How not to fix a story
Michelle Bottorff
my methods, or if she meant Bill was supposed to start a new thread
about his stories.
Maybe we should do both?
Anyway the only thing I could think of to blather about that has
anything to do with writing methods, is why I am not taking the advice
of the only person to have (so far) given me feedback on the ending of
Scent of Spring.
So WARNING. SPOILER.
I will be deconstructing my graphic novel Scent of Spring in this post.
If you were planning to read and comment on it for me, you might want to
do that before reading what follows.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
My one commenter thinks the end of the story is "too easy", that it
lacks conflict.
His suggested cure is to bring back a suitor who was rejected early in
the story, and have him create a rumpus. This is a fascinating
suggestion more in what it implies that this reader never managed to
grok about my story than in it's actual utility.
Scent of Spring is a romance, and having rival suitor is a fairly good
way to create tension in a romance... but only if the rival is a
plausible threat to the relationship between the main two in some way.
And there are generally only two ways that a rival can be a threat,
either the heroine could concievably choose him instead, or he has the
power to prevent the union in some physical way. (In Black Flag my
rival has BOTH of those covered. Bwahahaha!)
My Scent of Spring heroine, however, not only isn't interested in this
character, she was *never* interested in this character. Not even
slightly. On the other hand, he's got a great physique, and if we
wanted someone to burst in and attempt to kidnap her in the mistaken
belief that he was rescuing her and thus add some pow and pizzaz to the
ending, I guess he would be as good a choice as any.
That's would be more a matter of turning it into a different story than
fixing the one I have, though. I'm not that desperate yet.
So what will I do instead?
Well, I don't exactly know yet.
Lets go back to the stated problem.
The commenter thinks that the ending is too easy, and lacks conflict.
This isn't a surprise to me, because whenever I step back and squint at
the darn thing sideways, I can't *see* any conflict. He wants to marry
her, she finds him attractive, and there are no physical barriers to the
union.
But when I read it, the story doesn't feel like it lacks emotional
impact. I may not see conflict, but I certainly *feel* tension, its
just that the tension is entirely based on what is happening *inside*
the characters.
So I'm assuming that the proper fix isn't to go out looking for an
external conflict, it's to figure out how to show the internal conflict
that is already there more clearly.
And, um, I'd really like to get back some more reader comments before I
start on that, because I want to know where the one commenter I've got
rates on the cluelessness scale.
His perception is that my heroine is a basically weak character who goes
wherever he suitors push her.
I think my character is a strong character -- generally complaisant, but
only willing to go only so far before she digs in her heels -- and at
that point nothing can move her. True, she is not particularly active.
She doesn't go out looking for anything. She is, in fact, very content
with what she has, and that is the key source of her strength. She
doesn't need to go out and find happiness, because she perfectly capable
of growing her own. But, as is so often the case, her great strength is
also a kind of a weakness. When removed from the santuary she builds
herself she tends to feel lost and uncomfortable. She can face having
to build anew -- building the sanctuary is part of the joy, but she
doesn't want face constantly dealing with the outside.
When I read the story, I feel lots of tension at the end, because even
though I know that my couple ends up together, for the characters in
that moment it is by no means an assured thing. The decision to marry
the hero is a very difficult decision for the heroine to make. His
situation is such that living with him will force her to continually go
outside of her comfort zone, and although my hero is capable and
protective and will certainly ease her way, she cannot bring her herself
to trust that he will always be there to lean on. In order to make her
decision in his favor, she has to be willing to face a possible future
where she is dealing with his world, by herself.
As for my masterful hero, he has to face the fact that he can't DO
anything. He can't control, arrange, direct or even wheedle anymore.
This is her decision to make, and the more he tries to influence her
decision, the worse he hurts his own case. He is brought to confront
his own weaknesses and limitations, and then he's forced to wait, and he
genuinely doesn't know what the answer will be.
This is not the kind of conflict/tension I'm used to working with, but
that doesn't mean it can't be made to work.
My theory is that the main problem with how the story is currently being
told, is that too much of the above material is getting stated too late
in the story for the reader to have time to absorb and internalize it,
and I need to specifically point out some of this stuff earlier.
But I still need to figure out what exactly needs to be said, and where
I can fit it in. :rueful:
I'm hoping that I will eventually get more feedback, and that it will
help clarify what exactly is already in place, what is there but comes
to late to have the proper impact, and what is genuinely missing.
Bill Swears
> I don't know if Brenda meant I was supposed to start a new thread about
> my methods, or if she meant Bill was supposed to start a new thread
> about his stories.
>
> Maybe we should do both?
>
>
> Anyway the only thing I could think of to blather about that has
> anything to do with writing methods, is why I am not taking the advice
> of the only person to have (so far) given me feedback on the ending of
> Scent of Spring.
I went back and made my comments at end-page, finally. This thread cued
me up to do that. I'm uncertain whether to bring them over here, or
just let you read them there and be done.
Bill
Suzanne Blom
"Bill Swears" <wsw...@gci.net> wrote in message
news:l5-dncdXEbP6T7LW...@posted.mtasolutions...
David Friedman
mbot...@lshelby.com (Michelle Bottorff) wrote:
...
> My one commenter thinks the end of the story is "too easy", that it
> lacks conflict.
I had the problem of insufficient tension with the ending of _Harald_.
I'm not sure how relevant my solution to that problem is to your very
different story, but I'll describe it in the hope it may be of some use.
The final chunk of my novel is a military campaign, in which a large
imperial army, commanded by the Emperor, is invading the territory of
Harald's ally. This follows several smaller scale invasions which were
successfully repelled or defeated earlier in the story. At least one
perceptive commenter on a draft of the novel thought the section lacked
tension, because it was too obvious that the good guys were going to win.
In that draft, the story sequence was:
Imperial army does something successful
Harald and allies do something successful in response
repeat several times until imperial army is besieging ally's capital and
nearby stronghold.
Harald and allies do something clever that forces them to lift the siege
and go home
more back and forth until imperial army is trapped and forced to
surrender.
I rewrote:
Imperial army does something competent and successful. Things looking a
little bad for good guys.
Imperial army does something else competent and successful. Things
looking a little worse for good guys.
Repeat a few times.
Imperial army besieges capital and stronghold.
Imperial army storms and takes stronghold, capturing the Queen, the
commander of the Order (allies of Harald and his ally), and the
garrison. Things look very black for the good guys.
Things suddenly start going badly for the imperial army, due to various
clever things done by Harald and people on his side, resulting in the
imperials having to lift the siege of the capital and go home, the Lady
Commander being rescued, the Queen being rescued, the imperial army
being trapped on its way home and forced to surrender.
So the two changes were reordering events so that the parts where the
good guys did well were pushed to the end, making a sort of landslide
effect, and letting the bad guys get closer to winning than in the
previous draft.
I don't know if any of that will be of use to you or not.
--
http://www.daviddfriedman.com/
http://daviddfriedman.blogspot.com/
Author of _Future Imperfect: Technology and Freedom in an Uncertain World_
Brenda Clough
I have not read the work. But you know Robert Silverberg's trick about
the hairpin turn at the end, right? If it is going to end happily --
she accepts his proposal of marriage and they walk off hand in hand into
the sunset, let us say -- then just BEFORE that happy ending there
should be a moment of excruciating doubt! Oh no, he is going to ask me
to reorganize his filing system! Oh no, she is going to confide that
Hated Rival offered her a ten-carat diamond and she is going to accept it!
Likewise, if it is going to end sadly -- he dies in the trenches in a
barrage of enemy fire -- then, just before the barrage starts, he should
feel confident of surviving the War. He will go back home to Armpit
Junction and marry the girl next door! And, just as this happy daydream
seems almost real, the sound of the cannons...
Brenda
Eric Ammadon
>Anyway the only thing I could think of to blather about that has
>anything to do with writing methods, is why I am not taking the advice
>of the only person to have (so far) given me feedback on the ending of
>Scent of Spring.
Okay, right away I'll admit to gross stupidity and the observational
abilities of a dirt-clod. Did you post this story, the text of which
I don't recall having seen? Is it online somewhere?
Crikey, I'd love to pontificate in your direction! <g>
--
arggh, is it priate day again?
Michelle Bottorff
> mbot...@lshelby.com (Michelle Bottorff) wrote:
>
> >Anyway the only thing I could think of to blather about that has
> >anything to do with writing methods, is why I am not taking the advice
> >of the only person to have (so far) given me feedback on the ending of
> >Scent of Spring.
>
> Okay, right away I'll admit to gross stupidity and the observational
> abilities of a dirt-clod. Did you post this story, the text of which
> I don't recall having seen? Is it online somewhere?
I posted in this group a notice that I had completed the "pencils" and
that I was interested in finding betareaders.
The story is online, but unless you're signed up as a betareader my
website will not show it to you.
And it's not text. At least, not much of it. It's a comic book.
> > Crikey, I'd love to pontificate in your direction! <g>
I believe you.
But it is it worth reading something that is not only a romance, but a
romance that isn't even working quite right, in order to be able to do
so? :)
--
Michelle Bottorff -> Chelle B. -> Shelby
L. Shelby, Writer http://www.lshelby.com/
Livejournal http://lavenderbard.livejournal.com/
rec.arts.sf.composition FAQ http://www.lshelby.com/rasfcFAQ.html
Michelle Bottorff
> So the two changes were reordering events so that the parts where the
> good guys did well were pushed to the end, making a sort of landslide
> effect, and letting the bad guys get closer to winning than in the
> previous draft.
>
> I don't know if any of that will be of use to you or not.
Since I don't have any bad guys...
I think the traditional thing to do in this situation is to have her say
no to his proposal of marriage, (as the rough equivalent to having the
bad guys appear to be winning) and then something happens to make her
change her mind.
That's not really making the plot fabulator in my backbrain sit up and
take notice, though.
But I can come up with a "oh, no he screwed *that* one up unbelievably
badly!" moment if try. In fact, I've got at least part of one there
already.
Ah!
That one apparently has possibilities.
Thanks!
Michelle Bottorff
> Oh no, he is going to ask me
> to reorganize his filing system!
Ack, no! Anything other than clerical work!
(Personally I like organizing filing systems, its just actually doing
the filing that I have trouble with.)
Actually, I think I have my hairpin in the wrong place.
If you put it too close to the end, it becomes a pirouette. Not the
same kind of effect at all.
Brian M. Scott
<mbot...@lshelby.com> wrote in
<news:1jb4qbt.pjnig5tmdkyN%mbot...@lshelby.com> in
rec.arts.sf.composition:
[...]
> Actually, I think I have my hairpin in the wrong place.
In your ear? <g>
[...]
Brian
Michelle Bottorff
> > Actually, I think I have my hairpin in the wrong place.
>
> In your ear? <g>
Mostly they end up on the floor.
J.Pascal
> David Friedman <d...@daviddfriedman.nopsam.com> wrote:
> > So the two changes were reordering events so that the parts where the
> > good guys did well were pushed to the end, making a sort of landslide
> > effect, and letting the bad guys get closer to winning than in the
> > previous draft.
>
> > I don't know if any of that will be of use to you or not.
>
> Since I don't have any bad guys...
>
> I think the traditional thing to do in this situation is to have her say
> no to his proposal of marriage, (as the rough equivalent to having the
> bad guys appear to be winning) and then something happens to make her
> change her mind.
>
> That's not really making the plot fabulator in my backbrain sit up and
> take notice, though.
>
> But I can come up with a "oh, no he screwed *that* one up unbelievably
> badly!" moment if try. In fact, I've got at least part of one there
> already.
>
> Ah!
> That one apparently has possibilities.
> Thanks!
Romances and movie scripts (I'm told) are supposed to have their "dark
night of the soul" moment when all is lost.
Generally I rebel at "supposed" to anything, but I do notice that
those genres do tend to have that black moment... at least if they are
any good.
Granted, it's a deal breaker if the black moment in a romance is due
to one of the parties being utterly, unbearably, stupid.
So she says no, but for a good reason... or he *expects* her to say
no, for a good reason, or someone else interferes for what they feel
is a good reason and either of the primary persons believe that,
indeed, all is lost. If they can spend a little bit of time
attempting to reconcile to their loss you'll have at least some of
your readers in tears.
-Julie
J.Pascal
> > Oh no, he is going to ask me
> > to reorganize his filing system!
>
> Ack, no! Anything other than clerical work!
>
> (Personally I like organizing filing systems, its just actually doing
> the filing that I have trouble with.)
>
> Actually, I think I have my hairpin in the wrong place.
>
> If you put it too close to the end, it becomes a pirouette. Not the
> same kind of effect at all.
This is a fabulous analogy.
-Julie
Joy Beeson
Bottorff) wrote:
> Mostly they end up on the floor.
My hairpins tend to be found on the monitor stand.
--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at comcast dot net
Eric Ammadon
>On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 17:33:59 -0500, mbot...@lshelby.com (Michelle
>Bottorff) wrote:
>
>> Mostly they end up on the floor.
>
>My hairpins tend to be found on the monitor stand.
What is wrong with you people, don't you ever want to enter rooms to
which you have no key? <g>
Eric Ammadon
>Eric Ammadon <n...@spam.thankee> wrote:
>
>> mbot...@lshelby.com (Michelle Bottorff) wrote:
>>
>> >Anyway the only thing I could think of to blather about that has
>> >anything to do with writing methods, is why I am not taking the advice
>> >of the only person to have (so far) given me feedback on the ending of
>> >Scent of Spring.
>>
>> Okay, right away I'll admit to gross stupidity and the observational
>> abilities of a dirt-clod. Did you post this story, the text of which
>> I don't recall having seen? Is it online somewhere?
>
>I posted in this group a notice that I had completed the "pencils" and
>that I was interested in finding betareaders.
Ah, I was away from the group for a month or three (no doubt to the
relief of some) and that's probably when it happened.
>The story is online, but unless you're signed up as a betareader my
>website will not show it to you.
>
>And it's not text. At least, not much of it. It's a comic book.
>
>
>> > Crikey, I'd love to pontificate in your direction! <g>
>
>I believe you.
I love a good double-entendre. <g>
>But it is it worth reading something that is not only a romance, but a
>romance that isn't even working quite right, in order to be able to do
>so? :)
To be <gasp!> honest, the next thing I'll be reading in electronic
form is _Harald_ and I'm not sure when I'll be able to begin that.
It comforts me to forget for a few moments that 99% of my time at the
computer needs to be spent doing specific drudgery for the next month
or three. Duh! <slaps_forehead>
Joy Beeson
wrote:
> What is wrong with you people, don't you ever want to enter rooms to
> which you have no key? <g>
I do carry four spare hairpins in my coin purse.
and half a comb.
Eric Ammadon
>On Wed, 23 Dec 2009 02:52:20 -0700, Eric Ammadon <n...@spam.thankee>
>wrote:
>
>> What is wrong with you people, don't you ever want to enter rooms to
>> which you have no key? <g>
>
>I do carry four spare hairpins in my coin purse.
>
>and half a comb.
Okay, you get to stay in the cat-burglar's club. <g>
I sometimes wonder why women's purses don't contain more tools, but I
suppose they do, though they're tools for purposes other than working
on things mechanical.
Michelle Bottorff
>
> I sometimes wonder why women's purses don't contain more tools, but I
> suppose they do, though they're tools for purposes other than working
> on things mechanical.
I have never used a purse.
My belt pouch has two pocket knives, a handyman tool, and a miniature
screwdriver set in it. It used to have a small flashlight but the kids
lost it and I haven't found anything to replace it with that is sturdy
enough to hold up to constantly being banged against the pocket knives
and the handyman tool.
If I need to be dressy enough that the beltpouch is no longer an
acceptable accessory, I stuff anything I don't dare leave behind into my
cleavage. Usually that means I forgo the hardware, :sigh:, but only
*very* reluctantly, I assure you.
Eric Ammadon
>Eric Ammadon <n...@spam.thankee> wrote:
>
>>
>> I sometimes wonder why women's purses don't contain more tools, but I
>> suppose they do, though they're tools for purposes other than working
>> on things mechanical.
>
>I have never used a purse.
>
>My belt pouch
I used to carry a handgun in a belt pouch called a "holster" but got
rid of it a few years back because it was heavy and always in the way
and getting snagged on things. So it goes.
>has two pocket knives, a handyman tool, and a miniature
>screwdriver set in it. It used to have a small flashlight but the kids
>lost it and I haven't found anything to replace it with that is sturdy
>enough to hold up to constantly being banged against the pocket knives
>and the handyman tool.
Go to the sporting-goods department at WalMart for the flashlight,
they sell a small flat LED flashlight for about $4 as I recall, very
lightweight, replaced mine recently after using the old one's battery
up over about 6 years. It's about 3/4" wide, 2" long, maybe 3/16"
thick. Not saying it will definitely meet your needs, but it might.
>If I need to be dressy enough that the beltpouch is no longer an
>acceptable accessory, I stuff anything I don't dare leave behind into my
>cleavage. Usually that means I forgo the hardware, :sigh:, but only
>*very* reluctantly, I assure you.
I'm only a guy, and pockets are enough trouble without having to
remember to carry around a man-purse. I carry... a multi-tool, a
bunch of keys, a knife, a flash-drive, a small flashlight, a
magnifying glass, a bic lighter, a cellphone, and a wallet (which is
usually more or less empty).
NOTHING goes into my cleavage! <g>
Brenda Clough
> I sometimes wonder why women's purses don't contain more tools, but I
> suppose they do, though they're tools for purposes other than working
> on things mechanical.
>
Because we have OTHER things we have to carry. There was a time when I
always carried a spare diaper, a toy and a food item of some sort
(toddlers); then there was a time I always took care to have cash, a
beverage and feminine hygiene products (teen athlete). Nowadays I try
to always have some knitting and a book or ms.
Brenda
R.L.
> mbot...@lshelby.com (Michelle Bottorff) wrote:
>
>>Eric Ammadon <n...@spam.thankee> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I sometimes wonder why women's purses don't contain more tools, but I
>>> suppose they do, though they're tools for purposes other than working
>>> on things mechanical.
Weight maybe? My purse is too heavy already.
/snip/
> I carry... a multi-tool, a
> bunch of keys, a knife, a flash-drive, a small flashlight, a
> magnifying glass, a bic lighter, a cellphone, and a wallet (which is
> usually more or less empty).
My purse has all of those except the knife, lighter (non-smoker), and
'multi-tool'. Well, the flashlight is tiny, mostly good for finding
keyholes (but it does wind up instead of needing batteries).
This is enough weight to make a small shoulder bag an encumbrance. Men's
pants with several sturdy pockets to distribute the weight could carry more
tools.
R.L.
Joy Beeson
wrote:
> I sometimes wonder why women's purses don't contain more tools, but I
> suppose they do, though they're tools for purposes other than working
> on things mechanical.
The smaller outside pocket of my Wednesday-night purse contains
editing shears, three pairs of dollar-store scissors, one pair of
worn-out sewing shears, assorted writing tools (one of them
self-erasing), and a flat wallet containing a whetstone, assorted
stickers, tweezers, small scissors, an emergency sewing kit, knitting
needles, a steel pocket ruler, and items too numerous to remember.
The chairman of the committee dubbed my Wednesday-night purse "the
magic bag." Not magic enough: when I need the 45-degree triangle, I
have to carry another bag too.
J.Pascal
This reminds me of the baby-shower (or other shower) party game where
everyone gets a point for having a particular thing in their purse and
then the scores are added up.
At first I thought it was going to be a contest to see who had the
most unusual thing in her purse and I was anticipating finally winning
one of those games (which I never do) because I had a pair of elastic
boot blousers in mine and figured that not only would that be the
oddest thing, but no one would be able to guess what they were. (They
are used to tuck a BDU uniform leg up so it *looks* like it is tucked
into the boot.)
On general terms I think that every person, male and female, should
carry a pocket knife on their person.
-Julie
R.L.
[....]
> On general terms I think that every person, male and female, should
> carry a pocket knife on their person.
I used to, but even a single blade knife added a lot of weight to the
purse.
R.L.
Eric Ammadon
>On Thu, 24 Dec 2009 01:45:35 -0700, Eric Ammadon <n...@spam.thankee>
>wrote:
>
>> I sometimes wonder why women's purses don't contain more tools, but I
>> suppose they do, though they're tools for purposes other than working
>> on things mechanical.
>
>The smaller outside pocket of my Wednesday-night purse contains
>editing shears,
What are "editing shears"?
Why do they call "pinking shears" that, instead of something else?
Eric Ammadon
I have one out in the shop someplace that weighs about the same as a
ballpoint pen, it's the carbon-filament handle that keeps it light. I
don't carry it, not because I dislike it, but because sometimes in the
shop I need a knife that is _really_ sharp.
In addition to a pocket-knife, a pair of pliers is handy. Very handy.
The mult-tool thingys are quite popular these days.
Kay Shapero
says...
> I have one out in the shop someplace that weighs about the same as a
> ballpoint pen, it's the carbon-filament handle that keeps it light. I
> don't carry it, not because I dislike it, but because sometimes in the
> shop I need a knife that is _really_ sharp.
>
> In addition to a pocket-knife, a pair of pliers is handy. Very handy.
> The mult-tool thingys are quite popular these days.
>
I've got a Swiss Army Knife with pliers, a philips-head screwdriver, two
flat-blade screwdrivers, scissors, some other stuff I forget and, oh
yes, two knife blades.
--
Kay Shapero
FAQ: http://www.kayshapero.net/filkfaq.htm
address munged, email me at kay at domain name
http://www.kayshapero.net
--
Kay Shapero
address munged, email kay at following domain
http://www.kayshapero.net
Eric Ammadon
>In article <2r09j51iaqn4l7rpl...@4ax.com>, n...@spam.thankee
>says...
>
>> I have one out in the shop someplace that weighs about the same as a
>> ballpoint pen, it's the carbon-filament handle that keeps it light. I
>> don't carry it, not because I dislike it, but because sometimes in the
>> shop I need a knife that is _really_ sharp.
>>
>> In addition to a pocket-knife, a pair of pliers is handy. Very handy.
>> The mult-tool thingys are quite popular these days.
>>
>I've got a Swiss Army Knife with pliers, a philips-head screwdriver, two
>flat-blade screwdrivers, scissors, some other stuff I forget and, oh
>yes, two knife blades.
Yeah, I have one of those around somewhere, it has about three of
everything in it, is nearly as big as my foot, and weighs too much to
carry without getting tired. Between too much and too little is maybe
"Quant suff. Most scientific." <g>
[The quote is from an old book by Alfred Bester.]
Ric Locke
> In article <2r09j51iaqn4l7rpl...@4ax.com>, n...@spam.thankee
> says...
>
>> I have one out in the shop someplace that weighs about the same as a
>> ballpoint pen, it's the carbon-filament handle that keeps it light. I
>> don't carry it, not because I dislike it, but because sometimes in the
>> shop I need a knife that is _really_ sharp.
>>
>> In addition to a pocket-knife, a pair of pliers is handy. Very handy.
>> The mult-tool thingys are quite popular these days.
>>
> I've got a Swiss Army Knife with pliers, a philips-head screwdriver, two
> flat-blade screwdrivers, scissors, some other stuff I forget and, oh
> yes, two knife blades.
> --
Whereas I, a mere male with pockets in his clothes, long ago discovered
that, for me, anything I don't use constantly disappears. If I carry a
pocket knife it goes unused for days or weeks, then I need it, use it,
and set it down somewhere and forget it. Next time I need it it isn't
there any more. Pocket knives, multitools, pens and pencils -- the
half-life of a pen in my shirt pocket is approximately three hours. It
recalls Woody Allen, who said that he didn't wear expensive watches
because he didn't mean to tip hotel chambermaids that well.
So my pockets contain coins, car keys, and an ephemeral collection of
stuff I've picked up and will put away when I think of it. Most flat
surfaces around me have at least one jar, coffee can, ash tray, or other
improvised container for the stuff I had in my pockets that should have
been put away. It's irritating and inconvenient, but apparently a
permanent part of my personality.
Regards,
Ric
Joy Beeson
wrote:
> What are "editing shears"?
Long paper scissors -- the pair in question has seven-inch blades
(about eighteen centimeters) and is a tad over a foot long. (not
quite 31cm.)
> Why do they call "pinking shears" that, instead of something else?
So I looked up "pink": most interesting. Probably a variant of
"pick" it meant to decorate by punching small holes or scalloping the
edges. (Seems to have been extended to large holes in the case of
swords or bullets -- or maybe such holes were small in context.)
The garden flower called "pink" has sawtooth-edged petals that look as
though they had been pinked. "Pink" the color is defined as "the
color of pinks."
[The O.E.D. is hard enough to read when the type is full-size, and my
sewing glasses are only 3.5, but I did make out (when I'd slept off
the celebration and had natural light to read by) that there is no
evidence that the flower "pink" was named for its pinked petals, and
some evidence that when the flower was named, pink-the-verb meant
perforations and hadn't yet been extended to edges. But it agrees
that the color was named after the flower.]
Anyhow, one needs to pink edges for various non-decorative reasons,
and pinking shears are the commonest way to do it. It's possible to
pink by repeatedly pinching the fabric and snipping off the corner of
the fold, but I don't recall ever seeing this technique used for
anything that could be called "pinking" without severe strain on the
definition.
Way back when, there were "pinking irons", a sort of die that one put
on the fabric or whatever and hit with a hammer. (They look something
like chisels.) This is still the best way to pink an edge for
decoration, so there is some demand for reproduction pinking irons.
I have seen wavy-edged blades for rotary cutters, but have no
experience in using one. I have a vague impression that they come
only in a sort of sine curve, and can't be made to leave the sharp
zig-zags of the common pinking shear. Zig-zags are so firmly
associated with pinking shears that shears that leave other patterns
are apt to be sold as "scalloping shears".
Before it went broke, the scrap-booking shop had assorted shears for
putting fancy edges on paper, but I don't recall what they called
them.
Obligatory note: scissors or shears good enough to cut fabric neatly
are *much* more expensive than paper-grade scissors. Cutting paper
with sewing scissors is a major sin in the sewing room, because paper
is abrasive and will quickly dull the edges.
(Back when I actually edited, the rhythm of cutting paper with a knife
was "stroke, whet, whet.")
Eric Ammadon
>On Fri, 25 Dec 2009 02:17:25 -0700, Eric Ammadon <n...@spam.thankee>
>wrote:
>
>> What are "editing shears"?
>
>Long paper scissors -- the pair in question has seven-inch blades
>(about eighteen centimeters) and is a tad over a foot long. (not
>quite 31cm.)
I'm getting the impression that you're talking about manuscript
editing? Like, actual hardcopy from a mechanical typewriter? <gasp!>
>> Why do they call "pinking shears" that, instead of something else?
>
>So I looked up "pink": most interesting. Probably a variant of
>"pick" it meant to decorate by punching small holes or scalloping the
>edges. (Seems to have been extended to large holes in the case of
>swords or bullets -- or maybe such holes were small in context.)
>
>The garden flower called "pink" has sawtooth-edged petals that look as
>though they had been pinked. "Pink" the color is defined as "the
>color of pinks."
>
>[The O.E.D. is hard enough to read when the type is full-size, and my
>sewing glasses are only 3.5, but I did make out (when I'd slept off
>the celebration and had natural light to read by) that there is no
>evidence that the flower "pink" was named for its pinked petals, and
>some evidence that when the flower was named, pink-the-verb meant
>perforations and hadn't yet been extended to edges. But it agrees
>that the color was named after the flower.]
>
>Anyhow, one needs to pink edges for various non-decorative reasons,
>and pinking shears are the commonest way to do it.
Why would you need to do that? Does it keep cloth from unraveling, or
what?
> It's possible to
>pink by repeatedly pinching the fabric and snipping off the corner of
>the fold, but I don't recall ever seeing this technique used for
>anything that could be called "pinking" without severe strain on the
>definition.
>
>Way back when, there were "pinking irons", a sort of die that one put
>on the fabric or whatever and hit with a hammer. (They look something
>like chisels.) This is still the best way to pink an edge for
>decoration, so there is some demand for reproduction pinking irons.
>
>I have seen wavy-edged blades for rotary cutters, but have no
>experience in using one. I have a vague impression that they come
>only in a sort of sine curve, and can't be made to leave the sharp
>zig-zags of the common pinking shear. Zig-zags are so firmly
>associated with pinking shears that shears that leave other patterns
>are apt to be sold as "scalloping shears".
>
>Before it went broke, the scrap-booking shop had assorted shears for
>putting fancy edges on paper, but I don't recall what they called
>them.
>
>Obligatory note: scissors or shears good enough to cut fabric neatly
>are *much* more expensive than paper-grade scissors. Cutting paper
>with sewing scissors is a major sin in the sewing room, because paper
>is abrasive and will quickly dull the edges.
>
>(Back when I actually edited, the rhythm of cutting paper with a knife
>was "stroke, whet, whet.")
Thanks for an interesting reply!
Pinking shears look as if they'd be difficult to manufacture.
Suzanne Blom
"Eric Ammadon" <n...@spam.thankee> wrote in message
news:hlgbj5li6ubpfbcm3...@4ax.com...
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
> Joy Beeson <jbe...@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 25 Dec 2009 02:17:25 -0700, Eric Ammadon <n...@spam.thankee>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> What are "editing shears"?
>> Long paper scissors -- the pair in question has seven-inch blades
>> (about eighteen centimeters) and is a tad over a foot long. (not
>> quite 31cm.)
>
> I'm getting the impression that you're talking about manuscript
> editing? Like, actual hardcopy from a mechanical typewriter? <gasp!>
>
With blades like that, it sounds like it's AUTHOR editing. There's a
reason we call them DEADlines!
--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Live Journal: http://seawasp.livejournal.com
Brian M. Scott
<warric...@gmail.com> wrote in
<news:1e4n0odwq2u2j.1otv9car13mdn$.d...@40tude.net> in
rec.arts.sf.composition:
> On Fri, 25 Dec 2009 21:30:16 -0800, Kay Shapero wrote:
[...]
>> I've got a Swiss Army Knife with pliers, a philips-head
>> screwdriver, two flat-blade screwdrivers, scissors,
>> some other stuff I forget and, oh yes, two knife
>> blades.
> Whereas I, a mere male with pockets in his clothes, long
> ago discovered that, for me, anything I don't use
> constantly disappears. If I carry a pocket knife it goes
> unused for days or weeks, then I need it, use it, and set
> it down somewhere and forget it. Next time I need it it
> isn't there any more. Pocket knives, multitools, pens and
> pencils -- the half-life of a pen in my shirt pocket is
> approximately three hours. It recalls Woody Allen, who
> said that he didn't wear expensive watches because he
> didn't mean to tip hotel chambermaids that well.
> So my pockets contain coins, car keys, and an ephemeral
> collection of stuff I've picked up and will put away when
> I think of it. [...]
Mine generally contain a standard kit: wallet on the left,
coins, key ring, a pen (except on the rare occasions when
I'm wearing a shirt with a pocket), and usually my
lock-blade. I don't use the knife all that often, but it's
also good for flipping and catching if I need something to
play with. (And now that I think of it, it's just the right
length in my rather small hand to serve as a kongo,
Modesty-style!)
Brian
Brian M. Scott
<jbe...@invalid.net.invalid> wrote in
<news:3ghcj5h69db27420e...@4ax.com> in
rec.arts.sf.composition:
> On Fri, 25 Dec 2009 02:17:25 -0700, Eric Ammadon <n...@spam.thankee>
> wrote:
[...]
>> Why do they call "pinking shears" that, instead of
>> something else?
> So I looked up "pink": most interesting. Probably a
> variant of "pick" it meant to decorate by punching small
> holes or scalloping the edges.
According to a March 2009 revision of the OED (available in
the online version), the origin is uncertain; the editors
say that the word is 'probably ultimately imitative, or
perhaps a variant of PING', a verb meaning 'to prick, stab,
or poke; to urge', from an Old English borrowing <pingan>,
<pyngan> of Latin <pungere> 'to prick, to sting'. (This
<ping> is now rare.)
The sense 'to cut a scalloped or zigzag edge' does seem to
have developed from the earlier sense 'to ornament cloth or
leather by cutting or punching eyelet holes, slits, etc.,
esp. to display a contrasting lining or undergarment',
probably during the 19th century.
> (Seems to have been extended to large holes in the case of
> swords or bullets -- or maybe such holes were small in
> context.)
It was the piercing that mattered. In order of appearance
the relevant senses were 'to make or punch holes; to stab'
(intransitive), 'to pierce, stab, or prick with a pointed
weapon or instrument' (transitive), and then by extension
'to pierce, nick, or hit with a bullet'.
> The garden flower called "pink" has sawtooth-edged petals
> that look as though they had been pinked.
The etymology of the flower name is uncertain. This is one
of the decent possibilities, but it's not the only one.
There is an old verb <pink> 'of the eyes: to become small
and narrow, to be half shut; to peer; to blink; of a person
or animal: to peer with half-closed eyes; to blink or wink',
probably from early modern Dutch <pin(c)ken>. There is also
an adjective <pink> 'of an eye: small, winking, or
half-shut', apparently derived from the verb. Just as
Middle French <œillet> 'little eye' acquired the sense 'pink
(the flower)', the English flower name may be connected with
these words. Indeed, the French transference of meaning is
attested early enough that it may have been the model.
[...]
Brian
Brian M. Scott
<n...@spam.thankee> wrote in
<news:b4icj5d57ibggg1ve...@4ax.com> in
rec.arts.sf.composition:
> Joy Beeson <jbe...@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
[...]
>> Anyhow, one needs to pink edges for various
>> non-decorative reasons, and pinking shears are the
>> commonest way to do it.
> Why would you need to do that? Does it keep cloth from
> unraveling, or what?
Not entirely, but it limits the extent of the fraying.
[...]
Brian
Dorothy J Heydt
Does the common eye infection called "pinkeye" come into the
linguistic process anywhere here?
That, of course, turns the white of the eye and surrounding
tissues pink (the color). A quick google didn't give me any clue
to when the term came into use.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at hotmail dot com
Should you wish to email me, you'd better use the hotmail edress.
Kithrup is getting too damn much spam, even with the sysop's filters.
Brian M. Scott
<djh...@kithrup.com> wrote in <news:KvA5C...@kithrup.com>
in rec.arts.sf.composition:
[...]
> Does the common eye infection called "pinkeye" come into the
> linguistic process anywhere here?
It seems to be a late creation from <pink> as a color; the
earliest OED citation (as of a 6/2009 revision) is from
1855: 'An ophthalmic disease, called the pink eye, ...
attacks horses from the country, and injures their sale'.
The next one is from 1897 and refers to human
conjunctivitis.
[...]
Brian
Judy R. Johnson
--
====================================
NEW -- JRJ>Huh. I used to help my husband doctor a lot of pink eye on
cows when we worked on ranches. Flies spread it and sometimes it was
endemic in the summers. However, everybody said it never affected
horses, and I never saw that it did.
You all think I'm going to be argumentative, right? Well, wrong. My
take is that the kind we had in the USA in bovines is different from
whatever 19th century Britain's horses might have had. Wonder what kind
it was? I've still never seen a horse with any kind of pink eye.
Entwife Judy
--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ne...@netfront.net ---
Brian M. Scott
<j...@fidalgo.net> wrote in
<news:hh6ih6$bba$1...@adenine.netfront.net> in
rec.arts.sf.composition:
> On 12/26/2009 2:45 PM, Brian M. Scott wrote:
>> On Sat, 26 Dec 2009 22:05:13 GMT, Dorothy J Heydt
>> <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote in<news:KvA5C...@kithrup.com>
>> in rec.arts.sf.composition:
>> [...]
>>> Does the common eye infection called "pinkeye" come into the
>>> linguistic process anywhere here?
>> It seems to be a late creation from<pink> as a color; the
>> earliest OED citation (as of a 6/2009 revision) is from
>> 1855: 'An ophthalmic disease, called the pink eye, ...
>> attacks horses from the country, and injures their sale'.
>> The next one is from 1897 and refers to human
>> conjunctivitis.
> NEW -- JRJ>Huh. I used to help my husband doctor a lot of pink eye on
> cows when we worked on ranches. Flies spread it and sometimes it was
> endemic in the summers. However, everybody said it never affected
> horses, and I never saw that it did.
> You all think I'm going to be argumentative, right? Well, wrong. My
> take is that the kind we had in the USA in bovines is different from
> whatever 19th century Britain's horses might have had. Wonder what kind
> it was? I've still never seen a horse with any kind of pink eye.
The citation, however, is from something identified as
'Amer. Inst. N.Y. Trans.', which would appear to be
American.
Brian
Elaine Thompson
Bottorff) wrote:
>I don't know if Brenda meant I was supposed to start a new thread about
>my methods, or if she meant Bill was supposed to start a new thread
>about his stories.
>
>Maybe we should do both?
>
>
>Anyway the only thing I could think of to blather about that has
>anything to do with writing methods, is why I am not taking the advice
>of the only person to have (so far) given me feedback on the ending of
>Scent of Spring.
>
>
>So WARNING. SPOILER.
>I will be deconstructing my graphic novel Scent of Spring in this post.
>
>If you were planning to read and comment on it for me, you might want to
>do that before reading what follows.
>
>.
>
>
>.
>
>
>.
>
>
>.
>
>
>.
>
>
>.
>
>
>.
>
>
>My one commenter thinks the end of the story is "too easy", that it
>lacks conflict.
>
I just finally read it, and noticed that comment. He didn't pick up
on the emotional tension, obviously.
She was, if not conflicted, uncertain.
>
>The commenter thinks that the ending is too easy, and lacks conflict.
>This isn't a surprise to me, because whenever I step back and squint at
>the darn thing sideways, I can't *see* any conflict. He wants to marry
>her, she finds him attractive, and there are no physical barriers to the
>union.
>
>But when I read it, the story doesn't feel like it lacks emotional
>impact. I may not see conflict, but I certainly *feel* tension, its
>just that the tension is entirely based on what is happening *inside*
>the characters.
>
>So I'm assuming that the proper fix isn't to go out looking for an
>external conflict, it's to figure out how to show the internal conflict
>that is already there more clearly.
>
>And, um, I'd really like to get back some more reader comments before I
>start on that, because I want to know where the one commenter I've got
>rates on the cluelessness scale.
>
>His perception is that my heroine is a basically weak character who goes
>wherever he suitors push her.
>
>I think my character is a strong character -- generally complaisant, but
>only willing to go only so far before she digs in her heels -- and at
>that point nothing can move her.
Yes. I got that.
She's a bit like Galadriel, in Sam's description of her to Faramir.
She is who she is, and if you break because of her, she didn't do it,
it's just a matter of who and what she is.
>True, she is not particularly active.
>She doesn't go out looking for anything. She is, in fact, very content
>with what she has, and that is the key source of her strength. She
>doesn't need to go out and find happiness, because she perfectly capable
>of growing her own. But, as is so often the case, her great strength is
>also a kind of a weakness. When removed from the santuary she builds
>herself she tends to feel lost and uncomfortable. She can face having
>to build anew -- building the sanctuary is part of the joy, but she
>doesn't want face constantly dealing with the outside.
THat, I think, got lost between the beginning and the end. Now that
you mention it, I remember it coming up in the beginning. But then it
doesn't come up as overtly (AIR ) again.
>
>When I read the story, I feel lots of tension at the end, because even
>though I know that my couple ends up together, for the characters in
>that moment it is by no means an assured thing. The decision to marry
>the hero is a very difficult decision for the heroine to make. His
>situation is such that living with him will force her to continually go
>outside of her comfort zone, and although my hero is capable and
>protective and will certainly ease her way, she cannot bring her herself
>to trust that he will always be there to lean on. In order to make her
>decision in his favor, she has to be willing to face a possible future
>where she is dealing with his world, by herself.
I would think she'd have to, whether or not he lived a long time.
Simply because in a royal court environment (BTW, was he a ruling
prince or an heir prince? that wasn't clear, either. I suspect
ruling, but as I said, it wasn't clear. ) the men and women have
their own spheres of influence.
Maybe showing her starting to deal with it, more on her own than in
the one court-ish scene we do see.
>
>As for my masterful hero, he has to face the fact that he can't DO
>anything. He can't control, arrange, direct or even wheedle anymore.
>This is her decision to make, and the more he tries to influence her
>decision, the worse he hurts his own case. He is brought to confront
>his own weaknesses and limitations, and then he's forced to wait, and he
>genuinely doesn't know what the answer will be.
And maybe showing us a bit more of his agonizing as he waits. And
waits. And waits.
--
Elaine Thompson <Ela...@KEThompson.org>
Eric Ammadon
Read it yesterday, me.
The pictures are hokey. And he got away with it. Times do change.
Eric Ammadon
>[...] and usually my
>lock-blade. I don't use the knife all that often, but it's
>also good for flipping and catching if I need something to
>play with.
The "knoife" would be the last thing to go, for me. I use it for
everything from removing splinters to trimming roof shingles but
mostly it opens 21st-century packaging. It's stainless steel with a
handle of some plasticky stuff, the blade half serrated. Between it
and the magnifying glass there's little that can't be done, given
sufficient time. It's much more conveient to carry it around, always
in the way, than to look for obsidian to chip.
Eric Ammadon
>Eric Ammadon wrote:
>> Joy Beeson <jbe...@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 25 Dec 2009 02:17:25 -0700, Eric Ammadon <n...@spam.thankee>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> What are "editing shears"?
>>> Long paper scissors -- the pair in question has seven-inch blades
>>> (about eighteen centimeters) and is a tad over a foot long. (not
>>> quite 31cm.)
>>
>> I'm getting the impression that you're talking about manuscript
>> editing? Like, actual hardcopy from a mechanical typewriter? <gasp!>
>>
>
> With blades like that, it sounds like it's AUTHOR editing. There's a
>reason we call them DEADlines!
I'm agonna take my rocky mountain oysters and cross 'em tween my laigs
while I cringe back here in the corner wheres I can use ctrl-x and
ctrl-v and avoid Real Editors, cause thems be way too scary for this
wussyboy!
John F. Eldredge
My mother carried a little dollhouse sink, about thumb-sized, in her
purse, so that she could pull it out and say, "I have everything in here
_including_ the kitchen sink."
--
John F. Eldredge -- jo...@jfeldredge.com
"Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better
than not to think at all." -- Hypatia of Alexandria
Joy Beeson
wrote:
> >Anyhow, one needs to pink edges for various non-decorative reasons,
> >and pinking shears are the commonest way to do it.
>
> Why would you need to do that? Does it keep cloth from unraveling, or
> what?
Better drop in to alt.sewing for an answer to that one.
As a ravel preventer, pinking is over-rated, but it makes edges less
likely to show through.
I personally have so little use for pinked edges that I keep my
fabric-quality pinking shears packed away in an antique sewing
machine, and don't recall getting them out more than once since I
inherited them.
The pair that I sometimes carry with me was cheap to start with and is
badly worn, so I don't hesitate to cut paper with them. And I cut
some tape for drawstrings with them the other day; I wanted an
ornamental edge & didn't mind if the cut was a little chewed -- it was
only a gift bag.
Eric Ammadon
<awk!> A fellow heretic! <g>
Michelle Bottorff
> THat, I think, got lost between the beginning and the end.
Yes. Thank you for helping me pinpoint which stuff it is that I need to
work on.
> (BTW, was he a ruling prince or an heir prince?
Ruling prince.
From a story viewpoint I'm not sure it makes any difference whether he's
the ruler, or he's the heir to someone so old/weak/inable that he never
shows up in the story at all, even to be mentioned, and his heir has
clearly taken over some if not all of the administrative work of running
the place.
But I suppose I can slip in an "our ruler" reference or two just to stop
people from wondering. :)
--
Michelle Bottorff -> Chelle B. -> Shelby
L. Shelby, Writer http://www.lshelby.com/
Livejournal http://lavenderbard.livejournal.com/
rec.arts.sf.composition FAQ http://www.lshelby.com/rasfcFAQ.html