American accents
Paul Dormer
was asked was is it getting easier for him to do an American accent in
House. His reply was that some things get easier the more you do them,
but not speaking with an American accent.
So, I want to know, if doing an American accent is such hard work, why do
Americans persist in using them?
Joe Ellis
p...@pauldormer.cix.co.uk (Paul Dormer) wrote:
Well, obviously, it's because we're better at speaking English. <<grin>>
--
Evaluating all GUIs by the example of Windows is like evaluating all cars
by the example of Yugos.
Kip Williams
The other Americans will make fun of me if I don't, and I have a
desperate need to belong.
Kip W
Matthew B. Tepper
letters to be typed in
news:memo.2006021...@pauldormer.compulink.co.uk:
Just to cheese off you Brits. ;--)
--
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Paul Dormer
oyş@earthlink.net (Matthew B. Tepper) wrote:
> *From:* "Matthew B. Tepper" <oyş@earthlink.net>
> *Date:* Wed, 15 Feb 2006 15:51:28 GMT
>
> p...@pauldormer.cix.co.uk (Paul Dormer) appears to have caused the
> following letters to be typed in
> news:memo.2006021...@pauldormer.compulink.co.uk:
>
> > I was reading an interview with Hugh Laurie and one of the questions
> > he was asked was is it getting easier for him to do an American
> > accent in House. His reply was that some things get easier the more
> > you do them, but not speaking with an American accent.
> >
> > So, I want to know, if doing an American accent is such hard work,
> > why do Americans persist in using them?
>
> Just to cheese off you Brits. ;--)
>
You mean you speak properly when there are no English around?
That doesn't surprise me. I remember the first time I went to Norway and
discovered Norwegians really do speak in a sing-song type of voice. I
mentioned this to a friend when I got home. He reckoned they only do it
when they see tourists around.
Paul Dormer
ki...@comcast.net (Kip Williams) wrote:
> *From:* Kip Williams <ki...@comcast.net>
> *Date:* Wed, 15 Feb 2006 10:30:57 -0500
But then again, I've had American women telling me that they find the
English accent sexy.
First visit to the US, 1980 to go to Noreascon 2, I travelled around the
country afterwards with a couple of English friends. One restaurant we
ate, the waitress insisted on hanging around our table, just to hear us
speak.
David Dyer-Bennet
There must be some confusion here. Americans don't have accents; at
least not midwesterners.
:-) :-) :-)
Often accents other than ones native one require mouth and tongue
positions one isn't used to, so there'll be considerable initial
muscle toning required before it becomes comfortable. If he doesn't
find it ever becomes easy, I guess the problem isn't just the simple
sounds; maybe it's more with remembering/figuring out what to do.
I'm very bad with accents. My father was born in England, raised in
England, Canada, Germany, and the US(California), then did his
graduate degree at Harvard. And I lived mostly in academic
environments as a child, so the other professors and students weren't
all from the same area. Except for the largest accent groups
("southern", for example), I never really got the idea that how people
talked was any clue about the people; it just seemed to me that
everybody talked a bit different. I've gotten somewhat better as I
grew up, but I'm no good at hearing or identifying or especially
producing accents.
--
David Dyer-Bennet, <mailto:dd...@dd-b.net>, <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/>
RKBA: <http://noguns-nomoney.com/> <http://www.dd-b.net/carry/>
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David Dyer-Bennet
> In article <5vqdnSlyxM6w1G7e...@comcast.com>,
> ki...@comcast.net (Kip Williams) wrote:
>
> > *From:* Kip Williams <ki...@comcast.net>
> > *Date:* Wed, 15 Feb 2006 10:30:57 -0500
> >
> > Paul Dormer wrote:
> > > I was reading an interview with Hugh Laurie and one of the questions
> > > he was asked was is it getting easier for him to do an American
> > > accent in House. His reply was that some things get easier the more
> > > you do them, but not speaking with an American accent.
> > >
> > > So, I want to know, if doing an American accent is such hard work,
> > > why do Americans persist in using them?
> >
> > The other Americans will make fun of me if I don't, and I have a
> > desperate need to belong.
> >
>
> But then again, I've had American women telling me that they find the
> English accent sexy.
That's a fairly common reaction, too. Despite people with English
accents always being villains in the movies and television :-).
Paul Dormer
wrote:
> p...@pauldormer.cix.co.uk (Paul Dormer) writes:
>
> > In article <5vqdnSlyxM6w1G7e...@comcast.com>,
> > ki...@comcast.net (Kip Williams) wrote:
> >
> > > *From:* Kip Williams <ki...@comcast.net>
> > > *Date:* Wed, 15 Feb 2006 10:30:57 -0500
> > >
> > > Paul Dormer wrote:
> > > > I was reading an interview with Hugh Laurie and one of the
> > > > questions he was asked was is it getting easier for him to do an
> > > > American accent in House. His reply was that some things get
> > > > easier the more you do them, but not speaking with an American
> > > > accent.
> > > >
> > > > So, I want to know, if doing an American accent is such hard
> > > > work, why do Americans persist in using them?
> > >
> > > The other Americans will make fun of me if I don't, and I have a
> > > desperate need to belong.
> > >
> >
> > But then again, I've had American women telling me that they find the
> > English accent sexy.
>
> That's a fairly common reaction, too. Despite people with English
> accents always being villains in the movies and television :-).
Could the two be related?
Paul Dormer
wrote:
> p...@pauldormer.cix.co.uk (Paul Dormer) writes:
>
> > I was reading an interview with Hugh Laurie and one of the questions
> > he was asked was is it getting easier for him to do an American
> > accent in House. His reply was that some things get easier the more
> > you do them, but not speaking with an American accent.
> >
> > So, I want to know, if doing an American accent is such hard work,
> > why do Americans persist in using them?
>
> There must be some confusion here. Americans don't have accents; at
> least not midwesterners.
>
> :-) :-) :-)
>
We are much more conscious of accents in the UK, where the accent is often
used as a pointer towards status, class, and geographical origin. So
here, everyone speaks with an accent. (Once, when in Romania, I was
introduced to an English teacher (i.e. a Romanian who taught English) and
he spoke with the nearest to accentless English I've ever heard, and it
sounded very odd.)
> Often accents other than ones native one require mouth and tongue
> positions one isn't used to, so there'll be considerable initial
> muscle toning required before it becomes comfortable. If he doesn't
> find it ever becomes easy, I guess the problem isn't just the simple
> sounds; maybe it's more with remembering/figuring out what to do.
>
I've heard that this is why the Indian accent sounds so strange. Indian
languages have tongue positions for consonants that English doesn't use
and Indians substitute their consonants for the English ones.
> I'm very bad with accents.
Same here. As I said recently, I spent nearly twenty years from the age
of four living on the fringes of Geordieland and never lost my London
accent.
Brian Siano
American work ethic.
David Dyer-Bennet
Yes, I guess they could. "Bad boys" and all that, at a very different
level.
Kip Williams
A real American accent can be a novelty, especially if you've only been
exposed to the crazy fake ones that can be heard on UK television programs.
Kip W
Andrew Stephenson
Dyer-Bennet" writes:
> p...@pauldormer.cix.co.uk (Paul Dormer) writes:
>
> > But then again, I've had American women telling me that they find the
> > English accent sexy.
>
> That's a fairly common reaction, too. Despite people with English
> accents always being villains in the movies and television :-).
Everyone knows the Ancient Romans spoke British. As does Ghod.
Now and then, people with keen ears for certain accents tell (hm,
sometimes "accuse") me of speaking with a trace USian accent -- a
relic of time in Venezula amongst many USians until age 9. After
half a century, things are just about straightened out.
OTOH some folk never seem to catch accents. Maybe it's a mindset
thing: past a certain age, that sense of identity gets locked-in.
--
Andrew Stephenson
Dan Goodman
> I was reading an interview with Hugh Laurie and one of the questions
> he was asked was is it getting easier for him to do an American
> accent in House. His reply was that some things get easier the more
> you do them, but not speaking with an American accent.
Offhand, I'd say that would depend on _which_ American accent.
Educated at Eton, according to the Internet Movie Data Base: so his
normal speech is probably non-rhotic (that is, not pronouncing the r in
"car" for example.) He would find a _lowerclass_ New York City accent
relatively easily; there, the lower you are in the class structure, the
less likely you are to pronounce such r's.
Note: If he doesn't realize there's more than one American accent,
he'll probably _really_ have trouble.
> So, I want to know, if doing an American accent is such hard work,
> why do Americans persist in using them?
Serious answer to a non-serious question: Your own way of speaking is
always easier, since it's more natural.
--
Dan Goodman
All political parties die at last of swallowing their own lies.
John Arbuthnot (1667-1735), Scottish writer, physician.
Journal http://dsgood.livejournal.com
Clutterers Anonymous unofficial community
http://community.livejournal.com/clutterers_anon/
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Links http://del.icio.us/dsgood
Mark Atwood
>
> A real American accent can be a novelty, especially if you've only
> been exposed to the crazy fake ones that can be heard on UK television
> programs.
It took me the longest time to recognize fake USian accents as
performed by UKian actors. I always just thought they were more
UKian accents...
--
Mark Atwood When you do things right, people won't be sure
m...@mark.atwood.name you've done anything at all.
http://mark.atwood.name/ http://www.livejournal.com/users/fallenpegasus
Mark Atwood
>
> OTOH some folk never seem to catch accents. Maybe it's a mindset
> thing: past a certain age, that sense of identity gets locked-in.
My accent drifts to match the locality, over a few months.
I lived from age 6 to 13 in the US South, and when I speak to someone
with a southern accent, my own old one starts showing up almost
immediately.
Max
> It took me the longest time to recognize fake USian accents as
> performed by UKian actors. I always just thought they were more
You know it goes both ways, right? I don't think I've ever heard a
convincing English accent by an American in anything I've watched. And,
weirdly, when they get English people in US programmes they encourage
them to use the odd fake accent, too! The girl who played fiancee to
Ross in Friends is an example I recall particularly well but I'm sure it
wasn't the only one.
Max
Paul Dormer
dsg...@iphouse.com (Dan Goodman) wrote:
> Paul Dormer wrote:
>
> > I was reading an interview with Hugh Laurie and one of the questions
> > he was asked was is it getting easier for him to do an American
> > accent in House. His reply was that some things get easier the more
> > you do them, but not speaking with an American accent.
>
> Offhand, I'd say that would depend on _which_ American accent.
> Educated at Eton, according to the Internet Movie Data Base: so his
> normal speech is probably non-rhotic (that is, not pronouncing the r in
> "car" for example.) He would find a _lowerclass_ New York City accent
> relatively easily; there, the lower you are in the class structure, the
> less likely you are to pronounce such r's.
>
Up to House, he seemed to be making a career out of playing upper class
English twits in Blackadder and Jeeves and Wooster.
> Note: If he doesn't realize there's more than one American accent,
> he'll probably _really_ have trouble.
Well, he did say *an* American accent, not *the* American accent.
Which reminds me of the next part of the interview. He went on to say
that if he has his way, in season 3 House will get hit over the head and
wake up English. He doesn't know if such a neurological condition exists,
but he's sure the producers can find something.
Now, I have at the back of my mind a memory of a news item just like that.
A woman in the US somewhere had a stroke or something and suddenly
started talking with an English accent. What I want to know is which
English accent. I've found the odd thing about Americans trying to do
English accents is that they pick and mix, ending up not sounding like any
Englishman I know.
Paul Dormer
> *From:* Max <m...@hawkida.com>
> *Date:* Wed, 15 Feb 2006 18:55:05 +0000
Wasn't the woman in Frasier another example. I only saw it a couple of
times, but it did sound very odd.
Mark Atwood
>
> Note: If he doesn't realize there's more than one American accent,
> he'll probably _really_ have trouble.
I can identify about a dozen and a half American accents by ear, and
I'm just a random lay speaker, not an expert of any sort on the
subject.
Let's see.
3 different Boston accents
3 different NYC accents
At least one Chicago accent
Minnesota
Midwest / Great Plains
Utah North / Southern Idaho
Utah Central, American Fork area
Utah South, Saint George area
South, Virginia & Carolinas & eastern Tennessee
South, Alabama & Louisiana
(I know they are different, but I cant tell them apart)
South, Rural Mississippi
West Coast
(I cannot tell the difference at all between
California, Oregon, or Washington, accent-wise)
and, of course, Black Urban English
For the most part, US accents are more about geography than class, tho
there are some class marker bits, mainly when there are big cities with
more than one accent.
Matthew B. Tepper
letters to be typed in news:87accsp...@gw.dd-b.net:
> p...@pauldormer.cix.co.uk (Paul Dormer) writes:
>
>> I was reading an interview with Hugh Laurie and one of the questions he
>> was asked was is it getting easier for him to do an American accent in
>> House. His reply was that some things get easier the more you do them,
>> but not speaking with an American accent.
>>
>> So, I want to know, if doing an American accent is such hard work, why
>> do Americans persist in using them?
>
> There must be some confusion here. Americans don't have accents; at
> least not midwesterners.
>
>:-) :-) :-)
>
> Often accents other than ones native one require mouth and tongue
> positions one isn't used to, so there'll be considerable initial muscle
> toning required before it becomes comfortable. If he doesn't find it
> ever becomes easy, I guess the problem isn't just the simple sounds;
> maybe it's more with remembering/figuring out what to do.
I once saw Ronnie Corbett (I almost said "the late," but it was his partner
from "The Two Ronnies," Ronnie Barker, who died recently) show how easy it
was to change from the standard lilting Irish accent to the harsher
Northern Irish one, by tightening the corners of one's mouth back a bit.
> I'm very bad with accents. My father was born in England, raised in
> England, Canada, Germany, and the US(California), then did his graduate
> degree at Harvard. And I lived mostly in academic environments as a
> child, so the other professors and students weren't all from the same
> area. Except for the largest accent groups ("southern", for example), I
> never really got the idea that how people talked was any clue about the
> people; it just seemed to me that everybody talked a bit different.
> I've gotten somewhat better as I grew up, but I'm no good at hearing or
> identifying or especially producing accents.
I only ever met your father once or twice that I recall (for sure, at your
wedding reception), and my recalled impression was of a light Hahvard
accent.
Matthew B. Tepper
following letters to be typed in
> We are much more conscious of accents in the UK, where the accent is
> often used as a pointer towards status, class, and geographical origin.
> So here, everyone speaks with an accent. (Once, when in Romania, I was
> introduced to an English teacher (i.e. a Romanian who taught English)
> and he spoke with the nearest to accentless English I've ever heard, and
> it sounded very odd.)
Well, obviously, he was born Hungarian! And in Romania, no wonder he would
wish to hide that if possible. ;--)
Matthew B. Tepper
following letters to be typed in news:114002...@deltrak.demon.co.uk:
> Everyone knows the Ancient Romans spoke British. As does Ghod.
And did those feet, in ancient times
Walk upon England's mountains green?
Matthew B. Tepper
> In article <45hboaF...@individual.net>, m...@hawkida.com (Max) wrote:
>
>> *From:* Max <m...@hawkida.com>
>> *Date:* Wed, 15 Feb 2006 18:55:05 +0000
>>
>> Mark Atwood wrote:
>>
>> > It took me the longest time to recognize fake USian accents as
>> > performed by UKian actors. I always just thought they were more
>>
>> You know it goes both ways, right? I don't think I've ever heard a
>> convincing English accent by an American in anything I've watched. And,
>> weirdly, when they get English people in US programmes they encourage
>> them to use the odd fake accent, too! The girl who played fiancee to
>> Ross in Friends is an example I recall particularly well but I'm sure
>> it wasn't the only one.
>
> Wasn't the woman in Frasier another example. I only saw it a couple of
> times, but it did sound very odd.
I was under the impression that Jane Leeves actually is English. Just
checked IMDb -- born in Ilford, Essex. She wasn't even the only English-
born cast member of "Frasier"; John Mahoney (Marty Crane) is from Lancs.
Steve Glover
Tepper <?@earthlink.net.invalid> writes
>I once saw Ronnie Corbett (I almost said "the late," but it was his partner
>from "The Two Ronnies," Ronnie Barker, who died recently)
It always seems to be the funnier one who dies first in comedy duos.
>show how easy it
>was to change from the standard lilting Irish accent to the harsher
>Northern Irish one, by tightening the corners of one's mouth back a bit.
Yep. This works for rural Northern Irish to Belfast and for rural West
of Scotland to Glasgow, too. In fact, I'm not sure that it doesn't work
for $RuralHinterland to $MainCity across a lot of the UK.
Steve
[Been busy - about to start new job]
--
Steve Glover, Fell Services Ltd.
Home: steve at fell.demon.co.uk, 0131 551 3835
Away: steve.glover at ukonline.co.uk, 07961 446 902
Bernard Peek
Dormer <p...@pauldormer.cix.co.uk> writes
>Which reminds me of the next part of the interview. He went on to say
>that if he has his way, in season 3 House will get hit over the head and
>wake up English. He doesn't know if such a neurological condition exists,
>but he's sure the producers can find something.
Yes, it's rare but it has been known for head injuries to cause people
to speak with different accents.
>Now, I have at the back of my mind a memory of a news item just like that.
> A woman in the US somewhere had a stroke or something and suddenly
>started talking with an English accent. What I want to know is which
>English accent. I've found the odd thing about Americans trying to do
>English accents is that they pick and mix, ending up not sounding like any
>Englishman I know.
As I've observed before, David Ogden Stiers has a very credible English
accent. That is his native Boston accent would pass for British.
Gwynneth Paltrow also manages very good English accents, of various
flavo(u)rs.
--
Once more in search of cognoscenti
Bernard Peek
b...@shrdlu.com
David Friedman
Mark Atwood <m...@mark.atwood.name> wrote:
> "Dan Goodman" <dsg...@iphouse.com> writes:
> >
> > Note: If he doesn't realize there's more than one American accent,
> > he'll probably _really_ have trouble.
>
> I can identify about a dozen and a half American accents by ear, and
> I'm just a random lay speaker, not an expert of any sort on the
> subject.
>
> Let's see.
>
> 3 different Boston accents
> 3 different NYC accents
> At least one Chicago accent
> Minnesota
> Midwest / Great Plains
> Utah North / Southern Idaho
> Utah Central, American Fork area
> Utah South, Saint George area
> South, Virginia & Carolinas & eastern Tennessee
> South, Alabama & Louisiana
> (I know they are different, but I cant tell them apart)
New Orleans has at least two local white accents, possibly more--I know
a ninth ward accent is distinct, and my memory is that it sounds a bit
like Brooklyn.
When we lived in New Orleans, we hired a local black teenager to cut the
lawn. My wife could not understand him at all; I could manage, but it
was certainly a different version of English than we were used to.
Mike Van Pelt
Matthew B. Tepper <oy兀earthlink.net> wrote:
>I was under the impression that Jane Leeves actually is English. Just
>checked IMDb -- born in Ilford, Essex. She wasn't even the only English-
>born cast member of "Frasier"; John Mahoney (Marty Crane) is from Lancs.
Huh... I didn't know that. Nothing in his speech ever made me
think he was from Britian. Same with Bob Hoskins in "Who Framed
Roger Rabbit", and the actor who plays Apollo in the new
"Battlestar Galactica."
I don't recall hearing "bad American accents" from British
actors, but like someone else in this thread, I may have
not realized they were trying to "talk American", and thought
it was just another British accent.
--
Tagon: "Where's your sense of adventure?" | Mike Van Pelt
Kevyn: "It died under mysterious circumstances. | mvp at calweb.com
My sense of self-preservation found the body, | KE6BVH
but assures me it has an airtight alibi." (schlockmercenary.com)
Kip Williams
> Now, I have at the back of my mind a memory of a news item just like that.
> A woman in the US somewhere had a stroke or something and suddenly
> started talking with an English accent. What I want to know is which
> English accent. I've found the odd thing about Americans trying to do
> English accents is that they pick and mix, ending up not sounding like any
> Englishman I know.
Whenever I've been prepped for a show requiring an accent, we've used
accent tapes and books that deal in either BBC English or a specific
regional accent. With such resources available, I don't know why actors
up in the dizzying reaches of filmmaking can't get an accent correct.
The same thing is available for American regional accents. If it's any
comfort, Americans seldom get those right, either. Voice actor Daws
Butler was a kind of prodigy at it, knowing accents for specific states
and all.
As to whether I, an American, realize that we can't do British accents,
I just have to say that I can tell some of the time, but it's mostly
easier for me to know whether someone's getting my own accent wrong.
I was in a show at CNU where I did a British accent (BBC). Afterwards, a
friend was congratulating me on it, saying she had misgivings at first
because she wasn't sure I could lose my Southern accent. I didn't let
on, but the idea that I have such a thing was one of the biggest ego
blows I'd ever received from a friend. I'm in Massachusetts now, and
take comfort in the fact that nobody here seems to think I talk like a
Virginian. (Though actually, an old-fashioned Virginian accent is kind
of musical and courtly. One of the professors at CNU had one, and it was
always kind of a delight to hear him use it.)
Kip W (containing multitudes)
David Dyer-Bennet
> I only ever met your father once or twice that I recall (for sure, at your
> wedding reception), and my recalled impression was of a light Hahvard
> accent.
The way he talked seemed completely normal to me. :-)
(But then it *would*, of course).
He was born in England (Leicester) in 1915, moved to Canada shortly
after WWI, moved down to California at some point, spent at least two
highschool years in Germany, spent a couple of years at a fancy
private school (no longer extant) (hmm, I think that was before
Germany), went to UC Berkeley (graduated 1936), got his master's
degree there, then out to Harvard for his PhD. So, if your accent
gets modified by everywhere you live at least while young....
Matthew B. Tepper
following letters to be typed in news:ddfr-F4A0A1.11442715022006
@news.isp.giganews.com:
When I flew to Boskone in 1970, I was a little congested, and my ears did
not pop for some time after descent. I was temporarily hard of hearing,
and the policeman from whom I asked directions spoke in a dialect I had
then not yet heard, probably Southie, so it took a while before I could
puzzle out his response.
Matthew B. Tepper
letters to be typed in news:43f384b7$0$98491$d36...@news.calweb.com:
> In article <Xns976B73FA417...@207.217.125.201>,
> Matthew B. Tepper <oy兀earthlink.net> wrote:
>>I was under the impression that Jane Leeves actually is English. Just
>>checked IMDb -- born in Ilford, Essex. She wasn't even the only English-
>>born cast member of "Frasier"; John Mahoney (Marty Crane) is from Lancs.
>
> Huh... I didn't know that. Nothing in his speech ever made me think he
> was from Britian. Same with Bob Hoskins in "Who Framed Roger Rabbit",
> and the actor who plays Apollo in the new "Battlestar Galactica."
Mahoney seems to have worked at it, and must have a good ear. Hoskins
seems to be one of those actors who can do just about anything.
Speaking of sitcoms with a character named "Niles," "The Nanny" had two
characters who were supposed to be English. Mr. Sheffield was played by
Charles Shaughnessy, born in London and with experience playing comedy at
Cambridge. The butler Niles was played by Daniel Davis, who was born in
Arkansas. (Fans may remember him better as having played a holographic
Professor James Moriarty on a couple of episodes of "ST:TNG.")
> I don't recall hearing "bad American accents" from British actors, but
> like someone else in this thread, I may have not realized they were
> trying to "talk American", and thought it was just another British
> accent.
My ex-sister-in-law is from Dorset, but at one point my father told me she
was taking lessons from a coach in Kentucky dialect, for a role I presume
she did not get.
Kip Williams
> m...@web1.calweb.com (Mike Van Pelt) appears to have caused the following
> letters to be typed in news:43f384b7$0$98491$d36...@news.calweb.com:
>
>>was from Britian. Same with Bob Hoskins in "Who Framed Roger Rabbit",
>>and the actor who plays Apollo in the new "Battlestar Galactica."
>
> Mahoney seems to have worked at it, and must have a good ear. Hoskins
> seems to be one of those actors who can do just about anything.
Peter Sellers also carried it off with near-perfect results in DR
STRANGELOVE.
Kip W
Mark Atwood
>
> Huh... I didn't know that. Nothing in his speech ever made me
> think he was from Britian. Same with Bob Hoskins in "Who Framed
> Roger Rabbit",
After I saw WFRR, I learned that Bob Hoskins was a Brit. I was blown
away. He does American accents better than most Americans.
Matthew B. Tepper
> "Matthew B. Tepper" <oy兀earthlink.net> writes:
>
>> I only ever met your father once or twice that I recall (for sure, at
>> your wedding reception), and my recalled impression was of a light
>> Hahvard accent.
>
> The way he talked seemed completely normal to me. :-)
>
> (But then it *would*, of course).
>
> He was born in England (Leicester) in 1915, moved to Canada shortly after
> WWI, moved down to California at some point, spent at least two
> highschool years in Germany, spent a couple of years at a fancy private
> school (no longer extant) (hmm, I think that was before Germany), went to
> UC Berkeley (graduated 1936), got his master's degree there, then out to
> Harvard for his PhD. So, if your accent gets modified by everywhere you
> live at least while young....
My mother (whom you might have met in 1983) was born in Manhattan and grew
up in The Bronx, but as a young woman worked hard to lose her dialect,
which she regarded as socially unacceptable. Occasionally she would lapse
back into it, but I think mostly for effect; she was as likely to slip into
Yiddish to bawl me out for some infraction, real or imagined.
Paul Harper
p...@pauldormer.cix.co.uk (Paul Dormer) wrote:
>So, I want to know, if doing an American accent is such hard work, why do
>Americans persist in using them?
I makes it easier to say "nucular"?
Paul.
--
. Bill Maher: "Tulips aren't flowers, they're gay onions"
. A .sig is all well and good, but it's no substitute for a personality
. Is there a moron carrot above? Have you replied to it? Are you sure?
. EMail: Unless invited to, don't; it's likely to be automatically deleted.
Marilee J. Layman
wrote:
>am...@deltrak.demon.co.uk (Andrew Stephenson) writes:
>>
>> OTOH some folk never seem to catch accents. Maybe it's a mindset
>> thing: past a certain age, that sense of identity gets locked-in.
>
>My accent drifts to match the locality, over a few months.
>
>I lived from age 6 to 13 in the US South, and when I speak to someone
>with a southern accent, my own old one starts showing up almost
>immediately.
I do this, too, and not on purpose. Sometimes people think you're
making fun of them and really, it just happens automatically.
--
Marilee J. Layman
http://mjlayman.livejournal.com/
Rob Hansen
wrote:
The blonde, female cop in 'CSI' (can't remember character's name) is
played by British actor Louise Lombard, the black FBI agent in
'Without a Trace' is played by Marianne Jean-Baptiste, and Lee Adama
in 'Battlestar Galactica' is played by Brit Jeremy Bamber. All of
their American accents sound pretty good to me, but then I'm not
American.
--
Rob Hansen
www.fiawol.demon.co.uk
Andrew Stephenson
oy兀earthlink.net "Matthew B. Tepper" writes:
> am...@deltrak.demon.co.uk (Andrew Stephenson) appears to have caused the
> following letters to be typed in news:114002...@deltrak.demon.co.uk:
>
> > Everyone knows the Ancient Romans spoke British. As does Ghod.
>
> And did those feet, in ancient times
> Walk upon England's mountains green?
And did those folk, in ancient times
Talk out in English phonemes clean?
--
Andrew Stephenson
Dan Goodman
> p...@pauldormer.cix.co.uk (Paul Dormer) appears to have caused the
> following letters to be typed in
> news:memo.2006021...@pauldormer.compulink.co.uk:
>
> > In article <45hboaF...@individual.net>, m...@hawkida.com (Max)
> > wrote:
> >
> >> *From:* Max <m...@hawkida.com>
> >> *Date:* Wed, 15 Feb 2006 18:55:05 +0000
> >>
> >> Mark Atwood wrote:
> >>
> >> > It took me the longest time to recognize fake USian accents as
> >> > performed by UKian actors. I always just thought they were more
> >>
> >> You know it goes both ways, right? I don't think I've ever heard a
> >> convincing English accent by an American in anything I've watched.
> And, >> weirdly, when they get English people in US programmes they
> encourage >> them to use the odd fake accent, too! The girl who
> played fiancee to >> Ross in Friends is an example I recall
> particularly well but I'm sure >> it wasn't the only one.
> >
> > Wasn't the woman in Frasier another example. I only saw it a
> > couple of times, but it did sound very odd.
>
> I was under the impression that Jane Leeves actually is English.
> Just checked IMDb -- born in Ilford, Essex. She wasn't even the only
> English- born cast member of "Frasier"; John Mahoney (Marty Crane) is
> from Lancs.
You missed the part where it was said that _English actors in US
programs use the same kind of fake UK accents as the Americans_.
--
Dan Goodman
All political parties die at last of swallowing their own lies.
John Arbuthnot (1667-1735), Scottish writer, physician.
Journal http://dsgood.livejournal.com
Clutterers Anonymous unofficial community
http://community.livejournal.com/clutterers_anon/
Decluttering http://decluttering.blogspot.com
Predictions and Politics http://dsgood.blogspot.com
Links http://del.icio.us/dsgood
Dan Goodman
> I don't recall hearing "bad American accents" from British
> actors, but like someone else in this thread, I may have
> not realized they were trying to "talk American", and thought
> it was just another British accent.
There's a Dr. Who episode, set at the OK Corral, in which the actors
maintain credible US accents -- for part of each sentence.
For more, see Peter Trudgill's "Acts of Conflicting Identity: The
sociolinguistics of British pop-song pronunciation." Trudgill
discusses British pop singers attempting (consciously or unconsciously)
to sound American -- later mixed with attempts to sound working-class
English.
Summary: They didn't do the first part very well.
Of course, since that time there've been Americans trying to sound
British. So we probably now have Americans trying to sound like Brits
who were trying to sound like Bob Dylan who was trying to sound like
Woody Guthrie.
Dan Goodman
I don't change the way I sound, but the words I use change depending on
who I talk to.
Mark Atwood
>
> The blonde, female cop in 'CSI' (can't remember character's name) is
> played by British actor Louise Lombard, the black FBI agent in
> 'Without a Trace' is played by Marianne Jean-Baptiste, and Lee Adama
> in 'Battlestar Galactica' is played by Brit Jeremy Bamber. All of
> their American accents sound pretty good to me, but then I'm not
> American.
Lee Adama's isn't quite perfect, which is fine, as the character isn't
an American.
Sofia Curtis's voice, likewise, sounds slightly "exotic" to my ear.
Agent Viv Johnson is dead on. Hats off to Ms Marianne Jean-Baptiste
and her accent coaches.
Keith F. Lynch
> I'm in Massachusetts now, and take comfort in the fact that nobody
> here seems to think I talk like a Virginian. (Though actually,
> an old-fashioned Virginian accent is kind of musical and courtly.
> One of the professors at CNU had one, and it was always kind of a
> delight to hear him use it.)
There are at least five different Virginia accents. I, living in the
northeast part of the state, can barely understand someone from the
southwest part.
--
Keith F. Lynch - http://keithlynch.net/
Please see http://keithlynch.net/email.html before emailing me.
Keith F. Lynch
> Of course, since that time there've been Americans trying to sound
> British. So we probably now have Americans trying to sound like
> Brits who were trying to sound like Bob Dylan who was trying to
> sound like Woody Guthrie.
According to _The Right Stuff_ many pilots emulate, deliberately or
otherwise, Chuck Yeager's West Virginia accent.
I've also read that obstetricians always pronounce "centimeter" as
"SONTimeter," and that nobody is sure how this got started.
Keith F. Lynch
> Now, I have at the back of my mind a memory of a news item just like
> that. A woman in the US somewhere had a stroke or something and
> suddenly started talking with an English accent.
A French accent after corpus callosum infarct
Hall et al.
Neurology 2003;60:1551-1552.
Kip Williams
> For more, see Peter Trudgill's "Acts of Conflicting Identity: The
> sociolinguistics of British pop-song pronunciation." Trudgill
> discusses British pop singers attempting (consciously or unconsciously)
> to sound American -- later mixed with attempts to sound working-class
> English.
>
> Summary: They didn't do the first part very well.
>
> Of course, since that time there've been Americans trying to sound
> British. So we probably now have Americans trying to sound like Brits
> who were trying to sound like Bob Dylan who was trying to sound like
> Woody Guthrie.
In the liner notes to "Bootleg Him" by Alexis Korner, it says that Mick
Jagger had some kind of injury that cut the tip of his tongue. After
that, Mick felt, he was able to capture an American accent in his
singing. (Then again, Florence Foster Jenkins was in a taxi accident
which she felt had increased her vocal range. For those familiar with
her truly amazingly awful singing, the question is "from what to what?")
Kip W
Matthew B. Tepper
letters to be typed in news:43f3cdd3$0$97756
$8046...@newsreader.iphouse.net:
Not really; I was just answering only the part of which I had experience.
I couldn't stand "Friends" (in part due to having had a girlfriend who
insisted that I watch it with her), but I was a big fan of "Frasier," and
Jane Leeves would do a generalized British accent rather than the Mancunian
that her character was supposed to have. Her family members, when they
eventually showed up, all had different dialects, including a yobbish
brother who tried to sound Cockney for some reason.
Joe Ellis
Kip Williams <ki...@comcast.net> wrote:
And if you like FloFo Jenkins, you're gonna LOVE Shooby Taylor.
http://www.maxbass.com/shooby.htm
--
Evaluating all GUIs by the example of Windows is like evaluating all cars
by the example of Yugos.
Edward McArdle
Kip Williams <ki...@comcast.net> wrote:
> Paul Dormer wrote:
> > Now, I have at the back of my mind a memory of a news item just like that.
> > A woman in the US somewhere had a stroke or something and suddenly
> > started talking with an English accent. What I want to know is which
> > English accent. I've found the odd thing about Americans trying to do
> > English accents is that they pick and mix, ending up not sounding like any
> > Englishman I know.
>
> Whenever I've been prepped for a show requiring an accent, we've used
> accent tapes and books that deal in either BBC English or a specific
> regional accent. With such resources available, I don't know why actors
> up in the dizzying reaches of filmmaking can't get an accent correct.
> The same thing is available for American regional accents. If it's any
> comfort, Americans seldom get those right, either. Voice actor Daws
> Butler was a kind of prodigy at it, knowing accents for specific states
> and all.
>
> As to whether I, an American, realize that we can't do British accents,
> I just have to say that I can tell some of the time, but it's mostly
> easier for me to know whether someone's getting my own accent wrong.
>
> I was in a show at CNU where I did a British accent (BBC). Afterwards, a
> friend was congratulating me on it, saying she had misgivings at first
> because she wasn't sure I could lose my Southern accent. I didn't let
> on, but the idea that I have such a thing was one of the biggest ego
> blows I'd ever received from a friend.
As a furriner, I find that there is an astonishing range in US accents,
from some which are really beautiful (I speak mainly of females
speaking) to some which are just raucous and screeching. We have similar
ranges in Australia, but they tend to be class-based rather than
regional. (Am I allowed to say that?)
--
my URL,
http://www.ozemail.com.au/~mcardle
Dan Goodman
> Kip Williams <ki...@comcast.net> wrote:
> > I'm in Massachusetts now, and take comfort in the fact that nobody
> > here seems to think I talk like a Virginian. (Though actually,
> > an old-fashioned Virginian accent is kind of musical and courtly.
> > One of the professors at CNU had one, and it was always kind of a
> > delight to hear him use it.)
>
> There are at least five different Virginia accents. I, living in the
> northeast part of the state, can barely understand someone from the
> southwest part.
There are three dialects in New York State, all of which cross state
lines. To me, people speaking Montreal English have much less of an
accent than people speaking NYC English -- and that includes
Montrealers whose native language is French.
Daniel R. Reitman
wrote:
>. . . .
>I lived from age 6 to 13 in the US South, and when I speak to someone
>with a southern accent, my own old one starts showing up almost
>immediately.
Whenever I visit my relatives back east, the New York accent comes
out. Shortly after returning from such a visit in 1999, I decided to
bring some work to the Spokane Westercon. When I called directory
assistance to get the number for a law library, the operator reported
being unable to understand "Gonzaggy University."
Dan, ad nauseam
Daniel R. Reitman
<oy兀earthlink.net> wrote:
>am...@deltrak.demon.co.uk (Andrew Stephenson) appears to have caused the
>following letters to be typed in news:114002...@deltrak.demon.co.uk:
>> Everyone knows the Ancient Romans spoke British. As does Ghod.
>And did those feet, in ancient times
>Walk upon England's mountains green?
Did someone say "mattress" to Mr. Verity?
Dan, ad nauseam
Dan Goodman
> As a furriner, I find that there is an astonishing range in US
> accents, from some which are really beautiful (I speak mainly of
> females speaking) to some which are just raucous and screeching. We
> have similar ranges in Australia, but they tend to be class-based
> rather than regional. (Am I allowed to say that?)
There are class-based differences in the US -- but they're not
national.
In Jamaica, from what I've read, there are extreme differences among
classes.
Note: I can't tell a New Zealander talking to a non-NZer from an
Australian. But one talking to fellow-countryman, I can.
Zev Sero
> As a furriner, I find that there is an astonishing range in US accents,
> from some which are really beautiful (I speak mainly of females
> speaking) to some which are just raucous and screeching. We have similar
> ranges in Australia, but they tend to be class-based rather than
> regional. (Am I allowed to say that?)
According to the Macquarie, there are only three Australian accents,
all of which are spread pretty evenly around the country. You can tell
where someone is from by some of the words they use, but not, in general,
by their accent. (There are a few words that are pronounced differently
in some parts of the country, but not enough to count as a separate
accent.)
--
Zev Sero Security and liberty are like beer and TV. They go
z...@sero.name well together, but are completely different concepts.
- James Lileks
Zev Sero
> I don't recall hearing "bad American accents" from British
> actors, but like someone else in this thread, I may have
> not realized they were trying to "talk American", and thought
> it was just another British accent.
Well, there was the Buffy episode where Spike is incognito, and speaks
with an utterly unconvincing American accent. James Marsters is American,
so I thought it took some pretty good acting to be able to sound like an
Englishman trying and failing to sound American.
Doug Wickstrom
<nfedndbaZMA...@comcast.com>
Kip Williams <ki...@comcast.net> caused electrons to dance and
photons to travel coherently in saying:
Ah, yes. Group Captain Mandrake and Dr. Strangelove had such
wonderful American accents. Oh, you meant President Merkin
Muffley? Not convincing.
--
Doug Wickstrom <nims...@comcast.net>
"The Internet is a great way to get on the Net." --Bob Dole
Now filtering out all cross-posted messages and everything posted
through Google News.
Max
> You missed the part where it was said that _English actors in US
> programs use the same kind of fake UK accents as the Americans_.
Jane Leeves is a bizarre one - she puts on a northern accent for the
role which still has the odd American overtones.
I have realised I've got a decent counter example to my claim, though.
The woman currently playing the role of Neela in ER sounds like a real
English person (she is English, I believe).
Max
Max
> Well, there was the Buffy episode where Spike is incognito, and speaks
> with an utterly unconvincing American accent. James Marsters is American,
> so I thought it took some pretty good acting to be able to sound like an
> Englishman trying and failing to sound American.
Oh yes, James Marsters - his British accent is excellent (although the
words in the scripts are occasinally off). It's always odd to see behind
the scenes things where he talks naturally.
Max
Paul Dormer
(Mike Van Pelt) wrote:
> In article <Xns976B73FA417...@207.217.125.201>,
> Matthew B. Tepper <oy兀earthlink.net> wrote:
> >I was under the impression that Jane Leeves actually is English. Just
> >checked IMDb -- born in Ilford, Essex. She wasn't even the only
> English-
> >born cast member of "Frasier"; John Mahoney (Marty Crane) is from
> Lancs.
>
> Huh... I didn't know that. Nothing in his speech ever made me
> think he was from Britian. Same with Bob Hoskins in "Who Framed
> Roger Rabbit", and the actor who plays Apollo in the new
> "Battlestar Galactica."
I remember an American friend telling me that he saw Bob Hoskins on a chat
show and wondered why he had adopted an English accent, thinking him
American.
Paul Dormer
z...@sero.name (Zev Sero) wrote:
> *From:* Zev Sero <z...@sero.name>
> *Date:* Thu, 16 Feb 2006 06:42:51 GMT
>
> Mike Van Pelt wrote:
>
> > I don't recall hearing "bad American accents" from British
> > actors, but like someone else in this thread, I may have
> > not realized they were trying to "talk American", and thought
> > it was just another British accent.
>
> Well, there was the Buffy episode where Spike is incognito, and speaks
> with an utterly unconvincing American accent. James Marsters is
> American,
> so I thought it took some pretty good acting to be able to sound like an
> Englishman trying and failing to sound American.
>
>
And, to get back to where we started, there's an episode of House where
House phones a hospital pretending to be an English doctor and puts on a
totally unconvincing English accent.
Paul Dormer
> Not really; I was just answering only the part of which I had
> experience. I couldn't stand "Friends" (in part due to having had a
> girlfriend who insisted that I watch it with her), but I was a big fan
> of "Frasier," and Jane Leeves would do a generalized British accent
> rather than the Mancunian that her character was supposed to have.
But, my point was that it was not a realistic accent. No one actually
speaks like that.
Paul Dormer
(Steve Glover) wrote:
> In article <Xns976B73F983B...@207.217.125.201>, Matthew B.
> Tepper <?@earthlink.net.invalid> writes
> >I once saw Ronnie Corbett (I almost said "the late," but it was his
> partner
> >from "The Two Ronnies," Ronnie Barker, who died recently)
>
> It always seems to be the funnier one who dies first in comedy duos.
>
> >show how easy it
> >was to change from the standard lilting Irish accent to the harsher
> >Northern Irish one, by tightening the corners of one's mouth back a
> bit.
>
> Yep. This works for rural Northern Irish to Belfast and for rural West
> of Scotland to Glasgow, too. In fact, I'm not sure that it doesn't work
> for $RuralHinterland to $MainCity across a lot of the UK.
Heard a talk on language once where it was mentioned that a particular
vowel sound had made the jump from Catholic Belfast to Protestant Belfast
at a time when the two communities were not talking much. Turned out
though that all the Protestant men were working in the centre of Belfast,
where all the shop assistants were from the Catholic part, and the men
were picking up the new sound from them.
Bernard Peek
<k...@KeithLynch.net> writes
>There are at least five different Virginia accents. I, living in the
>northeast part of the state, can barely understand someone from the
>southwest part.
It's a question of perspective. You may be able to distinguish the
different Virginia accents but I doubt that I would. Similarly, I can
distinguish different accents from North and South of the Thames, but I
wouldn't expect anyone from outside London to be able to do that.
--
Once more in search of cognoscenti
Bernard Peek
b...@shrdlu.com
Andy Leighton
Well it is now. When he was first on Buffy his accent was quite clearly
wrong.
--
Andy Leighton => an...@azaal.plus.com
"The Lord is my shepherd, but we still lost the sheep dog trials"
- Robert Rankin, _They Came And Ate Us_
David Goldfarb
>Oh yes, James Marsters - his British accent is excellent (although the
>words in the scripts are occasinally off). It's always odd to see behind
>the scenes things where he talks naturally.
It was very strange to see him on _Smallville_ with brown hair and an
American accent. To be honest, his speech sometimes sounded a bit strange
to me...I'm not sure whether he was trying to do a Midwestern accent and
not doing a good job, or trying not to do an English accent and
overcorrecting, or whether it was just my ear expecting to hear an English
accent and being surprised at not.
--
David Goldfarb |"Backward, turn backward, O time in your flight!
gold...@ocf.berkeley.edu | I've thought of a comeback I needed last night."
gold...@csua.berkeley.edu | -- Dorothy Parker
Kip Williams
> On Wed, 15 Feb 2006 15:22:47 -0500, in message
> <nfedndbaZMA...@comcast.com>
> Kip Williams <ki...@comcast.net> caused electrons to dance and
> photons to travel coherently in saying:
>
>>Matthew B. Tepper wrote:
>>
>>>m...@web1.calweb.com (Mike Van Pelt) appears to have caused the following
>>>letters to be typed in news:43f384b7$0$98491$d36...@news.calweb.com:
>>>
>>>>Huh... I didn't know that. Nothing in his speech ever made me think he
>>>>was from Britian. Same with Bob Hoskins in "Who Framed Roger Rabbit",
>>>>and the actor who plays Apollo in the new "Battlestar Galactica."
>>>
>>>Mahoney seems to have worked at it, and must have a good ear. Hoskins
>>>seems to be one of those actors who can do just about anything.
>>
>>Peter Sellers also carried it off with near-perfect results in DR
>>STRANGELOVE.
>
> Ah, yes. Group Captain Mandrake and Dr. Strangelove had such
> wonderful American accents. Oh, you meant President Merkin
> Muffley? Not convincing.
Interesting.
Kip W
Mark Atwood
>
>>There are at least five different Virginia accents. I, living in the
>>northeast part of the state, can barely understand someone from the
>>southwest part.
>
> It's a question of perspective. You may be able to distinguish the
> different Virginia accents but I doubt that I would. Similarly, I can
> distinguish different accents from North and South of the Thames, but
> I wouldn't expect anyone from outside London to be able to do that.
Notice that when I posted the list of accents I can recognize, I
listed no less than 3 different Utah accents.
Zev Sero
> And, to get back to where we started, there's an episode of House where
> House phones a hospital pretending to be an English doctor and puts on a
> totally unconvincing English accent.
Oh, yes, I'd forgotten that.
In general, it must be difficult to convincingly pretend to do something
poorly that one actually can do well. There was an episode of _Keeping
Up Appearances_ where Elizabeth and Emmett are going horseriding, and
Hyacinth decides that she and Richard will go too, even though she's
barely got a clue which end of the horse goes up. And inevitably, while
Emmett and Elizabeth ride well, Hyacinth ends up making a fool of herself.
The thing is, though, that watching the episode it seemed clear that
David Griffin, playing Emmett, is not an experienced rider, and seemed
rather stiff, while Patricia Routledge looked like she knew exactly what
she was doing, and kept her seat well at all times, even as her horse
went careening off into the distance. I'm not sure whether the fact
that she let it show makes it good acting or bad. I suppose if she'd
done it right, and really looked like she didn't know what she was doing,
I wouldn't be impressed, because I'd just assume that she really didn't
know. (I don't ride at all, and if I'd been in Hyacinth's position I'd
have fallen off.)
Matthew B. Tepper
following letters to be typed in
> In article <43f384b7$0$98491$d36...@news.calweb.com>,
> m...@web1.calweb.com (Mike Van Pelt) wrote:
>
>> In article <Xns976B73FA417...@207.217.125.201>,
>> Matthew B. Tepper <oy兀earthlink.net> wrote:
>> >I was under the impression that Jane Leeves actually is English. Just
>> >checked IMDb -- born in Ilford, Essex. She wasn't even the only
>> >English-born cast member of "Frasier"; John Mahoney (Marty Crane) is
>> >from Lancs.
>>
>> Huh... I didn't know that. Nothing in his speech ever made me
>> think he was from Britian. Same with Bob Hoskins in "Who Framed
>> Roger Rabbit", and the actor who plays Apollo in the new
>> "Battlestar Galactica."
>
> I remember an American friend telling me that he saw Bob Hoskins on a
> chat show and wondered why he had adopted an English accent, thinking
> him American.
I felt muc the same way the first time I saw Michael Caine on a talk show,
and he was speaking like a Cockney.
Dan Kimmel
"Matthew B. Tepper" <oyş@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:Xns976C4EBDD37...@207.217.125.201...
> p...@pauldormer.cix.co.uk (Paul Dormer) appears to have caused the
> following letters to be typed in
> news:memo.2006021...@pauldormer.compulink.co.uk:
>
> > In article <43f384b7$0$98491$d36...@news.calweb.com>,
> > m...@web1.calweb.com (Mike Van Pelt) wrote:
> >
> >> In article <Xns976B73FA417...@207.217.125.201>,
> >> >I was under the impression that Jane Leeves actually is English. Just
> >> >checked IMDb -- born in Ilford, Essex. She wasn't even the only
> >> >English-born cast member of "Frasier"; John Mahoney (Marty Crane) is
> >> >from Lancs.
> >>
> >> Huh... I didn't know that. Nothing in his speech ever made me
> >> think he was from Britian. Same with Bob Hoskins in "Who Framed
> >> Roger Rabbit", and the actor who plays Apollo in the new
> >> "Battlestar Galactica."
> >
> > I remember an American friend telling me that he saw Bob Hoskins on a
> > chat show and wondered why he had adopted an English accent, thinking
> > him American.
>
> I felt muc the same way the first time I saw Michael Caine on a talk show,
> and he was speaking like a Cockney.
>
I'm amazed at the confusion over Bob Hoskins given that he first came to
notice to American audiences in "The Long Good Friday."
I remember attending a screening for "Sweet Liberty" where Alan Alda spoke.
He said he went out to lunch with Hoskins and Caine and once they started in
on their Cockney slang he pulled out a book since he couldn't make heads or
tails out of it.
Dorothy J Heydt
>following letters to be typed in
>news:memo.2006021...@pauldormer.compulink.co.uk:
>
>> In article <43f384b7$0$98491$d36...@news.calweb.com>,
>> m...@web1.calweb.com (Mike Van Pelt) wrote:
>>
>>> In article <Xns976B73FA417...@207.217.125.201>,
>>> >I was under the impression that Jane Leeves actually is English. Just
>>> >checked IMDb -- born in Ilford, Essex. She wasn't even the only
>>> >English-born cast member of "Frasier"; John Mahoney (Marty Crane) is
>>> >from Lancs.
>>>
>>> Huh... I didn't know that. Nothing in his speech ever made me
>>> think he was from Britian. Same with Bob Hoskins in "Who Framed
>>> Roger Rabbit", and the actor who plays Apollo in the new
>>> "Battlestar Galactica."
>>
>> I remember an American friend telling me that he saw Bob Hoskins on a
>> chat show and wondered why he had adopted an English accent, thinking
>> him American.
>
>I felt muc the same way the first time I saw Michael Caine on a talk show,
>and he was speaking like a Cockney.
John Hannah, who played the heroine's brother in the Mummy movies
with what sounded to me like a standard upper-class English
accent, speaks off-camera with a pronounced Glaswegian accent,
with all the strange vowels.
Dorothy J. Heydt
Albany, California
djh...@kithrup.com
Paul Dormer
> Zev Sero wrote:
>
> > Well, there was the Buffy episode where Spike is incognito, and speaks
> > with an utterly unconvincing American accent. James Marsters is
> > American,
> > so I thought it took some pretty good acting to be able to sound like
> > an
> > Englishman trying and failing to sound American.
>
> Oh yes, James Marsters - his British accent is excellent (although the
> words in the scripts are occasinally off).
Yeah, I remember him saying once "Don't get your knickers twisted,"
whereas an Englishman would say "Don't get your knickers in a twist."
In a similar vein, I was amused on Stargate Atlantis this week when the
Scottish doctor was trying to perform an operation during a power cut and
asked for more torches, and when everyone hesitated, corrected to
flashlights.
Paul Dormer
daniel...@rcn.com (Dan Kimmel) wrote:
I think for many more Americans, it was Who Framed Roger Rabbit that first
brought him to their attention.
Robert Sneddon
<djh...@kithrup.com> writes
>John Hannah, who played the heroine's brother in the Mummy movies
>with what sounded to me like a standard upper-class English
>accent, speaks off-camera with a pronounced Glaswegian accent,
>with all the strange vowels.
I identified Billy Boyd (who played Pippin in _Lord of the Rings_) as
coming from south Lanarkshire first time he opened his mouth on screen.
I don't suppose there was a Hobbiton accent as such for him to learn so
he just went with his home dialect.
--
My gmail account is nojay1 Robert Sneddon
Bernard Peek
<m...@mark.atwood.name> writes
>Bernard Peek <b...@shrdlu.com> writes:
>>
>>>There are at least five different Virginia accents. I, living in the
>>>northeast part of the state, can barely understand someone from the
>>>southwest part.
>>
>> It's a question of perspective. You may be able to distinguish the
>> different Virginia accents but I doubt that I would. Similarly, I can
>> distinguish different accents from North and South of the Thames, but
>> I wouldn't expect anyone from outside London to be able to do that.
>
>Notice that when I posted the list of accents I can recognize, I
>listed no less than 3 different Utah accents.
Yes, but how many would a Utah resident identify? Would they be the same
ones that you hear?
Jette Goldie
"Paul Dormer" <p...@pauldormer.cix.co.uk> wrote in message
news:memo.2006021...@pauldormer.compulink.co.uk...
I like how Rodney is quite *insistant* in his pronounciation of
ZedPM, not ZeePM.
--
Jette Goldie
je...@blueyonder.co.uk
http://www.jette.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/
("reply to" is spamblocked)
Mark Atwood
>>
>>Notice that when I posted the list of accents I can recognize, I
>>listed no less than 3 different Utah accents.
>
> Yes, but how many would a Utah resident identify?
About 3.
> Would they be the same ones that you hear?
Yes.
How do you *think* I myself learned to distinguish them?
Dan Goodman
> In message <dt0jq2$8ic$1...@panix3.panix.com>, Keith F. Lynch
>
> > There are at least five different Virginia accents. I, living in
> > the northeast part of the state, can barely understand someone from
> > the southwest part.
>
> It's a question of perspective. You may be able to distinguish the
> different Virginia accents but I doubt that I would. Similarly, I can
> distinguish different accents from North and South of the Thames, but
> I wouldn't expect anyone from outside London to be able to do that.
Accents within a state can be as different as London and Yorkshire.
Mark Jeffcoat
> Rob Hansen <r...@fiawol.demon.co.uk> writes:
> >
> > The blonde, female cop in 'CSI' (can't remember character's name) is
> > played by British actor Louise Lombard, the black FBI agent in
> > 'Without a Trace' is played by Marianne Jean-Baptiste, and Lee Adama
> > in 'Battlestar Galactica' is played by Brit Jeremy Bamber. All of
> > their American accents sound pretty good to me, but then I'm not
> > American.
>
>
> Lee Adama's isn't quite perfect, which is fine, as the character isn't
> an American.
It's good enough that I was stunned to hear Bamber
talk in one of the behind-the-scenes-of-Galactica
shows. I'd have happily sworn that those two voices
weren't coming out of the same person's mouth--they're
not even pitched similarly.
--
Mark Jeffcoat
Austin, TX
David Dyer-Bennet
> In article <45j41sF...@individual.net>, m...@hawkida.com (Max) wrote:
>
> > Zev Sero wrote:
> >
> > > Well, there was the Buffy episode where Spike is incognito, and speaks
> > > with an utterly unconvincing American accent. James Marsters is
> > > American,
> > > so I thought it took some pretty good acting to be able to sound like
> > > an
> > > Englishman trying and failing to sound American.
> >
> > Oh yes, James Marsters - his British accent is excellent (although the
> > words in the scripts are occasinally off).
>
> Yeah, I remember him saying once "Don't get your knickers twisted,"
> whereas an Englishman would say "Don't get your knickers in a twist."
So would an american; the first is clearly wrong to my ear.
--
David Dyer-Bennet, <mailto:dd...@dd-b.net>, <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/>
RKBA: <http://noguns-nomoney.com/> <http://www.dd-b.net/carry/>
Pics: <http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/> <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/>
Dragaera/Steven Brust: <http://dragaera.info/>
Rob Hansen
Paul Dormer
jeff...@alumni.rice.edu (Mark Jeffcoat) wrote:
> *From:* Mark Jeffcoat <jeff...@alumni.rice.edu>
> *Date:* 16 Feb 2006 12:31:18 -0600
Isn't that the thing about English and US speakers - that English speakers
tend to pitch their voices higher? Seems to be to my ears.
Mark Atwood
>
> Accents within a state can be as different as London and Yorkshire.
The such as Utah. The difference between the northern one and the
southern two are not extreme, but the markers are completely
different, to my ear.
In the US, some of the in-city different accents are likewise very
very different. Ferexm in NYC, Brooklyn vs Queens, or in Boston,
Beacon Hill vs Southie.
Matthew B. Tepper
following letters to be typed in
ACTING! (Grand hand gesture.)
Matthew B. Tepper
following letters to be typed in
news:memo.2006021...@pauldormer.compulink.co.uk:
> In article <hcmdnZsC6O-uOWne...@rcn.net>,
> daniel...@rcn.com (Dan Kimmel) wrote:
>
>> "Matthew B. Tepper" <oyţ@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>> news:Xns976C4EBDD37...@207.217.125.201...
>> > p...@pauldormer.cix.co.uk (Paul Dormer) appears to have caused the
>> > following letters to be typed in
>> > news:memo.2006021...@pauldormer.compulink.co.uk:
>> >
>> > > In article <43f384b7$0$98491$d36...@news.calweb.com>,
>> > > m...@web1.calweb.com (Mike Van Pelt) wrote:
>> > >
>> > >> In article <Xns976B73FA417...@207.217.125.201>,
>> > >> Matthew B. Tepper <oyţ@earthlink.net> wrote:
>> > >> >I was under the impression that Jane Leeves actually is English.
>> > >> >Just checked IMDb -- born in Ilford, Essex. She wasn't even the
>> > >> >only English-born cast member of "Frasier"; John Mahoney (Marty
>> > >> >Crane) is from Lancs.
>> > >>
>> > >> Huh... I didn't know that. Nothing in his speech ever made me
>> > >> think he was from Britian. Same with Bob Hoskins in "Who Framed
>> > >> Roger Rabbit", and the actor who plays Apollo in the new
>> > >> "Battlestar Galactica."
>> > >
>> > > I remember an American friend telling me that he saw Bob Hoskins on
>> > > a chat show and wondered why he had adopted an English accent,
>> > > thinking him American.
>> >
>> > I felt muc the same way the first time I saw Michael Caine on a talk
>> > show, and he was speaking like a Cockney.
>>
>> I'm amazed at the confusion over Bob Hoskins given that he first came
>> to notice to American audiences in "The Long Good Friday."
>
> I think for many more Americans, it was Who Framed Roger Rabbit that
> first brought him to their attention.
I had heard about him previously, from a friend who had liked his
performance in "Mona Lisa."
Marilee J. Layman
>Marilee J. Layman wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 15 Feb 2006 18:48:01 GMT, Mark Atwood <m...@mark.atwood.name>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > am...@deltrak.demon.co.uk (Andrew Stephenson) writes:
>> > >
>> >> OTOH some folk never seem to catch accents. Maybe it's a mindset
>> >> thing: past a certain age, that sense of identity gets locked-in.
>> >
>> > My accent drifts to match the locality, over a few months.
>> >
>> > I lived from age 6 to 13 in the US South, and when I speak to
>> > someone with a southern accent, my own old one starts showing up
>> > almost immediately.
>>
>> I do this, too, and not on purpose. Sometimes people think you're
>> making fun of them and really, it just happens automatically.
>
>I don't change the way I sound, but the words I use change depending on
>who I talk to.
Oh, I do that, too, although you don't always know the first time you
talk to people. I had to explain some words & phrases to the psych
the first time I saw him, so the second/last time I used more common
words.
--
Marilee J. Layman
http://mjlayman.livejournal.com/
Marilee J. Layman
wrote:
>Dan Goodman <dsg...@iphouse.com> wrote:
>> Of course, since that time there've been Americans trying to sound
>> British. So we probably now have Americans trying to sound like
>> Brits who were trying to sound like Bob Dylan who was trying to
>> sound like Woody Guthrie.
>
>According to _The Right Stuff_ many pilots emulate, deliberately or
>otherwise, Chuck Yeager's West Virginia accent.
>
>I've also read that obstetricians always pronounce "centimeter" as
>"SONTimeter," and that nobody is sure how this got started.
Because "sonimeter" is the French pronunciation. I learned it in the
hospital, where lots of the doctors used it.
Marilee J. Layman
p...@pauldormer.cix.co.uk (Paul Dormer) wrote:
>In article <45j41sF...@individual.net>, m...@hawkida.com (Max) wrote:
>
>> Zev Sero wrote:
>>
>> > Well, there was the Buffy episode where Spike is incognito, and speaks
>> > with an utterly unconvincing American accent. James Marsters is
>> > American,
>> > so I thought it took some pretty good acting to be able to sound like
>> > an
>> > Englishman trying and failing to sound American.
>>
>> Oh yes, James Marsters - his British accent is excellent (although the
>> words in the scripts are occasinally off).
>
>Yeah, I remember him saying once "Don't get your knickers twisted,"
>whereas an Englishman would say "Don't get your knickers in a twist."
Usians don't say "Don't get your knickers twisted" either. Maybe
"Don't get your panties in a twist."
>In a similar vein, I was amused on Stargate Atlantis this week when the
>Scottish doctor was trying to perform an operation during a power cut and
>asked for more torches, and when everyone hesitated, corrected to
>flashlights.
Yes, I liked that bit.
Marilee J. Layman
wrote:
>Kip Williams <ki...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> I'm in Massachusetts now, and take comfort in the fact that nobody
>> here seems to think I talk like a Virginian. (Though actually,
>> an old-fashioned Virginian accent is kind of musical and courtly.
>> One of the professors at CNU had one, and it was always kind of a
>> delight to hear him use it.)
>
>There are at least five different Virginia accents. I, living in the
>northeast part of the state, can barely understand someone from the
>southwest part.
I can slide into understanding it as long as I already know how they
say place names. Otherwise, I get stuck trying to figure out the
place names and lose the rest of the words.
Marilee J. Layman
wrote:
>In message <dt0jq2$8ic$1...@panix3.panix.com>, Keith F. Lynch
><k...@KeithLynch.net> writes
>
>>There are at least five different Virginia accents. I, living in the
>>northeast part of the state, can barely understand someone from the
>>southwest part.
>
>It's a question of perspective. You may be able to distinguish the
>different Virginia accents but I doubt that I would.
That would surprise me. Virginia has a true Southern accent and a
true Appalachian accent (which is supposed to be close to Welsh Scots,
I think). There's a big enough difference that USians who haven't
been in VA before can tell.
Similarly, I can
>distinguish different accents from North and South of the Thames, but I
>wouldn't expect anyone from outside London to be able to do that.
Rob Hansen
<mar...@mjlayman.com> wrote:
> Virginia has a true Southern accent and a
>true Appalachian accent (which is supposed to be close to Welsh Scots,
>I think).
What the heck is a 'Welsh Scots' accent?
--
Rob Hansen
www.fiawol.demon.co.uk
Tim McDaniel
Andy Leighton <an...@azaal.plus.com> wrote:
>On Thu, 16 Feb 2006 10:55:55 +0000, Max <m...@hawkida.com> wrote:
>> Zev Sero wrote:
>>
>>> Well, there was the Buffy episode where Spike is incognito, and
>>> speaks with an utterly unconvincing American accent. James
>>> Marsters is American, so I thought it took some pretty good acting
>>> to be able to sound like an Englishman trying and failing to sound
>>> American.
>>
>> Oh yes, James Marsters - his British accent is excellent (although
>> see behind the scenes things where he talks naturally.
>
>Well it is now. When he was first on Buffy his accent was quite
>clearly wrong.
I believe Anthony Stewart Head (ASH) did a fair amount of coaching
of James Marsters while _Buffy the Vampire Slayer_ went on.
ASH's natural accent is rather lower-class than the accent Rupert
Giles used (as far as my tin American ear can tell), and Bad!Giles
acted lower classer still, so ASH must be pretty good with accents.
--
"Me, I love the USA; I never miss an episode." -- Paul "Fruitbat" Sleigh
Tim McDaniel; Reply-To: tm...@panix.com
Dan Goodman
> On Thu, 16 Feb 2006 11:07:52 +0000, Bernard Peek <b...@shrdlu.com>
>
> > In message <dt0jq2$8ic$1...@panix3.panix.com>, Keith F. Lynch
> >
> > > There are at least five different Virginia accents. I, living in
> > > the northeast part of the state, can barely understand someone
> > > from the southwest part.
> >
> > It's a question of perspective. You may be able to distinguish the
> > different Virginia accents but I doubt that I would.
>
> That would surprise me. Virginia has a true Southern accent and a
> true Appalachian accent (which is supposed to be close to Welsh Scots,
> I think). There's a big enough difference that USians who haven't
> been in VA before can tell.
A bit of dialect geekery here: The Appalachian dialect (actually a
collection of sub-dialects) is called (depending on which linguist is
doing the classification) either South Midlands (North Midlands starts
in Western Pennsylvania and goes west from there) or Upper South (Lower
South being the Southern dialect).
It's not _close_ to any British Isles dialect, but it was influenced by
Ulster Scots and Scots -- by way of which it has, if I recall
correctly, some words originally from Gaelic. It's also been
influenced by German.
(If I were classifying North American dialects of English, I would
probably begin by dividing them into "Newfoundland" and "Everything
else.")
Dan Goodman
> On Thu, 16 Feb 2006 18:56:00 -0500, Marilee J. Layman
> <mar...@mjlayman.com> wrote:
>
> > Virginia has a true Southern accent and a
> > true Appalachian accent (which is supposed to be close to Welsh
> > Scots, I think).
>
> What the heck is a 'Welsh Scots' accent?
I suspect that either she means Ulster Scots, or that post was intended
for soc.history.what-if.
Dan Goodman
> On 16 Feb 2006 01:07:31 GMT, "Dan Goodman" <dsg...@iphouse.com> wrote:
>
> > Marilee J. Layman wrote:
> >
> >> On Wed, 15 Feb 2006 18:48:01 GMT, Mark Atwood <m...@mark.atwood.name>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> > am...@deltrak.demon.co.uk (Andrew Stephenson) writes:
> >> > >
> >> >> OTOH some folk never seem to catch accents. Maybe it's a
> mindset >> >> thing: past a certain age, that sense of identity gets
> locked-in. >> >
> >> > My accent drifts to match the locality, over a few months.
> >> >
> >> > I lived from age 6 to 13 in the US South, and when I speak to
> >> > someone with a southern accent, my own old one starts showing up
> >> > almost immediately.
> >>
> >> I do this, too, and not on purpose. Sometimes people think you're
> >> making fun of them and really, it just happens automatically.
> >
> > I don't change the way I sound, but the words I use change
> > depending on who I talk to.
>
> Oh, I do that, too, although you don't always know the first time you
> talk to people. I had to explain some words & phrases to the psych
> the first time I saw him, so the second/last time I used more common
> words.
In Minnesota, I have to remember to say "green beans" rather than
"string beans" and "black tea" rather than "regular tea." It's no
longer necessary to say "pop" -- "soda" (which I grew up with) is
invading.
Recently, I've noticed people looking at me funny if I say "icebox"
rather than "refrigerator."
Matthew B. Tepper
letters to be typed in news:43f520a0$0$789$8046...@newsreader.iphouse.net:
I've *always* said "green beans" in preference to "string beans," growing
up here in Southern California, and having lived a time in Minnesota.
The "icebox" bit is probably your age, rather than a regional thing.
Rob Hansen
p...@pauldormer.cix.co.uk (Paul Dormer) wrote:
>I remember an American friend telling me that he saw Bob Hoskins on a chat
>show and wondered why he had adopted an English accent, thinking him
>American.
Talking of chat shows, that reminds me of the interesting case of
Gillian Anderson. Though American, she lived over here through much of
her childhood and so, naturally, had an English accent. When the
family moved back to the US she acquired an American accent. She's
been living over here in the years post-X Files and has reacquired an
English accent. It was quite odd seeing her on a chat show sounding
like that the first time.
--
Rob Hansen
www.fiawol.demon.co.uk
Daniel R. Reitman
<boss...@scotlandmail.com> wrote:
>I like how Rodney is quite *insistant* in his pronounciation of
>ZedPM, not ZeePM.
The only time Nicola Bryant's portrayal of Peri could be said to be
American was when she said "Zee," which was clearly intended for the
purpose of having Colin Baker correct her.
Dan, ad nauseam