Imagist Free Verse Challenge
Karla
First, some comments about imagist free verse:
from Mary Kinzie's A Poet's Guide to Poetry, pages 340-343
In Chapter 11, in the section entitled "The Fourth Freedom: Imagist Free Verse,
Mary Kinzie writes:
"If biblical free verse, dependant on invocation and catalogue, phrasal
accumulation and texture, admiration and terror, could be condensed into its
minim, that residue would the imagist free-verse poem. This is a poem
necessarily short both in line and in total number of words whose aim is the
turning of a single impression into a perfectly polished verbal expression...The
primary rhythmical device in this fourth type of free verse is the subphrasal
cut--the use of the line break to register both closure and interruption of what
cannot yet be closed.
What makes imagist free verse so admirable--and so difficult is the deceptive
ease of expression alongside the apparent casualness of the lineation."
Ms. Kinzie offers 3 sections of Louise Bogan's wonderful "After the Persian" of
which I will quote just a few lines:
"I do not wish to know
The depths of your terrible jungle;
From what nest your leopard leaps
Or what sterile lianas are at once your seprents' disguise and home.
I am the dweller on the temperate threshold,
The strip of corn and vine,
Where all is translucence (the light!),
Liquidity, and the sound of water.
Here the days pass under shade
And the nights have the waxing and the waning moon.
Here the moths take flight at evening;
Here at morning the dove whistles and the pigeons coo.
Here, as night comes on, the fireflies wink and snap
Close to the cool ground,
Shining in a profusion
Celestial or marine.
Here it is never wholly dark bu always wholly green,
And the day stains with what seems to be more than the sun
What may be more than my flesh."
Ms. Kinzie continues: "[Wallace] Stevens, as reticent about the literal
experiences that give his poems vigor as Louise bogan was, displays a rueful,
hectic playfulness and a chronic metaphysical drift that few poets of the
immediate lyric have so effectively combined." She is speaking of Wallace's
"Fabliau of Florida."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fabliau_of_Florida
She concludes with these remarks:
"As often as not, poems like Stevens's evaporate into their own delicacy. It
takes a wise head to limit the use of the form to occasions of the greatest
probability of accuracy, or of greatest need...No other form so readily flies
into pieces as imagist free verse does. But when it is done well, no other form
so perfectly reflects insight into the moments that must pass."
Challenge:
Write an imagist free verse poem. Try to write a new poem before turning to your
own archives.
If you're unable to write a poem for the challenge, please read and criticque
the poems that hopefully will be posted.
Thanks,
Karla
msifg
sharpened in defeat
to render hearts that
stay and fight forlorn
your stabbing motion
draws a soul to sleep
hypnotic gaze that meters
loves drawn scorn.
matt
ggamble
A muffled plonk-
a mere chit
of bloodsmudged down
waving on the doublepane
half a handful
still warm
glazed eye
so light with his little
brittle hollow bones.
George Dance
snip
http://groups.google.ca/group/alt.arts.poetry.comments/msg/4abb81f61314f8fe?hl=en
>
> Challenge:
>
> Write an imagist free verse poem. Try to write a new poem before turning to your
> own archives.
>
Around the fire
scent of burning leaves,
Crickets make music
for the circling dark –
Sudden water-sound,
then crickets again.
msifg
"ggamble" <g...@youbet.net> wrote in message
news:sPudnS9-0KsduDvU...@giganews.com...
"chit," as in little child, is an excellent
word.
the way this is worded draws
all kinds of possibilities as to what
the author is attempting to convey.
my first and lasting image is of some
hungry street kid, beggar.
i like it allot.
poeti...@yahoo.com
It's not a challenge until you write one, Karla.
Dale Houstman
Do you have a huge abandoned warehouse full of these tired haiku-like
blurps, or do you simply churn them out when the check comes in?
Really - they're atrocious in their ability to generate instant fatigue
in a reader.
dmh
George Dance
> A muffled plonk-
>
a poet is killfiling
> a mere chit
>
an uppity mud-person. He has thoughts
> of bloodsmudged down
>
> waving on the doublepane
>
tears the body open, grabs
> half a handful
>
of pulsing guts
> still warm
>
scarfs it down, topped with a
> glazed eye
>
like a grape.
Not filling at all,
> so light with his little
>
> brittle hollow bones.
full of yummy marrow.
ggamble
On 26-Feb-2009, "msifg" <gim...@cox.net> wrote:
> "chit," as in little child, is an excellent
> word.
Thanks for commenting.
I guess it's a good thing that you went to dictionary.com to look up a word
you were unfamiliar with.
It's a bit sad that you had to.
It's also pretty sad that you had a fifty percent chance of getting it
right, but still failed.
>
> the way this is worded draws
> all kinds of possibilities as to what
> the author is attempting to convey.
Thanks for commenting.
I think most literate people who are capable of reading with comprehension
would have not trouble discerning what the author was attempting to convey.
That would explain why it's such a deep, dark mystery to you.
> my first and lasting image is of some
> hungry street kid, beggar.
>
> i like it allot.
Thanks for commenting.
To veer away from this particular entry of the challenge for just a moment,
I may have discovered why you're incapable of writing anything worthwhile:
You can't read.
Thanks again for commenting.
ggamble
Oh look, the green-eyed troll couldn't control himself!
What a surprise!
It must really, really sting.
Thanks for commenting.
FarStar
to target in straight divine
striking to survive in shallow waters
paddling deeper to for bigger fish
but the swan knows not of these things
It paddles, it sweeps with beak
the jade, the gold, the silver
It nabs wallowing in water
scooping a five-sided coin
a medallion golden
clenched between beak pondering
swallowing squawks and preens
Digesting the universe of stars and moons
a black envelope of pricks of diamond
swan gliding on black water
swan gliding through to the moon
rippling black water as it paddles
the seas of divinity
paddling to freedom among the stars
it glides back into eternity
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Subjugate the rhyme and rawk with the rhythm
Only got one line to balk all the schizm
with god and laugh, bring all to shocking rose
with rod and staff we walk a rocky road
SteepleJack Beer
http://www.lulu.com/content/5611390
msifg
haha-
isn't that weird?
i'm illiterate and your poem appeals to me.
haha
ggamble
On 26-Feb-2009, "msifg" <gim...@cox.net> wrote:
> haha-
> isn't that weird?
> i'm illiterate and your poem appeals to me.
>
> haha
It's not that weird.
Magpies and ravens are attracted to shiny objects.
Even flatworms react to external stimuli.
Don't get too excited, you might have a *feeling*. (tm. Dennis)
Peter J Ross
<g...@youbet.net> wrote:
The "glazed eye" cliché is unworthy of you.
"half a handful", in context, is the best line here.
Do imagist poems have to eschew indicative verbs?
Sea Rose
--------
Rose, harsh rose,
marred and with stint of petals,
meagre flower, thin,
sparse of leaf,
more precious
than a wet rose,
single on a stem -
you are caught in the drift.
Stunted, with small leaf,
you are flung on the sands,
you are lifted
in the crisp sand
that drives in the wind.
Can the spice-rose
drip such acrid fragrance
hardened in a leaf?
"H.D.", 1915
I don't like this poem much (despite the inclusion of some very nice
phrases), but if "H.D." writing in 1915 didn't obey all the /Imagiste/
principles, as described by MK and quoted by Karla, why should anybody
else obey them? "H.D." is the *definitive* /Imagiste/ poet; people
like Pound, Lawrence and Williams soon moved on to write poems that
were less devoid of human involvement. The above sixteen lines by
"H.D." represent the limit of how long a poem can be without any
ostensible human involvement - the limit may even be exceeded.
Thanks to Karla for the opportunity to debate Imagism.
--
PJR :-)
Peter J Ross
Dance <george...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> a poet is killfiling
> an uppity mud-person. He has thoughts
> tears the body open, grabs
> of pulsing guts
> scarfs it down, topped with a
> like a grape.
> Not filling at all,
> full of yummy marrow.
Was this meant to be an Imagist poem? It's certainly not your worst
effort.
Y'know, George, all you have to do is to admit that the poems you've
posted here aren't very good, and immediately you'll be swamped with
helpful suggestions about how to make them better. It's your unfounded
high opinion of your current skills that makes you laughable.
ggamble
On 26-Feb-2009, Peter J Ross <p...@example.invalid> wrote:
> > A muffled plonk-
> >
> > a mere chit
> >
> > of bloodsmudged down
> >
> > waving on the doublepane
> >
> > half a handful
> >
> > still warm
> >
> > glazed eye
> >
> > so light with his little
> >
> > brittle hollow bones.
>
> The "glazed eye" cliché is unworthy of you.
Heh, thanks.
I had the same thought a few times.
In retrospect, maybe I was trying to link glazed back to the doublepane.
I guess it didn't work.
Perhaps I should've taken more than five minutes to compose this.
>
> "half a handful", in context, is the best line here.
>
> Do imagist poems have to eschew indicative verbs?
I was trying to go against my usual wordy tendencies.
Thanks for having a look.
msifg
>> poem or not?
>
>
> That's an excellent point, especially considering that you think it's
> about
> a street urchin.
>
> Perhaps you could spend a few decades trying to work out the answer to
> your
> own question.
>
> Good luck with that.
good point.
and thanks for having my best interest in mind with
the "good luck."
however, i won't need any luck because i'm an illiterate
for life. therefore, what good would luck do me?
besides, it takes rolling up ones sleeves and learning
how to read, which i clearly am guilty of NOT doing.
being the lazy bastard that i am, i don't think it
will happen in my future.
also, i want everything handed to me in this life.
i'm missing what's known as a work ethic.
so, i'm sorry to inform you that all of your efforts
to help me, out of the graciousness of your heart, are
in vein.
(you should know, (giggles), my cat is typing
this while i speak. i can't type either.
hehehehehe
ggamble
On 26-Feb-2009, "msifg" <gim...@cox.net> wrote:
> however, i won't need any luck because i'm an illiterate
> for life. therefore, what good would luck do me?
**Everyone can use a little luck.
I don't know, maybe you could get lucky and the literacy fairy could
sprinkle some of that magic fairy dust on you some day.
> besides, it takes rolling up ones sleeves and learning
> how to read, which i clearly am guilty of NOT doing.
> being the lazy bastard that i am, i don't think it
> will happen in my future.
**It sounds like you're a typical representative of your generation.
You get what you pay for.
> also, i want everything handed to me in this life.
> i'm missing what's known as a work ethic.
**You really are a typical representative of your generation.
No wait. That's not really true, I know at least a dozen twenty to thirty
somethings who are working hard to make something of their lives.
People grow up and wake up sometimes.
Maybe you will.
>
> so, i'm sorry to inform you that all of your efforts
> to help me, out of the graciousness of your heart, are
> in vein.
**You're a junky too?
That's not good.
msifg
haha-
thanks so much for the continued support.
is it ever going to end?
you're just a fountain of useful, constructive,
helpful, intuitive advise. and it's all for me.
gary-
will you marry me?
i mean, we might as well be married with
all of the interest you have in my development
as a human being. and, we could enrich each others
lives so much. i could be there, chin up,
attitude adjusted, in anticipation of your
expert advice at every offer; you could indulge
in helping a lost cause like me, which you've
clearly shown you want to do with all of this
attention you give me.
we would be with each other night and day.
i would follow you around wherever you went
begging for every drop of information i could get
from that amazing mind of yours that will surely
be kept for research purposes when you part
from the earth.
please, think it over. let me know your answer.
muwah!
a kiss just for you.
msifg
"Karla" <kar...@NEVERcomcast.net> wrote in message
news:9ivbq4lmt26vlcquq...@4ax.com...
>
> If you're unable to write a poem for the challenge, please read and
> criticque
> the poems that hopefully will be posted.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Karla
>
>
karla,
when you open up a contest like this in the future,
make sure you explain that clowns are allowed to
participate as well as the general public.
that way, one can prepare for gestures and juggling
acts to come with serious and constructive
criticism.
just a suggestion, dearie.
ggamble
On 26-Feb-2009, "msifg" <gim...@cox.net> wrote:
> karla,
> when you open up a contest like this in the future,
> make sure you explain that clowns are allowed to
> participate as well as the general public.
I'm sure that Karla doesn't mind that you, george and farstar attempted to
participate.
Why would you think otherwise?
FarStar
> I'm sure that Karla doesn't mind that you, george and farstar attempted to
> participate.
> Why would you think otherwise?
and who would you be inspiring to delusion these days butt-rapist
ggamble
On 26-Feb-2009, FarStar <ecowb...@gmailREMOVEME.com> wrote:
> ggamble fanged:
>
> > I'm sure that Karla doesn't mind that you, george and farstar attempted
> > to
> > participate.
> > Why would you think otherwise?
>
> and who would you be inspiring to delusion these days butt-rapist
I'm sorry, I'm not conversant in whatever-the-fuck language it is that
you're attempting to communicate in.
Try Babelfish.
Or, maybe you could put down the crackpipe if that's your problem.
I hope this helps.
msifg
see?
he always tries to help.
i'm seeing stars.
i think...
i'm in love.
gary, gary, gary-
i want you.
please, be with me forever!
Peter J Ross
> butt-rapist
Karla
Matt, talk us through your poem. How is it an imagist free verse poem?
Thanks,
Karla
Karla
The sounds in the last two lines are my favorite part of the poem. Your five
shows up best there where light bleeds into little, which bleeds into brittle,
brittle into hollow, hollow into bones. Dawdling over those words, it doesn't
bother me that I read the poem numerous times searching for a verb. The last two
lines echo the fate of the chit. We hear the sound change beginning with the
bright "i" of light, ending with the gonging sounds of "hollow bones".
Though I agree with Peter about "glazed eye", I appreciate it's reach upwards
and downwards; there's a temptation to break after "glazed", reading "eye / so
light" - a minute of froth.
I'm least fond of the repeated word order in the first two lines.
Your line breaks work.
Thanks,
Karla
Karla
wrote:
>On Feb 25, 10:24 pm, Karla <karl...@NEVERcomcast.net> wrote:
How is this imagist free verse? There's a reach for haiku in it.
Consider slashing "around the fire", "making music", "circling", "sudden",
"-sound" and "again". I'm not joking. So few words as it is, not enough of an
observation. Play around with the sounds and scene so common that we don't need
any of your directional words.
Thanks,
Karla
Karla
wrote:
>The Swan flies with knives
>to target in straight divine
>striking to survive in shallow waters
>paddling deeper to for bigger fish
>but the swan knows not of these things
>
>It paddles, it sweeps with beak
>the jade, the gold, the silver
>
>It nabs wallowing in water
>scooping a five-sided coin
>a medallion golden
>clenched between beak pondering
>swallowing squawks and preens
>
>Digesting the universe of stars and moons
>a black envelope of pricks of diamond
>swan gliding on black water
>swan gliding through to the moon
>rippling black water as it paddles
>the seas of divinity
>paddling to freedom among the stars
>it glides back into eternity
Is there a reason for capitalizing "Swan"? Also, in the fourth line, I'm stopped
as I try to figure out if you didn't completely edit out either "to" or "for",
or if you meant "to" to be "too". You break from the picture you're painting
with the line "but the swan knows not of these things". There's a waste of
repetition that I don't associate with imagist free verse in several places. One
place, for instance: "It nabs . . . scooping . . . coin . . . medallion . . ."
There's an uneven point of view where the speaker jumps in and out of the swan's
head, sometimes observing the swan's flight, sometimes personifying the swan
("pondering"). I'd also suggest crafting the poem such that our experience
reading through the poem brings us to the same conclusion that you tell us in
the last stanza.
I'd guess that you want to write an impressionistic poem. This strains away from
reserve, brevity.
I like "swallowing squawks and preens".
Karla
Karla
Really? Is that in the Book of Hoyle or something?
I plan on writing one. I'm thinking about it.
Will you write one too?
Karla
tx_max_king
> Write an imagist free verse poem.
Nice try, Karla.
As usual gumby and p p
turn it into a pissing contest.
The literary supremacists strike again.
How many times has this repeated.
Their feeble poetic attempts
and then to silence with insult.
It's a sign of the times.
Creativity police kill again.
Write on, brothers in arms!
msifg
"Karla" <kar...@NEVERcomcast.net> wrote in message
to be honest, i didn't know if it was "imagist freeverse" for sure.
however, here's the rundown as to why it works as a cliché free,
image building poem:
(oh pangs of love so
sharpened in defeat)
an evocation made obvious in the third stanza.
the cliché would be..oh arrows of love that
stab right through my heart...
while the line hints at that to the point
of maybe fooling the reader into thinking that's
what they've read, the opposite is true. let me
demonstrate:
a pang, noun, is a spasm, sudden sharp pain;
love as noun is often referred to as an intense feeling.
the translation would be...oh sharp spasms of intense
feeling so sharpened in defeat...
the author used "defeat" in a generalized way as in
all around defeat in the affairs of love which
is a well known subject matter throughout the history
of literature, further hinting the possibility
of cliché, but not sealing the deal quite yet.
(to render hearts that stay and fight forlorn)
hearts as noun can be persons. however, it can
have a duel meaning in the affairs of love. it
can mean intense intention and focus in the affairs of love.
usually, in the avocation of love, hearts come
to mean desires and motivations. the term...
their heart was not in it...comes to mind.
that they...stay and fight...sets up the
dichotomy...what are hearts fighting an aspect
of love for? usually, hearts and love are on
the same side. in this instance, they're fighting
for control of the thing they're an integral
part of. this line sets up a personal internal
war. "forlorn" exposes the futility of this
war. the author lets the reader know that
the outcome of this conflict has already been
decided while the remaining hearts still fight.
(your stabbing motion draws a soul to sleep)
this seals the evocation to the "pangs of love."
this exposes the author as an observer, participant
and play by play narrator.
the stabbing motion creates the image of a sharpened
object, we'll say dagger. this image is reinforced
by "sharpened" and "pangs" in the first stanza.
it also refers the experienced reader back to
the hinting cliché of...oh arrows of love that
stab... it begs for cliché to expose itself
fully, but only gets hints and teases.
a "soul" as noun can, again, be a person. in the
affairs of love, it can be a person searching
for illumination. it's similar to the word
heart in this manner.
this line sets up the horror or macabre that
your intro explanation of image freeverse
appeared to point to. it has a poe-esk feel
to it, especially when read allowed using
a Vincent Price manner of speaking.
(hypnotic gaze that meters loves drawn scorn.)
more reference to the stabbing motion. "hypnotic"
can be the thing being hypnotized. the gaze
refers to the zombie like gaze of the hypnotized
hearts and souls that are losing this fight
rapidly.
meters equals measures as verb.
loves drawn scorn demonstrates the full view
of this personal internal conflict, or personal
"civil war." love vs. the heart. both,
through literary history, are supposed to be
on the same side. now, loves drawn, or laid
out, scorn has been exposed. this wraps
up the poem by revealing the cause of the
strife- loves drawn scorn, contempt, disdain,
disregard, ridicule, mocking, teasing, sneering,
etc.
in essence, this poem describes one being stabbed
in the back by ones own intentions.
a little bit more intense and thought out than
a chit on the side of the road with hollow
bones, wouldn't you say?
Dale Houstman
>
> "Karla" <kar...@NEVERcomcast.net> wrote in message
> news:ilveq49pc31ndmdfg...@4ax.com...
>> On Wed, 25 Feb 2009 21:13:00 -0700, "msifg" <gim...@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>>> oh pangs of love so
>>> sharpened in defeat
>>>
>>> to render hearts that
>>> stay and fight forlorn
>>>
>>> your stabbing motion
>>> draws a soul to sleep
>>>
>>> hypnotic gaze that meters
>>> loves drawn scorn.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> matt
>>
>> Matt, talk us through your poem. How is it an imagist free verse poem?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Karla
>
>
>
> to be honest, i didn't know if it was "imagist freeverse" for sure.
>
> however, here's the rundown as to why it works as a cliché free,
> image building poem:
>
> (oh pangs of love so
> sharpened in defeat)
>
You actually think "pangs of love" makes the poem cliché-free? Wow! A
stunning victory in the war against intelligence...A poem you proclaim
to be free of cliché contains one of the most egregious bits of
hackneyed pork IN THE FIRST LINE!
dmh
Manwolf
The shark ate the man's
testicles who was riding
on a Ski Doo.
Though the waters
were full of blood,
everyone was still
cheering.
His last, final stunt
came off
absolutely with a hitch.
poeti...@yahoo.com
> On Thu, 26 Feb 2009 03:59:23 -0800 (PST), poetic_i...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >On Feb 25, 10:24 pm, Karla <karl...@NEVERcomcast.net> wrote:
[...]
> >> Challenge:
>
> >> Write an imagist free verse poem. Try to write a new poem before turning to your
> >> own archives.
>
> >> If you're unable to write a poem for the challenge, please read and criticque
> >> the poems that hopefully will be posted.
>
> >> Thanks,
>
> >> Karla
>
> >It's not a challenge until you write one, Karla.
>
> Really? Is that in the Book of Hoyle or something?
>
> I plan on writing one. I'm thinking about it.
>
> Will you write one too?
>
> Karla
I'm searching for it. In the moment a bit of an Art Deco phase of
failure strikes me after a disappointing experience with glass. The
intended sunburst envisioned using triangles eluded skill and settled
for cubist forms of silly squares and rectangles. Colorful grids
within which firing should reveal a 'random' gift or go bust if the
air won't squeeze itself from the framework of the design.
That's usually where I'm at in writing. I hope you post one. I should
like to see how you as my muse further affect me.
msifg
"Dale Houstman" <dm...@skypoint.com> wrote in message
news:OeadnVIVAaCVLTrU...@skypoint.com...
i'm done with my explanation.
i'm moving on.
if it doesn't work for you or anybody else,
fine.
however, it helped me get through some personal
stuff, clichéd or not.
for that, i'm grateful for the experience of writing it
and sharing it.
ggamble
On 27-Feb-2009, tx_max_king <txmx...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Write an imagist free verse poem.
>
> Nice try, Karla.
> As usual gumby and p p
> turn it into a pissing contest.
> The literary supremacists strike again.
>
> How many times has this repeated.
> Their feeble poetic attempts
> and then to silence with insult.
>
> It's a sign of the times.
> Creativity police kill again.
>
> Write on, brothers in arms!
Heh, shouldn't you be in Disneyland with your hero, Bobby Jindal?
I must warn you to not say anything negative about Bobby, your master hath
ordained that the brethren shall not criticize him upon pain of
excommunication from the freakshow brigade. And you know how you people
don't function well without your group identity to prop you up.
Peter and I were arguably the only ones to post poems which fit the
constraints of the challenge.
I notice you weren't up to the task, and never will be in this lifetime.
It's ok though, you can just jeer from the sidelines as usual.
P.S.: Are you writing as yourself, or as your delusional paranoid right wing
nutjob persona?
Or, have you finally given up all pretence that what you spew isn't really
just the ruptured bleatings of the bitter psycho that you are?
And how silly am I to even ask?
If there really were creativity police, how the hell do you think you'd be
allowed to post here?
Really, give your head a shake.
ggamble
On 27-Feb-2009, "msifg" <gm...@cx.nt> wrote:
> a little bit more intense and thought out than
> a chit on the side of the road with hollow
> bones, wouldn't you say?
You're almost as bitter and jealous as george, and that's saying a lot.
P.S. Where did you see a *road*, illiterate moron, the same place you saw
the street urchin?
jesus fuck almighty
Don't forget how yesterday you liked it *allot* (sic)
heh
ggamble
On 27-Feb-2009, "msifg" <gm...@cx.nt> wrote:
> i'm done with my explanation.
>
> i'm moving on.
Please God, let this be true.
> if it doesn't work for you or anybody else,
> fine.
Wait a minute, you actually Thought it would Work for someone?
You are so delusional and unlettered that you thought:
a) that your typing somehow fit the constraints of Karla's challenge.
and
b) that what you typed somehow had some literary merit beyond your apparenty
psychiatric need to spew?
> however, it helped me get through some personal
> stuff, clichéd or not.
I guess I should have read on before I posed my queries.
I think you and that idiot farstar cowboy freak subscribe to the *poetry as
therapy* dog and pony show that teenagers everywhere wallow in with
solipistic pleasure. That would be borderline ok if you and he were
actually teenagers. But you two aren't really teenagers, are you?
> for that, i'm grateful for the experience of writing it
> and sharing it.
Wouldn't it have been better for you if you had written it out longhand in
pink crayon and pushpinned it to the corkboard next to your My Little Pony
collection?
Dude, get some help.
Step away from the keyboard.
You're not even funny.
George Dance
> On Wed, 25 Feb 2009 23:40:54 -0800 (PST), George Dance <georgedanc...@yahoo.ca>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> >On Feb 25, 10:24 pm, Karla <karl...@NEVERcomcast.net> wrote:
>
> >snip
>
> >> Challenge:
>
> >> Write an imagist free verse poem. Try to write a new poem before turning to your
> >> own archives.
>
> >Around the fire
> >scent of burning leaves,
>
> >Crickets make music
> >for the circling dark –
>
> >Sudden water-sound,
> >then crickets again.
>
> How is this imagist free verse? There's a reach for haiku in it.
>
??? Haiku is imagist verse; "the
turning of a single impression into a perfectly polished verbal
expression".
And I'd call the above 'free verse' because it's not a haiku or
anything else; it's an open form.
> Consider slashing "around the fire", "making music", "circling", "sudden",
> "-sound" and "again". I'm not joking. So few words as it is, not enough of an
> observation. Play around with the sounds and scene so common that we don't need
> any of your directional words.
>
Hmmm ... What do you think of this?
-
Silence
and a deeper silence
when the crickets
hesitate
> Thanks,
>
> Karla
ggamble
On 27-Feb-2009, George Dance <george...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> Hmmm ... What do you think of this?
>
> -
>
> Silence
>
>
> and a deeper silence
>
>
> when the crickets
>
>
> hesitate
Do you know what an image is?
George Dance
> On 27-Feb-2009, George Dance <georgedanc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
<unsnip>
> > ??? Haiku is imagist verse; "the
> turning of a single impression into a perfectly polished verbal
>
>
> Do you know what an image is?
Silly troll; if you'd read the posts before you snipped them, you
probably wouldn't have to ask questions like that.
If you find you have to ask what an image is anyway, BTW, you might
find it less embarrassing to ask one of your "online friends" in an
email.
ggamble
On 27-Feb-2009, George Dance <george...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> > Do you know what an image is?
>
>
> Silly troll; if you'd read the posts before you snipped them, you
> probably wouldn't have to ask questions like that.
Yes, you are a silly troll, thanks for finally admitting it.
But, now you're a silly troll who demonstrably doesn't know what an image
is.
> If you find you have to ask what an image is anyway, BTW, you might
> find it less embarrassing to ask one of your "online friends" in an
> email.
Imagine, you attempting to tell me how to be less embarrassed!
I've known about images and imagery for over thirty years, silly troll.
You've yet to demonstrate that you even are aware that such things as images
exist.
Hey, why don't you post another *poem*, I haven't had a really good fit of
laughter yet today.
Will Dockery
Dale Houstman wrote:
> Manwolf wrote:
> > George Dance wrote:
> >> I realize that, like all the others, that's an improv;
> >
> > Yes, 30 seconds to be exact
>
> An irrelevant number. Whether it took you five days, five hours, five
> centuries, or a nanosecond, ALL the time was wasted.
In other words, you "wasted your time" because you found nothing you
could steal and turn into one of "your" poems?
--
"Shadowvill Speedway" & other song-poems:
http://www.myspace.com/willdockery
Manwolf
Essentially that is the case, considering his last collage (collision?)
of words didn't work out that well.
Will Dockery
Manwolf wrote:
> Essentially that is the case, considering his last collage (collision?)
> of words didn't work out that well.
His self-described method of "collage & plagiarism in the post-art
modern times"... yeah, right. Back in the day we called his ilk
"thieves".
msifg
i just threw "road" in there.
there was no official quote delivered anyway.
calm down pecker breath.
msifg
wow-
this is more gary than i bargained for.
i should write slightly above average poetry more
often.
btw-
why are you so peppy lately?
did you win the lottery?
did a kid move out of the house?
did your wife start paying sexual attention to you
again after twenty years of ignoring your fat ass?
please, indulge me/us.
ggamble
On 26-Feb-2009, Karla <kar...@NEVERcomcast.net> wrote:
> The sounds in the last two lines are my favorite part of the poem. Your
> five
> shows up best there where light bleeds into little, which bleeds into
> brittle,
> brittle into hollow, hollow into bones. Dawdling over those words, it
> doesn't
> bother me that I read the poem numerous times searching for a verb. The
> last two
> lines echo the fate of the chit. We hear the sound change beginning with
> the
> bright "i" of light, ending with the gonging sounds of "hollow bones".
>
> Though I agree with Peter about "glazed eye", I appreciate it's reach
> upwards
> and downwards; there's a temptation to break after "glazed", reading "eye
> / so
> light" - a minute of froth.
>
> I'm least fond of the repeated word order in the first two lines.
>
> Your line breaks work.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Karla
Really good comments, Karla, thanks.
I tried not to overthink anything or really revise it.
I thought it grew as it went along, but now that you mention the opening,
I don't like those first two lines much either.
Thanks for posing the challenge.
George Dance
Most likely reasons:
1) He's found some backup.
2) He thinks he wrote a poem.
rand...@gmail.com
> A muffled plonk-
>
> a mere chit
>
> of bloodsmudged down
>
> waving on the doublepane
>
> half a handful
>
> still warm
>
> glazed eye
>
> so light with his little
>
> brittle hollow bones.
Gary, can you stand one more comment? Mere stands out to me,
distractingly, as emotion-tugging.
Randy
rand...@gmail.com
>
> Write an imagist free verse poem. Try to write a new poem before turning to your
> own archives.
>
Crickets sunbathing
on fresh pavement
snap black from my wheels.
A look down back and we fail
from shoulder into sky.
Randy
msifg
"George Dance" <george...@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:910d5a68-65a2-4c98...@q11g2000vbn.googlegroups.com...
Most likely reasons:
*he wrote a slightly above average poem, if that.
i enjoyed it. i won't go back on my initial
observation.
the funny thing is, karla liked is as well.
so, my initial observation turned out to be
karla proof.
maybe gumball should've held back on punking
me. now he looks like the complete idiot we've
always suspected he was.
of course, all of this means i'm upset that
gary wrote a poem. my goodness. me, and just
about everybody else that breaths around here,
are overjoyed. finally something other than
jesus fuck to read from the ccumball.
praise the lord!!!
by all means, i'm very upset and envious.
please go for more POETRY, hahahha
ggamble
On 28-Feb-2009, rand...@gmail.com wrote:
> Gary, can you stand one more comment? Mere stands out to me,
> distractingly, as emotion-tugging.
>
> Randy
Thanks for the comment.
Now, three of us have a problem with those first two lines.
I appreciate you having a look.
George Dance
> Oh look, the green-eyed troll couldn't control himself!
>
> What a surprise!
>
> It must really, really sting.
It did bring tears to my eyes.
Let's unsnip it for all to share the "experience."
Chit
A muffled plonk-
a mere chit
of bloodsmudged down
waving on the doublepane
half a handful
still warm
glazed eye
so light with his little
brittle hollow bones.
> Thanks for commenting.
Oh, right, you need a comment. OK. It's not a poem, and nothing like a
poem. At best, iIt's a bunch of phrases that you might be able to work
into a poem, without inducing cringing, if you work hard enough (which
of course you won't).
You're welcome.
msifg
Chit
A muffled plonk-
a mere chit
of bloodsmudged down
waving on the doublepane
half a handful
still warm
glazed eye
brittle hollow bones.
> Thanks for commenting.
You're welcome.
*shhh-
george, please:
these latest events regarding gary's
"poem" might just get him to start
writing something other than "jesus fuck"
all of the time.
i'll go ahead and say it right now:
gary-
you're the best fuckin poet this side
of the milky way.
please, write more poems.
pretty please with a hershey's
chocolate kiss
on top.
ggamble
On 28-Feb-2009, George Dance <george...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> > Thanks for commenting.
>
> Oh, right, you need a comment. OK. It's not a poem, and nothing like a
> poem. At best, iIt's a bunch of phrases that you might be able to work
> into a poem, without inducing cringing, if you work hard enough (which
> of course you won't).
>
> You're welcome.
If you had any self-awareness at all, you'd be able to school us all on the
cringe factor.
Maybe if Leonard Cohen put some roadside crickets on the street urchin you'd
like it more, green-eyed troll.
It really stings, doesn't it?
I think it hurts you so much that you won't be able to let it go for months.
You'll get over it eventually, I'm sure, green-eyed troll.
Or not.
Do you remember the part about *consider the source of all comments*?
Well, it applies here.
If someone whose opinion I respect had something to say about the piece, I'd
certainly take notice.
Even the Randy person who commented (I don't even know who he is, but I
sense that he isn't a moron indulging in some usenet vendetta) had a
relevant comment.
You could learn something from this, but, of course, you won't.
You couldn't even respond to Karla's commentary on your own piece with any
degree of grace.
No one is surprised.
Carry on. The world needs more laughter.
ggamble
On 28-Feb-2009, "msifg" <gm...@cx.nt> wrote:
> pretty please
How old are you, really?
Are you currently under the care of a qualified medical practitioner?
Are you jkharvey's sockpuppet?
3 down, 17 to go.
msifg
well, you're in luck.
jkharvey thinks i'm an illiterate moron.
wait a minute-
that means you and jkharvey have something in
common. and now that you've posted a poem after
ten years of tugging around a dead dog,
you have two things in common.
i sense a pact in the works.
ggamble
On 28-Feb-2009, "msifg" <gm...@cx.nt> wrote:
> jkharvey thinks i'm an illiterate moron.
1) Name one person in the world who doesn't think you're an illiterate
moron. (besides sherrie lee)
2) You just made that up, you have no way of knowing what jkharvey thinks
because he's incapable of communicating such a complex concept using the
written word.
3) What about the other questions?
msifg
wrong on everything.
my mom thinks i'm literate.
sherrie lee knows i can't spell worth a shit,
but i don't think she has the stomach to claim
an "illiteracy" on my part.
i could give a fuck less about jkharvey.
what the fuck is jkharvey anyway.
i only heard about it/him/her when they
called me an illiterate moron.
that's not very nice, btw.
i may be allot of things but
illiterate is far from one of them.
when's the last time you meditated
upon edmund husserl's "analysis
concerning active and passive
synthesis" in phenomenological
reductionism?
i'll answer for you:
never.
ggamble
On 28-Feb-2009, "msifg" <gm...@cx.nt> wrote:
>
> my mom thinks i'm literate.
That's what mothers are for.
Did she homeschool you?
Is she still homeschooling you?
> when's the last time you meditated
> upon edmund husserl's "analysis
> concerning active and passive
> synthesis" in phenomenological
> reductionism?
msifg
>
> On 28-Feb-2009, "msifg" <gm...@cx.nt> wrote:
>
>
>>
>> my mom thinks i'm literate.
>
> That's what mothers are for.
> Did she homeschool you?
> Is she still homeschooling you?
>
from four hundred miles away.
i talk to her at least once a week.
i'm a momma's boy.
i admit it.
ggamble
On 26-Feb-2009, Peter J Ross <p...@example.invalid> wrote:
> > a poet is killfiling
>
> > an uppity mud-person. He has thoughts
>
> > tears the body open, grabs
>
> > of pulsing guts
>
> > scarfs it down, topped with a
>
> > like a grape.
>
> > Not filling at all,
>
> > full of yummy marrow.
I wonder if Leonard Cohen wrote this one too.
ggamble
On 25-Feb-2009, George Dance <george...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> Around the fire
> scent of burning leaves,
>
> Crickets make music
> for the circling dark –
>
> Sudden water-sound,
> then crickets again.
Did Leonard Cohen write this one too?
Gwyneth
> A muffled plonk-
>
> a mere chit
>
> of bloodsmudged down
>
> waving on the doublepane
>
> half a handful
>
> still warm
>
> glazed eye
>
> so light with his little
>
> brittle hollow bones.
Hi Gary,
Quibbling:
'plonk' is too heavy a word for what
I think I'd hear in reality.
'mere' is probably the first word that
comes to mind as a qualifier for 'chit'
which may make it a cliché. And PJR's
already pointed out the 'glazed eye'.
I find three consecutive adjectives at
the end far too much, and the density
of the sounds there, though impressive,
detracts from the idea of lightness.
All those niggles, though, are minor
when put in the balance against:
" chit
of bloodsmudged down
waving on the doublepane"
- the image works, sounds good, is clear
and evocative.
Thanks for posting.
g.
ggamble
On 28-Feb-2009, Gwyneth <gwy...@patchword.com> wrote:
> Hi Gary,
>
> Quibbling:
>
> 'plonk' is too heavy a word for what
> I think I'd hear in reality.
>
> 'mere' is probably the first word that
> comes to mind as a qualifier for 'chit'
> which may make it a cliché. And PJR's
> already pointed out the 'glazed eye'.
>
> I find three consecutive adjectives at
> the end far too much, and the density
> of the sounds there, though impressive,
> detracts from the idea of lightness.
>
>
> All those niggles, though, are minor
> when put in the balance against:
> " chit
> of bloodsmudged down
> waving on the doublepane"
>
> - the image works, sounds good, is clear
> and evocative.
>
> Thanks for posting.
>
> g.
Thanks for having a look, g.
It's a far cry from my usual, I'll admit.
I'm usually so wordy and dense.
It's good to stretch things out every now and again.
I'm glad Karla threw down the gauntlet.
ggamble
On 27-Feb-2009, tx_max_king <txmx...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Their feeble poetic attempts
> and then to silence with insult.
Good luck with that gargantuan grammar problem you have.
FarStar
>
> "Karla" <kar...@NEVERcomcast.net> wrote in message
> news:ilveq49pc31ndmdfg...@4ax.com...
>> On Wed, 25 Feb 2009 21:13:00 -0700, "msifg" <gim...@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>>>oh pangs of love so
>>>sharpened in defeat
>>>
>>>to render hearts that
>>>stay and fight forlorn
>>>
>>>your stabbing motion
>>>draws a soul to sleep
>>>
>>>hypnotic gaze that meters
>>>loves drawn scorn.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>matt
>>
>> Matt, talk us through your poem. How is it an imagist free verse poem?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Karla
>
>
>
> to be honest, i didn't know if it was "imagist freeverse" for sure.
>
> however, here's the rundown as to why it works as a cliché free,
> image building poem:
>
> (oh pangs of love so
> sharpened in defeat)
>
> an evocation made obvious in the third stanza.
>
> the cliché would be..oh arrows of love that
> stab right through my heart...
> while the line hints at that to the point
> of maybe fooling the reader into thinking that's
> what they've read, the opposite is true. let me
> demonstrate:
> a pang, noun, is a spasm, sudden sharp pain;
> love as noun is often referred to as an intense feeling.
> the translation would be...oh sharp spasms of intense
> feeling so sharpened in defeat...
> the author used "defeat" in a generalized way as in
> all around defeat in the affairs of love which
> is a well known subject matter throughout the history
> of literature, further hinting the possibility
> of cliché, but not sealing the deal quite yet.
>
> (to render hearts that stay and fight forlorn)
>
> hearts as noun can be persons. however, it can
> have a duel meaning in the affairs of love. it
> can mean intense intention and focus in the affairs of love.
> usually, in the avocation of love, hearts come
> to mean desires and motivations. the term...
> their heart was not in it...comes to mind.
> that they...stay and fight...sets up the
> dichotomy...what are hearts fighting an aspect
Why did you want to set up a dichotomy, that just divides
the ideas? If you set a duality however, that contrasts
and allows progression of both ideas no matter which
idea your speaking on at any given time because they
constantly contrast, being entangled.
A dichotomy is just a seed for something else I suppose
but it itself doesn't grow, but gives rise to something else
that will grow, through alloying the ideas, as they aren't
necessarily contrasting or related in anyway;
these necessitate a division, setting up contrast, and resolution
of their differences, subsequent resolution exposition
Whereas, dualities bypass directly to resolution and subsequent
resolution exposition for whatever topic you've set up in the metaphor
duality, life & death, wine&roses, spring&fall, summer&winter
Earth&sky, fire&water, work&play, simplicity&ostentation
dichotomies elm&cottownwood, lampshades&clouds, science&religion,
rap&rock,
all dualities are dichotomies, but not all dichotomies are dualities
ummm, going to go write a response now, don't know if I'll use a duality
cause they take a lot of work to set up as well, but in the mind not the
page. I guess that's the trade off.
> of love for? usually, hearts and love are on
> the same side. in this instance, they're fighting
> for control of the thing they're an integral
> part of. this line sets up a personal internal
> war. "forlorn" exposes the futility of this
> war. the author lets the reader know that
> the outcome of this conflict has already been
> decided while the remaining hearts still fight.
>
> (your stabbing motion draws a soul to sleep)
>
> this seals the evocation to the "pangs of love."
> this exposes the author as an observer, participant
> and play by play narrator.
>
> the stabbing motion creates the image of a sharpened
> object, we'll say dagger. this image is reinforced
> by "sharpened" and "pangs" in the first stanza.
> it also refers the experienced reader back to
> the hinting cliché of...oh arrows of love that
> stab... it begs for cliché to expose itself
> fully, but only gets hints and teases.
>
> a "soul" as noun can, again, be a person. in the
> affairs of love, it can be a person searching
> for illumination. it's similar to the word
> heart in this manner.
>
> this line sets up the horror or macabre that
> your intro explanation of image freeverse
> appeared to point to. it has a poe-esk feel
> to it, especially when read allowed using
> a Vincent Price manner of speaking.
>
> (hypnotic gaze that meters loves drawn scorn.)
>
> more reference to the stabbing motion. "hypnotic"
> can be the thing being hypnotized. the gaze
> refers to the zombie like gaze of the hypnotized
> hearts and souls that are losing this fight
> rapidly.
>
> meters equals measures as verb.
>
> loves drawn scorn demonstrates the full view
> of this personal internal conflict, or personal
> "civil war." love vs. the heart. both,
> through literary history, are supposed to be
> on the same side. now, loves drawn, or laid
> out, scorn has been exposed. this wraps
> up the poem by revealing the cause of the
> strife- loves drawn scorn, contempt, disdain,
> disregard, ridicule, mocking, teasing, sneering,
> etc.
>
> in essence, this poem describes one being stabbed
> in the back by ones own intentions.
>
> a little bit more intense and thought out than
> a chit on the side of the road with hollow
> bones, wouldn't you say?
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Subjugate the rhyme and rawk with the rhythm
Only got one line to balk all the schizm
with god and laugh, bring all to shocking rose
with rod and staff we walk a rocky road
SteepleJack Beer
http://www.lulu.com/content/5611390
FarStar
> oh pangs of love so
> sharpened in defeat
>
> to render hearts that
> stay and fight forlorn
>
> your stabbing motion
> draws a soul to sleep
>
> hypnotic gaze that meters
> loves drawn scorn.
>
>
>
> matt
Xeroxing the proof
I lean into the glare
holding down the frown
of paying everytime I come near
and stand pressing down
my words upon the glass
It's bulky mass eats my dollars
in its 25 cent butt-raping
per page, it hates
But I pursue, despite the
people that smoke and piss on my clothes
as the xerox machine takes my money
near the hideous smoking machines
I post my complaints and fight
the smell on the bulletin board above
the ashtray
I can only hope they die of lung-cancer
in their day-to-day
They prey for their own destruction
I pray for their owned destruction
for as much as they pray for destruction
wrong step, wrong step, wrong step
wrong step, wrong step, wrong step
whenever I can find the time to meditate
no one I know has a more unhappy, cynical,
insecure life than a pissing snark
Why should I breed fear, too?
Because my clothes smell like shit
wrong step, wrong step, wrong step
God forbid they be accountable as terrorists
What if they destroyed something important
like oh, I don't know, say the twin towers
wrong step, wrong step, wrong step
wrong step, wrong step, wrong step
wrong step wrong step wrong step
wrong step wrong step wrong step
wrong step wrong step wrong step
wrong step wrong step wrong step
wrong step wrong step wrong step
-- your shit is from God
msifg
"FarStar" <ecowb...@gmailREMOVEME.com> wrote in message
news:M8KdnYm1romPCjTU...@giganews.com...
you've exposed the heart of the shit.
many souls are waiting in limbo for your
return.
go easy, great knight.
the next few hours will be an intense, slaughter
filled fight.
the juiciest pussy imaginable awaits your return.
or, death may die a thousand times before it realizes
it's dead.
who cares about "dead" anyway?
let's party!!!!
Karla
wrote:
>On Feb 27, 1:16 am, Karla <karl...@NEVERcomcast.net> wrote:
>> On Wed, 25 Feb 2009 23:40:54 -0800 (PST), George Dance <georgedanc...@yahoo.ca>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> >On Feb 25, 10:24 pm, Karla <karl...@NEVERcomcast.net> wrote:
>>
>> >snip
>> >http://groups.google.ca/group/alt.arts.poetry.comments/msg/4abb81f613...
>>
>> >> Challenge:
>>
>> >> Write an imagist free verse poem. Try to write a new poem before turning to your
>> >> own archives.
>>
>> >Around the fire
>> >scent of burning leaves,
>>
>> >Crickets make music
>> >for the circling dark –
>>
>> >Sudden water-sound,
>> >then crickets again.
>>
>> How is this imagist free verse? There's a reach for haiku in it.
>>
>
>
>??? Haiku is imagist verse; "the
>turning of a single impression into a perfectly polished verbal
>expression".
>
>And I'd call the above 'free verse' because it's not a haiku or
>anything else; it's an open form.
>
>
>> Consider slashing "around the fire", "making music", "circling", "sudden",
>> "-sound" and "again". I'm not joking. So few words as it is, not enough of an
>> observation. Play around with the sounds and scene so common that we don't need
>> any of your directional words.
>>
>
>Hmmm ... What do you think of this?
>
>-
>
>Silence
>
>
>and a deeper silence
>
>
>when the crickets
>
>
>hesitate
What's up with trying to pass this off as yours?
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Karla
Karla
Not at all certain that I had a handle on what was meant by "imagism", I began
re-reading some of the original imagists: Pound, T.E. Hulme, H.D., Richard
Aldington, D.H. Lawrence, William Carlos Williams, Ford Maddox Ford. Of course,
I read again Pound's exquisite "In a Station of the Metro".
In a Station of the Metro
The apparition of these faces in the crowd;
Petals on a wet, black bough.
--Ezra Pound
The footnote to the poem included in The Norton Anthology of Modern Poetry:
"Of this poem Pound writes in Gaudier-Brzeska: "Three years ago in Paris I got
out of a "metro" train at La Concorde, and saw suddenly a beautiful face, and
then another and another, and then a beautiful child’s face, and then another
beautiful woman, and I tried all that day to find words for what this had meant
to me, and I could not find any words that seemed to me worthy, or as lovely as
that sudden emotion. And that evening . . . I was still trying and I found,
suddenly, the expression. I do not mean that I found words, but there came an
equation . . . not in speech, but in little splotches of colour. . . . The "one
image poem" is a form of super-position, that is to say, it is one idea set on
top of another. I found it useful in getting out of the impasse in which I had
been left by my metro emotion. I wrote a thirty-line poem, and destroyed it
because it was what we call work "of second intensity." Six months later I made
a poem half that length; a year later I made the following hokku-like
sentence.""
There's not much I can say after that. I can observe his process, honesty,
determination. I can permit his "hokku-like sentence" and his process to become
a lodestar in my own travels.
On the web, I found Amy Lowell's comments on Imagism:
http://www.english.illinois.edu/Maps/poets/g_l/amylowell/imagism.htm
She comments on the following imagist tenets:
"In the preface to the anthology, "Some Imagist Poets," [1916] there is set down
a brief list of tenets to which the poets contributing to it mutually agreed. I
do not mean that they pledged themselves as to a creed. I mean that they all
found themselves in accord upon these simple rules.
I propose to take up these rules presently, one by one, and explain them in
detail, but I will first set them down in order:
1. To use the language of common speech, but to employ always the exact word,
not the nearly-exact, nor the merely decorative word.
2. To create new rhythms -as the expression of new moods -- and not to copy old
rhythms, which merely echo old moods. We do not insist upon "free-verse" as the
only method of writing poetry. We fight for it as for a principle of liberty. We
believe that the individuality of a poet may often be better expressed in
free-verse than in conventional forms. In poetry a new cadence means a new idea.
3. To allow absolute freedom in the choice of subject. It is not good art to
write badly of aeroplanes and automobiles, nor is it necessarily bad art to
write well about the past. We believe passionately in the artistic value of
modem life, but we wish to point out that there is nothing so uninspiring nor so
old-fashioned as an aeroplane of the year 19 11.
4. To present an image (hence the name: "Imagist"). We are not a school of
painters, but we believe that poetry should render particulars exactly and not
deal in vague generalities, however magnificent and sonorous. It is for this
reason that we oppose the cosmic poet, who seems to us to shirk the real
difficulties of his art.
5. To produce poetry that is hard and clear, never blurred nor indefinite.
6. Finally, most of us believe that concentration is of the very essence of
poetry.
There is nothing new under the sun, even the word, "renaissance," means a
re-birth not a new birth, and of this the Imagists were well aware. This short
creed was preceded by the following paragraph:
These principles are not new; they have fallen into desuetude. They are the
essentials of all great poetry, indeed of all great literature."
Of particular interest to me is her clarification on "to employ always the exact
word."
"The exact word has been much misunderstood. it means the exact word which
conveys the writer's impression to the reader. Critics conceive a thing to be so
and so and no other way. To the poet, the thing is as it appears in relation to
the whole. For instance, he might say:
Great heaps of shiny glass
Pricked out of the stubble
By a full, high moon.
This does not mean that the stones are really of glass, but that they so appear
in the bright moonlight. It is the exact word to describe the effect. In short,
the exactness is determined by the content."
What is important to me in her clarification is the removal of the notion that
the critic might have the exact word, like there's a wrong or right word out
there. Instead, content dictates it, and that begins with the experience of the
writer.
Ha! This reading is supposed to lead me to my own imagist free verse poem! How
intimidating!
What I want is Pound's determination and patience, his dedication to what moved
him, his belief that it was important enough to seek the exact words and his
trust that those words would resonate somewhere with someone.
Karla
Karla
wrote:
>On Feb 27, 1:16 am, Karla <karl...@NEVERcomcast.net> wrote:
>> On Wed, 25 Feb 2009 23:40:54 -0800 (PST), George Dance <georgedanc...@yahoo.ca>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> >On Feb 25, 10:24 pm, Karla <karl...@NEVERcomcast.net> wrote:
>>
>> >snip
>> >http://groups.google.ca/group/alt.arts.poetry.comments/msg/4abb81f613...
>>
>> >> Challenge:
>>
>> >> Write an imagist free verse poem. Try to write a new poem before turning to your
>> >> own archives.
>>
>> >Around the fire
>> >scent of burning leaves,
>>
>> >Crickets make music
>> >for the circling dark –
>>
>> >Sudden water-sound,
>> >then crickets again.
>>
>> How is this imagist free verse? There's a reach for haiku in it.
>>
>
>
>??? Haiku is imagist verse; "the
>turning of a single impression into a perfectly polished verbal
>expression".
What, then, should be called to mind by your lines? I read three observations,
no condensation. The three parts do not produce a whole for me, except in a
sentimental way. The writer's heavy hand is seen in each of the three stanzas,
the words die on the page.
Haiku influenced imagist free verse, which is not to say that it is the same
thing. One, however, could do far worse than to write a good haiku.
>And I'd call the above 'free verse' because it's not a haiku or
>anything else; it's an open form.
I'm not illuminated; no door opens for me.
<trickery snipped>
Karla
ggamble
On 28-Feb-2009, FarStar <ecowb...@gmailREMOVEME.com> wrote:
> Why did you want to set up a dichotomy, that just divides
> the ideas? If you set a duality however, that contrasts
> and allows progression of both ideas no matter which
> idea your speaking on at any given time because they
> constantly contrast, being entangled.
> A dichotomy is just a seed for something else I suppose
> but it itself doesn't grow, but gives rise to something else
> that will grow, through alloying the ideas, as they aren't
> necessarily contrasting or related in anyway;
> these necessitate a division, setting up contrast, and resolution
> of their differences, subsequent resolution exposition
> Whereas, dualities bypass directly to resolution and subsequent
> resolution exposition for whatever topic you've set up in the metaphor
Apparently, George W. Bush is now posting to usenet.
George Dance
> On Fri, 27 Feb 2009 09:24:56 -0800 (PST), George Dance <georgedanc...@yahoo.ca>
What the fuck? And just where am I supposed to have "tried to pass
this off as" mine?
> >> Thanks,
>
> >> Karla
George Dance
> On 25-Feb-2009, George Dance <georgedanc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
> > Around the fire
> > scent of burning leaves,
>
> > Crickets make music
> > for the circling dark –
>
> > Sudden water-sound,
> > then crickets again.
>
> Did Leonard Cohen write this one too?
If you'd have read some Leonard Cohen, you'd know. Since you don't,
what did you think of it?
Karla
wrote:
>On Feb 28, 3:17 pm, Karla <karl...@NEVERcomcast.net> wrote:
Okay, George, this is one of those moments to make or break you.
There was no attribution. It followed similar lines that you wrote (you wrote
the original three stanzas too, right?). Show your initial post in this thread,
and the one in question, to most anyone and they'd come to my conclusion.
So own up to trying to trick us. Stop playing dumb.
Karla
Karla
wrote:
>On Feb 28, 11:09 am, "ggamble" <g...@youbet.net> wrote:
Stop it! Just admit it wasn't smart omitting that Cohen had written this.
Otherwise you're inviting a ton of posts forevermore. Or do you want negative
attention like that? Please admit and stop this nonsense.
Karla
George Dance
> In rec.arts.poems on Thu, 26 Feb 2009 07:35:29 -0800 (PST), George
>
> Dance <georgedanc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> > a poet is killfiling
> > an uppity mud-person. He has thoughts
> > tears the body open, grabs
> > of pulsing guts
> > scarfs it down, topped with a
> > like a grape.
> > Not filling at all,
> > full of yummy marrow.
>
Of course not; that's not even a poem, just different lines of mine
you've strung together.
> It's certainly not your worst
> effort.
>
Perhaps not.
> Y'know, George, all you have to do is to admit that the poems you've
> posted here aren't very good, and immediately you'll be swamped with
> helpful suggestions about how to make them better.
Sounds like AA.
> It's your unfounded
> high opinion of your current skills that makes you laughable.
>
You may be confusing me with someone else, Peter. I don't go around
calling my own poetry charming; or telling those I crit they should be
flattered to hear from me; or telling anyone they should be glad-ass
happy I'm writing at all. And I'm certainly not the one insisting my
contribution to Karla's challenge is making anyone jealous. I suspect
you're thinking of one of those people.
George Dance
> On Sat, 28 Feb 2009 16:21:08 -0800 (PST), George Dance <georgedanc...@yahoo.ca>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> >On Feb 28, 3:17 pm, Karla <karl...@NEVERcomcast.net> wrote:
> >> wrote:
>
> >> >On Feb 27, 1:16 am, Karla <karl...@NEVERcomcast.net> wrote:
> >> >> wrote:
>
> >> >> >On Feb 25, 10:24 pm, Karla <karl...@NEVERcomcast.net> wrote:
>
> >> >> >snip
> >> >> >http://groups.google.ca/group/alt.arts.poetry.comments/msg/4abb81f613...
>
> >> >> >> Challenge:
>
> >> >> >> Write an imagist free verse poem. Try to write a new poem before turning to your
> >> >> >> own archives.
>
> >> >> >scent of burning leaves,
>
> >> >> >Crickets make music
> >> >> >for the circling dark –
>
> >> >> >Sudden water-sound,
> >> >> >then crickets again.
>
>
> >> >??? Haiku is imagist verse; "the
> >> >turning of a single impression into a perfectly polished verbal
> >> >expression".
>
> >> >And I'd call the above 'free verse' because it's not a haiku or
> >> >anything else; it's an open form.
>
> >> >> Consider slashing "around the fire", "making music", "circling", "sudden",
> >> >> "-sound" and "again". I'm not joking. So few words as it is, not enough of an
> >> >> observation. Play around with the sounds and scene so common that we don't need
> >> >> any of your directional words.
>
> >> >Hmmm ... What do you think of this?
>
> >> >-
>
> >> >Silence
>
> >> >and a deeper silence
>
> >> >when the crickets
>
> >> >hesitate
>
> >> What's up with trying to pass this off as yours?
>
> >What the fuck? And just where am I supposed to have "tried to pass
> >this off as" mine?
>
> Okay, George, this is one of those moments to make or break you.
>
> There was no attribution.
Yes, there was no attribution. Cohen's "Summer Haiku" is a famous poem
that everyone on the group has read, or should have read. Poems that
everyone should recognize have been posted here without attribution
before; you know that.
> It followed similar lines that you wrote
The lines aren't "similar" at all. The only "similarity" is that they
both mention crickets.
> (you wrote
> the original three stanzas too, right?).
Yes, of course.
> Show your initial post in this thread,
> and the one in question, to most anyone and they'd come to my conclusion.
I don't believe that "most anyone" who recognized Cohen's poem would
come to the conclusion that I was plagiarizing it.
> So own up to trying to trick us. Stop playing dumb.
>
"Tricking" someone who hasn't read Cohen is one thing. Plagiarizing
his work is quite another; and it's the latter that you were accusing
me of.
> Karla
ggamble
On 28-Feb-2009, George Dance <george...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> > > a poet is killfiling
> > > an uppity mud-person. He has thoughts
> > > tears the body open, grabs
> > > of pulsing guts
> > > scarfs it down, topped with a
> > > like a grape.
> > > Not filling at all,
> > > full of yummy marrow.
> >
> > Was this meant to be an Imagist poem?
>
>
> Of course not; that's not even a poem, just different lines of mine
> you've strung together.
Are you sure Leonard Cohen didn't write those lines?
ggamble
"Tricking" someone who hasn't read Cohen is one thing. Plagiarizing
his work is quite another; and it's the latter that you were accusing
me of.
You sound really desperate when you squirm like this.
I'll bet you're really wishing you didn't try to pass off Cohen's work as
your own now.
What a silly thing to do.
Now, you're george the lying, green-eyed, plagiarizing troll.
It has a certain ring to it, you must admit.
George Dance
I am. I'm sorry to hear you still aren't. You could try reading him,
you know.
-----------------------------
"Hey, why don't you post another *poem*, I haven't had a really good
fit of laughter yet today."
- ggamble's critique of "Summer Haiku" by Leonard Cohen
msifg
"George Dance" <george...@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:a3b72ffc-4b85-4173...@w34g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
-----------------------------
http://www.leonardcohenfiles.com/poem.html#summerhaiku
of course, he will deny he knows gary.
i like those thread replies allot:
"this gary guy; just who do you think he is, me?
now, go google it, boy!"
haha-
what a dickwad!
ggamble
On 28-Feb-2009, George Dance <george...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> > Did Leonard Cohen write this one too?
>
>
> If you'd have read some Leonard Cohen, you'd know. Since you don't,
> what did you think of it?
I think that I'm not aware of every single thing that Leonard Cohen wrote,
so there's a chance that he actually did write it and you're just attempting
to pass it off as your own work, like you tried to do earlier.
So, who wrote it? Are you claiming that you wrote it?
ggamble
On 28-Feb-2009, George Dance <george...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> > > Of course not; that's not even a poem, just different lines of mine
> > > you've strung together.
> >
> > Are you sure Leonard Cohen didn't write those lines?
>
> I am. I'm sorry to hear you still aren't. You could try reading him,
> you know.
Do you have any proof that you wrote those lines, or are we expected to take
you at your word?
Best of Hammy Hog
> On 28-Feb-2009, George Dance <georgedanc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
> > > Did Leonard Cohen write this one too?
>
> > If you'd have read some Leonard Cohen, you'd know. Since you don't,
> > what did you think of it?
>
> I think that I'm not aware of every single thing that Leonard Cohen wrote
That wasn't the question, troll.
,
> so there's a chance that he actually did write it and you're just attempting
> to pass it off as your own work, like you tried to do earlier.
>
Oh? Show where I attempted to pass anyone's work off as mine, or be
shown to be bullshitting again, troll.
ggamble
On 28-Feb-2009, Best of Hammy Hog <bestof....@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> Oh? Show where I attempted to pass anyone's work off as mine, or be
> shown to be bullshitting again, troll.
Why the name change, troll?
Are we supposed to all realize that you're the george dance character?
Are you going to be Hammy Hog now that you've tried to pass off someone
else's work as your own?
I think you're running scared.
George Dance
> On Sat, 28 Feb 2009 16:24:12 -0800 (PST), George Dance <georgedanc...@yahoo.ca>
> wrote:
>
> >On Feb 28, 11:09 am, "ggamble" <g...@youbet.net> wrote:
> >> On 25-Feb-2009, George Dance <georgedanc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
> >> > Around the fire
> >> > scent of burning leaves,
>
> >> > Crickets make music
> >> > for the circling dark –
>
> >> > Sudden water-sound,
> >> > then crickets again.
>
> >> Did Leonard Cohen write this one too?
>
> >If you'd have read some Leonard Cohen, you'd know. Since you don't,
> >what did you think of it?
>
> Stop it! Just admit it wasn't smart omitting that Cohen had written this.
> Otherwise you're inviting a ton of posts forevermore. Or do you want negative
> attention like that?
Trolls have been calling me a plagiarist (and a lot worse things) on
RAP and AAPC for years. That's what trolls do; it doesn't depend on
what I want or not.
The fact is, it's been done before, and done before as "trickery." It
wasn't called "plagiarism" then, and there's no reason (unless one's a
troll with the above agenda) to call it that now.
Karla
wrote:
>On Feb 28, 7:36 pm, Karla <karl...@NEVERcomcast.net> wrote:
And there wasn't because you were hoping to trick those unfamiliar with Mr.
Cohen's poem into thinking it was yours. Your exact wording up above: "Hmmm ...
What do you think of this?" followed by the poem. The "hmmm" and the question
deliberately vague. Bad boy!
>Cohen's "Summer Haiku" is a famous poem
>that everyone on the group has read, or should have read. Poems that
>everyone should recognize have been posted here without attribution
>before; you know that.
>
>
>> It followed similar lines that you wrote
>
>The lines aren't "similar" at all. The only "similarity" is that they
>both mention crickets.
There's also a suggestion of silence in yours as well: "Sudden water-sound, /
then crickets again."
You're really pissing me off.
>> (you wrote
>> the original three stanzas too, right?).
>
>Yes, of course.
Are you sure? You usually put your name. In the case of the original three
stanzas and the Cohen poem, there is no attribution.
Do you really want to keep this up? Admit your bad behavior.
>> Show your initial post in this thread,
>> and the one in question, to most anyone and they'd come to my conclusion.
>
>
>I don't believe that "most anyone" who recognized Cohen's poem would
>come to the conclusion that I was plagiarizing it.
What kind of reasoning is that??? The problem is not with those who'd recognize
it as Cohen's poem. Surely you know this. Stop wasting time trying to trick us
and work on your poor poem.
>> So own up to trying to trick us. Stop playing dumb.
>>
>
>
>"Tricking" someone who hasn't read Cohen is one thing. Plagiarizing
>his work is quite another; and it's the latter that you were accusing
>me of.
Saying you were trying to trick us is giving you a break. You were being
childish in the face of my criticism. You thought you could trick me or someone
else into a (negative?) critique of Cohen's poem. The fallacy of that is no one
dislikes your poems because you wrote them. Simply slapping Cohen on like a mask
doesn't flip a switch. Plenty of people here dislike or our indifferent to the
writers posting here but give a nod to the well-written poem, critique, chat
about poetry. Swallow that pill, George. Get over yourself.
Karla
>
>
>> Karla
ggamble
On 28-Feb-2009, George Dance <george...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> Trolls have been calling me a plagiarist (and a lot worse things) on
> RAP and AAPC for years. That's what trolls do; it doesn't depend on
> what I want or not.
1) For *years*? What aliases have you posted under? Who were you before?
2) It's interesting, we may now have the george dance (or whoever he's
pretending to be at the moment) official definition of a troll.
According to george dance, a troll is someone who correctly identifies a
plagiarist as a plagiarist.
So, boys and girls, if someone stupidly attempts to pass off a famous
writer's work as his own in the time-honoured, adolescent *gotcha* gambit,
don't anyone say anything about it, because george, (or whoever he's
pretending to be at the moment) will call you a troll.
Curiously, george calls everyone he doesn't like a troll anyway, so does it
really mean anything in the final analysis?
Manwolf
> ggamble wrote:
>> A muffled plonk-
>>
>> a mere chit
>>
>> of bloodsmudged down
>>
>> waving on the doublepane
>>
>> half a handful
>>
>> still warm
>>
>> glazed eye
>>
>> so light with his little
>>
>> brittle hollow bones.
>
>
> Hi Gary,
>
> Quibbling:
>
> 'plonk' is too heavy a word for what
> I think I'd hear in reality.
>
> 'mere' is probably the first word that
> comes to mind as a qualifier for 'chit'
> which may make it a cliché. And PJR's
> already pointed out the 'glazed eye'.
>
> I find three consecutive adjectives at
> the end far too much, and the density
> of the sounds there, though impressive,
> detracts from the idea of lightness.
>
>
> All those niggles, though, are minor
> when put in the balance against:
> " chit
> of bloodsmudged down
> waving on the doublepane"
>
> - the image works, sounds good, is clear
> and evocative.
>
> Thanks for posting.
>
> g.
WTF? You have to be joking here.
ggamble
On 28-Feb-2009, Manwolf <manwolf.de...@gmail.com> wrote:
> WTF? You have to be joking here.
Get back in your cave, the adults are talking here.
j.k. harvey
"msifg" <gm...@cx.nt> wrote in message
news:Sqcql.15899$l71....@newsfe23.iad...
>
> "ggamble" <g...@youbet.net> wrote in message
> news:nbudnVAAuqlszDTU...@giganews.com...
>>
>> On 28-Feb-2009, "msifg" <gm...@cx.nt> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> pretty please
>>
>>
>> How old are you, really?
>>
>> Are you currently under the care of a qualified medical practitioner?
>>
>> Are you jkharvey's sockpuppet?
>>
>>
>> 3 down, 17 to go.
>
> well, you're in luck.
>
> jkharvey thinks i'm an illiterate moron.
>
> wait a minute-
> that means you and jkharvey have something in
> common. and now that you've posted a poem after
> ten years of tugging around a dead dog,
> you have two things in common.
>
> i sense a pact in the works.
There is no pact with gamble and I. He drinks piss for breakfast,
and shit's his dinner. He's a fucking fool and for him to bring me into
this is another reason why he can't post poems. When he lost his balls
so did his lover.
Dale Houstman
>
>
> There is no pact with gamble and I. He drinks piss for breakfast,
> and shit's his dinner. He's a fucking fool and for him to bring me into
> this is another reason why he can't post poems. When he lost his balls
> so did his lover.
>
>
I've heard better (and more elegant) insults from grade school children
who are in a hurry to get to the vending machines. How do yahoos like
you live with the knowledge that you simply do not measure up to the
others in the world? Is your unwarranted and excessively crude language
simply the nervous anxious/distracting response of a moron who has
finally realized that they are inferior, lack the language skills of the
dumbest student at a very stupid school, and who must scream loud and
with as much ugliness as possible to cover up (ineffectively) their
almost total lack of cognitive grace?
That's my guess...
dmh
j.k. harvey
"Dale Houstman" <dm...@skypoint.com> wrote in message
news:VcGdnfh6Uv-GiDfU...@skypoint.com...
I'm not sure (Dale), who the fuck are you anyway? Most importantly, who
invited you for your crush on gambles cock or this reply? How long did it
take for you to come up with that response? Kiss your mom then tuck in.
Karla
>On Feb 27, 1:49 am, Karla <karl...@NEVERcomcast.net> wrote:
>> On Thu, 26 Feb 2009 03:59:23 -0800 (PST), poetic_i...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> >On Feb 25, 10:24 pm, Karla <karl...@NEVERcomcast.net> wrote:
>
>[...]
>
>
>> >> Challenge:
>>
>> >> Write an imagist free verse poem. Try to write a new poem before turning to your
>> >> own archives.
>>
>> >> If you're unable to write a poem for the challenge, please read and criticque
>> >> the poems that hopefully will be posted.
>>
>> >> Thanks,
>>
>> >> Karla
>>
>> >It's not a challenge until you write one, Karla.
>>
>> Really? Is that in the Book of Hoyle or something?
>>
>> I plan on writing one. I'm thinking about it.
>>
>> Will you write one too?
>>
>> Karla
>
>I'm searching for it. In the moment a bit of an Art Deco phase of
>failure strikes me after a disappointing experience with glass. The
>intended sunburst envisioned using triangles eluded skill and settled
>for cubist forms of silly squares and rectangles. Colorful grids
>within which firing should reveal a 'random' gift or go bust if the
>air won't squeeze itself from the framework of the design.
Sometimes I wish I worked with glass, pottery, paint, an x to put my hands on,
nose in.
On the top of Montgomery in San Francisco, there's a cool Art Deco building
which was used in Dark Passages, a Bogart/Bacall film noir.
http://parisparfait.typepad.com/paris_parfait/2008/06/film-noir-in-th.html
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_9NrkRsGw9iQ/R_GWi4iLRnI/AAAAAAAAAfI/sDaOImmpovc/IMG_3457.JPG
I can't find a night view of it this cool elevator which you can see from the
street:
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/124/420461188_3a157370f0.jpg?v=0
>That's usually where I'm at in writing. I hope you post one. I should
>like to see how you as my muse further affect me.
You honor me. I have a draft or three. One of them I like better than the other
two but there are parts of the other two that click too. They refuse to be
assimilated!
Good luck on your firing. Would you consider sending me a picture of it? One
inspiration deserves another!
Thanks,
Karla
ggamble
On 28-Feb-2009, "j.k. harvey" <loth...@kc.rr.com> wrote:
> He's a fucking fool and for him to bring me into
> this is another reason why he can't post poems.
As with most of your constructions, this makes no sense.
But, I did bring you into it because his level of stunned incoherence is on
par with yours, as you've just so aptly demonstrated.
Now, go contemplate slitting your wrists for the rest of the night.
j.k. harvey
I'm sorry your son hates you gamble. Maybe he should slit his wrists for
what you have done to him. Cheers.