Did anyone see the FAQ?
Michelle Bottorff
newsgroup.
Did it get eaten before it got anywhere, or am I the only one that
missed it?
--
Michelle Bottorff -> Chelle B. -> Shelby
L. Shelby, Writer http://homepage.mac.com/mbottorff/Writing/
Lady Lavender's Filksongs http://www.FreeMars.org/lavender/
Neil Barnes
mbot...@mac.com>:
> I posted the faq, but then I didn't see it come back to me over the
> newsgroup.
>
> Did it get eaten before it got anywhere, or am I the only one that
> missed it?
>
Not visible on this server in the last couple of weeks, if that's when you
posted it...
Neil
--
I have a quantum car. Every time I look at the speedometer I get lost...
barnacle
http://www.nailed-barnacle.co.uk
Dorothy J Heydt
Michelle Bottorff <mbot...@mac.com> wrote:
>I posted the faq, but then I didn't see it come back to me over the
>newsgroup.
>
>Did it get eaten before it got anywhere, or am I the only one that
>missed it?
I don't recall having seen it.
Dorothy J. Heydt
Albany, California
djh...@kithrup.com
steve miller
Heydt) wrotD:
>>
>>Did it get eaten before it got anywhere, or am I the only one that
>>missed it?
>
>I don't recall having seen it.
Haven't seen here in Maine...
Steve
Balance of Trade... Locus:"Striking characters, adventure ...great fun..."
Meet Lee & Miller at CONduit,PortConMaine,Trinoc*con, and AlbaCon 2004(US)
Liaden Universe chapbooks & tchotchkes: www.korval.com/srmcat2.htm
Yoon Ha Lee
> On Wed, 19 May 2004 13:40:11 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
> Heydt) wrotD:
> >>
> >>Did it get eaten before it got anywhere, or am I the only one that
> >>missed it?
> >
> >I don't recall having seen it.
>
> Haven't seen here in Maine...
>
> Steve
Nor here in WA...
--
Yoon Ha Lee
http://pegasus.cityofveils.com
Pi = 3, for small values of pi and large values of 3.
Alma Hromic Deckert
<che...@starswarmnews.com> wrote:
>On Wed, 19 May 2004 13:40:11 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
>Heydt) wrotD:
>
>
>>>
>>>Did it get eaten before it got anywhere, or am I the only one that
>>>missed it?
>>
>>I don't recall having seen it.
>
>Haven't seen here in Maine...
nor i here in Washington state...
A.
R. L. Delamancha
Bottorff) wrote:
>I posted the faq, but then I didn't see it come back to me over the
>newsgroup.
>
>Did it get eaten before it got anywhere, or am I the only one that
>missed it?
When did you post it? After you mentioned it to Yoon I looked and the
latest one I could find was 9/28/2003.
R.L.
--
http://www.houseboatonthestyx.com/rasfc/
taboos, 'rules', links to archives & FAQs & crit groups etc
Johnny Tindalos
>>>I don't recall having seen it.
>>
>>Haven't seen here in Maine...
>
> nor i here in Washington state...
>
> A.
It didn't reach London...unless it did and decided to stay here 'coz we've
actually got sunshine for once...
Patricia C. Wrede
news:1gdz9bf.16q0d7p1a1d7moN%mbot...@mac.com...
> I posted the faq, but then I didn't see it come back to me over the
> newsgroup.
>
> Did it get eaten before it got anywhere, or am I the only one that
> missed it?
No show here.
Patricia C. Wrede
Marilee J. Layman
Bottorff) wrote:
>I posted the faq, but then I didn't see it come back to me over the
>newsgroup.
>
>Did it get eaten before it got anywhere, or am I the only one that
>missed it?
I haven't seen it.
--
Marilee J. Layman
Julia Jones
Bottorff <mbot...@mac.com> writes
>I posted the faq, but then I didn't see it come back to me over the
>newsgroup.
>
>Did it get eaten before it got anywhere, or am I the only one that
>missed it?
>
--
Julia Jones
"We are English of Borg. Your language will be assimilated."
joy beeson
I didn't see it on Earthlink.
Joy Beeson in Indiana
--
http://home.earthlink.net/~joybeeson/ -- needlework
http://home.earthlink.net/~beeson_n3f/ -- Writers' Exchange
joy beeson at earthlink dot net
Anna Mazzoldi
No trace in Dublin either, and we _don't_ have sunshine at the moment...
--
Anna Mazzoldi <http://www.livejournal.com/users/aynathie/>
A conclusion is the place where you get tired
of thinking. (Arthur Bloch)
Shelly
Shelly
http://journals.aol.com/shellys555/CyberChocolate/
http://www.livejournal.com/users/prestoimp/
Michelle Bottorff
> I posted the faq, but then I didn't see it come back to me over the
> newsgroup.
>
> Did it get eaten before it got anywhere, or am I the only one that
> missed it?
I just posted it again, and it got eaten again.
I think it's all the weird headers that faqs.org wanted me to put on
that I am obviously screwing up.
One more time with just the basics, and if that doesn't work I'm going
to go wailing off into the sunset.
Michelle Bottorff
Title
Table of Contents
1) Introduction
2) What is on topic in this newsgroup?
What we are here to talk about
Critiquing policy
Announcements, URL sharing, and Advertising policy
3) What posting formats are acceptable?
Quoting
Crossposting
Spelling, Punctuation and Grammar
Courteous conduct
4) How does one start posting to rasfc?
The proper way to not introduce yourself
Red-flag topics that might best be avoided and why
5) What do the group members mean when they say...?
Terminology, Acronyms, Common Abbreviations
6) Where else can I go for help?
other newsgroups
critique groups online and in person
reference librarians
7) What do I need to watch out for?
Regional Specific Advice
Writer Scams
Copyright Issues
8) What do I need to know about the business of writing?
Manuscript Format
Word Count Calculation
Submissions Process
Advances
Agents
9) What legal issues should I be aware of?
Copyright & Assignment of Rights
Trademarks
10) Miscellaneous Questions
11) Additional resources (our links section)
Writer's Resources
Netiquette
Acronyms and Abbreviations Listings
Appendix A: FAQ Technicalities
Appendix B: Newsgroup Charter
1. INTRODUCTION
This FAQ will be written by Michelle Bottorff based on comments and
suggestions from various members of the group, and is maintained, and
posted by Michelle Bottorff (mbot...@mac.com). The general purpose of
the FAQ is to inform newcomers and to serve as repository for useful
information.
This FAQ is in the process of being rewritten, and has not been
copy-edited yet, please forgive any spelling errors and typos you may
find. If you have any comments, questions or contributions, please post
them in the newsgroup or send them to the FAQ maintainer (see above). A
webpage following the discussion of what should and what should not end
up in this FAQ can be found at
http://www.stanford.edu/~bmoses/rasfc/rasfc-faq.html.
2. WHAT IS ON TOPIC IN THIS NEWSGROUP?
What We Are Here To Talk About:
This group is for the discussion of the writing of speculative
fiction, (hereafter shortened to "sf"), or in other words fantasy and
science-fiction. The writing of any work of another genre that has
strong fantasy and/or science fictional aspects will probably also be
considered on topic.
Appropriate topics of discussion include the process and details of
developing settings (world-building), the business of selling the stuff
once it's written, the physical environment in which one writes and how
it effects one's writing, and, of course, the writing process itself.
The posting of actual sf works is NOT on topic. (see Critiquing Policy
below.)
Sometimes topics are introduced that seem insufficiently sfnal in
nature or that would be better addressed in another newsgroup, in which
case it is commonly requested that the discussion be moved elsewhere
(and not everyone who makes the request will do so politely). If you
are not familiar with the group, please check section 6 "Where else do I
go for help?" before posting, to make certain this is the right place
for your query/comment. Also read Section 4. "How does one start
posting to rasfc?"
Critiquing Policy:
This is a discussion group, not a publication venue or a critiquing
group. However it is difficult to discuss writing in detail without the
posting of illustrative examples and it is hard to discuss the cures for
a problem unless we understand what the problem is. Short examples (two
or three paragraphs) of your own composition may be posted freely as
part of a discussion of writing technique. (We frequently see, for
example, story beginnings posted with a "does this catch your interest
or not?" or an interior paragraph or two with a "does this sound too
much like an info-dump, how else could I convey this information?" This
sort of posting is quite welcome.)
It is also allowable to post not more than 500 words worth of
something for general critique if they are posted under a subject header
that begins with "CRIT'. These works must be "in progress". If you are
not intending to change them based on the comments you receive, do not
post them here. Even then it is strongly recommend that you find
another source of critiques. There are many online and in person
critique groups available. This subject is discussed in more depth in
Section 6.
Announcements, URL sharing, and Advertising policy:
Officially all advertisements are off topic. Be warned,
"advertisement" also includes postings saying "I just wrote this book,
it's available at [url] go check it out." Anything that is posted with
the intent to get people to go look at a particular website, or just to
spend time on the posters behalf without a commensurate offer of
recompense is treading on dangerous ground. Only following specific
types of "ads" are ever welcome here.
A) Requests for manuscripts from venues that pay professional
rates. Make sure the actual rates offered are included in the
advertisement.
B) Rare public service announcements posted by people who are very
familiar with the group and know that what they are posting will be
considered useful and relevant.
C) Notices of the publication of works that were discussed in the
group by their author *as they were being written*.
If an ad, announcement or URL posting does not meet one of these three
criteria, it will be treated with contempt, and may result in a
complaint to the poster's ISP.
3. WHAT POSTING FORMATS ARE ACCEPTABLE?
The posting conventions of this group are as follows:
Use only ASCII, no MIME or HTML. Quote the *relevant portion* of
the text you are replying to, and place your comments BENEATH the quoted
section. If what you are replying to is long, snip out unnecessary
portions of the quoted text, and interleave your own replies between the
quoted sections. Try to leave the attribution headers intact, so that
people will know who said what in your quote portions.
If you wish to discuss something in more than one newsgroup, please
post separate messages to each group instead of "cross-posting" by
sending the same message to more than one group at a time. When
replying to a message that has been posted to more than one group,
please remove all groups from the posting header except the one you are
in, or the one that your reply would be most relevant to.
Try to always use proper spelling, punctuation and grammar. It
makes your postings easier to read and sets a good example. Keep in mind
that many group members speak English as a second (or third or fifth)
language. It also makes a better impression on the professional writers
and editors that participate here.
Please observe this and other 'netiquette' conventions and be
courteous and considerate in your conduct. If you are not familiar with
proper net etiquette and conventions, we will be providing a list of
netiquette resources in Section 11. "Additional Resources."
4. HOW DOES ONE START POSTING TO RASFC?
The accepted custom for joining in the discussion is to simply start
contributing to one of the threads already in progress. If you have an
experience to share that is relevant to something other people are
talking about, share it. If you are having a problem with something you
are writing, ask us a question about it. If you have advice to give or
information about something under discussion, tell us. Introductory
messages telling us your name and background are not required.
It should perhaps be noted, however, that there are a few hot topics
that are not really good ways to start yourself off.
If you share a new "rule" of writing you have just discovered, or
suggest that something that works for you will obviously work for
someone else, you will have pointed Kipling quotations jabbed in your
general direction. "There are nine and sixty ways of constructing
tribal lays, And every single one of them is right!." ( see "In The
Neolithic Age" at:
http://www.poetryloverspage.com/poets/kipling/kipling_ind.html ) It is
safer to say something on the order of "this technique may be
helpful...", or even "this technique was helpful to me..."
If you say that you have just written a great book and it is
available to be read at such-and-such a location, you will likely be
ignored, and possibly even flamed. (See "Announcements, URL sharing,
and Advertising policy" above.)
If you use the term sci-fi you will start a long argument over
whether or not this term is derogatory and demeaning. The short form
'sf' is much safer, if somewhat ambiguous, and writing "science fiction"
out the long way always works.
Although it is allowable to start out by posting something under a
CRIT header, you will usually get more responses to such a posting if
you have been around for a while and people recognize your name.
Also, please remember, if you ask a question and you are told to go
elsewhere for the answer, it isn't because we don't want to be helpful,
but because we think there are sometimes better places to find answers
than rasfc, even when the question itself is on topic.
5. WHAT DO THE GROUP MEMBERS MEAN WHEN THEY SAY...?
If you are not familiar with general usenet terminology and common
acronyms, please check the links in section 11. This listing only
includes terms common here, but relatively uncommon elsewhere. To save
space, I have removed all referents to group in-jokes, however I am
collecting these and hope to get them up on a web-page (after the FAQ
itself is completed.)
AYKB: As you know, Bob. A reference to the technique of passing on
background information to the reader by having a character tell another
character something he already knows. This is a part of the Turkey City
Lexicon, (see TCL below.)
BIC: Butt in chair. Also sometimes lengthened to "Butt in chair,
fingers on keyboard." This is a frequently recommended method for
getting past a variety of writing problems. Sometimes you just have to
roll up your sleeves and get to work.
cat-vacuuming: An activity that pretends to be useful, but is actually
being done so that you can avoid writing.
cinquenta: A story that is exactly 50 words long. At the time of this
writing, cinquentas by rasfc participants are being collected at
www.nbarnes.easynet.co.uk/50 If you wish any of your cinquentas to be
included in this collection email them to Neil Barnes at
nailed_...@hotmail.com
EFP: Extruded Fantasy Product. This generally refers to highly
derivative fantasy epics.
Eye of Argon: A story so badly and yet boldly written that it stands as
a classic. Eye of Argon reading sessions are occasionally held at sf
conventions, with the rule that you can only read for as long as you can
keep from laughing. Available online at:
http://www.dcs.gla.ac.uk/SF-Archives/Misc/Eye_Of_The_Argon and
http://www.wulfarchives.com/eyeintro.html
IWriSloMo: International Write Something Month, an alternate to
NaNoWriMo (see below) for those who think that slower is sometimes
better. http://iwrislomo.blogspot.com/
incluing: A term coined by Jo Walton, referring to the process of
scattering background information and other hints throughout the text,
rather than placing it all together in a lump. (see info-dumping
below.)
info-dumping: Writing a large segment of expository information on
historical background, technology, or other aspects of the setting,
rather than conveying the same information by using scattered
references. (See incluing, above.)
McGuffin: A term coined by Alfred Hitchcock, referring to something
that is central to the plot, and motivating to the characters, but
doesn't actually mean anything in and of itself. The quintessential
example is the Maltese Falcon.
mode: A term referring to the overall character or personality of a
story. Some writers come up with a mode for their story first, and
choose a narrative voice, structure and mood to match. Other writers
start with the narrative voice, structure, and mood, and end up with an
overall mode. This is another of Jo Walton's terms, and she says the
definition here isn't quite right. A google search of the term will
reveal extensive discussion on how to define it.
NaNoWriMo: National Novel Writing Month, which encourages
aspiring writers to take part by attempting to write a 50 000 word novel
in the month of November. http://www.nanowrimo.org
POV: Point of View, a technical writing term referring to the apparent
position of the narrator in relation to the story he is telling.
Stet: let it stand, used to mark passages in the manuscript that the
line editor wants to change, or that you think the line editor will want
to change, such as words spelled wrong on purpose.
TCL: Turkey City Lexicon, a compendium of terminology compiled by the
critique group "Turkey City". Opinions about the usefulness of this
lexicon vary widely. Some rasfc regulars find its overall tone snide
and feel that it dismisses techniques that can be used effectively in
the right circumstances, and others think that as a list of "common
errors" it can be most helpful in evaluating manuscripts.
http://www.sfwa.org/writing/turkeycity.html
WIP: Work in Progress (WIE: work in editing, WIS: Work in Submission),
a short hand way of referring to one's current writing project.
world-building: This is the process of creating new worlds for your
stories to be set in. Really elaborate world-building occasionally gets
in the way of actually producing the stories themselves. (See
cat-vacuuming, above)
6) WHERE ELSE CAN I GO FOR HELP?
Other newsgroups:
rec.arts.sf.written For discussion of books that have been
published already (and thus are off topic here)
rec.arts.sf.science For all your science fiction related science
questions.
soc.history.war.misc For military history questions
soc.history.what-if For alternate history discussion and advice
soc.history.medieval For questions about medieval times (!)
rec.equestrian For horse related questions
misc.writing For general questions pertaining to writing
(!)
misc.writing.moderated A more restrained version of misc.writing
(!) These groups are subject to frequent flame-wars. Be wary.
Other resources online:
For imaginary languages, Richard Kennaway's webpage: 'Some Internet
resources relating to constructed
languages at http://www.sys.uea.ac.uk/~jrk/conlang.html
****I hope to eventually include more links here/and or in Section
11 when it is written.****
Critique groups online and in person:
Critique groups are a useful tool in improving your writing. But
you need to find a group that suits your needs, because a group that is
helpful to one writer can be a waste of time, or even damaging to
another writer. If participating in any group seems to make you write
less often and enjoy it less, that probably isn't the right group for
you.
To find a writer's group local to you try asking at the local book
stores, libraries and sf fan clubs. Go to local conventions and ask
around. Most large metropolitan areas will have a writers group for
science fiction and fantasy writers, but in less populated areas there
may only be general writer's groups, or even none at all. Some sf
writers find that they can work well in a general group, but others find
that all the other participants respond to their work with total
bewilderment, and can't find any useful advice to give.
Another source of critiques is to join an online group. The
various groups have different formats and policies. The one totally
vital thing to keep in mind is that any writing posted to a public forum
is considered published, so all legitimate groups are private and
require that you sign up. Here are a few of the bigger, better known
ones that you can try.
http://critters.org
http://www.hatrack.com
http://www.hollylisle.com
http://sff.onlinewritingworkshop.com/ (yearly subscription required)
http://www.sfnovelist.com/ (for hard science fiction novelists, yearly
subscription required)
Reference librarians:
Many large libraries will have a reference librarian on staff that
can help answer your research questions. If you are not local to such a
library you can still make use of these resources by contacting such a
librarian via mail, or you can try the stumpers mailing list which is
primarily for library employees faced with questions they can't answer
from their own resources.
To make use of the Stumpers list, simply send your question via
email to: Stump...@listserv.dom.edu If you are not a subscriber, your
message will still be answered, only with a slight delay for
authorization. Make the subject line of your email descriptive and
precede it with a question mark. Something like "How many lefthanded
policemen are there in Chile?" is what's wanted, rather than something
vague like "Question about South America". Include in the body a
description of where you've tried to find the information, and what you
already know about the topic. This saves responders from wasted
efforts. (Information on Stumpers provided by Dan Goodman)
There are a wealth of resources available on the internet. Learning to
use websearch engines will help you make good use of this material.
7) WHAT DO I NEED TO WATCH OUT FOR?
Regional Specific Advice:
No matter how well intentioned and no matter how expert the advice
you are given, it's not likely to be good advice if it applies to the
publishing industry in another country, or if it applies to a different
segment of the publishing industry. There are participants in this
group from all over the globe; always verify where, what and whom people
are talking about, before deciding to follow advice that might not apply
to you. If you want to know about science fiction publishers in the UK,
don't read up on mainstream publishers in the US and think the same
rules will apply.
Writer Scams:
There are nasty people out there who prey on innocent young
writers, (and even, occasionally, not-so-innocent older writers.)
Beware of anyone who is "particularly eager to work with new writers".
Beware of any editor who offers to "doctor" your manuscript for a fee.
Beware of any "agent" who goes out looking for clients. Beware any
publisher who asks you for money. In short, in real publishing money
flows *to* the writer, not from the writer. For more complete details
on what to watch out for, try the Science Fiction and Fantasy Writers of
America's "Writers Beware" pages at http://www.sfwa.org/Beware/
Copyright Issues:
There is still a lot of confusion over how copyrights apply to
electronic mediums. Never assume that because something is freely
available online that you have the right to copy it or distribute it.
However, if you post your own material to the web, or in an open forum,
many publishing houses will consider that a "publication" and you have
therefore just used up your "first publication" rights to that material,
and you may find it very difficult to sell it later on, so be careful
about what you yourself make available to the world. For more
information on Copyrights see Section 9.
8) WHAT DO I NEED TO KNOW ABOUT THE BUSINESS END OF WRITING?
****The information I was supposed to be working from for this section
was scattered all over, and I'm sure I missed stuff****
Manuscript Format:
Most of the publishing world still runs on paper. Do not send
electronic submissions to any publication unless their writer's
guidelines specifically state that they accept electronic submissions.
There is no industry wide standard format for electronic submissions
yet, so the same writer's guidelines that say they accept electronic
submissions, should also indicate which formats are acceptable. Follow
those guidelines precisely.
Hardcopy (paper) submissions are standardized, and to use anything
other than the standard format will make you look unprofessional. Even
though the rules seem arbitrary there are reasons for every one of them.
Use black ink and a non-proportional "typewriter" font. (12pt
Courier recommended.)
Use white bond paper. US "letter" size to North American
markets, and A4 for most other markets. Most publishers can handle the
other standard size of paper, but it is occationally reccomended that if
you are sending A4 mansuscripts to North America you make a larger
margin at the bottom so that your manuscript can be copied onto the
smaller US paper size.
Set your margins to 1 inch (2.5 cm) on the top bottom and sides.
The main body of text should be left justified and double
spaced.
Indent paragraphs by five spaces. Do not leave a blank line
between paragraphs (other than the one that gets there naturally as a
result of double-spacing).
Indicate scene breaks with a blank line, then a centered '*' or
'#' and then another blank line.
Any text that you intend to be in italics, should be underlined
in the manuscript. To indicate other formatting...
****couldn't find the bit where people were explaining this bit, how did
it work again, double underline and make a note in the margin?****
On the first page of the manuscript, your name, address, and
optionally a phone number or email address should be in the upper left
corner, and the word count in the upper right. The story's title is
centered in the middle of the page, with the byline (by Wouldbe Writer)
centered on the line below. The main text starts two lines below that.
On every other page of the manuscript your last name, the story
title (or an abbreviation of it, if it is long), and the page number
should be in the upper right corner.
Do not staple or permanently bind the manuscript pages together in
any way. You may include a removable clip, if you desire.
Do not include on the manuscript itself a copyright notice or a
statement of the rights being offered when submitting to US sf
publishers.
If you do not want the manuscript returned to you, write
"DISPOSABLE" on the title page.
****where should I send people to find out more?****
Word Count Calculation:
The publishing industry is mostly interested in the amount of space
the story takes up, rather than the actual number of words. If you are
going to plug in the word count from your word processor, round it off
to the nearest hundred for short stories, and the nearest thousand for
novels.
If you use standard manuscript format you can often estimate
wordage based on your page count.
****For more information see? Personally, I always wondered why the
editors didn't just check the page number of the last page, if that was
what they were really after. ****
Submissions Process:
1) Finish the story. Only previously published writers can sell
an incomplete story. However, multi-volume stories can often be sold on
the strength of the first volume, so you don't have to finish the entire
series to sell it.
2) Do market research to determine which houses/imprints publish
the same kind of story you have just written. (Even if your writing is
off the wall and unique, you still need to discover which houses publish
off the wall and unique.) The best way to do this is usually to browse
the bookstores. When you find books that are similar to yours make a
note of the publisher, and then check the author's acknowledgments page
-- sometimes they thank their editors or agents, in which case you
should make a note of those names. You can also find out which editors
buy which kinds of books from a study of industry magazines such as
_Locus_ and _Science Fiction Chronicle_. Make a list for future
reference of everyone you identified as a potential market.
3) Obtain the writer's guidelines for the markets you have
identified. Often they can be found on the the publisher's website, or
you can write to the publishing house for them. The editorial
addresses of publishing houses can be found in _The Literary
Marketplace_ (often found in the reference section of libraries), and in
_Writer's Market_. The writers' guidelines will tell you whether your
next step is to send a query letter (step 4), a portion and outline
(step 5), or the complete manuscript (step 6). If the guidelines say
"no unsolicited submissions", you can still send a query letter. If it
says "no un-agented submissions, make a note, and (assuming you don't
have an agent) cross them off your list. (More information on agents
can be found below.)
4) Write and send a query letter.
A query letter is one page long.
Start out, if at all possible, by addressing the letter to a
specific editor that you know is interested in the kind of story you
have written.
Tell the editor the title and wordage of your story, and possibly
the genre/subgenre.
Then in three paragraphs or less describe the story in such a way
that it will sound interesting to the editor without: praising it,
sounding like a back-cover blurb, or keeping the surprise ending secret.
(Sound impossible? My commiserations. Writing queries is hard, for
more advice on how to do a good job of it, try ***need recommended books
and urls***).
Next mention any relevant experience you have, writing or
otherwise. If you have published professionally, mention either the
latest 2-3 sales, or the 2-3 most relevant sales. If you have a degree
in a subject, or work professionally in an industry that is directly
relevant to the book, mention that. If you are a graduate of Clarion
you can mention that, but do not mention any other writing courses or
workshops you have taken. Do not list your hobbies, family members or
pets.
Included a SASE (self-addressed stamped envelope) for their reply.
You may send this letter out simultaneously to as many editors as
you desire, and they will generally get back to you in two weeks to
three months. If an editor responds saying you may send them a portion
and outline or manuscript, continue on to step 5 or 6.
If an editor says "no thanks" cross them off your list for this
particular story, but you can still try again with your next one.
If two editors respond at the same time pick one to send your story
to first. You may not send a manuscript (or even part of a manuscript)
to more than one editor at a time, unless the writers' guidelines for
both editors said that they accept "simultaneous submissions". Most sf
publishers do not.
5) Prepare and submit a portion and outline, also called the three
chapters and a synopsis, and other similar variations.
The editor (unless he specifically stated otherwise) wants the
first part of the book. Three chapters is an estimate, if you write
exceptionally long or exceptionally short chapters, you will need to
adjust. Try send about the first 10 000 words. ****Does 10 000 sound
right?****
There is no set format for a synopsis or an outline. The basic
idea is that the editor has read the first bit of the the book, and has
an idea of your style, and your ability to grab the reader, and now they
want to know if the rest of the book is likely to live up to that
promise. Structure it in a manner that suits your story, explain the
basic plot twists, and character growth, and anything else relevant.
The synopsis/outline should cover the entire book, including the
portion you are submitting.
Use a full sized envelope so that you do not need to fold anything.
(Manuscripts with creases are harder to read.) Do not use an envelope
with little metal tabs, because they are hard on fingers and get caught
in mail sorting machines.
If at all possible, address the submission to a specific editor
that you know is interested in this kind of book.
Include an SASE, and a brief cover letter which includes the title
and wordage of the book, and any relevant experience (see query letters
above). If the portion and outline are being sent because of a positive
response to a query letter, say so in the cover letter, (if the positive
response was not a recent one, say when it was,) and put the magic words
"solicited material" on the envelope.
Do not send the portion and outline to two editors at once unless
they have both indicated that they don't mind. (see above)
Editors will take from two weeks to a year to respond. If you
haven't heard from an editor in four months it is generally allowable to
send a self addressed stamped postcard saying "I sent you my manuscript
4 months ago and haven't heard from you since. Did you A)never get it?,
B)send it back already, or C)are still looking at it. Some editors
don't mind you phoning them, check their writer's guidelines to see.
If there is no reply to the postcard and the second postcard sent a
month or two later, you may wish to withdraw your submission. This is
done by sending a polite letter to the editor in question saying that
you are withdrawing your submission, and the title of the book and the
date you sent it to them. Don't get snide or angry, you may someday
want to send this editor a different manuscript.
Once the submission has been withdrawn (or is rejected) you may
send the portion and outline to a different publisher.
6) Send the complete manuscript.
This is just like sending a portion and outline, except that it
tends to be bulkier.
You can send it in a manuscript box, or in an oversized envelope
with cardboard stiffeners to prevent crumpled corners and unwanted
folding. (Elastic bands to hold everything together are optional, if
the envelope is a good enough fit they shouldn't be needed.) If you
want the manuscript returned, you need to include another oversized self
addressed stamped envelope (this is handy, even if you are using a
manuscript box.) If the manuscript is disposable, include an ordinary
sized SASE for the editor's response.
Do not over-wrap the manuscript, editors really hate having to
search for a pair of scissors to cut through layers of packing tape and
so forth.
7) What if they say yes?
The editor will probably ask for the name of your agent.
Getting an agent to negotiate your contracts for you is considered a
good idea. (More on agents below.)
The editor will probably also ask for revisions. Unless everything
on that list is something you agree wholeheartedly about, you should
discuss these with your editor.
You make the changes that you and your editor have agreed upon.
And then send in a copy (or two or three) of the revised manuscript.
When sending in the final copy it can be useful to include a style
sheet -- this indicates the variations that you were attempting to stick
to, 'grey' rather than 'gray', or whatever. List these in alphabetical
order for ease of use.
You may have a chance to review the copy-edited draft. This is
where you get to use "STET" or 'let it stand', and you may use it so
much that you will want a stamp.
***isn't there one last step -- the galleys?***
It can take up to two years from having the editor say yes,
before you actually get to see your book in print.
Advances:
And advance is the upfront money you get from selling a book. The
amount of advance recieved varies widely based on how famous an author
is, how much the editor liked the manuscript, and so forth. It is
difficult to give a "likely amount": simply assume it won't be enough to
pay you back for the time and effort that you put into the book in the
first place.
Advances are only one of the three kinds of money it is possible to
make from selling books. After your book is published, it will begin to
earn royalties. The more copies are bought, the more royalties it
earns. After it has earned sufficient royalties to cover the cost of
the advance (if it ever does,) then you will start recieving royalty
payments. Odd bits of money may occationally appear from the sale of
"subsiduary rights." Added all together it is still unlikely that the
money will add up to enough to pay you back for the time and effort that
you put into the book. Writers are one of the most notoriously
underpaid segments of the workforce.
Agents:
The job of the agent is to negotiate your contracts. Agents will
also market books for you (but not your short stories, you have to
market those yourself) but that is not their primary purpose. Therefore
you do not need to have an agent to sell a book. In fact it is
demonstratively easier to get an agent after you have already sold at
least one book.
There are, however, some markets that are closed to un-agented
authors.
If you want to get an agent before you have sold any books, the
technique is very similar to the one described in the section on the
submission process, simply replace the word "editor" with agent.
**** Double check me on this, people, I haven't gone agent shopping yet.
ARE there any differences? What about sim-subs, are agents okay with
those? ****
If you have just sold a book, you will probably want an agent in a
hurry, so you can try the sped up version, where you call all the agents
on your list, explain to them that you have just sold a book, what the
book was about and who you sold it to. This will hopefully get several
interested responses.
****Do they ask you to mail them a manuscript, or do they just take you
as is. What about agent contracts?***
WARNING! Beware of any agent who asks you for money. Agents are
supposed to take a proportion (usually 10-15%) of the money you get from
the publisher, and by getting you better contracts, they actually end up
paying for themselves. Any agent who asks you for money may be a scam
artist. (see Section 7).
Alma Hromic Deckert
Bottorff) wrote:
>TABLE OF CONTENTS
>
> Title
> Table of Contents
> 1) Introduction
> 2) What is on topic in this newsgroup?
come back from the general direction of the sunset, michelle! this
time i got it! <G>
A.
Julia Jones
<mbot...@mac.com> writes
>TABLE OF CONTENTS
It got here:-)
Neil Barnes
4t0QLp...@jajones.demon.co.uk>:
>In message <1ge4nk1.12yb0up38ykowN%mbot...@mac.com>, Michelle Bottorff
><mbot...@mac.com> writes
>> TABLE OF CONTENTS
>
>It got here:-)
Hit the BBC server too...
Brian M. Scott
nailed_...@NOSPAMhotmail.com (Neil Barnes) wrote in
<news:c8lc1h$bdg$2...@nntp0.reith.bbc.co.uk> in
rec.arts.sf.composition:
> Julia Jones <julia...@myrealbox.com> wrote in <VJ+
> 4t0QLp...@jajones.demon.co.uk>:
>>In message <1ge4nk1.12yb0up38ykowN%mbot...@mac.com>, Michelle Bottorff
>><mbot...@mac.com> writes
>>> TABLE OF CONTENTS
>>It got here:-)
> Hit the BBC server too...
And news.individual.net.
Brian
Yoon Ha Lee
I got it too! And I never meant to make you head sunset-ward...*guilt*
Jonathan L Cunningham
Bottorff) wrote:
>TABLE OF CONTENTS
Phew! Big, innit?
Did you want constructive comments, too?
It seems mostly to be a fair statement of what I seem to remember
is the consensus, so either you've avoided anything controversial
or I've been brainwashed into believing this version of it ;-).
A few very minor points:
>IWriSloMo: International Write Something Month, an alternate to
>NaNoWriMo (see below) for those who think that slower is sometimes
>better. http://iwrislomo.blogspot.com/
I thought it was "I Write Slowly Month" -- for people who for any
of a zillion reasons are not wildly productive. In any case, there
is an "l" in IWriSloMo but not in "Something", so something is
wrong. (And "Something" is wrong.)
>WIP: Work in Progress (WIE: work in editing, WIS: Work in Submission),
>a short hand way of referring to one's current writing project.
It feels to me like WIR (work in revision) is more common than WIE, or
is WIE referring to accepted manuscripts? WIR means things that have
been finished but are not yet a final draft. I think. Anyway, may be
worth adding WIR to the list.
> To make use of the Stumpers list, simply send your question via
>email to: Stump...@listserv.dom.edu If you are not a subscriber, your
>message will still be answered, only with a slight delay for
>authorization. Make the subject line of your email descriptive and
>precede it with a question mark. Something like "How many lefthanded
>policemen are there in Chile?" is what's wanted, rather than something
I think you mean "end it with" rather than "precede". If you did mean
"precede" (= "begin it with") your example would be:
>precede it with a question mark. Something like "?How many lefthanded
>policemen are there in Chile?" is what's wanted, rather than something
in which case I would expect [Q] rather than "?".
HTH,
Jonathan
--
Use jlc at address, not spam.
Zeborah
> misc.writing For general questions pertaining to writing
> (!)
If you made that "questions about writing" then the (!) would fit on the
same line. :-)
> Any text that you intend to be in italics, should be underlined
> in the manuscript. To indicate other formatting...
>
> ****couldn't find the bit where people were explaining this bit, how did
> it work again, double underline and make a note in the margin?****
I thought it was a wavy underline, but don't quote me.
> The editor (unless he specifically stated otherwise) wants the
> first part of the book. Three chapters is an estimate, if you write
> exceptionally long or exceptionally short chapters, you will need to
> adjust. Try send about the first 10 000 words. ****Does 10 000 sound
> right?****
I've heard 50 pages, which'd be about 12,500 words. Sounds close
enough.
Zeborah
Elizabeth Shack
> TABLE OF CONTENTS
>
> Title
> Table of Contents
> 1) Introduction
> 2) What is on topic in this newsgroup?
The FAQ made it to Google.
Nicola Browne
news:9cee3628.04052...@posting.google.com
>> The FAQ made it to Google.
And it turned up on mailgate.
Nicky
--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG
Helen
<sp...@softluck.plus.com> writes
>
>A few very minor points:
>
>>IWriSloMo: International Write Something Month, an alternate to
>>NaNoWriMo (see below) for those who think that slower is sometimes
>>better. http://iwrislomo.blogspot.com/
>
>I thought it was "I Write Slowly Month" -- for people who for any
>of a zillion reasons are not wildly productive. In any case, there
>is an "l" in IWriSloMo but not in "Something", so something is
>wrong. (And "Something" is wrong.)
>
"International Write Something Month" and "I Write in Slow Motion" (we
went on for much longer than the month of the NaNoWriMo that IWriSloMo
was set up in response to. :-))
Yes, I know there is no "L" in "Something", but that's how I remember it
being interpreted. Unless anyone else can remember any different?
Helen
--
Helen, Gwynedd, Wales *** http://www.baradel.demon.co.uk
Jonathan L Cunningham
Oh, well. I'll take your word for it. It must be a silent "L".
Meph:
L hath no limits, nor is circumscribed in one self place, but where
we are is L. And where L is, there must we ever be.
Fau:
I think L's a fable.
Meph:
Aye, think so still, till experience change thy mind.
Jonathan (here L is) Cunningham
Elizabeth Shack
> I thought it had two accepted expansions of the acronym, namely,
> "International Write Something Month" and "I Write in Slow Motion" (we
> went on for much longer than the month of the NaNoWriMo that IWriSloMo
> was set up in response to. :-))
>
> Yes, I know there is no "L" in "Something", but that's how I remember it
> being interpreted. Unless anyone else can remember any different?
That's what I remember also.
--
Elizabeth Shack eashack at earthlink dot ent
Writing updates at http://www.livejournal.com/users/eashack/
Catja Pafort
> 5. WHAT DO THE GROUP MEMBERS MEAN WHEN THEY SAY...?
<snip the rest of the FAQ>
First off, thanks for taking the time and making the effort!
I'd like to see plotnoodling on the list of terminology.
PLOTNOODLING: the activity of discussing the plots and characterisation
in general terms, often in the form of 'my problem is that..., and...,
but of course that means that he can't-
Oh.
I never realised that. Thanks.'
Catja
Michelle Bottorff
> > To make use of the Stumpers list, simply send your question via
> >email to: Stump...@listserv.dom.edu If you are not a subscriber, your
> >message will still be answered, only with a slight delay for
> >authorization. Make the subject line of your email descriptive and
> >precede it with a question mark. Something like "How many lefthanded
> >policemen are there in Chile?" is what's wanted, rather than something
>
> I think you mean "end it with" rather than "precede". If you did mean
> "precede" (= "begin it with") your example would be:
>
> >precede it with a question mark. Something like "?How many lefthanded
> >policemen are there in Chile?" is what's wanted, rather than something
You are right, there does seem to be a discrepency. This was Dan's
contribution. I have no first-hand knowlege of Stumpers, so I'd want a
verification of where the error actually is before changing it. Dan?
Thank you for you comments!
Michelle Bottorff
> mbot...@mac.com (Michelle Bottorff) wrote>
> > TABLE OF CONTENTS
> >
> > Title
> > Table of Contents
> > 1) Introduction
> > 2) What is on topic in this newsgroup?
>
> The FAQ made it to Google.
Ah, well. More people will probably find it there than will look at
faqs.org anyway right?
Michelle Bottorff
> > quoted sections. Try to leave the attribution headers intact, so that
> > people will know who said what in your quote portions.
>
> *Do* leave the attribution headers intact. That's how we know who you
> think you were talking to.
>
> > If you wish to discuss something in more than one newsgroup, please
> > post separate messages to each group instead of "cross-posting" by
>
> Cross-posting doesn't need quotes.
Noted.
>
> > Writer Scams:
> > There are nasty people out there who prey on innocent young
> > writers, (and even, occasionally, not-so-innocent older writers.)
> > Beware of anyone who is "particularly eager to work with new writers".
> > Beware of any editor who offers to "doctor" your manuscript for a fee.
> > Beware of any "agent" who goes out looking for clients. Beware any
> > publisher who asks you for money. In short, in real publishing money
> > flows *to* the writer, not from the writer.
>
> It would be better to cite this as Yog's Law, since someone googling on
> that will get lots of good info.
Ah, good point! I wasn't aware it was *called* Yog's Law when I wrote
this, but you're right, it's a good search engine term.
Elizabeth Shack
(Michelle Bottorff) wrote:
> Elizabeth Shack <elizabe...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> The FAQ made it to Google.
>
> Ah, well. More people will probably find it there than will look at
> faqs.org anyway right?
Probably. That's where I always look.
--
Elizabeth Shack eashack at earthlink dot ent
http://home.earthlink.net/~eashack
http://www.livejournal.com/users/eashack/
Michelle Bottorff
> <snip the rest of the FAQ>
>
> First off, thanks for taking the time and making the effort!
>
> I'd like to see plotnoodling on the list of terminology.
Okay.
(Looks at definition.... giggles...)
That lst bit isn't a part of what plot noodling *is* though, is it?
What we really need to do is invent a term for how just composing a
question to post here frequently inspires the answer.
Cally Soukup
> Catja Pafort <green...@cix.co.uk> wrote:
>> <snip the rest of the FAQ>
>>
>> First off, thanks for taking the time and making the effort!
>>
>> I'd like to see plotnoodling on the list of terminology.
> Okay.
> (Looks at definition.... giggles...)
> That lst bit isn't a part of what plot noodling *is* though, is it?
> What we really need to do is invent a term for how just composing a
> question to post here frequently inspires the answer.
How about rasfc-whingeing?
--
"I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend
to the death your right to say it." -- Beatrice Hall
Cally Soukup sou...@pobox.com
Joann Zimmerman
mbot...@mac.com says...
> That lst bit isn't a part of what plot noodling *is* though, is it?
>
> What we really need to do is invent a term for how just composing a
> question to post here frequently inspires the answer.
"plot tickling"?
--
"I never understood people who don't have bookshelves."
--George Plimpton
Joann Zimmerman jz...@bellereti.com
Anna Feruglio Dal Dan
> In article <1gea78k.13qefyi1aiwb5sN%mbot...@mac.com>,
> mbot...@mac.com says...
>
> > That lst bit isn't a part of what plot noodling *is* though, is it?
> >
> > What we really need to do is invent a term for how just composing a
> > question to post here frequently inspires the answer.
>
> "plot tickling"?
LOL
--
Anna Feruglio Dal Dan - ada...@spamcop.net - this is a valid address
homepage: http://www.fantascienza.net/sfpeople/elethiomel
English blog: http://annafdd.blogspot.com/
LJ: http://www.livejournal.com/users/annafdd/
Mary K. Kuhner
Michelle Bottorff <mbot...@mac.com> wrote:
>What we really need to do is invent a term for how just composing a
>question to post here frequently inspires the answer.
Programmers call the computer equivalent "confessional debugging."
"Hey, Eric, can you look at this code? I can't understand why
it doesn't--oh! Never mind."
My programming group has a policy of thanking the other person effusively
for their help even if all they did was stand there and look blankly
at your code; because it *does* help, somehow.
Mary Kuhner mkku...@eskimo.com
Boudewijn Rempt
> My programming group has a policy of thanking the other person effusively
> for their help even if all they did was stand there and look blankly
> at your code; because it *does* help, somehow.
With reason, because if debugging by confessional has a disadvantage, it's
that the other person is yanked out of the zone, often, and getting back
takes a disproportionate amount of time.
--
Boudewijn Rempt | http://www.valdyas.org/fading/index.cgi
Jonathan L Cunningham
K. Kuhner) wrote:
I once attended a talk by someone famous[1] who was explaining his
theory that our brains have grown so big that we don't have enough
connections inside them (between the different parts) so that we
use speech (subvocalised or otherwise) as an additional route.
That would explain the effect - as you are explaining the problem,
you hear what you are saying and this feeds the problem into
question-answering bits of your brain, which were previously unaware
you had a problem.
OTOH, I prefer to think that, in order to explain the problem, you
are forced to think about it differently (e.g. just to linearise
it into a sequence of words, if your internal representation is
more like, say, a graph). And it's by thinking about it differently
that you arrive at the explanation.
On the gripping hand, the two alternative explanations might be
equivalent, in some sense.
One thing I can't remember trying, is explaining a problem to
an imaginary companion. I wonder if that works? IIRC, composing
an e-mail message which begins "Can you see anything wrong
with the attached bit of code ... ?" sometimes works even
before you hit "send". (It works more often just *after* you
hit "send".)
Jonathan
[1] Might have been Dennett or Hofstadter or it might have been
someone completely different -- difficult to get the attribution
right, when you don't remember ;-). Anyway, I'm not claiming the
idea, though I wish I could. And I'm not sure, on a scale of 1
to 10, quite how serious he was.
Dorothy J Heydt
It would also explain a common occurrence in folktales. The
main character has just left his beginning situation and has
gotten out into the wild somewhere and has gotten about as far
as he can for the moment. He meets someone else: the figure is
referred to as "the little old man," but it could also be a
little old woman, or an animal. And the LOM says, "My goodness,
what's the matter?" And the main character tells him his whole
story up to now, and the LOM listens sagely and gives him good
advice for proceeding with the next stage of his quest.
And the professor mentioning this (and it's been so long ago I
forget which professor) said this figure represents a person
sitting down and thinking over his situation and coming up with a
solution.
>One thing I can't remember trying, is explaining a problem to
>an imaginary companion. I wonder if that works? IIRC, composing
>an e-mail message which begins "Can you see anything wrong
>with the attached bit of code ... ?" sometimes works even
>before you hit "send". (It works more often just *after* you
>hit "send".)
I understand many people do that.
I sometimes (spending a lot of my time alone these days, after
Hal goes off to work and before Tris wakes up) find myself
explaining things to an imaginary companion, but it's usually
things I already know, like the backstory in Asheron's Call, and
it's just for the pleasure of explaining. Good thing I do it to
the imaginary person and not to a real one, who could get very
quickly bored out of his gourd.
Dorothy J. Heydt
Albany, California
djh...@kithrup.com
R. L.
wrote:
>In article <40b395fa...@usenet.plus.net>,
>Jonathan L Cunningham <sp...@softluck.plus.com> wrote:
>>On 25 May 2004 14:44:58 GMT, mkku...@kingman.gs.washington.edu (Mary
>>K. Kuhner) wrote:
/snip/
In many tales the figure just introduces a new plot thread, usually
giving the hero something apparently unrelated that comes in handy by
coincidence later. In Grimm's "The Crystal Sphere", the journeying hero
happens to meet some dumb giants and steals a magic cap from them. Later
it comes in handy, but the whole incident has nothing to do with his
problem. Often the whole point is that he does a favor for some
apparently powerless being, who thanks him and offers an unspecified
future favor, and the hero laughs and thinks nothing could possibly come
of this.
>And the professor mentioning this (and it's been so long ago I
>forget which professor) said this figure represents a person
>sitting down and thinking over his situation and coming up with a
>solution.
That might fit a subset, such as Cinderella. But even in those, the new
idea usually comes as a surprise, after some non-thinking time.
Cinderella didn't sit down to think, she sat down to cry.
R.L.
Zeborah
> One thing I can't remember trying, is explaining a problem to
> an imaginary companion. I wonder if that works? IIRC, composing
> an e-mail message which begins "Can you see anything wrong
> with the attached bit of code ... ?" sometimes works even
> before you hit "send". (It works more often just *after* you
> hit "send".)
I've done it by email and usually come to the appropriate realisation
somewhere in the middle; then feel obliged to explain it all to my
emailee. At that point I could of course not send the email, but just
in case there's any kind of tricking-the-brain going on, I don't want to
give it a clue for next time.
Zeborah
Michelle Bottorff
> >What we really need to do is invent a term for how just composing a
> >question to post here frequently inspires the answer.
>
> Programmers call the computer equivalent "confessional debugging."
So for us it would be a "confessional noodle"?
Julian Flood
"Jonathan L Cunningham" wrote
>
> I once attended a talk by someone famous[1] who was explaining his
> theory that our brains have grown so big that we don't have enough
> connections inside them (between the different parts) so that we
> use speech (subvocalised or otherwise) as an additional route.
I sometimes watch one half of my brain talk to the other half using hand
signals.
JF
David Langford
I have a copy of that one somewhere. =The Origin of Consciousness in the
Breakdown of Julian Flood=. By some other Julian....
Dave
--
David Langford
ans...@cix.co.uk | http://www.ansible.co.uk/
Latest book: =Different Kinds of Darkness= (collection, Cosmos, 2004)
Jonathan L Cunningham
wrote:
>On Wed, 26 May 2004 14:06:39 +0100, "Julian Flood"
><j...@floodsoopsclimbers.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Jonathan L Cunningham" wrote
>>
>> >
>>> I once attended a talk by someone famous[1] who was explaining his
>>> theory that our brains have grown so big that we don't have enough
>>> connections inside them (between the different parts) so that we
>>> use speech (subvocalised or otherwise) as an additional route.
>>
>>I sometimes watch one half of my brain talk to the other half using hand
>>signals.
>
>I have a copy of that one somewhere. =The Origin of Consciousness in the
>Breakdown of Julian Flood=. By some other Julian....
If you come across it, can I borrow it, please? ;-).
Actually this post is just an excuse to say I met Harry Harrison this
evening (and bought him a beer ;-), I've only got fifteen of his
books but *I got one of his business cards*. -- My only Sad collecting
habit*** is that I collect business cards, and only of people I've met
in RL. ["Met" is interpreted strictly: I have one from someone I spoke
to for about twenty seconds during an elevator (lift) ride. I can't
remember anything about her except she was the guest (being escorted
to a restaurant) of someone else whom I knew just enough so that a
polite greeting was appropriate.*]
Jonathan
[*] A Fellow of the Royal Society, as it happens, so his guest was
probably** someone eminent in some academic field or other. I wonder
who she was? ;-). At least I know who Harry Harrison is :-).
[**] IIRC, she was a Prof. of some description, not a floozy, but I'd
have to find and recognise the business card to see what.
[***] Well, I collect SF books, too, but that's not Sad.
David Langford
Cunningham) wrote:
>Actually this post is just an excuse to say I met Harry Harrison this
>evening (and bought him a beer ;-), I've only got fifteen of his
>books but *I got one of his business cards*.
I feel touched by the fickle finger of fate, as insecurely attached to the
long arm of coincidence -- had a letter from Harry this morning, enclosing
a newspaper interview (apparently part of a series on mildly unusual
occupations) in which a pest-controller explains that the best way to relax
in his job is to read Stephen Donaldson and Michael Moorcock. Naturally
Harry is rushing a copy to the latter....
Kai Henningsen
> In article <1gea78k.13qefyi1aiwb5sN%mbot...@mac.com>,
> Michelle Bottorff <mbot...@mac.com> wrote:
>
> >What we really need to do is invent a term for how just composing a
> >question to post here frequently inspires the answer.
>
> Programmers call the computer equivalent "confessional debugging."
We do? While the concept is well-known, I've never heard that term before.
> "Hey, Eric, can you look at this code? I can't understand why
> it doesn't--oh! Never mind."
>
> My programming group has a policy of thanking the other person effusively
> for their help even if all they did was stand there and look blankly
> at your code; because it *does* help, somehow.
That's because your description is too short. It involves actually
explaining the code - and converting the code into an explanation gives
you another way to look at the problem.
Kai
--
http://www.westfalen.de/private/khms/
"... by God I *KNOW* what this network is for, and you can't have it."
- Russ Allbery (r...@stanford.edu)