breck
news:Xns9804663998...@70.169.32.36...
> jms...@aol.com wrote in news:1153210943.173201.327510
> @p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com:
>
>
> > With luck, my departure will remove this individual's reason for
being
> > here, and at least the group can return to a discussion of the pros
and
> > cons of the show without his presence, because my absence will have
> > taken all the fun out of it.
> >
> >
>
> I would hope though that announcements and heads up of future projects
will
> still be announced in this newsgroup. Granted, that may be just enough
food
> to keep the troll alive.
>
> Other posters, did I miss something? Who (assuming it was only one
poster)
> has been constantly insulting jms? Was it in that long atheist thread
I
> never read?
Heh, I got so tired of that thread monopolizing the group that I
killfiled the thread itself. I come here looking for On Topic (B5
universe) stuff, and it got so that 99% of the posts were Off Topic and
most were in that damned thread. That's why for the last couple of
months I've only been lightly skimming the subject lines, only reading
one or two posts per visit, and marking the rest as read, or doing an
OE6 "Catch Up" to mark all posts in the group as read.
John W. Kennedy
Winston wrote:
> jms...@aol.com writes:
> > ... it seems that I therefore have no choice but to absent myself from
> > this group.
>
> Thanks for all the contributions you made here. It was great while it
> lasted, but even good things often end eventually (as I'm sure someone
> must have written somewhere before :).
For some of us, it's lasted about 20 years, going back to the days of
"The Real Ghostbusters", on GEnie and CompuServe. Joe's humor and
humanity, his way with words, and his willingness to explain the secret
life of Hollywood have been a gift it will be hard to do without. But,
as a sometime actor and opera singer, and, on rare occasions, a
composer and writer, I can understand why he had to go. There's only so
much you can take of a poisonous atmosphere before it begins to erode
your soul.
There are times (and this is one of them) when I think it was a mistake
to have abolished dueling....
In the meantime, Harper is triumphing on other newsgroups, bathing in
the glory of his own self-admiration. I'd try to shoot him down, but
he's too dull to be insulted by anything less than, say, the "Deadwood"
word, which would leave /me/ feeling, artistically, quite unfulfilled,
with a sense of insultus interruptus, as it were.
Laura Appelbaum
"Mac Breck" <macthe...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:44bda0fb$0$3661$ecde...@news.coretel.net...
> "Laura Appelbaum" <l-app...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> news:GXfvg.11927$rT6.10313@trnddc03...
> [....]
>> The only way to
>> make certain he's gone is to ban him and not let *anyone* else come
> in.
>
> Sounds like a reasonable idea, not perfect, but reasonable.
>
>
>> Extreme measures, yes, but otherwise we've lost jms.
>
> Sounds like we *already have* lost JMS.
Seems we have. But perhaps if Jay were to write to him privately and
explain to him that this is how it's going to be from now on; only the
following, existing posters in the group can stay, the problem is banned,
can't come back in as membership is now closed, maybe, just *maybe* we can
convince him to return.
LMA
jms...@aol.com
The problem with killfiles is, of course, that when the system quotes
messages, they get repeated.
I've now had several email conversations with the moderators, who have
given me their assurances that this will be fixed henceforth, and asked
that I give the process another shot. In the spirit of cooperation,
I'm willing to give them the opportunity to demonstrate that. So we'll
take this one step at a time, and I will give them, and the process,
the benefit of the doubt.
My apologies for the fray, but sometimes a raised public voice is the
only way to get done what private inertia obstructs. That being done,
let's see if we can make this work.
So: onward.
jms
Vorlonagent
<jms...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1153285953.9...@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> The problem with killfiles is, of course, that when the system quotes
> messages, they get repeated.
....But if nobody answers this person, what happens?
Suppose the entire newsgroup decided to quit answering the offender's posts?
I'd make that sacrifice. I'd hate to declare somebody "unmuutal" but if
it's him or you. I choose you.
> I've now had several email conversations with the moderators, who have
> given me their assurances that this will be fixed henceforth, and asked
> that I give the process another shot. In the spirit of cooperation,
> I'm willing to give them the opportunity to demonstrate that. So we'll
> take this one step at a time, and I will give them, and the process,
> the benefit of the doubt.
>
> My apologies for the fray, but sometimes a raised public voice is the
> only way to get done what private inertia obstructs. That being done,
> let's see if we can make this work.
Good luck. Especially to Jay, Cheryl and the rest of the moderating staff.
Mac Breck
> > "Chris Patterson" <chris_s_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:chris_s_patterson-F...@individual.net...
> >
> > > I must admit I'm a bit surprised about this -- maybe because I
killfiled
> > > ("created a filter" in MT-Newswatcher parlance) Mr. Harper some
time ago
> > > and haven't seen his posts. Was there some reason you could not do
so?
> > > It would seem a less drastic step than leaving the group
completely. I
> > > don't want to seem disrespectful here -- it's just the engineer in
me
> > > trying to find a way to fix things.
> > >
> > I ditto that, especially since, as a Luddite, I just don't click on
and
> > expand/read posts from people I don't want to listen to. It doesn't
even
> > require a computer program/filter to do that. I guess the
temptation to see
> > what the jerk was saying was just too great for jms to avoid. :(
> >
> > LMA
>
> The problem with killfiles is, of course, that when the system quotes
> messages, they get repeated.
Well, killfiles (at least in OE6) can also key off of words in the
subject line and/or message text. ;-)
> I've now had several email conversations with the moderators, who have
> given me their assurances that this will be fixed henceforth, and
asked
> that I give the process another shot. In the spirit of cooperation,
> I'm willing to give them the opportunity to demonstrate that. So
we'll
> take this one step at a time, and I will give them, and the process,
> the benefit of the doubt.
>
> My apologies for the fray, but sometimes a raised public voice is the
> only way to get done what private inertia obstructs. That being done,
> let's see if we can make this work.
>
> So: onward.
>
> jms
Good to hear. Without you, we'd probably be witnessing The Passing of
Rastb5m.
Mac Breck
Jay, what do you say?
Mac Breck
news:5ZOdnZbQQZX_SiDZ...@comcast.com...
>
> <jms...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:1153285953.9...@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
> > The problem with killfiles is, of course, that when the system
quotes
> > messages, they get repeated.
>
> ....But if nobody answers this person, what happens?
> Suppose the entire newsgroup decided to quit answering the offender's
posts?
> I'd make that sacrifice. I'd hate to declare somebody "unmuutal" but
if
> it's him or you. I choose you.
And if the offender keeps changing names? I still say LMA's way
(closing off registrations, i.e. no new people) is the only way to be
sure.
Christophe Bachmann
Greg Bryant a écrit :
Civility is not the point in this debate, technology is.
In older times, when someone hated/loathed/despised someone else, they
had a limited number of venues to express it, and the object could
ignore it with limited efforts, or else it would be harassment,
punishable by law.
Nowadays, with Internet, it is easy from any part of the world to find a
newsgroup, forum or other form of collective expression place one's
target frequents and snipe them without fear of retribution.
Human nature has IMHO *not* degenerated, but the means of publishing
unedited text worldwide has made it far easier for the obnoxious types
to be seen and heard, and thus they seem to have multiplied.
Remember the ferocious editorial wars of XIXth century newspapers, when
it was easy and relatively cheap to set up one. Remember he nasty
broadsides of the XVIIth century when the printing press had made
diffusion of ideas relatively easy, if not cheap. Every time a new
medium of expression arises, new forms of 'flame wars' and harassment
follow suit.
I am very sad that J.M.S. leaves board, because it is what makes IMHO
the unicity of this Newsgroup, but it is understandable. I just hope
that it does not herald the departure of regular posters, leaving the
field to the trolls.
--
Greetings, Salutations,
Guiraud Belissen, Château du Ciel, Drachenwald,
Chris CII, Rennes, France
The Nuclear Marine
@news.coretel.net:
> <jms...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:1153285953.9...@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>
>> So: onward.
>>
>> jms
>
> Good to hear. Without you, we'd probably be witnessing The Passing of
> Rastb5m.
>
Nah, it would just limp along till the next B5 project resusitated
interest.
And there will be a next B5 project, the cat outside on my porch promised
me. I typed that out loud, didn't I?
Nuke
--
There comes a time in every man's life when he must die - Charles Applin
I'm kinda divided on this whole abortion issue. On one hand, I'm not about
to let no woman control nothing, especially her own body. On the other
hand, I really hate babies.
jms...@aol.com
The Nuclear Marine wrote:
> "Mac Breck" <macthe...@yahoo.com> wrote in news:44bddb9c$0$3657$ecde5a14
> @news.coretel.net:
>
> > <jms...@aol.com> wrote in message
> > news:1153285953.9...@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> >>
> >>
> >> So: onward.
> >>
> >> jms
> >
> > Good to hear. Without you, we'd probably be witnessing The Passing of
> > Rastb5m.
> >
>
> Nah, it would just limp along till the next B5 project resusitated
> interest.
>
> And there will be a next B5 project, the cat outside on my porch promised
> me. I typed that out loud, didn't I?
>
> Nuke
Obviously your cat has seen an advance copy of my talk this weekend at
SDCC....
jms
The Nuclear Marine
news:Xns9804A1C985533me...@216.196.97.131:
> Carved in mystic runes upon the very living rock, the last words of
> The Nuclear Marine of rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated make plain:
>
>> Other posters, did I miss something? Who (assuming it was only one
>> poster) has been constantly insulting jms? Was it in that long
>> atheist thread I never read?
>
> It's Paul Harper. He's been a major troll in the past, but has
> recently been mostly behaving himself, except for taking shots at JMS
> any time there's an opening. I suspect his recent (relative) good
> behavior was so he wouldn't get banned and could continue sniping at
> Joe.
>
Oh, that. That whole bit about libeling (is it libel in print?) jms with
jms threatening legal actions in the UK the only thing I recall. Granted,
I don't read every post. Not a very good lurker in that respect. In
hindsight, the instant I read jms hiring (taking?) legal counsel should
have given us warning bells his departure may occur.
Sigh, to think they were engaged once. Shame how a relationship can go
downhill like that. Still, I thought that was why the gods invented the
killfile function. Was it as bad as Plain and Simple Cronan? Before you
ask, I'm not about to review old ass newsgroup posts to see how these
events came about and evolved.
Nuke (who trolls right wingnut blogs by posting facts and statistics)
Jan
jms...@aol.com says...
You mean I don't need to fly all the way out to San Diego, all I needed to do is
ask my cats? NOW you tell me!
Leaving for the airport...
Jan
--
We are the voice of the universe, the soul of creation,
The fire that will light the way to a better future.
We are One.
IA Declaration of Principles
(J. Michael Straczynski)
Hank Arnold
understand why you are doing it (hope you get to see the responses to
this thread). You amazed me from the beginning with how open and
communicative you were with the fans. Despite the ongoing saga of
keeping B5 on the air, you always took the time to keep us up to date
and answer every question about the story, the arcs and such. For that
alone, I say *THANKS*!!!
Frankly, the whole ng has gone downhill in the past couple of years with
numerous OT threads and threads that just won't die and morph or get
hijacked into completely irrelevant subjects.
I would say that of every 100 postings, on average I might read 2 or 3
(other than the ones from JMSATB5@AOL, of course).....
Pretty much the only reason I follow this ng is to read your postings.
I'll probably keep following for a while, but I'm not optimistic that it
will be for long.
Hopefully, you can still post news items to keep us up to date.
Maybe you could consider starting a BLOG??
Best wishes and thank you for B5, Jeremiah, and just for being there....
"We live for the One... We die for the One"..........
You *ARE* "The One"........
Regards,
Hank Arnold
jms...@aol.com wrote:
> Readers of this newsgroup have noted, and asked about, the reason why
> my postings here have been on the steady decline for some months now.
>
> The reason is that I have been reading, and thus replying, less than
> before, because it seems that nearly every thread have a posting by an
> individual who has dedicated himself to the task of insulting me on a
> constant basis, on a personal and professional basis. This nearly
> pathological obsession has manifested itself as, for lack of a better
> term, the death of a thousand papercuts. Each post is, on its own, as
> irrelevant and unimportant as he is, but in the aggregate becomes a
> constant note of insult. He remains in this group not to participate
> in the discussion, but to find some way to work an insult or derogatory
> comment about me at every possible opportunity. He is, for lack of a
> better term, going out of his way to shit on me in a place where he
> knows I have to read it...because that is his goal, to insult me where
> he knows that I hang out...because he's too much of a coward to do it
> to my face.
>
> I'm not talking about critical opinions of a show, or disagreements,
> I'm talking about bald-faced insults, affronts, digs and offense on a
> personal and professional nature that have no business here.
>
> I have discussed this previously with the moderators, who say they are
> powerless to keep him out, that he has made it clear to them that he
> does not and will not respect the will of either the moderators or the
> members of this newsgroup, who he views with utter contempt, as
> evidenced in the many messages in which he has described the members of
> this group as "joe worshippers" and terms too vile for me to repeat.
> He has stated to the moderators that if he is forced to leave, that he
> will simply join again under a different ISP or a different name, that
> the group must and will be held hostage to his conviction that the
> moderators have no authority over him, that he can ignore the purpose
> of this group, which is in part to provide a buffer zone between me and
> net-stalkers, and that his right to be here outweighs the right of the
> group or anyone in that group to keep him out, myself included.
>
> A writer has only three resources: time, energy and visceral material,
> and when those are being spent being pissed off, when every message
> thread you'd otherwise like to participate in gets hijacked and
> polluted by a dozen new insults, snide asides or affronts, you just
> stop reading because life's too short.
>
> Since the moderators cannot remove this individual due to his threats
> to remain no matter their actions, or the intentions or guidelines of
> this group, it seems that I therefore have no choice but to absent
> myself from this group. It is for this reason that I have already
> mainly stopped reading and posting, and the members of this group, who
> have participated in good faith for so long, deserve an explanation.
>
Methuselah Jones
Galbraith of rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated make plain:
You'd have to go back a ways. Apart from the potshots at Joe, he's been
behaving himself lately, but that has not always been the case.
--
Methuselah
"I am Homer of Borg! Prepare to be... Ooooooo! Donuts!"
-- The Simpsons
Methuselah Jones
> The Nuclear Marine wrote:
>> "Mac Breck" <macthe...@yahoo.com> wrote in
>> news:44bddb9c$0$3657$ecde5a14 @news.coretel.net:
>>
>> > <jms...@aol.com> wrote in message
>> > news:1153285953.9...@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>> >>
>> >> So: onward.
>> >
>> > Good to hear. Without you, we'd probably be witnessing The Passing
>> > of Rastb5m.
>>
>> Nah, it would just limp along till the next B5 project resusitated
>> interest.
>>
>> And there will be a next B5 project, the cat outside on my porch
>> promised me. I typed that out loud, didn't I?
>
> Obviously your cat has seen an advance copy of my talk this weekend at
> SDCC....
Most likely he attended Buddy's presentation at CatCon '06.
--
Methuselah
When it comes to thought, some people stop at nothing.
Andrew Swallow
I predict that there will soon be a mass out break amongst
artists and crew.
Andrew Swallow
Mark Alexander Bertenshaw
news for a long time now, and whilst in recent times that hasn't really been
the news coming from here, I've enjoyed reading the many other posts from
nearly everyone, even those I personally disagree with. I hope that the
group doesn't become disbanded; or if it does, maybe we could have a group
could rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.intelligent or something like that.
--
Mark Bertenshaw
Kingston upon Thames
UK
shawn
<macthe...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>"Vorlonagent" <nojt...@otfresno.com> wrote in message
>news:5ZOdnZbQQZX_SiDZ...@comcast.com...
>>
>> <jms...@aol.com> wrote in message
>> news:1153285953.9...@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> > The problem with killfiles is, of course, that when the system
>quotes
>> > messages, they get repeated.
>>
>> ....But if nobody answers this person, what happens?
>> Suppose the entire newsgroup decided to quit answering the offender's
>posts?
>> I'd make that sacrifice. I'd hate to declare somebody "unmuutal" but
>if
>> it's him or you. I choose you.
>
>And if the offender keeps changing names? I still say LMA's way
>(closing off registrations, i.e. no new people) is the only way to be
>sure.
It's not that much of a problem. I've seen that in other groups where
a poster keeps changing his/her name on a regular (sometimes daily)
basis. What I tend to do is then look at the content. If it seems to
be designed to offend or to be just negative I'll ignore the message.
If it's on topic and seems reasonable I may choose to respond. That
seems to be the tact that most everyone uses and it works to keep the
fighting to a minimum.
Mac Breck
news:e9kru...@drn.newsguy.com...
Now if only I could get my dog (a GSD Vorlon) to put up with the chaos
long enough to talk to a cat. Naah, never gonna happen. I await your
report, Jan. Got fresh batteries? If AA cells are needed, I recommend
a couple sets of Duracell 2500mAh NiMH cells. ;-)
Pupeno
channel showed in on Argentina with a low priority so it was shown every
day (hard not to miss an episode) and they cut it whenever they wanted.
Get the DVDs! you may say... I couldn't find them anywhere. I bet there
aren't more than 20 copies in Argentina. Impossible to rent or buy. Buying
from a foreign country was impossible with the Argentinian currency so
devaluated.
Searching on the Internet I find out something awesome, JMS participated in
a newsgroup about B5. I called my ISP and asked for their usenet server's
address.
- "What ?" did the help-desk guy said
- "The usenet address, its hostname or IP"
- "I am sorry, I don't understand"
- "That one to access newsgroups"
- "Oh! you want to see news, go to http://"
and before he told me their own web site:
- "No, not news, newsgroups, it is a service, also called usenet, it is like
mailing lists but different"
- "We have forums"
- "Ok, nevermind"
After many mails they replied me that they didn't have a usenet server and
they weren't going to ever install one. Argentinian's ISP, they suck.
I tried public servers untill I gave up.
Now, two weeks after moving to Berlin, Germany I see in the info about my
new ISP that they have a newsgroup server... hurra!
How ironic that the third message sent by JMS is about leaving the
newsgroup. I feel very sad.
Anyway, B5 is awesome and I am thankful for it, I can't stop telling
everybody about it, I cried in the last episode and felt sad for various
days. I want to get a-hold of DVDs with spanish subtitles so my wife can
enjoy it as well.
Best wishes to JMS!
--
Pupeno: pup...@pupeno.com
http://pupeno.com
Bill
> Since when has Paul Harper used "terms too vile for me to repeat"?
I also suspect that Harper may have said things in private e-mail
ambushes that he wouldn't have had the balls to say in public. To quote
Cmdr. Sinclair, "The first refuge of a coward is the sneak attack."
Bill
Doug Freyburger
>
> And if the offender keeps changing names?
Doing that will cause your ISP to pull your account. The problem
is there are an unlimited number of ISPs around and some of
them are rogues that don't follow that rule. Chasing a poster
off of his ISP account works for the casual troll, but all it does
to the dedicated ones is drive them towards those rogue ISPs.
> I still say LMA's way
> (closing off registrations, i.e. no new people) is the only way to be
> sure.
Or turning off the auto-approve function and hand moderating
everything. I'm a moderator of a group that is currently in that
state. We'd love to put our regulars on auto-approval but there's
too much history of trolls to allow us to do it. I don't know if we'll
ever be able to or if the noise will eventually settle down.
RASTB5.mod is a model for excellence in the UseNet moderation
world.
Doug Freyburger <*> moderator soc.religion.asatru
Josh Hill
<macthe...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>"Vorlonagent" <nojt...@otfresno.com> wrote in message
>news:5ZOdnZbQQZX_SiDZ...@comcast.com...
>>
>> <jms...@aol.com> wrote in message
>> news:1153285953.9...@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> > The problem with killfiles is, of course, that when the system
>quotes
>> > messages, they get repeated.
>>
>> ....But if nobody answers this person, what happens?
>> Suppose the entire newsgroup decided to quit answering the offender's
>posts?
>> I'd make that sacrifice. I'd hate to declare somebody "unmuutal" but
>if
>> it's him or you. I choose you.
>
>And if the offender keeps changing names? I still say LMA's way
>(closing off registrations, i.e. no new people) is the only way to be
>sure.
Maybe there's another possibility. When I asked Paul whether he'd be
willing to refrain from making remarks about JMS on the moderated
group -- on the supposition that JMS isn't interested in making
unsolicited remarks about him -- he told me that he'd be glad to, but
that he didn't think the moderators and JMS would agree.
Conversely, Paul told Jay that he reserved the right to return if JMS
did the same.
I've seen too many newsgroups destroyed by this kind of battle.
Ganging up does no good, because it just forces the less powerful
person to preserve his honor by fighting back. And because you can't
do a very good job of controlling access to a newsgroup, you end up
with a mess reminiscent of the Middle East, or Londo and G'kar stuck
in the elevator.
There's a precedent for this in the decision of the moderators to cut
off the political threads when they spiraled out of control. It worked
very well in that case -- I mean, we Democrats have since voluntarily
refrained from continuing our battle for truth, justice, and the
American way, while the Republicans have voluntarily refrained from
arguing for all that is twisted, ugly, and hateful . . .
--
Josh
"I love it when I'm around the country club, and I hear people talking about the debilitating
effects of a welfare society. At the same time, they leave their kids a lifetime and beyond
of food stamps. Instead of having a welfare officer, they have a trust officer. And instead
of food stamps, they have stocks and bonds."
- Warren Buffett
Kurt Ullman
"Doug Freyburger" <dfre...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Or turning off the auto-approve function and hand moderating
> everything. I'm a moderator of a group that is currently in that
> state. We'd love to put our regulars on auto-approval but there's
> too much history of trolls to allow us to do it. I don't know if we'll
> ever be able to or if the noise will eventually settle down.
> RASTB5.mod is a model for excellence in the UseNet moderation
> world.
>
One that I'm familiar with has a white list (those such as your
self and myself and Himself) that are just passed through. A grey list,
usually newbies or those who have been a little PITA that are hand
moderated and the black list that are automatically bitbucketed, as it
were.
Sorta nice symmetry with B5.
Bill
> The problem with killfiles is, of course, that when the system quotes
> messages, they get repeated.
>
> I've now had several email conversations with the moderators, who have
> given me their assurances that this will be fixed henceforth, and asked
> that I give the process another shot. In the spirit of cooperation,
> I'm willing to give them the opportunity to demonstrate that. So we'll
> take this one step at a time, and I will give them, and the process,
> the benefit of the doubt.
>
> My apologies for the fray, but sometimes a raised public voice is the
> only way to get done what private inertia obstructs. That being done,
> let's see if we can make this work.
>
> So: onward.
>
> jms
FWIW I'm doubtless one of many who is happy that you reconsidered.
We're here to discuss and debate B5, follow your progress on other
projects, and occasionally bask in the light of others who share those
interests. I'd be really surprised in anyone else really cared about
the troll. Thanks for coming back.
Bill
Joseph DeMartino
> And if the offender keeps changing names? I still say LMA's way
> (closing off registrations, i.e. no new people) is the only way to be
> sure.
Exactly. I say we take off and nuke the site from orbit. It's the
only way to be sure.
<g>
Joe
Thunder 06
> Carved in mystic runes upon the very living rock, the last words of
> <jms...@aol.com> of rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated make plain:
>>Obviously your cat has seen an advance copy of my talk this weekend at
>>SDCC....
>
>
> Most likely he attended Buddy's presentation at CatCon '06.
I wonder if Joe can get Buddy to sign a non-disclosure agreement for the
future? Or is that wishful thinking? :)
t.k.
Mac Breck
news:1153323034.3...@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Yeah, I heard that line as I was typing the post. <g>
Joseph DeMartino
> Obviously your cat has seen an advance copy of my talk this weekend at
> SDCC....
You know, Joe, one could almost get the idea that you *enjoy* stringing
your fans along like this. Rather like a cat playing with a mouse. Of
course we all know better, but still...
Joe
Charlie Edmondson
>
> There's a precedent for this in the decision of the moderators to cut
> off the political threads when they spiraled out of control. It worked
> very well in that case -- I mean, we Democrats have since voluntarily
> refrained from continuing our battle for truth, justice, and the
> American way, while the Republicans have voluntarily refrained from
> arguing for all that is twisted, ugly, and hateful . . .
>
Hey Josh!
Where's the smiley! 8-)
Charlie
Angelika Tobisch
> Couldn't y'all just ban the current cretin and then "close" the newsgroup to
> new members? I doubt that there are many legitimate applicants at this
> point anyway, with the series over for so very long,
There are people buying the DVDs and watching the show for the first
time. Apart from myself I actually know of several others.
> and even if there are,
> :shrug: it would be a small price to pay to keep jms in the forum. Let's
> face it, his occasional news and participation are/were the main reason this
> group exists at all -- without him, this is nothing but
> rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5 only with a smaller circle of posters.
While I understand the intent I don't think this how new converts should
be treated. Especially if you're still hoping for new developments in
the B5-universe.
Just my 0.02 Eurocent,
Angelika
Josh Hill
What smiley? It's merely a statement of fact. :-)
Ron Peterson
> Obviously your cat has seen an advance copy of my talk this weekend at
> SDCC....
> jms
You ... tease, you! This good news, I hope.
Ron (the Anti-Harper)
Trish Crowther
Or Nuke's cat has a telepathic link with Buddy...
Now, we just have to wait till SDCC (and for someone who attends to
post here).
Trish
Mike De Lucia
>Since the moderators cannot remove this individual due to his threats
>to remain no matter their actions, or the intentions or guidelines of
>this group, it seems that I therefore have no choice but to absent
>myself from this group. It is for this reason that I have already
>mainly stopped reading and posting, and the members of this group, who
>have participated in good faith for so long, deserve an explanation.
>
>jms
>
>
This is a true shame. I've been lurking this newsgroup and the
non-moderated one before it and I've learned a lot from you about
writing and the industry and, of course, your shows. It's a shame to
let one bad apple spoil this particular barrel after what appears from
this side to be a less than concerted effort to drive him off. Sure,
he's threatened to switch ISPs and return. I say, make him do it.
Perhaps he will be really persistent, but perhaps he'll get bored and
wander off.
It's selfish of me, I know. After so long having your words and wisdom
and quirky humor available more-or-less on demand, it's very sad to
see it end, especially so ignominiously.
If you won't consider giving it another shot, and certainly I'll
understand if you won't - this was supposed to be a fun place for you
to come and hang out and having a malcontent constantly digging at you
must be enormously frustrating - I wonder if you might consider a blog
or somesuch online where you could post similar to what you tend to
post here, just without the back-and-forth dialogue of Usenet? It
would be a small consolation, but any online presence is going to be
better than none at all.
Warm regards either way. You've been probably the most accessible
member of the entertainment industry now for longer than any of your
peers, and it's been a pleasure interacting with you, if only
generally from afar.
Mike
Jere Lull
jms...@aol.com wrote:
> I have discussed this previously with the moderators, who say they are
> powerless to keep him out, that he has made it clear to them that he
> does not and will not respect the will of either the moderators or the
> members of this newsgroup
This is a shame.
I hope the moderators will persist with this <unprintable> until he
gives up. Eventually, he'll run out of options. A little sleuthing may
short-cut the process and complaints to his ISP(s) with a solid "paper"
trail can help.
--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/
Nicole Massey
news:GXfvg.11927$rT6.10313@trnddc03...
> Except that jms apparently needs to be completely positive the pest isn't
> coming back and is concerned about the threat of him signing up as
> someone else -- he specifically mentions that in his goodbye post. The
> only way to make certain he's gone is to ban him and not let *anyone* else
> come in. Extreme measures, yes, but otherwise we've lost jms. This is
> exactly the reason this group was formed in the first place -- to maintain
> a forum where he felt comfortable participating. Otherwise, as I said,
> there's little point for rastb5.mod anymore.
There is another way. Draft several people who have proven themselves into
the list of moderators, and put every new person on moderation for a long
time, and anyone who goes even the slightest borderline gets put on
moderation. It means a lot more time spent moderating the group, but it
would keep the jerks in line, and they would get, at the most, one message
out before being clamped down. This seems preferable to closing the group,
but it means more work in moderation duties.
Iva
> messages, they get repeated.
>
> I've now had several email conversations with the moderators, who have
> given me their assurances that this will be fixed henceforth, and asked
> that I give the process another shot. In the spirit of cooperation,
> I'm willing to give them the opportunity to demonstrate that. So we'll
> take this one step at a time, and I will give them, and the process,
> the benefit of the doubt.
>
> My apologies for the fray, but sometimes a raised public voice is the
> only way to get done what private inertia obstructs. That being done,
> let's see if we can make this work.
>
> So: onward.
>
> jms
Thanks for giving the NG another chance - hopefully you'll be able to stick
around and continue to feed us tidbits. A troll that is willing to change
ISPs just to continue trolling is one of the lowest forms of "life" IMHO.
And tell Buddy that he forgot to tell *my* cats! ;)
-----
Iva
Wendy of NJ
>
>The Nuclear Marine wrote:
>> "Mac Breck" <macthe...@yahoo.com> wrote in news:44bddb9c$0$3657$ecde5a14
>> @news.coretel.net:
>>
>> > <jms...@aol.com> wrote in message
>> > news:1153285953.9...@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> So: onward.
>> >>
>> >> jms
>> >
>> > Good to hear. Without you, we'd probably be witnessing The Passing of
>> > Rastb5m.
>> >
>>
>> Nah, it would just limp along till the next B5 project resusitated
>> interest.
>>
>> And there will be a next B5 project, the cat outside on my porch promised
>> me. I typed that out loud, didn't I?
>>
>> Nuke
>
>Obviously your cat has seen an advance copy of my talk this weekend at
>SDCC....
>
>jms
>
OOOH.
this weekend can't come fast enough for me now...
-Wendy
Methuselah Jones
> Laura Appelbaum schrieb:
>
>> Couldn't y'all just ban the current cretin and then "close" the
>> newsgroup to new members? I doubt that there are many legitimate
>> applicants at this point anyway, with the series over for so very
>> long,
>
> There are people buying the DVDs and watching the show for the first
> time. Apart from myself I actually know of several others.
Our library now has all five seasons, and they are regularly checked out.
--
Methuselah
"Failure is impossible for those who refuse to abandon their goals."
-- Mary C. Zornio
Kay Shapero
jms...@aol.com says...
>
> My apologies for the fray, but sometimes a raised public voice is the
> only way to get done what private inertia obstructs. That being done,
> let's see if we can make this work.
>
Fair 'nuff. Personal moderation experience is that the way to proceed
is to moderate behaviour - a user who behaves can be using any name and
it doesn't matter; likewise one who doesn't, whose posts can then be
culled. I hope this does work out; your posts are one reason I read this
ng, besides which it would be a pity to see anyone chased out of here by
a slimy cyberstalker.
Incidentally, many newsreaders (I use Gravity) do make it possible to
search messages as well as headers, though it does mean it has to
download them to look at them. There was once a user in another ng I
read who made such a censored of himself that I did this; set it to look
for his id in ANY format, and as far as I was concerned, he vanished
from the net.
--
Kay Shapero
http://www.kayshapero.net
Kay Shapero
John.W....@gmail.com says...
> There are times (and this is one of them) when I think it was a mistake
> to have abolished dueling....
Sometimes the rule we have over on rec.music.filk that flamewars must be
conducted entirely in filksongs has much the same effect. :)
>
> In the meantime, Harper is triumphing on other newsgroups, bathing in
> the glory of his own self-admiration. I'd try to shoot him down, but
> he's too dull to be insulted by anything less than, say, the "Deadwood"
> word, which would leave /me/ feeling, artistically, quite unfulfilled,
> with a sense of insultus interruptus, as it were.
>
So put it in verse or song lyrics to a well known tune. Even if he
doesn't understand it, everybody else will. :)
... I see dumb people. Walking around like everybody else. And some of
them don't even know they're dumb...
Laura Appelbaum
>> "Chris Patterson" <chris_s_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:chris_s_patterson-F...@individual.net...
>>
>> > I must admit I'm a bit surprised about this -- maybe because I
>> > killfiled
>> > ("created a filter" in MT-Newswatcher parlance) Mr. Harper some time
>> > ago
>> > and haven't seen his posts. Was there some reason you could not do so?
>> > It would seem a less drastic step than leaving the group completely. I
>> > don't want to seem disrespectful here -- it's just the engineer in me
>> > trying to find a way to fix things.
>> >
>> I ditto that, especially since, as a Luddite, I just don't click on and
>> expand/read posts from people I don't want to listen to. It doesn't even
>> require a computer program/filter to do that. I guess the temptation to
>> see
>> what the jerk was saying was just too great for jms to avoid. :(
>>
>> LMA
>
> The problem with killfiles is, of course, that when the system quotes
> messages, they get repeated.
>
organic technology is *always* superior. ;D
> I've now had several email conversations with the moderators, who have
> given me their assurances that this will be fixed henceforth, and asked
> that I give the process another shot. In the spirit of cooperation,
> I'm willing to give them the opportunity to demonstrate that.
Woo-hoo!!! That's good news! We'd all miss you terribly -- even those of
us who disagree with you ... once in a while. ;D
Well, at least those of us who sometimes disagree with you but aren't
assholes. <G>
So we'll
> take this one step at a time, and I will give them, and the process,
> the benefit of the doubt.
I'd like to appeal to all my fellow non-jms posters to help this all along
by *NOT REPLYING OVER AND OVER TO TROLLS* If everyone else stopped feeding
the egos of fools by continuing the threads they get involved in, not jms
would have less problems reading the threads he wants to read because we
wouldn't continue otherwise interesting discussions in a thread he
understandably wants to avoid.
Ten years here and on the net and I've never quite understood why this
temptation -- to talk to trolls as if they are reasonable people -- is so
hard for others to resist.
> My apologies for the fray, but sometimes a raised public voice is the
> only way to get done what private inertia obstructs. That being done,
> let's see if we can make this work.
As Tim Gunn says; "carry on!"
LMA
Jan
I've arrived and checked into the hotel. Thanks, Mac, I've got an extra set of
batteries for everything. And I've got *two* recorders this time!
Jan
--
We are the voice of the universe, the soul of creation,
The fire that will light the way to a better future.
We are One.
IA Declaration of Principles
(J. Michael Straczynski)
Laura Appelbaum
"Charlie Edmondson" <edmo...@ieee.org> wrote in message
news:44be...@news.cadence.com...
Bwahaha! :D
*That's* good political satire.
The fact that it's true only makes it better, right? <G>
LMA
Laura Appelbaum
<jms...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1153297125.0...@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
>
> The Nuclear Marine wrote:
>> "Mac Breck" <macthe...@yahoo.com> wrote in
>> news:44bddb9c$0$3657$ecde5a14
>> @news.coretel.net:
>>
>> > <jms...@aol.com> wrote in message
>> > news:1153285953.9...@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> So: onward.
>> >>
>> >> jms
>> >
>> > Good to hear. Without you, we'd probably be witnessing The Passing of
>> > Rastb5m.
>> >
>>
>> Nah, it would just limp along till the next B5 project resusitated
>> interest.
>>
>> And there will be a next B5 project, the cat outside on my porch promised
>> me. I typed that out loud, didn't I?
>>
>> Nuke
>
> Obviously your cat has seen an advance copy of my talk this weekend at
> SDCC....
>
> jms
>
you left here. And I don't know that we can take that.
LMA
Jan
He might have told Jay that also but it was Jan he told it to over on the UK
group. When he'd originally told me and (I understand) others late last year
that if told he was b locked, he'd leave and stay away--no strings attached
then.
Josh Hill
You said it, not I . . . :-)
Josh Hill
>In article <4efsb29p318hep96v...@4ax.com>, Josh Hill says...
>>
>>>And if the offender keeps changing names? I still say LMA's way
>>>(closing off registrations, i.e. no new people) is the only way to be
>>>sure.
>>
>>Maybe there's another possibility. When I asked Paul whether he'd be
>>willing to refrain from making remarks about JMS on the moderated
>>group -- on the supposition that JMS isn't interested in making
>>unsolicited remarks about him -- he told me that he'd be glad to, but
>>that he didn't think the moderators and JMS would agree.
>>
>>Conversely, Paul told Jay that he reserved the right to return if JMS
>>did the same.
>
>He might have told Jay that also but it was Jan he told it to over on the UK
>group. When he'd originally told me and (I understand) others late last year
>that if told he was b locked, he'd leave and stay away--no strings attached
>then.
Oops, sorry -- I was referring to the post on the UK group. What's the
word for final letter dyslexia?
Jeffrey Kaplan
> Couldn't y'all just ban the current cretin and then "close" the newsgroup to
> new members? I doubt that there are many legitimate applicants at this
> point anyway, with the series over for so very long, and even if there are,
> :shrug: it would be a small price to pay to keep jms in the forum. Let's
That would lock out any current poster who legitimately changes their
email address.
--
Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
The from userid is killfiled Send personal mail to gordol
Tips for the Trusted Lieutenant: 4. If you fail to complete your
mission, skip town. Returning to the Evil Overlord to report on your
failure will usually get you killed.
Jeffrey Kaplan
> The problem with killfiles is, of course, that when the system quotes
> messages, they get repeated.
Not if you use a newsreader that can kill subthreads. Then you don't
see the responses, either.
> I've now had several email conversations with the moderators, who have
> given me their assurances that this will be fixed henceforth, and asked
> that I give the process another shot. In the spirit of cooperation,
> I'm willing to give them the opportunity to demonstrate that. So we'll
> take this one step at a time, and I will give them, and the process,
> the benefit of the doubt.
Yay!
Jeffrey Kaplan
> So, I assume then that you are volunteering? The people you are slamming
> here for an alleged inability to do their "jobs" have spent ten years doing
> this on their own dime, on their own time, clearly for little appreciation.
> We've got a problem here, no question, but dissing a group of volunteers who
> have done something that has worked, by and large, really well up until this
> point, is hardly the solution.
If I thought I'd have the time to help moderate the group, I would
indeed volunteer.
My "slam", as you put it, is my assessment of the situation as reported
by JMS. It was he who reported that the moderators were unwilling to
even attempt to enforce the rules in the face of what the violator
himself said was going to be a flagrant and obvious violation of said
rules, not me.
Wesley Struebing
Skirvin) wrote:
>jms...@aol.com writes:
>
>> The reason is that I have been reading, and thus replying, less than
>> before, because it seems that nearly every thread have a posting by an
>> individual who has dedicated himself to the task of insulting me on a
>> constant basis, on a personal and professional basis.
>
> Did you try filtering him?
>
>> I have discussed this previously with the moderators, who say they are
>> powerless to keep him out,
>
> I find this hard to believe. It may be *difficult* to keep him
>out - as a moderator, I'm quite aware of the difficulties - but Jay's a
>sharp guy, and should be able to handle it. I could help out, if you're
>interested.
>
> But if you want to go, that's your call. I just hope it's not
>really because a moderated group isn't protecting enough.
>
Prolly could be done with more certitude, Tim, but remember, as Jay
(and others) has said - the moderation here is purposefully
light-handed.
It is, therefore, a real dilemma.
--
Wes Struebing
I pledge allegiance to the Constitution of the United States of America,
and to the republic which it established, one nation from many peoples,
promising liberty and justice for all.
Wesley Struebing
>
>Laura Appelbaum wrote:
>> "Chris Patterson" <chris_s_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:chris_s_patterson-F...@individual.net...
>>
>> > I must admit I'm a bit surprised about this -- maybe because I killfiled
>> > ("created a filter" in MT-Newswatcher parlance) Mr. Harper some time ago
>> > and haven't seen his posts. Was there some reason you could not do so?
>> > It would seem a less drastic step than leaving the group completely. I
>> > don't want to seem disrespectful here -- it's just the engineer in me
>> > trying to find a way to fix things.
>> >
>> I ditto that, especially since, as a Luddite, I just don't click on and
>> expand/read posts from people I don't want to listen to. It doesn't even
>> require a computer program/filter to do that. I guess the temptation to see
>> what the jerk was saying was just too great for jms to avoid. :(
>>
>> LMA
>
>The problem with killfiles is, of course, that when the system quotes
>messages, they get repeated.
>
>I've now had several email conversations with the moderators, who have
>given me their assurances that this will be fixed henceforth, and asked
>that I give the process another shot. In the spirit of cooperation,
>I'm willing to give them the opportunity to demonstrate that. So we'll
>take this one step at a time, and I will give them, and the process,
>the benefit of the doubt.
>
>My apologies for the fray, but sometimes a raised public voice is the
>only way to get done what private inertia obstructs. That being done,
>let's see if we can make this work.
>
>So: onward.
>
Hoping it works out, Joe. And (tentatively) welcome back, sir!
Wesley Struebing
wrote:
>Mac Breck wrote:
>>
>> And if the offender keeps changing names?
>
>Doing that will cause your ISP to pull your account. The problem
>is there are an unlimited number of ISPs around and some of
>them are rogues that don't follow that rule. Chasing a poster
>off of his ISP account works for the casual troll, but all it does
>to the dedicated ones is drive them towards those rogue ISPs.
It seems that so many ISP's don't care any more. The problem is not
endemic to rastb5.mod...<sigh>
>
>> I still say LMA's way
>> (closing off registrations, i.e. no new people) is the only way to be
>> sure.
True, Mack (and Laura), but as has been pointed out, we DO get new
blood from time-to-time. I see no reason to block that out. But
that's just me.