Searchindexer -- for whose benefit?
Martha Adams
After my last Microsoft update of the XP I'm (still) using, I've
been noticing a new activity in the machine. This turns out to
be a program named 'searchindexer.exe' that I find near the
bottom of the Processes list (about 14.5 Mb). In today's world
(and reckoning back to who it comes from) what is that software
accomplishing in my machine? *For whose benefit*?
Titeotwawki -- mha [2010 Apr 28]
Michael Benveniste
See:
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/winfamily/desktopsearch/technicalresources/indexing.mspx
That assumes it's actually the Microsoft blessed bloatware and not
some malware disguising itself as as Microsoft bloatware.
--
Mike Benveniste -- m...@murkyether.com (Clarification Required)
Its name is Public opinion. It is held in reverence. It settles
everything. Some think it is the voice of God. -- Mark Twain
Dorothy J Heydt
Hal says, "It's indexing the files on your system so that --
theoretically -- you can search for things faster."
"So," I ask, "is it benign, malignant, or blah?"
"It's not actually malignant. Whether it does you any good is a
good question."
So he thinks you needn't worry about that one. But you are right
to be cautious about updates from M$ generally. I once
downloaded a bunch of such updates on this current computer
(admittedly, the thing is running Vista) and it completely honked
the system: I couldn't "log in" because the system didn't
"recognize my password." This, after Hal had carefully not set
up any passwords on it in the first place, since I'm the only one
who uses it. We wound up calling Hewlett-Packard and getting a
tech in Manila who, mirabile dictu, knew what he was doing and
enabled Hal to return the system to its previous state so it
would work again.
Of course, the real fix for this machine will be to buy Windows
7; but that will take time because it will take money.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Should you wish to email me, you'd better use the gmail edress.
Kithrup's all spammy and hotmail's been hacked.
Paul Ciszek
In article <L1LHK...@kithrup.com>,
Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
>
>Of course, the real fix for this machine will be to buy Windows
>7; but that will take time because it will take money.
Ubuntu doesn't cost money.
--
Please reply to: | "Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is
pciszek at panix dot com | indistinguishable from malice."
Autoreply is disabled |
Dorothy J Heydt
Paul Ciszek <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>In article <L1LHK...@kithrup.com>,
>Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
>>
>>Of course, the real fix for this machine will be to buy Windows
>>7; but that will take time because it will take money.
>
>Ubuntu doesn't cost money.
Oh, if Linux were a feasible alternative in this case, Hal has
Susi 9.2 which he could easily install.
But there is not (yet) a version of Lord of the Rings Online
which will run under Linux.
So I'm stuck till we can get W7.
Keith F. Lynch
> But there is not (yet) a version of Lord of the Rings Online which
> will run under Linux.
Is there one that will run on a Mac? If so, presumably it would also
run on NetBSD, which is better than Linux.
--
Keith F. Lynch - http://keithlynch.net/
Please see http://keithlynch.net/email.html before emailing me.
Dorothy J Heydt
Keith F. Lynch <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
>Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
>> But there is not (yet) a version of Lord of the Rings Online which
>> will run under Linux.
>
>Is there one that will run on a Mac?
No.
If so, presumably it would also
>run on NetBSD, which is better than Linux.
THAT's a matter of opinion, which since it isn't germane I don't
have to go into.
I have had very traumatic experiences with Macs, mostly based
around the fact that its developers assume that because they use
pictures instead of words, everything they do is intuitively
obvious. Not so.
The most painful example of the above was long long ago when the
Mac had *just* come out: the Computer Center I was working for
bought one to test it out, and I volunteered to try it. Neither
Hal nor I could figure out how to make it work. Hal finally
found out, by accident, that you had to *double-click* the mouse
button in order to activate an icon. Nowhere in the (admittedly,
non-final draft) manual did it say anything about double-clicking.
They thought it was obvious that that was what you did: why,
they'd been doing it for years!
Oh yes, and the egregious use of the mouse. I once phoned them
(Cupertino was a local call from where I was) and asked the tech
if there was any way of making hotkeys for *all* functions, so
that I would never have to use the mouse at all. He said,
honestly bewildered (I think), "Why would anyone want never to
have to use the mouse??"
(Because using the mouse requires removing my hand from the
keyboard, ya stupid git.)
Keith F. Lynch
> Keith F. Lynch <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
>> If so, presumably it would also run on NetBSD, which is better
>> than Linux.
> THAT's a matter of opinion, which since it isn't germane I don't
> have to go into.
> I have had very traumatic experiences with Macs, mostly based
> around the fact that its developers assume that because they use
> pictures instead of words, everything they do is intuitively
> obvious. Not so.
Indeed. Intuitiveness was the big selling point of GUIs, but they
were never intuitive. Neither are CLIs, of course, but CLIs are no
harder to learn than GUIs, and are much more powerful and flexible.
(They also make more efficient use of the computer, but that's less
of an issue now that computers are extremely powerful.)
To clarify, I was speaking of the Mac only as a platform for NetBSD
and its related CLIs. I am no fan of any GUI, except for specialized
non-text-related uses such as playing video games.
> The most painful example of the above was long long ago when the Mac
> had *just* come out: ...
That was long before they rebuilt it on top of NetBSD. The first Macs
didn't *have* any CLI. They didn't have useful error messages either,
just frowny faces and a picture of a bomb. (That picture caused at
least one or two genuine bomb scares!)
> (Because using the mouse requires removing my hand from the
> keyboard, ya stupid git.)
Indeed. I'm another murophobe. The VT420, on which I spend most
of my online time, doesn't have a mouse. The Apple laptop I nearly
always use in its so-called terminal (shell) CLI mode, which doesn't
use the mouse-equivalent touchpad.
Dorothy J Heydt
>> I have had very traumatic experiences with Macs, mostly based
>> around the fact that its developers assume that because they use
>> pictures instead of words, everything they do is intuitively
>> obvious. Not so.
>
>Indeed. Intuitiveness was the big selling point of GUIs, but they
>were never intuitive. Neither are CLIs, of course, but CLIs are no
>harder to learn than GUIs, and are much more powerful and flexible.
>(They also make more efficient use of the computer, but that's less
>of an issue now that computers are extremely powerful.)
Ring the bells, run up the flags, sound the trumpets. For once
in a way, Keith and I are in agreement.
>
>> The most painful example of the above was long long ago when the Mac
>> had *just* come out: ...
>
>That was long before they rebuilt it on top of NetBSD. The first Macs
>didn't *have* any CLI. They didn't have useful error messages either,
>just frowny faces and a picture of a bomb. (That picture caused at
>least one or two genuine bomb scares!)
Ayup. As I said, the Mac designers had been using those little
niceties like doubleclicking for *years* while putting the thing
together. *They* knew exactly what it was about. Didn't
everybody? No.
>
>> (Because using the mouse requires removing my hand from the
>> keyboard, ya stupid git.)
>
>Indeed. I'm another murophobe. The VT420, on which I spend most
>of my online time, doesn't have a mouse. The Apple laptop I nearly
>always use in its so-called terminal (shell) CLI mode, which doesn't
>use the mouse-equivalent touchpad.
I now use a trackball when I've got to use a pointer-type thing
at all, chiefly because you don't have to clear a lot of space to
put down a mousepad and run the mouse all over it.
But worse than mice I hate touchpads. The nice IBM Thinkpad
laptop that I used to have had a little touchpad with an itsy
bitsy button, about the size of a pyracantha berry and the same
color, for use where you'd use a mouse button if you had a mouse.
Hal searched and found me a plug-in trackball and also a plug-in
number-keypad, because the game I was playing at the time
(Asheron's Call) used the latter for various commands. The
Thinkpad's power supply finally died, though I think I still have
it around somewhere. Oughtta dig it out and donate it to the
Technology Museum.
netcat
>
> In article <hr9qg7$q2h$1...@reader1.panix.com>,
> Paul Ciszek <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
> >
> >In article <L1LHK...@kithrup.com>,
> >Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>Of course, the real fix for this machine will be to buy Windows
> >>7; but that will take time because it will take money.
> >
> >Ubuntu doesn't cost money.
>
> Oh, if Linux were a feasible alternative in this case, Hal has
> Susi 9.2 which he could easily install.
Suse 9.2 would be so far out of date I don't even remember how out of
date it is. Why would you install an outdated, unsupported distribution
of Linux when a new one is available for free?
> But there is not (yet) a version of Lord of the Rings Online
> which will run under Linux.
Actually, you _could_ run the Windows version under Linux or Mac with a
bit of tinkering or so they claim.
http://lorebook.lotro.com/wiki/LOTRO_under_Linux_and_Mac_OS
> So I'm stuck till we can get W7.
Your Vista may include downgrade rights to XP. Any sane person would
consider that an improvement over Vista.
rgds,
netcat
Dorothy J Heydt
netcat <net...@devnull.eridani.eol.ee> wrote:
>
>Suse 9.2 would be so far out of date I don't even remember how out of
>date it is. Why would you install an outdated, unsupported distribution
>of Linux when a new one is available for free?
Because that's the one Hal has the box of, and it still works
(the machine we run DunDraCon reg on).
>
>> But there is not (yet) a version of Lord of the Rings Online
>> which will run under Linux.
>
>Actually, you _could_ run the Windows version under Linux or Mac with a
>bit of tinkering or so they claim.
>
>http://lorebook.lotro.com/wiki/LOTRO_under_Linux_and_Mac_OS
I am not up to that kind of tinkering.
>
>> So I'm stuck till we can get W7.
>
>Your Vista may include downgrade rights to XP. Any sane person would
>consider that an improvement over Vista.
Oh, it would. But (as I think I explained upthread) this Vista
box was the last of its breed at the local Fry's; it had been the
demo model; Hal got it cheap; we don't even have a Vista disk to
go with it, and no manuals. Certainly nothing in the way of a
downgrade to XP, or he would've installed that immediately after
bringing it home.
David V. Loewe, Jr
wrote:
>Keith F. Lynch <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
>>Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
>>> (Because using the mouse requires removing my hand from the
>>> keyboard, ya stupid git.)
>>
>>Indeed. I'm another murophobe. The VT420, on which I spend most
>>of my online time, doesn't have a mouse. The Apple laptop I nearly
>>always use in its so-called terminal (shell) CLI mode, which doesn't
>>use the mouse-equivalent touchpad.
>
>I now use a trackball when I've got to use a pointer-type thing
>at all, chiefly because you don't have to clear a lot of space to
>put down a mousepad and run the mouse all over it.
I love trackballs. I have converted many people to trackballs. Mice
make my shoulder hurt.
>But worse than mice I hate touchpads. The nice IBM Thinkpad
>laptop that I used to have had a little touchpad with an itsy
>bitsy button, about the size of a pyracantha berry and the same
>color, for use where you'd use a mouse button if you had a mouse.
>Hal searched and found me a plug-in trackball and also a plug-in
>number-keypad, because the game I was playing at the time
>(Asheron's Call) used the latter for various commands. The
>Thinkpad's power supply finally died, though I think I still have
>it around somewhere. Oughtta dig it out and donate it to the
>Technology Museum.
--
"It takes three years to build a ship; it takes three centuries
to build a tradition."
Admiral Andrew Cunningham at Crete
Keith F. Lynch
> Suse 9.2 would be so far out of date I don't even remember how out
> of date it is.
If it does the job, what difference does it make how old it is?
> Why would you install an outdated, unsupported distribution of Linux
> when a new one is available for free?
Maybe Suse 9.2 is what Hal is most familiar and comfortable with. Or
maybe he has software and peripherals that work with it, and doesn't
want to go through the hassle of thoroughly testing everything to make
sure it still works with a newer version.
Nate Edel
> theoretically -- you can search for things faster."
>
> "So," I ask, "is it benign, malignant, or blah?"
>
> "It's not actually malignant. Whether it does you any good is a
> good question."
The built-in search in Vista and Windows 7 is quite good. The original
version of search that came with 2000 and XP is useless, and the 3.0 version
that XP updated to around the time Vista came out was basically useless too.
I don't know where the updated versions since have improved any.
> Of course, the real fix for this machine will be to buy Windows
> 7; but that will take time because it will take money.
Depending on the age of the system involved, it might be better to replace
it with one that comes with Windows 7. The cost of a good basic desktop has
gotten very, very low indeed.
--
Nate Edel http://www.cubiclehermit.com/
preferred email |
is "nate" at the | "I do have a cause, though. It's obscenity. I'm
posting domain | for it."
Nate Edel
> On Thu, 29 Apr 2010 02:54:11 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
> wrote:
> >I now use a trackball when I've got to use a pointer-type thing
> >at all, chiefly because you don't have to clear a lot of space to
> >put down a mousepad and run the mouse all over it.
>
> I love trackballs. I have converted many people to trackballs. Mice
> make my shoulder hurt.
Do you prefer the thumb-ball, or finger-ball type?
Nate Edel
> >Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>Of course, the real fix for this machine will be to buy Windows
> >>7; but that will take time because it will take money.
> >
> >Ubuntu doesn't cost money.
>
> Oh, if Linux were a feasible alternative in this case, Hal has
> Susi 9.2 which he could easily install.
SuSE 9.x is obsolete, although the current version is just as free to
install and download as Ubuntu (although it's called OpenSuSE for the free
version these days.)
> But there is not (yet) a version of Lord of the Rings Online
> which will run under Linux.
The WINE folks seem to say that it will run:
http://appdb.winehq.org/appview.php?iAppId=4891
http://www.lotrolinux.com/
Not something you'd want to attempt yourself, but I don't think Hal would
have much trouble.
David Loewe, Jr.
wrote:
>David V. Loewe, Jr <dave...@charter.net> wrote:
>> On Thu, 29 Apr 2010 02:54:11 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
>> wrote:
>> >I now use a trackball when I've got to use a pointer-type thing
>> >at all, chiefly because you don't have to clear a lot of space to
>> >put down a mousepad and run the mouse all over it.
>>
>> I love trackballs. I have converted many people to trackballs. Mice
>> make my shoulder hurt.
>
>Do you prefer the thumb-ball, or finger-ball type?
Thumb.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826104156
--
"Will you come quietly, or must I use earplugs?"
- Russ Cage
Dorothy J Heydt
Nate Edel <arch...@sfchat.org> wrote:
>David V. Loewe, Jr <dave...@charter.net> wrote:
>> On Thu, 29 Apr 2010 02:54:11 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
>> wrote:
>> >I now use a trackball when I've got to use a pointer-type thing
>> >at all, chiefly because you don't have to clear a lot of space to
>> >put down a mousepad and run the mouse all over it.
>>
>> I love trackballs. I have converted many people to trackballs. Mice
>> make my shoulder hurt.
>
>Do you prefer the thumb-ball, or finger-ball type?
I use a finger-ball one. My thumb goes over the left button and
my fourth finger over the right one (when I use it).
Dorothy J Heydt
Nate Edel <arch...@sfchat.org> wrote:
>Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
>> Hal says, "It's indexing the files on your system so that --
>> theoretically -- you can search for things faster."
>>
>> "So," I ask, "is it benign, malignant, or blah?"
>>
>> "It's not actually malignant. Whether it does you any good is a
>> good question."
>
>The built-in search in Vista and Windows 7 is quite good. The original
>version of search that came with 2000 and XP is useless, and the 3.0 version
>that XP updated to around the time Vista came out was basically useless too.
>
>I don't know where the updated versions since have improved any.
>
>> Of course, the real fix for this machine will be to buy Windows
>> 7; but that will take time because it will take money.
>
>Depending on the age of the system involved, it might be better to replace
>it with one that comes with Windows 7. The cost of a good basic desktop has
>gotten very, very low indeed.
Not as low as our current income. I get a little bit of Social
Security and he gets a little bit of unemployment. He got me
that machine last year when he was still working (for AT&T, for
peanuts), because it was cheap. He couldn't do it now.
Dorothy J Heydt
Nate Edel <arch...@sfchat.org> wrote:
>Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
>> Paul Ciszek <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
>> >Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>Of course, the real fix for this machine will be to buy Windows
>> >>7; but that will take time because it will take money.
>> >
>> >Ubuntu doesn't cost money.
>>
>> Oh, if Linux were a feasible alternative in this case, Hal has
>> Susi 9.2 which he could easily install.
>
>SuSE 9.x is obsolete, although the current version is just as free to
>install and download as Ubuntu (although it's called OpenSuSE for the free
>version these days.)
>
>> But there is not (yet) a version of Lord of the Rings Online
>> which will run under Linux.
>
>The WINE folks seem to say that it will run:
>http://appdb.winehq.org/appview.php?iAppId=4891
>http://www.lotrolinux.com/
>
>Not something you'd want to attempt yourself, but I don't think Hal would
>have much trouble.
Hm. Well, I have just sent him the link and we'll see what he
says.
Nate Edel
> >David V. Loewe, Jr <dave...@charter.net> wrote:
> >> I love trackballs. I have converted many people to trackballs. Mice
> >> make my shoulder hurt.
> >
> >Do you prefer the thumb-ball, or finger-ball type?
>
> I use a finger-ball one. My thumb goes over the left button and
> my fourth finger over the right one (when I use it).
Thanks! Have you tried the thumb ones to have a preference between the two?
Nate Edel
That's what I've got - two of them, home desktop and work desktop; the
trackball option that work offered to people was:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826104249
and our IT guys didn't see the difference.
Nate Edel
> netcat <net...@devnull.eridani.eol.ee> wrote:
> > Suse 9.2 would be so far out of date I don't even remember how out
> > of date it is.
>
> If it does the job, what difference does it make how old it is?
On newer hardware, it may not do the job. It also may not have up to date
security patches. I don't remember how old SuSE 9 is, but it also may not
support unicode or IPv6 if it's old enough; neither is a pressing need now,
but both are likely to be within the lifetime of a machine newly put into
service today.
Dorothy J Heydt
Nate Edel <arch...@sfchat.org> wrote:
>Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
>> Nate Edel <arch...@sfchat.org> wrote:
>> >David V. Loewe, Jr <dave...@charter.net> wrote:
>> >> I love trackballs. I have converted many people to trackballs. Mice
>> >> make my shoulder hurt.
>> >
>> >Do you prefer the thumb-ball, or finger-ball type?
>>
>> I use a finger-ball one. My thumb goes over the left button and
>> my fourth finger over the right one (when I use it).
>
>Thanks! Have you tried the thumb ones to have a preference between the two?
I haven't tried them in actual use. I've seen them at Fry's and
other stores and put my hand over them, decided I didn't like
'em, and stuck with what I had.
Nate Edel
> Nate Edel <arch...@sfchat.org> wrote:
> >Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
> >> Of course, the real fix for this machine will be to buy Windows
> >> 7; but that will take time because it will take money.
> >
> >Depending on the age of the system involved, it might be better to replace
> >it with one that comes with Windows 7. The cost of a good basic desktop has
> >gotten very, very low indeed.
>
> Not as low as our current income.
Hence Windows 7 being an expense for the indefinite future, as you noted.
The question comes once you do have the cash for that, the difference
between a Windows 7 license ($99, $130, $170 depending on the type of
license you need) and a very cheap PC ($200) may be small enough to be worth
looking at.
> He got me that machine last year when he was still working (for AT&T, for
> peanuts), because it was cheap. He couldn't do it now.
If it was new a year ago, it's unlikely that anything super-cheap would be
worth looking at as any kind of an improvement, but that may no longer be
true depending on how long it takes for the job/budget situation to fix
itself.
Andy Leighton
> In article <tknpa7x...@claudius.sfchat.org>,
> Nate Edel <arch...@sfchat.org> wrote:
>>David V. Loewe, Jr <dave...@charter.net> wrote:
>>> On Thu, 29 Apr 2010 02:54:11 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
>>> wrote:
>>> >I now use a trackball when I've got to use a pointer-type thing
>>> >at all, chiefly because you don't have to clear a lot of space to
>>> >put down a mousepad and run the mouse all over it.
>>>
>>> I love trackballs. I have converted many people to trackballs. Mice
>>> make my shoulder hurt.
>>
>>Do you prefer the thumb-ball, or finger-ball type?
>
> I use a finger-ball one. My thumb goes over the left button and
> my fourth finger over the right one (when I use it).
I use an old (at least 10 years old) Trackman Marble. This is a
thumb-ball trackball. The thumb goes over the ball - each of the
first three fingers gets a button.
It isn't as old as my keyboard which is coming up to 17 years old
now - a good old clicky clacky IBM Model M keyboard.
--
Andy Leighton => an...@azaal.plus.com
"The Lord is my shepherd, but we still lost the sheep dog trials"
- Robert Rankin, _They Came And Ate Us_
David Loewe, Jr.
wrote:
>On Fri, 30 Apr 2010 02:08:23 GMT, Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
>> Nate Edel <arch...@sfchat.org> wrote:
>>>David V. Loewe, Jr <dave...@charter.net> wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 29 Apr 2010 02:54:11 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >I now use a trackball when I've got to use a pointer-type thing
>>>> >at all, chiefly because you don't have to clear a lot of space to
>>>> >put down a mousepad and run the mouse all over it.
>>>>
>>>> I love trackballs. I have converted many people to trackballs. Mice
>>>> make my shoulder hurt.
>>>
>>>Do you prefer the thumb-ball, or finger-ball type?
>>
>> I use a finger-ball one. My thumb goes over the left button and
>> my fourth finger over the right one (when I use it).
>
>I use an old (at least 10 years old) Trackman Marble. This is a
>thumb-ball trackball. The thumb goes over the ball - each of the
>first three fingers gets a button.
>
>It isn't as old as my keyboard which is coming up to 17 years old
>now - a good old clicky clacky IBM Model M keyboard.
I have three IBM KB-5923s. They aren't the full "clicky clacky" type,
but they are a lot more substantial than these flimsy excuses for
keyboards they sell now a days. Plus I like the full keyboard layout.
--
"The peak of the [Presidential] campaign happened in Albuquerque, where
a local reporter said to me, "Dr. Commoner, are you a serious candidate
or are you just running on the issues?""
Dr. Barry Commoner
David Loewe, Jr.
wrote:
>Nate Edel <arch...@sfchat.org> wrote:
>>Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
>>> Nate Edel <arch...@sfchat.org> wrote:
>>> >David V. Loewe, Jr <dave...@charter.net> wrote:
>>> >> I love trackballs. I have converted many people to trackballs. Mice
>>> >> make my shoulder hurt.
>>> >
>>> >Do you prefer the thumb-ball, or finger-ball type?
>>>
>>> I use a finger-ball one. My thumb goes over the left button and
>>> my fourth finger over the right one (when I use it).
>>
>>Thanks! Have you tried the thumb ones to have a preference between the two?
>
>I haven't tried them in actual use. I've seen them at Fry's and
>other stores and put my hand over them, decided I didn't like
>'em, and stuck with what I had.
While you should always stick with what you like, one reason *I* like
the thumb-ball type is that the button layout is similar to a
traditional mouse which minimizes the adjustment if I am forced to use a
mouse.
--
"On a morning from a Bogart movie
In a country where they turn back time
You go strolling through the crowd like Peter Lorre
Contemplating a crime."
Al Stewart & Peter Wood
Kip Williams
> Dorothy J Heydt<djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
>> Nate Edel<arch...@sfchat.org> wrote:
>>> David V. Loewe, Jr<dave...@charter.net> wrote:
>>>> I love trackballs. I have converted many people to trackballs. Mice
>>>> make my shoulder hurt.
>>>
>>> Do you prefer the thumb-ball, or finger-ball type?
>>
>> I use a finger-ball one. My thumb goes over the left button and
>> my fourth finger over the right one (when I use it).
>
> Thanks! Have you tried the thumb ones to have a preference between the two?
I like whole-hand ones the size of a billiard ball.
I went to a pool table supply and bought an 8-ball for the one I used to
have at work. They asked if I was putting it on a gearshift. It was a
fraction of an inch smaller, but that didn't keep it from functioning,
as it still sat neatly on the little wheels. I also like how it never
asked for additional real estate, and the buttons were always right
where I could reach for them without looking.
Kensington was always very responsive when I had a problem,
cross-shipping a replacement as soon as I called. I eventually had to go
back to a regular mouse because it was better for tracing outlines of
objects in Illustrator. Later I got a Wacom tablet, which comes with its
own wireless mouse, so at least I had the advantages of good tracing
(which is still often easier with a mouse, clicking from point to point,
than with a pen) along with the finite and predictable desk space aspect.
Kip W
Dorothy J Heydt
>wrote:
>
>>Nate Edel <arch...@sfchat.org> wrote:
>>>Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
>>>> Nate Edel <arch...@sfchat.org> wrote:
>>>> >David V. Loewe, Jr <dave...@charter.net> wrote:
>
>>>> >> I love trackballs. I have converted many people to trackballs. Mice
>>>> >> make my shoulder hurt.
>>>> >
>>>> >Do you prefer the thumb-ball, or finger-ball type?
>>>>
>>>> I use a finger-ball one. My thumb goes over the left button and
>>>> my fourth finger over the right one (when I use it).
>>>
>>>Thanks! Have you tried the thumb ones to have a preference between the two?
>>
>>I haven't tried them in actual use. I've seen them at Fry's and
>>other stores and put my hand over them, decided I didn't like
>>'em, and stuck with what I had.
>
>While you should always stick with what you like, one reason *I* like
>the thumb-ball type is that the button layout is similar to a
>traditional mouse which minimizes the adjustment if I am forced to use a
>mouse.
That's a point, I suppose. The chance that I will be forced to
use a traditional mouse is vanishingly slim at this stage.
Martha Adams
wrote:
> On Fri, 30 Apr 2010 02:08:23 GMT, Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com>
> wrote:
>> In article <tknpa7x...@claudius.sfchat.org>,
>> Nate Edel <arch...@sfchat.org> wrote:
>>> David V. Loewe, Jr <dave...@charter.net> wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 29 Apr 2010 02:54:11 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
>>>> Heydt)
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >I now use a trackball when I've got to use a pointer-type thing
>>>> >at all, chiefly because you don't have to clear a lot of space to
>>>> >put down a mousepad and run the mouse all over it.
>>>>
>>>> I love trackballs. I have converted many people to trackballs. Mice
>>>> make my shoulder hurt.
>>>
>>> Do you prefer the thumb-ball, or finger-ball type?
>>
>> I use a finger-ball one. My thumb goes over the left button and
>> my fourth finger over the right one (when I use it).
>
> I use an old (at least 10 years old) Trackman Marble. This is a
> thumb-ball trackball. The thumb goes over the ball - each of the
> first three fingers gets a button.
>
> It isn't as old as my keyboard which is coming up to 17 years old
> now - a good old clicky clacky IBM Model M keyboard.
================================================
Trackballs is off my thread topic -- and it's very interesting. I have
used trackballs in the past but they seem to have disappeared from the
market here in the Boston area. Our dominant supplier (only, presently)
is Micro Center and next time I'm in their store, I'll ask about
trackballs. I'm presently using a Logitech radio mouse, and it's good
(except for occasionally replacing batteries) but for reasons already
mentioned here, I'm going to see if I can find a modern, usb-connecting
trackball.
Titeotwawki -- mha [2010 Apr 30]
Ben Yalow
>Keith F. Lynch <k...@keithlynch.net> wrote:
>> netcat <net...@devnull.eridani.eol.ee> wrote:
>> > Suse 9.2 would be so far out of date I don't even remember how out
>> > of date it is.
>>
>> If it does the job, what difference does it make how old it is?
>On newer hardware, it may not do the job. It also may not have up to date
>security patches. I don't remember how old SuSE 9 is, but it also may not
>support unicode or IPv6 if it's old enough; neither is a pressing need now,
>but both are likely to be within the lifetime of a machine newly put into
>service today.
I'm less sure on a home machine that IP6 will be needed. I expect most
ISPs will be running (or, at least, have available) IP4 for their
customers who don't need full connectivity, or be running an IP4<->IP6
gateway.
>--
>Nate Edel http://www.cubiclehermit.com/
> preferred email |
> is "nate" at the | "I do have a cause, though. It's obscenity. I'm
> posting domain | for it."
Ben
--
Ben Yalow yb...@panix.com
Not speaking for anybody
David Loewe, Jr.
wrote:
I don't know about your Micro Center, Martha, but mine carries them.
http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0216952
>I'm presently using a Logitech radio mouse, and it's good
>(except for occasionally replacing batteries) but for reasons already
>mentioned here, I'm going to see if I can find a modern, usb-connecting
>trackball.
--
"F x S = k - The product of Freedom and Security is a constant.
To gain more freedom of thought and/or action, you must give up
some security, and vice versa.
These remarks apply to individuals, nations and civilizations.
Notice that the constant k is different for every civilization
and different for every individual."
-Laurence VanCott Niven
Dorothy J Heydt
than a mouse, I suppose, but I'd really rather use the finger
kind.
David V. Loewe, Jr
wrote:
>David Loewe, Jr. <dlo...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>On Fri, 30 Apr 2010 18:04:20 +0100, "Martha Adams" <mh...@verizon.net>
>>wrote:
>>>Trackballs is off my thread topic -- and it's very interesting. I have
>>>used trackballs in the past but they seem to have disappeared from the
>>>market here in the Boston area. Our dominant supplier (only, presently)
>>>is Micro Center and next time I'm in their store, I'll ask about
>>>trackballs.
>>
>>I don't know about your Micro Center, Martha, but mine carries them.
>>
>>http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0216952
>>
>So it does, but that's the thumb kind. I would rather use that
>than a mouse, I suppose, but I'd really rather use the finger
>kind.
They have the finger kind (in the Kensington flavor) as well.
--
"Go ahead and hate your neighbor, go ahead and cheat a friend
Do it in the name of heaven and you can justify it in the end
There won't be any trumpets blowing come the Judgement Day
And on the bloody morning after....One Tin Soldier rides away."
One Tin Soldier - The Legend Of Billy Jack
David Harmon
djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote,
>demo model; Hal got it cheap; we don't even have a Vista disk to
>go with it, and no manuals.
It is common for even pristine new computers to come with the OS already
installed and no OS disk or manuals. There is often some way provided
to create your own recovery CD or some similar thing, from the
information on the hard drive.
Dorothy J Heydt
Keith F. Lynch
> It is common for even pristine new computers to come with the OS
> already installed and no OS disk or manuals.
Indeed. It's sometiems called the "Microsoft tax." Since it's nearly
impossible to buy a PC without Windows installed on it, nearly every
computer user is forced to buy Windows even if they have no intention
of ever running it.
dsgood
>In article <ysGdnY5o692r70bW...@earthlink.com>,
>David Harmon <b...@example.invalid> wrote:
>>On Thu, 29 Apr 2010 15:17:37 GMT in rec.arts.sf.fandom,
>>djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote,
>>>demo model; Hal got it cheap; we don't even have a Vista disk to
>>>go with it, and no manuals.
>>
>>It is common for even pristine new computers to come with the OS
>>already installed and no OS disk or manuals. There is often some
>>way provided to create your own recovery CD or some similar thing,
>>from the information on the hard drive.
>
>Yeah. How do you do that, with no manual?
By reading the programmers' minds, of course.
--
Dan Goodman
"I have always depended on the kindness of stranglers."
Tennessee Williams, A Streetcar Named Expire
Journal dsgood.dreamwidth.org (livejournal.com, insanejournal.com)
Dorothy J Heydt
dsgood <dsg...@iphouse.com> wrote:
>
>>In article <ysGdnY5o692r70bW...@earthlink.com>,
>>David Harmon <b...@example.invalid> wrote:
>>>On Thu, 29 Apr 2010 15:17:37 GMT in rec.arts.sf.fandom,
>>>djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote,
>>>>demo model; Hal got it cheap; we don't even have a Vista disk to
>>>>go with it, and no manuals.
>>>
>>>It is common for even pristine new computers to come with the OS
>>>already installed and no OS disk or manuals. There is often some
>>>way provided to create your own recovery CD or some similar thing,
>>>from the information on the hard drive.
>>
>>Yeah. How do you do that, with no manual?
>
>By reading the programmers' minds, of course.
If I could do that I wouldn't be broke.
Keith F. Lynch
>> By reading the programmers' minds, of course.
> If I could do that I wouldn't be broke.
To make money, it would probably be more useful to read
stockbrokers' minds.
Dorothy J Heydt
Keith F. Lynch <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
>Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
>> dsgood <dsg...@iphouse.com> wrote:
>>> By reading the programmers' minds, of course.
>
>> If I could do that I wouldn't be broke.
>
>To make money, it would probably be more useful to read
>stockbrokers' minds.
Or something. If I could read programmers' minds, I could
probably read others', more lucrative.
Doug Wickström
Heydt) wrote:
>In article <ysGdnY5o692r70bW...@earthlink.com>,
>David Harmon <b...@example.invalid> wrote:
>>On Thu, 29 Apr 2010 15:17:37 GMT in rec.arts.sf.fandom,
>>djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote,
>>>demo model; Hal got it cheap; we don't even have a Vista disk to
>>>go with it, and no manuals.
>>
>>It is common for even pristine new computers to come with the OS already
>>installed and no OS disk or manuals. There is often some way provided
>>to create your own recovery CD or some similar thing, from the
>>information on the hard drive.
>
>Yeah. How do you do that, with no manual?
Those computers that come so configured have a utility boot
loader, that if it determines the OS is so screwed up it cannot
load, will ask you if you want to restore your system.
Be very careful how you answer. The first thing you see if you
tell it to go ahead is "FORMATTING DRIVE C:".
--
Doug Wickstr�
Kip Williams
> In article<ysGdnY5o692r70bW...@earthlink.com>,
> David Harmon<b...@example.invalid> wrote:
>> On Thu, 29 Apr 2010 15:17:37 GMT in rec.arts.sf.fandom,
>> djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote,
>>> demo model; Hal got it cheap; we don't even have a Vista disk to
>>> go with it, and no manuals.
>>
>> It is common for even pristine new computers to come with the OS already
>> installed and no OS disk or manuals. There is often some way provided
>> to create your own recovery CD or some similar thing, from the
>> information on the hard drive.
>
> Yeah. How do you do that, with no manual?
Use the pedals?
Kip W
"Use automatic" was too obvious.
Nate Edel
> Keith F. Lynch <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
> >Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
> >> dsgood <dsg...@iphouse.com> wrote:
> >>> By reading the programmers' minds, of course.
> >
> >> If I could do that I wouldn't be broke.
> >
> >To make money, it would probably be more useful to read
> >stockbrokers' minds.
>
> Or something. If I could read programmers' minds, I could
> probably read others', more lucrative.
Maybe, or it could be exclusive. As a programmer, I assure you that reading
my mind or those of most of my colleagues would be neither profitable, nor
very interesting, for most people.
Nate Edel
> djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote,
> >demo model; Hal got it cheap; we don't even have a Vista disk to
> >go with it, and no manuals.
>
> It is common for even pristine new computers to come with the OS already
> installed and no OS disk or manuals. There is often some way provided
> to create your own recovery CD or some similar thing, from the
> information on the hard drive.
OTOH, with Vista, any disk with the right can be used to reinstall any
machine, so as long as you have your own proper serial number (and with most
major brand PCs that is on a sticker directly attached to the machine) it is
reasonable and not even a particular license violation to borrow a Vista DVD
from someone else if you ever need to reinstall.
Nate Edel
> impossible to buy a PC without Windows installed on it,
No, it's just a bit inconvenient. Dell, for one company, sells most of
their business models either with Windows or as the "model#N" model with
either Linux or Freedos preinstalled. OTOH, it's not generally any cheaper
than the cheapest version of Windows.
That also excludes Macs (which may or may not count as PCs) and servers
(ditto.)
Nate Edel
> >It is common for even pristine new computers to come with the OS already
> >installed and no OS disk or manuals. There is often some way provided
> >to create your own recovery CD or some similar thing, from the
> >information on the hard drive.
>
> Yeah. How do you do that, with no manual?
Find the manual on the web, or the copy on the PC if one was there. There's
often a "start here" icon with the preinstalled crapware.
dsgood
>Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
>> dsgood <dsg...@iphouse.com> wrote:
>>> By reading the programmers' minds, of course.
>
>> If I could do that I wouldn't be broke.
>
>To make money, it would probably be more useful to read
>stockbrokers' minds.
Only if the stockbrokers knew what they were doing.
Keith F. Lynch
>>> dsgood <dsg...@iphouse.com> wrote:
>>>> By reading the programmers' minds, of course.
>>> If I could do that I wouldn't be broke.
>> To make money, it would probably be more useful to read
>> stockbrokers' minds.
> Only if the stockbrokers knew what they were doing.
No, it's sufficient that they have advance knowledge of what the
market is doing. And I think they do.
Keith F. Lynch
> Those computers that come so configured have a utility boot loader,
> that if it determines the OS is so screwed up it cannot load, will
> ask you if you want to restore your system.
> Be very careful how you answer. The first thing you see if you tell
> it to go ahead is "FORMATTING DRIVE C:".
Is it usual to keep user data on the same drive as the OS? What about
user data that the OS maintains for you, such as your address book?
Keith F. Lynch
> Keith F. Lynch <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
>> To make money, it would probably be more useful to read
>> stockbrokers' minds.
> Or something. If I could read programmers' minds, I could
> probably read others', more lucrative.
What category of person would be the most lucrative to read
the minds of?
Keith F. Lynch
> I don't remember how old SuSE 9 is, but it also may not support
> unicode or IPv6 if it's old enough; neither is a pressing need now,
> but both are likely to be within the lifetime of a machine newly put
> into service today.
Fifteen years ago, IPv6 was the standard which we were all supposed
to adopt within a year or two, as the net was running out of IP
addresses. Somehow, as with the earlier planned transition from
TCP/IP to ISO/OSI, the switch from all other programming languages
to Ada, and the replacement of RAM and hard disks with bubble
memory, it never happened.
Is it still just around the corner?
Keith F. Lynch
> The built-in search in Vista and Windows 7 is quite good. The
> original version of search that came with 2000 and XP is useless,
> and the 3.0 version that XP updated to around the time Vista came
> out was basically useless too.
Do these searches pre-index files, like Google or a DBMS, or are they
like the Unix/Linux "grep" command?
I've found that for simple searches on modern machines, grep is fast
enough, even if I'm searching through *all* my files: Decades of
email, newsgroup postings, and saved web pages.
Lowell Gilbert
Dorothy J Heydt
Keith F. Lynch <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
>Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
>> Keith F. Lynch <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
>>> To make money, it would probably be more useful to read
>>> stockbrokers' minds.
>
>> Or something. If I could read programmers' minds, I could
>> probably read others', more lucrative.
>
>What category of person would be the most lucrative to read
>the minds of?
People with guilty secrets, vulnerable to blackmail?
Only I wouldn't do that.
CEOs of companies that are about to do something astonishing with
their stock, before even the stockbrokers know about it?
Maybe I should just go to Nevada and learn to win at blackjack.
Nate Edel
> Keith F. Lynch <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
> >What category of person would be the most lucrative to read
> >the minds of?
>
Poker would be the form of gambling most immediately obvious as a way to
profit from mind reading, although you'd need to have some skill even with
perfect information about the other players' cards.
Nate Edel
> > Be very careful how you answer. The first thing you see if you tell
> > it to go ahead is "FORMATTING DRIVE C:".
>
> Is it usual to keep user data on the same drive as the OS?
Yes. Relatively few people have more than one permanently installed drive.
The old advice to split that drive up into multple partitions has largely
disappeared.
Usually, any additional drives will be externals, often slower (unless
they're eSATA) and used either for backup or for bulk media storage.
> What about user data that the OS maintains for you, such as your address
> book?
Harder to segregate the working copy, at least in the sense that relatively
few people would know what "move the user profile" means on a Windows box
(and even plenty of inexperienced Linux/BSD/whatever users may not realize
that /home/theiruser is just something specified in /etc/passwd)
Dorothy J Heydt
Nate Edel <arch...@sfchat.org> wrote:
>Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
>> Keith F. Lynch <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
>> >What category of person would be the most lucrative to read
>> >the minds of?
>>
>> Maybe I should just go to Nevada and learn to win at blackjack.
>
>Poker would be the form of gambling most immediately obvious as a way to
>profit from mind reading, although you'd need to have some skill even with
>perfect information about the other players' cards.
ObSF: "That Sweet Little Old Lady" aka, I think, _Brain Twister.)
"Mr. Congressman," he thought to himself, "There's this game
called poker. You play it with cards and money. Mostly money."
I know nothing more about poker than the above. Neither did Her
Majesty, but I guess she learned fast.
Steve Coltrin
"Keith F. Lynch" <k...@KeithLynch.net> writes:
> Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
>> But there is not (yet) a version of Lord of the Rings Online which
>> will run under Linux.
>
> Is there one that will run on a Mac? If so, presumably it would also
> run on NetBSD, which is better than Linux.
Almost precisely backwards; most *nix programs can be gotten to work
on Mac OS X fairly easy (as the headers of this post may or may not
reveal), but there is no for-Mac consumer program you will find that
does not rely on parts of OS X that no Unix will have.
(And for what it's worth, Darwin - which is a significant but not
complete part of OS X - is more closely related to FreeBSD than NetBSD.)
--
Steve Coltrin spco...@omcl.org Google Groups killfiled here
"A group known as the League of Human Dignity helped arrange for Deuel
to be driven to a local livestock scale, where he could be weighed."
- Associated Press
Ben Yalow
>Nate Edel <arch...@sfchat.org> wrote:
>> I don't remember how old SuSE 9 is, but it also may not support
>> unicode or IPv6 if it's old enough; neither is a pressing need now,
>> but both are likely to be within the lifetime of a machine newly put
>> into service today.
>Fifteen years ago, IPv6 was the standard which we were all supposed
>to adopt within a year or two, as the net was running out of IP
>addresses. Somehow, as with the earlier planned transition from
>TCP/IP to ISO/OSI, the switch from all other programming languages
>to Ada, and the replacement of RAM and hard disks with bubble
>memory, it never happened.
We were running out of addresses -- so the structure of IP4 was redesigned
as a short term fix. So there aren't class B networks -- you might get a
/16 though. But CIDR and NAT let the existing address space get
reallocated more efficiently, just in time.
Of course, now there aren't those efficiencies, and we're a few years away
from running out of IP4 address space.
>Is it still just around the corner?
Every major operating system on the net has native IP6 support. It's
rolling into production right now. It's slow -- but we'll be out of IP4
addresses in a few years, so there won't be any choice.
>--
>Keith F. Lynch - http://keithlynch.net/
>Please see http://keithlynch.net/email.html before emailing me.
Ben
--
Ben Yalow yb...@panix.com
Not speaking for anybody
Steve Coltrin
"Keith F. Lynch" <k...@KeithLynch.net> writes:
> Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
>> Keith F. Lynch <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
>>> To make money, it would probably be more useful to read
>>> stockbrokers' minds.
>
>> Or something. If I could read programmers' minds, I could
>> probably read others', more lucrative.
>
> What category of person would be the most lucrative to read
> the minds of?
Poker players.
Dorothy J Heydt
Steve Coltrin <spco...@omcl.org> wrote:
>begin fnord
>"Keith F. Lynch" <k...@KeithLynch.net> writes:
>
>> Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
>>> Keith F. Lynch <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
>>>> To make money, it would probably be more useful to read
>>>> stockbrokers' minds.
>>
>>> Or something. If I could read programmers' minds, I could
>>> probably read others', more lucrative.
>>
>> What category of person would be the most lucrative to read
>> the minds of?
>
>Poker players.
Yes, that's been mentioned. But how useful would mind-reading be
to one who knows zilch about poker?
Nate Edel
> >Poker would be the form of gambling most immediately obvious as a way to
> >profit from mind reading, although you'd need to have some skill even with
> >perfect information about the other players' cards.
>
> ObSF: "That Sweet Little Old Lady" aka, I think, _Brain Twister.)
>
> "Mr. Congressman," he thought to himself, "There's this game
> called poker. You play it with cards and money. Mostly money."
>
> I know nothing more about poker than the above. Neither did Her
> Majesty, but I guess she learned fast.
If you suddenly gain the ability to read minds, you can learn it then.
Otherwise, I'd say the downsides of gambling outweigh the entertainment
value.
Steve Coltrin
djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) writes:
> In article <m2fx2an...@Steve-Coltrins-iMac.local>,
> Steve Coltrin <spco...@omcl.org> wrote:
>>begin fnord
>>"Keith F. Lynch" <k...@KeithLynch.net> writes:
>>
>>> What category of person would be the most lucrative to read
>>> the minds of?
>>
>>Poker players.
>
> Yes, that's been mentioned. But how useful would mind-reading be
> to one who knows zilch about poker?
Depends on how mind reading works, one supposes - and one hardly requires
telepathy to cease being one who knows zilch about poker. An hour with a
book will do.
(Dan Simmons has a book where a telepathic protagonist tries poker.
Ur jvaf n qrprag nzbhag bs zbarl, gura trgf gur fuvg xvpxrq bhg bs uvz
ol gubfr rzcyblrq gb znxr fher gur jebat crbcyr qba'g jva.)
David Goldfarb
>Maybe I should just go to Nevada and learn to win at blackjack.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't blackjack dealers play a mechanical
strategy? Reading their minds wouldn't help much. I think they don't
even look at their face-down card until the other players have bet.
Brenda Clough had her protagonist in _How Like a God_ play blackjack in
Atlantic City as a way of gauging how much control he had attained over
his psychic powers, and I always thought that was weird.
--
David Goldfarb |"If I haven't killed you yet, I'll take care of
gold...@ocf.berkeley.edu | it right away."
gold...@csua.berkeley.edu | -- S. P. Somtow
Sean O'Hara
proclaimed...
>
> In article <L1rrD...@kithrup.com>,
> Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
> [Whose minds would be best to read?]
>
> >Maybe I should just go to Nevada and learn to win at blackjack.
>
> Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't blackjack dealers play a mechanical
> strategy? Reading their minds wouldn't help much. I think they don't
> even look at their face-down card until the other players have bet.
> Brenda Clough had her protagonist in _How Like a God_ play blackjack in
> Atlantic City as a way of gauging how much control he had attained over
> his psychic powers, and I always thought that was weird.
If your psychic power is mind-reading, it'd be nearly useless.
Influencing the card shuffle wouldn't be much better since the game
uses a multi-pack shoe -- the amount of planning would be insane.
However, if you can tell what card is going to be dealt next, like in
the psychic experiment Dr. Venkman was performing at the start of
Ghostbusters, you'd be kicked out of the casino for card counting.
David Harmon
<yb...@panix.com> wrote,
>Every major operating system on the net has native IP6 support. It's
>rolling into production right now. It's slow -- but we'll be out of IP4
>addresses in a few years, so there won't be any choice.
Does my Linksys router have a major operating system?
Ben Yalow
>Nate Edel <arch...@sfchat.org> wrote:
>> The built-in search in Vista and Windows 7 is quite good. The
>> original version of search that came with 2000 and XP is useless,
>> and the 3.0 version that XP updated to around the time Vista came
>> out was basically useless too.
>Do these searches pre-index files, like Google or a DBMS, or are they
>like the Unix/Linux "grep" command?
>I've found that for simple searches on modern machines, grep is fast
>enough, even if I'm searching through *all* my files: Decades of
>email, newsgroup postings, and saved web pages.
A medium sized disk on a modern machine is a half-terrabyte one.
Sequential searches through that much data takes a lot of time.
>--
>Keith F. Lynch - http://keithlynch.net/
>Please see http://keithlynch.net/email.html before emailing me.
Ben
Lowell Gilbert
> In <hri3t3$cdb$7...@reader1.panix.com> "Keith F. Lynch" <k...@KeithLynch.net> writes:
>
>>Nate Edel <arch...@sfchat.org> wrote:
>>> The built-in search in Vista and Windows 7 is quite good. The
>>> original version of search that came with 2000 and XP is useless,
>>> and the 3.0 version that XP updated to around the time Vista came
>>> out was basically useless too.
>
>>Do these searches pre-index files, like Google or a DBMS, or are they
>>like the Unix/Linux "grep" command?
>
>>I've found that for simple searches on modern machines, grep is fast
>>enough, even if I'm searching through *all* my files: Decades of
>>email, newsgroup postings, and saved web pages.
>
> A medium sized disk on a modern machine is a half-terrabyte one.
> Sequential searches through that much data takes a lot of time.
I'm with Keith on this one, given some attention in organizing the disk
layout. My disk usage is increasing at nearly the same speed as the
cost of disk storage, but my disk usage of "stuff I actually want to
search against" is growing much more slowly.
Keith F. Lynch
> "Keith F. Lynch" <k...@KeithLynch.net> writes:
>> I've found that for simple searches on modern machines, grep
>> is fast enough, even if I'm searching through *all* my files:
>> Decades of email, newsgroup postings, and saved web pages.
> A medium sized disk on a modern machine is a half-terrabyte one.
> Sequential searches through that much data takes a lot of time.
Presumably if such a disk was anywhere remotely close to full, the
vast majority of the content would be be video. And there's no point
in doing a character string search on video, still pictures, or audio.
Exercise for the student: How long would it take to read a half
terabyte of text? Hint: A terasecond is more than 300 centuries.
Spelling nitpick: Tera is a prefix meaning 10^12 (or sometimes
2^40). Terra is a prefix meaning the Earth.
David V. Loewe, Jr
wrote:
>Keith F. Lynch <k...@keithlynch.net> wrote:
>> Doug Wickstr?m <nims...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> > Be very careful how you answer. The first thing you see if you tell
>> > it to go ahead is "FORMATTING DRIVE C:".
>>
>> Is it usual to keep user data on the same drive as the OS?
>
>Yes. Relatively few people have more than one permanently installed drive.
I guess this confirms that I'm not normal when it comes to computers. My
current box has a 120 GB IDE (boot), a 250 GB IDE and a 750 GB SATA
drive all inside the case...
>The old advice to split that drive up into multple partitions has largely
>disappeared.
>
>Usually, any additional drives will be externals, often slower (unless
>they're eSATA) and used either for backup or for bulk media storage.
...and a 250 GB external (firewire) to boot.
Speaking of which, due to the generosity of some people, I am getting a
new box. Right now the specs are in flux. However, I'd like to lay out
the preliminary specs and ask some questions.
Intel i7-860
MSI P55-GDxx series motherboard (likely a 65, 80 or 85)
4 GB (2 x 2 GB) of DDR3 1600 memory
ATI-based 56xx or 57xx video card with 1 GB video memory
Mid-tower case
500-750 W P/S
IBM KB-5923 keyboard (already have)
Logitech TrackMan Wheel (already have)
Altec/Lansing speakers
And here's where things get sticky...
Do I transfer over my two PATA optical drives (a Sony DVD burner and a
LiteOn DVD reader) or go for one or more SATA DVD-DL drives (one of
which will have to be a burner)? Or perhaps a SATA BluRay reader?
And what "hard drives" to get? Current thinking is an Intel X25-M 80 GB
SSD for the boot drive, adding some flavor of 1+ TB 7200 RPM drive for
data storage and move over the 750 GB SATA drive from the other computer
(with the likelihood of another 1 TB drive before the year is out).
Other possibilities include some sort of RAID 0 array of 7200 RPM drives
as boot.
>> What about user data that the OS maintains for you, such as your address
>> book?
>
>Harder to segregate the working copy, at least in the sense that relatively
>few people would know what "move the user profile" means on a Windows box
>(and even plenty of inexperienced Linux/BSD/whatever users may not realize
>that /home/theiruser is just something specified in /etc/passwd)
--
"Clams on the half shell...and rollerskates."
Bernard Edwards & Nile Rodgers
Keith F. Lynch
> Keith F. Lynch <k...@keithlynch.net> wrote:
>> Doug Wickstr?m <nims...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>> Be very careful how you answer. The first thing you see if you
>>> tell it to go ahead is "FORMATTING DRIVE C:".
>> Is it usual to keep user data on the same drive as the OS?
> Yes. Relatively few people have more than one permanently installed
> drive. The old advice to split that drive up into multple
> partitions has largely disappeared.
Why has that advice largely disappeared? If the drive was split up
into multiple partitions, would formatting drive C: erase all of them?
I'd prefer separate drives anyway. Especially if it's practical to
unplug them before doing something risky. Or better yet, leave them
always unplugged except when they're in use.
Different risks require different precautions. Separate physical
drives guard against disk crashes and "FORMATTING DRIVE C:." A drive
that's not hooked up guards against bugs, malware, or an errant user
command trashing everything. A drive that's not in the machine guards
against your no longer having your files if the machine is stolen. A
drive that's in a different building guards against fire, flood, and
a major theft. A drive that's in a location that can't be traced to
you guards against police seizing everything of yours. A drive that's
buried underground (in a waterproof container, of course) is proof
against nearly everything short of being at ground zero of a nuclear
attack. (And yes, I have at least one thumb drive that's buried
underground, and is more than a mile away from my apartment.)
On the other hand, it's a hassle to keep multiple backups up to date.
And if your files are somehow corrupted without your noticing, your
backups could soon all be of corrupted files.
Then there's the question of whether to encrypt or not. If you do,
what if you lose the key? If you don't, you risk some snoop obtaining
a copy of all your files. Do you write the key down or memorize it?
Each has obvious advantages and disadvantages.
>> What about user data that the OS maintains for you, such as your
>> address book?
> Harder to segregate the working copy, at least in the sense that
> relatively few people would know what "move the user profile" means
> on a Windows box (and even plenty of inexperienced Linux/BSD/
> whatever users may not realize that /home/theiruser is just
> something specified in /etc/passwd)
I'd think you'd want to back up, not move, the user profile.
Windows seems to blur the distinction between system files and user
files. I think that's a bad thing. It means that upgrading or
reinstalling the OS could make your files disappear. And even if you
know about and preserve those files, restoring them on top of a new or
reinstalled OS could corrupt the OS.
It also means that email addresses, web bookmarks, etc., are in a
common location and format making it easy for malware to exploit them.
Keith F. Lynch
> Keith F. Lynch <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
>> What category of person would be the most lucrative to read the
>> minds of?
> People with guilty secrets, vulnerable to blackmail?
I don't claim to be an expert in blackmail, but doesn't it require
evidence? "I know what you did last summer" is a lot less effective
than "I know what you did last summer -- and here are the photos."
> Only I wouldn't do that.
Me neither.
> CEOs of companies that are about to do something astonishing with
> their stock, before even the stockbrokers know about it?
Good choice. And perfectly legal, as it doesn't meet the legal
definition of insider trading.
Nels Satterlund
> On Sat, 01 May 2010 19:54:03 -0700, arch...@sfchat.org (Nate Edel)
> wrote:
>
>> Keith F. Lynch<k...@keithlynch.net> wrote:
>>> Doug Wickstr?m<nims...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>>>> Be very careful how you answer. The first thing you see if you tell
>>>> it to go ahead is "FORMATTING DRIVE C:".
>>>
>>> Is it usual to keep user data on the same drive as the OS?
>>
>> Yes. Relatively few people have more than one permanently installed drive.
>
> I guess this confirms that I'm not normal when it comes to computers. My
> current box has a 120 GB IDE (boot), a 250 GB IDE and a 750 GB SATA
> drive all inside the case...
>
>> The old advice to split that drive up into multple partitions has largely
>> disappeared.
>>
>> Usually, any additional drives will be externals, often slower (unless
>> they're eSATA) and used either for backup or for bulk media storage.
>
> ...and a 250 GB external (firewire) to boot.
>
> Speaking of which, due to the generosity of some people, I am getting a
> new box. Right now the specs are in flux. However, I'd like to lay out
> the preliminary specs and ask some questions.
>
> Intel i7-860
> MSI P55-GDxx series motherboard (likely a 65, 80 or 85)
> 4 GB (2 x 2 GB) of DDR3 1600 memory
> ATI-based 56xx or 57xx video card with 1 GB video memory
> Mid-tower case
> 500-750 W P/S
> IBM KB-5923 keyboard (already have)
> Logitech TrackMan Wheel (already have)
> Altec/Lansing speakers
>
> And here's where things get sticky...
>
> Do I transfer over my two PATA optical drives (a Sony DVD burner and a
> LiteOn DVD reader) or go for one or more SATA DVD-DL drives (one of
> which will have to be a burner)? Or perhaps a SATA BluRay reader?
This is personal preference ... I went with a BR reader and a DL SAT
writer for this system but other I stayed with the PATA DL burner.
> And what "hard drives" to get? Current thinking is an Intel X25-M 80 GB
> SSD for the boot drive, adding some flavor of 1+ TB 7200 RPM drive for
The reviews I read indicate there is some performance decrease with the
X25 80 vs the 160 as they are the same design but with only half the
memory populated in the 80 .. at this point I have neither ... but am
planning to get a 160 eventually
> data storage and move over the 750 GB SATA drive from the other computer
> (with the likelihood of another 1 TB drive before the year is out).
Currently the boot drive is 500GB with an e-SATA 1.5 TB drive attached.
NOt doing much with Video on this system but the e-SATA drive has a
number of backup disk images of varrious laptops and other system.
> Other possibilities include some sort of RAID 0 array of 7200 RPM drives
> as boot.
>
>>> What about user data that the OS maintains for you, such as your address
>>> book?
>>
>> Harder to segregate the working copy, at least in the sense that relatively
>> few people would know what "move the user profile" means on a Windows box
>> (and even plenty of inexperienced Linux/BSD/whatever users may not realize
>> that /home/theiruser is just something specified in /etc/passwd)
Nels
--
Nels E Satterlund I don't speak for the company
Ne...@Starstream.net <-- Use this address please,
My Lurkers motto: I read much better than I type.
Martha Adams
=============================================
> Do I transfer over my two PATA optical drives (a Sony DVD burner and a
> LiteOn DVD reader) or go for one or more SATA DVD-DL drives (one of
> which will have to be a burner)? Or perhaps a SATA BluRay reader?
Could you pull out that HD from your old machine, and install it into
a usb external-drive box? If you don't write to that external HD it
sits there repository for your goodies while you work out how you want
to install them into your new environment.
Titeotwawki -- mha [2010 May 02]
Dorothy J Heydt
Keith F. Lynch <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
>Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
>> Keith F. Lynch <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
>>> What category of person would be the most lucrative to read the
>>> minds of?
>
>> People with guilty secrets, vulnerable to blackmail?
>
>I don't claim to be an expert in blackmail, but doesn't it require
>evidence? "I know what you did last summer" is a lot less effective
>than "I know what you did last summer -- and here are the photos."
>
>> Only I wouldn't do that.
>
>Me neither.
>
>> CEOs of companies that are about to do something astonishing with
>> their stock, before even the stockbrokers know about it?
>
>Good choice. And perfectly legal, as it doesn't meet the legal
>definition of insider trading.
Although it would, if the stockbrokers knew about it, (I mean, if
they knew and attempted to act on their knowledge), but we're
getting in ahead of them here.
Martha Adams
wrote:
> In article <hrhknd$kgu$1...@reader1.panix.com>,
> Keith F. Lynch <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
>> Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
>>> Keith F. Lynch <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
>>>> To make money, it would probably be more useful to read
>>>> stockbrokers' minds.
>>
>>> Or something. If I could read programmers' minds, I could
>>> probably read others', more lucrative.
>>
>> What category of person would be the most lucrative to read
>> the minds of?
>
> People with guilty secrets, vulnerable to blackmail?
>
> Only I wouldn't do that.
>
> CEOs of companies that are about to do something astonishing with
> their stock, before even the stockbrokers know about it?
>
> Maybe I should just go to Nevada and learn to win at blackjack.
============================================
> Maybe I should just go to Nevada and learn to win at blackjack.
Won't they kick you out with a "never return," if you learn to
consistently win at blackjack?
David Loewe, Jr.
<Ne...@starstream.net> wrote:
Thanks for your input.
>On 5/2/2010 1:30 PM, David V. Loewe, Jr wrote:
>> On Sat, 01 May 2010 19:54:03 -0700, arch...@sfchat.org (Nate Edel)
>> wrote:
>>> Keith F. Lynch<k...@keithlynch.net> wrote:
>>>> Doug Wickstr?m<nims...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>>>> Be very careful how you answer. The first thing you see if you tell
>>>>> it to go ahead is "FORMATTING DRIVE C:".
>>>>
>>>> Is it usual to keep user data on the same drive as the OS?
>>>
>>> Yes. Relatively few people have more than one permanently installed drive.
>>
>> I guess this confirms that I'm not normal when it comes to computers. My
>> current box has a 120 GB IDE (boot), a 250 GB IDE and a 750 GB SATA
>> drive all inside the case...
>>
>>> The old advice to split that drive up into multple partitions has largely
>>> disappeared.
>>>
>>> Usually, any additional drives will be externals, often slower (unless
>>> they're eSATA) and used either for backup or for bulk media storage.
>>
>> ...and a 250 GB external (firewire) to boot.
>>
>> Speaking of which, due to the generosity of some people, I am getting a
>> new box. Right now the specs are in flux. However, I'd like to lay out
>> the preliminary specs and ask some questions.
>>
>> Intel i7-860
>> MSI P55-GDxx series motherboard (likely a 65, 80 or 85)
>ASRock P55 PRO
No provision for overclocking.
>> 4 GB (2 x 2 GB) of DDR3 1600 memory
>Same
>> ATI-based 56xx or 57xx video card with 1 GB video memory
>NVIDIA GeForce 9600 GSO 512 (Cuz I'm cheap)
I'm not (if I were, I'd probably step down to an i5 first). I also want
a Gig of video memory. Finally, I'm an ATI kind of guy for video.
>> Mid-tower case
>> 500-750 W P/S
>> IBM KB-5923 keyboard (already have)
>> Logitech TrackMan Wheel (already have)
>> Altec/Lansing speakers
>>
>> And here's where things get sticky...
>>
>> Do I transfer over my two PATA optical drives (a Sony DVD burner and a
>> LiteOn DVD reader) or go for one or more SATA DVD-DL drives (one of
>> which will have to be a burner)? Or perhaps a SATA BluRay reader?
>
>This is personal preference ... I went with a BR reader and a DL SAT
>writer for this system but other I stayed with the PATA DL burner.
The thing is that even the cheapest BL reader/DL burner combo would run
at least $80. The two PATA drives are already paid for. It will
probably come down to what the prices are for the other components when
I get them.
>> And what "hard drives" to get? Current thinking is an Intel X25-M 80 GB
>> SSD for the boot drive, adding some flavor of 1+ TB 7200 RPM drive for
>
>The reviews I read indicate there is some performance decrease with the
>X25 80 vs the 160 as they are the same design but with only half the
>memory populated in the 80 .. at this point I have neither ... but am
>planning to get a 160 eventually
160 GB is not an option for me with an SSD (unless I win a lottery). The
kind people supplying the funds will NOT go that high. Hell, none of
them even have an SSD.
I can get an 80 GB Intel made SSD for $180 right now (at Micro Center -
$215 for the A-Data marketed one @ NewEgg). A 160 GB Intel drive would
run $450.
The current (albeit Windows XP) install on the boot drive only consumes
52 GB of HD space. And that is with notorious space hog Abode CS (5+
GB) installed (and Forte Agent, with those huge data files from
Giganews' outlandish retention, takes up another 5+ GB). 80 GB should
be sufficient and the speed should slaughter anything that isn't also an
SSD.
>> data storage and move over the 750 GB SATA drive from the other computer
>> (with the likelihood of another 1 TB drive before the year is out).
>
>Currently the boot drive is 500GB with an e-SATA 1.5 TB drive attached.
> NOt doing much with Video on this system but the e-SATA drive has a
>number of backup disk images of varrious laptops and other system.
I currently have over a TB of data (and some programs)
>> Other possibilities include some sort of RAID 0 array of 7200 RPM drives
>> as boot.
--
"If we follow the advice of these people, we might as well go back
into the cave."
- Hans Bethe
David Loewe, Jr.
wrote:
I have more data than the capacity of any one drive in the current
system.
I AM getting one or more 1 TB (or larger) drives. That should be plenty
of space along with the old 750 GB. The crux of the matter there is -
can I get a lightning fast SSD for the boot drive (80 GB being plenty of
space for that particular usage).
--
"The peak of the [Presidential] campaign happened in Albuquerque, where
a local reporter said to me, "Dr. Commoner, are you a serious candidate
or are you just running on the issues?""
Dr. Barry Commoner
Dorothy J Heydt
Martha Adams <mh...@verizon.net> wrote:
>On Sun, 02 May 2010 02:41:58 +0100, Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com>
>wrote:
>
>> In article <hrhknd$kgu$1...@reader1.panix.com>,
>> Keith F. Lynch <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
>>> Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
>>>> Keith F. Lynch <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
>>>>> To make money, it would probably be more useful to read
>>>>> stockbrokers' minds.
>>>
>>>> Or something. If I could read programmers' minds, I could
>>>> probably read others', more lucrative.
>>>
>>> What category of person would be the most lucrative to read
>>> the minds of?
>>
>> People with guilty secrets, vulnerable to blackmail?
>>
>> Only I wouldn't do that.
>>
>> CEOs of companies that are about to do something astonishing with
>> their stock, before even the stockbrokers know about it?
>>
>> Maybe I should just go to Nevada and learn to win at blackjack.
>
>consistently win at blackjack?
Yeah, probably. I would have to go to one casino after the
other, winning one big hand at each, and then disappear for a
couple of years.
It begins to sound too much like work. So, mind you, does
playing the market, even with telepathy.
Keith F. Lynch
> Keith F. Lynch <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
>> Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
>>> CEOs of companies that are about to do something astonishing with
>>> their stock, before even the stockbrokers know about it?
>> Good choice. And perfectly legal, as it doesn't meet the legal
>> definition of insider trading.
> Although it would, if the stockbrokers knew about it, (I mean,
> if they knew and attempted to act on their knowledge), but we're
> getting in ahead of them here.
Why should stockbrokers care? Insider trading laws are intended to
protect average investors. They only apply to corporate officers,
directors, key employees, people who sign non-disclosure agreements,
and the like. If you're at a restaurant and you overhear two
corporate officers discsussing a stock deal, you're free to act
on that information.
Keith F. Lynch
>> Won't they kick you out with a "never return," if you learn to
>> consistently win at blackjack?
> Yeah, probably. I would have to go to one casino after the
> other, winning one big hand at each, and then disappear for a
> couple of years.
I believe the casinos all share their blacklists.
Dorothy J Heydt
Keith F. Lynch <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
>> Martha Adams <mh...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>> Won't they kick you out with a "never return," if you learn to
>>> consistently win at blackjack?
>
>> Yeah, probably. I would have to go to one casino after the
>> other, winning one big hand at each, and then disappear for a
>> couple of years.
>
>I believe the casinos all share their blacklists.
I'm sure they do. But if I go into one, win a small pile, leave
and go to the next, rinse and repeat, will I have a chance to get
onto anyone's blacklist?
(I should mention that I'm OLD and look it; no one is going to
ask for my ID to prove I'm over 21.)
Lowell Gilbert
> In article <hrlcfm$i6n$4...@reader1.panix.com>,
> Keith F. Lynch <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
>>Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
>>> Martha Adams <mh...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>>> Won't they kick you out with a "never return," if you learn to
>>>> consistently win at blackjack?
>>
>>> Yeah, probably. I would have to go to one casino after the
>>> other, winning one big hand at each, and then disappear for a
>>> couple of years.
>>
>>I believe the casinos all share their blacklists.
>
> I'm sure they do. But if I go into one, win a small pile, leave
> and go to the next, rinse and repeat, will I have a chance to get
> onto anyone's blacklist?
It depends, obviously, on the size of the "small pile."
You rapidly get to what you described earlier as
beginning to "sound too much like work."
Dorothy J Heydt
Yup. Yup, that's what it sounds like.
Philip Chee
> Ben Yalow <yb...@panix.com> wrote:
>> "Keith F. Lynch" <k...@KeithLynch.net> writes:
>>> I've found that for simple searches on modern machines, grep
>>> is fast enough, even if I'm searching through *all* my files:
>>> Decades of email, newsgroup postings, and saved web pages.
>
>> A medium sized disk on a modern machine is a half-terrabyte one.
>> Sequential searches through that much data takes a lot of time.
>
> Presumably if such a disk was anywhere remotely close to full, the
> vast majority of the content would be be video. And there's no point
> in doing a character string search on video, still pictures, or audio.
On the contary, indexing the metadata in video, pictures, and audio
gains importance as your collection grows. Keith, you need to stop
living in the middle ages.
Phil
--
Philip Chee <phi...@aleytys.pc.my>, <phili...@gmail.com>
http://flashblock.mozdev.org/ http://xsidebar.mozdev.org
Guard us from the she-wolf and the wolf, and guard us from the thief,
oh Night, and so be good for us to pass.
[ ]When puns are outlawed only outlaws will have puns.
* TagZilla 0.066.6
Cryptoengineer
> >>> CEOs of companies that are about to do something astonishing with
> >>> their stock, before even the stockbrokers know about it?
> >> Good choice. And perfectly legal, as it doesn't meet the legal
> >> definition of insider trading.
> > Although it would, if the stockbrokers knew about it, (I mean,
> > if they knew and attempted to act on their knowledge), but we're
> > getting in ahead of them here.
>
> Why should stockbrokers care? Insider trading laws are intended to
> protect average investors. They only apply to corporate officers,
> directors, key employees, people who sign non-disclosure agreements,
> and the like. If you're at a restaurant and you overhear two
> corporate officers discsussing a stock deal, you're free to act
> on that information.
I think it would depend on the legal status of mindreading. Is it like
overhearing someone talking out loud in public (probably OK), or is it
like wiretapping or bugging their office (probably not)?
If a practical mindreading technology or talent ever develops, courts
and lawyers will be all over this.
pt
David Harmon
Lynch" <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote,
>Nate Edel <arch...@sfchat.org> wrote:
>> Yes. Relatively few people have more than one permanently installed
>> drive. The old advice to split that drive up into multple
>> partitions has largely disappeared.
>
>Why has that advice largely disappeared?
Because filesystems that can't address a whole large hard drive as a
single partition, or that become hopelessly fragmented and slow when
doing so, have largely disappeared.
David Harmon
djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote,
>I'm sure they do. But if I go into one, win a small pile, leave
>and go to the next, rinse and repeat, will I have a chance to get
>onto anyone's blacklist?
If you can read minds you can leave at the first moment that they become
suspicious of you.
Martha Adams
=============================================
Seems to me, some method to consistently win at Blackjack might be
possible,
but telepathy is a fantasy idea. I'd like to see her do it -- success! If
she did, her story could keep rasff buzzing for weeks.
Titeotwawki -- mha [2010 May 03]
David Friedman
David Harmon <sou...@netcom.com> wrote:
I doubt they try to blacklist everyone who wins substantial amounts.
Their concern is with people who can consistently win at blackjack,
where a sufficiently good player can get a positive expected return.
Doing so requires a particular strategy, one the casino is watching for.
Someone who wins a substantial amount once without using such a strategy
is going to look to them like a random lucky player.
--
http://www.daviddfriedman.com/ http://daviddfriedman.blogspot.com/
Author of
_Future Imperfect: Technology and Freedom in an Uncertain World_,
Cambridge University Press.
David Friedman
"Martha Adams" <mh...@verizon.net> wrote:
> Seems to me, some method to consistently win at Blackjack might be
> possible,
Is possible, although the casinos altered their rules to make it more
difficult.
Michael Benveniste
> Seems to me, some method to consistently win at Blackjack might be
> possible.
For statistically reasonable definitions of "consistently,"
there are several approaches. The first and easiest is to
be the house and set rules which render card counting
unprofitable.
--
Mike Benveniste -- m...@murkyether.com (Clarification Required)
Its name is Public opinion. It is held in reverence. It settles
everything. Some think it is the voice of God. -- Mark Twain
Dorothy J Heydt
Hm. Yes, that would work. Until I encounter some employee
sufficiently sharp that he notices that I pack up and leave at
the moment he becomes suspicious of me.
On the other hand, if when I make the first big pile o' loot, I
hand out one coin/chip/whatever to each passer-by and encourage
them to go bet with it, "maybe the luck will rub off," perhaps
they'll let me hang around for a while to encourage more suckers
to lose some more money.
Joy Beeson
wrote:
> But how useful would mind-reading be
> to one who knows zilch about poker?
Presumably the mind you are reading knows quite a lot.
You can pick up strategy from your opponents.
Joy Beeson
--
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://roughsewing.home.comcast.net/
The above message is a Usenet post.
I don't recall having given anyone permission to use it on a Web site.
Dorothy J Heydt
Joy Beeson <jbe...@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
>On Sun, 2 May 2010 06:31:52 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
>wrote:
>
>> But how useful would mind-reading be
>> to one who knows zilch about poker?
>
>Presumably the mind you are reading knows quite a lot.
>You can pick up strategy from your opponents.
I dunno. There's a big difference between having read the
instructions -- even having the manual open at your elbow -- and
having experience with using the system.
Steve Coltrin
"Keith F. Lynch" <k...@KeithLynch.net> writes:
> Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
>> Keith F. Lynch <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
>>> What category of person would be the most lucrative to read the
>>> minds of?
>
>> People with guilty secrets, vulnerable to blackmail?
>
> I don't claim to be an expert in blackmail, but doesn't it require
> evidence? "I know what you did last summer" is a lot less effective
> than "I know what you did last summer -- and here are the photos."
Indeed, but telepathy would likely tell you where such evidence might
be found. Other methods bouted here seem to require less legwork and
less risk of being shot by a blackmailee who thinks they have nothing
to lose.
--
Steve Coltrin spco...@omcl.org Google Groups killfiled here
"A group known as the League of Human Dignity helped arrange for Deuel
to be driven to a local livestock scale, where he could be weighed."
- Associated Press
Steve Coltrin
David Harmon <sou...@netcom.com> writes:
Does the Eye in the Sky even have a mind to read?
(Note that, as Alan Parsons observes, _it_ can read _your_ mind.)
Keith F. Lynch
> "Keith F. Lynch" <k...@KeithLynch.net> writes:
>> I don't claim to be an expert in blackmail, but doesn't it require
>> evidence? "I know what you did last summer" is a lot less effective
>> than "I know what you did last summer -- and here are the photos."
> Indeed, but telepathy would likely tell you where such evidence
> might be found.
Maybe. Would telepathy just show you what the person was thinking of
at that moment? Or would it allow you to go scrounging through all
his long term memories too?
Also, how likely is it that he would have incriminating photos or
documents anywhere? Why wouldn't he have long since destroyed them,
if they ever existed in the first place?
> Other methods bouted here seem to require less legwork and less risk
> of being shot by a blackmailee who thinks they have nothing to lose.
True.