getting published, getting reviewed here
Dan Goodman
news:45ac3713.03031...@posting.google.com:
> Thanks to everyone, this is very helpful. It seems like there was a
> mix of "it's possible" with "very unlikely." My biggest problem with
> finishing a book is that I've got too many other writing jobs right
> now. But I do know that I have 5000 words done that I'm very happy
> with. Is there anything I can do with that other than send it out cold
> turkey? On my non-fiction book I basically just sent out a book
> proposal and one chapter to about 100 publishers, are you saying that
> wouldn't work as well for fiction?
Not for someone without an established reputation. The editors/publishers
don't know that you can finish the book.
[followups set to rec.arts.sf.composition]
Dan Goodman
news:jswartzfeger-4E14...@news.west.cox.net:
> In article <Xns933E83C1E70...@209.98.13.60>,
> Heck, some established writers can't even sell their completed novels
> (Tanith Lee, IIRC).
>
The Internet Speculative Fiction Data Base shows three novels published in
2002.
Julia Jones
<dsg...@visi.com> writes
>Jay Swartzfeger <jswart...@cox.net> wrote in
>news:jswartzfeger-4E14...@news.west.cox.net:
>
>> In article <Xns933E83C1E70...@209.98.13.60>,
>> Dan Goodman <dsg...@visi.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Not for someone without an established reputation. The
>>> editors/publishers don't know that you can finish the book.
>>
>> Heck, some established writers can't even sell their completed novels
>> (Tanith Lee, IIRC).
>>
>The Internet Speculative Fiction Data Base shows three novels published in
>2002.
And she has several novels sitting in a cupboard that she can't sell.
And a selection of interesting stories about the perils of the
publishing business, such as one of her publishers dropping her because
a publisher handling her stuff in another country went out of
business...
She was a guest at Redemption a couple of weeks ago, so I got to hear
some of this stuff first-hand:-)
--
Julia Jones (fighting off the jet lag)
The suespammers.org mail server is located in California; do not send
unsolicited bulk e-mail or unsolicited commercial e-mail to my suespammers.org
address.
Dan Goodman
news:BciCu1KH...@jajones.demon.co.uk:
> In message <Xns933FBFCCFF1...@209.98.13.60>, Dan Goodman
> <dsg...@visi.com> writes
>>Jay Swartzfeger <jswart...@cox.net> wrote in
>>news:jswartzfeger-4E14...@news.west.cox.net:
>>
>>> In article <Xns933E83C1E70...@209.98.13.60>,
>>> Dan Goodman <dsg...@visi.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Not for someone without an established reputation. The
>>>> editors/publishers don't know that you can finish the book.
>>>
>>> Heck, some established writers can't even sell their completed
>>> novels (Tanith Lee, IIRC).
>>>
>>The Internet Speculative Fiction Data Base shows three novels
>>published in 2002.
>
> And she has several novels sitting in a cupboard that she can't sell.
What are the differences between the novels she can't sell, and the ones
she can?
Brenda W. Clough
>Julia Jones <jaj...@suespammers.org> wrote in
>news:BciCu1KH...@jajones.demon.co.uk:
>
>>In message <Xns933FBFCCFF1...@209.98.13.60>, Dan Goodman
>><dsg...@visi.com> writes
>>
>>>Jay Swartzfeger <jswart...@cox.net> wrote in
>>>news:jswartzfeger-4E14...@news.west.cox.net:
>>>
>>>>In article <Xns933E83C1E70...@209.98.13.60>,
>>>> Dan Goodman <dsg...@visi.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Not for someone without an established reputation. The
>>>>>editors/publishers don't know that you can finish the book.
>>>>>
>>>>Heck, some established writers can't even sell their completed
>>>>novels (Tanith Lee, IIRC).
>>>>
>>>The Internet Speculative Fiction Data Base shows three novels
>>>published in 2002.
>>>
>>And she has several novels sitting in a cupboard that she can't sell.
>>
>
>What are the differences between the novels she can't sell, and the ones
>she can?
>
I don't know, but I can guess. The unsellable works are not like her
books that are published by her current publisher. They push the
envelope for her -- they are mystery novels or historicals or Regency
romances. The editors may say they want innovation, but they really
only like what they know.
Brenda
--
---------
Brenda W. Clough
Read my novella "May Be Some Time"
Complete at http://www.fictionwise.com
My web page is at http://www.sff.net/people/Brenda/
Marilee J. Layman
And isn't it *wonderful* that Texas A&M is hosting the ISFDB so it's
back up again? I wrote them a thank-you email.
--
Marilee J. Layman
Handmade Bali Sterling Beads at Wholesale
http://www.basicbali.com
Dan Goodman
news:ibq77vk50vtns80lg...@4ax.com:
Yes, it is!
I'm told that Texas A&M has one of the best sf libraries in the US, so
it's a fairly natural fit.
Dan Goodman
> Weren't there other vocal midlist authors lately (last 10 years)
> complaining they couldn't sell their work? For some reason only Tanith
> Lee and Spider Robinson are coming to mind...
>
As I recall, Robinson's problem was reduced demand for more of the same --
that is, for more Callahan stories. I can immediately think of two reasons
(other than "the editors are nuts, and don't realize that another Callahan
novel would outsell all the Star Trek and Star Wars novels").
1) The later the story, the more it depends on references to previous
stories. Which is great for people who are devoted to Callahan stories,
but makes it harder for newcomers to get hooked.
2) To me, the recent stories seem to me to have a 1970s feel. This may not
be attractive to younger readers.
Brian M. Scott
<jswart...@cox.net> wrote:
[...]
>A spider stretching his wings... hmm, I might have to use that in a
>story. Winged arachnids would be a whole order creepier than their
>walking brethren.
<innocent> If they have wings, why do they need to creep?
</innocent>
Brian
Ross Smith
>
> A spider stretching his wings... hmm, I might have to use that in a
> story. Winged arachnids would be a whole order creepier than their
> walking brethren.
Are you sure "creepier" is exactly the right word here? :-)
(Wasn't there an episode of Sliders that had something like that?)
--
Ross Smith ......... r-s...@ihug.co.nz ......... Auckland, New Zealand
Eagles may soar, but weasels never get sucked into a land war in Asia.
Julia Jones
Swartzfeger <jswart...@cox.net> writes
>Weren't there other vocal midlist authors lately (last 10 years)
>complaining they couldn't sell their work? For some reason only Tanith
>Lee and Spider Robinson are coming to mind...
A different genre, but Barbara Paul got dropped a few years ago along
with the rest of her publisher's midlist authors. Not because they
weren't profitable, but because they weren't making a *big* enough
profit to suit the suits at the parent conglomerate.
--
Julia Jones
Remus Shepherd
> Jay Swartzfeger <jswart...@cox.net> wrote:
>> Weren't there other vocal midlist authors lately (last 10 years)
>> complaining they couldn't sell their work? For some reason only Tanith
>> Lee and Spider Robinson are coming to mind...
>>
> As I recall, Robinson's problem was reduced demand for more of the same --
> that is, for more Callahan stories. I can immediately think of two reasons
> (other than "the editors are nuts, and don't realize that another Callahan
> novel would outsell all the Star Trek and Star Wars novels").
But Spider has done books other than Callahan novels. Is he having
problems selling non-Callahan stories, or is he insisting on creating nothing
but stories his publisher doesn't want?
... ...
Remus Shepherd <re...@panix.com>
jhetley
"Jay Swartzfeger" <jswart...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:jswartzfeger-DCD7...@news.west.cox.net...
>
> Weren't there other vocal midlist authors lately (last 10 years)
> complaining they couldn't sell their work? For some reason only Tanith
> Lee and Spider Robinson are coming to mind...
>
Barry Longyear has mentioned problems, although in his case there may have
been contributing factors. Lee and Miller had to go with self-publishing on
their Liaden stuff for a while, working back into the Big Game by sustaining
demand. But I imagine Steve can comment on their experience.
--
Jim
THE SUMMER COUNTRY, by James A. Hetley
a novel of dark contemporary fantasy from Ace Science Fiction & Fantasy
2002 LOCUS magazine "Recommended Reading" selection.
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
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Dan Goodman
news:b51tnp$ben$1...@reader2.panix.com:
As I recall, he was told that he could get a larger advance for a non-
Callahan novel than for another Callahan novel.
Beth Friedman
<mjla...@erols.com>, <ibq77vk50vtns80lg...@4ax.com>,
wrote:
>>The Internet Speculative Fiction Data Base shows three novels published in
>>2002.
>
>And isn't it *wonderful* that Texas A&M is hosting the ISFDB so it's
>back up again? I wrote them a thank-you email.
URL? I've been missing it considerably.
--
Beth Friedman
b...@wavefront.com
Dan Goodman
Marilee J. Layman
steve miller
>Weren't there other vocal midlist authors lately (last 10 years)
>complaining they couldn't sell their work? For some reason only Tanith
>Lee and Spider Robinson are coming to mind...
We went some years without selling a book, not because we weren't
writing but in part because publishers (read marketing departments)
weren't interested in "broken series" from other publishers. I'm not
sure we complained all that vocally, but certainly our readers
complained and eventually a publisher (with the marketing department
in the same person as the publisher) heard that complaint and took a
gamble.
We did not try the "bombard everyone" with sample chapter route; we
did send the books around periodically and have many frustrating
letters in our files ("Everyone here at x-publishing was glad to read
this book. We can't use it, please send us your next...") from that
period.
Eventually we found an agent who fell in love with two of our books,
and when she couldn't sell them after more than a year... we got the
call from Stephe Pagel.
I have to wonder if part of the problem of our not being able to sell
the books is that for some time after we moved to Maine we weren't in
view -- we stopped going to conventions for about 9 years -- and it
took the internet to get us back in view. Now, of course, we're going
to conventions around the US and Canada and our last couple books have
hit the amazon top 100 and Locus lists, so something is now working.
My early advice to the person who started this thread was to go to
conventions. I'll stand by that.
Steve
Lee & Miller's The Tomorrow Log on sale now
see our electronic books at www.embiid.net
Sharon Lee & Steve Miller: www.korval.com
steve miller
<jhe...@hotmail.edit.com> wrote:
>Barry Longyear has mentioned problems, although in his case there may have
>been contributing factors. Lee and Miller had to go with self-publishing on
>their Liaden stuff for a while, working back into the Big Game by sustaining
>demand. But I imagine Steve can comment on their experience.
Part of what happened with us -- the self-publishing -- was simply
supplying willing and self-identidfied readers with short fiction.
That was an accident -- we didn't realize we'd be able to sell
thousands of chapbooks, having been assured by a New York editor that
we didn't have an audience or a career. And, FWIW, we figure that the
first chapbook (Two Tales of Korval) has now brought in more money to
the house than all three Del Rey edition Liaden novels did.
About the time the self-publishing became a business in its own right
Stephe Pagel stepped up to bat and was willing to take the whole novel
series, including three books sight unseen. The Embiid and Ace
follow-ons were a good gravy; but by then the reader base was
restablished.
Selling The Tomorrow Log to Stephe was an accident, caused by the
amount of work that Sharon was doing for SFWA. We were behind on a
Liaden book (now due next year) and knew we could get it done...but it
would be rushed. Rather than rush us, Stephe took The Tomorrow Log,
which we'd just snagged back from a publisher who asked to see it,
said they wanted it, and who had boilerplate in the contract that was
said to be immutable...and which rankled us so bad we pulled it.
Dan Goodman
news:kijc7v8pt94ih52sd...@4ax.com:
Going to conventions is not sufficient.
I've encountered two new writers who said they were attending cons to
further their careers. Each had had one book published.
One had the second volume of her trilogy published; the other doesn't
seem to have had anything else published.
steve miller
>Going to conventions is not sufficient.
True. If one goes to conventions and is a party animal and doesn't pay
attention to the information flow, one will acheive only a good time
at a con. Also, if one isn't writing, going to the con won't help. If
one isn't wriitng
>I've encountered two new writers who said they were attending cons to
>further their careers. Each had had one book published.
>One had the second volume of her trilogy published; the other doesn't
>seem to have had anything else published.
And I've encountered new writers at conventions who were clueless and
remained clueless, working under the assumption that they'd be stars
simply because they showed up.
OK: in brief -- a writer's job at a convention:
1. If a panelist -- to attend the panel, be prepared for the panel,
and to participate in a sharing rather than aggressive manner.
2. If not a panelist -- to be a member of the audience, to particpate
(respectfully) from the floor if the moderator and topic permit -- and
to pay attention both to the panel topic and to the way the audience
reacts to panel members.
3. To be in the dealer's room on mulitple occasions; know where in the
room your book is and where books by other attendees are, to sign
books if they are available. A writer should watch people at dealer's
tables to see the flow and to listen (without injecting oneself) to
dealer and patrom interactions about books, especially your own.
4. To participate in other group functions, to be seen in the artshow
(good idea to know who the artists are, in fact), to participate in
some way in the art or specilaty auctions.
5. Attend parties. This sounds easy, but it doesn't mean that if
you're a Tor author you should park yourself in the back corner of the
Tor party and snarf down beer all night -- it means if there are bid
parties you should make at least a several minute walk through of each
of them, and if you can you should make sure you hit the consutie/ con
party as well. You can, in fact, camp out a couple parties for awhile,
but you should still be seen and be available to be talked with.
So -- if you go to the con, take all your meals away from the
convention, refuse to autograph except on your official signing hour,
and hide out in the publisher's party or "private pro party", you may
not be making the most of the convention in terms of expanding
readership and in networking.
Irina Rempt
> OK: in brief -- a writer's job at a convention:
(five parts of the writer's job)
Ugh. I'm not going to cons now for financial and logistical reasons, and
if I ever become a published writer I probably won't be going to cons
either; if I did go, I'd want to go in order to have fun, talk to
people of my choice, do things I was interested in, etcetera. I'm not
naturally a party animal, but I like interacting with people without
strings attached, not "networking".
Irina
--
Vesta veran, terna puran, farenin. http://www.valdyas.org/irina/
Beghinnen can ick, volherden will' ick, volbringhen sal ick.
http://www.valdyas.org/~irina/foundobjects/ Latest: 11-Mar-2003
steve miller
wrote:
>Ugh. I'm not going to cons now for financial and logistical reasons, and
>if I ever become a published writer I probably won't be going to cons
>either; if I did go, I'd want to go in order to have fun, talk to
>people of my choice, do things I was interested in, etcetera. I'm not
>naturally a party animal, but I like interacting with people without
>strings attached, not "networking".
>
> Irina
OK. I go to cons because I like them. They work for me because I'm
part of the community. Being part of the community has
responsibilities -- see my post.
What I'm suggesting people avoid is going to conventions with the
intention of hiding out with pals except for brief public appearances.
My job descriptions are descriptions of what people I know do, and
what I do, in terms of participation. It's like learnign to drive a
car -- it all sounds so hard when you read it described and it's so
natural when you do it...
Julian Flood
"steve miller" wrote
> OK: in brief -- a writer's job at a convention:
[snip list that looks like the thing Mrs Flood leaves me when she goes to
work and which somehow lacks appeal]
So getting pissed and being rude to Banksie doesn't count then?
JF
Dan Goodman
> On 18 Mar 2003 04:17:51 GMT, Dan Goodman <dsg...@visi.com> wrote:
>
>>Going to conventions is not sufficient.
>
> True. If one goes to conventions and is a party animal and doesn't pay
> attention to the information flow, one will acheive only a good time
> at a con. Also, if one isn't writing, going to the con won't help. If
> one isn't wriitng
>
>>I've encountered two new writers who said they were attending cons to
>>further their careers. Each had had one book published.
>>One had the second volume of her trilogy published; the other doesn't
>>seem to have had anything else published.
>
> And I've encountered new writers at conventions who were clueless and
> remained clueless, working under the assumption that they'd be stars
> simply because they showed up.
Yes, there do tend to be other writers at cons.
A couple of things to add:
1) When dealing with people, it's best not to seem as if you consider it
work.
2) There's no telling which teenager will grow up to be an editor you'll
want to submit to. Or which middle-aged person will turn out to be the
spouse of someone you'll want to be on good terms with.
Dan Goodman
@calcifer.valdyas.org:
> On Tuesday 18 March 2003 19:12 steve miller wrote:
>
>> OK: in brief -- a writer's job at a convention:
>
> (five parts of the writer's job)
>
> Ugh. I'm not going to cons now for financial and logistical reasons, and
> if I ever become a published writer I probably won't be going to cons
> either; if I did go, I'd want to go in order to have fun, talk to
> people of my choice, do things I was interested in, etcetera. I'm not
> naturally a party animal, but I like interacting with people without
> strings attached, not "networking".
But you would be networking as a side effect -- and quite likely, more
effectively than most writers intent on networking.
Brian Pickrell
> On Tuesday 18 March 2003 19:12 steve miller wrote:
>
> > OK: in brief -- a writer's job at a convention:
>
> (five parts of the writer's job)
>
> Ugh. I'm not going to cons now for financial and logistical reasons, and
> if I ever become a published writer I probably won't be going to cons
> either; if I did go, I'd want to go in order to have fun, talk to
> people of my choice, do things I was interested in, etcetera.
Sounds to me like you've got it wired.
Nicky Browne
> > A couple of things to add:
>
> 1) When dealing with people, it's best not to seem as if you consider it
> work.
>
> 2) There's no telling which teenager will grow up to be an editor you'll
> want to submit to. Or which middle-aged person will turn out to be the
> spouse of someone you'll want to be on good terms with.
I have never been to a convention but in general terms have never been
much good at being nice to people on the grounds that one day they
might be useful to me. ( I know thats not exactly what you're saying
but its an implication)
I am generally sociable and don't mind small talk, but if someone is a
total pillock I move on, whoever they are.
Nicky ( discovering yet another major personality flaw)
Tim S
And yet, strangely, you've succeeded in your chosen profession. How odd. :-)
Tim
steve miller
<j...@floodsclimbers.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>
>So getting pissed and being rude to Banksie doesn't count then?
? I admit it. You've left me in the dust with this.
steve miller
<che...@starswarmnews.com> wrote:
>On Tue, 18 Mar 2003 23:48:38 -0000, "Julian Flood"
><j...@floodsclimbers.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>>
>>So getting pissed and being rude to Banksie doesn't count then?
>
>? I admit it. You've left me in the dust with this.
>
>Steve
I wonder if you have me confused with some other Steve or Stephen?
Dan Goodman
news:659bfd21.03031...@posting.google.com:
> Dan Goodman <dsg...@visi.com> wrote in message
> news:<Xns9342DED813C...@209.98.13.60>...
>> > A couple of things to add:
>>
>> 1) When dealing with people, it's best not to seem as if you consider
>> it work.
>>
>> 2) There's no telling which teenager will grow up to be an editor
>> you'll want to submit to. Or which middle-aged person will turn out
>> to be the spouse of someone you'll want to be on good terms with.
>
> I have never been to a convention but in general terms have never been
> much good at being nice to people on the grounds that one day they
> might be useful to me. ( I know thats not exactly what you're saying
> but its an implication)
What I had in mind was very, very minimal politeness.
> I am generally sociable and don't mind small talk, but if someone is a
> total pillock I move on, whoever they are.
But you don't say "Get out of my way, creep -- I see someone I want to talk
to!"
And _that_ is more politeness than some writers bother with.
Remus Shepherd
Good suggestions for famous writers. What about for new writers?
1 and 3 don't apply, 2 and 4 are nice but don't matter to your career. That
leaves 5 -- partying. In moderation, of course.
Boy, the more I learn the more I realized how stupid I was at Worldcon
2001. I didn't know there were con parties open to the public -- I thought
they were all invitation only. It wasn't until the last night of the
convention, when I was getting desperate for things to do, that I looked
into what was happening on the upper hotel floors. :)
Remus Shepherd
> What I had in mind was very, very minimal politeness.
>> I am generally sociable and don't mind small talk, but if someone is a
>> total pillock I move on, whoever they are.
> But you don't say "Get out of my way, creep -- I see someone I want to talk
> to!"
> And _that_ is more politeness than some writers bother with.
Another story from the Worldcon I attended -- I went to a panel
presentation for people who were attending their first sci-fi convention.
The speaker said, "Don't be an asshole". I raised my hand and said, "But
what if you're naturally that way?"
The speaker responded with, "Well, if you're funny or charming, you can
get away with a lot", after which she started talking about Harlan Ellison.
Dan Goodman
1 most definitely _does_ apply. You don't even have to be published to be
on a panel.
_Most_ of 3 applies even if you haven't yet had a book published. If
you've had a book published, it all applies. Unless your published work
isn't available in the dealer's room. In which case, your next lesson is
"How to make sure your book is available for sale in a con's dealer's
room."
2 and 4 are nice but don't matter to your career.
He's saying, quite plainly, that they _do_ (or at least, can) matter to
your career.
Steve Taylor
>>>So getting pissed and being rude to Banksie doesn't count then?
>> I admit it. You've left me in the dust with this.
> I wonder if you have me confused with some other Steve or Stephen?
My interpretation - he was joking about his behaviour at cons, you read
it as referring to your behaviour at cons. Confusion ensued.
Does that sound right?
> Steve
Steve (But not you. I'm someone else.)
Marilee J. Layman
<che...@starswarmnews.com> wrote:
>On Tue, 18 Mar 2003 23:48:38 -0000, "Julian Flood"
><j...@floodsclimbers.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>>
>>So getting pissed and being rude to Banksie doesn't count then?
>
>? I admit it. You've left me in the dust with this.
Julian is talking about getting drunk and being rude to Ian (M) Banks
at cons.
steve miller
<re...@panix.com> wrote:
>steve miller <che...@starswarmnews.com> wrote:
>
> Good suggestions for famous writers. What about for new writers?
>1 and 3 don't apply, 2 and 4 are nice but don't matter to your career. That
>leaves 5 -- partying. In moderation, of course.
1 is good to know -- and you should realize that if you qualify as a
writer you can sometimes get last-minute fill-in spots on panels and
events. This is particularly true of local conventions, but extends
all the way up to worldcons.
2 -- oops -- of course it is nice and of course it can matter to your
career. Con committee members from lots of conventions attend panels,
and editors and other writers do, too. This can be a useful visibility
as long as you don't try to take over the panel from the floor. I've
heard editors say "Oh -- him, yes, I've seen him discuss such and so.
Is he submitting somewhere?" In my editor-and-reader hat I've even
had purchasing editors say -- "I'd really like to buy something from
so-and-so, I think they know their stuff..."
FWIW, I've gotten a(very much needed!) free lunch or dinner several
times from people who wanted to keep on discussing a panel topic...and
that's a definite bennie! That those people recall the name and think
about you for panel at their convention... happens.
Well, 3 does apply. If you have anything in print, you should check
the dealer's room to see where it is and to be able to point people
toward it. If you've sold something but it isn't yet in print you
should know which dealers will likely carry it. It doesn't hurt (even
if your book or story isn't coming out for months) to introduce
yourself to the appropriate dealers (as long as you don't bother a
sale in progress) as "hello, I'm ... do you usually stock all of (name
the publisher)?...
4... sigh. OK, forget the artshow, or not. Volunteer to help in the
green room -- you'll get to meet a lot of people that way. Or, help
with the SFWA Emergency Medical Fund Auction -- good cause, helps
people, gets you seen. And if you can afford to risk $10 or $25 or
$50, or whatver, join in the auction process. It can be fun,
challenging, and again, you acheive a visibility that sitting in the
SFWA suite can't get you.
Brenda W. Clough
Well, you can pick up a lot about the state of the industry by
judiciously choosing the panels you attend. It is worth meeting the
editors that you hope to sell to, if you can -- having a face to hook up
to a name can't hurt. All this gives you something to put into your
cover letter ("We met briefly at the Baen party at Worldcon in Chicago,
when I described this fantasy trilogy to you...")
The fact is that assuming you plan to write SF, Worldcon will be
populated by your readers, editors and agents. It is always worth
getting to know your market better.
Brenda
--
---------
Brenda W. Clough
Read my novella "May Be Some Time"
Complete at http://www.fictionwise.com
My web page is at http://www.sff.net/people/Brenda/
Brenda W. Clough
>4... sigh. OK, forget the artshow, or not. Volunteer to help in the
>green room -- you'll get to meet a lot of people that way. Or, help
>with the SFWA Emergency Medical Fund Auction -- good cause, helps
>people, gets you seen. And if you can afford to risk $10 or $25 or
>$50, or whatver, join in the auction process. It can be fun,
>challenging, and again, you acheive a visibility that sitting in the
>SFWA suite can't get you.
>
I suggest volunteering to help in the SFWA Suite. This gives you a
reason to be there, earns you the gratitude of many SFWAns, and allows
you to see and be seen. After you've helped Joe Haldeman wrestle a
recalcitrant wine cork out of the bottle you are friends!
Dan Goodman
@erols.com:
> steve miller wrote:
>
>>4... sigh. OK, forget the artshow, or not. Volunteer to help in the
>>green room -- you'll get to meet a lot of people that way. Or, help
>>with the SFWA Emergency Medical Fund Auction -- good cause, helps
>>people, gets you seen. And if you can afford to risk $10 or $25 or
>>$50, or whatver, join in the auction process. It can be fun,
>>challenging, and again, you acheive a visibility that sitting in the
>>SFWA suite can't get you.
>>
>
>
> I suggest volunteering to help in the SFWA Suite. This gives you a
> reason to be there, earns you the gratitude of many SFWAns, and allows
> you to see and be seen.
By SFWAns, but not by people who can't yet get into the SFWA Suite.
Remus Shepherd
> 2 -- oops -- of course it is nice and of course it can matter to your
> career. Con committee members from lots of conventions attend panels,
> and editors and other writers do, too. This can be a useful visibility
> as long as you don't try to take over the panel from the floor. I've
> heard editors say "Oh -- him, yes, I've seen him discuss such and so.
> Is he submitting somewhere?" In my editor-and-reader hat I've even
> had purchasing editors say -- "I'd really like to buy something from
> so-and-so, I think they know their stuff..."
I guess I just don't understand networking...and by extension, I suppose,
the human race. :) If what I submit to editors is judged impartially, what
does it matter if they've met me in person? And if it isn't judged
impartially, what chance do I have to compete with other authors who spend
all their time schmoozing at cons?
> 4... sigh. OK, forget the artshow, or not. Volunteer to help in the
> green room -- you'll get to meet a lot of people that way. Or, help
> with the SFWA Emergency Medical Fund Auction -- good cause, helps
> people, gets you seen. And if you can afford to risk $10 or $25 or
> $50, or whatver, join in the auction process. It can be fun,
> challenging, and again, you acheive a visibility that sitting in the
> SFWA suite can't get you.
I'm nervous about volunteering for activities I don't know how to do,
with people I don't know, in order to network which is something I don't
understand. :) Hopefully after a few conventions I'll feel better about
it.
This isn't idle curiosity -- I'm going to Minicon in Minnesota on
Easter weekend. I don't know anyone at the convention, and I have no idea
what I'm going to *do* there. Probably sit in my room and read when there's
no panels going on.
Dan Goodman
> steve miller <che...@starswarmnews.com> wrote:
>> 2 -- oops -- of course it is nice and of course it can matter to your
>> career. Con committee members from lots of conventions attend panels,
>> and editors and other writers do, too. This can be a useful
>> visibility as long as you don't try to take over the panel from the
>> floor. I've heard editors say "Oh -- him, yes, I've seen him discuss
>> such and so. Is he submitting somewhere?" In my editor-and-reader
>> hat I've even had purchasing editors say -- "I'd really like to buy
>> something from so-and-so, I think they know their stuff..."
>
> I guess I just don't understand networking...and by extension, I
> suppose,
> the human race. :) If what I submit to editors is judged
> impartially, what does it matter if they've met me in person? And if
> it isn't judged impartially, what chance do I have to compete with
> other authors who spend all their time schmoozing at cons?
Note that in the above, Steve is _not_ talking about schmoozing. He's
talking about participating in somewhat formal discussion.
Aside from that, you have a noticeable advantage over authors who aren't
good at interacting with other people _and don't know it_.
Picture a man who spends all his time approaching women in bars and saying
"You're better than nothing, so let's screw." How much of an advantage
does he have?
>> 4... sigh. OK, forget the artshow, or not. Volunteer to help in the
>> green room -- you'll get to meet a lot of people that way. Or, help
>> with the SFWA Emergency Medical Fund Auction -- good cause, helps
>> people, gets you seen. And if you can afford to risk $10 or $25 or
>> $50, or whatver, join in the auction process. It can be fun,
>> challenging, and again, you acheive a visibility that sitting in the
>> SFWA suite can't get you.
>
> I'm nervous about volunteering for activities I don't know how to
> do,
> with people I don't know, in order to network which is something I
> don't understand. :) Hopefully after a few conventions I'll feel
> better about it.
>
> This isn't idle curiosity -- I'm going to Minicon in Minnesota on
> Easter weekend. I don't know anyone at the convention, and I have no
> idea what I'm going to *do* there. Probably sit in my room and read
> when there's no panels going on.
You sort of know several people, through this newsgroup and others. That's
a start.
The dealer's room will have books and magazines for sale, and is open at
some times when there aren't panels.
Some of the room parties are likely places to get into serious and semi-
serious discussions of one kind or another. I can help you figure out which
ones.
Marilee J. Layman
<re...@panix.com> wrote:
> I'm nervous about volunteering for activities I don't know how to do,
>with people I don't know, in order to network which is something I don't
>understand. :) Hopefully after a few conventions I'll feel better about
>it.
>
> This isn't idle curiosity -- I'm going to Minicon in Minnesota on
>Easter weekend. I don't know anyone at the convention, and I have no idea
>what I'm going to *do* there. Probably sit in my room and read when there's
>no panels going on.
You can volunteer for just plain volunteer jobs. I usually volunteer
to help in the consuite with something like sitting down and cutting
vegetables, but there are a lot of jobs that don't require any
specialized skills.
I usually have to nap between stuff I'm doing. Minicon always makes
good breaks for meals, so be sure to look for some of us milling
around to go have food. Here's a picture of me from last year, my
hair will be a bit shorter this year (got it cut today and am actually
wearing today what's in this picture):
Julie Pascal
> > I guess I just don't understand networking...and by extension, I
> > suppose,
> > the human race. :) If what I submit to editors is judged
> > impartially, what does it matter if they've met me in person? And if
> > it isn't judged impartially, what chance do I have to compete with
> > other authors who spend all their time schmoozing at cons?
I stink at networking-on-purpose. Names elude me. If I get
introduced to people I can't remember to the end of the handshake
what they said their name was. But I do know one editor and
what I would expect, if I sent a story to his e-zine, would be that
he would notice my name and perhaps read my submission sooner.
Hopefully his thoughts would be a happy "Oh, look at this. Julie
sent a story. I wonder what she's up to." Or maybe "I wonder if
she's improved at all." LOL. But the story has to stand on it's
own and it has to be right for the market. I wouldn't expect any
preference from him at all.
(Incidentally, he once said something like... I know that the stories
we get were submitted to the major SF magazines and were
rejected by them before they were sent to us, but what we get
is really very good... Which I found heartening in a big way.)
(...)
> > I'm nervous about volunteering for activities I don't know how to
> > do,
> > with people I don't know, in order to network which is something I
> > don't understand. :) Hopefully after a few conventions I'll feel
> > better about it.
Most likely. I haven't been to many conventions. Just Baycon a
couple of times. It's much easier the second time.
> > This isn't idle curiosity -- I'm going to Minicon in Minnesota on
> > Easter weekend. I don't know anyone at the convention, and I have no
> > idea what I'm going to *do* there. Probably sit in my room and read
> > when there's no panels going on.
Bring books <smile>. I think I'll want to go to my next convention
"alone" just because it means I'll be able to sit and talk to people
or meander around without feeling obligated to consider my
companion. (I attended Baycon with my husband.) There was more
than one time that we shared tables in the hotel restraunt with
strangers because it was packed. It is really easy to meet people.
Honest.
And don't fail to say hello to "famous" people either. I will always
regret not saying hello to Marion Zimmer Bradly when I saw her.
My excuse was that I had no idea what to say. Well, too late now
isn't it. But I did say hello to Poul Andersen and shake his hand.
I'm very glad.
I still have no idea what I'd say beyond "Hello, nice to meet you." If
I managed to meet Lois Bujold or Pat Wrede or oh... any number of
"real" writers, I'll probably make a fool of myself.
> You sort of know several people, through this newsgroup and others. That's
> a start.
>
> The dealer's room will have books and magazines for sale, and is open at
> some times when there aren't panels.
>
> Some of the room parties are likely places to get into serious and semi-
> serious discussions of one kind or another. I can help you figure out
which
> ones.
Me too? Well, in my hopeful moments I tell myself, "They're gonna
have a Minicon next year. You can go to that one."
--Julie
Julie Pascal
e-mail it to you Dan?
--Julie
"Dan Goodman" <dsg...@visi.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9343E5CB58C...@209.98.13.60...
Julia Jones
<dsg...@visi.com> writes
>_Most_ of 3 applies even if you haven't yet had a book published. If
>you've had a book published, it all applies. Unless your published work
>isn't available in the dealer's room. In which case, your next lesson is
>"How to make sure your book is available for sale in a con's dealer's
>room."
And if it's an ebook, only available as a download?
--
Julia Jones
The suespammers.org mail server is located in California; do not send
unsolicited bulk e-mail or unsolicited commercial e-mail to my suespammers.org
address.
Julian Flood
"steve miller" wrote
> ? I admit it. You've left me in the dust with this.
<looks shifty> I'd rather not talk about it, thank you. And I'd rather
forget the hangover.
JF
Julian Flood
"Steve Taylor" wrote
> >>>So getting pissed and being rude to Banksie doesn't count then?
>
> >> I admit it. You've left me in the dust with this.
> > I wonder if you have me confused with some other Steve or Stephen?
>
> My interpretation - he was joking about his behaviour at cons, you read
> it as referring to your behaviour at cons. Confusion ensued.
>
> Does that sound right?
Spot on.
<assumes small and ludicrous beard> Now, yunk man, lie down on this couch.
Tell me how
you respond when Asimov's send you a rejection slip** which says that many
of
the stories submitted to them fail because of poor use of English. Do you
assume that it doesn't apply to you? Do you check anyway? Do you feel that
they are addressing you directly and that you are a talentless dork and vow
to write no more?*
Hmmm. Interestink. Now, tell me about your mother...
JF
*My reaction. And I search through the commas: I'm bad at commas.
**11 so far this year. None of them near misses. The novels queries came
back so fast*** they were obviously telling fibs about accepting unagented
subs.
***But hah! Radio prog last week with John Grisham said that, even after he
had an agent, his first novel was rejected 25 times.
David Friedman
Remus Shepherd <re...@panix.com> wrote:
> I'm nervous about volunteering for activities I don't know how to do,
> with people I don't know, in order to network which is something I don't
> understand. :) Hopefully after a few conventions I'll feel better about
> it.
Let me make a general point, based on non-fan experience. Volunteering
to help with something makes you a part of it, puts you in contact with
the people who are running it, makes the whole process more interesting
for you.
You aren't volunteering expertise. You are volunteering to do whatever
they tell you needs to be done.
Irina Rempt
> "Brenda W. Clough" <clo...@erols.com> wrote in news:3E790F0C.5000402
> @erols.com:
>> I suggest volunteering to help in the SFWA Suite. This gives you a
>> reason to be there, earns you the gratitude of many SFWAns, and
>> allows you to see and be seen.
>
> By SFWAns, but not by people who can't yet get into the SFWA Suite.
For instance, because they aren't published writers, or have the bad
luck not to be American?
Irina
--
Vesta veran, terna puran, farenin. http://www.valdyas.org/irina/
Beghinnen can ick, volherden will' ick, volbringhen sal ick.
http://www.valdyas.org/~irina/foundobjects/ Latest: 11-Mar-2003
Neil Barnes
news:OhURBoEX...@jajones.demon.co.uk:
> In message <Xns93438B20728...@209.98.13.60>, Dan
> Goodman <dsg...@visi.com> writes
>>_Most_ of 3 applies even if you haven't yet had a book
>>published. If you've had a book published, it all applies.
>>Unless your published work isn't available in the dealer's
>>room. In which case, your next lesson is "How to make sure
>>your book is available for sale in a con's dealer's room."
>
> And if it's an ebook, only available as a download?
But surely you set up that shiny new iBook as a server?
Neil
--
note - the email address in this message is valid but the
signal to noise ratio approaches -40dB. A more useful address
is a similar account at ntlworld-fullstop-com.
Remus Shepherd
> I stink at networking-on-purpose. Names elude me. If I get
> introduced to people I can't remember to the end of the handshake
> what they said their name was.
Ah, we have something in common. :)
> And don't fail to say hello to "famous" people either. I will always
> regret not saying hello to Marion Zimmer Bradly when I saw her.
> My excuse was that I had no idea what to say. Well, too late now
> isn't it. But I did say hello to Poul Andersen and shake his hand.
I shook hands and chatted briefly with a few people at Worldcon.
I begged Gregory Benford to answer a quick question for me ('Can one have
both a science and sci-fi writing career?'), and I made a fool of myself
with Mike Resnick, who I had met on IRC previously.
> I still have no idea what I'd say beyond "Hello, nice to meet you." If
> I managed to meet Lois Bujold or Pat Wrede or oh... any number of
> "real" writers, I'll probably make a fool of myself.
Well, my exact words with Mike, after introducing myself and pointing out
that we had spoken on the net, were, "I'm young, hungry, and I want your
job." His response: "I'm old, tired, and you can have it."
Remus Shepherd
> Picture a man who spends all his time approaching women in bars and saying
> "You're better than nothing, so let's screw." How much of an advantage
> does he have?
I knew a man like that in college. He didn't do very well.
> You sort of know several people, through this newsgroup and others. That's
> a start.
> Some of the room parties are likely places to get into serious and semi-
> serious discussions of one kind or another. I can help you figure out which
> ones.
Well, I'll manage -- I'm not a complete social leper. I just don't
make friends easily, and I have a hard time keeping the ones I make. That
goes back to the earlier discussion about being an asshole. :)
Ideally, at this con I'll learn something, but be completely forgettable.
Then I can make superior submissions to editors who don't know me from Adam.
That's a situation I'd be happy to end up in. :)
Shana Rosenfeld
:
: I'm nervous about volunteering for activities I don't know how to do,
: understand. :) Hopefully after a few conventions I'll feel better about
: it.
There should be plenty of stuff that you know how to do. Just ask "Is
there something I could do to help?" and be prepared to be drafted.
: This isn't idle curiosity -- I'm going to Minicon in Minnesota on
: Easter weekend. I don't know anyone at the convention, and I have no idea
: what I'm going to *do* there. Probably sit in my room and read when there's
: no panels going on.
:
I understand exactly what you mean. I went to Minicon two years ago,
largely because of the people from this newsgroup and RASEFF who were
going to be there. I had a good time. I'm going back this year.
My suggestions are as follows: Go to panels that look interesting. Read
nametags, and if you see a name that looks familiar from a newsgroup post,
go up and say something like "It's nice to meet you in person."
Hang around the edges of groups and listen to the discussion. If you can
make an intelligent or witty comment, do so.
If you are afraid no one will talk to you, try wearing a button that acts
as a conversation point. [I've had luck with many of Nancy Leibowitz's
buttons over the years. www.nancybuttons.com.]
Minicon is a smallish convention, so it does not trigger my fear of
crowds, and faces will start to look familiar fairly quickly. The people
are friendly, and generally polite.
I'll look for you there.
--
Shana L. Rosenfeld sh...@westnet.com
Beth Friedman
<re...@panix.com>, <b5bf68$hos$1...@reader2.panix.com>, wrote:
> This isn't idle curiosity -- I'm going to Minicon in Minnesota on
>Easter weekend. I don't know anyone at the convention, and I have no idea
>what I'm going to *do* there. Probably sit in my room and read when there's
>no panels going on.
One of the best ways to meet people and feel part of the convention is
to volunteer. There's lot of need for jobs that don't take much more
than warm bodies. And we really appreciate volunteers. Gofer, badger
(sitting in front of a door to make sure people entering have badges),
and registration are the main places. I generally have more fun at a
convention if I'm volunteering.
Your call, of course -- and feel free to stop by Program Prep
(combined Green Room and Program Ops) to say hi. That's where I'll be
spending most of my time.
--
Beth Friedman
b...@wavefront.com
Nicky Browne
> on 19/3/03 7:54 am, Nicky Browne at nicky.m...@btinternet.com wrote:
>
> > Dan Goodman <dsg...@visi.com> wrote in message
> >>> A couple of things to add:
> >>
> >> 1) When dealing with people, it's best not to seem as if you consider it
> >> work.
> >>
> >> 2) There's no telling which teenager will grow up to be an editor you'll
> >> want to submit to. Or which middle-aged person will turn out to be the
> >> spouse of someone you'll want to be on good terms with.
> >
> > I have never been to a convention but in general terms have never been
> > much good at being nice to people on the grounds that one day they
> > might be useful to me. ( I know thats not exactly what you're saying
> > but its an implication)
> > total pillock I move on, whoever they are.
> >
>
I don't know the jury's still out on that one!
>
Nicky
Trip the Space Parasite From:
>steve miller <che...@starswarmnews.com> wrote:
>> 2 -- oops -- of course it is nice and of course it can matter to your
>> career. Con committee members from lots of conventions attend panels,
>> and editors and other writers do, too. This can be a useful visibility
>> as long as you don't try to take over the panel from the floor. I've
>> heard editors say "Oh -- him, yes, I've seen him discuss such and so.
>> Is he submitting somewhere?" In my editor-and-reader hat I've even
>> had purchasing editors say -- "I'd really like to buy something from
>> so-and-so, I think they know their stuff..."
> I guess I just don't understand networking...and by extension, I suppose,
>the human race. :)
Me either, but...
>If what I submit to editors is judged impartially, what
>does it matter if they've met me in person? And if it isn't judged
>impartially, what chance do I have to compete with other authors who spend
>all their time schmoozing at cons?
...perhaps the benefit of networking isn't linear with time spent? Just
meeting someone gets you moved to the mental list of people who really
exist instead of being figments of the postal system, while spending the
entire con schmoozing gets you moved only slightly higher on the
list?
Or maybe not. I just eat the brains, not so much with the analysis.
Trip
--
I write of things which I have neither seen nor learned from another,
things which are not and never could have been, and therefore my readers
should by no means believe them. --Lucian of Samosata
Remus Shepherd
> Minicon is a smallish convention, so it does not trigger my fear of
> crowds, and faces will start to look familiar fairly quickly. The people
> are friendly, and generally polite.
Sounds like fun.
> I'll look for you there.
Uh, I'll look for you. Note that 'Remus Shepherd' is not my real name.
I have had problems in the past putting my real name on the internet. I
forget which one I put on my name tag. :)
steve miller
<re...@panix.com> wrote:
> If what I submit to editors is judged impartially, what
>does it matter if they've met me in person?
Wait, wait! This is not a contest. There's nothing saying an editor
needs to be impartial. Editors are looking to sell books or stories,
and if they see you at a convention and think that you'll have an
advantage selling over other people in the same bracket, then you (and
they) are up. If they see you at a convention and think you're a
liability, then they won't take your book. This is about selling
books.
>And if it isn't judged
>impartially, what chance do I have to compete with other authors who spend
>all their time schmoozing at cons?
See above. Some writers schmooze badly, some give lousy panels -- but
if you're looking for a way to get in the door, conventions often
represent that opportunity. My second pro short story sale was a
result of (by pre--arrangement) turning in a corrected short story to
an editor at a convention. At which point he asked me (since I was
local) if I happened to have any short stories around within a certain
word length because someone else had failed of delivering the
promisied story... as it happens I *did* have something, which I
brought to him the next day, and he bought it on the spot. An editor
who sees you on/at a panel and thus decides to look out for your work
is not reacting to schmoozing but is looking out for their own best
interest.
> I'm nervous about volunteering for activities I don't know how to do,
>with people I don't know, in order to network which is something I don't
>understand. :) Hopefully after a few conventions I'll feel better about
>it.
Yep. I can understand that. Now here's a clue: most fan-run
conventions don't sell tickets -- they sell memberships. In my
experience this is no idle hairsplititng. If you go to the MiniCon
website you'll probably find a place to volunteer, or to be a gopher
or gofer. Drop them a note, tell them you'd like to help...and likely
they'll find a non-heinous way for you to join in.
Geoff Wedig
> On Tuesday 18 March 2003 19:12 steve miller wrote:
>> OK: in brief -- a writer's job at a convention:
> (five parts of the writer's job)
> Ugh. I'm not going to cons now for financial and logistical reasons, and
> if I ever become a published writer I probably won't be going to cons
> either; if I did go, I'd want to go in order to have fun, talk to
> people of my choice, do things I was interested in, etcetera. I'm not
> naturally a party animal, but I like interacting with people without
> strings attached, not "networking".
And there's nothing wrong with that. Cons are a lot of fun. But don't
delude yourself into thinking that going to a con will help your career
unless you take a real effort at it. And maybe not even then.
Geoff
Suzanne A Blom
Irina Rempt <ir...@valdyas.org> wrote in message
news:5956456.V...@calcifer.valdyas.org...
> On Thursday 20 March 2003 02:50 Dan Goodman wrote:
>
> > "Brenda W. Clough" <clo...@erols.com> wrote in news:3E790F0C.5000402
> > @erols.com:
>
> >> I suggest volunteering to help in the SFWA Suite. This gives you a
> >> reason to be there, earns you the gratitude of many SFWAns, and
> >> allows you to see and be seen.
> >
> > By SFWAns, but not by people who can't yet get into the SFWA Suite.
>
> For instance, because they aren't published writers, or have the bad
> luck not to be American?
>
recently, I believe you only have to be published in the US, not live
here.--I mean one of our presidents was living in France at the time.
Suzanne A Blom
David Friedman <dd...@daviddfriedman.com> wrote in message
news:ddfr-40485B.0...@sea-read.news.verio.net...
have something set to say to one another & gets me over that awkward time at
the beginning of a con when there's not really that much to do.
Suzanne A Blom
Beth Friedman <b...@wavefront.com> wrote in message
news:4qpj7v0dvk8ntij24...@4ax.com...
since I won't be going. (Beth, did you get my email?)
Anna Feruglio Dal Dan
Seconded. When I volunteered in Glasgow in '95 (mostly to shake off the
unwanted attentions of a fellow traveller I was on holiday with that
year), not only I had no volunteer experience, I didn't even understand
the language perfectly. I had a great time and a great con and no
difficulty whatsoever, and people were touchingly grateful for the very
little I did. (And I got the t-shirt too!)
--
Anna Feruglio Dal Dan - ada...@despammed.com - this is a valid address
homepage: http://www.fantascienza.net/sfpeople/elethiomel
English blog: http://annafdd.blogspot.com/
Blog in italiano: http://fulminiesaette.blogspot.com
Remus Shepherd
> <re...@panix.com> wrote:
>> If what I submit to editors is judged impartially, what
>>does it matter if they've met me in person?
> Wait, wait! This is not a contest. There's nothing saying an editor
> needs to be impartial. Editors are looking to sell books or stories,
> and if they see you at a convention and think that you'll have an
> advantage selling over other people in the same bracket, then you (and
> they) are up. If they see you at a convention and think you're a
> liability, then they won't take your book. This is about selling
> books.
This *is* a competition. I am competing for valuable space in a
diminishing number of magazines with you, and every person on this newsgroup,
and probably most of the people at the con. It's a friendly competition,
but it's very competitive. If poor social skills, no network of friends,
and a reluctance to attend conventions is going to handicap me, then maybe
I should apply my talents to some other field.
Steve, no offense, but I'm going to have to assume that you're wrong.
I won't be able to function otherwise. :)
I'll note that this is the same trap I fell into in graduate school --
"If I'm a genius, they'll have to give me a PhD, whether they like me or
not!" That didn't fly too well with professors. On the other hand, these
days I'm trying to be much nicer to editors than I was to professors back
in school. :)
Remus Shepherd
> Beth Friedman <b...@wavefront.com> wrote:
>> Your call, of course -- and feel free to stop by Program Prep
>> (combined Green Room and Program Ops) to say hi. That's where I'll be
>> spending most of my time.
I'll do that, Beth.
> If you want to be on panels, you can ask Beth for the ones she assigned me
> since I won't be going. (Beth, did you get my email?)
They warned us at Worldcon, "Don't push to be a panel speaker, it's very
rude!" :) All the same, I am a satellite physicist and I do have an 'Earth
as Art' exhibit in the Library of Congress right now, so I can speak
semi-knowledgeably about sensors or astrogation or something like that, if
you're desperate to fill a chair with a warm body. :)
I'll be happy just attending the convention and meeting people. Minicon
is the closest sci-fi convention to me, so I'm hoping to make this a yearly
trip.
Mary K. Kuhner
David Friedman <dd...@daviddfriedman.com> wrote:
>Let me make a general point, based on non-fan experience. Volunteering
>to help with something makes you a part of it, puts you in contact with
>the people who are running it, makes the whole process more interesting
>for you.
>You aren't volunteering expertise. You are volunteering to do whatever
>they tell you needs to be done.
I'll strongly second that. When I started going to pagan festivals
I felt isolated, at a loss what to do, and uneasy. Then I realized that
by volunteering (to staff the snack kitchen, say, or front registration
desk) I had something to *do* and didn't feel isolated, I met a good
group of people, and I generally felt a lot more connected to what was
going on.
In my current pagan groups, we make a mental note of anyone who stays
late and helps push chairs--okay, that's a person we'll want to encourage,
they have a connection with the group already. I think having editors
feel that way about you could do nothing but good.
Mary Kuhner mkku...@eskimo.com
Brenda W. Clough
>
>And don't fail to say hello to "famous" people either. I will always
>regret not saying hello to Marion Zimmer Bradly when I saw her.
>My excuse was that I had no idea what to say. Well, too late now
>isn't it. But I did say hello to Poul Andersen and shake his hand.
>I'm very glad.
>
It is always appropriate to say "I read your work and I love it." It's
particularly important to say this to older writers, before it's too late.
Brenda
--
---------
Brenda W. Clough
Read my novella "May Be Some Time"
Complete at http://www.fictionwise.com
My web page is at http://www.sff.net/people/Brenda/
Brenda W. Clough
>See above. Some writers schmooze badly, some give lousy panels -- but
>if you're looking for a way to get in the door, conventions often
>represent that opportunity. My second pro short story sale was a
>result of (by pre--arrangement) turning in a corrected short story to
>an editor at a convention. At which point he asked me (since I was
>local) if I happened to have any short stories around within a certain
>word length because someone else had failed of delivering the
>promisied story... as it happens I *did* have something, which I
>brought to him the next day, and he bought it on the spot. An editor
>who sees you on/at a panel and thus decides to look out for your work
>is not reacting to schmoozing but is looking out for their own best
>interest.
>
I have sold many, many books, articles and short stories at parties.
Brenda W. Clough
>This *is* a competition. I am competing for valuable space in a
>diminishing number of magazines with you, and every person on this newsgroup,
>and probably most of the people at the con. It's a friendly competition,
>but it's very competitive. If poor social skills, no network of friends,
>and a reluctance to attend conventions is going to handicap me, then maybe
>I should apply my talents to some other field.
>
Well, don't forget that you can trump all your handicaps by writing
superb and irresistible fiction. Being personable and going to cons may
help, but maybe not. There are writers who have cut their professional
throats by turning up at cons and exhibiting highly unsocial behavior.
Chris Johnson
> does it matter if they've met me in person? And if it isn't judged
> all their time schmoozing at cons?
Write that much better than them.
:)
Chris Johnson
Chris Johnson
Remus Shepherd <re...@panix.com> wrote:
> I shook hands and chatted briefly with a few people at Worldcon.
> I begged Gregory Benford to answer a quick question for me ('Can one have
> both a science and sci-fi writing career?'), and I made a fool of myself
> with Mike Resnick, who I had met on IRC previously.
>
> > I still have no idea what I'd say beyond "Hello, nice to meet you." If
> > I managed to meet Lois Bujold or Pat Wrede or oh... any number of
> > "real" writers, I'll probably make a fool of myself.
>
> Well, my exact words with Mike, after introducing myself and pointing out
> that we had spoken on the net, were, "I'm young, hungry, and I want your
> job." His response: "I'm old, tired, and you can have it."
*hehe*
That _is_ funny. However, it did set you up as the perfect
straight-man ;)
Chris Johnson
Chris Johnson
Remus Shepherd <re...@panix.com> wrote:
> This *is* a competition. I am competing for valuable space in a
> diminishing number of magazines with you, and every person on this newsgroup,
> and probably most of the people at the con. It's a friendly competition,
> but it's very competitive. If poor social skills, no network of friends,
> and a reluctance to attend conventions is going to handicap me, then maybe
> I should apply my talents to some other field.
Does one come to mind? I've recently been distancing myself from the
field of music for exactly this reason. Music is so appallingly
competitive that pursuing it would mean, to a surprisingly large extent,
doing music I don't actually like. Also, it would have to mean gigging
and living on the road- the actual WORK of it tends to mean gigging, on
the road.
For writing, the actual work of it means sitting down, NOT schmoozing
and socializing, and writing. Funny- I'm particularly good at not
schmoozing, and so are you. Don't forget that there are some people who
could not face the actual work- do you seriously feel threatened by a
hypothetical person who was everywhere schmoozing, but could not sit
down alone for long enough to meet a deadline and produce the actual
writing? You're better off than you know.
On the subject of cons and socializing and all that- I have a history
with that which has been very helpful. You may know that I attend some
other sorts of cons, furry cons, and that I hand-sew costume tails for
people. I'm not so different from you, but I hit on a strategy that
works very well indeed:
Fear nobody, and want to help.
I'm not kidding, either. Maybe it's easier for me 'cos I'm pretty
upfront that I'm a madman, cat-minded, not especially domesticated, very
competitive, loaded with interesting flaws... but KNOWING these things
allows me to go into a situation with enthusiasm, wanting genuinely to
help other people, understanding what I should or shouldn't be doing,
and it's been just wonderful. I'm sure it would be no different at a
writer's con, which sounds like fun.
The whole point is: Knowing that I am a sneaky, selfish moggy, I
could go into a situation intent solely on getting my way, and getting
away with it, and would no doubt produce a disaster. (In fact, when I
was a little kid once, in a Cub Scout social situation, I bit another
kid's mom :) which just goes to show you- she thought she was dealing
with a human kid, and attempted to hold me still by force. Oops. The kid
never forgot that, either. All rather embarrassing :) )
Or, I can go into a situation knowing where I'm at, and what kinds of
situations I need to cultivate or avoid. For instance, I won't drink or
use drugs, or hang around people who're bitching and griping and cutting
other people down. I have a limited amount of social time available and
will be on a manic rush the whole con, after which I'll hole up at home
for weeks, so I'll use that rush in scampering about being helpful, and
I'll enjoy the way people appreciate that.
Chris Johnson
Chris Johnson
"Brenda W. Clough" <clo...@erols.com> wrote:
> It is always appropriate to say "I read your work and I love it." It's
> particularly important to say this to older writers, before it's too late.
Bigtime. I have got a huge, huge kick out of the old BBC radio comedy
show, "The Goon Show", which was largely written by Spike Milligan, who
set the tone for it. I never once said so, and Spike was _alive_ until
around 2000- don't even want to look up the exact date as it's still
saddening to consider the loss of him.
"I love your work" may be a seemingly unimaginative thing to say and
not impressive at all, but it can never be the wrong thing to say.
Chris Johnson
Anna Feruglio Dal Dan
> I still have no idea what I'd say beyond "Hello, nice to meet you." If
> I managed to meet Lois Bujold or Pat Wrede or oh... any number of
> "real" writers, I'll probably make a fool of myself.
I _did_ make a fool of myself with Banks, but a) he is a nice man and
acted as if I hadn't and b) I'm decently sure he's forgotten all about
it by now. :-)
Heather Jones
>
> steve miller wrote:
>
> >See above. Some writers schmooze badly, some give lousy panels -- but
> >if you're looking for a way to get in the door, conventions often
> >represent that opportunity. My second pro short story sale was a
> >result of (by pre--arrangement) turning in a corrected short story to
> >an editor at a convention. At which point he asked me (since I was
> >local) if I happened to have any short stories around within a certain
> >word length because someone else had failed of delivering the
> >promisied story... as it happens I *did* have something, which I
> >brought to him the next day, and he bought it on the spot. An editor
> >who sees you on/at a panel and thus decides to look out for your work
> >is not reacting to schmoozing but is looking out for their own best
> >interest.
> >
>
> I have sold many, many books, articles and short stories at parties.
It's astounding the connections that can lead to contracts. The
encyclopedia articles I mentioned in a separate thread (which,
perhaps, don't really count since I'm not being paid money) were
solicited because when I was in Wales several years ago doing
some research for my dissertation, in the office of the
University of Wales Dictionary project, while having tea with
some of the staff, I mentioned my interest in medieval Welsh
clothing and that I'd written a booklet on the topic. One of
them ended up arranging for the National Library to order a
couple copies of the booklet, and thus when they were
brainstorming for someone who could write on the topic of
medieval clothing, my name came up. I'm starting to entertain a
fantasy of eventually parlaying these contacts into a proposal to
turn my medieval Welsh clothing booklet into a "real"
publication. All a chain of serendipity.
Heather
--
*****
Heather Rose Jones
hrj...@socrates.berkeley.edu
*****
Mary K. Kuhner
Brenda W. Clough <clo...@erols.com> wrote:
[it's not the "no's" which languish for a long time, it's the "maybe's"]
And, oh ye Gods, I thought about that when I sent the withdrawal letter.
What if they're looking at it, what if I might be killing my chances,
shouldn't I just wait some more?
But thirteen months and *no* response, not even the damn little card that
says "yes, it arrived" which I carefully tucked in the initial package.
It could be another year, or two. It could be never. And having it
in limbo was killing my desire to write any more, which is bad (bad for
me, not just for my writing).
Mary Kuhner mkku...@eskimo.com
Dan Goodman
news:jinx6568-495160...@fe01.atl2.webusenet.com:
Untrue.
After Shirley Jackson's story "The Lottery" was published, she got a letter
of praise from someone whose name she vaguely remembered as being that of
someone famous. She wrote a short reply.
Later, she asked someone what the guy was famous for.
-"He's the axe murderer."-
She looked at the carbon copy of her letter. Sure enough, she had said
"Thank you. I have always admired your work, too."
Dan Goodman
news:b5bls...@enews1.newsguy.com:
> I responded to this post. Did I make a mistake and
> e-mail it to you Dan?
>
When Usenet posts show up is unpredictable. For example, I've seen answers
long before what they were responding to on almost every newsgroup except
alt.time-travel and alt.sci.time-travel.
I haven't gotten it in email, so it's probably still somewhere in a Usenet
traffic jam.
Dan Goodman
news:b5da8b$5cq$2...@reader2.panix.com:
There are several other cons in the Twin Cities; they'll have flyers out at
Minicon.
Dan Goodman
@reader2.panix.com:
> I am competing for valuable space in a
> diminishing number of magazines
Maybe not. Remember to count in 3SF, the new British prozine.
And there's at least one webzine which has to be considered professional;
sci.fiction pays 20 cents a word, which I believe beats all print sf/f/h
magazines.
Marilee J. Layman
<sh...@westnet.westnet.com> wrote:
>I understand exactly what you mean. I went to Minicon two years ago,
>largely because of the people from this newsgroup and RASEFF who were
>going to be there. I had a good time. I'm going back this year.
Yaaaay!
>Minicon is a smallish convention, so it does not trigger my fear of
>crowds, and faces will start to look familiar fairly quickly. The people
>are friendly, and generally polite.
And don't take themselves too seriously. At any time, day or night,
there will be people laughing themselves silly.
--
Marilee J. Layman
Handmade Bali Sterling Beads at Wholesale
http://www.basicbali.com
Marilee J. Layman
I already looked on the membership list (you could have opted out) and
this name is not on it.
Marilee J. Layman
<re...@panix.com> wrote:
>Suzanne A Blom <sue...@execpc.com> wrote:
>> Beth Friedman <b...@wavefront.com> wrote:
>>> Your call, of course -- and feel free to stop by Program Prep
>>> (combined Green Room and Program Ops) to say hi. That's where I'll be
>>> spending most of my time.
>
> I'll do that, Beth.
>
>> If you want to be on panels, you can ask Beth for the ones she assigned me
>> since I won't be going. (Beth, did you get my email?)
>
> They warned us at Worldcon, "Don't push to be a panel speaker, it's very
>rude!" :) All the same, I am a satellite physicist and I do have an 'Earth
>as Art' exhibit in the Library of Congress right now, so I can speak
>semi-knowledgeably about sensors or astrogation or something like that, if
>you're desperate to fill a chair with a warm body. :)
Can you bring the pictures as slides? The ones in the WashPost review
were very striking.
> I'll be happy just attending the convention and meeting people. Minicon
>is the closest sci-fi convention to me, so I'm hoping to make this a yearly
>trip.
>
>... ...
>Remus Shepherd <re...@panix.com>
--
Dan Goodman
news:OhURBoEX...@jajones.demon.co.uk:
> In message <Xns93438B20728...@209.98.13.60>, Dan Goodman
> <dsg...@visi.com> writes
>>_Most_ of 3 applies even if you haven't yet had a book published. If
>>you've had a book published, it all applies. Unless your published work
>>isn't available in the dealer's room. In which case, your next lesson is
>>"How to make sure your book is available for sale in a con's dealer's
>>room."
>
> And if it's an ebook, only available as a download?
Then you _download_ it, and print out some sample copies.
Dan Goodman
> On Thursday 20 March 2003 02:50 Dan Goodman wrote:
>
>> "Brenda W. Clough" <clo...@erols.com> wrote in news:3E790F0C.5000402
>> @erols.com:
>
>>> I suggest volunteering to help in the SFWA Suite. This gives you a
>>> reason to be there, earns you the gratitude of many SFWAns, and
>>> allows you to see and be seen.
>>
>> By SFWAns, but not by people who can't yet get into the SFWA Suite.
>
> For instance, because they aren't published writers, or have the bad
> luck not to be American?
SFWA membership is open to non-Americans. Has been from the beginning.
It's now open to more, because English-language work published outside the
US now counts as qualifications.
But the person who buys five hardcover copies and ten paperback copies of
every book by authors he knows may not have the connections to get into the
SFWA Suite.
And the twelve-year-old who's going to be a noted critic in ten years isn't
likely to get in. Nor is the fifteen-year-old who's going to be the
youngest Hugo-winning pro editor ever.
steve miller
<jaj...@suespammers.org> wrote:
>In message <Xns93438B20728...@209.98.13.60>, Dan Goodman
><dsg...@visi.com> writes
>>_Most_ of 3 applies even if you haven't yet had a book published. If
>>you've had a book published, it all applies. Unless your published work
>>isn't available in the dealer's room. In which case, your next lesson is
>>"How to make sure your book is available for sale in a con's dealer's
>>room."
>
>And if it's an ebook, only available as a download?
In which case you (or your publisher, or both) should study the way
Embiid (www.embiid.net) manages to advertise downloadable ebooks.
We'll shortly have a dozen and a half different ebooks from Embiid --
and they make sure people know it. They put out samplers on CD, they
put out samples on paper, and they give away postcards, bookmarks, and
notebooks with cover-art. If you need more details on this, write me
offlist.
Steve
Lee & Miller's The Tomorrow Log on sale now
see our electronic books at www.embiid.net
Sharon Lee & Steve Miller: www.korval.com
Brenda W. Clough
Tch! It is perfectly easy for any of these persons to get into the SFWA
Suite at Worldcon. All he/she has to do is to find the Suite Czar -- a
SFWA officer should be able to point this person out. (The person for
Torcon is Chris Atack.) Go up to the Czar, or email him at any previous
point in time, and offer to help in the Suite. Offer to help evenings,
commit to a period of time, and SHOW UP. If you can tend bar the Czar
will probably weep on your shoulder. But even the dimmest
twelve-year-old can fetch ice from ice machines, or tidy up cups and
bottles. This is not rocket science, folks.
Dan Goodman
Aha! That's something I'm not likely to do, but it should be useful for
someone.
As they say, the best way to get correct information on Usenet is to state
wrong or incomplete information.
Nicky Browne
> Irina Rempt <ir...@valdyas.org> wrote in message
> news:5956456.V...@calcifer.valdyas.org...
> > On Thursday 20 March 2003 02:50 Dan Goodman wrote:
> >
> > > "Brenda W. Clough" <clo...@erols.com> wrote in news:3E790F0C.5000402
> > > @erols.com:
>
> > >> I suggest volunteering to help in the SFWA Suite. This gives you a
> > >> reason to be there, earns you the gratitude of many SFWAns, and
> > >> allows you to see and be seen.
> > >
> > > By SFWAns, but not by people who can't yet get into the SFWA Suite.
> >
> > For instance, because they aren't published writers, or have the bad
> > luck not to be American?
> >
> recently, I believe you only have to be published in the US, not live
> here.--I mean one of our presidents was living in France at the time.
I think you have to be published by someone the SFWA considers
reputable - there is a list of publishers(?)I was a member ( though
I'm not quite sure why) but because my publisher is not well known in
the US I think there was some correspondence about whether they
counted.
Nicky
Julia Jones
<nailed_...@hotmail.com> writes
>> Goodman <dsg...@visi.com> writes
>>>_Most_ of 3 applies even if you haven't yet had a book
>>>published. If you've had a book published, it all applies.
>>>Unless your published work isn't available in the dealer's
>>>room. In which case, your next lesson is "How to make sure
>>>your book is available for sale in a con's dealer's room."
>>
>> And if it's an ebook, only available as a download?
>
>
What shiny new iBook? Haven't been near an Apple since the IIe. Probably
never will again, unless I get a completely irresistible urge to switch
to *nix. Which is unlikely, as I was brought up on RSTS.
Must ask Roy whether he's thought about his authors selling books at
cons. I'm not the only one on his list who's writing sf smut, maybe I'm
not the only one who does cons.
--
Julia Jones
The suespammers.org mail server is located in California; do not send
unsolicited bulk e-mail or unsolicited commercial e-mail to my suespammers.org
address.
Julia Jones
<che...@starswarmnews.com> writes
>On Thu, 20 Mar 2003 11:22:47 +1100, Julia Jones
><jaj...@suespammers.org> wrote:
>
>>In message <Xns93438B20728...@209.98.13.60>, Dan Goodman
>><dsg...@visi.com> writes
>>>_Most_ of 3 applies even if you haven't yet had a book published. If
>>>you've had a book published, it all applies. Unless your published work
>>>isn't available in the dealer's room. In which case, your next lesson is
>>>"How to make sure your book is available for sale in a con's dealer's
>>>room."
>>
>>And if it's an ebook, only available as a download?
>
>In which case you (or your publisher, or both) should study the way
>Embiid (www.embiid.net) manages to advertise downloadable ebooks.
>We'll shortly have a dozen and a half different ebooks from Embiid --
>and they make sure people know it. They put out samplers on CD, they
>put out samples on paper, and they give away postcards, bookmarks, and
>notebooks with cover-art. If you need more details on this, write me
>offlist.
>
Trouble is, he's a (very) small press erotica publisher who's willing to
take genre material, not an sf publisher. Not big enough to warrant a
run of pressed CDs. No cover art I can lift to do my own giveaways.
It was entertaining doing the flyers for Redemption. This was an
excellent opportunity to push it to a receptive audience, since many of
the attendees were familiar with our fanfiction and would be interested
in a pro novel from us, the book was actually being released the
following weekend, and we already had a sample chapter up on the web. We
just didn't have a finalised title...
Remus Shepherd
> Remus Shepherd <re...@panix.com> wrote:
>> If poor social skills, no network of friends,
>> and a reluctance to attend conventions is going to handicap me, then maybe
>> I should apply my talents to some other field.
> Does one come to mind? I've recently been distancing myself from the
> field of music for exactly this reason. Music is so appallingly
> competitive that pursuing it would mean, to a surprisingly large extent,
> doing music I don't actually like. Also, it would have to mean gigging
> and living on the road- the actual WORK of it tends to mean gigging, on
> the road.
I used to live in the almost-south, and 'gigging' to me brings up
images of barbecue forks and frogs. :)
Funny you should mention music, though. I bought myself a guitar as
a reward for finishing my novel last year. I always wanted to learn the
guitar. Some months later, I've broken a string and have still not managed
to play a single chord correctly. :) I've always thought that I could do
anything if I put my mind to it, but I think music might not be one of my
talents. :) I'm okay on the didgeridoo, though...maybe I should try sax.
> On the subject of cons and socializing and all that- I have a history
> with that which has been very helpful. You may know that I attend some
> other sorts of cons, furry cons, and that I hand-sew costume tails for
> people. I'm not so different from you, but I hit on a strategy that
> works very well indeed:
> Fear nobody, and want to help.
Hmmph. Well, I used to go to furry cons also, but I got kicked out of
the fandom by some charming individuals called Burned Furs. When Steve
Gallacci threatens to shoot you, you know you're not welcome.
And living a life which encourages famous people to threaten to shoot
you is not conducive to a 'fear nobody' attitude. :) But I'll do my
best.
Beth Friedman
<sue...@execpc.com>, <v7k74vj...@corp.supernews.com>, wrote:
>Beth Friedman <b...@wavefront.com> wrote in message
>news:4qpj7v0dvk8ntij24...@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 20 Mar 2003 04:14:00 +0000 (UTC), Remus Shepherd
>> <re...@panix.com>, <b5bf68$hos$1...@reader2.panix.com>, wrote:
>>
>> > This isn't idle curiosity -- I'm going to Minicon in Minnesota on
>> >Easter weekend. I don't know anyone at the convention, and I have no
>idea
>> >what I'm going to *do* there. Probably sit in my room and read when
>there's
>> >no panels going on.
>>
>> One of the best ways to meet people and feel part of the convention is
>> to volunteer. There's lot of need for jobs that don't take much more
>> than warm bodies. And we really appreciate volunteers. Gofer, badger
>> (sitting in front of a door to make sure people entering have badges),
>> and registration are the main places. I generally have more fun at a
>> convention if I'm volunteering.
>>
>> Your call, of course -- and feel free to stop by Program Prep
>> (combined Green Room and Program Ops) to say hi. That's where I'll be
>> spending most of my time.
>>
>If you want to be on panels, you can ask Beth for the ones she assigned me
>since I won't be going. (Beth, did you get my email?)
I did get your e-mail, and I'm sorry you won't be attending. But
honestly, what you suggest isn't practical. We don't assign people to
panels willy-nilly. We're running very late with Minicon panel
assignments, but I would never assume that something that's right for
you is right for Remus (whatever his real name is).
On the other hand, it sounds like he'd be a great addition to science
programming.
--
Beth Friedman
b...@wavefront.com
Beth Friedman
<re...@panix.com>, <b5da8b$5cq$2...@reader2.panix.com>, wrote:
>Suzanne A Blom <sue...@execpc.com> wrote:
>> Beth Friedman <b...@wavefront.com> wrote:
>>> Your call, of course -- and feel free to stop by Program Prep
>>> (combined Green Room and Program Ops) to say hi. That's where I'll be
>>> spending most of my time.
>
> I'll do that, Beth.
>
>> If you want to be on panels, you can ask Beth for the ones she assigned me
>> since I won't be going. (Beth, did you get my email?)
>
> They warned us at Worldcon, "Don't push to be a panel speaker, it's very
>rude!" :)
That's especially true at Worldcon. But there's a difference between
pushing (especially if your prime credential is that you're an
unpublished writer) and saying "I'm knowledgeable in these particular
areas, and would be happy to be on programming relating to them."
>All the same, I am a satellite physicist and I do have an 'Earth
>as Art' exhibit in the Library of Congress right now, so I can speak
>semi-knowledgeably about sensors or astrogation or something like that, if
>you're desperate to fill a chair with a warm body. :)
Desperate, no -- but it sounds like you'd be a great addition for our
science programming. Send me e-mail with the name you'll be attending
the convention under?
> I'll be happy just attending the convention and meeting people. Minicon
>is the closest sci-fi convention to me, so I'm hoping to make this a yearly
>trip.
Glad to hear it.
--
Beth Friedman
b...@wavefront.com
Jonathan L Cunningham
<re...@panix.com> wrote:
> Funny you [Chris Johnson] should mention music, though. I bought myself a guitar as
>a reward for finishing my novel last year. I always wanted to learn the
>guitar. Some months later, I've broken a string and have still not managed
>to play a single chord correctly. :) I've always thought that I could do
>anything if I put my mind to it, but I think music might not be one of my
>talents. :) I'm okay on the didgeridoo, though...maybe I should try sax.
I have a violin very similar to your guitar (broken string :-( ).
I still think that if I practised every day for, oh, say, 300 years, I
could get quite good at it. Maybe even sooner.
But real musical instruments are *loud* and I live in a flat
(apartment). It's not like playing a keyboard[1], where you can
use headphones. Yes, I know (now) you can get mysterious devices for
making a violin quieter -- but "learning the violin" has been
rotated out of my list of things to do, until either (a) I'm less
busy or (b) Hell freezes over, whichever comes first.
Jonathan
[1] I can't play keyboard either. There are lots of instruments I
can't play. All for lack of time to learn them, I'm sure ... :-).
--
(Replace netspam by jlc when appropriate)
Suzanne A Blom
culpa.
Zeborah
> "Julie Pascal" <ju...@pascal.org> wrote in
> news:b5bls...@enews1.newsguy.com:
>
> > I responded to this post. Did I make a mistake and
> > e-mail it to you Dan?
> >
> When Usenet posts show up is unpredictable. For example, I've seen answers
> long before what they were responding to on almost every newsgroup except
> alt.time-travel and alt.sci.time-travel.
They must, unlike the rest of Usenet, have special automation designed
to send posts back or forwards to the correct point in time, in order to
avoid disturbing the temporal flow.
Zeborah
--
http://www.geocities.com/zeborahnz2000
Kangaroo story wordcount: 36022 words
Sharon Lee
<re...@panix.com> wrote:
> I'm going to Minicon in Minnesota on
>Easter weekend. I don't know anyone at the convention, and I have no idea
>what I'm going to *do* there. Probably sit in my room and read when there's
>no panels going on.
Why on earth would you do this to yourself?
I'm fairly shy myself, but it's really not difficult to go to
Ops and stammer out (I stammer when I'm nervous, maybe you don't)
something along the lines of, "Hi, my name's Sharon and this is my
first con. Is there something I can do to help out for an hour or
two?"
Minicon has been going on for a good number of years; it could
be that they have newbie programming -- look for panel items with
topics that sound like "What to do at your first con" -- and they may
have a program that matches an experienced con-goer with a newbie.
Check out the program book, or ask the nice person at registration.