Would you buy POD?
Joyleen E. Seymour
as to whether the general book buying public would buy POD? You would
have to special order the book, although some independent bookstores (my
local one for instance) might have a few on hand. It's a traditional
royalty paying publisher, not a vanity press. Thoughts?
Bev Vincent
"Joyleen E. Seymour" <joyleen...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:lpednRHhebunIZfW...@earthlink.com...
The biggest problem with POD books is price -- they tend to be significantly
more expensive than mass market productions. For an unknown author, this is
a handicap, in my opinion. I have a choice, as a book buyer, between
spending my money on a $9 paperback or a $20 paperback.
Your second issue, as you identified, is availability. You're going to need
to make people aware of the book, since they aren't going to stumble across
it in a store. That's a much bigger task than you might imagine.
Finally, though they are "royalty paying," are they offering you an advance?
If not, then they have very little incentive to market your book, as they
have no investment to recoup.
--
Bev Vincent
www.BevVincent.com
Cece
> "Joyleen E. Seymour" <joyleenseym...@earthlink.net> wrote in messagenews:lpednRHhebunIZfW...@earthlink.com...
Check out that publisher at Preditors & Editors: http://www.anotherealm.com/prededitors/.
If the publisher is not listed there, P&E has never heard of it, which
P&E may not have if it's new. In that case, google it, or check with
writers' groups and guilds around the country. Somebody will have a
discussion of them, or a recommendation (one way or the other). But
always, always, always try for a full-service publisher who will do
the paper version and complete marketing!
Janet
What is POD?
Joyleen E. Seymour
Print on Demand.
Joyleen E. Seymour
No advance. They sell for $14.95. They're not mass market paperbacks
though, they're trade paperbacks. Like Paperback originals. It doesn't
look like they do a ton of marketing. MWA doesn't approve any POD
presses. But... it's a new press specializing in New England authors.
They distribute through the usual channels. They are available on
Amazon and at Barnes and Noble. They're not a vanity press. I've been
trying for ten years. Of course, they've only just asked to see the
manuscript, not offering me a contract yet. I can still send them the
whole thing without committing.
Joyleen E. Seymour
>
> Check out that publisher at Preditors & Editors: http://www.anotherealm.com/prededitors/.
> If the publisher is not listed there, P&E has never heard of it, which
> P&E may not have if it's new. In that case, google it, or check with
> writers' groups and guilds around the country. Somebody will have a
> discussion of them, or a recommendation (one way or the other). But
> always, always, always try for a full-service publisher who will do
> the paper version and complete marketing!
Yeah. I've written three novels, had two agents, and have not yet been
able to get a publisher.
I did run this publisher through the bewares section at Absolute write.
They are new, and they are not up at Preditors and Editors. I did
email one of their authors and she is pleased with them.
It's not like they're asking me to sign a contract yet, and I haven't
heard anything particularly bad about them.
Francis A. Miniter
Just my opinion, but I think a lot of people will confuse
POD with vanity press publications. I know there is a long
tradition in New England of subscription publishers. That
is why Mark Twain came to Hartford, in fact. But in his
day, salesmen went door to door pushing the product. So I
guess one big question is how they are going to market the
book. Just listing it with Amazon and B&N is not going to
generate sales. Are they going to arrange book signings,
interviews, reviews?
If it is non-fiction, you might want to have them sign a
confidentiality agreement before sending the manuscript.
--
Francis A. Miniter
Oscuramente
libros, laminas, llaves
siguen mi suerte.
Jorge Luis Borges, La Cifra Haiku, 6
Janet
Well, I'd buy an author whose work I new and liked POD if s/he could no
longer get a regular publisher. For example, if someone like Nicholas
Kilmer, whose work I really like but is very badly distributed, went out of
print, I'd buy his that way.
How are POD books bound? Is it safe to assume that they are double-sided,
and have a cover and binding of some sort?
Joan in GB-W
Is there editing . . . or do you edit yourself?
A friend of mine published a book via a vanity press. There was little to
no editing, and I cringed when I read parts of his book.
Joan
Chris F.A. Johnson
I think that varies from "publisher" to "publisher".
With some, it's available for an extra cost.
> and I cringed when I read parts of his book.
I've done the same with some books from real publishers.
--
Chris F.A. Johnson <http://cfajohnson.com>
Author: =======================
Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress)
Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress)
barbara fister
I suspect I buy POD books all the time - most university presses are
going that route for their backlist. In this case, it's just a
difference in printing. They can keep their backlist available without
storing inventory. It costs them more per unit, but if you're only
selling a couple of hundred books over a decade, it's cheaper.
If the publisher acquires, edits, and distributes their books through
the usual channels, or at least some of them, the fact that it isn't
printed by an offset (?) process shouldn't matter. For a bookseller to
carry it, they probably will require that it have a good discount from
the cover price and be returnable. (For what it's worth, Amazon takes at
least as large a chunk of the cover price as a bricks-and-mortar store.)
barfly
Jennifer Santo
On 11/23/09 11:47 AM, in article
lpednRHhebunIZfW...@earthlink.com, "Joyleen E. Seymour"
<joyleen...@earthlink.net> wrote:
It would have to depend on the book, frankly. Most libraries will not buy
POD, so that's something to take into consideration.
--
Jenni :-)
Willow
Woudl I buy a POD novel - probably not, unless it was remaindered and
had some special feature....
Willow
Joyleen E. Seymour
>>
>
> Just my opinion, but I think a lot of people will confuse POD with
> vanity press publications.
I was wondering about that, there does seem to be a tendency for people
to assume that POD is synonymous with vanity press. But this is not a
vanity press.
I know there is a long tradition in New
> England of subscription publishers. That is why Mark Twain came to
> Hartford, in fact. But in his day, salesmen went door to door pushing
> the product. So I guess one big question is how they are going to
> market the book. Just listing it with Amazon and B&N is not going to
> generate sales. Are they going to arrange book signings, interviews,
> reviews?
It looks like they expect the author to do all of this.
>
> If it is non-fiction, you might want to have them sign a confidentiality
> agreement before sending the manuscript.
>
It's fiction. And they haven't accepted it yet, I'm just trying to get
a handle on the whole POD thing.
Joyleen E. Seymour
It is not vanity publishing. There is editing. I wouldn't be paying
for anything. It's just that if people wanted the book they'd have to
order it. Some bookstores might carry it.
barbara fister
> It would have to depend on the book, frankly. Most libraries will not buy
> POD, so that's something to take into consideration.
POD is a printing process; I think you meant libraries don't buy
self-published books, most of which are printed by a POD process.
Maybe it's partly because the word makes one think of pod people, false
and empty books replacing real ones and some guy running up the highway
screaming "they're here!"
barfly
Joyleen E. Seymour
> Jennifer Santo wrote:
>
>> It would have to depend on the book, frankly. Most libraries will not
>> buy
>> POD, so that's something to take into consideration.
>
> POD is a printing process; I think you meant libraries don't buy
> self-published books, most of which are printed by a POD process.
>
>
> barfly
>
See I was wondering if there might be issues, but it does come down to
the fact that libraries and bookstores order books anyway, right? So it
shouldn't really matter. MWA doesn't like POD presses, and I'm not sure
about reviews. More investigation is in order.
Francis A. Miniter
> Francis A. Miniter wrote:
>
>>>
>>
>> Just my opinion, but I think a lot of people will confuse POD with
>> vanity press publications.
> I was wondering about that, there does seem to be a tendency for people
> to assume that POD is synonymous with vanity press. But this is not a
> vanity press.
> I know there is a long tradition in New
>> England of subscription publishers. That is why Mark Twain came to
>> Hartford, in fact. But in his day, salesmen went door to door pushing
>> the product. So I guess one big question is how they are going to
>> market the book. Just listing it with Amazon and B&N is not going to
>> generate sales. Are they going to arrange book signings, interviews,
>> reviews?
> It looks like they expect the author to do all of this.
Not only is that expensive, but an individual contacting a
bookstore or a radio station does not have the caché of a
publishing house making the same request. It could prove to
be very frustrating with little gain. The same goes for
newspapers and journals that review books.
Maybe I am too pessimistic, but I fear that without the
commitment of a publishing house to use its good name to
market the book, sales are unlikely to be significant. Now,
I do recognize that the Internet has been the vehicle for
enormous rises in popularity of musical pieces, but part of
that is the instant access and gratification because the
song can be downloaded in seconds. Even if the Internet can
spread the popularity of a book in a similar way,
gratification is severely delayed in a POD situation. Most
buyers are not determined readers as RAMmers are.
barbara fister
> Not only is that expensive, but an individual contacting a bookstore or
> a radio station does not have the caché of a publishing house making the
> same request. It could prove to be very frustrating with little gain.
> The same goes for newspapers and journals that review books.
Though most authors don't get much publicity push from mainstream
publishers either. Arranging book signings and interviews is only done
for the books they are really pushing. The review issue is another
matter - and libraries rely on reviews in prepub outlets such as LJ, PW,
SLJ, and Booklist - it's important to get a foot in those doors if you
can. They do review small publishers' books, but not self-published. And
they don't review everything.
Another issue (if you're at all interested in bookstore sales) is having
a rep who knows his or her stuff. They are fewer on the ground and
represent more territory, but they are crucial to selling books to the
bookseller. Then again, bookstores (like review outlets) are struggling
to stay open, so it's not the deal-breaker it once might have been.
barfly
been there, done that
ELF
Not if ebook readers become common enough.
While I can't see trying to read an entire book sitting at a
computer monitor -- many people seem to quite enjoy the various ebook
readers.
elf
Wes Struebing
I believe it's been mentioned that it seems that the only people who
might really benefit from POD are well-established authors, who don't
need the "safety net" or logistics support of established publishing
houses.
But then, BNA'a (big-name authors) could probably "publish" their own
stuff and bypass middlemen entirely. And still make money.
Were I in the situation, I think I'd take a serious think about those
points.
But thanks for making clear that POD is NOT the same as vanity
publishing.
--
Wes Struebing
I pledge allegiance to the Constitution of the United States of America,
and to the republic which it established, one nation from many peoples,
promising liberty and justice for all.
Homepage: www.carpedementem.org
linkedin profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/wesstruebing
Lynn Allen
> I believe it's been mentioned that it seems that the only people who
> might really benefit from POD are well-established authors, who don't
> need the "safety net" or logistics support of established publishing
> houses.
Or those with worthwhile books that cannot find an agent or a publisher.
We tried the traditional route with the first book in my husband's
series (www.skepticaljuror.com) . 50 agents all with the standard "not
right for us."
Did you know it costs about $8 per proposal that you send? So I guess
we could have tried another 100 or 200 or thousand agents/publishing
houses. And gone broke and eaten any possible profit from the book. And
yes we tried to carefully target the book proposals, the problem is
that it doesn't fit a single standard category. It's not totally true
crime, or courtroom procedural or innocent-man-convicted, or juror
education. It's all of them, plus a bit of drama and reality.
So we're in the process of becoming our own small publisher. POD with
Lightning Source. Distribution through Amazon and small bookstores
which can order it, and direct internet sales with our own distributor.
We're blogging our progress (follow the blog link from the website
above), which is now at the early reader stage. We're editing heavily,
and we've invested in professional cover design and book design.
Nothing about this book is going to say "amateur" if we can help it.
If the numbers work out, we'll be making something like $6-8 book.
Rather than the $1 per book against advance one makes with the
traditional publication route. We have to do ALL the work ourselves
though. And there is an amazing amount of work in areas you can't even
imagine.
And we do have the advantage that this work is non-fiction. POD success
for an unknown fiction author is really really unlikely. People will
search by keyword for non-fiction online, but they will not do that for
fiction. It doesn't make sense for fiction. An urge to read a new
fiction author comes from a recommendation, a review, or seeing the
book on a shelf. Non-fiction marketing is a completely different beast.
However, unless you are already an established author, publishing
houses nowadays do almost *nothing* toward publicity or marketing. Most
ask for, as part of your proposal submission, a plan of what YOU are
willing to do to promote the work.
POD is not vanity. If the publisher is offering the services of a
normal publisher, including editing, page & cover design, distribution
and whatever minimal marketing is available, it might not be a bad idea
if other paths to publication just dont' seem to be happening.
Sometimes, POD books have made a big enough splash to get regular
publishing houses interested. It's a very long shot, but has happened.
Just get an attorney to read the contract in fine detail. No point in
contracting with a company that doesn't return any money at the end of
the day.
--
--
Lymaree
Joyleen E. Seymour
> On 2009-11-24 18:03:40 -0800, Wes Struebing <str...@comcast.net> said:
>
>> I believe it's been mentioned that it seems that the only people who
>> might really benefit from POD are well-established authors, who don't
>> need the "safety net" or logistics support of established publishing
>> houses.
>
> Or those with worthwhile books that cannot find an agent or a publisher.
>
> We tried the traditional route with the first book in my husband's
> series (www.skepticaljuror.com) . 50 agents all with the standard "not
> right for us."
>
>
> And we do have the advantage that this work is non-fiction. POD success
> for an unknown fiction author is really really unlikely. People will
> search by keyword for non-fiction online, but they will not do that for
> fiction. It doesn't make sense for fiction. An urge to read a new
> fiction author comes from a recommendation, a review, or seeing the book
> on a shelf. Non-fiction marketing is a completely different beast.
>
> However, unless you are already an established author, publishing houses
> nowadays do almost *nothing* toward publicity or marketing. Most ask
> for, as part of your proposal submission, a plan of what YOU are willing
> to do to promote the work.
>
Yes, part of the submission package to this press was a marketing plan.
I am a published author of short stories, I have a website, I have a
working relationship with my library and my local independent bookstore.
> POD is not vanity. If the publisher is offering the services of a normal
> publisher, including editing, page & cover design, distribution and
> whatever minimal marketing is available, it might not be a bad idea if
> other paths to publication just dont' seem to be happening. Sometimes,
> POD books have made a big enough splash to get regular publishing houses
> interested. It's a very long shot, but has happened.
>
Yes, correct, this is just a small press that does do editing and etc,
simply using POD as their way of printing.
I've written three novels in the last eleven years. Had two agents.
Just can't seem to get that standard rich and famous contract.
> Just get an attorney to read the contract in fine detail. No point in
> contracting with a company that doesn't return any money at the end of
> the day.
Not even to that stage yet. They have the full, no offer yet, probably
won't be if my luck continues as it always has.