JMS: Anything new going on?
Michael Malloy
down side is none of them seem in have anything to do with Babylon 5 or
Crusade at this time.
Nothing would make this fan happier than word of some way to continue
the original storyline for Crusade. In the best world, a backer would
appear who doesn't mess with JMS's work and the original cast members
could be rounded up again. Since it is more likely that I will get a
ride on a Minbari cruiser, why not finish the original idea in written
form? Or annimated? The cast assembled for Crusade did a remarkable job
under the worst circumstances to stamp their images and voices on those
characters! I am able to see vividly in my mind those actors when I
read any of the books with Babylon 5 characters in them. Galen is so
perfectly portrayed I can't begin to imagine anyone else in that role.
Let's face it. I'm a Crusade junkie. I get my fix by watching "A Call
to Arms" and the 13 episodes over and over as needed. I'm beggin you,
JMS...finish the story.
Joseph DeMartino
Because someone would still have to *pay* for this stuff. A publisher
would have to be persuaded that there is a mass-market for a book or
series of books. Given that there doesn't seem to have been a very
substantial market for books based on the much better known "Babylon
5", there seems little chance that a publisher will take a chance on
"Crusade". And what do you mean by "animated"? When did Warner Bros.
last do a feature length animated film? TV? Same objection as to a
live action series from the point of view of money and finding a TV
distributor and time slots for such a series.
It isn't even a matter of "a backer" materializing, because JMS doesn't
own any of the rights to "Crusade". A quirk in his "B5" contract left
him with the theatrical film rights, but I'm not aware that he has any
similiar rights to "Crusade"
JMS can't just decide to do something new with "Crusade". Warner Bros.
has to want to do it in the case of TV or film, or a publisher has to
come to them and buy the publication rights in the case of books - and
then WB has to approve the plan. Only at that point would they
approach JMS about becoming involved as producer, writer, consultant or
whatever, depending on the nature of the project.
And I just don't think that anybody's banging on WB's doors begging for
a chance to do more "Crusade"
I wish it were otherwise, but there you have it.
Regards,
Joe
Mac Breck
news:1147620895....@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> > Since it is more likely that I will get a ride on a Minbari cruiser,
why not finish the original idea in written form? Or annimated? <
>
> Because someone would still have to *pay* for this stuff. A publisher
> would have to be persuaded that there is a mass-market for a book or
> series of books. Given that there doesn't seem to have been a very
> substantial market for books based on the much better known "Babylon
> 5", there seems little chance that a publisher will take a chance on
> "Crusade".
So call it "Babylon 5: Crusade." ;-)
> It isn't even a matter of "a backer" materializing, because JMS
doesn't
> own any of the rights to "Crusade". A quirk in his "B5" contract left
> him with the theatrical film rights, but I'm not aware that he has any
> similiar rights to "Crusade"
So, a backer would have to go to Warner Brothers to get the rights for
the purposes of a book series, for awhile.
> JMS can't just decide to do something new with "Crusade". Warner
Bros.
> has to want to do it in the case of TV or film, or a publisher has to
> come to them and buy the publication rights in the case of books - and
> then WB has to approve the plan. Only at that point would they
> approach JMS about becoming involved as producer, writer, consultant
or
> whatever, depending on the nature of the project.
Exactly. However, a backer could have JMS in the loop before
approaching WB, just to let him know what's going on.
> And I just don't think that anybody's banging on WB's doors begging
for
> a chance to do more "Crusade"
They better not be begging, because then Warner Brothers would take 'em
to the cleaners. WB: "You want it how badly? Hmmm. <evil grin>"
At best, they better look mildly interested.
--
Mac Breck (KoshN)
-------------------------------
"Babylon 5: Crusade" (1999)
Galen: "There is always hope, only because it's the one thing that no
one has figured out how to kill yet."
(Galen's obviously never met Warner Brothers, TNT-Atlanta or Sci-Fi.)
"Brimstone" (1998)
[Stone lights a candle for the dead in a Catholic church]
Gina: Who's that for?
Ezekiel Stone: Me.
Mac Breck
news:1147490318.6...@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
> We know JMS is busy with several projects, which is great news. The
> down side is none of them seem in have anything to do with Babylon 5
or
> Crusade at this time.
>
> Nothing would make this fan happier than word of some way to continue
> the original storyline for Crusade. In the best world, a backer would
> appear who doesn't mess with JMS's work and the original cast members
> could be rounded up again.
Agreed!
> Since it is more likely that I will get a
> ride on a Minbari cruiser,....
The odds are probably not quite that bad. Close, but not "completely
impossible" ....just 1 in 1 in 146,107,962.
http://www.powerball.com/powerball/pb_prizes.asp
>.... why not finish the original idea in written
> form? Or annimated?
I leave it to JoeD to tell you why not.
> The cast assembled for Crusade did a remarkable job
> under the worst circumstances to stamp their images and voices on
those
> characters! I am able to see vividly in my mind those actors when I
> read any of the books with Babylon 5 characters in them. Galen is so
> perfectly portrayed I can't begin to imagine anyone else in that role.
>
> Let's face it. I'm a Crusade junkie. I get my fix by watching "A Call
> to Arms" and the 13 episodes over and over as needed.
My feelings exactly.
> I'm beggin you, JMS...finish the story.
Again, I defer to JoeD.
Mac Breck
news:4467d23d$0$3691$ecde...@news.coretel.net...
> ... ....just 1 in 1 in 146,107,962.
Drat!!! Copied too much. Well, you know what I meant. 1 in
146,107,962.
Doug Freyburger
>
> > Since it is more likely that I will get a ride on a Minbari cruiser, why
> > not finish the original idea in written form? Or annimated?
>
> Because someone would still have to *pay* for this stuff. A publisher
> would have to be persuaded that there is a mass-market for a book or
> series of books.
There's a boatload of books based on Star Wars and all ot the Star
Trek series. This could be a way to get authors published and into
the production line for those. If both Joe and Warner Bros would
okay it.
> Given that there doesn't seem to have been a very
> substantial market for books based on the much better known "Babylon
> 5", there seems little chance that a publisher will take a chance on
> "Crusade".
I see so many paprbacks and audios about SW and ST I wonder.
Is the universe "in the can" enough that Joe would let it continue
on its own the way SW and ST have in the novels? Joe's been
selling his scripts and that sounds far too much like putting the
icing on the cake and moving on to other projects to me.
> And what do you mean by "animated"? When did Warner Bros.
> last do a feature length animated film? TV? Same objection as to a
> live action series from the point of view of money and finding a TV
> distributor and time slots for such a series.
Much higher budget to do a video than a novel.
> And I just don't think that anybody's banging on WB's doors begging for
> a chance to do more "Crusade"
>
> I wish it were otherwise, but there you have it.
Aspiring authors take note. It might be worth sketching an outlive
and trying to approach WB.
Jan
Freyburger says...
>
>Joseph DeMartino wrote:
>>
>> > Since it is more likely that I will get a ride on a Minbari cruiser, why
>> > not finish the original idea in written form? Or annimated?
>>
>> Because someone would still have to *pay* for this stuff. A publisher
>> would have to be persuaded that there is a mass-market for a book or
>> series of books.
>
>There's a boatload of books based on Star Wars and all ot the Star
>Trek series. This could be a way to get authors published and into
>the production line for those. If both Joe and Warner Bros would
>okay it.
That's because those ST ans SW books *sell well*. For all we complain of the
non-existant marketing of the previous B5 books, the unfortunate fact is that
they didn't sell well enough for the publisher to maintain interest in doing any
more. Heck, they printed so few of the last book of the last trilogy that it's
now going for over $60 on Ebay because it's so hard to find!
>> Given that there doesn't seem to have been a very
>> substantial market for books based on the much better known "Babylon
>> 5", there seems little chance that a publisher will take a chance on
>> "Crusade".
>
>I see so many paprbacks and audios about SW and ST I wonder.
SW and ST are *much* better known by the average consumer than B5.
>Is the universe "in the can" enough that Joe would let it continue
>on its own the way SW and ST have in the novels? Joe's been
>selling his scripts and that sounds far too much like putting the
>icing on the cake and moving on to other projects to me.
He moved on to other projects several years ago. As he said back then, any
further projects on the B5 universe are lagniappe. He's willing to entertain
any project that comes up but he's not knocking on doors.
>> And what do you mean by "animated"? When did Warner Bros.
>> last do a feature length animated film? TV? Same objection as to a
>> live action series from the point of view of money and finding a TV
>> distributor and time slots for such a series.
>
>Much higher budget to do a video than a novel.
>
>> And I just don't think that anybody's banging on WB's doors begging for
>> a chance to do more "Crusade"
>>
>> I wish it were otherwise, but there you have it.
>
>Aspiring authors take note. It might be worth sketching an outlive
>and trying to approach WB.
No, find a publisher who's willing to fork over big bucks to WB for the license
to publish something and then send them a proposal.
Like Joe DeM, I wish it were different but that's the way things are.
Jan
--
We are the voice of the universe, the soul of creation,
The fire that will light the way to a better future.
We are One.
IA Declaration of Principles
(J. Michael Straczynski)
Joseph DeMartino
heap of typing. <g>
Regards,
Joe
Matthew Sprange
> the original storyline for Crusade. In the best world, a backer would
Look out for the novels early next year. . .
Matthew Sprange
Mongoose Publishing
http://www.mongoosepublishing.com
Michael Malloy
DeMartino to put me into a depression tailspin. Reality sucks. No
offense Joe. I remain in awe of your vast knowledge on subjects
involving Babylon 5 and the entertainment industry.
WB owns all rights to the future of Babylon 5 and Crusade. That's
depressing all by itself!
As one writer comically hinted, JMS could call a continuation something
else. Well? Why not? How closely is Crusade held hostage by WB? Is the
complete story line owned by WB? Are the character names owned by WB?
What would stop JMS from creating a "new" project IF a generous
employer dropped out of the sky and hit him on the head? He could
certainly come up with a series name not copyrighted by WB. Names of
characters "could" be changed but their personalities certainly
wouldn't be "owned" by WB. For crying out loud, use the actors REAL
names, for example, or change spelling enough to get by copyright
issues. The faces and sounds of their voices are permanently part of
the Crusade story no matter what it is called and how they are named.
Another question for JMS:
Do YOU have a complete scenario for the story of Crusade in your head?
How much of it can you privately sketch out, at least in outline, in
case you ever have the opportunity to continue a story beloved by a
few? (That "few" part is a particularly difficult pill to swallow!)
I'm realistic enough to accept without question that a ton of money
would be required to jump start WB. If only I won a MEGA-Lottery, like
Hurly did on LOST...
Mac Breck
news:kfednZjBc7q...@bt.com...
Let's say that one of us alone wins the Powerball jackpot for $300
million, and single-handedly backs a re-start of Crusade and it's
continuation for 101 new episodes, guaranteed (no more nail biting
between seasons). What I want to see is THAT storyline unfold in
novels, not some non-canon novels that are not based upon detailed JMS
outlines like the Del Rey ones were, and which have no JMS involvement.
Without that, what you have is something similar to Dell books 1 thru 6
& 8, and you know what high regard most of us hold Dell 1 thru 6 & 8.<S>
What is needed is not some made-up stuff by any ol' "writer" you can
get, doing what they think ~~might~~ have been in the Crusade storyline,
but a continuation of the CANON Crusade storyline.
Jan
Malloy says...
>
>Sigh. Nothing like a "reality check" from our resident expert Joseph
>DeMartino to put me into a depression tailspin. Reality sucks. No
>offense Joe. I remain in awe of your vast knowledge on subjects
>involving Babylon 5 and the entertainment industry.
>
>WB owns all rights to the future of Babylon 5 and Crusade. That's
>depressing all by itself!
Not quite. JMS owns the rights to do a feature film.
>As one writer comically hinted, JMS could call a continuation something
>else. Well? Why not? How closely is Crusade held hostage by WB? Is the
>complete story line owned by WB? Are the character names owned by WB?
From a JMS post:
<<WB owns it all. WB owns the copyright on B5 (as does every studio
producing a series, as Paramount owns ST), and anything produced in the
process of making that show. >>
The entire post is at:
http://www.jmsnews.com/msg.aspx?id=1-11843&query=Warner%20Bros%20owns
>What would stop JMS from creating a "new" project IF a generous
>employer dropped out of the sky and hit him on the head? He could
>certainly come up with a series name not copyrighted by WB. Names of
>characters "could" be changed but their personalities certainly
>wouldn't be "owned" by WB. For crying out loud, use the actors REAL
>names, for example, or change spelling enough to get by copyright
>issues. The faces and sounds of their voices are permanently part of
>the Crusade story no matter what it is called and how they are named.
You mean aside from the fact that it would be dishonorable? Do you really think
so little of him to think he'd do something like that?
Sigh...let it go. Perhaps someday there'll be something else set in the B5
universe. I really hope so. Until then, savor the story that we have and don't
try to tie JMS down and fence him into one universe. He's been telling some
pretty good stories since B5/Crusade ended, you know.
Mox Fulder
> Thanks, Jan. My carpal tunnel is acting up and you just saved me a
> heap of typing. <g>
I'm not sure I understand. Can you rephrase, elaborate, and provide
examples?
--
20060515 1650
This .sig is not available at the moment. Leave your message after the beep.
Joseph DeMartino
employer dropped out of the sky and hit him on the head? He could
certainly come up with a series name not copyrighted by WB. Names of
characters "could" be changed but their personalities certainly
wouldn't be "owned" by WB. <
It isn't a matter of names or titles. (Neither of which can be
copyrighted, by the way.) JMS could no more do a continuation of
"Crusade" with the serial numbers filed off than I could sell a show
calld "The Y-Files" about an FBI Agent named Mox Fulder. <g> If there
are enough similiarties to recognize it, there are enough to make it a
violation of copyright. And the "Crusade" story itself is an extension
of and sequel to "Babylon 5" - ALL derivative rights to these works
(except for a theatrical film in the case of "B5") are owned by Warner
Bros. Trust me, there are no loopholes. In addition to copyright,
which eventually expires, certain things are also covered by trademark,
which doesn't. ("U.S.S. Enterprise" and "Starship Enterprise" are
both trademarked. No one else can use them in the context of a science
fiction TV show or movies, or derivative works. The Babylon 5 station,
the various logos, are all no doubt trademarked.)
Did you read any of the posts above? You can't do a TV series without
a network willing to run the show. You can't publish a book without a
publisher willing to buy the rights and then pay the writers and
produce the books. It is NOT a matter of showing up at the front gate
of Warner Bros. with a sack full of money.
Regards,
Joe
Joseph DeMartino
would have responded to, hence saving me lots of typing. (You know, I
thought that was a lot clearer than it apparently was. <g>)
Regards,
Joe
Josh Hill
wrote:
>That's because those ST ans SW books *sell well*. For all we complain of the
>non-existant marketing of the previous B5 books, the unfortunate fact is that
>they didn't sell well enough for the publisher to maintain interest in doing any
>more. Heck, they printed so few of the last book of the last trilogy that it's
>now going for over $60 on Ebay because it's so hard to find!
Figures. I mean, if I throw something away when I'm done with it, you
/know/ it's going to end up going for $60 . . .
--
Josh
"I'm not going to play like I've been a person who's spent hours involved with foreign policy.
I am who I am." - George W. Bush
Jan
DeMartino says...
Oh, I'm sure it was, Joe. If he'd been serious, he should have asked you for
footnotes, too. They're all the rage lately. <g>
Mox Fulder
Dude. I was just giving you a hard time, re: carpal tunnel.
--
20060515 1910
John W. Kennedy
> Did you read any of the posts above? You can't do a TV series without
> a network willing to run the show. You can't publish a book without a
> publisher willing to buy the rights and then pay the writers and
> produce the books. It is NOT a matter of showing up at the front gate
> of Warner Bros. with a sack full of money.
Well, it would take a /lot/ of money -- a subsidy of a hundred million
or so would allow WB to sell it at a price that a network could hardly
refuse.
Or I suppose you could approach (say) the Sci-Fi Channel and guarantee
them a ripe commercial income up front, then try to sell the commercial
time yourself....
(Neither scheme would work, of course, if the show were a ratings
stinker; but that doesn't really apply here.)
As I have said many times before, I doubt that JMS is remotely
interested in "finishing 'Crusade'" with novels. He didn't conceive the
story that way.
--
John W. Kennedy
"The blind rulers of Logres
Nourished the land on a fallacy of rational virtue."
-- Charles Williams. "Taliessin through Logres: Prelude"
Mac Breck
[....]
> ....You can't do a TV series without
> a network willing to run the show. You can't publish a book without a
> publisher willing to buy the rights and then pay the writers and
> produce the books. It is NOT a matter of showing up at the front gate
> of Warner Bros. with a sack full of money.
Well, I guess two sacks full of money are needed, one for Warner
Brothers and one for the network or publisher.
Duggy
> "Mac Breck" <macthe...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:4467d23d$0$3691$ecde...@news.coretel.net...
> > ... ....just 1 in 1 in 146,107,962.
> Drat!!! Copied too much. Well, you know what I meant. 1 in
> 146,107,962.
As opposed to 1 in 6250.
<http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,19148194-2,00.html>
Does that mean that it's 2377 time more likely that the Asteriod
Apophis will hit the Earth than you will win powerball this week?
===
= DUG.
===
Matthew Sprange
> & 8, and you know what high regard most of us hold Dell 1 thru 6 & 8.<S>
With the exception that the new stories are being done by people and a
company who know the Babylon 5 universe intimately, and have already
demonstrated the care, respect and attention the property deserves.
Continuity is foremost in our minds, and nothing has been left to chance.
You might be surprised. You might find you actually _like_ the new novels.
The galaxy is, after all, a big place and there is enough room for new
stories and new points of view. . .
Michael Malloy
alex_t
then may be remake of "Babylon 5" (with story as originally intended -
Sinclair as main guy for all 5 years). And of course movie "Babylon 5:
The Telepath Conflict" :-)
And in this case I will be JMS's personal cerber with regards to
defending his creativity from "business" ;-)
Mac Breck
news:1147754142.0...@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
23377 times*. You lost a 3.
*assuming I still play the lottery. In the past I never played it much,
and currently, I don't play it at all. Can't remember the last
Powerball ticket I bought, but I don't think it was this year.
Mac Breck
news:GGbag.1935$RM1...@fe12.lga...
> Joseph DeMartino wrote:
> > Did you read any of the posts above? You can't do a TV series
without
> > a network willing to run the show. You can't publish a book without
a
> > publisher willing to buy the rights and then pay the writers and
> > produce the books. It is NOT a matter of showing up at the front
gate
> > of Warner Bros. with a sack full of money.
>
> Well, it would take a /lot/ of money -- a subsidy of a hundred million
> or so would allow WB to sell it at a price that a network could hardly
> refuse.
>
> Or I suppose you could approach (say) the Sci-Fi Channel and guarantee
> them a ripe commercial income up front, then try to sell the
commercial
> time yourself....
Or simply pay the Sci-Fi Channel to air the show (100% covering the
costs of their airtime) and then they can sell the commercial time
however they please and keep all that money as well. Where's the
downside for The Sci-Fi Channel? They make money no matter what, and
it's not like they're so chock full of good, high ratings programming
that they can't find a primetime slot or even a weekend slot for the
show.
> (Neither scheme would work, of course, if the show were a ratings
> stinker; but that doesn't really apply here.)
>
> As I have said many times before, I doubt that JMS is remotely
> interested in "finishing 'Crusade'" with novels. He didn't conceive
the
> story that way.
Not then (Sept. 2000), but now (May 2006), that's probably the only
avenue that's even remotely left.
09/10/2000:
http://www.jmsnews.com/msg.aspx?id=1-159
"No, no novels are planned, because I wanted Crusade to be a TV story,
and
again, WB owns the rights, which is standard for all TV series."
07/09/2002:
http://www.jmsnews.com/msg.aspx?id=1-16612
"Nope, nothing's on the boards, and I think Del Rey's license has either
expired
or is about to expire, so any other company could certainly come in and
make a
case for picking up the license."
01/28/2003:
http://www.jmsnews.com/msg.aspx?id=1-16760
"All that's required is for a publisher to make a deal with WB."
Sometimes it seems that a gazillion dollars are necessary to reduce
networks and studios risk to manageable levels and get them to finish
the story they started, and even then they have to be dragged kicking
and screaming to do it, and will hate themselves in the morning after
they've done it, no matter how big a profit they end up making. Ever
feel like almost the entire universe is against a project? That's where
Crusade is.
We have to be satisfied with that we have, because that's all we're ever
going to get that's canon.
Andrew Swallow
[snip]
>
> The galaxy is, after all, a big place and there is enough room for new
> stories and new points of view. . .
>
> Matthew Sprange
What date are the books coming out?
Andrew Swallow
Mark Alexander Bertenshaw
> Sigh. Nothing like a "reality check" from our resident expert Joseph
> DeMartino to put me into a depression tailspin. Reality sucks. No
> offense Joe. I remain in awe of your vast knowledge on subjects
> involving Babylon 5 and the entertainment industry.
>
> WB owns all rights to the future of Babylon 5 and Crusade. That's
> depressing all by itself!
Depressing? I wouldn't say that. Despite what you think, they are the
company who put up the money to make Babylon 5 and Crusade in the first
place!
--
Mark Bertenshaw
Kingston upon Thames
UK
Mark Alexander Bertenshaw
I've looked at your website, and you don't appear to have any information
about these books. Just the RPG and the ship combat game. Who's writing
the novels? Did the novel rights come with the game rights? And finally,
who gets to "vet" your products?
Thanks,
--
Mark Bertenshaw
Kingston upon Thames
UK
"Matthew Sprange" <sp...@mongoosepublishing.com> wrote in message
news:kfednZjBc7q...@bt.com...
Wesley Struebing
It was; Mox was just yanking your chain (in a humorous way...)
--
Wes Struebing
I pledge allegiance to the Constitution of the United States of America,
and to the republic which it established, one nation from many peoples,
promising liberty and justice for all.
Chris Patterson
"Mark Alexander Bertenshaw" <news...@mbertenshaw.plus.com> wrote:
> "Matthew Sprange" <sp...@mongoosepublishing.com> wrote in message
> news:kfednZjBc7q...@bt.com...
> >
> > Look out for the novels early next year. . .
> I've looked at your website, and you don't appear to have any information
> about these books. Just the RPG and the ship combat game. Who's writing
> the novels? Did the novel rights come with the game rights? And finally,
> who gets to "vet" your products?
FYI, folks, Matthew was interviewed about all this stuff in episode #13
of the Babylon Podcast:
http://www.babylonpodcast.com/
--
=====================================================================
Chris Patterson chrispatterson.at.comcast.dot.net
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are
always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts."
-- Bertrand Russell
=====================================================================
Michael Malloy
DOCTOR WHO came back to life after a very long break!
The Star Trek movies were eventually made...some goood, some not so
good...a several less successful new showsin the Star Trek universe
were created and were aired.
If DOCTOR WHO can do it, Crusade can do it. Of course, Crusade only
ran for 13 episodes and Doctor Who ran for about twenty five years.
Matthew Sprange
They will start in October - there will be information on our web site
towards the end of the month, for all the books and the authors.
Matthew Sprange
Mongoose Publishing
alex_t
> With the exception that the new stories are being done by people and a
> company who know the Babylon 5 universe intimately
There only one person who knows Babylon 5 universe "intimately" - JMS
himself.
With all due respect, I think these new stories will be fanfic in nice
cover. I highly doubt that, for example, Claudia Christian knows
something about her character that we don't know already from TV-series
(and this news group). As well as I remember JMS did not give actors
any information even about the future of the show itself, and
definitely not anything else besides it.
AC
"Chris Patterson" <chris_s_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:chris_s_patterson-9...@individual.net...
> In article <446a2990$0$97591$ed26...@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net>,
> "Mark Alexander Bertenshaw" <news...@mbertenshaw.plus.com> wrote:
>
>> "Matthew Sprange" <sp...@mongoosepublishing.com> wrote in message
>> news:kfednZjBc7q...@bt.com...
>> >
>> > Look out for the novels early next year. . .
>
>> I've looked at your website, and you don't appear to have any information
>> about these books. Just the RPG and the ship combat game. Who's writing
>> the novels? Did the novel rights come with the game rights? And
>> finally,
>> who gets to "vet" your products?
>
> FYI, folks, Matthew was interviewed about all this stuff in episode #13
> of the Babylon Podcast:
>
> http://www.babylonpodcast.com/
> --
Just heard the pod cast.
Crusade will continue as novels. In the absence of a TV show or movie, this
is fantastic news.
How come the NG isnt discussing this?
AC
Jan
It is. It did. See JMS's posts in the "ATTN JMS: Short Stories" thread. JMS
is not involved with the novels and they are not canon, basically just licensed
fanfic.
In addition, I'm hearing (I'm not able to access them myself) that Mr. Sprange
claimed in the podcast that the novels are being written from JMS outlines which
would seem to be an outright falsehood if that's what was claimed.
Matthew Sprange
> himself.
Well, that is plainly not true. . .
> With all due respect, I think these new stories will be fanfic in nice
> cover. I highly doubt that, for example, Claudia Christian knows
> something about her character that we don't know already from TV-series
You will be very, very surprised. . .
AC
"Jan" <janmsc...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:e4flm...@drn.newsguy.com...
Hmm, Im smelling a bit if a rat here. You and JMS seem to be suggesting that
this guy is out right lying, which I find a little unlikely. This guy seems
pretty confident of legitimacy and I dont see why he would lie so
publically. JMS's responses seem short and almost angry, leading me to think
there is more to this than meets the eye.
Anyway, Im sure the truth will attend to its self, eventually.
AC
Jan
I can only speak for myself and I only heard that outlines were mentioned on the
podcast this morning. It's been pointed out elsewhere that JMS might well have
given WB an outline of the high points of Crusade at the time the show was in
development and WB might have provided that to Mongoose.
As for JMS's attitude, have you seen this post of his from October of last year?
http://jmsnews.com/msg.aspx?id=1-17407&query=canon
Mr. Sprange is perfectly within his rights to claim legitimacy for the books
because there's no dispute at all that they are licensed by WB. What's
generally under discussion is their canonicity.
Chris Adams
>> There only one person who knows Babylon 5 universe "intimately" - JMS
>> himself.
>
>Well, that is plainly not true. . .
That IS plainly true. I think he's shared a good bit of it with the
other B5 producers (based on what JMS has written), but he is the only
expert.
>> With all due respect, I think these new stories will be fanfic in nice
>> cover. I highly doubt that, for example, Claudia Christian knows
>> something about her character that we don't know already from TV-series
>
>You will be very, very surprised. . .
Doubtful, since I won't buy more non-canon books (after the Dell 1-6 & 8
books). JMS has said these books are NOT canon in HIS universe;
claiming otherwise is just plain rude.
--
Chris Adams <cma...@hiwaay.net>
Systems and Network Administrator - HiWAAY Internet Services
I don't speak for anybody but myself - that's enough trouble.
Bill
>there is more to this than meets the eye.
JMS has good reason - well documented in earlier posts - to be angry
with Mongoose publishing. Basically, they apparently expected him to
work for free on further B5 novels and got rude with him when he asked
to be paid. I can't say I blame JMS.
Bill
Andrew Swallow
[snip]
>
> Anyway, Im sure the truth will attend to its self, eventually.
>
> AC
There are at least 3 parties to these negotiations - JMS, Warners and
Mongoose. Each of the sides may wish together together what they wrote
and what they have received in writing. What is said in writing and
what was said verbally can be very different. Notes on what was said,
by whom and when can be interesting.
I hope that JMS and Mongoose can find a way of burying the hatchet.
I am still wondering how Lyta survived the Telepath War and was she
involved in building the new hyperspace routes?
Andrew Swallow
Methuselah Jones
Chris Adams of rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated make plain:
> Once upon a time, Matthew Sprange <sp...@mongoosepublishing.com> said:
>>> There only one person who knows Babylon 5 universe "intimately" -
>>> JMS himself.
>>
>>Well, that is plainly not true. . .
>
> That IS plainly true. I think he's shared a good bit of it with the
> other B5 producers (based on what JMS has written), but he is the only
> expert.
>
>>> With all due respect, I think these new stories will be fanfic in
>>> nice cover. I highly doubt that, for example, Claudia Christian
>>> knows something about her character that we don't know already from
>>> TV-series
>>
>>You will be very, very surprised. . .
>
> Doubtful, since I won't buy more non-canon books
How about "You *would* be very, very surprised. . ." [if you were to read
them]
> (after the Dell 1-6 & 8 books). JMS has said these books are NOT canon
> in HIS universe; claiming otherwise is just plain rude.
And where, exactly, did he claim that? If you don't want to read the
books, I very much doubt anyone's going to force you to, but you don't
have to be nasty about it.
--
Methuselah
"The mole is a quantity of substance. The new prefix "guaca" is defined
such that one guacamole equals Avocado's Number."
-- G. Byrne
Amy Guskin
(in article <1147742766.2...@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>):
>> What would stop JMS from creating a "new" project IF a generous
> employer dropped out of the sky and hit him on the head? He could
> certainly come up with a series name not copyrighted by WB. Names of
> characters "could" be changed but their personalities certainly
> wouldn't be "owned" by WB. <
>
> It isn't a matter of names or titles. (Neither of which can be
> copyrighted, by the way.) JMS could no more do a continuation of
> "Crusade" with the serial numbers filed off than I could sell a show
> calld "The Y-Files" about an FBI Agent named Mox Fulder. <g> If there
> are enough similiarties to recognize it, there are enough to make it a
> violation of copyright. And the "Crusade" story itself is an extension
> of and sequel to "Babylon 5" - ALL derivative rights to these works
> (except for a theatrical film in the case of "B5") are owned by Warner
> Bros. Trust me, there are no loopholes. In addition to copyright,
> which eventually expires, certain things are also covered by trademark,
> which doesn't. ("U.S.S. Enterprise" and "Starship Enterprise" are
> both trademarked. No one else can use them in the context of a science
> fiction TV show or movies, or derivative works. The Babylon 5 station,
> the various logos, are all no doubt trademarked.) <<
Thanks, Joe. I was out of town until Monday night, then working the polls
all day yesterday(*), or I would certainly have attended to this. Detailed
and accurate as usual!
(*and we had a record-breaking closing of the polls - it took us two and a
half gosh-darned hours to close the damned polls, for a PRIMARY, because of
all the Republican write-ins! Write-ins have to be transcribed by hand to a
tally sheet (four copies, all originals), and if one person writes 'Joe
Smith' and another writes 'Joseph Smith,' we have to list them _separately_.
For some reason, many of the Republicans in our district took the opportunity
of the new optical-scan ballots to choose 'write-in,' and they'd write in
"None of the above," "Anyone else," and other clever, frivolous entries. But
at least the long day brought some good news: my senatorial district is
sending a Democrat to the state senate for the first time in memory!)
Amy
Jan
Jones says...
>
>And where, exactly, did he claim that? If you don't want to read the
>books, I very much doubt anyone's going to force you to, but you don't
>have to be nasty about it.
>
In his posts yesterday and today in the 'Short Stories' thread.
Methuselah Jones
of rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated make plain:
> In article <Xns97C6CE4554425me...@216.196.97.131>,
> Methuselah Jones says...
>>
>> Carved in mystic runes upon the very living rock, the last words of
>> Chris Adams of rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated make plain:
>>
>>> JMS has said these books are NOT canon in HIS universe; claiming
>>> otherwise is just plain rude.
>>
>>And where, exactly, did he claim that? If you don't want to read the
>>books, I very much doubt anyone's going to force you to, but you don't
>>have to be nasty about it.
>
> In his posts yesterday and today in the 'Short Stories' thread.
I meant, where did Matthew claim that they were canon. I know he's
falsely claimed or implied JMS involvement with them, but didn't see
anywhere he said they were canon.
--
Methuselah
My dog can lick anyone.
John W. Kennedy
A sad business, though, because it's clear that they DEEPLY CARE, and
just don't understand that they're -- well, remember what Judi Dench
said about method acting?
In their defense, I don't think they're trying to cheat JMS at all; they
Just Don't Get It, like the woman who couldn't understand why Dorothy L.
Sayers wouldn't make Lord Peter Wimsey a devoted Christian.
What really disturbs me most is that I've seen the RPG books, and
they're good enough, in a sort of way, and fun to read through, but none
of them seems to have passed through the hands of an editor literate in
English. Their prose does not descend into 133t, God knows, but at best
it is no better than the average newsgroup post.
--
John W. Kennedy
"The blind rulers of Logres
Nourished the land on a fallacy of rational virtue."
-- Charles Williams. "Taliessin through Logres: Prelude"
Mark Alexander Bertenshaw
> >
> >Just heard the pod cast.
> >
> >Crusade will continue as novels. In the absence of a TV show or movie,
this
> >is fantastic news.
> >
> >How come the NG isnt discussing this?
> >
> >AC
>
>
> It is. It did. See JMS's posts in the "ATTN JMS: Short Stories" thread.
JMS
> is not involved with the novels and they are not canon, basically just
licensed
> fanfic.
"Just licensed fanfic". What? You mean like all those "licensed fanfic"
authors like Peter David and Vonda N. McIntyre? I am going to give Mongoose
the benefit of the doubt on this one. This thing about canonicity isn't
really too important to me. What I want are decent stories set in the
Babylon 5 universe. Since it is unlikely that JMS is going to do any more
B5 related stuff in the near future, this is the next best thing.
Jan
Jones says...
>
>Carved in mystic runes upon the very living rock, the last words of Jan
>of rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated make plain:
>
>> In article <Xns97C6CE4554425me...@216.196.97.131>,
>> Methuselah Jones says...
>>>
>>> Carved in mystic runes upon the very living rock, the last words of
>>> Chris Adams of rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated make plain:
>>>
>>>> JMS has said these books are NOT canon in HIS universe; claiming
>>>> otherwise is just plain rude.
>>>
>>>And where, exactly, did he claim that? If you don't want to read the
>>>books, I very much doubt anyone's going to force you to, but you don't
>>>have to be nasty about it.
>>
>> In his posts yesterday and today in the 'Short Stories' thread.
>
>I meant, where did Matthew claim that they were canon. I know he's
>falsely claimed or implied JMS involvement with them, but didn't see
>anywhere he said they were canon.
>
I'd have to take time to look around and find it but Matthew Sprang did claim
that the novels would be canon. It was either when he was posting here or on
the UK newsgroup about trying to re-establish contact with JMS or else it was on
the Mongoose forums. But I did see him post that claim.
Amy Guskin
(in article <1147768232.9...@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com>):
> I promise, if I will ever win lottery - I will finance "Crusade". And
> then may be remake of "Babylon 5" (with story as originally intended -
> Sinclair as main guy for all 5 years). <<
No, you won't, because JMS has said that no one other than Richard Biggs will
ever play the role of Franklin, and that no one other than Andreas Katsulas
will ever play the role of G'Kar. It'd be pretty hard to remake Babylon 5
without G'Kar and Franklin.
Amy
Jan
>falsely claimed or implied JMS involvement with them, but didn't see
>anywhere he said they were canon.
>
Here's something that was reposted over on the JMSNews.com forums:
------------------------------
Some update about new B5 novels at Mongoose board
(http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/forum.php):
Quote:
Latest news.
1. All going well, there will be a special preview edition of the first Babylon
5 novel, Visions of Peace, available at the Babylon 5 Open Day. Numbers will be
_very_ limited, and this edition will not be reprinted (the cover will be
noticeably different from the general release).
2. All novels will be 100% canon.
3. The full range of novels will begin release in July/August - I am still
waiting to hear an exact date. The first month of release will see four novels,
the second month another two. I am waiting confirmation of releases beyond that
point.
4. I have already read part of Miss Christian's novel and I can now officially
call it 'Most Excellent'.
5. We have recently initiated talks with another Babylon 5 actor who has
expressed an interest in writing a new novel.
6. Work has started on tying up Crusade. . .
That is all for now. . .
_________________
Matthew Sprange
But this conserns a little:
Quote:
Nothing from Mr Straczynski. However, Warner Brothers have reaffirmed that
everything we produce is to be considered canon . . .
But its not a big deal for me. Not everything has to be JMS approved (afterall
B5 is fiction). If price is good i'm looking forward to novels, i hope CC knows
the B5 universe and knows how to write.
-------------------------------------------
Robert Lee
snip
> (*and we had a record-breaking closing of the polls - it took us two and a
> half gosh-darned hours to close the damned polls, for a PRIMARY, because of
> all the Republican write-ins! Write-ins have to be transcribed by hand to a
> tally sheet (four copies, all originals), and if one person writes 'Joe
> Smith' and another writes 'Joseph Smith,' we have to list them _separately_.
> For some reason, many of the Republicans in our district took the opportunity
> of the new optical-scan ballots to choose 'write-in,' and they'd write in
> "None of the above," "Anyone else," and other clever, frivolous entries. But
> at least the long day brought some good news: my senatorial district is
> sending a Democrat to the state senate for the first time in memory!)
>
> Amy
>
I saw in the paper that the Republicans in your state got spanked in the
election. Hopefully, it's a harbinger of things to come (or was it
mainly because of the monstrous pay raises they voted themselves?)
Bob Lee, (who still has a bodybuilder as a Governor :))
Amy Guskin
(in article <Ka2dnRPse8NrQ_bZ...@comcast.com>):
Yeah, it was a pretty good day for PA Democrats! :-)
Amy
jms...@aol.com
You said on your podcast that you had been given outlines from me
concerning the future of "Crusade." I have never given you any such
outlines, nor do any exist. If you have them, post them, or provide
the dates of them. If you cannot produce them, you owe both me and the
B5 fan community an apology.
You further said that my involvement in these novels was becoming
"less" with time, because I was "a busy chap." I have never had ANY
involvement with these novels. If you say I have, then produce any
memos or dates of conversations. You cannot, because they have not
taken place. You owe me and the B5 community an apology for
misrespresenting the facts in order to pretend to my involvement with
these books.
You cannot deny having said these things, because they are online for
anyone to listen to.
Do you really think that misrepresenting the facts to the fans who rely
on this information is a good way to represent B5?
jms
Thunder 06
> But its not a big deal for me. Not everything has to be JMS approved (afterall
> B5 is fiction)
In this case, I'm with JMS. It's his story ultimately and if he says
they're not canon, then they're not. They are, at best, officially
sanctioned fanfic.
t.k.
Mac Breck
news:Ka2dnRPse8NrQ_bZ...@comcast.com...
I thought the idea was for all incumbents who voted FOR the pay raise
(some raises as high as ~36~38%, IIRC), to get spanked, no matter the
party afiliation. And still Veon got re-elected! <rolleyes>
--
Mac Breck (KoshN)
-------------------------------
"Babylon 5: Crusade" (1999)
Galen: "There is always hope, only because it's the one thing that no
one has figured out how to kill yet."
(Galen's obviously never met Warner Brothers, TNT-Atlanta or Sci-Fi.)
"Brimstone" (1998)
[Stone lights a candle for the dead in a Catholic church]
Gina: Who's that for?
Ezekiel Stone: Me.
Mac Breck
news:86idnXgvcNY...@bt.com...
[....]
> I am still wondering how Lyta survived the Telepath War and was she
> involved in building the new hyperspace routes?
According to the Crusade Writers Bible, she didn't, but maybe that
changed after Pat didn't appear in Matheson's flashback in "The Path of
Sorrows."
Mac Breck
> In article <Xns97C6D501DBD4Dme...@216.196.97.131>,
Methuselah
> Jones says...
> >
> >I meant, where did Matthew claim that they were canon. I know he's
> >falsely claimed or implied JMS involvement with them, but didn't see
> >anywhere he said they were canon.
> >
>
> Here's something that was reposted over on the JMSNews.com forums:
>
> ------------------------------
> Some update about new B5 novels at Mongoose board
> (http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/forum.php):
>
> Quote:
> Latest news.
>
>
> 1. All going well, there will be a special preview edition of the
first Babylon
> 5 novel, Visions of Peace, available at the Babylon 5 Open Day.
Numbers will be
> _very_ limited, and this edition will not be reprinted (the cover will
be
> noticeably different from the general release).
>
> 2. All novels will be 100% canon.
Ouch! Conflicts with what he's said elsewhere.
> 3. The full range of novels will begin release in July/August - I am
still
> waiting to hear an exact date. The first month of release will see
four novels,
> the second month another two. I am waiting confirmation of releases
beyond that
> point.
>
> 4. I have already read part of Miss Christian's novel and I can now
officially
> call it 'Most Excellent'.
>
> 5. We have recently initiated talks with another Babylon 5 actor who
has
> expressed an interest in writing a new novel.
>
> 6. Work has started on tying up Crusade. . .
>
> That is all for now. . .
> _________________
> Matthew Sprange
>
>
> But this conserns a little:
>
> Quote:
> Nothing from Mr Straczynski. However, Warner Brothers have reaffirmed
that
> everything we produce is to be considered canon . . .
Sounds like they're *telling* Mongoose to make sure it's canon, i.e.
that they better be producing canon stuff, and that means getting it
vetted by JMS.
Jan
Thunder, I didn't say what you attributed to me. I most *definitely* insist
that everything B5 related be approved by JMS before I buy it.
Gregory Weston
Amy Guskin <ais...@fjordstone.com> wrote:
While I agree, certainly, that the loss of those characters and those
actors is staggering, I seem to remember the phrase "trap doors" being
used....
--
"Congurutulation!!!" - The subject line on some spam I received recently.
I have no idea what it means, but it's such a cool "word" (by which I mean
pronouncable sequence of letters) regardless.
Methuselah Jones
of rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated make plain:
> In article <Xns97C6D501DBD4Dme...@216.196.97.131>,
> Methuselah Jones says...
>>
>>I meant, where did Matthew claim that they were canon. I know he's
>>falsely claimed or implied JMS involvement with them, but didn't see
>>anywhere he said they were canon.
>
> Here's something that was reposted over on the JMSNews.com forums:
>
> ------------------------------
> Some update about new B5 novels at Mongoose board
> (http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/forum.php):
>
>
> 2. All novels will be 100% canon.
Fair enough.
I don't mind reading fanfic, if it's decent, and I might read Claudia's
book, but I certainly don't care for the way Matthew has mis-represented
things.
--
Methuselah
There are two types of people in the world: those who divide people into
two types, and those who don't.
Methuselah Jones
W. Kennedy of rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated make plain:
> Bill wrote:
>>> JMS's responses seem short and almost angry, leading me to think
>>> there is more to this than meets the eye.
>>
>> JMS has good reason - well documented in earlier posts - to be angry
>> with Mongoose publishing. Basically, they apparently expected him to
>> work for free on further B5 novels and got rude with him when he
>> asked to be paid. I can't say I blame JMS.
>
> A sad business, though, because it's clear that they DEEPLY CARE, and
> just don't understand that they're -- well, remember what Judi Dench
> said about method acting?
>
> In their defense, I don't think they're trying to cheat JMS at all;
> they Just Don't Get It, like the woman who couldn't understand why
> Dorothy L. Sayers wouldn't make Lord Peter Wimsey a devoted Christian.
>
> What really disturbs me most is that I've seen the RPG books, and
> they're good enough, in a sort of way, and fun to read through, but
> none of them seems to have passed through the hands of an editor
> literate in English. Their prose does not descend into 133t, God
> knows, but at best it is no better than the average newsgroup post.
Thank you, John. I've written and discarded several posts trying to say
exactly that. That's been my overall impression, as well.
(I think you're thinking of Judi Dench quoting Maggie Smith:
http://tinyurl.com/jwgfk)
--
Methuselah
"If we don’t believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we
don’t believe in it at all"
-- Chomsky
Amy Guskin
(in article <446c144b$0$3706$ecde...@news.coretel.net>):
> "Jan" <janmsc...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:e4gms...@drn.newsguy.com...
> (but it isn't Jan's quote - it's someone else's):
>>
>> Quote:
>> Nothing from Mr Straczynski. However, Warner Brothers have reaffirmed
> that
>> everything we produce is to be considered canon . . .
>
> Sounds like they're *telling* Mongoose to make sure it's canon, i.e.
> that they better be producing canon stuff, and that means getting it
> vetted by JMS. <<
Honestly, I don't think Warner knows from canon, non-canon, or cannon fodder.
Or _cares_. That's a highly specific artistic concern which would normally
not be in the purview of the administrative people who are handing out the
licenses to novelists, producers of action figures, or games makers. It's
something only the creator(s) can decide. I'd bet that the stamp of "canon"
generally only gets into contracts for ongoing fictionally-created universes
after the creative person in question signs off on it - not the
bean-counters/lawyers/acquisition managers.
What's going on with ABC's supplemental "Lost" materials is vaguely relevant
to this discussion. On their site, ABC has a castaway's diary - a nameless
person who we don't see in the episodes on television - and they've been
claiming it's canon. But recently in an interview, one of the producers
(can't remember if it was Abrams, Cuse, or Lindelof) has said that it may
have started out that way, but it's "gone off the rails" now, and that no one
was checking information with the production team anymore, so they've
withdrawn their "canon stamp of approval" from the thing, and so now it's
just a fun supplement to the show, pretending to be in the show's universe.
So, whose word do you take on this? ABC, the big corporation who funds the
show and airs it? Or the people who created, and are still writing and
producing it?
What I'm guessing is that Warner licensed this company (Mongoose) to produce
and distribute some novels, and in correspondence assured them that their
novels would indeed be official B5 licensed product, and that somewhere along
the line someone's gotten "official" confused with "canon," which are two
very different things indeed. Something that's an official, licensed product
isn't necessarily canon. And if I'm wrong, and they were indeed promised
"canonicity" in their contracts as a consequence of fulfilling certain
conditions - for instance, sending outlines to JMS and/or Warner for review -
and haven't done so, then the non-fulfillment of those terms would
effectively void any stamp of canonicity, too.
Amy
AC
Just recieved a reply from Mr Sprange. All I will say is that he seems
genuinly (sp?) upset by Joe's reaction and he seems to really care about B5,
like the rest of us. I've also seen Joe's recent post, which actually makes
no sense to me, baring in mind what Mr Sparnge has just written to me. I
would post the reply I got , but I dont feel I have permission.
I think Joe needs to to be a little more candid here. For me, there is
something in between what Joe and Mr Sprange is saying. I like to know what
it is.
I cant help feeling that had a way of continuing the Crusade arc been found,
years ago, we wouldnt be in the middle of this. If Joe cares about the story
and his fans, perhaps he should do something that addresses Crusade, before
others do.
AC
Jan
>
>
>Just recieved a reply from Mr Sprange. All I will say is that he seems
>genuinly (sp?) upset by Joe's reaction and he seems to really care about B5,
>like the rest of us. I've also seen Joe's recent post, which actually makes
>no sense to me, baring in mind what Mr Sparnge has just written to me. I
>would post the reply I got , but I dont feel I have permission.
I've never had the impression that Mr. Sprange has any but good intentions
toward the B5 universe and that he and the writers want to do a good job.
>I think Joe needs to to be a little more candid here. For me, there is
>something in between what Joe and Mr Sprange is saying. I like to know what
>it is.
I think it's gone entirely far enough, or too far, in public. They'll either
work it out or they won't but none of their correspondence or negotiations has
ever been any of our business in the first place.
>I cant help feeling that had a way of continuing the Crusade arc been found,
>years ago, we wouldnt be in the middle of this. If Joe cares about the story
>and his fans, perhaps he should do something that addresses Crusade, before
>others do.
You seem to be implying that, regardless of how Mongoose approached JMS or what
they offered him that JMS should have bent over backwards to help? I completely
disagree. If that's not what you're implying, then what do you suggest he do?
Joseph DeMartino
changed after Pat didn't appear in Matheson's flashback in "The Path of
Sorrows." -- Mac Breck (KoshN) <
Possible, but not likely. G'Kar's comment about his traveling
companion in his recent wanderings ("She's gone, now.") suggest that
Lyta still dies at around the same time. And Bester's musings in The
Psi Corps trilogy also support the idea that he survived the war but
that she didn't.
So if Mongoose has a novel that says otherwise - well, they obviously
don't understand the meaning of "canon" in this context, and who
exactly it is that determines what does and does not qualify. (Hint:
Nobody at Warner Bros. is even a *candidate*. <g>)
Regards,
Joe
Charlie Edmondson
> In article <oK%ag.4$bY...@newsfe5-gui.ntli.net>, AC says...
>
>>
>>Just recieved a reply from Mr Sprange. All I will say is that he seems
>>genuinly (sp?) upset by Joe's reaction and he seems to really care about B5,
>>like the rest of us. I've also seen Joe's recent post, which actually makes
>>no sense to me, baring in mind what Mr Sparnge has just written to me. I
>>would post the reply I got , but I dont feel I have permission.
>
>
> I've never had the impression that Mr. Sprange has any but good intentions
> toward the B5 universe and that he and the writers want to do a good job.
>
>
>
>>I think Joe needs to to be a little more candid here. For me, there is
>>something in between what Joe and Mr Sprange is saying. I like to know what
>>it is.
>
>
> I think it's gone entirely far enough, or too far, in public. They'll either
> work it out or they won't but none of their correspondence or negotiations has
> ever been any of our business in the first place.
>
>
>
>>I cant help feeling that had a way of continuing the Crusade arc been found,
>>years ago, we wouldnt be in the middle of this. If Joe cares about the story
>>and his fans, perhaps he should do something that addresses Crusade, before
>>others do.
>
>
> You seem to be implying that, regardless of how Mongoose approached JMS or what
> they offered him that JMS should have bent over backwards to help? I completely
> disagree. If that's not what you're implying, then what do you suggest he do?
>
> Jan
>
>
and most players, are in it for the big bucks (and they are pretty big)
there are of course, others out there doing free or almost free software
to do the same thing. There are two, in particular, that have made
notable efforts.
One of them works for a major company, and for him, the simulator is the
key part of the puzzle. He has a very, very good simulator, is
supported by his big company, and has been very responsive to user
requests. Our own software could learn a thing or two from his. But,
he has one major deficiency - his front end is difficult and
non-standard, which makes using it professionally a problem.
The other individual is the opposite. While he has made a few
improvements to his simulation engine, it is in his front end that he
has made many improvements. His software is easy to use, intuitive, and
very productive. But, his back end is only mediocre, with the usual
bugs and deficiencies of open source software. He is also just a single
individual, and has no other corporate backing for his software.
Now, if these two folks should get together, there would be a real
competitor in the marketplace, with a great front end tied to an
excellent simulation engine, but fortunately for me and my livelihood,
they hate each other! Seems when each of them first began publishing
their early efforts, they both delighted in taking pot-shots at each
other, mainly in the Usenet newsgroups I frequent. By the time the dust
began clearing, and each has started to achieve worthwhile results, the
well had been poisoned - they will never work together. At best, they
have recently become somewhat civil towards one another...
So, we have a very similiar situation here. Joe is a professional, and
while he enjoys being recognized as an 'Artiste' and having created
'Art', he and his spousal overunit are much more gratified by those nice
dollars that have rolled through his bank accounts while doing so! He
also has a vision of this B5 universe that is unique, since he created
it, and is somewhat possessive of it. Matthew has come into this
inspirational playground with a lot of enthusiasm, and maybe a few
bucks, but may or may not have a good understanding of it. When he
initially approached Joe, it is apparent they were not on the same page.
It sounds like Matthew was approaching Joe the Artist, and had
evidently not done his homework on Joe the businessman! If he had read
Joe's book on screenwriting, he would have had a much better
appreciation of where Joe's head is at.
So, where does that leave us, the fans? Screwed as usual, with the guy
that has the bucks and license separated from the guy with the knowledge
and vision.
I mean, even if he had tried to negotiate a creative consultant credit,
like Joe did with Ellison, we would at least have been able to get a
little guidance on how Mongoose will take B5. What I suspect is that we
will get a Star Trek type of business, with writers taking B5 in a
hundred different, competing directions, i.e. a lot more Del Rey novels...
Charlie
Thunder 06
> Thunder, I didn't say what you attributed to me. I most *definitely* insist
> that everything B5 related be approved by JMS before I buy it.
>
Oh, sorry. I guess I mis-read it...
t.k.
Iva
<snippage hath occurred>
> So, we have a very similiar situation here. Joe is a professional, and
> while he enjoys being recognized as an 'Artiste' and having created
> 'Art', he and his spousal overunit are much more gratified by those nice
> dollars that have rolled through his bank accounts while doing so! He
> also has a vision of this B5 universe that is unique, since he created
> it, and is somewhat possessive of it. Matthew has come into this
> inspirational playground with a lot of enthusiasm, and maybe a few
> bucks, but may or may not have a good understanding of it. When he
> initially approached Joe, it is apparent they were not on the same page.
> It sounds like Matthew was approaching Joe the Artist, and had
> evidently not done his homework on Joe the businessman! If he had read
> Joe's book on screenwriting, he would have had a much better
> appreciation of where Joe's head is at.
Erm, do *you* work for free? Why shouldn't Joe (and/or his spouse) enjoy
the benefits of his own hard work? I mean, how the heck do *you* know that
he was more gratified by the $$ he received than by actually creating his
own universe?
---
Iva
Charlie Edmondson
Hi Iva,
Have you read the Complete Guide to Scriptwriting? I sure have, and you
will see that Joe is motivated by BOTH the art and the money, as any
sensible sentient would be. Approach him from either of these
standpoints alone, and you have a very hard sell. Combine them in
reasonable amounts, and you get a willing writer! However, negotiating
in the newsgroups basically means that all direct channels have failed,
and a complete break has occurred. Such breaks can be repaired, but I
suspect that it would take something on the order of Matthew begging Joe
to help, while offering substantial monetary compensation, to do so!
Charlie
Raven Woman
> election. Hopefully, it's a harbinger of things to come (or was it
> mainly because of the monstrous pay raises they voted themselves?)
>
> Bob Lee, (who still has a bodybuilder as a Governor :))
>
It's the pay raises. One local Dem incumbant survived them (Central PA
here) but I'm thinking that both parties will suffer for that in the general
elections. There's a new "throw the bastards out" party running a guy for
governor -- what's his name, Amy?
Jenn
Raven Woman
> (some raises as high as ~36~38%, IIRC), to get spanked, no matter the
> party afiliation. And still Veon got re-elected! <rolleyes>
>
> --
> Mac Breck (KoshN)
It was pretty shameful. Worst of all, I thought, were some judges who
decided they were going to call the measure *revoking* the pay raises
unconstitutional . . . mostly, I suppose, because it was taking *their* pay
raises back as well.
Jenn
alex_t
My idea actually was "Babylon 5" with all new actors, new characters,
but same story (as originally intended). Since (and it's a sad fact)
most B5 actors are too old for their original roles anyway (plus some
are gone forever)...
Another thing that can be done is some kind of "Babylon 5: The Really
Complete Universe" with all CGI recreated (in widescreen aspect). Plus
a lot of extras, like discussion of every single episode, complete gag
reels (I wonder why current DVDs have only smart part of what available
in P2P networks?). Also a terrific potential extra could be: taking
some unused footage from the series and adding it as second angle in
DVDs (imagine watching "Divided Loyalties" and being able to switch
between views of Talia and Ivanova while they talk - and I'm quite sure
that in most cases they filmed with several cameras, so different
angles can be found).
Amy Guskin
(in article <Ww3bg.174612$WI1.1027@pd7tw2no>):
No, you _read_ it right; you just attributed it incorrectly. It was a bit
confusing because Jan was quoting information she'd read on the jmsnews.com
forums, but it was two different quotes - one from Matthew Sprange; one from
someone else reading his quote and responding to it. So when the first quote
(Sprange's) ended, it sort of looked like what was below that line (the bit
that started "But this conserns a little") might have been Jan's response to
the quote. You'd need to know Jan better to know that she would never have
said that in a million years!
Amy
Michael Malloy
"I promise, if I will ever win lottery - I will finance "Crusade". And
> then may be remake of "Babylon 5"..."
Amy Guskin wrote:
"No, you won't, because JMS has said that no one other than Richard
Biggs will
ever play the role of Franklin, and that no one other than Andreas
Katsulas
will ever play the role of G'Kar. It'd be pretty hard to remake
Babylon 5
without G'Kar and Franklin. "
ZING! Great shot, Amy! It is vital to respect the beloved memory of
those frequent guests in our homes.
Amy brings up an important continuity issue for Crusade: Dr. Franklin
made an important appearance in the final completed episode. Continuing
the story without another appearance by Dr. Franklin would be odd at
best.
We all know a cure for the Drakh plague was found. We all know, as in
B5, there is a completely different deeper story in Crusade. That is
the story I want to experience and I'd most like to do it with the
original Crusade characters/actors.
Amy Guskin
(in article <e4in8o$1fka$2...@f04n12.cac.psu.edu>):
Dunno. I was too busy worrying about Casey's nomination - my vote went to
Pennachio.
Amy
Raven Woman
Is there a legal definition of canonicity, anyhow?
I thought that it was, like, well, calling something "wholesome" in food
advertising.
Jenn
Amy Guskin
(in article <e4io1k$1gsu$2...@f04n12.cac.psu.edu>):
As far as I know, it just means "the fact of being canonical." Whether it's
a legal definition or not depends upon what's in any given contract. And
contract terms are dictated by the parties to any particular contract.
So if, say, you were writing a series of novels that you expected to really
catch on, and become films, and tv shows, and action figures, and its
popularity would be so huge and all-encompassing that you expected this
particular universe to live on beyond your own willingness to keep creating,
you might propose a clause in your contract that says that in connection with
the creation of derivative works using your copyrighted and trademarked
materials, you, and only you (or your successor-in-interest in the case of
your death), will have final say on what is to be considered canonical, and
what is merely licensed product.
(Then the suits laugh at you and hand you their boilerplate contract to sign.
:-) )
I don't know that anybody actually _has_ such a term in any contract; but if
you're going by commonly held wisdom rather than legalities, it makes sense
that only JMS can tell us what's canon and what's not, because it's _his_
universe. It's like if George Lucas said that a particular line of books was
canon or not, or the Rodenberry estate. It wouldn't really matter what the
publisher/manfacturer in question might have said that disputes that notion;
fans of the franchise are generally going to look to the creator for the
final word on such a matter. Because no matter what rights they've sold or
given away, it's _their universe_. And fans generally respect that without
question.
Amy
Jan
says...
Aw, Amy,you told! <g> Sorry I didn't explain further, Thunder. The quote I
pasted in was already a cut and paste as Amy said which made it hard to read.
I'd've gone to the Mongoose site to try to find it except that they have a lot
of long threads about the novels and I was posting from work. Sorry if I seemed
curt.
Mac Breck
news:1147969071.0...@38g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Alex T. wrote:
>
> "I promise, if I will ever win lottery - I will finance "Crusade". And
> > then may be remake of "Babylon 5"..."
>
> Amy Guskin wrote:
>
> "No, you won't, because JMS has said that no one other than Richard
> Biggs will
> ever play the role of Franklin, and that no one other than Andreas
> Katsulas
> will ever play the role of G'Kar. It'd be pretty hard to remake
> Babylon 5
> without G'Kar and Franklin. "
>
> ZING! Great shot, Amy! It is vital to respect the beloved memory of
> those frequent guests in our homes.
>
> Amy brings up an important continuity issue for Crusade: Dr. Franklin
> made an important appearance in the final completed episode.
Continuing
> the story without another appearance by Dr. Franklin would be odd at
> best.
It would be *necessary*. Dr. Franklin would have to be written around.
Who knows how often JMS would have used him in Crusade if all had gone
as planned. I have a feeling that most B5 characters wouldn't have
shown up very much on Crusade, and that Lochley would have been the one
to show up on Crusade most often.
> We all know a cure for the Drakh plague was found. We all know, as in
> B5, there is a completely different deeper story in Crusade. That is
> the story I want to experience and I'd most like to do it with the
> original Crusade characters/actors.
So would I. That's one of the reasons I'd like to see "The Passing of
the Technomages" filmed, because it gets into the Shadow/Technomage
connection which is part of the different, deeper story that would have
been part of Crusade, though from more of a foreshadowing POV ("The
Passing of the Technomages" - 2258-2261; Crusade - 2267-2271).
Kay Shapero
says...
The way I've always understood it, "canon" just means "events in this
novel (or whatever) must be taken into account in any future novels
(whatever) set in this mileau." The term, of course, has its roots in
religious terminology as to what is or is not a part of the accepted
dogma.
--
Kay Shapero
http://www.kayshapero.net
Mac Breck
news:0001HW.C091E67B...@news.verizon.net...
> >>On Thu, 18 May 2006 02:31:37 -0400, Mac Breck wrote
> (in article <446c144b$0$3706$ecde...@news.coretel.net>):
>
> > "Jan" <janmsc...@aol.com> wrote in message
> > news:e4gms...@drn.newsguy.com...
> > (but it isn't Jan's quote - it's someone else's):
> >>
> >> Quote:
> >> Nothing from Mr Straczynski. However, Warner Brothers have
reaffirmed
> > that
> >> everything we produce is to be considered canon . . .
> >
> > Sounds like they're *telling* Mongoose to make sure it's canon, i.e.
> > that they better be producing canon stuff, and that means getting it
> > vetted by JMS. <<
>
> Honestly, I don't think Warner knows from canon, non-canon, or cannon
fodder.
Is *is* possible for Warner Brothers to be 100% ignorant of what's
canon, and still be telling Mongoose to produce canon novels, so as not
to diminish the value of the B5 universe through the publishing of more
novels like Dell 1 thru 6 & 8. It's just that somebody other than
Warner Brothers would have to be vetting the novels, and that somebody
would have to be JMS.
> Or _cares_.
Oh, they probably care if non-canon products come out and reduce the
value of their property (B5). That could affect what they could get for
future licenses.
> That's a highly specific artistic concern which would normally
> not be in the purview of the administrative people who are handing out
the
> licenses to novelists, producers of action figures, or games makers.
And that's where JMS should come in.
> It's
> something only the creator(s) can decide. I'd bet that the stamp of
"canon"
> generally only gets into contracts for ongoing fictionally-created
universes
> after the creative person in question signs off on it - not the
> bean-counters/lawyers/acquisition managers.
It could be standard wording so as not to diminish the value of the
studio's fictional universe.
> What's going on with ABC's supplemental "Lost" materials is vaguely
relevant
> to this discussion. On their site, ABC has a castaway's diary - a
nameless
> person who we don't see in the episodes on television - and they've
been
> claiming it's canon. But recently in an interview, one of the
producers
> (can't remember if it was Abrams, Cuse, or Lindelof) has said that it
may
> have started out that way, but it's "gone off the rails" now, and that
no one
> was checking information with the production team anymore, so they've
> withdrawn their "canon stamp of approval" from the thing, and so now
it's
> just a fun supplement to the show, pretending to be in the show's
universe.
> So, whose word do you take on this? ABC, the big corporation who
funds the
> show and airs it? Or the people who created, and are still writing
and
> producing it?
The people who created, and are still writing and producing it.
> What I'm guessing is that Warner licensed this company (Mongoose) to
produce
> and distribute some novels, and in correspondence assured them that
their
> novels would indeed be official B5 licensed product, and that
somewhere along
> the line someone's gotten "official" confused with "canon,"
Possible, I guess. Dumber things have happened.
> which are two very different things indeed. Something that's an
> official, licensed product isn't necessarily canon.
True, but if that's the case, it sounds like Warner Brothers doesn't
care all that much about the B5 universe, and only cared about making
what little money they still could off of it.
> And if I'm wrong, and they were indeed promised
> "canonicity" in their contracts as a consequence of fulfilling certain
> conditions - for instance, sending outlines to JMS and/or Warner for
review -
> and haven't done so, then the non-fulfillment of those terms would
> effectively void any stamp of canonicity, too.
To me, it sounded like a directive from Warner Brothers to Mongoose to
produce canon novels, not that whatever they produce will be considered
new canon in the B5 universe.
Charlie Edmondson
Replying to self: 8-)
So, Matthew is trying apologies and begging, and offering at least some
compensation! It will be up to Joe if he has time and tolerance for
this effort...
Charlie
Chris Adams
>Amy brings up an important continuity issue for Crusade: Dr. Franklin
>made an important appearance in the final completed episode. Continuing
>the story without another appearance by Dr. Franklin would be odd at
>best.
Obviously, nobody but JMS knows. However, I wouldn't see Dr. Franklin
as a major character in Crusade (at least the little bit of Crusade we
know). As you say, we know the Drakh plague was not to be the major
story, and that a cure was to be found relatively quickly. At that
point, the original basis for involving Dr. Franklin is gone.
Now, it is possible that other events would have involved him as well,
but it is hard to say his absence would be missed (because sadly, we'll
never know how it would have been).
--
Chris Adams <cma...@hiwaay.net>
Systems and Network Administrator - HiWAAY Internet Services
I don't speak for anybody but myself - that's enough trouble.
Charlie Edmondson
Replying to self, again... a very bad habit (But, it looked fine on
Sally Field... 8-) )
Actually, is part of the problem that Matthew is approaching Joe
DIRECTLY? He does have an agent!
Charlie
Mac Breck
news:1147973759....@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> > According to the Crusade Writers Bible, she didn't, but maybe that
> changed after Pat didn't appear in Matheson's flashback in "The Path
of
>
> Sorrows." -- Mac Breck (KoshN) <
>
> Possible, but not likely. G'Kar's comment about his traveling
> companion in his recent wanderings ("She's gone, now.") suggest that
> Lyta still dies at around the same time.
Ah, you're right. Forgot about that.
> And Bester's musings in The Psi Corps trilogy also support the
> idea that he survived the war but that she didn't.
True, but G'Kar carries more weight with me.
> So if Mongoose has a novel that says otherwise - well, they obviously
> don't understand the meaning of "canon" in this context, and who
> exactly it is that determines what does and does not qualify. (Hint:
> Nobody at Warner Bros. is even a *candidate*. <g>)
True.
Chris
Amy Guskin <ais...@fjordstone.com> wrote:
> Yeah, it was a pretty good day for PA Democrats! :-)
really? seems like a proud day for the republicans, the republican
voters took a stand against the members of their party that had
corrupted it, while the democrat voters didn't do much to punish their
incumbents who voted for the pay raise. 11 democrat state senators, and
58 democrat state representatives voted for the pay raise, and 1
democrat governor signed it into law, how did they fare in their
primaries(all members of the house are up for election, half the senate
is, as is the governorship)? so i ask, if both sides make a mess, that
everyone acknowledges was a mess(the quick repeal by unanimous vote, so
there's no debate over whether or not this is a mess.), but only one
side makes an effort to clean up by punishing those who made the mess,
then why should the other side consider it a good day or a proud day? i
call that a shameful day.
and another thing, according to everything i see, the incumbents that
lost their party's nomination were all in heavily republican areas, and
lost to "more conservative" republicans, iow, people who are more likely
to disagree with the Dems and still likely to actually win the seats in
the general election, that can't be a good thing for the dems trying to
get their policies through.
http://www.pacleansweep.com/main.html
...Chris, i may be gone, but i still have family there, and still care.
Mark Alexander Bertenshaw
"Amy Guskin" <ais...@fjordstone.com> wrote in message
news:0001HW.C0926623...@news.verizon.net...
> >> On Thu, 18 May 2006 17:13:37 -0400, Raven Woman wrote
> (in article <e4io1k$1gsu$2...@f04n12.cac.psu.edu>):
>
>
> I don't know that anybody actually _has_ such a term in any contract; but
if
> you're going by commonly held wisdom rather than legalities, it makes
sense
> that only JMS can tell us what's canon and what's not, because it's _his_
> universe. It's like if George Lucas said that a particular line of books
was
> canon or not, or the Rodenberry estate. It wouldn't really matter what
the
> publisher/manfacturer in question might have said that disputes that
notion;
> fans of the franchise are generally going to look to the creator for the
> final word on such a matter. Because no matter what rights they've sold
or
> given away, it's _their universe_. And fans generally respect that
without
> question.
>
> Amy
Amy - just one word:
Episode One
:-)
--
Mark Bertenshaw
Kingston upon Thames
UK
Andrew Swallow
>> According to the Crusade Writers Bible, she didn't, but maybe that
> changed after Pat didn't appear in Matheson's flashback in "The Path of
>
> Sorrows." -- Mac Breck (KoshN) <
>
> Possible, but not likely. G'Kar's comment about his traveling
> companion in his recent wanderings ("She's gone, now.") suggest that
> Lyta still dies at around the same time. And Bester's musings in The
> Psi Corps trilogy also support the idea that he survived the war but
> that she didn't.
>
If Lyta is still alive she has *gone* into hiding. As show by the
assassination attempts on Sheridan, war leaders make a lot of enemies.
> So if Mongoose has a novel that says otherwise - well, they obviously
> don't understand the meaning of "canon" in this context, and who
> exactly it is that determines what does and does not qualify. (Hint:
> Nobody at Warner Bros. is even a *candidate*. <g>)
Suspicion that Lyta is still alive came from me, not from anything
Mongoose or JMS has published. YET.
Andrew Swallow
Wesley Struebing
<news...@mbertenshaw.plus.com> wrote:
>UK
>> >
>> >Just heard the pod cast.
>> >
>> >Crusade will continue as novels. In the absence of a TV show or movie,
>this
>> >is fantastic news.
>> >
>> >How come the NG isnt discussing this?
>> >
>> >AC
>>
>>
>> It is. It did. See JMS's posts in the "ATTN JMS: Short Stories" thread.
>JMS
>> is not involved with the novels and they are not canon, basically just
>licensed
>> fanfic.
>
>"Just licensed fanfic". What? You mean like all those "licensed fanfic"
>authors like Peter David and Vonda N. McIntyre? I am going to give Mongoose
>the benefit of the doubt on this one. This thing about canonicity isn't
>really too important to me. What I want are decent stories set in the
>Babylon 5 universe. Since it is unlikely that JMS is going to do any more
>B5 related stuff in the near future, this is the next best thing.
While they could be "good reads" I respectfully disagree that they
might be "the next best thing. to canon.
--
Wes Struebing
I pledge allegiance to the Constitution of the United States of America,
and to the republic which it established, one nation from many peoples,
promising liberty and justice for all.
Jon Schild
If the guy is lying about Joe's participation, then he is lying. End of
discussion. How enthusiastic he is, how much he likes B5, now creative
he is, all that crap, are absolutely meaningless if he thinks he has a
right to lie about creative participation from someone who has not in
fact participated. That is nothing but an attempt to fradulently entice
B5 fans to buy something that they might not buy on its own merits.
And I expect that JMS will find it more than a little insulting that you
imply he cares more about the money than anything else. I know I
certainly would, if I was in his position.
Jon Schild
OR, that he never tried any of the others in any meaningful way,
deciding to just go with "he made the outlines for me" even though he
knows it is a lie
matthe...@gmail.com
know some of you have been scorn over and over again my the B5
universe. I honestly doubt that JMS will ever take up babylon 5
unvierse again, but that doesn't mean fine people at mongoose will do a
bad job, i mean it can't be worse than LotR.
Be postive lets see what mongoose does if its good then hey to never
know you might see babylon 5 rather than just reading about it.
Thunder 06
>I mean I
> know some of you have been scorn over and over again my the B5
> universe.
Not sure what you mean here...
>I honestly doubt that JMS will ever take up babylon 5
> unvierse again, but that doesn't mean fine people at mongoose will do a
> bad job, i mean it can't be worse than LotR.
I think the issue here is that JMS doesn't approve of these novels and
so a lot of fans don't either. Whether they're well written or not isn't
the problem...
I'm sure JMS would do more B5 if they wanted him to and would actually
let him do the show the way he wants to, rather then screwing with it,
like they did with Crusade.
t.k.
Thunder 06
> Amy - just one word:
>
> Episode One
>
> :-)
>
People may not like it, but it *is* Lucas' vision of how things happened.
t.k.
Mac Breck
news:f3ebg.174706$P01.96693@pd7tw3no...
> matthe...@gmail.com wrote:
[....]
> I'm sure JMS would do more B5 if they wanted him to and would actually
> let him do the show the way he wants to, rather then screwing with it,
> like they did with Crusade.
No, B5 is done, unless you mean a feature film (like a Telepath War
movie). Crusade is a different story though, one set in the B5 universe
that every so often intersects with B5 station.
Mac Breck
news:1147795644.9...@y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
[....]
> .... i mean it can't be worse than LotR.
Never tempt fate by saying stuff like that.
Methuselah Jones
Breck of rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated make plain:
> "Thunder 06" <dece...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
> news:f3ebg.174706$P01.96693@pd7tw3no...
>> matthe...@gmail.com wrote:
> [....]
>> I'm sure JMS would do more B5 if they wanted him to and would
>> actually let him do the show the way he wants to, rather then
>> screwing with it, like they did with Crusade.
>
> No, B5 is done, unless you mean a feature film (like a Telepath War
> movie). Crusade is a different story though, one set in the B5
> universe that every so often intersects with B5 station.
How about, "...more B5 universe...."
--
Methuselah
"Progress in science is something like climbing a mountain. Only most
mountaineers don't set up a new basecamp every ten feet, then leap out
and attack anyone who tries to climb past them."
-- Bill Beaty
Wendy of NJ
wrote:
I didn't get that from what Charlie said. He said that money is part
of the equation.
I did a concert last October - and the person running the venue (it
was a "music festival" with 5 or 6 acts) was crying poverty to me
during the initial negotiations. Since the concert coincided with my
latest CD release, I came up with the notion that this would also
double as my "CD Release party"... so I wound up spending about 500
dollars to pay my band and rehersal space and rent lights and such,
and I got comped about 250 dollars worth of tickets.
I found out at the gig that all the other acts were getting paid in
cash. I was a little miffed about it, but I realize it was my own
fault in my negotiations with the venue that I couldn't manage to at
least break even on the gig.
People should not have to work for free. End of story.
-Wendy
krueg...@hotmail.com
B5 anything without at least consultation from JMS is simply not B5 in
my mind.
It's fan fiction. So call it that. "Title... a collection of Babylon
5 fan ficiton short stories".
Just be up-front and honest about it.