Newsgroup split <warning, very long!>
RobotFan
<post 1>
I am very pleased that I got the lines of communication on this topic rolling
again. Please indulge me a little while I give my point of view on this issue.
I'll try not to make it too painful. =)
Quite frankly I think that a real reason that we aren't seeing more discussion
about POTF2, Galoob, Tiger Electronics, Applause and RoseArt toys is because of
all the negativity that comes about from the
animosity directed at scalpers. I freely admit that I am about as guilty of
generating this as anyone else here. Maybe the most guilty. If the split goes
through however, and rassc.neoclassic.disscus becomes a safe haven for pure
talk about the neoclassic toys I believe that constructive dialogue will once
again reign. If anyone is familiar with rec.arts.toys.action-figures. You
know that people talk about lines that are decades dead. The traffic there is
enormous. All three rassc groups pale next to that one newsgroup in volume.
Split the groups and people will post. I know that I for one will never be
finished
discussing toys that were, are and will be based on episodes 4 through 6. Once
the prequels hit and interest in all things Star Wars reaches critical mass,
there will be a steady stream of ready and eager to post collectors.
I am sure that there are many people that for whatever reason will have no
interest in episodes 4 through 5. Not because they do not like these films,
but these are newsgroups for collectors not film buffs. If there are people
that had no interest in collecting memorabilia from the first three films that
suddenly get a taste for it from the prequels they are not going to want to sit
through Luke and Han posts. Also I am sure that there will be some that only
wish to collect the toys based on episodes four through 6. Such threads have
already shown that those people exist. If I were one of these people I
wouldn't want to sift through Jar Jar and Darth Maul posts to get to the ones
about Admiral Ackbar.
However, I can see an argument made to combine both of these into one
marketplace newsgroup. I think that for the most part once the prequels hit in
force that the secondary market for neoclassic toys will dwindle to a mere
trickle. No need to devote a single group to such a trickle, so combine the
two marketplace groups into one (Thanks Rick Adams for the suggestion).
Let me amend my proposal for new newsgroups.
rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.neoclassic.discuss
rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.prequels.discuss
rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.?.marketplace
Unfortunately I can't think of a name for the single marketplace group that
wouldn't divert FS/FA/WTB posts from the
rec.art.sf.starwars.collecting.vintage group. Other than
rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.prequel.neoclassic.marketplace
but that seems way to awkward.
WHY I DON'T THINK THAT WE SHOULD USE THE WORD 'MODERN' IN THE HIERARCHY
According to Webster's this is the definition of modern
mod*ern [1] (adjective)
[Late Latin modernus, from Latin modo just now, from modus measure -- more at
METE]
First appeared 1585
1 a : of, relating to, or characteristic of the present or the
immediate past :
CONTEMPORARY
2 : involving recent techniques, methods, or ideas : UP-TO-DATE
3 capitalized : of, relating to, or having the characteristics of the present
or most recent period of development of a language
4 : of or relating to modernism : MODERNIST
-- mo*der*ni*ty (noun)
-- mod*ern*ly (adverb)
-- mod*ern*ness (noun)
The connotation of modern is clear. Contemporary, Up-To-Date these terms will
not be
the case in ten years or so. However
Webster's definition of neoclassic:
neo*clas*sic or neo*clas*si*cal (adjective)
First appeared 1877
: of, relating to, or constituting a revival or adaptation of the
classical
esp. in literature, music, art, or architecture
-- neo*clas*si*cism (noun)
-- neo*clas*si*cist (noun or adjective)
This definition suits the POTF2 toys and the Galoob toys and any representation
of the ANH, ESB and ROTJ movies from the 1990's 'second wave'
perfectly. If
someone doesn't understand what neoclassic means by seeing it in the hierarchy,
they simply look it up in the dictionary and the content for that group should
be clear.
Modern by its very definition means 'up to date' and 'current'. Frankly I want
a group where I can discuss the Toy Biz Bend'Ems if I desire. Which group would
this be in ten years? The Bend'Ems are certainly NOT modern ('current' or 'up
to date'). They aren't vintage either. They are however 'neoclassic'.
If you saw modern 10 years from now and perhaps even several Star Wars toy
lines
down the road, would you assume that you could discuss POTF2 items there?
Neoclassic might not be the best word to use, but I am hard pressed to think of
a better one. Modern simply won't cut it in the long run and I am very
concerned with the long run. I plan on being here until there is either no
more here or no more me.
I starting posting around 6 years ago. I was there when rassc first split into
the architecture that we have now. I was very against that split when it was
first proposed. I didn't want to have to search more than one newsgroup. I
thought that the people that I enjoyed reading posts from would abandon what I
felt was a vital discussion group. I was worried that the group that was to be
called misc would lose traffic. I had all of these fears and more. I was wrong
to be opposed. The split was a good thing. I want a newsgroup that enjoys the
freedom from flaming that the vintage group and rtaf have. This split is
important and the time to get it done is nigh. Soon the floodgates will be
open and any chance to work out a split will be drowned out by the massive
influx of newbies.
In closing, the split is evolution. It's progress. Those against this split
will see that if the split goes through. Once we shake of the FS/FA/WTB posts
you will see improvements on both the quantity and quality of posts in the
remaining groups flourish. Not right away, but eventually and with a
vengeance.
As for the person concerned with AOL and it's ability to sign up the new
newsgroup once it starts. If you were around for the original split, you would
remember that it didn't take long at all for AOL to set up the new groups. In
fact it kept the original
rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting group alive for months before pulling the plug
on it. If you send email to newsm...@aol.com and request
it. You'll have your newsgroup in no time.
I recently created a newsgroup and within 4 days it showed up on AOL's
newsgroups list. You can certainly sit tight for a few days, and if you simply
can't wait that long, there is always www.dejanews.com.
If you got this far, I thank you for your patience.
<whew, long one. Now post 2>
Okay, how about this?
rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.vintage
rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.customizing
rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.neoclassic.discuss
rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.neoclassic.marketplace
rec.arts.sf.starwars.prequel.collecting
I think that the prequel warrants it's own branch in the hierarchy, before
collecting. This way there is room for
rec.arts.sf.starwars.prequel.info
rec.arts.sf.starwars.prequel.misc
etc.
eventually when they are ready to split
rec.arts.sf.starwars.prequel.collecting.marketplace
There ya go.
Even if people have a problem with the rec.arts.sf.starwars.prequel structure,
I would still like to formally submit the idea of
"neoclassic" or "neo-classic" to represent the latest wave of Star Wars
merchandise (that which does not fall within the confines of
'vintage').
So, comments.
Carl Kramer
Robo...@aol.com
http://members.aol.com/robotfan
Wish I didn't have to make this post from AOL!!!
MBoyd00000
>Even if people have a problem with the rec.arts.sf.starwars.prequel
>structure,
>I would still like to formally submit the idea of
>"neoclassic" or "neo-classic" to represent the latest wave of Star Wars
>merchandise (that which does not fall within the confines of
>'vintage').
I think we may eventually need a prequel newsgroup but I'm afraid we wern't
have support for it yet. Especially if it was the only one on usenet. Maybe we
should take a wait and see approach until sometime in 2001 before E2 comes out
in 2002. neoclassic would be very suitable IMHO for the forseeable future. I
know we have much of next years merchendise seen on the net. But are we even
sure there will be much E1 merchendise in say 2001 to talk about? I was at
Target today and things were being marked down and a Hasbro rep was pulling
figs to send back. I'm sure there will be plenty to collect, but how
overwhelming to the group will it be until say May 03, 2002.
Carl any thought on removing the arts.sf in the title? I know Rick Adams has
brought this up several times.
Michael Boyd
To read my Seinfeld Spec Script, The Tessmacher Chair, copy and paste this link
http://members.aol.com/mboyd00000/seinfeldspecscript.index.html
Cstoj1
>newsgroup once it starts. If you were around for the original split, you
>would
>remember that it didn't take long at all for AOL to set up the new groups.
>In
NO, AOL very qucikly picked up the rtaf split into rtaf.dicsuss and
rtaf.marketplace. These also never dropped the original rtaf which is an awful
place to visit.
Get paid to surf the web! I decided to try one of these things, and it does
work.
http://www.alladvantage.com/go.asp?refid=FHR632
http://www.gotoworld.com/getpaid/default.asp?rid=1036625012
http://www.onesight.com/reg.php3?ref_id=54404
RobotFan
>brought this up several times.
>
>Michael Boyd
I would love to get rid of the superflous
arts.sf, but this would mean that the .vintage newsgroup would also have to
change hiearchies. I don't want to speak for them, but I know for a fact that
they are very happy with the way things are right now, I don't know how much
they would want to get involved in another RFD. It would be nice though.
Chris Georgoulias
>
> However, I can see an argument made to combine both of these into one
> marketplace newsgroup. I think that for the most part once the prequels hit in
> force that the secondary market for neoclassic toys will dwindle to a mere
> trickle. No need to devote a single group to such a trickle, so combine the
> two marketplace groups into one (Thanks Rick Adams for the suggestion).
>
> Let me amend my proposal for new newsgroups.
>
> rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.neoclassic.discuss
> rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.prequels.discuss
> rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.?.marketplace
I wouldn't even consider going this route. What are you saving? 1
group?
The confusion factor is tripled. Go with 4 groups and be done with it.
> If you saw modern 10 years from now and perhaps even several Star Wars toy
> lines down the road, would you assume that you could discuss POTF2 items there?
That's why people have to step back and realize that neoclassic and
prequels
divides much more than a couple of cases of current product.
> a better one. Modern simply won't cut it in the long run and I am very
> concerned with the long run. I plan on being here until there is either no
> more here or no more me.
If you are concerned about the long run you shouldn't be thinking about
only
a single marketplace group.
My concern for the long-term is whether or not to push forward to
converting
vintage to this scheme.
-chris
Wuher
>RobotFan wrote:
>>
>> However, I can see an argument made to combine both of these into one
>> marketplace newsgroup. I think that for the most part once the prequels hit
> in
>> force that the secondary market for neoclassic toys will dwindle to a mere
>> trickle. No need to devote a single group to such a trickle, so combine the
>> two marketplace groups into one (Thanks Rick Adams for the suggestion).
>>
>> Let me amend my proposal for new newsgroups.
>>
>> rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.neoclassic.discuss
>> rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.prequels.discuss
>> rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.?.marketplace
>
>group?
>The confusion factor is tripled. Go with 4 groups and be done with it.
>
I'll half agree with this. Yes, having one marketplace group is easier on our
mouse fingers, and it would be nice. However, it really would be extremely
confusing for the minimal amount of work involved in creating it. Also, I like
the idea of a scalper group and a classic group. There are a few items I've
missed (Note, very, very, very few ;) in the classic line, and I would
subscribe to the neoclassic marketplace. However, the prequel group would be
more of a scalpers paradise for new items, and thus, I would not subscribe to
it, and miss out having to read posts scalping prequel items.
I'm not sure if anyone else agrees or feels the way I do about how the two
marketplaces would be advantageous not just because of a confusion factor, but
because it's easier for us to purchase items not shipping to stores (As in not
being scalped.)...
One thing I want to note again, and I believe I said this over in AFMRMG, is
that EU MUST be included. Whoever draws up the RFD must not forget to put
prequel EU collectibles in the prequel groups charters, and neoclassic EU
items in the neoclassic group charters.
>> If you saw modern 10 years from now and perhaps even several Star Wars toy
>> lines down the road, would you assume that you could discuss POTF2 items
> there?
>
>That's why people have to step back and realize that neoclassic and
>prequels
>divides much more than a couple of cases of current product.
>
>> a better one. Modern simply won't cut it in the long run and I am very
>> concerned with the long run. I plan on being here until there is either no
>> more here or no more me.
>
>If you are concerned about the long run you shouldn't be thinking about
>only
>a single marketplace group.
>
>My concern for the long-term is whether or not to push forward to
>converting
>vintage to this scheme.
>
>-chris
The vintage group doesn't seem to suffer from the multitude of auction posts
that RASSCM does. However, I have noted quite a few Prequel items being posted
for sale and for auction there over the summer.
Is a vintage split needed? Maybe and maybe not. Being a vintage collector
means adding items from other peoples collections, which means being
interested in FS posted by other collectors as well as discussion. Being a
neoclassic collector means going to your local TRU and picking up the latest
items, and sometimes having to use the 'net. Being a collector of both means
being a very busy, rich person. ;) Also, does the volume in the vintage group
constitute a split? I'm afraid if the vintage group was split in two there
would be a very, very small volume of posts to each group. However, with the
four-way RASSCM split, there would be an adequate amount of posts to each
group. Something to add to the vintage split equation, at least...
But, this is something that of course would have to be discussed in the
vintage group. Perhaps mentioning what's going on over here might get a few
people interested in doing the same over in the vintage group if the vintage
regulars feel it is needed.
Rick Adams
-------------------------------
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Neal Jensen
Why not just create: rec.arts.sf.starwars.marketplace?
Oops, another broken promise.
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