Dark Forces Demo
Chuck Jordan
>Actually, it was the look up and look down and centerview that I had
>a hard time finding a convenient location for. Getting blasted from
>above while I fumble to look up and still dodge blaster shots isnt
>too much fun :-)
Granted, but luckily the stormtroopers in the demo seem to be just as stupid
as the stormtroopers in the movies. They had plenty of opportunities to blast
me from behind, but instead they ran (or, briskly walked) in front of me,
said "Hey, there he is!" and waited for me to shoot them. They apparently
haven't figured out how to open doors, either, although they can see through
walls -- I was running in an empty room and heard somebody shout "You're
not authorized here!"
As for looking up and looking down, I think the default PageDn,
PageUp, End combination is okay. I really like the fact that you actually have
to aim to shoot upwards or downwards, unlike DOOM. (I've been very frustrated
in DOOM deathmatches watching all my rockets go into the wall just below the
person I was aiming for.)
>I like the HUD, too. I was talking about the separate map display on the
>PDA. I like the smoothing scrolling in ID's implementation. Again, just
>a minor nitpick from somebody who spends too much time working with
>human factors psychology people designing interfaces :-)
After playing the demo a few (dozen) more times, I see what you mean.
The whole PDA is kind of inconvenient, but I didn't really see the need to
use it that often, when you have the HUD. I don't get what you mean about
the "smooth scrolling," though, because again you can do everything from
the map display on your HUD that you can with the one on the PDA. (In fact,
you can leave the map up while you run around blasting things, which is
something you can't do in DOOM. It's more important in Dark Forces,
apparently, because you supposedly have mission objectives you have to
complete.)
Incidentally, I think that you can never get too nitpicky about
computer interfaces. I'm a Windows programmer (listen... the stuff I make...
it's powerful... yeah, right) and apparently, the company I work for doesn't
understand that a GUI is supposed to make things SIMPLER for the user.
I wish there were more people like you!
>Yeah, I'm sure that the same will be true of Dark Forces. Even based on
>the demo, the game will be great.
Good. I hope that LucasArts is considering this demo to be a kind of beta
version, and are listening to suggestions from the fans (INCLUDE
MULTIPLAYER CAPABILITY.) There are definitely a few things I would like
to change, but as for now, I feel like a junkie who's just had a huge load of
smack dropped on his doorstep. (Good analogy, huh?)
Chuck
Chuck Jordan
>It still bugs me, though, in the same way that having the friendlies
>in TIE Fighter colored red and the bad guys colored green...
Well, the "friendlies" in TIE Fighter are the bad guys and the good guys are
your... oh, never mind. I have to admit that my first impulse whenever I
play TF is to shoot the other TIE Fighters. If I could just let go of my anger,
soon my training would be complete...
>While I think multiplayer capability is cool, I think I can understand
>why it wasn't included. [...]
>In Dark Forces, which seems much more
>goal- and plot-oriented than Doom, it could be that having players kill
>each other wouldn't "fit." Of course, they could fit it in by having
>multiple Rebel operatives work together as a team to accomplish goals
>(cool), or by having an Imperial-employed Bounty Hunter trying to thwart
>the Rebel operative's mission (also cool).
Yeah, I was kind of iffy about the whole thing when I saw the first
slideshow of DF -- LucasArts always makes sure that the game fits in with
the story (in all their SW stuff, and in games like Day of the Tentacle and
Monkey Island and so on.) The guys at id always say that they had a big
storyline planned out for DOOM, but it just got in the way of the action.
That's one way of looking at it, I guess, but I think it's also part of what
makes DOOM, even the retail version, seem like shareware and DF seem
like a professional product. DOOM gets real old real fast; the only reason
I play anymore is to build a new level or to play a deathmatch. As for the
story, I still haven't played through the whole game yet, because I don't
really care what happens. I'm sure that in DF, I'm going to look forward to
finishing each level just so I can see the following cutscene.
In the opening scrolling text of the demo of DF, though, it says
that Kyle Katarn is a "mercenary for hire." Wouldn't it be plausible to say
that the Rebellion hired more than one mercenary for the mission(s)? Then,
as you said, you could play as multiple operatives going after the same goal
(interesting), or as multiple operatives trying to knock each other off so that
you'll be the first to get to the goal (more interesting.) Regardless, the
Star Wars universe doesn't really lend itself well to mindless deathmatches,
so the guys at LA have their work cut out for them if they do plan to introduce
multiplayer capability into the game. But, as much as I love LA's games
(they easily make the best games of any software publisher, IMO), I don't
play them as often as DOOM, which I consider to be an inferior product. The
reason is that there's little replay value.
Chuck
Jerry B. Ray
say, it sucks trying to get on with the 100 user limit, but it pays off
when I transferred the stuff at 50K/sec.
To be honest, I'm not terribly impressed with the game. Maybe I'm just
used to Doom. The laser rifle sounds just don't match up to a good old
shotgun blast. The shouts from the enemies, and the bit of "talking
to yourself" were nice touches. There's too many controls, though I'm
sure with some experience I'll find a good arrangement. The wall and
floor textures are too similar, so it's hard to tell what you're looking
at at times. corners aren't very well defined. The controls on the
interfaces, particularly the map, are annoying. I hate having to click
the mouse or use discreet arrow pushes to scroll text and the map.
This needs to be fixed. The cutscenes were pretty nice, though. I'll
buy it, regardless, but I hope some additional refinements come
through in the final release.
JRjr
--
'Summer's going fast, nights growing colder
Children growing up, old friends growing older
The innocence slips away...'--Rush, Time Stand Still
##### vap...@prism.gatech.EDU ######## Jerry B. Ray, Jr. ################
hra...@cloud9.net
: Well, I finally got the playable demo from ftp.uwp.edu last night. I must
: say, it sucks trying to get on with the 100 user limit, but it pays off
: when I transferred the stuff at 50K/sec.
ncftp -r -d 0 ftp.uwp.edu
: To be honest, I'm not terribly impressed with the game. Maybe I'm just
: used to Doom. The laser rifle sounds just don't match up to a good old
: shotgun blast. The shouts from the enemies, and the bit of "talking
: to yourself" were nice touches. There's too many controls, though I'm
I liked it alot. I didn't like the fact that you can't strafe with a 4
button joystick. I hope this will be changed in the release. Looking up
and down is a real pain. It's also pretty slow on a 486/33DX - but that's
my fault I guess. I didn't bother to download the intro/endtro - because I
am buying the game regardless. Have had a CD-ROM drive for a while with no
titles for it, real smart.
- Zorro -
Jerry B. Ray <vap...@prism.gatech.edu> wrote:
>Well, I finally got the playable demo from ftp.uwp.edu last night. I must
>say, it sucks trying to get on with the 100 user limit, but it pays off
>when I transferred the stuff at 50K/sec.
>
>To be honest, I'm not terribly impressed with the game. Maybe I'm just
>used to Doom. The laser rifle sounds just don't match up to a good old
>shotgun blast. The shouts from the enemies, and the bit of "talking
>to yourself" were nice touches. There's too many controls, though I'm
>sure with some experience I'll find a good arrangement. The wall and
>floor textures are too similar, so it's hard to tell what you're looking
>at at times. corners aren't very well defined. The controls on the
>interfaces, particularly the map, are annoying. I hate having to click
>the mouse or use discreet arrow pushes to scroll text and the map.
>This needs to be fixed. The cutscenes were pretty nice, though. I'll
>buy it, regardless, but I hope some additional refinements come
>through in the final release.
>
I have Doom, Doom ][ and Aliens-TC. I will never play them again.
This ONE level of Dark Forces is better that all of the above.
There are not too many controls, my arangement follows.
/ = Duck <Ctrl> = Fire
<RShift> = Run \ = Jump (\ is between shift and alt on my keyboard.)
z = Secondary
The map is great and easy to use. Focus on the map or focus in front of it.
Corners are well defined I don't even know where you got this one.
I must say how ever that their nodebuilder could use a little more work.
But when you lay that claymore down armed for proximity (z not ctrl) and see
the storm trooper go flying 10 feet in the air, you don't even care about
nodes anymore. When you trip the switch that makes unlimited storm troopers
and probe droids your having too much fun killing storm troopers with the
morter launcher to care.
Chuck Jordan
Who'd a thunk it?
In article <3dv257$b...@acmex.gatech.edu>, vap...@prism.gatech.edu says...
>To be honest, I'm not terribly impressed with the game. Maybe I'm just
>used to Doom. [...] There's too many controls, though I'm
>sure with some experience I'll find a good arrangement.
Well, I can see how you would say... huh?!? The controls are identical to
DOOM, they just add a look up and look down, conveniently located over the
arrow keys, and a jump and crouch, conveniently located near the fire and
strafe keys. What could be simpler? Although I must admit that shooting one
of those little rolling droids is maddening.
>The controls on the
>interfaces, particularly the map, are annoying. I hate having to click
>the mouse or use discreet arrow pushes to scroll text and the map.
>This needs to be fixed.
I think the HUD is brilliant. It's a great effect, running around with the map
scrolling in front of you and it's completely natural -- a lot more convenient
than id's implementation. I do wish that your inventory window told you
what everything is -- I had picked up a key but missed the text at the top of
the screen and I had no idea what I had picked up.
>I'll
>buy it, regardless, but I hope some additional refinements come
>through in the final release.
Well, I don't know if you saw the demo for Tie Fighter or not -- I was really
looking forward to buying TF, until I saw the demo. There didn't seem to
be any improvements in the graphics, and it just seemed like a rehashed
version of X-Wing. Of course, I bought the game anyway and it was almost
a different game -- lots of new stuff. Maybe the same will be true with DF.
I was floored by the demo. I have had an unhealthy obsession with this
game for months now -- I think I've seen the slideshows about fifty times
each -- so my expectations were high, and they were pretty much met. The
game runs just fine on my 486 SX-25, which was the biggest surprise, since
DOOM feels like running through molasses, even at a much smaller screen
size. I think the "letterbox" effect (if you're one of us unlucky few who have
to run in a smaller window) is a really classy idea. I'm also impressed with
the moving spaceship that comes in for a landing, the Death Star hologram,
and especially that it's a true 3d environment, unlike DOOM. (Somebody
had better start hacking out a level editor now, before the game comes out!)
On the whole, I think it's a lot classier than DOOM. The textures
and sprite animations are definitely much better, although the animations for
the main character's hands and weapon could be improved. The game
hasn't even been released yet, and I'm already looking forward to the
expansion disks!
I still won't rest until they add multiplayer capability, though...
Chuck
Mark Nelson
: In article <3dv257$b...@acmex.gatech.edu>,
I think I missed something in the demo. Where did you find mines?
They only weapon I could use were my two guns or my fists. Whats Up?
: >JRjr
: >--
: >'Summer's going fast, nights growing colder
: > Children growing up, old friends growing older
: > The innocence slips away...'--Rush, Time Stand Still
: >##### vap...@prism.gatech.EDU ######## Jerry B. Ray, Jr. ################
--
Mark Nelson
(nel...@mhd1.moorhead.msus.edu) "Diplomacy is the art of letting
(nel...@dragon.moorhead.msus.edu) other people get your way."
- Zorro -
>They only weapon I could use were my two guns or my fists. Whats Up?
hri...@cloud9.something asked me this and I gave a brief explanation which
was about 60+ lines long and I really don't feel like doing a repeat, so
you get the SUPER-Breif version.
In Dark Forces (tm) there are a total of 8 weapons in the demo. When
wondering in the outside you may notice that there are ovals filled with
cracks on the faces of some of the ROCK. A blaster won't blow them
open. You must use the Thermal Detonators. These are found by tripping
a swtich on a pillar and jumping across the hall way you start in.
X-tra Weapons
4 thermal detonators (1st contact 2nd Timer)
5 auto gun ---+\___ Use
6 fusion cutter---+/~~~ Same Ammo
7 claymores (1st Timer 2nd Proximity)
8 mortar launcher
X-tra Bad Guys
Gamorian Guards
Rodian Grenade Tossers
Imperial Torture Driods
Light Saber Training Driod
Imperial Probe Driods
- Zorro -
I just have a few add ons to my previous post here.
The Auto Gun:
*Primary Fire: Fire one round and is a little more powerful than a blaster
bolt.
*Secondary Fire: Fires a 3 round <triangle> and will kill ANY imperial
dead. Hell it knocks a storm trooper back 30'.
The Fusion Cutter:
*Primary Fire: Fire a bolt from one of its 4 tubes. More powerful than
a blaster but a bitch to aim with because it cycles which
tube fires.
*Secondary Fire: Fires a bolt from EACH tube simultaniuosly. This will
totally mow down storm troopers, or anything, that are
standing close together.
Thermal Detonators:
*Holding down the respective fire buttons increases the distence of the
throw.
Vioce of Kyle Katarn:
Am I the only one who think he sounds like Brisco County Jr. aka Ash
of Evil Dead, Evil Dead II, and Army of Darkness?
Imperials Torture Driods:
*They don't do damage to shields they do damage THROUGH shields.
Hint:
You can start with a blaster rifle by killing a guy with one, picking it up
and aborting the mission.
PS- Your punch does more damage than a blaster.
PPS- I REALLY LOVE this game.
Jerry B. Ray
>I can't let this blasphemy go unchallenged.
Sheesh, take a valium :-)
>There are not too many controls, my arangement follows.
>/ = Duck <Ctrl> = Fire
><RShift> = Run \ = Jump (\ is between shift and alt on my keyboard.)
>z = Secondary
(just a note-I play with keyboard controls only, coz I really don't like
the mouse, though I realize that it's better. Getting my butt kicked
by a mouse player in Deathmatch Doom convinced me of that...)
Like I said, the added controls will just take some getting used to. The
controls that particularly bothered me were the look up/down and center
view.
>The map is great and easy to use. Focus on the map or focus in front of it.
I was talking about the map display screen, not the HUD. The interface
for scrolling the map around is annoying. I prefer the smooth-scrolling
map in Doom. Personal preference. The HUD is pretty cool. I don't
like having to use multiple keypresses to scroll through the mission
briefing either. Again, just nitpick from working around too many
human factors people...
>Corners are well defined I don't even know where you got this one.
I was referring to the "outside" area of the demo level, where there
are a number of sharp "corners". From a distance, it's hard to tell
exactly what you're looking at.
>I must say how ever that their nodebuilder could use a little more work.
What's a nodebuilder?
>But when you lay that claymore down armed for proximity (z not ctrl) and see
>the storm trooper go flying 10 feet in the air, you don't even care about
>nodes anymore. When you trip the switch that makes unlimited storm troopers
>and probe droids your having too much fun killing storm troopers with the
>morter launcher to care.
Apparently, I missed a few things...
Jerry B. Ray
>Well, I can see how you would say... huh?!? The controls are identical to
>DOOM, they just add a look up and look down, conveniently located over the
>arrow keys, and a jump and crouch, conveniently located near the fire and
>strafe keys.
Actually, it was the look up and look down and centerview that I had
a hard time finding a convenient location for. Getting blasted from
above while I fumble to look up and still dodge blaster shots isnt
too much fun :-)
>I think the HUD is brilliant. It's a great effect, running around with the map
>scrolling in front of you and it's completely natural -- a lot more convenient
>than id's implementation.
I like the HUD, too. I was talking about the separate map display on the
PDA. I like the smoothing scrolling in ID's implementation. Again, just
a minor nitpick from somebody who spends too much time working with
human factors psychology people designing interfaces :-)
>Well, I don't know if you saw the demo for Tie Fighter or not -- I was really
>looking forward to buying TF, until I saw the demo. There didn't seem to
Yeah, I'm sure that the same will be true of Dark Forces. Even based on
the demo, the game will be great. With the refinements I'm sure are still
to come, it's gonna rock.
Jerry B. Ray
> As for looking up and looking down, I think the default PageDn,
>PageUp, End combination is okay.
Yeah, but the way my keyboard is arranged, I use delete and pagedown (which
are right above the arrowpad, as my left and right strafes. Still, with
some experience, I'm sure I can find a good way to arrange the stuff.
>After playing the demo a few (dozen) more times, I see what you mean.
>The whole PDA is kind of inconvenient, but I didn't really see the need to
>use it that often, when you have the HUD.
Yeah, the only time you might really need to use the PDA that I can see is
if you want to examine the map closely without fear of getting shot up
while you're looking at it.
>I don't get what you mean about
>the "smooth scrolling," though, because again you can do everything from
>the map display on your HUD that you can with the one on the PDA.
It's a minor nit pick, really. In the map display in Doom, when you use
the arrow keys to look around the map, it just "slides" continuously
around. In Dark Forces on the PDA, the map "blips" along with each
keypress, even when you hold the arrow key down. Like I said, minor.
It still bugs me, though, in the same way that having the friendlies
in TIE Fighter colored red and the bad guys colored green...
>Good. I hope that LucasArts is considering this demo to be a kind of beta
>version, and are listening to suggestions from the fans (INCLUDE
>MULTIPLAYER CAPABILITY.)
While I think multiplayer capability is cool, I think I can understand
why it wasn't included. In Doom, where the main objective was to run
around and kill stuff, it wasn't much of a stretch to have players run
around and kill each other. In Dark Forces, which seems much more
goal- and plot-oriented than Doom, it could be that having players kill
each other wouldn't "fit." Of course, they could fit it in by having
multiple Rebel operatives work together as a team to accomplish goals
(cool), or by having an Imperial-employed Bounty Hunter trying to thwart
the Rebel operative's mission (also cool). They could do it, but they'd
just have to fit it into the plot somehow.
hra...@cloud9.net
: was about 60+ lines long and I really don't feel like doing a repeat, so
: you get the SUPER-Breif version.
Here's what you sent me...
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah I knew this would get peoples attention.
Ok in the first room that you see a little black robot running around you
have to hit the circle to open up the wall to below. After you open the wall
the pillars still remain on one of the pillars there is a switch that opens a
secret. Go back up to the little robot and circle and look across to thep
pillar you triped the switch on. You will see an opening you have to run
and jump in it. You will get 5 thermal detonators. You will use the thermal
detonators to blow holes in the rock face out side. When you see a oval shape
crossed by cracks in the rockface throw a thermal detonator at it, and it must
land RIGHT next to the cracks or on them. There is 1 hole on the ground or
first level and 3 on the second level which means learing how to run and jump
is imperitive.
The one where you get a preview of all the weapons, and mosters. (Fusion Cutter
and Gamorian Guards to name two) You have to get to the platform outside the rroom with the first little black robot where this whole damn process starts.
At the corner of the platform there is a hole to be in the rock face, so open
it and jump in. The holes are pitch black so press <f5> for the head light.
there will apear to be nothing in the whole go in as deep as possible and press
<space> and a secret switch will be revealed which reveals another switch in the
same room. This last switch lowers some major walls and revels a very
importanimportant looking door. You can take it from here.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I was a little confused but was able to find all the secrets. To put it
simply. There is secret door on the first floor, three on the second
level. The one of the first floor is east to find, the three on the third
floor are 1) Jump across to the 3 shield power-ups, there is a small ledge
you can jump to from there. You will see the cracks there. 2) Walk down
the same ledge as the first hole, there is the second one. 3) There is a
portion to the second floor where you jump across a small ledge. This is
the room you can see from the room that you used the red key to get to.
There will be tons of shield power-ups and energy charges. Look across the
ledge _very_ carefully and you will see a cracked wall. Hit it with a
detonatior and jump across to it. Turn on your headlights and feel around
till you find the secret door. This will open an area where you find a
switch, hit the switch and another one will appear. Hit it and... Well see
for yourself.
Thanks again Zoro for the help.
Ryo-Oh-Ki
>bubba.ucc.okstate.edu!newsfeed.ksu.ksu.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!ho
>wland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!matlock.mindspring.com!nntp.mindspring.
>com!usenet
>From: to...@mindspring.com (Chuck Jordan)
>Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
>Subject: Re: Dark Forces Demo
>Date: Sun, 25 Dec 94 15:29:26 PST
>Organization: Deep 13
>Lines: 50
>Message-ID: <3e4ev1$2...@henri.mindspring.com>
>References: <3dv257$b...@acmex.gatech.edu> <3e2o96$a...@henri.mindspring.com>
><3e4739$6...@acmex.gatech.edu>
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>In article <3e4739$6...@acmex.gatech.edu>, vap...@prism.gatech.edu says...
>>Actually, it was the look up and look down and centerview that I had
>>a hard time finding a convenient location for. Getting blasted from
>>above while I fumble to look up and still dodge blaster shots isnt
>>too much fun :-)
Hmm. It seems that as games get more advanced, they start requiring more
expensive hardware. Other, better examples aside, I find that playing DF
on a Thrustmaster joystick is better than mouse or keyboard, because the
hat switch can be used for aiming up and down quickly. Of course, that's
just me, and all my friends are throwing rotten tomatoes at me for even
thinking of using a flight stick for DF. Sigh.
>Granted, but luckily the stormtroopers in the demo seem to be just
as stupid>as the stormtroopers in the movies. They had plenty of
opportunities to blast>me from behind, but instead they ran (or, briskly
walked) in front of me,>said "Hey, there he is!" and waited for me to shoot
them. They apparently>haven't figured out how to open doors, either, although
they can see through>walls -- I was running in an empty room and heard
somebody shout "You're>not authorized here!"
Heh, heh. No kidding. When Ben said "Only Imperial Stormtroopers are this
accurate", he must have meant that they were accurate from a certain point of
view, i.e. the only other suspects, the Tusken Raiders, were even worse shots.
"Look, commander. It's a sandcrawler, not fifty feet away."
"Hmm. It might be harboring the droids we're looking for. Blast it!"
(Five minutes later)
"I can't seem to hit it! It's like trying to hit the broad side of a barn!"
harboring the