ATTN JMS:"Next Two Weeks are going to be Critical..."
Gropo
On January 30, in an email titled
"Quickie from JMS" you posted this concerning TMoS:
"I'd say that the next two weeks are going to be critical for the
future of
TMoS. There have been a variety of conversations about a variety of
things and
people, and some offers are starting to go out to various
individuals...so we
shall see what we shall see."
We out in the hinterlands haven't seen or heard anything, even though 3
weeks have passed. Can you say if things go well or not?
Moyra J. Bligh
To quote Mira Furlan at VisionCon in Missouri this past weekend, "It's
dead".
--
Moyra J. Bligh - mo...@zlatna.com
FAQ maintainer - alt.fan.mira-furlan http://www.zlatna.com/MFfaq.html
moderator mira-f mailing list - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mira-f/
===============================================================
Mira Furlan & Goran Gajic - come join The Celebration
http://www.zlatna.com/gold.html
===============================================================
krueg...@hotmail.com
Moyra J. Bligh wrote:
> >
> >We out in the hinterlands haven't seen or heard anything, even
though 3
> >weeks have passed. Can you say if things go well or not?
>
> To quote Mira Furlan at VisionCon in Missouri this past weekend,
"It's
> dead".
What? When she said this, was she referring to her appearing in TMoS?
Or are you saying she's basically claimed publicly that the entire
project is a no-go?
Moyra J. Bligh
wrote:
Mira was talking about the entire movie.
Thunder, Agent '005
t.k.
Oron Port
> On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 04:02:02 +0000 (UTC), krueg...@hotmail.com
> wrote:
>
>
>>Moyra J. Bligh wrote:
>>
>>>>We out in the hinterlands haven't seen or heard anything, even
>>
>>though 3
>>
>>>>weeks have passed. Can you say if things go well or not?
>>>
>>>To quote Mira Furlan at VisionCon in Missouri this past weekend,
>>>"It's dead".
>>
>>What? When she said this, was she referring to her appearing in TMoS?
>>Or are you saying she's basically claimed publicly that the entire
>>project is a no-go?
>
>
> Mira was talking about the entire movie.
>
This is news (to me). DAMN!!!
Oron
Arlen Roy Kundert
recasted.
There's only one John J. Sheridan, one G'Kar, one Delenn, ect.
If it's put on "ice" for a time, so be it. To quote JMS: "...Simply
put...I'm in no hurry. I'd rather get it right than get it done on
Tuesday." http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/guide/116.html
Moyra J. Bligh
<arkofth...@juno.com> wrote:
>> Mira was talking about the entire movie.
>Speaking for ONLY myself, I'd rather see it not happen at all than be
>recasted.
It wasn't being recast - that's how Mira knows it's dead.
>There's only one John J. Sheridan, one G'Kar, one Delenn, ect.
--
LK
<mo...@zlatna.com> wrote:
>On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 16:41:45 +0000 (UTC), "Gropo"
><ve...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>>Fearless leader,
>>
>>On January 30, in an email titled
>>"Quickie from JMS" you posted this concerning TMoS:
>>
>>"I'd say that the next two weeks are going to be critical for the
>>future of
>>TMoS. There have been a variety of conversations about a variety of
>>things and
>>people, and some offers are starting to go out to various
>>individuals...so we
>>shall see what we shall see."
>>
>>
>>We out in the hinterlands haven't seen or heard anything, even though 3
>>weeks have passed. Can you say if things go well or not?
>
>To quote Mira Furlan at VisionCon in Missouri this past weekend, "It's
>dead".
There is a dignity in something being dead for the right reasons.
LK
DJK
(Rangers,Drahk,Teep War) in novel form. I loved the first trilogies and
would love to see more of the story on the bigscreen, little screen, or in
book form. Heck, the books let you add more development anyway.
Both Thirdspace and In the Beginning novels had a LOT more info than the
movies.
Mac Breck
news:YTfTd.492054$Xk.280397@pd7tw3no...
Figures. Guess the studio wouldn't budge on recasting. Still, it's
better dead than recast. Maybe we'll get it in novels in 10 or 20
years.
--
Mac Breck (KoshN) - from the desktop PC
-------------------------------
"Babylon 5: Crusade" (1999)
Gideon: I thought you said you don't hold a grudge.
Galen: I don't. I have no surviving enemies... at all.
"Brimstone" (1998)
The Devil: Nobody beats the Devil. Are you listening? Did you hear what
I said, Mr. Stone? Nobody beats the Devil.
Ezekiel Stone: So you keep telling me. <enjoying his Reggie Bar> Go to
Hell...<smiles and pushes the Down button on the elevator> ...please.
Chris Kocher
> On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 13:40:38 +0000 (UTC), "Arlen Roy Kundert"
> <arkofth...@juno.com> wrote:
>
>>Speaking for ONLY myself, I'd rather see it not happen at all than be
>>recasted.
>
>
> It wasn't being recast - that's how Mira knows it's dead.
Hmmmm... *very* interesting. So all the recasting frenzy around here...
for what?
Thanks very much for the info, even if it's not what we'd necessarily
want to hear about the movie (i.e., it's dead).
Chris
Methuselah Jones
Moyra J. Bligh of rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated make plain:
> To quote Mira Furlan at VisionCon in Missouri this past weekend, "It's
> dead".
"There's a big difference between mostly dead and all dead." (Miracle Max,
"The Princess Bride")
No offense to Mira, but I'll wait until we hear the details from JMS until
I sing any funeral dirges. Maybe it's just mostly dead.
--
Methuselah
"I never met a lasagna I didn't like."
-- Garfield
Andrew Swallow
[snip]
> No offense to Mira, but I'll wait until we hear the details from JMS until
> I sing any funeral dirges. Maybe it's just mostly dead.
>
may be obtained cheaply.
The script may reappear as a "Movie of the Week" or straight to DVD. It
is time to see if Pay for Download works.
Note: I purchased the 3 Babylon 5 MoW on Monday. The set was second in
the tv chart of the British nationwide newsagent W H Smiths. This
placing was on the advance orders. Season 5 has dropped from 2nd down
to 10th place.
Andrew Swallow
Rob Perkins
> If Warner Brothers have decided not to make a movie then the film rights
> may be obtained cheaply.
...unless, like so many other things B5 which have died, the
rights-owners decide that no price is high enough. In spite of
deep-seated interest in a BSG feature film, for example, Universal never
sold the rights to anyone, including Richard Hatch.
Rob
Vorlonagent
news:71pTd.27539$vK5....@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
A problem I've noticed with the B5 Universe is that it doesn't seem to
travel well.
"Travel" in the sense of transferring to a new cast of characters. It seems
like a lot of the mythic power of the B5 universe is locked up in the core
characters of B5 itself.
Call to Arms did well, but then Sheridan was in the captain's chair too.
Crusade started marignal, got better, but was still just starting to find
its feet.
Then there's "Legend of the Rangers"...
If I were a Suit, I would be very concerned about a B5 movie that didn't
involve the primary cast of B5.
But then as a Suit, I would be discounting JMS as a writer.
--
John Trauger,
Vorlonagent
"Methane martini.
Shaken, not stirred."
"The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common.
Instead of altering their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to
fit their views
....which can be very uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that
needs altering."
-The Doctor
Ian Galbraith
<j...@otfresno.com> wrote:
[snip]
>A problem I've noticed with the B5 Universe is that it doesn't seem to
>travel well.
>"Travel" in the sense of transferring to a new cast of characters. It seems
>like a lot of the mythic power of the B5 universe is locked up in the core
>characters of B5 itself.
Not IMHO, the power is in JMS's writing. If TMOS has been axed as a
result of recasting what sounded like essentially cameo roles for
original cast members then its a damn shame IMHO.
>Call to Arms did well, but then Sheridan was in the captain's chair too.
>Crusade started marignal, got better, but was still just starting to find
>its feet.
Crusade was only marginal due to TNT's interference, the original
episodes are great.
[snip]
Vorlonagent
"Ian Galbraith" <igalb...@ozonline.com.au> wrote in message
news:in1t11l39o72abt50...@4ax.com...
I'd have to disagree. Crusade has two batches of episodes, one good, one
not so.
The earlier episodes (by episode number) tend to be the more questionable to
me and the later ones tend to be the better ones, which suggests that TNT
did Crusade a favor by interveneing, even if some of the things TNT wanted
were outright silly and stupid. JMS was right to stand firm on most of the
things he opposed.
The result was we got the best of both worlds...and then the show was
cancelled.
Lee Jamilkowski
I'm sure this means there's an interesting story or two that JMS will
have to relate to us at some future point.
Lee
"Moyra J. Bligh" <mo...@zlatna.com> wrote in message
news:3qkq11dthrcecoroh...@4ax.com...
Moyra J. Bligh
<methu...@altgeek.org> wrote:
>"There's a big difference between mostly dead and all dead." (Miracle Max,
>"The Princess Bride")
>
>No offense to Mira, but I'll wait until we hear the details from JMS until
>I sing any funeral dirges. Maybe it's just mostly dead.
I've transcribed the relevant piece of her Q&A session.
======================================================================
"And then I don't know if you know that there was a movie that was
going to happen, a Babylon 5 movie and that there were all kinds of
things that were happening around that.... And finally, no movie! No
movie....
But, maybe it will resurface again ... I'm sure it will, 'cause it's
somehow... it's floating around, that idea and I think it's going to
happen in some other reincarnation, that particular one it won't.
So, um...
It was supposed to be a, well, a reunion, which as I say is never
going to be a real one."[1]
======================================================================
[1] she had been talking earlier about the deaths of Rick Biggs and
Tim Choate and how no Babylon 5 cast reunion would ever be the same
again.
Mac Breck
news:q-udnYPjvOG...@sti.net...
You have GOT to be kidding. TNT was right only about the uniforms, but
they were wrong about imposing that uniform change mid-season. If they
were going to insist upon a uniform change in the first season, they
should have anted up for reshooting the first five episodes with the new
uniforms.
Production Order:
Grey/Red Uniform Episodes
101 The Needs of Earth
102 The Memory of War
103 Racing the Night
104 Visitors from Down the Street
105 Each Night I Dream of Home
Of the first five, the only weak one was 105, but still, it had a lot of
great dialogue.
The first production shutdown.
Black Uniform Episodes:
106 The Well of Forever
107 The Long Road
108 War Zone
109 The Path of Sorrows
110 Patterns of the Soul
111 Ruling from the Tomb
112 The Rules of the Game
113 Appearances and Other Deceits
Of the last eight, the weak ones were 108 and 111.
> even if some of the things TNT wanted
> were outright silly and stupid. JMS was right to stand firm on most
of the
> things he opposed.
>
> The result was we got the best of both worlds...and then the show was
> cancelled.
What we got was a Humpty-Dumpty puzzle, a mish-mash of good and bad
that's impossible to put together correctly, because TNT didn't have the
balls or sense to do it right.
Andrew Swallow
put his own people into the show. This is a traditional way of
consolidating power. However this does not apply to an independent
producer, they need every bit of help that they can get. The star’s
fans are a major aid.
NEW BABYLON 5 PRODUCTION LIMITED (id = 05155023) was probably a £100
(approx $200) company. Is it not up for sale?
I bid £110.00
Andrew Swallow
jms...@aol.com
is taking a while to move through the system. So this info will repeat
soonish on another subject.
jms
-----------------------------------------------
The rule of thumb in Hollywood is that for every thousand scripts that
get written, only a few dozen get into development, and out of those,
only one will ever get made...if that.
A little over a year ago, I was approached by a company that wanted to
make a Babylon 5 movie. They optioned the rights, and commissioned a
script. (It's worth mentioning that I, not WB, own the rights to a B5
movie. When we were negotiating the original B5 deal -- by whose terms
I will never see a dime in profit -- the one thing they did let me have
were the movie rights, figuring they'd never be worth anything in the
long run.)
Anyway...on December 27th of 2003, the script for "The Memory of
Shadows" was turned in, and the process began of trying to make the
deal work with all the various forces involved. It is, to say the
least, a very difficult process on any movie where the studio does not
directly take the financial reins. In terms of B5, Warner's position
was esssentially, "We only do big-budget movies with big names, so
you're on your own." If there were big-name movie actors in the film,
they'd get behind it; without that, things become very problematic,
especially as far as the financing was concerned. You much have to put
together a consortium of international interests and business plans
rivaled in complexity only by the Allied invasion of Normandy Beach.
Nonetheless, every attempt was made by the people involved to get this
deal in place. This was not being done by Doug or myself, but rather
by the company/individuals who approached us and optioned the rights.
At times, it seemed we were inches away from a deal...stages were
reserved at Elstree, actors were contacted, a director was in place,
the script went through many revisions, a few key staff were hired,
again not by me...it was really a year-long roller coaster ride.
During that time, the people involved, with every good intention, tried
very hard to pull the necessary pieces together on the deal. The
option expired in late December 2004, but I renewed it without cost, to
give those involved more time to try and make things work.
In the end, however, the deal could not be put together, and it did not
look as if that was going to change at any point in the foreseeable
future. So the option has reverted, and to all intents and purposes,
the project has dead ended. Nor do I think this particular incarnation
will arise again at any point in the future, though prognostication has
always been a tricky art, especially if you have to do it without the
benefit of hindsight.
This was not the first time someone's taken a run at a B5 feature film,
and it will not be the last. Eventually it will happen, because such
things are simply inevitable. If they can do a Brady Bunch movie, you
can be sure that sooner or later, somebody's going to do a B5 movie.
The only thing I can say without equivocation is that when that day
comes, as the rights-holder, I will make darned sure that it's done
right, because I'd rather have no B5 movie than one that doesn't live
up to what fans and I myself would want to see.
To that end...I can wait.
Anyway, just thought you should know the story.
jms
copyright (c) 2005 by
Synthetic Worlds, Ltd.
Reprint permission specifically
denied to SFX Magazine
Mac Breck
news:1109376591.7...@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Could you approach another, perhaps more sci-fi friendly, studio, e.g.
Universal (FIREFLY) and Fox (SW) and even Paramount (ST), or is that
just not how things are done?
--
Mac Breck (KoshN) - from the desktop PC
-------------------------------
"Babylon 5: Crusade" (1999)
Gideon: I thought you said you don't hold a grudge.
Galen: I don't. I have no surviving enemies... at all.
"Brimstone" (1998)
The Devil: Nobody beats the Devil. Are you listening? Did you hear what
I said, Mr. Stone? Nobody beats the Devil.
Ezekiel Stone: So you keep telling me. <enjoying his Reggie Bar> Go to
Hell...<smiles and pushes the Down button on the elevator> ...please.
snip
Jan
jms...@aol.com says...
>
>The only thing I can say without equivocation is that when that day
>comes, as the rights-holder, I will make darned sure that it's done
>right, because I'd rather have no B5 movie than one that doesn't live
>up to what fans and I myself would want to see.
>
>To that end...I can wait.
>
>Anyway, just thought you should know the story.
>
>jms
>
>copyright (c) 2005 by
>Synthetic Worlds, Ltd.
>Reprint permission specifically
>denied to SFX Magazine
>
Thanks for the official word, JMS. Sorry it's not to be yet, but I'm so glad
that you hold the rights to this one because there's no doubt you'll do it
right.
Jan
--
Richard Biggs Memorial Show - A day with his friends - Saturday, March 19, 2005.
For more info: http://www.richardbiggs.com/
Rob Perkins
> Thanks for the official word, JMS. Sorry it's not to be yet, but I'm so glad
> that you hold the rights to this one because there's no doubt you'll do it
> right.
>
> Jan
So....
What does this mean for the eep contest, Jan?
Rob
Oron Port
> Could you approach another, perhaps more sci-fi friendly, studio, e.g.
> Universal (FIREFLY) and Fox (SW) and even Paramount (ST), or is that
> just not how things are done?
>
From what he said I understand that the unnamed company which
commissioned the script, now has the rights on that particular project.
So probably he can't negotiate such deals by himself.
This is very sad... Although a B5 project can be delayed, but if we want
to see our favorite characters and the actors who play them, it cannot
be delayed too much, since time takes its toll from all. Although the
age difference might serve as a plus if the project is played about ten
years into the future (Telepath war, anyone?).
Oron
Oron Port
> In article <1109376591.7...@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
> jms...@aol.com says...
>
>>The only thing I can say without equivocation is that when that day
>>comes, as the rights-holder, I will make darned sure that it's done
>>right, because I'd rather have no B5 movie than one that doesn't live
>>up to what fans and I myself would want to see.
>>
>>To that end...I can wait.
>>
>>Anyway, just thought you should know the story.
>>
>>jms
>>
>>copyright (c) 2005 by
>>Synthetic Worlds, Ltd.
>>Reprint permission specifically
>>denied to SFX Magazine
>>
>
>
> Thanks for the official word, JMS. Sorry it's not to be yet, but I'm so glad
> that you hold the rights to this one because there's no doubt you'll do it
> right.
>
> Jan
>
>
And so ends the Eep saga... What a wonderful time it was...
Oron
Mac Breck
news:421fc7ac$1...@news.bezeqint.net...
> Mac Breck wrote:
> > Could you approach another, perhaps more sci-fi friendly, studio,
e.g.
> > Universal (FIREFLY) and Fox (SW) and even Paramount (ST), or is that
> > just not how things are done?
> >
>
> From what he said I understand that the unnamed company which
> commissioned the script, now has the rights on that particular
project.
> So probably he can't negotiate such deals by himself.
But for how long? Doesn't have to be a whole year (thru Dec. 2005),
does it?
Amy Guskin
(in article <421fc7ac$1...@news.bezeqint.net>):
The Telepath War takes place 2264-65. That's about two years after the end
of season 5.
Sad news. But glad to know that JMS holds the rights himself. It gives me
some comfort. Now, how can we get Lucas interested enough to write Joe a
blank check?
Amy
--
http://www.zongoftheweek.com
Free and legal downloads of fun, original songs
Jan
Paul Harper
>Anyway, just thought you should know the story.
Better luck next time. Whatever happens, I am sure you'll do it right,
and do it in your own way, irrespective of unwanted outside
interference.
Chin up.
Paul.
--
. A .sig is all well and good, but it's no substitute for a personality
. JMS: "SFX is a fairly useless publication on just about every imaginable front.
Never have so many jumped-up fanboys done so little, with so much, for so long."
. EMail: Unless invited to, don't. Your message is likely to be automatically deleted.
Oron Port
> The Telepath War takes place 2264-65. That's about two years after the end
> of season 5.
Oh, yeah, how stupid of me. For some reason I thought it took place
after Crusade. Thanks for the clarification.
Oron
Oron Port
Thank you Joe for everything. Hoping for a better luck next time,
Oron
Andrew Swallow
> "Oron Port" <zora...@netscape.net> wrote in message
> news:421fc7ac$1...@news.bezeqint.net...
>
>>Mac Breck wrote:
>>
>>>Could you approach another, perhaps more sci-fi friendly, studio,
>
> e.g.
>
>>>Universal (FIREFLY) and Fox (SW) and even Paramount (ST), or is that
>>>just not how things are done?
>>>
>>
>> From what he said I understand that the unnamed company which
>>commissioned the script, now has the rights on that particular
>
> project.
>
>>So probably he can't negotiate such deals by himself.
>
>
> But for how long? Doesn't have to be a whole year (thru Dec. 2005),
> does it?
>
" ... So the option has reverted, and to all intents and purposes,
the project has dead ended."
Andrew Swallow
John W. Kennedy
> (It's worth mentioning that I, not WB, own the rights to a B5
> movie. When we were negotiating the original B5 deal -- by whose terms
> I will never see a dime in profit -- the one thing they did let me have
> were the movie rights, figuring they'd never be worth anything in the
> long run.)
You never told us that!
So that means that there's a decent chance that if and when a B5
theatrical is made, it won't end up being "A Fettes Grey Production",
right? (I say "a decent chance" because I remember only too well how
Steve Gerber loved the "Howard the Duck" movie, until he actually saw it.)
That's some consolation. A considerable consolation, in fact.
--
John W. Kennedy
The solemn hour, "when night and morning meet,"
Mysterious time, to superstition dear,
And superstition’s guides, now passes by;
Deathlike in solitude. The sentinels,
In drowsy tones, from post to post, send on
The signal of the passing hour. "All’s well,"
Sounds through the camp. Alas! all is not well;
Else, why stand I, a man, the friend of man,
At midnight’s depth, deck’d in this murderous guise,
The habiliment of death, the badge of dire,
Necessitous coercion. ’Tis not well.
--In vain the enlighten’d friends of suffering man
Point out, of war, the folly, guilt, and madness.
Still, age succeeds to age, and war to war;
And man, the murderer, marshals out his hosts
In all the gaiety of festive pomp,
To spread around him death and desolation.
How long! how long!----------------
-- William Dunlap: André: A Tragedy in Five Acts (1798)
Andrew Swallow
[snip]
> Sad news. But glad to know that JMS holds the rights himself. It gives me
> some comfort. Now, how can we get Lucas interested enough to write Joe a
> blank check?
Or Bill Gates. Or the people who work for Bill Gates.
Or any of the technology companies and organisations.
To raise $40 million you need 40,000 people to pay $1,000.
Although 40 people paying one million each can do it
with less paperwork.
I would suggest the London stock market but I suspect
that the Thunderbirds film killed that. The banks
have probably already said no. Television stations
(such as the BBC and Channel 4) sometimes fund feature
films, providing they get first showing rights.
Once the banks are out the standard sources of money are
family, friends, fools and fanatics.
Andrew Swallow
krueg...@hotmail.com
have made some easy bucks on this, probably.
Thanks so much for taking the higher road.
Jan
says...
>
>Sad news. But glad to know that JMS holds the rights himself. It gives me
>some comfort. Now, how can we get Lucas interested enough to write Joe a
>blank check?
>
What's his address? We can always...write letters. ;-)
Jan
(just kidding! Honest!)
Oron Port
When I have my fantasies on being stinking-rich now and then, I almost
always think about what it would be like to give some big bucks to Joe,
so he'd make the show he would like to see.
Oron
Jan
> Nor do I think this particular incarnation
>will arise again at any point in the future, though prognostication has
>always been a tricky art, especially if you have to do it without the
>benefit of hindsight.
>
JMS,
Can you expand on this a little? Does 'this particular incarnation' mean that
this story (or script), "The Memory of Shadows" isn't likely to ever be used? I
really hope that's not what you meant...
Jan
Christian Hennecke
wrote:
> On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 04:02:02 +0000 (UTC), krueg...@hotmail.com
> wrote:
>
> >
> >Moyra J. Bligh wrote:
> >> >
> >> >We out in the hinterlands haven't seen or heard anything, even
> >though 3
> >> >weeks have passed. Can you say if things go well or not?
> >>
> >> To quote Mira Furlan at VisionCon in Missouri this past weekend,
> >>"It's dead".
> >
> >What? When she said this, was she referring to her appearing in TMoS?
> >Or are you saying she's basically claimed publicly that the entire
> >project is a no-go?
>
> Mira was talking about the entire movie.
Oh CRAP!
--
"I smell blood and an era of prominent madmen." - W.H. Auden
Methuselah Jones
<jms...@aol.com> of rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated make plain:
> When we were negotiating the original B5 deal -- by whose terms I will
> never see a dime in profit -- the one thing they did let me have were
> the movie rights.
No wonder WB likes B5 -- they don't have to pay you anything for it.
Kind of puts a different light on buying the DVDs and stuff, knowing
we're just supporting some fat-ass studio execs and not the actual
talent.
> In the end, however, the deal could not be put together, and it did
> not look as if that was going to change at any point in the
> foreseeable future. So the option has reverted, and to all intents
> and purposes, the project has dead ended.
Sorry to hear it, Joe. But know that you and all your hard work are
greatly appreciated by your fans. That which is loved....
--
Methuselah
"Next week, a doctor with a flashlight shows us where sales projections
come from."
-- Dilbert
jms...@aol.com
Methuselah Jones wrote:
> Carved in mystic runes upon the very living rock, the last words of
> <jms...@aol.com> of rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated make plain:
>
> > When we were negotiating the original B5 deal -- by whose terms I
will
> > never see a dime in profit -- the one thing they did let me have
were
> > the movie rights.
>
> No wonder WB likes B5 -- they don't have to pay you anything for it.
> Kind of puts a different light on buying the DVDs and stuff, knowing
> we're just supporting some fat-ass studio execs and not the actual
> talent.
>
That's the great irony of the situation. The criteria told to us right
up front while we were producing B5 was that each of the series on PTEN
had to show a profit *in that year* in order to stay on the air and be
renewed. So we'd have these meetings with studio heads who were
congratulating us on how much money the show was making for them
(again, while we were still making for it), and then look at me,
realize what they'd said, and hurriedly add, "Though technically we're
still in the red."
The show, all in, cost about $110 million to make. Each year of its
original run, we know it showed a profit because they TOLD us so. And
in one case, they actually showed us the figures. It's now been on the
air worldwide for ten years. There's been merchandise, syndication,
cable, books, you name it. The DVDs grossed roughly half a BILLION
dollars (and that was just after they put out S5, without all of the S5
sales in).
So what does my last profit statement say? We're $80 million in the
red.
Basically, by the terms of my contract, if a set on a WB movie burns
down in Botswana, they can charge it against B5's profits.
But then again, I knew that was the situation going in...I saw the
writing on the wall (and the contract) from the git-go. I didn't do
this to build an empire, I wanted to tell this story...and that's worth
more than anything else.
Doesn't mean I can't tweak 'em about it, though.
jms
Iva
eaerlier
> is taking a while to move through the system. So this info
will repeat
> soonish on another subject.
>
> jms
Damn. <sigh> Well, at least you still have the movie rights.
Hopefully, one day, we will see B5 on the big screen.
Thanks for letting us know, even if it wasn't exactly what we
*really* wanted to hear.
--
Iva
Iva
>Amy Guskin wrote:
> >
> >Sad news. But glad to know that JMS holds the rights himself.
It gives me
> >some comfort. Now, how can we get Lucas interested enough to
write Joe a
> >blank check?
> >
>
> What's his address? We can always...write letters. ;-)
>
> Jan
> (just kidding! Honest!)
Hey, I still have some B5 Bucks left! <g>
--
Iva
krueg...@hotmail.com
not WB necessarily, I just mean everything I ever hear about "the
business" makes me realize I'd never survive it for even 10 minutes.
Thanks for not making an easy profit at the cost of quality. Your
stories really have inspired. They have given perspective that some of
us might not have gotten otherwise. Stories that make us think, make
us angry, and also make us inspired. (And even if I still can't spell
it right, thanks especially for "Waiting for Gethsemene" and "View from
the Gallery".)
Thanks.
And if it is any kind of consolation to you, you have ruined me for
typical television science fiction now, you know. LOL
;)
Andrew Swallow
[snip]
> So what does my last profit statement say? We're $80 million in the
> red.
>
> Basically, by the terms of my contract, if a set on a WB movie burns
> down in Botswana, they can charge it against B5's profits.
Is there an end date on this spending and/or contract?
Is this the end of your stay in Britain? Or do you have other work in
progress?
Andrew Swallow
Lisa Stewart
jms...@aol.com wrote:
> But then again, I knew that was the situation going in...I saw the
> writing on the wall (and the contract) from the git-go. I didn't do
> this to build an empire, I wanted to tell this story...and that's worth
> more than anything else.
This is the part that just gets me.
I really want you to have the opportunity to tell some more stories.
All the way -- from start to finish. And it seems that something always
gets in the way. Crusade, Legend of the Rangers, Jeremiah, and now
this. I have a bad case of storius interruptus. *sigh*
I support your decisions and trust your judgment, I'm just mourning the
loss of another great story.
--Lisa
Jeffrey O. Gustafson
>I will never see a dime in profit -- the one thing they did let me have
>long run.)
!?!!!
Mac Breck
news:1109376591.7...@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> I'm putting this here because the new message threader I sent eaerlier
> is taking a while to move through the system. So this info will
repeat
> soonish on another subject.
>
> jms
>
snip
> Anyway...on December 27th of 2003, the script for "The Memory of
> Shadows" was turned in, and the process began of trying to make the
> deal work with all the various forces involved. It is, to say the
> least, a very difficult process on any movie where the studio does not
> directly take the financial reins. In terms of B5, Warner's position
> was esssentially, "We only do big-budget movies with big names, so
> you're on your own." If there were big-name movie actors in the film,
> they'd get behind it;
And if they hadn't given you the movie rights, I suspect the excuse
would have just been a different one, *or* they would have made a movie
cast with whomever they wanted.
In the current situation, you get older, we get older, and the cast gets
older and less likely to be able to play their parts. The future,
minimal as it is, appears to be in novels. Wonder who's dragging their
feet there, or what the monkeywrench dealbreaker is. Got to be
something like that. "Also, expect word fairly soon-ish about a new
series of B5 novels." was posted back on June 15, 2004, over eight
months ago.
Good grief, wonder if we'll ever get to see any of these stories
resolved before the last of us go beyond the freaking rim. Time to quit
watching the pot. Maybe it'll boil when no one's looking. Probably
not, but what the hell, it's worth a try.
Over and out.
snip
> jms
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> copyright (c) 2005 by
> Synthetic Worlds, Ltd.
> Reprint permission specifically
> denied to SFX Magazine
--
Mac Breck (KoshN)
-------------------------------
"Babylon 5: Crusade" (1999)
Galen: "There is always hope, only because it's the one thing that no
one has figured out how to kill yet."
(Galen's obviously never met Warner Brothers, TNT-Atlanta or Sci-Fi.)
Gunnar René Øie
> Can you expand on this a little? Does 'this particular incarnation' mean
> that
> this story (or script), "The Memory of Shadows" isn't likely to ever be
> used? I really hope that's not what you meant...
I sure hope the movie rights and the script are covered by the same option.
It would be so sad if the option for the movie rights has expired, while
the option for the script hasn't. (Meaning that the script has to be bought
or an all new story has to be written...)
Dan Dassow
Paul G. Allen, one of Bill Gates's original partners,
would be more likely to bankroll a B5 Movie, although
the chances of that happening is probably nill. Mr. Allen
is the founder of the Science Fiction Museum in
Seattle, Washington.
<http://www.sfhomeworld.org/about/index.asp>
Dan Dassow
Robert
<jms...@aol.com> wrote:
> This was not the first time someone's taken a run at a B5 feature film,
> and it will not be the last. Eventually it will happen, because such
> things are simply inevitable. If they can do a Brady Bunch movie, you
> can be sure that sooner or later, somebody's going to do a B5 movie.
> The only thing I can say without equivocation is that when that day
> comes, as the rights-holder, I will make darned sure that it's done
> right, because I'd rather have no B5 movie than one that doesn't live
> up to what fans and I myself would want to see.
>
> To that end...I can wait.
> Anyway, just thought you should know the story.
Man, I am just burned at this news. I really was hoping that this project
would work out. However, I also feared a Babylon 5 movie that was dictated
by the studio, and not by JMS.
I'm just disappointed, after having my hopes raised for the last year.
Hopefully someone in Hollywood will see B5 for what it is, and what is it is
worth.
Robert
Amy Guskin
(in article <cvq3cf$vp5$1...@orkan.itea.ntnu.no>):
I think it would have to be the script. We already know from his post that
JMS owns the film rights to B5, and that they expired in December and he
extended them a bit, treading water to try to make the project work. That
extension was likely only for a very short term.
I'm sure that the script was part and parcel of the movie option. And in any
case, I think that by WGA rules it would _have_ to revert to him if the film
is not made within a certain, contracted period of time. And JMS is too
smart to sign something that would let the script languish in the hands of a
studio for very long (if at all) if the film isn't being made.
Dan Dassow
> In article <0001HW.BE4534A8...@news.verizon.net>, Amy
Guskin
> says...
> >
> >Sad news. But glad to know that JMS holds the rights himself. It
gives me
> >some comfort. Now, how can we get Lucas interested enough to write
Joe a
> >blank check?
> >
>
> What's his address? We can always...write letters. ;-)
>
> Jan
> (just kidding! Honest!)
>
Jan, if you were serious, and I am certain
that you are not, you could start a thread
on the message boards at <http://www.starwars.com/>.
Unfortunately, you would probably risk incurring
the wrath of the "true" Star Wars fans and being
banned from ever posting again on that message board.
That would be a small price to pay for getting a B5
film. <*WINK*> <*BIG GRIN*>
You could also appeal to "John Hudgens (Fenn)" to
intervene with Mr. Lucas. For those recent members of
rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated who do not know
John Hudgens, he collaborated with JMS on the
creation of promotional music videos for the B5,
which can be seen at Joe's or his own convention
presentations.[1] John also produced one of the funniest
Star Wars parodies ever produced, "The Jedi Hunter"
<http://tinyurl.com/62bjd>
Original URL:
<http://atomfilms.shockwave.com/af/spotlight/collections/focus/focus_swffa.html>
"The Jedi Hunter" was the 2003 Audience Award Winner,
Star Wars Fan Film Awards!
Dan Dassow
Note:
[1] One of these days I will get to see these videos.
Everyone has mentioned that these are extremely
well done.
Chris Kocher
So basically, all the letters and hype and hatred for Warner Bros. over
the past six months was less than pointless, since they had no role in
the B5 movie at all.
Ironic, really, considering how much in a tizzy some pople were around here.
Chris
Amy Guskin
(in article <IO2Ud.30392$vK5....@twister.nyroc.rr.com>):
> jms...@aol.com wrote:
>
>> (It's worth mentioning that I, not WB, own the rights to a B5
>> movie. When we were negotiating the original B5 deal -- by whose terms
>> I will never see a dime in profit -- the one thing they did let me have
>> were the movie rights, figuring they'd never be worth anything in the
>> long run.)
>
>
> So basically, all the letters and hype and hatred for Warner Bros. over
> the past six months was less than pointless, since they had no role in
> the B5 movie at all.<<
That's not what JMS's message says.
Methuselah Jones
Guskin of rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated make plain:
>>>On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 10:10:48 -0500, Gunnar René Řie wrote
> (in article <cvq3cf$vp5$1...@orkan.itea.ntnu.no>):
>
>> Jan wrote:
>>
>>> Can you expand on this a little? Does 'this particular incarnation'
>>> mean that
>>> this story (or script), "The Memory of Shadows" isn't likely to ever
>>> be used? I really hope that's not what you meant...
>>
>> I sure hope the movie rights and the script are covered by the same
>> option. It would be so sad if the option for the movie rights has
>> expired, while the option for the script hasn't. (Meaning that the
>> script has to be bought or an all new story has to be written...)<<
>
> I think it would have to be the script. We already know from his post
> that JMS owns the film rights to B5, and that they expired in December
That is, the other studio's option on them expired.
> I'm sure that the script was part and parcel of the movie option.
That would make sense. A script that you have no right to produce would
be worthless; there would be no reason for the studio to hold onto it.
Although, if they paid to have the script written, they might want to try
to get some of that money back from it.
--
Methuselah
"Beauty is skin deep. But how rich you are can last a long time."
-- Christine, age 9
Wesley Struebing
>I'm putting this here because the new message threader I sent eaerlier
>is taking a while to move through the system. So this info will repeat
>soonish on another subject.
>
>jms
>
>-----------------------------------------------
>
>The rule of thumb in Hollywood is that for every thousand scripts that
>get written, only a few dozen get into development, and out of those,
>only one will ever get made...if that.
<"death of a movie" snipped>
>
>This was not the first time someone's taken a run at a B5 feature film,
>and it will not be the last. Eventually it will happen, because such
>things are simply inevitable. If they can do a Brady Bunch movie, you
>can be sure that sooner or later, somebody's going to do a B5 movie.
>The only thing I can say without equivocation is that when that day
>comes, as the rights-holder, I will make darned sure that it's done
>right, because I'd rather have no B5 movie than one that doesn't live
>up to what fans and I myself would want to see.
>
>To that end...I can wait.
>
>Anyway, just thought you should know the story.
>
>jms
>
Well, err, crap! Just - crap!
We can wait, too, I think.
Thank you, nonetheless, for the update.
(though I fully expected to see this here about now - I just got done
reading the Zocalo...
....and crap again!
--
Wes Struebing
I pledge allegiance to the Constitution of the United States of America,
and to the republic which it established, one nation from many peoples,
promising liberty and justice for all.
Amy Guskin
(in article <Xns96098640B97E8me...@216.196.97.131>):
> Carved in mystic runes upon the very living rock, the last words of Amy
> Guskin of rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated make plain:
>
>>>> On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 10:10:48 -0500, Gunnar René Øie wrote
>> (in article <cvq3cf$vp5$1...@orkan.itea.ntnu.no>):
>>
>>> Jan wrote:
>>>
>>>> Can you expand on this a little? Does 'this particular incarnation'
>>>> mean that
>>>> this story (or script), "The Memory of Shadows" isn't likely to ever
>>>> be used? I really hope that's not what you meant...
>>>
>>> I sure hope the movie rights and the script are covered by the same
>>> option. It would be so sad if the option for the movie rights has
>>> expired, while the option for the script hasn't. (Meaning that the
>>> script has to be bought or an all new story has to be written...)<<
>>
>> I think it would have to be the script. We already know from his post
>> that JMS owns the film rights to B5, and that they expired in December
>
> That is, the other studio's option on them expired.<<
Yeah, thanks, that was badly worded on my part, but that's what I meant: the
production company's option on JMS's property expired.
>>> I'm sure that the script was part and parcel of the movie option.
>
> That would make sense. A script that you have no right to produce would
> be worthless; there would be no reason for the studio to hold onto it.
>
> Although, if they paid to have the script written, they might want to try
> to get some of that money back from it. <<
Well, that work has been _done_ - the script was written - so it's money
already spent. If I code a website for a company and it fails, I don't have
to pay them back for the work I did. I'm not responsible for their bad
business practices.
Chris Kocher
>>>On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 13:00:59 -0500, Chris Kocher wrote
>>So basically, all the letters and hype and hatred for Warner Bros. over
>>the past six months was less than pointless, since they had no role in
>>the B5 movie at all.<<
>
>
> That's not what JMS's message says.
OK, how's this: WB apparently had no role in the movie at the time all
the letters and etc. were being written. The consortium of other backers
was being assembled, and I doubt that WB would have joined them if they
could not have complete ownership.
Chris
Wesley Struebing
<dan_d...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>Andrew Swallow wrote:
>> Amy Guskin wrote:
>> [snip]
>> > Sad news. But glad to know that JMS holds the rights himself. It
>gives me
>> > some comfort. Now, how can we get Lucas interested enough to write
>Joe a
>> > blank check?
>>
<snip>
>
>Paul G. Allen, one of Bill Gates's original partners,
>would be more likely to bankroll a B5 Movie, although
>the chances of that happening is probably nill. Mr. Allen
>is the founder of the Science Fiction Museum in
>Seattle, Washington.
><http://www.sfhomeworld.org/about/index.asp>
>
....and pretty-much bankrolled Spaceship One, too
Wesley Struebing
>
>Methuselah Jones wrote:
<snip>
>>
>> No wonder WB likes B5 -- they don't have to pay you anything for it.
>> Kind of puts a different light on buying the DVDs and stuff, knowing
>> we're just supporting some fat-ass studio execs and not the actual
>> talent.
>>
>
>That's the great irony of the situation. The criteria told to us right
>up front while we were producing B5 was that each of the series on PTEN
>had to show a profit *in that year* in order to stay on the air and be
>renewed. So we'd have these meetings with studio heads who were
>congratulating us on how much money the show was making for them
>(again, while we were still making for it), and then look at me,
>realize what they'd said, and hurriedly add, "Though technically we're
>still in the red."
>
<red ink, bogus, imho, snipped>
>
>But then again, I knew that was the situation going in...I saw the
>writing on the wall (and the contract) from the git-go. I didn't do
>this to build an empire, I wanted to tell this story...and that's worth
>more than anything else.
>
>Doesn't mean I can't tweak 'em about it, though.
>
That's the jms I expected to hear from!
<evil grin>
Jan
>
>So basically, all the letters and hype and hatred for Warner Bros. over
>the past six months was less than pointless, since they had no role in
>the B5 movie at all.
>
>Ironic, really, considering how much in a tizzy some pople were around here.
>
Six months? By my calendar it was less than three. And none of us who promoted
writing letters promoted hatred or any other negative emotion. In fact we tried
to ensure that letters were positive, not negative.
As far as I can see, there's no contradiction here at all. I'd say that as the
company/individuals holding the option continued to be able to put the deal
together, there might well have been major pressure put to bear regarding who
played the roles of the original characters in order to try to *get* WB to
finance it.
Which, if you'll recall, is exactly what we were promoting, only using the
original cast. The error, if it was one, was our thanking WB for considering
the project in the first place.
No regets here.
Amy Guskin
(in article <353Ud.39083$nC5....@twister.nyroc.rr.com>):
Really? And you know this _how_?
Jan
>
>
>OK, how's this: WB apparently had no role in the movie at the time all
>the letters and etc. were being written. The consortium of other backers
>was being assembled, and I doubt that WB would have joined them if they
>could not have complete ownership.
>
Except, of course, what JMS wrote was:
<<In terms of B5, Warner's position
was esssentially, "We only do big-budget movies with big names, so
you're on your own." If there were big-name movie actors in the film,
they'd get behind it;>>
Doubt what you like though.
phil giglio
"Wesley Struebing" <str...@carpedementem.org> wrote in message
news:fef121h6asvv3oo8s...@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 16:26:11 +0000 (UTC), "Dan Dassow"
> <dan_d...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >Andrew Swallow wrote:
> >> Amy Guskin wrote:
> >> [snip]
> >> > Sad news. But glad to know that JMS holds the rights himself. It
> >gives me
> >> > some comfort. Now, how can we get Lucas interested enough to write
> >Joe a
> >> > blank check?
> >>
> <snip>
> >
> >Paul G. Allen, one of Bill Gates's original partners,
> >would be more likely to bankroll a B5 Movie, although
> >the chances of that happening is probably nill. Mr. Allen
> >is the founder of the Science Fiction Museum in
> >Seattle, Washington.
> ><http://www.sfhomeworld.org/about/index.asp>
> >
> ....and pretty-much bankrolled Spaceship One, too
not to mention a small air force of war birds, at about 2 million a pop
> --
>
> Wes Struebing
>
> I pledge allegiance to the Constitution of the United States of America,
> and to the republic which it established, one nation from many peoples,
> promising liberty and justice for all.
>
.
Kurt Ullman
jms...@aol.com wrote:
>So what does my last profit statement say? We're $80 million in the
>red.
>
>Basically, by the terms of my contract, if a set on a WB movie burns
>down in Botswana, they can charge it against B5's profits.
>
>But then again, I knew that was the situation going in...I saw the
>writing on the wall (and the contract) from the git-go. I didn't do
>this to build an empire, I wanted to tell this story...and that's worth
>more than anything else.
>
>Doesn't mean I can't tweak 'em about it, though.
>
Probably the greatest piece of fiction I have ever read was
the Studio financial stuff from Art Buchwald's suit.
--
Since some states are requiring companies to provide health coverage to
various partners regardless of sexual preference, it should be no time
'til my HMO puts on a large-animal veterinarian. *THE* Bill Price of MW
Hank Arnold
"So the option has reverted, and to all intents and purposes, the project
has dead ended. "
--
Regards,
Hank Arnold
"Oron Port" <zora...@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:421fc7ac$1...@news.bezeqint.net...
> Mac Breck wrote:
>> Could you approach another, perhaps more sci-fi friendly, studio, e.g.
>> Universal (FIREFLY) and Fox (SW) and even Paramount (ST), or is that
>> just not how things are done?
>>
>
> From what he said I understand that the unnamed company which commissioned
> the script, now has the rights on that particular project. So probably he
> can't negotiate such deals by himself.
Jere Lull
> The show, all in, cost about $110 million to make. Each year of its
> original run, we know it showed a profit because they TOLD us so. And
> in one case, they actually showed us the figures. It's now been on the
> air worldwide for ten years. There's been merchandise, syndication,
> cable, books, you name it. The DVDs grossed roughly half a BILLION
> dollars (and that was just after they put out S5, without all of the S5
> sales in).
>
> So what does my last profit statement say? We're $80 million in the
> red.
>
> Basically, by the terms of my contract, if a set on a WB movie burns
> down in Botswana, they can charge it against B5's profits.
>
> But then again, I knew that was the situation going in...I saw the
> writing on the wall (and the contract) from the git-go. I didn't do
> this to build an empire, I wanted to tell this story...and that's worth
> more than anything else.
>
> Doesn't mean I can't tweak 'em about it, though.
ENJOY the tweaks if they give you some solice.
In the meantime, I'm really sorry that their heads are up their asses
and we don't have more B5 to explore at the moment. The B5 universe may
not be as profitable as the ST one of a decade or two ago, but it's got
more legs than most of the slop they're green-lighting.
That said, I have to admit that Skiffy is the channel I'm most usually
tuned into recently. Though it's slock, it's slightly better slock than
I see on the other channels.
--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/
poolvärd
after word on TMoS got out, like the adjunct to the movie or the new
series of novels or other things I don't remember/know?
Are they dead as well?
Sven
Robert Bernardo
> In the end, however, the deal could not be put together, and it did not
> look as if that was going to change at any point in the foreseeable
> future. So the option has reverted, and to all intents and purposes,
> the project has dead ended.
I'm saddened that no new Babylon 5 project is going to be produced
in the near future. I wish JMS all the best fortune in his next B5
endeavor.
Truly,
Robert Bernardo
Amy Guskin
(in article <jerelull-ADD110...@news.verizon.net>):
>
> That said, I have to admit that Skiffy is the channel I'm most usually
> tuned into recently. Though it's slock, it's slightly better slock than
> I see on the other channels.<<
I couldn't be certain, but I think the word you're looking for is "schlock."
Methuselah Jones
Guskin of rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated make plain:
>>>On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 13:12:04 -0500, Methuselah Jones wrote
> (in article <Xns96098640B97E8me...@216.196.97.131>):
>
>> Carved in mystic runes upon the very living rock, the last words of
>> Amy Guskin of rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated make plain:
>>
>>> I'm sure that the script was part and parcel of the movie option.
>>
>> That would make sense. A script that you have no right to produce
>> would be worthless; there would be no reason for the studio to hold
>> onto it.
>>
>> Although, if they paid to have the script written, they might want to
>> try to get some of that money back from it. <<
>
> Well, that work has been _done_ - the script was written - so it's
> money already spent. If I code a website for a company and it fails,
> I don't have to pay them back for the work I did. I'm not responsible
> for their bad business practices.
I know, but if they paid for the script to be done, and they retain the
rights to it, they could try to sell it to someone else if they wanted to
try to produce it.
--
Methuselah
"First things first, but not necessarily in that order."
-- Doctor Who
Jeffrey O. Gustafson
>rights to it, they could try to sell it to someone else if they wanted to
>try to produce it.
The only way they could have "kept" it was if they started production by, as
JMS said, December, and then again by some un-specified extension period.
They didn't, so it reverted back to Joe. Read his scriptwriting book:
Hollywood is littered with unused or expired options - production company A
options the rights to book B for six figures for, say, two years. They pay
the author the money, pay him again for a draft, stick the script in a drawer
and do nothing (politics, change in executives, funding fell through,
whatever). Two years pass,original option expires, book B is then optioned
by company C, process starts over. It's entirely possible for a writer to
have a steady lifetime income entirely from unused options on a single story,
in theory.
-The Jeff
Sheridan:"So how did you find out all of this?"
Bester:"I'm a telepath. Work it out." <*>
Gunnar Ren ie
> Read what JMS said...
>
> "So the option has reverted, and to all intents and purposes, the project
> has dead ended. "
Yeah. General belief is that the option for the movie, now expired and back
in JMS's hands also included the option for the script. (I hope so...)
Josh Hill
wrote:
>In article <1109384478.4...@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> jms...@aol.com wrote:
>> Doesn't mean I can't tweak 'em about it, though.
>
>ENJOY the tweaks if they give you some solice.
>
>In the meantime, I'm really sorry that their heads are up their asses
>and we don't have more B5 to explore at the moment. The B5 universe may
>not be as profitable as the ST one of a decade or two ago, but it's got
>more legs than most of the slop they're green-lighting.
Is it just me, or if the Babylon 5 DVD's had grossed my studio half a
billion dollars would I be down on my knees begging the series creator
to do whatever he wants?
--
Josh
grace
"Methuselah Jones" <methu...@altgeek.org> wrote in message
news:Xns9609DB110ACA4me...@216.196.97.131...
>From The Complete Book of Scriptwriting by J. Michael Straczynski : An
option means that the studio will agree to pay you a certain fee, usually
anywhere from $5,000 to $10,000, to hold onto your script during that time
while it tries to set it up. You, in turn, promise not to market the script
anywhere else until the option period has expired.
In his post JMS mentioned extending the option at no cost and goes on to say
that the option has reverted. So in theory JMS could shop the script
elsewhere. I doubt that JMS would sell the script outright (to a production
company) because if he does, they own it, and he would lose any control over
the final product.
Grace
jms...@aol.com
over
the past six months was less than pointless, since they had no role in
the B5 movie at all.
Ironic, really, considering how much in a tizzy some pople were around
here."
Your assumption is not valid. Which is all I can say for the moment.
jms
jms...@aol.com
>I know, but if they paid for the script to be done, and they retain
the
>rights to it, they could try to sell it to someone else if they wanted
to
>try to produce it.
: The only way they could have "kept" it was if they started production
by, as
: JMS said, December, and then again by some un-specified extension
period.
: They didn't, so it reverted back to Joe.
Not correct. The script cannot be sold by the other party without the
option. In contrast, while I have the option again, the script (as the
basis of a film) is owned by the other party and if I were to try and
produce it or if another studio wanted to produce it, they would have
to buy it back from the other party. Any ancillary use of the script
(such as a novelization) would also require that kind of buy-out.
The only exception to this is that under the WGA's Separation of Rights
Provision, the writer owns the physical script...so the script of any
movie or TV show, produced or otherwise, can be published AS a script,
or copies can be sold, because they are the writer's property.
But all production related rights are off the table.
jms
Stuart Lamble
> Is it just me, or if the Babylon 5 DVD's had grossed my studio half a
> billion dollars would I be down on my knees begging the series creator
> to do whatever he wants?
Depends on how much it cost in the first place. Suppose you paid fifty
billion dollars (to pull a figure out of my backside) on all the various
costs: production of the show; digitisation; cover art; pressings;
distribution; etc. You then received back that fifty billion, plus
another half a billion, over the course of ten years.
That's a one percent return after ten years. Or around .1% (a little
under) per annum on average.
You'd get a better rate of return having the money sit in a bank.
Now, I'm not saying that B5 cost fifty billion to produce and put on DVD
format; I know damn well it didn't. I'm just pointing out that there may
well be better ways (at least in the eyes of the studio) to spend their
money.
--
JMS: I've always been a bit of a mutt, frankly, in part because I'm one
of those people who can see five sides to any two-sided argument.
Tim McDaniel: No, no, no, it's "Understanding is a three-edged sword!"
Honestly, the ignorant posters we get around here...
Paul Harper
<cko...@stny.rr.com> wrote:
>So basically, all the letters and hype and hatred for Warner Bros. over
>the past six months was less than pointless, since they had no role in
>the B5 movie at all.
>
>Ironic, really, considering how much in a tizzy some pople were around here.
Either that, or people here were being used as pawns in someone else's
power games, which is fairly objectionable.
Paul.
--
. A .sig is all well and good, but it's no substitute for a personality
. JMS: "SFX is a fairly useless publication on just about every imaginable front.
Never have so many jumped-up fanboys done so little, with so much, for so long."
. EMail: Unless invited to, don't. Your message is likely to be automatically deleted.
Thunder, Agent '005
novelization? (That is, would you be interested in seeing it come out in
that form?) Or, for that matter, would you ever consider publishing the
script in book form at some point? (I suspect you'd say no, but I
thought I'd throw it out there anyway).
t.k.
Jan
jms...@aol.com says...
>
>The only exception to this is that under the WGA's Separation of Rights
>Provision, the writer owns the physical script...so the script of any
>movie or TV show, produced or otherwise, can be published AS a script,
>or copies can be sold, because they are the writer's property.
>
Hmmm....what conventions will you be doing this year? Guess I'm back up to
needing two scripts...<g>
Oron Port
> In article <1109490157....@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
> jms...@aol.com says...
>
>
>>The only exception to this is that under the WGA's Separation of Rights
>>Provision, the writer owns the physical script...so the script of any
>>movie or TV show, produced or otherwise, can be published AS a script,
>>or copies can be sold, because they are the writer's property.
>>
>
>
>
> Hmmm....what conventions will you be doing this year? Guess I'm back up to
> needing two scripts...<g>
>
> Jan
>
>
HA! I'm almost crying from laughter..
Oron
Oron Port
>>HA! I'm almost crying from laughter..
>>
>
>
> These unproduced scripts are *important*! And, unfortunately, the only
> indications of where the Crusade story was going.
>
> Jan
Heh, I see a Joe who can't find all these B5 layouts and scripts he
saved, pressing speed dial button #4. Joe: "Hello, Jan. Can I borrow the
script for "The Fall of Night", since I somehow misplaced mine". Jan:
"Eh, I don't think so... You can always try ebay".
Oron
Methuselah Jones
Hmmm; Joe is still being coy. Sounds like not all the chips have yet fallen
where they may.
--
Methuselah
Dogs have owners. Cats have staff.
Gunnar René Øie
> So, hypothetically, could someone buy the script and produce a
> novelization?
No, not without being sued by the rights holders. (The other party.)
JMS can only release it as a raw script. But would that perhaps spoil a
future film? In that case, it could take a long time before we see the
script.
Jan
>
>HA! I'm almost crying from laughter..
>
What? Hey, Amy used to call me the unofficial script archivist, didn't she?
These unproduced scripts are *important*! And, unfortunately, the only
indications of where the Crusade story was going.
Jan
Jan
>
>Heh, I see a Joe who can't find all these B5 layouts and scripts he
>saved, pressing speed dial button #4. Joe: "Hello, Jan. Can I borrow the
>script for "The Fall of Night", since I somehow misplaced mine". Jan:
>"Eh, I don't think so... You can always try ebay".
>
LOL! Hardly! And give up bragging rights like that?!? <checks quickly> More
like, "Sure, JMS! Would you prefer the First Draft or the shooting script
through the pink revisions? I'll trade you a copy for the TMoS script, all
revisions."
Jan
(it's not a job, it's an obsession) ;-)
Oron Port
> In article <4221f4a4$1...@news.bezeqint.net>, Oron Port says...
>
>>Heh, I see a Joe who can't find all these B5 layouts and scripts he
>>saved, pressing speed dial button #4. Joe: "Hello, Jan. Can I borrow the
>>script for "The Fall of Night", since I somehow misplaced mine". Jan:
>>"Eh, I don't think so... You can always try ebay".
>>
>
>
> LOL! Hardly! And give up bragging rights like that?!? <checks quickly> More
> like, "Sure, JMS! Would you prefer the First Draft or the shooting script
> through the pink revisions? I'll trade you a copy for the TMoS script, all
> revisions."
>
> Jan
> (it's not a job, it's an obsession) ;-)
Really, you would do that?! Notice that you are only #4 on his speed
dial. :-p
Oron
Brad Barton
Ummmmmm.... eep?
Jan
Yeah, right...the only reason my name in JMS's address book at all is because
there's a tab for 'J', a tab for 'A' and a tab for 'N' in with all those other
non-essential letters. ;-) Anyway, if I were high enough to be #4 on his
speed-dial, wouldn't I already *have* a copy of TMoS?
Jan
David C.
>
> So what does my last profit statement say? We're $80 million in the
> red.
>
> Basically, by the terms of my contract, if a set on a WB movie burns
> down in Botswana, they can charge it against B5's profits.
For those who may think this is highway robbery (and it is), be aware
that this isn't special for B5.
Virtually every movie and TV show ever made has shown a loss on paper
after the studio bookkeepers get through with the numbers. That's the
way the business works.
That's why a royalty contract that promises a cut of the profits is
meaningless - nobody ever gets any money from those clauses. The only
thing they are good for is for sticking on a resume.
Those individuals who see real royalties/residuals have contracts that
pomise a cut of the gross.
Apparently, JMS was unable to negotiate such a contract at the time B5
was contracted for. Which is a shame, but not surprising, given the
industry.
-- David
Methuselah Jones
<jms...@aol.com> of rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated make plain:
> Methuselah Jones wrote:
>
>> Carved in mystic runes upon the very living rock, the last words of
>> <jms...@aol.com> of rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated make plain:
>>
>> > When we were negotiating the original B5 deal -- by whose terms I
>> > will never see a dime in profit -- the one thing they did let me
>> > have were the movie rights.
>>
>> No wonder WB likes B5 -- they don't have to pay you anything for it.
>> Kind of puts a different light on buying the DVDs and stuff, knowing
>> we're just supporting some fat-ass studio execs and not the actual
>> talent.
>
> We'd have these meetings with studio heads who were congratulating
> us on how much money the show was making for them (again, while we
> were still making for it), and then look at me, realize what they'd
> said, and hurriedly add, "Though technically we're still in the red."
>
> So what does my last profit statement say? We're $80 million in the
> red.
>
> Basically, by the terms of my contract, if a set on a WB movie burns
> down in Botswana, they can charge it against B5's profits.
And who says suit types can't be creative?
--
Methuselah
Courage is the willingness of a person to stand up for his beliefs in the
face of great odds. Chutzpah is doing it wearing a Mickey Mouse hat.
Andrew Swallow
[snip]
>>Basically, by the terms of my contract, if a set on a WB movie burns
>>down in Botswana, they can charge it against B5's profits.
>
>
> And who says suit types can't be creative?
The suits do not have to be. The clause probably dates back to the
actual Warner siblings in the 1920s.
How the studios have managed to get away without the FBI charging them
with fraud or a British judge declaring the clause to be unreasonable I
do not know. (The clause would be reasonable if both the costs and the
profits were calculated over all movies.)
Andrew Swallow
Thunder, Agent '005
I meant if they went through all the legal channels...
t.k.
Charles Edmondson
Oh, MY! Now, how is that for a speculation generator!
Possible meanings...
1. WB wasn't behind THIS movie, but noticed the letters, and now...
2. WB wasn't behind the movie, but they were more than thrilled to pass
them on to the folks who WERE, and that caused/supported certain things...
3. Unknown third parties were involved by all the hoo-ray, and because
of this things happened/changed...
This could be fun, esp. if the Great Maker should stoke the furnace a
little!
--
Charlie
--
Edmondson Engineering
Unique Solutions to Unusual Problems
Wesley Struebing
Ahh, you're too reasonable. ('sides, I'm sure they can show they lost
money on the sales...)
--
Wes Struebing
I pledge allegiance to the Constitution of the United States of America,
and to the republic which it established, one nation from many peoples,
promising liberty and justice for all.