Captain Jack
Stefan
On my xth personal B5-rerun I yesterday got "Racing Mars".
And I'm now and for a long time wondering who applied
the keeper to Captain Jack, since in the episode they
only are referred as "Them".
If "Them" are Clark-guys, it seems strange that they
wouldn't place keepers during the war and to suppress
the oppostion.
No one on Babylon5 knows or speaks about that.
The only users of "keeper-technique" we definitely
know are the Drakh. But they don't have any
obvious interest in the Mars-Underground. So what?
Any idea around?
Stefan
PS: I suppose A&A Vol.5 won't reveal any solution
since jmsnews.com doesn't either.
--
Franklin: "Excuse me, where I come from, one man from three leaves
two."
Marcus: "Where I come from is a far more interesting place."
[Exogenesis]
Amy Guskin
(in article
<d5e99f33-1b6d-40b6...@k17g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>):
>
> The only users of "keeper-technique" we definitely
> know are the Drakh. But they don't have any
> obvious interest in the Mars-Underground. So what?
>
> Any idea around? <<
A reminder to all, please be careful and don't post story ideas in response
to this post.
Amy
--
Ten Thousand Questions
A Question a Day for Journaling, Self-Discovery, and Transformation
"2009 is the Year of Questions"
tenthousandquestions.com
Jan
Stefan says...
>
>Not Torchwood of course. <g>
>
>On my xth personal B5-rerun I yesterday got "Racing Mars".
>And I'm now and for a long time wondering who applied
>the keeper to Captain Jack, since in the episode they
>only are referred as "Them".
>
>If "Them" are Clark-guys, it seems strange that they
>wouldn't place keepers during the war and to suppress
>the oppostion.
>No one on Babylon5 knows or speaks about that.
>
>The only users of "keeper-technique" we definitely
>know are the Drakh. But they don't have any
>obvious interest in the Mars-Underground. So what?
>
>Any idea around?
>Stefan
>
>PS: I suppose A&A Vol.5 won't reveal any solution
>since jmsnews.com doesn't either.
>
I don't think any of the 'lost' posts that we found extend that far into the
series.
I think we have to assume that the keeper was placed by the Drakh since we do
know that they're grown on the Drakh. I always figured that it was placed the
same way the keeper on the Regent was-probably while he was asleep. I don't
recall if we have any data as to whether the keepers can live independent of a
host body, do we?
Jan
--
�Shared pain is lessened; shared joy is increased; thus do we refute entropy�
--Spider Robinson
Check out http://wedreamforjeanne.blogspot.com/ for ways to help Jeanne Robinson
fight cancer.
Jeffrey Kaplan
> I think we have to assume that the keeper was placed by the Drakh since we do
> know that they're grown on the Drakh. I always figured that it was placed the
> same way the keeper on the Regent was-probably while he was asleep. I don't
> recall if we have any data as to whether the keepers can live independent of a
> host body, do we?
I think it was more of a "why?" than a "how?" that Stephan was asking.
WHY was the Keeper placed on Capt'n Jack of the Mars Resistance?
--
Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
Double ROT13 encoded for your protection
Tips for Evil Geniuses: 2. I will not transplant my mind into the
Hero's brain when my test monkey is still in the laboratory.
Doug Freyburger
> Previously on rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated, Jan said:
>
>> I think we have to assume that the keeper was placed by the Drakh since we do
>> know that they're grown on the Drakh. I always figured that it was placed the
>> same way the keeper on the Regent was-probably while he was asleep. I don't
>> recall if we have any data as to whether the keepers can live independent of a
>> host body, do we?
>
> I think it was more of a "why?" than a "how?" that Stephan was asking.
> WHY was the Keeper placed on Capt'n Jack of the Mars Resistance?
Very hard to address that topic without going past the charter
limitations of the group. I think it ties into what we eventually
learned about Shdow Bloc influence on Earth and its colonies -
A Shadow craft being pulled out of ice and an unprepared pilot put in
it, the large destroyer class that uses Shadow tech. Having a Keeper on
a leader in the political opposition is a part of that cluster of scenes.
Giovanni Wassen
> I don't recall if we have any data as to whether
> the keepers can live independent of a host body, do we?
Didn't Sheridan receive one hidden in a gift for his son which was
'actived' years later?
--
Gio
http://www.watkijkikoptv.info
http://myanimelist.net/profile/extatix
http://watkijkikoptv.info/animeblog
Joseph DeMartino
> On my xth personal B5-rerun I yesterday got "Racing Mars".
> And I'm now and for a long time wondering who applied
> the keeper to Captain Jack, since in the episode they
> only are referred as "Them".
Trying to stay inside the lines, here, but let me point out a few
facts. You can connect the dots as you like:
Sheridan was on the Drakh's "naughty" list after the Shadow War.
Centauri Prime may have been their first priority, but they certainly
didn't forget the guy who had brought down their masters.
Many things that created trouble or challenges for the Shadows, their
servants and their Earth allies centered on or ran through Mars: the
buried ship, the secret Psi Corp facility, the Rangers, Edgars plan to
eradicate telepaths (doubtless based on Shadow tech and goosed along
by Shadow agents.) Mars was a kind of nexus all by itself and might
well have stayed on the Drakh's radar.
After the Shadow War two things were highly predicatble: 1) That
Sheridan would turn his attention to Earth and 2) that the Mars
Resistance would be a natural ally for him. "The enemy of my
enemy..." and all that. Quite apart from aiding Clark, which the
Drakh may or may not have cared about, an agent inside the Mars
independence movement could give them a way of keeping tabs on
Sheridan, which would be useful to them in and of itself.
Jack was a trader, always out among the stars, that's one of the
things that made him useful to the underground. The Drakh didn't have
to risk sending an agent to Mars in order to plant a Keeper on Jack.
They *could* have grabbed him "out there", then sent him on his way.
Regards,
Joe
Duggy
> The only users of "keeper-technique" we definitely
> know are the Drakh. But they don't have any
> obvious interest in the Mars-Underground. So what?
Were there spinally fingered alien surgeons working with the Drakh to
assess Keeper candidates?
The Drakh were using left over Shadow Tech.
The Shadows had an interest in B5 and probably in interest in Mars
Underground so it makes sense (if seeming a little excessive).
===
= DUG.
===
Duggy
> Jan wrote:
> > I don't recall if we have any data as to whether
> > the keepers can live independent of a host body, do we?
>
> Didn't Sheridan receive one hidden in a gift for his son which was
> 'actived' years later?
Unactivated does mean "alive". Or alive, but in stasis, doesn't mean
it can live independantly.
===
= DUG.
===
Stefan
> Previously on rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated, Jan said:
> > I think we have to assume that the keeper was placed by the Drakh since we do
> > know that they're grown on the Drakh. I always figured that it was placed the
> > same way the keeper on the Regent was-probably while he was asleep. I don't
> > recall if we have any data as to whether the keepers can live independent of a
> > host body, do we?
> I think it was more of a "why?" than a "how?" that Stephan was asking.
> WHY was the Keeper placed on Capt'n Jack of the Mars Resistance?
More "who" than "how"
and a strong "why"
scnr
Stefan
--
Delenn: "We believe that no race can be truly intelligent
without laughter"
[A Race Through Dark Places]
Stefan
As usual: Very in-depth exemplification.
Thanks for that.
One point at last: it wasn't an anti-Sheridan
action that took place, but Cpt. Jack was driven
to assassinate Number One.
See. To stop the B5-connection to Mars the keeper
could've ordered to kill Franklin and Marcus during
the passage. He didn't.
Stefan
--
Sinclair: "Stay close to the Vorlon. And watch out for shadows.
They move when you're not looking at them."
Joseph DeMartino
> One point at last: it wasn't an anti-Sheridan
> action that took place, but Cpt. Jack was driven
> to assassinate Number One.
True, but we don't know that that was the *reason* that Capt. Jack got
the Keeper. He might have been a deep cover agent who was activated
when a good opportunity presented itself.
> See. To stop the B5-connection to Mars the keeper
> could've ordered to kill Franklin and Marcus during
> the passage. He didn't.
But that wouldn't have stopped Sheridan from forming an alliance with
the Mars resistance. If Franklin and Marcus were killed, Sheridan
would have sent someone else. (Just as it wouldn't have done the
Shadows any good to simply assassinate Sheridan - someone would have
taken his place.) Killing Number One, on the other hand, especially
if suspicion can be thrown onto Sheridan's envoys, disrupts the
resistance iteself and drives a wedge between Mars and B5.
And that is probably all I can say without calling down the Wrath of
Amy. <g>
Regards,
Joe
Davej
> [...]
> The only users of "keeper-technique" we definitely
> know are the Drakh. But they don't have any
> obvious interest in the Mars-Underground. So what?
As far as we know the keepers were totally a Drakh thing. Since Mr.
Morden (i.e. Shadows) had a definite relationship with Earth it might
have been done as a favor to President Clark or as an attempt to
obtain some information that could be offered to Clark in exchange for
something else.
The story is ten years dead. I don't think we need the paranoia about
minor story ideas.
Amy Guskin
(in article
<a0d91f5b-8534-4503...@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>):
Oh yes, we do. Ten years dead? You might have forgotten a little thing
called "Lost Tales" that came out in 2007. And the fact that JMS has
repeatedly said that he would be willing to produce more B5 again under
favorable conditions.
Sorry, but you are incorrect, and the "no story ideas" prohibition _stays_.
Andrew Swallow
implants. This suggests that the Shadows and/or their servants
had some sort of base on Mars. The Mars Resistance could have
been a danger to that base.
Andrew Swallow
Jan
Joseph DeMartino says...
>
>On Nov 9, 6:54=A0pm, Stefan <colj...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> One point at last: it wasn't an anti-Sheridan
>> action that took place, but Cpt. Jack was driven
>> to assassinate Number One.
>
>True, but we don't know that that was the *reason* that Capt. Jack got
>the Keeper. He might have been a deep cover agent who was activated
>when a good opportunity presented itself.
>
Exactly. Just as Bester didn't know what Garibaldi might uncover when he
arranged Garibaldi's reprogramming. All he knew is that Garibaldi was in a good
position to uncover threats to telepaths. Captain Jack might not have had any
planned function other than to be the eyes and ears of the Drakh. Or of the
Shadows. We don't know how long he had it, do we?
>> See. To stop the B5-connection to Mars the keeper
>> could've ordered to kill Franklin and Marcus during
>> the passage. He didn't.
>
>But that wouldn't have stopped Sheridan from forming an alliance with
>the Mars resistance. If Franklin and Marcus were killed, Sheridan
>would have sent someone else. (Just as it wouldn't have done the
>Shadows any good to simply assassinate Sheridan - someone would have
>taken his place.) Killing Number One, on the other hand, especially
>if suspicion can be thrown onto Sheridan's envoys, disrupts the
>resistance iteself and drives a wedge between Mars and B5.
>
Number One's death might have ended up preventing Sheridan's alliance with the
Mars resistance though. Remember, Number One was the 'reasonable' one among the
underground leaders.
Joseph DeMartino
> Sorry, but you are incorrect, and the "no story ideas" prohibition _stays_.
Right. Because it isn't "paranoia" when there is an actual risk.
<g>
Joe
Giovanni Wassen
It can survive, which is a part of living.
Joseph DeMartino
> On Nov 9, 10:12 pm, Giovanni Wassen <exta...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Jan wrote:
> > > I don't recall if we have any data as to whether
> > > the keepers can live independent of a host body, do we?
>
> > Didn't Sheridan receive one hidden in a gift for his son which was
> > 'actived' years later?
>
> Unactivated does mean "alive".
Yes, but active and viable and capable of taking over a host when
revived does mean "not dead", so yeah - they can live independent of a
host body. They just aren't much fun in that condition.
Regards,
Joe
Duggy
> Duggy wrote:
> > On Nov 9, 10:12 pm, Giovanni Wassen <exta...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Jan wrote:
> >> > I don't recall if we have any data as to whether
> >> > the keepers can live independent of a host body, do we?
>
> >> Didn't Sheridan receive one hidden in a gift for his son which was
> >> 'actived' years later?
>
> > Unactivated does mean "alive". Or alive, but in stasis, doesn't mean
> > it can live independantly.
>
> It can survive, which is a part of living.
You can survive on life support doesn't mean you can live without it.
===
= DUG.
===
Wes Struebing
Thanks for the acknowledgement, Joe! <grin>
Actually, I've sort of been just skimming these posts, since several
of them, imho, have come quite close to story ideas...
In this case, Amy, is perhaps more generous than I would have been.
--
Wes Struebing
I pledge allegiance to the Constitution of the United States of America,
and to the republic which it established, one nation from many peoples,
promising liberty and justice for all.
Homepage: www.carpedementem.org
linkedin profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/wesstruebing
Amy Guskin
(in article <829kf5t7fcnmo1v66...@4ax.com>):
> On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 08:32:51 -0800 (PST), Joseph DeMartino
> <jdem...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>> On Nov 10, 8:28 am, Amy Guskin <aisl...@fjordstone.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Sorry, but you are incorrect, and the "no story ideas" prohibition _stays_.
>>
>> Right. Because it isn't "paranoia" when there is an actual risk.
>> <g>
>
> Thanks for the acknowledgement, Joe! <grin>
>
> Actually, I've sort of been just skimming these posts, since several
> of them, imho, have come quite close to story ideas...
>
> In this case, Amy, is perhaps more generous than I would have been. <<
When in doubt, check it out: :-)
http://fjordstone.com/rastb5mod/storyfaq.html
Donald Arseneau
> On Nov 9, 6:54 pm, Stefan <colj...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > One point at last: it wasn't an anti-Sheridan
> > action that took place, but Cpt. Jack was driven
> > to assassinate Number One.
>
> True, but we don't know that that was the *reason* that Capt. Jack got
> the Keeper. He might have been a deep cover agent who was activated
> when a good opportunity presented itself.
I don't know why you have to assume every mission involves B5.
It always seemed pretty clear to me that a request for action went
from Clark to Morden to Shadows to Drakh, and would have been
set in motion some time before. Jack was just someone who had
resistance contacts and was accessible for capture.
Donald Arseneau
Giovanni Wassen
>> >> > I don't recall if we have any data as to whether
>> >> > the keepers can live independent of a host body, do we?
>>
>> >> Didn't Sheridan receive one hidden in a gift for his son which was
>> >> 'actived' years later?
>>
>> > Unactivated does mean "alive". �Or alive, but in stasis, doesn't mean
>> > it can live independantly.
>>
>> It can survive, which is a part of living.
>
> You can survive on life support doesn't mean you can live without it.
And where was that life support? The thing was in some sort of artifact.
Amy Guskin
(in article
<15723692-aab7-48d1...@13g2000prl.googlegroups.com>):
And that's as far as you should go with that speculation.
Matt Ion
> Duggy wrote:
>
>>>>>> I don't recall if we have any data as to whether
>>>>>> the keepers can live independent of a host body, do we?
>>>
>>>>> Didn't Sheridan receive one hidden in a gift for his son which was
>>>>> 'actived' years later?
>>>
>>>> Unactivated does mean "alive". Or alive, but in stasis, doesn't mean
>>>> it can live independantly.
>>>
>>> It can survive, which is a part of living.
>>
>> You can survive on life support doesn't mean you can live without it.
>
> And where was that life support? The thing was in some sort of artifact.
I'd think "hibernation" would be a better description.
Jeffrey Kaplan
> I don't know why you have to assume every mission involves B5.
Didn't Bester say something similar to Sheridan sometime in season 4?
--
Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
The from userid is killfiled Send personal mail to gordol
"There's no price high enough to compensate for being surrounded by
Narns." (Talia Winters, B5 "Legacies")
Duggy
> Previously on rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated, Donald Arseneau said:
>
> > I don't know why you have to assume every mission involves B5.
>
> Didn't Bester say something similar to Sheridan sometime in season 4?
He certainly said it to a trainee Psi-Cop in S5.
===
= DUG.
===
Mel
The irony being, he then had to go to B5 to catch his killer. So yes,
everything *did* center around B5. It's not like the show was called
"Bester and the Psi Corps." :-)
Mel
Cheryl Martin
Amy Guskin <ais...@fjordstone.com> wrote:
>>> On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 21:42:48 -0500, Wes Struebing wrote
>(in article <829kf5t7fcnmo1v66...@4ax.com>):
>
>> On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 08:32:51 -0800 (PST), Joseph DeMartino
>> <jdem...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On Nov 10, 8:28�am, Amy Guskin <aisl...@fjordstone.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Sorry, but you are incorrect, and the "no story ideas" prohibition _stays_.
>>>
>>> Right. Because it isn't "paranoia" when there is an actual risk.
>>> <g>
>>
>> Thanks for the acknowledgement, Joe! <grin>
>>
>> Actually, I've sort of been just skimming these posts, since several
>> of them, imho, have come quite close to story ideas...
>>
>> In this case, Amy, is perhaps more generous than I would have been. <<
>
>When in doubt, check it out: :-)
>
>http://fjordstone.com/rastb5mod/storyfaq.html
And no, we aren't changing the charter. End of Story (ideas).
Cheryl
(who really needs to comb through the FAQs and make sure they are
up-to-date)
--
*Moderator: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated ,sci.space.moderated *
*http://www.grumpywitch.org http://dragonnette.livejournal.com *
*I am grey. I stand between the candle and the star. We are grey. *
*We stand between the darkness and the light. ---JMS *
Duggy
> The irony being, he then had to go to B5 to catch his killer. So yes,
> everything *did* center around B5. It's not like the show was called
> "Bester and the Psi Corps." :-)
I always thought it would be funny if Bester was able to enter the
real world... just to see how pissed he'd be that he only existed on a
show called B5.
===
= DUG.
===
David E. Powell
David E. Powell
Last Action Bester?
> ===
> = DUG.
> ===
Duggy
wrote:
Purple Rose of Babylon 5.
===
= DUG.
===
Dennis (Icarus)
"Amy Guskin" <ais...@fjordstone.com> wrote in message
news:0001HW.C71ED4CB...@news.eternal-september.org...
>>> On Mon, 9 Nov 2009 16:36:52 -0500, Davej wrote
> (in article
>>
>> The story is ten years dead. I don't think we need the paranoia about
>> minor story ideas. <<
>
> Oh yes, we do. Ten years dead? You might have forgotten a little thing
> called "Lost Tales" that came out in 2007. And the fact that JMS has
> repeatedly said that he would be willing to produce more B5 again under
> favorable conditions.
>
> Sorry, but you are incorrect, and the "no story ideas" prohibition
> _stays_.
But JMS says in asked and answered IV pg 1190 that story ideas are worthless
and that it's the execution that matters. ;-)
<ducking>
<peeking out>
Seriously now, Davej, the lawyers disagree with that assessment, as has been
pointed out. Even if groundless, the suit would typically be more trouble
than it's worth. That's been explained here before, IIRC.
It all depends on what you want. - story ideas or JMS. We can't have both on
the same forum/newsgroup/etc.
Dennis
.
Matt Ion
Maybe he could hang out with the Holodeck Moriarty.