Clarke's Third Law as applied to music
PeterCat
for 90 minutes crossing the border to the US on the way home from TorCon
and flipping around the radio dial.]
Any sufficiently advanced country music is indistinguishable from rock.
Any sufficiently advanced rock music is indistinguishable from jazz.
--
The Furry InfoPage! <http://www.tigerden.com/infopage/furry/>
pete...@Furry.fan.org (PeterCat) Anthrocon Art Show director
--
"He's cute all right, but only if you're into dogs."
Watch InuYasha, Monday-Thursday nights on Cartoon Network!
J Lee
Corollary: Any sufficiently advanced random noise is indistinguishable from
Yanni.
"PeterCat" <pete...@furry.fan.org> wrote in message
news:petercat-03D95A...@syrcnyrdrs-02-ge0.nyroc.rr.com...
: [These are the sorts of things you think about while waiting in traffic
Dorothy J Heydt
PeterCat <pete...@furry.fan.org> wrote:
>[These are the sorts of things you think about while waiting in traffic
>for 90 minutes crossing the border to the US on the way home from TorCon
>and flipping around the radio dial.]
>
>Any sufficiently advanced country music is indistinguishable from rock.
>
>Any sufficiently advanced rock music is indistinguishable from jazz.
I fear this is YMMV, since for me anything written after 1955 is
indistinguishable from rock, but that doesn't make it necessarily
advanced.
Dorothy J. Heydt
Albany, California
djh...@kithrup.com
Cally Soukup
> [These are the sorts of things you think about while waiting in traffic
> for 90 minutes crossing the border to the US on the way home from TorCon
> and flipping around the radio dial.]
> Any sufficiently advanced country music is indistinguishable from rock.
> Any sufficiently advanced rock music is indistinguishable from jazz.
I was lucky, and had only about a fifteen minute wait. Also _archy and
Mehitabelle_ on the tape player. "Toujour gai, archy, toujour gai!"
--
"I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend
to the death your right to say it." -- Beatrice Hall
Cally Soukup sou...@pobox.com
mike weber
typed
>[These are the sorts of things you think about while waiting in traffic
>for 90 minutes crossing the border to the US on the way home from TorCon
>and flipping around the radio dial.]
>
>Any sufficiently advanced country music is indistinguishable from rock.
>
>Any sufficiently advanced rock music is indistinguishable from jazz.
>
I wouldn't use the word "advanced" in either case.
"Cheesy" in the first case, and "pretentious" in the second.
(And, yes, that applies to Frank Zappa, whose music i dearly love.)
--
Who would speak truth should have one foot in the stirrup.
(Church bulletin board, Dunwoody GA)
==========================================================
mike weber <mike....@electronictiger.com>
Book Reviews & More -- http://electronictiger.com
mike weber
typed
Heard an excerpt today from a 1971 interview with Count Basie, who
said he really admired rock music and musicians, and wished he could
play it, but it just wasn't something he could do.
Matthew燘. Tepper
letters to be typed in news:petercat-03D95A.17585307092003@syrcnyrdrs-02-
ge0.nyroc.rr.com:
> [These are the sorts of things you think about while waiting in traffic
> for 90 minutes crossing the border to the US on the way home from TorCon
> and flipping around the radio dial.]
>
> Any sufficiently advanced country music is indistinguishable from rock.
>
> Any sufficiently advanced rock music is indistinguishable from jazz.
And a sufficiently degenerated form of the ancient and honorable art of the
elucutionist is indistinguishable from rap.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Russell Watson is to opera as Velveeta™ is to aged cheddar cheese
Neil Belsky
> I fear this is YMMV, since for me anything written after 1955 is
> indistinguishable from rock, but that doesn't make it necessarily
> advanced.
> Dorothy J. Heydt
You grow old,
You grow old.
Your radio is set for N.P.R. I'm told.
Neil
When a man thinks with his stomach, he forgets his head.
When he thinks with his head, he forgets his heart.
And when he thinks with his heart......
He forgets everything!
Wilson Heydt
Neil Belsky <bea...@medscape.com> wrote:
>On 9/7/03, 5:46:12 PM, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote=20
>
>> I fear this is YMMV, since for me anything written after 1955 is
>> indistinguishable from rock, but that doesn't make it necessarily
>> advanced.
>
>> Dorothy J. Heydt
>
>You grow old,
>You grow old.
>Your radio is set for N.P.R. I'm told.
ACtually...she sets it to KDFC (the last remaining classical station
in the Bay Area) and I set it to KCBS, the surviving all-news
station.
--
Hal Heydt
Albany, CA
My dime, my opinions.
David Dyer-Bennet
Interesting -- because the classical station and the all-news station
here are both NPR (and MPR, Minnesota Public Radio).
--
David Dyer-Bennet, <dd...@dd-b.net>, <www.dd-b.net/dd-b/>
RKBA: <noguns-nomoney.com> <www.dd-b.net/carry/>
Photos: <dd-b.lighthunters.net> Snapshots: <www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/>
Dragaera mailing lists: <dragaera.info/>
Dorothy J Heydt
David Dyer-Bennet <dd...@dd-b.net> wrote:
>whh...@kithrup.com (Wilson Heydt) writes:
>
>> In article <9e0ecf056207523a...@news.teranews.com>,
>> Neil Belsky <bea...@medscape.com> wrote:
>> >On 9/7/03, 5:46:12 PM, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote=20
>> >
>> >> I fear this is YMMV, since for me anything written after 1955 is
>> >> indistinguishable from rock, but that doesn't make it necessarily
>> >> advanced.
>> >
>> >> Dorothy J. Heydt
>> >
>> >You grow old,
>> >You grow old.
>> >Your radio is set for N.P.R. I'm told.
>>
>> ACtually...she sets it to KDFC (the last remaining classical station
>> in the Bay Area) and I set it to KCBS, the surviving all-news
>> station.
>
>Interesting -- because the classical station and the all-news station
>here are both NPR (and MPR, Minnesota Public Radio).
So far as I know the local NPR station is KPFA, Berkeley, which I
don't care to listen to. When I think of NPR I think first of politics
and then of Garrison Keillor, neither of which I like.
Kip Williams
> So far as I know the local NPR station is KPFA, Berkeley, which I
> don't care to listen to. When I think of NPR I think first of politics
> and then of Garrison Keillor, neither of which I like.
I thought KPFA was a Pacifica station, like KPFK and KPFH and so on.
(I think they were the first such, in fact. I did some artwork for
KPFH's program guide when we lived in Houston.)
--
--Kip (Williams) ...at members.cox.net/kipw
"When I go in-to the wood / I see the lit-tle bun-nies, eat-ing
por-ridge as they should. / Those clev-er lit-tle rab-bits!"
--Mother Goosery Rinds
Dorothy J Heydt
>Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>> So far as I know the local NPR station is KPFA, Berkeley, which I
>> don't care to listen to. When I think of NPR I think first of politics
>> and then of Garrison Keillor, neither of which I like.
>
>I thought KPFA was a Pacifica station, like KPFK and KPFH and so on.
>(I think they were the first such, in fact. I did some artwork for
>KPFH's program guide when we lived in Houston.)
Yes they are. Is that to say they can't also be NPR? Because if
there is an NPR station in the Bay Area that isn't KPFA, I never
heard of it.
Wilson Heydt
>> So far as I know the local NPR station is KPFA, Berkeley, which I
>> don't care to listen to. When I think of NPR I think first of politics
>> and then of Garrison Keillor, neither of which I like.
>
>I thought KPFA was a Pacifica station, like KPFK and KPFH and so on.
>(I think they were the first such, in fact. I did some artwork for
>KPFH's program guide when we lived in Houston.)
I beleive that you are both correct about KPFA. There was a
noticable local dustup when Pacifica wanted to do a lot of staff and
format changes at KPFA. This *is* Berkeley we're talking about....
Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr
>Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>> So far as I know the local NPR station is KPFA, Berkeley, which I
>> don't care to listen to. When I think of NPR I think first of politics
>> and then of Garrison Keillor, neither of which I like.
>
>I thought KPFA was a Pacifica station, like KPFK and KPFH and so on.
>(I think they were the first such, in fact. I did some artwork for
>KPFH's program guide when we lived in Houston.)
You thought right.
Bay-Area local NPR stations include KQED (which pissed many people off some
years ago by switching to all-talk from all-classical) and KALW.
-- Alan
--
===============================================================================
Alan Winston --- WIN...@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 650/926-3056
Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA 94025
===============================================================================
Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr
KQED and KALW. You probably stopped listening to KQED when they stopped
playing classical music all the time.
James Angove
I remember that. There were protests and everything, IIRC, although I
didn't see them and its all hearsay. But I'm pretty sure, so that should
be more than sufficent. In any event, KPFA is listener supported radio,
but its not Public Radio in the sense that that term usually means; I
don't know if they get anything from the PRI/NPR feeds though.
The NPR stations in the Bay are KQED (88.5, I think. Something difficult
to tune to on my tiny clock radio, in any event) and KAlW (94 something),
both of which run basicly the same feed on different schedules. Its
handy, since they do the pledge drives at different times -- you can make
your pledge to KQED and then tune up the dial and listen to the other one
for a few days without being pestered constantly. If you're in the bay,
its at least listening to KQED on Sunday afternoons for the City Arts and
Lectures, most of which are excellent. Worth going to, as well, if
you're into that sort of thing.
Just since it occurs to me to wonder, is anyone aware of a public radio
station that lives past 94.5 on your radio dial? I've never encountered
one, to the best of my recollection.
--
James Angove
Dorothy J Heydt
Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr <win...@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> wrote:
>In article <HKxF3...@kithrup.com>, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) writes:
>>In article <3F5D3A21...@cox.net>, Kip Williams <ki...@cox.net> wrote:
>>>Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>>> So far as I know the local NPR station is KPFA, Berkeley, which I
>>>> don't care to listen to. When I think of NPR I think first of politics
>>>> and then of Garrison Keillor, neither of which I like.
>>>
>>>I thought KPFA was a Pacifica station, like KPFK and KPFH and so on.
>>>(I think they were the first such, in fact. I did some artwork for
>>>KPFH's program guide when we lived in Houston.)
>>
>>Yes they are. Is that to say they can't also be NPR? Because if
>>there is an NPR station in the Bay Area that isn't KPFA, I never
>>heard of it.
>
>KQED and KALW. You probably stopped listening to KQED when they stopped
>playing classical music all the time.
I never did listen to KQED, because I didn't know they played
classical music. I did used to watch KQED-TV, mostly when my
kids were young and they were showing Sesame Street and Mr.
Rogers and stuff. But there was always such a great
preponderance of the stuff they wanted to show over the stuff I
wanted to watch.
Kip Williams
As I don't live there, I don't have a very firm idea about it, but
at one time, Pacifica looked down on NPR as being insufficiently
progressive; almost as if they were part of the corporate
establishment. Of course, things do change, so I merely mentioned it
without going into these details.
Kip Williams
I heard echoes of that, and dimly recall them. Did they change to
being an NPR station? Seems there may have been allegations that
they had betrayed the faithful and all that, which sort of fits with
my experience at the one in Houston. I had fun drawing stuff for
them on a volunteer basis, but they always seemed to feel I wasn't
sufficiently ideologically pure and finally let me go. I didn't
mention it before, because it would have involved using the word
"purge," and I didn't want to give any occasion to make any
hilarious japes about digestion at the moment.
Kip Williams
> In article <3F5D3A21...@cox.net>, Kip Williams <ki...@cox.net> writes:
>
>>Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>
>>>So far as I know the local NPR station is KPFA, Berkeley, which I
>>>don't care to listen to. When I think of NPR I think first of politics
>>>and then of Garrison Keillor, neither of which I like.
>>
>>I thought KPFA was a Pacifica station, like KPFK and KPFH and so on.
>>(I think they were the first such, in fact. I did some artwork for
>>KPFH's program guide when we lived in Houston.)
>
> You thought right.
>
> Bay-Area local NPR stations include KQED (which pissed many people off some
> years ago by switching to all-talk from all-classical) and KALW.
Okay. Well, I wasn't sure, so I put it in the vaguest terms
possible, hoping someone with actual knowledge would step up to the
plate. (Speaking of actual knowledge, I keep thinking KQED is in
Pittsburgh; that it's one of those anachronistic "K-" stations in
the East.)
Kip Williams
> I never did listen to KQED, because I didn't know they played
> classical music. I did used to watch KQED-TV, mostly when my
> kids were young and they were showing Sesame Street and Mr.
> Rogers and stuff. But there was always such a great
> preponderance of the stuff they wanted to show over the stuff I
> wanted to watch.
I prefer it that way. Keeps me from watching all the time.
Matt Austern
> whh...@kithrup.com (Wilson Heydt) writes:
>
> > In article <9e0ecf056207523a...@news.teranews.com>,
> > Neil Belsky <bea...@medscape.com> wrote:
> > >On 9/7/03, 5:46:12 PM, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote=20
> > >
> > >> I fear this is YMMV, since for me anything written after 1955 is
> > >> indistinguishable from rock, but that doesn't make it necessarily
> > >> advanced.
> > >
> > >> Dorothy J. Heydt
> > >
> > >You grow old,
> > >You grow old.
> > >Your radio is set for N.P.R. I'm told.
> >
> > ACtually...she sets it to KDFC (the last remaining classical station
> > in the Bay Area) and I set it to KCBS, the surviving all-news
> > station.
>
> Interesting -- because the classical station and the all-news station
> here are both NPR (and MPR, Minnesota Public Radio).
One of the public radio stations here (KQED) was a classical music
station until 15 or 20 years ago. They switched to an all-talk
format, and they made sure the decision was irreversible by getting
rid of their extensive record collection. I wasn't here at the time,
but I know people who were and who are still bitter about the way
this was done.
Matt Austern
> Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr wrote:
> > In article <3F5D3A21...@cox.net>, Kip Williams <ki...@cox.net> writes:
> >
> >>Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> >>
> >>>So far as I know the local NPR station is KPFA, Berkeley, which I
> >>>don't care to listen to. When I think of NPR I think first of politics
> >>>and then of Garrison Keillor, neither of which I like.
> >>
> >> I thought KPFA was a Pacifica station, like KPFK and KPFH and so
> >> on. (I think they were the first such, in fact. I did some artwork
> >> for KPFH's program guide when we lived in Houston.)
> > You thought right.
> > Bay-Area local NPR stations include KQED (which pissed many people
> > off some
> > years ago by switching to all-talk from all-classical) and KALW.
>
> Okay. Well, I wasn't sure, so I put it in the vaguest terms possible,
> hoping someone with actual knowledge would step up to the
> plate. (Speaking of actual knowledge, I keep thinking KQED is in
> Pittsburgh; that it's one of those anachronistic "K-" stations in the
> East.)
You're probably thinking of KDKA.
Andrew Plotkin
> Kip Williams <ki...@cox.net> writes:
>
> > (Speaking of actual knowledge, I keep thinking KQED is in
> > Pittsburgh; that it's one of those anachronistic "K-" stations in the
> > East.)
>
> You're probably thinking of KDKA.
...and WQED.
--Z
"And Aholibamah bare Jeush, and Jaalam, and Korah: these were the borogoves..."
*
* Make your vote count. Get your vote counted.
Dorothy J Heydt
>Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>> I never did listen to KQED, because I didn't know they played
>> classical music. I did used to watch KQED-TV, mostly when my
>> kids were young and they were showing Sesame Street and Mr.
>> Rogers and stuff. But there was always such a great
>> preponderance of the stuff they wanted to show over the stuff I
>> wanted to watch.
>
>I prefer it that way. Keeps me from watching all the time.
Oh, I don't need outside forces to keep me from watching TV all
the time. Far from it.
But there are too many moments when something you don't want
comes on and you can't hit the OFF switch fast enough. E.g., the
time I was in the hospital, my eyes not focusing enough to read,
so I watched a nice little documentary on hedgehogs on KQED.
Then the half-hour was up and the Teletubbies came on. I hit the
OFF switch within microseconds, I'm sure, but that wasn't fast
enough.
And I seldom listen to KDFC any more either, except as an alarm
clock, because the nice classical music is interspersed with
truly sucky commercials. I would rather listen to silence (or
the hum of various computers, which is what I actually get) than
to commercials.
Michael Kube-McDowell
wrote:
Based on a ZIP lookup of 94706, your local NPR stations are:
KQED-FM 88.5
KALW-FM 91.7
KCSM-FM 91.1
and, if you have a very good FM antenna,
KXJZ-FM: 88.9
--
Michael Kube-McDowell, author and packrat
http://k-mac.home.att.net/
VECTORS preview at http://www.sff.net/people/K-Mac/Vectors.htm
Vlatko Juric-Kokic
>since they do the pledge drives at different times -- you can make
>your pledge to KQED
[*]
vlatko
--
http://www.niribanimeso.org/eng/
http://www.michaelswanwick.com/
vlatko.ju...@zg.hinet.hr
Dorothy J Heydt
Vlatko Juric-Kokic <vlatko.ju...@zg.hinet.hr> wrote:
>On 9 Sep 2003 07:28:07 GMT, James Angove <ja...@ospf.net> wrote:
>
>>since they do the pledge drives at different times -- you can make
>>your pledge to KQED
>
>[*]
KQED is one of many "public-supported" radio and TV stations in
the US. They proudly boast that they don't do commercials. But
they have to pay their operating expenses somehow (grants from
foundations and things don't cover them all), so every now and
then they have "pledge night" or "pledge week" where you get the
equivalent of a year's commercials all in a lump, but they're
commercials for the stations itself and public radio/television
in general, and what they want is for you to buy a membership in
the station and/or pledge to donate extra money to them. They
have assorted giveaways like teddy bears and DVDs. At first all
this is slightly less irritating than ordinary commercials,
because some of the pitches are rather clever. But it goes on
and on and on.
Dorothy J. Heydt
Albany, California
David Dyer-Bennet
I can understand that. On the other hand, letting the record
collection sit and decay isn't very good either. (They probably
couldn't keep it in the same nicely controlled environment they
presumably had it in when it was in regular use).
I think it's the television side, but KQED is one I've heard of all
the way out here. They must do (or have done) considerable production
of programs that were more widely distributed. (I watch so little tv
now that I don't know *anything*.)
Kip Williams
> Here, Matt Austern <aus...@well.com> wrote:
>>Kip Williams <ki...@cox.net> writes:
>>
>>>(Speaking of actual knowledge, I keep thinking KQED is in
>>>Pittsburgh; that it's one of those anachronistic "K-" stations in the
>>>East.)
>>
>>You're probably thinking of KDKA.
>
> ...and WQED.
Yes, probably a combination of the two. Quid erat demonstrandum.
Kip Williams
> On Tue, 9 Sep 2003 03:02:17 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
> wrote:
>>In article <3F5D3A21...@cox.net>, Kip Williams <ki...@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>>>Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>>
>>>>So far as I know the local NPR station is KPFA, Berkeley, which I
>>>>don't care to listen to. When I think of NPR I think first of politics
>>>>and then of Garrison Keillor, neither of which I like.
>>>
>>>I thought KPFA was a Pacifica station, like KPFK and KPFH and so on.
>>>(I think they were the first such, in fact. I did some artwork for
>>>KPFH's program guide when we lived in Houston.)
>>
>>Yes they are. Is that to say they can't also be NPR? Because if
>>there is an NPR station in the Bay Area that isn't KPFA, I never
>>heard of it.
>
>
> KQED-FM 88.5
>
> KALW-FM 91.7
>
> KCSM-FM 91.1
>
> and, if you have a very good FM antenna,
>
> KXJZ-FM: 88.9
I looked at KPFA's web site today. Didn't look NPR-ish to me. (I
mention this here as this is the closest to a post to which is would
be responsive.)
SAMK
> PeterCat <pete...@furry.fan.org> wrote in article <petercat-03D95A...@syrcnyrdrs-02-ge0.nyroc.rr.com>:
>
>>[These are the sorts of things you think about while waiting in traffic
>>for 90 minutes crossing the border to the US on the way home from TorCon
>>and flipping around the radio dial.]
>
> I was lucky, and had only about a fifteen minute wait. Also _archy and
> Mehitabelle_ on the tape player. "Toujour gai, archy, toujour gai!"
>
We had no wait at all. We drove right up, answered a couple of
questions, and on we went. Didn't even have to show ID, either way.
SAMK
David Goldfarb
Michael Kube-McDowell <alter...@att.net> wrote:
>KCSM-FM 91.1
Ah, KCSM! That's the NPR station I was forgetting about that I
always used to listen to radio drama on, Sunday nights. I taped
both series of "Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy" off there. I
wonder if they're still doing that?
--
David Goldfarb <*>|"Ah, the stench of evil is about this place!"
gold...@ocf.berkeley.edu | "Actually, I think that's air-freshener."
gold...@csua.berkeley.edu | --_Zot!_ #4
Matthew燘. Tepper
letters to be typed in news:HKynG...@kithrup.com:
KUSC, one of Los Angeles' two classical music stations (the other is KMZT
or "K-Mozart," and is commercial, perhaps too much so), goes overboard with
the pledge drives too. Most irritatingly, when these occur during the
Metropolitan Opera (live) broadcast season, the station will delay the
intermission features until after the opera, in favor of returning to the
studio for more whining. Never mind that these features are themselves an
integral part of the broadcasts, nor that they frequently include lectures
which may illuminate the day's opera, nor that this makes for a terribly
long broadcast when the opera is _Parsifal_ or _Les troyens_; the begging
is all-important!
Fortunately, there are sufficient Webcasting stations which carry the Met,
so at least I can get the intermission features at a delay of just a few
seconds, the buffering time over my DSL connection; but it is irksome and
offensive they still insist on doing this, when they have cleaned up
everything else that was wrong with the station in the Years of Grice.*
* Bonnie Grice is an announcer of meager ability who gained control over
the station in the late 1980s by marrying its General Manager, Wallace
Smith. Her agendas, at least as they appeared to me, included: cutting
sharply back on the amount of time given to playing classical music on the
air; enshrinement of feminist revisionism in music history to a degree
scarcely imaginable (i.e., not merely that Amy Beach's music is worth an
occasional hearing, but "Amy Beach is the Fourth 'B' with Bach, Beethoven,
and Brahms"; and Nannerl Mozart was easily her brother's equal but had no
opportunity to prove it "because she was MARRIED OFF!" [an exact quote]);
achieving an "eclectic mix" by playing pop, rock and blues during the
classical slots; firing the capable, competent and experienced announcers
(no exaggeration; I know a few of them personally, and have received emails
with horror stories from several more) and replacing them with incompetent
cronies; reading letters of complaint on the air and taunting the writers;
making derisive remarks about classical music itself on the air; and so on.
There were numerous letter-writing campaigns advocating an amelioration of
these horrid conditions, both to KUSC itself (with little effect, as noted
above), and in the press; I happily took part in some of these, and often
encouraged others to join me. Ultimately what did the bad regime in was a
$500,000 budget hole that Dr. Smith could not adequately explain to the
trustees of USC (University of Southern California). Smith and Grice had
to submit to the humiliation of public resignations. But for Bonnie there
was to be one more blow. After her husband had left in shame, she handed
in her resignation as of 30 days from the date tendered, and then went on
the air to whine and rail about the poor treatment she received from the
awful people who opposed her. This was sufficient cause for the interim
general manager to call her into his office, inform her that she was being
put on 30 days' leave, and have her escorted out of the building. To me,
this was a fairy-tale ending to a long and gruesome story!
With Smith and Grice but a memory, KUSC gradually undid all of her changes,
except for one; the Met intermissions are still delayed during pledge time.
To my way of thinking, the Bonnie years are not completely over until this
policy has also been terminated; with me it is a matter of principle.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Russell Watson is to opera as Velveeta™ is to aged cheddar cheese
PeterCat
> Just since it occurs to me to wonder, is anyone aware of a public radio
> station that lives past 94.5 on your radio dial? I've never encountered
> one, to the best of my recollection.
As I recall, the FCC originally reserved the lower part of the FM band
for public and nonprofit broadcasters, although this may have changed in
recent years. I think the range was 88.1 to 91.9. I don't think that
prevented a public broadcaster from applying for a higher frequency if
available, but commercial broadcasters couldn't get a frequency in the
lower range. Even so, nowadays a lot of public radio stations are
commercial in all but name.
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Heather Jones
To the best of my knowledge, KPFA is not an NPR station -- the
Pacifica group to which KPFA belongs is a different
non-commercial radio thing. The NPR station you can hear in
Berkeley is KQED, based in San Francisco.
KPFA is (or was, back when I listened to it) noticeably more
political and more politically left than NPR, although I could
understand if someone considerably more to the right than I am
might find the two indistinguishable in that regard.
I suspect you've simply created a mental category "non-commercial
radio" and not distinguished the membership.
Heather
--
*****
Heather Rose Jones
hrj...@socrates.berkeley.edu
*****
Dorothy J Heydt
Heather Jones <hrj...@socrates.berkeley.edu> wrote:
>
>I suspect you've simply created a mental category "non-commercial
>radio" and not distinguished the membership.
Entirely possible.
Keith F. Lynch
> the US. They proudly boast that they don't do commercials.
Are they telling the truth?
a local radio station, WETA, boasts of being non-commercial. I guess
my receiver must be faulty, since I hear lots of commercials on their
frequency. And not just during their quarterly (or is it monthly?)
pledge week.
--
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Matt Austern
> djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:
> > KQED is one of many "public-supported" radio and TV stations in
> > the US. They proudly boast that they don't do commercials.
>
> Are they telling the truth?
Depends on what you count as commercials. KQED (and presumably other
public radio stations too) distinguish between underwriting messages
and advertisements. The distinction seems awfully fuzzy to me, but
they seem to believe that they have some criteria to draw a sharp
line between the two things.
Dorothy J Heydt
Keith F. Lynch <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
>djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:
>> KQED is one of many "public-supported" radio and TV stations in
>> the US. They proudly boast that they don't do commercials.
>
>Are they telling the truth?
Aha, it depends on how you define "commercials."
(a) We've already discussed pledge breaks, pledge weeks, in which
regular programming is interspersed with pleas for money to
support public broadcasting in general and this station in
particular.
(b) In addition the statements that tend to appear at the
beginnings or ends of programs, "This series was funded by grants
from the Fiswick Foundation and General Corporation, Inc.", have
tended to lengthen and become one-minute pitches, in particular
for General Corporation, Inc. It sort of depends on where you
draw the line.
PeterCat
> Depends on what you count as commercials. KQED (and presumably other
> public radio stations too) distinguish between underwriting messages
> and advertisements. The distinction seems awfully fuzzy to me, but
> they seem to believe that they have some criteria to draw a sharp
> line between the two things.
I think the local station I listen to (WAER Syracuse) draws the line at
mention of prices, and phone numbers. They always give the station's
number to call for more info -- clever, since they can then track the
response. In my opinion, if a station broadcasts something in return for
payment (and if they wouldn't broadcast it if they weren't paid), that's
commercial.
--
The Furry InfoPage! <http://www.tigerden.com/infopage/furry/>
pete...@Furry.fan.org (PeterCat) Anthrocon Art Show director
Kate Secor
<petercat-03D95A...@syrcnyrdrs-02-ge0.nyroc.rr.com>,
PeterCat <pete...@furry.fan.org> wrote:
> [These are the sorts of things you think about while waiting in traffic
> for 90 minutes crossing the border to the US on the way home from TorCon
> and flipping around the radio dial.]
>
> Any sufficiently advanced country music is indistinguishable from rock.
Nice to know I'm not the only person who thinks this... I find that
I've started turning to the country stations when I want something that
sounds like proper "rock 'n' roll," although there's a fairly decent mix
station in my area (only took me six months to find it) that does some
proper rock stuff along with a decent selection of "stuff I know all the
words to" and newer things.
Aiglet
(107.3, for those of you in NoVA/DC.)
Kate Secor
"Keith F. Lynch" <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
> djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:
> > KQED is one of many "public-supported" radio and TV stations in
> > the US. They proudly boast that they don't do commercials.
>
> Are they telling the truth?
>
> a local radio station, WETA, boasts of being non-commercial. I guess
> my receiver must be faulty, since I hear lots of commercials on their
> frequency. And not just during their quarterly (or is it monthly?)
> pledge week.
I think the only truly non-commercial station I've found is DC-area 90.1
-- CSpan radio. It's also really interesting listening, as long as you
have a strong stomach or don't mind yelling at the radio sometimes.
Aiglet
Keith F. Lynch
> I think the only truly non-commercial station I've found is DC-area
> 90.1 -- CSpan radio. It's also really interesting listening, as
> long as you have a strong stomach or don't mind yelling at the radio
> sometimes.
I'm not looking so much for non-commercial as I am for non-*talking*.
Something I can listen to while reading and writing.
I understand that stations have to identify themselves hourly, and
might want to briefly identify each piece of music. And if the
program is made possible by a grant from Acme Inc., by all means they
should take a moment to say so. But when they take one minute out of
every ten to say "This totally non-commercial program is made possible
by a grant from Acme Inc., makers of fine anvils, rockets, and other
roadrunner trapping machines, with offices on 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 5th, 8th,
and 13th streets, open noon until midnight except alternate Tuesdays"
that's an ad. And is about as distracting as reading while listening
to 78s, and having to get up and change records every few minutes.
So I almost always leave my radio off, and listen to CDs instead.
Dorothy J Heydt
Keith F. Lynch <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
>
>Something I can listen to while reading and writing.
Oooh yes. KDFC, in addition to having lots of dumb commercials,
has too much talking in its programming.
E.g.: these days about the only program of theirs I actually
*listen* to is Sacred Concert every Sunday morning: two hours of
religious music, the *only* vocal music they ever do, and without
commercials.
Before that comes a kids' program with the most disgustingly
cutesy condescending narrator you can imagine.
After it comes "From the Top," a collection of promising young
musicians doing their thing. This would be fine, except the
idiots who run the show *interview* the young musicians, and you
have to listen two about two minutes' inane talk (how many of us
had anything to say that was worth listening to at seventeen or
so?) to one minute of music. After *that* comes a brunch program
broadcast from a local hotel restaurant, wherein all the hotel
management come and talk aimlessly with the DJ.
Which is why I turn the radio back off at the end of Sacred
Concert.
Keith F. Lynch
> KQED (and presumably other public radio stations too) distinguish
> between underwriting messages and advertisements. The distinction
> seems awfully fuzzy to me, but they seem to believe that they have
> some criteria to draw a sharp line between the two things.
The only distinction I've ever noticed between WETA (supposedly
non-commercial) and WGMS (commercial), is that WETA's ads are less
discordant. I don't know who the advertising geniuses are who think
that hard rock is appopriate for an ad on a classical music station.
But they've ensured that I tune in WGMS only once or twice a year,
as compared with WETA, which I listen to once or twice a week.
On the other hand, I *did* once go to a CD sale after hearing it
advertised on WGMS. I don't think I've ever bought anything due
to an ad (sorry, an "underwriting message") on WETA.
Dorothy J Heydt
Keith F. Lynch <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
>
>that hard rock is appopriate for an ad on a classical music station.
I don't either, but we have our [un]fair share of them in
California.
Way back in bygone days, a no-longer-extant classical music
station called KKHI started running a commercial for Florida
vacations (I think) with a 1950s soft-rock background and a, um,
spokescritter called Al E. Gator. You can imagine what it was
like. Now imagine about ten times as awful as that. After its
umpteenth playing one day, the DJ said something not obscene, but
very unkind about Al and his commercial. The following day, the
DJ was still around, but the soft-rock background wasn't: they
had rewritten the text of the commercial slightly and let the DJ
just read it.
Mind you, my idea of a good commercial is 32 or 64 bars of some
nice Vivaldi or Mozart or somebody, followed by "this moment of
sanity has been brought to you by {name of company}."
Kate Secor
"Keith F. Lynch" <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
> Kate Secor <aig...@nospam.verizon.net> wrote:
> > I think the only truly non-commercial station I've found is DC-area
> > 90.1 -- CSpan radio. It's also really interesting listening, as
> > long as you have a strong stomach or don't mind yelling at the radio
> > sometimes.
>
> I'm not looking so much for non-commercial as I am for non-*talking*.
> Something I can listen to while reading and writing.
>
> I understand that stations have to identify themselves hourly, and
> might want to briefly identify each piece of music. And if the
> program is made possible by a grant from Acme Inc., by all means they
> should take a moment to say so. But when they take one minute out of
> every ten to say "This totally non-commercial program is made possible
> by a grant from Acme Inc., makers of fine anvils, rockets, and other
> roadrunner trapping machines, with offices on 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 5th, 8th,
> and 13th streets, open noon until midnight except alternate Tuesdays"
> that's an ad. And is about as distracting as reading while listening
> to 78s, and having to get up and change records every few minutes.
>
> So I almost always leave my radio off, and listen to CDs instead.
Ah... You want non-annoying radio! Totally different story. I listen
to the radio in the car -- generally at home I'm running MP3s off my
computer.
Aiglet
Cally Soukup
> Mind you, my idea of a good commercial is 32 or 64 bars of some
> nice Vivaldi or Mozart or somebody, followed by "this moment of
> sanity has been brought to you by {name of company}."
There's a (local, I think) TV commercial very like that. Absolute
silence, with some nice scenery for the picture, and then, "This 30
seconds of peace and quiet has been brought to you by So-and-So's
Heating and Cooling". Or something like that. You might say it's not
memorable (since I didn't remember it exactly), but I hardly ever
remember TV commercials anyway.
--
"I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend
to the death your right to say it." -- Beatrice Hall
Cally Soukup sou...@pobox.com
Eu. Harry Andruschak
>
>> I'm not looking so much for non-commercial as I am for non-*talking*.
>> Something I can listen to while reading and writing.
>>
>> I understand that stations have to identify themselves hourly, and
>> might want to briefly identify each piece of music. And if the
>> program is made possible by a grant from Acme Inc., by all means they
>> should take a moment to say so. But when they take one minute out of
>> every ten to say "This totally non-commercial program is made possible
>> by a grant from Acme Inc., makers of fine anvils, rockets, and other
>> roadrunner trapping machines, with offices on 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 5th, 8th,
>> and 13th streets, open noon until midnight except alternate Tuesdays"
>> that's an ad. And is about as distracting as reading while listening
>> to 78s, and having to get up and change records every few minutes.
>>
Yup, that is the way KUSC-FM, 95.1 here in Los Angeles, used to do it. I am not
sure of the why or how of the change, but I have noticed that they now say
something along the lines of "This is KUSC, 91.5 FM, Classical Music,
thoughtfully presented 24 hours a day". The "non-commercial" bit has been
quietly dropped.
All E-mail to this screen name is blocked to thwart spammers
Reply to harryandruschak AT aol DOT com
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LAFF
<ki...@cox.net> wrote:
> Okay. Well, I wasn't sure, so I put it in the vaguest terms
> possible, hoping someone with actual knowledge would step up to the
> plate. (Speaking of actual knowledge, I keep thinking KQED is in
> Pittsburgh; that it's one of those anachronistic "K-" stations in
> the East.)
The PBS station, and its affiliated radio station, in Pittsburgh is
WQED. That plus the fact that two of the three "anachronistic 'K-'
stations in the East" are in Pittsburgh (KDKA and KQV) probably explains
why you keep thinking that.
For me, having grown up with these anomalies, it always seems strange to
me that other people think they're anomalies. Until I stop to remember
that they really are.
(For the record, the third is KYW in Philadelphia.)
--
_
( | Lois Fundis
(*| lfundis (at) weir.net
( | Latitude: 40.398637 (N)
/ | Longitude: -80.599882 (W)
( | http://auntlowey.blogspot.com/
/ |_______
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-- Julian Flood on rec.arts.sf.composition Feb. 2, 2003
Kip Williams
> 'tis said that on Tue, 09 Sep 2003 06:33:01 -0400, Kip Williams
> <ki...@cox.net> wrote:
>
>>Okay. Well, I wasn't sure, so I put it in the vaguest terms
>>possible, hoping someone with actual knowledge would step up to the
>>plate. (Speaking of actual knowledge, I keep thinking KQED is in
>>Pittsburgh; that it's one of those anachronistic "K-" stations in
>>the East.)
>
> The PBS station, and its affiliated radio station, in Pittsburgh is
> WQED. That plus the fact that two of the three "anachronistic 'K-'
> stations in the East" are in Pittsburgh (KDKA and KQV) probably explains
> why you keep thinking that.
Yes. Not to mention that KQV sounds vaguely like KQED if you're not
listening closely.
> For me, having grown up with these anomalies, it always seems strange to
> me that other people think they're anomalies. Until I stop to remember
> that they really are.
>
> (For the record, the third is KYW in Philadelphia.)
I always thought it was cool that my name could be used for station
call letters. And that one or the other of my initials was the
initial of every station in the country. I read somewhere that there
were a couple other letters reserved for future US use; I was
thinking they were N and R. Research seems to confirm the N, but R
was apparently reserved for Russia.
Doug Faunt N6TQS +1-510-655-8604
> I always thought it was cool that my name could be used for station
> call letters. And that one or the other of my initials was the initial
> of every station in the country. I read somewhere that there were a
> couple other letters reserved for future US use; I was thinking they
> were N and R. Research seems to confirm the N, but R was apparently
> reserved for Russia.
>
The US has W, K, N and AA through AL available for the prefix of radio
call signs. N was originally assigned to the US Navy, and is now used
for aircraft identifications, which are often used as call signs, and
for amateur radio call signs. I know of no other use for AA-AL beyond
amateur callsigns (but that doesn't carry much significance).
These assignemnets are also used for aircraft ID's internationally.
73, doug
Matthew燘. Tepper
be typed in news:3F631E32...@cox.net:
> I always thought it was cool that my name could be used for station
> call letters. And that one or the other of my initials was the
> initial of every station in the country. I read somewhere that there
> were a couple other letters reserved for future US use; I was
> thinking they were N and R. Research seems to confirm the N, but R
> was apparently reserved for Russia.
"N" is for use by the U.S. Navy.
Keith F. Lynch
> I always thought it was cool that my name could be used for station
> call letters. And that one or the other of my initials was the
> initial of every station in the country. I read somewhere that
> there were a couple other letters reserved for future US use; I was
> thinking they were N and R. Research seems to confirm the N, but R
> was apparently reserved for Russia.
The US has all of K, N, and W, and half of A. Every letter and every
numeral is allocated to some country. (Canada, for instance, has C
and V, and Mexico X.) Except Q, which is reserved for codes.
Matthew燘. Tepper <oy兀earthlink.net> wrote:
> "N" is for use by the U.S. Navy.
No. I used to be N4TP, and I've never had any connection to the
U.S. Navy.
Matthew燘. Tepper
letters to be typed in news:bjvrn8$r6q$1...@panix1.panix.com:
> Kip Williams <ki...@cox.net> wrote:
>> I always thought it was cool that my name could be used for station
>> call letters. And that one or the other of my initials was the
>> initial of every station in the country. I read somewhere that
>> there were a couple other letters reserved for future US use; I was
>> thinking they were N and R. Research seems to confirm the N, but R
>> was apparently reserved for Russia.
>
> The US has all of K, N, and W, and half of A. Every letter and every
> numeral is allocated to some country. (Canada, for instance, has C
> and V, and Mexico X.) Except Q, which is reserved for codes.
>
> Matthew B. Tepper <oyþ@earthlink.net> wrote:
>> "N" is for use by the U.S. Navy.
>
> No. I used to be N4TP, and I've never had any connection to the
> U.S. Navy.
I see by somebody else's post that I'm way out-of-date on this. Apologies.
Rich McAllister K6RFM
> KAlW (94 something)
91.7
> Just since it occurs to me to wonder, is anyone aware of a public radio
> station that lives past 94.5 on your radio dial? I've never encountered
> one, to the best of my recollection.
The 88-92 MHz subband is reserved for noncommercial stations, and the
FCC always allocates noncommercials there to save the 92-108 range for
commercial stations. KPFAs 94.1 allocation dates back before this
reservation, KPFA being one of the very oldest listener-supported
stations. At one time there was an idea that KPFA could get a
allocation in the 88-92 band and sell the 94.1 slot to a commercial
station for big bucks, but they decided being in the middle of the
band was better for picking up random tuners. Now, I believe all the
Bay Area slots are taken...
Rich
Rich McAllister K6RFM
> I know of no other use for AA-AL beyond
> amateur callsigns
AIR and AAZ are Air Force stations that have participated in Armed Forces
Day amateur exercises.
Rich
Vicki Rosenzweig
-0700:
Along similar lines, WBAI-FM in New York is at 99.5 FM: it's been
there since (I think) 1960, and it got that frequency from a donor at
the time the station was set up. (WBAI and KPFA are, as you know
Rich, both Pacifica stations.)
--
Vicki Rosenzweig | v...@redbird.org
r.a.sf.f faq at http://www.redbird.org/rassef-faq.html
Matthew燘. Tepper
Indeed, and WBAI also has a fannish connection: Fred Kuhn used to work in
their office. He told me once that the call letters really stand for "We
Beg Almost Incessantly."
Kevin J. Maroney
<oy兀earthlink.net> wrote:
>Indeed, and WBAI also has a fannish connection: Fred Kuhn used to work in
>their office. He told me once that the call letters really stand for "We
>Beg Almost Incessantly."
There's a much stronger connection, which is that Jim Freund's
f&sf-oriented radio show "Hour of the Wolf" has been running on WBAI
since about 1975.
--
Kevin J. Maroney | k...@panix.com
Games are my entire waking life.
Niall McAuley
> > Mind you, my idea of a good commercial is 32 or 64 bars of some
> > nice Vivaldi or Mozart or somebody, followed by "this moment of
> > sanity has been brought to you by {name of company}."
>
> There's a (local, I think) TV commercial very like that. Absolute
> silence, with some nice scenery for the picture, and then, "This 30
> seconds of peace and quiet has been brought to you by So-and-So's
> Heating and Cooling".
Guinness used to run one of those when I was little. 30 seconds of
Grieg's piano concerto over a slow zoom-out from a settling pint of
Guinness.
"This 30 seconds of darkness brought to you by Guinness". Very
soothing.