Ansible 166 [long]
David Langford
ANSIBLE 166
MAY 2001
From DAVE LANGFORD, 94 London Road, Reading, Berkshire, RG1 5AU. ISSN
0265-9816. E-mail ans...@cix.co.uk. Fax 0705 080 1534. Available for
SAE, or Limestone Islands in the Sky.
[NET NOTE. Please see the last section for subscribe/unsubscribe
information: such requests should NOT be sent to my personal e-mail
address. DRL]
PARAGON. Despite advance worries about a hotel on a remote motorway
junction surrounded by foot-and-mouth quarantine, the 2001 UK Eastercon
seemed rather successful. The sheer weirdness of the Hanover Hotel
helped, with its window displays of extraordinary kitsch (`Have you seen
the garrotted baby, the sperm balloons, the Marilyn Monroe with a rooster
on her head?' -- Cheryl Morgan) and oddities like the mirror-ceilinged
lobby with a statue of Poseidon to whose mighty trident fans
surreptitiously affixed a giant slice of toast. (We name no names, but
Chris Bell looked as if she knew something.) David B.Wake confirms that
the programme's highlight was the dramatic extravaganza _20:01 -- A
Sunday Odyssey_, written by and starring David B.Wake, and cruelly
renamed _20:25_ after a few technical hitches; the mind reeled at dancing
monoliths and a final dystopian vision of the actor-manager himself clad
only in a vast nappy. _Ansible_ spent too much time in the bar but also
enjoyed the fan room, masterminded by a singularly genial Greg
Pickersgill and deeply littered with arcane fannish memorabilia. One
amusing vignette was D.West's stern refusal even to smile as others
roared at the slide show of hideous past embarrassments presented by fan
guests Claire Brialey and Mark Plummer. To the alarm of GoH Stephen M.
Baxter, a debate about how future fan rooms might be presented led to my
memory-challenged suggestion that they should be dedicated to `The
Stephen R.Baxter Appreciation Society', with us devoted `Baxies' wearing
glowing blue rings of exotic matter on our foreheads. Steve later
reported from this parallel continuum: `I was moved to be present at the
birth of the Stephen R.Baxter Appreciation Society. Speaking to me
through his exotic-matter-encrusted ringpiece, the great man wishes to
commend his followers for their obeisance, notes that the universe he
inhabits remains a warm and fluffy place, assures us that the stump is
healing nicely, thank you, and urges us always to remember: In Case Of
Emergency, Break Laws Of Physics.' Other guests Mike Scott Rohan and
Lisanne Norman somehow managed to escape hideous Langford gaffes; Mike
deliriously babbled, `They gave _me_ an executive suite -- two loos, a
PC in the living room and _three_ rubber ducks in the bath. Suddenly I
understood Howard Hughes a little better....' [] THE USUAL AWARDS were
presented. _BSFA:_ NOVEL Mary Gentle, _Ash: A Secret History_; SHORT
Peter F.Hamilton, `The Suspect Genome' (_Interzone_ 156); ARTWORK Dominic
Harman, _Hideaway_ (_IZ_ 157). _Doc Weir:_ Noel Collyer, ingeniously
lured from the bar by claims that police wanted to interrogate him.
_Richard Evans Memorial Award_ for writers whose critical acclaim drowns
out the feeble tinkling of the cash register: Gwyneth Jones. _Paper
Tiger_ art show award: Jay Hurst. [] Best personal egoboo: signing my
first copies of the reissued _The Leaky Establishment_ (Introduction By
Terry Pratchett), rushed to Paragon by splendid Ben Jeapes of Big Engine.
Best forgotten: four days of the identical hotel cheap-food menu, cheap
beyond all possible cheapness, and tasting that way too. [] Total body
count: 814 at last report. Lots of thanks to Paragon's hard-working
committee. Something tells me the Eastercon may return one day to the
Hanover Hotel.
### SECRET PLACES AND MEAN MEN ###
PETER F.HAMILTON was rapidly informed of his BSFA award: `Eric Brown who
kindly picked it up for me thought this was important enough for me to
be told without delay. My apologies to Eric for sounding less than
gracious when the phone went at 11:30 that night, while I was still on
my honeymoon.'
MICHAEL MOORCOCK, as always, provided Astral Knowledge and True Facts:
`Re Finnish mosquitoes. Many years ago if you had been crossing the
Arctic tundra up where Finland and Sweden meet, you would have seen a man
who appeared to be made entirely of mosquitoes. I, too, Langford, made
light of the Finnish mosquito. It is the only part of the world where
they sell mosquito guns. They are two gauges up from elephant guns. I
climbed Portafjellet, the highest local mountain, simply in order to get
away from the mosquitoes. This is true. The last mosquito tried to make
it up to the altitude to follow me -- and failed. I had the considerable
pleasure of sitting two thirds of the way up a glacier, creaking with
water running under it, and watching the last mosquito make a brave
attempt to reach me. It fell back. And then all I had to worry about was
getting home to London.'
PHILIP PULLMAN `was named the British Booksellers Association's Author
of the Year, prevailing over J.K.Rowling, Jamie Oliver, Ian Rankin,
Joanne Harris, and Jacqueline Wilson.' (_Bookseller_) [PL]
ANTHONY ROBERTS is suing Turner Prize nominee Glenn Brown for basing _The
Loves of Shepherds 2000_ on AR's 1974 cover art for _Double Star_. Chris
Foss has a similar complaint about Brown `appropriating' his cover design
for _Diary of a Spaceperson_ (1990). A Tate spokeman had compared Brown's
approach to `Constable looking at a piece of summer landscape' (i.e., sf
book-jacket illustrations are environment, not Art).
### CONFEST ###
To 3 June [] DAN DARE DISPLAY, Croydon Clocktower, with spaceship models
and replica of Frank Hampson's studio. Info 0208 253 1030.
6 May [] FANTASY FAIR 11, Cresset Exhibition Centre, Bretton,
Peterborough. Contact 5 Arran Close, Holmes Chapel, Crewe, CW4 7QP.
19 May [] _2001: A SPACE ODYSSEY_ EVENT, Science Museum. Organized by Pat
Cadigan. A day of wall-to-wall Pat (plus trace elements of ACC) ending
with the invitation-only Clarke Award presentation.
23 May [] BSFA OPEN MEETING, The Rising Sun pub, Cloth Fair, London EC2.
7pm on, fans present from 5pm. With Alastair Reynolds.
25-7 May [] ECLECTIC 21 (multimedia), Holiday Inn, Leicester. #50 reg,
#35 under-18s; day rates #30 and #25. Cheques to Bats 2000 Ltd. Contact
47 Bennetts Ct, Bristol, BS37 4XH.
25-27 May [] SECCOND (Seccon 2): De Vere Hotel, Swindon. #25 reg to
extended date _15 May_; #30 at door or #12/day (#6 after 6pm). Cheques
to `Seccon', 19 Hill Court, Cheltenham, Glos, GL52 3JJ.
14-16 Sep [] CAVALCADE (costuming), Whitby Spa Pavilion, Whitby, N.Yorks.
#27.50 reg; #30 from 31 May; #35 at door. Contact Chandlers House, Green
Lane, Whitby, N.Yorks, YO22 4EU. 01947 821711.
23 Sep [] BRITISH FANTASY SOCIETY 30TH BIRTHDAY BASH (instead of
Fantasycon), Champagne Charlies, 17 The Arches, Villiers St, London, WC2N
4NN. 9am-late. GoH Hugh Lamb, Simon Clark. #15 reg, #10 for BFS members
booking in advance: cheques to Fantasycon. Contact Beech House, Chapel
Lane, Moulton, Cheshire, CW9 8PQ.
5-7 Oct [] ANIMECON UK, Adelphi Hotel, Liverpool. GoH Gilles Poitras,
Helen McCarthy. #30 reg to 30 Jun, #35 to 30 Sep, #40 at door. Contact
PO Box 30564, London, SW16 1WZ.
9-11 Nov, ARMADACON, Copthorne Hotel, Plymouth. GoH Tom Holt; more TBA.
#27 reg to 1 Sep; #18 Sat only, #12 Sun. Contact 4 Gleneagle Ave,
Mannamead, Plymouth, PL3 5HL. 01752 252827.
9-11 Nov, NOVACON, Quality Hotel, Bentley, Walsall. GoH Gwyneth Jones.
_Now #35 reg_ to 27 Oct, #40 at door. Contact 379 Myrtle Road, Sheffield,
S2 3HQ.
8-10 Mar 02 [] MECON V, Senior Common Room, Queen's University of
Belfast. Guests TBA. Contact 30 Bendigo St, Belfast BT6 8GD.
29 Mar - 1 Apr 02 [] HELICON 2 (Eastercon), Hotel de France, Jersey. Now
#35 reg, #18 supp/junior. Contact 33 Meyrick Drive, Wash Common, Newbury,
Berks, RG14 6SY.
18-21 Apr 03 [] SEACON '03 (Eastercon), somewhere: Harrogate, Scarborough
and Birmingham are reportedly under investigation. #25 reg (#15 supp) to
1 Nov. Official postal address still awaited.
_Rumblings._ UK IN 2005. The bid newsletter at Paragon reported 960 paid-
up supporters, 690 of them North American and 96 UK....
### INFINITELY IMPROBABLE ###
AS OTHERS SEE US. `Science fiction is a part of the Communist plan to
dominate Western culture. Queen Elizabeth herself has been known to pen
"sci-fi" under a pseudonym.' -- Lyndon LaRouche (_ES_ 6 Apr). [MB]
R.I.P. _Harry Secombe_ (1921-2001), the inimitable Neddy Seagoon of BBC
Radio's much-loved _The Goon Show_, died on 11 April. [HO] He was 79. []
_Beatrice Straight_ (1916-2001), US character actress who played the
paranormal investigator in _Poltergeist_ (1982), has died aged 86. [DK]
[] _Pierre Versins_ (1923-2000), French sf author and scholar, died on
19 April aged 78. Pierre-Paul Durastanti writes: `Writer, faneditor,
critic, and author of the _Encyclopedie des Voyages Extraordinaires, de
l'Utopie et de la Science Fiction_ (special Worldcon award, 1973), he
died peacefully in his sleep in Avignon, France -- his home town, to
which he'd returned after living long years in Switzerland, where he
founded the SF museum La Maison d'Ailleurs.' [] `_Judy Watson_, wife of
Ian Watson, died at home on Easter Saturday morning of heart failure due
to a sudden overwhelming infectious exacerbation of emphysema from which
she suffered progressively for the past few years. She bequeathed her
body to the Department of Human Anatomy of the University of Oxford.'
(Ian Watson, to whom all sympathy.)
MORE AWARDS. _Nebulas:_ NOVEL _Darwin's Radio_, Greg Bear. NOVELLA
`Goddesses', Linda Nagata. NOVELETTE `Daddy's World', Walter Jon
Williams. SHORT `macs', Terry Bisson. SCRIPT _Galaxy Quest_. Already
announced: GRAND MASTER Philip Jose Farmer. AUTHOR EMERITUS (i.e.
`retired', a flagrant lie) Robert Sheckley. [] _Philip K.Dick Award:_
Michael Marshall Smith's _Only Forward_ (1994) won as best original sf
paperback published in the USA in 2000. [] _The Cordwainer Smith
Rediscovery Award_ is to be an `annual literary award for forgotten SF
classics', chosen by a jury which can also honour worthy contemporary
writers.
OUTRAGED LETTERS. _Everyone_ pointed out that SFWA's `Author Emeritus'
was instituted in 1995, not 2000; doctors blame _Ansible_ editorial brain
death. _Lawrence Watt-Evans_ (_not_ officially speaking for SFWA)
clarified: `It isn't an award. Or at least it wasn't meant to be. The
idea was to find someone who had been prominent in the field once but is
no longer, and let him know that he isn't forgotten. It wasn't meant to
be a second-string award for people not good enough to be Grand Masters;
I think most of us would consider that tacky, to say the least. [] Robert
Sheckley is absolutely and unquestionably a completely inappropriate
choice. Many of us in SFWA know this and are severely unhappy at his
selection.' [] _Guy Haley_ of _SFX_ is used to the title being read as
_SEX_ (an error often artfully encouraged by cover design): `Now things
have taken a more sinister turn. The real world is impinging on our sci-
fi paradise. Over the last 3 months we have had half a dozen letters from
Ghanian men and women wishing to advertise themselves for sex/marriage.
These people are clearly desperate -- one woman wrote that she is using
some awful cream to make her white and listed her number one hobby as
"lovemaking".' [] _Mike Woods_ of _Frontiers_ (Waterstone's sf webzine)
reassures: `Don't believe what you may read in the _Bookseller_ or
_Times_ business pages about us disappearing.'
HUGO NOMINATIONS. NOVEL (381 ballots) _A Storm of Swords_ by George
R.R.Martin, _Calculating God_ by Robert J.Sawyer, _Harry Potter and the
Goblet of Fire_ by J.K.Rowling, _Midnight Robber_ by Nalo Hopkinson, _The
Sky Road_ by Ken MacLeod. [] NOVELLA (229, 6 nominees owing to tie) `A
Roll of the Dice' by Catherine Asaro (_Analog_ 7/00), `Oracle' by Greg
Egan (_Asimov's_ 7/00), `Radiant Green Star' by Lucius Shepard
(_Asimov's_ 8/00), `Seventy-Two Letters' by Ted Chiang (_Vanishing
Acts_), `The Retrieval Artist' by Kristine Kathryn Rusch (_Analog_ 6/00),
`The Ultimate Earth' by Jack Williamson (_Analog_ 12/00). [] NOVELETTE
(237) `Agape Among the Robots' by Allen Steele (_Analog_ 5/00),
`Generation Gap' by Stanley Schmidt (_Artemis_ Spring 00), `Millennium
Babies' by Kristine Kathryn Rusch (_Asimov's_ 1/00), `On the Orion Line'
by Stephen Baxter (_Asimov's_ 10/00), `Redchapel' by Mike Resnick
(Asimov's 12/00). [] SHORT (295) `Different Kinds of Darkness' by David
Langford (_F&SF_ 1/00), `Kaddish for the Last Survivor' by Michael A.
Burstein (_Analog_ 11/00), `Moon Dogs' by Michael Swanwick (_Moon Dogs_),
`The Elephants on Neptune' by Mike Resnick (_Asimov's_ 5/00), `The
Gravity Mine' by Stephen Baxter (_Asimov's_ 4/00). (Gosh wow!) [] RELATED
BOOK (213) _Concordance to Cordwainer Smith, 3rd Ed_ by Anthony R.Lewis,
_Greetings from Earth: The Art of Bob Eggleton_ by Bob Eggleton & Nigel
Suckling, _Putting It Together: Turning Sow's Ear Drafts Into Silk Purse
Stories_ by Mike Resnick, _Robert A.Heinlein: A Reader's Companion_ by
James Gifford, _Terry Pratchett: Guilty of Literature_ ed. Andrew
M.Butler, Edward James & Farah Mendlesohn. [] DRAMATIC (279) _Chicken
Run_; _Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon_; _Frank Herbert's Dune_;
_Frequency_; _X-Men_. [] PRO EDITOR (288) Ellen Datlow, Gardner Dozois,
David G.Hartwell, Stanley Schmidt, Gordon Van Gelder. [] PRO ARTIST (246)
Jim Burns, Bob Eggleton, Frank Kelly Freas, Donato Giancola, Michael
Whelan. [] SEMIPROZINE (241) _Interzone_, _Locus_, _New York Review of
SF_, _SF Chronicle_, _Speculations_. [] FANZINE (194) _Challenger_, _File
770_, _Mimosa_, _Plokta_, _Stet_. (Haha! _Ansible_ escapes the karmic
wheel at last.) [] FAN WRITER (201) Bob Devney, Mike Glyer, Dave
Langford, Evelyn C.Leeper, Steven H Silver. [] FAN ARTIST (127) Sheryl
Birkhead, Brad Foster, Teddy Harvia, Sue Mason, Taral Wayne. [] JOHN
W.CAMPBELL AWARD (201) James L.Cambias, Thomas Harlan, Douglas Smith,
Kristine Smith, Jo Walton. [] PS: The 1999 _The Sky Road_ appears thanks
to an experimental rule change allowing an extra year's eligibility to
works published outside the USA. Steven Silver asked whether anyone had
previously had a fiction and fan nomination in the same year: Terry Carr
just missed this, but I traced someone who did it in 1970. My soul mate.
Piers Anthony.
HAPPY MEDIA. Terry Pratchett's `Bromeliad' Trilogy (_Truckers_, _Diggers_
and _Wings_) has been sold to DreamWorks for a computer-generated feature
film from Andrew Adamson and Joe Stillman. [PL]
RANDOM FANDOM. _Tom Anderson_ spotted an sf moment in _Bridget Jones'
Diary_ (the movie): a phone call in which BJ insightfully describes
Kafka's work as `positively Vonnegutesque'. [] _Andy Croft & Sue Miller_
were married on 17 March in Portsmouth Registry Office. Andy: `It was a
light hearted event being the day after Red Nose Day and for some strange
reason the groom kept being seen in one ...' [] _Cuddles_ thanks Paragon
for noble support of Electrical Eggs UK disabled-access efforts. [] _John
Foyster_, working far from home in Kuala Lumpur, was alarmed on his 60th
birthday (13 April) by the arrival of the awesome 72pp `Foystschrift'
festzine prepared for this momentous occasion by Yvonne Rousseau with the
aid of some 40 contributors. [] _Chris Hill_ has escaped the curse of
BSFA awards administration, which now passes to Tanya Brown. [] _The
Artist Formerly Known As Karen Pender-Gunn_ writes: `My new first name
is KRin (note the capitalized second initial).' [] _Lee Smoire_, utterly
famous former US fan, was in the Australian `The Weakest Link' on 19
April: `Her bio read 51, Health and Nutrition Consultant from East Perth.
She got one of her two questions right in the first round; the one she
missed was "What does fax stand for?" She was then voted off by six votes
out of the nine.' [AS/ASFB]
RETRO HUGO nominations for 1950 work are too voluminous to list, but here
are the novels: _The Dying Earth_ by Jack Vance, _Farmer in the Sky_ by
Robert A.Heinlein, _First Lensman_ by E.E.Smith, _Pebble in the Sky_ by
Isaac Asimov, _The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe_ by C.S.Lewis.
FANFUNDERY. Janice Gelb's 1999 DUFF trip report is available in the UK
from Mark Plummer, 14 Northway Rd, Croydon, Surrey, CR0 6JE. 40pp A4;
#3.50 inc p&p. Cheques to Mark; all proceeds to DUFF.
SMALL PRESS. _Sirius Fiction_ critical chapbooks: _Snake's-hands_, essays
on John Crowley, 63pp, $6 USA, $8 abroad; _Cicerone Sinister_, on Gene
Wolfe's _Fifth Head of Cerberus_, and _Peace Indexicon_, on Wolfe's
_Peace_, each 32pp, $5.50/$6.50. PO Box 628, Albany, CA 94706-0248, USA.
IN TYPO VERITAS. Paper Tiger's 2001 catalogue lists Ron Miller, co-editor
of their Chesley Bonestell book, as author of `the Hugo-nominated _The
Grand Trout_'. `A whole new genre within SF,' burbles _Chris Murphy_,
`although fishing stories are traditionally classified as fantasy.'
C.O.A. _Mike Cheater_, 11 Walmer Rd, Fratton, Portsmouth, Hants, PO1 5AS.
_Kim Huett_, 29/63 Pearson St, Holder, ACT 2611, Australia. _Paul
Treadaway_, 22 York St, Cambridge, CB1 2PY. _Peggy White_ has moved to
sheltered accommodation in Belfast and is sending personal COA letters
to her correspondents.
HUNT THE MUTANT! _OED_ researcher Sue Surova seeks early uses of the
words `mutant' and `mutation' _in the sf sense_ (abnormal features/
abilities) rather than the scientific one. Earliest so far found:
`_mutation_ in "The Man Who Evolved", Edmond Hamilton, 1931; _mutant_ in
"Niedbalski's Mutant", Spencer Lane, _Astounding_, 5/38.' If you can do
better, rush the fruits of your erudition to boh...@riconnect.com.
GROUP GROPES. New sf pub meeting now launched in Nottingham: White Hart,
29 Gregory St, Lenton; 8pm on first Wed each month.
Thog's Masterclass. _Dept of Longevity._ `"Peters, we are over a million
years old!" he announced quietly. "When we were caught up in that double-
sun explosion, we must have been carried along in its giddy orbit for
over a million years! We were kept alive simply because we were in an
air-locked compartment and did not do anything but sleep for most of the
time, thus conserving our energy and our bodies to allow us to behave now
as if we were normal men."' (Terence Haile, _Galaxies Ahead_, 1963) [via
BA] [] _Dept of Geophysics._ `I was now aware of the detailed history of
Mu, from its beginnings as a continent sucked from under the sea by a
moon that hovered over it, (revolving at the same speed as the earth's
rotation, so that it appeared stationary) ... ' (Colin Wilson, _The
Philosopher's Stone_, 1969) [] _Dept of Nebula Winners._ `Kaye could
hardly stand sitting.' (Greg Bear, _Darwin's Radio_, 1999) [PV]
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_ANSIBLE_ AGENTS
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E-ADDRESSES
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CONVENTION E-MAIL
*** 2001
25-7 May: Seccond, Swindon, sec...@sjbradshaw.cix.co.uk
25-7 May: Eclectic 21 (multimedia), Leicester, eclec...@burble.com
28 Jun - 1 Jul, Celebration of British SF, Liverpool U,
Far...@mdx.ac.uk
6-8 Jul, Nexus 2001 (media), Bristol, nexu...@enterthenexus.com
21 Jul, Constantinople (fan), Southampton, m...@ecs.soton.ac.uk
18-19 Aug, Caption 2001 (small-press comics), Oxford,
capt...@alleged.demon.co.uk
24-6 Aug, Eboracon (Unicon), York, eb...@wobbegong.demon.co.uk
24-6 Aug, HarmUni (filk, held with Eboracon), ra...@cix.co.uk
30 Aug - 3 Sep, Millennium Philcon (Worldcon), Philadelphia,
phil...@netaxs.com
14-16 Sep, Cavalcade (costuming), Whitby,
MPDon...@yorkmpd.demon.co.uk
5-7 Oct, Animecon UK, Liverpool, in...@animecon.org.uk
5-7 Oct, Supernova-Retribution (_Trek_), Heathrow,
ma...@supernova-conventions.com
13-14 Oct, Octocon (Irish national con), Dun Laoghaire, UK agent
fin...@another.co.uk
9-11 Nov, Armadacon, Plymouth, arma...@bigfoot.com
9-11 Nov, Novacon 31, Walsall, x...@zoom.co.uk
7-9 Dec, Smofcon 19 (secret mastery), York, kcam...@cix.co.uk
*** 2002
8-10 Mar, MeCon V (Belfast), mec...@hotmail.com
29 Mar - 1 Apr, Helicon 2 (Eastercon), Jersey,
heli...@smof.demon.co.uk
3-6 May, Damn Fine Convention (_Twin Peaks_) Shepperton,
in...@damnfineconvention.org.uk
16-19 Aug, Discworld Con 3 (Hinckley, Leics), in...@dwcon.org
29 Aug - 2 Sep, ConJose (Worldcon, San Jose, California),
in...@conjose.org, UK St...@vraidex.demon.co.uk
4-6 Oct, Conquest (media), Southend, jos...@oriontwo.freeserve.co.uk
*** 2003
21-23 Feb, Redemption (_B5/B7_), Ashford,
steve.r...@mcr1.poptel.org.uk
28 Aug - 1 Sep, Torcon 3 (Worldcon), Toronto, in...@torcon3.on.ca
CONVENTION BID E-MAIL
*** 2004
Boston in 2004 (US Worldcon), in...@mcfi.org
Charlotte in 2004 (US Worldcon), charlo...@earthling.net
*** 2005
Britain in 2005 (Worldcon), uk2...@hotmail.com
ENDNOTES.
_Naked Self-Promotion!_ My Hugo-shortlisted story `Different Kinds of
Darkness' appears on the _F&SF_ web site at --
http://www.sfsite.com/fsf/fiction/dl01.htm
This page has somehow lost all my italicization (`The internet ate
those italics.' -- Gordon Van Gelder), but I hope they'll fix this
soon.
_Guest Con Report: Mike Rohan_
A GOH naturally develops a rather personal view of a con, especially
if, as here, he has not only had his ego massaged but shampooed and
set. We were the ones locked in a little room to decide the
masquerade, overlooked by strange hairy faces flattened against the
glass door panel, like so much Willam Hope Hodgson; we shamelessly
wheeled and dealed over the art award; we were pursued around
labyrinthine corridors by hapless Green Roomers bearing strange
fluids, including the notorious pint of orange and cider -- a
`blasphemous ichor' if ever there was one. (It was supposed to be
orange and _soda_.)
Actually I liked it a lot -- the con, that is. The slightly weird
atmosphere of the conference centre, a sort of mutant Pitcher Plant
designed to lure in company executives and digest their expense
accounts, made it more closed than usual, with less scope to overflow
into nearby pubs, restaurants etc., creating a few feeding problems.
These were much relieved, though, by a transfusion of bottled
Theakston's, and the statue of Poseidon (why?) holding up the entrance
rotunda was caught making extra toast on its trident, courtesy of
C***s B**l and others. But by the same token the place was
comfortable, and they gave _me_ an executive suite -- two loos, a PC
in the living room and _three_ rubber ducks in the bath. Suddenly I
understood Howard Hughes a little better.
The programme was pretty good, from where I stood. I enjoyed the items
I wasn't on; my interview nerves kicked in, starting me gabbling and
Steve Davies struggling to get the questions in. Desert Island Discs
was enlivened, if that's the word, by poor Chris Southern increasingly
wrestling the sound system, Laocoon style. What of that? Steve and
Lisanne were fun, and it was good to meet new talents like Miller Lau.
The fireworks, fortuitously backed by sirens and flashing lights on
the motorway, were spectacular, and in several panels the audience was
as interesting as the speakers. The bookroom was rich in Jim White,
James H.Schmitz and other essentials. I only regret I didn't get a go
on the Terrifying Tricycle Trio. Thanks, Alice and the Committee:
`It was a good guesting.'
Ansible 166 Copyright (c) Dave Langford, 2001. Thanks to Brian
Ameringen, Australian SF Bullsheet, John Bray (Official Ansible
Chauffeur), Molly Brown, Chris Hill, Ben Jeapes (Hero Publisher), Dan
Kimmel, Hal O'Brien, Terry Pratchett, Publisher's Lunch, Gordon Van
Gelder, Paul Vincent, and our Hero Distributors: Rog Peyton (Brum
Group News), Mark Plummer (London), Janice Murray (NA), SCIS, Alan
Stewart (Thyme, Australia).
3 May 01
--
David Langford
ans...@cix.co.uk | http://www.ansible.co.uk/
Karen Cooper
>ANSIBLE 166
>MAY 2001
And let me say this about that:
>MORE AWARDS. _Nebulas:_ [...] SCRIPT _Galaxy Quest_.
Was this as much fun for the screenwriter as the Hugo was? Has this
already been discussed and I could google for it?
>RANDOM FANDOM. [...]
>_The
>Artist Formerly Known As Karen Pender-Gunn_ writes: `My new first name
>is KRin (note the capitalized second initial).'
*Excellent* I approve of making unique the spelling of our shared given
name. There's a lot of Karens about. My family of origin uses a
different route to a similar end which I'll not discuss as someone not a
member of the class might use it.
>_Naked Self-Promotion!_ My Hugo-shortlisted story [...]
What does shortlisted mean?
Karen.
Hal O'Brien
> R.I.P. _Harry Secombe_ (1921-2001), the inimitable Neddy Seagoon of BBC
> Radio's much-loved _The Goon Show_, died on 11 April. [HO] He was 79.
>
Garsh.
I feel all "Scoop" Bluebottle-ish now.
Thank you for giving me credit for a widely available item, Mr.
Langford. :) (Even if it is for a sad occasion.)
-- Hal
Hal O'Brien
> David Langford <ans...@cix.co.uk> writes:
> >_Naked Self-Promotion!_ My Hugo-shortlisted story [...]
>
> What does shortlisted mean?
"Nominated", approximately. Thus, the slate of (usually) five
nominees for a Hugo might be referred to as the "Hugo shortlist".
Presumably the set of all eligible stories would be the "longlist".
Or, um, something...
-- Hal
Avedon Carol
wrote:
> _Lee Smoire_, utterly
>famous former US fan, was in the Australian `The Weakest Link'
<gape>
--
Avedon
"At holiday parties, Republican political operatives boasted freely about
their success in snaring the White House. A common refrain, told in a
joking style, was: 'We stole the election fair and square.'" (Robert Parry)
Dan Kimmel
news:MPG.155c79f56...@news.ware.net...
It's probably not appropriate for the Hugos, but don't the Nebulas work that
way? First there's a long list of potential nominees, and then the short
list of actual nominees.
Robin Low
<ans...@cix.co.uk> writes
> _Mike Woods_ of _Frontiers_ (Waterstone's sf webzine)
>reassures: `Don't believe what you may read in the _Bookseller_ or
>_Times_ business pages about us disappearing.'
I'm almost certainly clutching at straws here, but does anyone know this
Mike Woods well enough to get in touch with him and ask if he was at
Bangor University in the early 90s? I'm sure there are loads of Mike
Woods out there who love books and sf, but I'm hoping this might be one
I knew.
I've looked at the Frontiers site and didn't spot any obvious email
address for him, so I can't ask myself.
Thanks
Robin
--
Robin Low
Mary Kay Kare
<arg...@earthlink.net> wrote:
Sorta kinda, but not. Most juried prizes start out with a long list which
all memebers of the jury read and develop a short list of. The short
lists of the jurors are then combined and weeded to give the short list,
from which the winner is chosen. It's not really appropriate terminology
for the Hugos, but by analogy all the titles/people/whatever who received
any nominating vote at all would be the long list. (Doesn't Locus or
somebody publish this? Or am I thinking of the Nebulas?) The short list
would then be those items that made it to the ballot.
MKK--on the committe for the MFA
--
"Books you've bought and shelved but not yet read emit a gentle, beneficial
radiation, and when you finally do read them they're almost old friends."
--Teresa Nielsen Hayden on RASFF
Loren Joseph MacGregor
There are at least three Mike Woods that I know of loosely involved
in science fiction and/or science fiction fandom. I'm not sure which
one this is.
Why can't everyone have a unique name as, for example, Loren MacGregor?
-- LJM
Avedon Carol
<lmac...@garcia.efn.org> wrote:
>Why can't everyone have a unique name as, for example, Loren MacGregor?
Beats me.
Dave Weingart
>>Why can't everyone have a unique name as, for example, Loren MacGregor?
>
>Beats me.
*grin*
Back when I was working for Cornell University (and thus had a
cornell.edu eddress), I discovered that there was not only another
Dave Weingart on Usenet, but that he *also* had a cornell.edu
eddress.
--
73 de Dave Weingart KA2ESK "They reached for tomorrow, but tomorrow's
mailto:phyd...@liii.com more of the same. They reached for
http://www.liii.com/~phydeaux tomorrow, but tomorrow never came."
ICQ 57055207 -- Berlin, "Masquerade"
Erik V. Olson
>One day in Teletubbyland, ave...@cix.co.uk said:
>>>Why can't everyone have a unique name as, for example, Loren MacGregor?
>>
>>Beats me.
>
>*grin*
>
>Back when I was working for Cornell University (and thus had a
>cornell.edu eddress), I discovered that there was not only another
>Dave Weingart on Usenet, but that he *also* had a cornell.edu
>eddress.
Heh.
I've been complimented on my artwork in the Player's Handbook, and by my
perl hacking skills. Unfortunatly, I've had to explain that those are
different Erik Olson's, which is one of the reasons I stick the "V." in.
The perl hacker who was buying me a beer based on my "skills" in perl was
very nice once I explained that it was another Erik Olson, and *still*
bought the round. I bought the next, and it turned into a drunk-out.
Sometimes, really, life is good.
--
Erik V. Olson: er...@mo.net : http://walden.mo.net/~eriko/
Loren Joseph MacGregor
>I've been complimented on my artwork in the Player's Handbook, and by my
>perl hacking skills. Unfortunatly, I've had to explain that those are
>different Erik Olson's, which is one of the reasons I stick the "V." in.
>The perl hacker who was buying me a beer based on my "skills" in perl was
>very nice once I explained that it was another Erik Olson, and *still*
>bought the round. I bought the next, and it turned into a drunk-out.
>Sometimes, really, life is good.
Say, Erik, I need some help parsing a script to retrieve a file based
on a constructed date, and ....
-- LJM
Erik V. Olson
Well, I could mutter about other things, or we can skip the formalities and
get to the "drinking" part of the program
Loren Joseph MacGregor
>On 5 May 2001 15:46:35 GMT,
> Loren Joseph MacGregor <lmac...@garcia.efn.org> wrote:
>>In rec.arts.sf.fandom, Erik V. Olson <er...@physiciansedge.com> wrote:
>>
>>>I've been complimented on my artwork in the Player's Handbook, and by my
>>>perl hacking skills. Unfortunatly, I've had to explain that those are
>>>different Erik Olson's, which is one of the reasons I stick the "V." in.
>>
>>>The perl hacker who was buying me a beer based on my "skills" in perl was
>>>very nice once I explained that it was another Erik Olson, and *still*
>>>bought the round. I bought the next, and it turned into a drunk-out.
>>>Sometimes, really, life is good.
>>
>>Say, Erik, I need some help parsing a script to retrieve a file based
>>on a constructed date, and ....
>Well, I could mutter about other things, or we can skip the formalities and
>get to the "drinking" part of the program
Good idea! What's yours? And Dave, since we're hijacking your thread to
talk of ships and sails and sealing wax, name your poison.
-- LJM
Mary Kay Kare
wrote:
> Sometimes, really, life is good.
>
I've been thinking that all afternoon. There must be something better
than driving around in a red convertible under clear blue California skies
while listening to rock and roll turned up as loud as is supposed to be,
but I just can't think what.
MKK--Euphoric? Me?
Loren Joseph MacGregor
>In article <slrn9f7404...@calcium.physiciansedge.com>, er...@mo.net
>wrote:
>> Sometimes, really, life is good.
>>
>I've been thinking that all afternoon. There must be something better
>than driving around in a red convertible under clear blue California skies
>while listening to rock and roll turned up as loud as is supposed to be,
>but I just can't think what.
I admit this is a wonderful feeling, but it gets less wonderful when
driver after driver drives past your house with the music cranked way
up to songs you intensely dislike -- even if you once liked them before
the novelty of the drive-bys wore off.
-- LJM (a little grumpy from having streams of people drive by with
house-shaking bass playing after 2:30 in the morning, when he has
to get up for work at 4:45)
Avedon Carol
>One day in Teletubbyland, ave...@cix.co.uk said:
>>>Why can't everyone have a unique name as, for example, Loren MacGregor?
>>
>>Beats me.
>
>*grin*
>
>Back when I was working for Cornell University (and thus had a
>cornell.edu eddress), I discovered that there was not only another
>Dave Weingart on Usenet, but that he *also* had a cornell.edu
>eddress.
I'm not sure it's still true, but for a few years there, whenever
(Bloody) Martin Smith mentioned some guy he worked with, we could
safely assume it was someone named Martin. Including his boss, Martin
Smith.
Mitch Wagner
news:9cur8g$buo$3...@news.efn.org:
> Why can't everyone have a unique name as, for example, Loren MacGregor?
<puzzled>
If everyone was named Loren MacGregor, then it wouldn't be a unique name
anymore, would it?
--
Loren MacGregor
Erik V. Olson
Yes, it would. The only name would be "Loren MacGregor", which would make it
a unique (and ubiquitous) name. It would also cause a bit of confusion,
insert Monty Python gag here.
Mark Atwood
>
> Yes, it would. The only name would be "Loren MacGregor", which would make it
> a unique (and ubiquitous) name. It would also cause a bit of confusion,
> insert Monty Python gag here.
But my name's not Bruce...
--
Mark Atwood | I'm wearing black only until I find something darker.
m...@pobox.com | http://www.pobox.com/~mra
Loren Joseph MacGregor
>On 6 May 2001 18:00:08 GMT, Mitch Wagner <mwa...@world.std.com> wrote:
>>Loren Joseph MacGregor <lmac...@garcia.efn.org> wrote in
>>news:9cur8g$buo$3...@news.efn.org:
>>
>>> Why can't everyone have a unique name as, for example, Loren MacGregor?
>>
>><puzzled>
>>
>>If everyone was named Loren MacGregor, then it wouldn't be a unique name
>>anymore, would it?
>Yes, it would. The only name would be "Loren MacGregor", which would make it
>a unique (and ubiquitous) name. It would also cause a bit of confusion,
>insert Monty Python gag here.
That joke is redundant.
-- Mitch Wagner
Nels E Satterlund
But I like Nels Eric Satterlund ....
Nels
except it gets long when dong the bille, Nels Eric Satterlund, Nels E
Satterlund, N E Satterlund ...
--
Nels E Satterlund I don't speak for the company
Ne...@Earthling.net <-- Use this address please,
My Lurkers motto: I read much better than I type.
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----
Nimrod
Erik V. Olson <er...@physiciansedge.com> wrote in message
news:slrn9fb31p...@calcium.physiciansedge.com...
> On 6 May 2001 18:00:08 GMT, Mitch Wagner <mwa...@world.std.com> wrote:
> >Loren Joseph MacGregor <lmac...@garcia.efn.org> wrote in
> >news:9cur8g$buo$3...@news.efn.org:
> >
> >> Why can't everyone have a unique name as, for example, Loren MacGregor?
> >
> ><puzzled>
> >
> >If everyone was named Loren MacGregor, then it wouldn't be a unique name
> >anymore, would it?
>
> Yes, it would. The only name would be "Loren MacGregor", which would make
it
> a unique (and ubiquitous) name. It would also cause a bit of confusion,
> insert Monty Python gag here.
I'm Loren MacGregor and so is my wife!
Loren Joseph MacGregor
Well, yes, that's actually quite true.
And, oddly enough, my testing server at work is "Nimrod."
Oh-oh. Wait a minute....
-- LJM
Kate Schaefer
news:9d56vm$b2q$2...@news.efn.org...
How many years have you been waiting for the perfect setup to get *someone
else* to say that?
(I know the answer is the same as the number of years since you married
Lauryn...)
Michael J. Lowrey
> >> Why can't everyone have a unique name as, for example, Loren MacGregor?
> >
> ><puzzled>
> >
> >If everyone was named Loren MacGregor, then it wouldn't be a unique name
> >anymore, would it?
>
> Yes, it would. The only name would be "Loren MacGregor", which would make it
> a unique (and ubiquitous) name. It would also cause a bit of confusion,
> insert Monty Python gag here.
I cannot but remember a D&D session of some years back when
we looked around, and one of the six Michaels in the room
turned to the seventh person and said, "Bruce: is it all
right if we call you Michael, then, just to keep things
straight?"
--
Orange Mike
may have been the guilty party
Loren Joseph MacGregor
Five years this October 26. You are, of course, cordially invited to
the fifth anniversary celebration.
-- LJM
Chris Croughton
<m...@pobox.com> wrote:
>er...@physiciansedge.com (Erik V. Olson) writes:
>>
>> Yes, it would. The only name would be "Loren MacGregor", which would
>> make it a unique (and ubiquitous) name. It would also cause a bit of
>> confusion, insert Monty Python gag here.
>
>But my name's not Bruce...
We've already got the appropriate name in British fandom, just call
everyone 'Chris'...
Chris C
Omega
<ch...@keristor.org> writes
"Which Chris"
"Pick one"
Overheard during Chris Bell's candidacy.
--
Omega
WereGopher From The Black Lagoon
(coming soon... honest... only eight years late)
John Dallman
Lowrey) wrote:
> I cannot but remember a D&D session of some years back when
> we looked around, and one of the six Michaels in the room
> turned to the seventh person and said, "Bruce: is it all
> right if we call you Michael, then, just to keep things
> straight?"
My second programming job was in an office containing three people called
John, a Jonathan and a Sanjay. One usually walked up to someone and
prodded them to indicate that they were the John in question.
---
John Dallman j...@cix.co.uk
Beth Friedman
<memo.200105...@jgd.compulink.co.uk>, wrote:
I gather Sanjay was a nickname for St. John? Is that standard? I
recall seeing Sinjin in a couple of books.
--
Beth Friedman
b...@wavefront.com
Loren Joseph MacGregor
My last three neep-related jobs have all had a Sanjay. I'm beginning
to think no office is complete without a Sanjay.
-- LJM
Loren Joseph MacGregor
Every Sanjay I knew was from India.
-- LJM
Mitch Wagner
news:slrn9fdcbg...@ccserver.keris.net:
My brother worked at a company with a fair-sized team of British subjects;
he came to the conclusion that 75% of them were named Nigel.
--
Mitch Wagner
Andrew Stephenson
mwa...@world.std.com "Mitch Wagner" writes:
Actually it's 76%. But that's just a niggle.
--
Andrew Stephenson
Vicki Rosenzweig
20:04:22 GMT:
Well, my office certainly doesn't feel complete, and we don't have a
Sanjay. On the other hand, a discussion on a mailing list led to the
conclusion that said office is in Japan, which I don't quite believe,
despite the huge ad for instant ramen, the "Sylvan working" signs,
and the really weird beverages on sale across the street, which is
what led to the suggestion that I must be in Japan.
--
Vicki Rosenzweig | v...@redbird.org
r.a.sf.f faq at http://www.redbird.org/rassef-faq.html
Nimrod
Loren Joseph MacGregor <lmac...@garcia.efn.org> wrote in message
news:9d56vm$b2q$2...@news.efn.org...
cue the theme to "the Twilight Zone....."
David Goldfarb
It's said that in the early days of Ely Culbertson's _Bridge World_
magazine, he called out, "Hey, Al!" and had Alvin Roth, Albert Morehead,
Alphonse Moyse Jr., and Alfred Sheinwold all come running. So Culbertson
parceled out names: Roth (who was the one he'd wanted) got "Al";
Morehead got "Albert"; Sheinwold got "Freddy"; and Moyse got "Sonny".
And for each of them, that was his name till the day he died.
--
David Goldfarb <*>|"You will know pain."
gold...@ocf.berkeley.edu | "And you will know fear."
aste...@slip.net |"And then you will die. Have a pleasant flight."
gold...@csua.berkeley.edu | -- Babylon 5, "The Parliament of Dreams"
Lis Carey
<memo.200105...@jgd.compulink.co.uk>:
<snip>
>My second programming job was in an office containing three people
>called John, a Jonathan and a Sanjay. One usually walked up to
>someone and prodded them to indicate that they were the John in
>question.
The I.S. department of the biotech company I used to work for
consisted, for most of the time I was there, of several people who all
had the given name of William, and who, in other areas of their lives,
were normally addressed as Bill.
We referred to them collectively as "the Bills", and referred to and
addressed them individually by their surnames. Their surnames, while
not particularly unusual, did at least have the distinction of being
unique not only in their department but in the company.
--
Lis Carey
Re-elect Gore in '04
Dave Weingart
>The I.S. department of the biotech company I used to work for
>consisted, for most of the time I was there, of several people who all
>had the given name of William, and who, in other areas of their lives,
>were normally addressed as Bill.
<seuss>
Did you ever hear of Mrs. McCave
Who had twenty three sons, and she named them all Dave?
</seuss>
--
73 de Dave Weingart KA2ESK "They reached for tomorrow, but tomorrow's
mailto:phyd...@liii.com more of the same. They reached for
http://www.liii.com/~phydeaux tomorrow, but tomorrow never came."
ICQ 57055207 -- Berlin, "Masquerade"
Andrew Stephenson
> One day in Teletubbyland, lisc...@mediaone.net (Lis Carey) said:
> >The I.S. department of the biotech company I used to work for
> >consisted, for most of the time I was there, of several people who all
> >had the given name of William, and who, in other areas of their lives,
> >were normally addressed as Bill.
>
> <seuss>
> Did you ever hear of Mrs. McCave
> Who had twenty three sons, and she named them all Dave?
> </seuss>
Or the Real World case, during WW2, when the UK War Office was
training recruits in bulk. One school received a new intake of
300, of whom 299 had the surname "Brown". Monty Python aside, I
sometimes wonder about the life of the 1 with a different name.
--
Andrew Stephenson
aRJay
<mwa...@world.std.com> writes
Phil 3
Roger 2
Paul 2
Neil 2
Mark 1
Ivan 1
Richard 1
all fortunately with different surnames and then there were the awkward
2. Names John Hutton other initials none both old, both bearded
answering the phone got to be like playing 20 questions.
--
How does a rocket/jet engine work?
"It's not that hard.
Stuff goes in, stuff happens, stuff goes out faster than it came in."
- Ian Stirling
aRJay
Marilee J. Layman
wrote:
I suppose this comes from working for defense contractors, but we
almost always called each other by our last names.
--
Marilee J. Layman
Bali Sterling Beads at Wholesale
http://www.basicbali.com
Alison Scott
>I've been thinking that all afternoon. There must be something better
>than driving around in a red convertible under clear blue California skies
>while listening to rock and roll turned up as loud as is supposed to be,
>but I just can't think what.
The chap on the radio said "Well, I got up this morning and I looked
out the window and I thought I'd died and gone to Florida."
So Steven promptly took the day off work on the grounds that it was
far too sunny to work, and at about 4pm, there was a point where I was
lying in the hammock, along with Marianne (who was giggly) and
Jonathan and Meriol (who were sweet), and Caroline was sitting on the
grass reading _Plokta_ and laughing periodically, and Steven was busy
fetching us all more wine (well, ok, not more wine for the kids, but
you get the idea).
--
Alison Scott ali...@kittywompus.com & www.kittywompus.com
Marilee J. Layman
The last vacation I took before I got sick was a cruise to Alaska. We
headed into Sitka on one of their (average) 6 days of sun a year, so
everybody had taken off and was doing fun stuff.
Eimear Ni Mhealoid
Erik V. Olson <er...@physiciansedge.com> wrote in message
news:slrn9fb31p...@calcium.physiciansedge.com...
> On 6 May 2001 18:00:08 GMT, Mitch Wagner <mwa...@world.std.com> wrote:
> >Loren Joseph MacGregor <lmac...@garcia.efn.org> wrote in
> >news:9cur8g$buo$3...@news.efn.org:
> >
> >> Why can't everyone have a unique name as, for example, Loren MacGregor?
> >
> ><puzzled>
> >
> >If everyone was named Loren MacGregor, then it wouldn't be a unique name
> >anymore, would it?
>
> it a unique (and ubiquitous) name. It would also cause a bit of
> confusion, insert Monty Python gag here.
Nah, that's a Flann O'Brien gag - from _An Béal Bocht_/_The Poor Mouth_,
where everybody in the little village is called Jams O'Donnell.
--
Eimear Ni Mhealoid
Johan Anglemark
<KBaK6.15163$_W2.1...@news.indigo.ie>:
>Erik V. Olson <er...@physiciansedge.com> wrote
>> Mitch Wagner <mwa...@world.std.com> wrote:
>> >Loren Joseph MacGregor <lmac...@garcia.efn.org> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Why can't everyone have a unique name as, for example, Loren
>> >> MacGregor?
>> >
>> ><puzzled>
>> >
>> >If everyone was named Loren MacGregor, then it wouldn't be a unique
>> >name anymore, would it?
>>
>> Yes, it would. The only name would be "Loren MacGregor", which would
>> make it a unique (and ubiquitous) name. It would also cause a bit of
>> confusion, insert Monty Python gag here.
>
>Nah, that's a Flann O'Brien gag - from _An Béal Bocht_/_The Poor Mouth_,
>where everybody in the little village is called Jams O'Donnell.
"Phwhats yer nam?"
-j
--
Johan Anglemark
Lejd av Upsala SF-sällskap
http://sfweb.dang.se
Loren Joseph MacGregor
I think I'll just ride off on the policeman's other bicycle.
-- LJM
Loren Joseph MacGregor
>"Phwhats yer nam?"
"John Jacob Jingleheimer Schmidt," which probably says far too much
about century-old American pop culture.
-- LJM
John Dallman
Joseph MacGregor) wrote:
> In rec.arts.sf.fandom, Beth Friedman <b...@wavefront.com> wrote:
>>j...@cix.co.uk (John Dallman), wrote:
>>>My second programming job was in an office containing three
>>>people called John, a Jonathan and a Sanjay. One usually walked
>>>up to someone and prodded them to indicate that they were the
>>>John in question.
> >I gather Sanjay was a nickname for St. John? Is that standard? I
> >recall seeing Sinjin in a couple of books.
>
> Every Sanjay I knew was from India.
... including this one. The British abbreviation for St John is spelled
"sinjin", or "sinjan", or maybe a couple of other ways. Sanjay didn't
/think/ he was called John, but he sometimes answered to it to make life
more interesting.
---
John Dallman j...@cix.co.uk
John Dallman
> I suppose this comes from working for defense contractors, but we
> almost always called each other by our last names.
In the current job, I get called by my e-mail address. Fortunately, this
is because we use first names as e-mail addresses when we can, but for
complex reasons I ended up as "jgd".
---
John Dallman j...@cix.co.uk
Loren MacGregor
I do wonder how "jgd" is pronounced, though.
-- LJM