BOOK BURNERS BASH
frank tymon
Help,
WRITING WITHOUT READERS!
Hitlerian Censorship - Destruction of the books!
The great library at Alexandria was destroyed many years ago. It was a
catastrophe commented on even to this day in our history books. It's
destruction resulted, at least in part, from military sieges the city
faced.
Today another great library is facing destruction. Not from military
sieges, nor from fires, nor Hitlerian book burning.
Apathy.
Project Guntenberg, a library bringing literature from around the world
to all who would access it, is facing an untimely end.
It must not be allowed to happen.
Please, join me in actively soliciting support for a Project that the
world truly needs.
Don't let apathy be more destructive than ever fire or military.
The flames of war destroyed the Library at Alexandria. Let not the
flames of apathy destroy the Gutenberg.
Project Gutenberg must survive and grow. And it shall.
Because you helped.
--
Peace.
Frank Tymon, fr...@qnet.com; URL http://www.av.qnet.com/~frank/
The Angry Editor of Tymon's Tirades & The Quartz Hill ConnXtion,
Publisher, Tymon Publications; Proprietor, TYMON'S TRY-B4-BUY BOOKCLUB
Ulrika O'Brien
frank tymon <fr...@qnet.com> wrote:
>The great library at Alexandria was destroyed many years ago. It was a
>catastrophe commented on even to this day in our history books. It's
>destruction resulted, at least in part, from military sieges the city
>faced.
Hey, here's off-topical laziness, for you, but I'll use as an
excuse the fact that UCI's research library is shut down for
earthquake retrofit. I have this vague memory of reading or
hearing that the actual fate of the scrolls at Alexandria was
to be used as fuel for the Roman baths. Can someone with a better
grip on ancient history than mine confirm or deny?
--Ulrika
--
"Criticism is the only known antidote to error." -- David Brin
Ulrika O'Brien***ulr...@aol.com***caveat lector
Jim Trash
In article <329570...@qnet.com>, frank tymon <fr...@qnet.com> writes
>Help,
So tell me how.
I have a plan to save the library at Alexandria which involves a chair,
some ivory handles and a bit of fancy electronic gadgetry but no
knowledge of what threatens Gutenberg nor how to save it
....
http://www.scream.demon.co.uk Jim Trash
Loren MacGregor
On Fri, 22 Nov 1996 09:19:33 +0000, did frank tymon <fr...@qnet.com>
really say:
>Project Guntenberg, a library bringing literature from around the world
>to all who would access it, is facing an untimely end.
You're not really giving enough information. *Who* is attempting to
dismantle Project Gutenberg? *How* is it specifically endangered?
*What* help is needed? (Disk space? Volunteers? Servers? Cash?)
*Where* should we send requests for information? *When* is this
destruction to take place, or is that as nebulous as your message?
-- LJM
lmac...@greenheart.com / The Churn Works
http://www.metacentre.com/
churn...@metacentre.com
C. Boston Baden
Jim Trash (j...@scream.demon.co.uk) wrote:
: So tell me how.
: I have a plan to save the library at Alexandria which involves a chair,
: some ivory handles and a bit of fancy electronic gadgetry but no
: knowledge of what threatens Gutenberg nor how to save it
An excellent question. I know what the Gutenberg Project is: what's the
threat to it? Is the computer to be dismantled or disconnected? Lack of
volunteers to key in old manuscripts? What?
The Virginia Tech SF project could be considered a Gutenberg-like
undertaking...
--
*ha...@netcom.com* - http://ddb.com/hazel/
Home of Margarita Jell-O, an alcoholic use for lime
jello. Email me w/ "request margarita" as subject or message for recipe.
* Chaz Boston Baden * Science Fiction Resource Guide Maintainer *
*sf...@sflovers.rutgers.edu* http://sflovers.rutgers.edu/Web/SFRG/
Keith Stokes
ha...@netcom.com (C. Boston Baden) wrote:
>An excellent question. I know what the Gutenberg Project is
That puts you one ahead of me.
Keith
David E Romm
In article <574vqe$d...@news.service.uci.edu>, Ulrika O'Brien
<uaob...@uci.edu> wrote:
> frank tymon <fr...@qnet.com> wrote:
>
> >The great library at Alexandria was destroyed many years ago. It was a
> >catastrophe commented on even to this day in our history books. It's
> >destruction resulted, at least in part, from military sieges the city
> >faced.
>
> Hey, here's off-topical laziness, for you, but I'll use as an
> excuse the fact that UCI's research library is shut down for
> earthquake retrofit. I have this vague memory of reading or
> hearing that the actual fate of the scrolls at Alexandria was
> to be used as fuel for the Roman baths. Can someone with a better
> grip on ancient history than mine confirm or deny?
The Library of Alexandria was destroyed because a Roman Emporor decided
that it contained non-Christian tracts. The destruction was a blatant act
of censorship and religious persecution. (Not to mention shifting an
educational center away from a rival city to Rome...)
--
Shockwave radio: Science Fiction/Science Fact
http://www.winternet.com/~romm
"When it comes to the future, it's not what you know that counts. It's what you do when you get there." -- Early Edition
Richard Newsome
ro...@winternet.com (David E Romm) writes:
>
>The Library of Alexandria was destroyed because a Roman Emporor decided
>that it contained non-Christian tracts. The destruction was a blatant act
>of censorship and religious persecution. (Not to mention shifting an
>educational center away from a rival city to Rome...)
Alexandria and no one can even pinpoint the year when it ceased
to be. There are a number of competing theories; the one you cite
is based upon a particular incident about which little is known, and
in which evidently only a small portion of the books were affected,
during a religious-political dispute the precise details of which
evade me at the moment. Equally well attested (which is to say, not
very well at all) is the claim that the library was destroyed by a
Moslem army because the books in it did not agree with the Koran --
and if they did, they were redundant.
Richard Newsome
new...@panix.com
Paul Ciszek
ro...@winternet.com (David E Romm) writes:
>The Library of Alexandria was destroyed because a Roman Emporor decided
>that it contained non-Christian tracts. The destruction was a blatant act
>of censorship and religious persecution. (Not to mention shifting an
>educational center away from a rival city to Rome...)
BZZZZT. Romans destroyed the Library of Alexandria before Christianity
became the offical religion. According to Petr Beckman's _A History of
Pi_, Julius Ceasar helped himself to the bulk of the library during his
occupation of the city in 48 B.C., but the shipment (and possibly the
rest of the library) was burned in the fighting. The city and library
suffered from subsequent (pagan) Roman military actions. Christian
extremists did destroy some books in 391 A.D., and killed Hypatia in
415 A.D., extinguishing Alexandria as a center of learning. The remaining
books were destroyed by Moslems in 646 A.D.
It is very fashionable in Fandom to blame everything on Christians. But
being fashionable does not make a thing true.
Paul Ciszek "When the press is free and every man
able to read, all is safe."
pciszek at nyx dot net --Thomas Jefferson
Steven H Silver
Paul Ciszek wrote:
>
> ro...@winternet.com (David E Romm) writes:
>
> >The Library of Alexandria was destroyed because a Roman Emporor decided
> >that it contained non-Christian tracts. The destruction was a blatant act
> >of censorship and religious persecution. (Not to mention shifting an
> >educational center away from a rival city to Rome...)
>
> BZZZZT. Romans destroyed the Library of Alexandria before Christianity
> became the offical religion. According to Petr Beckman's _A History of
> Pi_, Julius Ceasar helped himself to the bulk of the library during his
> occupation of the city in 48 B.C., but the shipment (and possibly the
> rest of the library) was burned in the fighting. The city and library
> suffered from subsequent (pagan) Roman military actions. Christian
> extremists did destroy some books in 391 A.D., and killed Hypatia in
> 415 A.D., extinguishing Alexandria as a center of learning. The remaining
> books were destroyed by Moslems in 646 A.D.
Thank youfor playing, partial credit is awarded. Actually. The exact
date of the destruction of the Library is unknown, although all of the
dates you mentioned have been suggested by scholars. Others believe it
was destroyed be in the sixth century by Byzantine troops. It was
probably destroyed over several years by several different culprits.
--
Steven H
Silver
silv...@earthlink.net
http://www.sfsite.com/~silverag/index.html
Harry Turtledove Bibliography, Jewish SF, Chicago SF, Debut SF, Book
Reviews
-----------------
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4208/index.html
Medieval History Bibliographies, Chicago, Random Links
Rob Hansen
>Paul Ciszek wrote:
>>
>> ro...@winternet.com (David E Romm) writes:
>>
>> >The Library of Alexandria was destroyed because a Roman Emporor decided
>> >that it contained non-Christian tracts. The destruction was a blatant act
>> >of censorship and religious persecution. (Not to mention shifting an
>> >educational center away from a rival city to Rome...)
>>
>> BZZZZT. Romans destroyed the Library of Alexandria before Christianity
>> became the offical religion. According to Petr Beckman's _A History of
>> Pi_, Julius Ceasar helped himself to the bulk of the library during his
>> occupation of the city in 48 B.C., but the shipment (and possibly the
>> rest of the library) was burned in the fighting. The city and library
>> suffered from subsequent (pagan) Roman military actions. Christian
>> extremists did destroy some books in 391 A.D., and killed Hypatia in
>> 415 A.D., extinguishing Alexandria as a center of learning. The remaining
>> books were destroyed by Moslems in 646 A.D.
>
>Thank youfor playing, partial credit is awarded. Actually. The exact
>date of the destruction of the Library is unknown, although all of the
>dates you mentioned have been suggested by scholars. Others believe it
>was destroyed be in the sixth century by Byzantine troops. It was
>probably destroyed over several years by several different culprits.
>--
I figure it was censored away to nothing by sucessive waves of the
contemporary version of the politically correct removing what they
found offensive until only the equivalent of the Dick and Jane books
were left.
Rob Hansen
================================================
My Home Page: http://www.fiawol.demon.co.uk/rob/
Feminists Against Censorship:
http://www.fiawol.demon.co.uk/FAC/
Jo Walton
In article <57gnqd$n...@nyx10.cs.du.edu>
pci...@nyx10.cs.du.edu "Paul Ciszek" writes:
Christian
> extremists did destroy some books in 391 A.D., and killed Hypatia in
> 415 A.D., extinguishing Alexandria as a center of learning.
They scraped her to death with oyster shells, which is a rather bizarre
martyrdom for a pagan female mathematician and philosopher who deserves
to be rather better remembered than she is. I've called one of my hard
drives after her in a rather feeble attempt at remembrance. :]
(And while you may be right about the Library, nobody knows for sure.)
--
Jo J...@kenjo.demon.co.uk
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
- - I kissed a kif at Kefk - -
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Chuck Lipsig
Ulrika O'Brien <uaob...@uci.edu> wrote:
>frank tymon <fr...@qnet.com> wrote:
>>The great library at Alexandria was destroyed many years ago. It was a
>>catastrophe commented on even to this day in our history books. It's
>>destruction resulted, at least in part, from military sieges the city
>>faced.
>Hey, here's off-topical laziness, for you, but I'll use as an
>excuse the fact that UCI's research library is shut down for
>earthquake retrofit. I have this vague memory of reading or
>hearing that the actual fate of the scrolls at Alexandria was
>to be used as fuel for the Roman baths. Can someone with a better
>grip on ancient history than mine confirm or deny?
That's likely a myth. Indeed, the destruction of the Alexandrian library
was really of secondary importance at the time. Indeed, intellectual life
in Alexandria flourished for sometime afterward.
What happened was that the librarian, Hypatia, was the victim of a
political assassination. She had supported the civil, secular authorities
against the encroachments of the then Bishop of Alexandria. The Bishop
found it advisable to get her out of the way -- and it worked as he gained
power over the next decade.
Source: _Hypatia of Alexandria_ by Maria Dzielska, Translated by F. Lyra.
(Harvard University Press, 1995). A fascinating little book.
Chuck Lipsig lip...@atlantic.net Gainesville, FL
I can only do three things at once -- and this is the third.
bri...@aol.com
Here's the appeal as it was run in "The Scout Report".
[snip snip]
> General Interest
> ----------------
>
> 9. Project Gutenberg Appeal
> http://www.promo.net/pg/nl/pgny_nov96.html
> Project Gutenberg
> http://www.promo.net/pg
>
> The Gutenberg etext archive's creator, Michael Hart, has issued a plea
to
> the Internet community for support now that both the University of
Illinois
> and Benedictine University have ceased supporting the project. Project
> Gutenberg, begun in 1971, is an electronic collection of literary works
> from Cicero's Orations to the complete works of Shakespeare to
Zitkala-Sa's
> Old Indian Legends to selections from Edith Warton. All told, Gutenberg
has
> just released the 700th series and all texts are freely accessible from
> servers in five different countries or available for purchase in CD-ROM
> format. Each text is contributed by a corps of volunteers including
> individuals who enter, proofread and are responsible for the final
editing.
> Texts are available via author or title in uncompressed and compressed
> format for your reading and bandwidth pleasure. [ATW]
[snip snip]
Basically, all public funding for the Gutenberg project has been cut. It's
not book-burning per se, -- the projects major supporters have merely
declared victory and gone home -- but it is nonetheless a grave blow to a
venerable 'net institution.
--Brian McNett
----------------------------------------------------------
| Brian McNett e-mail: <bri...@aol.com>
| Editor: MycoInfo <bmc...@linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us>
| Promoting Mycology in the Online Community
Elspeth Kovar Burgess
Jo Walton wrote:
> In article <57gnqd$n...@nyx10.cs.du.edu>
> pci...@nyx10.cs.du.edu "Paul Ciszek" writes:
> Christian
> > extremists did destroy some books in 391 A.D., and killed Hypatia in
> > 415 A.D., extinguishing Alexandria as a center of learning.
>
> They scraped her to death with oyster shells, which is a rather bizarre
> martyrdom for a pagan female mathematician and philosopher who deserves
> to be rather better remembered than she is. I've called one of my hard
> drives after her in a rather feeble attempt at remembrance. :]
Anne McCaffery named one of her characters after Hypatia, or rather, had
the child's parents do so. It was made quite clear who Hypatia was, and
why it was an honor to be thus named. Of course, while I remember the
character, I've totally forgotten the name of the book!
Elspeth
--
Thank you for participating in my Learning Experience!
bri...@aol.com
Robert A. Woodward
In article <329F90...@radix.net>, Elspeth Kovar Burgess
<ebur...@radix.net> wrote:
Probably not McCaffrey. This was in _The Ship Who Searched_ by Anne
McCaffrey and Mercedes Lackey. I believe that Lackey did most (virtually
all) of the writing.
Garth Spencer
Draely Bevoled,
I thought the Library of Alexandria was destroyed *several*times*,
including each and all of the incidents thus far mentioned: Caesar's
invasion of Egypt, the first reported redneck Christians in Egypt, the
Islamic conquest of Egypt and first reported recycling of combustibles
for hot tub fuel, etc., etc. Consequently I must assume the existence of a
longstanding Egyptian tradition of rebuilding the Library acquisitions
after major losses.
If it were an enduring conspiracy, we could use a few of their branch
offices on this continent.
--
Garth Spencer
hrot...@vcn.bc.ca
Box 15335, Vancouver, BC CANADA V6B 5B1 tel (604) 321-7962
http://www.vcn.bc.ca/sig/rsn - The Royal Swiss Navy
Archives and adventures in SF fandom
Richard Newsome
hrot...@vcn.bc.ca (Garth Spencer) writes:
>Consequently I must assume the existence of a
>longstanding Egyptian tradition of rebuilding the Library acquisitions
>after major losses.
I'm sure they did the best they could, but you really couldn't
replace those things in those days. What is generally thought to
have occurred, rightly or wrongly, is that the size of the collection
shrank after each round of depredations, until eventually there wasn't
anything left.
The materials they had were quite rare, for the most part. Common
books could be replaced at a little expense, but they would have
found it impossible to locate and make a copy of most items once
they were lost. In fact, library acquisitions are a lot like that
today, in spite of all the advantages we enjoy of modern technology
etc. Mostly because politicians and voters would rather spend a
billion dollars on a new football stadium than on books, which
they basically fear as some sort of deep magic beyond their
comprehension. The Romans, of course, were spending all their
public works money on new stadiums too while their libraries were
in decline. We see the results today: 99% of the knowledge they
had is lost.
Richard Newsome
new...@panix.com
Elspeth Kovar Burgess
Robert A. Woodward wrote:
Thanks - I knew it was of the _Ship Who. . ._ series, but had forgotten
that that's the group that usually had co-authors. *Now* I have to go
read some of Lackey's own work.
>From what I've seen on the shelves, I gather that McCaffery has gone
back to doing her own writing?
Chuck Lipsig
new...@panix.com (Richard Newsome) wrote:
Except that the information today is much more easily reproduced and
distributed. The irony of the above paragraph, at least here in
Gainesville, is that when the football team at UF runs a profit -- which is
frequent -- they have sometimes given grants to the UF libraries. When I
worked there in 1988-90, there was a $2 million grant from the football
team. I think there's been a similar grant since, but I can't say for
certain.
Mind you, we may lose 99% of information today -- but that's just from
the sheer volume of it. And some of it is on rather temporary media. For
example, if anyone were to read this post more than six months from now --
let alone 1,000+ years from now, I would be rather surprised.
Chuck Lipsig lip...@atlantic.net Gainesville, FL
Former librarian; present bibliophile; football fan forever.
Bill Higgins
In article <57uhq8$i...@news.atlantic.net>, lip...@atlantic.net (Chuck Lipsig) writes:
> Mind you, we may lose 99% of information today -- but that's just from
> the sheer volume of it. And some of it is on rather temporary media. For
> example, if anyone were to read this post more than six months from now --
> let alone 1,000+ years from now, I would be rather surprised.
Send Chuck e-mail if you do. Maybe we can keep surprising him!
Submarines, flying boats, robots, talking Bill Higgins
pictures, radio, television, bouncing radar Fermilab
vibrations off the moon, rocket ships, and
atom-splitting-- all in our time. But nobody HIG...@FNAL.FNAL.GOV
has yet been able to figure out a music SPAN: 43009::HIGGINS
holder for a marching piccolo player.
--Meredith Willson, 1948
Bill Higgins
In article <57gnqd$n...@nyx10.cs.du.edu>, pci...@nyx10.cs.du.edu (Paul Ciszek) writes:
> ro...@winternet.com (David E Romm) writes:
>
>>The Library of Alexandria was destroyed because a Roman Emporor decided
> became the offical religion.
Allow me to interrupt this scholarly dispute by pointing out
something of interest to many SF readers: the December 1996 issue of
*Wired* has a sixty-page(!) article by Neal Stephenson, author of
*Snowcrash* and *The Diamond Age*, on a project to lay a fiber-optic
submarine cable across most of the world. I found it amusing and
fascinating.
Among other places, Stephenson visits the site of the Library of
Alexandria, and offers his observations.
--
O~~* /_) ' / / /_/ ' , , ' ,_ _ \|/
- ~ -~~~~~~~~~/_) / / / / / / (_) (_) / / / _\~~~~~~~~~~~zap!
/ \ (_) (_) / | \
| | Bill Higgins Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory
\ / Internet: HIG...@FNAL.FNAL.GOV
- - Bitnet: HIGGINS@FNAL
~ SPAN/Hepnet/Physnet: 43009::HIGGINS
Ulrika O'Brien
J...@kenjo.demon.co.uk (Jo Walton) wrote:
>In article <57gnqd$n...@nyx10.cs.du.edu>
> pci...@nyx10.cs.du.edu "Paul Ciszek" writes:
>
> Christian
>> extremists did destroy some books in 391 A.D., and killed Hypatia in
>> 415 A.D., extinguishing Alexandria as a center of learning.
>
>They scraped her to death with oyster shells, which is a rather bizarre
>martyrdom for a pagan female mathematician and philosopher who deserves
>to be rather better remembered than she is. I've called one of my hard
>drives after her in a rather feeble attempt at remembrance. :]
She seems to get remembrance in odd places. Which is to say
I'm fairly certain that there's an American porn actress who
calls herself Hypatia Lee. I don't for a fact know it's an
informed and deliberate reference to the Alexandrian Hypatia,
but wouldn't it be charming if it were?
Chris Jones
In article <1996Dec...@fnald.fnal.gov>, hig...@fnald.fnal.gov (Bill
Higgins) wrote:
> Allow me to interrupt this scholarly dispute by pointing out
> something of interest to many SF readers: the December 1996 issue of
> *Wired* has a sixty-page(!) article by Neal Stephenson, author of
> *Snowcrash* and *The Diamond Age*, on a project to lay a fiber-optic
> submarine cable across most of the world. I found it amusing and
> fascinating.
>
> Among other places, Stephenson visits the site of the Library of
> Alexandria, and offers his observations.
I second the nomination, which was highly enjoyable, but I would point
out that for every lengthy article (and Bury novel, for that matter) we're
that much further from the next _Snow Crash_ or _Diamond Age_. (anybody
heard anything?)
-Chris Jones
Paul Ciszek
lip...@atlantic.net (Chuck Lipsig) writes:
> Mind you, we may lose 99% of information today -- but that's just from
>the sheer volume of it. And some of it is on rather temporary media. For
>example, if anyone were to read this post more than six months from now --
>let alone 1,000+ years from now, I would be rather surprised.
Hell, some of us _deliberately_ lose 99% of information via kill files.
Steven H Silver
Richard Newsome wrote:
> The materials they had were quite rare, for the most part. Common
> books could be replaced at a little expense, but they would have
> found it impossible to locate and make a copy of most items once
> they were lost. In fact, library acquisitions are a lot like that
"Common books" would still have been quite expensive. Remember each
"book" (actually a scroll at this time) had to be produced by hand, from
making the materials to copying each individual letter. According to
calculations I did a few years ago for a later period, a family of four
could literally eat for three years for what an "inexpensive" book would
cost.
Ray Radlein
Ulrika O'Brien wrote:
>
> J...@kenjo.demon.co.uk (Jo Walton) wrote:
> > pci...@nyx10.cs.du.edu "Paul Ciszek" writes:
> >
> > Christian
> >> extremists did destroy some books in 391 A.D., and killed Hypatia in
> >> 415 A.D., extinguishing Alexandria as a center of learning.
> >
> >They scraped her to death with oyster shells, which is a rather bizarre
> >martyrdom for a pagan female mathematician and philosopher who deserves
> >to be rather better remembered than she is. I've called one of my hard
> >drives after her in a rather feeble attempt at remembrance. :]
>
> She seems to get remembrance in odd places. Which is to say
> I'm fairly certain that there's an American porn actress who
> calls herself Hypatia Lee. I don't for a fact know it's an
> informed and deliberate reference to the Alexandrian Hypatia,
> but wouldn't it be charming if it were?
I'm sure that I will probably later deny having this knowledge <g>, but
*yes*, it is informed. It may be her birth name (doubtful),and if so,
well, she obviously didn't choose it; however, she *has* made frequent
references to Hypatia of Alexandria, so one way or another, it is
informed. I'd guess it was deliberate as well. It's not an obvious name
to pluck from thin air, after all.
I've been trying for a couple of days to figure out how to toss this
morsel of knowledge out into infospace, and now you've done it for me.
Thanks!
- Ray R.
--
*********************************************************************
"What are we going to do tonight, Brain?"
"The same thing we do every night, Pinky - try to RULE THE SEVAGRAM!"
Ray Radlein - r...@learnlink.emory.edu
homepage coming soon! wooo, wooo.
*********************************************************************
Stevens R. Miller
Ray Radlein wrote:
> Ulrika O'Brien wrote:
> > J...@kenjo.demon.co.uk (Jo Walton) wrote:
> > > pci...@nyx10.cs.du.edu "Paul Ciszek" writes:
> > > Christian
> > >> extremists did destroy some books in 391 A.D., and killed Hypatia
> > >I've called one of my hard
> > >drives after her in a rather feeble attempt at remembrance. :]
> > I'm fairly certain that there's an American porn actress who
> > calls herself Hypatia Lee.
> ...she obviously didn't choose it; however, she *has* made frequent
> references to Hypatia of Alexandria
She has also made many references to a claim of native-American
ancestry. Having met another woman who made this claim, and who
went by the name, "Hyapatia," I can't help but wonder if the porn
actress is being consistent.
--
WEB PAGE: DIVORCE WITHOUT COURT | Freedom from fear and want.
http://www.users.interport.net/~lex | Freedom of speech and religion.
John T. Costello
Chris Jones <cold...@mail.utexas.edu> wrote in article
<coldjones-021...@slip-g-8.ots.utexas.edu>...
> heard anything.
I beg to disagree- The article shows the real underpinnings of the _Snow
Crash_
universe, and shows the real synchronicity between fiber-optic cables and
the
Library of Alexandria. Don't get me wrong, I await more of his fiction as
much as
anybody, but this is a gem of nonfiction.
JohnC
Steven H Silver
Stevens R. Miller wrote:
>
> Ray Radlein wrote:
>
> > Ulrika O'Brien wrote:
>
> > > J...@kenjo.demon.co.uk (Jo Walton) wrote:
>
> > > I'm fairly certain that there's an American porn actress who
> > > calls herself Hypatia Lee.
>
> > ...she obviously didn't choose it; however, she *has* made frequent
> > references to Hypatia of Alexandria
>
> She has also made many references to a claim of native-American
> ancestry. Having met another woman who made this claim, and who
> went by the name, "Hyapatia," I can't help but wonder if the porn
> actress is being consistent.
I actually lived in the same town as the woman in question. She
occasionally came into the bookstore where I worked. She has said that
Hypatia was her birth name.
Stevens R. Miller
Steven H Silver wrote:
> I actually lived in the same town as the woman in question. She
> occasionally came into the bookstore where I worked. She has said that
> Hypatia was her birth name.
I'm not questioning whether or not it has always been her name.
I'm questioning whether or not she is always consistent about
its origin. On "Geraldo," she was nearly fighting with him for
her right to relate everything she said to her native-American
ancestry. Now I'm just wondering if she is trying to claim a
different or additional affiliation.
Douglas Tricarico
In <coldjones-021...@slip-g-8.ots.utexas.edu>
cold...@mail.utexas.edu (Chris Jones) writes:
>
>In article <1996Dec...@fnald.fnal.gov>, hig...@fnald.fnal.gov
(Bill
>Higgins) wrote:
>
>> Allow me to interrupt this scholarly dispute by pointing out
>> something of interest to many SF readers: the December 1996 issue of
>> *Wired* has a sixty-page(!) article by Neal Stephenson, author of
>> *Snowcrash* and *The Diamond Age*, on a project to lay a fiber-optic
>> submarine cable across most of the world. I found it amusing and
>> fascinating.
>>
>> Among other places, Stephenson visits the site of the Library of
>> Alexandria, and offers his observations.
>
>
>
> I second the nomination, which was highly enjoyable, but I would
point
>out that for every lengthy article (and Bury novel, for that matter)
we're
>that much further from the next _Snow Crash_ or _Diamond Age_.
(anybody
>
> -Chris Jones
I wasn't as captivated by that article as you getlemen seem to be. It
was rather too long and unfocused, and as Stephenson himself points out
(several times!), he isn't a journalist but a "hacker tourist." The
historical stuff was by far the most interesting bits of the article
and I found myself skimming by the time I was halfway through.
Now the David Brin article ("The Transparent Society," an excerpt from
his upcoming book by the same name) is absolutely fascinating.
Doug
Bill Higgins
In article <581erv$h...@dfw-ixnews6.ix.netcom.com>, tr...@ix.netcom.com(Douglas Tricarico) writes:
> In <coldjones-021...@slip-g-8.ots.utexas.edu>
> I wasn't as captivated by that article as you getlemen seem to be. It
> was rather too long and unfocused, and as Stephenson himself points out
> (several times!), he isn't a journalist but a "hacker tourist." The
> historical stuff was by far the most interesting bits of the article
> and I found myself skimming by the time I was halfway through.
De gustibus. Stephenson has discovered, and has coined a name for, a
pleasurable activity that many of us have been engaging in for a long
time. His definition of Hacker Tourism:
"Our method was not exactly journalism nor tourism in the normal
sense but what might be thought of as a new field of human
endeavor called hacker tourism: travel to exotic locations in
search of sights and sensations that only would be of interest to
a geek."
This is something I frequently do with my vacation time. Sure,
visiting an accelerator lab such as CERN or SLAC might count merely as
a "Busman's Holiday" for me, but I've also visited NASA centers,
Lucasfilm, the Soo Locks, the Ackermansion, rocket factories, the
parking lot in Wheaton where Grote Reber built the world's second
radio telescope, and Henry Spencer's office.
So I recognized a kindred spirit in Stephenson's somewhat unfocused
account of his techie meanderings, and enjoyed reading it very much.
I don't think big museums count, as the Air Force Museum or the
Computer Museum are visited by lots of people, and hold interest to
more than just geeks. Tiny, very specialized museums might count.
With the shoe on the other foot, I guess I've given my share of
Fermilab tours to visiting techies, too...
Also, though Stephenson seems to think hacker tourism is new, I can
prove that Charles Babbage engaged in the same activity in the 1820s
(and I've dropped a note to the editors of *Wired* to point this out).
"We don't want to rule the world, | Bill Higgins
we just want to | Fermilab
make it more... interesting." | Internet: hig...@fnal.fnal.gov
--Chris Tucker on techies | Bitnet: Sic transit gloria mundi
Mike Berro
cold...@mail.utexas.edu (Chris Jones) wrote:
> I second the nomination, which was highly enjoyable, but I would point
>out that for every lengthy article (and Bury novel, for that matter) we're
>that much further from the next _Snow Crash_ or _Diamond Age_. (anybody
>heard anything?)
Last I heard, he was working on an original story for an interactive
game that is to come out after the Snow Crash game. I haven't heard
of a release date for the latter yet, so we may be in for a long wait.
---Mike
Ray Radlein
Stevens R. Miller wrote:
>
> Steven H Silver wrote:
>
> > I actually lived in the same town as the woman in question. She
> > occasionally came into the bookstore where I worked. She has said that
> > Hypatia was her birth name.
>
> I'm not questioning whether or not it has always been her name.
> I'm questioning whether or not she is always consistent about
> its origin. On "Geraldo," she was nearly fighting with him for
> her right to relate everything she said to her native-American
> ancestry. Now I'm just wondering if she is trying to claim a
> different or additional affiliation.
I've never heard or read her claiming to have any Greek or Egyptian
ancestry; all she has said, IIRC, is that she is 3/4 Native American in
ancestry. She may or may not be a little too old to have been born
during the mid-sixties "odd name" splooge, which saw young parents
turning away from traditional names like "Jennifer," and opting for
nouns such as "Sunshine" and "Freedom" instead (ObSF: "Chia Pet"?).
Dunno. As I said, she is definitely *aware* of the name, so even if it
was chosen for some other reason (such as?), then her use of it is at
least *informed*.
Richard Brandt
hig...@fnald.fnal.gov (Bill Higgins) wrote:
>De gustibus. Stephenson has discovered, and has coined a name for, a
>pleasurable activity that many of us have been engaging in for a long
>time. His definition of Hacker Tourism:
>
> "Our method was not exactly journalism nor tourism in the normal
> sense but what might be thought of as a new field of human
> endeavor called hacker tourism: travel to exotic locations in
> search of sights and sensations that only would be of interest to
> a geek."
>
>This is something I frequently do with my vacation time. Sure,
>visiting an accelerator lab such as CERN or SLAC might count merely as
>a "Busman's Holiday" for me, but I've also visited NASA centers,
>Lucasfilm, the Soo Locks, the Ackermansion, rocket factories, the
>parking lot in Wheaton where Grote Reber built the world's second
>radio telescope, and Henry Spencer's office.
And in New Orleans, I saw the house where Paul Morphy died! (They
have some restaurant there now...)
--
http://rgfn.epcc.edu/users/af541/virtual.htm
"Torture! Torture! It pleases me!"
Criswell, in Ed Wood's ORGY OF THE DEAD (1966)
mark
In article <32A54B...@learnlink.emory.edu>,
Ray Radlein <r...@learnlink.emory.edu> wrote:
> Stevens R. Miller wrote:
> > Steven H Silver wrote:
> >
> > > I actually lived in the same town as the woman in question. She
> > > occasionally came into the bookstore where I worked. She has said that
> > > Hypatia was her birth name.
> >
> > I'm not questioning whether or not it has always been her name.
> > I'm questioning whether or not she is always consistent about
> > its origin. On "Geraldo," she was nearly fighting with him for
> ancestry; all she has said, IIRC, is that she is 3/4 Native American in
> ancestry. She may or may not be a little too old to have been born
> during the mid-sixties "odd name" splooge, which saw young parents
> turning away from traditional names like "Jennifer," and opting for
> nouns such as "Sunshine" and "Freedom" instead (ObSF: "Chia Pet"?).
Go find an old phone book, and check out the names. Why do you think
the sixties was an "odd name splooge (?)"? I certainly don't remember
"Jennifer" as a big name back then (at least until Donovan did "Jennifer
Juniper")....
Oh, and by the way: do you have something *against* names like Sunshine?
mark, and yes, my eldest daughter *is* named Sunshine, on
her birth certificate....
Ray Radlein
mark wrote:
>
> Ray Radlein <r...@learnlink.emory.edu> wrote:
> > She may or may not be a little too old to have been born
> > during the mid-sixties "odd name" splooge, which saw young parents
> > turning away from traditional names like "Jennifer," and opting for
> > nouns such as "Sunshine" and "Freedom" instead (ObSF: "Chia Pet"?).
> <snip>
> Go find an old phone book, and check out the names. Why do you think
> the sixties was an "odd name splooge (?)"? I certainly don't remember
> "Jennifer" as a big name back then (at least until Donovan did "Jennifer
> Juniper")....
I simply picked "Jennifer" out of thin air as a "normal" name -- the
type that would have elicited no comment of surprise ten years earlier.
If you wish, substitute "Karen," or "Elizabeth," or "Nancy."
> Oh, and by the way: do you have something *against* names like Sunshine?
Donovan also sang "Sunshine Superman," didn't he? :-)
I have nothing against the name "Sunshine," per se. Curiously, everyone
I've ever known who has been named Sunshine has been a stripper; but
that's neither here nor there.
I don't think that the sixties was an odd name splooge; however, I think
that there was an odd name splooge during the sixties, especially among
children born to -- for lack of a more precise word -- hippies.
For what it's worth, I can think of many times and places marked by
spurts of unusual names; the sixties were just the target that most
closely approximated Hyapatia Lee's probable age.
> mark, and yes, my eldest daughter *is* named Sunshine, on
> her birth certificate....
You don't have a son named "Freedom," so you?
David E Romm
In article <1996Dec...@fnald.fnal.gov>, hig...@fnald.fnal.gov (Bill
Higgins) wrote:
> De gustibus. Stephenson has discovered, and has coined a name for, a
> pleasurable activity that many of us have been engaging in for a long
> time. His definition of Hacker Tourism:
>
> "Our method was not exactly journalism nor tourism in the normal
> sense but what might be thought of as a new field of human
> endeavor called hacker tourism: travel to exotic locations in
> search of sights and sensations that only would be of interest to
> a geek."
I wrote a Shockwave play about, among other things, this aspect of
computer communication. I called it "riding the wave". Tapes available.
--
Shockwave radio: Science Fiction/Science Fact
http://www.winternet.com/~romm
FAQ, Distribution Tapes, Top 11 Lists, scripts, sound files, more
Ulrika O'Brien
Steven H Silver <silv...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>"Common books" would still have been quite expensive. Remember each
>"book" (actually a scroll at this time)
If I have the terminology correct, a book on a scroll is still
a book. The term (I believe) for a book that happens to be divided
into discrete pages or quartos bound at one edge and surrounded
by a hard cover is "codex". Just because about the only books
we see these days are formatted as codices doesn't make books
in other formats not books.
Then again, I could, of course, be wrong. I'm falling back
on memories of an art history class...
bri...@aol.com
Here's the appeal as it was run in "The Scout Report".
[snip snip]
> General Interest
> ----------------
>
> 9. Project Gutenberg Appeal
> http://www.promo.net/pg/nl/pgny_nov96.html
> Project Gutenberg
> http://www.promo.net/pg
>
> The Gutenberg etext archive's creator, Michael Hart, has issued a plea
to
> the Internet community for support now that both the University of
Illinois
> and Benedictine University have ceased supporting the project. Project
> Gutenberg, begun in 1971, is an electronic collection of literary works
> from Cicero's Orations to the complete works of Shakespeare to
Zitkala-Sa's
> Old Indian Legends to selections from Edith Warton. All told, Gutenberg
has
> just released the 700th series and all texts are freely accessible from
> servers in five different countries or available for purchase in CD-ROM
> format. Each text is contributed by a corps of volunteers including
> individuals who enter, proofread and are responsible for the final
editing.
> Texts are available via author or title in uncompressed and compressed
> format for your reading and bandwidth pleasure. [ATW]
[snip snip]
Basically, all public funding for the Gutenberg project has been cut. It's
not book-burning per se, -- the projects major supporters have merely
declared victory and gone home -- but it is nonetheless a grave blow to a
venerable 'net institution.
--Brian McNett
----------------------------------------------------------
| Brian McNett e-mail: <bri...@aol.com>
| Editor: MycoInfo <bmc...@linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us>
| Promoting Mycology in the Online Community
bri...@aol.com
Nancy Lebovitz
In article <581erv$h...@dfw-ixnews6.ix.netcom.com>,
Douglas Tricarico <tr...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
>Now the David Brin article ("The Transparent Society," an excerpt from
>his upcoming book by the same name) is absolutely fascinating.
>
by your neighbors would lead to a society you'd want to live in depends
on what their standards are and how much they punish people who break
the standards.
It's a cliche that people move to cities to get away from the lack
of privacy of small-town life.
Of course, in Brin's everyone-watches-everyone world, it's not just
your neighbors--it's the world watching. Maybe this'll slow down
small town oppression, and maybe it means that if the global
consensus is against you, there's no place to hide.
He assumes that constant surveillance means that the police won't
be abusive. Maybe it means that police who are too nice to Those
Who Are Disliked will lose their jobs.
Maybe the snooping of all about all will shake down to a pretty
good world as people learn both about abuses that should be stopped
and about what should be left alone, but I can't believe that the
matter will be as simple as Brin describes it.
--
Nancy Lebovitz (nan...@universe.digex.net)
October '96 calligraphic button catalogue available by email!
bri...@aol.com
bri...@aol.com
Loren MacGregor
On 27 Dec 1996 00:19:14 GMT, did bri...@aol.com really say:
>Here's the appeal as it was run in "The Scout Report".
All right, already! We've gotten the message. There's really no need
to send the same damn message over and over again. In fact, it is
counter-productive; people who might be interested the first time are
likely to get annoyed, then irritated, and so on, the more often they
see the same message repeated.
-- LJM
lmac...@greenheart.com / The Churn Works
http://www.metacentre.com/
churn...@metacentre.com
Robert Sneddon
In article <32c3195b...@snews.zippo.com>
churn...@metacentre.com "Loren MacGregor" writes:
> On 27 Dec 1996 00:19:14 GMT, did bri...@aol.com really say:
>
> >Here's the appeal as it was run in "The Scout Report".
>
> All right, already! We've gotten the message. There's really no need
> to send the same damn message over and over again.
Sorry, Loren, you're going to see it again and again. Welcome to the
new, improved AOL Off-Line Reader - it downloads news and mail, it posts
your messages when you log in, and as an added attraction, it doesn't
erase them afterwards, so it posts them *again* next time you log in, ad
nauseam.
I'm not kidding - they're working the bugs out of it, but I got 24
identical replies to one posting on alt.peeves over a period of a week,
and that was from a Net-savvy guy working at AOL. Heaven help us if this
thing escapes into the wild...
--
.sigQuiz: Find an English word 15 letters long that has only 4 different
letters in it (.e.g. "banana" has 6 letters, but only "b", "a" and "n" =
only three different letters). No proper names, no foreign imports.
Answer on http://www.ibfs.demon.co.uk/nojay/quiz3.htm (real soon now)
Robert (nojay) Sneddon
Patterner
no...@ibfs.demon.co.uk (Robert Sneddon) wrote:
>In article <32c3195b...@snews.zippo.com>
> churn...@metacentre.com "Loren MacGregor" writes:
>
>> On 27 Dec 1996 00:19:14 GMT, did bri...@aol.com really say:
>>
> >>Here's the appeal as it was run in "The Scout Report".
>>
>> All right, already! We've gotten the message. There's really no need
>> to send the same damn message over and over again.
>
> Sorry, Loren, you're going to see it again and again. Welcome to the
>new, improved AOL Off-Line Reader - it downloads news and mail, it posts
>your messages when you log in, and as an added attraction, it doesn't
>erase them afterwards, so it posts them *again* next time you log in, ad
>nauseam.
The "new, improved" *Beta* AOL Off-Line Reader for Mac. People who have
trouble with beta software should stop using it for that function and file
a bug report.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marilee J. Layman Co-Leader, The Other*Worlds*Cafe
patt...@aol.com A Science Fiction Discussion Group
Web site: http://www.suba.com/~janice
AOL keyword: FR > Science Fiction > The Other*Worlds*Cafe (listbox)
Loren MacGregor
On Fri, 27 Dec 96 19:50:47 GMT, did no...@ibfs.demon.co.uk (Robert
Sneddon) really say:
>In article <32c3195b...@snews.zippo.com>
> churn...@metacentre.com "Loren MacGregor" writes:
>
>> On 27 Dec 1996 00:19:14 GMT, did bri...@aol.com really say:
>>
>> >Here's the appeal as it was run in "The Scout Report".
>>
>> All right, already! We've gotten the message. There's really no need
>> to send the same damn message over and over again.
>
> Sorry, Loren, you're going to see it again and again. Welcome to the
>new, improved AOL Off-Line Reader - it downloads news and mail, it posts
>your messages when you log in, and as an added attraction, it doesn't
>erase them afterwards, so it posts them *again* next time you log in, ad
>nauseam.
Oh, wonderful. What a boon to humanity! Almost as good as
Compuserve, a system to which I can telnet but which otherwise grants
me no access. Foo.
Loren MacGregor
On Sun, 29 Dec 1996 00:09:47 GMT, did churn...@metacentre.com (Loren
MacGregor) really say:
>On Fri, 27 Dec 96 19:50:47 GMT, did no...@ibfs.demon.co.uk (Robert
>Sneddon) really say:
>
>> Sorry, Loren, you're going to see it again and again. Welcome to the
>>new, improved AOL Off-Line Reader - it downloads news and mail, it posts
>>your messages when you log in, and as an added attraction, it doesn't
>>erase them afterwards, so it posts them *again* next time you log in, ad
>>nauseam.
>
>I note with chagrin that something similar has been happening with my
>own messages since I installed "Netscape 4.0," aka "Netscape
>Communicator." Damn.
Jumped to a conclusion too fast! When I started noticing duplicate
messages from Alan B, Fiona and Ulrika, I went back and read the
headers. All the duplicate messages come from the I-Star news service
in Vancouver, B.C. I sent them a note asking them to check into it.
Loren MacGregor
> Sorry, Loren, you're going to see it again and again. Welcome to the
>new, improved AOL Off-Line Reader - it downloads news and mail, it posts
>your messages when you log in, and as an added attraction, it doesn't
>erase them afterwards, so it posts them *again* next time you log in, ad
>nauseam.
I note with chagrin that something similar has been happening with my
own messages since I installed "Netscape 4.0," aka "Netscape
Communicator." Damn.
-- LJM
Rob Hansen
>On Sun, 29 Dec 1996 00:09:47 GMT, did churn...@metacentre.com (Loren
>MacGregor) really say:
>
>>On Fri, 27 Dec 96 19:50:47 GMT, did no...@ibfs.demon.co.uk (Robert
>>Sneddon) really say:
>>
>>> Sorry, Loren, you're going to see it again and again. Welcome to the
>>>new, improved AOL Off-Line Reader - it downloads news and mail, it posts
>>>your messages when you log in, and as an added attraction, it doesn't
>>>erase them afterwards, so it posts them *again* next time you log in, ad
>>>nauseam.
>>
>>I note with chagrin that something similar has been happening with my
>>own messages since I installed "Netscape 4.0," aka "Netscape
>>Communicator." Damn.
>
>Jumped to a conclusion too fast! When I started noticing duplicate
>messages from Alan B, Fiona and Ulrika, I went back and read the
>headers. All the duplicate messages come from the I-Star news service
>in Vancouver, B.C. I sent them a note asking them to check into it.
>
Yeah, it certainly isn't Netscape 4.0 since I don't have this and my
own messages have started duplicating in the past day or so. In fact
more than 50% of the messages I downloaded from rasff today were posts
I'd already received yesterday. Let's hope this is just I-Star, and
that they act on yr email.
Rob Hansen
================================================
My Home Page: http://www.fiawol.demon.co.uk/rob/
Feminists Against Censorship:
http://www.fiawol.demon.co.uk/FAC/