AN OPEN LETTER TO GEORGE LUCAS c/o "admin@thx.com" Re: GREEDO SHOOTING FIRST AND THE STATE OF THE SEs.
Brian Linder
An open letter to George Lucas/Lucasfilm from the most hard core group
of Star Wars fans in the world...RASSM. Unite!
Mr. Lucas,
The Han Greedo confrontation is violent yes, and in today's day and
age violence is something that is looked down upon in certain
liberalistic circles. Bottom line. You didn't want to create a hero
that would commit this sort of violent act. That is understandable.
We wouldn't want little kids seeing the movie for the first time to go
out and grab daddy's shot gun and kill the first green thing they see.
However, this scene was crucial to the development of the Solo
character. The new scene also spoils or weakens the underlying thread
of redemption that takes place throughout the trilogy. Han is
redeemed somewhat and is no longer a self serving smuggler but this
ruins the feeling that he was a bad ass rogue. Han should shoot first
because he is about to be shot. Greedo makes a verbal threat and that
should be all that is needed. Surely you don't believe that a bounty
hunter with the reputation that Greedo apparently had would miss at
such close range??? Also I have heard that the look of the scene is
pitiful and I must say if it is the same as it is on the Making Magic
CD then I agree. I know that this would be unprecedented if you were
to remove this scene now after all the publicity has gone out about
it, but please reconsider. Sure it would look like you bowed down to
the will of the fans, but what is wrong with that? Please change it
now before it's too late!! We have all worked very hard over the past
year to help promote the success of these films because they mean so
much to us. The fact that they have opened to mixed reviews is not
pleasing to us. Please listen to our rants and reviews and take them
to heart. The RASSM group cares about Star Wars as much as you do and
we feel like we are in trouble. We must be heard. All RASSMers
please respond to this message with your opinion on the SE situation
as it stands right now. We can only hope that someone will be
listening. Thanks. Sorry for the rant.
Brian A. Linder
br...@linder.net
-------------------------------------
The Star Wars Trilogy Special Edition
See it again...for the first time!!!!
In theaters on January 31st, 1997.
http://www.starwars.com/
-------------------------------------
Harry Jay Knowles Ain't It Cool News
Special Agent #00000003
http://www.bga.com/~rodan/coolnews.html
CTB
In article <32b7803a...@news.scsn.net>, br...@linder.net says...
I'm sure I speak for all Star Wars fans when I say that there was nothing wrong
with the scene in the first place. If anything, the S.E.s were suposed to
serve as an elaboration of what happened in the trilogy, but by changing this
scene, you are essentially "rewriting history." I hate to say it, but the
changes in this scene smell of PC pressure, something I thought would never
infringe upon the canon of the Star Wars saga, but which I'm afraid has. Don't
make me cover my eyes ever time I go to watch this SE, and don't make me have
to splice in the "correct" version to my home video when this film is released
on tape. I can't accept that you never intended this seen to look this way,
and I'm sure, if he were here, the Lucas of 20 years ago would agree. Please
do not change this scene!
--
Ja, ne...
---Chris Browne---
(Nipponphile Extraordinare)
<<Plati...@brown.edu>>
<<Plati...@hotmail.com>>
Jay Majer
Yes, count me in with Brian Linder and the rest as far as the new Greedo
scene goes. It really does ruin Han's character development, and just
looks bad and awkward.
BTW, Brian, did you mail this to ad...@thx.com? If you did, let us know
if you get a reply.
________________________________________________________________________
Jay Majer This message "Shut up, brain, or I'll
zi...@netcom.com presented in stab you with a Q-tip!"
jma...@ucla.edu ( ( ( ((T H X)) ) ) ) -Homer Simpson
________________________________________________________________________
Rich Handley
Well, I'm suddenly reminded of a comment I made a couple of weeks ago, about painting a mustache on
the Mona Lisa.....
Later!
Rich Handley (Card...@unix.asb.com)
Visit "The Exhaustive Guide to Star Wars Comics"
at http://www.asb.com/usr/cardsafe/intro.htm
(I don't use any profanity in my sig, but I have
no problem with it, either...)
Rakelle
When I first heard of the special editions, I was (of course) thrilled.
It would give me the chance to see SW in a theatre, and details from
the originals would be improved.
But as I've heard more and more about what would actually be changed,
I've become quite disheartened. Adding Jabba, adding Boba Fett, adding
celebrations in ROTJ, and now to hear Greedo shoots first???? *sigh*
The way things are going I don't even mind the fact that the SE's come
here in March....
What in heaven's name possessed Lucas to do these things????
Rakelle
Michael Bates
CTB wrote:
>
>
> I'm sure I speak for all Star Wars fans when I say that there was nothing wrong
> with the scene in the first place. If anything, the S.E.s were suposed to
> serve as an elaboration of what happened in the trilogy, but by changing this
> scene, you are essentially "rewriting history." I hate to say it, but the
> changes in this scene smell of PC pressure, something I thought would never
> infringe upon the canon of the Star Wars saga, but which I'm afraid has. Don't
> make me cover my eyes ever time I go to watch this SE, and don't make me have
> to splice in the "correct" version to my home video when this film is released
> on tape. I can't accept that you never intended this seen to look this way,
> and I'm sure, if he were here, the Lucas of 20 years ago would agree. Please
> do not change this scene!
>
> --
> Ja, ne...
> ---Chris Browne---
> (Nipponphile Extraordinare)
> <<Plati...@brown.edu>>
> <<Plati...@hotmail.com>>
This sounds a lot like New Coke.
--
========================================================================
[ .= [ mailto:mi...@best.com ]
[ | .----. [ http://www.best.com/~mikeb ]
[ | / '` \ ===============================================
[ [|-~~==~~-| ]
[ [|/`\[]/`\| "Difficult to see, ]
[ || |[]| || always in motion is the future." ]
[ || |[]| | --Yoda ]
[ `-|[]|-` ]
[___==\\\=`======`-...___===============================================
Ted603
The SE's are quite needed.
First of all, the prints and masters were degrading.
Secondly, the Trillogy is quite flawed FX wise, and could use a fresh coat
of digital paint.
Thirdly, I don't know what the fuss is over Jabba, he was supposed to be
in Star Wars, ANH, but was cut for buget and time reasons.
So if you think about it, all the "changes" were something Lucas wanted to
do in 1977 but couldn't. As far as the Greedo/Han conferentation, I'm not
sure why it's changing, but as long as it looks fine I'm sure I'll like
it.
I'd imagine this is how 1'st century Jews felt when the scribes started
inserting the new testament in the bible.
Don't worry, fanboys and fangirls, Luke will allways have bad hair. (No
CGI wizard could ever hope to fix that)
-Ted
- - - - Grrrr-roovy! - - - -
Dave McCrate
I believe I have to concur with the silliness of Greedo shooting
at Han first. That scene was so tense and exciting in the original film.
It was actually one of my favourites because it had that "old west flavor".
I really feel that this blatant alteration of he original could really
hurt the film. Probably not everyone will mind so much, just the diehard
fans who have watched The trilogy on crummy videotapes and USA for the
last 15 years.
Dave
Jennifer Grimaud
I have to say that I agree with those who feel that the original "Star
Wars" has been screwed with. I'm among the group of first generation fans
who saw it in the theater long ago and ANH is still my favorite. One of
the reasons I like the old ANH is that it doesn't have the 'slick' look of
the later films. The visual style matches the Tatooine setting and the
entire feel of the film perfectly. You can tell that it was made by
people who weren't really sure about the potential success of the film but
wanted to tell a good story anyway.
I'm really saddened to see what Lucas has allowed to be done with his
creation (SOTE, rashes of bad novellas). I can only hope and pray that
when the time comes, the prequel will be a return to the 'pure' Star Wars
universe, with no bows to marketing or commercialism. I'm convinced that
if done right that at least one of the prequels, most likely the third,
could walk away with the top Oscars. (A science fiction film winning Best
Picture/Director/Actor/etc. Imagine! :> ) What would really make this a
possibility would be Lucas himself directing. He has an unduplicatable
visual style and the ability to draw the very best from the actors. These
films have the potential to be as classic as our original Star Wars. At
least it's the old SW that the US Congress voted to preserve and that is
the one that will be seen a hundred years from now.
Please George, we need the pure myth again.
J.P.M. Grimaud *
ver...@primenet.com * *
SAMelching
** WARNING: SPOILERS AHOY! **
The Greedo thing really, really sucks. Plus it looks TERRIBLE
on screen, since it wasn't originally filmed that way. Instead
of quick, tight shots, we get a wider shot of the entire
booth. A really cheesy-looking laser beam flies out of Greedo's
gun at a strange angle, so as to "miss" Han Solo, who of course
is sitting only 2 feet away. Solo doesn't even flinch, and a
cheesy laser beam shoots over at Greedo. Words can't describe
how goofy it looked. I am happy to report that the majority
of the people sitting in the theater I was in (including myself)
HISSED and BOOED.
As for the Boba Fett thing... it's actually kinda goofy too. He
first appears very early in the scene, stepping into the frame
on the right side to stand beside Jabba. It's kinda subtle, and
reasonably cool.
He pretty much disappears for the rest of the scene until the
very end... when he steps into frame almost in close-up...
AND THEN PAUSES AND LOOKS RIGHT INTO THE CAMERA!
Corny....
But what irks me most about this bit is that it cheapens the
character of Boba Fett even more than he already was in ROTJ.
He was COOL in TESB, a mysterious bounty hunter who worked
for the highest bidder. A real badass.
But now with the SW:SE (taken with the way he was portrayed
in ROTJ), he becomes just another of Jabba's henchmen. A
cooler-looking henchman, maybe, but a gun-totin' flunky
nevertheless. Even a bodyguard.
As for Jabba, he comes off as a kind of nice guy. Almost
pitiful. He jokes around with Han and ultimately lets him
go. That fact that he stopped by in person the see Han
made him seem less of a crime overlord. I suppose it
could mean that Jabba isn't that much of a bigshot yet,
but still...
Another big problem with this scene is that it doesn't tell
us anything *new*. It's basically a replay of the scene with
Greedo (ie: "Where's my stuff?"/"I had to dump it"/"Okay, but
you owe me"). It's kind of a distraction (especially since
the Jabba CGI effects aren't totally convincing, IMHO).
That's all I have to say about that.
And as always: JUST SAY NO TO GREEDO SHOOTING FIRST!!!
Steve
("Better to keep your mouth shut and risk looking like
an idiot than open your mouth and confirm it")
Eplicon
> I have to say that I agree with those who feel that the original "Star
Ever since I heard they were doing the SEs, I greeted it with a mixed
emotion. One, I'll be glad to be seeing the trilogy on the big screen
again. On the other hand, I am wondering why in the world would Lucas
want to tamper with something that's really not broken? After JEDI came
out, a lot of fans were inquiring if Lucas would ever put out the movies
as "director's cuts," etc. And for the longest time we were told that all
three movies were the *final* versions, as envisioned by their respective
directors. Any changes then would compromise their artistic integrity.
Things change, I guess.
MA Kribble
On 19 Dec 1996, Eplicon wrote:
> ....After JEDI came
> out, a lot of fans were inquiring if Lucas would ever put out the movies
> as "director's cuts," etc. And for the longest time we were told that all
> three movies were the *final* versions, as envisioned by their respective
> directors.
Soooo, the question du jour: have Kershner (is he still alive?) and/or
Marquand been consulted about the changes in their work? Or are the SEs
comparable to the long version of Dune which, IIRC, no longer credits
David Lynch with the direction because he didn't approve of it?
Meg
Bryan L. Brown
Does the injustice heaped upon the artistic and intelligent people of
society by the warm blooded and furry paws of political correctness have no
end? For lovers of science fiction, Star Wars was always an escape from
movies in which the good guys were really good and the bad guys already
paid rent on their shack in hell. But alas! The days of marauding laser
blasts fired by indiscriminate Storm Troopers, ruthless smugglers and
bounty hunters who would sell their mothers for a few credits are gone. In
their place have appeared smugglers whose conscience overrides their sense
of self preservation and a Jabba who probably sends his mother Christmas
cards. What was Lucas thinking. I respect the man far too much to hurl
insults, but what was he thinking?
I suppose we're lucky. Had he been feeling more industrious in his, no
doubt, delerious state of mind, we might have seen Governor Tarkin send
Leia to therapy and rehabilitation rather than signing the order for her
execution, perhaps Master Yoda and Obi Wan would begin a support group for
Jedi on the run, and instead of blowing up the Death Star, we'll hire a
good lawyer and obtain a restraining order to keep the battle station out
of firing range of the base on Yavin.
OK--so I got a little melodramatic, but these movies are part of my life.
I grew up in a world impacted by Star Wars. As a matter of fact, Star Wars
was my life between 5 and 8 years of age. Just don't be suprised to see a
young Obi Wan very concerned with the preservation of his favorite aquatic
mammals and dealing with his gender dysphoria in the prequils.
Bryan Lyle Brown
Rakelle <s7...@ii.uib.no> wrote in article <32B803...@ii.uib.no>...
> When I first heard of the special editions, I was (of course) thrilled.
> It would give me the chance to see SW in a theatre, and details from
> the originals would be improved.
> But as I've heard more and more about what would actually be changed,
> I've become quite disheartened. Adding Jabba, adding Boba Fett, adding
> celebrations in ROTJ, and now to hear Greedo shoots first???? *sigh*
> The way things are going I don't even mind the fact that the SE's come
> here in March....
> What in heaven's name possessed Lucas to do these things????
>
>
> Rakelle
>
Paul Gunther
> br...@linder.net
> -------------------------------------
> The Star Wars Trilogy Special Edition
> See it again...for the first time!!!!
> In theaters on January 31st, 1997.
> http://www.starwars.com/
> -------------------------------------
> Harry Jay Knowles Ain't It Cool News
> Special Agent #00000003
> http://www.bga.com/~rodan/coolnews.html
I agree completely. I was four when I saw Star Wars in the theater, and
never for a moment did I doubt that Han did the right thing. The threat
by Greedo was clear and to the point, and even at four I understood
that. "He may only take your ship." "Over my dead body." "That's the
idea." I knew even at that young age that Han's actions were out of
self-defense, and that if he didn't shoot then he wouldn't have the
chance to later.
I am also greatly chagrined to hear that Lucas is changing this. This
scene has become one of my favorites from the first film, and I was
greatly upset when I first learned on the Ultimate Special Edition Page
(which is now known as Red 5) that Lucas was going to change this. I
even e-mailed Steven Koukoulas and asked how accurate this was, and he
told me that, while he couldn't vouch for it being gospel, he had reason
to believe that it was true. I was very upset. I am still upset. I have
talked to people who saw this scene at the screening in Woodland Hills,
and have heard nothing but bad things. Normally I don't like to base my
opinions on those of others, but since I feel that this changes the
motivation of the Han character and makes the dynamic of his evolution
that much less interesting and involving, I feel I must protest. I think
that to institute this change would be a great disservice to the film,
to the character of Han Solo, and to the fans, none of whom, I believe,
ever thought that Han's life was in anything less than imminent jeopary.
The shot by Greedo is unnecessary, and alters the integrity of Han Solo.
Please keep the scene as is.
Paul
Paul Gunther
Yes, Kirschner is still alive. And he's happy with the changes being
made to ESB, perhaps because ESB is being touched the least of all three
films. The effects are being cleaned up, the sound will be improved, a
few parts of the music might be changed slightly, and the fight between
Luke and the Wampa is being extended a bit, but otherwise they're
leaving it alone. That may sound like a lot, but comparatively it's not.
ROTJ is really only getting the one new scene, with the celebrations
after the Death Star blows up, and that's not too bad. But it makes
sense that Lucas would want to change ANH of all of them, that being the
one he directed, and especially since he was never happy with it in the
first place, so much so that he hasn't directed a film since.
What really surprises me is that he is not trying to change the trash
compactor scene, which I always felt was great, but he was always
disappointed with.
Paul
Brian Linder
Kershner is very much alive. However Marquand passed away some years
ago. This whole thing is starting to stink more and more.
On Thu, 19 Dec 1996 11:42:19 -0600, MA Kribble
<kri...@students.uiuc.edu> wrote:
>On 19 Dec 1996, Eplicon wrote:
>> ....After JEDI came
>> out, a lot of fans were inquiring if Lucas would ever put out the movies
>> as "director's cuts," etc. And for the longest time we were told that all
>> three movies were the *final* versions, as envisioned by their respective
>> directors.
>
>Soooo, the question du jour: have Kershner (is he still alive?) and/or
>Marquand been consulted about the changes in their work? Or are the SEs
>comparable to the long version of Dune which, IIRC, no longer credits
>David Lynch with the direction because he didn't approve of it?
>
>Meg
Brian A. Linder
happ...@aol.com
In article <Pine.SOL.3.91.961219...@ux9.cso.uiuc.edu>, MA
Kribble <kri...@students.uiuc.edu> writes:
>Soooo, the question du jour: have Kershner (is he still alive?) and/or
>Marquand been consulted about the changes in their work? Or are the SEs
>comparable to the long version of Dune which, IIRC, no longer credits
>David Lynch with the direction because he didn't approve of it?
Marquand is dead and Empire apparently is not going to be too messed with.
I doubt that Lucas would consult Kershner even if he were to reshoot half
the film. Lucas is the man in charge.
- General Sai
(Happy)
another Official RASSM Cool Person.
and THE head of the JTFC's shock troops.
"He said it in HUTTESE!! Everyone is supposed to know Huttese!!!"
- an angry George
Lucas
Gerthein Boersma
The one and only Rakelle <s7...@ii.uib.no> wrote:
>When I first heard of the special editions, I was (of course) thrilled.
>It would give me the chance to see SW in a theatre, and details from
>the originals would be improved.
>But as I've heard more and more about what would actually be changed,
>I've become quite disheartened. Adding Jabba, adding Boba Fett, adding
>celebrations in ROTJ, and now to hear Greedo shoots first???? *sigh*
>The way things are going I don't even mind the fact that the SE's come
>here in March....
>What in heaven's name possessed Lucas to do these things????
I must agree with this Greedo thing: it doesn't sound like a good
idea. Still, I'll reserve judgment until I see it myself: it might be
a bad ass gunfight that still has Han look good (or should that be
bad).
However, it *was* originally intented to put in Jabba, and I don't
really mind a cameo by Boba Fett. And the Jedi celebrations sound
excellent. Really, this Greedo scene is the only one I have mixed
feelings about at this point. And going on about this one scene in a
two-hour movie is overreacting, IMHO. But maybe it'll be horrible:
Again, I'll reserve judgment 'till I see it.
I knew people would scream abuse over some aspect or other of the
SE's, and now it's happened. Again, I haven't seen the film, but I
believe that 80% of the movie is intact, with another 19% or so
actually being an improvement (Death Star scenes, Mos Eisley, the
desert scenes and such). Must we nag over this 1% that's debatable
(Jabba -which I think *will* be an improvement- and Greedo)? No, I
still think the SE will be better in many ways than the original. No
amount of laserfire out of the gun of a Rodian is likely to change
that.
Still, I may want to revise my opinion after seeing the film. And as
I said: changing this particular scene was not a good idea. The fact
that Lucas thought otherwise might not ruin ANH, but it makes me fear
for the prequels: has the man lost his better judgment?
- Gerthein
-----------------------
gert...@worldaccess.nl
-----------------------
Martin Wendelborg
In article <59e74n$cr...@easy4.worldaccess.nl>, gert...@worldaccess.nl says...
>However, it *was* originally intented to put in Jabba, and I don't
>really mind a cameo by Boba Fett. And the Jedi celebrations sound
>excellent. Really, this Greedo scene is the only one I have mixed
>feelings about at this point. And going on about this one scene in a
>two-hour movie is overreacting, IMHO. But maybe it'll be horrible:
>Again, I'll reserve judgment 'till I see it.
>
>I knew people would scream abuse over some aspect or other of the
>SE's, and now it's happened. Again, I haven't seen the film, but I
>believe that 80% of the movie is intact, with another 19% or so
>actually being an improvement (Death Star scenes, Mos Eisley, the
>desert scenes and such). Must we nag over this 1% that's debatable
>(Jabba -which I think *will* be an improvement- and Greedo)? No, I
>still think the SE will be better in many ways than the original. No
>amount of laserfire out of the gun of a Rodian is likely to change
>that.
I think the Greedo scene stands out in that it is an *alteration*
rather than an *expansion*. The meeting with Jabba was going to be
part of the movie in the first place, but Lucas couldn't afford to
finish it - it doesn't change something that was in the original movie,
but expands it. The celebrations - this doesn't change anything that
was in the movie either. The new "music video" for ROTJ. Okay, this
might seem like somewhat of an alteration. I am a fan of "Lapti Nek",
but losing it isn't that big a deal. Some not-perfect effects shots here
and there are IMHO not that big a deal either. (Neither ANH, ESB nor
ROTJ have all perfect effects shots, do they?)
Greedo vs Han, on the other hand, changes something that we've already
seen (and LOVED - few things in ANH can match Harrison Ford's delivery
of "Yes, I bet you have".) IMHO, it changes Solo AND Greedo's characters
quite drastically, and the fact that it (reportedly) is a horrible effect
is even more horrifying.
> Still, I may want to revise my opinion after seeing the film. And as
>I said: changing this particular scene was not a good idea. The fact
>that Lucas thought otherwise might not ruin ANH, but it makes me fear
>for the prequels: has the man lost his better judgment?
Some people have made the accusation that Lucas can pretty much do what
he wants with the movies. To a certain extent, I agree - a filmmmaker
should have complete freedom to do what he wants. However, Star Wars has
already been made, it has accumulated a massive fan following. I'm not
saying that Lucas should consult fans to check "what would you like to
have altered?" However, when there is such a massive negative response
to the alteration, I think it should be taken into serious consideration.
_Martin_
David Gordon
MA Kribble <kri...@students.uiuc.edu> wrote
> Soooo, the question du jour: have Kershner (is he still alive?) and/or
> Marquand been consulted about the changes in their work?
Kershner is still alive. Marquand died a few years ago.
TWuG
My guess would be that the special preview in CA was set up to judge
audience reactions. Most films get a pre-release screening to get an idea
of what may need to be changed to get the best audience response. If
response to the extended Greedo scene was overwhelmingly negative, it is
very likely that we will never see it once the film is released for
general viewing. One can only hope.
Tom "No Really Cool Nickname" George
**Very happy to have a wife who understands**
**that Star Wars Mania is a treatable illness.**
Gerthein Boersma
The one and only Paul Gunther <s_n...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>I agree completely. I was four when I saw Star Wars in the theater, and
>never for a moment did I doubt that Han did the right thing. The threat
>by Greedo was clear and to the point, and even at four I understood
>that. "He may only take your ship." "Over my dead body." "That's the
>idea." I knew even at that young age that Han's actions were out of
>self-defense, and that if he didn't shoot then he wouldn't have the
>chance to later.
<snip>
>Please keep the scene as is.
I think the bottemline is that, while some feel this change is worse
than others, NO-ONE LIKES IT! For SW-fandom, and for SW:SE to be the
"ultimate" SW-version, we must at least TRY to get it changed back.
Mail to webm...@starwars.com until we get an alternative address.
Gerthein Boersma
The one and only samel...@aol.com (SAMelching) wrote:
>He pretty much disappears for the rest of the scene until the
>very end... when he steps into frame almost in close-up...
>AND THEN PAUSES AND LOOKS RIGHT INTO THE CAMERA!
>Corny....
That sounds bad, but if they change back the Greedo scene, I can live
with this.
>But what irks me most about this bit is that it cheapens the
>character of Boba Fett even more than he already was in ROTJ.
>He was COOL in TESB, a mysterious bounty hunter who worked
>for the highest bidder. A real badass.
>But now with the SW:SE (taken with the way he was portrayed
>in ROTJ), he becomes just another of Jabba's henchmen. A
>cooler-looking henchman, maybe, but a gun-totin' flunky
>nevertheless. Even a bodyguard.
Hey, we can always believe Jabba invited him to see Han so that Boba
knew exactly who he was gonna go catch later. This shines a better
light on the whole meeting between Jabba and Solo, making it pretty
cool (imagine Jabba saying something like"I hope you got a good look,
'cause that's the guy I want you to catch if he doesn't pay up soon...
and I know he won't" after Han is gone, and Boba going "Han Solo is
slippery.. I require double the bounty".. I'm making this up as I go
but you get the point).
Boba is and will always be an independent guy (remember he works for
both Jabba and the Empire in ESB, so he can't be 'bound' to either),
it's not unreasonable Jabba would hire him to stick around for some
time after he managed to get Han (besides, it' understandable GL
wanted to use him again). Remember: Jabba's rich, so he can afford the
best to stick around and do some more work for him.
But yes, say NOOOO to the Rodian shooting first.
Edward Arthur Havens
In article <59jsqn$a7...@easy4.worldaccess.nl>,
gert...@worldaccess.nl (Gerthein Boersma) wrote:
I think the bottom line is that you have a small, but vocal, minority who
has seen the scene and do not like it, and a majority of lemmings who don't
know anything but follow the leader.
Now, I'm not saying Harry or anyone else is full of shit (although we all
are, but that's a different topic completely), but NOT EVERYONE has seen
this scene, or any of the other scenes.
Bitch and moan all ya want, Lucas ain't ever gonna be changin it back, so
just deal wif it.
Edward
(President of the STAR WARS Apathy Society)
Jennifer Grimaud
Re: 'following the leader'
My decision is based on the fact that it changes Han's character. This
was a defining scene for him and now it has been altered.
--
aka Gallandro
In article , Jennifer says...
>
>Re: 'following the leader'
>
>My decision is based on the fact that it changes Han's character. This
>was a defining scene for him and now it has been altered.
>
This was no defining moment for Han. I've heard people mention the word "redemption," that each of our heroes are redeemed at the end of ANH, and that this change has some impact on Han's redemption. HOW?!?! Han is redeemed because he returns to help the Rebels fight the Empire for reasons other than money. If Han shoots first or last it doesn't matter one lick as far as Han's redemption or what kind of person he is.
When we meet Han he's a smuggler out to make a living; out to make a buck to save his skin. He only appears to be helping Luke and Ben out of his need for cash, but by the end he's changed. Why? Because of traits like loyalty, and the need for a higher purpose. Han helps the Rebels because Luke and Leia have become his friends.
I'm sorry, but all of you people who think you know Han better than Lucas are sadly mistaken. It was George who developed Han...Han was his creation, and if he feels it necessary to clarify the Greedo/Han scene...then so be it. I don't know where people got this idea that Han was some tough-as-nails, cold-blooded, only-out-for-himself, killer/smuggler. My God, this is the same guy who risked his career to free a Wookie from slavery. The guy can't be all that bad...and his actions at the end of ANH, and in ESB and ROTJ prove it.
Now if you want to complain about the new scene because of its poor execution...well that's another story. It needs work, and I suspect the reaction from fans on RASSM and those who have seen the new sequence will motivate Lucas to tweak it a little in the editing room before its final release.
Gallandro
aka Gallandro
>In article , Jennifer says...
>>
>>Re: 'following the leader'
>>
>>My decision is based on the fact that it changes Han's character. This
>>was a defining scene for him and now it has been altered.
>>
> As I've stated numerous times, whether or not Han is verbally threatened (with death) and shoots Greedo, or Greedo shoots first then Han fires...IT DOESN'T MAKE ONE DIFFERENCE!!! In either case Han is exercising his right to self-defense. It doesn't alter his character one bit.
> This was no defining moment for Han. I've heard people mention the word "redemption," that each of our heroes are redeemed at the end of ANH, and that this change has some impact on Han's redemption. HOW?!?! Han is redeemed because he returns to help the Rebels fight the Empire for reasons other than money. If Han shoots first or last it doesn't matter one lick as far as Han's redemption or what kind of person he is.
> When we meet Han he's a smuggler out to make a living; out to make a buck to save his skin. He only appears to be helping Luke and Ben out of his need for cash, but by the end he's changed. Why? Because of traits like loyalty, and the need for a higher purpose. Han helps the Rebels because Luke and Leia have become his friends.
Gerthein Boersma
The one and only Edward Arthur Havens <film...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>I think the bottemline is that, while some feel this change is worse
>>than others, NO-ONE LIKES IT! For SW-fandom, and for SW:SE to be the
>>"ultimate" SW-version, we must at least TRY to get it changed back.
>>Mail to webm...@starwars.com until we get an alternative address.
>I think the bottom line is that you have a small, but vocal, minority who
>has seen the scene and do not like it, and a majority of lemmings who don't
>know anything but follow the leader.
>Now, I'm not saying Harry or anyone else is full of shit (although we all
>are, but that's a different topic completely), but NOT EVERYONE has seen
>this scene, or any of the other scenes.
I've recently made the point on this board that this scene should not
overshadow the fact that most of what was/will be seen in the SE's is
most likely an improvement, so New Coke analogies don't really work
(at least I hope they don't, having not seen it yet). I also believe
in keeping an open mind regarding the SE's despite the tone of current
postings on it. However, to make this the 'perfect' edition of SW this
stupidly changed scene should, most likely, be taken out. To have any
hope in Hell of accomplishing this, we must try to do so *now*.
I'm no lemming, but I do think the Greedo-change is a bad idea: as
Harry said: no-one has said they liked this scene. Everyone who has
heard about it's concpet thinks it's a bad idea, and nothing was wrong
with the scene in the first place.
Also, don't underestimate the number of people who *have* seen it: it
*is* on that now infamous Making Magic CD which many fans got
(couldn't get hold of it meself, but I will try again soon). Does it
make me a lemming to trust the opinion of this none-too-small group of
people?
I truly believe that regardless of the Greedo Situation, the SE's will
be thoroughly enjoyable and, indeed, an improvement over the
originals, which (at the risk of being called a blasphemer) -at
least in the case of A New Hope- were starting to look dated.
But if for nothing else then for harmony and agreeance between the
fans (to quote Brian Linder: the fact that it has opened to mixed
reviews is not pleasing to us [fans]), we should at least *try* to
have the Greedo thing changed back, *even* if such an attempt is
doomed to fail (how's that for rebellion? ;-). Unless you had an
incredible dislike for the Greedo scene as it originally appeared,
which somehow I doubt, what *is* your problem with that?
Edward Arthur Havens
In article <59uoe9$48...@easy4.worldaccess.nl>,
gert...@worldaccess.nl (Gerthein Boersma) wrote:
>I've recently made the point on this board that this scene should not
>overshadow the fact that most of what was/will be seen in the SE's is
>most likely an improvement, so New Coke analogies don't really work
>(at least I hope they don't, having not seen it yet). I also believe
>in keeping an open mind regarding the SE's despite the tone of current
>postings on it. However, to make this the 'perfect' edition of SW this
>stupidly changed scene should, most likely, be taken out. To have any
>hope in Hell of accomplishing this, we must try to do so *now*.
Who ever said anything about perfection? Lucas is doing the SE's for the
following reasons:
1) To restore the original negatives, which were starting to deteriorate.
2) To make changes in the FX and restore or add scenes he wanted in the
first place, but was unable to.
3) To fund the prequels.
The SE's were never about perfection, and I believe it is a fan's
overzealous quest for something unattainable (perfection) that creates the
delusion that the fan has a say in what can be changed and cannot be
changed.
> I'm no lemming, but I do think the Greedo-change is a bad idea: as
>Harry said: no-one has said they liked this scene. Everyone who has
>heard about it's concpet thinks it's a bad idea, and nothing was wrong
>with the scene in the first place.
Just because you, me or 100,000,000 people might think there was nothing
wrong with the scene does not mean that its creator does not have the right
to change it as he or she sees fit. I liked CLOSE ENOUNTERS (CE3K) as it was
in 1977 and I still feel to this day that the changes Spielberg made in 1980
were unneeded, especially the removal of Roy's scene where he starts digging
up the dirt and throwing it through the windows in order to create his
Devil's mountain. That scene, more than any other, showed the desperation
within Ray Neary to resolve his conflict, and unless you have a laserdisc
and a copy of the Criterion Collection release of CE3K, you will never see
it again. You can't get a print of the 1977 CE3K for a theatre revival
screening. You can't get the 1977 release of CE3K on videotape. But, unlike
CE3K, we all still have access to the original SW Trilogy.
>Also, don't underestimate the number of people who *have* seen it: it
>*is* on that now infamous Making Magic CD which many fans got
>(couldn't get hold of it meself, but I will try again soon). Does it
>make me a lemming to trust the opinion of this none-too-small group of
>people?
I never did underestimate the people who have the Making Magic CD. I pan on
buying it next month when I get my new computer. But if you are making a
judgement based on what other people have seen but you have not, that does
very much make you a lemming. You, Gerthain, more than anyone else, is
responding to these threads, stating how the scene needs to be changed, yet
you now admit you haven't even seen the very scene we are talking about. I
have always admitted that I have yet to see anything from the SE's except
for what is in the theatrical trailer, yet I am willing to wait to see what
the change looks like without making judgement. Can't you?
>I truly believe that regardless of the Greedo Situation, the SE's will
>be thoroughly enjoyable and, indeed, an improvement over the
>originals, which (at the risk of being called a blasphemer) -at
>least in the case of A New Hope- were starting to look dated.
The only change still needed to be made is to get rid of Mark Hammill's
dorky disco-era haircut. =)
>But if for nothing else then for harmony and agreeance between the
>fans (to quote Brian Linder: the fact that it has opened to mixed
>reviews is not pleasing to us [fans]), we should at least *try* to
>have the Greedo thing changed back, *even* if such an attempt is
>doomed to fail (how's that for rebellion? ;-). Unless you had an
>incredible dislike for the Greedo scene as it originally appeared,
>which somehow I doubt, what *is* your problem with that?
My problem is that you think that you have the right to dictate what Lucas
does, especially when you really have no idea of what you are talking about.
You, nor I, nor anyone else in this newsgroup or around the world, have the
right to voice our displeasure about the Greedo scene, or how fake Jabba
looks or anything else that bugs us. But you all are severly delusional if
you think that Lucas is going to change anything based on a few email rants
and posts. THAT IS *MY* PROBLEM.
On January 28th, when I sit down to watch SWSE in the privacy of my own
theatre, I will be seeing it for the first time with an open mind. Somewhere
in the third reel, Luke and Ben will make it to Mos Eisley and they'll go
into this cantina, meet with a couple of smugglers and arrange safe passage
to Alderaan. Then one of the smugglers will be confronted by this cocky
little green guy. What do we really know about this Greedo guy? Nothing,
except he works for Jabba and thinks he can collect from Han right there in
the cantina. If Han shoots first, Han's really got nothing to lose, as
Greedo already has a blaster pointed at him. If Greedo shoots first, even if
Han got hit, could probably squeeze off a shot simply out of instinct before
he died. If Greedo shoots and misses (for whatever reason... he's a bad
shot, whatever), Han shoots him anyway.
We all have the curse of up to 20 years of knowledge about the little bits
and pieces of the SW Universe. When you see the SE, you need to wipe all
that away and see it with new eyes, just like you did whenever you saw SW
the first time. (For me, it was the 12:00 PM show on May 26th, 1977, at the
Chinese Theatre in Hollywood). When the Greedo scene happens, you need to
see it with the eyes of someone who has never seen SW before. It doesn't
matter what we know about Greedo from the "Tales from the Mos Eisley
Cantina" books or anything else. At that point, all we know about Greedo is
what he tells us while talking to Han.
That is the attitude I am taking about the SE's. Is there something wrong
with that?
Edward
brian_linder
Just kidding!!! : )
In article , gert...@worldaccess.nl says...
> I'm no lemming, but I do think the Greedo-change is a bad idea:
HEY! Wasn't Lemming the guys name who started the GoNk wAr!?!?!?
Maybe this is a sign!!! : )
>I truly believe that regardless of the Greedo Situation, the SE's will
>be thoroughly enjoyable and, indeed, an improvement over the
>originals, which (at the risk of being called a blasphemer) -at
>least in the case of A New Hope- were starting to look dated.
Agreed. I wonder if they will replace those cheesy 1970 sideburns on the Imperial officers in the Death Star War room with CG flesh!?!? : )
>But if for nothing else then for harmony and agreeance between the
>fans (to quote Brian Linder: the fact that it has opened to mixed
>reviews is not pleasing to us [fans]),
Hey!! That's me!!!!!!! : ) I have kinda changed my tune on the whole thing though Gerth. I don't like the idea but I am now willing to accept it. The reason for my change in opinion is as follows. I explained the change to a co worker of mine, a casual SW fan. He like the idea because he had formerly seen the SE's as merely a commercial move on the part of Lucas. Now he believes that he is sincere in his efforts to make the films better and not just make money. Now this change won't make the films better to me, but maybe it will make some nay-sayers have faith in Lucas' motives. Maybe that's the reason that it was done in the first place.
Brian A. Linder
br...@linder.net
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The Star Wars Trilogy Special Edition
See it again...for the first time!
http://www.starwars.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Harry Knowles Cool News
Gerthein Boersma
The one and only Y. Evans (aka Gallandro) wrote:
> As I've stated numerous times, whether or not Han is verbally threatened (with death) and shoots Greedo, or Greedo shoots first then Han fires...
> IT DOESN'T MAKE ONE DIFFERENCE!!!
Redemption schmedemption. One of the cooler scenes of Han has been
altered and according to everyone looks far worse and has lost a lot
of it's punch. Plus, Greedo *cannot* miss from point-blank range
unless he has no brain to speak of. I agree that it has little to no
impact on Han's character development, let alone that it would ruin
the character, but it has an impact on the scene, sure enough. It
should be changed back.
> Now if you want to complain about the new scene because of its poor execution...well that's another story.
> It needs work, and I suspect the reaction from fans on RASSM and those who have seen the new sequence
> will motivate Lucas to tweak it a little in the editing room before its final release.
Oh, ehm.. yes. Just noticed this sentence, which kinda defeats the
purpose of posting this message..
But there still is one purpose: rallying everyone to complain about
this scene against whoever you think can help have it changed back.
And saying that I agree with Gallandro that this whining over Han's
character development is nonsense. Still, any reason to complain about
the scene to the proper people is fine with me..
Muz
Edward Arthur Havens <film...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>In article <59uoe9$48...@easy4.worldaccess.nl>,
> gert...@worldaccess.nl (Gerthein Boersma) wrote:
>>I've recently made the point on this board that this scene should not
>>overshadow the fact that most of what was/will be seen in the SE's is
>>most likely an improvement, so New Coke analogies don't really work
>>(at least I hope they don't, having not seen it yet). I also believe
>>in keeping an open mind regarding the SE's despite the tone of current
>>postings on it. However, to make this the 'perfect' edition of SW this
>>stupidly changed scene should, most likely, be taken out. To have any
>>hope in Hell of accomplishing this, we must try to do so *now*.
>Who ever said anything about perfection? Lucas is doing the SE's for the
>following reasons:
>1) To restore the original negatives, which were starting to deteriorate.
>2) To make changes in the FX and restore or add scenes he wanted in the
> first place, but was unable to.
>3) To fund the prequels.
>The SE's were never about perfection, and I believe it is a fan's
>overzealous quest for something unattainable (perfection) that creates the
>delusion that the fan has a say in what can be changed and cannot be
>changed.
I think that this whole SE business shows an alarming amount of
cynicism on Lucas's part: all this stuff about cleaning up old
negatives etc is fine and dandy, but he's banking on the fact that
Star wars fans old and new will be flocking to see them in January and
swelling Lucasfilm's coffers. Hence the fact that there have been no
test screenings - Lucas is taking it for granted that you, me, and
every other Star Wars fan will be there, because we'll want to
recapture the "WOW!" feeling we got when we first saw them.
The sad thing is is that Lucas has foisted these changes on us because
he doesn't care what the fans think, or want anymore: the days when he
was an aspiring young film-maker with low funds and whose career
depended on audience turnout are long over. Okay, so Lucas wants to
clean up the negatives, enhance the effects with technology that
wasn't around at the time, and include Jabba. That's great - all power
to him. But where does changing the Han/Greedo scene fit into that
agenda? What exactly is the point of this, when there was nothing
wrong with the scene in the first place? This is what really bugs me.
I know that realistically there is not much chance of a fan's opinion
influencing the way Lucas is going to make movies, but I don't have to
like it.
Muz
PAPADIMITRIOU 'Indy' Paul
Hi,
> the Ultimate Special Edition Page
> (which is now known as Red 5)
I just wanted to know the adress of this site
Cheers
Indy.