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Query - on chapter length
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Raymond Daley
Nov 2, 2012, 3:00:10 PM11/2/12
to
Is this the right place to ask about this or should I be asking in the
.written group?
I'm looking at trying to write longer stuff than short stories and aiming at
something novellette sized so something between 15,000 and 30,000 words
long.
Is there such a thing as an average chapter length?
Just so I've got a rough idea of how much to aim at or what is considered
too long.
I've never tried writing chapters before, normally most of my stories are
just one piece.
Any kind of advice would be appreciated.
.written group?
I'm looking at trying to write longer stuff than short stories and aiming at
something novellette sized so something between 15,000 and 30,000 words
long.
Is there such a thing as an average chapter length?
Just so I've got a rough idea of how much to aim at or what is considered
too long.
I've never tried writing chapters before, normally most of my stories are
just one piece.
Any kind of advice would be appreciated.
Nicky
Nov 2, 2012, 3:06:52 PM11/2/12
to
Brenda Clough
Nov 2, 2012, 9:00:21 PM11/2/12
to
where the serialization broke off, to be continued Next Month. You can
still view the cliffhangers that occur at the end of each chapter of a
Victorian novel, to be followed at the beginning of the following
chapter by some exposition to catch the reader up and clue in new arrivals.
Considerations you (as a modern writer) may mull over include:
Suitable chunks for reading aloud
Artistic factors: cliffhangers? characters going to bed at the end of
each chapter? The end of the war and twenty years pass? Scene changes?
The need to keep ebook uploads in increments that systems can handle.
Editor/publisher demands ("our readers like short chapters")
If I were you I would not worry about it. Write it; leave a couple of
line returns anywhere a break in the story calls for it. You can always
break it into chapters later. At this stage it is a meaningless thing
to fuss over -- like worrying about the font they'll use on the cover.
Brenda
--
My latest novel SPEAK TO OUR DESIRES is available exclusively from Book
View Cafe.
http://www.bookviewcafe.com/index.php/Brenda-Clough/Novels/Speak-to-Our-Desires-Chapter-01
Jacey Bedford
Nov 2, 2012, 10:23:11 PM11/2/12
to
In message <UMUks.76118$9D6....@fx27.am4>, Raymond Daley
<raymon...@ntlworld.com> writes
Whatever kind of length feels natural for the story. There's no rule.
When I'm writing for children its anything from 1000 to 2,500 words
(shorter for younger kids, a bit longer for older ones). When I'm
writing for adults then it's anything between 4,000 and 6,000 depending
on where the natural breaks in the story come.
Even in longer works chapters are completely optional, though as a
reader I like them.
Good luck
Jacey
>
>
>
--
Jacey Bedford
<raymon...@ntlworld.com> writes
When I'm writing for children its anything from 1000 to 2,500 words
(shorter for younger kids, a bit longer for older ones). When I'm
writing for adults then it's anything between 4,000 and 6,000 depending
on where the natural breaks in the story come.
Even in longer works chapters are completely optional, though as a
reader I like them.
Good luck
Jacey
>
>
>
--
Jacey Bedford
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Nov 2, 2012, 11:28:17 PM11/2/12
to
On 11/2/12 10:23 PM, Jacey Bedford wrote:
> In message <UMUks.76118$9D6....@fx27.am4>, Raymond Daley
> <raymon...@ntlworld.com> writes
>> Is this the right place to ask about this or should I be asking in the
>> .written group?
>> I'm looking at trying to write longer stuff than short stories and
>> aiming at
>> something novellette sized so something between 15,000 and 30,000 words
>> long.
>>
>> Is there such a thing as an average chapter length?
>> Just so I've got a rough idea of how much to aim at or what is considered
>> too long.
>> I've never tried writing chapters before, normally most of my stories are
>> just one piece.
>>
>>
>> Any kind of advice would be appreciated.
>
> Whatever kind of length feels natural for the story. There's no rule.
> When I'm writing for children its anything from 1000 to 2,500 words
> (shorter for younger kids, a bit longer for older ones). When I'm
> writing for adults then it's anything between 4,000 and 6,000 depending
> on where the natural breaks in the story come.
>
My chapters average slightly over 2,000 words.
> In message <UMUks.76118$9D6....@fx27.am4>, Raymond Daley
> <raymon...@ntlworld.com> writes
>> Is this the right place to ask about this or should I be asking in the
>> .written group?
>> I'm looking at trying to write longer stuff than short stories and
>> aiming at
>> something novellette sized so something between 15,000 and 30,000 words
>> long.
>>
>> Is there such a thing as an average chapter length?
>> Just so I've got a rough idea of how much to aim at or what is considered
>> too long.
>> I've never tried writing chapters before, normally most of my stories are
>> just one piece.
>>
>>
>> Any kind of advice would be appreciated.
>
> Whatever kind of length feels natural for the story. There's no rule.
> When I'm writing for children its anything from 1000 to 2,500 words
> (shorter for younger kids, a bit longer for older ones). When I'm
> writing for adults then it's anything between 4,000 and 6,000 depending
> on where the natural breaks in the story come.
>
--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Website: http://www.grandcentralarena.com Blog:
http://seawasp.livejournal.com
John W Kennedy
Nov 3, 2012, 11:29:09 AM11/3/12
to
/within/ a book -- except for children's books that may be subject to
ritual (e.g., bedtime) reading aloud.
But do try to have reasons -- A cliffhanger, even trivial. (Suddenly, here
was a knock on the door. [New chapter] My mother walked in.) Or a switch
from one plotline or party to another. Or combine the two, and end every
chapter with a cliffhanger for one character while go to resolve the latest
cliffhanger for another character. Or have a chapter for each detective to
lay out his solution, and then a chapter for the master detective to show
why they're all wrong. Or, if you can't resist the lure of had-I-but-known,
end a chapter with it, and go on. Or delimit episodes (in the formal
sense). (The beggar sat and began his story. [New chapter] "I was not
always as you see me....") Or just have the POV character go to bed.
Bill Swears
Nov 3, 2012, 1:14:12 PM11/3/12
to
loose word. I end up writing 25 to 35 chapters. In Zook Country, I
averaged 2889 words per chapter, with my long chapter at over 4,000
words, and my short chapter having 1,675.
My other completed MS has 165,000 words and 27 chapters, so 6092 words
per chapter. I think those chapters should be broken into smaller
chunks, but the large chapters have their own internal consistency, so
I'm thinking that maybe sub-chapters would fit better.
Bill
--
www.billswears.com
Zook Country - http://twilighttimesbooks.com/ZookCountry_ch1.html
Also at Amazon, Barnes and Noble, and other fine ebook emporia.
Puppies - http://www.mtaonline.net/~wswears/
Opinions - http://wswears.livejournal.com/
Dorothy J Heydt
Nov 3, 2012, 1:17:06 PM11/3/12
to
In article <885498692373647644.8119...@news.optonline.net>,
resolution of whatever sub-problem that chapter was about.
I'm currently rereading a fanfic I wrote some years ago; let's
see what I did.
Chapter 9 ends with a two-paragraph revelation that somebody we
all thought was dead, isn't. And a hint of what he's up to.
Chapter 10 ends with one of the main characters reading a letter
that was not meant for her eyes, which gives her some new
intelligence and cause for alarm. She leaves; next chapter
begins with other people doing something else.
Chapter 11 ends with a prisoner, having seized on an opportunity
to escape his cell, stepping through a teleport door that leads
he has No Idea Where. At the beginning of the next chapter he
finds out.
I'm inclined to think, with others upthread, that there's no
particularly crucial length for a chapter; your content will
determine your appropriate stopping-place.
Try to avoid eight-word chapters, though; Lewis Carroll could get
away with it, but that doesn't mean we can.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Should you wish to email me, you'd better use the gmail edress.
Kithrup's all spammy and hotmail's been hacked.
John W Kennedy <jwk...@attglobal.neg> wrote:
>
>But do try to have reasons -- A cliffhanger, even trivial. (Suddenly, here
>was a knock on the door. [New chapter] My mother walked in.) Or a switch
>from one plotline or party to another. Or combine the two, and end every
>chapter with a cliffhanger for one character while go to resolve the latest
>cliffhanger for another character. Or have a chapter for each detective to
>lay out his solution, and then a chapter for the master detective to show
>why they're all wrong. Or, if you can't resist the lure of had-I-but-known,
>end a chapter with it, and go on. Or delimit episodes (in the formal
>sense). (The beggar sat and began his story. [New chapter] "I was not
>always as you see me....") Or just have the POV character go to bed.
It doesn't have to be a cliffhanger; it can be a temporary
>
>But do try to have reasons -- A cliffhanger, even trivial. (Suddenly, here
>was a knock on the door. [New chapter] My mother walked in.) Or a switch
>from one plotline or party to another. Or combine the two, and end every
>chapter with a cliffhanger for one character while go to resolve the latest
>cliffhanger for another character. Or have a chapter for each detective to
>lay out his solution, and then a chapter for the master detective to show
>why they're all wrong. Or, if you can't resist the lure of had-I-but-known,
>end a chapter with it, and go on. Or delimit episodes (in the formal
>sense). (The beggar sat and began his story. [New chapter] "I was not
>always as you see me....") Or just have the POV character go to bed.
resolution of whatever sub-problem that chapter was about.
I'm currently rereading a fanfic I wrote some years ago; let's
see what I did.
Chapter 9 ends with a two-paragraph revelation that somebody we
all thought was dead, isn't. And a hint of what he's up to.
Chapter 10 ends with one of the main characters reading a letter
that was not meant for her eyes, which gives her some new
intelligence and cause for alarm. She leaves; next chapter
begins with other people doing something else.
Chapter 11 ends with a prisoner, having seized on an opportunity
to escape his cell, stepping through a teleport door that leads
he has No Idea Where. At the beginning of the next chapter he
finds out.
I'm inclined to think, with others upthread, that there's no
particularly crucial length for a chapter; your content will
determine your appropriate stopping-place.
Try to avoid eight-word chapters, though; Lewis Carroll could get
away with it, but that doesn't mean we can.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Should you wish to email me, you'd better use the gmail edress.
Kithrup's all spammy and hotmail's been hacked.
Jymesion
Nov 3, 2012, 6:57:46 PM11/3/12
to
On Fri, 2 Nov 2012 19:00:10 -0000, "Raymond Daley"
<raymon...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>Is there such a thing as an average chapter length?
>Just so I've got a rough idea of how much to aim at or what is considered
>too long.
>I've never tried writing chapters before, normally most of my stories are
>just one piece.
>
>Any kind of advice would be appreciated.
I think a chapter should be exactly long enough to reach the next
<raymon...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>Is there such a thing as an average chapter length?
>Just so I've got a rough idea of how much to aim at or what is considered
>too long.
>I've never tried writing chapters before, normally most of my stories are
>just one piece.
>
>Any kind of advice would be appreciated.
chapter.
In my longest work to date, chapters range from 3,400 to 11,600 words.
For me, it's sort of like judging the length of a paragraph -- when
it's time to start a new one, you start a new one. I suspect you'd be
shooting yourself in the foot if you overthink it, or worse, want to
shorten one and lengthen another to make them more even.
I'm basically a short story writer, so each chapter is almost its own
complete story. The difference is that instead of reaching a
resolution, there's a change in circumstances that will have to be
addressed in the next chapter.
John W Kennedy
Nov 3, 2012, 9:58:25 PM11/3/12
to
On 2012-11-03 17:17:06 +0000, Dorothy J Heydt said:
> Try to avoid eight-word chapters, though; Lewis Carroll could get
> away with it, but that doesn't mean we can.
Avram Davidson, writing as Ellery Queen, managed an even shorter one. I
> Try to avoid eight-word chapters, though; Lewis Carroll could get
> away with it, but that doesn't mean we can.
remember being quite affected by it, but it must have been nearly 50
years ago. Some hate it.
--
John W Kennedy
"...if you had to fall in love with someone who was evil, I can see why
it was her."
-- "Alias"
JF
Nov 5, 2012, 2:31:00 AM11/5/12
to
On 03/11/2012 17:14, Bill Swears wrote:
> My other completed MS has 165,000 words and 27 chapters, so 6092
> words per chapter. I think those chapters should be broken into
> smaller chunks, but the large chapters have their own internal
> consistency, so I'm thinking that maybe sub-chapters would fit
> better.
In my pomp I once wrote two consecutive chapters which had the
> My other completed MS has 165,000 words and 27 chapters, so 6092
> words per chapter. I think those chapters should be broken into
> smaller chunks, but the large chapters have their own internal
> consistency, so I'm thinking that maybe sub-chapters would fit
> better.
ratio 4.669. It was relevant, the novel was about the tiny things
that can tilt history -- the Romans with steam one -- so I put it
in for my own satisfaction. Otherwise I let things fall as they
may, some short, some long.
It doesn't matter. No-one will notice. We had a discussion on a
writing course about this subject and someone asked how long
Pratchett's chapters were. Only one person, in a group of fannish
wannabe writers, had noticed that he doesn't do chapters.
How long should a chapter be? how long would you like?
JF
Dorothy J Heydt
Nov 5, 2012, 11:06:29 AM11/5/12
to
In article <TeydnXUD9-up9grN...@brightview.co.uk>,
JF <jul...@oopsoopsfloodsclimbers.co.uk> wrote:
>
>In my pomp I once wrote two consecutive chapters which had the
>ratio 4.669. It was relevant, the novel was about the tiny things
>that can tilt history -- the Romans with steam one -- so I put it
>in for my own satisfaction. Otherwise I let things fall as they
>may, some short, some long.
>
>It doesn't matter. No-one will notice. We had a discussion on a
>writing course about this subject and someone asked how long
>Pratchett's chapters were. Only one person, in a group of fannish
>wannabe writers, had noticed that he doesn't do chapters.
Oh my gosh. Another Proust.
>
>In my pomp I once wrote two consecutive chapters which had the
>ratio 4.669. It was relevant, the novel was about the tiny things
>that can tilt history -- the Romans with steam one -- so I put it
>in for my own satisfaction. Otherwise I let things fall as they
>may, some short, some long.
>
>It doesn't matter. No-one will notice. We had a discussion on a
>writing course about this subject and someone asked how long
>Pratchett's chapters were. Only one person, in a group of fannish
>wannabe writers, had noticed that he doesn't do chapters.
Raymond Daley
Nov 5, 2012, 1:56:28 PM11/5/12
to
"John W Kennedy" <jwk...@attglobal.neg> wrote in message
news:885498692373647644.8119...@news.optonline.net...
event that takes place over 7 days. Each day would happen in a chapter and
then some shorter asides which are doing a little bit of revealing what
happens in the background and some flashbacks that tell you about the
characters as well.
Its hard to describe too much without spoiling it or giving a lot away.
I'm going with the notion that it's a good idea to start as close to the end
as possible.
If I can managed about 2500 words for each regular chapter then maybe 2000
words each for the other bits it should push me over 20,000 words.
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