Capclave Again (LONG!)
Kate Secor
party. It was nice to get to meet some people, and to apparently prove
my own reality.
Second things second... Sarah Williams is one of the cutest little
girls I've seen in a very long time. The fact that she ran over to
collect a hug when I walked in and said hello and gave me a goodnight
kiss when she was kidnapped off to bed has *nothing* to do with this
opinion, of course.
Oh, and third things: I'm *terrible* with names and am currently on
Benadryl for the mild case of ConCrud I seem to have picked up (even
though I daytripped both days), so please excuse me if I forget anyone.
CapClave was ... interesting ... in a different way from what I usually
expect cons to be.
I didn't have very high expectations going in, since I knew that there
weren't going to be very many people there that I knew, but I figured
I'd go anyway, since it's silly not to go to a con that's only 6 miles
from my house.
Saturday I picked myself up and hied off nervously to the con. The
directions were super-good, especially since all the walking direction
landmarks were easily usable from a car.
Wandered in, picked up a badge. Didn't really see any programming I
wanted to go to, so I wound up playing Scrabble in the con suite (and
getting whupped, 158 - 256 or some such, it was about 100 point spread).
I then wandered over to another table and wound up greatly disappointing
someone (and delighting them at the same time) by figuring out how they
were pulling off always winning one of those "counting" games that I'm
bad at.
At some point I found Keith and introduced myself, and we had a nice
chat. I went out to dinner with some people I'd met while playing
number games, came back, found out that it was three hours earlier than
I'd thought it was, hit the dealer's room for some new books, and curled
up in a corner to read. Had a nice conversation with the person I'd
gone to dinner with (Candy Msomething), watched Keith play Scrabble, and
eventually wandered off to the RASFF party.
I thought the signs were neat, and wished I'd brought a picture of the
Winged Victory to add to the distraction factor. Lots of neat people
and good conversations, although I didn't recognize everybody (and at
least a few of them weren't RASFFarians). The bride from the wedding we
were sharing the hotel with kept wandering by and waving every time she
went by, and there were bizarre "peacock mating factory" noises coming
from the wedding party room.
Kip accepted his RASFF award with all due grace and dignity, and showed
a lot of cute Sarah pictures. Nancy took her accustomed nap. I started
out on the floor and upgraded chairs every time someone moved,
eventually winding up in the big comfy wing chair Kip had started in.
Jim and Laurie Mann showed up with some wine, causing me to wander down
to fetch my multi-tool from the con suite (since it had a bottle opener
in it) and get sucked into something (oh, right, freebies table). Wade
was there for a while, although very quiet, and the Goose Man (whose
name I catch and forget every time I meet him -- I'm on four or so now),
and I'm sure other people whose names I never managed to catch will
announce themselves indignantly when I post this... (No offense
intended to those whom I didn't mention, see disclaimer three at the
top.)
I eventually wandered off for a smoke and caught the end of "If I Ran
the Zoo^H^H^H Con," managing not to kill the baby. Very funny, although
most of the humor value is schadenfreunde, I'm sure.
Danny L. was at this, which is when I finally figured out who he was and
why I was supposed to know who he was. (I knew I was, and he was
reacting to me as though he knew who I was, I just didn't put the facts
together until then.)
After that there was a general hoopla in the lobby in front of the Con
Suite, involving game playing and talking. There was a brief to-do
about the Con Suite not really being lockable, leading to the
re-invention of the solution they apparently used to lock those doors
last year -- tying them together from the inside with a hanger and then
exiting through the other set of doors, which would lock behind us.
I offered Keith a ride to the Metro Station, and then we got lost
looking for one that was actually useful (Orange Line, as opposed to
Red, which is what runs out by the con), so I wound up driving him home.
I went inside to look at the neat treadmill/Usenet reading setup, and
got to see a bunch of cool computer museum bits and a really old fridge
(and some ingenious bookcases). Got home around 4:30.
Sunday I dragged GP (my boyfriend) back to the con, and he spent most of
his time talking to Keith (thank you!). I went to the Fannish History
panel and was amused that I was the only person in the room that wasn't
starting to (or hadn't already finished) going grey. The stories were
cool, but I ducked out at the official "end of the panel," because I
could see that they weren't going to get to things that had happened
after my parents had been born any time soon. I was rather amused at
the reactions me showing up at that panel elicited, since they were
mostly variations on minor shock.
GP and Keith had been sitting in the Dealer's Room, and we eventually
moved out to the hallway and thence down to the lobby, where we got
sucked into the Gripe Session/BWSMOFs meeting. I made some suggestions
(staff ribbons!) and listened. GP was bored, I think. GP got sucked
into a conversation with Keith and Ben Yalow and a couple of other
people (one of whom I recognized but have never been introduced to). I
wound up wandering off to smoke, where I ran into my first ever
iteration of the "young fen don't exist because young people don't read"
attitude directed at me by someone who could see that I was one of these
mythical younger fen.
GP and I were discussing the con and he mentioned that he'd been
uncomfortable because the two of us were so radically off the average
age. I have some theories about this, but they'd be another post of
this length, so I'll save them for later.
All in all, a reasonably good time, if not quite what I was expecting,
much livened up by getting to meet/see people I know and like.
Aiglet
Marilee J. Layman
<aig...@nospam.verizon.net> wrote:
>where we got
>sucked into the Gripe Session/BWSMOFs meeting. I made some suggestions
>(staff ribbons!)
Ah, besides the big handicapped problem (which I hope we won't have in
next year's hotel), my other big gripe is that they don't print names
on the badges. I had someone else print mine legibly, but it was
still nothing like being computer-printed in large type. It was very
hard to read badges, which sort of does away with the idea of having
them at all. I noticed Jim Mann had his Noreascon badge on and I
certainly have plenty of good con badges, so maybe I'll wear one of
those next year, along with the Capclave badge.
--
Marilee J. Layman
Kip Williams
a normal day Friday, and when it was time to put Sarah to bed, put
her in the car and drive ~3 hours to Washington DC. We did. It
worked. We got to the hotel about 10:30 at night, talked with people
some, and then took the beach at Dreamland. Up Saturday morning, ate
in the hotel, registered, toured the dealer's room. Talked with
folks including Marilee, Jane Wagner, Elspeth Kovar, Rich and Nikki
Lynch, Steve & Elaine Stiles, Laurie Mann, Ted White, and the
Cloughs. Cathy and I toured and showed Sarah around, then Cathy and
Sarah went out for lunch and Cathy watched Sarah nap while I went
out and obtained food. I headed for a nearby food court and got a
Subway sandwich, and encountered Jane, so we sat together and
chatted. The escalator to the court lets off in a discount store, so
I bought a cheap 8-pack of CDs (11.95) of piano music and guitar
music. It's kind of enjoyable, though the piano sounds like it could
be a MIDI and no performers are credited. Some of the pieces are
repeated on different disks. I was happy to get it for some common
pieces I have seen in many music books and not heard recordings of
(been listening to these at work today, in fact). I was supposed to
go see Bud Webster's panel, but I missed it. When I learned Bud
hadn't made it to the convention, I felt better about missing the
panel, but was sorry to misss Bud and Mary (out with the flu, we
found later).
Saturday night was the RASFF party. Our room was on the floor below,
a quick hop away, so it was convenient. We listened to the ice
machine make hideous noises. If that had been my room, the liquidy
sounds would have probably had me in the bathroom over and over.
Luckily, Marilee said they didn't bother her much. A table was
spread with crunchy, generally salty goodies, and another in the
adjoining room groaned with sodas. People came and went. Marilee
presented me with a gen-you-wine RASFF award, turning DDB's proviso
of "with plastic rosary bead clusters" into actuality. I was
mightily pleased by it, and still am. It crossed my mind to award
myself a RASFF award with fifty-dollar bills stapled to it and see
what happens, but I suspect I already know and will quit whilst
ahead. The party population ebbed and flowed, and by midnight, it
was mostly me and Marilee. Cathy had since taken Sarah off to bed.
When I went around ten to see if she wanted me to take a turn
watching, I found that she'd turned in almost right away, so I
returned to the shindig until it was time to help put snacks back
into their bags to be taken to the con suite. Off to bed.
Sunday we got up, hit the breakfast table again, ambled about
chatting with a few people, made some final purchases from the
dealers, and (according to Cathy's plan) hit the road when it was
Sarah's nap time. This time the plan was partially successful. Every
now and then she'd get rather vocal and we'd pull off and distract
her for a while. Then we got home, and I took out the garbage.
--
--Kip (Williams) ...at members.cox.net/kipw
"The politics of failure has failed! And I say we must move forward,
not backward. Upward, not forward. And always twirling, twirling,
twirling toward freedom!" --Kodos
Kate Secor
I purposely wrote mine in that nice big sharpie so that people could
read it, but I think having to put two names on it reduces my available
space too badly.
Also, I noticed a lot of people had signed theirs on the "autographed
signature" line...
Aiglet
(This is why you don't put in-jokes on the bottom of con badges,
especially not when they're things that people could legitimately *do*
to their badges to render them unreadable!)
Keith F. Lynch
> First things first... Many thanks to Marilee for running the RASFF
> party.
Ook.
> It was nice to get to meet some people, and to apparently prove my
> own reality.
Yes. That's pretty much how conventions started. Fans who only knew
each other from fanzines and lettercols started getting together in
person in the 1930s.
> CapClave was ... interesting ... in a different way from what I
> usually expect cons to be.
What other cons have you been to? I don't think we've been to any of
the same cons, otherwise your face would have been more familiar to
me. (I wouldn't necessarily have known *where* I'd seen it, or what
name goes with it, but I'd know I'd seen it at cons.) My complete
list of cons, past and future, is at http://keithlynch.net/cons.html.
> The directions were super-good, especially since all the walking
> direction landmarks were easily usable from a car.
Thank you. And thank you for saying so at the gripe session. Instead
of recycling the directions I wrote last year, I went there exactly
one week ahead of time, walked it several times, and took notes.
I've already walked from Metro to next year's Capclave hotel and back.
> ... I wound up playing Scrabble in the con suite (and getting
> whupped, 158 - 256 or some such, it was about 100 point spread).
Hank Smith is amazingly good at Scrabble. He even beat Wade and I in
the three way game you saw part of. Wade and I were tied for second
place.
> ... eventually wandered off to the RASFF party.
> I thought the signs were neat,
I saved one of them. Marilee asked me to tear it down after the
party. So I did so. And once a piece of paper is in my hand, I have
a hard time throwing it away. It's filed with the other Capclave
stuff, and I'll be able to instantly locate and produce it on request
even forty years from now.
> ... the Goose Man (whose name I catch and forget every time I meet
> him -- I'm on four or so now),
Me too. He arrived on Friday, but he was without his goose, so I
didn't recognize him.
> ... caught the end of "If I Ran the Zoo^H^H^H Con," managing not
> to kill the baby. Very funny, although most of the humor value is
> schadenfreunde, I'm sure.
I think it was designed by con chairs who were annoyed by all the
criticism they kept getting after doing a tremendous amount of
thankless unpaid work, so that the rest of us can get some idea of
what it's like. It's largely a game of chance, and I'm not convinced
that any of the answers are significantly more likely to result in a
good score than others. It would be easy enough to computer analyze,
though I don't plan to do so. Note that the rival teams don't really
interact, so one team's optimal strategy has little to do with what
the other teams are doing. (Not quite, since you might opt for a
riskier strategy if you're trailing by lots of points than if you're
ahead.)
> There was a brief to-do about the Con Suite not really being
> lockable, leading to the re-invention of the solution they
> apparently used to lock those doors last year -- tying them together
> from the inside with a hanger and then exiting through the other set
> of doors, which would lock behind us.
Pretty much the same was done with the back door to the dealer's room.
Philcon has the same problem. I hear they plan to have some trusted
person sleep in the dealer's room each night.
> I offered Keith a ride to the Metro Station, and then we got lost
> looking for one that was actually useful (Orange Line, as opposed to
> Red, which is what runs out by the con), so I wound up driving him
> home. I went inside to look at the neat treadmill/Usenet reading
> setup, and got to see a bunch of cool computer museum bits and a
> really old fridge (and some ingenious bookcases).
Thanks again for the ride. Now you know that not only am I real,
but so is my apartment and all the things I've said about it and
its contents.
The refrigerator isn't really all that old. I unplugged it maybe
twenty years ago when I realized I never used it. (I shop often
enough that fruit and veggies don't have time to spoil, and I never
buy meat or frozen foods.) During the landlord's annual inspection
she mentioned that it's probably the oldest fridge in the complex.
Only then did it occur to me that I've had it unplugged longer than
the usual lifetime of a refrigerator.
> Sunday I dragged GP (my boyfriend) back to the con, and he spent
> most of his time talking to Keith (thank you!).
I'm not sure which of us you're thanking, or for what. He game me an
interesting math problem I hadn't heard before, and he's knowledgeable
on all manner of technical subjects. We also discussed his hobby of
skydiving. I finally got an answer to my question as to how one cuts
away a malfunctioning parachute given that one is now longer allowed
to bring a knife on a plane.
I'll provide both of you with directions to the next WSFA meeting.
Including GPS coordinates in case he wants to drop in. Altitude,
too, so he knows when to stop falling. That datum is also useful for
someone who arrives by tunneling from below, so that they don't keep
going and end up in midair.
> I went to the Fannish History panel and was amused that I was the
> only person in the room that wasn't starting to (or hadn't already
> finished) going grey.
I was considering attending, but was in an interesting conversation
across the hall. I seldom go to panels, since I prefer interactive
events. Not ones which I might as well be reading in a book or
watching on TV other than the chance of briefly being called on if
I keep my hand up for long enough.
> The stories were cool, but I ducked out at the official "end of the
> panel," because I could see that they weren't going to get to things
> that had happened after my parents had been born any time soon.
I agree that some fan historians tend to compete at who can tell
stories of the earliest events.
I've been working on placing all the WSFA Journals online, in reverse
order starting from the present. (After all, going in forwards order
starting from the present could result in time paradoxes, unless I put
them online very slowly.) I'm dismayed that the fan historians look
on me with utter disdain when I mention how *recent* some of the
issues I can't find are. I guess they won't deign to search their
archives for them until several more decades have passed and those
issues have a greater chance of having been lost forever. Sigh.
> I was rather amused at the reactions me showing up at that panel
> elicited, since they were mostly variations on minor shock.
I would hope people were pleased. We need more young fans, or there
might not be anyone around to host the fan history panel at the 2053
Capclave (barring the development of radical life extension).
> I wound up wandering off to smoke, where I ran into my first ever
> iteration of the "young fen don't exist because young people don't
> read" attitude directed at me by someone who could see that I was
> one of these mythical younger fen.
Some people don't notice age. I tend not to myself. I often default
to assuming everyone is about my age, even when I ought to be able to
plainly see that they're twice my age or half my age.
The first time someone mentioned having seen Star Wars as a child, I
had to stop myself from automatically correcting them. To me, it's a
recent movie, and probably always will be.
I'm less weirded out by people mentioning firsthand recollections of
events that happened before I was born, since of course I was raised
around older people. I'm of the generation that had to put up with
nearly all adults telling us how good we had it today, and how awful
conditions were in the 1930s. More enjoyable were my grandmother's
firsthand recollections of the 19th century.
I've never viewed the 19th century, or the 21st, as particularly
distant. (My first computer programs, more than thirty years ago,
were fully Y2K compliant.) I seem to have a longer time horizon
than most people. I sometimes refer to things I haven't done in
years in the present tense, if I intend to do them again someday.
> GP and I were discussing the con and he mentioned that he'd been
> uncomfortable because the two of us were so radically off the
> average age.
I hope both of you keep coming to cons. I'm sure you'll never be the
youngest people at a Capclave, Balticon, Philcon, or Worldcon. Or at
a WSFA meeting.
Evecon is coming up in January. It attracts a younger crowd. I
seldom go to it, since I don't like the concom's style. For instance
members are exhorted to phone home, and to be sure to drink enough
water. People are placed on panels who are completely ignorant of a
panel's subject. Food and drinks in the con suite must be requested
by each person -- it isn't just placed on the tables. When the con is
officially over everyone is chased out. (When Capclave was officially
over, several of us continued to hang out near where the con suite
used to be, for an additional seven hours.) But you could try it.
--
Keith F. Lynch - k...@keithlynch.net - http://keithlynch.net/
I always welcome replies to my e-mail, postings, and web pages, but
unsolicited bulk e-mail (spam) is not acceptable. Please do not send me
HTML, "rich text," or attachments, as all such email is discarded unread.
Keith F. Lynch
> Also, I noticed a lot of people had signed theirs on the
> "autographed signature" line...
"Authorized signature".
> (This is why you don't put in-jokes on the bottom of con badges,
> especially not when they're things that people could legitimately
> *do* to their badges to render them unreadable!)
I'll mention it to the designer of the badges. The in joke is that
the words "authorized signature" substitute for an actual authorized
signature. The joke goes back to before my first Disclave, 23 years
ago. Perhaps earlier the con chair actually did sign the badges as
they were handed out, I don't know.
The fact that this year those words were immediately under a
horizontal line gave some people the impression that such a signature
was being requested of them.
Kate Secor
"Keith F. Lynch" <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
> Kate Secor <aig...@nospam.verizon.net> wrote:
> > Also, I noticed a lot of people had signed theirs on the
> > "autographed signature" line...
>
> "Authorized signature".
Right, thanks. Brain-o, a sure sign of Benadryl's wonders.
> > (This is why you don't put in-jokes on the bottom of con badges,
> > especially not when they're things that people could legitimately
> > *do* to their badges to render them unreadable!)
>
> I'll mention it to the designer of the badges. The in joke is that
> the words "authorized signature" substitute for an actual authorized
> signature. The joke goes back to before my first Disclave, 23 years
> ago. Perhaps earlier the con chair actually did sign the badges as
> they were handed out, I don't know.
I got the joke because at NonCon (shameless plug: www.noncon.net) has
con badges that *must* be accompanied by the Con Chair's signature
(since it's a college campus, so everyone has to be an "authorized
guest").
> The fact that this year those words were immediately under a
> horizontal line gave some people the impression that such a signature
> was being requested of them.
I saw several badges thus signed.
Aiglet
Kate Secor
"Keith F. Lynch" <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
> Kate Secor <aig...@nospam.verizon.net> wrote:
> > It was nice to get to meet some people, and to apparently prove my
> > own reality.
>
> Yes. That's pretty much how conventions started. Fans who only knew
> each other from fanzines and lettercols started getting together in
> person in the 1930s.
Yep. That was new to me, though -- usually I go to cons to do stuff,
and wind up incidentally seeing people, as opposed to going just to meet
people, which was the point this time.
> > CapClave was ... interesting ... in a different way from what I
> > usually expect cons to be.
>
> What other cons have you been to? I don't think we've been to any of
> the same cons, otherwise your face would have been more familiar to
> me. (I wouldn't necessarily have known *where* I'd seen it, or what
> name goes with it, but I'd know I'd seen it at cons.) My complete
> list of cons, past and future, is at http://keithlynch.net/cons.html.
Not to terribly many -- Darkover, ICon (on Long Island, not in Iowa),
NonCon (obviously), Vericon (the HRSFA con in Boston), some gaming con
at Princeton, GeneriCon (if I remembered the name right -- it's at WPI
in New York State), Contata, Concertino... I *almost* made it to a
LunaCon (as a division head, no less), but moved two weeks before the
con... I feel like I'm missing one, but I think that's just because
some of them are multiples.
> > The directions were super-good, especially since all the walking
> > direction landmarks were easily usable from a car.
>
> Thank you. And thank you for saying so at the gripe session. Instead
> of recycling the directions I wrote last year, I went there exactly
> one week ahead of time, walked it several times, and took notes.
Ah, is that why they were so good? I figured if I was going to say bad
things, I should say good ones too -- carrot/stick/carrot, as it were.
> > ... eventually wandered off to the RASFF party.
>
> > I thought the signs were neat,
>
> I saved one of them. Marilee asked me to tear it down after the
> party. So I did so. And once a piece of paper is in my hand, I have
> a hard time throwing it away. It's filed with the other Capclave
> stuff, and I'll be able to instantly locate and produce it on request
> even forty years from now.
Somehow, I fail to be at all surprised.
> > ... the Goose Man (whose name I catch and forget every time I meet
> > him -- I'm on four or so now),
>
> Me too. He arrived on Friday, but he was without his goose, so I
> didn't recognize him.
The goose is very cool, and it seems to be both developing its own
personality and becoming less of a crutch as it (and he) gets older.
> > ... caught the end of "If I Ran the Zoo^H^H^H Con," managing not
> > to kill the baby. Very funny, although most of the humor value is
> > schadenfreunde, I'm sure.
>
> I think it was designed by con chairs who were annoyed by all the
> criticism they kept getting after doing a tremendous amount of
> thankless unpaid work, so that the rest of us can get some idea of
> what it's like. It's largely a game of chance, and I'm not convinced
> that any of the answers are significantly more likely to result in a
> good score than others. It would be easy enough to computer analyze,
> though I don't plan to do so. Note that the rival teams don't really
> interact, so one team's optimal strategy has little to do with what
> the other teams are doing. (Not quite, since you might opt for a
> riskier strategy if you're trailing by lots of points than if you're
> ahead.)
I was a bit disturbed by the idea that ending with money was a bad thing
to do -- most of the cons I've been exposed to were gleeful to end up
with money afterwards, because it made running the next one easier.
The situation may be different with WorldCons.
> > I offered Keith a ride to the Metro Station, and then we got lost
> > looking for one that was actually useful (Orange Line, as opposed to
> > Red, which is what runs out by the con), so I wound up driving him
> > home. I went inside to look at the neat treadmill/Usenet reading
> > setup, and got to see a bunch of cool computer museum bits and a
> > really old fridge (and some ingenious bookcases).
>
> Thanks again for the ride. Now you know that not only am I real,
> but so is my apartment and all the things I've said about it and
> its contents.
No worries -- it's not like it was that far away, although GP was rather
surprised that I got home so late when there wasn't filking.
> The refrigerator isn't really all that old. I unplugged it maybe
> twenty years ago when I realized I never used it. (I shop often
> enough that fruit and veggies don't have time to spoil, and I never
> buy meat or frozen foods.) During the landlord's annual inspection
> she mentioned that it's probably the oldest fridge in the complex.
> Only then did it occur to me that I've had it unplugged longer than
> the usual lifetime of a refrigerator.
NB, this makes your fridge about as old as I am.
> > Sunday I dragged GP (my boyfriend) back to the con, and he spent
> > most of his time talking to Keith (thank you!).
>
> I'm not sure which of us you're thanking, or for what. He game me an
> interesting math problem I hadn't heard before, and he's knowledgeable
> on all manner of technical subjects. We also discussed his hobby of
> skydiving. I finally got an answer to my question as to how one cuts
> away a malfunctioning parachute given that one is now longer allowed
> to bring a knife on a plane.
I was thanking you, for being willing to talk to him all day. I felt
rather as though I was dumping him on you, but since you didn't seem to
mind, I figured I'd just thank you instead of apologizing.
> I'll provide both of you with directions to the next WSFA meeting.
> Including GPS coordinates in case he wants to drop in. Altitude,
> too, so he knows when to stop falling. That datum is also useful for
> someone who arrives by tunneling from below, so that they don't keep
> going and end up in midair.
I dunno -- it'd be interesting SFnal to find someone who *could* tunnel
up through the air and actually get somewhere... (ObCartoon: "I knew I
should have taken a left turn at Albequerque!")
> > The stories were cool, but I ducked out at the official "end of the
> > panel," because I could see that they weren't going to get to things
> > that had happened after my parents had been born any time soon.
>
> I agree that some fan historians tend to compete at who can tell
> stories of the earliest events.
I mostly went out of a sense of duty towards being the Representative of
My Generation.
> > I was rather amused at the reactions me showing up at that panel
> > elicited, since they were mostly variations on minor shock.
>
> I would hope people were pleased. We need more young fans, or there
> might not be anyone around to host the fan history panel at the 2053
> Capclave (barring the development of radical life extension).
Well... As it's currently being presented, I'm not sure how much value
there is to fannish history, honestly. I don't *care* what person X
said to person Y about event Z when it all happened before my parents
were born and I've never met the people or heard about the event. I'm
sure the people who were there think it's all massively important and
wonderful, but I don't see why that requires anything more than a
personal journal.
I think that there's a lot of interesting things about fannish history,
don't get me wrong, but the presentation it's using at present is dry as
dust.
> > I wound up wandering off to smoke, where I ran into my first ever
> > iteration of the "young fen don't exist because young people don't
> > read" attitude directed at me by someone who could see that I was
> > one of these mythical younger fen.
>
> Some people don't notice age. I tend not to myself. I often default
> to assuming everyone is about my age, even when I ought to be able to
> plainly see that they're twice my age or half my age.
Well, that's why I clearly commented that they could see it -- it was in
the context of me commenting on the differences in avenues that the
speaker's generation and my generation used to find fandom.
> The first time someone mentioned having seen Star Wars as a child, I
> had to stop myself from automatically correcting them. To me, it's a
> recent movie, and probably always will be.
Hee! I was -3 when SW came out.
> I'm less weirded out by people mentioning firsthand recollections of
> events that happened before I was born, since of course I was raised
> around older people. I'm of the generation that had to put up with
> nearly all adults telling us how good we had it today, and how awful
> conditions were in the 1930s. More enjoyable were my grandmother's
> firsthand recollections of the 19th century.
I was an only child raised around adults, so I get along much better
with people 10 - 30 years older than I am, but it's still a bit bizarre
to suddenly realize that I'm the only person in the room under 50.
> > GP and I were discussing the con and he mentioned that he'd been
> > uncomfortable because the two of us were so radically off the
> > average age.
>
> I hope both of you keep coming to cons. I'm sure you'll never be the
> youngest people at a Capclave, Balticon, Philcon, or Worldcon. Or at
> a WSFA meeting.
I think I might have been the youngest independent member of CapClave
this year (discounting the Student Competition people -- they weren't
independent, they were there for a specific event).
<snip EveCon discussion>
I'll have to think about EveCon -- I tend to prefer somewhere in the
middle of the two extremes. Honestly, if it were up to me, cons would
be like bigger versions of the RASFF party -- all people I liked (or at
least found interesting) sitting around with munchies being mutually
entertaining.
Aiglet
(Oh, dear -- that last phrase could sound very bad out of context, but I
can't find a better way to put it. Just take this nice bar of soap...)
James J. Walton
On 24 Nov 2003, Keith F. Lynch wrote:
> I've already walked from Metro to next year's Capclave hotel and back.
Anyone checked out the hotel bar? The bar this year was so tiny it was
almost non-existent and had no interesting beers. And it closed much too
early.
Laurie D. T. Mann
> Anyone checked out the hotel bar? The bar this year was so tiny it was
> almost non-existent and had no interesting beers. And it closed much too
> early.
Last year, I remember spending a lot more time in that bar, particularly
Friday night. I think it was open until at least midnight last year (in
Montgomery County, bars must close by midnight).
A bunch of us were looking for a drink after 11 on Friday night this
year and found the bar had already closed. We walked up to the mall
and went to Ruby Tuesday. They were running a "buy your second beer
for a penny" special. Even though the bar closed by midnight, most of
us had at least 2 beers (and a few had 4!).
--
Laurie D. T. Mann *** *** Noreascon 4 Exhibits Director
http://www.noreascon.org/exhibits
Frequently Updated Web Sites *** http://www.dpsinfo.com
Kip Williams
> In article <bpukea$rh8$1...@panix3.panix.com>,
> "Keith F. Lynch" <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
>>The refrigerator isn't really all that old. I unplugged it maybe
>>twenty years ago when I realized I never used it. (I shop often
>>enough that fruit and veggies don't have time to spoil, and I never
>>buy meat or frozen foods.) During the landlord's annual inspection
>>she mentioned that it's probably the oldest fridge in the complex.
>>Only then did it occur to me that I've had it unplugged longer than
>>the usual lifetime of a refrigerator.
>
>
> NB, this makes your fridge about as old as I am.
Mom and Dad are still using the fridge that was in the house when I
was growing up. I think they've had it since the 50s. The latch
doesn't work any more; since the 70s, it's been held shut with a rope.
Kate Secor
wrote:
> Kate Secor wrote:
> > In article <bpukea$rh8$1...@panix3.panix.com>,
> > "Keith F. Lynch" <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
> >>The refrigerator isn't really all that old. I unplugged it maybe
> >>twenty years ago when I realized I never used it. (I shop often
> >>enough that fruit and veggies don't have time to spoil, and I never
> >>buy meat or frozen foods.) During the landlord's annual inspection
> >>she mentioned that it's probably the oldest fridge in the complex.
> >>Only then did it occur to me that I've had it unplugged longer than
> >>the usual lifetime of a refrigerator.
> >
> >
> > NB, this makes your fridge about as old as I am.
>
> Mom and Dad are still using the fridge that was in the house when I
> was growing up. I think they've had it since the 50s. The latch
> doesn't work any more; since the 70s, it's been held shut with a rope.
Okay, that makes their fridge about as old as my mother would have
been...
Aiglet
(They just don't build 'em like that anymore.)
James J. Walton
On Tue, 25 Nov 2003, Laurie D. T. Mann wrote:
> Last year, I remember spending a lot more time in that bar, particularly
> Friday night. I think it was open until at least midnight last year (in
> Montgomery County, bars must close by midnight).
Is this a recent change? The first time I was in Montgomery County, (30?
years ago) we got kicked out at 3:00 AM.
> A bunch of us were looking for a drink after 11 on Friday night this
> year and found the bar had already closed. We walked up to the mall
> and went to Ruby Tuesday. They were running a "buy your second beer
> for a penny" special. Even though the bar closed by midnight, most of
> us had at least 2 beers (and a few had 4!).
I wasn't just looking at the bar for a drink. At many cons I've attended
the bar is a social focus just like the consuite and hotel lobby. Some of
us are more comfortable in bars, etc. (I wish we had a better bar in the
Confluence hotel, but it hasn't been as critical.)
I wasn't thrilled at the beer selection when I glanced into Ruby Tuesday
and a couple of other bars. Maryland has several microbreweries and
contract breweries. I would think the bars would support the local beers.
I wish to note that I have no complaints with Capclave. All I
have for Capclave and its committee are praise. Everything ran
very well, the space was utilized well, etc.
Marilee J. Layman
<aig...@nospam.verizon.net> wrote:
>
>I was an only child raised around adults, so I get along much better
>with people 10 - 30 years older than I am, but it's still a bit bizarre
>to suddenly realize that I'm the only person in the room under 50.
Hey, I'm only 48!
>I'll have to think about EveCon -- I tend to prefer somewhere in the
>middle of the two extremes. Honestly, if it were up to me, cons would
>be like bigger versions of the RASFF party -- all people I liked (or at
>least found interesting) sitting around with munchies being mutually
>entertaining.
Minicon. Really.
--
Marilee J. Layman
Kate Secor
Marilee J. Layman <mjla...@erols.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 23:50:42 -0500, Kate Secor
> <aig...@nospam.verizon.net> wrote:
>
> >
> >I was an only child raised around adults, so I get along much better
> >with people 10 - 30 years older than I am, but it's still a bit bizarre
> >to suddenly realize that I'm the only person in the room under 50.
>
> Hey, I'm only 48!
Well, true, but you also weren't at the Fan History panel. :)
> >I'll have to think about EveCon -- I tend to prefer somewhere in the
> >middle of the two extremes. Honestly, if it were up to me, cons would
> >be like bigger versions of the RASFF party -- all people I liked (or at
> >least found interesting) sitting around with munchies being mutually
> >entertaining.
>
> Minicon. Really.
But isn't that far away?
Aiglet
David Dyer-Bennet
No, very close. Just up Nicollet Avenue a few miles from here.
Oh, far away from *you* and Marilee? Well, yes, fairly.
(Minneapolis, MN. <http://www.mnstf.org/minicon39/>.)
--
David Dyer-Bennet, <dd...@dd-b.net>, <www.dd-b.net/dd-b/>
RKBA: <noguns-nomoney.com> <www.dd-b.net/carry/>
Photos: <dd-b.lighthunters.net> Snapshots: <www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/>
Dragaera/Steven Brust: <dragaera.info/>
Tom Galloway
Kate Secor <aig...@nospam.verizon.net> wrote:
>at Princeton, GeneriCon (if I remembered the name right -- it's at WPI
>in New York State), Contata, Concertino... I *almost* made it to a
Um, the school usually known as WPI is in Worcester, MA. RPI is in Troy, NY.
tyg t...@panix.com
--
--Yes, the .sig has changed
Kip Williams
> On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 23:50:42 -0500, Kate Secor
> <aig...@nospam.verizon.net> wrote:
>
>
>>I was an only child raised around adults, so I get along much better
>>with people 10 - 30 years older than I am, but it's still a bit bizarre
>>to suddenly realize that I'm the only person in the room under 50.
>
>
> Hey, I'm only 48!
I'm 46, and Cathy is 47. I knew I should have bought a snazzier walker.
Kip Williams
The payoff is incredible. One of the best cons I've attended, as far
as how many people I like can be found in each square foot of space.
Kate Secor
t...@panix.com (Tom Galloway) wrote:
> In article <aiglet-BFDBB9....@news-central.giganews.com>,
> Kate Secor <aig...@nospam.verizon.net> wrote:
> >at Princeton, GeneriCon (if I remembered the name right -- it's at WPI
> >in New York State), Contata, Concertino... I *almost* made it to a
>
> Um, the school usually known as WPI is in Worcester, MA. RPI is in Troy, NY.
Waaah, thank you.
All this knowing similar people at similar school names has got to be
stopped. I shall have to declare that all my friends must dye their
hair different colors, ala anime.
Aiglet
Cathy Doyle
Kip Williams wrote:
> Marilee J. Layman wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 23:50:42 -0500, Kate Secor
>> <aig...@nospam.verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I was an only child raised around adults, so I get along much better
>>> with people 10 - 30 years older than I am, but it's still a bit
>>> bizarre to suddenly realize that I'm the only person in the room
>>> under 50.
>>
>>
>>
>> Hey, I'm only 48!
>
>
> I'm 46, and Cathy is 47. I knew I should have bought a snazzier walker.
>
Sweetheart I'm 49.
Cathy
Keith F. Lynch
> Mom and Dad are still using the fridge that was in the house when I
> was growing up. I think they've had it since the 50s.
I don't consider a refrigerator old unless it has the compressor in
a pedestal on top. I've heard that refrigerators only last fifteen
years on average. So in that sense a refrigerator that is at least
24 is old. But not in the sense that newer refrigerators look or
act any differently. It's not like computers, where a 24 year old
machine is a quaint antique, and would be even if no computer ever
broke down until it was over 30.
Wade Lynch
news:aiglet-3BFAA6....@news-central.ash.giganews.com...
>Wade was there for a while, although very quiet,
Actually I talked more at that party than I normally do all week. Heh!
It was nice meeting you; since I recognized your name from RASFF it wasn't
quite like starting a conversation with a stranger (which I've always been
completely hopeless at, which is why I didn't have as much fun as I should
have.)
Definitely smaller than the Disclaves of old; of course I was young and more
enthusiastic then.
Keith F. Lynch
> Yep. That was new to me, though -- usually I go to cons to do
> stuff, and wind up incidentally seeing people, as opposed to
> going just to meet people, which was the point this time.
I'm the other way around. While I always try to take in *some*
programming, I seldom go to panels and other non-interactive events.
I could get the same information, faster and in a more convenient
form, from books, magazines, or the net.
There's a category of cons that have *no* programming. They're called
"relaxacons". Of course *any* con can be treated as a relaxacon, even
if there are twenty simultaneous tracks of programming you could be
attending, unless there's no place to hang out. (After all, you'd
have to miss at least 19 of them anyway, so why not all all 20?)
> I was a bit disturbed by the idea that ending with money was a bad
> thing to do -- most of the cons I've been exposed to were gleeful
> to end up with money afterwards, because it made running the next
> one easier.
Since cons are run by fans for fans, attendees aren't happy if they
got less for their money than they could have. They feel they've been
taken advantage of. Especially if the con is built on their unpaid
labor, while others are profiting.
Worldcons try to make a profit, but not too much of a profit. They
prefer people to pre-register, so that they know what to budget for.
Since that game was written, this has become somewhat less of an
issue since now Worldcons usually share ("pass-along") funds.
(Though Worldcons are still free to opt out of the arrangement.)
Some clubs have so much money that they've purchased clubhouses.
Baltimore, Boston, and Los Angeles have done so.
> I was thanking you, for being willing to talk to him all day. I
> felt rather as though I was dumping him on you, but since you didn't
> seem to mind, I figured I'd just thank you instead of apologizing.
He's fun to talk to.
Earlier this evening, I solved the math problem he gave me, and
emailed him the solution.
> I mostly went out of a sense of duty towards being the
> Representative of My Generation.
Sigh. Too much balkanization. We are all just fans, and adults.
Once you're 21, you're just as much an adult as anyone else, and have
all the rights you're ever going to get. (Well, ok, you can't run for
Congress yet, or collect Socialist inSecurity.) It's only teenagers
and younger who select their friends based on similar age rather than
similar interests.
Generations don't mean anything. By the official boundaries, my
brother and I are in different generations, which makes no sense.
And my parents are *two* generations from my grandparents, which
makes even less sense.
> Well... As it's currently being presented, I'm not sure how much
> value there is to fannish history, honestly. I don't *care* what
> person X said to person Y about event Z when it all happened before
> my parents were born and I've never met the people or heard about
> the event.
Understandable. That's why it should be in writing: So that it can
be read quickly or skipped over, and so that that information will
still be available after your grandchildren are born.
History is its own reward. I've been putting all the old WSFA
Journals online. In doing so, I've been correcting non-deliberate
misspellings. This involves things such as researching the correct
spelling of the name of someone whose only historical significance is
that they attended *one* WSFA meeting nearly twenty years ago. They
didn't say or do anything during that meeting, but they did sign in.
I hope to live to the day when we all get brain enhancements. The
average person can keep seven facts in mind at the same time. This is
an accident of evolution, not a fundamental physical limit. There's
no reason it shouldn't be seven *trillion*. Imagine being able to
keep in mind every piece of information in every book, magazine,
fanzine, web page, and newsgroup posting ever written. So that if
someone were to mention a name to you, you'd instantly know that they
had posted a single message to rec.pets.aardvarks in 1990, and you'd
know what they said. You'd know not just when and where the Titanic
sank, and why, but also the names of all the victims and survivors,
and their complete biographies. You'd know what show a particular TV
station broadcast at a particular date and time in 1960, and you'd
know not just the plot of the show, but every word and gesture of
every character. You would ace any trivia contest, no matter how
obscure the questions. I think this would be extremely cool.
Quite possibly in a few centuries the population of the solar system
will be ten to the twentieth people, and every one of them will
instantly know that the RASFF party at the 2003 Capclave was held in
room 430, starting at 8 pm on Saturday the 22nd. And will know who
was there, if they were mentioned in a newsgroup posting or fanzine
article.
> I think that there's a lot of interesting things about fannish
> history, don't get me wrong, but the presentation it's using at
> present is dry as dust.
Fans were nearly the only people who were thinking of the 21st
century. There was a bid for a 2010 Worldcon -- in 1958.
I recommend _The Immortal Storm_ by Sam Moskowitz, _The Way the Future
Was_ by Fred Pohl, and the movie _Master and Commander_ currently in
theaters.
Well, ok, the movie has nothing to do with fandom. But it is about
history, and it is anything but dry. In fact, it's very very wet.
> Well, that's why I clearly commented that they could see it -- it
> was in the context of me commenting on the differences in avenues
> that the speaker's generation and my generation used to find fandom.
How did you find fandom?
> Hee! I was -3 when SW came out.
Nothing wrong with negative ages. My own age has been negative for
most of the past.
You're a little older than Susan Calvin, the fictional roboticist from
Asimov's robot series. I celebrated her -10th, 0th, 10th, and 20th
birthdays.
> I was an only child raised around adults, so I get along much better
> with people 10 - 30 years older than I am, but it's still a bit
> bizarre to suddenly realize that I'm the only person in the room
> under 50.
Which room was this? How old do you think I am? I certainly hope I
don't look over 50.
> I think I might have been the youngest independent member of
> CapClave this year (discounting the Student Competition people --
> they weren't independent, they were there for a specific event).
Definitely not. I only know a few members' birthdays, nevertheless,
I can think of at least three who were younger than you. And I'm not
counting the student contest people, or anyone whose parents were at
the con. I'll introduce you to one of them at the WSFA meeting.
But even if you had been, so what? *Someone* has to be the youngest
member. Someone else has to be the oldest. Someone has to be the
tallest, someone else the shortest. If all the outliers left, then
a different set of people would be outliers, and they'd leave, and
pretty soon there'd be just one person left. And since that person
would then be the youngest *and* the oldest, the tallest *and* the
shortest, the fattest *and* the thinnest, etc., they would leave even
more quickly, as they'd feel extremely out of place.
> Honestly, if it were up to me, cons would be like bigger versions of
> the RASFF party -- all people I liked (or at least found interesting)
> sitting around with munchies being mutually entertaining.
Me too.
Actually, conversations have a critical mass. Fewer than three
people, and the conversation tends to fizzle out. More than six, and
it tends to split in two. (Unless one person was skilled at "holding
court", in which case the conversation might remain stable up to ten
or even twenty.)
So a good large con consists of numerous conversations. People
occasionally drift from one to another.
Marilee J. Layman
<aig...@nospam.verizon.net> wrote:
>In article <ur57svoequ8vnbge9...@4ax.com>,
> Marilee J. Layman <mjla...@erols.com> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 23:50:42 -0500, Kate Secor
>> <aig...@nospam.verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >I was an only child raised around adults, so I get along much better
>> >with people 10 - 30 years older than I am, but it's still a bit bizarre
>> >to suddenly realize that I'm the only person in the room under 50.
>>
>> Hey, I'm only 48!
>
>Well, true, but you also weren't at the Fan History panel. :)
Yeah, I was on my way home, to sleep with the cats.
>
>> >I'll have to think about EveCon -- I tend to prefer somewhere in the
>> >middle of the two extremes. Honestly, if it were up to me, cons would
>> >be like bigger versions of the RASFF party -- all people I liked (or at
>> >least found interesting) sitting around with munchies being mutually
>> >entertaining.
>>
>> Minicon. Really.
>
>But isn't that far away?
Mpls, but it's worth it.
--
Marilee J. Layman
Kip Williams
> Kip Williams wrote:
>> I'm 46, and Cathy is 47.
>>
I usually know that.
Kip Williams
> Cathy Doyle wrote:
>> Kip Williams wrote:
>>
>>> I'm 46, and Cathy is 47.
>>
>> Sweetheart I'm 49.
>
> I usually know that.
(Damn numbers change every year!)
Chris Malme
> Kip Williams wrote:
> > Cathy Doyle wrote:
> >> Kip Williams wrote:
> >>
> >>> I'm 46, and Cathy is 47.
> >>
> >> Sweetheart I'm 49.
> >
> > I usually know that.
>
> (Damn numbers change every year!)
Does that mean you still owe two presents?
--
Chris
Minstrel's Hall of Filk - http://www.filklore.com/
Filklore Music Store - http://www.filklore.co.uk/
To contact me, please use form at http://www.filklore.com/contact.phtml
Kip Williams
> Kip Williams <ki...@cox.net> wrote in news:3FC49178...@cox.net:
>>Kip Williams wrote:
>>>Cathy Doyle wrote:
>>>>Kip Williams wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>I'm 46, and Cathy is 47.
>>>>
>>>>Sweetheart I'm 49.
>>>
>>>I usually know that.
>>
>>(Damn numbers change every year!)
>
> Does that mean you still owe two presents?
No, the two years I missed were before we met.
Dave Weingart
>The payoff is incredible. One of the best cons I've attended, as far
>as how many people I like can be found in each square foot of space.
But is there good filk? (Seriously, that IS one of the things I go to
a con for.)
--
73 de Dave Weingart KA2ESK Sixteen Tones (16th UK Filkcon)
mailto:phyd...@liii.com Feb 6-9,2004, Bromsgrove, England
http://www.weingart.net/ GoH: Chris Conway, Bill Roper
ICQ 57055207 http://www.weyrd.org/16tonesindex.htm
Kate Secor
"Wade Lynch" <ws...@erols.com> wrote:
> Kate Secor <aig...@nospam.verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:aiglet-3BFAA6....@news-central.ash.giganews.com...
> >Wade was there for a while, although very quiet,
>
> Actually I talked more at that party than I normally do all week. Heh!
>
> It was nice meeting you; since I recognized your name from RASFF it wasn't
> quite like starting a conversation with a stranger (which I've always been
> completely hopeless at, which is why I didn't have as much fun as I should
> have.)
It was nice to get to meet you! I'll have to remember that you're
normally quiet and make more of an effort to drag you into
conversations.
I know I have this tendency to be rather loud and to overlook quieter
people, and I've been trying to watch out for it and make an effort to
get quieter people involved in conversations.
Aiglet
Kate Secor
wrote:
No, no, you're all 25. It's just that you've been stuck in premature
aging boxes.
Aiglet
Kate Secor
"Keith F. Lynch" <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
> Kate Secor <aig...@nospam.verizon.net> wrote:
> > Yep. That was new to me, though -- usually I go to cons to do
> > stuff, and wind up incidentally seeing people, as opposed to
> > going just to meet people, which was the point this time.
>
> I'm the other way around. While I always try to take in *some*
> programming, I seldom go to panels and other non-interactive events.
> I could get the same information, faster and in a more convenient
> form, from books, magazines, or the net.
I don't necessarily go to panels because I think they'll be informative,
I go to panels because they'll have interesting people talking about
intersting topics. (If I'm lucky -- otherwise I'll just wander out.)
> > I was a bit disturbed by the idea that ending with money was a bad
> > thing to do -- most of the cons I've been exposed to were gleeful
> > to end up with money afterwards, because it made running the next
> > one easier.
>
> Since cons are run by fans for fans, attendees aren't happy if they
> got less for their money than they could have. They feel they've been
> taken advantage of. Especially if the con is built on their unpaid
> labor, while others are profiting.
Ah... I've never seen "extra money left over after a con" as "profit,"
since it could have been spent at any time on an emergency situation I
wasn't expecting. (One of the things that frustrated me about "If I Ran
the Zoo^w Con" was that you could only do one thing at once, where I
think most people would have done more than one or something that wasn't
one of the options.)
When I had money left over after running my cons, it was because we'd
spent a lot of money not running up any bills, so anything we took on
"at con" was emergency money or seed money for the next year.
> Some clubs have so much money that they've purchased clubhouses.
> Baltimore, Boston, and Los Angeles have done so.
That must be nice... I remember when my college club got their very own
room -- it was an enormous relief to have somewhere to store the books
and watch movies without having to reserve a room or get stuff out of
people's dorm rooms.
> > I mostly went out of a sense of duty towards being the
> > Representative of My Generation.
>
> Sigh. Too much balkanization. We are all just fans, and adults.
> Once you're 21, you're just as much an adult as anyone else, and have
> all the rights you're ever going to get. (Well, ok, you can't run for
> Congress yet, or collect Socialist inSecurity.) It's only teenagers
> and younger who select their friends based on similar age rather than
> similar interests.
I've generally selected my friends on the basis of whether or not I
could talk to them, but at the same time, there is a lot of prejudice on
both sides of the fannish generation gap, so I feel like someone needs
to be willing to stand up and point out that a) not all younger fen are
non-readers and b) not all older fen are insular fuddy-duddies who'll
look down on anyone who hasn't read things that have been out of print
longer than we've been alive.
I don't know where the balkanization is coming from -- I suspect from
both sides, honestly.
> > Well... As it's currently being presented, I'm not sure how much
> > value there is to fannish history, honestly. I don't *care* what
> > person X said to person Y about event Z when it all happened before
> > my parents were born and I've never met the people or heard about
> > the event.
>
> Understandable. That's why it should be in writing: So that it can
> be read quickly or skipped over, and so that that information will
> still be available after your grandchildren are born.
The thing is, if the information isn't interesting, what's its value?
There are a lot of things about the history of fandom that *are*
interesting, but I think that they've been discussed so many times by
the people who know them that they're not always willing to discuss them
with people who weren't there and don't know the people (since telling
any given story requires explaining the in-jokes and the backstory).
> I hope to live to the day when we all get brain enhancements. The
> average person can keep seven facts in mind at the same time. This is
> an accident of evolution, not a fundamental physical limit. There's
> no reason it shouldn't be seven *trillion*. Imagine being able to
> keep in mind every piece of information in every book, magazine,
> fanzine, web page, and newsgroup posting ever written. So that if
> someone were to mention a name to you, you'd instantly know that they
> had posted a single message to rec.pets.aardvarks in 1990, and you'd
> know what they said. You'd know not just when and where the Titanic
> sank, and why, but also the names of all the victims and survivors,
> and their complete biographies. You'd know what show a particular TV
> station broadcast at a particular date and time in 1960, and you'd
> know not just the plot of the show, but every word and gesture of
> every character. You would ace any trivia contest, no matter how
> obscure the questions. I think this would be extremely cool.
Oh, I don't... There's a value to forgetting things -- it eases the
pain of some occurrences, and allows people to judge the relative
importance of things (by whether or not they remember them). Trivia is
all well and good, but can be written down and looked up. I'm not sure
I'd want to have crystal-clear memories of everything that's happened in
my own life, much less over the course of the rest of my life, or over
an extended life.
> I recommend _The Immortal Storm_ by Sam Moskowitz, _The Way the Future
> Was_ by Fred Pohl, and the movie _Master and Commander_ currently in
> theaters.
>
> Well, ok, the movie has nothing to do with fandom. But it is about
> history, and it is anything but dry. In fact, it's very very wet.
I've read some of the books, and I'm planning on getting to the movie
whenever I can drag GP out to it. (My comment on watching the trailer
was "Now *that's* a boat movie!")
> > Well, that's why I clearly commented that they could see it -- it
> > was in the context of me commenting on the differences in avenues
> > that the speaker's generation and my generation used to find fandom.
>
> How did you find fandom?
I went looking for it. My father knew it existed, but hadn't been part
of it for many years when he started lending me books. I was tired of
not having anyone to talk about books with, so I went looking for that.
When I got to college, I got dragged to ICon on Long Island, and figured
that there had to be conventions that were smaller and better-run. (I
didn't find one for a long time, which is how I wound up running one of
my own -- which was definitely smaller but arguably not better-run.)
> > I was an only child raised around adults, so I get along much better
> > with people 10 - 30 years older than I am, but it's still a bit
> > bizarre to suddenly realize that I'm the only person in the room
> > under 50.
>
> Which room was this? How old do you think I am? I certainly hope I
> don't look over 50.
The fannish history panel. I figure you're probably in your early to
mid 40's -- but remember, everyone I know is 25 in my head, just like
me.
> Actually, conversations have a critical mass. Fewer than three
> people, and the conversation tends to fizzle out. More than six, and
> it tends to split in two. (Unless one person was skilled at "holding
> court", in which case the conversation might remain stable up to ten
> or even twenty.)
>
> So a good large con consists of numerous conversations. People
> occasionally drift from one to another.
I noticed that in the Con Suite (where I was drifting from table to
table) and at the RASFF party, where there were definitely two or three
conversational groups at any given time.
Aiglet
Bill Higgins
> Kate Secor <aig...@nospam.verizon.net> writes:
>
> > In article <ur57svoequ8vnbge9...@4ax.com>,
> > Marilee J. Layman <mjla...@erols.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Minicon. Really.
> >
> > But isn't that far away?
>
> No, very close. Just up Nicollet Avenue a few miles from here.
>
> Oh, far away from *you* and Marilee? Well, yes, fairly.
>
> (Minneapolis, MN. <http://www.mnstf.org/minicon39/>.)
I was going to say, "Be there. Aloha."
--but then I realized that the phrase was Jack Lord's line at the end of
the "scenes from next week's show." And while our correspondents of
Aiglet's generation are no doubt perfectly familiar with "Book'im, Danno.
Murder One." and Kam Fong as Chin Ho-- thanks to syndication, cable, and
satellite dishes-- the "scenes from next week's show" would be a feature of
the initial run of *Hawaii Five-O* on CBS, which ended in 1980.
Therefore the phrase "Be there. Aloha." might never have been heard
in the land during the lifetime of some of our friends, who grew up in the
era when Previous Leon came to prominence.
So I will content myself with adding to Marilee's advice merely: AOL.
--
Aloha,
Bill Higgins
hig...@fnal.gov
Bill Higgins
> Kate Secor <aig...@nospam.verizon.net> wrote:
> > I went inside to look at the neat treadmill/Usenet reading
> > setup, and got to see a bunch of cool computer museum bits and a
> > really old fridge (and some ingenious bookcases).
>
> Thanks again for the ride. Now you know that not only am I real,
> but so is my apartment and all the things I've said about it and
> its contents.
>
> The refrigerator isn't really all that old. I unplugged it maybe
> twenty years ago when I realized I never used it. (I shop often
> enough that fruit and veggies don't have time to spoil, and I never
> buy meat or frozen foods.) During the landlord's annual inspection
> she mentioned that it's probably the oldest fridge in the complex.
> Only then did it occur to me that I've had it unplugged longer than
> the usual lifetime of a refrigerator.
Do you keep books in it? I would, under the circumstances.
Which ones? I have a few books about Arctic and Antarctic exploration.
Not many about cryogenics-- what I have is at the office, where they're more
likely to be needed.
Maybe the astronomy books dealing with comets, or gas giants.
Definitely Hal Clement's *Iceworld*.
> I'll provide both of you with directions to the next WSFA meeting.
> Including GPS coordinates in case he wants to drop in. Altitude,
> too, so he knows when to stop falling. That datum is also useful for
> someone who arrives by tunneling from below, so that they don't keep
> going and end up in midair.
Fans who traveled this way would proabably refer to themselves as Boredom.
--
Bill Higgins
hig...@fnal.gov
Posting from 744 feet above sea level
Bill Higgins
> Kate Secor <aig...@nospam.verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > I think that there's a lot of interesting things about fannish
> > history, don't get me wrong, but the presentation it's using at
> > present is dry as dust.
>
> Fans were nearly the only people who were thinking of the 21st
> century. There was a bid for a 2010 Worldcon -- in 1958.
>
> I recommend _The Immortal Storm_ by Sam Moskowitz, _The Way the Future
> Was_ by Fred Pohl, and the movie _Master and Commander_ currently in
> theaters.
Egad! Do you think *The Immortal Storm* will appeal to someone who
complains about "dry as dust?"
Okay, maybe titanic struggles to the death, conducted by mail, between tiny
factions of adolescent fanzine editors, aren't "dry." But Moskowitz's
writing sure is turgid.
With your other two recommendations, I concur.
Pohl's book is terrific. I found Damon Knight's *The Futurians* and Harry
Warner's *All Our Yesterdays* and *A Wealth of Fable* to be more enjoyable
guides to fannish history than the Moskowitz tome.
> Well, ok, the movie has nothing to do with fandom. But it is about
> history, and it is anything but dry. In fact, it's very very wet.
You said it.
--
------------ "Sometimes I view science fiction, in relation to fandom, as
Bill Higgins \ a camera which isn't needed once you've gotten the picture.
Fermilab \ Other times I see it as a portal, which you can forget
Internet: \ --or not --once it's taken you somewhere."
hig...@fnal.gov \ --Dave Locke <dave...@bigfoot.com>
David Dyer-Bennet
> One day in Teletubbyland, Kip Williams <ki...@cox.net> said:
> >The payoff is incredible. One of the best cons I've attended, as far
> >as how many people I like can be found in each square foot of space.
>
> But is there good filk? (Seriously, that IS one of the things I go to
> a con for.)
The history of music and Minicon (which is the con Kip was talking
about, despite the subject line up there) is interesting. Minicon has
been very musically oriented since I first got involved. For many
years we regularly had a "musician guest of honor". For years the
music in one room of the con-suite was the highlight of the convention
for a lot of people. Some years we had multiple rooms of the
con-suite doing music plus one or two privately-hosted parties. I've
seen three rooms of music *all* achieve dawn in a good year, back in
the big days. One of the big problems was the number of *good*
performers wanting to be in the "big" circle. (Another problem was
the people who weren't good enough who wanted to play there anyway).
However, much of the music performed is more in the "amateur group
performance" or "singer-songwriter" categories than "filk". On the
gripping hand, it seems to me that "filk" has been moving in those
directions itself over the years. The most traditional Minicon music
activity is the big music circle, where people contribute to other
people's performances -- jamming, if you like. We've certainly had
concert performances (especially when we've had specific music guests)
and such *too*.
Things have been complicated by a few visible people who dislike the
*term* filk, and dislike some of the styles of filk, pretty strongly.
Things have been changing (I've been going to Minicon since 1973, I
believe) over the years. In recent years we've had several people
prominent in the Filk world as music guests, and they seem to me to
have been very well received.
I think of Minicon as still being a rather musical convention, but
whether it does it differently from the way you're used to in a way
that would upset you, I have no idea.
Matthew B. Tepper
letters to be typed in news:m2smka9...@gw.dd-b.net:
> However, much of the music performed [at Minicon] is more in the "amateur
> group performance" or "singer-songwriter" categories than "filk". On the
> gripping hand, it seems to me that "filk" has been moving in those
> directions itself over the years. The most traditional Minicon music
> activity is the big music circle, where people contribute to other
> people's performances -- jamming, if you like. We've certainly had
> concert performances (especially when we've had specific music guests)
> and such *too*.
Does anybody recall at which Minicon I gave my Lieder recital as a program
item? I seem to think it was 1982 or 1983. It may have been the same year
I was to have been GoH Liaison for a GoH who cancelled, leaving me with no
committee title; when I brought this up at a committee meeting, somebody
suggested I be listed as "baritone."
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Russell Watson is to opera as VelveetaT is to aged cheddar cheese
Matthew B. Tepper
letters to be typed in
> On Tue, 25 Nov 2003, Keith F. Lynch wrote:
>
>> Kate Secor <aig...@nospam.verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>> > I think that there's a lot of interesting things about fannish
>> > history, don't get me wrong, but the presentation it's using at
>> > present is dry as dust.
>>
>> Fans were nearly the only people who were thinking of the 21st
>> century. There was a bid for a 2010 Worldcon -- in 1958.
>>
>> I recommend _The Immortal Storm_ by Sam Moskowitz, _The Way the
>> Future Was_ by Fred Pohl, and the movie _Master and Commander_
>> currently in theaters.
>
> Egad! Do you think *The Immortal Storm* will appeal to someone who
> complains about "dry as dust?"
>
> Okay, maybe titanic struggles to the death, conducted by mail, between
> tiny factions of adolescent fanzine editors, aren't "dry." But
> Moskowitz's writing sure is turgid.
>
> With your other two recommendations, I concur.
>
> Pohl's book is terrific. I found Damon Knight's *The Futurians* and
> Harry Warner's *All Our Yesterdays* and *A Wealth of Fable* to be more
> enjoyable guides to fannish history than the Moskowitz tome.
I agree, particularly about Pohl's book, which does such a brilliant job of
invoking New York City of its time that it provided half of the impetus for
me to take a trip there in 1979. Another third was a concert I attended by
the New York Philharmonic, on tour at the San Francisco War Memorial Opera
House. Afterwards, fan Dave Nee and I and lots of non-fans chased around
the exits to see where Lenny would emerge; I guessed right, and got a brief
glimpse of the great man, impeccably attired in full evening dress and a
red-lined cape, striding purposefully toward his limo.
The remaining sixth of my impetus was, I am almost ashamed to say, repeated
hearings of the Original Cast album of "Annie."
>> Well, ok, the movie has nothing to do with fandom. But it is about
>> history, and it is anything but dry. In fact, it's very very wet.
>
> You said it.
--
Matthew B. Tepper
letters to be typed in
news:Pine.SGI.4.58.031...@fsgi01.fnal.gov:
> On Tue, 25 Nov 2003, David Dyer-Bennet wrote:
Jack Benny reference is where? (I've been listening to the shows, usually
four or five a day, for the last few months. I have mostly been filling in
the ones I hadn't heard before, but upon reaching the golden post-war years
with the best cast and the best writing, I have been listening to them all
in order whether or not I had heard them before, in order to catch the
references to running jokes that I might not have caught previously. I'm
presently at the end of 1947, where one of the running jokes is Norman
Krasna laughing like a cross between Woody Woodpecker and a donkey.)
Marilee J. Layman
Weingart) wrote:
>One day in Teletubbyland, Kip Williams <ki...@cox.net> said:
>>The payoff is incredible. One of the best cons I've attended, as far
>>as how many people I like can be found in each square foot of space.
>
>But is there good filk? (Seriously, that IS one of the things I go to
>a con for.)
I hear so -- Leslie Fish was a GoH a couple of years ago. I generally
go to the music parties, but there are a fair bunch of filkers.
--
Marilee J. Layman
Marilee J. Layman
<mjla...@erols.com> wrote:
>On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 13:44:51 -0500, Kate Secor
><aig...@nospam.verizon.net> wrote:
>
>>In article <ur57svoequ8vnbge9...@4ax.com>,
>> Marilee J. Layman <mjla...@erols.com> wrote:
>>> Minicon. Really.
>>
>>But isn't that far away?
>
>Mpls, but it's worth it.
And I realized later, there's *lots* of people your age. (And people
my age, and older and younger, etc.)
--
Marilee J. Layman
Bill Higgins
> Jack Benny reference is where?
It's Minicon Thirty-Nine.
> (I've been listening to the shows, usually
> four or five a day, for the last few months. I have mostly been filling in
> the ones I hadn't heard before, but upon reaching the golden post-war years
> with the best cast and the best writing, I have been listening to them all
> in order whether or not I had heard them before, in order to catch the
> references to running jokes that I might not have caught previously. I'm
> presently at the end of 1947, where one of the running jokes is Norman
> Krasna laughing like a cross between Woody Woodpecker and a donkey.)
I wonder what it would be like to hear them in order; I hear Jack Benny on
WDCB's weekly four-hour "Those Were the Days" (plug, the program director is
a dear friend), and the host, Chuck Schaden, schedules Jack Benny shows
randomly distributed through the years.
Mostly I've heard them from the late Forties and early Fifties, when, as you
say, they seem to be particularly good.
It may interest you to know that Mr. Schaden has just published a book of
interviews of radio performers, *Speaking of Radio*. In the past few decades
he's hunted down a lot of retired actors and writers and played their taped
reminiscences on his show, which I've usually enjoyed.
Looking at <http://www.nostalgiadigest.com/speaking%20of%20radio2.htm>, I
see the book includes conversations with Jack Benny, Phil Harris, Don
Wilson, and Frank Nelson, so it may be worth a look if you're a Benny buff.
--
Submarines, flying boats, robots, talking pictures, | Bill Higgins
radio, television, bouncing radar vibrations |
off the Moon, rocket ships, and atom-splitting-- | Fermilab
all in our time. But nobody has yet been able |
to figure out a music holder for | Internet:
a marching piccolo player. |
--Meredith Willson, 1948 | hig...@fnal.gov
David Dyer-Bennet
> David Dyer-Bennet <dd...@dd-b.net> appears to have caused the following
> letters to be typed in news:m2smka9...@gw.dd-b.net:
>
> > However, much of the music performed [at Minicon] is more in the "amateur
> > group performance" or "singer-songwriter" categories than "filk". On the
> > gripping hand, it seems to me that "filk" has been moving in those
> > directions itself over the years. The most traditional Minicon music
> > activity is the big music circle, where people contribute to other
> > people's performances -- jamming, if you like. We've certainly had
> > concert performances (especially when we've had specific music guests)
> > and such *too*.
>
> Does anybody recall at which Minicon I gave my Lieder recital as a program
> item? I seem to think it was 1982 or 1983. It may have been the same year
> I was to have been GoH Liaison for a GoH who cancelled, leaving me with no
> committee title; when I brought this up at a committee meeting, somebody
> suggested I be listed as "baritone."
I'm sorry to say that I do not remember. I wasn't getting to
committee meetings those years, being in Massachusetts, so I'd only
have the actual event at the convention to burn it into my memory, not
also the pre-discussion.
Kip Williams
> One day in Teletubbyland, Kip Williams <ki...@cox.net> said:
>
>>The payoff is incredible. One of the best cons I've attended, as far
>>as how many people I like can be found in each square foot of space.
>
> But is there good filk? (Seriously, that IS one of the things I go to
> a con for.)
There's a room where the music don't ever seem to stop. Someone with
experience of more than one Minicon should amplify on this, but my
impression is that it's a con that loves its music.
The one I was at, they had a nice grand piano in the lobby and they
let me play it for a long time. I appreciate that.
Cally Soukup
> The one [Minicon] I was at, they had a nice grand piano in the lobby
> and they let me play it for a long time. I appreciate that.
So did we.
--
"I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend
to the death your right to say it." -- Beatrice Hall
Cally Soukup sou...@pobox.com
Jenn Ridley
>There's a room where the music don't ever seem to stop. Someone with
>experience of more than one Minicon should amplify on this, but my
>impression is that it's a con that loves its music.
>
>The one I was at, they had a nice grand piano in the lobby and they
>let me play it for a long time. I appreciate that.
There's often a piano in the lobby at MiniCon, and often someone good
playing it. I remember a Minicon many years ago (my 12 yo daughter
was still a tot!) when we 'had to' stay in the upper lobby and listen
to the piano (it wasn't a sacrifice).... I rocked her to sleep to the
piano, and then went off to the North Tower and tucked her in.
jenn
--
Jenn Ridley
jri...@chartermi.net
Matthew燘. Tepper
> "Matthew B. Tepper" <oyþ@earthlink.net> writes:
>
>> David Dyer-Bennet <dd...@dd-b.net> appears to have caused the following
>> letters to be typed in news:m2smka9...@gw.dd-b.net:
>>
>> > However, much of the music performed [at Minicon] is more in the
>> > "amateur group performance" or "singer-songwriter" categories than
>> > "filk". On the gripping hand, it seems to me that "filk" has been
>> > moving in those directions itself over the years. The most
>> > traditional Minicon music activity is the big music circle, where
>> > people contribute to other people's performances -- jamming, if you
>> > like. We've certainly had concert performances (especially when
>> > we've had specific music guests) and such *too*.
>>
>> Does anybody recall at which Minicon I gave my Lieder recital as a
>> program item? I seem to think it was 1982 or 1983. It may have been
>> the same year I was to have been GoH Liaison for a GoH who cancelled,
>> leaving me with no committee title; when I brought this up at a
>> committee meeting, somebody suggested I be listed as "baritone."
>
> I'm sorry to say that I do not remember. I wasn't getting to committee
> meetings those years, being in Massachusetts, so I'd only have the actual
> event at the convention to burn it into my memory, not also the pre-
> discussion.
Well, I remember that you moved to Massachusetts in 1981. The way I
remember that, if I may wax Proustian for a moment, is that I had been
leasing a piano from Marti Hiller, and she moved to Boston; when DEC moved
you to that vicinity, you kindly offered to take the piano there, provided
I could have it transported to your house first.
I was able to get it moved there, but some disasters occurred. One was
that a tornado knocked down a tree in front of your house, blocking the
entryway so that the piano could not be moved in. And I had to make all
the arrangements by phone from home, as I was less than optimally mobile,
having acquired a plaster cast on my left foot.
I acquired that cast one Saturday when I woke up with a craving for
falafel, rousted my then-girlfriend Rena S. (I omit surnames of non-fans
out of tact, or at least consideration), and took her to brunch at the Java
at 2801 Nicollet Avenue (an Egyptian restaurant, despite the name), and
while walking along the sidewalk afterwards, tripped over my own leg and
broke the fifth metatarsal bone in the aforementioned foot.
Fortunately, as a graduate student at the U, I had full medical coverage
... but only if I could get to the student health center before they closed
at noon! Jonathan Adams was kind enough to rush over, pick me up, drive me
there, and help me hop through the door at 11:59 a.m. The bone was set by
a doctor with an Estonian name; at least, I *think* he was Estonian, as his
name sounded Finnish and I asked him about it, but he said he was "a
Balt." Perhaps he was tired of explaining to people where Estonia is.
Okay, okay, I'm getting there. I was dating Rena S. (who played the flute
and the harp, by the way, albeit not at the same time) through part of
1981, having been set up on a blind date with her by her friend Maxine T.,
who at the time was Ken Konkol's girlfriend. Ergo, you moved in mid-1981!
I guess I'd have to look at some old Minicon program books to narrow the
timing of my recital down to the proper year, however.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Russell Watson is to opera as Velveeta™ is to aged cheddar cheese
Matthew燘. Tepper
letters to be typed in
news:Pine.SGI.4.58.031...@fsgi01.fnal.gov:
> On Wed, 26 Nov 2003, Matthew B. Tepper wrote:
>
>> Jack Benny reference is where?
>
> It's Minicon Thirty-Nine.
*smek* (sound of palm hitting forehead) I feel like Dennis Day! When I
began going to Minicons, the numbers were in the teens. Aiee.
>> (I've been listening to the shows, usually four or five a day, for the
>> last few months. I have mostly been filling in the ones I hadn't heard
>> before, but upon reaching the golden post-war years with the best cast
>> and the best writing, I have been listening to them all in order whether
>> or not I had heard them before, in order to catch the references to
>> running jokes that I might not have caught previously. I'm presently at
>> the end of 1947, where one of the running jokes is Norman Krasna
>> laughing like a cross between Woody Woodpecker and a donkey.)
>
> I wonder what it would be like to hear them in order; I hear Jack Benny
> on WDCB's weekly four-hour "Those Were the Days" (plug, the program
> director is a dear friend), and the host, Chuck Schaden, schedules Jack
> Benny shows randomly distributed through the years.
I believe it is trivially possible to get them, either via P2P (which is
how I began to acquire them during the waning days of Napster, when I spent
ten weeks on disability for respiratory problems before I was well enough
to work again) or download from alt.binaries.sounds.radio.oldtime, e.g.
Los Angeles fan Bob Null apparently knows of a source of CDRs containing
all or most of the known extant programs.
> Mostly I've heard them from the late Forties and early Fifties, when, as
> you say, they seem to be particularly good.
>
> It may interest you to know that Mr. Schaden has just published a book
> of interviews of radio performers, *Speaking of Radio*. In the past few
> decades he's hunted down a lot of retired actors and writers and played
> their taped reminiscences on his show, which I've usually enjoyed.
>
> Looking at <http://www.nostalgiadigest.com/speaking%20of%20radio2.htm>,
> I see the book includes conversations with Jack Benny, Phil Harris, Don
> Wilson, and Frank Nelson, so it may be worth a look if you're a Benny
> buff.
That is indeed interesting, and I thank you for the link! Perhaps it will
become one of the constant reference companions by my computer, as have
Gerald Nachman's _Raised on Radio_ and _Sunday Nights at Seven_, by "Jack
Benny and his daughter Joan" (not nearly enough of the first and far too
much of the second, if you ask me).
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Russell Watson is to opera as Velveeta™ is to aged cheddar cheese
David Dyer-Bennet
And I actually say Marty (I remember it as with a 'y', but whatever)
at the second WFC here, not that long ago still. She seems to be
doing well.
> I was able to get it moved there, but some disasters occurred. One was
> that a tornado knocked down a tree in front of your house, blocking the
> entryway so that the piano could not be moved in. And I had to make all
> the arrangements by phone from home, as I was less than optimally mobile,
> having acquired a plaster cast on my left foot.
Which ended up being resolved by having the piano taken to the movers'
warehouse instead (which was probably easier for all concerned).
That set of storms was on my parents' anniversary, and I was supposed
to meet them in Stillwater for dinner (and did, in the end).
> I acquired that cast one Saturday when I woke up with a craving for
> falafel, rousted my then-girlfriend Rena S. (I omit surnames of non-fans
> out of tact, or at least consideration), and took her to brunch at the Java
> at 2801 Nicollet Avenue (an Egyptian restaurant, despite the name), and
> while walking along the sidewalk afterwards, tripped over my own leg and
> broke the fifth metatarsal bone in the aforementioned foot.
They're still there.
> Fortunately, as a graduate student at the U, I had full medical coverage
> ... but only if I could get to the student health center before they closed
> at noon! Jonathan Adams was kind enough to rush over, pick me up, drive me
> there, and help me hop through the door at 11:59 a.m. The bone was set by
> a doctor with an Estonian name; at least, I *think* he was Estonian, as his
> name sounded Finnish and I asked him about it, but he said he was "a
> Balt." Perhaps he was tired of explaining to people where Estonia is.
>
> Okay, okay, I'm getting there. I was dating Rena S. (who played the flute
> and the harp, by the way, albeit not at the same time) through part of
> 1981, having been set up on a blind date with her by her friend Maxine T.,
> who at the time was Ken Konkol's girlfriend. Ergo, you moved in mid-1981!
Yes, I did. (And I've got a nice photo in the album, but not I think
on the web, of you and somebody who must be Rena, unless you had
*another* flute-playing gf in that timeframe.)
> I guess I'd have to look at some old Minicon program books to narrow the
> timing of my recital down to the proper year, however.
I don't believe they're on the web, either. Really should be I think.
Samuel Lubell
<aig...@nospam.verizon.net> sent via passenger pigeon:
>
>CapClave was ... interesting ... in a different way from what I usually
>expect cons to be.
I'm glad you had a good time at Capclave.
>At some point I found Keith and introduced myself, and we had a nice
>chat. I went out to dinner with some people I'd met while playing
>number games, came back, found out that it was three hours earlier than
>I'd thought it was, hit the dealer's room for some new books, and curled
>up in a corner to read. Had a nice conversation with the person I'd
>gone to dinner with (Candy Msomething), watched Keith play Scrabble, and
>eventually wandered off to the RASFF party.
Great! This is what is supposed to happen at Capclave, a chance for
fans to meet each other and talk.
>Sunday I dragged GP (my boyfriend) back to the con, and he spent most of
>his time talking to Keith (thank you!). I went to the Fannish History
>panel and was amused that I was the only person in the room that wasn't
>starting to (or hadn't already finished) going grey. The stories were
>cool, but I ducked out at the official "end of the panel," because I
>could see that they weren't going to get to things that had happened
>after my parents had been born any time soon. I was rather amused at
>the reactions me showing up at that panel elicited, since they were
>mostly variations on minor shock.
Well, people have trouble thinking that their recent memories could be
considered history by others.
>
>GP and Keith had been sitting in the Dealer's Room, and we eventually
>moved out to the hallway and thence down to the lobby, where we got
>sucked into the Gripe Session/BWSMOFs meeting. I made some suggestions
>(staff ribbons!) and listened. GP was bored, I think. GP got sucked
>into a conversation with Keith and Ben Yalow and a couple of other
>people (one of whom I recognized but have never been introduced to). I
>wound up wandering off to smoke, where I ran into my first ever
>iteration of the "young fen don't exist because young people don't read"
>attitude directed at me by someone who could see that I was one of these
>mythical younger fen.
In an age of 800+ page Harry Potter blockbusters, I don't see how
anyone could make that claim.
>GP and I were discussing the con and he mentioned that he'd been
>uncomfortable because the two of us were so radically off the average
>age. I have some theories about this, but they'd be another post of
>this length, so I'll save them for later.
>All in all, a reasonably good time, if not quite what I was expecting,
>much livened up by getting to meet/see people I know and like.
I don't know what you were expecting but I'm glad you had a good time.
Joe Mayhew used to call WSFA's conventions a party for those who read
and I like to think of Capclave as a mini-Readercon done as a
Relaxacon.
Samuel Lubell
>with people 10 - 30 years older than I am, but it's still a bit bizarre
>
>> > GP and I were discussing the con and he mentioned that he'd been
>> > uncomfortable because the two of us were so radically off the
>> > average age.
You weren't that far off. The con was run mostly by people in their
30s and lower 40s. And there were a lot of student contest winners
wandering around on Saturday.
>>
>> I hope both of you keep coming to cons. I'm sure you'll never be the
>> youngest people at a Capclave, Balticon, Philcon, or Worldcon. Or at
>> a WSFA meeting.
>
>I think I might have been the youngest independent member of CapClave
>this year (discounting the Student Competition people -- they weren't
>independent, they were there for a specific event).
>
><snip EveCon discussion>
>
>I'll have to think about EveCon -- I tend to prefer somewhere in the
>middle of the two extremes. Honestly, if it were up to me, cons would
>be like bigger versions of the RASFF party -- all people I liked (or at
>least found interesting) sitting around with munchies being mutually
>entertaining.
>
>Aiglet
>(Oh, dear -- that last phrase could sound very bad out of context, but I
>can't find a better way to put it. Just take this nice bar of soap...)
Matthew燘. Tepper
I'm glad to read that. And I think you're correct about the spelling of
her name; I momentarily confused her with another woman who was a friend of
Neeters (now Anita Hollister) in the 1970s.
>> I was able to get it moved there, but some disasters occurred. One was
>> that a tornado knocked down a tree in front of your house, blocking the
>> entryway so that the piano could not be moved in. And I had to make
>> all the arrangements by phone from home, as I was less than optimally
>> mobile, having acquired a plaster cast on my left foot.
>
> Which ended up being resolved by having the piano taken to the movers'
> warehouse instead (which was probably easier for all concerned).
Yes, I remember that as well, now that you're reminded me.
> That set of storms was on my parents' anniversary, and I was supposed
> to meet them in Stillwater for dinner (and did, in the end).
>
>> I acquired that cast one Saturday when I woke up with a craving for
>> falafel, rousted my then-girlfriend Rena S. (I omit surnames of
>> non-fans out of tact, or at least consideration), and took her to
>> brunch at the Java at 2801 Nicollet Avenue (an Egyptian restaurant,
>> despite the name), and while walking along the sidewalk afterwards,
>> tripped over my own leg and broke the fifth metatarsal bone in the
>> aforementioned foot.
>
> They're still there.
That's also good to know; it was my favorite non-Asian-food restaurant in
Minneapolis. I last ate there in July 2001. No, I wasn't in town for a
fannish reason, but to visit my ex-fiancée Marie L. She is not a Minn-Stf
person but she is an SF reader and media fan, and has attended several
Minicons; in fact, she played French horn in the production of "Oklahoma"
in which Steve Brust portrayed Ali Hakim, and he introduced me to her at
the 1983 Minicon. She was delighted to accompany me to various eateries of
which I had fond memories, such as the Java and Annie's Parlour; and she
also tempted me into visiting a then-brand-new restaurant called Quang's.
Apart from the fans, I think the thing I miss most about Minneapolis is the
Vietnamese restaurants.
>> Fortunately, as a graduate student at the U, I had full medical
>> coverage ... but only if I could get to the student health center
>> before they closed at noon! Jonathan Adams was kind enough to rush
>> over, pick me up, drive me there, and help me hop through the door at
>> 11:59 a.m. The bone was set by a doctor with an Estonian name; at
>> least, I *think* he was Estonian, as his name sounded Finnish and I
>> asked him about it, but he said he was "a Balt." Perhaps he was tired
>> of explaining to people where Estonia is.
>>
>> Okay, okay, I'm getting there. I was dating Rena S. (who played the
>> flute and the harp, by the way, albeit not at the same time) through
>> part of 1981, having been set up on a blind date with her by her friend
>> Maxine T., who at the time was Ken Konkol's girlfriend. Ergo, you
>> moved in mid-1981!
>
> Yes, I did. (And I've got a nice photo in the album, but not I think
> on the web, of you and somebody who must be Rena, unless you had
> *another* flute-playing gf in that timeframe.)
Nope, the only one from those years, though I dated other flutists at other
times, and other types of musicians in my Minneapolis years. Rena was
petite and slender, with long straight light-brown hair, quiet but very
much inclined to giggle. I remember limping along (my foot was still in
the plaster cast) with her to a wedding reception she played at the Women's
Club (yes, this is where Tiny Tim had his fatal heart attack), on Oak Grove
Street, not far from where I lived; the only selection I'm certain about
was the Sicilienne from Gabriel Fauré's "Pelléas et Mélisande."
Rena had a Japanese roommate named Miki, who in turn had a small cat named
Moomin. Rena's harp stood in the middle of the apartment's living room,
and I remember eagerly trying out pedal settings cribbed from Kent Kennan's
_The Technique of Orchestration_. (It's amazing how much I can remember
once I begin associating!) Eventually Rena seemed to have become a PETA-
style animal rights activist, or at least that's the only reference I can
find to her on the Web under her original surname. I imagine she's long
since married; her parents had hoped it would be to me!
I wouldn't mind seeing that picture, if you would be so kind. I just spent
a pleasant hour browsing your online album and it brought back memories of
the best of my seven years in Minneapolis. I avoided photos showing snow,
which would have been the worst. And the pics of Susan Guthman Henry
activated another memory; her husband Lawrence was my accompanist for my
two Lieder recitals (one given at a Minicon, one given at the U).
>> I guess I'd have to look at some old Minicon program books to narrow
>> the timing of my recital down to the proper year, however.
>
> I don't believe they're on the web, either. Really should be I think.
I'd love to see those as well.
Niall McAuley
> Therefore the phrase "Be there. Aloha." might never have been heard
> in the land during the lifetime of some of our friends, who grew up in the
> era when Previous Leon came to prominence.
I saw Hawaii Five-0 before 1980, but they never ran scenes from
next weeks show in this market that I can remember, so the phrase
is new to me.
--
Niall [real address ends in com, not moc.invalid]
Wade Lynch
> It was nice to get to meet you! I'll have to remember that you're
> normally quiet and make more of an effort to drag you into
> conversations.
>
> I know I have this tendency to be rather loud and to overlook quieter
> people, and I've been trying to watch out for it and make an effort to
> get quieter people involved in conversations.
You're a lifesaver! Thanks!
David Dyer-Bennet
> David Dyer-Bennet <dd...@dd-b.net> appears to have caused the following
> letters to be typed in news:m28ym2v...@gw.dd-b.net:
> > Yes, I did. (And I've got a nice photo in the album, but not I think
> > on the web, of you and somebody who must be Rena, unless you had
> > *another* flute-playing gf in that timeframe.)
>
> Nope, the only one from those years, though I dated other flutists at other
> times, and other types of musicians in my Minneapolis years. Rena was
> petite and slender, with long straight light-brown hair, quiet but very
> much inclined to giggle. I remember limping along (my foot was still in
> the plaster cast) with her to a wedding reception she played at the Women's
> Club (yes, this is where Tiny Tim had his fatal heart attack), on Oak Grove
> Street, not far from where I lived; the only selection I'm certain about
> was the Sicilienne from Gabriel Fauré's "Pelléas et Mélisande."
And I don't know why I didn't remember this before, since you'd
already mentioned the cast on your foot, but those this picture is
associated with pictures showing the cast.
[snip]
> I wouldn't mind seeing that picture, if you would be so kind. I just spent
> a pleasant hour browsing your online album and it brought back memories of
> the best of my seven years in Minneapolis. I avoided photos showing snow,
> which would have been the worst. And the pics of Susan Guthman Henry
> activated another memory; her husband Lawrence was my accompanist for my
> two Lieder recitals (one given at a Minicon, one given at the U).
I'll get that picture up on the list, I'm probably due for another
round of old-photo activity soon.
Lawrence does a fair amount of that I believe. I've also seen him
listed as rehearsal pianist for G&SVLOC productions, for that matter.
> >> I guess I'd have to look at some old Minicon program books to narrow
> >> the timing of my recital down to the proper year, however.
> >
> > I don't believe they're on the web, either. Really should be I think.
>
> I'd love to see those as well.
I notice some of the history sections are already starting to decay.
Maybe I can get somebody to take an interest again. I wonder if
anybody but Geri has good files? Maybe we should get this done *soon*
before she leaves.
Matthew燘. Tepper
> "Matthew B. Tepper" <oyþ@earthlink.net> writes:
>
>> David Dyer-Bennet <dd...@dd-b.net> appears to have caused the following
>> letters to be typed in news:m28ym2v...@gw.dd-b.net:
>
>> > Yes, I did. (And I've got a nice photo in the album, but not I think
>> > on the web, of you and somebody who must be Rena, unless you had
>> > *another* flute-playing gf in that timeframe.)
>>
>> Nope, the only one from those years, though I dated other flutists at
>> other times, and other types of musicians in my Minneapolis years.
>> Rena was petite and slender, with long straight light-brown hair, quiet
>> but very much inclined to giggle. I remember limping along (my foot
>> was still in the plaster cast) with her to a wedding reception she
>> played at the Women's Club (yes, this is where Tiny Tim had his fatal
>> heart attack), on Oak Grove Street, not far from where I lived; the
>> only selection I'm certain about was the Sicilienne from Gabriel
>> Fauré's "Pelléas et Mélisande."
>
> And I don't know why I didn't remember this before, since you'd already
> mentioned the cast on your foot, but those this picture is associated
> with pictures showing the cast.
Well, there it is!
> [snip]
>
>> I wouldn't mind seeing that picture, if you would be so kind. I just
>> spent a pleasant hour browsing your online album and it brought back
>> memories of the best of my seven years in Minneapolis. I avoided
>> photos showing snow, which would have been the worst. And the pics of
>> Susan Guthman Henry activated another memory; her husband Lawrence was
>> my accompanist for my two Lieder recitals (one given at a Minicon, one
>> given at the U).
>
> I'll get that picture up on the list, I'm probably due for another
> round of old-photo activity soon.
>
> Lawrence does a fair amount of that I believe. I've also seen him
> listed as rehearsal pianist for G&SVLOC productions, for that matter.
Another memory circle closed; I was assistant music director of the GSVLOC
(their preferred initials, at least according to their Website), sang the
Counsel in several run-outs of "Trial By Jury," and was chorus master and
vocal coach for their first production of "Princess Ida." The pianist in
those days was one Joanne Thrash, an excellent musician and drop-dead
beautiful blonde. At least Lawrence is as fine a vocal accompanist! ;--)
>> >> I guess I'd have to look at some old Minicon program books to narrow
>> >> the timing of my recital down to the proper year, however.
>> >
>> > I don't believe they're on the web, either. Really should be I think.
>>
>> I'd love to see those as well.
>
> I notice some of the history sections are already starting to decay.
> Maybe I can get somebody to take an interest again. I wonder if anybody
> but Geri has good files? Maybe we should get this done *soon* before she
> leaves.
Geri is leaving? Huh?
Cally Soukup
> David Dyer-Bennet <dd...@dd-b.net> appears to have caused the following
> letters to be typed in news:m28ym1p...@gw.dd-b.net:
>> I notice some of the history sections are already starting to decay.
>> Maybe I can get somebody to take an interest again. I wonder if anybody
>> but Geri has good files? Maybe we should get this done *soon* before she
>> leaves.
> Geri is leaving? Huh?
She's moving to the Eastern Suburbs of Minneapolis. Something like
1000-1500 miles east. Expect to see her at Boscones and such.
Marilee J. Layman
*And* Steve McDonald was a GoH last year -- you'd think I'd remember
these things!
--
Marilee J. Layman
David Dyer-Bennet
> Geri is leaving? Huh?
You didn't notice Toad Hall with the for-sale sign in front of it in
the snapshot album, eh?
Say this one
<http://www.dd-b.net/cgi-bin/picpage.cgi/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/data/2003/10100-Houses/ddb%2020031010%20010-002.jpg>
Matthew燘. Tepper
letters to be typed in news:bq5ipj$ogr$2...@wheel2.two14.net:
> "Matthew?B. Tepper" <oy?@earthlink.net> wrote in article
> <Xns94406D03DC8...@207.217.77.203>:
>> David Dyer-Bennet <dd...@dd-b.net> appears to have caused the following
>> letters to be typed in news:m28ym1p...@gw.dd-b.net:
>
>>> I notice some of the history sections are already starting to decay.
>>> Maybe I can get somebody to take an interest again. I wonder if
>>> anybody but Geri has good files? Maybe we should get this done *soon*
>>> before she leaves.
>
>> Geri is leaving? Huh?
>
> She's moving to the Eastern Suburbs of Minneapolis. Something like
> 1000-1500 miles east. Expect to see her at Boscones and such.
The only Boskone I have ever attended was in 1970....
Matthew燘. Tepper
> "Matthew B. Tepper" <oyþ@earthlink.net> writes:
>
>> Geri is leaving? Huh?
>
> You didn't notice Toad Hall with the for-sale sign in front of it in
> the snapshot album, eh?
>
> Say this one
><http://www.dd-b.net/cgi-bin/picpage.cgi/dd-
b/SnapshotAlbum/data/2003/10100-Houses/ddb%2020031010%20010-002.jpg>
Well, dang. Another era passes.
Dave Weingart
>seen three rooms of music *all* achieve dawn in a good year, back in
>the big days. One of the big problems was the number of *good*
>performers wanting to be in the "big" circle. (Another problem was
>the people who weren't good enough who wanted to play there anyway).
This is probably the biggest difference between filk and that then.
There ARE a large number of really talented musical performers. But
it's rare that there's someone who's not "good enough" because we're
a fairly inclusive group. Heck, by those lights, I'm not "good enough"
I'm an adequate guitarist, so long as you want rhythm, and I can sing
reasonably, but not great. I'm not going to be gigging at any time
in the near future.
>However, much of the music performed is more in the "amateur group
>performance" or "singer-songwriter" categories than "filk". On the
>gripping hand, it seems to me that "filk" has been moving in those
>directions itself over the years. The most traditional Minicon music
For values of "the years" that include the past 2 decades, I'd say.
>activity is the big music circle, where people contribute to other
>people's performances -- jamming, if you like. We've certainly had
Standard filk circle, but the concept of people not being allowed or
encouraged to join in grates on me.
--
73 de Dave Weingart KA2ESK Sixteen Tones (16th UK Filkcon)
mailto:phyd...@liii.com Feb 6-9,2004, Bromsgrove, England
http://www.weingart.net/ GoH: Chris Conway, Bill Roper
ICQ 57055207 http://www.weyrd.org/16tonesindex.htm
David Dyer-Bennet
> One day in Teletubbyland, David Dyer-Bennet <dd...@dd-b.net> said:
> >seen three rooms of music *all* achieve dawn in a good year, back in
> >the big days. One of the big problems was the number of *good*
> >performers wanting to be in the "big" circle. (Another problem was
> >the people who weren't good enough who wanted to play there anyway).
>
> This is probably the biggest difference between filk and that then.
> There ARE a large number of really talented musical performers. But
> it's rare that there's someone who's not "good enough" because we're
> a fairly inclusive group. Heck, by those lights, I'm not "good enough"
> I'm an adequate guitarist, so long as you want rhythm, and I can sing
> reasonably, but not great. I'm not going to be gigging at any time
> in the near future.
I'm amazed that you can tell from the very little I've said how good
you have to be to fit into the circle! In fact, the issue is more
with how good a *performer* you are than how good a *musician*. Can
you finish your songs once you start singing them? Can you be heard
across the room? Does your choice of song often either fit with the
flow of mood, or bounce off it interestingly? Or not? (And this is
very much *my opinion* of what matters mostly; there were never any
official rules or anything.)
> >However, much of the music performed is more in the "amateur group
> >performance" or "singer-songwriter" categories than "filk". On the
> >gripping hand, it seems to me that "filk" has been moving in those
> >directions itself over the years. The most traditional Minicon music
>
> For values of "the years" that include the past 2 decades, I'd say.
>
> >activity is the big music circle, where people contribute to other
> >people's performances -- jamming, if you like. We've certainly had
>
> Standard filk circle, but the concept of people not being allowed or
> encouraged to join in grates on me.
But I didn't say people weren't allowed, at least, to join in. I said
it was a problem that people who weren't good enough *did* join in.
If we'd been preventing it, it wouldn't have been a problem.
(And in fact it drove most of the better musicians to getting together
at parties in private rooms where they *could* control who joined the
circle.)
A circle that takes two hours to go around is, in and of itself, a
problem.
At the last few Minicons, we've had official concerts by music guests,
and there's been various kinds of informal music in consuite space and
in function space. It's still pretty musical.
Marilee J. Layman
Weingart) wrote:
>Standard filk circle, but the concept of people not being allowed or
>encouraged to join in grates on me.
People who can't sing on key grate on me. I used to enjoy filk, then
people who were at best mediocre singers and lyric-writers started
putting out cassettes and CDs. It really changed the feel of the
circle.
--
Marilee J. Layman
Matthew燘. Tepper
letters to be typed in news:mkbfsvsotsmoo56lf...@4ax.com:
Now you have an idea of why I'm so upset about the so-called "major" record
companies issuing recordings of classical music performed by pop artists.
Keith F. Lynch
way to Minneapolis. See http://www.filker.org/conterpoint/
--
Keith F. Lynch - k...@keithlynch.net - http://keithlynch.net/
I always welcome replies to my e-mail, postings, and web pages, but
unsolicited bulk e-mail (spam) is not acceptable. Please do not send me
HTML, "rich text," or attachments, as all such email is discarded unread.
Keith F. Lynch
> I was going to say, "Be there. Aloha."
> --but then I realized that the phrase was Jack Lord's line at
> the end of the "scenes from next week's show." And while our
> correspondents of Aiglet's generation are no doubt perfectly
> familiar with "Book'im, Danno. Murder One." and Kam Fong as Chin
> Ho-- thanks to syndication, cable, and satellite dishes-- the
> "scenes from next week's show" would be a feature of the initial
> run of *Hawaii Five-O* on CBS, which ended in 1980.
I'm not sure whether that should make me feel young -- since I didn't
recognize that line, almost never having watched the show -- or old,
since I hadn't yet noticed that the show had been cancelled.
1980 was after I had stopped watching much TV, so shows from that era
are recent to me. When I see scenes from the show "Dallas," my first
thought is "Why is the astronaut Tony Nelson wearing that silly hat?
Oh yeah, he's in that new show."
I hadn't realized that "Dallas" had become nostalgia until it was
mentioned in a Simpsons flashback of Homer's good old days. (The
Simpsons is one of just two TV shows I regularly watch.)
Keith F. Lynch
> Only then did it occur to me that I've had it unplugged longer than
> the usual lifetime of a refrigerator.
Bill Higgins <hig...@fnal.gov> wrote:
> Do you keep books in it? I would, under the circumstances.
No. I pride myself on keeping all my books in plain sight. None are
boxed away, or shelved behind other books. (There are some shelves
with books on both sides, but only where there's access to both sides.)
This means that the average ray of light in my apartment will hit at
least one book. If my books all had white spines, I could reduce the
wattage of my light fixtures. I really ought to calculate how much
more a book with a white spine is worth to me, all else being equal.
Less than a penny, I'm sure. But how much less than a penny?
> Which ones? I have a few books about Arctic and Antarctic
> exploration. Not many about cryogenics ...
Interesting test of my filing system. Ok, I count four books
specifically about the arctic, and five specifically about the
antarctic. None specifically about cryogenics. Two on cryonics,
one on the man found in the ice in the Alps, one on thermodynamics,
and one on refrigerator repair.
(I believe there've only *been* two non-fiction books exclusively
about cryonics. Can anyone think of a third?)
> Maybe the astronomy books dealing with comets, or gas giants.
I have one book specifically about comets, but none specifically
about gas giants. I have several chemistry books, but none
exclusively about freon.
> Definitely Hal Clement's *Iceworld*.
I have that. It's shelved with my ten other Hal Clement paperbacks,
which are with all my other mass market fiction paperbacks. Including
Sheffield's _Cold as Ice_. (Which is *not* his novel about cryonics.
That's titled _Tomorrow and Tomorrow_.) Not to mention Forward's
_Camelot 30K_ or _Ocean Under the Ice_, or (reaching) Stephenson's
_Snow Crash_, Heinlein's _Door into Summer_ (a good description of a
refrigerator door, as seen from inside), or Robinson's _years ofr ICE
and salt". (Sorry.)
My two Hal Clement hardbacks are shelved on the opposite wall, with
my other fiction hardbacks (and trade paperbacks).
How about _The Case of the Frozen Addicts_?
James J. Walton
On 28 Nov 2003, Keith F. Lynch wrote:
> I hadn't realized that "Dallas" had become nostalgia until it was
> mentioned in a Simpsons flashback of Homer's good old days. (The
> Simpsons is one of just two TV shows I regularly watch.)
I don't know if it is good or bad when Keith Lynch watches more television
than I do.
Keith F. Lynch
> No, no, you're all 25. It's just that you've been stuck in
> premature aging boxes.
Closer to 15, in my case. One thing I was always taught when I was
young is that I was young, with my whole life ahead of me. The lesson
stuck with me.
Sure, I've always known that someday years would begin with 2, and
what my age would be then. I often could have even told you exactly
how many days away the year 2000 was.
I just wasn't expecting it to get here so soon. Thinking of 2001
being in the past, or of my being the age that the calendar and mirror
claim I am, is like trying to imagine Canada being south of me instead
of north of me. It's just weird.
At least Canada is likely to stay put. I'm reminded of the section
of Gerrold's _The Man Who Folded Himself_ where the protagonist keep
doubling back to the same month, for decades, so it seems the most
natural thing in the world that the building next door is under
construction, as it always has been and always will be. (Anyhow,
whenever he wants, he is free to visit the building site before
construction began, or after it was finished. Or after the resulting
building was torn down and replaced with something else.)
When I was a kid I wanted a computer, a spaceship, and a time machine.
I was told my wishes were wildly unrealistic.
I'm still waiting for my spaceship and time machine.
Keith F. Lynch
> I don't necessarily go to panels because I think they'll be
> informative, I go to panels because they'll have interesting people
> talking about intersting topics.
I might as well be reading it in a book, unless I'm part of the
conversation.
At some cons there are "kaffeeclatches," where no more than perhaps
ten people can sign up to sit around a table and chat with an author
for an hour. Those work well, if you can manage to be one of the ten.
>> Some clubs have so much money that they've purchased clubhouses.
>> Baltimore, Boston, and Los Angeles have done so.
> That must be nice... I remember when my college club got their very
> own room -- it was an enormous relief to have somewhere to store the
> books and watch movies without having to reserve a room or get stuff
> out of people's dorm rooms.
WSFA used to have a lot of stuff. It was stored in a storage locker.
Later, at the BSFS (the Baltimore group) clubhouse. Finally, we just
gave most of it to BSFS, with the understanding that we could use it
when they don't need it. We used some of it (pipe and pegboard) for
the World Fantasy Con art show last month. We haven't used the soft
drink machine in years. BSFS still uses it at every Balticon.
> I've generally selected my friends on the basis of whether or not I
> could talk to them,
Me too. I remember being criticized for being friends with a neighbor
who was one year older than me, rather than with his brother who was
exactly my age. Sigh.
> but at the same time, there is a lot of prejudice on both sides of
> the fannish generation gap,
I'm not convinced of this. There is some prejudice against non-
readers, of any age. Especially those who praise movies and TV
shows for ideas that were in fact developed much better in written
SF decades ago.
Some fans are prejudiced against people who aren't into fanzines.
TAFF and DUFF, for instance, are pretty much exclusively for fanzine
types.
And some used to be prejudiced against goths, or at least some goths
thought they were.
One famous author spoke of how everyone looked down on her when she
was "just another goth" hanging around Disclave. I told her I didn't
notice anyone looking down on goths at any Disclave.
> ... not all older fen are insular fuddy-duddies who'll look down on
> anyone who hasn't read things that have been out of print longer
> than we've been alive.
Did you notice the used paperbacks for sale at Capclave? There
are also frequent used books sales in the area. Plus, most WSFAns
(including me) are willing to loan books.
> The thing is, if the information isn't interesting, what's its value?
It may be interesting enough to read, but not to listen to. (Reading
being faster.) Or it may be interesting to some people, but not
others. Or it may be interesting in some contexts, and not others,
like entries in a dictionary or phone book.
I'm not just putting the old WSFA Journals online, but I'm indexing
them. So if you want to read any reviews of books by John Shirley in
a WSFA Journal, you can quickly find them. Or if you want to know
when meetings started being held in their current locations, or where
they were previously, or when a certain person started attending them,
or stopped attending them.
Or if you want to know how quickly WSFA's treasury is dropping (or
growing), and whether it's ever been this low (or high) before, and if
so, what we did about it. Or in what hotels Disclave has been held,
in case we might want to return to one of those hotels. Or perhaps
*avoid* returning.
Quantity has a quality all its own. *Someone* is reading them. 77
issues have each received over a thousand hits. One, more than ten
thousand.
> There are a lot of things about the history of fandom that *are*
> interesting, but I think that they've been discussed so many times
> by the people who know them that they're not always willing to
> discuss them with people who weren't there and don't know the people
> (since telling any given story requires explaining the in-jokes and
> the backstory).
Another advantage of writing. If you want to read a piece of history
at 3 am, no problem. But if you were to phone someone at that hour
and ask them to tell it to you, you might get a chilly reception.
> There's a value to forgetting things -- it eases the pain of some
> occurrences,
I've thought about this a lot, and I don't agree. An enjoyable
experience is still enjoyable even if you promptly forget it. An
unpleasant experience is still unpleasant even if you promptly forget
it. Forgetting makes you less likely to to be able to seek pleasant
experiences and avoid unpleasant ones.
There are paralytic drugs, and there are amnesic drugs. But few
people would just as soon that a combination of the two be used during
surgery instead of a general anesthetic. Just because you can't
complain during severe pain, and don't remember it afterward, doesn't
mean it didn't happen.
I would rather I hadn't gone to prison. But given that I did, I
prefer to remember every minute of it.
> and allows people to judge the relative importance of things (by
> whether or not they remember them). Trivia is all well and good,
> but can be written down and looked up.
Memories could be indexed in much the same way. So that remembering
some trivium *feels* like looking it up in a book, only a thousand
times faster.
Is there any essential difference between knowing something and
looking it up, other than the speed? And other than the network of
cross-references that knowing it produces in your mind? That network
could be reproduced on paper.
> I'm not sure I'd want to have crystal-clear memories of everything
> that's happened in my own life, much less over the course of the
> rest of my life, or over an extended life.
I haven't always been sure I would, but having carefully thought about
the pros and cons, I've gradually become convinced that I would. And
that, if I were given the power to edit my memories, I would never
use it.
> The fannish history panel.
I wasn't there. I was across the hall, chatting with your boyfriend
and Nancy.
> I figure you're probably in your early to mid 40's -- but remember,
> everyone I know is 25 in my head, just like me.
I'm more like 15 in my head. I don't tend to notice other people's
age unless my attention is called to it.
I was chatting with a woman at Balticon last year, when I became aware
that she hadn't heard of the Challenger explosion. It turned out that
she hadn't been born yet when that happened!
Maybe I'd feel older if I had serious medical problems. But I
continue to be in excellent health and I'm also very fit. I can run
up to my room on the 20th floor of a con hotel to get something, and
run back down to the lobby quickly enough that the same people are
probably *still* waiting for an elevator. Stairs are like level
ground to me. I can also skip a night's sleep with no ill effects.
Nor do I ever get a cold at a con (or anywhere else), not even when
I eat food that I find on the floor. Nor did I get sick when working
in hospitals a few years ago. Or when I walked the length of Gitmo
with no water on a day so hot that the Marines cancelled their march.
Or when I get cuts or scrapes and don't bother to bandage them. Or
when I got extensive dental work and refused antibiotics.
It's curious that you think of yourself as 25, since you're not
actually that old yet. When did you start thinking of yourself as
that age?
Marilee J. Layman
wrote:
>phyd...@liii.com (Dave Weingart) writes:
>
>> One day in Teletubbyland, Kip Williams <ki...@cox.net> said:
>> >The payoff is incredible. One of the best cons I've attended, as far
>> >as how many people I like can be found in each square foot of space.
>>
>> But is there good filk? (Seriously, that IS one of the things I go to
>> a con for.)
>
>The history of music and Minicon (which is the con Kip was talking
>about, despite the subject line up there) is interesting. Minicon has
>been very musically oriented since I first got involved. For many
>years we regularly had a "musician guest of honor". For years the
>music in one room of the con-suite was the highlight of the convention
>for a lot of people. Some years we had multiple rooms of the
>con-suite doing music plus one or two privately-hosted parties. I've
>seen three rooms of music *all* achieve dawn in a good year, back in
>the big days. One of the big problems was the number of *good*
>performers wanting to be in the "big" circle. (Another problem was
>the people who weren't good enough who wanted to play there anyway).
>
>However, much of the music performed is more in the "amateur group
>performance" or "singer-songwriter" categories than "filk". On the
>gripping hand, it seems to me that "filk" has been moving in those
>directions itself over the years. The most traditional Minicon music
>activity is the big music circle, where people contribute to other
>people's performances -- jamming, if you like. We've certainly had
>concert performances (especially when we've had specific music guests)
>and such *too*.
>
>Things have been complicated by a few visible people who dislike the
>*term* filk, and dislike some of the styles of filk, pretty strongly.
>
>Things have been changing (I've been going to Minicon since 1973, I
>believe) over the years. In recent years we've had several people
>prominent in the Filk world as music guests, and they seem to me to
>have been very well received.
>
>I think of Minicon as still being a rather musical convention, but
>whether it does it differently from the way you're used to in a way
>that would upset you, I have no idea.
And there usually *is* a filk circle as well as music parties. I
don't think of them as one lesser than the other, but as different
styles.
--
Marilee J. Layman
Bill Higgins
> "Bill Higgins" <hig...@fnal.gov> wrote in message news:Pine.SGI.4.58.031...@fsgi01.fnal.gov...
> > Therefore the phrase "Be there. Aloha." might never have been heard
> > in the land during the lifetime of some of our friends, who grew up in the
> > era when Previous Leon came to prominence.
>
> I saw Hawaii Five-0 before 1980, but they never ran scenes from
> next weeks show in this market that I can remember, so the phrase
> is new to me.
I can only ask you to imagine how the line was delivered; not far
off from "Book'im, Danno," but a trifle less grim.
"Be there. Aloha." turns out to be a fairly handy catchphrase.
--
Bill Higgins | Moshe Yudkowsky has seen *Return of the King*:
Fermilab | "It follows the book almost exactly:
| The first hour wraps up the story of the ring.
Internet: | The next two hours has
| Peter Jackson in front of a whiteboard,
hig...@fnal.gov | explaining how to pronounce elvish runes."
Bill Higgins
Bad.
As a 293-article thread reminds us, Keith Lynch Was Right. So you should
probably watch at least as much television as Keith does.
(And I should throttle back, since I watch much more than Keith does.)
--
Bill Higgins | "Now I'm waiting nervously but eagerly for the sequel
Fermilab |to *A Fire upon the Deep*, which should be out by 2040,
| even if Vinge has to duplicate his consciousness
| through a dozen super-computers
Internet: | and collaborate with himself to do it."
hig...@fnal.gov | --Daniel Speyer (dsp...@wam.umd.edu)
Nancy Lebovitz
How does whether mediocre or worse musicians produce tapes and CDs affect
whether you enjoy live performances?
--
Nancy Lebovitz na...@netaxs.com www.nancybuttons.com
Now, with bumper stickers
Using your turn signal is not "giving information to the enemy"
Nancy Lebovitz
Keith F. Lynch <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
>
>being in the past, or of my being the age that the calendar and mirror
>claim I am, is like trying to imagine Canada being south of me instead
>of north of me. It's just weird.
And I wasn't expecting to outlive the Berlin Wall, the Soviet Union,
or the World Trade Center.
>
>When I was a kid I wanted a computer, a spaceship, and a time machine.
>I was told my wishes were wildly unrealistic.
>
>I'm still waiting for my spaceship and time machine.
May I use that as a button slogan?
Nancy Lebovitz
Keith F. Lynch <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
>
>And some used to be prejudiced against goths, or at least some goths
>thought they were.
>
>One famous author spoke of how everyone looked down on her when she
>was "just another goth" hanging around Disclave. I told her I didn't
>notice anyone looking down on goths at any Disclave.
Would you notice it?
If buttons sales are any indication, there's a really strong impulse
in fandom to tease the goths. I'm not sure why.
>
>> ... not all older fen are insular fuddy-duddies who'll look down on
>> anyone who hasn't read things that have been out of print longer
>> than we've been alive.
>
>Did you notice the used paperbacks for sale at Capclave? There
>are also frequent used books sales in the area. Plus, most WSFAns
>(including me) are willing to loan books.
Also note that a moderate amount is coming back into print.
>
(.....)
>I'm not just putting the old WSFA Journals online, but I'm indexing
>them. So if you want to read any reviews of books by John Shirley in
>a WSFA Journal, you can quickly find them. Or if you want to know
>when meetings started being held in their current locations, or where
>they were previously, or when a certain person started attending them,
>or stopped attending them.
>
>Or if you want to know how quickly WSFA's treasury is dropping (or
>growing), and whether it's ever been this low (or high) before, and if
>so, what we did about it. Or in what hotels Disclave has been held,
>in case we might want to return to one of those hotels. Or perhaps
>*avoid* returning.
>
>Quantity has a quality all its own. *Someone* is reading them. 77
Agreed.
>issues have each received over a thousand hits. One, more than ten
>thousand.
>
>> There are a lot of things about the history of fandom that *are*
>> interesting, but I think that they've been discussed so many times
>> by the people who know them that they're not always willing to
>> discuss them with people who weren't there and don't know the people
>> (since telling any given story requires explaining the in-jokes and
>> the backstory).
>
>Another advantage of writing. If you want to read a piece of history
>at 3 am, no problem. But if you were to phone someone at that hour
>and ask them to tell it to you, you might get a chilly reception.
Are there any wsfa discussion forums online?
>
>> There's a value to forgetting things -- it eases the pain of some
>> occurrences,
>
>I've thought about this a lot, and I don't agree. An enjoyable
>experience is still enjoyable even if you promptly forget it. An
>unpleasant experience is still unpleasant even if you promptly forget
>it. Forgetting makes you less likely to to be able to seek pleasant
>experiences and avoid unpleasant ones.
>
>There are paralytic drugs, and there are amnesic drugs. But few
>people would just as soon that a combination of the two be used during
>surgery instead of a general anesthetic. Just because you can't
>complain during severe pain, and don't remember it afterward, doesn't
>mean it didn't happen.
Also, I'm inclined to think that if forgetting pain is like making it
not have happened, then once people are dead, it doesn't matter if they've
been hurt. If that were believed, then the social consequences would be
unfortunate.
>> and allows people to judge the relative importance of things (by
>> whether or not they remember them). Trivia is all well and good,
>> but can be written down and looked up.
>
>Memories could be indexed in much the same way. So that remembering
>some trivium *feels* like looking it up in a book, only a thousand
>times faster.
>
>Is there any essential difference between knowing something and
>looking it up, other than the speed? And other than the network of
>cross-references that knowing it produces in your mind? That network
>could be reproduced on paper.
Are you including non-verbal memories?
>> I'm not sure I'd want to have crystal-clear memories of everything
>> that's happened in my own life, much less over the course of the
>> rest of my life, or over an extended life.
>
>I haven't always been sure I would, but having carefully thought about
>the pros and cons, I've gradually become convinced that I would. And
>that, if I were given the power to edit my memories, I would never
>use it.
If I had crystal-clear memories, I think my personality would be rather
different as a result. Frex, I suspect that my fondness for general
principles has something to do with my awareness that I'd better get
any detail which crosses my path into a framework, or it'll get completely
lost.
>
>> I figure you're probably in your early to mid 40's -- but remember,
>> everyone I know is 25 in my head, just like me.
I suspect that I was born to be 35. I was rather sedate when I was younger,
felt most comfortable around that age, and am now (at 50--I'm hoping to
get over being surprised at my age) being a lot more reliable about T'ai
Chi because feeling old is intolerable. (I've been trying to figure out
what the difference is between feeling old and feeling like a young person
with some stiff muscles is.)
James Nicoll
Nancy Lebovitz <na...@unix5.netaxs.com> wrote:
>In article <bq9a7j$nbj$1...@panix2.panix.com>,
>Keith F. Lynch <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
>>Kate Secor <aig...@nospam.verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>>And some used to be prejudiced against goths, or at least some goths
>>thought they were.
>>
>>One famous author spoke of how everyone looked down on her when she
>>was "just another goth" hanging around Disclave. I told her I didn't
>>notice anyone looking down on goths at any Disclave.
>
>Would you notice it?
>
>If buttons sales are any indication, there's a really strong impulse
>in fandom to tease the goths. I'm not sure why.
"*GOTHS*. Pshaw. Those women there, for example. They're just so...so...so...
*dark* and *sullen* and *angst-filled* and...and..."
"Gorgeous?"
"It's *so* unfair."
[Dork Tower 2]
--
It's amazing how the waterdrops form: a ball of water with an air bubble
inside it and inside of that one more bubble of water. It looks so beautiful
[...]. I realized something: the world is interesting for the man who can
be surprised. -Valentin Lebedev-
Kate Secor
na...@unix5.netaxs.com (Nancy Lebovitz) wrote:
> In article <bq9a7j$nbj$1...@panix2.panix.com>,
> Keith F. Lynch <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
> >Kate Secor <aig...@nospam.verizon.net> wrote:
> >
> >And some used to be prejudiced against goths, or at least some goths
> >thought they were.
> >
> >One famous author spoke of how everyone looked down on her when she
> >was "just another goth" hanging around Disclave. I told her I didn't
> >notice anyone looking down on goths at any Disclave.
>
> Would you notice it?
>
> If buttons sales are any indication, there's a really strong impulse
> in fandom to tease the goths. I'm not sure why.
Because they take themselves so *seriously* when they're out in public.
I mean, not that I don't go clubbing, but when I'm wearing stretch
velvet, boots, and three tons of eye makeup, I don't expect anyone to
actually try to have intelligent conversations with me (it happens, but
still).
For what it's worth, the goth culture teases itself much worse than the
fen do, it's just that all the ones with senses of humor don't go goth
at cons.
> >> ... not all older fen are insular fuddy-duddies who'll look down on
> >> anyone who hasn't read things that have been out of print longer
> >> than we've been alive.
> >
> >Did you notice the used paperbacks for sale at Capclave? There
> >are also frequent used books sales in the area. Plus, most WSFAns
> >(including me) are willing to loan books.
>
> Also note that a moderate amount is coming back into print.
Yes, but then I have to figure out what to read, and that has to compete
with all the new stuff I want to read... I tend not to buy books from
people I've never heard of, and books from NESFA are an expensive
experiment.
> >> I figure you're probably in your early to mid 40's -- but remember,
> >> everyone I know is 25 in my head, just like me.
>
> I suspect that I was born to be 35. I was rather sedate when I was younger,
> felt most comfortable around that age, and am now (at 50--I'm hoping to
> get over being surprised at my age) being a lot more reliable about T'ai
> Chi because feeling old is intolerable. (I've been trying to figure out
> what the difference is between feeling old and feeling like a young person
> with some stiff muscles is.)
It appears to be in your head. You're one of the few people around here
who does register as "older than me," although not by much. I think
it's that you tend to be less... excitable(?) ... than I tend to think
of (at least) myself as being.
Aiglet
Matthew燘. Tepper
following letters to be typed in news:Wn%yb.33$_X4.33022
@newshog.newsread.com:
> In article <bq93gf$p9u$1...@panix2.panix.com>,
> Keith F. Lynch <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
>>
>>I just wasn't expecting it to get here so soon. Thinking of 2001
>>being in the past, or of my being the age that the calendar and mirror
>>claim I am, is like trying to imagine Canada being south of me instead
>>of north of me. It's just weird.
>
> And I wasn't expecting to outlive the Berlin Wall, the Soviet Union,
> or the World Trade Center.
>>
>>When I was a kid I wanted a computer, a spaceship, and a time machine.
>>I was told my wishes were wildly unrealistic.
>>
>>I'm still waiting for my spaceship and time machine.
>
> May I use that as a button slogan?
I'm still waiting for the personal helicopter we were told, in the 1950s,
that we would "soon" have.
Dave Weingart
>I'm amazed that you can tell from the very little I've said how good
>you have to be to fit into the circle! In fact, the issue is more
>with how good a *performer* you are than how good a *musician*. Can
>you finish your songs once you start singing them? Can you be heard
>across the room? Does your choice of song often either fit with the
>flow of mood, or bounce off it interestingly? Or not? (And this is
That's just it. In filk, you don't have to be "good enough" to
fit into the circle. The circle is for everyone who wants to
be there.
>> Standard filk circle, but the concept of people not being allowed or
>> encouraged to join in grates on me.
>
>But I didn't say people weren't allowed, at least, to join in. I said
>it was a problem that people who weren't good enough *did* join in.
>If we'd been preventing it, it wouldn't have been a problem.
If someone's not "good enough" and joins in, well, then they join in and
it's not a problem in most filk circles. You don't have the better
performers going of so that they won't have to put up with the rest of us.
>A circle that takes two hours to go around is, in and of itself, a
>problem.
Yes. But that's not relevant to who's in it.
Dave Weingart
>I mean, not that I don't go clubbing, but when I'm wearing stretch
>velvet, boots, and three tons of eye makeup, I don't expect anyone to
Wait a moment. You've worn stretch velvet and I've *missed* it???
Nancy Lebovitz
Kate Secor <aig...@nospam.verizon.net> wrote:
>In article <wA%yb.36$_X4.3...@newshog.newsread.com>,
> na...@unix5.netaxs.com (Nancy Lebovitz) wrote:
>
>> In article <bq9a7j$nbj$1...@panix2.panix.com>,
>> Keith F. Lynch <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
>> >Kate Secor <aig...@nospam.verizon.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >And some used to be prejudiced against goths, or at least some goths
>> >thought they were.
>> >
>> >One famous author spoke of how everyone looked down on her when she
>> >was "just another goth" hanging around Disclave. I told her I didn't
>> >notice anyone looking down on goths at any Disclave.
>>
>> Would you notice it?
>>
>> If buttons sales are any indication, there's a really strong impulse
>> in fandom to tease the goths. I'm not sure why.
>
>Because they take themselves so *seriously* when they're out in public.
If they don't fit somewhow, it's they're fault if they get teased. I see.
They expect to be spoken to as though they human beings even though they're
wearing funny clothes. How unfannish.
>I mean, not that I don't go clubbing, but when I'm wearing stretch
>velvet, boots, and three tons of eye makeup, I don't expect anyone to
>actually try to have intelligent conversations with me (it happens, but
>still).
>
>For what it's worth, the goth culture teases itself much worse than the
>fen do, it's just that all the ones with senses of humor don't go goth
>at cons.
Or it may be either that the jokes are different (I bet goths don't get
big yucks out of "if you're a Goth, where were you when we sacked Rome?"
--it sounds like humor from someone outside the culture to me), or that
it's different when the humor isn't coming from your own kind.
Any good online sources for goth humor?
>> >> ... not all older fen are insular fuddy-duddies who'll look down on
>> >> anyone who hasn't read things that have been out of print longer
>> >> than we've been alive.
>> >
>> >Did you notice the used paperbacks for sale at Capclave? There
>> >are also frequent used books sales in the area. Plus, most WSFAns
>> >(including me) are willing to loan books.
>>
>> Also note that a moderate amount is coming back into print.
>
>Yes, but then I have to figure out what to read, and that has to compete
>with all the new stuff I want to read... I tend not to buy books from
>people I've never heard of, and books from NESFA are an expensive
>experiment.
True. Meisha Merlin and Wildside do a fair amount of reprinting, but they
don't always have their books on display. On the other hand, those books
are at pretty normal trade paperback prices.
I bet the good folks at the NESFA table would let you browse their books
and/or talk with you about them.
At some times, their books are plain expensive for me, even if I know
I want them--experiment doesn't come into it. I don't usually pay full
price for hardcovers, new or old, but there aren't a lot of used NESFA
books around.
>> >> I figure you're probably in your early to mid 40's -- but remember,
>> >> everyone I know is 25 in my head, just like me.
>>
>> I suspect that I was born to be 35. I was rather sedate when I was younger,
>> felt most comfortable around that age, and am now (at 50--I'm hoping to
>> get over being surprised at my age) being a lot more reliable about T'ai
>> Chi because feeling old is intolerable. (I've been trying to figure out
>> what the difference is between feeling old and feeling like a young person
>> with some stiff muscles is.)
>
>It appears to be in your head. You're one of the few people around here
>who does register as "older than me," although not by much. I think
>it's that you tend to be less... excitable(?) ... than I tend to think
>of (at least) myself as being.
We seem to have a failure to communicate. Feeling old vs. feeling like
a young person with some stiff muscles can happen to me a few days apart
if I've been neglecting T'ai Chi and then get back to it.
I'll grant some loss of excitability, and the process is still going on.
Just recently, I thought yahoo had asked me to change my password *again*
and I wasn't reduced to a loud, cursing rage. Enlightenment? Depression?
Despair?
Ken Walton
> I'm still waiting for the personal helicopter we were told, in the 1950s,
> that we would "soon" have.
>
Have you tried calling the warehouse? They probably tried to deliver
when you were out.
--
Ken Walton
David Dyer-Bennet
> In article <bq9a7j$nbj$1...@panix2.panix.com>,
> Keith F. Lynch <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
> >Kate Secor <aig...@nospam.verizon.net> wrote:
> >
> >And some used to be prejudiced against goths, or at least some goths
> >thought they were.
> >
> >One famous author spoke of how everyone looked down on her when she
> >was "just another goth" hanging around Disclave. I told her I didn't
> >notice anyone looking down on goths at any Disclave.
>
> Would you notice it?
>
> If buttons sales are any indication, there's a really strong impulse
> in fandom to tease the goths. I'm not sure why.
Because they're so earnest. And so self-absorbed.
David Dyer-Bennet
> One day in Teletubbyland, David Dyer-Bennet <dd...@dd-b.net> said:
> >I'm amazed that you can tell from the very little I've said how good
> >you have to be to fit into the circle! In fact, the issue is more
> >with how good a *performer* you are than how good a *musician*. Can
> >you finish your songs once you start singing them? Can you be heard
> >across the room? Does your choice of song often either fit with the
> >flow of mood, or bounce off it interestingly? Or not? (And this is
>
> That's just it. In filk, you don't have to be "good enough" to
> fit into the circle. The circle is for everyone who wants to
> be there.
Yeah, that's one model of filk, and it's the model I don't like.
> >> Standard filk circle, but the concept of people not being allowed or
> >> encouraged to join in grates on me.
> >
> >But I didn't say people weren't allowed, at least, to join in. I said
> >it was a problem that people who weren't good enough *did* join in.
> >If we'd been preventing it, it wouldn't have been a problem.
>
> If someone's not "good enough" and joins in, well, then they join in and
> it's not a problem in most filk circles. You don't have the better
> performers going of so that they won't have to put up with the rest of us.
>
> >A circle that takes two hours to go around is, in and of itself, a
> >problem.
>
> Yes. But that's not relevant to who's in it.
Why do you think that? It was certainly very relevant here --
everybody wanted to be in the circle with the good performers, and
finally drove them off to a private party where they could control
things.
Matthew B. Tepper
letters to be typed in news:3fccc...@news.arcor-ip.de:
Maybe they tried sending me a letter via pneumatic tube.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Russell Watson is to opera as VelveetaT is to aged cheddar cheese
Kevin J. Maroney
Lebovitz) wrote:
>True. Meisha Merlin and Wildside do a fair amount of reprinting, but they
>don't always have their books on display. On the other hand, those books
>are at pretty normal trade paperback prices.
Isn't Wildside pure print-on-demand? If so, one wouldn't expect to see
display copies.
>I bet the good folks at the NESFA table would let you browse their books
>and/or talk with you about them.
Many libraries stock them, and they're in a lot of bookstores which
encourage browsing.
--
Kevin J. Maroney | k...@panix.com
Games are my entire waking life.
Dave Weingart
>> That's just it. In filk, you don't have to be "good enough" to
>> fit into the circle. The circle is for everyone who wants to
>> be there.
>
>Yeah, that's one model of filk, and it's the model I don't like.
Which perhaps explains why you're not a filker?
Yeah, there are music snobs in filk. They don't last because it's a
participatory culture. It's a community; in many cases, it's a
family.
>> >A circle that takes two hours to go around is, in and of itself, a
>> >problem.
>>
>> Yes. But that's not relevant to who's in it.
>
>Why do you think that? It was certainly very relevant here --
>everybody wanted to be in the circle with the good performers, and
>finally drove them off to a private party where they could control
>things.
And if you have a circle with 2 hours worth of good performers? Well,
some of them will go off and form their own circle, and some people will
go with them. Or people will move from circle to circle as the fancy
takes them.
Joel Rosenberg
> One day in Teletubbyland, David Dyer-Bennet <dd...@dd-b.net> said:
>>> That's just it. In filk, you don't have to be "good enough" to
>>> fit into the circle. The circle is for everyone who wants to
>>> be there.
>>
>>Yeah, that's one model of filk, and it's the model I don't like.
>
> Which perhaps explains why you're not a filker?
I think it probably has a lot more to do with David not being a
musician.
>
> Yeah, there are music snobs in filk. They don't last because it's a
> participatory culture. It's a community; in many cases, it's a
> family.
Well, the folks who perhaps could be characterized as "music snobs"
hereabouts are still around, and making music at local-to-here
conventions. Some of them -- most of them -- wouldn't, I think,
characterize themselves as filkers, though.
It's a problem. What should one do if one finds the music of some
participants in a music circle to be painful to listen to? Obviously,
among the unacceptable things is being rude to them; but what are the
reasonable choices? Give up being in music circles? (That's largely
what I've done. Not a big deal; playing in front of people hasn't
been particularly important to me for closer a quarter of a century
than I care to think about, and even if it was, there are obviously
other venues.)
Here, what seems to have happened is that two sorts of circles seem to
have sprung up -- the "music snob" one, and the open-to-all one.
Seems to have worked.
>
>>> >A circle that takes two hours to go around is, in and of itself, a
>>> >problem.
>>>
>>> Yes. But that's not relevant to who's in it.
>>
>>Why do you think that? It was certainly very relevant here --
>>everybody wanted to be in the circle with the good performers, and
>>finally drove them off to a private party where they could control
>>things.
>
> And if you have a circle with 2 hours worth of good performers? Well,
> some of them will go off and form their own circle, and some people will
> go with them. Or people will move from circle to circle as the fancy
> takes them.
Or, alternately, they'll stay. Not a problem, either way.
--
------------------------------------------------------------
Joel Rosenberg
http://www.ellegon.com/homepage.phtml
(Reverse disclaimer: actually, everything I do or say is utterly
supported by Ellegon, Inc., my employer. Even when I'm wrong.)
Nancy Lebovitz
Kevin J. Maroney <k...@panix.com> wrote:
>On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 16:33:05 GMT, na...@unix5.netaxs.com (Nancy
>Lebovitz) wrote:
>>True. Meisha Merlin and Wildside do a fair amount of reprinting, but they
>>don't always have their books on display. On the other hand, those books
>>are at pretty normal trade paperback prices.
>
>Isn't Wildside pure print-on-demand? If so, one wouldn't expect to see
>display copies.
I've seen display copies. I don't know what proportion of their business
is print-on-demand.
Bernard Peek
<phyd...@liii.com> writes
>One day in Teletubbyland, David Dyer-Bennet <dd...@dd-b.net> said:
>>> That's just it. In filk, you don't have to be "good enough" to
>>> fit into the circle. The circle is for everyone who wants to
>>> be there.
>>
>>Yeah, that's one model of filk, and it's the model I don't like.
>
>Which perhaps explains why you're not a filker?
>
>Yeah, there are music snobs in filk. They don't last because it's a
>participatory culture. It's a community; in many cases, it's a
>family.
I've got some sympathy with both sides of this argument, and I've seen
it before. I'm a folkie, I've seen the same arguments going around at
folk clubs. Some clubs have a policy of selecting performers they
consider better, others have a policy of not selecting at all.
I've noticed that the selective clubs eventually run out of performers
and close. My club wasn't selective and it's been going for over 30
years. A month or two ago I listened to a BBC radio concert by the kid I
remember being pushed forward by his dad, to make his first public
performance.
But I don't usually listen to filking at cons because it's generally not
very entertaining. There are some very good performers, but some truly
godawful ones too. One of the leading lights of British lights of
British folk fandom is someone that is completely devoid of any trace of
talent as a singer, songwriter or musician. On the other hand when I
listened in at a Minicon "Snotty Elitist Music Party" it wasn't a lot
better.
--
Bernard Peek
b...@shrdlu.com
In search of cognoscenti
Marilee J. Layman
wrote:
>It's a problem. What should one do if one finds the music of some
>participants in a music circle to be painful to listen to? Obviously,
>among the unacceptable things is being rude to them; but what are the
>reasonable choices?
When this happens in the Minicon music parties, usually the pained
person will go look for liquor.
--
Marilee J. Layman
Marilee J. Layman
Lebovitz) wrote:
>In article <mkbfsvsotsmoo56lf...@4ax.com>,
>Marilee J. Layman <mjla...@erols.com> wrote:
>>On Fri, 28 Nov 2003 16:24:59 +0000 (UTC), phyd...@liii.com (Dave
>>Weingart) wrote:
>>
>>>Standard filk circle, but the concept of people not being allowed or
>>>encouraged to join in grates on me.
>>
>>People who can't sing on key grate on me. I used to enjoy filk, then
>>people who were at best mediocre singers and lyric-writers started
>>putting out cassettes and CDs. It really changed the feel of the
>>circle.
>
>How does whether mediocre or worse musicians produce tapes and CDs affect
>whether you enjoy live performances?
Because the circles will give preference to those musicians.
--
Marilee J. Layman
Keith F. Lynch
> Yes, but then I have to figure out what to read, and that has to
> compete with all the new stuff I want to read... I tend not to buy
> books from people I've never heard of, and books from NESFA are an
> expensive experiment.
Same here. That's the big advantage of used books sales. You can
often get a whole grocery bag full of paperbacks for five dollars.
> [Nancy is] one of the few people around here who does register as
> "older than me," although not by much. I think it's that you tend
> to be less... excitable(?) ... than I tend to think of (at least)
> myself as being.
She's been like that as long as I've known her. You
can see for yourself by reading her old postings via
http://google.com/advanced_group_search. Unfortunately,
they only go back to February 1992.
By your excitability standard I must register as one of the youngest
people online.
Keith F. Lynch
> When I was a kid I wanted a computer, a spaceship, and a time
> machine. I was told my wishes were wildly unrealistic.
> I'm still waiting for my spaceship and time machine.
na...@unix5.netaxs.com (Nancy Lebovitz) wrote:
> May I use that as a button slogan?
Sure, if I can get a free copy of it. See you at Philcon.
I figured I ought to start showing up at Philcon, since people keep
seeing me there. I haven't been to a Philcon (except MilPhil) since
the '80s.
Matthew燘. Tepper <oy兀earthlink.net> wrote:
> I'm still waiting for the personal helicopter we were told, in the
> 1950s, that we would "soon" have.
I'm glad that hasn't happened. Imagine how much noise, vibration,
and lousy radio and TV reception there'd be if there were as many
helicopters as there are cars. What a nightmare! Not to mention that
helicopter crashes tend to be even more deadly than car crashes, and
people can't protect themselves from them by staying away from roads.
The only quiet and safe place would be in a cave. And maybe not even
there, if the Mission Impossible movie can be believed.
Keith F. Lynch
> Are there any wsfa discussion forums online?
There's an email list, but it's only for members. The best place to
discuss WSFA online is right here.
> If I had crystal-clear memories, I think my personality would be
> rather different as a result. Frex, I suspect that my fondness for
> general principles has something to do with my awareness that I'd
> better get any detail which crosses my path into a framework, or
> it'll get completely lost.
I'm not sure whether my personality would be any different, but I
would probably have a more chaotic filing system at home. I (try to)
keep the place neat since otherwise I'll never be able to find anything.
Never moving or redecorating also helps.
> I suspect that I was born to be 35. I was rather sedate when I
> was younger, felt most comfortable around that age, and am now (at
> 50--I'm hoping to get over being surprised at my age) being a lot
> more reliable about T'ai Chi because feeling old is intolerable.
Being "rather sedate" is a bad thing?
> (I've been trying to figure out what the difference is between
> feeling old and feeling like a young person with some stiff
> muscles is.)
I don't know. Fortunately I never get stiff muscles, not even when
sleeping on the floor.
Keith F. Lynch
> And I wasn't expecting to outlive the Berlin Wall, the Soviet Union,
> or the World Trade Center.
I was. And I look forward to outliving the US government, and all
other governments.
Kristopher
>
> Nancy Lebovitz wrote:
>
>> And I wasn't expecting to outlive the Berlin Wall, the Soviet
>> Union, or the World Trade Center.
>
> I was. And I look forward to outliving the US government, and
> all other governments.
Non sequitor much?
--
Kristopher
The question is not "What," or "How," but rather "-Why-?"