Note From jms
TOGA
>The welcome mat is out, the porch light is on, and there's lemonade over
>by the front rail. I hope you'll all sit for a while and hang out. Looks
>like it's gonna be a nice night....
>jms
Can't wait until the fireflies come out........
And glad to have you back.
TOGA
It's a hundred and six miles to Chicago, we've got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses.
Hit it.
(Dan Ackroyd/John Belushi, "The Blues Brothers")
ri...@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu
Jms at B5 <jms...@aol.com> wrote:
>That said, however, I leave these determinations to the moderators,
>suggesting only that a light hand is better than a heavy hand. If along
>the way some of my messages get blipped as we feel our way through this, I
>don't have a problem with that. (This to those who said it would be a
>problem.)
My personal translation of this: "Dammit, there's still gonna be 9
gazillion posts per day I'll have to wade through!" :)
>The welcome mat is out, the porch light is on, and there's lemonade over
>by the front rail. I hope you'll all sit for a while and hang out. Looks
>like it's gonna be a nice night....
>jms
Well, I was one of those who left a long time ago. It's great to be
back, and it's even better to have you back.
I wonder if a lot of people will unsubscribe to jms-speaks mailing list
now that they no longer need it?
--
Jimmy Rimmer Rimbo / Lucid http://ccwf.cc.utexas.edu/~rimbo/
* "If you hide your ignorance, nobody will hit you and you'll never learn." *
* [from Fahrenheit 451] *
Jms at B5
Jay Denebeim
finding the new software easier to deal with than the e-mail.
Here's a few statistics about the system:
The newgroup was sent out at 10:35 EST April 2nd. Since that time
there have been 223 messages approved. Since the software went
on-line last week 198 people have attempted to register and 46 have
suceeded in becoming automoderated. (there have been some problems
with this, I'm working on it and will post my results this evening)
The delay inserted by moderation (assuming the person automodded) is
under one minute. That is calculated from the time a message leaves
here as e-mail to uunet to solon.com to here for moderation to uunet
as news.
So, at this point, it appears reality is on the side of the pro-mod
group. The technical naysaying we heard about in the newsgroup has
not as of yet materialized. (now, bugs we got, I stomped a few last
night and will stomp some more tonight)
Jay
--
Jay Denebeim dene...@deepthot.cary.nc.us
duke.edu!wolves!deepthot!denebeim
Fuck censorship! Oh *shit* there goes another 100, er $200,000
be...@cais2.cais.com
: In article <4jves4$7...@piglet.cc.utexas.edu>,
: <ri...@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu> wrote:
: >My personal translation of this: "Dammit, there's still gonna be 9
: >gazillion posts per day I'll have to wade through!" :)
: Sorry, yeah, that's been the intent all along. Now, the good thing is
: that since we're automoderating, it should be possible to put keywords
: on the posts for people to select what they're interested in.
: Anyone interested in something like that? How would you like it to
: work?
I personally don't have a problem with changes to my post titles. I'm
not sure how this would work though. (I'm completely clueless as to how
computers and the Internet really work)
Could you expand on this?
--
Beth
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Write your senators and urge them to support Senator Leahy's Bill (Senate
Bill 1567 to repeal section 502 of the CDA). You can get your senators'
e-mail address at http://www.senate.gov.
According to the Communications Decency Act, these are the words you may
no longer use in your Internet correspondence: Shit, piss, fuck, cunt,
cock-sucker, mother-fucker and tits. The use of shit, piss, fuck, cunt,
cock-sucker, mother-fucker and tits, may now earn you a substantial fine
as well as possible jail time, since President Clinton has signed this
Bill into law. Please refrain from using shit, piss, fuck, cunt, cock-
sucker, mother-fucker and tits, to protect your children as well as
others, from their evil influence, thus keeping America "ideologically
pure".
Tom Horsley
>that since we're automoderating, it should be possible to put keywords
>on the posts for people to select what they're interested in.
>
>Anyone interested in something like that? How would you like it to
>work?
It's a good idea. I already plan to kill all the posts with "spoiler" in
the name. Perhaps another keyword "moderation" could be used for boring
technical discussions about how the group works (like this one :-).
--
--
Tom.H...@mail.hcsc.com
Work: Harris Computers, 2101 W. Cypress Creek Rd. Ft. Lauderdale FL 33309
The 2 most important political web sites: http://www.vote-smart.org (Project
Vote Smart), and http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/TomHorsley (Me!)
Jay Denebeim
>My personal translation of this: "Dammit, there's still gonna be 9
>gazillion posts per day I'll have to wade through!" :)
Sorry, yeah, that's been the intent all along. Now, the good thing is
that since we're automoderating, it should be possible to put keywords
on the posts for people to select what they're interested in.
Anyone interested in something like that? How would you like it to
work?
Jay
Tom Horsley
>interactive television that's been going on on-line for several years.
>I'd hope that folks take advantage of this to find out more about how
>television is made, how this kind of story gets produced, to help
>demystify television so that in the end we can get better choices by
>knowing what to ask for, and understanding the medium.
On the topic of transforming television, I've had this hope for a while
that the new technology (coming soon to a home near me :-) will totally
transform the relationship between artists, viewers, networks, and
advertisers, and here's my chance to ask an TV insider if he thinks any
of this sort of stuff might be possible.
In my ideal world, what was formerly TV operates like this:
* Most TV is video on demand - no longer am I held in thrall to local TV
stations schedulers and preemptions for ballgames running overtime, etc.
I can even program my digital assistant to notify me as soon as a new
episode of Babylon 5 becomes available, and I can watch it when I want
to (with or without commercials - I'll get to how the money flows in a
second).
* I pay for whatever I want to watch. The rate is set by what the
producers of that program want to charge (they have to decide
how much they can get away with charging). The money comes out of
a special account I have setup, and there are many interesting
ways for money to get into that account.
* I can, of course, put cash in my account, just like paying a cable
bill every month (but at least I get to decide how much I want to
spend). However, (and this is the really important part), I can also
get money deposited in my account by watching (or interacting with)
advertisments. If I choose to watch TV with ads, each ad that comes
on during the program automagically deposits money in my account.
I can also go watch pure commercial programs that I interact with
(like market surveys, or game test drives, etc), and these programs
pay me to watch them.
So we have the entire TV world turned upside down. Advertisers no longer
sponsor programs, they sponsor individual viewers. Programs are no longer
paid for by advertising revenue, they are paid for by the
viewers. Individual viewers can choose to pay everything out of their
pocket, or accept the ad dollars. Producers no longer have sponsors hovering
over them worrying about offending someone since no sponsor is associated
with any particular programming. Producers also no longer have to worry
about breaking some mass market threshold. Since there isn't really any
broadcasting anymore, they don't have to produce programs with a broad
enough appeal to take up broadcast time. All they have to do is get a big
enough market to stay in business.
Does any of this make sense? Can you see anything remotely like this ever
happening? (There are a lot of rich and powerful industries that would be
hurt by this, so I can imagine there would be a few obstacles :-).
Robert Link
>Jay Denebeim (dene...@deepthot.cary.nc.us) wrote:
>: In article <4jves4$7...@piglet.cc.utexas.edu>,
>: <ri...@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu> wrote:
>
>: >My personal translation of this: "Dammit, there's still gonna be 9
>: >gazillion posts per day I'll have to wade through!" :)
>
>: Sorry, yeah, that's been the intent all along. Now, the good thing is
>: that since we're automoderating, it should be possible to put keywords
>: on the posts for people to select what they're interested in.
>
>: Anyone interested in something like that? How would you like it to
>: work?
>
>
>not sure how this would work though. (I'm completely clueless as to how
>computers and the Internet really work)
>
>Could you expand on this?
>
There is no reason to change the actual titles, since there is already
a keywords header line. The main thing would be to come up with a set
of meaningful keywords that people could use to filter out stuff
they're not interested in.
Also, I am not sure how this relates to the automoderating. Jay, are
you suggesting that the software somehow add the appropriate keywords?
--
-r | ``What lies behind us and what lies before us are
| tiny matters compared to what lies within us.''
| --Ralph Waldo Emerson
Jay Denebeim
Robert Link <li...@enif.astro.indiana.edu> wrote:
>There is no reason to change the actual titles, since there is already
>a keywords header line. The main thing would be to come up with a set
>of meaningful keywords that people could use to filter out stuff
>they're not interested in.
>
>Also, I am not sure how this relates to the automoderating. Jay, are
>you suggesting that the software somehow add the appropriate keywords?
Yeah. It already ads keywords for spoilers. I was thinking we could
come up with a standard set of keywords, perhaps regional, like the TV
station letters for announcements pertaining to those, one to flag
science discussions, etc.. There's a fairly diverse set of people
here, some have different interests than others. Once we decide on a
set of keywords, the moderation script could normalize them. It could
also do keyword matches in the body of the text rather easily.
For now, spoilers (that the moderators said were spoilers anyway) do
have a common set. At this time, the keywords are:
MoH,Matters of Honor
C,Convictions
ADitS,A Day in the Strife
PtG,Passing Through Gesthemene
VoA,Voices of Authority
DtD,Dust to Dust
E,Exogenesis
MfE,Messages from Earth
PoNR,Point of No Return
SD,Severed Dreams
CoLaD,Ceremonies of Light and Dark
STV,Sic Transit Vir
ALDfA,A Late Delivery from Avalon
SoT,Ship of Tears
IaE,Interludes and Examinations
WWE1,War Without End, Part One
WWE2,War Without End, Part Two
WWE,War Without End
W,Walkabout
G17iM,Grey 17 Is Missing
AtRCONHP,And the Rock Cried Out, No Hiding Place
Spoiler episodes will have one or more of these in the keywords field.
Nathan J. Mehl
ri...@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu
Tom Horsley <Tom.H...@mail.hcsc.com> wrote:
> * I pay for whatever I want to watch. The rate is set by what the
> producers of that program want to charge (they have to decide
> how much they can get away with charging). The money comes out of
> a special account I have setup, and there are many interesting
> ways for money to get into that account.
I REALLY have a problem with this. I -never- would have gotten the
opportunity to watch B5 the first time if this is how it had been set
up. Remember, Babylon 5 is -not- a cheap show to make. And in order for
something not cheap to start out, it has to have the backing of big-time
bucks for starting expenses.
Finally, I can't stand PPV--the best thing about advertisements is that
they make the signals FREE for the consumer. If you don't like them, you
simply hit the MUTE button whenever they come on. When they're gone, you
hit it again to hear your favorite program (Babylon 5).
Worst of all, a system like this would favor high-profit shows; in other
words, cheap, easy-to-produce talk shows and the like would gain an even
bigger share of TV than even their current overabundance, and new
expensive-to-produce SF shows would disappear entirely, even under the
Star Trek label.
I think the best TV system we will ever have is DSS. I've seen it, I've
used it at my parents' house extensively while I was home for a bit (and
too ill to play with the dogs outside), and it truly is remarkable.
But don't make all of TV PPV, OK?
Chris Burris
: jms...@aol.com (Jms at B5) wrote:
: >The welcome mat is out, the porch light is on, and there's lemonade over
: >by the front rail. I hope you'll all sit for a while and hang out. Looks
: >like it's gonna be a nice night....
: >jms
: Can't wait until the fireflies come out........
: And glad to have you back.
Just to share the sentiment, I'm glad to see you back in our midst again, jms.
It's rare for a person involved with a television show that has an impressive
following to interact in such a fashion. It is unique, and I'm glad to have a
spot on the porch.
Big thanks to the moderators for making all of this possible, too. I'm glad
that this group exists, and I hope to be able to share more in the future in
this setting. Until next time....
-CJB, who has a few jars to study those fireflies :)
--
---------------------------Hailing Frequencies Closed------------------------
-Christian J. Burris bur...@lib.wfu.edu-
"Time will tell, it always does."- The 7th Doctor
Josh M. Osborne
>In my ideal world, what was formerly TV operates like this:
>
> * Most TV is video on demand - no longer am I held in thrall to local TV
> stations schedulers and preemptions for ballgames running overtime, etc.
> I can even program my digital assistant to notify me as soon as a new
> episode of Babylon 5 becomes available, and I can watch it when I want
> to (with or without commercials - I'll get to how the money flows in a
> second).
I would really enjoy that. It's something I really want. However
I'm not so sure it will happen.
This is (unfortunitly) the part I think is unrealistic. It is also
the most important technological part. If you look at cable TV systems
they basicly have 100 TV chanels worth of bandwidth. They show 100
diffrent programs (or more recently, 80 diffrent programs, with a bunch
of 'em being pay-per-view & broadcast at diffrent offsets so you can
start watching the same 2hour movie at any half hour boundry...).
If all shows were "on demand" the same capacity would only be able to
serve 100 people.
Getting the bandwidth for "on demand" will be extreamly expensave.
There are advances in that field, but they don't happen all that
frequently. I wouldn't hold my breath.
Compresion would be as good as more bandwidth. Unfortunitly I don't
think you will see compresion that gets more then 3x to 4x without
noticable loss of quality. So that cable will only support 300 to
400 people. Or (more likely) 300 to 400 chanels.
> * I pay for whatever I want to watch. [...] The money comes out of
> a special account I have setup, and there are many interesting
> ways for money to get into that account.
>
> * I can, of course, put cash in my account, [...]
> [...] However, (and this is the really important part), I can also
> get money deposited in my account by watching (or interacting with)
> advertisments. If I choose to watch TV with ads, each ad that comes
> on during the program automagically deposits money in my account.
> I can also go watch pure commercial programs that I interact with
> (like market surveys, or game test drives, etc), and these programs
> pay me to watch them.
Unfortunitly because the advertisers now (in effect) sponsor
individual viewers, and individual viewers have diffrent value,
diffrent people will be able to get diffrent amounts of "money"
for watching diffrent amounts of comercials (and perhapse just as
upsetting to may diffrent quality comercials). I doubt that BMW
would be intrested in paying most 12 year old kids to watch their
comercials. Especally if child is unfortunite enough to be in a
poor family. However I am sure they would be intrested in getting
a welthy lawyer (or doctor, or...) to watch. Intrested enough that
they might be willing to pay *more* then the Pop Tarts people were
willing to pay the 12 year old.
You arn't going to get the advertisers to buy in without doing
at least something in that direction. After all thedy have a
crude form of that today. You don't see many BMW comercials on
during The Tick (a saterday morning cartoon) do you? You don't
see many comercials for Capt'n Crunch cereal during ER do you?
However lots of people would be greatly offended by big componies
saying (in effect) "I don't want to sell to you". Perhapse enough
to ask Uncle Sam to butt in...
>So we have the entire TV world turned upside down. Advertisers no longer
>sponsor programs, they sponsor individual viewers. Programs are no longer
>paid for by advertising revenue, they are paid for by the
>viewers. Individual viewers can choose to pay everything out of their
>pocket, or accept the ad dollars. Producers no longer have sponsors hovering
>over them worrying about offending someone since no sponsor is associated
>with any particular programming. Producers also no longer have to worry
>about breaking some mass market threshold. Since there isn't really any
>broadcasting anymore, they don't have to produce programs with a broad
>enough appeal to take up broadcast time. All they have to do is get a big
>enough market to stay in business.
Big enough? Not exactly. In fact not at all. A show could exist
with a *tiny* number of viewers. Just so long as the viewers were
willing to pay enough to keep the show on the air. As an extreme
example the "Bill Gates News Broadcast: Everything Bill Needs To
Know" could get by with an audiance of just one, provided he is
willing to pony up a a cupple hundard thou per show. More usefully
audiance sizes that current advertisers would laugh at could support
a show merely by deciding that it is worth two or three times as
much as the other stuff on the air.
As it is I can't really do much to convince Zima that their advertising
dollar was well spent (I did try - I mailed 'em a letter saying I bought
a siz-pack of their product merely because it advertised on B5 - I left
out the part about me throwing away 5 of the bottles. The lack of reply
makes me think they didn't pay any attention).
>Does any of this make sense? Can you see anything remotely like this ever
>happening?
Not really. But I can hope.
> (There are a lot of rich and powerful industries that would be
>hurt by this, so I can imagine there would be a few obstacles :-).
For the most part the industries will be unhurt. There will still
be advertisers. There will still be producers. There will still
be studios. The roles will change enough that the currently dominant
players in each industry stand a chance of being displaced. That may
be enough to make them resist. More likely a blindness to the actual
desires of the viewing public will prevent them from exploring this
kind of thing (remember it will be very hard to start this kind of
thing up!). Or (just as likely) our view of what others want is
flawed, and we are the only two people on earth that want this...
--
Not speaking for my employer
Edwin Yoo
: Sorry, yeah, that's been the intent all along. Now, the good thing is
: that since we're automoderating, it should be possible to put keywords
: on the posts for people to select what they're interested in.
: Anyone interested in something like that? How would you like it to
: work?
this depends on how it works. i kinda wished people would use threaded
news readers and get better isp's etc.
as for changing subject titles: i really believe the moderators should
MINIMIZE their presence. adding spoiler space is one thing...editing of
posts is another.
--
////
stelladora bread sticks...
T Green
>Getting the bandwidth for "on demand" will be extreamly expensave.
>There are advances in that field, but they don't happen all that
>frequently. I wouldn't hold my breath.
Uhh, Josh?
The technology for VOD [Video on Demand] is called "optical fiber".
Three years ago I saw fiber-to-the-home deliver a full-length movie over
switched [aka "dial-up"] circuits to a home in under 5 seconds. You then
had a VCR-like control that let you PLAY, PAUSE, REWIND, etc., the images
for a set period.
I grant you that the whole system was a test-bed cable system and, even
then, only a handful of homes in the city had true VOD; but I got the
impression that that had a lot more to do with the cost of the image
storage device than the cost of fiber.
Yes, replacing the existing copper with fiber _is_ expensive, but that
certainly is _not_ slowing the people eager to re-"wire" America.
( I'll let the Brits and the rest of the world speak for themselves ;)
Three years ago, you could count the homes with VOD on your fingers and
toes (or maybe just your thumbs). This year, they're burying a fiber=
to-the-neighborhood system a block (and a franchise boundary) from where
I live.
You might just be able to hold your breath long enough.
<<tg>>
Christopher T. Hanlon
>This group, fundamentally, is for the users. For all those who felt they
>had to stop posting or just drop out of the prior group, and those who
>stayed in the original group and want some options. The purpose, as I
>understand it, is to moderate those situations where you have someone who
>is chronically abusive to other users, engaging in personal attacks.
>Simple truth is we're all gonna lose our temper from time to time, use
>terms in the heat of an argument we probably shouldn't...but it's my sense
>that this shouldn't be interfered with until and unless it becomes a
>chronic problem.
I am one of the above. I lurked around rastb5 for about a year,
posting occasionally...but it ended up that all I was doing was
searching for JMS posts, and ignoring almost everything else
(including replies to the above) for fear of getting involved with
some of the nonsense. By the time you left, there was no point in
looking at the other threads. I hung around there afterwards only to
keep up with the moderation debate, and took myself off to news.groups
when discussion moved there.
>From the volume and quality of the posts that I've seen here so far,
I think we made the right choice. The moderation is quick, and
reletively painless - in fact, my posts to this group have actually
shown up here faster than they did on rastb5 most of the time...
Thanks, Joe, for making the decision to join us here. We who were
fed up with the nonsense were going to leave rastb5 one way or the
other, but your return, here, is the icing on the cake.
__________________________________
<*>
Christopher T. Hanlon
cha...@vaxxine.com
http://vaxxine.com/npi
Christopher T. Hanlon
>Welcome jms, glad you could make it to the new group. I trust you're
>finding the new software easier to deal with than the e-mail.
>So, at this point, it appears reality is on the side of the pro-mod
>group. The technical naysaying we heard about in the newsgroup has
>not as of yet materialized. (now, bugs we got, I stomped a few last
>night and will stomp some more tonight)
Here's one for you to stomp. I posted to the group yesterday (4/4)
and received the e-mail from the automod. As instructed, I sent back
a reply. Today I got a reply from automod, saying that I'd sent an
invalid message...but from the header on my next post, today, I see
that it's put me on the automoderation...
Tom Hall
>The welcome mat is out, the porch light is on, and there's lemonade over
>by the front rail. I hope you'll all sit for a while and hang out. Looks
>like it's gonna be a nice night....
..and outtakes are being shown in the parlor at 11pm?
I'm on my way with a case of beer; any preferences? <grin>
Tom
Jay Denebeim
Edwin Yoo <edwi...@husc.HARVARD.EDU> wrote:
>as for changing subject titles: i really believe the moderators should
>MINIMIZE their presence. adding spoiler space is one thing...editing of
>posts is another.
The spoiler protection code changes the title to a standard one 'name
of episode (* spoilers *)', and inserts spoiler space. That's the
only 'editing' I can do to a post at all. I purposefully did not
allow the moderators to do anything else in the code that most of us
are currently using.
One of the moderators has been inserting clearly delimited
"moderator's voice" comments in some of the posts. As you can see,
they're quite tasteful and used very sparingly. I don't have any
trouble with this, if anyone else does, let us know and we'll do
something about it.
Elizabeth Kirton-Crane
<4jves4$7...@piglet.cc.utexas.edu>, : <ri...@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu> wrote:
: this is just a wild idea. We could have headers in the subject line
: of the posts. eg.US: SPOILER severed dreams
: UK: SPECULATON severed dreams
: ALL: question on season 2?
: since this is an international group and people on either side of the
: Atlantic are on different schedules it would help when scanning the
: postings and decide what to read. I can't think of any other
: keywords that we can use to help people decide what they want to
: read. There are several usenet groups that have keywords that
: "members" are required to follow. rec.arts.tv.soaps.abc comes to
: mind they have a good system for all the users.JMHO.
: Beth(when is marcus going to return?)
: >My personal translation of this: "Dammit, there's still gonna be 9
: >gazillion posts per day I'll have to wade through!" :)
: Sorry, yeah, that's been the intent all along. Now, the good thing is
: that since we're automoderating, it should be possible to put keywords
: on the posts for people to select what they're interested in.
: Anyone interested in something like that? How would you like it to
: work?
: Jay
Paul Steinberg
Timothy W. Lynch
>as for changing subject titles: i really believe the moderators should
>MINIMIZE their presence. adding spoiler space is one thing...editing of
>posts is another.
I have to agree with this. This is only my second post to rastb5mod,
and my first had its title changed. Now, the *substance* didn't
change, which is all well and good -- but I don't see any reason why
my subject line needed "fixing". Truth be told, I thought it was a
heck of a lot more descriptive than the one the post ended up with.
A fairly minor annoyance, but an annoyance nonetheless. Can the
moderators agree to not change titles without a good reason?
Tim Lynch
Christine C. Raasch
I'm glad someone has mentioned this...I am also a wee bit nonplussed
about the title changes; not because I've had any posts of my own
changed (just started looking around here), but because it makes for
big useless non-connected threads. Not a trivial matter in a group
this size (getting bigger daily, natch).
For example, under "Severed Dreams (* Spoilers *)" I found what should
be several different sub-threads, including a very critical review that
will doubtless generate a lot of disagreement (*friendly* of course ;-).
Perhaps with trn I could keep track of the branching snarl that will
grow from that Subject, but I'm stuck using Newswatcher which ain't
got the smarts.
I know it's a lot to ask, but if titles must be changed, can they
at least be different somehow so they will thread separately?
Thanks for all your hard work, moderators!
- Chris
--
Christine C. Raasch <*> Neuromuscular Biomechanist <*> Bikerbabe
Rehab Inst of Chicago <*> Northwestern Univ <*> 86 Nighthawk 700S
Laz Marhenke
>interpreted by anyone as inhibiting constructive criticism. We learn by
>doing. That means sometimes we make mistakes. When that happens, it's
>not just a Good Idea to let us know, it's *necessary*. If you can point
>to something in an episode that doesn't work...then point. If it's an
>objective goof, then it's something we can learn from. If it's a
>subjective opinion, then it opens up discussion from all sides.
Ok, I'll take you up on this, but I'll do the opposite. I'll tell
you some things that did work. (These may be somewhat backhanded
complements, though, since some of these point to things that haven't
worked for me in the past. But by the same token, then, I'm pointing
at improvements. Take it as you will. :') )
[SPOILERS FOR Severed Dreams FOLLOW!]
The scene with Garibaldi and the Narns was very nice. I'm refering to
the part where he says something like "We'll cut them off here...", and
then all the Narns completely ignore him and rush into the fray. I know
to comment on this only because someone else (Jay, I think) commented on
it. When I watched the scene myself, I understood perfectly well what was
going on, but I didn't get the disconcerting sense that someone was
_telling_ me what was going on (which, unfortunately, sometimes happens
on B5). I felt like the characters were talking to each other, not to me,
and I saw immediately what their actions were and why they were doing them.
All this is just as it should be, which is why I pick this scene as one
that I liked :') . Basically, the medium of transmission (the TV
production process) was perfectly transparent, letting me see the story
unimpeded. It took Jay's comment to make me say "Oh yeah, that was nice!".
When things work well, we often don't notice it (I would go so far as to
say that the two usually imply each other).
Another good & subtle thing: When Captain What's-Her-Name's ship is
dying, and Major Whositzer is talking with her, we hear her say "Nothing
to do now but s..." I assume she was saying "set to ram"; what I like
about this scene is that, again, I wasn't _told_ what she was doing.
Instead, I got a hint, and then was _shown_ what she did. I had actually
guessed that she was going to ram a fraction of a second before it was
shown (as she said, there was nothing else to do), but it was especially
fun to be able to feel "smart" for having figured it out.
Delenn's scene at the Grey Council was also nice. At the end, she
calls for people to join her, and five council members go with her (if
I counted correctly). One just assumes that it's the four Warrior Caste
members that stayed behind, and you only know that if you remember the
episode which showed that the Council was out-of-balance. Again, I
liked having things left unsaid; things I had to think a little and
observe closely to figure out.
I also liked how you handled losing the actor who played General
Haig (Hague? I can never remember). I guess it was the "obvious" thing
to do, but it was pretty realistic, when you think about it.
So. Anyway. Liked the episode. :')
Laz
Mike Stafford
>>In my ideal world, what was formerly TV operates like this:
> * I pay for whatever I want to watch. The rate is set by what the
> producers of that program want to charge (they have to decide
> how much they can get away with charging). The money comes out of
> a special account I have setup, and there are many interesting
> ways for money to get into that account.
I prefer our current system, where they advertisers put out the money, and
gamble that I will watch, and buy. This way sounds as if I am putting out the
money, and gambling on whether I will like it or not.
Bob Myers
word around here..:-)) both here and in this group's earlier incarnation
for some time, I finally found an excuse to post....
Josh M. Osborne (str...@va.pubnix.com) wrote:
> Getting the bandwidth for "on demand" will be extreamly expensave.
> There are advances in that field, but they don't happen all that
> frequently. I wouldn't hold my breath.
> Compresion would be as good as more bandwidth. Unfortunitly I don't
> think you will see compresion that gets more then 3x to 4x without
> noticable loss of quality. So that cable will only support 300 to
> 400 people. Or (more likely) 300 to 400 chanels.
Actually, the development of digital HDTV is moving up rapidly in
this direction. Compression of far more than 3-4x is required to
fit the HDTV signal into the 6 MHz-wide "pipe" that the FCC says it
must fit. Successful encoding schemes have already been developed
which do this for both intended formats (1280 x 720 and 1920 x 1080
pixels) at reasonable frame rates.
It's the old question of how many phone lines (channels) you need to
support N customers (viewers); not everyone is watching all the time,
so not everyone needs a dedicated channel. Of those watching, only
a fraction will be using the "on-demand" features, which further
frees up some bandwidth. Some may even select their desired programming
ahead of time, and then let the system download it to local storage
during low-usage periods (overnight, f'rinstance) or in bursts during
momentary lulls. I suspect that if you actually need the full high-res
image delivered over the wire at 24 frames/second, each and every second,
you'll pay a premium for the service.
BTW - since I am posting for the first time - many thanks to JMS for
providing us with one of the most eminently-watchable shows (and I'm
NOT restricting that to the SF genre!) to come out of that damned box
over there in the corner in quite some time. Live, Londo (and all the
rest) and prosper...
Bob Myers | my...@fc.hp.com
Senior Engineer, Displays | Note: The opinions presented
Workstation Systems Division | here are not those of my employer
Hewlett-Packard Co., Ft. Collins, CO | or of any rational person.
Jms at B5
jms
Jay Denebeim
Christine C. Raasch <raa...@nwu.edu> wrote:
>> A fairly minor annoyance, but an annoyance nonetheless. Can the
>> moderators agree to not change titles without a good reason?
>I'm glad someone has mentioned this...I am also a wee bit nonplussed
>about the title changes; not because I've had any posts of my own
>changed (just started looking around here), but because it makes for
>big useless non-connected threads. Not a trivial matter in a group
>this size (getting bigger daily, natch).
>
>I know it's a lot to ask, but if titles must be changed, can they
>at least be different somehow so they will thread separately?
The automated spoiler protection consists of putting the Subject into
a fixed format, and inserting spoiler protection.
If you'd like threads with different subjects (I don't particularly
like them this way either BTW), don't post unprotected spoilers.
Simple.
The group has been up three days, and we've already had over 1000
messages, over 750 of which were hand moderated. We don't have time to
come up with a unique subject for each one.
As more people become automoderated, our workload will decrease some,
but not alot, we still have to read all the messages and retro add
spoiler protection for the ones that people on the automod list post,
those actually take more time because we have to write a warning
message to each person (this I'll probably automate).
People, this is alot of work. PLEASE PLEASE spoiler protect your
posts.
Jay Denebeim
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> The scene with Garibaldi and the Narns was very nice. I'm
> refering to the part where he says something like "We'll cut them
> off here...", and then all the Narns completely ignore him and rush
> into the fray. I know to comment on this only because someone else
> (Jay, I think) commented on it. When I watched the scene myself, I
> understood perfectly well what was going on, but I didn't get the
> disconcerting sense that someone was _telling_ me what was going on
> (which, unfortunately, sometimes happens on B5). I felt like the
> characters were talking to each other, not to me, and I saw
> immediately what their actions were and why they were doing them.
> All this is just as it should be, which is why I pick this scene as
> one that I liked :') . Basically, the medium of transmission (the
> TV production process) was perfectly transparent, letting me see the
> story unimpeded. It took Jay's comment to make me say "Oh yeah,
> that was nice!". When things work well, we often don't notice it (I
> would go so far as to say that the two usually imply each other).
That's when it works. That's most of the time, so much that when it
DOESN'T work, it's jarring.
The most recent example of this is Londo telling Vir about lady
Morella's prophetic abilities, and the way Centauri nobility is set up
in PoNR. Vir would know this stuff, obviously, he's not a total
idiot. WE needed to know this, and it was glaringly obvious that
Londo was talking to us, not Vir.
Londo is particularly tricky in this respect now because he doesn't
have any friends to speak of anymore. He hasn't talked with
Garibaldi, his best, only really, friend on the station, all season.
It's a fine line that jms has to walk here, how to be true to the
characters and what each knows, how much the audience needs to be told
explictily, and how explicit he should make it.
He's writing for bright people for the most part, since this audience
doesn't get written for very often, especially in television, it's
understandable why there's so many bright fanatics of the show. We're
starving for something like B5 that can engage our minds. However,
we're a picky lot, when our intelligence is insulted, we tend to turn
around and bite the hand that's feeding it.
Anyway, I see this as a problem with the show. When I see scenes like
this, it reminds me that I'm watching something rather than seeing
real people interact with each other.
Most of G'Kar's information to impart is about Narn religion. Having
Na'Toth/Ta'Lon being an unbeliever in his brand of religion gives
G'Kar the plausable ability to impart the stuff we need by arguing
religion with her/him.
Delenn can play off Sheridan for the stuff she needs to impart.
Ivonava/Garibaldi/Franklin can use Sheridan for this as well. (This
is one of the things that makes Sheridan necessary for the story IMO.
In the first season there were alot of problems like the one above
because everyone was so bright, intelligent, and knowledgeable, there
wasn't anybody to plausably impart information to the viewer with. A
neophyte was needed, Sheridan is perfect for that part.)
Londo, because of his isolation, doesn't have anyone to play off of
except Vir. This leads to things I find jarring like the scene with
Morella.
Elayne Wechsler-Chaput
: Perhaps another keyword "moderation" could be used for boring
: technical discussions about how the group works (like this one :-).
I have a word I think might work better. Over in the rec.arts.comics
newsgroups we use "META" (which I think stands for "metatextual") to
refer to posts ABOUT the newsgroup itself rather than the newsgroup's
subject matter. Just a thought.
- Elayne
--
E-Mail me, the "Firehead Head," for more info about the official ()~~
Firesign Theatre newsletter, Four-Alarm FIRESIGNal, available via ##
snail mail or free online! "I couldn't get you to believe my name ##
was Mr. and Mrs. John Smith, could I?" _##_
Wesley Struebing
>In article <4jves4$7...@piglet.cc.utexas.edu>,
> <ri...@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu> wrote:
>>My personal translation of this: "Dammit, there's still gonna be 9
>>gazillion posts per day I'll have to wade through!" :)
>Sorry, yeah, that's been the intent all along. Now, the good thing is
>that since we're automoderating, it should be possible to put keywords
>on the posts for people to select what they're interested in.
>Anyone interested in something like that? How would you like it to
>work?
>Jay
>--
>Jay Denebeim dene...@deepthot.cary.nc.us
> duke.edu!wolves!deepthot!denebeim
>Fuck censorship! Oh *shit* there goes another 100, er $200,000
I'm nosy, Jay. Iwant it all (Morden would love me!)
Take care and keep the faith!
Wes
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The Communications Decency Act of 1996 -
Small Minds Bring You Small Products
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
str...@ix.netcom.com str...@aol.com
Timothy W. Lynch
[responding to me]
>>> A fairly minor annoyance, but an annoyance nonetheless. Can the
>>> moderators agree to not change titles without a good reason?
>The automated spoiler protection consists of putting the Subject into
>a fixed format, and inserting spoiler protection.
>If you'd like threads with different subjects (I don't particularly
>like them this way either BTW), don't post unprotected spoilers.
>Simple.
Very simple ... except for the minor fact that my post *had no*
unprotected spoilers.
Given that I'm automoderated, I don't anticipate future problems for
me personally, but given that I'd put spoiler protection in the post,
this justification sounds a bit weak.
Again, it's a minor nit; the group as a whole seems to be working
well.
Tim Lynch
Jay Denebeim
Timothy W. Lynch <tly...@alumni.caltech.edu> wrote:
>Very simple ... except for the minor fact that my post *had no*
>unprotected spoilers.
>
>Given that I'm automoderated, I don't anticipate future problems for
>me personally, but given that I'd put spoiler protection in the post,
>this justification sounds a bit weak.
>
>Again, it's a minor nit; the group as a whole seems to be working
>well.
Thanks...
Anyway, I looked back at your original post. It was me that approved
it adding spoiler protection. You're right, the spoilers in it were
quite well protected (assuming the subject line wasn't a spoiler,
which was not saved).
Now, remember how many posts I had to deal with at first. It took a
couple of days to get the other moderators on-line. Those first 700
messages were all delt with by me personally.
The way the moderation software works, I have to pipe the post into a
script. The pipe command in Pine defaults to the last command piped
into. I could very easily have been going too fast trying to cope
with all the messages, and didn't notice that the last command I ran
was the spoiler protect one rather than the approved one.
Alex Siegel
fire...@panix.com (Elayne Wechsler-Chaput) wrote:
> Tom Horsley (t...@ssd.hcsc.com) wrote:
>
> : Perhaps another keyword "moderation" could be used for boring
> : technical discussions about how the group works (like this one :-).
>
> I have a word I think might work better. Over in the rec.arts.comics
> newsgroups we use "META" (which I think stands for "metatextual") to
> refer to posts ABOUT the newsgroup itself rather than the newsgroup's
> subject matter. Just a thought.
Then this would be a meta-meta-post.
Alex
Christine C. Raasch
> >> moderators agree to not change titles without a good reason?
>
> >about the title changes; not because I've had any posts of my own
> >changed (just started looking around here), but because it makes for
> >big useless non-connected threads. Not a trivial matter in a group
> >this size (getting bigger daily, natch).
>
> The automated spoiler protection consists of putting the Subject into
> a fixed format, and inserting spoiler protection.
>
> If you'd like threads with different subjects (I don't particularly
> like them this way either BTW), don't post unprotected spoilers.
> Simple.
Okay, Jay-bud <g>, I see your point. (And I don't post unprotected
spoilers.) So, people, if you don't want your wondrous words of wisdom
to be buried with 500 identically-named spoiler posts, please *don't*
dump the job on the moderators: add spoiler protection so your hard
work will retain its unique title.
(Couldn't your spoiler script add the first four letters of the poster's
name or some such to the title? Sorry, I'm whining again. I'll stop, I
promise. :-)
Albion
>TOGA (mle...@cris.com) wrote:
>: jms...@aol.com (Jms at B5) wrote:
>: >The welcome mat is out, the porch light is on, and there's lemonade over
>: >by the front rail. I hope you'll all sit for a while and hang out. Looks
>: >like it's gonna be a nice night....
>: >jms
>: Can't wait until the fireflies come out........
>: And glad to have you back.
>Just to share the sentiment, I'm glad to see you back in our midst again, jms.
>It's rare for a person involved with a television show that has an impressive
>following to interact in such a fashion. It is unique, and I'm glad to have a
>spot on the porch.
>Big thanks to the moderators for making all of this possible, too. I'm glad
>that this group exists, and I hope to be able to share more in the future in
>this setting. Until next time....
>-CJB, who has a few jars to study those fireflies :)
>--
>---------------------------Hailing Frequencies Closed------------------------
>-Christian J. Burris bur...@lib.wfu.edu-
> "Time will tell, it always does."- The 7th Doctor
I would also like to thank the moderators and JMS for taking the time
to make the usenet group a little nicer for those of us who choose not
to engange in flame wars and spamming.
Thank you,
Albion
Chris Carter
by spoilers for Matters of Honor...
__________
/ _________ \
/ / \ \
------------------------------------------------
/ ______________________________________________ \
/ / \ \
/ / \ \
\ \ / /
\ \ ____________________ / /
\ \ l------------------- /
\ \ / /
/ \ / \
/ / \ \ ____________ / / \ \
/ / \ \ l----------- / \ \
/ / / \ / \ \ \
/ / / /\ \ / /\ \ \ \
\ \_____/ / \ \ / / \ \_____/ /
\________/ \ \________/ / \________/
\__________/
In article <4k67g9$5...@zaphod.deepthot.cary.nc.us>,
dene...@deepthot.cary.nc.us (Jay Denebeim) wrote:
:It's a fine line that jms has to walk here, how to be true to the
:characters and what each knows, how much the audience needs to be told
:explictily, and how explicit he should make it.
:
:He's writing for bright people for the most part, since this audience
:doesn't get written for very often, especially in television, it's
:understandable why there's so many bright fanatics of the show. We're
:starving for something like B5 that can engage our minds. However,
:we're a picky lot, when our intelligence is insulted, we tend to turn
:around and bite the hand that's feeding it.
:
:Anyway, I see this as a problem with the show. When I see scenes like
:this, it reminds me that I'm watching something rather than seeing
:real people interact with each other.
Here's a tidbit I wrote for GEnie a while back, that speaks to the same
issue...
[begin text import]
In MoH, there was a scene in DownBelow where Marcus, Delenn and Lennier
were attacked by some thugs. At the end of the encounter Delenn makes a
statement in recognition of Marcus' telescoping quarterstaff, saying, "a
Minbari Fighting <mumblemumble>, and old one." I found this bit of
expository dialogue (explaining the origin of the staff) a bit clumsy, but
rather than simply write some annoying commentary about it, I post the
following, more humorous (I hope) tidbit.
What if the encounter with the thugs were written by the folks who used to
write dialogue for the 'Superfriends' cartoons...?
[Thugs approach menacingly.]
Marcus <in a commanding voice>: Lennier, protect the Ambassador by using
your martial arts skills, while I deploy my trusty Minbari Fighting
<mumblemumble>, and vanquish the leader of this band of thugs.
[A fight ensues, during which...]
Marcus: Take my staff, Delenn. I'll dispatch my remaining opponents in a
more pugilistic fashion.
Lennier <to a thug>: You presume to test your skills against my martial
arts? Feel the force of my Iron Fist!
Delenn <now with staff>: Ah, a Minbari Fighting <mumblemumble>. Now I can
properly display my own martial skills...
[The battle ends with many groaning thugs. Our heroes are barely winded.]
Delenn: Marcus, this certainly is a fine old Minbari Fighting
<mumblemumble>. Where did you get it?
Marcus: A friend. Now lets go, before Lex Luthor decides to take an
interest in our business here.
[end text import]
Chris Carter -- car...@teleport.com Unaffiliated with Teleport or FOX TV.
http://www.teleport.com/~carter/ ftp://ftp.teleport.com/users/carter/
<*> 'finger -l car...@teleport.com' for PGP public key. <*>
"With ABC deleting dynamite gags from cartoons, do you find that your
children are using explosives less frequently?" -- Mark LoPresti
Janis Maria C. C. Cortese
>In article <TOM.96Ap...@amber.ssd.csd.harris.com>,
>Tom Horsley <Tom.H...@mail.hcsc.com> wrote:
>> producers of that program want to charge (they have to decide
>> how much they can get away with charging). The money comes out of
>> a special account I have setup, and there are many interesting
>> ways for money to get into that account.
>
>opportunity to watch B5 the first time if this is how it had been set
>up. Remember, Babylon 5 is -not- a cheap show to make. And in order for
>something not cheap to start out, it has to have the backing of big-time
>bucks for starting expenses.
Not to mention the fact that most writers don't make a lot of money and
probably couldn't afford too much PPV, so the very people who we would
rely upon to make the show in ten year, or a show like it, would be
barred from watching. If entertainment is going to be decent, we've got
to have the lines of production relatively free, at least no more
constrained than they are now.
Take care,
Janis
cor...@netcom.com http://www.io.com/~cortese/
<*> Follow the homepage links to Feminism and 2nd Amendment Issues!
========================================================================
"Termiter's argument that God is His own grandmother generated a
surprising amount of controversy among Church leaders, who on the one
hand considered the argument unsupported by scripture but on the other
hand were unwilling to risk offending God's grandmother."
-- Len Cool, "American Pie"
Janis Maria C. C. Cortese
>Spoilers for Severed Dreams and Point of No Return eliminated and replaced
>by spoilers for Matters of Honor...
>
> __________
> / _________ \
> / / \ \
> ------------------------------------------------
> / ______________________________________________ \
> / / \ \
> / / \ \
> \ \ / /
> \ \ ____________________ / /
> \ \ l------------------- /
> \ \ / /
> / \ / \
> / / \ \ ____________ / / \ \
> / / \ \ l----------- / \ \
> / / / \ / \ \ \
> / / / /\ \ / /\ \ \ \
> \ \_____/ / \ \ / / \ \_____/ /
> \________/ \ \________/ / \________/
> \__________/
>
>
>were attacked by some thugs. At the end of the encounter Delenn makes a
>statement in recognition of Marcus' telescoping quarterstaff, saying, "a
>Minbari Fighting <mumblemumble>, and old one." I found this bit of
>expository dialogue (explaining the origin of the staff) a bit clumsy, but
>rather than simply write some annoying commentary about it, I post the
>following, more humorous (I hope) tidbit.
the way that, were I Delenn, I would have torn Marcus a new ass for
escalating that fight - not picking it, but escalating it. It was
certainly grim when it started, but you simply do *NOT* deliberately
escalate fights when you are armed, or feel that one must be fought.
You either toss the thugs a $20 and say, "Buy the boys a round on me,"
or you pull out your telescoping quarterstaff or whatever and dispatch
them. None of this "You must have heard a lot with a face as ugly
as yours," pissing-contest crap. Maybe we were supposed to get the
impression that Marcus was a super stud in that scene, but I slapped my
forehead and said, "Marcus, SHUT UP!" to the screen when he said that.
That's not the mark of a confident fighter -- that's the mark of a
neopyhte, particularly when the fight isn't stragegically significant.
Jay Denebeim
Christine C. Raasch <raa...@nwu.edu> wrote:
>(Couldn't your spoiler script add the first four letters of the poster's
>name or some such to the title? Sorry, I'm whining again. I'll stop, I
>promise. :-)
That'd be even worse. If we did that, instead of fragmenting into
eight or so threads (that you can kill with one command), you'd end up
fragmenting into hundreds of threads.
Jay
--
Jay Denebeim dene...@deepthot.cary.nc.us
Moderator rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated
Jay Denebeim
Janis Maria C. C. Cortese <cor...@netcom.com> wrote:
>In article <4kdns6$17c...@kropotkin.kgb.tpc> car...@teleport.com (Chris Carter) writes:
>>Spoilers for Severed Dreams and Point of No Return eliminated and replaced
>>by spoilers for Matters of Honor...
>>
>> __________
>> / _________ \
>> / / \ \
>> ------------------------------------------------
>> / ______________________________________________ \
>> / / \ \
>> / / \ \
>> \ \ / /
>> \ \ ____________________ / /
>> \ \ l------------------- /
>> \ \ / /
>> / \ / \
>> / / \ \ ____________ / / \ \
>> / / \ \ l----------- / \ \
>> / / / \ / \ \ \
>> / / / /\ \ / /\ \ \ \
>> \ \_____/ / \ \ / / \ \_____/ /
>> \________/ \ \________/ / \________/
>> \__________/
>>
>>
>Maybe we were supposed to get the
>impression that Marcus was a super stud in that scene, but I slapped my
>forehead and said, "Marcus, SHUT UP!" to the screen when he said that.
>That's not the mark of a confident fighter -- that's the mark of a
>neopyhte, particularly when the fight isn't stragegically significant.
Well, as we find out this week, that is indeed the case. Marcus just
learned his skills in the past six months. So, his attitude of being
somewhat of a bully, and his cockyness is much more understandable
now.
ROY-Laurent Castellucci
> >by spoilers for Matters of Honor...and for Ceremonies of Light and Dark.
> >
> > __________
> > / _________ \
> > / / \ \
> > ------------------------------------------------
> > / ______________________________________________ \
> > / / \ \
> > / / \ \
> > \ \ / /
> > \ \ ____________________ / /
> > \ \ l------------------- /
> > \ \ / /
> > / \ / \
> > / / \ \ ____________ / / \ \
> > / / \ \ l----------- / \ \
> > / / / \ / \ \ \
> > / / / /\ \ / /\ \ \ \
> > \ \_____/ / \ \ / / \ \_____/ /
> > \________/ \ \________/ / \________/
> > \__________/
> >
> >
> >In MoH, there was a scene in DownBelow where Marcus, Delenn and Lennier
> >were attacked by some thugs. At the end of the encounter Delenn makes a
> >statement in recognition of Marcus' telescoping quarterstaff, saying, "a
> >Minbari Fighting <mumblemumble>, and old one." I found this bit of
> >expository dialogue (explaining the origin of the staff) a bit clumsy, but
> >rather than simply write some annoying commentary about it, I post the
> >following, more humorous (I hope) tidbit.
>
> This is interesting -- the thing that struck me about this scene was
> the way that, were I Delenn, I would have torn Marcus a new ass for
> escalating that fight - not picking it, but escalating it. It was
> certainly grim when it started, but you simply do *NOT* deliberately
> escalate fights when you are armed, or feel that one must be fought.
> You either toss the thugs a $20 and say, "Buy the boys a round on me,"
> or you pull out your telescoping quarterstaff or whatever and dispatch
> them. None of this "You must have heard a lot with a face as ugly
> as yours," pissing-contest crap. Maybe we were supposed to get the
> impression that Marcus was a super stud in that scene, but I slapped my
> forehead and said, "Marcus, SHUT UP!" to the screen when he said that.
> That's not the mark of a confident fighter -- that's the mark of a
> neopyhte, particularly when the fight isn't stragegically significant.
>
But if you've seen CoLaD you will have noticed that Marcus admits
to carrying around a lot of repressed anger. Marcus WANTS to escalate
fights. He's got a lot of guilt and pain and probably a bit of a death wish.
(Think about it, Marcus is looking for a fight he can't win. Lennier
wants to die to prove his love to Delenn (since he can never have her)
and Garibaldi just seems fated. Franklin has a drug problem. We could
see 4 players in this little drama off the screen by the end of the season.
Janis Maria C. C. Cortese
>In article <corteseD...@netcom.com>,
>Janis Maria C. C. Cortese <cor...@netcom.com> wrote:
>>In article <4kdns6$17c...@kropotkin.kgb.tpc> car...@teleport.com (Chris Carter) writes:
>>>Spoilers for Severed Dreams and Point of No Return eliminated and replaced
>>>by spoilers for Matters of Honor...
>and now spoilers for CoLaD
>
>>>
>>> / _________ \
>>> / / \ \
>>> ------------------------------------------------
>>> / ______________________________________________ \
>>> / / \ \
>>> / / \ \
>>> \ \ / /
>>> \ \ ____________________ / /
>>> \ \ l------------------- /
>>> \ \ / /
>>> / \ / \
>>> / / \ \ ____________ / / \ \
>>> / / \ \ l----------- / \ \
>>> / / / \ / \ \ \
>>> / / / /\ \ / /\ \ \ \
>>> \ \_____/ / \ \ / / \ \_____/ /
>>> \________/ \ \________/ / \________/
>>> \__________/
>>>
>>>
>>impression that Marcus was a super stud in that scene, but I slapped my
>>forehead and said, "Marcus, SHUT UP!" to the screen when he said that.
>>That's not the mark of a confident fighter -- that's the mark of a
>
>Well, as we find out this week, that is indeed the case. Marcus just
>learned his skills in the past six months. So, his attitude of being
>somewhat of a bully, and his cockyness is much more understandable
>now.
I'm not so much thinking bully as just thinking someone who hasn't quite
learned to wield his power economically yet. He struck me as a fairly
decent street punk "looking for more in life" who hasn't quite lost the
"I'm spoiling for a fight because it's a Friday night and I'm bored"
mentality. He can fight, but he needs to learn *when* to fight.
Shit, now I *really* want to see CoLaD!!!!!!
Dave Good
>On the topic of transforming television, I've had this hope for a while
>that the new technology (coming soon to a home near me :-) will totally
>transform the relationship between artists, viewers, networks, and
>advertisers, and here's my chance to ask an TV insider if he thinks any
>of this sort of stuff might be possible.
>In my ideal world, what was formerly TV operates like this:
> * Most TV is video on demand
[snip!]
> * I can, of course, put cash in my account, just like paying a cable
> bill every month (but at least I get to decide how much I want to
> spend). However, (and this is the really important part), I can also
> get money deposited in my account by watching (or interacting with)
> advertisments. If I choose to watch TV with ads, each ad that comes
> on during the program automagically deposits money in my account.
> I can also go watch pure commercial programs that I interact with
> (like market surveys, or game test drives, etc), and these programs
> pay me to watch them.
[snip!]
>Does any of this make sense? Can you see anything remotely like this ever
>happening? (There are a lot of rich and powerful industries that would be
>hurt by this, so I can imagine there would be a few obstacles :-).
There's one very big problem with this. The advertisers would never know
how much their advertising will cost them. It would be very hard to
predict how many people would see their ad, so it would be very difficult
to determine how much money to put in each person's account when they
watch. Small advertisers could potentially be bankrupted if the number of
viewers of their ad exceeds their expectations. With the way advertisements
work now, the ads are paid for in advance.
--
David Good dg...@rdatasys.com
+ By sending unsolicited commercially-oriented e-mail to this address, the +
+ sender agrees to pay a $100 flat fee to the recipient for proofreading +
+ services. +
Janis Maria C. C. Cortese
>On Tue, 9 Apr 1996, Janis Maria C. C. Cortese wrote:
>
>> >by spoilers for Matters of Honor...and for Ceremonies of Light and Dark.
>> >
>> > / _________ \
>> > / / \ \
>> > ------------------------------------------------
>> > / ______________________________________________ \
>> > / / \ \
>> > / / \ \
>> > \ \ / /
>> > \ \ ____________________ / /
>> > \ \ l------------------- /
>> > \ \ / /
>> > / \ / \
>> > / / \ \ ____________ / / \ \
>> > / / \ \ l----------- / \ \
>> > / / / \ / \ \ \
>> > / / / /\ \ / /\ \ \ \
>> > \ \_____/ / \ \ / / \ \_____/ /
>> > \________/ \ \________/ / \________/
>> > \__________/
>> >
>> >
>> the way that, were I Delenn, I would have torn Marcus a new ass for
>> escalating that fight - not picking it, but escalating it. It was
>> certainly grim when it started, but you simply do *NOT* deliberately
>> escalate fights when you are armed, or feel that one must be fought.
[etc.]
> But if you've seen CoLaD you will have noticed that Marcus admits
>to carrying around a lot of repressed anger.
WAAAAH!!! I haven't seen it! *sob*
>Marcus WANTS to escalate
>fights. He's got a lot of guilt and pain and probably a bit of a death wish.
NOT a good thing in a freedom fighter -- Patton sank that one with one
snide comment. The man was a bloody goddamned warmonger, but he *was*
good at what he did -- and when he said you don't win wars by dying, he
was right on the money.
This is strange, though -- I haven't seen that much of a repressed anger
thing with him, just some guilt and pain that I may have been inferring
more than anything, probably due to my own tendency to drool a bit over
lovely, tortured heroes. I'd imagine he would have been a lot more
pugilistic with Garibaldi, and perhaps snap at Ivanova a bit more.
Sure, he likes her -- but she's torn into him quite a few times without
a peep. If that anger ever gets out, it's going to be more than a *bit*
unpleasant since it's repressed so far. Repressing is like pushing a
beach ball into water -- the further down you push, the more it mess it
makes when it shoots up on you.
Shit, like *I* need to discuss THIS.
>(Think about it, Marcus is looking for a fight he can't win. Lennier
>wants to die to prove his love to Delenn (since he can never have her)
>and Garibaldi just seems fated. Franklin has a drug problem. We could
>see 4 players in this little drama off the screen by the end of the season.
I think possibly only two -- like I said, Marcus still needs to make the
Big Switch that all the other characters have done. This revelation you
hint to of Lennier's is big enough that his major switch has possibly
just been done -- bye-bye, Lennier. Marcus has only hinted at his past
-- not explained it. He's still got a major switch coming, like all the
rest.
(Also, from what I gather, Carter has been signed for 16 eps next
season, so I think he's safe for some time to come. Happily for the
women and gay guys in the audience!)
Jesse L. Fitzgerald
class. (Don't look at me funny. My prof's the one who said find a
popular TV show and analyze a recurrent, underlying theme and
compare it to another show of the same genre.)
First off, I'm a Star Wars fan. Star Trek is cool and all. But
I always said I'd take the Millenian(sp?) Falcon over the Enterprise
anyday. I used to have have arguments with friends over which was better
Star Wars or Trek. Trek always seemed a little hokey. Decent science
fiction but too full of Trek-no-babble (Chronoton particles?).
Anyway, kinda liked Generation and darn near died from joy when
DS9 we place before my Sci-Fi starved eyes. Yet when B5 started, I
laughed at it calling it "A cheap Startrek rip off."
Then I read the articles in the movie and entertainment mags and
found Paramount in deep need of a firing squad. With Voyager I wanted to
bring back public execution (I hate the show that much.).
I watched two or three first season episodes the first two I did
not like. i think I spent too much time picking on Londo's hair rather
than watching the show. Then I saw Walter Koenig's appearence as
"Bester". I thought the show was half-way decent. The episode that one
me over was the one where the real reason why the Minbari surrendered was
revealed.
Then my friends, the computer majors, started me on marathon
blitzes of previously recorded episodes. I then went on to the official
B5 home page at www.hyperion.com and have read all the episode
synopsis...all the episode reviews.
Now to my questions.
Spoiler Space: Next 14 Returns
Questions:
Where were Lyta and Kosh in the last episode?
Who was the now extinct race that Earth saved the League of
Non-Aligned worlds from?
Why haven't the Vorlons moved against the shadows yet? They
would know if the shadows were are on the move, right?
What was meant by the Minbari Grey council qoute: "The affairs of
others are not our concern." It sounded very Vorlon-esque.
Who will be Emporer first, Vir or Londo?
Why would any race give us interstellar technology? What kind of
trinkets did we give the Centari?
Why would we buy weapons from the Narn to do battle with the
Minbari? It's like trading your rocks for swords to battle someone
armed with an uzi.
Has anyone ever translated the book of G'Quon? Has anyone ever
translated anything written in Narn to Earth Standard?
What are the names of all the earth colonies?
How long a term is an Earth Alliance President elected for?
Does Earth still hold Olympic games?
What's up with the Kosh/Lyta/gill scene?
What exactly oes Zog mean? The episode gave it a negative
sounding tone.
If the Renegade Narn, Minbari and Earth fleets combined would
they have enough to dent the shadow forces?
I wonder if the Centari will manage to pinch in and help a little
bit in the coming fight?
Whose gonna die? My money's on Zack or Garibaldi.
That's it for now.
G'day
Jester
J.M.Egolf
Jay Denebeim <dene...@deepthot.cary.nc.us> wrote:
>>>Spoilers for Severed Dreams and Point of No Return eliminated and replaced
>>>by spoilers for Matters of Honor...
>and now spoilers for CoLaD
>
>>> __________
>>> / _________ \
>>> / / \ \
>>> ------------------------------------------------
>>> / ______________________________________________ \
>>> / / \ \
>>> / / \ \
>>> \ \ / /
>>> \ \ ____________________ / /
>>> \ \ l------------------- /
>>> \ \ / /
>>> / \ / \
>>> / / \ \ ____________ / / \ \
>>> / / \ \ l----------- / \ \
>>> / / / \ / \ \ \
>>> / / / /\ \ / /\ \ \ \
>>> \ \_____/ / \ \ / / \ \_____/ /
>>> \________/ \ \________/ / \________/
>>> \__________/
>>>
>>>
>>but I slapped my
>>forehead and said, "Marcus, SHUT UP!" to the screen when he said that.
>>That's not the mark of a confident fighter -- that's the mark of a
>
And Jay added:
>Well, as we find out this week, that is indeed the case. Marcus just
>learned his skills in the past six months. So, his attitude of being
>somewhat of a bully, and his cockyness is much more understandable
>now.
Or, as I commented while watching [mumble mumble] another episode, he's a
vigilante...
--
******************** ***************
J.M. ("Jamie") Egolf jeg...@mcs.com
<*> "We find meaning where we can." <*>
Derek Emehiser
>
> >My personal translation of this: "Dammit, there's still gonna be 9
> >gazillion posts per day I'll have to wade through!" :)
>
> Sorry, yeah, that's been the intent all along. Now, the good thing is
> that since we're automoderating, it should be possible to put keywords
> on the posts for people to select what they're interested in.
>
> Anyone interested in something like that? How would you like it to
> work?
>
> Jay
I thought that being a moderated newsgroup I could keep up with it but after a
few days I am going to have to go back to using the two-pass news reader and
only DL the subject lines that look interesting. It would help it you could
somehow preform a miracle and keep the subject lines on topic <G>
Thanks
Derek
Michael Scott Shappe
The Mermaid
[post eaten by a Pak'ma'ra ... said it tasted like
chicken]
>
> The welcome mat is out, the porch light is on, and there's lemonade over
> by the front rail. I hope you'll all sit for a while and hang out. Looks
> like it's gonna be a nice night....
>
> jms
>
Why, oh why, do those last few lines remind me so much
of a Stephen King novel?
Welcome back, JMS :)
-- The Mermaid
ROY-Laurent Castellucci
> >> >by spoilers for Matters of Honor...and for Ceremonies of Light and Dark.
> >> >
> >> > __________
> >> > / _________ \
> >> > / / \ \
> >> > ------------------------------------------------
> >> > / ______________________________________________ \
> >> > / / \ \
> >> > / / \ \
> >> > \ \ / /
> >> > \ \ ____________________ / /
> >> > \ \ l------------------- /
> >> > \ \ / /
> >> > / \ / \
> >> > / / \ \ ____________ / / \ \
> >> > / / \ \ l----------- / \ \
> >> > / / / \ / \ \ \
> >> > / / / /\ \ / /\ \ \ \
> >> > \ \_____/ / \ \ / / \ \_____/ /
> >> > \________/ \ \________/ / \________/
> >> > \__________/
> >> >
> >> >
> > But if you've seen CoLaD you will have noticed that Marcus admits
> >to carrying around a lot of repressed anger.
>
> WAAAAH!!! I haven't seen it! *sob*
>
But you are really piqued in curiousity now, eh? :)
> >Marcus WANTS to escalate
> >fights. He's got a lot of guilt and pain and probably a bit of a death wish.
>
> NOT a good thing in a freedom fighter -- Patton sank that one with one
> snide comment. The man was a bloody goddamned warmonger, but he *was*
> good at what he did -- and when he said you don't win wars by dying, he
> was right on the money.
>
Right on the money indeed. But we humans have always been
fascinated by tragic, tortured, lost cause fights.
> This is strange, though -- I haven't seen that much of a repressed anger
> thing with him, just some guilt and pain that I may have been inferring
> more than anything, probably due to my own tendency to drool a bit over
> lovely, tortured heroes. I'd imagine he would have been a lot more
> pugilistic with Garibaldi, and perhaps snap at Ivanova a bit more.
> Sure, he likes her -- but she's torn into him quite a few times without
> a peep. If that anger ever gets out, it's going to be more than a *bit*
> unpleasant since it's repressed so far. Repressing is like pushing a
> beach ball into water -- the further down you push, the more it mess it
> makes when it shoots up on you.
>
> Shit, like *I* need to discuss THIS.
But you are right on. and I think he's learning to not repress
it, but he still does it by lashing out at times. And you are rightm it
is not pretty to see.
>
> >(Think about it, Marcus is looking for a fight he can't win. Lennier
> >wants to die to prove his love to Delenn (since he can never have her)
> >and Garibaldi just seems fated. Franklin has a drug problem. We could
> >see 4 players in this little drama off the screen by the end of the season.
>
> I think possibly only two -- like I said, Marcus still needs to make the
> Big Switch that all the other characters have done. This revelation you
> hint to of Lennier's is big enough that his major switch has possibly
> just been done -- bye-bye, Lennier. Marcus has only hinted at his past
> -- not explained it. He's still got a major switch coming, like all the
> rest.
>
I tend to agree that Marcus needs more time , but depending on
how often he is focused on, that can be sooner or later. My votes right
now go to Lennier or Garibaldi to die, Franklin to leave, but someone
pointed out that the addict could be a relapse of Mr. Garibaldi into
alcoholism.
> (Also, from what I gather, Carter has been signed for 16 eps next
> season, so I think he's safe for some time to come. Happily for the
> women and gay guys in the audience!)
>
Hey, he has to offer a little eye candy for everyone, don't you
think? :)
LC
Innocent for Hire
Michael Scott Shappe
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
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Janis Maria Cortese said...
> Maybe we were supposed to get the impression that Marcus was a super stud
> in that scene, but I slapped my forehead and said, "Marcus, SHUT UP!" to
> the screen when he said that. That's not the mark of a confident fighter
> -- that's the mark of a neopyhte, particularly when the fight isn't
> stragegically significant.
Actually, I'm fairly sure that this was the whole point.
Marcus is NOT a confident fighter. Marcus is NOT even a True Believer.
Marcus is an Angry Young Man(tm), whose brother died for some insane,
noble cause and now he's left to pick up the pieces the only way he can.
My guess is that he's in this for two reasons: 1] he feels he has to
finish his brother's work, crazy as it was and 2] revenge. Being a Ranger
gives him the most likely vector of revenge against the ones who killed
his brother.
"My name is Marcus Cole. You killed my brother. Prepare to die." :-)
Hey, come to that, I wonder if JMS could get Mandy Patenkin(sp) to do a
guest shot...
Mikey
--
Michael Scott Shappe <msh...@jeeves.net>
<http://www.publiccom.com/web/mikey/>
Addicting the unsuspecting to the Net since 1987
Christopher E Stefan
>
>>The welcome mat is out, the porch light is on, and there's lemonade over
>>by the front rail. I hope you'll all sit for a while and hang out. Looks
>>like it's gonna be a nice night....
I lurked over in rastb5 for a while, unfortunately it had by that time
become, like most of usenet these days, quite the sewer. Glad to have
rastb5m, and glad to have JMS back. There are many, many, other
newsgroups I would like to see follow the same path.
OB B5:
"Severed Dreams"
WOW! Great episode! Great CGI! Best B5 I've seen. Blammo! hits right
between the eyes.
"Ceremonies of Light and Dark"
This was good too. Kind of hard to get used to the slower pace after
last week. Be interesting to see where some of the hanging plot
threads from this one go.
Keep up the good work JMS, can't wait to see what you pull out of your
hat next.
Kudos to KTZZ in Seattle for running Babylon 5 at a sane and
consistant time (8pm Thursday, 10pm Saturday), keep it up.
later,
--
Christopher E Stefan http://www.ironhorse.com/~flatline
System Administrator Home: (206) 706-0945
Ironhorse Software, Inc. Work: (206) 783-6636
flat...@ironhorse.com finger for PGP key
Craig Powers
I'm not jms, but I can offer some answers/comments to your questions.
**Spoilers for Severed Dreams**
**Microspoiler for MfE or PoNR, I think**
Spoilers begin NOW!!! Get out while you still can!
: Where were Lyta and Kosh in the last episode?
A most interesting question; the Great Maker has indicated that there
could be some fallout from this in the not-so-distant future.
: Who was the now extinct race that Earth saved the League of
: Non-Aligned worlds from?
I expect you are referring to the Dilgar, but I'm not sure.
: Why haven't the Vorlons moved against the shadows yet? They
: would know if the shadows were are on the move, right?
Another good one; see the answer to the first.
: What was meant by the Minbari Grey council qoute: "The affairs of
: others are not our concern." It sounded very Vorlon-esque.
It sounded more isolationist to me; a feeling that the Minbari can avoid
trouble by staying out of other people's trouble. I don't believe it
works very often.
: Who will be Emporer first, Vir or Londo?
This has not been answered, and since I expect it will be dealt with
further in the course of the arc, I don't expect it will be answered
until the appropriate episode or episodes air.
: Why would any race give us interstellar technology? What kind of
: trinkets did we give the Centari?
I don't know, but I suspect that Centauri were trying to make us indebted
to them and feel willing to be... shall we say, watched over... by them.
: Why would we buy weapons from the Narn to do battle with the
: Minbari? It's like trading your rocks for swords to battle someone
: armed with an uzi.
When, during the Earth-Minbari war? Actually, I suspect it would be more
on the order of buying crossbows to go along with your bow and arrow (still
fighting the Uzi) or vice versa.
: Has anyone ever translated the book of G'Quon? Has anyone ever
: translated anything written in Narn to Earth Standard?
If it has been translated, it certainly wasn't an authorized translation.
In one of the big three (MfE or PoNR, if I recall correctly), G'Kar told
Garibaldi that it would be sacrilege to translate it.
: What's up with the Kosh/Lyta/gill scene?
I think a lot of other people have wondered the same thing. I expect it
will be brought up in a future episode.
: If the Renegade Narn, Minbari and Earth fleets combined would
: they have enough to dent the shadow forces?
When you consider that the renegade Earth fleet doesn't have enough to
beat the main Earth fleet and that the renegade Narn fleet consists of
a single cruiser on the run, I think they would be slaughtered in a
straight battle against the Shadows. Somehow, I don't think that is the
way the Shadow War will be won.
--
Craig Powers NU ChE class of '98
cpo...@lynx.dac.neu.edu
eni...@coe.neu.edu http://www.coe.neu.edu/~enigma
Smokey the Bear reminds you: Only *YOU* can prevent newsgroup fires!
John Bedard
>
> >In article <4juoqb$o...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, jms...@aol.com says...
> >
> >>The welcome mat is out, the porch light is on, and there's lemonade over
> >>by the front rail. I hope you'll all sit for a while and hang out. Looks
> >>like it's gonna be a nice night....
>
> I lurked over in rastb5 for a while, unfortunately it had by that time
> become, like most of usenet these days, quite the sewer. Glad to have
> rastb5m, and glad to have JMS back. There are many, many, other
> newsgroups I would like to see follow the same path.
<snip>
At the risk of looking like a newbie, is JMS really here? I see a lot of questions for him,
but no replies. Or, is he just replying via e-mail to each person?
Of course, I just jumped in here yesterday (didn't know the group was up so soon),
and it's such a relief from the toilet rastb5 and the sterile rastb5i.
JMS, if you're here, as far as what everyone is saying about Dreams, I have only one
comment:
"ditto"
Pardon me while I go watch it for the 12th or so time...
John
(anticipating Ceremonies tomorrow...)
BDerb
David Kauffman
: At the risk of looking like a newbie, is JMS really here? I see a lot of
: questions for him, but no replies. Or, is he just replying via e-mail to
: each person? Of course, I just jumped in here yesterday (didn't know the
: group was up so soon), and it's such a relief from the toilet rastb5 and
: the sterile rastb5i.
:
: JMS, if you're here, as far as what everyone is saying about Dreams, I have
: only one comment:
:
: "ditto"
:
: Pardon me while I go watch it for the 12th or so time...
:
: John
: (anticipating Ceremonies tomorrow...)
:
It's true, jms is really here. That's his message, the one at the
beginning of this thread, with the id of jms...@aol.com. Obviously
he doesn't have as much time to spend here as some do, but we're not
going to complain about that, are we? <g>
--
###################################################################
"Remember, no matter where you go, there you are." - B.B.
"We were there, at the dawn of the Third Age of Mankind." - jms
Go, Rams! Opportunity+Action=Success
"Hey, Tagliabue, Ram this!!" St. Louis: Gateway to the East
Climbing my Family Tree: Kauffman*Knese*LaPlante*Graef*Oliver*Vens*
*Lance*Fahle*Langelier*Walz*Young*Schmidt*Monette*Leriger*Cloutier*
cybe...@cris.com Home Page: http://www.cris.com/~cyberdad/
###################################################################
Roger Stenning
SPOILER SPACE RE SEASON 3+
10
9
8
7
6
5
4
3
2
1
> (Also, from what I gather, Carter has been signed for 16 eps next
> season, so I think he's safe for some time to come. Happily for the
> women and gay guys in the audience!)
^^^^^^
YOW! Have you seen the pics of his WIFE!? Scorcher par excellence!
Lucky dog!
______________________________________________________
Cheers,<*> (umtsb5/1413)
Roger,(S. London)
"Don't think of it as being outnumbered, pessimist:
Think of it as a wide target choice, instead"
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/roger_isg/
______________________________________________________
Edwin Yoo
> On Wed, 10 Apr 1996, Janis Maria C. C. Cortese wrote:
> > >> >by spoilers for Matters of Honor...and for Ceremonies of Light and Dark.
> > >> >
> > >> > __________
> > >> > / _________ \
> > >> > / / \ \
> > >> > ------------------------------------------------
> > >> > / ______________________________________________ \
> > >> > / / \ \
> > >> > / / \ \
> > >> > \ \ / /
> > >> > \ \ ____________________ / /
> > >> > \ \ l------------------- /
> > >> > \ \ / /
> > >> > / \ / \
> > >> > / / \ \ ____________ / / \ \
> > >> > / / \ \ l----------- / \ \
> > >> > / / / \ / \ \ \
> > >> > / / / /\ \ / /\ \ \ \
> > >> > \ \_____/ / \ \ / / \ \_____/ /
> > >> > \________/ \ \________/ / \________/
> > >> > \__________/
> > >> >
> > >> >
> how often he is focused on, that can be sooner or later. My votes right
> now go to Lennier or Garibaldi to die, Franklin to leave, but someone
> pointed out that the addict could be a relapse of Mr. Garibaldi into
> alcoholism.
NO NO NO NO NO NO
DO NOT KILL GARIBALDI!!!!!!!
NO NO NO NO NO
--
John Bedard
>
> John Bedard (joh...@tde.com) wrote:
>
> : At the risk of looking like a newbie, is JMS really here? I see a lot of
> : questions for him, but no replies. Or, is he just replying via e-mail to
> : each person? Of course, I just jumped in here yesterday (didn't know the
> : group was up so soon), and it's such a relief from the toilet rastb5 and
> : the sterile rastb5i.
> :
> : JMS, if you're here, as far as what everyone is saying about Dreams, I have
> : only one comment:
> :
> : "ditto"
> :
> : Pardon me while I go watch it for the 12th or so time...
> :
> : John
> : (anticipating Ceremonies tomorrow...)
> :
> It's true, jms is really here. That's his message, the one at the
> beginning of this thread, with the id of jms...@aol.com. Obviously
> he doesn't have as much time to spend here as some do, but we're not
> going to complain about that, are we? <g>
>
> --
Well, I guess what I meant is what level of involvment does jms have here...
I realize the Guy's busy as heck, but I was expecting more, like before He bailed out of
rastb5. I used to cruise through rastb5 looking specifically for His name in the sender
field and then read the beginning of the thread, then His reply.
More often than not, "ATTN JMS:" messages are responded to by a moderator. Is that
also their job?
John
Kenneth Freeman
Note that Marcus touches Lennier twice. The first time he got called on
it. The second time he was headed for the awakening thug and he slapped
Lennier on the shoulder. It's not his derring-do or any guilt that'll
blow up in his face: it'll be some innocuous act that'll flip off the
Minbari big-time.
: > This is strange, though -- I haven't seen that much of a repressed anger
: > thing with him, just some guilt and pain that I may have been inferring
: > more than anything, probably due to my own tendency to drool a bit over
: > lovely, tortured heroes. I'd imagine he would have been a lot more
: > pugilistic with Garibaldi, and perhaps snap at Ivanova a bit more.
Nah, he does everything with a flourish as is. That kind of cheerfulness
is an almost manic defense; it covers, and points to, much pain within.
: > Sure, he likes her -- but she's torn into him quite a few times without
: > a peep. If that anger ever gets out, it's going to be more than a *bit*
: > unpleasant since it's repressed so far. Repressing is like pushing a
: > beach ball into water -- the further down you push, the more it mess it
: > makes when it shoots up on you.
: > Shit, like *I* need to discuss THIS.
: But you are right on. and I think he's learning to not repress
: it, but he still does it by lashing out at times. And you are rightm it
: is not pretty to see.
: >
: > >(Think about it, Marcus is looking for a fight he can't win. Lennier
: > >wants to die to prove his love to Delenn (since he can never have her)
: > >and Garibaldi just seems fated. Franklin has a drug problem. We could
: > >see 4 players in this little drama off the screen by the end of the season.
I'd say two of the four. Lennier, albeit not for the supposed
sacrificial reason, and Garibaldi uncorked one way or the other.
: > I think possibly only two -- like I said, Marcus still needs to make the
: > Big Switch that all the other characters have done. This revelation you
: > hint to of Lennier's is big enough that his major switch has possibly
: > just been done -- bye-bye, Lennier. Marcus has only hinted at his past
: > -- not explained it. He's still got a major switch coming, like all the
: > rest.
: >
: I tend to agree that Marcus needs more time , but depending on
: how often he is focused on, that can be sooner or later. My votes right
: now go to Lennier or Garibaldi to die, Franklin to leave, but someone
: pointed out that the addict could be a relapse of Mr. Garibaldi into
: alcoholism.
: > (Also, from what I gather, Carter has been signed for 16 eps next
: > season, so I think he's safe for some time to come. Happily for the
: > women and gay guys in the audience!)
: >
: Hey, he has to offer a little eye candy for everyone, don't you
: think? :)
Well, there's always Vir.
Demetrius W. Burlingkopf
>Marcus is NOT a confident fighter. Marcus is NOT even a True Believer.
>Marcus is an Angry Young Man(tm), whose brother died for some insane,
>noble cause and now he's left to pick up the pieces the only way he can.
>My guess is that he's in this for two reasons: 1] he feels he has to
>finish his brother's work, crazy as it was and 2] revenge. Being a Ranger
>gives him the most likely vector of revenge against the ones who killed
>his brother.
And don't forget 3] He's looking for a reason/cause to die for since
he's lost everything he felt made living worthwhile. It's kinda like
Sinclair and Garibaldi's scene where Garibaldi tells Sinclair that
he's putting himself at undue risk because he has an unconscious death
wish.
Once part of the heart goes dead, much of the reason for living goes
with it.
0
0 0 Ladc...@ix.netcom.com
// Demetrius W. Burlingkopf
_ //_________________________________________________
(_)========< _________________________________________________>
\\ Shadow Players
\\ Stage Combat Group
0 0 "Potest esse nur unus"
0
Janis Maria C. C. Cortese
I think the attributions are totally munged on this one --
In article <4ksr6u$i...@news3.cts.com> ke...@sd.cts.com (Kenneth Freeman) writes:
>ROY-Laurent Castellucci (cas...@IRCM.UMontreal.CA) wrote:
>: On Wed, 10 Apr 1996, Janis Maria C. C. Cortese wrote:
Spoilers ho:
>: > > But if you've seen CoLaD you will have noticed that Marcus admits
>: > >to carrying around a lot of repressed anger.
>: >
>: > WAAAAH!!! I haven't seen it! *sob*
>: >
>:But you are really piqued in curiousity now, eh? :)
Thankfully, I finally saw it.
>Note that Marcus touches Lennier twice. The first time he got called on
>it. The second time he was headed for the awakening thug and he slapped
>Lennier on the shoulder. It's not his derring-do or any guilt that'll
>blow up in his face: it'll be some innocuous act that'll flip off the
>Minbari big-time.
Probably something where he simply doesn't think of the consequences of
his actions. He's still thinking of himself as alone, which isn't
helping. He has to realize that he has links to the people around him
despite what he thinks, and that his actions *will* have consequences
for them. I agree with you, though -- whatever and however he slips up,
it's going to be one of those, "Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't think," sorts of
things.
JMS has said that Marcus is interesting to write because he has no
responsibilities to those around him. He *thinks* he doesn't, but he
most certainly does, and he's got to realize it. It's interesting that
the character behaves as if he has no ties to others, and that this is
the same thing he beats himself up over regards not listening to his
brother. "Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't think." He's got to make that
shift.
>: > This is strange, though -- I haven't seen that much of a repressed anger
>: > thing with him, just some guilt and pain that I may have been inferring
>: > more than anything, probably due to my own tendency to drool a bit over
>: > lovely, tortured heroes. I'd imagine he would have been a lot more
>: > pugilistic with Garibaldi, and perhaps snap at Ivanova a bit more.
>
>Nah, he does everything with a flourish as is. That kind of cheerfulness
>is an almost manic defense; it covers, and points to, much pain within.
Check.
>: I tend to agree that Marcus needs more time , but depending on
>: how often he is focused on, that can be sooner or later. My votes right
>: now go to Lennier or Garibaldi to die, Franklin to leave, but someone
>: pointed out that the addict could be a relapse of Mr. Garibaldi into
>: alcoholism.
I'm pretty sure it's going to be Franklin. Garibaldi has done a good
chunk of character work regards his alcoholism -- Franklin is next up on
the chopping block.
>: > (Also, from what I gather, Carter has been signed for 16 eps next
>: > season, so I think he's safe for some time to come. Happily for the
>: > women and gay guys in the audience!)
>: >
>: Hey, he has to offer a little eye candy for everyone, don't you
>: think? :)
DEF-initely.
>Well, there's always Vir.
*rim shot*,
Janis
================================<*>=================================
cor...@netcom.com http://www.io.com/~cortese/
Homepage includes Feminism, Lefthanders, and Second Amendment Links!
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Patricia A. Swan
Actually, he doesn't touch him that second time. I went back and
rewatched that section of tape a couple of times just to double
check it. It's just the camera angle as he brings his hand down,
probably to the seat he is sitting on or to his thighs to push
up. He's probably begun stiffening up from over-used muscles by
that point.
Take care,
Herm Perez
>of B5 to an obsessed fan and am now doing a paper on B5 for my Rhetoric
>class. (Don't look at me funny. My prof's the one who said find a
>popular TV show
major snip
> Now to my questions.
> Spoiler Space: Next 14 Returns
>Questions:
> Where were Lyta and Kosh in the last episode?
its not known, Lyta was probably on an errand for Kosh and it was
probably back on the homeworld..otherwise it should have intervened in
the battles..then again Vorlons are inscrutable.
> Who was the now extinct race that Earth saved the League of
>Non-Aligned worlds from?
there was a race that got wiped out by a disease (Markabs?), and most
of the "First Ones" have passed beyond the veil (supposedly outside
the galactic rim, put perhaps its a more subtle thing), the remaining
ones are the Tiki gods, the Vorlons and the Shadows..
> Why haven't the Vorlons moved against the shadows yet? They
>would know if the shadows were are on the move, right?
Its not known, probably will be revelaed by the end of the season..
> What was meant by the Minbari Grey council qoute: "The affairs of
>others are not our concern." It sounded very Vorlon-esque.
Its an isolationist thing..they dont want to help any alien races,
they (some) do not want to get involved.
> Who will be Emporer first, Vir or Londo?
IMO, Londo will be Emperor over a destroyed Centauri Republic..a very
bitter thing for him..then after he dies, Vir becomes Emperor by
default..since all the other aristocratic Centauris have been eaten by
the Shadows...but it would be a shame to lose Londo so JMS will
probably kill the gentle Vir after it looks like he is going to bring
the Republic around to the side of Light.
> Why would any race give us interstellar technology? What kind of
>trinkets did we give the Centari?
Money?..I heard they got historical artifacts and records..thats why
they dress in 18-19th century european fashion. Perhaps they wanted to
buy the friendship of the Earthers?..anyways before too long some
other race would have sold the tech to Earth. Probably the same reason
we give aid to third world countries..out of charity and to extend our
influence.
> Why would we buy weapons from the Narn to do battle with the
>Minbari? It's like trading your rocks for swords to battle someone
>armed with an uzi.
the Narns had advanced arms, and a desire to make money..supply and
demand.
> Has anyone ever translated the book of G'Quon? Has anyone ever
>translated anything written in Narn to Earth Standard?
Nope...Garibaldi is trying to learn how to read it..
> What are the names of all the earth colonies?
> How long a term is an Earth Alliance President elected for?
> Does Earth still hold Olympic games?
> What's up with the Kosh/Lyta/gill scene?
It is believed that Lyta was "modified" to:
a> be able to breathe the atmosphere of the Vorlon homeworld
b> be able to become a Vorlon shell..
> What exactly oes Zog mean? The episode gave it a negative
>sounding tone.
Its not known..probably not translatable..
> If the Renegade Narn, Minbari and Earth fleets combined would
>they have enough to dent the shadow forces?
Nope, JMS says it will not be one huge battle (a la Star Wars) but
instead the Alliance will find the achiles heel of the
Shadows..probably involving souls and telepathy, IMO.
> I wonder if the Centari will manage to pinch in and help a little
>bit in the coming fight?
they will feed the Shadows..hope they get indigestion..
> Whose gonna die? My money's on Zack or Garibaldi.
Ivanova
> That's it for now.
> G'day
>
> Jester
Herm
Liberals : "10 % to the left of centre on a good day, 10 % to the right of
centre when it affects them personally" - Phil Ochs RIP, US Folk Singer
sig stolen from Rich Thomas..
Francis A. Ney, Jr.
>
> On Wed, 10 Apr 1996, Janis Maria C. C. Cortese wrote:
>
> SPOILER SPACE RE SEASON 3+
>
> 10
>
> 9
>
> 8
>
> 7
>
> 6
>
> 5
>
> 4
>
> 3
>
> 2
>
> 1
>
> YOW! Have you seen the pics of his WIFE!? Scorcher par excellence!
> Lucky dog!
Where can I find said pics?
> "Don't think of it as being outnumbered, pessimist:
> Think of it as a wide target choice, instead"
I thought that was "Think of it as a target-rich environment."
---
Frank Ney WV/EMT-B VA/EMT-A N4ZHG LPWV NRA(L) GOA CCRKBA JPFO
Sponsor, BATF Abuse page http://www.access.digex.net/~croaker/batfabus.html
West Virginia Coordinator, Libertarian Second Amendment Caucus
"[E]lections amount to no more than choosing between the scum that floats to
the top of the barrel and the dregs that settle to the bottom."
- L. Neil Smith
Janis Maria C. C. Cortese
>
>by spoilers for Matters of Honor...and for Ceremonies of Light and Dark.
Minor spoilers ho:
>Actually, he doesn't touch him that second time. I went back and
>rewatched that section of tape a couple of times just to double
>check it. It's just the camera angle as he brings his hand down,
>probably to the seat he is sitting on or to his thighs to push
>up. He's probably begun stiffening up from over-used muscles by
^^^^ ^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^ ^^ ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^ ^^
>that point.
^^^^ ^^^^^
I'm holding my tongue. Really. I am. I'm *NOT* going to respond to
this.
*opens yap*
Thee? I'ng hodink ny tunge.
Take care,
Dave Weinberg
>j_fi...@oz.plymouth.edu (Jesse L. Fitzgerald) wrote:
>>of B5 to an obsessed fan and am now doing a paper on B5 for my Rhetoric
>>class. (Don't look at me funny. My prof's the one who said find a
>>popular TV show
>major snip
>> Now to my questions.
>> Spoiler Space: Next 14 Returns
>>Questions:
>> Why would any race give us interstellar technology? What kind of
>>trinkets did we give the Centari?
>Money?..I heard they got historical artifacts and records..thats why
>they dress in 18-19th century european fashion. Perhaps they wanted to
>buy the friendship of the Earthers?..anyways before too long some
>other race would have sold the tech to Earth. Probably the same reason
>we give aid to third world countries..out of charity and to extend our
>influence.
Somewhere I read (don't remember if it was at "Lurker's" or not) That
the Centari thought, or tried to lead us to believe, that we were a
long-lost Centari colony world, and tried to "bring us into the fold,"
but failed when biologists (or somesuch) found that there wasn't a
snowball's chance that we were even remotely related.
Dave
<*>
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Dave & Manda |
dwei...@lynx.neu.edu | http://www.magna.com.ay/~slade/manda1.htmtml
sl...@magna.com.au | http://lynx.neu.edu:8000/~dweinber/daves.html
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