Lot's Wife / Karla
Karla
Her mistake was literally
looking back at the holocaust of hearth.
The blood rushed from her
in the horrific centrifuge
spinning down minerals
into a block of salt.
We know no other name for her -
a possession in a land of sin,
a pillar in a has-been community,
our cautionary parable.
Recent excavations unearth tablets
of this tale and others
but of the running woman
stopped a few meters from inhospitality
nothing.
Who'd want to know
grass refused to grow
at her feet and
dappled deer returning
to parched earth
tongued her new essence
unto death?
Karla
rev. 5/24/09
Dale Houstman
The opening ("Her mistake was literally") is a bit weak, although I get
that you are trying to "literalize" a Biblical metaphor. I rather like
"holocaust of hearth" (even if the word "holocaust" is - at this end of
WWII - a bit "owned"): it is a nice enjambment of disaster and
homeyness. You pick this "home" motif up again in "inhospitality"
All in all, a rather neat retelling with a touch of modern historical
pathos.
The last 4 lines do (slightly) bring to mind some jokes about Lot's wife
as a salt-lick, but I suppose it's not overly damaging to the serious of
the theme. And the mild punning around "pillar of the community" is
perhaps striking an incorrect tone. And "dappled deer" is a bit tired.
A Lot Of Wife
Her mistake is literature:
a backward gaze at hearth's holocaust,
as blood boiled from her
in that centrifuge
leaving what was most bitter,
a salt so far from sea.
Even her chattel name is fossil -
she was possessed in municipal sin,
tied by ankle and breast to a community,
and now our cautionary parable,
still exploited.
Recent labors unearthed tablets
of this fable and others,
but of the hesitating woman
paused some perilous distance from inhospitality
nothing.
But who would want to know
where grass refused to grow
in the shallows of footprints,
and
daring deer returned
again and again to well-scorched earth
to erode her new body
unto nothing?
Will Dockery
Nice poem.
"...When asked for critique on a specific poem, Burroughs would answer
carefully, 'Why, I don't specifically think of it. I just rather like
it, is all...'."
--
"She Sleeps Tight", vocals by Will Dockery & Sandy Madaris, guitars by
Brian Mallard. Paintings by George Sulzbach:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uGY157cpiU
msifg
>
> - Show quoted text -
nice quote.
Will Dockery
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> nice quote.
Quite appropriate, wot?
Karla
Hi Dale, thanks for your read and comments. I wasn't aware of Lot's wife as
salt-lick joke. That's unfortunate on my part.
>A Lot Of Wife
I positively love your title. Got a LOL out of me!
>Her mistake is literature:
>a backward gaze at hearth's holocaust,
>as blood boiled from her
>in that centrifuge
>leaving what was most bitter,
>a salt so far from sea.
>
>Even her chattel name is fossil -
>she was possessed in municipal sin,
>tied by ankle and breast to a community,
>and now our cautionary parable,
>still exploited.
>Recent labors unearthed tablets
>of this fable and others,
>but of the hesitating woman
>paused some perilous distance from inhospitality
>nothing.
>
>But who would want to know
>where grass refused to grow
>in the shallows of footprints,
>and
>daring deer returned
>again and again to well-scorched earth
>to erode her new body
>unto nothing?
Nice work on the last lines. Not sure about "daring deer" with it's near syn
sister, "daring do". But your added "new body" jangles nicely with New Testament
notions.
What fun!
Karla
Karla
wrote:
A nice quote to have around when one doesn't feel like commenting. I doubt
Burroughs meant it as a 'get out of jail free' card for those who can't.
Thanks for reading, Will.
Karla
Karla
wrote:
>On May 31, 8:03�pm, msifg <qoph...@gmail.com> wrote:
Appropriate for rec.arts.poems maybe? Not so appropriate for
alt.arts.poetry.COMMENTS
Karla
Will Dockery
> On Sun, 31 May 2009 16:47:53 -0700 (PDT), Will Dockery wrote:
>
> >"...When asked for critique on a specific poem, Burroughs would answer
> >carefully, 'Why, I don't specifically think of it. I just rather like
> >it, is all...'."
>
> A nice quote to have around when one doesn't feel like commenting.
I've always liked it, and it was given in response to such perfect
poets as Ginsberg, Kerouac and Corso, not just some two-bit Usenet
internet wannabes, either.
> I doubt
> Burroughs meant it as a 'get out of jail free' card for those who can't.
I don't suppose he'll be arguing much about it, though. I'll wager
there's a pretty good one from the master poet Bukowski almost as
good, also.
> Thanks for reading, Will.
It was a pleasure, Karla.
--
"...When asked for critique on a specific poem, Burroughs would answer
carefully, 'Why, I don't specifically think of it. I just rather like
it, is all...'." -Ann Charters
George Dance
I think you deserve an OBpoem rather than a critique here. However, it
will probably take me a while to write one. Hence this short note
instead, to tell you I read and appreciated.
I thought some of the words ("literally," "centrifuge") would be more
at home in an essay than a poem; but that's my only complaint, and
it's quibbling as much as anything to mention them. I do only to give
you the benefit of having that opinion rather than keep it to myself.
Dale Houstman
I think I've heard versions of this joke some few times (mainly by
Jewish comedians on Ed Sullivan's old old show perhaps?). But - given
the subject matter and what you hope to achieve with it, it may be
unavoidable.
>
>> A Lot Of Wife
>
> I positively love your title. Got a LOL out of me!
A joke only of course: I couldn't help myself. Again - it's the sort of
thing a comic on Sullivan's show might have tossed out. NOT appropriate
to this treatment in the end.
Yes - well - the "daring deer" was admittedly a rush job. But somewhere
along those lines perhaps, avoiding "dappled" but retaining the consonance?
>
> What fun!
>
Glad you enjoyed it...
dmh
Barbara's Cat
> quack
> two-bit Usenet internet wannabes
> quack
--
Cm~
How to make Goober Duck quack:
1. Type a sentence that contains truth.
2. Click "Send".
Karla
I'm glad you got me thinking about the adjective. Since the deer
couldn't care less about the morality of it, I'm thinking maybe
"heedless" which would pull double duty. I get the "d" sound free! Is
it too much of a tongue twister: heedless deer?
Will Dockery
>
> 1. Type a sentence that contains truth.
I typed several sentences that contain truth, but you accidentally
snipped them, Barbie:
Karla
You and Dale both commented on "literally" which means I'll have to
think about it!
Thanks for reading and commenting.
Karla
Will Dockery
>msifg wrote:
>>Will Dockery wrote:
>
> >> > "...When asked for critique on a specific poem, Burroughs would answer
> >> > carefully, 'Why, I don't specifically think of it. I just rather like
> >> > it, is all...'."
>
> >> > --
> >> > "She Sleeps Tight", vocals by Will Dockery & Sandy Madaris, guitars by
>
> >> > - Show quoted text -
>
> >> nice quote.
>
> >Quite appropriate, wot?
>
> Appropriate for rec.arts.poems maybe? Not so appropriate for
> alt.arts.poetry.COMMENTS
Another good reason to post the poem seperately to each group, maybe?
Karla
> On Jun 1, 12:24 am, Karla <karl...@NEVERcomcast.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >msifg wrote:
> >>Will Dockery wrote:
>
> > >> > "...When asked for critique on a specific poem, Burroughs would answer
> > >> > carefully, 'Why, I don't specifically think of it. I just rather like
> > >> > it, is all...'."
>
> > >> > --
> > >> > "She Sleeps Tight", vocals by Will Dockery & Sandy Madaris, guitars by
>
> > >> > - Show quoted text -
>
> > >> nice quote.
>
> > >Quite appropriate, wot?
>
> > Appropriate for rec.arts.poems maybe? Not so appropriate for
> > alt.arts.poetry.COMMENTS
>
> Another good reason to post the poem seperately to each group, maybe?
Nah, I'm good with posting my poems to both and pretty much know what
to expect from you. One day, you might surprise me! You know, comments
are a giving act. Someone who reads thoughtfully, reports back what
works, what doesn't and why, makes suggestions, demonstrates a close
read is helping the writer. Not commenting is rather selfish. But,
whatever! I learn from commenting.
Karla
Will Dockery
>
> I'm good with posting my poems to both and pretty much know what
> to expect from you.
Likewise.
--
"...When asked for critique on a specific poem, Burroughs would answer
carefully, 'Why, I don't specifically think of it. I just rather like
it, is all...'." -Ann Charters
Karla
> On Jun 1, 5:51 pm, Karla <karl...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> > I'm good with posting my poems to both and pretty much know what
> > to expect from you.
>
> Likewise.
It wasn't always that way. If someone seems like they're sticking
around, I'll spend time commenting two or three times and then not if
the courtesy isn't returned.
Karla
Will Dockery
> On Jun 1, 2:56 pm, Will Dockery wrote:
> > On Jun 1, 5:51 pm, Karla <karl...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > > I'm good with posting my poems to both and pretty much know what
> > > to expect from you.
>
> > Likewise.
>
> It wasn't always that way. If someone seems like they're sticking
> around, I'll spend time commenting two or three times
I don't remember those comments, except for the comparison you made
between Meat Plow's work and mine. I wouldn't mind if you reminded me.
and then not if
> the courtesy isn't returned.
I've made lengthy (for me) comments on at least two of your poems in
the past, and may well do that again.
--
Barbara's Cat
> QUACK!
--
Cm~
"I win."
- Will Dockery
getting nowhere,
gaining nothing,
again.
msifg
hey, catwoman-
how about commenting on some poetry, here and there, in between the
rants, eh?
wanna guess where i got this from?
i'll give you a hint:
alt.arts.POETRY.COMMENTS
ain't it a doozy?
Dale Houstman
>> Yes - well - the "daring deer" was admittedly a rush job. But somewhere
>> along those lines perhaps, avoiding "dappled" but retaining the consonance?
>
> I'm glad you got me thinking about the adjective. Since the deer
> couldn't care less about the morality of it, I'm thinking maybe
> "heedless" which would pull double duty. I get the "d" sound free! Is
> it too much of a tongue twister: heedless deer?
>
>>> What fun!
>> Glad you enjoyed it...
>>
>> dmh
"Heedless" fits the bill of retaining the reiterated "d" (although one
might wonder if that is crucial), but it loses the sensual concreteness
of "dappled" (no matter how tired its usage is here). Also, "heedless"
isn't quite "disinterested" - it has a ring of moral judgment to it. In
that regard (of course) "disinterested" fits both the sought-after
emotional effect and the "d" but is still lacking sensuality. At this
point (setting the linguistic problem aside for a while) I have to ask
(in all ignorance) if there ARE indeed deer which inhabit the site? Or
another animal? I really don't know, but it would of course affect the
choices available. But - back to the conundrum: I think retention of the
doubled "d" is not a critical as the selection of a sensual adjective
(or - also - some longer solution via a phrase) which gives more form to
these deer and also paints them as "disinterested" (as animals are wont
to be in the face of human mythology!). Now one COULD label them
directly as "amoral" but that lacks "it-ness" and - at any rate - is
often read as "immoral" by many. "Edenic" or some such is Biblical,
smacks of mindless innocence, and even has a "d," but this is so long
after the Fall isn't it? Some phrases not directly naming the deer but
metaphorizing them in a construct containing "Eden" or "Paradise" etc.
All ideas without a solution as of yet. Hope the blather helps.
dmh
Will Dockery
>
> --
> Cm~
>
> "I win."
> - Will Dockery
"We know."
> getting nowhere,
> gaining nothing,
> again.
About the same place you were in last year, the year before, et cetera
then, Barbie? No surprise, there.
--
Will Dockery
Poor Barbie, she has no art. no poetry. and no worthwhile comments.
not even any alt. --- she does seem to be a rec. though.
--
"Shadowville Speedway" and other song-poems:
http://www.myspace.com/willdockery
msifg
>
> - Show quoted text -
well, considering this is karla's poem, and BC has shown that she's
not interested in contributing to the discussion of the poem, i would
say that she is trolling. what other term can be used?
just another example of a flame troll fanning the fire.
unfortunately, it has become part of the "entertainment" around here.
as a result, poetry suffers.
Will Dockery
> On Jun 1, 6:17 pm, Will Dockery wrote:
> > On Jun 1, 7:50 pm, msifg wrote:
> > > On Jun 1, 4:39 pm, Barbara's Cat <c...@XSPAMscientist.com> wrote:
>
> > > > --
> > > > Cm~
>
> > > > "I win."
> > > > - Will Dockery
>
> > > > getting nowhere,
> > > > gaining nothing,
> > > > again.
>
> > > hey, catwoman-
> > > how about commenting on some poetry, here and there, in between the
> > > rants, eh?
>
> > > wanna guess where i got this from?
>
> > > i'll give you a hint:
>
> > > alt.arts.POETRY.COMMENTS
>
> > > ain't it a doozy?
>
> > Poor Barbie, she has no art. no poetry. and no worthwhile comments.
> > not even any alt. --- she does seem to be a rec. though.
>
> > --
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> well, considering this is karla's poem, and BC has shown that she's
> not interested in contributing to the discussion of the poem, i would
> say that she is trolling. what other term can be used?
>
> just another example of a flame troll fanning the fire.
>
> unfortunately, it has become part of the "entertainment" around here.
>
> as a result, poetry suffers.
Doubtful that Barbie even saw the poem... she's just sniffing for
names.
Will Dockery
> On Jun 1, 3:48 am, George Dance wrote:
>
> > I thought some of the words ("literally," "centrifuge") would be more
> > at home in an essay than a poem; but that's my only complaint, and
> > it's quibbling as much as anything to mention them. I do only to give
> > you the benefit of having that opinion rather than keep it to myself.- Hide quoted text -
>
> You and Dale both commented on "literally"
Yeah, I'll add the comment that some of the poem is kind of awkward,
and cutting bits like "literally", "hearth" and so on would give it a
better flow if you were to be in a situation of reading or performing
it.
Gwyneth
Hi Karla,
I often can't get a handle on your poetry, so it's
good to find one that I feel capable of c&c-ing.
Follow me down:
> Lot's Wife
>
> Her mistake was literally
> looking back at the holocaust of hearth.
'literally' isn't a problem for me: you are using it
correctly and emphasising that use. What does bother
me is how L1 reads. You use little punctuation
throughout, but separating off 'literally' between
commas would help the pausing for me and add a further
stress on how I'd come to 'looking back'.
I agree with Dale about 'holocaust of hearth'. I think,
though, that the contemporary connotations of 'holocaust'
outweigh the strength of the phrase.
> The blood rushed from her
> in the horrific centrifuge
I wonder what 'horrific' adds.
Do you need both'centrifuge' and 'spinning'?
> spinning down minerals
> into a block of salt.
A good image. The two lines are simple and
get the point across clearly and powerfully.
>
> We know no other name for her -
wordy.
In fact, I find an imbalance in the language throughout
as it ranges between the functional and the literary.
> a possession in a land of sin,
> a pillar in a has-been community,
That pun/ reworked clich� doesn't bother me.
> our cautionary parable.
> Recent excavations unearth tablets
prosaic.
> of this tale and others
> but of the running woman
'the running woman' is a good phrase. Not sure it
works here, though, as sounds like it's the title
of a painting (or a Holmes story!).
> stopped a few meters from inhospitality
> nothing.
Don't like that 'nothing' on a line of its own:
it seems a cheap poetical trick.
>
> Who'd want to know
> grass refused to grow
> at her feet and
Not sure about breaking on 'and'.
Again, the image here is very powerful.
> dappled deer returning
> to parched earth
> tongued her new essence
> unto death?
Again, Dale's comments are interesting.
(I didn't know the salt-lick jokes, so wasn't
in the least distracted by that aspect.)
'dappled' is probably lazy.
I think 'unto death' is a weak ending: the
'unto' is one of those language style problems
for me, and 'death' is a problem as she is
already dead.
Over all, I am not sure about a number of the
line breaks and the language register/style
isn't clear.
But those two specific and powerful images made
it a good read.
Thanks for posting.
g.
>
> Karla
> rev. 5/24/09
Rob Evans
"msifg" <qop...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:476a34f0-38d5-4258...@a36g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
On Jun 1, 4:39 pm, Barbara's Cat <c...@XSPAMscientist.com> wrote:
> Goober Duck Will "Compelled to Quack" Dockery quacked:
>
> > QUACK!
>
> --
> Cm~
>
> "I win."
> - Will Dockery
> getting nowhere,
> gaining nothing,
> again.
hey, catwoman-
ah, an ad hominfem.
Rob
--
Rob Evans
-----------
When I see a swine,
I reach for 45-calibre pearls
--
Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service
------->>>>>>http://www.NewsDemon.com<<<<<<------
Unlimited Access, Anonymous Accounts, Uncensored Broadband Access
Will Dockery
> "msifg" wrote:
> On Jun 1, 4:39 pm, Barbara's Cat <c...@XSPAMscientist.com> wrote:
>
> > --
> > Cm~
>
> > "I win."
> > - Will Dockery
> > getting nowhere,
> > gaining nothing,
> > again.
>
> hey, catwoman-
>
> ah, an ad hominfem.
And another worthless Rob "Mushmouth" Evans post.
--
Rob Evans
>>
>> > --
>> > Cm~
>>
>> > "I win."
>> > - Will Dockery
>> > getting nowhere,
>> > gaining nothing,
>> > again.
>>
>> hey, catwoman-
>>
>> ah, an ad hominfem.
>
> And another worthless Rob "Mushmouth" Evans post.
>
that need hosing off the sidewalk, your opinion is understandable.
Even if somewhat sad, green and Duckry.
msifg
> "msifg" <qoph...@gmail.com> wrote in message
ah,
a contribution to the group that has something to do with POETRY.
Peter J Ross
Will Dockery <will.d...@gmail.com> wrote:
> "Rob Evans" <mushmouth-poet @liar.com> wrote:
>> "msifg" wrote:
>> On Jun 1, 4:39 pm, Barbara's Cat <c...@XSPAMscientist.com> wrote:
>>
>> > --
>> > Cm~
>>
>> > "I win."
>> > - Will Dockery
>> > getting nowhere,
>> > gaining nothing,
>> > again.
>>
>> hey, catwoman-
>>
>> ah, an ad hominfem.
>
> And another worthless Rob "Mushmouth" Evans post.
The Duck has squeezed out another egg.
Like all the others, it's ad dled.
--
PJR :-)
Karla
You're not leading by example. Since your aapc proposal, I've read
maybe 1 comment on poetry to how many non-poetry posts or non-poetry
comments threads?
Will Dockery
>Will Dockery wrote:
>
> >> > --
> >> > Cm~
>
> >> > "I win."
> >> > - Will Dockery
> >> > getting nowhere,
> >> > gaining nothing,
> >> > again.
>
> >> hey, catwoman-
>
> >> ah, an ad hominfem.
>
> > And another worthless Rob "Mushmouth" Evans post.
>
> oh dear, poor Will's upset by playing with words.
Wrong, Mushmouth, in fact, just the opposite... that's what makes your
posts so worthless, they're /boring/ not "upsetting" in the least.
And that's /your/ problem.
--
Check out some of my newer work to kind of see where I'm going, these
days, and let me know... I think we could turn this into something
pretty interesting:
"Ashes to Justice":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzwD5-UI0p4
"Twilight Girl":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYETTK16jQI
"She Sleeps Tight"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uGY157cpiU
Rob Evans
Our resident king dumbass squits...
>>
>> >> > --
>> >> > Cm~
>>
>> >> > "I win."
>> >> > - Will Dockery
>> >> > getting nowhere,
>> >> > gaining nothing,
>> >> > again.
>>
>> >> hey, catwoman-
>>
>> >> ah, an ad hominfem.
>>
>> > And another worthless Rob "Mushmouth" Evans post.
>>
>> oh dear, poor Will's upset by playing with words.
>
> Wrong, Mushmouth, in fact, just the opposite... that's what makes your
> posts so worthless, they're /boring/ not "upsetting" in the least.
>
> And that's /your/ problem.
>
And your problem is that "boring" apparently brings you running. Still, at
least it's time you don't spend scribbling your unspeakable shit "lyrics".
Will Dockery
>Will Dockery wrote:
>
> >> >> > --
> >> >> > Cm~
>
> >> >> > "I win."
> >> >> > - Will Dockery
> >> >> > getting nowhere,
> >> >> > gaining nothing,
> >> >> > again.
>
> >> >> hey, catwoman-
>
> >> >> ah, an ad hominfem.
>
> >> > And another worthless Rob "Mushmouth" Evans post.
>
> >> oh dear, poor Will's upset by playing with words.
>
> > Wrong, Mushmouth, in fact, just the opposite... that's what makes your
> > posts so worthless, they're /boring/ not "upsetting" in the least.
>
> > And that's /your/ problem.
>
> And your problem is that "boring"
Means you're running out of steam again, but you can't stop
obsessively sniffing behind me.
"We know."
Karla
I agree with your reservations regarding "heedless". It suggests
something outside the moral dwelling now destroyed but it also carries
a moral tone. I'm still thinking about it, the word, and it's too bad
about "dappled" because it conveys a sunny afterward. I'm presently
trying on "abiding" which is fairly loaded but sunny also. Your
blather helps - blather of this sort is aapc.
Thanks,
Karla
Will Dockery
> On Jun 2, 5:04 am, msifg wrote:
>
> > ah,
> > a contribution to the group that has something to do with POETRY.- Hide quoted text -
>
> You're not leading by example. Since your aapc proposal, I've read
> maybe 1 comment on poetry to how many non-poetry posts or non-poetry
> comments threads?
It was a good idea he had, though, don't you think? Sort of like our
"truce" of a couple of years ago... which I hope is still on, Karla?
Leisha
> Lot's Wife
>
> Her mistake was literally
> looking back at the holocaust of hearth.
> in the horrific centrifuge
> into a block of salt.
I like the "horrific centrifuge." For me, it smacks of Yeats. But hey,
aim high. :-)
I love the centrifuge as an imagining of how she transforms, and it's
great to describe it physically, since a lot of people believe Bible
events actually occurred. How? That's an interesting question and I'm
glad you address it.
>
> We know no other name for her -
> a possession in a land of sin,
> a pillar in a has-been community,
> our cautionary parable.
> Recent excavations unearth tablets
> of this tale and others
> but of the running woman
> stopped a few meters from inhospitality
> nothing.
"a few meters from inhospitality" stops me, too. Is the inhospitality
what she is running from? My recollection of this story is that she
got up into some foothills before she looked back, so was farther than
a few meters away. Also, if "inhospitality" refers to Sodom, it's a
gross understatement as compared to "holocaust." If "inhospitality" is
where she was going, and she was just a few meters away, it still
doesn't work. I don't remember their destination or whether it was
hospitable or not, but I doubt they were a few meters from it and I
think they were just running for their lives, per God's instruction.
>
> Who'd want to know
> grass refused to grow
> at her feet and
> dappled deer returning
> to parched earth
> tongued her new essence
> unto death?
"Who'd want to know" feels like it's there just to rhyme with "grow,"
and sudden short lines with rhyme changes the form from its earlier
length & freedom. That's fine, because the poem must turn as it
descends to its ending, its conclusion. But the conclusion is a
question. "Who'd want to know?" Well, we all want to know, so does the
speaker point at me, in a way, as God points to Lot and his family &
says "You. Yeah, you"?
I agree with other critics of "dappled deer." Aiming high again, and
it's funny, because the association I have is obviously with Hopkins'
"In Praise of Dappled Things," a poem written by a priest! Again, aim
high.
It falls apart at the end, as she falls apart, right? Literary figures
dissemble, and it's good when they collapse under their own weight, I
think. In keeping with your allusion to Hopkins, being tongued to
death is erotic, but eros in a religious context where you may safely
indulge yourself in the pleasures of life -- sex, salt. But is that
the whole, legitimate point of the poem, or did it happen
accidentally? Asking a question and not answering? Lots of poems turn
on questions, but I think you need to think through & rewrite the
final stanza. The deer is too cute & probably doesn't belong there.
This website, http://jwa.org/encyclopedia/article/lots-wife-midrash-and-aggadah,
claims that Lot's wife doesn't melt away. Instead oxen lick her every
day and every morning she's restored to her previous height. That
itself is a kind of hell; she's required to stand forever as a warning
to obey that jealous & angry Old Testament god!
So, maybe you need an ox. :-)
HTH,
Leisha
>
> Karla
> rev. 5/24/09
Will Dockery
> Will Dockery wrote:
> > "Rob Evans" <mushmouth-poet @liar.com> wrote:
> >> "msifg" wrote:
>
> >> hey, catwoman-
>
> >> ah, an ad hominfem.
>
> > And another worthless Rob "Mushmouth" Evans post.
>
And Mushmouth made egg salad, which it sounds like he has his mouth
stuffed full of.
--
Check out some of my newer work to kind of see where I'm going, these
days, and let me know... I think we could turn this into something
pretty interesting:
"She Sleeps Tight"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uGY157cpiU
Peter J Ross
Will Dockery <will.d...@gmail.com> wrote:
<...>
Dockery's brief lies were nothing if not ab rupt.
Gur sha guvat nobhg guvf tnzr vf gung gur vyyvgrengrf unir ab vqrn
gung vg'f n tnzr. Gurl'er inthryl njner gung jr'er znxvat sha bs gurz,
ohg gurl'er abg fher ubj jr'er qbvat vg.
msifg
>
> - Show quoted text -
hi karla,
sorry...i'm doing the best i can. i wish i could do more. however,
in
order to stay a participant in this group, i must engage in a dialog
with the trolls that frequent here. in the process, there's a risk
that
i'm contradicting myself.
suffice it to say, i need all the help i can get. this is a battle
for poetry.
not only may i loose this battle, i may also become more of a
laughing
stock than i already appear to be among the trolls.
i never wanted to make this about me. i firmly believe i can learn
from
the veterans of aapc. i'm a mere recruit. i admit that. however,
i also admit that poetry it my interest here. i came to that
understanding
only after experimenting with trollish behavior myself. i realize i
don't
like it. i never want to return.
i'll follow anyone who has a plan to rid aapc of trollish behavior.
however, i don't think that's possible given the fact that it's an
unmoderated forum. in the meantime, i'm trying to remain resilient
through the slanderous lies and defamatory statements hurled at me.
and, i'm sorry for my rudeness to you in the past. you did not
deserve that.
although i don't agree with your anit-troll tactics, i believe you
would
like things to be more about poetry as well.
can we find a common ground and go from there?
i'm willing to try. if not, i'll see you back where aapc
is a troll stomping ground. from there, we can just trudge on.
Peter J Ross
In alt.arts.poetry.comments on Sun, 31 May 2009 14:54:42 -0700, Karla
<kar...@NEVERcomcast.net> wrote:
> Lot's Wife
>
> Her mistake was literally
> looking back at the holocaust of hearth.
> The blood rushed from her
> in the horrific centrifuge
> spinning down minerals
> into a block of salt.
You've been told what's wrong with "literally" and "holocaust". But
the horridness of "horrific" may not have been mentioned yet. It's all
a bit Boris Karloff, isn't it?
But the big problem so far is that nothing interesting has been said
about the poem's principal character. Instead, it's mostly a
discussion of what happened to her blood.
> We know no other name for her -
> a possession in a land of sin,
> a pillar in a has-been community,
> our cautionary parable.
Tedious. This could easily be an extract from one of John Donne's
sermons. They're excellent sermons, as sermons go, but they're
*prose*.
There's potential here, but I think you've somehow not got it right
yet.
> Recent excavations unearth tablets
> of this tale and others
Still tedious - six lines of tediousness and counting.
> but of the running woman
> stopped a few meters from inhospitality
> nothing.
At last! Poetry!
(And I have no objection to "nothing" having a line of its own when it
doesn't have some special significance but merely means "nothing".)
>
> Who'd want to know
> grass refused to grow
> at her feet and
> dappled deer returning
> to parched earth
> tongued her new essence
> unto death?
All tedious again. Dappled deer, parched earth. Such phrases don't
belong in a poem, and neither do linebreaks that result in anything
like "at her feet and".
I enjoyed reading it, but I didn't think it was one of your best.
Dale Houstman
>
> This website, http://jwa.org/encyclopedia/article/lots-wife-midrash-and-aggadah,
> claims that Lot's wife doesn't melt away. Instead oxen lick her every
> day and every morning she's restored to her previous height. That
> itself is a kind of hell; she's required to stand forever as a warning
> to obey that jealous & angry Old Testament god!
>
It's amazing how mythologies will begin to interbreed after a time: this
scenario of eternal reformation of the punishment goes back at least as
far as the ancient Greeks, where any number of horrific punishments are
revitalized each day. One thinks most easily of Prometheus who has his
liver reformed each time an eagle eats it. I suppose one might claim
that the angry little gods are just trying out new ways of feeding the
larger birds, as Jehovah might have wanted to keep the oxen salty. But
if she is still there one wonders where? A tourist attraction in the
offing...
dmh
Will Dockery
>
> Gur sha guvat nobhg guvf tnzr vf gung gur vyyvgrengrf unir ab vqrn
> gung vg'f n tnzr. Gurl'er inthryl njner gung jr'er znxvat sha bs gurz,
> ohg gurl'er abg fher ubj jr'er qbvat vg.
Zhfg znxr lbh fnq naq sehfgengrq jura lbh ybfr fb znal bs gur ebhaqf
va guvf tnzr, gura, nz V evtug? Xrrc cynlvat, naq qba'g sbetrg gb
qrpyner lbhe vzntvanel ivpgbel rneyl naq bsgra, Crgre.
--
"She Sleeps Tight" by Will Dockery & Brian Mallard (video):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uGY157cpiU
Karla
>Karla wrote:
>
>Hi Karla,
>
>I often can't get a handle on your poetry, so it's
>good to find one that I feel capable of c&c-ing.
Hi Gwyneth,
I appreciate it. Glad this one is a bit more accessible.
>Follow me down:
>
>
>> Lot's Wife
>>
>> Her mistake was literally
>> looking back at the holocaust of hearth.
>
>'literally' isn't a problem for me: you are using it
>correctly and emphasising that use. What does bother
>me is how L1 reads. You use little punctuation
>throughout, but separating off 'literally' between
>commas would help the pausing for me and add a further
>stress on how I'd come to 'looking back'.
Yes, I see what you mean.
>I agree with Dale about 'holocaust of hearth'. I think,
>though, that the contemporary connotations of 'holocaust'
>outweigh the strength of the phrase.
It's risky, ya. I'm undecided.
>
>> The blood rushed from her
>> in the horrific centrifuge
>
>I wonder what 'horrific' adds.
>Do you need both'centrifuge' and 'spinning'?
>
>> spinning down minerals
>> into a block of salt.
Well, another place for a comma, after centrifuge. I do think I need both but
you made me re-think it. Thanks.
>A good image. The two lines are simple and
>get the point across clearly and powerfully.
Thanks.
>>
>> We know no other name for her -
>wordy.
>
>In fact, I find an imbalance in the language throughout
>as it ranges between the functional and the literary.
I'm still taking that in.
>> a possession in a land of sin,
>> a pillar in a has-been community,
>
>That pun/ reworked clich� doesn't bother me.
>
>> our cautionary parable.
>> Recent excavations unearth tablets
>prosaic.
>> of this tale and others
>> but of the running woman
>'the running woman' is a good phrase. Not sure it
>works here, though, as sounds like it's the title
>of a painting (or a Holmes story!).
Maybe it's the wrong tone but the distance scholary tone is deliberate.
>> stopped a few meters from inhospitality
>> nothing.
>Don't like that 'nothing' on a line of its own:
>it seems a cheap poetical trick.
>
>>
>> Who'd want to know
>> grass refused to grow
>> at her feet and
>Not sure about breaking on 'and'.
>Again, the image here is very powerful.
>
>> dappled deer returning
>> to parched earth
>> tongued her new essence
>> unto death?
>
>Again, Dale's comments are interesting.
>(I didn't know the salt-lick jokes, so wasn't
>in the least distracted by that aspect.)
>
>'dappled' is probably lazy.
>
>I think 'unto death' is a weak ending: the
>'unto' is one of those language style problems
>for me, and 'death' is a problem as she is
>already dead.
Perhaps my functionary/literary problem works against me here. The "unto" is
meant to echo the biblical vernacular; and, of course, "death" with it is too.
But the death isn't literal.
>Over all, I am not sure about a number of the
>line breaks and the language register/style
>isn't clear.
>
>But those two specific and powerful images made
>it a good read.
>Thanks for posting.
I really appreciate your careful, close read. This poem isn't done - I have a
lot of thinking to do.
Thanks!
Karla
>g.
>>
>> Karla
>> rev. 5/24/09
Karla
wrote:
>On May 31, 2:54�pm, Karla <karl...@NEVERcomcast.net> wrote:
>> � � � � � � � � Lot's Wife
>>
>> � � � � � � � � Her mistake was literally
>> � � � � � � � � looking back at the holocaust of hearth.
>> � � � � � � � � The blood rushed from her
>> � � � � � � � � in the horrific centrifuge
>> � � � � � � � � spinning down minerals
>> � � � � � � � � into a block of salt.
>Hi, Karla,
Hiya Leisha,
Are your classes finished for the summer?
>I like the "horrific centrifuge." For me, it smacks of Yeats. But hey,
>aim high. :-)
No complaints here. Do you know what Yeats or is it just a general reminder?
>I love the centrifuge as an imagining of how she transforms, and it's
>great to describe it physically, since a lot of people believe Bible
>events actually occurred. How? That's an interesting question and I'm
>glad you address it.
>
>>
>> � � � � � � � � We know no other name for her -
>> � � � � � � � � a possession in a land of sin,
>> � � � � � � � � a pillar in a has-been community,
>> � � � � � � � � our cautionary parable.
>> � � � � � � � � Recent excavations unearth tablets
>> � � � � � � � � of this tale and others
>> � � � � � � � � but of the running woman
>> � � � � � � � � stopped a few meters from inhospitality
>> � � � � � � � � nothing.
>
>"a few meters from inhospitality" stops me, too. Is the inhospitality
>what she is running from? My recollection of this story is that she
>got up into some foothills before she looked back, so was farther than
>a few meters away. Also, if "inhospitality" refers to Sodom, it's a
>gross understatement as compared to "holocaust." If "inhospitality" is
>where she was going, and she was just a few meters away, it still
>doesn't work. I don't remember their destination or whether it was
>hospitable or not, but I doubt they were a few meters from it and I
>think they were just running for their lives, per God's instruction.
Good questions! I looked up references to her running and found none for how
far. I used "inhospitality" because many biblical scholars argue that the sin of
Sodom and Gomorrah is one of inhospitality, based on Jesus's words to the
disciples in the Book of Matthew. So, she's running from the running hearth of
inhospitality.
>> � � � � � � � � Who'd want to know
>> � � � � � � � � grass refused to grow
>> � � � � � � � � at her feet and
>> � � � � � � � � dappled deer returning
>> � � � � � � � � to parched earth
>> � � � � � � � � tongued her new essence
>> � � � � � � � � unto death?
>
>"Who'd want to know" feels like it's there just to rhyme with "grow,"
>and sudden short lines with rhyme changes the form from its earlier
>length & freedom. That's fine, because the poem must turn as it
>descends to its ending, its conclusion. But the conclusion is a
>question. "Who'd want to know?" Well, we all want to know, so does the
>speaker point at me, in a way, as God points to Lot and his family &
>says "You. Yeah, you"?
>
>I agree with other critics of "dappled deer." Aiming high again, and
>it's funny, because the association I have is obviously with Hopkins'
>"In Praise of Dappled Things," a poem written by a priest! Again, aim
>high.
It seems "dappled" has to go. It's not fresh. Alas, not sure I'll find a
replacement but I'm leaning towards "abiding".
>It falls apart at the end, as she falls apart, right? Literary figures
>dissemble, and it's good when they collapse under their own weight, I
>think. In keeping with your allusion to Hopkins, being tongued to
>death is erotic, but eros in a religious context where you may safely
>indulge yourself in the pleasures of life -- sex, salt. But is that
>the whole, legitimate point of the poem, or did it happen
>accidentally? Asking a question and not answering? Lots of poems turn
>on questions, but I think you need to think through & rewrite the
>final stanza. The deer is too cute & probably doesn't belong there.
Interesting read of the final lines. I certainly will re-think the last part.
>This website, http://jwa.org/encyclopedia/article/lots-wife-midrash-and-aggadah,
>claims that Lot's wife doesn't melt away. Instead oxen lick her every
>day and every morning she's restored to her previous height. That
>itself is a kind of hell; she's required to stand forever as a warning
>to obey that jealous & angry Old Testament god!
>
>So, maybe you need an ox. :-)
I don't associate oxen with salt licks but who knows where this poem might end
up.
Thanks so much for reading and commenting. It's good to hear your voice again.
Karla
Will Dockery
>
> ah,
> a contribution to the group that has something to do with POETRY.
Maybe even a COMMENT.
Dale Houstman
> On Tue, 02 Jun 2009 07:28:47 +0200, Gwyneth <gwy...@patchword.com> wrote:
>> 'literally' isn't a problem for me: you are using it
>> correctly and emphasising that use. What does bother
>> me is how L1 reads. You use little punctuation
>> throughout, but separating off 'literally' between
>> commas would help the pausing for me and add a further
>> stress on how I'd come to 'looking back'.
>
> Yes, I see what you mean.
>
Although Gwyneth nails a particular problem with the reading, I am still
convinced that you actually shouldn't use "literally" there, no matter
how you place it, or whether or not you use it correctly, because it
draws too much attention (and far too soon) to the major interpretation
problem of reading the Bible: whether or not to take it "literally". In
the context of your theme, this is not a relevant consideration. Due to
this, it creates a cognitive dissonance that is not supportive of the
poem's meaning.
dmh
Rob Evans
>>
>> >> >> > --
>> >> >> > Cm~
>>
>> >> >> > "I win."
>> >> >> > - Will Dockery
>> >> >> > getting nowhere,
>> >> >> > gaining nothing,
>> >> >> > again.
>>
>> >> >> hey, catwoman-
>>
>> >> >> ah, an ad hominfem.
>>
>> >> > And another worthless Rob "Mushmouth" Evans post.
>>
>> >> oh dear, poor Will's upset by playing with words.
>>
>> > Wrong, Mushmouth, in fact, just the opposite... that's what makes your
>> > posts so worthless, they're /boring/ not "upsetting" in the least.
>>
>> > And that's /your/ problem.
>>
>> And your problem is that "boring"
>
> Means you're running out of steam again, but you can't stop
> obsessively sniffing behind me.
>
More unspeakable duckshit where black=white=so green...
Will Dockery
>Will Dockery wrote:
>
> >> >> > And another worthless Rob "Mushmouth" Evans post.
>
> >> >> oh dear, poor Will's upset by playing with words.
>
> >> > Wrong, Mushmouth, in fact, just the opposite... that's what makes your
> >> > posts so worthless, they're /boring/ not "upsetting" in the least.
>
> >> > And that's /your/ problem.
>
> >> And your problem is that "boring"
>
> > Means you're running out of steam again, but you can't stop
> > obsessively sniffing behind me.
>
> Look up thread
I did, Mushmouth, and knew before I looked.
> You followed me.
Wrong, Mushmouth, I posted here before you... in fact, you haven't
even made a single comment on the poem, so I'm also ahead of you on /
that/, as well.
Gwyneth
Hi Dale; hi Karla,
I actually hadn't thought much about the whole
"literal meaning of the Bible" issue in relation
to this poem.
I think it's a cultural thing: outside the USA,
I wonder just how much an issue that is and how
high it might be in the minds of any readers.
Now you've raised the point, Dale, (for which,
"thank you") I'm amazed I missed it.
A useful reminder of how cultural bias informs
our reading.
g.
Dale Houstman
You are probably correct: maybe only in the U.S. is there a high enough
percentage of people ignorant enough to think all those fairy tales can
be taken as "gospel truth" to make "literal reading" a cultural blip. I
sometimes feel that I am living in a nation full of country bumpkins:
slack jawed creationists, believers in flying saucers, and folks who
still think that "socialists" are their biggest enemies, rather than
Wal-Mart and Blue Cross. Oh well.
dmh
msifg
> Gwyneth wrote:
> > Dale Houstman wrote:
> >> Karla wrote:
>
> - Show quoted text -
flying saucers went out the window with hand cams and youtube.
that's only because no abductions or footage onboard
have been recorded. those old photographs don't
do it for joe public anymore.
Leisha
> >claims that Lot's wife doesn't melt away. Instead oxen lick her every
> >day and every morning she's restored to her previous height. That
> >itself is a kind of hell; she's required to stand forever as a warning
> >to obey that jealous & angry Old Testament god!
>
> >So, maybe you need an ox. :-)
>
> I don't associate oxen with salt licks but who knows where this poem might end
> up.
>
> Thanks so much for reading and commenting. It's good to hear your voice again.
>
> Karla
>
> >HTH,
>
> >Leisha
>
> >> Karla
> >> rev. 5/24/09
Hi, Karla,
Yes, my classes have been over since last winter term, I think. I was
in a kind of window between graduation and MFA, and I decided to quit
taking classes & just write & concentrate on preparing an MFA package
so I could try again for graduate school.
Meanwhile, I'm very busy at work, so very little time to swing by, but
I was happy to see a post of yours.
Leisha
Leisha
> Leisha wrote:
>
> > This website,http://jwa.org/encyclopedia/article/lots-wife-midrash-and-aggadah,
Another roadside attraction?
Leisha
Will Dockery
>
> flying saucers went out the window with hand cams and youtube.
> that's only because no abductions or footage onboard
> have been recorded. those old photographs don't
> do it for joe public anymore.
I did the poetry segment on an upcoming "spacerock" album called
"Flying Saucer Mechanic", though... but, yeah, the UFO things are
somewhat now a part of our rapidly aging modern mythology, even Star
Trek is nostalgia, these days.
--
"She Sleeps Tight", vocals by Will Dockery & Sandy Madaris, guitars by
Brian Mallard. Paintings by George Sulzbach:
Dale Houstman
Come and see the "Human Salt Lick"! - 10th wonder of the world. She
won't talk back, and she can't leave you! Treat her like trash, and all
she will do is stand there attracting deer!
dmh
Will Dockery
>
> maybe only in the U.S. is there a high enough
> percentage of people ignorant enough to think all those fairy tales can
> be taken as "gospel truth" to make "literal reading" a cultural blip. I
> sometimes feel that I am living in a nation full of country bumpkins:
> slack jawed creationists, believers in flying saucers, and folks who
> still think that "socialists" are their biggest enemies, rather than
> Wal-Mart and Blue Cross.
A "post-art world of plagiarism and collage..."
George Dance
> On Tue, 2 Jun 2009 13:17:47 -0700 (PDT), Leisha <lei...@decisionresearch.org>
> wrote:
>
> >On May 31, 2:54 pm, Karla <karl...@NEVERcomcast.net> wrote:
> >> Lot's Wife
>
> >> Her mistake was literally
> >> looking back at the holocaust of hearth.
> >> The blood rushed from her
> >> in the horrific centrifuge
> >> spinning down minerals
> >> into a block of salt.
> >Hi, Karla,
>
> Hiya Leisha,
>
> Are your classes finished for the summer?
>
> >I like the "horrific centrifuge." For me, it smacks of Yeats. But hey,
> >aim high. :-)
>
> No complaints here. Do you know what Yeats or is it just a general reminder?
>
After Leisha mentioned Yeats (not before), I thought of the line
Turning and turning in the widening gyre
And have again, whenever I've reread your poem.
> >This website,http://jwa.org/encyclopedia/article/lots-wife-midrash-and-aggadah,
Leisha
Sex would be rough, though. & I thought we agreed on oxen rather than
deer. Salt-cured ox jerky, mmm.
Leisha
Leisha
Exactly that, George. "The centre cannot hold." If all the water and
tissue in her body spins out from a centrifuge, through all her veins,
say, and her guts, her spine, churning everything into salt, I'd say
some rough beast's hour has "come round at last."
Leisha
Dale Houstman
When It Rains, It Pours
When Lot's wife turned a salty old stump
Lot thought that he'd been a right chump
To marry a girl whom he'd dreamt was a pearl
But now could just spice up pig's rump.
dmh
Rob Evans
"Will Dockery" <will.d...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1e23ad2c-7ca6-4ad1...@t11g2000vbc.googlegroups.com...
> "Rob Evans" <mushmouthed-poet @liar.com> wrote:
>>Will Dockery wrote:
>>
>> >> >> > And another worthless Rob "Mushmouth" Evans post.
>>
>> >> >> oh dear, poor Will's upset by playing with words.
>>
>> >> > Wrong, Mushmouth, in fact, just the opposite... that's what makes
>> >> > your
>> >> > posts so worthless, they're /boring/ not "upsetting" in the least.
>>
>> >> > And that's /your/ problem.
>>
>> >> And your problem is that "boring"
>>
>> > Means you're running out of steam again, but you can't stop
>> > obsessively sniffing behind me.
>>
>> Look up thread
>
> I did, Mushmouth, and knew before I looked.
>
>> You followed me.
>
> Wrong, Mushmouth, I posted here before you...
You may have, lardarse, but I didn't join the thread to respond to YOU - I
responded to someone else. You then stuck your nose in to accuse me of
sniffing you. I know you want the language to turn inside out for your
benefit but unfortunately it's not Duckrish.
And you haven't "commented" on the "nice poem" in any meaningful way at all.
Because you're just kinda inadequate at language.
It's why you scribble unspeakable shit.
Will Dockery
> "Will Dockery" wrote:
> > "Rob Evans" <mushmouthed-poet @liar.com> wrote:
> >>Will Dockery wrote:
>
> >> >> >> > And another worthless Rob "Mushmouth" Evans post.
>
> >> >> >> oh dear, poor Will's upset by playing with words.
>
> >> >> > Wrong, Mushmouth, in fact, just the opposite... that's what makes
> >> >> > your
> >> >> > posts so worthless, they're /boring/ not "upsetting" in the least.
>
> >> >> > And that's /your/ problem.
>
> >> >> And your problem is that "boring"
>
> >> > Means you're running out of steam again, but you can't stop
> >> > obsessively sniffing behind me.
>
> >> Look up thread
>
> > I did, Mushmouth, and knew before I looked.
>
> >> You followed me.
>
> > Wrong, Mushmouth, I posted here before you...
>
> You may have
Not "may have", Mushmouth... I did.
On Jun 5, 3:28 pm, Peter J Ross <p...@example.invalid> wrote:
> In alt.arts.poetry.comments on Thu, 4 Jun 2009 19:26:33 -0700 (PDT),
>
> George Dance <georgedanc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> > ~Perfect Day~
>
> <...>
>
> It was very kind of Cat to give you permission to republish his work.
>
> Er... Cat *did* give you permission, I hope?
>
> I hope you know what will happen to your Google Groups access if you ever
> try this kind of game with me, Mr Thief.
Since reposting poetry posted here on Usenet is a practice such
notables as Gary Gamble have indulged in over the years, are you
declaring that Gamble can also be declared "Mr. Thief", PJR? Here, for
example, are his repeated reposts of another person's copyrighted
poem, which I suppose he might have gotten permission to republish a
half dozen or more times:
http://groups.google.com/groups/search?hl=en&qt_s=1&q=%22ggamble%22+%22fiddler+crabs%22
A couple of individual examples of ggamble's "republishing" of the
poetry of another poet, without any sign of permission being given to
him by the copyright holder:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.arts.poetry.comments/msg/1f104986e81270a3?hl=en&dmode=source
and
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.poems/msg/30d78f1e658987c7?hl=en&dmode=source
Well, this goes on and on, Gamble repeatedly reposting copryrighted
poetry without permission, with "Results 1 - 10 of about 54 for
"ggamble" "fiddler crabs"." for just this one poem... so, is the
suggested nickname for Gary Gamble "Mr. Thief", PJR?
--
"Ashes to Justice", vocals by Will Dockery & Sandy Madaris, guitars by
Brian Mallard. Words and music by Dockery & Mallard.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzwD5-UI0p4
Rob Evans
our resident king dumbass squirms...
>>
>> >> >> >> > And another worthless Rob "Mushmouth" Evans post.
>>
>> >> >> >> oh dear, poor Will's upset by playing with words.
>>
>> >> >> > Wrong, Mushmouth, in fact, just the opposite... that's what makes
>> >> >> > your
>> >> >> > posts so worthless, they're /boring/ not "upsetting" in the
>> >> >> > least.
>>
>> >> >> > And that's /your/ problem.
>>
>> >> >> And your problem is that "boring"
>>
>> >> > Means you're running out of steam again, but you can't stop
>> >> > obsessively sniffing behind me.
>>
>> >> Look up thread
>>
>> > I did, Mushmouth, and knew before I looked.
>>
>> >> You followed me.
>>
>> > Wrong, Mushmouth, I posted here before you...
>>
>> You may have
>
> Not "may have", Mushmouth... I did.
>
Will Dockery
>Will Dockery wrote:
>
> >> >> >> >> > And another worthless Rob "Mushmouth" Evans post.
>
> >> >> >> >> oh dear, poor Will's upset by playing with words.
>
> >> >> >> > Wrong, Mushmouth, in fact, just the opposite... that's what makes your
> >> >> >> > posts so worthless, they're /boring/ not "upsetting" in the least.
>
> >> >> >> > And that's /your/ problem.
>
> >> >> >> And your problem is that "boring"
>
> >> >> > Means you're running out of steam again, but you can't stop
> >> >> > obsessively sniffing behind me.
>
> >> >> Look up thread
>
> >> > I did, Mushmouth, and knew before I looked.
>
> >> >> You followed me.
>
> >> > Wrong, Mushmouth, I posted here before you...
>
> >> You may have
>
> > Not "may have", Mushmouth... I did.
>
No, Mushmouth, I /did/.
--
"Last Dream Today" performed live, some cool trumpet and saxophone
interplay between Riley Yielding & Sir Charles, video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSpYx8sSFP0
Rob Evans
>>
>> >> >> >> > Wrong, Mushmouth, in fact, just the opposite... that's what
>> >> >> >> > makes your
>> >> >> >> > posts so worthless, they're /boring/ not "upsetting" in the
>> >> >> >> > least.
>>
>> >> >> >> > And that's /your/ problem.
>>
>> >> >> >> And your problem is that "boring"
>>
>> >> >> > Means you're running out of steam again, but you can't stop
>> >> >> > obsessively sniffing behind me.
>>
>> >> >> Look up thread
>>
>> >> > I did, Mushmouth, and knew before I looked.
>>
>> >> >> You followed me.
>>
>> >> > Wrong, Mushmouth, I posted here before you...
>>
>> >> You may have
>>
>> > Not "may have", Mushmouth... I did.
>>
Will Dockery
>Will Dockery wrote:
>
> >> >> >> >> > Wrong, Mushmouth, in fact, just the opposite... that's what makes your
> >> >> >> >> > posts so worthless, they're /boring/ not "upsetting" in the least.
>
> >> >> >> >> > And that's /your/ problem.
>
> >> >> >> >> And your problem is that "boring"
>
> >> >> >> > Means you're running out of steam again, but you can't stop obsessively sniffing behind me.
>
>
>>>> Wrong, Mushmouth, I posted here before you...
>
>>> You may have
>
>> Not "may have", Mushmouth... I did.
>
Yet here you are, sniffing along as usual, Mushmouth.
Rob Evans
>>
>> >> >> >> >> > makes your
>> >> >> >> >> > posts so worthless, they're /boring/ not "upsetting" in the
>> >> >> >> >> > least.
>>
>> >> >> >> >> > And that's /your/ problem.
>>
>> >> >> >> >> And your problem is that "boring"
>>
>> >> >> >> > Means you're running out of steam again, but you can't stop
>> >> >> >> > obsessively sniffing behind me.
>>
>>>>>> You followed me.
>>
>>>>> Wrong, Mushmouth, I posted here before you...
>>
>>>> You may have
>>
>>> Not "may have", Mushmouth... I did.
>>
>> You may have, but I didn't join the thread to respond to YOU
no you responded to someone else and I didn't respond to your initial posts
at all.
No personal response is Duckrish for sniffing along, presumably.
>
I responded to someone else and you immediately responded to me.
This is English for YOU sniffing along, moron.
It's your circular stupidities that serve your unspeakable shit so well.
Will Dockery
>Will Dockery wrote:
>
>>>> Wrong, Mushmouth, in fact, just the opposite... that's what makes your
>>>> posts so worthless, they're /boring/ not "upsetting" in the least.
>
>>>> And that's /your/ problem. And your problem is that "boring"
>>>> obsessively sniffing behind me.
>
>>> You followed me.
>
>> Wrong, Mushmouth, I posted here before you...
>
I note you have yet to "respond" to the actual poem in any way... you
just find yourself slobbering over me and my posts, endlessly.
'
Thus proving my point, Mushmouth... come on back and drool some more.
You already have your hankie to wipe your chin with, I'm sure.
--
"She Sleeps Tight", vocals by Will Dockery & Sandy Madaris, guitars by
Brian Mallard. Paintings by George Sulzbach.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uGY157cpiU
Rob Evans
our resident king dumbass squits....
>>
>>>>> posts so worthless, they're /boring/ not "upsetting" in the least.
>>
>>>>> And that's /your/ problem. And your problem is that "boring"
>>>>> means you're running out of steam again, but you can't stop
>>>>> obsessively sniffing behind me.
>>
>>>> You followed me.
>>
>>> Wrong, Mushmouth, I posted here before you...
>>
>> no you responded to someone else and I didn't respond
>
> I note you have yet to "respond" to the actual poem in any way
You posted to me first - your the one slobbering.
As for my response - I think the poem's "kinda kewl".
I give you this extra string to your critiquing bow because, after all,
you're just kinda stoopid.
Will Dockery
>Will Dockery wrote:
>
> >>>>> posts so worthless, they're /boring/ not "upsetting" in the least.
>
> >>>>> And that's /your/ problem. And your problem is that "boring"
> >>>>> means you're running out of steam again, but you can't stop
> >>>>> obsessively sniffing behind me.
>
> >>>> You followed me.
>
> >>> Wrong, Mushmouth, I posted here before you...
>
> >> no you responded to someone else and I didn't respond
>
> > I note you have yet to "respond" to the actual poem in any way
>
> You posted to me first - your the one slobbering.
No, all I noted was your worthlessness on this thread, Mushmouth... at
this point you're so lost in your Dockery-sniffing that you don't even
communicate with anyone... not even me.
Rob Evans
>>
>> >>>>> Wrong, Mushmouth, in fact, just the opposite... that's what makes
>> >>>>> your
>> >>>>> posts so worthless, they're /boring/ not "upsetting" in the least.
>>
>> >>>>> And that's /your/ problem. And your problem is that "boring"
>> >>>>> means you're running out of steam again, but you can't stop
>> >>>>> obsessively sniffing behind me.
>>
>> >>>> You followed me.
>>
>> >>> Wrong, Mushmouth, I posted here before you...
>>
>> >> no you responded to someone else and I didn't respond
>>
>> > I note you have yet to "respond" to the actual poem in any way
>>
>> You posted to me first - your the one slobbering.
>
> No, all I noted was your worthlessness on this thread, Mushmouth...
That's duckrish for "I managed to note this without it actually counting as
a posting".
You're silly to the point of meaningless, lardarse, and it's why you
scribble unspeakable shit.
Rob
Will Dockery
>Will Dockery wrote:
>
> >> >>>>> your
> >> >>>>> posts so worthless, they're /boring/ not "upsetting" in the least.
>
> >> >>>>> And that's /your/ problem. And your problem is that "boring"
> >> >>>>> means you're running out of steam again, but you can't stop
> >> >>>>> obsessively sniffing behind me.
>
> >> >>>> You followed me.
>
> >> >>> Wrong, Mushmouth, I posted here before you...
>
> >> >> no you responded to someone else and I didn't respond
>
> >> > I note you have yet to "respond" to the actual poem in any way
>
> >> You posted to me first - your the one slobbering.
>
> > No, all I noted was your worthlessness on this thread, Mushmouth...
>
Just what you post day in and day out, Mushmouth: worthless garbage.
Rob Evans
>>
>> >> >>>>> makes
>> >> >>>>> your
>> >> >>>>> posts so worthless, they're /boring/ not "upsetting" in the
>> >> >>>>> least.
>>
>> >> >>>>> And that's /your/ problem. And your problem is that "boring"
>> >> >>>>> means you're running out of steam again, but you can't stop
>> >> >>>>> obsessively sniffing behind me.
>>
>> >> >>>> You followed me.
>>
>> >> >>> Wrong, Mushmouth, I posted here before you...
>>
>> >> >> no you responded to someone else and I didn't respond
>>
>> >> > I note you have yet to "respond" to the actual poem in any way
>>
>> >> You posted to me first - your the one slobbering.
>>
>> > No, all I noted was your worthlessness on this thread, Mushmouth...
>>
>> That's <slap>
>
It's the fear of language that causes you to scribble unspeakable shit.
So sad....
Will Dockery
>
> It's the fear of language <snip>
Don't be a afraid of language, Mushmouth, after all, your biggest
problem is in enunciation, not the language itself.
Rob Evans
>>
>> It's the fear of language <snip>
>
And why the poor lardarse is limited to scribbling unspeakable shit.
"Me Bleeps Shite", gargles by Duckry
Will Dockery
>
> that makes Dockery snip <slap>
Yet here /you/ are doing the snipping, you mushmouthed fool.
Rob Evans
"our resident king dumbass obliges...
>>
>> that makes Dockery snip <slap>
>
> Yet here /you/ are doing the snipping, you mushmouthed fool.
>
No wonder you scribble unspeakable shit.
So sad...
Will Dockery
>
> >> that makes Dockery snip <slap>
>
> > Yet here /you/ are doing the snipping, you mushmouthed fool.
>
You sure seem to be, old boy... maybe you need a hankie?
--
"She Sleeps Tight", vocals by Will Dockery & Sandy Madaris, guitars by
Brian Mallard. Paintings by George Sulzbach:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uGY157cpiU
Rob Evans
>
>
> > Yet here /you/ are doing the snipping
really? don't you mean <slapping>, you irony-deficient halfwit
lardarsed canard
continue to meet petard
and remain oblivious
So, so, sad...
=z=
"Rob Evans" <po...@sky.com> wrote in message
news:4a360d7d$0$5446$b9f6...@news.newsdemon.com...
> our resident king dumbass squits...
>>
>> >> that makes Dockery snip <slap>
>>
>> > Yet here /you/ are doing the snipping
>
> really? don't you mean <slapping>, you irony-deficient halfwit
>
> lardarsed canard
>
> continue to meet petard
>
> and remain oblivious
>
> So, so, sad...
you're no than a pussy that hides behind a bloody urinary tampon...rob
evans-down on the farm...you are a joke..and everyone here knows it and
mentions it once in a while about how much of a fucking retard you are...a
dipshit that doesn't even know it...that be you...a fucking british dumbass
with fucked up teeth and wolf pussy breath...not to mention a complete
dickhead...and no more than a stupid irish get with a bloated british
mouth...sieg heil asshole...
msifg
> "Rob Evans" <p...@sky.com> wrote in message
i have to agree with this assessment.
evans is hiding something...supposedly, he's let a couple
people in here on the "secret," and left the rest of
us in the lurch. it's some sort of inside joke that really
stinks to hell about now.
this joke is like a putrid fart that won't go away.
it only serves to irritate and frustrate other readers.
he has been around since the inception of aapc,
and hasn't shied away from telling people his views.
i just wish he would get off this dockery slapping
joy ride and get back to the theme of the group:
POETRY.
=z=
"msifg" <qop...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:5ed1149a-d8c6-40eb...@w35g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
i was kinda hoping that no one would see this post x-cept rob the
dickweed...it really only shows how i can stoop down to his level and really
show my ass as well...although i can't stand the bastard i don't like myself
for my attention to detail i pop off when it comes to that...but then
again...i was drunk and jimi was cranking in the background so i did what i
am sure he would have said...fuck it!, now where the hell is my guitar, uh,
jimi, you're wearing it...right!...let's go kick out the jams mother
fuckers...on three my bitches, hit it...! 8 )
Karla
> On Jun 15, 5:01 am, "=z=" <+...@nothere.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Rob Evans" <p...@sky.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:4a360d7d$0$5446$b9f6...@news.newsdemon.com...
>
> > > our resident king dumbass squits...
>
> > >> >> that makes Dockery snip <slap>
>
> > >> > Yet here /you/ are doing the snipping
>
> > > really? don't you mean <slapping>, you irony-deficient halfwit
>
> > > lardarsed canard
>
> > > continue to meet petard
>
> > > and remain oblivious
>
> > > So, so, sad...
>
> > you're no than a pussy that hides behind a bloody urinary tampon...rob
> > evans-down on the farm...you are a joke..and everyone here knows it and
> > mentions it once in a while about how much of a fucking retard you are...a
> > dipshit that doesn't even know it...that be you...a fucking british dumbass
> > with fucked up teeth and wolf pussy breath...not to mention a complete
> > dickhead...and no more than a stupid irish get with a bloated british
> > mouth...sieg heil asshole...
>
> i have to agree with this assessment.
You do, Matt? Then you're nothing but a troll yourself. Only a troll
would sign-off on the above. If I had any doubts about what others are
posting re your intentions, this cleared it up for me! Troll.
Karla
> evans is hiding something...supposedly, he's let a couple
> people in here on the "secret," and left the rest of
> us in the lurch. it's some sort of inside joke that really
> stinks to hell about now.
>
> this joke is like a putrid fart that won't go away.
> it only serves to irritate and frustrate other readers.
> he has been around since the inception of aapc,
> and hasn't shied away from telling people his views.
> i just wish he would get off this dockery slapping
> joy ride and get back to the theme of the group:
> POETRY.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
=z=
if you don't realize who you are talking too...oh, and by the way...when is
the last time you read what this group thinks about you...ass-in-the-boat
troll-la-la-de-da...
fuck rob and fuck you too...
(that is the english fucking version)...prick>-
Will Dockery
> On Jun 15, 5:01 am, "=z=" <+...@nothere.net> wrote:
>
> >news:4a360d7d$0$5446$b9f6...@news.newsdemon.com...
>
> > >> >> that makes Dockery snip <slap>
>
> > >> > Yet here /you/ are doing the snipping
>
At this point, I doubt anyone expects Mushmouth to be on anything but
on a tragic slide to oblivion.
> > > So, so, sad...
>
> > you're no than a pussy that hides behind a bloody urinary tampon...rob
> > evans-down on the farm...you are a joke..and everyone here knows it and
> > mentions it once in a while about how much of a fucking retard you are...a
> > dipshit that doesn't even know it...that be you...a fucking british dumbass
> > with fucked up teeth and wolf pussy breath...not to mention a complete
> > dickhead...and no more than a stupid irish get with a bloated british
> > mouth...sieg heil asshole...
>
> i have to agree with this assessment.
>
> evans is hiding something...supposedly, he's let a couple
> people in here on the "secret," and left the rest of
> us in the lurch. it's some sort of inside joke that really
> stinks to hell about now.
>
> this joke is like a putrid fart that won't go away.
> it only serves to irritate and frustrate other readers.
> he has been around since the inception of aapc,
> and hasn't shied away from telling people his views.
> i just wish he would get off this dockery slapping
> joy ride and get back to the theme of the group:
> POETRY.
Mushmouth's obsession with sniffing along behind me sure has gone
beyond boring... for how long now?
At least a year of day-in-day-out stupidity, the same little nothing
posts, and nothing else. He doesn't even see any posts here unless
they're "Will Dockery" related. A strange little bird, that Rob
"Mushmouth" Evans, as Don Knotts might say.
Karla
I didn't get the secret decoder ring, so, no, I don't know who you
are. My response was to msifg, often known as Matt. I did get a high
school education and then some so it doesn't take more than a glance
at your troll behavior to guess your not-so-secret name.
Who here among us has not trolled cast the first stone!
Perhaps Matt thinks that he and he alone can troll, snipe and grouse
about without contradicting his mandate. He trolled today, and hooked
me! Or maybe he means that we should all give up and troll away?
Karla
Will Dockery
Both sides have to agree to stop... I wouldn't expect anyone to just
"turn the other cheek", to borrow some poetry from Jesus.
Remember our truce, just between you and me? It worked well, and still
is working, mostly, but that was just between us... we still had other
interactions that shouldn't -and didn't- interfere with our agreed-
upon situation.
msifg
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
ok-
fine...you want to call me a troll...yet, i've
been trying to flush out the trolls. shaun
does engage in trollish behavior, at times.
i've pointed out when he has. when i've
engaged in trollish behavior, i've apologized.
for that matter, so has shaun...(i'm thinking
of the time he trolled farstar last year....no
i'm not going to dig it up.)
i suppose we're all trolls to some extent...
as far as jumping in on each others posts
and taking pot shots at each other here
and there. however, evans trollish behavior
takes the cake.
are you denying his trollish behavior?
if so, explain how his behavior toward
dockery is NOT trollish...i'd like to hear
this. who knows, you might convince me
otherwise. although, i highly doubt it.
Will Dockery
Though I don't want to start a fight with her, a personal one, anyhow,
but Karla has admitted to behavior on Usenet that could be considered
"trollish", and I think she might openly admit to it.
I won't go after and "post proof" right now, but there's at least one
conversation where she explained that lying and foul language are
expected and accepted in a "flame war" setting.
Karla, correct me if you think I'm wrong, but didn't we discuss these
points in the past?
--
"Rick Howe, singer, songwriter, comix artist, poet... friend. May he
find peace in the Great Unknown." -Will Dockery
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p83vPKQuKzU
msifg
>
> - Show quoted text -
well-
he never talks about poetry...
however, he comes to a poetry news group...
then, he complains that i'm illiterate, yet
he obviously can't read the POETRY in
aapc. or, he's trolling...
i suppose he's either a troll, or he can't read.
however, he can't be both, and i 'm positive
he can read, so...he's a troll.
it's that simple and i'm not going to
post proof...hehe
Will Dockery
>Will Dockery wrote:
> > On Jun 15, 8:16 am, msifg wrote:
> > > On Jun 15, 5:01 am, "=z=" <+...@nothere.net> wrote:
>>>> "Rob Evans" <mushmouth-poet @whistle-lisper.com> wrote in message
>
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> well-
> he never talks about poetry...
> however, he comes to a poetry news group...
> then, he complains that i'm illiterate, yet
> he obviously can't read the POETRY in
> aapc. or, he's trolling...
>
> i suppose he's either a troll, or he can't read.
>
> however, he can't be both, and i 'm positive
> he can read, so...he's a troll.
>
> it's that simple and i'm not going to
> post proof...hehe
He sure seems threatened by me, though... I can only guess why, but I
have some good guesses.
Karla
So, I'm given to understand by this post and the one earlier which
caused me to post, that you're just fine with these statements here on
aapc:
- "you're no than a pussy that hides behind a bloody urinary
tampon..."
[Matt: i have to agree with this assessment.]
- "down on the farm...you are a joke..and everyone here knows it"
[Matt: i have to agree with this assessment.]
- a"nd mentions it once in a while about how much of a fucking retard
you are..."
[Matt: i have to agree with this assessment.]
- "a dipshit that doesn't even know it...that be you..."
[Matt: i have to agree with this assessment.]
- "a fucking british dumbass"
[Matt: i have to agree with this assessment.]
- "with fucked up teeth"
[Matt: i have to agree with this assessment.]
- "and wolf pussy breath..."
[Matt: i have to agree with this assessment.]
- "not to mention a complete dickhead..."
[Matt: i have to agree with this assessment.]
- "and no more than a stupid irish get with a bloated british
mouth..."
[Matt: i have to agree with this assessment.]
- "sieg heil asshole... "
[Matt: i have to agree with this assessment.]
Because, Matt, if that's your idea of keeping it troll free around
here, you've really set the bar kinda low. WTG!
Karla
Karla
Dockery, in this very thread, the opposite is true. Rob posted here,
and you sniffed along behind him. You weren't mentioned in Rob's post.
This is what Gwyneth's and others are trying to get you to admit - you
are either being lazy about making sure what you post is accurate or
you're out and out lying.
> At least a year of day-in-day-out stupidity, the same little nothing
> posts, and nothing else. He doesn't even see any posts here unless
> they're "Will Dockery" related. A strange little bird, that Rob
> "Mushmouth" Evans, as Don Knotts might say.
See above. In this thread, your statements above are false.
Since posting falsehoods isn't working so well for you, why not turn
try turning the other cheek?
Karla
Will Dockery
> On Jun 15, 12:37 pm, Will Dockery wrote:
> > On Jun 15, 8:16 am, msifg <qoph...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Jun 15, 5:01 am, "=z=" <+...@nothere.net> wrote:
> > > > "Rob Evans" <mushmouth-poet @whistle-lisper.com> wrote in message
>
Now, stop lying, Karla. I posted on this thread before Mushmouth.
> > At least a year of day-in-day-out stupidity, the same little nothing
> > posts, and nothing else. He doesn't even see any posts here unless
> > they're "Will Dockery" related. A strange little bird, that Rob
> > "Mushmouth" Evans, as Don Knotts might say.
--
Karla
You're lying because he said nothing about you, i.e. he wasn't
sniffing behind you. His first post was a play on 'ad hominem':
"hey, catwoman-
ah, an ad hominfem.
Rob"
And you had to 'sniff' along with a humorless "And another worthless
Rob "Mushmouth" Evans post."
If you can't be truthful, you ought to be silent on this.
Karla