Alexlit hates me
Ailsa Ek
night, and I mentioned that I'd stopped going there because so many of
the books on my list were ones I knew nothing about at all, and had a
vague feeling weren't science fiction, and it occurred to me that there
are all these well-read people with opinions here, and maybe someone
could tell me something about some of these strange titles and authors.
Actually doing the search, more of it was SF/F than I had remembered,
but much is still stuff I know nothing about (or things I don't plan on
reading, like _Deepness in the Sky_). I snipped everything I'd heard
of, and left only the "Huh, wha' da'?" listings from the first two pages.
Totally Out Of Left Field Stuff:
The Cricket Term (Long) by Antonia Forest; Near-Fabulous, Very Low
The Changeover (Long) by Margaret Mahy; Excellent, Medium
Mockingbird (Long) by Sean Stewart; Excellent, Very Low
We Didn't Mean to Go to Sea (Long) by Arthur Ransome; Excellent, Very
Low
White Boots (Long) by Noel Streatfeild; Excellent, Very Low
The Four-Story Mistake (Long) by Elizabeth Enright; Excellent, Very Low
Young Adult Novel (Long) by Daniel Manus Pinkwater; Excellent, Very Low
The Lady's Not For Burning (Script) by Christopher Fry; Near-Excellent,
Low
Maybe SF/F:
Erase/Record/Play (16,000 words) by John M. Ford; Excellent, Very Low
Espedair Street (102,000 words) by Iain Banks; Excellent, Low
The Perilous Gard (Long) by Elizabeth Marie Pope; Near-Excellent, Medium
Story of Your Life (20,000 words) by Ted Chiang; Near-Excellent, Low
Wasp (Long) by Eric Frank Russell; Near-Excellent, Medium
The Daughter of Time (64,000 words) by Josephine Tey; Near-Excellent,
High
SF/F I Know Nothing About:
The Long Run (Long) by Daniel Keys Moran; Excellent, Medium
Sorry to bother people with book questions, but, well, you guys I know,
rasfw people I don't necessarily, and I haven't the stamina to wade
through it all to ask anything there.
--
What can you do with your days but work and hope, Ailsa C. Ek
Let your dreams bind your work to your play? ail...@mac.com
What can you do with every moment of your life Sharon, MA
But love 'til you love it away? - Bob Franke http://pages.ivillage.com/ailsaek
Alan Braggins
> We Didn't Mean to Go to Sea (Long) by Arthur Ransome;
Possibly the Arthur Ransome books should go in the suggestions for Sasha
thread, though I think they are readable later (and definitely not SF).
He's best known for Swallows and Amazons.
There are some contemporary reviews (from 1937/1938)
http://www.arthur-ransome.org/ar/literary/rev_wdm.htm
> Maybe SF/F:
> Espedair Street (102,000 words) by Iain Banks; Excellent, Low
Not SF from the cover blurb, but I haven't read it.
(Some of the Iain Banks books are arguably SF though, though not in the
same style as Iain M Banks.)
Loren Joseph MacGregor
>Adam & I got talking about Alexlit recommendations on the train last
>night, and I mentioned that I'd stopped going there because so many of
>the books on my list were ones I knew nothing about at all, and had a
>vague feeling weren't science fiction, and it occurred to me that there
>are all these well-read people with opinions here, and maybe someone
>could tell me something about some of these strange titles and authors.
>Actually doing the search, more of it was SF/F than I had remembered,
>but much is still stuff I know nothing about (or things I don't plan on
>reading, like _Deepness in the Sky_). I snipped everything I'd heard
>of, and left only the "Huh, wha' da'?" listings from the first two pages.
<snip>
>We Didn't Mean to Go to Sea (Long) by Arthur Ransome; Excellent,
>Very Low
Not science fiction, but a great many science fiction fans
(including Doug Faunt, who is a member of the Arthur Ransome
Society) really like Ransome's writing. If you're in the mood
for trying something -outside- of SF, but with the -feeling- of
fantasy, I suspect someone here would recommend a starting point.
(I've not well read enough in Ransome to know where to start.)
<snip>
>Young Adult Novel (Long) by Daniel Manus Pinkwater; Excellent,
>Very Low
Daniel Pinkwater -is- a fantasy writer, and a children's book
novelist, and more that I could not describe without writing a
very long article -- and it may be time to do so. He's been
and may still be (I don't have a radio, so I don't know) a
columnist for NPR. I would recommend Young Adult Novel,
which is a young adult novel and, in no particular order,
"The Snarkout Boys and the Avocado of Death," (to "snark out"
is to sneak out of the house to see the horrible double and
triple bills at the Snark Theater), "Alan Mendelsohn, the Boy
from Mars" (Did you ever go to school with a kid who appears
to be from some other planet? In this case, he -is-),
"Lizard Music" (in which suddenly, and without explanation,
everyone on late night TV turns into a lizard; the novel
also has a capsule review of that wonderful science fiction
film, "Fat Men from Space," where fat men in loud checked
jackets ... but I digress), "Fat Men from Space," where we
learn about the horrible invasion -- and, really, far too
many others to summarize here. Highly recommended.
<snip>
>The Lady's Not For Burning (Script) by Christopher Fry; Near-Excellent,
>Low
A play from someone who had a deservedly high reputation in the
30s, 40s and 50s. Not science fiction, but highly recommended.
Oddly, I was recently discussing this play with a friend in
New Mexico, who was trying to track down a quote which I
recalled (correctly) as being from the play.
>Maybe SF/F:
>Erase/Record/Play (16,000 words) by John M. Ford; Excellent, Very Low
>Espedair Street (102,000 words) by Iain Banks; Excellent, Low
>The Perilous Gard (Long) by Elizabeth Marie Pope; Near-Excellent, Medium
>Story of Your Life (20,000 words) by Ted Chiang; Near-Excellent, Low
>Wasp (Long) by Eric Frank Russell; Near-Excellent, Medium
>The Daughter of Time (64,000 words) by Josephine Tey; Near-Excellent,
>High
All of those I would recommend as well, except for The Perilous
Gard, which I haven't read; I went out and found some Ted Chiang
at the recommendation of others here.
-- LJM
--
+------------------------------------------+
| Loren J MacGregor + The Churn Works |
| Systems Administrator + Technical Writer |
| churn...@att.net + lmac...@efn.org |
+------------------------------------------+
Kris Hasson-Jones
the following for all the world to see:
>Adam & I got talking about Alexlit recommendations on the train last
>night, and I mentioned that I'd stopped going there because so many of
>the books on my list were ones I knew nothing about at all, and had a
>vague feeling weren't science fiction, and it occurred to me that there
>are all these well-read people with opinions here, and maybe someone
>could tell me something about some of these strange titles and authors.
>
>Actually doing the search, more of it was SF/F than I had remembered,
>but much is still stuff I know nothing about (or things I don't plan on
>reading, like _Deepness in the Sky_). I snipped everything I'd heard
>of, and left only the "Huh, wha' da'?" listings from the first two pages.
Okay, here's what little I know:
>Totally Out Of Left Field Stuff:
>White Boots (Long) by Noel Streatfeild; Excellent, Very Low
Since Noel Streatfeild wrote the stories about children who go into
the performing arts (Ballet Shoes; Theater Shoes), this has a good
chance of being similar. This is a juvenile.
>The Four-Story Mistake (Long) by Elizabeth Enright; Excellent, Very Low
I really liked this. The four-story mistake is the house that a
family moves into. IIRC the POV is an adolescent daughter. This is a
juvenile.
>The Lady's Not For Burning (Script) by Christopher Fry; Near-Excellent,
>Low
I enjoyed a production of this that I saw when I was a teen. Don't
remember much, just fascinating, exciting word usage.
--
Kris Hasson-Jones sni...@pacifier.com
I see the outline for a screenplay here. It involves a depressed person
under internet mind control opening a bed & breakfast in his mother's absence.
Hijinks ensue. ... Annette Stroud, 1 Oct 2002.
Jo Walton
> Adam & I got talking about Alexlit recommendations on the train last
> night, and I mentioned that I'd stopped going there because so many of
> the books on my list were ones I knew nothing about at all, and had a
> vague feeling weren't science fiction, and it occurred to me that there
> are all these well-read people with opinions here, and maybe someone
> could tell me something about some of these strange titles and authors.
Well they *really* hate me. I've given up using them because despite my
ranking the one I read at the lowest possible rank, they keep on
insisting that I'd just love more Neil Gaiman's Sandman, and other comic
books.
> Actually doing the search, more of it was SF/F than I had remembered,
> but much is still stuff I know nothing about (or things I don't plan on
> reading, like _Deepness in the Sky_). I snipped everything I'd heard
> of, and left only the "Huh, wha' da'?" listings from the first two pages.
>
> Totally Out Of Left Field Stuff:
Deleting ones I've never heard of either...
> The Changeover (Long) by Margaret Mahy; Excellent, Medium
This is a children's book by a New Zealand author. I haven't read it,
but Sasha has read others of hers and really liked them. It's probably
SF.
> Mockingbird (Long) by Sean Stewart; Excellent, Very Low
This is fantasy, and it's excellent. It's set in contemporary Texas. I
really think you'd like it. "If every story is a journey, then this is
the story of the longest trip I ever took, from being a daughter to
having one."
> We Didn't Mean to Go to Sea (Long) by Arthur Ransome; Excellent, Very
> Low
Another children's book, not SF or fantasy at all. Ransome was a
British writer, his books are all about kids messing about with boats,
mostly in the Lake District, but this one is about crossing the
Channel kind of by mistake. It's kind of fun, but the middle of a
long series. The first in the series is _Swallows and Amazons_. I can't
see any particular reason why you would or wouldn't like them. I read
S&A aloud to Sasha a few years ago and it held up pretty well.
> White Boots (Long) by Noel Streatfeild; Excellent, Very Low
This is yet another children's book. Streatfeild is another British
writer. _White Boots_ is about a girl succeeding at ice-skating. I think
it's one of her weakest, unless, presumably, you're mad about
ice-skating. I'd recommend _Ballet Shoes_, _Thursday's Child_,
_Caldicott Place_ or the _Gemma_ series. But I suspect you have to be
eight years old to really enjoy this sort of book, at least the first
time.
> The Lady's Not For Burning (Script) by Christopher Fry; Near-Excellent,
> Low
It's a play. Janet in Pamela Dean's _Tam Lin_ enjoyed it. I've been
intending to read it for a while, though I'd rather see it if I get the
chance.
> Erase/Record/Play (16,000 words) by John M. Ford; Excellent, Very Low
This is an excellent short story in _Starlight One_. Let me add my
unreserved recommendation to Hypatia's.
> Espedair Street (102,000 words) by Iain Banks; Excellent, Low
This is a mainstream novel about a rock musician living in a converted
chapel in Glasgow. I enjoyed it a lot more than I thought I would. It's
very well written, and unlike most Banks there are no icky bits at all.
> Story of Your Life (20,000 words) by Ted Chiang; Near-Excellent, Low
This is another short story in _Starlight Two_, which again I'll
recommend unreservedly. I think you'd love it. It's brilliant.
> Wasp (Long) by Eric Frank Russell; Near-Excellent, Medium
This is SF. If you like clever golden age SF and haven't read it
already, then both _Wasp_ and _Next of Kin_/_The Space Willies_ are a
treat.
(Things like _Mockingbird_ and _Espedair Street_ you read for the people
and the places and the way they're written. Things like _Wasp_ you read
for the plot. I like both sorts of thing, but I find it hard to
understand what criteria the program is using to recommend both.)
> The Daughter of Time (64,000 words) by Josephine Tey; Near-Excellent,
> High
This is a unique novel, about a detective lying in bed in London in 1950
thinking about Richard III. It's a comfort read for me, like most Tey,
and one of my favourite books, even if the conclusions Grant comes to
aren't supportable. This is well worth reading if you like reading at
all. I've given this to lots of different people and I don't know anyone
who hasn't enjoyed it.
> The Long Run (Long) by Daniel Keys Moran; Excellent, Medium
Fast moving, fast paced American SF, set in a very pulpy world that is
irresistably charming. Moran himself appears to have alienated the
publishing world, meaning his published novels are only available second
hand and his new novels are being self-published. _The Long Run_
contains a great wise-cracking thief hero, his telepathic dancing
girlfriend, and a world dominated by French villains. If you read fast
and don't think too hard, it's a great deal of fun. It would be a very
good book to read when mildly ill, or when travelling.
> Sorry to bother people with book questions, but, well, you guys I know,
> rasfw people I don't necessarily, and I haven't the stamina to wade
> through it all to ask anything there.
Yeah, well, that's what's killing rasfw. I can't say anything, I'm not
reading it either, even though I would rather talk about books than
anything.
--
Jo I kissed a kif at Kefk blu...@vif.com
THE KING'S PEACE paperback available now from Tor Books!
THE KING'S NAME hardback still available
THE PRIZE IN THE GAME coming in November http://www.bluejo.demon.co.uk
Nancy Lebovitz
Loren Joseph MacGregor <lmac...@garcia.efn.org> wrote:
>
>Daniel Pinkwater -is- a fantasy writer, and a children's book
>novelist, and more that I could not describe without writing a
>very long article -- and it may be time to do so. He's been
>and may still be (I don't have a radio, so I don't know) a
>columnist for NPR. I would recommend Young Adult Novel,
>which is a young adult novel and, in no particular order,
>"The Snarkout Boys and the Avocado of Death," (to "snark out"
>is to sneak out of the house to see the horrible double and
>triple bills at the Snark Theater), "Alan Mendelsohn, the Boy
>from Mars" (Did you ever go to school with a kid who appears
>to be from some other planet? In this case, he -is-),
>"Lizard Music" (in which suddenly, and without explanation,
>everyone on late night TV turns into a lizard; the novel
Just to be polite, it's not that everyone on late night tv
turns into a lizard, it's that a lizard band appears after
the signal goes off. (Note: this was before 24 hour tv, not
to mention CGI.)
I second the recommendations, and especially add _Yobgorgle_
and _The Last Guru_. _Fat Camp Commandos_ is pretty good, too.
>also has a capsule review of that wonderful science fiction
>film, "Fat Men from Space," where fat men in loud checked
>jackets ... but I digress), "Fat Men from Space," where we
>learn about the horrible invasion -- and, really, far too
>many others to summarize here. Highly recommended.
--
Nancy Lebovitz na...@netaxs.com www.nancybuttons.com 100 new slogans
I want to move to theory. Everything works in theory.
Nancy Lebovitz
Ailsa Ek <ail...@mac.com> wrote:
>Adam & I got talking about Alexlit recommendations on the train last
>night, and I mentioned that I'd stopped going there because so many of
>the books on my list were ones I knew nothing about at all, and had a
>vague feeling weren't science fiction, and it occurred to me that there
>are all these well-read people with opinions here, and maybe someone
>could tell me something about some of these strange titles and authors.
>
>Actually doing the search, more of it was SF/F than I had remembered,
>but much is still stuff I know nothing about (or things I don't plan on
>reading, like _Deepness in the Sky_). I snipped everything I'd heard
>of, and left only the "Huh, wha' da'?" listings from the first two pages.
>
>Totally Out Of Left Field Stuff:
>
what do the two after the title refer to?
>The Changeover (Long) by Margaret Mahy; Excellent, Medium
Liked it moderately. IIRC, it's sf. (Alien in high school?)
>
>Mockingbird (Long) by Sean Stewart; Excellent, Very Low
Definitely sf--a woman inherits a bunch of small annoying gods
from her mother, and needs to figure out how to deal with them.
I recommend it.
>White Boots (Long) by Noel Streatfeild; Excellent, Very Low
Haven't read it, but I've liked some of her other books. When
I read one of them as an adult, I noticed that it was about a
functional family.
>
>The Four-Story Mistake (Long) by Elizabeth Enright; Excellent, Very Low
Less interesting than her _The Saturdays_. Not sf.
>
>Young Adult Novel (Long) by Daniel Manus Pinkwater; Excellent, Very Low
>
Extremely funny in the first section, goes downhill when the main
characters go to college. Not sf in any formal sense, but it seems
to be set in a more entertaining universe than I'm living in.
>The Lady's Not For Burning (Script) by Christopher Fry; Near-Excellent,
>Low
>
Not sf, but really wonderful. Fast crisp language. Fry has mentioned
how people expect him to talk like someone from his plays, but that
sort of dialogue takes a lot of polishing.
>
>Maybe SF/F:
>
>Erase/Record/Play (16,000 words) by John M. Ford; Excellent, Very Low
>
Yes. Non-linear presentation. One of these years I'll reread it and
see whether I understood what was going on. SF.
>The Perilous Gard (Long) by Elizabeth Marie Pope; Near-Excellent, Medium
Read it long ago, but only remembered that I liked it. SF.
>Story of Your Life (20,000 words) by Ted Chiang; Near-Excellent, Low
Not my favorite of his work, but I've liked everything he's written.
I recommend _Seventy-Two Letters_ as his most impressive, but you
might as well read his recent complete collection. SF.
>
>Wasp (Long) by Eric Frank Russell; Near-Excellent, Medium
SF. Was really funny when I read it (probably in high school). Don't
know whether I'd like it now.
>
>The Daughter of Time (64,000 words) by Josephine Tey; Near-Excellent,
>High
A hospitalized police inspector needs something to do, and gets interested
in whether the princes in the tower were murdered, and if so, by whom.
I believe this is still a vexed question. Not SF, but probably of interest
to SF fans.
Christopher P. Winter
[a list of titles of AlexLit recommendations]
Most of these I don't know. But
>
>Wasp (Long) by Eric Frank Russell; Near-Excellent, Medium
>
is SF, and is very much worth reading. It's the story of one James
Mowry, restless and pigheaded, who is shanghaied (shanghied?) into acting
as a sapper in a war between Terra and the Sirian Combine. It's based in
part on Russell's experiences with the Kempetai (sp?) in post-war Japan.
James Nicoll
Not much SF, but it does feature an interesting break up scene.
>SF/F I Know Nothing About:
>
>The Long Run (Long) by Daniel Keys Moran; Excellent, Medium
Nothing original, not especially well written and yet the
author's clear enthusiasm for his own work and its subject matter
overcomes its shortcomings somehow.
--
"Frankly, Captain, I feel interstellar diplomacy is out of our
depth."
"Ah, hence the nuclear weapons."
Priscilla H Ballou
I don't understand anything you wrote about Alexlit or whatever it is, but
I get that you want more info about the books you listed.
>Totally Out Of Left Field Stuff:
>We Didn't Mean to Go to Sea (Long) by Arthur Ransome; Excellent, Very
>Low
One of a series of YA books about a bunch of English children who mess
about in boats. I was read the entire series as a kid and just loved
them. I rescued them all from the family home and am keeping them for my
niece. Eminiently re-readable as an adult. Nothing whatsoever to do with
SF/F.
>White Boots (Long) by Noel Streatfeild; Excellent, Very Low
Don't know this one, but other Noel Streatfields are good. YA.
>The Four-Story Mistake (Long) by Elizabeth Enright; Excellent, Very Low
Good kid's book, read when kid, don't remember more. Enjoyed everything I
read by her.
>Maybe SF/F:
>The Daughter of Time (64,000 words) by Josephine Tey; Near-Excellent,
>High
Nothing SF/F-ish about it to my mind. Tey's usual detective is in
hospital and investigates Richard III while laid up. Tries to determine
his innocence. Good book. I love all of Tey's stuff, particularly _Miss
Pym Disposes_. Good character-based English mystery writer.
Priscilla
--
"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."
- Albert Einstein
mike weber
>In article <ailsaek-06DC65...@netnews.attbi.com>, Ailsa Ek wrote:
>> We Didn't Mean to Go to Sea (Long) by Arthur Ransome; Excellent, Very
>> Low
>
>Another children's book, not SF or fantasy at all. Ransome was a
>British writer, his books are all about kids messing about with boats,
>mostly in the Lake District, but this one is about crossing the
>Channel kind of by mistake.
The North Sea. In a gale. In a boat much bigger than anything they
have ever sailed before. With inoperable engine and running lights.
With no charts of where they are or any way of knowing where they are
if they had the charts.
<snip>
>> Wasp (Long) by Eric Frank Russell; Near-Excellent, Medium
>
>This is SF. If you like clever golden age SF and haven't read it
>already, then both _Wasp_ and _Next of Kin_/_The Space Willies_ are a
>treat.
The second of those was originally serialised as "Plus X" in
"Astounding", accompanied by a one-page piece, photo-illustrated, on
how Kelly Freas built a miniature of the rifle he conceived for the
aliens.
--
=============================================================
"They put manure in his well and they made him talk to lawyers!"
-- Cat Ballou
mike weber -- <mike....@electronictiger.com>
Book Reviews & More -- http://electronictiger.com
mike weber
>We Didn't Mean to Go to Sea (Long) by Arthur Ransome; Excellent, Very
>Low
Wonderful YA/juvenile stuff; would make a great kid's adventure/action
movie with no real violence but real danger and heroism.
>
>Wasp (Long) by Eric Frank Russell; Near-Excellent, Medium
>
Definitely SF, though inspired by WW2. Typical Russell
"one-Earthman-against-hordes-of dumb-aliens" humour.
Nancy Lebovitz
Jo Walton <blu...@vif.com> wrote:
>
>> Sorry to bother people with book questions, but, well, you guys I know,
>> rasfw people I don't necessarily, and I haven't the stamina to wade
>> through it all to ask anything there.
>
>Yeah, well, that's what's killing rasfw. I can't say anything, I'm not
>reading it either, even though I would rather talk about books than
>anything.
>
found interesting discussion of sf, and I shudder to think how long
it would take just to mark the possibly interesting threads.
Perhaps rasfw-in-exile should mount an invasion?
James Nicoll
Nancy Lebovitz <na...@unix1.netaxs.com> wrote:
>In article <slrnapod7e...@localhost.localdomain>,
>Jo Walton <blu...@vif.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Sorry to bother people with book questions, but, well, you guys I know,
>>> rasfw people I don't necessarily, and I haven't the stamina to wade
>>> through it all to ask anything there.
>>
>>Yeah, well, that's what's killing rasfw. I can't say anything, I'm not
>>reading it either, even though I would rather talk about books than
>>anything.
>>
>I've been looking in on it. There is discussion of sf, but I haven't
>found interesting discussion of sf, and I shudder to think how long
>it would take just to mark the possibly interesting threads.
>
>Perhaps rasfw-in-exile should mount an invasion?
>
And for the contrarians:
[Monotone] No. No. DO not come to rasfw and start on-topic threads.
No. No.
Irina Rempt
> In article <ailsaek-06DC65...@netnews.attbi.com>,
> Ailsa Ek <ail...@mac.com> wrote:
>>The Changeover (Long) by Margaret Mahy; Excellent, Medium
>
> Liked it moderately. IIRC, it's sf. (Alien in high school?)
No, girl initiated into witchcraft by (male) classmate's mother and
grandmother, in order to rescue her little brother from warlock. I'd
call it YA urban fantasy. I bought it in my twenties and still like it.
Irina
--
Vesta veran, terna puran, farenin. http://www.valdyas.org/irina
Beghinnen can ick, volherden will' ick, volbringhen sal ick.
Priscilla H Ballou
>> White Boots (Long) by Noel Streatfeild; Excellent, Very Low
>This is yet another children's book. Streatfeild is another British
>writer. _White Boots_ is about a girl succeeding at ice-skating. I think
>it's one of her weakest, unless, presumably, you're mad about
>ice-skating. I'd recommend _Ballet Shoes_, _Thursday's Child_,
>_Caldicott Place_ or the _Gemma_ series. But I suspect you have to be
>eight years old to really enjoy this sort of book, at least the first
>time.
So this is _Skating Shoes_ retitled?
David Dyer-Bennet
> Yeah, well, that's what's killing rasfw. I can't say anything, I'm not
> reading it either, even though I would rather talk about books than
> anything.
Let me recommend, again, the virtues of auto-select. I find that most
groups are much more approachable if you read a few select people, and
then browse the threads nearby, rather than try to take on the whole
mass. (Or suitable score-files will do the same thing in a
scoring-based browser.)
Andrew Wheeler recently kicked off a "best 10 novels of the 50s"
thread based on SFBC actually going to issue such a list (he's already
made his picks, and I think is about to reveal them).
--
David Dyer-Bennet, dd...@dd-b.net / http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/
John Dyer-Bennet 1915-2002 Memorial Site http://john.dyer-bennet.net
Dragaera mailing lists, see http://dragaera.info
Elaine Thompson
Lebovitz) wrote:
>In article <ailsaek-06DC65...@netnews.attbi.com>,
>Ailsa Ek <ail...@mac.com> wrote:
>
SNIP
Chiming in a few listed that I've read:
>>
>>The Four-Story Mistake (Long) by Elizabeth Enright; Excellent, Very Low
>
>Less interesting than her _The Saturdays_. Not sf.
Family story, family moves to the country. Not bad, but not memorable
for me. I liked the follow-puzzle story better: Spider Web For Two.
>>The Perilous Gard (Long) by Elizabeth Marie Pope; Near-Excellent, Medium
>
>Read it long ago, but only remembered that I liked it. SF.
Very well done. Not SF but historical, set in northern England at the
end of Queen Mary's reign. Tam Lin retelling without visible magic
(IMO).
>>
>>The Daughter of Time (64,000 words) by Josephine Tey; Near-Excellent,
>>High
>
>A hospitalized police inspector needs something to do, and gets interested
>in whether the princes in the tower were murdered, and if so, by whom.
>I believe this is still a vexed question. Not SF, but probably of interest
>to SF fans.
It's a very good read, even though I disagree with the conclusions.
Also interesting to look at for how the author made the book
interesting with the main character never once out of bed.
--
Elaine Thompson <Ela...@KEThompson.org>
David Dyer-Bennet
> In article <ailsaek-06DC65...@netnews.attbi.com>,
> Ailsa Ek <ail...@mac.com> wrote:
> >Adam & I got talking about Alexlit recommendations on the train last
> >night, and I mentioned that I'd stopped going there because so many of
> >the books on my list were ones I knew nothing about at all, and had a
> >vague feeling weren't science fiction, and it occurred to me that there
> >are all these well-read people with opinions here, and maybe someone
> >could tell me something about some of these strange titles and authors.
> >
> >Actually doing the search, more of it was SF/F than I had remembered,
> >but much is still stuff I know nothing about (or things I don't plan on
> >reading, like _Deepness in the Sky_). I snipped everything I'd heard
> >of, and left only the "Huh, wha' da'?" listings from the first two pages.
> >
> >Totally Out Of Left Field Stuff:
> >
> The term in parenthesis is presumably the length of the book, but
> what do the two after the title refer to?
>
> >The Changeover (Long) by Margaret Mahy; Excellent, Medium
I'm assuming it's your predicted liking (Excellent), and the
confidence their software has in that prediction (Medium). That's the
way it used to work, anyway.
Thomas Yan
-snip-
> Actually doing the search, more of it was SF/F than I had remembered,
> but much is still stuff I know nothing about (or things I don't plan on
> reading, like _Deepness in the Sky_).
Why not? Oh. Is it because you heard there was a, let's see, let's
call it an unpleasant sexual relationship?
> I snipped everything I'd heard of, and left only the "Huh, wha'
> da'?" listings from the first two pages.
>
> Totally Out Of Left Field Stuff:
>
-snip-
> Mockingbird (Long) by Sean Stewart; Excellent, Very Low
He writes SF, and is on my mental to-try list.
-snip-
> Young Adult Novel (Long) by Daniel Manus Pinkwater; Excellent, Very Low
Another SF author I plan to try.
> The Lady's Not For Burning (Script) by Christopher Fry; Near-Excellent,
> Low
Alas, I did not like this. I read it because it is mentioned in
Pamela Dean's _Tam Lin_ and various RASFW netizens liked this play. I
also bought a VHS tape of a movie version starring Kenneth Brannagh,
but didn't much care for that eiter, so I gave it away to Pamela.
> Maybe SF/F:
>
> Erase/Record/Play (16,000 words) by John M. Ford; Excellent, Very Low
Have you read any Ford? I find his books to range from good to very
good. It seems like I often am missing things that would raise the
range from very good to excellent. I liked this short story.
-snip-
> The Perilous Gard (Long) by Elizabeth Marie Pope; Near-Excellent, Medium
Very good, but not great. I was on a brief Tam Lin kick and read
this, DWJ's _Fire and Hemlock_, and Alan Garner's _Red Shift_. I like
Dean's _Tam Lin_ way better than any of those.
> Story of Your Life (20,000 words) by Ted Chiang; Near-Excellent, Low
This is a terrific story.
-snip-
Adina Adler
> In article <ailsaek-06DC65...@netnews.attbi.com>,
> Ailsa Ek <ail...@mac.com> wrote:
> >Adam & I got talking about Alexlit recommendations on the train last
> >night, and I mentioned that I'd stopped going there because so many of
> >the books on my list were ones I knew nothing about at all, and had a
> >vague feeling weren't science fiction, and it occurred to me that there
> >are all these well-read people with opinions here, and maybe someone
> >could tell me something about some of these strange titles and authors.
> >
> >Actually doing the search, more of it was SF/F than I had remembered,
> >but much is still stuff I know nothing about (or things I don't plan on
> >reading, like _Deepness in the Sky_). I snipped everything I'd heard
> >of, and left only the "Huh, wha' da'?" listings from the first two pages.
> >
> >Totally Out Of Left Field Stuff:
> >
> The term in parenthesis is presumably the length of the book, but
> what do the two after the title refer to?
Projected rating and confidence. So, for example, they have very
little confidence that she'll like Mockingbird, which makes me wonder
why they're recommending it at all.
> >
> >Mockingbird (Long) by Sean Stewart; Excellent, Very Low
>
> Definitely sf--a woman inherits a bunch of small annoying gods
> from her mother, and needs to figure out how to deal with them.
> I recommend it.
Haven't read it, but I did like Galveston, by the same author--magic
comes into the world and wreaks havoc, and people have to come to an
accommodation with it.
>
> >White Boots (Long) by Noel Streatfeild; Excellent, Very Low
>
> Haven't read it, but I've liked some of her other books. When
> I read one of them as an adult, I noticed that it was about a
> functional family.
Really? Gosh. I read some of her books, and I thought they usually
started out with awful situations suddenly becoming better. Come to
think of it, I suppose that's not a contradiction.
> >
> >The Four-Story Mistake (Long) by Elizabeth Enright; Excellent, Very Low
>
> Less interesting than her _The Saturdays_. Not sf.
I suppose _The Saturdays_ was better, but I like all of the Melendy
books. I started reading them when I was about seven, though, so that
may make a difference.
> >
> >Young Adult Novel (Long) by Daniel Manus Pinkwater; Excellent, Very Low
> >
> Extremely funny in the first section, goes downhill when the main
> characters go to college. Not sf in any formal sense, but it seems
> to be set in a more entertaining universe than I'm living in.
Daniel Pinkwater's writing is usually a lot of fun. Sometimes it's
kind of surreal, but I'm not sure I'd call it sf or fantasy.
--
Adina
jkr
"Priscilla H Ballou" <p...@shell01.TheWorld.com> wrote:
> Jo Walton <blu...@vif.com> quoth:
> >> White Boots (Long) by Noel Streatfeild; Excellent, Very Low
>
> >This is yet another children's book. Streatfeild is another British
> >writer. _White Boots_ is about a girl succeeding at ice-skating. I think
> >it's one of her weakest, unless, presumably, you're mad about
> >ice-skating. I'd recommend _Ballet Shoes_, _Thursday's Child_,
> >_Caldicott Place_ or the _Gemma_ series. But I suspect you have to be
> >eight years old to really enjoy this sort of book, at least the first
> >time.
>
> So this is _Skating Shoes_ retitled?
Yes. Or, rather, it's one of several Streatfeild books for which the
British and American editions have different titles. (bookfinder only has
titles, not plot summaries...) I think _Party Frock_ and _Apple Bough_ are
two of these but can't remember which of the _Shoes_ books they correspond
to.
jkr
Kip Williams
> On Thu, 03 Oct 2002 14:06:35 GMT, Ailsa Ek <ail...@mac.com> posted
> the following for all the world to see:
>
> I really liked this. The four-story mistake is the house that a
> family moves into. IIRC the POV is an adolescent daughter. This is a
> juvenile.
They follow different kids at different times. A big favorite in my
family.
>>The Lady's Not For Burning (Script) by Christopher Fry; Near-Excellent,
>>Low
>
> I enjoyed a production of this that I saw when I was a teen. Don't
> remember much, just fascinating, exciting word usage.
Yeah, I've seen a good production of it, too.
Also mentioned: The Daughter of Time, by Josephine Tey. An
interesting thing to read, and a good presentation of the arguments.
I'm generally sympathetic to these arguments myself, but I can hear
Tey stacking the deck sometimes. Still recommended.
--
--Kip (Williams) ...at members.cox.net/kipw
Beaver: "Oh, he didn't cheat a whole lot, just enough to win."
Gilbert: "That's all you got to cheat, just enough to win." ("Leave
it to Beaver")
Kate Nepveu
>I snipped everything I'd heard
>of, and left only the "Huh, wha' da'?" listings from the first two pages.
>Totally Out Of Left Field Stuff:
[...]
>Mockingbird (Long) by Sean Stewart; Excellent, Very Low
Very good fantasy novel about motherhood. I have a review of it on my
page.
[...]
>Young Adult Novel (Long) by Daniel Manus Pinkwater; Excellent, Very Low
I don't think I've read this one. Pinkwater is Weird in a way that I
don't quite care for, as I like something approaching coherence in my
plots. But very inventively so.
>The Lady's Not For Burning (Script) by Christopher Fry; Near-Excellent,
>Low
A play, and an excellent one. Somewhere I saw it described as two
people saving each other from death, and life.
"Into Pandora's box with all the ills.
But not if that little hell-cat Hope's
Already in possession. I've hoped enough.
I gave the best years of my life to that girl,
But I'm walking out with Damnation now, and she's
A flame who's got finality."
Let me second or fifth the recommendations for:
>Erase/Record/Play (16,000 words) by John M. Ford; Excellent, Very Low
>Story of Your Life (20,000 words) by Ted Chiang; Near-Excellent, Low
>The Daughter of Time (64,000 words) by Josephine Tey; Near-Excellent,
>High
>The Long Run (Long) by Daniel Keys Moran; Excellent, Medium
--
Kate Nepveu
E-mail: kne...@steelypips.org *new*
Home: http://www.steelypips.org/
Book log: http://www.steelypips.org/weblog/
Richard Horton
>Totally Out Of Left Field Stuff:
>
>The Cricket Term (Long) by Antonia Forest; Near-Fabulous, Very Low
>
Lots of Antonia Forest books showed up in people's rec lists on
Alexlit a while back -- evidently there is a fan or two using it. I
understand that they are Girl's English Boarding School books, and
highly regarded of that type. (Me, I'd like to see a finished version
of the naughty spoofs of that sort of thing Philip Larkin and Kingsley
Amis fooled around with in the 40s.)
>The Changeover (Long) by Margaret Mahy; Excellent, Medium
>
New Zealand writer of Children's and YA books -- I've only read a
couple of picture books, which display a rather offbeat sense of
humour.
>Mockingbird (Long) by Sean Stewart; Excellent, Very Low
>
This is SF, or at any rate straightforward Urban Fantasy, by an
American/Canadian writer of some very good stuff.
>We Didn't Mean to Go to Sea (Long) by Arthur Ransome; Excellent, Very
>Low
>
Well-regarded English kids' books in roughly the Enid Wosshername
category.
>White Boots (Long) by Noel Streatfeild; Excellent, Very Low
>
>The Four-Story Mistake (Long) by Elizabeth Enright; Excellent, Very Low
>
>Young Adult Novel (Long) by Daniel Manus Pinkwater; Excellent, Very Low
>
Very short, very very funny, very sharp YA book. Pinkwater is
excellent -- much of his stuff is SFish, but not this one.
>The Lady's Not For Burning (Script) by Christopher Fry; Near-Excellent,
>Low
>
>
>Maybe SF/F:
>
>Erase/Record/Play (16,000 words) by John M. Ford; Excellent, Very Low
>
SF, very good indeed
>Espedair Street (102,000 words) by Iain Banks; Excellent, Low
>
Not SF, but one of the best-regarded mainstream books by this
excellent SF writer.
>The Perilous Gard (Long) by Elizabeth Marie Pope; Near-Excellent, Medium
>
>Story of Your Life (20,000 words) by Ted Chiang; Near-Excellent, Low
>
Absolutely brilliant SF novella.
>Wasp (Long) by Eric Frank Russell; Near-Excellent, Medium
>
Well-regarded light SF about a "terrorist" operation on an alien
planet.
>The Daughter of Time (64,000 words) by Josephine Tey; Near-Excellent,
>High
Not SF -- a mystery about Richard III. It's absolutely wonderful, one
of my favorite mystery novels ever. Of course, given my first name, I
am prejudiced to novels taking the pro-Ricardian viewpoint.
>SF/F I Know Nothing About:
>
>The Long Run (Long) by Daniel Keys Moran; Excellent, Medium
>
>Sorry to bother people with book questions, but, well, you guys I know,
>rasfw people I don't necessarily, and I haven't the stamina to wade
>through it all to ask anything there.
You could also try the alexlit newsgroup on SFF-Net. Adam used to
post there regularly, as I recall.
And really, talk about books on rasfw, you'll get good conversation.
Talk about politics -- maybe not!
Anyway I don't think Alexlit hates you -- by and large these are good
recommendations.
--
Rich Horton | Stable Email: mailto://richard...@sff.net
Home Page: http://www.sff.net/people/richard.horton
Also visit SF Site (http://www.sfsite.com) and Tangent Online (http://www.tangentonline.com)
raymond larsson
> In article <Gl0n9.721$bJ6.8...@newshog.newsread.com>,
> >Perhaps rasfw-in-exile should mount an invasion?
> >
> Please do.
It's not like I have a life.
> And for the contrarians:
>
> [Monotone] No. No. DO not come to rasfw and start on-topic threads.
> No. No.
Ignore them, they are completely lacking in affect.
aRJay
>Adam & I got talking about Alexlit recommendations on the train last
>night, and I mentioned that I'd stopped going there because so many of
>the books on my list were ones I knew nothing about at all, and had a
>vague feeling weren't science fiction, and it occurred to me that there
>are all these well-read people with opinions here, and maybe someone
>could tell me something about some of these strange titles and authors.
>
>Actually doing the search, more of it was SF/F than I had remembered,
>but much is still stuff I know nothing about (or things I don't plan on
>of, and left only the "Huh, wha' da'?" listings from the first two pages.
>
>Low
>
and adventures of two or three groups of children during the summer
holidays while they are messing about in sailing boats. Most of the
series are set in the English Lake District. They are good reads in my
opinion.
>Wasp (Long) by Eric Frank Russell; Near-Excellent, Medium
>
Science Fiction about a volunteer from earth who is dropped on one of
the worlds controlled by Sirius to become a one man resistance movement
during an interstellar war. Some of the tricks are apparently based on
real ones that Russell and others were putting forward to keep the Axis
powers entertained during the war whilst the allies were getting up to
something else.
The title comes from an example given to the protagonist of how
something small (a wasp) can destroy something huge (a car full of
people). Good fun.
--
aRJay
"In this great and creatorless universe, where so much beautiful has
come to be out of the chance interactions of the basic properties of
matter, it seems so important that we love one another."
- Lucy Kemnitzer
Captain Button
na...@unix1.netaxs.com (Nancy Lebovitz) wrote:
>In article <slrnapod7e...@localhost.localdomain>,
>Jo Walton <blu...@vif.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Sorry to bother people with book questions, but, well, you guys I know,
>>> rasfw people I don't necessarily, and I haven't the stamina to wade
>>> through it all to ask anything there.
>>
>>Yeah, well, that's what's killing rasfw. I can't say anything, I'm not
>>reading it either, even though I would rather talk about books than
>>anything.
>>
>I've been looking in on it. There is discussion of sf, but I haven't
>found interesting discussion of sf, and I shudder to think how long
>it would take just to mark the possibly interesting threads.
>
>Perhaps rasfw-in-exile should mount an invasion?
Who will be first against the wall once you seize power?
--
"We have to go forth and crush every world view that doesn't believe in
tolerance and free speech," - David Brin
Captain Button - but...@io.com
Tom Scudder
> In article <anhpek$9uf$1...@news.efn.org>,
> Loren Joseph MacGregor <lmac...@garcia.efn.org> wrote:
> >
> >Daniel Pinkwater -is- a fantasy writer, and a children's book
> >novelist, and more that I could not describe without writing a
> >very long article -- and it may be time to do so. He's been
> >and may still be (I don't have a radio, so I don't know) a
> >columnist for NPR. I would recommend Young Adult Novel,
> >which is a young adult novel
The funniest story I've ever read. I still can't read it without milk
shooting out of my nose.
> > and, in no particular order,
> >"The Snarkout Boys and the Avocado of Death," (to "snark out"
> >is to sneak out of the house to see the horrible double and
> >triple bills at the Snark Theater), "Alan Mendelsohn, the Boy
> >from Mars" (Did you ever go to school with a kid who appears
> >to be from some other planet? In this case, he -is-),
> >"Lizard Music" (in which suddenly, and without explanation,
> >everyone on late night TV turns into a lizard; the novel
>
> I second the recommendations, and especially add _Yobgorgle_
> and _The Last Guru_. _Fat Camp Commandos_ is pretty good, too.
There was a compilation called something like FIVE NOVELS BY DANIEL
PINKWATER which included Young Adult Novel, The Snarkout Boys and the
Avocado of Death, Alan Mendelsohn, The Last Guru, and Fat Men from
Outer Space (under the title "Slaves of Spiegel".
There was a four novels collection as well, I think, which included
the other snarkout boys book and I don't know what else.
Nancy Lebovitz
Adina Adler <ad...@panix.com> wrote:
>na...@unix1.netaxs.com (Nancy Lebovitz) writes:
>
>> >
>> >Young Adult Novel (Long) by Daniel Manus Pinkwater; Excellent, Very Low
>> >
>> Extremely funny in the first section, goes downhill when the main
>> characters go to college. Not sf in any formal sense, but it seems
>> to be set in a more entertaining universe than I'm living in.
>
>Daniel Pinkwater's writing is usually a lot of fun. Sometimes it's
>kind of surreal, but I'm not sure I'd call it sf or fantasy.
Neither would I, but I can't formalize why a story including
sentient lizards living on an invisible island near Chicago wouldn't
be sf.
Nancy Lebovitz
Jo Walton
> na...@unix1.netaxs.com (Nancy Lebovitz) writes:
>
>>
>> Haven't read it, but I've liked some of her other books. When
>> I read one of them as an adult, I noticed that it was about a
>> functional family.
>
> Really? Gosh. I read some of her books, and I thought they usually
> started out with awful situations suddenly becoming better. Come to
> think of it, I suppose that's not a contradiction.
I think she writes a lot about children from non-functional families
discovering an "ordinary" functional family and becoming part of it. The
children from non-functional families are often what would be considered
"lucky" -- Gemma in the _Gemma_ books is a child film star, the orphans
in _Caldicott Place_ are very rich, or you have a child who thinks their
amazing talent for ballet/skating/whatever is the most important thing
in the world distorting their functional family and the way it reacts to
that. (_The Painted Garden_ would be my favourite example of that one,
and it also contains a lovely description of a middle-class British
family in the 1950s coping with going to California, and a lovely
description of making a film of _The Secret Garden_.) _Ballet Shoes_ is
an oddity really in the pattern of her books, though it is about
discovering family, the family in it is very unconventional.
Streatfeild also wrote some adult novels, only one of which I've read,
but that one impressed me quite a bit. It's called _Mother's Day_ and
it's also about family
I recently re-read _Caldicott Place_ (because there it was in the
library and I had last read it when I was ten or eleven, it's one of the
books I didn't bring with me when I ran away from home and was never
able to replace and then forgot about) and I was quite impressed how
well it held up. It's largely about how a functional middle-class family
cope when the breadwinning father is injured in an accident and becomes
morose and depressed and can't work. It's a children's book, and things
become much easier than they would in real life when -- quite a way
through the story -- the youngest child inherits a large house from an
old lady he's been kind to, but it's relatively realistic about things
like money and the way it deals with the family dymamics of the original
family and the rich orphans they take in to keep the wolf from the door.
I think even when I was a child they were comfort reads, I knew what I
was getting, there isn't much strangeness there. (And the strangeness
there was came from the theatrical world many of them touch on, which
did fascinate me. I don't know how many times I read the _Gemma_ books,
but I could tell you the plots in detail even now.) But they're well
done examples of what they are.
--
Jo I kissed a kif at Kefk blu...@vif.com
THE KING'S PEACE paperback available now from Tor Books!
THE KING'S NAME hardback still available
THE PRIZE IN THE GAME coming in November http://www.bluejo.demon.co.uk
Priscilla H Ballou
>>We Didn't Mean to Go to Sea (Long) by Arthur Ransome; Excellent, Very
>>Low
>>
>One of the Swallows and Amazons books, they generally concern the fun
>and adventures of two or three groups of children during the summer
>holidays while they are messing about in sailing boats. Most of the
>series are set in the English Lake District. They are good reads in my
>opinion.
Nits, picking thereof: _Winter Holiday_ is not set in the summer. While
many are, indeed, set in the Lake District, several are set in the Norfolk
Broads.
Priscilla
P.S. Karabadangbaraka
Andrew Plotkin
> na...@unix1.netaxs.com (Nancy Lebovitz) wrote in message news:<Vt%m9.940$Vi4.6...@monger.newsread.com>...
>> In article <anhpek$9uf$1...@news.efn.org>,
>> Loren Joseph MacGregor <lmac...@garcia.efn.org> wrote:
>> >
>> >Daniel Pinkwater -is- a fantasy writer, and a children's book
>> >novelist, and more that I could not describe without writing a
>> >very long article -- and it may be time to do so. He's been
>> >and may still be (I don't have a radio, so I don't know) a
>> >columnist for NPR. I would recommend Young Adult Novel,
>> >which is a young adult novel
> The funniest story I've ever read. I still can't read it without milk
> shooting out of my nose.
And that's the epistemologically perfect reaction, too. :)
>> > and, in no particular order,
>> >"The Snarkout Boys and the Avocado of Death," (to "snark out"
>> >is to sneak out of the house to see the horrible double and
>> >triple bills at the Snark Theater), "Alan Mendelsohn, the Boy
>> >from Mars" (Did you ever go to school with a kid who appears
>> >to be from some other planet? In this case, he -is-),
>> >"Lizard Music" (in which suddenly, and without explanation,
>> >everyone on late night TV turns into a lizard; the novel
>>
>> I second the recommendations, and especially add _Yobgorgle_
>> and _The Last Guru_. _Fat Camp Commandos_ is pretty good, too.
> There was a compilation called something like FIVE NOVELS BY DANIEL
> PINKWATER which included Young Adult Novel, The Snarkout Boys and the
> Avocado of Death, Alan Mendelsohn, The Last Guru, and Fat Men from
> Outer Space (under the title "Slaves of Spiegel".
Whoop, "Slaves of Spiegel" is *not* "Fat Men From Outer Space",
although it does involve the Fat Men from Outer Space kidnapping
people.
> There was a four novels collection as well, I think, which included
> the other snarkout boys book and I don't know what else.
_Borgel_, _Yobgorgle_, _The Worms of Kukumlima_, _The Snarkout Boys
and the Baconburg Horror_.
--Z
"And Aholibamah bare Jeush, and Jaalam, and Korah: these were the borogoves..."
*
* Make your vote count. Get your vote counted.
mike weber
<rrho...@prodigy.net> typed
>On Thu, 03 Oct 2002 14:06:35 GMT, Ailsa Ek <ail...@mac.com> wrote:
>>We Didn't Mean to Go to Sea (Long) by Arthur Ransome; Excellent, Very
>>Low
>>
>Well-regarded English kids' books in roughly the Enid Wosshername
>category.
I can't place the woman, but, since Ransome to a great extent seems to
have invented the "holiday stories" category (according to a couple of
bios), one might well place her work in the "Ransome category".
Loren Joseph MacGregor
>On Fri, 04 Oct 2002 02:58:48 GMT, Richard Horton
><rrho...@prodigy.net> typed
>>On Thu, 03 Oct 2002 14:06:35 GMT, Ailsa Ek <ail...@mac.com> wrote:
>>>We Didn't Mean to Go to Sea (Long) by Arthur Ransome; Excellent, Very
>>>Low
>>>
>>Well-regarded English kids' books in roughly the Enid Wosshername
>>category.
>I can't place the woman, but, since Ransome to a great extent seems to
>have invented the "holiday stories" category (according to a couple of
>bios), one might well place her work in the "Ransome category".
... right next to "The Ransome of Red Chief"
--- LJM
--
+------------------------------------------+
| Loren J MacGregor + The Churn Works |
| Systems Administrator + Technical Writer |
| churn...@att.net + lmac...@efn.org |
+------------------------------------------+
Doug Faunt N6TQS +1-510-655-8604
> On Fri, 04 Oct 2002 02:58:48 GMT, Richard Horton
> <rrho...@prodigy.net> typed
>
> >On Thu, 03 Oct 2002 14:06:35 GMT, Ailsa Ek <ail...@mac.com> wrote:
>
> >>We Didn't Mean to Go to Sea (Long) by Arthur Ransome; Excellent, Very
> >>Low
> >>
> >Well-regarded English kids' books in roughly the Enid Wosshername
> >category.
>
> I can't place the woman, but, since Ransome to a great extent seems to
> have invented the "holiday stories" category (according to a couple of
> bios), one might well place her work in the "Ransome category".
> --
Enid Blyton. Boring.
The first of Ransome's S&A books, -Swallows and Amazons- is the
weakest. -We Didn't Mean to Go To Sea-, and -Winter Holiday- stand
alone pretty well, and are the best of the series, and -The Picts and
The Martyrs- is, along with those two, among my favorites. I think
they're all very good, of course.
73, doug
Tim Illingworth
>The first of Ransome's S&A books, -Swallows and Amazons- is the
>weakest. -We Didn't Mean to Go To Sea-, and -Winter Holiday- stand
>alone pretty well, and are the best of the series, and -The Picts and
>The Martyrs- is, along with those two, among my favorites. I think
>they're all very good, of course.
So what did you think of "Coots in the North"?
Tim
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Illingworth t...@smof.demon.co.uk Go not to Usenet for advice, for
Coveney, tim...@compuserve.com they will say both 'No' and 'Yes'
Cambs, UK tim...@cix.co.uk and 'Try Another Newsgroup'
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
David G. Bell
<aaerpucb7shgcr2kb...@4ax.com>
mike....@electronictiger.com "mike weber" wrote:
> On Fri, 04 Oct 2002 02:58:48 GMT, Richard Horton
> <rrho...@prodigy.net> typed
>
> >On Thu, 03 Oct 2002 14:06:35 GMT, Ailsa Ek <ail...@mac.com> wrote:
>
> >>We Didn't Mean to Go to Sea (Long) by Arthur Ransome; Excellent, Very
> >>Low
> >>
> >Well-regarded English kids' books in roughly the Enid Wosshername
> >category.
>
> I can't place the woman, but, since Ransome to a great extent seems to
> have invented the "holiday stories" category (according to a couple of
> bios), one might well place her work in the "Ransome category".
I'm guessing at the prolific Enid Blyton, who seems to have been
prolific in several categories of children's fiction, some of which are
certainly in the same area as Ransome. For instance, the "Famous Five"
stories. Others are very different.
But, apart from Titty recovering Captain Flint's trunk and some juvenile
vandalism, Ransome doesn't use the common Blyton adventuring theme
which, today, we are more likely to associate with Scooby-Doo.
(The influence of The Famous Five on Scooby-Doo... Well, it might be
more interesting than the Christianity thread.)
I'm not sure what to make of Peter Duck and Missee Lee.
--
David G. Bell -- SF Fan, Filker, and Punslinger.
"Let me get this straight. You're the KGB's core AI, but you're afraid
of a copyright infringement lawsuit over your translator semiotics?"
From "Lobsters" by Charles Stross.
Priscilla H Ballou
>On 04 Oct, in article <mfru1k2...@panix3.panix.com>
> fa...@panix.com "Doug Faunt N6TQS +1-510-655-8604" wrote:
>>The first of Ransome's S&A books, -Swallows and Amazons- is the
>>weakest. -We Didn't Mean to Go To Sea-, and -Winter Holiday- stand
>>alone pretty well, and are the best of the series, and -The Picts and
>>The Martyrs- is, along with those two, among my favorites. I think
>>they're all very good, of course.
>So what did you think of "Coots in the North"?
I don't know this one, although I do know _Coots Club_. Please tell more!
Priscilla
Ailsa Ek
> Ailsa Ek <ail...@mac.com> writes:
>
> -snip-
> > Actually doing the search, more of it was SF/F than I had remembered,
> > but much is still stuff I know nothing about (or things I don't plan on
> > reading, like _Deepness in the Sky_).
>
> Why not? Oh. Is it because you heard there was a, let's see, let's
> call it an unpleasant sexual relationship?
>
extremely depressing).
> > Maybe SF/F:
> >
> > The Perilous Gard (Long) by Elizabeth Marie Pope; Near-Excellent,
> > Medium
>
> Very good, but not great. I was on a brief Tam Lin kick and read
> this, DWJ's _Fire and Hemlock_, and Alan Garner's _Red Shift_. I like
> Dean's _Tam Lin_ way better than any of those.
>
I really don't like _Fire and Hemlock_. How do this & _Tam Lin_ compare?
> > Erase/Record/Play (16,000 words) by John M. Ford; Excellent, Very Low
>
> Have you read any Ford? I find his books to range from good to very
> good. It seems like I often am missing things that would raise the
> range from very good to excellent. I liked this short story.
>
> > Story of Your Life (20,000 words) by Ted Chiang; Near-Excellent, Low
>
> This is a terrific story.
>
These two, based on the reviews I've been reading here, I am going to be
actively looking for. Neither of these authors is familiar to me, so
I'm happy to add two more to my list.
--
What can you do with your days but work and hope, Ailsa C. Ek
Let your dreams bind your work to your play? ail...@mac.com
What can you do with every moment of your life Sharon, MA
But love 'til you love it away? - Bob Franke http://pages.ivillage.com/ailsaek
Irina Rempt
> I really don't like _Fire and Hemlock_.
Why not? Knowing that would make it easier to compare it to _Tam Lin_,
because there are marked similarities and differences (more differences
than similarities, though).
Don't you like Diana Wynne Jones in general at all, or is it just that
book?
I love both, and _Fire and Hemlock_ is perhaps my favourite of the two;
I thought we'd be more similar :-)
Irina
--
Vesta veran, terna puran, farenin. http://www.valdyas.org/irina
Beghinnen can ick, volherden will' ick, volbringhen sal ick.
Timothy McDaniel
wrote:
>Also mentioned: The Daughter of Time, by Josephine Tey. An
>interesting thing to read, and a good presentation of the arguments.
>I'm generally sympathetic to these arguments myself, but I can hear
>Tey stacking the deck sometimes.
"Stacking the deck sometimes"? More like presenting a pinochle deck
when she didn't realize she wasn't playing with a full deck.
--
Tim McDaniel, tm...@panix.com; tm...@us.ibm.com is my work address
Doug Faunt N6TQS +1-510-655-8604
> Tim Illingworth <t...@smof.demon.co.uk> quoth:
> >On 04 Oct, in article <mfru1k2...@panix3.panix.com>
> > fa...@panix.com "Doug Faunt N6TQS +1-510-655-8604" wrote:
>
> >>The first of Ransome's S&A books, -Swallows and Amazons- is the
> >>weakest. -We Didn't Mean to Go To Sea-, and -Winter Holiday- stand
> >>alone pretty well, and are the best of the series, and -The Picts and
> >>The Martyrs- is, along with those two, among my favorites. I think
> >>they're all very good, of course.
>
> >So what did you think of "Coots in the North"?
>
> I don't know this one, although I do know _Coots Club_. Please tell more!
>
-Coots In the North and Other Stories- is a collection of fragments of
an unfinished S&A book called "Coots in the North" for lack of a
better title (Ransome didn't have a title, apparently), and some of
Ransome's short stories. CITN is a good beginning, and I'm very
sorry Ransome didn't finish it. It would have been interesting to
see how the working class Norfolk boys interact with the other, all
middle class, children.
Briefly, Pete, Joe and Bill, the boatbuilders' sons from -Coot Club-
and -Big Six- end up in the Lake District by stowing away on a
new-built boat and fall in with the Swallows, Amazons and D's.
Of the short stories, I particularly like "Two Shorts and a Long".
And, in fact, only five of the dozen books take place in the Lake
District (or six of thirteen, if you count CITN).
73, doug
Thomas Yan
> Ailsa Ek <ail...@mac.com> writes:
>
-snip-
> > The Perilous Gard (Long) by Elizabeth Marie Pope; Near-Excellent, Medium
>
> Very good, but not great. I was on a brief Tam Lin kick and read
> this, DWJ's _Fire and Hemlock_, and Alan Garner's _Red Shift_. I like
> Dean's _Tam Lin_ way better than any of those.
Amplification: "brief" was actually a few years. Plus, I forgot to
mention _Thursday_ Catherine Storr, who wrote _Marianne Dreams_ (made
into the movie "Paperhouse") and _Clever Polly and the Stupid Wolf_.
Avram Grumer
Ailsa Ek <ail...@mac.com> wrote:
> In article <m1adlvf...@twcny.rr.com>, Thomas Yan
> <ty...@twcny.rr.com> wrote:
> > Ailsa Ek <ail...@mac.com> writes:
> >
> > > Actually doing the search, more of it was SF/F than I had
> > > remembered, but much is still stuff I know nothing about (or
> > > things I don't plan on reading, like _Deepness in the Sky_).
> >
> > Why not? Oh. Is it because you heard there was a, let's see,
> > let's call it an unpleasant sexual relationship?
>
> Nope, just that the filks of it I've heard are oser than ose (i.e.
> extremely depressing).
That's really, really strange.
--
Avram Grumer / "There will never be
av...@grumer.org / a technology that beats
www.PigsAndFishes.org / having lunch..."
www.livejournal.com/users/agrumer/ -- Jakob Nielsen
Del Cotter
Captain Button <but...@io.com> said:
>na...@unix1.netaxs.com (Nancy Lebovitz) wrote:
>>>Yeah, well, that's what's killing rasfw. I can't say anything, I'm not
>>>reading it either, even though I would rather talk about books than
>>>anything.
>>
>>I've been looking in on it. There is discussion of sf, but I haven't
>>found interesting discussion of sf, and I shudder to think how long
>>it would take just to mark the possibly interesting threads.
>>
>>Perhaps rasfw-in-exile should mount an invasion?
>
>Who will be first against the wall once you seize power?
First they came for Anonymous and I said nothing, for I was not a
copyright violator. Then they came for Austin, and I still said
nothing, because I wasn't a troll...
--
. . . . Del Cotter d...@branta.demon.co.uk . . . .
JustRead:ThreeMenInABoat:WilliamGoldmanThePrincessBride:AlastairReynolds
RevelationSpace:GregEganQuarantine:KimStanleyRobinsonTheYearsOfRice&Salt
ToRead:BenJeapesHisMajesty'sStarship:JohnCrowleyLittle,Big:RobertCharles
aRJay
<p...@shell01.TheWorld.com> writes
>aRJay <aR...@escore.demon.co.uk> quoth:
>>>We Didn't Mean to Go to Sea (Long) by Arthur Ransome; Excellent, Very
>>>Low
>>>
>>One of the Swallows and Amazons books, they generally concern the fun
>>and adventures of two or three groups of children during the summer
>>holidays while they are messing about in sailing boats. Most of the
>>series are set in the English Lake District. They are good reads in my
>>opinion.
>
>Nits, picking thereof: _Winter Holiday_ is not set in the summer. While
>many are, indeed, set in the Lake District, several are set in the Norfolk
>Broads.
>
From dodgy memory.
Lake District.
Swallows and Amazons, Swallowdale, Picts and Martyrs, Winter Holiday,
Pigeon Post.
Broads.
Coot Club, The Big Six.(?)
Scottish Islands.
Great Northern.
South China Seas.
Missie Lee. (SP?)
Harwich and North Sea.
We Didn't Mean to got to Sea.
East Coast (Walton on the Naze area I think)
Secret Water.
?
Peter Duck
Priscilla H Ballou
>In article <H3GqF...@world.std.com>, Priscilla H Ballou
><p...@shell01.TheWorld.com> writes
>>aRJay <aR...@escore.demon.co.uk> quoth:
>>>>We Didn't Mean to Go to Sea (Long) by Arthur Ransome; Excellent, Very
>>>>Low
>>>>
>>>One of the Swallows and Amazons books, they generally concern the fun
>>>and adventures of two or three groups of children during the summer
>>>holidays while they are messing about in sailing boats. Most of the
>>>series are set in the English Lake District. They are good reads in my
>>>opinion.
>>
>>Nits, picking thereof: _Winter Holiday_ is not set in the summer. While
>>many are, indeed, set in the Lake District, several are set in the Norfolk
>>Broads.
>>
>True but I had placed mild weasel words.
Yeah, they'd kinda faded into the background when I read.
>From dodgy memory.
>Lake District.
> Swallows and Amazons, Swallowdale, Picts and Martyrs, Winter Holiday,
>Pigeon Post.
>Broads.
> Coot Club, The Big Six.(?)
>Scottish Islands.
> Great Northern.
Huh. Been too long since I read that. I hadn't remembered that any were
set in the Scottish islands.
>South China Seas.
> Missie Lee. (SP?)
>Harwich and North Sea.
> We Didn't Mean to got to Sea.
Starts off in the Broads, doesn't it? It's been a long time, though, and
I'm not really good at English geography.
>East Coast (Walton on the Naze area I think)
> Secret Water.
>?
> Peter Duck
Priscilla, still waiting for a response to her karabadangbaraka
Thomas Yan
> In article <m1adlvf...@twcny.rr.com>, Thomas Yan
> <ty...@twcny.rr.com> wrote:
> > Ailsa Ek <ail...@mac.com> writes:
> >
> > -snip-
> > > Actually doing the search, more of it was SF/F than I had remembered,
> > > but much is still stuff I know nothing about (or things I don't plan on
> > > reading, like _Deepness in the Sky_).
> >
> > Why not? Oh. Is it because you heard there was a, let's see, let's
> > call it an unpleasant sexual relationship?
> >
> Nope, just that the filks of it I've heard are oser than ose (i.e.
> extremely depressing).
I won't comment on how the filks relate to the book --(a) I'm
unfamiliar with the filks and have no idea what might be in them, and
(b) I don't want to spoil the book by commenting whether I think it is
surprising vs expected that the filks are depressing-- but I will say
that I think it is a really, really good book. I highly recommend it.
> > > Maybe SF/F:
> > >
> > > The Perilous Gard (Long) by Elizabeth Marie Pope; Near-Excellent,
> > > Medium
> >
> > Very good, but not great. I was on a brief Tam Lin kick and read
> > this, DWJ's _Fire and Hemlock_, and Alan Garner's _Red Shift_. I like
> > Dean's _Tam Lin_ way better than any of those.
> >
> I really don't like _Fire and Hemlock_. How do this & _Tam Lin_ compare?
I'll echo Irina. I'm not sure what basis you'd like me to use for
comparison, so please briefly compare Fire and Hemlock vs Tam Lin so
that I can try to calibrate.
> > > Erase/Record/Play (16,000 words) by John M. Ford; Excellent, Very Low
> >
> > Have you read any Ford? I find his books to range from good to very
> > good. It seems like I often am missing things that would raise the
> > range from very good to excellent. I liked this short story.
Since you've indicated interest in Ford, here are my brief thoughts
about his other works that I've read:
+ His stories in the Liavek shared world books range from ok to very,
very good. (On balance, I also recommend all 5 books themselves,
too, despite being initially dubious whether I would like them.)
+ _The Dragon Waiting_. A good alternate (secret?) history / fantasy
novel, but I definitely felt clueless and/or confused much of the
time.
+ _Growing up Weightless_. A very good science fiction novel.
Sometimes described as a good Heinlein juvenile that Heinlein didn't
write. (Gentian in _Juniper, Gentian, and Rosemary_ thinks it is a
Heinlein book when she hears a quote from it.)
+ _The Last Hot Time_. A good fantasy novel.
+ _How Much for Just the Planet?_. A funny Trek novel whose humor
totally failed to amuse me.
+ _The Final Reflection_. A very interesting Trek novel.
Essentially, no characters from any of the TV series show up: It is
told from a Klingon point of view. I would expect it to be
interesting to people who don't care for any of the TV series, but I
know that Jo disagrees with that.
> > > Story of Your Life (20,000 words) by Ted Chiang; Near-Excellent, Low
> >
> > This is a terrific story.
> >
> These two, based on the reviews I've been reading here, I am going to be
> actively looking for. Neither of these authors is familiar to me, so
> I'm happy to add two more to my list.
If you hurry, it looks like you can still get "Hell is the Absence of
God" by Chiang for free from www.fictionwise.com; you can also find
"Understand" by Chiang at
http://www.infinityplus.co.uk/stories/under.htm
I liked the writing in Hell, but at the end, I was vaguely
disappointed. I like Understand a lot and would call it intellectual
fun. But I think Story is terrific, combining both intellectual fun
and a touching human story.
Kip Williams
> In article <3D9CC668...@cox.net>, Kip Williams <ki...@cox.net>
> wrote:
>
>>Also mentioned: The Daughter of Time, by Josephine Tey. An
>>interesting thing to read, and a good presentation of the arguments.
>>I'm generally sympathetic to these arguments myself, but I can hear
>>Tey stacking the deck sometimes.
>
> "Stacking the deck sometimes"? More like presenting a pinochle deck
> when she didn't realize she wasn't playing with a full deck.
That deck was stacked like a brick deck with no flying buttresses.
(Just remarking.)
--
--Kip (Williams) ...at members.cox.net/kipw
Beaver: "Oh, he didn't cheat a whole lot, just enough to win."
Gilbert: "That's all you got to cheat, just enough to win." ("Leave
it to Beaver")
Doug Faunt N6TQS +1-510-655-8604
> aRJay <aR...@escore.demon.co.uk> quoth:
> >In article <H3GqF...@world.std.com>, Priscilla H Ballou
> ><p...@shell01.TheWorld.com> writes
> >>aRJay <aR...@escore.demon.co.uk> quoth:
> >>>>We Didn't Mean to Go to Sea (Long) by Arthur Ransome; Excellent, Very
> >>>>Low
> >>>>
> >>>One of the Swallows and Amazons books, they generally concern the fun
> >>>and adventures of two or three groups of children during the summer
> >>>holidays while they are messing about in sailing boats. Most of the
> >>>series are set in the English Lake District. They are good reads in my
> >>>opinion.
> >>
> >>Nits, picking thereof: _Winter Holiday_ is not set in the summer. While
> >>many are, indeed, set in the Lake District, several are set in the Norfolk
> >>Broads.
> >>
> >True but I had placed mild weasel words.
>
> Yeah, they'd kinda faded into the background when I read.
>
> >From dodgy memory.
Pretty accurate
>
> >Lake District.
> > Swallows and Amazons, Swallowdale, Picts and Martyrs, Winter Holiday,
> >Pigeon Post.
>
> >Broads.
> > Coot Club, The Big Six.(?)
Yes.
>
> >Scottish Islands.
> > Great Northern.
>
Uig and Stornoway on Lewis. When we were staying there at Uig, one of the
regulars to the area swore he could point out every geographical
feature in the book. The Scottish TARS are less dogmatic.
> Huh. Been too long since I read that. I hadn't remembered that any were
> set in the Scottish islands.
>
>
> >Harwich and North Sea.
> > We Didn't Mean to got to Sea.
>
> Starts off in the Broads, doesn't it? It's been a long time, though, and
> I'm not really good at English geography.
Not really. Starts off at Pin Mill on the Orwell. The Broads are
further north. This is where the Swallows and Jack Aubrey crossed
paths.
>
> >East Coast (Walton on the Naze area I think)
The Walton backwaters, exactly.
> > Secret Water.
> >?
The Channel and the Caribbean (or a boat on the Broads, if you take
the unpublished bits into account).
> > Peter Duck
>
> Priscilla, still waiting for a response to her karabadangbaraka
> --
If you insist, akarabgnadabarak.
73, doug
Who has sailed GOBLIN (NANCY BLACKETT) on the Solent and up the
Beaulieu. And been a passenger in AMAZON (MAVIS). And had breakfast
with the Ship's Baby.
Richard Horton
<mike....@electronictiger.com> wrote:
>On Fri, 04 Oct 2002 02:58:48 GMT, Richard Horton
><rrho...@prodigy.net> typed
>
>>On Thu, 03 Oct 2002 14:06:35 GMT, Ailsa Ek <ail...@mac.com> wrote:
>
>>>We Didn't Mean to Go to Sea (Long) by Arthur Ransome; Excellent, Very
>>>Low
>>>
>>Well-regarded English kids' books in roughly the Enid Wosshername
>>category.
>
>I can't place the woman, but, since Ransome to a great extent seems to
>have invented the "holiday stories" category (according to a couple of
>bios), one might well place her work in the "Ransome category".
As someone else mentioned, the woman turns out to be Enid Blyton.
I should make clear that I am not very familiar with Blyton or
Ransome. If Ransome predated Blyton (I had thought, actually, that
they were roughly contemporaries), sure, go ahead and call Blyton a
pale imitation of Ransome.
And, yes, from everything I've heard, Ransome is far superior to
Blyton, not that that would be too difficult based on the one Blyton
book I did read.
--
Rich Horton | Stable Email: mailto://richard...@sff.net
Home Page: http://www.sff.net/people/richard.horton
Also visit SF Site (http://www.sfsite.com) and Tangent Online (http://www.tangentonline.com)
Doug Faunt N6TQS +1-510-655-8604
> On Fri, 04 Oct 2002 15:54:23 GMT, mike weber
> <mike....@electronictiger.com> wrote:
>
> >On Fri, 04 Oct 2002 02:58:48 GMT, Richard Horton
> ><rrho...@prodigy.net> typed
> >
> >>On Thu, 03 Oct 2002 14:06:35 GMT, Ailsa Ek <ail...@mac.com> wrote:
> >
> >>>We Didn't Mean to Go to Sea (Long) by Arthur Ransome; Excellent, Very
> >>>Low
> >>>
> >>Well-regarded English kids' books in roughly the Enid Wosshername
> >>category.
> >
> >I can't place the woman, but, since Ransome to a great extent seems to
> >have invented the "holiday stories" category (according to a couple of
> >bios), one might well place her work in the "Ransome category".
>
> As someone else mentioned, the woman turns out to be Enid Blyton.
>
> I should make clear that I am not very familiar with Blyton or
> Ransome. If Ransome predated Blyton (I had thought, actually, that
> they were roughly contemporaries), sure, go ahead and call Blyton a
> pale imitation of Ransome.
>
Enid Blyton wrote her first book in 1937. S&A was written in 1930 and
the 7th of the S&A books, the superb -We Didn't Mean To Go To Sea- was
published in 1937, and Ransome had been a success for a number of
years.
73, doug
Arthur D. Hlavaty
My favorite Ford book is _The Scholars of Night_, which may not be any
more science-fictional than Ian Fleming or Tom Clancy, but has all
sorts of good stuff in it.
--
Arthur D.Hlavaty hla...@panix.com
Church of the SuperGenius in Wile E. we trust
E-zine available on request
David Goldfarb
Jo Walton <blu...@vif.com> wrote:
>Well they *really* hate me. I've given up using them because despite my
>ranking the one I read at the lowest possible rank, they keep on
>insisting that I'd just love more Neil Gaiman's Sandman, and other comic
>books.
Well you know, Jo, I think that you *would* love Sandman if only you
could read it. We've been around on that topic and I've given up on
it, but that's exactly why a bunch of people have proselytized you on
the subject: because we know you're Missing Out.
--
David Goldfarb <*>|"Given enough time and the right audience,
gold...@ocf.berkeley.edu | the darkest of secrets scum over into
| mere curiosities."
gold...@csua.berkeley.edu | -- Neil Gaiman, _Sandman_ #53
David Goldfarb
Kate Nepveu <kne...@steelypips.org> wrote:
>>Young Adult Novel (Long) by Daniel Manus Pinkwater; Excellent, Very Low
>
>I don't think I've read this one. Pinkwater is Weird in a way that I
>don't quite care for, as I like something approaching coherence in my
>plots. But very inventively so.
The novella entitled "Young Adult Novel" has a much more coherent plot
than many of Pinkwater's works. It's also my personal choice for
funniest single piece of fiction ever written. Definitely worth tracking
down. (If you can find the collection _Five Novels_, you also get
_Alan Mendelsohn, Boy From Mars_, which is pretty cool too.) Avoid
the sequels, for they are far inferior. (Luckily, _Five Novels_ does
not include them.)
--
David Goldfarb <*>|"I know you miss the Wainwrights, Bobby, but they
gold...@ocf.berkeley.edu | were weak and stupid people -- and that's why
| we have wolves and other large predators."
gold...@csua.berkeley.edu | -- The Far Side
Cally Soukup
> 73, doug
> Who has sailed GOBLIN (NANCY BLACKETT) on the Solent and up the
> Beaulieu. And been a passenger in AMAZON (MAVIS). And had breakfast
> with the Ship's Baby.
Envy. About all I can claim is I use a nasal product developed
(partly) by the Cabin Boy.
--
"I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend
to the death your right to say it." -- Beatrice Hall
Cally Soukup sou...@pobox.com
Cally Soukup
> On Friday 04 October 2002 21:26 Ailsa Ek wrote:
>> I really don't like _Fire and Hemlock_.
> Why not? Knowing that would make it easier to compare it to _Tam Lin_,
> because there are marked similarities and differences (more differences
> than similarities, though).
> Don't you like Diana Wynne Jones in general at all, or is it just that
> book?
> I love both, and _Fire and Hemlock_ is perhaps my favourite of the two;
> I thought we'd be more similar :-)
Unlike Ailsa, I really like _Fire and Hemlock_ -- but I can't hold it
in my head. I understand it perfectly for about half an hour after
reading it, then it goes away again. Kind of like elfin gold. Very
strange behavior for a book, if you ask me.
It's about time I re-read it, I think.
David G. Bell
gold...@OCF.Berkeley.EDU "David Goldfarb" wrote:
> In article <slrnapod7e...@localhost.localdomain>,
> Jo Walton <blu...@vif.com> wrote:
> >Well they *really* hate me. I've given up using them because despite my
> >ranking the one I read at the lowest possible rank, they keep on
> >insisting that I'd just love more Neil Gaiman's Sandman, and other comic
> >books.
>
> Well you know, Jo, I think that you *would* love Sandman if only you
> could read it. We've been around on that topic and I've given up on
> it, but that's exactly why a bunch of people have proselytized you on
> the subject: because we know you're Missing Out.
Comics are a different representation of the story to a book, or a
movie, or a live storyteller, and even at the most basic level there are
conventions on the way the little bits of text are presented.
If you don't get those cues it makes reading comics difficult.
I can think of one example of the problem in a conventional book. There
was a paperback British edition of "The Day of the Dolphin" published in
the Seventies which had _no quotation marks_. I don't know why, and if
you read carefully you could see where they should be. There were all
the proper word structures, just no ".
I wonder if there was some almighty balls-up in the type-setting
process.
Anyway, I can see why some people find comics baffling. They're reading
something which doesn't have quote-marks.
Priscilla Ballou
Oh! Oh! Oh!
Words fail me.
Priscilla
--
"As you get older, physical deterioration is offset by a larger world view
and a deeper sense of gratitude." Diane Keaton
Doug Faunt N6TQS +1-510-655-8604
> In article <mfrit0h...@panix3.panix.com>,
> Doug Faunt N6TQS +1-510-655-8604 <fa...@panix.com> wrote:
>
> > Priscilla H Ballou <p...@shell01.TheWorld.com> writes:
>
> > > Priscilla, still waiting for a response to her karabadangbaraka
> > > --
> > If you insist, akarabgnadabarak.
> >
> > 73, doug
> >
> > Who has sailed GOBLIN (NANCY BLACKETT) on the Solent and up the
> > Beaulieu. And been a passenger in AMAZON (MAVIS). And had breakfast
> > with the Ship's Baby.
>
> Oh! Oh! Oh!
>
> Words fail me.
>
> Priscilla
You too, can join the Arthur Ransome Society and the Nancy Blackett
Trust.
http://www.arthur-ransome.org/ar/
The AGM next year is at Pin Mill on the Orwell, and the Literary
Weekend will be in Greenwich.
73, doug
aRJay
>aRJay <aR...@escore.demon.co.uk> quoth:
>>In article <H3GqF...@world.std.com>, Priscilla H Ballou
>><p...@shell01.TheWorld.com> writes
>>>aRJay <aR...@escore.demon.co.uk> quoth:
>>>>>We Didn't Mean to Go to Sea (Long) by Arthur Ransome; Excellent, Very
>>>>>Low
>>>>>
>>>>One of the Swallows and Amazons books, they generally concern the fun
>>>>and adventures of two or three groups of children during the summer
>>>>holidays while they are messing about in sailing boats. Most of the
>>>>series are set in the English Lake District. They are good reads in my
>>>>opinion.
>>>
>>>Nits, picking thereof: _Winter Holiday_ is not set in the summer. While
>>>many are, indeed, set in the Lake District, several are set in the Norfolk
>>>Broads.
>>>
>>True but I had placed mild weasel words.
>
>Yeah, they'd kinda faded into the background when I read.
>
>>From dodgy memory.
>
>>Lake District.
>> Swallows and Amazons, Swallowdale, Picts and Martyrs, Winter Holiday,
>>Pigeon Post.
>
>>Broads.
>> Coot Club, The Big Six.(?)
>
>>Scottish Islands.
>> Great Northern.
>
>Huh. Been too long since I read that. I hadn't remembered that any were
>set in the Scottish islands.
>
Well I think that's where they were.
>>South China Seas.
>> Missie Lee. (SP?)
>
>>Harwich and North Sea.
>> We Didn't Mean to got to Sea.
>
>Starts off in the Broads, doesn't it? It's been a long time, though, and
>I'm not really good at English geography.
>
No as I remember they are in Harwich, or Felixstowe waiting for one of
the parents to arrive by ferry from Rotterdam? There is a very thick fog
and things go wrong. Harwich etc. are about 50 miles south of the
Broads.
>>East Coast (Walton on the Naze area I think)
>> Secret Water.
>>?
>> Peter Duck
>
>Priscilla, still waiting for a response to her karabadangbaraka
Unfortunately I can't remember the proper response.
Nancy Lebovitz
Cally Soukup <sou...@pobox.com> wrote:
>Irina Rempt <ir...@valdyas.org> wrote in article <4616625.B...@calcifer.valdyas.org>:
>> On Friday 04 October 2002 21:26 Ailsa Ek wrote:
>
>>> I really don't like _Fire and Hemlock_.
>
>> Why not? Knowing that would make it easier to compare it to _Tam Lin_,
>> because there are marked similarities and differences (more differences
>> than similarities, though).
>
>> Don't you like Diana Wynne Jones in general at all, or is it just that
>> book?
>
>> I love both, and _Fire and Hemlock_ is perhaps my favourite of the two;
>> I thought we'd be more similar :-)
>
>Unlike Ailsa, I really like _Fire and Hemlock_ -- but I can't hold it
>in my head. I understand it perfectly for about half an hour after
>reading it, then it goes away again. Kind of like elfin gold. Very
>strange behavior for a book, if you ask me.
>
>It's about time I re-read it, I think.
I like a lot of Dianna Wynne Jones' books, but I usually find the endings
incoherent. _Fire and Hemlock_ is definitely in that category.
IIRC, either DWJ or one of her characters mentions being able to understand
extremely complex plots--as long as she's written them herself.
--
Nancy Lebovitz na...@netaxs.com www.nancybuttons.com 100 new slogans
I want to move to theory. Everything works in theory.
Jo Walton
> In article <slrnapod7e...@localhost.localdomain>,
> Jo Walton <blu...@vif.com> wrote:
>>Well they *really* hate me. I've given up using them because despite my
>>ranking the one I read at the lowest possible rank, they keep on
>>insisting that I'd just love more Neil Gaiman's Sandman, and other comic
>>books.
>
> Well you know, Jo, I think that you *would* love Sandman if only you
> could read it. We've been around on that topic and I've given up on
> it, but that's exactly why a bunch of people have proselytized you on
> the subject: because we know you're Missing Out.
With human people, usually, they will stop going on about something if
you tell them you tried part of it and hated it. Computer programs,
well, maybe that's a level of sophistication we'd have reached by now if
we hadn't gone the stupid GUI route instead.
I think AlexLit would be a whole lot more useful if you could constrain
the categories so that it won't recommend to you things that you would
like if they were in a different medium.
--
Jo I kissed a kif at Kefk blu...@vif.com
THE KING'S PEACE paperback available now from Tor Books!
THE KING'S NAME hardback still available
THE PRIZE IN THE GAME coming in November http://www.bluejo.demon.co.uk
mike weber
<fa...@panix.com> typed
>-Coots In the North and Other Stories- is a collection of fragments of
> an unfinished S&A book called "Coots in the North" for lack of a
> better title (Ransome didn't have a title, apparently), and some of
> Ransome's short stories. CITN is a good beginning, and I'm very
> sorry Ransome didn't finish it. It would have been interesting to
> see how the working class Norfolk boys interact with the other, all
> middle class, children.
>
According to at least one biography, there was at least one finished
novel that he didn't submit because his wife told him it wasn't good
enough, or words to that effect.
--
=============================================================
"They put manure in his well and they made him talk to lawyers!"
-- Cat Ballou
mike weber -- <mike....@electronictiger.com>
Book Reviews & More -- http://electronictiger.com
mike weber
>Unlike Ailsa, I really like _Fire and Hemlock_ -- but I can't hold it
>in my head. I understand it perfectly for about half an hour after
>reading it, then it goes away again. Kind of like elfin gold. Very
>strange behavior for a book, if you ask me.
>
Ditto.
>It's about time I re-read it, I think.
Ditto Ditto.
mike weber
("David G. Bell") typed
>Comics are a different representation of the story to a book, or a
>movie, or a live storyteller, and even at the most basic level there are
>conventions on the way the little bits of text are presented.
>
>If you don't get those cues it makes reading comics difficult.
>
My mother, MA in Literature, PhD in some sort of composite study i
still don't quite comprehend, is virtuallyunable to read comics at any
level of technical sophistication much beyond "Peanuts".
mike weber
Lebovitz) typed
>I like a lot of Dianna Wynne Jones' books, but I usually find the endings
>incoherent. _Fire and Hemlock_ is definitely in that category.
>
How familiar are you with the original songs about Tam Lin and Thomas
the Rhymer?
mike weber
<p...@shell01.TheWorld.com> typed
>aRJay <aR...@escore.demon.co.uk> quoth:
>>>We Didn't Mean to Go to Sea (Long) by Arthur Ransome; Excellent, Very
>>>Low
>>>
>>One of the Swallows and Amazons books, they generally concern the fun
>>and adventures of two or three groups of children during the summer
>>holidays while they are messing about in sailing boats. Most of the
>>series are set in the English Lake District. They are good reads in my
>>opinion.
>
>Nits, picking thereof: _Winter Holiday_ is not set in the summer. While
>many are, indeed, set in the Lake District, several are set in the Norfolk
>Broads.
>
And two are "apocrypha" and the one i'd most like to see filmed ("We
Didn't Mean to Go to Sea", which started this subthread) is set mostly
in the middle of the North Sea and/or Holland.
>
>P.S. Karabadangbaraka
Akarabangdabarak.
mike weber
<p...@shell01.TheWorld.com> typed
>aRJay <aR...@escore.demon.co.uk> quoth:
>>Harwich and North Sea.
>> We Didn't Mean to got to Sea.
>
>Starts off in the Broads, doesn't it? It's been a long time, though, and
>I'm not really good at English geography.
Nope, they're staying at a boarding house (i assume) in Harwich.
(according to ne bio of Ransome i read, Alma Cottage didn't serve a
dinner of peas soup and mushroom omellette, but after "WDMtGtS" came
out, so many peaople asked for it that they began to.)
>Priscilla, still waiting for a response to her karabadangbaraka
again: Akarabangdabarak
Joel Rosenberg
> On Fri, 4 Oct 2002 21:37:45 GMT, Priscilla H Ballou
> <p...@shell01.TheWorld.com> typed
>
>>aRJay <aR...@escore.demon.co.uk> quoth:
>
>>>Harwich and North Sea.
>>> We Didn't Mean to got to Sea.
>>
>>Starts off in the Broads, doesn't it? It's been a long time, though, and
>>I'm not really good at English geography.
>
> Nope, they're staying at a boarding house (i assume) in Harwich.
> (according to ne bio of Ransome i read, Alma Cottage didn't serve a
> dinner of peas soup and mushroom omellette, but after "WDMtGtS" came
> out, so many peaople asked for it that they began to.)
>
>>Priscilla, still waiting for a response to her karabadangbaraka
>
> again: Akarabangdabarak
> --
Gesundheit.
--
Bagdikian's Observation:
Trying to be a first-rate reporter on the average American newspaper
is like trying to play Bach's "St. Matthew Passion" on a ukelele.
------------------------------------------------------------
http://islamthereligionofpeace.blogspot.com
mike weber
("David G. Bell") typed
>I'm not sure what to make of Peter Duck and Missee Lee.
Apocrypha.
They are obviously tales told by the kids themselves.
mike weber
<lmac...@garcia.efn.org> typed
>In rec.arts.sf.fandom, mike weber <mike....@electronictiger.com> wrote:
>>I can't place the woman, but, since Ransome to a great extent seems to
>>have invented the "holiday stories" category (according to a couple of
>>bios), one might well place her work in the "Ransome category".
>
>... right next to "The Ransome of Red Chief"
>
Bad Man.
Ailsa Ek
<aR...@escore.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >Wasp (Long) by Eric Frank Russell; Near-Excellent, Medium
> >
> Science Fiction about a volunteer from earth who is dropped on one of
> the worlds controlled by Sirius to become a one man resistance movement
> during an interstellar war. Some of the tricks are apparently based on
> real ones that Russell and others were putting forward to keep the Axis
> powers entertained during the war whilst the allies were getting up to
> something else.
> The title comes from an example given to the protagonist of how
> something small (a wasp) can destroy something huge (a car full of
> people). Good fun.
From eveything everyone's said about this one, I'll definitely be
looking for this. In fact, this thread is going a good ways to renewing
my faith in Alexlit.
--
What can you do with your days but work and hope, Ailsa C. Ek
Let your dreams bind your work to your play? ail...@mac.com
What can you do with every moment of your life Sharon, MA
But love 'til you love it away? - Bob Franke http://pages.ivillage.com/ailsaek
Ailsa Ek
> In article <mfrit0h...@panix3.panix.com>,
> Doug Faunt N6TQS +1-510-655-8604 <fa...@panix.com> wrote:
> > Priscilla H Ballou <p...@shell01.TheWorld.com> writes:
>
> > > Priscilla, still waiting for a response to her karabadangbaraka
> > > --
> > If you insist, akarabgnadabarak.
> >
> > 73, doug
> >
> > Who has sailed GOBLIN (NANCY BLACKETT) on the Solent and up the
> > Beaulieu. And been a passenger in AMAZON (MAVIS). And had breakfast
> > with the Ship's Baby.
>
> Oh! Oh! Oh!
>
> Words fail me.
>
WDMtGtS did must be worth reading. Now the question is, do I start with
Swallows and Amazons, or a later book?
Ailsa Ek
Richard Horton <rrho...@prodigy.net> wrote:
> You could also try the alexlit newsgroup on SFF-Net. Adam used to
> post there regularly, as I recall.
>
One thing I love about the net - finding out things about my spouse I
hadn't known before from someone I didn't know knew him. :)
> And really, talk about books on rasfw, you'll get good conversation.
> Talk about politics -- maybe not!
>
Well, I'm giving it another go. I'm about to check in there to see what
I have wrought.
> Anyway I don't think Alexlit hates you -- by and large these are good
> recommendations.
So I am finding out. I am going to be adding my Alexlit list to my
shopping list RSN.
Rob Hansen
("David G. Bell") wrote:
>Comics are a different representation of the story to a book, or a
>movie, or a live storyteller, and even at the most basic level there are
>conventions on the way the little bits of text are presented.
>
>If you don't get those cues it makes reading comics difficult.
As a child, you pick this stuff up almost by osmosis and don't even
realize you're doing it. Trying to learn it as an adult is probably a
bit like trying to learn to ride a bike at the same point in your
life: you approach it with trepidation and uncertainty and have a good
chance of skinning your knees.
It wasn't until I read Scott McCloud's UNDERSTANDING COMICS that I
realized just how much the reader puts into interpreting them without
realizing we're doing so.
--
Rob Hansen
=============================================
Home Page: http://www.fiawol.demon.co.uk/rob/
RE-ELECT GORE IN 2004.
Rob Hansen
<hla...@panix.com> wrote:
>My favorite Ford book is _The Scholars of Night_, which may not be any
>more science-fictional than Ian Fleming or Tom Clancy, but has all
>sorts of good stuff in it.
Same here. It's also the only book by I've ever read by a US author in
which the British characters are note-perfect. I *always* wince at
some point in every book where an American author has British
charcaters - as I am periodically in the Turtledove I'm currently
reading - but not this one.
Ailsa Ek
> In article <0tqppu0rqhcajqoie...@news.earthlink.net>,
> Kate Nepveu <kne...@steelypips.org> wrote:
> >>Young Adult Novel (Long) by Daniel Manus Pinkwater; Excellent, Very Low
> >
> >I don't think I've read this one. Pinkwater is Weird in a way that I
> >don't quite care for, as I like something approaching coherence in my
> >plots. But very inventively so.
>
> The novella entitled "Young Adult Novel" has a much more coherent plot
> than many of Pinkwater's works. It's also my personal choice for
> funniest single piece of fiction ever written. Definitely worth tracking
> down. (If you can find the collection _Five Novels_, you also get
> _Alan Mendelsohn, Boy From Mars_, which is pretty cool too.) Avoid
> the sequels, for they are far inferior. (Luckily, _Five Novels_ does
> not include them.)
I'd never heard of Pinkwater (although I had noticed _Alan Mendelson_ in
the bookstore), but I think I'll be looking out for him, and probably
handing the books on to Kathy afterwards.
Ailsa Ek
<p...@shell01.TheWorld.com> wrote:
> >Maybe SF/F:
>
> >The Daughter of Time (64,000 words) by Josephine Tey; Near-Excellent,
> >High
>
> Nothing SF/F-ish about it to my mind. Tey's usual detective is in
> hospital and investigates Richard III while laid up. Tries to determine
> his innocence. Good book. I love all of Tey's stuff, particularly _Miss
> Pym Disposes_. Good character-based English mystery writer.
>
That explains it. I classified her as "Maybe SF" because I remembered
her name on my mom's bookshelves. Mom reads SF, mysteries, and
regencies (yes, I have got her going to cons now).
Have you read any other Tey? Is she good? I'm always in the market for
new mystery writers too.
Ailsa Ek
> Nothing SF/F-ish about it to my mind. Tey's usual detective is in
> hospital and investigates Richard III while laid up. Tries to determine
> his innocence. Good book. I love all of Tey's stuff, particularly _Miss
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Pym Disposes_. Good character-based English mystery writer.
>
GHAAA! Ignore my last post while I crawl off & commit hari kari from
sheep embarassment! Stupid stupid STUPID ailsa-creature!
Priscilla Ballou
Ailsa Ek <ail...@mac.com> wrote:
> In article <vze23t8n-99BEF8...@news.bellatlantic.net>,
> Priscilla Ballou <vze2...@verizon.net> wrote:
> > In article <mfrit0h...@panix3.panix.com>,
> > Doug Faunt N6TQS +1-510-655-8604 <fa...@panix.com> wrote:
> > > Priscilla H Ballou <p...@shell01.TheWorld.com> writes:
> >
> > > > Priscilla, still waiting for a response to her karabadangbaraka
> > > > --
> > > If you insist, akarabgnadabarak.
> > >
> > > 73, doug
> > >
> > > Who has sailed GOBLIN (NANCY BLACKETT) on the Solent and up the
> > > Beaulieu. And been a passenger in AMAZON (MAVIS). And had breakfast
> > > with the Ship's Baby.
> >
> > Oh! Oh! Oh!
> >
> > Words fail me.
> >
> Y'know, anything that inspires the kind of conversation my question on
> WDMtGtS did must be worth reading. Now the question is, do I start with
> Swallows and Amazons, or a later book?
I'd say do them in order: _Swallows & Amazons_, _Swallowdale_, oops...
what *is* the canonical order?
Ailsa Ek
<ad...@panix.com> wrote:
> na...@unix1.netaxs.com (Nancy Lebovitz) writes:
>
> > The term in parenthesis is presumably the length of the book, but
> > what do the two after the title refer to?
>
> Projected rating and confidence. So, for example, they have very
> little confidence that she'll like Mockingbird, which makes me wonder
> why they're recommending it at all.
>
I told them to be daring, and also, I haven't rated enough books yet for
them to be terribly confident about what I'll like.
> > >Mockingbird (Long) by Sean Stewart; Excellent, Very Low
> >
> > Definitely sf--a woman inherits a bunch of small annoying gods
> > from her mother, and needs to figure out how to deal with them.
> > I recommend it.
>
> Haven't read it, but I did like Galveston, by the same author--magic
> comes into the world and wreaks havoc, and people have to come to an
> accommodation with it.
>
I think I'll look for both. These are recent enough they might be in
the library, right?
Ailsa Ek
wrote:
[enough to convince me snipped]
> I think even when I was a child they were comfort reads, I knew what I
> was getting, there isn't much strangeness there. (And the strangeness
> there was came from the theatrical world many of them touch on, which
> did fascinate me. I don't know how many times I read the _Gemma_ books,
> but I could tell you the plots in detail even now.) But they're well
> done examples of what they are.
OK, these too. I had been thinking of skipping these, but I'm sold.
Ailsa Ek
<ir...@valdyas.org> wrote:
> On Thursday 03 October 2002 20:03 Nancy Lebovitz wrote:
> > In article <ailsaek-06DC65...@netnews.attbi.com>,
> > Ailsa Ek <ail...@mac.com> wrote:
>
> >>The Changeover (Long) by Margaret Mahy; Excellent, Medium
> >
> > Liked it moderately. IIRC, it's sf. (Alien in high school?)
>
> No, girl initiated into witchcraft by (male) classmate's mother and
> grandmother, in order to rescue her little brother from warlock. I'd
> call it YA urban fantasy. I bought it in my twenties and still like it.
>
Fun! I predict this one disappearing into Kathy's room never to return
(hopefully _after_ I've finished it).
Ailsa Ek
> wrote:
> > Adam & I got talking about Alexlit recommendations on the train last
> > night, and I mentioned that I'd stopped going there because so many of
> > the books on my list were ones I knew nothing about at all, and had a
> > vague feeling weren't science fiction, and it occurred to me that there
> > are all these well-read people with opinions here, and maybe someone
> > could tell me something about some of these strange titles and authors.
>
> Well they *really* hate me. I've given up using them because despite my
> ranking the one I read at the lowest possible rank, they keep on
> insisting that I'd just love more Neil Gaiman's Sandman, and other comic
> books.
>
sympathize, though, It took them forever to stop recommending Heinlein
to me, despite my opinions of IWFNE, TEFL, SIaSL, Friday, Job....
> > The Changeover (Long) by Margaret Mahy; Excellent, Medium
>
> This is a children's book by a New Zealand author. I haven't read it,
> but Sasha has read others of hers and really liked them. It's probably
> SF.
>
It sounds like Sasha & I might have simliar tastes. Has he read Pride
of Chanur? I want to like Cherryh, but most of her stuff just doesn't
work for me.
> > Mockingbird (Long) by Sean Stewart; Excellent, Very Low
>
> This is fantasy, and it's excellent. It's set in contemporary Texas. I
> really think you'd like it. "If every story is a journey, then this is
> the story of the longest trip I ever took, from being a daughter to
> having one."
>
Check. And I generally find Voodoo (the real stuff) fascinating, too.
> I'd recommend _Ballet Shoes_, _Thursday's Child_,
> _Caldicott Place_ or the _Gemma_ series. But I suspect you have to be
> eight years old to really enjoy this sort of book, at least the first
> time.
>
I think I'll be checking the library as soon as I get my current fines
paid.
> > Erase/Record/Play (16,000 words) by John M. Ford; Excellent, Very Low
>
> This is an excellent short story in _Starlight One_. Let me add my
> unreserved recommendation to Hypatia's.
>
_Starlight One_ is a short story anthology?
> > Espedair Street (102,000 words) by Iain Banks; Excellent, Low
>
> This is a mainstream novel about a rock musician living in a converted
> chapel in Glasgow. I enjoyed it a lot more than I thought I would. It's
> very well written, and unlike most Banks there are no icky bits at all.
>
Most Banks... icky bits. I'll keep that in mind too. Icky like rapes
and disembowellments or icky like bad politics (I dropped the Uplift
series for the latter)?
> > Story of Your Life (20,000 words) by Ted Chiang; Near-Excellent, Low
>
> This is another short story in _Starlight Two_, which again I'll
> recommend unreservedly. I think you'd love it. It's brilliant.
>
See question about _Starlight One_.
> > Wasp (Long) by Eric Frank Russell; Near-Excellent, Medium
>
> This is SF. If you like clever golden age SF and haven't read it
> already, then both _Wasp_ and _Next of Kin_/_The Space Willies_ are a
> treat.
>
Among my favorite things. I just finished Clement's _Needle_ and
_Iceworld_ and enjoyed them immensely.
> (Things like _Mockingbird_ and _Espedair Street_ you read for the people
> and the places and the way they're written. Things like _Wasp_ you read
> for the plot. I like both sorts of thing, but I find it hard to
> understand what criteria the program is using to recommend both.)
>
Well, it's based on what other people rated high & low. Apparently
people who like and dislike the same things I do, like those books too.
> > The Long Run (Long) by Daniel Keys Moran; Excellent, Medium
>
> Fast moving, fast paced American SF, set in a very pulpy world that is
> irresistably charming. Moran himself appears to have alienated the
> publishing world, meaning his published novels are only available second
> hand and his new novels are being self-published. _The Long Run_
> contains a great wise-cracking thief hero, his telepathic dancing
> girlfriend, and a world dominated by French villains. If you read fast
> and don't think too hard, it's a great deal of fun. It would be a very
> good book to read when mildly ill, or when travelling.
>
This one, depressingly enough, is hard to find. After I asked about it,
I found out that Adam's been looking for it just about forever. Pity,
too, cos I like having a stash of books that don't require too much
Brain and are still fun. Too many of my Very Little Brain books are
ones I can stomach reading only once every three or four years.
> > Sorry to bother people with book questions, but, well, you guys I know,
> > rasfw people I don't necessarily, and I haven't the stamina to wade
> > through it all to ask anything there.
>
> Yeah, well, that's what's killing rasfw. I can't say anything, I'm not
> reading it either, even though I would rather talk about books than
> anything.
I went back there, although I'm amassing an impressive killfile already.
Protocols of the Elders of Zion. Sheesh.
Ailsa Ek
> In article <slrnapod7e...@localhost.localdomain>,
> Jo Walton <blu...@vif.com> wrote:
> >ranking the one I read at the lowest possible rank, they keep on
> >insisting that I'd just love more Neil Gaiman's Sandman, and other comic
> >books.
>
> could read it. We've been around on that topic and I've given up on
> it, but that's exactly why a bunch of people have proselytized you on
> the subject: because we know you're Missing Out.
Which really does sound much like "Well, I'm sure you'd like dating
[men/women] if you'd only try it." I liked Sandman too (overlooking all
the gratuitous ookiness), but cool as it is, it's not for everyone.
Captain Button
Ailsa Ek <ail...@mac.com> wrote:
>In article <slrnapod7e...@localhost.localdomain>,
>blu...@vif.com wrote:
>> In article <ailsaek-06DC65...@netnews.attbi.com>, Ailsa Ek
>> wrote:
[ snip ]
>> > Sorry to bother people with book questions, but, well, you guys I know,
>> > rasfw people I don't necessarily, and I haven't the stamina to wade
>> > through it all to ask anything there.
>>
>> Yeah, well, that's what's killing rasfw. I can't say anything, I'm not
>> reading it either, even though I would rather talk about books than
>> anything.
>
>I went back there, although I'm amassing an impressive killfile already.
>Protocols of the Elders of Zion. Sheesh.
Umm, the PotEoZ has only come up because a troll [1] posted it or bits of
it for the usual trollish motives. The resulting thread is just the usual
people telling him to piss off and others noting the essential BS nature
and origins of PoTEoZ. Plus the ineveitable thread drift.
[1] And not even a troll who is a regular, AFAIK.
--
"We have to go forth and crush every world view that doesn't believe in
tolerance and free speech," - David Brin
Captain Button - but...@io.com
Ailsa Ek
> In article <ailsaek-0BF5E1...@netnews.attbi.com>,
> Ailsa Ek <ail...@mac.com> wrote:
[rasfw]
> >I went back there, although I'm amassing an impressive killfile already.
> >
> >Protocols of the Elders of Zion. Sheesh.
>
> Umm, the PotEoZ has only come up because a troll [1] posted it or bits of
> it for the usual trollish motives. The resulting thread is just the
> usual
> people telling him to piss off and others noting the essential BS nature
> and origins of PoTEoZ. Plus the ineveitable thread drift.
>
> [1] And not even a troll who is a regular, AFAIK.
Sorry, I implied that this was something the regulars discuss, which I
should not have. But there was an impressive amount of undergrowth to
be cleared out to get to the interesting posts, and more trolls that I'm
used to.
David Bilek
>blu...@vif.com wrote:
>
>> > Espedair Street (102,000 words) by Iain Banks; Excellent, Low
>>
>> This is a mainstream novel about a rock musician living in a converted
>> chapel in Glasgow. I enjoyed it a lot more than I thought I would. It's
>> very well written, and unlike most Banks there are no icky bits at all.
>>
>Most Banks... icky bits. I'll keep that in mind too. Icky like rapes
>and disembowellments or icky like bad politics (I dropped the Uplift
>series for the latter)?
>
Banks is one of my favorite authors (_Use of Weapons_ is one of my top
5 novels) but he occasionally writes scenes that people find
nauseating. Disturbing gross nauseating, not bad politics nauseating.
There is a bit in _The Wasp Factory_ that is the only scene in any
novel, ever, to gross me out. I have a strong stomach.
>> > Story of Your Life (20,000 words) by Ted Chiang; Near-Excellent, Low
>>
>> This is another short story in _Starlight Two_, which again I'll
>> recommend unreservedly. I think you'd love it. It's brilliant.
>>
>See question about _Starlight One_.
>
_Starlight_, _Starlight 2_, and _Starlight 3_ are short story
anthologies edited by some guy named Nielsen Hayden. Or something
like that.
>> > The Long Run (Long) by Daniel Keys Moran; Excellent, Medium
>>
>> Fast moving, fast paced American SF, set in a very pulpy world that is
>> irresistably charming. Moran himself appears to have alienated the
>> publishing world, meaning his published novels are only available second
>> hand and his new novels are being self-published. _The Long Run_
>> contains a great wise-cracking thief hero, his telepathic dancing
>> girlfriend, and a world dominated by French villains. If you read fast
>> and don't think too hard, it's a great deal of fun. It would be a very
>> good book to read when mildly ill, or when travelling.
>>
>This one, depressingly enough, is hard to find. After I asked about it,
>I found out that Adam's been looking for it just about forever.
In the Internet age, there is almost no such thing as a hard to find
(recent) book. Expensive, sometimes, but available. I'm so immersed
in it that sometimes it is hard to remember that other people don't
realize how powerful a tool it can be for almost any situation.
Hell, _The Long Run_ is even in print!
You can get a brand new trade paperback copy from Quietvision for
$19.99. If you don't care about newness, ABEbooks.com lists *41*
copies, from $10.00.
Tell Adam his long search is over.
-David
Doug Faunt N6TQS +1-510-655-8604
> On Fri, 4 Oct 2002 21:37:45 GMT, Priscilla H Ballou
> <p...@shell01.TheWorld.com> typed
>
> >aRJay <aR...@escore.demon.co.uk> quoth:
>
> >>Harwich and North Sea.
> >> We Didn't Mean to got to Sea.
> >
> >Starts off in the Broads, doesn't it? It's been a long time, though, and
> >I'm not really good at English geography.
>
> Nope, they're staying at a boarding house (i assume) in Harwich.
Pin Mill, in fact. It's a good bike ride down the road along the
southwest side of the Orwell from Ipswich. Harwich is the other side
of the Stour. And they were anchored above Felixstowe, but on that
side of the Orwell, when Jim left them.
> (according to ne bio of Ransome i read, Alma Cottage didn't serve a
> dinner of peas soup and mushroom omellette, but after "WDMtGtS" came
> out, so many peaople asked for it that they began to.)
Unfortunately, Alma Cottage is a private home currently, but the "Butt
and Oyster" is still a pub.
>
> >Priscilla, still waiting for a response to her karabadangbaraka
>
> again: Akarabangdabarak
> --
Nope, it's akarabgnadabarak (unless your name is Daisy, in which case
it's akarabgandabarak).
The TARS AGM is going to be around there next year, over the May Bank
Holiday weekend, and I've put in a request to for a trip to Broke Farm
and/or Broke Hall.
73, doug
Doug Faunt N6TQS +1-510-655-8604
> On Fri, 04 Oct 2002 19:20:40 +0100 (BST), db...@zhochaka.demon.co.uk
> ("David G. Bell") typed
>
>
> >I'm not sure what to make of Peter Duck and Missee Lee.
>
> Apocrypha.
>
> They are obviously tales told by the kids themselves.
> --
The unpublished bits of Peter Duck make this clear, and some editions
have more hints then others, thanks to Evgenia. The S&A's and Captain
Flint were moored up on the Broads in a wherry over the Christmas
holidays after S&A, and the original title was -Their Own Story-.
I'm looking at G. Wayne Hammond's -Arthur Ransome, A Bibliography-,
and he also says (of particular interest to Kip) that there was "A
musical setting without lyrics, -Peter Duck: Album for Pianoforte: An
Adventure in Music with the Swallows and Amazons- by John Franklin,
was published by Lengwick, London in 1946."
And as an aside, Wayne Hammond also did a bibliography of Tolkein and
is well known to at least a couple of Tolkein fans who've posted in
this newsgroup.
73, doug
Ailsa Ek
<ir...@valdyas.org> wrote:
> On Friday 04 October 2002 21:26 Ailsa Ek wrote:
>
> > I really don't like _Fire and Hemlock_.
>
> Why not? Knowing that would make it easier to compare it to _Tam Lin_,
> because there are marked similarities and differences (more differences
> than similarities, though).
>
> Don't you like Diana Wynne Jones in general at all, or is it just that
> book?
>
It's almost just that one book. I didn't like _Warlock at the Wheel_
much, and I found _Time of the Ghost_ unfinishable, but the various
Chrestomanci books, the first three Dalemarch books, _Eight Daysd of
Luke_, _The Power of Three_, _Dogsbody_, etc. etc. are among my favorite
books.
> I love both, and _Fire and Hemlock_ is perhaps my favourite of the two;
> I thought we'd be more similar :-)
>
I can't quite explain why I didn't like it is the problem. I last
re-read it a couple of years ago (I couldn't read it just once, even if
I didn't liek it, cos I love DWJ's books usually and this was the first
thing I ever encountered by her that I didn't adore). The only thing I
can remember is that it felt kind of pointless, and that's probably not
very helpful. ISTR it was pretty OK up until the end and then
unravelled.
Doug Faunt N6TQS +1-510-655-8604
> In article <ailsaek-B75392...@netnews.attbi.com>,
> Ailsa Ek <ail...@mac.com> wrote:
>
> > In article <vze23t8n-99BEF8...@news.bellatlantic.net>,
> > Priscilla Ballou <vze2...@verizon.net> wrote:
> > > In article <mfrit0h...@panix3.panix.com>,
> > > Doug Faunt N6TQS +1-510-655-8604 <fa...@panix.com> wrote:
> > > > Priscilla H Ballou <p...@shell01.TheWorld.com> writes:
> > >
> > > > > Priscilla, still waiting for a response to her karabadangbaraka
> > > > > --
> > > > If you insist, akarabgnadabarak.
> > > >
> > > > 73, doug
> > > >
> > > > Who has sailed GOBLIN (NANCY BLACKETT) on the Solent and up the
> > > > Beaulieu. And been a passenger in AMAZON (MAVIS). And had breakfast
> > > > with the Ship's Baby.
> > >
> > > Oh! Oh! Oh!
> > >
> > > Words fail me.
> > >
> > Y'know, anything that inspires the kind of conversation my question on
> > WDMtGtS did must be worth reading. Now the question is, do I start with
> > Swallows and Amazons, or a later book?
>
> I'd say do them in order: _Swallows & Amazons_, _Swallowdale_, oops...
> what *is* the canonical order?
>
I'd say the same, but S&A is not among the best books. WH and WDMTGTS
stand alone very well.
This is taken from Christina Hardyment's -Arthur Ransome and Captain
Flint's Trunk-.
Ransome time:
Year 1:
Summer: Swallows and Amazons
Winter: story of Peter Duck
Year 2:
Summer: Swallowdale
Winter: Winter Holiday
Year 3:
Easter: Coot Club
Early summer: Pigeon Post
Midsummer: We Didn't Mean to Go to Sea
Late summer: The Big Six
Secret Water
Year 4:
Summer: The Picts and the Martyrs
Late summer: 'Coots in the North'
Winter: the story of Great Northern?
Note that Christina puts GN in the same category as PD and ML.
That's controversial, but doesn't affect the order.
73, doug
David Dyer-Bennet
> In article <anmn1m$1l61$1...@agate.berkeley.edu>,
> gold...@OCF.Berkeley.EDU (David Goldfarb) wrote:
> > In article <slrnapod7e...@localhost.localdomain>,
> > Jo Walton <blu...@vif.com> wrote:
> > >Well they *really* hate me. I've given up using them because despite my
> > >ranking the one I read at the lowest possible rank, they keep on
> > >insisting that I'd just love more Neil Gaiman's Sandman, and other comic
> > >books.
> >
> > Well you know, Jo, I think that you *would* love Sandman if only you
> > could read it. We've been around on that topic and I've given up on
> > it, but that's exactly why a bunch of people have proselytized you on
> > the subject: because we know you're Missing Out.
>
> Which really does sound much like "Well, I'm sure you'd like dating
> [men/women] if you'd only try it." I liked Sandman too (overlooking all
> the gratuitous ookiness), but cool as it is, it's not for everyone.
Do note David said "could", not "would". He's regretting that the
medium bars Jo enjoying it, not saying that she *would* enjoy it if
she gave it a try (which would be *particularly* dumb in response to a
message where Jo says she *has* read one Sandman comic, and didn't
like it).
--
David Dyer-Bennet, dd...@dd-b.net / http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/
John Dyer-Bennet 1915-2002 Memorial Site http://john.dyer-bennet.net
Dragaera mailing lists, see http://dragaera.info
David G. Bell
<ailsaek-B75392...@netnews.attbi.com>
ail...@mac.com "Ailsa Ek" wrote:
> In article <vze23t8n-99BEF8...@news.bellatlantic.net>,
> Priscilla Ballou <vze2...@verizon.net> wrote:
> > In article <mfrit0h...@panix3.panix.com>,
> > Doug Faunt N6TQS +1-510-655-8604 <fa...@panix.com> wrote:
> > > Priscilla H Ballou <p...@shell01.TheWorld.com> writes:
> >
> > > > Priscilla, still waiting for a response to her karabadangbaraka
> > > > --
> > > If you insist, akarabgnadabarak.
> > >
> > > 73, doug
> > >
> > > Who has sailed GOBLIN (NANCY BLACKETT) on the Solent and up the
> > > Beaulieu. And been a passenger in AMAZON (MAVIS). And had breakfast
> > > with the Ship's Baby.
> >
> > Oh! Oh! Oh!
> >
> > Words fail me.
> >
> Y'know, anything that inspires the kind of conversation my question on
> WDMtGtS did must be worth reading. Now the question is, do I start with
> Swallows and Amazons, or a later book?
There's a lot to be said for running through them in order, starting
with S&A, followed by Swallowdale and Winter Holiday. The last of these
introduces Dick and Dot, who might seem a little more familiar to us
RASFF types. :) They're also the lead characters in Coot Club and The
Big Six, and return to the Lake District in Picts & Martyrs and Pigeon
Post.
S&A has also been dramatised a few times, for TV and as a film. I think
the most recent film was made some time in the 70s, and does capture the
look of the place.
--
David G. Bell -- SF Fan, Filker, and Punslinger.
"Let me get this straight. You're the KGB's core AI, but you're afraid
of a copyright infringement lawsuit over your translator semiotics?"
From "Lobsters" by Charles Stross.
Kip Williams
> I'm looking at G. Wayne Hammond's -Arthur Ransome, A Bibliography-,
> and he also says (of particular interest to Kip) that there was "A
> musical setting without lyrics, -Peter Duck: Album for Pianoforte: An
> Adventure in Music with the Swallows and Amazons- by John Franklin,
> was published by Lengwick, London in 1946."
Now that I know about it, Fate will most likely roll it across my
path a time or two some day.
--
--Kip (Williams) ...at members.cox.net/kipw
Beaver: "Oh, he didn't cheat a whole lot, just enough to win."
Gilbert: "That's all you got to cheat, just enough to win." ("Leave
it to Beaver")
Nancy Lebovitz
Rob Hansen <r...@fiawol.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>On Sat, 05 Oct 2002 15:38:34 +0100 (BST), db...@zhochaka.demon.co.uk
>("David G. Bell") wrote:
>
>>Comics are a different representation of the story to a book, or a
>>movie, or a live storyteller, and even at the most basic level there are
>>conventions on the way the little bits of text are presented.
>>
>>If you don't get those cues it makes reading comics difficult.
>
>As a child, you pick this stuff up almost by osmosis and don't even
>realize you're doing it. Trying to learn it as an adult is probably a
>bit like trying to learn to ride a bike at the same point in your
>life: you approach it with trepidation and uncertainty and have a good
>chance of skinning your knees.
>
>It wasn't until I read Scott McCloud's UNDERSTANDING COMICS that I
>realized just how much the reader puts into interpreting them without
>realizing we're doing so.
I've thought of recommending _Understanding Comics_ to Jo, but, well,
_Understanding Comics_ is set up as a comic book, so it would as useful
as an elementary bike class that you have to cycle to.
--
Nancy Lebovitz na...@netaxs.com www.nancybuttons.com 100 new slogans
I want to move to theory. Everything works in theory.
Nancy Lebovitz
Ailsa Ek <ail...@mac.com> wrote:
>>
>I forget, graphic novels are a medium you just don't care for? I do
>sympathize, though, It took them forever to stop recommending Heinlein
>to me, despite my opinions of IWFNE, TEFL, SIaSL, Friday, Job....
Do I gather that alexlit doesn't let you list what you hate as well
as what you like? If so, that's a pity.
Um, you've probably been asked this already, but all you list are
late Heinlein (SIaSL is borderline). Did you try any of the juveniles?