Re: Ping> Will Dockery The Days of the Big Cans
Will Dockery
>
> > It was a gig night at Rhino's (Thursdays?) The pal of our drummer
> > (name?) who had rehearsed with us once at the drummer's house , was
> > there and wanted to pley lead guitar (my spot). I guess I was voted
> > out, I sat at the bar pissed and fuming over it...never played with
> > the band again until now.
>
> And you let it happen..this guy comes along and takes over my spot,
I still wonder why you both couldn't have played, that may have been the
problem, that you two refused to try to play with the other on the songs...
I remember envisioning a double guitar attack, such as The Stones with
Richards & Wood... but we could never get you two to concentrate on the
songs, you were too busy giving each other evil stares to even play
guitar...
> and the worse part is that he played a hard rock style lead...it
> didn't fit
I can't say a hard rock style wouldn't fit, but the main point is that the
guy just wasn't very good in the first place... it seems the two of you had
some personal issues that I wasn't sure of what those are, now.
I do remember that you did perform with us at the Marios gig when we opened
for the Spaceseed, though, and Dan's friend was long gone already...
Dan Harley, who was discharged from Fort Benning and who left his
drums in the basement of Rhino's, to this day?
who had rehearsed with us once at the drummer's house , was
> there and wanted to pley lead guitar (my spot).
I don't get why both of you couldn't have played? Up until that point
there were usually a dozen people onstage at once playing the songs. I
never mentioned it, and you don't seem to remember the incident, but
the "clown" ball-busting at our spot at the bar, with Jocelyn's
mother, Blair, Jose & other listening, had a serious effect on my
judgement, that Spring... I felt that all that had happened before
during the Parnello's Winter, may have been a calculated attempt
(successful, if so) to freeload off me in $$$ and fame. I wonder if
that's why I didn't speak up and say that you both should play, and
just let the drummer push you out in favor of his (inept) friend.
I dodn't think the other guy even played a set with us, always managed
to not show up, or something... only would play at practice, a stage
fright thing, maybe.
I guess I was voted
> out, I sat at the bar pissed and fuming over it...never played with
> the band again until now.
Didn't the show at Mario's come after all that? Which was the last
Shadowville All-Stars performance until this Summer, because right
after that I teamed back up with HC and wrote all the "Shadowville
Speedway" songs?
--
"Red Lipped Stranger & other stories" by Will Dockery:
http://www.myspace.com/willdockery
Will Dockery
"Peter J Ross" <p...@example.invalid> wrote in message
news:slrnhfseu...@pjr.gotdns.org...
> In alt.arts.poetry.comments on Fri, 13 Nov 2009 20:45:10 -0800 (PST),
> g.frankfurth <garyfran...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> It was a gig night at Rhino's (Thursdays?) The pal of our drummer
>> (name?) who had rehearsed with us once at the drummer's house , was
>> there and wanted to pley lead guitar (my spot). I guess I was voted
>> out, I sat at the bar pissed and fuming over it...never played with
>> the band again until now.
>
Hello, Pete!
Will Dockery
"g.frankfurth" <garyfran...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:93524772-aca7-4abc...@e23g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
>On Nov 13, 11:55 pm, Will Dockery wrote:
>> On Nov 13, 11:45 pm, "g.frankfurth" <garyfrankfurt...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > It was a gig night at Rhino's (Thursdays?) The pal of our drummer
> > (name?)
>
> drums in the basement of Rhino's, to this day?
>
>
> > there and wanted to pley lead guitar (my spot).
>
> there were usually a dozen people onstage at once playing the songs. I
> never mentioned it, and you don't seem to remember the incident, but
> the "clown" ball-busting at our spot at the bar, with Jocelyn's
> mother, Blair, Jose & other listening, had a serious effect on my
> judgement, that Spring... I felt that all that had happened before
> during the Parnello's Winter, may have been a calculated attempt
> (successful, if so) to freeload off me in $$$ and fame. I wonder if
> that's why I didn't speak up and say that you both should play, and
> just let the drummer push you out in favor of his (inept) friend.
>
> I dodn't think the other guy even played a set with us, always managed
> to not show up, or something... only would play at practice, a stage
> fright thing, maybe.
>
>
> > out, I sat at the bar pissed and fuming over it...never played with
> > the band again until now.
>
> Shadowville All-Stars performance until this Summer, because right
> after that I teamed back up with HC and wrote all the "Shadowville
> Speedway" songs?
>
No, this was post Mario's. I guess that I had just gotten my car. The
clown business I do not remember, maybe very,very vaguely, but I know
myself and I know how I feel about you...there has never, ever been
any feelings of animosity.
//Well, I pretty well knew it was just a matter of showing off for Jocelyn's
mother and whatnot, and I'm sorry I accidentally stepped on your phone that
night... heh.
The sponge-ing of beers and cigs was due to
Parnello's not paying me.
Yeh, Harley, I guess the band petered -out when he got discharged, for
lack of a drummer.
//Well, almost immediately after that I hooked back up with Henry Conley &
began songwriting with him, thus putting the Shadowville All-Stars on
hiatus... this is the period of time in his HC & me wrote over 100 songs,
resulting in the album, and the forthcoming one...
That one night, the last night at Rhino's, though,
the other dude, friend of Harley, played in my spot and I figured that
I had been replaced.. .
//I Still say there's room for all in the Shadowville All-Stars...
g.frankfurth
> "g.frankfurth" <garyfrankfurt...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> - Show quoted text -
I remind you again: Jocelyn's mother was not around then. She
disappeared a year and half or more before that. She was gone when I
got back from Michigan from picking up my other Honda- the Accord-
that car was long gone by period we are now speaking of.
And maybe I could have played also, but I copped an attitude, i guess.
Only a moron would eaves-drop then poke his head out of the bushes,
shout something stupid and run.
Orson Wells as CitizenCain
"Will Dockery" <shado...@knology.net> wrote in message
news:2bc6d$4afe3e80$d8baf760$22...@KNOLOGY.NET...
> "g.frankfurth" wrote:
>>
>> > It was a gig night at Rhino's (Thursdays?) The pal of our drummer
>> > (name?) who had rehearsed with us once at the drummer's house , was
>> > there and wanted to pley lead guitar (my spot). I guess I was voted
>> > out, I sat at the bar pissed and fuming over it...never played with
>> > the band again until now.
>>
>> And you let it happen..this guy comes along and takes over my spot,
>
> I still wonder why you both couldn't have played, that may have been the
> problem, that you two refused to try to play with the other on the
> songs... I remember envisioning a double guitar attack, such as The Stones
> with Richards & Wood... but we could never get you two to concentrate on
> the songs, you were too busy giving each other evil stares to even play
> guitar...
>
>> and the worse part is that he played a hard rock style lead...it
>> didn't fit
I would think the worst part would be that Will Dockery was hanging
around.............................................
Will Dockery
>> On Nov 13, 11:55 pm, Will Dockery wrote:
>
> > > > It was a gig night at Rhino's (Thursdays?) The pal of our drummer
> > > > (name?)
>
> > > drums in the basement of Rhino's, to this day?
>
>
> > > > there and wanted to pley lead guitar (my spot).
>
> > > there were usually a dozen people onstage at once playing the songs. I
> > > never mentioned it, and you don't seem to remember the incident, but
> > > the "clown" ball-busting at our spot at the bar, with Jocelyn's
> > > mother, Blair, Jose & other listening, had a serious effect on my
> > > judgement, that Spring... I felt that all that had happened before
> > > during the Parnello's Winter, may have been a calculated attempt
> > > (successful, if so) to freeload off me in $$$ and fame. I wonder if
> > > that's why I didn't speak up and say that you both should play, and
> > > just let the drummer push you out in favor of his (inept) friend.
>
> > > I dodn't think the other guy even played a set with us, always managed
> > > to not show up, or something... only would play at practice, a stage
> > > fright thing, maybe.
>
>
> > > > out, I sat at the bar pissed and fuming over it...never played with
> > > > the band again until now.
>
> > > Shadowville All-Stars performance until this Summer, because right
> > > after that I teamed back up with HC and wrote all the "Shadowville
> > > Speedway" songs?
>
> > > --
> > > "Red Lipped Stranger & other stories" by Will
> > > Dockery:http://www.myspace.com/willdockery
>
> > No, this was post Mario's. I guess that I had just gotten my car. The
> > clown business I do not remember, maybe very,very vaguely, but I know
> > myself and I know how I feel about you...there has never, ever been
> > Parnello's not paying me.
>
> > Yeh, Harley, I guess the band petered -out when he got discharged, for
> > the other dude, friend of Harley, played in my spot and I figured that
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
Annette did come back once or twice, briefly, but, right, I think I mixed
you up with P.D. Wilson, who was sitting in your chair the last time I saw
her.
Jocelyn was, but not
> her mom. And I am pretty sure that if I called you a clown it was for
> reasons justified in my eyes
Well, you put it pretty clear that it was something that you'd been wanting
to say but bottled it up, and then since you suddenly now had a job /and/ a
working (for the moment) car, you could finally tell me.
and not for reasons of wanting to make
> you look bad in front of others.
> But there was a woman in the mix but I can't remember who.
Seems like it was her, but then again I may have replaced you with P.D.
Wilson in the event in that perticular incident...
g.frankfurth
>
> - Show quoted text -
I am certain that I had nothing 'bottled up'. Will, it just is not at
all in my nature. You had done nothing to upset me. Not even the
allowing of the other guitarist to take my spot. Hell, I was using
Mallard's guitar. I played lead and had to watch Brian's changes
because I never bothered to remember them. But that was no problem.
Brian always faced toward me a little so that I could do that.
I didn't see Annette again until one night at the Saloon and she blew
me off like she didn't even know me.
The phone incident was intentional on your part. You didn't step on
it, you broke it in half like a pencil. At that moment, it was
downtown, I did want to retaliate, but I didn't and after getting the
phone replaced at no cost due to the insurance, I didn't hold a grudge
on that, either. I laughed it off cause I knew you were just drunk.
But you did break it and I think there was some anger toward me that
you took out on my phone.
Trust me, though, I have never been pissed off at you except very
briefly at the very moment that you did that number on my phone. You
graciously bought me the Big Cans at a dollar a pop and let me smoke
with you. I rode back seat with you and Brother Dave for a good while
on the deliveries. We had a great time, swilling BIg Cans and late
late Parnello happenings of outrageous diminsions. Quite a lot of
material for the Tarzan comic strips.
Orson Wells as CitizenCain
I didn't see Annette again until one night at the Saloon and she blew
me off like she didn't even know me.
The phone incident was intentional on your part. You didn't step on
it, you broke it in half like a pencil. At that moment, it was
downtown, I did want to retaliate, but I didn't and after getting the
phone replaced at no cost due to the insurance, I didn't hold a grudge
on that, either. I laughed it off cause I knew you were just drunk.
Dockery getting trashed and destroying someone else's property. Big
surprise.
Will Dockery
> > > > The
> > > > clown business I do not remember, maybe very,very vaguely, but I
> > > > know
> > > > myself and I know how I feel about you...there has never, ever been
> > > > any feelings of animosity. The sponge-ing of beers and cigs was due
> > > > to
> > > > Parnello's not paying me.
>
> > > > Yeh, Harley, I guess the band petered -out when he got discharged,
> > > > for
> > > > lack of a drummer. That one night, the last night at Rhino's,
> > > > though,
> > > > the other dude, friend of Harley, played in my spot and I figured
> > > > that
> > > > I had been replaced...
>
>
> > Annette did come back once or twice, briefly, but, right, I think I
> > mixed
> > you up with P.D. Wilson, who was sitting in your chair the last time I
> > saw her.
>
> > Jocelyn was, but not
> > > her mom. And I am pretty sure that if I called you a clown it was for
> > > reasons justified in my eyes
>
> > Well, you put it pretty clear that it was something that you'd been
> > wanting
> > to say but bottled it up, and then since you suddenly now had a job
> > /and/ a
> > working (for the moment) car, you could finally tell me.
>
> > and not for reasons of wanting to make
>
> > > you look bad in front of others.
> > > But there was a woman in the mix but I can't remember who.
>
> > Seems like it was her, but then again I may have replaced you with P.D.
> > Wilson in the event in that perticular incident...
>
> all in my nature. You had done nothing to upset me.
So, I'm not sure if that wasn't what made it worse, you were just giving
your honest assesment of me, which you'd kept (not bottled up, but at least
unspoken) to yourself until then... and chose to present this assesment in
front of a group of observers.
Anyway, I'll go into Google and look for the references from Arthur Rimbaud
on "the poet as clown" angle, which I took it as at the time, and conversed
in that direction on with you at that time. But still, I was thinking "Why
is this/ goofy motherfucker calling /me/ the clown?" and made a point to
mention to you that you might be projecting your own clownishness on me...
it wasn't until later that I thought about the conversation, after we'd left
the crowd and were standing on the sidewalk that I dropped your cellphone
and accidentally stomped it flat.
> allowing of the other guitarist to take my spot. Hell, I was using
> Mallard's guitar. I played lead and had to watch Brian's changes
> because I never bothered to remember them. But that was no problem.
> Brian always faced toward me a little so that I could do that.
>
> I didn't see Annette again until one night at the Saloon and she blew
> me off like she didn't even know me.
I wondered about that during that time... it was almost as if she had
amnesia or something, it was almost like she was just meeting me also,
strangely... something about "My daughter tells me so much about you..."
when in fact I /think/ she knew me pretty well a couple of years before
that... interesting topic for discussion one day over coffee, I suppose.
And now I'm wondering if for sure it was even you that called me the "clown"
while Annette was sitting there, and if it was even your phone I broke...
I'm thinking now that the entire incident was with P.D. Wilson, who began
hanging around in a similar slot you occupied after you made your exit from
the scene, there is a resemblance between you two, so maybe. He reads this
stuff from time-to-time so maybe he'll respond if any of this rings a bell
with him.
> The phone incident was intentional on your part.
No, not entirely... see below.
You didn't step on
> it, you broke it in half like a pencil. At that moment, it was
> downtown, I did want to retaliate, but I didn't
Glad you didn't, since I was apparently "retaliating" over the clown
incident earlier that night at SoHo... I don't see it as completely
/intentional/, since I just dropped it on the sidewalk and accidentally
stomped it only once, as I recall...
and after getting the
> phone replaced at no cost due to the insurance, I didn't hold a grudge
> on that, either. I laughed it off cause I knew you were just drunk.
> But you did break it and I think there was some anger toward me that
> you took out on my phone.
Yeah, it was the "clown" thing which you blindsided me with in front of the
crowd of people, which was right around the time I stepped on, or as you
remember it, snapped, your telephone.
Glad we got all that cleared up, more-or-less.
> Trust me, though, I have never been pissed off at you except very
> briefly at the very moment that you did that number on my phone.
And likewise, at the very moment I stepped on the phone for me... although I
wasn't really what I'd say was angry, but more of in a clowning around mood,
which didn't pan out as well as expected.
> graciously bought me the Big Cans at a dollar a pop and let me smoke
> with you. I rode back seat with you and Brother Dave for a good while
> on the deliveries. We had a great time, swilling BIg Cans and late
> late Parnello happenings of outrageous diminsions. Quite a lot of
> material for the Tarzan comic strips.
Yes, those were great times... we should have known they wouldn't last
forever... nothing does, of course.
g.frankfurth
>
> - Show quoted text -
I think the whole clown thing may have been P.D. as I am not one to do
any name-calling, unless I am striking out in full attack mode.. If I
ever did call you a clown it would not be in reference to your
behaviour. It would have something to do with your 'fro. Har.
And, I can still see it very clearly, and remember it with absolute
clarity (I am known for such vivid recall : in all groups I am usually
assigned the role of scribe.) You were using my cell, which was one
that opens up. You got angry about something, The old, drinking Will
was capable of that. Maybe the person you were calling, I'm not sure
here about this. But you, and I watched, held the phone out and
snapped it in two and through it on the sidewalk. I was
flabbergasted.
The clown and the phone were not sequential events. The phone happened
when we were still playing Wednesday's Loft and I was in the band and
we were on our way to it.
The clown, if I did say it, would have to have been AFTER the phone,
and would have been my only retaliatory response to that incident.
But, we were both into the BIG CANS then. Who knows what all we did,
said or who all we screwed, beat-up or bruised--we were Big Pricks
with BIG CANS of 4.0 Natural Light brewhah
Mr. Jackflash : it was a gas gas gas.
Will Dockery
> On Nov 14, 2:19 am, "Will Dockery" wrote:
<snipped for brevity>
> I think the whole clown thing may have been P.D. as I am not one to do
There's the whole Don Quioxte thing you both fall into, the "Greybeard
Cavalier" archetype... and now that I'm thinking, it may have actually
been E. d'E who was there at the time, if in fact it was PDW & not you
who did the clown thing which led to the phone snapping. But I'd
rather leave that for him to respond to and just say for now that it
was you, since you do remember the telephone portion of the story, but
not the clown-outing in front of ladies & gents that led up to the
phone whacking, which may have been symbolic. seeing as how our phones
are like bionic extensions of ourselves, in these modern times.
Anyway, that seems to be the way it fit with my recollections, which
are also very very vivid... which is why I try to explain to people
that my poems and songs are usually about events and dreams that
occured a long time ago.
> any name-calling, unless I am striking out in full attack mode...
It wasn't really any attack mode, but now possibly an homage to the
Goodfellas scene where Peschi goes "Am I a clown to you? Do I amuse
you?"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gVvmV3BnzM
> ever did call you a clown it would not be in reference to your
> behaviour. It would have something to do with your 'fro. Har.
Don't forget the big shoes, pal... can I use your phone for a minute?
Oooops... <<<crunch>>>
Gotta admit, /that/ was funny...
> And, I can still see it very clearly, and remember it with absolute
> clarity (I am known for such vivid recall : in all groups I am usually
> assigned the role of scribe.)
Yet, you don't remember the "clown" bit? It went on for several
minutes... odd that you've blacked that scene from your memory?
You were using my cell, which was one
> that opens up. You got angry about something,
Well, yeah, the "clown" conversation of earlier that night... heh.
>The old, drinking Will
> was capable of that. Maybe the person you were calling, I'm not sure
> here about this.
Well, yeah... try to think back on the Night of the Clown... it was a
very illuminating conversation... at least from this side of the
fence.
But you, and I watched, held the phone out and
> snapped it in two and through it on the sidewalk. I was
> flabbergasted.
>
> The clown and the phone were not sequential events.
But since you don't claim to /remember/ the clown incident, how can
you know this? As I recall, they were in fact directly related... oh,
yeah, there was also some comments that you didn't intend to ever pay
me back for the beers and smokes, that if I was clown enough to buy
the stuff, that was my choice.
And to this day, I suppose that's true... live and learn, I suppose...
heh.
Will Dockery
wrote:
>On Nov 13, 11:55 pm, Will Dockery wrote:
>> On Nov 13, 11:45 pm, "g.frankfurth" <garyfrankfurt...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > It was a gig night at Rhino's (Thursdays?) The pal of our drummer (name?)
>
> > > Dan Harley, who was discharged from Fort Benning and who left his
> > > drums in the basement of Rhino's, to this day?
>
> > > who had rehearsed with us once at the drummer's house , was
>
> > > > there and wanted to pley lead guitar (my spot).
>
> > > I don't get why both of you couldn't have played? Up until that point
> > > there were usually a dozen people onstage at once playing the songs. I
> > > never mentioned it, and you don't seem to remember the incident, but
> > > the "clown" ball-busting at our spot at the bar, with Jocelyn's
> > > mother, Blair, Jose & other listening, had a serious effect on my
> > > judgement, that Spring... I felt that all that had happened before
> > > during the Parnello's Winter, may have been a calculated attempt
> > > (successful, if so) to freeload off me in $$$ and fame. I wonder if
> > > that's why I didn't speak up and say that you both should play, and
> > > just let the drummer push you out in favor of his (inept) friend.
>
> > > to not show up, or something... only would play at practice, a stage
> > > fright thing, maybe.
>
> > > I guess I was voted
> > > > out, I sat at the bar pissed and fuming over it...never played with
> > > > the band again until now.
>
> > > Didn't the show at Mario's come after all that?
It had to have come after that, since the other guitar player was not
involved that night... he had already come and gone.
Which was the last
> > > Shadowville All-Stars performance until this Summer, because right
> > > after that I teamed back up with HC and wrote all the "Shadowville
> > > Speedway" songs?
>
> > No, this was post Mario's. I guess that I had just gotten my car. The
Yes, it was definitely after you got the car, and had a little job of
some sort, so you had money & a ride and I detected a change in the
air, which was proven right when you went off on me with the Clown
Attack in front of the woman (whoever she is) and folks like Jose &
Blair... maybe they might remember but I wouldn't care to remind
them.
I asked to borrow your phone, and clumsy clown that I am, I fumbled
and dropped it, and then one of my big clown feet came down and
crushed the poor little thing... but I apologized then, and do again
now. good rule of thumb is maybe don't call a man a "clown" infront of
women and drunk friends with an ear for mischief... and then lend him
your phone.
> > clown business I do not remember, maybe very,very vaguely
Again, I wonder where your vivid recollections, for which you are
famous, have gone in this matter.
> > myself and I know how I feel about you...there has never, ever been
> > any feelings of animosity.
>
> > //Well, I pretty well knew it was just a matter of showing off for Jocelyn's
> > mother and whatnot, and I'm sorry I accidentally stepped on your phone that
> > night... heh.
>
> > The sponge-ing of beers and cigs was due to Parnello's not paying me.
I don't know where you got off deciding to make /me/ pay you for being
Senator of Parnello's Pizza... the best I could do was give you the
title, it was of course up to Parnell & Mama Parnello to actually /
pay/ you... and we had a verbal agreement that all the hundreds of
beers I was springing for you'd pay me back for handsomely, or I
wouldn't have been so keen on doing it (although I know I'd have
sprung for a few, since I never wanted to drink alone). The night of
the "clown" incident, though, you made it quite clear that you didn't
intend to pay me back, since now I remember what brought that on...
you had the job, had beer money, yet didn't offer to buy me any,
wouldn't buy a pitchur, and in fact flatly said something like "You're
on your own, buddy."
Continuing to converse with you led to the "clown" statements, et
cetera.
> > Yeh, Harley, I guess the band petered -out when he got discharged, for
> > lack of a drummer.
>
> > //Well, almost immediately after that I hooked back up with Henry Conley &
> > began songwriting with him, thus putting the Shadowville All-Stars on
> > hiatus... this is the period of time in his HC & me wrote over 100 songs,
> > resulting in the album, and the forthcoming one...
>
> > That one night, the last night at Rhino's, though,
> > the other dude, friend of Harley, played in my spot and I figured that
> > I had been replaced.. .
>
> > //I Still say there's room for all in the Shadowville All-Stars...
>
> I remind you again: Jocelyn's mother was not around then. She
> disappeared a year and half or more before that. She was gone
She came back and forth a couple of times during that period, her
mother was sick at one point and she was staying there with her for a
while, but she did become much more mysterious and unlikely to see
after her days at Whisperwood.
> got back from Michigan from picking up my other Honda- the Accord-
Was that before or after you spent the time working in New Orleans
after the hurricane? The particulars are complex, there were a lot of
comings and goings with you during those years, like when did you get
and how long did you have the famous house-on-wheels, the Dodge Ram
Van, I think it was? This is around the time PDW arrived on the scene
and spent a few months on the scene... he wanted to buy your van at
that point, remember that?
> that car was long gone by period we are now speaking of.
> And maybe I could have played also, but I copped an attitude, i guess.
I think you understand now that isn't really a good direction for
working with the Shadowville All-Stars, but that was a pretty rough
patch for the group, all around...
> Only a moron would eaves-drop then poke his head out of the bushes,
> shout something stupid and run.
Not sure what that means, but when you return here, maybe you can
illuminate it a bit more...
g.frankfurth
I take that back...there is not even a vague memory, which leads me to
believe that it was PDW. That sort of thing IS in his nature.
>
> Again, I wonder where your vivid recollections, for which you are
> famous, have gone in this matter.
>
> > > myself and I know how I feel about you...there has never, ever been
> > > any feelings of animosity.
>
> > > //Well, I pretty well knew it was just a matter of showing off for Jocelyn's
> > > mother and whatnot, and I'm sorry I accidentally stepped on your phone that
> > > night... heh.
Snapped my phone.
I don't need to show off at someone's expense to get a woman's
attention.
The " 'fro " quip was a joke. The "har" was har as in matey not
"hair"
>
> > > The sponge-ing of beers and cigs was due to Parnello's not paying me.
Any addict of anything that can't support his habit is gonna beg
(mooch) without shame because such does addiction do to a man. I am
so glad I have finally quit drinking.
>
> I don't know where you got off deciding to make /me/ pay you for being
> Senator of Parnello's Pizza... the best I could do was give you the
> title, it was of course up to Parnell & Mama Parnello to actually /
> pay/ you... and we had a verbal agreement that all the hundreds of
> beers I was springing for you'd pay me back for handsomely, or I
> wouldn't have been so keen on doing it (although I know I'd have
> sprung for a few, since I never wanted to drink alone). The night of
> the "clown" incident, though, you made it quite clear that you didn't
> intend to pay me back, since now I remember what brought that on...
> you had the job, had beer money, yet didn't offer to buy me any,
> wouldn't buy a pitchur, and in fact flatly said something like "You're
> on your own, buddy."
>
That is not what I meant...Parnello not paying was the reason I had no
money...I did not expect you to pay me...you bought me the 99 centers
(Natural Ice) out of the goodness of your-own-self. And now I Know
something is erroneous : I would never, ever say that I have no
intention of paying you back. That, absolutely, is not me at all. And
for me to have money and not buy a pitcher or anything would only
happen if I was short on money and you had some money but wanted me to
buy out of principle but I was not yet financially prepared to but
still would have had you actually had No money. If you can follow
that.
> That was before I went to Mississippi. And the time I spent with Jocilyn's mother was when I went to Michigan for a week. That was when we first actually became acquainted. The Accord was stolen and wrecked. All that was before I hooked back up with you and started with the All-Stars.
I got the Ram while I was in Mississippi.
Now I remember the PDW joker wanting to buy the van but never
following through.
> > that car was long gone by period we are now speaking of.
> > And maybe I could have played also, but I copped an attitude, i guess.
>
> I think you understand now that isn't really a good direction for
> working with the Shadowville All-Stars, but that was a pretty rough
> patch for the group, all around...
>
> > Only a moron would eaves-drop then poke his head out of the bushes,
> > shout something stupid and run.
That was directed at the Ross guy that poked his head in above and
said something about the moron chat room being over >
>
> Not sure what that means, but when you return here, maybe you can
> illuminate it a bit more...
>
> --
> "Red Lipped Stranger & other stories" by Will Dockery:http://www.myspace.com/willdockery- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
Will Dockery
Which is what made it so illuminating and shocking when you did it...
Brother Dave remembers it, delve into your memory because I did
compact a day or so of events into one evening. The first night began
at SoHo, where the Goodfellas moment began, or the twist on it, since
you really were saying I was a clown, and how I amuse you... and I
could forget all the beers I bought, because I was "on my own". You
made a hasty exit for Shanty Shack, since you didn't need a ride (at
the moment) and I was sitting there with Jose and the gang. I told
them "Look at that, when he was broke and walking he didn't dare act
like that. Gentlemen, you have seen the real Gary Frankfurth... lend
him a dime at your own risk." They nodded sagely as I grabbed my hat
and walked out the door. Saw you in the parking lot of Shanty Shack
and went in, thinking surely old Gary will understand the gesture of
goodwill buying me at least one beer, or a pitchur with two mugs would
signify to me... I was thinking that the short drive from SoHo to
Shanty Shack would have most likely given you a chance to see the
situation, since I was aware you're not an idiot.
Parking lot scene was bad, inside was worse, and that seems to be when
you pulled your projected "clown talk" mind game on me, in front of
the waitress, the nice girl who I can't remember her name, the one
with the friendly smile. That's when I walked out, promising myself if
I ever get fooled again into some phoney, one sided illusion of
comaradere, then I must in fact be the clown this two-faced Court
Jester declared me to be... on both home turf (SoHo) and unfamiliar
grounds (Shanty Shack).
All this becomes more vivid the more I think of it... are you
proposing you may have been in a complete black-out state when you
claim to have zero memory of any of the Clown Incident? Brother Dave
saw the parking lot segement, and of course heard me musing on what
the future would bring... I could easily see that after this, perhaps
you were not inclined to perform in a band led by a clown...
> > Again, I wonder where your vivid recollections, for which you are
> > famous, have gone in this matter.
Heh... even moreso, this morning.
> > > > myself and I know how I feel about you...there has never, ever been
> > > > any feelings of animosity.
>
> > > > //Well, I pretty well knew it was just a matter of showing off for Jocelyn's
> > > > mother and whatnot, and I'm sorry I accidentally stepped on your phone that
> > > > night... heh.
>
> Snapped my phone.
>
> I don't need to show off at someone's expense to get a woman's attention.
No, the waitress turns out to just happened to be there, that's all.
My thinking is, from your lack of not only a vivid recollection of the
events, to a complete blank on the events, is that you'd just got
paid, just got your own car, finally, and were feeling pretty good
(and so good you may have been in a blackout state), and pretty good
that you didn't have to depend on someone else to buy your beer and
bum a ride from... which seems to be why the trip to Shanty Shack was
so important to the story... you didn't /have/ to stay at SoHo, you
had your own ride & $$$, so didn't have to suffer in the company of
clowns any longer.
> > > > The sponge-ing of beers and cigs was due to Parnello's not paying me.
>
> Any addict of anything that can't support his habit is gonna beg
> (mooch) without shame because such does addiction do to a man. I am
> so glad I have finally quit drinking.
Same here, and perhaps this discussion is finished. As Lou Reed wrote:
"Those were different times."
> > I don't know where you got off deciding to make /me/ pay you for being
> > Senator of Parnello's Pizza... the best I could do was give you the
> > title, it was of course up to Parnell & Mama Parnello to actually /
> > pay/ you... and we had a verbal agreement that all the hundreds of
> > beers I was springing for you'd pay me back for handsomely, or I
> > wouldn't have been so keen on doing it (although I know I'd have
> > sprung for a few, since I never wanted to drink alone). The night of
> > the "clown" incident, though, you made it quite clear that you didn't
> > intend to pay me back, since now I remember what brought that on...
> > you had the job, had beer money, yet didn't offer to buy me any,
> > wouldn't buy a pitchur, and in fact flatly said something like "You're
> > on your own, buddy."
>
> That is not what I meant...Parnello not paying was the reason I had no
> money...I did not expect you to pay me...you bought me the 99 centers
> (Natural Ice) out of the goodness of your-own-self. And now I Know
> something is erroneous : I would never, ever say that I have no
> intention of paying you back. That, absolutely, is not me at all. And
> for me to have money and not buy a pitcher or anything would only
> happen if I was short on money and you had some money but wanted me to
> buy out of principle but I was not yet financially prepared to but
> still would have had you actually had No money. If you can follow
> that.
Yes, that does make sense, probably the presentation of it (clowning,
et cetera) skewed the message... I do think we've hit the core of the
matter, here.
g.frankfurth
>
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>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Yes, I am saying that none of this is in my memory banks. I do have a
bad memory of some of the drunken times. So often I am greeted by
people who claim to know me and I haven't the slightest idea who they
are. Maybe you are right but I still think that is very out of
character for me to turn my back on a friend and not acknowledge their
past generosity. Something else must have been a factor in this for me
to behave so. Somewhere in this you must have gotten my goat.
I did a lot of things when i was drinking that I am less than proud
of. I am just glad that period is over. I hope that I have a chance
to make things right .
Will Dockery
Well, likewise, we were quite a terror on many levels... I remember a
few of them where I've been... less than perfect.
The main focus of this thread was really to explore this somewhat lost
era of the Shadowville All-Stars, as I put it yesterday:
"...I just responded, an interesting, and never discussed part of the
history. Things didn't get documented well at all back then, not like
today, no photos, no videos, not even any recordings! The Dark Ages of
Shadowville..."
g.frankfurth
I do recall now the incident but I don't remember a whole lot of the
particulars. I remember that I was doing some landscaping with Jeff
Humphreys a few hours here
and there. I didn't have a lot of money and it was uncertain from day
to day if I'd make anymore. You were somewhat intoxicated and being a
bit obnoxious, wanting me to buy a pitcher or two.. I wasn't ready yet
to start paying you back and you were not without some funds. You
were annoying me and I wanted to just get away from you for the time
being, hence the dash to Shanty. At Shanty you were embarrasing me.
It's such situations when I am capable of acidic tongue thrashings.
You left and I immidiately felt bad, knowing you did not deserve that.
You had been nothing but supportive and generous toward me throughout
my short term as Senator of Parnelloville.. I frelt guilty, knowing I
was wrong. Guilt and shame are not emotions I can afford, so I tend to
block things out that cause them. Buffers, if you will, to protect
myself from myself.
My sincere apologies Will.
Ever since my illfated sojourn to Mississippi, my attempts to do
something other than construction have not paid off. Dickhead -
Sausage Phil almost killed me and didn't pay me at all. Parnellos
didn't work out. Landscaping is hit and miss. I scewed my feet up with
staff infection and no longer have the on my feet endurance for
construction. Which has been a 25 year career for me.
Excuses, excuses...sei la vei, nes pas...
I am aware of my debt to you. I hope that I can find a way to make it
right, Bozo.
Will Dockery
Accepted, of course.
> Ever since my illfated sojourn to Mississippi, my attempts to do
> something other than construction have not paid off. Dickhead -
> Sausage Phil almost killed me and didn't pay me at all. Parnellos
> didn't work out. Landscaping is hit and miss. I scewed my feet up with
> staff infection and no longer have the on my feet endurance for
> construction. Which has been a 25 year career for me.
>
> Excuses, excuses...sei la vei, nes pas...
>
> I am aware of my debt to you. I hope that I can find a way to make it right
You already did. Your harp-work on "Dream Tears":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gX035Ybafx4
And your paintings used in the "Red Lipped Stranger" video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBhcN1WK144
Are priceless contributions, man.
"Now get the fuck outta here,.." -Joe Peschi