"What the Flag Means" - A Tribute to American Heroes (Song Lyrics)
Mark
Rob and John were brothers in war.
They charged the beach at Normandy.
Robert fell at Omaha
And Johnny died near Isigny.
You'll find their graves on that faraway shore
They fought to save from tyranny.
And every dawn at reveille
Their banner's raised in victory.
See what freedom costs in each marble cross
And what the flag means to the free.
Henry came from a small river town.
He left his home for Vietnam.
Drawn to the flag of a high ideal,
He fought the war nobody won.
One day he forded a wild jungle stream
And there a sniper shot him down
And his lifeblood joined that sacred will
Our fathers forged on Bunker Hill.
Read it in the names on these granite walls:
What the flag means when you're called.
Michael ran like the wind on the tide.
He knew the race went to the bold.
He gained more speed with every stride
Until his shoes turned into gold.
And when he watched on that gold medal day
Old Glory rise, the Anthem play,
The tears came streaming down his face
When he felt that force beyond the grave.
Every freeman's life sings their sacrifice-
What the flag means to the brave.
Patrick Brown was a Queens fireman.
He captained ladder number three.
He knew the look of the frightened face
That sought the light of liberty.
That day his crew climbed the North Tower stairs
And all our hopes came crashing down,
There he saw that shining face
He'd spent his whole life trying to save.
You know your job is done when your rescue comes
And your life shines like the sun.
Tonight a storm veils a poor widowed world.
Her lonely tears just fall like rain.
A young man wakes from a troubled dream
And hears a hero call his name.
And as he makes that fateful vow
He knows his life is not his own.
And a new hope lights the starry sea
High above the Land of Liberty.
See the million flights of the Stars and Stripes-
What the flag means to the free.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Copyright 2002 Mark Heffron
email: clea...@execpc.com
If you'd like to hear the song itself (with my very mediocre vocals) there
is an mp3 version at http://home.earthlink.net/~markjh33 and a .wav version
at http://hotcds.com/music/flag.wav.
Art McNutt
mark...@earthlink.net wrote on 6/13/02 7:58 PM:
It's difficult to end rhyme 50 lines--perhaps this whole effort would have
been more effective had you cut it in half. Less is more, and would help us
focus on the subject of the poem. You seem to have the same problem as I do;
the words get in the way of the poetry.
The United States Flag is abstract art, similar to Piet Mondrian's art to
several decimal places. You've shown that it isn't quite as abstract as all
that, after all.
For real poetry on this subject, I'd suggest:
http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/moh1.htm
No attempt at end rhymes /there/ but /real poetry/ nevertheless. And they
include it all--even the forgotten shit holes like Somalia and Haiti
(1915)--just for those unbelievers who think it's poetry written for the
"glory."
---
Art
j r sherman
says...
it's interesting, the other day my dad was telling me that he doesn't appreciate
the fact that he got shot at by the North Koreans and Chinese just so some
"National Guard, draft dodging, dumb ass", who wasn't even elected by the
people, could tell him what it means to be an American.
please be aware, sir, that even as you post this wretched, flag-waving crap,
that the New McCarthy's in Washington are creating new ways to destroy the US
Constitution, a infinitely more important AMERICAN artifact than your scared
piece of cloth.
and if you've ever been in the military, sir, please do remember that the oath
you took said you'd promised to defend the CONSTITUTION of the United States,
not some badly designed rag that you can purchase at Wal-Mart.
they say patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel. perhaps in this case
we can also include the hideously bad poet?
j r sherman
------------------------------------------------------------------
"A sad tale's best for winter: I have one
Of sprites and goblins."
------------------------------------------------------------------
Lurker Guy
jr...@earthlink.net (Junior Sherman) twaddled:
> it's interesting, the other day my dad was telling me that he
> doesn't appreciate the fact that he got shot at by the North
> Koreans and Chinese just so some "National Guard, draft dodging,
> dumb ass", who wasn't even elected by the people, could tell him
> what it means to be an American.
Your old man sounds like a real intellect, there, Junior.
Talks like an unreconstructed Frankie Roosevelt all-brawn-
no-brains union knuckle-dragger.
'Course, having a 40-year-old son who's a telemarketer by
day and an habitue of the Frisco baths by night has gotta
be a bitter pill for him to swallow.
But then, that's karma, d00d. He went around, and you
CAME around.
Can't protect people from their own stupidity.
-----= Posted via Newsfeed.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeed.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
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Alan (Ursus Major)
"j r sherman" <jr...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:aebog...@drn.newsguy.com...
case
Scoundrels may resort to patriotism, Mr. Sherman. That does not make all
patriots scoundrels, nor all patriotism a scoundrel's act.
Pride in this nation, including it's symbols, is not something at which to
sneer. You may not feel this pride yourself (having a 'Scott'ishly dead
soul ), but why do you find it necessary to ridicule others who show it?
Patriotism is much like religion. You either believe or you don't believe.
Do you ridicule your neighbor for being a Jew, or Catholic?
Shame, Mr. Sherman.
Alan Walkington
j r sherman
>
>
>"j r sherman" <jr...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>news:aebog...@drn.newsguy.com...
>> In article <ddbO8.1512$Uz5.1...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
>"Mark"
>>
>> they say patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel. perhaps in this
>case
>
>Scoundrels may resort to patriotism, Mr. Sherman. That does not make all
>patriots scoundrels, nor all patriotism a scoundrel's act.
always check the fine print, alan. always make sure you check the clown who's
waving the flag the hardest. but more importantly, this is a really lousy poem.
>Pride in this nation, including it's symbols, is not something at which to
>sneer.
pride in one's nation is fine.
the exclusion of sanity and reality in that pride leads to Auschwitz.
i love my country, alan. i hate seeing what a bunch of flag-waving, psychopaths
are doing to the country that i love JUST as much as anyone else.
>You may not feel this pride yourself (having a 'Scott'ishly dead
>soul ), but why do you find it necessary to ridicule others who show it?
not at all. i just don't measure the pride i have for my country in the manner
"demanded" by you, this guy, and far too many others in this country.
hey, you want to pick your symbols, fine. worship a piece of cloth and make that
the artifact more sacred than the bones of St. Peter. me, my symbol of freedom
and justice is the US Constitution, a more powerful symbol than that badly
designed rag you and so many others demand that i worship.
>Patriotism is much like religion. You either believe or you don't believe.
indeed. i consider myself as much a patriot as you. i believe, perhaps
foolishly, in the principles that one would like to believe sets the US apart
from other nations in history. this is why when my government decides that
throwing people in jail, citizens, US citizens, innocent until proven guilty
(remember that one?)citizens, with unalienable rights citizens, the Bill of
Rights citizens, with out the due process of law, it's hard for me to swallow
some badly written tripe that even John Wayne would be embarrassed to recite.
even with all my cynicism, i still believe in my country. i believe in it's
laws, not it's vague symbols, and not it's shallow and trite patriotism.
>Do you ridicule your neighbor for being a Jew, or Catholic?
if my neighbor, regardless of his religion or ethnic class, believed that
locking up US citizens without the due process of law was patriotic, i could
easily ridicule that person to the ends of the earth.
>Shame, Mr. Sherman.
shame to you, sir, if you would support, without question, this un-elected
regime that every day is coming up with new ways to destroy our civil rights.
it's interesting, i think it was back in November when David Bolduc was talking
about how the un-elected administration is slowly eliminating, piece by piece,
the rights of ordinary citizens. at the time i think i said something to him
about "not over reacting, let's see what happens, give it time," etc, etc.
how right he was/is.
first it was locking up non-citizens with out the due process of law. now we're
locking up citizens without the due process of law.
how long before they start locking up David or i, or anyone else, for
disagreeing with the tactics of this government? "it's wartime! it's a crisis!
you have no right to weaken our war on terrorism with your opinions!"
it's not like we haven't heard this crap before, right?
patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel. but don't worry, alan! you can
always paint the passover blood over your door in red, white and blue. they'll
never come for you, right?
goddess
> In article <n1mO8.1007778$Ka4.1...@news.easynews.com>, "Alan says...
> >
> >
> >"j r sherman" <jr...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> >news:aebog...@drn.newsguy.com...
> >> In article <ddbO8.1512$Uz5.1...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
> >"Mark"
> >>
> >> they say patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel. perhaps in
this
> >case
> >
> >Scoundrels may resort to patriotism, Mr. Sherman. That does not make all
> >patriots scoundrels, nor all patriotism a scoundrel's act.
>
> always check the fine print, alan. always make sure you check the clown
who's
> waving the flag the hardest. but more importantly, this is a really lousy
poem.
Yes, it is.
> >Pride in this nation, including it's symbols, is not something at which
to
> >sneer.
>
> pride in one's nation is fine.
Yes, it is indeed. Especially if one has reason for pride.
> the exclusion of sanity and reality in that pride leads to Auschwitz.
Yes, it does indeed. Blind, mindless patriotism is a scourge.
> i love my country, alan. i hate seeing what a bunch of flag-waving,
psychopaths
> are doing to the country that i love JUST as much as anyone else.
I have come to love this, my adopted country. I've been here almost all of
my adult life.
> >You may not feel this pride yourself (having a 'Scott'ishly dead
> >soul ), but why do you find it necessary to ridicule others who show it?
>
> not at all. i just don't measure the pride i have for my country in the
manner
> "demanded" by you, this guy, and far too many others in this country.
Nor do I.
> hey, you want to pick your symbols, fine. worship a piece of cloth and
make that
> the artifact more sacred than the bones of St. Peter. me, my symbol of
freedom
> and justice is the US Constitution, a more powerful symbol than that badly
> designed rag you and so many others demand that i worship.
Agreed. Most heartedly agreed!!!
> >Patriotism is much like religion. You either believe or you don't
believe.
>
> indeed. i consider myself as much a patriot as you. i believe, perhaps
> foolishly, in the principles that one would like to believe sets the US
apart
> from other nations in history. this is why when my government decides that
> throwing people in jail, citizens, US citizens, innocent until proven
guilty
> (remember that one?)citizens, with unalienable rights citizens, the Bill
of
> Rights citizens, with out the due process of law, it's hard for me to
swallow
> some badly written tripe that even John Wayne would be embarrassed to
recite.
Say it!!!!
> even with all my cynicism, i still believe in my country. i believe in
it's
> laws, not it's vague symbols, and not it's shallow and trite patriotism.
As do I, or I would have left long ago.
> >Do you ridicule your neighbor for being a Jew, or Catholic?
>
> if my neighbor, regardless of his religion or ethnic class, believed that
> locking up US citizens without the due process of law was patriotic, i
could
> easily ridicule that person to the ends of the earth.
As would I.
> >Shame, Mr. Sherman.
>
> shame to you, sir, if you would support, without question, this un-elected
> regime that every day is coming up with new ways to destroy our civil
rights.
They are indeed doing that and with the approval of some/many it would seem.
Take away individual rights? Of course, why not if it makes us safer they
say. I say NO.
> it's interesting, i think it was back in November when David Bolduc was
talking
> about how the un-elected administration is slowly eliminating, piece by
piece,
> the rights of ordinary citizens. at the time i think i said something to
him
> about "not over reacting, let's see what happens, give it time," etc, etc.
>
> how right he was/is.
Yes, he was/is. I'm afraid, very afraid of what is happening here.
> first it was locking up non-citizens with out the due process of law. now
we're
> locking up citizens without the due process of law.
>
> how long before they start locking up David or i, or anyone else, for
> disagreeing with the tactics of this government? "it's wartime! it's a
crisis!
> you have no right to weaken our war on terrorism with your opinions!"
Hopefully, it won't come to that, but it could. It's in the wind. I've
heard people say that they don't mind giving up their *FREEDOMS* in order to
feel safe. What's up with that? What ever happened to give me Liberty or
give me death?
> it's not like we haven't heard this crap before, right?
>
> patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel. but don't worry, alan! you
can
> always paint the passover blood over your door in red, white and blue.
they'll
> never come for you, right?
Yeah, it's always the *other* guy they come for. Uhuh.
Gram
Alan (Ursus Major)
In order to make a fine speech, with which I mostly agree, you have twisted
the point I tried to make.
This started with a really bad poem. You exorcised the author for 'waving
the flag'. He gave no indication of scoundrelism, just poor authorship.
Attack him for that, not for being patriotic.
So I repeat. Because you disagree with the current policies of our
psuedo-government, you take every opportunity to jump down the throat of
people who show respect for the symbols of the country. You are confusing
government with nation.
Recognise the difference between the 'government' and the 'country'. Every
two years we get the opportunity to make significant changes in the
'government'. The country is the canvas on which an ever-changing picture
is continuously being painted.
You seem to equate the old-fashioned respect for the symbols of the country
with some sort of fawning approval of government policies. You will never
understand why flag-burning turned the stomachs of so many Korean War and
WWII survivors. To them, the act did not indicate disrespect for the Nixon
or Johnson 'governments'. It indicated disrespect for the nation itself, for
the principles they had fought for.
The same disrespect you offer when you attack people for making patriotic
displays.
I do not recall offering excuses for any excesses committed by this
government, in this thread of any other.
Alan Walkington
j r sherman
>
>Mr. Sherman,
>
>In order to make a fine speech, with which I mostly agree, you have twisted
>the point I tried to make.
>This started with a really bad poem. You exorcised the author for 'waving
>the flag'. He gave no indication of scoundrelism, just poor authorship.
>Attack him for that, not for being patriotic.
as i said, alan, look at the fine print. i will bet you my next seven pay checks
that the individual who wrote these "lyrics" would not tolerate a dissenting or
contrary point of view.
anyone who would write this blantant flag waving crap would consider any other
view that doesn't follow his to be anti-patriotic, i assure you.
>So I repeat. Because you disagree with the current policies of our
>psuedo-government, you take every opportunity to jump down the throat of
>people who show respect for the symbols of the country. You are confusing
>government with nation.
especially when the ultimate scoundrels, the New McCathy's of our non-elected
administration, are using that same sincere patriotism to keep hold of their
ill-gotten gains.
>Recognise the difference between the 'government' and the 'country'. Every
>two years we get the opportunity to make significant changes in the
>'government'. The country is the canvas on which an ever-changing picture
>is continuously being painted.
indeed. this is the United States, where the guy who gets the most votes gets to
be elected.
well, sort of.
>You seem to equate the old-fashioned respect for the symbols of the country
>with some sort of fawning approval of government policies. You will never
>understand why flag-burning turned the stomachs of so many Korean War and
>WWII survivors.
and i'll never understand how anyone can support an administration that is
shredding the Constitution even as we read this message.
>To them, the act did not indicate disrespect for the Nixon
>or Johnson 'governments'. It indicated disrespect for the nation itself, for
>the principles they had fought for.
well, better a piece of cloth than the law. we can always get more cloth. we
only have one law.
as i've said before, i do not believe in symbols. they are false and fake and
temporary. whether it be a cross, a star or a flag, symbol worship is tantamount
to sun worship, and i would like think humans are past that.
>The same disrespect you offer when you attack people for making patriotic
>displays.
we are free, for now, until John Ashcroft decides that Usenet is a tool for
terrorism, to state our opinions here. you and everyone else have the same right
to comment on anything i post. i didn't like the poem, and i especially didn't
like the sentiment behind it.
if someone is going to attack my intelligence, as with these lyrics, and their
sentiments, i feel i have the right to attack their absurdity.
it's called the freedom of speech. we have it for the moment.
>I do not recall offering excuses for any excesses committed by this
>government, in this thread of any other.
i never said you did.
Dennis M. Hammes
"flag.wav" is right.
That Towering Feeling
America, I cannot sing of this.
A hundred stories of the burgered dead:
Ten million buy a f..ing flag to kiss,
While twenty sing of their Eternal Bliss
And sleep before the screen before the bed.
America, I cannot sing of this.
It's soldiers, curse their leaders' genesis,
But see lines form among the overfed:
Ten million buy a f..ing flag to kiss
Who screeched that chad was all that was amiss
To vote to send their neighbors' sons instead.
America, I cannot sing of this;
No terror grows of parthogenesis;
The meat's born mindless as a bit of lead.
Ten million buy a f..ing flag to kiss,
Assemble slogans out of babypiss,
And tell the Hen to bake the dammit bread;
America, I cannot sing of this:
Ten million /buy/ a "f..ing flag" to kiss.
..9/23/01
--
------(m+
~/:o)_|
You can call your king anything you want,
except /my/ king.
http://scrawlmark.net
Dennis M. Hammes
>
> "j r sherman" <jr...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:aed31...@drn.newsguy.com...
> > first it was locking up non-citizens with out the due process of law. now
> we're
> > locking up citizens without the due process of law.
> >
> > how long before they start locking up David or i, or anyone else, for
> > disagreeing with the tactics of this government? "it's wartime! it's a
> crisis!
> > you have no right to weaken our war on terrorism with your opinions!"
>
> Hopefully, it won't come to that, but it could. It's in the wind. I've
> heard people say that they don't mind giving up their *FREEDOMS* in order to
> feel safe. What's up with that? What ever happened to give me Liberty or
> give me death?
>
Mr. Henry's statement, "Give me Liberty or give me death," was the
statement of a British subject. The correct /American/
pronunciation is as follows:
"Get off my Liberty or I'll give you death."
(This was shortened in some circles to "Don't Tread on Me" as
being easier to sew onto a flag.)
Since this is being written and posted by a /sovereign/, if the
Chief Servant and Bottle Washer thinks he can call it "treason,"
even "sedition," let him make the most of it. I will have a
"well-regulated militia" by any means I see fit (including
"touching" little boys in Barbie-Doll Dresses hard enough to get
their attention where /I/ require it to be), or I'll have no militia
at all -- by any means I find necessary.
Indeed, I shall remind the Servants that any time they don't like
the way I talk, /it's a free country/: they are perfectly /free/ to
go look for another line of work. And if they don't like the way I
speak in my defense, or in defense of anything that has my
countenance, such as "the United States and its Constitution," they
can look for another line of work /while they can still walk/.
Being a vet, /I/ have here in /my/ hand a 13th Amendment says
nobody owns anybody around here and that can be conjugated as a
regular verb. Since the sum of zeros is zero, and even their
Mommies aren't Holy enough to anoint their unders over, their
servants don't own anybody around here, either.
Thus, I don't give a /shit/ who hired which servant.
If they work for me, conspiracy to mutiny is a summary capital
offense.
If they /don't/ work for me, they stay alive by seeing to it that
I /never have to/ pay attention to them -- or any of their yapping
-- since conspiracy to make war on the United States is a summary
capital offense.
/s/ Xp17677997, GCM, NDSM, DUC,
In Summary Court.
Alan (Ursus Major)
Who was it that said that a person willing to give up freedoms for saftey
deserved (would have?) neither?
Alan
"Dennis M. Hammes" <scraw...@arvig.net> wrote in message
news:3D0A8338...@arvig.net...
Bolduc619
suggests:
>For real poetry on this subject, I'd suggest:
>
>http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/moh1.htm
>
>No attempt at end rhymes /there/ but /real poetry/ nevertheless. And they
>include it all--even the forgotten shit holes like Somalia and Haiti
>(1915)--just for those unbelievers who think it's poetry written for the
>"glory."
>
>
>---
>Art
>
>
Odd. The voice of bureaucracy seldom makes one cry.
DB
Bolduc619
offers:
>
>it's interesting, the other day my dad was telling me that he doesn't
>appreciate
>the fact that he got shot at by the North Koreans and Chinese just so some
>"National Guard, draft dodging, dumb ass", who wasn't even elected by the
>people, could tell him what it means to be an American.
Your Da's gettin old, Dude. He left out: Coke snorting, alcoholic, womanizing,
AWOL.
DB
Bolduc619
lyricizes:
Remember how it was only a year and a half ago and the moderates were pooh
poohing the use of street thugs to cancel elections? Openly bribing the
Supremes by employing their wives and kids?
Now, when many countries are disbanding their Secret Police what is left of
Congress debates how large and well-founded ours should be!
You'd think by now Heff Ashkroft could produce a /single/ show trial! Something
for the Trial Channel. Deep in his cold little heart, you know Ashkroft
remembers losing his Senate seat to a dead man!
David B.---
Dennis M. Hammes
>
> Dennis:
>
> Who was it that said that a person willing to give up freedoms for saftey
> deserved (would have?) neither?
>
> Alan
Variously attributed, obviously widely quoted: Paine, Jefferson,
Franklin. Lessee... Put "sacrifice" for "give up," and you get
them immediately. Including a couple of poops who assert to
denigrate the equation without quite being able to spell it...
j r sherman
says...
>Remember how it was only a year and a half ago and the moderates were pooh
>poohing the use of street thugs to cancel elections? Openly bribing the
>Supremes by employing their wives and kids?
indeed. i was one of them. i could not believe those things could happen in the
US. see what idealism does for you?
>Now, when many countries are disbanding their Secret Police what is left of
>Congress debates how large and well-founded ours should be!
gotta believe, David, as they were flying those airplanes into buildings and the
ground that their ultimate hope was that THIS was what was gonna happen.
they win.
every time we hold someone in jail without the due process of law, or create
some new way to limit the rights of American citizens, we might as well fly
another jetliner filled with men, women and children, into another skyscraper.
they win.
they got what they wanted.
>You'd think by now Heff Ashkroft could produce a /single/ show trial! Something
>for the Trial Channel. Deep in his cold little heart, you know Ashkroft
>remembers losing his Senate seat to a dead man!
the line from Billy Bragg keeps coming back to me over and over again:
"as long as you're comfortable, it feels like freedom."
a commune in Canada sounds good right about now. but how long will it be before
the New McCarthy's feel that Canada is harboring terrorists and they'll need to
invade?
remember, those terrorists are everywhere.
Dennis M. Hammes
>
> >You seem to equate the old-fashioned respect for the symbols of the country
> >with some sort of fawning approval of government policies. You will never
> >understand why flag-burning turned the stomachs of so many Korean War and
> >WWII survivors.
I do. Better than they. I also understand that they are right to
be sick, and wrong to order any symbol honored at gunpoint. I make
this clear to the American Legion on occasion, they being the
primary lobby in favor of a socalled "Flag-Burning Amendment."
Tsk. If the sucker ever passes, I'm gonna hafta go to the store to
buy a flag to burn.
See -- /I/ have here in /my/ hand ..|.. the First Amendment,
which says you can call your religion anything you want -- except
/my/ religion.
>
> and i'll never understand how anyone can support an administration that is
> shredding the Constitution even as we read this message.
If that's really true, and you can get it on the record, you can
tell one hell of a joke to the survivors.
See, it isn't their Constitution, in most cases. It /is/ mine in
/all/ cases, and /they/ can't shred /my/ Constitution (only I can).
But in /any/ case, the only thing they can do re the Constitution is
assert to "abolish" the sole authority that creates and maintains
their silly little servant offices. I.e., they've picked a very
formal method of resigning their offices by abolishing them.
An even funnier (and faster) joke is that anybody who is "above
the law" is also "above" the /protection/ of the law. It's the Kate
And Edith Principle.
Moving right along, I got BILLLLIONZ of 'em. Well, not billions,
but enough. You get the drift.
What you've got there is a bunch of psychopaths like Cosmic
Halitosis and Chuckles (/why/ do you think I /study/ them, fer
chrissake? I think they're /funny/?). And because "nobody can make
them learn anything," they have Superpowers. Like, "nobody can make
them learn to keep their paws off what isn't theirs." Like, "nobody
can convince them they don't own everybody they think they've heard
of because they think they've heard of them." Like, "nobody can
convince them they don't have Equal Rights to other men's lives,
fortunes, and honors." Etc., ad nauseam.
Hell, j r, I don't /hafta/ "convince them" of anything; IT'S A
F.KING FREE COUNTRY. I (for one) keep it that way, /and they
don't/.
Hell, kids, I don't even "hafta" hand them their paws back.
Sheeeeeee, I don't even "hafta" bury them; my County Engineer was
issued a backhoe for which I plink the requisite nickels
semiannually. And their own bible seZ I'm to feed 'em to the pigs,
anyway. Saves gas. Hugs trees. (Pig doody, methane, and like
that).
>
> >To them, the act did not indicate disrespect for the Nixon
> >or Johnson 'governments'. It indicated disrespect for the nation itself, for
> >the principles they had fought for.
>
> well, better a piece of cloth than the law. we can always get more cloth. we
> only have one law.
We have as many copies of the Constitution as we have living vets.
Kinda hard to erase, even with Google. Couple dozen Black Limos
simply can't get the job done.
>
> as i've said before, i do not believe in symbols. they are false and fake and
> temporary. whether it be a cross, a star or a flag, symbol worship is tantamount
> to sun worship, and i would like think humans are past that.
Even brief observation indicates that 94% of the sample are not.
Rather, they believe that /other people's/ noises and pictures have
Holy Powers.
"Well, /he said/..."
(/Still/ the only violation of the 2nd Commandment that there
is...)
I do not believe in symbols any more than I believe in god; I
measure and use both. But to those who do not, they are nothing
more than squiggles on a screen, yea even unto the memory (Holy
because unmeasured) of a Great Face Over The Playpen. And the High
Chair is Even Holier: the food appears every time the mouth flies
open (they call it "voting"). Indeed, the Single Most Powerful
Object In Niven's Known Space appears and finds out for them what
they're too yellow to /want/, every time the mouth flies open (they
still call it "voting").
This is my "equal"? If you insist; "equal" can't /touch/ me.
This /owns/ me? "I hear and obey, O effendi."
"In a pig's ass" is the short form of the riot act, and is found
in the Old (Hebrew) and New (Greek) Testaments among other places.
It means, "keep talking the way you're talking, keep walking the way
you're walking, you're gonna take your last trip through a pig's ass
in the usual direction."
Don't ask me; don't say, "Well, /he said/"; LOOK IT UP.
But you may already note /we/ never called 'em "pigs"; they're
just too yellow to hear two words in a row. Gotta hang a Barbie
Doll Dress on a little boy and ask him for a Huggier Opinion of what
they Heard. So they can say, "Well, /he said/..."
>
...
Dennis M. Hammes
And Ted Koppel openly muses on /NightLine/ just "how much torture
would be Constitutionally /feasible/ as an aid to interrogations."
And the audience /piously/ stepped up to the mikes and discussed
/how much/. I.e., how much of whom they /owned/ because they
thought they'd heard of 'em.
You get the govt you want, kid.
>
> You'd think by now Heff Ashkroft could produce a /single/ show trial! Something
> for the Trial Channel. Deep in his cold little heart, you know Ashkroft
> remembers losing his Senate seat to a dead man!
He /did/, Dave, he /did/. He /condemned/ a statue /without trial/
for /lewd nekkidityness/, and had it /tied up in public/!!! (This
used to be called "pillory," and for the same crime.)
>
> David B.---
Dennis M. Hammes
And per the UCMJ, "wilful destruction or sabotage of government
property," to wit rendering himself unfit by chemical ingestion for
inspection and duty as a pilot officer, the offense for which he was
quietly grounded, mustered out, and listed with the Junk Reserve
(they take 'em before 4F but /after/ your grandma) /without/ ever
finishing his Service obligation /or/ voluntary oath.
Google it. "It's /in/ thaaaa..."
goddess
> In article <20020614214150...@mb-cj.aol.com>,
bold...@aol.com
> says...
>
> >Remember how it was only a year and a half ago and the moderates were
pooh
> >poohing the use of street thugs to cancel elections? Openly bribing the
> >Supremes by employing their wives and kids?
>
> indeed. i was one of them. i could not believe those things could happen
in the
> US. see what idealism does for you?
I believed it but I didn't want to.
> >Now, when many countries are disbanding their Secret Police what is left
of
> >Congress debates how large and well-founded ours should be!
>
> gotta believe, David, as they were flying those airplanes into buildings
and the
> ground that their ultimate hope was that THIS was what was gonna happen.
Yep, terrorism wins when those who are/feel threatened pull back, change
their ways, give up their freedoms.
> they win.
Yes, they do/did/have. At least for many it would seem.
> every time we hold someone in jail without the due process of law, or
create
> some new way to limit the rights of American citizens, we might as well
fly
> another jetliner filled with men, women and children, into another
skyscraper.
Yep.
> they win.
Yep.
> they got what they wanted.
Exactly.
> >You'd think by now Heff Ashkroft could produce a /single/ show trial!
Something
> >for the Trial Channel. Deep in his cold little heart, you know Ashkroft
> >remembers losing his Senate seat to a dead man!
>
> the line from Billy Bragg keeps coming back to me over and over again:
>
> "as long as you're comfortable, it feels like freedom."
>
> a commune in Canada sounds good right about now. but how long will it be
before
> the New McCarthy's feel that Canada is harboring terrorists and they'll
need to
> invade?
>\
Probably not long if O'Reilly has his way. I was watching him the other
night (and trying to NOT puke) and he was going on and on about how terrible
Canada is/was for not having more rigid Immigration rules/laws and how the
US should force Canada to have stricter rules/laws. Please, who does he
think he is?
> remember, those terrorists are everywhere.
Yes, they are indeed, always have been. It's just that now everyone is
running around yelling that the sky is falling and someone should DO
something about it. Like, maybe, force us all into a bunker where we can
all be safe. Yeah, right, that's the ticket.
Marg
Art McNutt
scraw...@arvig.net wrote on 6/15/02 5:22 AM:
[snip]
While I don't believe in the "gray areas," (because something either is or
is not--I've bought into Parmenides, I'm afraid) I do believe one (me
usually) can shine a light so brightly on a subject that there is only light
and dark and no modeling transition. Say, like the moon where it is hard to
perceive the sphere, and one only sees a flat disk. /This/ lighting
distorts. This lighting /lies/.
When you came to defend the Constitution, you were taught to salute fellow
defenders, and you came to understand the symbol and the metaphor and what
it /meant/. And you continued to do so because it was in basic agreement
with your world view; Not necessarily because it was among the list of
regulations. And among the list of regulations introduced to you, you /also/
came to salute the cloth with the abstract art woven into it. And you came
to understand the metaphor and the symbolic nature of not only the cloth but
also the act of the salute to this inanimate textile. And you came to
understand the multi-level metaphor expressed in so doing, and you continued
to do so because you came to find the act in agreement with your world view.
When I salute the flag, it /means/ what it means to me. I'm not even sure it
means the same to defenders of the constitution, nor to the guy standing
next to me. But it means what it means to /me/.
Certainly, the rush to buy flags Sept 12 was in some ways predictable. It
was, assuredly, not the act of a people prone to introspection. It was a
reaction against an attack we all saw as being an attack on /ourselves/ and
they would have grabbed a symbolic portrait of the World Trade Center as
readily as a flag. In fact many did. They might as well have displayed
likenesses of the Lusitania as Old Glory or the WTC. Now, with the replays
pretty much stopped, and the Taliban hiding in the inscrutable mountains of
Pakistan and fleeing like rats into Iran, it was just as predictable that
the flags begin to disappear and the masses have gone back to grazing in the
pastures.
However, this doesn't discount what it has always meant to /me/ to salute
the flag. More abstract, more pure, more directly expressive of /my/ world
view than saluting a living human being, or even paying lip service to my
own ideals. It means more than freedom to me. The sacred blood in the
stripes /requires/ me to salute it, as I value my own humanity--not just my
unearned birthright of citizenship.
It is a privilege. Passing a law that requires all due respect to be upheld
by all citizens to the symbol in question is as deadly an error as voting
Julius Caesar King for Life. Someone told us if we just worded the laws
correctly we could have a Utopia. Plato, wasn't it? Mindless of what a law
is, in essence, the end could justify the means because the good of the herd
transcends morality. Freddy the Stand up Philosopher was wrong when he
declared "that which is done for love occurs beyond good and evil." Passing
a law against burning or disrespecting the flag is an evil of first order.
Respect to another human or to a symbol can only come from a freely engaged
specific personal abstraction of the world.
Joe Redneck buys his flag because it is more accepted than the truer
statement which usually involves the middle finger. And while the flag /is/
a middle finger, it is not /just/ a middle finger. Saluting the flag for the
wrong reasons is as contemptible as the actions of those who would burn her.
If faced with the shit sandwich of walking by a street corner and seeing
someone, perhaps someone who expounds that it is lunacy holding the symbol
higher than fellow human beings, perhaps as Sherm has done, and someone who
burns the flag as a statement of "freedom"---one thing I know for sure:
There are no constitutional prohibitions to hinder my putting off my trip to
the grocery store in order to clean this fellow citizen's clock. I'm not
congress, after all. Sure, there are the local ordinances about disturbing
the peace and battery. Nothing constitutional, however.
If I were to publicly burn the Aids Quilt, or a poster of Martin Luther
King, Jr., or a cross or you name it, /I/ for one, would not hide behind the
Constitution while doing so. I would expect to defend my action by at least
defending my self against bodily harm. And if I were to put off my trip to
the grocery store, I would be doing so for the reality of symbol, and for
the ones who cry when they see such a demonstration (most of whom are
defenders of the constitution) and lastly for myself. Least for myself. I
can be Olaf if I'm cornered into it.
---
Art
Dennis M. Hammes
Parmenides' Flashlight merely shows me that most of my "fellow"
citizens aren't, any more than a lot of my "fellow" "soldiers" were
(/I/ had a /draft/, remember) or my "fellow" poets are. 'Sokay,
since "we" is no more a citizen than "we" fights or writes a pome.
"Fell" means "hairy," and "fellowship" thus refers to no more than
wearing the hair as a uniform, something available even to the
naked. Put Parmenides' Flashlight on /that/, and it's nothing more
than an artificial racism -- like every other uniformed Little Boys'
Club, which a military usually isn't however little boys keep trying
to turn it into one. Unlike Little Boys' Clubs, a military has an
unimpeachable bottom line, since there's only one way to vote
somebody off the island.
Anybody corners me into Olaf's Osculation (been done), I smile and
remember that the choice of time, place, and weapons for the
response are /entirely mine/, and that the best first choice is
/almost/ always "time" -- to improve the choices.
Art McNutt
scraw...@arvig.net wrote on 6/16/02 3:29 PM:
[snip]
>
> Parmenides' Flashlight merely shows me that most of my "fellow"
> citizens aren't, any more than a lot of my "fellow" "soldiers" were
> (/I/ had a /draft/, remember) or my "fellow" poets are. 'Sokay,
> since "we" is no more a citizen than "we" fights or writes a pome.
> "Fell" means "hairy," and "fellowship" thus refers to no more than
> wearing the hair as a uniform, something available even to the
> naked. Put Parmenides' Flashlight on /that/, and it's nothing more
> than an artificial racism -- like every other uniformed Little Boys'
> Club, which a military usually isn't however little boys keep trying
> to turn it into one. Unlike Little Boys' Clubs, a military has an
> unimpeachable bottom line, since there's only one way to vote
> somebody off the island.
> Anybody corners me into Olaf's Osculation (been done), I smile and
> remember that the choice of time, place, and weapons for the
> response are /entirely mine/, and that the best first choice is
> /almost/ always "time" -- to improve the choices.
Well said.
---
Art