UK-US Linguistic Differences
Rob Hansen
as you do, and it suddenly struck me that an area where there appears
to a surprising number of differences is in babycare. Here are the UK
terms followed by their US equivalent:
pram (perambulator) = baby carriage
push chair = stroller
nappy = diaper
dummy = comforter
Are there others? Are rattles and teething rings known by the same
names over there, f'rinstance?
An area with even more differences, however, appears to be cars, to
whit:
silencer = muffler
bonnet = hood
boot = trunk
bumper = fender
petrol = gasoline
tyre = tire
I'm sure there are more I've missed, too.
Any other areas of great difference? And which terms do Canadians,
Australians, and other English speakers favour?
--
Rob Hansen
=============================================
Home Page: http://www.fiawol.demon.co.uk/rob/
RE-ELECT GORE IN 2004.
Robert Sneddon
<r...@fiawol.demon.co.uk> writes
>I was ruminating about difference in UK/US terminology the other day,
>Any other areas of great difference?
Pronunciation, especially of loan words that have been Nicolled in a
dark alley somewhere.
Coupe, niche, jaguar...
--
Robert Sneddon nojay (at) nojay (dot) fsnet (dot) co (dot) uk
Kris Hasson-Jones
<r...@fiawol.demon.co.uk> posted the following for all the world to
see:
>I was ruminating about difference in UK/US terminology the other day,
>as you do, and it suddenly struck me that an area where there appears
>to a surprising number of differences is in babycare. Here are the UK
>terms followed by their US equivalent:
>
>pram (perambulator) = baby carriage
>push chair = stroller
>nappy = diaper
>dummy = comforter
Never heard it called a comforter: it's a pacifier (note name of my
ISP) or a binky (brand name).
>Are there others?
Hard to say, since I mostly only know the Pacific NW US names for
things (there are some differences, especially compared to the NE US).
>An area with even more differences, however, appears to be cars, to
>whit:
>
>silencer = muffler
>bonnet = hood
>boot = trunk
>bumper = fender
What do you call the bumper, then?
Fender is the part of the car body that goes over the wheel. Bumper
is the usually separate piece, often padded with something resilient,
that is a horizontal bar at the front and rear of the car.
>petrol = gasoline
Mostly just gas.
>tyre = tire
>
>I'm sure there are more I've missed, too.
Pants = awful (?)
What is the UK for moon, as in show someone your buttocks as an
insult?
--
Kris Hasson-Jones sni...@pacifier.com
Jim Battista
news:n2frqukg25qcfnhpq...@4ax.com:
> pram (perambulator) = baby carriage
> push chair = stroller
> nappy = diaper
> dummy = comforter
dummy=pacifier. US comforter == UK duvet-oid but you don't need a
cover, it's built-in.
sprog = *not used*
jumper = sweater
deep fried mars bar = garbage
> An area with even more differences, however, appears to be cars, to
> whit:
>
> silencer = muffler
> bonnet = hood
> boot = trunk
> bumper = fender
Y'all crazy Brits call the piece of sheet steel over the front wheels
the "bumper"? IDNTTMWYTIM.
> petrol = gasoline
> tyre = tire
windscreen = windshield, usually.
*not used* = gun rack
handbrake = parking / emergency brake (weak)
Canadians use some of each. Some of them even say "shite."
--
Jim Battista
A noble spirit embiggens the smallest man.
Michael Kube-McDowell
>An area with even more differences, however, appears to be cars, to
>whit:
>
>silencer = muffler
>bonnet = hood
>boot = trunk
>bumper = fender
>petrol = gasoline
>tyre = tire
>
>I'm sure there are more I've missed, too.
Perhaps--
accumulator = (storage) battery
motorway = freeway / Interstate / superhighway
aerial = antenna
--
Michael Kube-McDowell - author of VECTORS, coming October 29
Pearly the cat and Harry Andruschak
>From: Rob Hansen r...@fiawol.demon.co.uk
>Date: 10/16/02 2:27 PM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: <n2frqukg25qcfnhpq...@4ax.com>
>
>Any other areas of great difference? And which terms do Canadians,
>Australians, and other English speakers favour?
>--
Well, we call them "railroads" in the USA and "railways" in the UK.
All E-mail to this screen name is blocked to thwart spammers.
Reply to harryandruschak AT aol DOT com
"Behold, I am a dry tree." Isaiah 56: 1-8 and Matthew 19: 11,12
Pearly the cat and Harry Andruschak
>From: Robert Sneddon no...@nospam.demon.co.uk
>Date: 10/16/02 2:53 PM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: <a6pSEtAK$dr9...@nojay.fsnet.co.uk>
>
>
> Pronunciation, especially of loan words that have been Nicolled in a
>dark alley somewhere.
>
> Coupe, niche, jaguar...
>
I noticed that when the local classical music radio station began running ads
for the Jaguar automobile. I, and most others I have heard, pronounce it
something like "jag-whar". But the commercial, with a lady using a British
accent, pronounced it something like "jag-you-are".
Dorothy J Heydt
Pearly the cat and Harry Andruschak <pearlya...@aol.com> wrote:
>>Subject: Re: UK-US Linguistic Differences
>>From: Robert Sneddon no...@nospam.demon.co.uk
>>Date: 10/16/02 2:53 PM Pacific Daylight Time
>>Message-id: <a6pSEtAK$dr9...@nojay.fsnet.co.uk>
>>
>for the Jaguar automobile. I, and most others I have heard, pronounce it
>something like "jag-whar". But the commercial, with a lady using a British
>accent, pronounced it something like "jag-you-are".
That's how Flanders and Swann pronounced it.
On hearing it, one of our listeners said, "If you think
you are."
Dorothy J. Heydt
Albany, California
djh...@kithrup.com
http://www.kithrup.com/~djheydt
Arwel Parry
and Harry Andruschak <pearlya...@aol.com> writes
>Well, we call them "railroads" in the USA and "railways" in the UK.
That particular difference is interesting - many of the early documents,
enabling legislation, and suchlike, in the UK also refer to them as
"railroads"; we seem to have definitely settled on "railway" round
about 1850 but quite why, I've no idea.
--
Arwel Parry
http://www.cartref.demon.co.uk/
Kip Williams
> An area with even more differences, however, appears to be cars, to
> whit:
>
> silencer = muffler
> bonnet = hood
> boot = trunk
> bumper = fender
> petrol = gasoline
> tyre = tire
>
> I'm sure there are more I've missed, too.
windscreen = windshield
--
--Kip (Williams) ...at members.cox.net/kipw
Beaver: "Oh, he didn't cheat a whole lot, just enough to win."
Gilbert: "That's all you got to cheat, just enough to win." ("Leave
it to Beaver")
Richard Horton
<r...@fiawol.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>I was ruminating about difference in UK/US terminology the other day,
>as you do, and it suddenly struck me that an area where there appears
>to a surprising number of differences is in babycare. Here are the UK
>terms followed by their US equivalent:
>
>pram (perambulator) = baby carriage
It's true that baby carriage is the more common term over here, but
both pram and perambulator were used. Though nowadays I don't think I
EVER see examples of such a thing. It's all strollers.
>push chair = stroller
>nappy = diaper
>dummy = comforter
>
>Are there others? Are rattles and teething rings known by the same
>names over there, f'rinstance?
>
Yes. What do you call a pacifier? (Nipple-like thing that some
people give their babies to keep them quiet.)
>An area with even more differences, however, appears to be cars, to
>whit:
>
>silencer = muffler
A silencer goes on a gun! <g> (Of course, a muffler goes around your
neck, too.)
>bonnet = hood
>boot = trunk
>bumper = fender
>petrol = gasoline
>tyre = tire
>
>I'm sure there are more I've missed, too.
>
>Any other areas of great difference? And which terms do Canadians,
>Australians, and other English speakers favour?
--
Rich Horton | Stable Email: mailto://richard...@sff.net
Home Page: http://www.sff.net/people/richard.horton
Also visit SF Site (http://www.sfsite.com) and Tangent Online (http://www.tangentonline.com)
Beth Friedman
<n2frqukg25qcfnhpq...@4ax.com>, wrote:
>pram (perambulator) = baby carriage
>push chair = stroller
>nappy = diaper
>dummy = comforter
Not in my neck of the woods, at least. Here, a dummy is always called
a pacifier.
>Any other areas of great difference? And which terms do Canadians,
>Australians, and other English speakers favour?
You might find this site useful, though it's primarily aimed at
non-Brits.
http://www.peevish.co.uk/slang/index.htm
I finally found a definition for "scrubber," though I'd figured it out
pretty much correctly on my own.
--
Beth Friedman
b...@wavefront.com
Julia Jones
<b...@wavefront.com> writes
>On Wed, 16 Oct 2002 22:27:25 +0100, Rob Hansen
><r...@fiawol.demon.co.uk>,
><n2frqukg25qcfnhpq...@4ax.com>, wrote:
>
>a pacifier.
>
>>Any other areas of great difference? And which terms do Canadians,
>>Australians, and other English speakers favour?
>
>You might find this site useful, though it's primarily aimed at
>non-Brits.
>
>http://www.peevish.co.uk/slang/index.htm
>
universes - the page on language differences is here:
http://www.redrosepress.co.uk/language.htm
--
Julia Jones
The suespammers.org mail server is located in California; do not send
unsolicited bulk e-mail or unsolicited commercial e-mail to my suespammers.org
address.
Vlatko Juric-Kokic
<sni...@pacifier.com> wrote:
>Never heard it called a comforter: it's a pacifier (note name of my
>ISP) or a binky (brand name).
Is that why Pratchett's Death's horse is called Binky?
vlatko
--
_Neither Fish Nor Fowl_
http://www.webart.hr/nrnm/eng/
http://www.michaelswanwick.com/
vlatko.ju...@zg.hinet.hr
Vlatko Juric-Kokic
<rrho...@prodigy.net> wrote:
>>pram (perambulator) = baby carriage
>
>It's true that baby carriage is the more common term over here, but
>both pram and perambulator were used.
What is the frame with little wheels called? The one for the babies to
get used to walking?
It looks like it should be called "perambulator", but my dictionary
says it's the formal word for "pram".
Vlatko Juric-Kokic
>Any other areas of great difference?
Well, the famous "bum - hobo" pair ...
raycun
> dummy = comforter
= soother (in Ireland)
Ross Smith
> On Wed, 16 Oct 2002 22:27:25 +0100, Rob Hansen
> <r...@fiawol.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>Any other areas of great difference?
>
> Well, the famous "bum - hobo" pair ...
And then there's "fanny"...
--
Ross Smith ......... r-s...@ihug.co.nz ......... Auckland, New Zealand
"Oh dear. This calls for a very special blend of
psychology and extreme violence." -- Vyvyan
David G. Bell
<Xns92A9B131A8B5...@216.168.3.40>
batt...@unt.edu "Jim Battista" wrote:
> Rob Hansen <r...@fiawol.demon.co.uk> wrote in
> news:n2frqukg25qcfnhpq...@4ax.com:
>
> > An area with even more differences, however, appears to be cars, to
> > whit:
> >
> > silencer = muffler
> > bonnet = hood
> > boot = trunk
> > bumper = fender
>
> Y'all crazy Brits call the piece of sheet steel over the front wheels
> the "bumper"? IDNTTMWYTIM.
It may be that "fender" was used for the "bumper" in the past, but what
you seem to be calling a "fender" would be the "wing" here.
--
David G. Bell -- SF Fan, Filker, and Punslinger.
"Let me get this straight. You're the KGB's core AI, but you're afraid
of a copyright infringement lawsuit over your translator semiotics?"
From "Lobsters" by Charles Stross.
Alan Braggins
> >silencer = muffler
> >bonnet = hood
> >boot = trunk
> >bumper = fender
>
> What do you call the bumper, then?
>
> Fender is the part of the car body that goes over the wheel. Bumper
> is the usually separate piece, often padded with something resilient,
> that is a horizontal bar at the front and rear of the car.
We actually call a bumper a bumper, and call a fender a wing.
(Or a mudguard, on motorbikes and cars with a similar style small
thing over a wheel that is stuck out to the side of the main body,
like a Caterham 7 (basically the same as the Lotus 7 (as seen in
the title sequence of _The Prisoner_))).
Haynes manuals have a long list of car terms in English and
American, but I don't have one with me at the moment.
Google finds more, e.g. http://www.bg-map.com/us-uk.html
(Which says "drive shaft propeller shaft".
In English the propshaft goes front to back (on a front
engined rear wheel drive or four wheel drive car), and
driveshafts go from the differential sideways out to the
wheels. If you call our propshaft a driveshaft, what do you
call our driveshafts?)
> What is the UK for moon, as in show someone your buttocks as an
> insult?
Same thing.
Nancy Lebovitz
Julia Jones <julia...@ajones.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>In message <1qdsqus126km57jnp...@4ax.com>, Beth Friedman
><b...@wavefront.com> writes
>>On Wed, 16 Oct 2002 22:27:25 +0100, Rob Hansen
>><r...@fiawol.demon.co.uk>,
>><n2frqukg25qcfnhpq...@4ax.com>, wrote:
>>
>>a pacifier.
>>
>>>Any other areas of great difference? And which terms do Canadians,
>>>Australians, and other English speakers favour?
>>
>>You might find this site useful, though it's primarily aimed at
>>non-Brits.
>>
>>http://www.peevish.co.uk/slang/index.htm
>>
>There's a site aimed at non-Brits writing fanfic set in British
>universes - the page on language differences is here:
>http://www.redrosepress.co.uk/language.htm
It seems to be completely noun-oriented. Is there anywhere to find
out that Americans say "gotten" and Brits don't?
--
Nancy Lebovitz na...@netaxs.com www.nancybuttons.com 100 new slogans
I want to move to theory. Everything works in theory.
Colette Reap
>On Wednesday, in article
> <Xns92A9B131A8B5...@216.168.3.40>
> batt...@unt.edu "Jim Battista" wrote:
>
>> Rob Hansen <r...@fiawol.demon.co.uk> wrote in
>> news:n2frqukg25qcfnhpq...@4ax.com:
>>
>> > An area with even more differences, however, appears to be cars, to
>> > whit:
>> >
>> > silencer = muffler
>> > bonnet = hood
>> > boot = trunk
>> > bumper = fender
>>
>> Y'all crazy Brits call the piece of sheet steel over the front wheels
>> the "bumper"? IDNTTMWYTIM.
>
>It may be that "fender" was used for the "bumper" in the past, but what
>you seem to be calling a "fender" would be the "wing" here.
There's also
pavement = sidewalk
road = pavement
--
Colette
* "2004: Discworld" * http://www.dwcon.org/ *
* August 20th-23rd, 2004 * Email: in...@dwcon.org *
Richard Horton
<vlatko.ju...@zg.hinet.hr> wrote:
>On Thu, 17 Oct 2002 01:49:30 GMT, Richard Horton
><rrho...@prodigy.net> wrote:
>
>>>pram (perambulator) = baby carriage
>>
>>It's true that baby carriage is the more common term over here, but
>>both pram and perambulator were used.
>
>What is the frame with little wheels called? The one for the babies to
>get used to walking?
>
>It looks like it should be called "perambulator", but my dictionary
>says it's the formal word for "pram".
I believe we called it a "walker". (Though our doctor wouldn't let us
get one for our kids.)
Tony von Krag
Colette Reap <col...@lspace.org> wrote:
> db...@zhochaka.demon.co.uk ("David G. Bell") wrote:
>
> >On Wednesday, in article
> > <Xns92A9B131A8B5...@216.168.3.40>
> > batt...@unt.edu "Jim Battista" wrote:
> >
> >> Rob Hansen <r...@fiawol.demon.co.uk> wrote in
> >> news:n2frqukg25qcfnhpq...@4ax.com:
> >>
> >> > An area with even more differences, however, appears to be cars, to
> >> > whit:
> >> >
> >> > silencer = muffler
> >> > bonnet = hood
> >> > boot = trunk
> >> > bumper = fender
> >>
> >> Y'all crazy Brits call the piece of sheet steel over the front wheels
> >> the "bumper"? IDNTTMWYTIM.
> >
> >It may be that "fender" was used for the "bumper" in the past, but what
> >you seem to be calling a "fender" would be the "wing" here.
>
> There's also
>
> pavement = sidewalk
> road = pavement
spanners = wrenches
braces = suspenders
tony
--
Chef Anthony von Krag ACF retired
Have spices & cast iron cookware, will travel
User of sharp knives, Washer of hands and cutting boards
You want Me!!! To cook *THAT* well done?
Doug Faunt N6TQS +1-510-655-8604
> In article <2satqu8rs6h7cdhai...@4ax.com>,
> Colette Reap <col...@lspace.org> wrote:
>
> > db...@zhochaka.demon.co.uk ("David G. Bell") wrote:
> >
> > >On Wednesday, in article
> > > <Xns92A9B131A8B5...@216.168.3.40>
> > > batt...@unt.edu "Jim Battista" wrote:
> > >
> > >> Rob Hansen <r...@fiawol.demon.co.uk> wrote in
> > >> news:n2frqukg25qcfnhpq...@4ax.com:
> > >>
> > >> > An area with even more differences, however, appears to be cars, to
> > >> > whit:
> > >> >
> > >> > silencer = muffler
> > >> > bonnet = hood
> > >> > boot = trunk
> > >> > bumper = fender
> > >>
> > >> Y'all crazy Brits call the piece of sheet steel over the front wheels
> > >> the "bumper"? IDNTTMWYTIM.
> > >
> > >It may be that "fender" was used for the "bumper" in the past, but what
> > >you seem to be calling a "fender" would be the "wing" here.
> >
> > There's also
> >
> > pavement = sidewalk
> > road = pavement
>
> spanners = wrenches
> braces = suspenders
>
wheel brace = lug wrench
73, doug
Dorothy J Heydt
Nancy Lebovitz <na...@unix1.netaxs.com> wrote:
>>http://www.redrosepress.co.uk/language.htm
>
>It seems to be completely noun-oriented. Is there anywhere to find
>out that Americans say "gotten" and Brits don't?
But we only say "gotten" under some circumstances, and I
would have to sit down and think for a long while to try
to specify them. One of the telltales showing that a
Brit has tried to write Yank dialog is the use of
"gotten" in places the Yank wouldn't use it.
Dorothy J Heydt
Vlatko Juric-Kokic <vlatko.ju...@zg.hinet.hr> wrote:
>On Wed, 16 Oct 2002 22:27:25 +0100, Rob Hansen
><r...@fiawol.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>Any other areas of great difference?
>
>Well, the famous "bum - hobo" pair ...
Both words are used in America. Traditional
distinction: a hobo will work and move on; a tramp
will mooch and move on; a bum will mooch and hang
around.
Dave Weingart
>An area with even more differences, however, appears to be cars, to
>whit:
>
>silencer = muffler
>bonnet = hood
>boot = trunk
>bumper = fender
>tyre = tire
>
>I'm sure there are more I've missed, too.
kerb = curb
--
73 de Dave Weingart KA2ESK Quinze Filk Festival (15th UK Filkcon)
mailto:phyd...@liii.com Feb 7-9,2003, Ipswich, England
http://www.liii.com/~phydeaux http://www.contabile.org.uk/
ICQ 57055207 qui...@contabile.org.uk
Dave Weingart
>engined rear wheel drive or four wheel drive car), and
>driveshafts go from the differential sideways out to the
>wheels. If you call our propshaft a driveshaft, what do you
>call our driveshafts?)
Axles.
Dave Weingart
>What is the frame with little wheels called? The one for the babies to
>get used to walking?
In the US, it's usually a walker.
Kris Hasson-Jones
<rrho...@prodigy.net> posted the following for all the world to see:
>On Thu, 17 Oct 2002 09:17:56 +0200, Vlatko Juric-Kokic
><vlatko.ju...@zg.hinet.hr> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 17 Oct 2002 01:49:30 GMT, Richard Horton
>><rrho...@prodigy.net> wrote:
>>
>>>>pram (perambulator) = baby carriage
>>>
>>>It's true that baby carriage is the more common term over here, but
>>>both pram and perambulator were used.
>>
>>What is the frame with little wheels called? The one for the babies to
>>get used to walking?
>>
>>It looks like it should be called "perambulator", but my dictionary
>>says it's the formal word for "pram".
>
>I believe we called it a "walker". (Though our doctor wouldn't let us
>get one for our kids.)
I don't think anyone even markets those in the US anymore;
pediatricians say they don't help kids learn to walk, and they're too
dangerous. Now we have the same things, but without the wheels, so
the kid stays in one place.
--
Kris Hasson-Jones sni...@pacifier.com
Nancy Lebovitz
Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
>In article <dlxr9.770$Ve3.4...@monger.newsread.com>,
>Nancy Lebovitz <na...@unix1.netaxs.com> wrote:
>
>>>http://www.redrosepress.co.uk/language.htm
>>
>>It seems to be completely noun-oriented. Is there anywhere to find
>>out that Americans say "gotten" and Brits don't?
>
>But we only say "gotten" under some circumstances, and I
>would have to sit down and think for a long while to try
>to specify them. One of the telltales showing that a
That's fine. Cat-vacuuming is *supposed* to take a while.
>Brit has tried to write Yank dialog is the use of
>"gotten" in places the Yank wouldn't use it.
In general, I've seen Brits get Yank dialogue wrong by putting in
too many Yank markers. I'm sure that Yanks make the same mistake
when they try to write Brit dialogue.
Julia Jones
<na...@unix1.netaxs.com> writes
>In article <tGgglAKI...@jajones.demon.co.uk>,
>Julia Jones <julia...@ajones.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>There's a site aimed at non-Brits writing fanfic set in British
>>universes - the page on language differences is here:
>>http://www.redrosepress.co.uk/language.htm
>
>It seems to be completely noun-oriented. Is there anywhere to find
>out that Americans say "gotten" and Brits don't?
Don't have a reference off-hand, although I'm sure I've seen one
somewhere. And some Brits *do* say gotten, even if Turnpike's
spellchecker doesn't like the word. Go through Chambers and you'll find
quite a few words marked "arch., Scot., and US" - that's one of them.
Some of it's a lot subtler. I'm on a one writer's workshop list that's
mainly US membership, and there have been a couple of cases of an
American going through and correcting someone's English, completely
failing to recognise that they're attempting to impose US English on a
story written by a British author, with a British narrator and set in
Britain - and their "corrected" version is the one with poor English,
from a British English speaker's perspective.
I mentioned in a different thread that "solicitor" doesn't seem to mean
the same thing in Silicon Valley as it does in the UK. As far as I'm
concerned, "no soliciting" signs along a road suggest that the police
are trying to clamp down on men slowly driving along the road asking any
woman they see what their rates are for different sex acts. Here it
means that they're trying to clamp down on people driving slowly along
the road looking for Mexican day labourers willing to do casual work at
less than minimum wages. And it seems that the "no solicitors" version
on private property means "no door-to-door salesman, charity collectors,
evangelists and other door-knocking nuisances", not "no lawyers".
Andrew Plotkin
> In article <dlxr9.770$Ve3.4...@monger.newsread.com>,
> Nancy Lebovitz <na...@unix1.netaxs.com> wrote:
>>>http://www.redrosepress.co.uk/language.htm
>>
>>It seems to be completely noun-oriented. Is there anywhere to find
>>out that Americans say "gotten" and Brits don't?
> But we only say "gotten" under some circumstances, and I
> would have to sit down and think for a long while to try
> to specify them.
One more thing I knew and didn't know I knew. (As part of absorbing
American English as a native tongue, I mean, not me specially.)
Well, I'm sitting down so I'll try the thinking part...
"Gotten" is only used with perfect tenses ("had gotten home", "has
gotten home", "will have gotten home").
"Gotten" is used when "got" is in the sense of "arrived at" ("has
gotten home"). It is also used when "got" is in the sense of
"acquired" ("has gotten the lantern", meaning "he just went and got
it").
But it is *not* used when "got" is in the sense of "possesses" ("has
got the lantern", meaning "he now carries it"). This is a weird and
subtle distinction, more so since the latter sense clearly derives
from the former -- he now carries it *because* he went and got it. But
the two usages have these two distinct meanings, signalled by "gotten"
vs "got".
Did I miss anything?
--Z
"And Aholibamah bare Jeush, and Jaalam, and Korah: these were the borogoves..."
*
* Make your vote count. Get your vote counted.
Andrew Plotkin
> I mentioned in a different thread that "solicitor" doesn't seem to mean
> the same thing in Silicon Valley as it does in the UK. As far as I'm
> concerned, "no soliciting" signs along a road suggest that the police
> are trying to clamp down on men slowly driving along the road asking any
> woman they see what their rates are for different sex acts. Here it
> means that they're trying to clamp down on people driving slowly along
> the road looking for Mexican day labourers willing to do casual work at
> less than minimum wages. And it seems that the "no solicitors" version
> on private property means "no door-to-door salesman, charity collectors,
> evangelists and other door-knocking nuisances", not "no lawyers".
Although putting up a "No Solicitors" sign on a house in the UK would
be a nice, subtle joke.
(To be *really* nice, the sign would have to be on the British Embassy
in Washington DC.)
David Dyer-Bennet
> On Thu, 17 Oct 2002 01:49:30 GMT, Richard Horton
> <rrho...@prodigy.net> wrote:
>
> >>pram (perambulator) = baby carriage
> >
> >It's true that baby carriage is the more common term over here, but
> >both pram and perambulator were used.
>
> What is the frame with little wheels called? The one for the babies to
> get used to walking?
"Walker"
--
David Dyer-Bennet, dd...@dd-b.net / http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/
John Dyer-Bennet 1915-2002 Memorial Site http://john.dyer-bennet.net
Dragaera mailing lists, see http://dragaera.info
David Dyer-Bennet
> db...@zhochaka.demon.co.uk ("David G. Bell") wrote:
>
> >On Wednesday, in article
> > <Xns92A9B131A8B5...@216.168.3.40>
> > batt...@unt.edu "Jim Battista" wrote:
> >
> >> Rob Hansen <r...@fiawol.demon.co.uk> wrote in
> >> news:n2frqukg25qcfnhpq...@4ax.com:
> >>
> >> > An area with even more differences, however, appears to be cars, to
> >> > whit:
> >> >
> >> > silencer = muffler
> >> > bonnet = hood
> >> > boot = trunk
> >> > bumper = fender
> >>
> >> Y'all crazy Brits call the piece of sheet steel over the front wheels
> >> the "bumper"? IDNTTMWYTIM.
> >
> >It may be that "fender" was used for the "bumper" in the past, but what
> >you seem to be calling a "fender" would be the "wing" here.
>
> There's also
>
> pavement = sidewalk
> road = pavement
Pavement is the stuff *on* both the road and the sidewalk, here.
David Dyer-Bennet
> Google finds more, e.g. http://www.bg-map.com/us-uk.html
>
> (Which says "drive shaft propeller shaft".
> In English the propshaft goes front to back (on a front
> engined rear wheel drive or four wheel drive car), and
> driveshafts go from the differential sideways out to the
> wheels. If you call our propshaft a driveshaft, what do you
> call our driveshafts?)
Rear axle.
Julia Jones
<na...@unix1.netaxs.com> writes
>In general, I've seen Brits get Yank dialogue wrong by putting in
>too many Yank markers. I'm sure that Yanks make the same mistake
>when they try to write Brit dialogue.
Do they ever! <wince> You can tell when someone's been reading too much
Wodehouse...
People, if you're writing dialogue in another dialect - get it checked
by a native speaker of that dialect. Preferably several, as there are
variations *within* a major dialect - I have personal experience of
being told by a Mancunian (person from Manchester, in the midlands of
England, with a distinct dialect of its own) that something I'd written
was in American English, when it was in fact a vaguely Southern England
idiom that she happened to be unfamiliar with. And a lot of English
English speakers will tell you things like "Brits don't use gotten",
when in fact certain British dialects do.
On the other hand, you do get Americans who can deal with some varieties
of British English flawlessly. Such as the Anglophile net friend of mine
who seems to have submersed herself in British literature. When I
finally met her in person, it took me a while to work out what was so
odd about her speech - I don't often hear British English spoken with a
US accent:-)
Alan Braggins
> I mentioned in a different thread that "solicitor" doesn't seem to mean
> the same thing in Silicon Valley as it does in the UK. As far as I'm
> concerned, "no soliciting" signs along a road suggest that the police
> are trying to clamp down on men slowly driving along the road asking any
> woman they see what their rates are for different sex acts.
"Soliciting" is the offense committed by the women offering sex, not the
men looking for it. They are kerb-crawling, also an offense. The principle
is that innocent passersby shouldn't have to be offended either by being
asked if they want sex, or if they will provide it.
This (together with restrictions of advertizing and other things)
makes it very difficult for a prostitute and customer to get together
legally. But we'd like to pretend it doesn't happen, so that's not a
problem....
Michael Kube-McDowell
wrote:
>Colette Reap <col...@lspace.org> writes:
>
>> There's also
>>
>> pavement = sidewalk
>> road = pavement
>
>Pavement is the stuff *on* both the road and the sidewalk, here.
And the playground and parking lot, for that matter.
But has anyone mentioned
Tar-Macadam = asphalt
yet?
--
Michael Kube-McDowell - author of VECTORS, coming October 29
Alan Braggins
> One day in Teletubbyland, Alan Braggins <ar...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> said:
> >engined rear wheel drive or four wheel drive car), and
> >driveshafts go from the differential sideways out to the
> >wheels. If you call our propshaft a driveshaft, what do you
> >call our driveshafts?)
>
> Axles.
So what do you call what we call axles?
On a rear wheel drive car, the front wheels have axles (specifically
stub axles), but not driveshafts. (And the same for the rear wheels on
a front wheel drive car).
With independent suspension the driveshaft is connected to the both
the axle and the differential by CV (constant velocity) joints. (With a
live rear axle I think the driveshaft is inside the axle, except the
end of the driveshaft is also an axle).
Brett Paul Dunbar
<r...@fiawol.demon.co.uk> writes
>An area with even more differences, however, appears to be cars, to
>whit:
>bumper = fender
Actually it's:
wing = fender
--
Great Internet Mersenne Prime Search http://www.mersenne.org/prime.htm
Brett Paul Dunbar
To email me, use reply-to address
Janet Kegg
>><n2frqukg25qcfnhpq...@4ax.com>, wrote:
>>
>>a pacifier.
>>
>>>Any other areas of great difference? And which terms do Canadians,
>>>Australians, and other English speakers favour?
>>
>>You might find this site useful, though it's primarily aimed at
>>non-Brits.
>>
>>http://www.peevish.co.uk/slang/index.htm
>>
>universes - the page on language differences is here:
>http://www.redrosepress.co.uk/language.htm
http://englishclub.8m.com/ukus1.htm
-- Janet
Julia Jones
<ar...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> writes
>Julia Jones <jaj...@suespammers.org> writes:
>> I mentioned in a different thread that "solicitor" doesn't seem to mean
>> the same thing in Silicon Valley as it does in the UK. As far as I'm
>> concerned, "no soliciting" signs along a road suggest that the police
>> are trying to clamp down on men slowly driving along the road asking any
>> woman they see what their rates are for different sex acts.
>
>"Soliciting" is the offense committed by the women offering sex, not the
>men looking for it. They are kerb-crawling, also an offense.
Use of the word "kerb-crawling" in a thread about linguistic differences
seemed inadvisable without *lots* of explanation.
>The principle
>is that innocent passersby shouldn't have to be offended either by being
>asked if they want sex, or if they will provide it.
>This (together with restrictions of advertizing and other things)
>makes it very difficult for a prostitute and customer to get together
>legally. But we'd like to pretend it doesn't happen, so that's not a
>problem....
While I'm sympathetic to the problems prostitutes have, I also don't
think that innocent passers-by should be subjected to the behaviour of
the kerb-crawlers in particular. It's not just offensive - it's often
extremely threatening. The prostitutes can be aggressive as well.
Advertizing - there's another one where the differences aren't quite
what many people think. -ize *is* standard usage in British English, but
somewhere along the line there's grown up this notion that it's some
filthy American invention, and many British people now insist that -ise
must be used for everything, not just a small group of words (mostly
derived from French). Advertising is, of course, one of the exceptions
where -ize is inappropriate if you're not American:-)
aRJay
Hasson-Jones <sni...@pacifier.com> writes
>On Wed, 16 Oct 2002 22:27:25 +0100, Rob Hansen
>see:
>
>>I was ruminating about difference in UK/US terminology the other day,
>>as you do, and it suddenly struck me that an area where there appears
>>to a surprising number of differences is in babycare. Here are the UK
>>terms followed by their US equivalent:
>>
<snip>
>>An area with even more differences, however, appears to be cars, to
>>whit:
>>
>>bonnet = hood
>>boot = trunk
>>bumper = fender
>
>
Bumper.
>Fender is the part of the car body that goes over the wheel. Bumper
>is the usually separate piece, often padded with something resilient,
>that is a horizontal bar at the front and rear of the car.
>
The bodywork over the wheel in a modern car is the wing, on an old
enough car it would be the mudguard.
>What is the UK for moon, as in show someone your buttocks as an
>insult?
Moon.
--
"The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that
English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow
words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down
alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new
vocabulary." James Nicoll -- aRJay
Jonathan J. Baker
>One day in Teletubbyland, Alan Braggins <ar...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> said:
>>engined rear wheel drive or four wheel drive car), and
>>driveshafts go from the differential sideways out to the
>>wheels. If you call our propshaft a driveshaft, what do you
>>call our driveshafts?)
>Axles.
Then there are the Israeli extrapolations: the rear axle is "backax",
while the front axle is "backax kidmi" (front back-axle).
--
Jonathan Baker | Marches-wan, marches-two,
jjb...@panix.com | March the months all through and through
Web page <http://www.panix.com/~jjbaker>
Jonathan J. Baker
>On Thu, 17 Oct 2002 12:52:02 GMT, Richard Horton
>><vlatko.ju...@zg.hinet.hr> wrote:
>>>What is the frame with little wheels called? The one for the babies to
>>>get used to walking?
>>I believe we called it a "walker". (Though our doctor wouldn't let us
>>get one for our kids.)
>I don't think anyone even markets those in the US anymore;
>pediatricians say they don't help kids learn to walk, and they're too
>dangerous. Now we have the same things, but without the wheels, so
>the kid stays in one place.
The same things exist in larger sizes, some with and some without
wheels, for elderly people who have trouble walking, but aren't so
far gone that they need a wheelchair for everything. The adult ones
are also called "walkers".
Jonathan J. Baker
>Well, I'm sitting down so I'll try the thinking part...
>"Gotten" is only used with perfect tenses ("had gotten home", "has
>gotten home", "will have gotten home").
>"Gotten" is used when "got" is in the sense of "arrived at" ("has
>gotten home"). It is also used when "got" is in the sense of
>"acquired" ("has gotten the lantern", meaning "he just went and got
>it").
>But it is *not* used when "got" is in the sense of "possesses" ("has
>got the lantern", meaning "he now carries it"). This is a weird and
>subtle distinction, more so since the latter sense clearly derives
>from the former -- he now carries it *because* he went and got it. But
>the two usages have these two distinct meanings, signalled by "gotten"
>vs "got".
>Did I miss anything?
Ill-booten gotty?
Jonathan J. Baker
>Alan Braggins <ar...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> writes:
>> wheels. If you call our propshaft a driveshaft, what do you
>> call our driveshafts?)
>Rear axle.
Roundabout = traffic circle
Lorry = truck
[Railroad] Car = carriage
[Railroad] Switch, turnout = points
Jonathan J. Baker
>On 17 Oct 2002 11:24:20 -0500, David Dyer-Bennet <dd...@dd-b.net>
>But has anyone mentioned
>Tar-Macadam = asphalt
Or, more narrowly,
tarmac = runway
Julia Jones
<jjb...@panix.com> writes
>The same things exist in larger sizes, some with and some without
>wheels, for elderly people who have trouble walking, but aren't so
>far gone that they need a wheelchair for everything. The adult ones
>are also called "walkers".
"zimmer frames"
David G. Bell
dd...@dd-b.net "David Dyer-Bennet" wrote:
> Alan Braggins <ar...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> writes:
>
> > Google finds more, e.g. http://www.bg-map.com/us-uk.html
> >
> > (Which says "drive shaft propeller shaft".
> > In English the propshaft goes front to back (on a front
> > engined rear wheel drive or four wheel drive car), and
> > driveshafts go from the differential sideways out to the
> > wheels. If you call our propshaft a driveshaft, what do you
> > call our driveshafts?)
>
> Rear axle.
Not in a Mini.
(The real ones...)
You can have an axle which doesn't have driven wheels.
--
David G. Bell -- SF Fan, Filker, and Punslinger.
"Let me get this straight. You're the KGB's core AI, but you're afraid
of a copyright infringement lawsuit over your translator semiotics?"
From "Lobsters" by Charles Stross.
David G. Bell
ar...@chiark.greenend.org.uk "Alan Braggins" wrote:
And with a live axle, the driveshaft is also called a halfshaft.
Priscilla H Ballou
>An area with even more differences, however, appears to be cars, to
>whit:
>silencer = muffler
>bonnet = hood
>boot = trunk
>bumper = fender
Bumpers are also bumpers.
>petrol = gasoline
>tyre = tire
>I'm sure there are more I've missed, too.
To fix that car, you might need a spanner = wrench.
What do folks in the UK call what we call a jack? You know, to raise the
car up to replace the flat tyre = tire?
Priscilla
--
"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."
- Albert Einstein
Priscilla H Ballou
>On Wed, 16 Oct 2002 22:27:25 +0100, Rob Hansen
><r...@fiawol.demon.co.uk> posted the following for all the world to
>see:
>>dummy = comforter
>Never heard it called a comforter: it's a pacifier (note name of my
>ISP) or a binky (brand name).
Oh! I thought he was talking about duvet/comforter.
Joel Rosenberg
--
Quiet, you kids! If I hear one more word, Bart doesn't get to watch
cartoons and Lisa doesn't get to go to college.
-- Homer Simpson
Oh Brother, Where Art Thou?
------------------------------------------------------------
http://islamthereligionofpeace.blogspot.com
Marty Helgesen
> In article <tGgglAKI...@jajones.demon.co.uk>,
> Julia Jones <julia...@ajones.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >In message <1qdsqus126km57jnp...@4ax.com>, Beth Friedman
> ><b...@wavefront.com> writes
> >><n2frqukg25qcfnhpq...@4ax.com>, wrote:
> >>
<SNIP>
> It seems to be completely noun-oriented. Is there anywhere to find
> out that Americans say "gotten" and Brits don't?
There's an old joke about an Englishman just back from an extended
visit in the United States who sent his wife a telegram saying, "Have
gotten tickets to the opera. Meet me there tonight." When he arrived
she was there with eight friends.
--
Marty Helgesen
Bitnet: mnhcc@cunyvm Internet: mn...@cunyvm.cuny.edu
"'Ye shall be like gods, knowing the difference between good and
evil.'
Offer void where prohibited by law." -- Mark Shea
Help outlaw spam. For further information see http://www.cauce.org/
Jonathan J. Baker
>Well, I'm sitting down so I'll try the thinking part...
>"Gotten" is only used with perfect tenses ("had gotten home", "has
>gotten home", "will have gotten home").
>"Gotten" is used when "got" is in the sense of "arrived at" ("has
>gotten home"). It is also used when "got" is in the sense of
>"acquired" ("has gotten the lantern", meaning "he just went and got
>it").
>But it is *not* used when "got" is in the sense of "possesses" ("has
>got the lantern", meaning "he now carries it"). This is a weird and
>subtle distinction, more so since the latter sense clearly derives
>from the former -- he now carries it *because* he went and got it. But
>the two usages have these two distinct meanings, signalled by "gotten"
>vs "got".
>Did I miss anything?
Ill-booten gotty? I suppose that's "obtained", "acquired".
Or "he has gotten her with seed"?
Jonathan J. Baker
>In message <aon1vj$mnj$5...@reader1.panix.com>, Jonathan J. Baker
><jjb...@panix.com> writes
>>The same things exist in larger sizes, some with and some without
>>wheels, for elderly people who have trouble walking, but aren't so
>>far gone that they need a wheelchair for everything. The adult ones
>>are also called "walkers".
>"zimmer frames"
For an inventor named "Zimmer", or from the German name for "room"
(since it does look like framing for a room, vaguely)?
Arthur D. Hlavaty
<jjb...@panix.com> wrote:
>In <aomn4h$jrl$1...@reader1.panix.com> Andrew Plotkin <erky...@eblong.com> writes:
>
>>Well, I'm sitting down so I'll try the thinking part...
>
>>"Gotten" is only used with perfect tenses ("had gotten home", "has
>>gotten home", "will have gotten home").
>
>>"Gotten" is used when "got" is in the sense of "arrived at" ("has
>>gotten home"). It is also used when "got" is in the sense of
>>"acquired" ("has gotten the lantern", meaning "he just went and got
>>it").
>
>>But it is *not* used when "got" is in the sense of "possesses" ("has
>>got the lantern", meaning "he now carries it"). This is a weird and
>>subtle distinction, more so since the latter sense clearly derives
>>from the former -- he now carries it *because* he went and got it. But
>>the two usages have these two distinct meanings, signalled by "gotten"
>>vs "got".
>
>>Did I miss anything?
>
>Ill-booten gotty?
No, no, that's a mafioso with cheap shoes.
--
Arthur D.Hlavaty hla...@panix.com
Church of the SuperGenius in Wile E. we trust
E-zine available on request
Andrew Plotkin
> In <> Andrew Plotkin <erky...@eblong.com> writes:
>>Well, I'm sitting down so I'll try the thinking part...
>>"Gotten" is only used with perfect tenses ("had gotten home", "has
>>gotten home", "will have gotten home").
>>"Gotten" is used when "got" is in the sense of "arrived at" ("has
>>gotten home"). It is also used when "got" is in the sense of
>>"acquired" ("has gotten the lantern", meaning "he just went and got
>>it").
>>But it is *not* used when "got" is in the sense of "possesses" ("has
>>got the lantern", meaning "he now carries it"). This is a weird and
>>subtle distinction, more so since the latter sense clearly derives
>>from the former -- he now carries it *because* he went and got it. But
>>the two usages have these two distinct meanings, signalled by "gotten"
>>vs "got".
>>Did I miss anything?
> Ill-booten gotty? I suppose that's "obtained", "acquired".
Assuming you mean "ill-gotten booty", it's certainly "acquired" (the
ill describes the manner of its acquisition, not anything about the
possession of it.)
Is it a perfect-tense form? I guess that's a meaningless question --
it's the adjectivial form of a verb, whatever that's called. I can't
think of any exceptions, so I will add that as a case.
> Or "he has gotten her with seed"?
Dunno if that's either American *or* UK English; it's Oldish English.
--Z
"And Aholibamah bare Jeush, and Jaalam, and Korah: these were the borogoves..."
*
* Make your vote count. Get your vote counted.
Romanadvoratrelundar
Julia Jones <jaj...@suespammers.org> wrote:
>
> Advertizing - there's another one where the differences aren't quite
> what many people think. -ize *is* standard usage in British English, but
> somewhere along the line there's grown up this notion that it's some
> filthy American invention, and many British people now insist that -ise
> must be used for everything, not just a small group of words (mostly
> derived from French). Advertising is, of course, one of the exceptions
> where -ize is inappropriate if you're not American:-)
It's inappropriate if you -are- American. M-w.com thinks it's only
appropriate if you're British. I'm not sure it's excusable at all.
--
Copyright 2002 Kylee Peterson. Still no hyperlinks allowed.
"I sometimes wonder how people are able to maintain relationships without
animal noises." -- Arthur D. Hlavaty
Chris Malme
news:GaZqySat...@jajones.demon.co.uk:
> >It seems to be completely noun-oriented. Is there anywhere to
> >find out that Americans say "gotten" and Brits don't?
>
> Don't have a reference off-hand, although I'm sure I've seen one
> somewhere. And some Brits *do* say gotten, even if Turnpike's
> spellchecker doesn't like the word. Go through Chambers and
> you'll find quite a few words marked "arch., Scot., and US" -
> that's one of them.
Thank goodness for that - I was beginnning to think I had fallen in
from that alternate timeline again.
I've used "gotten" all my life (born in Essex, brought up in London),
although the glottal stop might make my pronounciation a little
different from the American or Scots.
--
Chris
Minstrel's Hall of Filk - http://www.filklore.com
Filklore Music Store - http://www.filklore.co.uk
Julia Jones
<sky...@drizzle.com> writes
>In article <E26qJWnj...@jajones.demon.co.uk>,
>Julia Jones <jaj...@suespammers.org> wrote:
>>
>> Advertizing - there's another one where the differences aren't quite
>> what many people think. -ize *is* standard usage in British English, but
>> somewhere along the line there's grown up this notion that it's some
>> filthy American invention, and many British people now insist that -ise
>> must be used for everything, not just a small group of words (mostly
>> derived from French). Advertising is, of course, one of the exceptions
>> where -ize is inappropriate if you're not American:-)
>
>It's inappropriate if you -are- American. M-w.com thinks it's only
>appropriate if you're British. I'm not sure it's excusable at all.
>
spelling? It's used occasionally, but it's not the accepted spelling
(unless something's changed in the most recent dictionary editions), and
is in usage guides as being specifically one of the words where the
etymology means that it's -ise. (I have to look them up occasionally -
years of fighting with word processors that believe British English must
use -ise for everything have destroyed my wetware spellchecker.)
And yes, I was careless in my wording - I only meant to emphasise that
you do not have to be American to use -ize, not to suggest that
Americans never use -ise.
Julia Jones
<mins...@filklore.com> writes
>Julia Jones <jaj...@suespammers.org> wrote in
>news:GaZqySat...@jajones.demon.co.uk:
>
>> >It seems to be completely noun-oriented. Is there anywhere to
>> >find out that Americans say "gotten" and Brits don't?
>>
>> Don't have a reference off-hand, although I'm sure I've seen one
>> somewhere. And some Brits *do* say gotten, even if Turnpike's
>> spellchecker doesn't like the word. Go through Chambers and
>> you'll find quite a few words marked "arch., Scot., and US" -
>> that's one of them.
>
>Thank goodness for that - I was beginnning to think I had fallen in
>from that alternate timeline again.
>
>I've used "gotten" all my life (born in Essex, brought up in London),
>although the glottal stop might make my pronounciation a little
>different from the American or Scots.
>
as some people think.
Now let's discuss the term "dinner", and its relationship to both class
and region...
David Dyer-Bennet
> On 17 Oct, in article <m28z0xt...@gw.dd-b.net>
> dd...@dd-b.net "David Dyer-Bennet" wrote:
>
> > Alan Braggins <ar...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> writes:
> >
> > > Google finds more, e.g. http://www.bg-map.com/us-uk.html
> > >
> > > (Which says "drive shaft propeller shaft".
> > > In English the propshaft goes front to back (on a front
> > > engined rear wheel drive or four wheel drive car), and
> > > driveshafts go from the differential sideways out to the
> > > wheels. If you call our propshaft a driveshaft, what do you
> > > call our driveshafts?)
> >
> > Rear axle.
>
> Not in a Mini.
>
> (The real ones...)
>
> You can have an axle which doesn't have driven wheels.
Well, the example was specifically a real-wheel or four-wheel drive
car, so I just answered in those terms.
In US English "axle" is independent of whether it's driven or not.
--
David Dyer-Bennet, dd...@dd-b.net / http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/
John Dyer-Bennet 1915-2002 Memorial Site http://john.dyer-bennet.net
Dragaera mailing lists, see http://dragaera.info
Marilee J. Layman
<jjb...@panix.com> wrote:
>In <om> Kris Hasson-Jones <sni...@pacifier.com> writes:
>>On Thu, 17 Oct 2002 12:52:02 GMT, Richard Horton
>>><vlatko.ju...@zg.hinet.hr> wrote:
>
>>>>What is the frame with little wheels called? The one for the babies to
>>>>get used to walking?
>
>>>I believe we called it a "walker". (Though our doctor wouldn't let us
>>>get one for our kids.)
>
>>I don't think anyone even markets those in the US anymore;
>>pediatricians say they don't help kids learn to walk, and they're too
>>dangerous. Now we have the same things, but without the wheels, so
>>the kid stays in one place.
>
>The same things exist in larger sizes, some with and some without
>wheels, for elderly people who have trouble walking, but aren't so
>far gone that they need a wheelchair for everything. The adult ones
>are also called "walkers".
Mine doesn't have wheels, but if I had to start using one a lot more,
I'd get a Rollator, which is a brand name for a very spiffy type of
walker.
--
Marilee J. Layman
Bali Sterling Beads at Wholesale
http://www.basicbali.com
Michael Kube-McDowell
<jaj...@suespammers.org> wrote:
>And yes, I was careless in my wording - I only meant to emphasise that
>you do not have to be American to use -ize, not to suggest that
>Americans never use -ise.
<scratching head> I can't recall ever seeing "advertize" or
"advertizing" over here on the Left Bank of the Atlantic.
--
Michael Kube-McDowell - author of VECTORS, coming October 29
Kris Hasson-Jones
<p...@shell01.TheWorld.com> posted the following for all the world to
see:
>Kris Hasson-Jones <sni...@pacifier.com> quoth:
>>On Wed, 16 Oct 2002 22:27:25 +0100, Rob Hansen
>><r...@fiawol.demon.co.uk> posted the following for all the world to
>>see:
>
>>>dummy = comforter
>
>>Never heard it called a comforter: it's a pacifier (note name of my
>>ISP) or a binky (brand name).
>
>Oh! I thought he was talking about duvet/comforter.
I humbly point out I only knew what he meant by dummy because I've
read Dorothy Dunnett's "Dolly and the Nanny Bird."
--
Kris Hasson-Jones sni...@pacifier.com
Lucy Kemnitzer
Heydt) wrote:
>In article <20021016190130...@mb-ck.aol.com>,
>Pearly the cat and Harry Andruschak <pearlya...@aol.com> wrote:
>>>Subject: Re: UK-US Linguistic Differences
>>>From: Robert Sneddon no...@nospam.demon.co.uk
>>>Date: 10/16/02 2:53 PM Pacific Daylight Time
>>>Message-id: <a6pSEtAK$dr9...@nojay.fsnet.co.uk>
>>>
>>I noticed that when the local classical music radio station began running ads
>>for the Jaguar automobile. I, and most others I have heard, pronounce it
>>something like "jag-whar". But the commercial, with a lady using a British
>>accent, pronounced it something like "jag-you-are".
>
>That's how Flanders and Swann pronounced it.
>
>On hearing it, one of our listeners said, "If you think
>you are."
>
Hereabouts, where "jagger"or sometimes "jag" is a very rude word for a
person who claims blue and is more likely a recent arrival from Mexico
or Central America, _any_ word anywhere near it in sound will elicit
sniggers from the younger set. So that pronunciation would receive
such a response in my classroom. As did "juggernaut."
"Scraps" is another such word, rude for those who claim red.
Sigh. English is a minefield. Maybe a whorish minefield, but a
minefield.
Lucy Kemnitzer
David Bilek
>
>Hereabouts, where "jagger"or sometimes "jag" is a very rude word for a
>person who claims blue and is more likely a recent arrival from Mexico
>or Central America, _any_ word anywhere near it in sound will elicit
>sniggers from the younger set. So that pronunciation would receive
>such a response in my classroom. As did "juggernaut."
>
>"Scraps" is another such word, rude for those who claim red.
>
>Sigh. English is a minefield. Maybe a whorish minefield, but a
>minefield.
>
What does "claiming blue" mean?
-David
Lucy Kemnitzer
<ar...@cartref.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>In message <20021016185814...@mb-ck.aol.com>, Pearly the cat
>and Harry Andruschak <pearlya...@aol.com> writes
>>Well, we call them "railroads" in the USA and "railways" in the UK.
>
>That particular difference is interesting - many of the early documents,
>enabling legislation, and suchlike, in the UK also refer to them as
>"railroads"; we seem to have definitely settled on "railway" round
>about 1850 but quite why, I've no idea.
>
Railway is occasionally used and never sounds alien in the US.
Lucy Kemnitzer
(yeah, I know, it's "I've been working on the railroad all the
livelong day" versus "I was wearing corduroy britches, digging
ditches, dodging hitches, working on the railway" but it's not a
defining difference like some of those other things)
Lucy Kemnitzer
<vlatko.ju...@zg.hinet.hr> wrote:
>On Thu, 17 Oct 2002 01:49:30 GMT, Richard Horton
><rrho...@prodigy.net> wrote:
>
>>>pram (perambulator) = baby carriage
>>
>>It's true that baby carriage is the more common term over here, but
>>both pram and perambulator were used.
>
>What is the frame with little wheels called? The one for the babies to
>get used to walking?
It's called a walker and you shouldn't put babies in them. If you get
one for your baby, let them push it from the outside.
>
>It looks like it should be called "perambulator", but my dictionary
>says it's the formal word for "pram".
>
Lucy Kemnitzer
Lucy Kemnitzer
<sni...@pacifier.com> wrote:
>On Thu, 17 Oct 2002 12:52:02 GMT, Richard Horton
><rrho...@prodigy.net> posted the following for all the world to see:
>
>>On Thu, 17 Oct 2002 09:17:56 +0200, Vlatko Juric-Kokic
>><vlatko.ju...@zg.hinet.hr> wrote:
>>
>>>On Thu, 17 Oct 2002 01:49:30 GMT, Richard Horton
>>><rrho...@prodigy.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>pram (perambulator) = baby carriage
>>>>
>>>>It's true that baby carriage is the more common term over here, but
>>>>both pram and perambulator were used.
>>>
>>>What is the frame with little wheels called? The one for the babies to
>>>get used to walking?
>>>
>>>It looks like it should be called "perambulator", but my dictionary
>>>says it's the formal word for "pram".
>>
>>I believe we called it a "walker". (Though our doctor wouldn't let us
>>get one for our kids.)
>
>I don't think anyone even markets those in the US anymore;
>pediatricians say they don't help kids learn to walk, and they're too
>dangerous. Now we have the same things, but without the wheels, so
>the kid stays in one place.
When the young man was a baby somebody gave me one and I let him push
it around from the outside. Used that way it was good clean fun and
not really more dangerous than being a baby already is.
The kind of tabley thing that you plop the kid into and they're held
upright and sort of confined but also sort of suspended loosely in
thin air is sort of the worst of both worlds. My own belief is either
put the kid in a backpack or something, or let the kid squiggle on the
floor. Swaddled or free, I guess, is how I feel about it.
I'm a lousy housekeeper, but I managed to do this safely with two of
them.
Lucy Kemnitzer
Dorothy J Heydt
Lucy Kemnitzer <rit...@cruzio.com> wrote:
>
>Hereabouts, where "jagger"or sometimes "jag" is a very rude word for a
>person who claims blue and is more likely a recent arrival from Mexico
>or Central America, _any_ word anywhere near it in sound will elicit
>sniggers from the younger set. So that pronunciation would receive
>such a response in my classroom. As did "juggernaut."
>
>"Scraps" is another such word, rude for those who claim red.
Dorothy J. Heydt
Albany, California
djh...@kithrup.com
http://www.kithrup.com/~djheydt
Julia Jones
<kubemc...@excite.com.invalid> writes
>On Thu, 17 Oct 2002 15:04:53 -0700, Julia Jones
><jaj...@suespammers.org> wrote:
>
>>And yes, I was careless in my wording - I only meant to emphasise that
>>you do not have to be American to use -ize, not to suggest that
>>Americans never use -ise.
>
><scratching head> I can't recall ever seeing "advertize" or
>"advertizing" over here on the Left Bank of the Atlantic.
>
that American English also uses -ise for that group of words; the
difference is that Americans (not sure if that includes Canadians) use
-ize for the ones where both -ise or -ize are acceptable, and the
British in theory use either, but in practice have a large segment with
this odd notion that -ize is some grotesque American neologism and we
should be using -ise for everything. The "-ise only" words are derived
from French, my Fowler informs me, but not being a student of language I
have to take Birchfield's word for it. (I must try to get a *real*
Fowler's, I much prefer the grumpy old bastard to the third edition by
someone else, even if the second edition is out of date.)
I remember the wailing editorial in the Times some years ago about
having finally decided to give in to the barbarians and abandon -ize, in
part because they were fed up with the constant flow of letters
complaining about them using American spellings. I'm not sure whether
the Oxford University Press has given in yet.
Which is why I find it odd that "advertize" can be seen occasionally in
the UK:-) Perhaps it's people like me, who have been trained by evil
word-processors to use -ise for everything if they don't want to be
constantly beeped at, then rebel, but have forgotten which words
actually do need ise. I know I've caught myself doing it when I'm in a
"sod off, *I* use -ize" mood. Advertize is the one I seem particularly
prone to, so I think I've been exposed to that spelling at some stage.
Kip Williams
> db...@zhochaka.demon.co.uk ("David G. Bell") writes:
>
>
>>On 17 Oct, in article <m28z0xt...@gw.dd-b.net>
>> dd...@dd-b.net "David Dyer-Bennet" wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Alan Braggins <ar...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> writes:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Google finds more, e.g. http://www.bg-map.com/us-uk.html
>>>>
>>>>(Which says "drive shaft propeller shaft".
>>>>In English the propshaft goes front to back (on a front
>>>>engined rear wheel drive or four wheel drive car), and
>>>>driveshafts go from the differential sideways out to the
>>>>wheels. If you call our propshaft a driveshaft, what do you
>>>>call our driveshafts?)
>>>
>>>Rear axle.
>>
>>Not in a Mini.
>>
>>(The real ones...)
>>
>>You can have an axle which doesn't have driven wheels.
>
> Well, the example was specifically a real-wheel or four-wheel drive
> car, so I just answered in those terms.
Real-wheel's what they drive in Practice, as opposed to in Theory.
--
--Kip (Williams) ...at members.cox.net/kipw
Beaver: "Oh, he didn't cheat a whole lot, just enough to win."
Gilbert: "That's all you got to cheat, just enough to win." ("Leave
it to Beaver")
Lucy Kemnitzer
Heydt) wrote:
>In article <acosqugjs876ohvn5...@news.cis.dfn.de>,
>Vlatko Juric-Kokic <vlatko.ju...@zg.hinet.hr> wrote:
>>On Wed, 16 Oct 2002 22:27:25 +0100, Rob Hansen
>><r...@fiawol.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>Any other areas of great difference?
>>
>>Well, the famous "bum - hobo" pair ...
>
>Both words are used in America. Traditional
>distinction: a hobo will work and move on; a tramp
>will mooch and move on; a bum will mooch and hang
>around.
>
Tramp is a generic word, or used to be among tramps, meaning any guy
who was on the move. Hobo was a word that people used for themselves
when they were proud of being migratory workers, free, independent,
and untainted by acquisitive values. Bum sometimes meant a moocher
who didn't move on, but sometimes it was the same as tramp. As in
"Hallelujah, I'm a Bum," or "On the Bum Again."
Haywire Mac is as usual the ultimate authority. Wobs made their most
spectacular mark in the migrant field, as you can see when you peruse
"The Little Red Songbook" and see how many of the songs and poems are
about that life.
For modern tramp life, there is no better source for most of us than
U.Utah Phillips, whose whole life seems to be an homage to the man
Haywire Mac ought to have been and almost was.
Lucy Kemnitzer
Michael Kube-McDowell
<jaj...@suespammers.org> wrote:
>In message <WNIr9.82227$NW3.20582@sccrnsc03>, Michael Kube-McDowell
><kubemc...@excite.com.invalid> writes
>>On Thu, 17 Oct 2002 15:04:53 -0700, Julia Jones
>><jaj...@suespammers.org> wrote:
>>
>>>And yes, I was careless in my wording - I only meant to emphasise that
>>>you do not have to be American to use -ize, not to suggest that
>>>Americans never use -ise.
>>
>><scratching head> I can't recall ever seeing "advertize" or
>>"advertizing" over here on the Left Bank of the Atlantic.
>>
>I have seen it, but assumed that it was an error. My understanding was
>that American English also uses -ise for that group of words; the
>difference is that Americans (not sure if that includes Canadians) use
>-ize for the ones where both -ise or -ize are acceptable,
I would say that "advertise," "advertising," and "advertisement" are
quite solidly the normal American spellings. Neither of my
dictionaries (the one-hander and the two-hands-and-lap variants) even
list an alternate spelling. If the "-ize" spelling has -any- traction
here, it has to be on a regional basis (in a region I've not spent
time in).
>and the
>British in theory use either, but in practice have a large segment with
>this odd notion that -ize is some grotesque American neologism
Don't blame us for this one. (We have enough to answer for.)
Michael J. Lowrey
> >>>Any other areas of great difference?
> >>
> >>Well, the famous "bum - hobo" pair ...
Umm, I believe Dorothy was referring to the British usage,
wherein one's bum is what one sits upon.
--
Michael J. Lowrey
Beth Friedman
<jaj...@suespammers.org>, <E26qJWnj...@jajones.demon.co.uk>,
wrote:
>Advertizing - there's another one where the differences aren't quite
>what many people think. -ize *is* standard usage in British English, but
>somewhere along the line there's grown up this notion that it's some
>filthy American invention, and many British people now insist that -ise
>must be used for everything, not just a small group of words (mostly
>derived from French). Advertising is, of course, one of the exceptions
>where -ize is inappropriate if you're not American:-)
Eh? It's inappropriate if you _are_ American. It's always
"advertising," unless I'm missing something.
--
Beth Friedman
b...@wavefront.com
Ulrika O'Brien
r...@fiawol.demon.co.uk says...
> Any other areas of great difference?
Brits can't pronounce mallard.
Lessee:
stores = shops
package = parcel
trash can = rubbish bin
sweater = jumper
jumper = ????
around = about
balls = bollocks
wrench = spanner
sidewalk = pavement
pavement = ????
windshield = windscreen (there's another automotive one)
There must be loads more, but I'm pulling a blank at the mo.
--
"thonk outside the bqx" --Ray Radlein
Ulrika O'Brien*Philosopher without Portfolio
Ulrika O'Brien
no...@nospam.demon.co.uk says...
> In article <n2frqukg25qcfnhpq...@4ax.com>, Rob Hansen
> <r...@fiawol.demon.co.uk> writes
> >I was ruminating about difference in UK/US terminology the other day,
>
> >Any other areas of great difference?
>
> dark alley somewhere.
>
> Coupe, niche, jaguar...
Chaise longue = chaise lounge
But how do the great British prounounce "niche"?
Julia Jones
<kubemc...@excite.com.invalid> writes
>On Thu, 17 Oct 2002 18:54:18 -0700, Julia Jones
><jaj...@suespammers.org> wrote:
>
>I would say that "advertise," "advertising," and "advertisement" are
>quite solidly the normal American spellings. Neither of my
>dictionaries (the one-hander and the two-hands-and-lap variants) even
>list an alternate spelling. If the "-ize" spelling has -any- traction
>here, it has to be on a regional basis (in a region I've not spent
>time in).
Let me try again. I agree that advertize is not American usage. I did
not intend to imply that advertize is a widespread American usage, but
was careless with my wording in my first post. It is one of a group of
words for which -ise is the only spelling, whether in British or
American English.
>
>>and the
>>British in theory use either, but in practice have a large segment with
>>this odd notion that -ize is some grotesque American neologism
>
>Don't blame us for this one. (We have enough to answer for.)
>
I don't. I find it bizarre that others do. The creation of *new* words
in -ize seems to be something that is more common in American English
than British English (although not as common as is suggested), but -ize
itself has a very long history of usage in British English, and I have
been known to shove Fowler in front of people who have tried the "but
that's *American* spelling!" nonsense on me. Even with Fowler and the
OED being waved at them, some people will continue to insist that it's
the influence of those dreadful colonials.
I do wonder if it's come in part from criticism of American English for
the perceived eagerness to form new words in -ize - it's possible that
people have then extrapolated from this to believe that *any* spelling
in -ize must be American. A question for the English usage groups, I
suppose.
Having checked the aue Faq
http://www.alt-usage-english.org/excerpts/fxizevsi.html
I found the comment:
(At least, they're *almost* always spelled that way: "advertize",
"merchandize", and "surprize" ARE listed in some U.S. college
dictionaries, but are not the usual forms anywhere.)
but sadly no reference to the idea that -ize is a purely American form.
I really must get a second edition Fowler - I think he said something
about this, but it's several years since I last had access to a copy and
I can't remember exactly what he said.
Ulrika O'Brien
Oh, yeah, and foodstuffs:
zucchini = courgette
eggplant = aubergine
cilantro = coriander
whole grain/wheat = wholemeal
mince = hamburger/ground beef (or pork, or whatever)
cookies = biscuits
biscuits = god knows
candy = sweets
tape = sticky tape (oops, not a foodstuff)
Marilee J. Layman
wrote:
The VRE is Virginia Railway Express.
Marilee J. Layman
LAFF
<jaj...@suespammers.org> wrote:
> In message <jkAr9.774$vZ6.5...@newshog.newsread.com>, Nancy Lebovitz
> <na...@unix1.netaxs.com> writes
> >In general, I've seen Brits get Yank dialogue wrong by putting in
> >too many Yank markers. I'm sure that Yanks make the same mistake
> >when they try to write Brit dialogue.
>
> Do they ever! <wince> You can tell when someone's been reading too much
> Wodehouse...
There's such a thing as too much Wodehouse?
--
Lois Fundis lfu...@weir.net
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Cockpit/9377/handy-dandy.html
"Perhaps the two most valuable and satisfactory products of American
civilization are the librarian on the one hand and the cocktail
in the other." -- attributed to Louis Stanley Jast
David Dyer-Bennet
> Real-wheel's what they drive in Practice, as opposed to in Theory.
*IT IS?* HOOOORAY! I'm living in theory! And have been since
1977.
I did have part-ownership of one Practical vehicle, a van, for a few
years in the early 80s.
Jordin Kare
> On Wed, 16 Oct 2002 22:27:25 +0100, Rob Hansen
> <r...@fiawol.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >An area with even more differences, however, appears to be cars, to
> >whit:
> >
> >silencer = muffler
> >bonnet = hood
> >boot = trunk
> >bumper = fender
> >petrol = gasoline
> >tyre = tire
> >
> >I'm sure there are more I've missed, too.
>
> Perhaps--
>
> accumulator = (storage) battery
> motorway = freeway / Interstate / superhighway
> aerial = antenna
And on matters electrical:
Valve = tube
Valve makes much more sense; I've no idea how we ended up with something
as illogical as "tube." "Bulb" I could understand.
wireless = radio
condenser = capacitor
--
Jordin Kare
"Don't count your photons before they're emitted"
Jordin Kare
> In article <20021016190130...@mb-ck.aol.com>,
> Pearly the cat and Harry Andruschak <pearlya...@aol.com> wrote:
> >>Subject: Re: UK-US Linguistic Differences
> >>From: Robert Sneddon no...@nospam.demon.co.uk
> >>Date: 10/16/02 2:53 PM Pacific Daylight Time
> >>Message-id: <a6pSEtAK$dr9...@nojay.fsnet.co.uk>
> >>
> >I noticed that when the local classical music radio station began running ads
> >for the Jaguar automobile. I, and most others I have heard, pronounce it
> >something like "jag-whar". But the commercial, with a lady using a British
> >accent, pronounced it something like "jag-you-are".
>
> That's how Flanders and Swann pronounced it.
>
> On hearing it, one of our listeners said, "If you think
> you are."
As I think I've said here before:
XK-150, E-Type, XJS: "Jag-u-were"
XJ8, XK8, S-Type: "Jag-u-are"
F-Type: "Jag-u-willbe"
Rob Hansen
<rrho...@prodigy.net> wrote:
>>dummy = comforter
>>
>>Are there others? Are rattles and teething rings known by the same
>>names over there, f'rinstance?
>>
>
>Yes. What do you call a pacifier? (Nipple-like thing that some
>people give their babies to keep them quiet.)
Dummy. I misremembered when I wrote 'comforter'. For some reason I
thought 'pacifier' was what you call a truncheon.
--
Rob Hansen
=============================================
Home Page: http://www.fiawol.demon.co.uk/rob/
RE-ELECT GORE IN 2004.
Julia Jones
O'Brien <uaob...@earthlink.net> writes
>tape = sticky tape (oops, not a foodstuff)
That's an interesting one. It's often known by the name of the most
popular good-quality brand. So it's Sellotape in the UK, and Durex in
Australia.
In the UK, Durex is a brand name used by the London Rubber Company for
their product most often used by the general public, and as brand names
often are, is also used as a generic term for that item regardless of
manufacturer.
One of my teachers in Australia spent a couple of years working in the
UK, and apparently made a most unfortunate mistake when he asked for
something to put up a notice with in the staffroom one day...
Vlatko Juric-Kokic
You mean, me?
'Cause I remembered it from _Witches Abroad_, where Pratchett has
exactly that distinction.
vlatko
--
_Neither Fish Nor Fowl_
http://www.webart.hr/nrnm/eng/
http://www.michaelswanwick.com/
vlatko.ju...@zg.hinet.hr
Vlatko Juric-Kokic
wrote:
>Valve = tube
>
>Valve makes much more sense; I've no idea how we ended up with something
>as illogical as "tube." "Bulb" I could understand.
Um, why?
For instance, it's "electronic tube" here, and I'd thought it'd be
self-evident from the shape. What makes "valve" a better choice?
ObRealWorld: there's an AOpen motherboard with integrated sound, which
uses a tube for the amplifier. Funny to see. Even funnier is that the
tube is made by SovieTek. Apparently nobody else manufactures tubes
cheaply enough.
Mark Atwood
>
> Oh, yeah, and foodstuffs:
>
> zucchini = courgette
> eggplant = aubergine
> cilantro = coriander
> whole grain/wheat = wholemeal
> mince = hamburger/ground beef (or pork, or whatever)
Isn't this backwards?
> cookies = biscuits
> biscuits = god knows
> candy = sweets
> tape = sticky tape (oops, not a foodstuff)
--
Mark Atwood | Well done is better than well said.
m...@pobox.com |
http://www.pobox.com/~mra
Mark Atwood
>
> That's an interesting one. It's often known by the name of the most
> popular good-quality brand. So it's Sellotape in the UK, and Durex in
> Australia.
Quite often in the US, it's "Scotch Tape", even tho I believe that
that specific brand (by 3M, I think?) hasn't existed for some decades now.
David Bilek
>Julia Jones <jaj...@suespammers.org> writes:
>>
>> That's an interesting one. It's often known by the name of the most
>> popular good-quality brand. So it's Sellotape in the UK, and Durex in
>> Australia.
>
>Quite often in the US, it's "Scotch Tape", even tho I believe that
>that specific brand (by 3M, I think?) hasn't existed for some decades now.
Eh? I picked up some Scotch tape (yes, by 3M) a few days ago. It's
still kicking.
-David
Dorothy J Heydt
It's complex. What a Brit would call a biscuit, a Yank
would probably call a cookie if it's sweet, a cracker if
it isn't. What a Yank would call a biscuit, a Brit
would probably call, "Erm, it's a scone, isn't it? no it
isn't, not if you're serving it with butter and gravy on
for dinner."
Meanwhile, what a Yank calls potato chips a Brit calls
crisps, and what the Brit calls chips the Yank calls
{French} fries.