wacky changeover cues on "Star Wars" SE?
Andrew Shepherd
Does anybody know the reason for the non-standard projectionist's cues
on "Star Wars" SE. The usual elliptical scope cue doesn't have smooth
edges, but is corrugated all around it's circumference. If you've seen
the film, I think you know what I mean.
Andrew
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------------------------------------------------
Andrew Shepherd
mailto:cin...@falcon.cc.ukans.edu
Cinema Technology Experts Group
http://falcon.cc.ukans.edu/~cinema
Dave Nott
In article <32F8B8...@falcon.cc.ukans.edu>,
Andrew Shepherd <cin...@falcon.cc.ukans.edu> wrote:
Remember, the cue is elliptical because it got stretched
by the lens, too. It's actually a "star" shape. Cues
on old Disney animation used to be that way, too (I recall
seeing such cues on FANTASIA in 1990).
Josiah Gluck
In article <5datoq$t...@sjx-ixn10.ix.netcom.com>, Dave Nott
<dave...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
~In article <32F8B8...@falcon.cc.ukans.edu>,
~ Andrew Shepherd <cin...@falcon.cc.ukans.edu> wrote:
~
~>Does anybody know the reason for the non-standard projectionist's cues
~>on "Star Wars" SE. The usual elliptical scope cue doesn't have smooth
~>edges, but is corrugated all around it's circumference. If you've seen
~>the film, I think you know what I mean.
~>
~>Andrew
~>--
~>------------------------------------------------
~>Andrew Shepherd
~>mailto:cin...@falcon.cc.ukans.edu
~>Cinema Technology Experts Group
~>http://falcon.cc.ukans.edu/~cinema
~
~ Remember, the cue is elliptical because it got stretched
~by the lens, too. It's actually a "star" shape. Cues
~on old Disney animation used to be that way, too (I recall
~seeing such cues on FANTASIA in 1990).
The "Star" cues were unique to Technicolor prints. They were usually
magenta in color as they were etched into the magenta (of YCM renown)
record.
Of course--I could be wrong... but I seem to recall picking up this
little factoid somewhere along the way
cheers,
jng
--
Josiah N. Gluck
Audio Production Services
New York City, USA
http://www.interport.net/~josiah
"Wind The Frog!"
Bob Morris
Andrew Shepherd <cin...@falcon.cc.ukans.edu> writes:
>Does anybody know the reason for the non-standard projectionist's cues
>on "Star Wars" SE. The usual elliptical scope cue doesn't have smooth
>edges, but is corrugated all around it's circumference. If you've seen
>the film, I think you know what I mean.
From what I've heard -- though not seen -- they're supposed to be
(wait for it!):
STARS!
Theo Gluck
In article <josiah-0502...@news.interport.net>,
jos...@interport.net (Josiah Gluck) wrote:
> In article <5datoq$t...@sjx-ixn10.ix.netcom.com>, Dave Nott
> <dave...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
> ~In article <32F8B8...@falcon.cc.ukans.edu>,
> ~ Andrew Shepherd <cin...@falcon.cc.ukans.edu> wrote:
> ~
> ~>Does anybody know the reason for the non-standard projectionist's cues
> ~>on "Star Wars" SE. The usual elliptical scope cue doesn't have smooth
> ~>edges, but is corrugated all around it's circumference. **snip***
> ~Cues on old Disney animation used to be that way, too (I recall
> ~seeing such cues on FANTASIA in 1990).
>
> The "Star" cues were unique to Technicolor prints. They were usually
> magenta in color as they were etched into the magenta (of YCM renown)
> record.
>
> Of course--I could be wrong... but I seem to recall picking up this
> little factoid somewhere along the way
>
> cheers,
>
> jng
>
>
That is indeed correct. I have yet to see the re-release, but it sounds
to me like they are either
A) supposed to be stars
B) homage to the old Technicolor cues (which sort of looked like old
notary public seals).
But yes, these were unique to Technicolor, and were scribed into the
Magenta printing record.
--
to reply, please remove asterixes - use: th...@earthlink.net
Theo Gluck
Los Angeles, California
Michelle Vadeboncoeur
Andrew Shepherd <cin...@falcon.cc.ukans.edu> wrote:
: Does anybody know the reason for the non-standard projectionist's cues
: on "Star Wars" SE. The usual elliptical scope cue doesn't have smooth
: edges, but is corrugated all around it's circumference. If you've seen
From what I've heard, they're supposed to be stars.
Now, my question is, just how common are non-circular cues?
The only non-circular cues (circle-cues shown in scope are ovals) that
I've seen is either these stars on STAR WARS SE or squares on the German
film MEN.
--
--==*==-- --==*==-- Michelle R. Vadeboncoeur --==*==-- --==*==--
mrv...@wpi.edu, m...@kluge.net: http://www.kluge.net/~mrv/
Daniel Haude
Michelle Vadeboncoeur (m...@eclectic.kluge.net) wrote:
>The only non-circular cues (circle-cues shown in scope are ovals) that
>I've seen is either these stars on STAR WARS SE or squares on the German
>film MEN.
Indeed, when German labs still made cue marks (which, unfortunately, they
rarely do nowadays) they often used square and even triangular cue marks
besides the common round ones.
--
Daniel Haude /--------------------------------------
Institut fuer Angewandte Physik /
Universitaet Hamburg / ha...@physnet.uni-hamburg.de
---------------------------------/
Theo Gluck
THE CRYING GAME had square motor cues and round picture cues (albeit
stretched out for Cscope)
wide...@aol.com
In article <josiah-0502...@news.interport.net>,
jos...@interport.net (Josiah Gluck) writes:
>The "Star" cues were unique to Technicolor prints.
Does this imply that the Star Wars restoration used
Mr. Lucas's Technicolor prints as their source? This
is a rather exciting scoop if true ... they didn't refer
to this at all in the Fox docu about the restoration.
Scott Marshall
Publisher, Wide Gauge Film and Video Monthly
http://members.aol.com/widegauge/
kmca...@elvis.umd.umich.edu
In article <32F8B8...@falcon.cc.ukans.edu>,
Andrew Shepherd <cin...@falcon.cc.ukans.edu> wrote:
>
> Does anybody know the reason for the non-standard projectionist's cues
> on "Star Wars" SE. The usual elliptical scope cue doesn't have smooth
> edges, but is corrugated all around it's circumference. If you've seen
> the film, I think you know what I mean.
>
Don't know the reason, but the theater I saw it in in Port Huron, MI
(Birchwood GKC) had a novel approach to dealing with this distraction.
They matted off the sides of the film and showed it at an aspect ratio of
less than 2:1. You could just barely see the cues. I was ready to
strangle someone. If the screwed up compositions weren't obvious to
start out with, the unreadable subtitles in the Greedo and Jabba scenes
were a dead giveaway. In addition to the that problem, I have no idea
how they got a print to look that bad on its second day of release. The
colors looked way off and the bulb must have been pretty dim.
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Rob Levandowski
> Don't know the reason, but the theater I saw it in in Port Huron, MI
> (Birchwood GKC) had a novel approach to dealing with this distraction.
> They matted off the sides of the film and showed it at an aspect ratio of
> less than 2:1. You could just barely see the cues. I was ready to
> strangle someone. If the screwed up compositions weren't obvious to
> start out with, the unreadable subtitles in the Greedo and Jabba scenes
> were a dead giveaway. In addition to the that problem, I have no idea
> how they got a print to look that bad on its second day of release. The
> colors looked way off and the bulb must have been pretty dim.
Did you call +1 800 PHONE THX? Lucasfilm takes notice of that kind of
shenanigans, and they'll get it fixed...
--
Robert Levandowski
Internet Systems Analyst
ACC Long Distance Corp. / ACC Internet
wide...@aol.com
>The "Star" cues were unique to Technicolor prints. They were usually
>magenta in color as they were etched into the magenta (of YCM renown)
>record.
Another message in this newsgroup pointed out that Lucas
had Technicolor prints made of SW for his personal vault.
The FOX TV program about the SW restoration showed that
the camera negatives had gone terribly green (the prints
looked green in the dark areas, therefore the negs must
have gone magenta). Did they use the IB tech preservations
as the source elements for the restoration because the
camera negatives were toast? That would explain the
scalloped-edge colorful changeover cues.
Morgan Montague
Weren't the Technicolor change over cues that were star shaped unique to
3 strip material?
Theo Gluck
In article <32FD09...@ix.netcom.com>, Morgan Montague
<tig...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
>
> Weren't the Technicolor change over cues that were star shaped unique to
> 3 strip material?
Not necessarily. Because the IB printing process did not (and the revived
version doesn't either) rely on a 3-strip negative. It is the three
matricies (separations) for printing that matter. Plus, you would NEVER
scribe that mark into your original negative, but rather into a printing
element. Hence the M record could have the cue marks. If that record
became damaged, you'd just pull a new one off the negative. The whole
idea is to NOT screw around witht he camera negative any more than
necessary.
The same applies with printing today: the black circle is a hole that is
punched into the printing internegative. EK (original negative) prints
have to be scribed by hand.
The revived IB system is a PRINTING process only. No one is advocating
three-strip photography.
David Richards
In article <19970208124...@ladder01.news.aol.com> wide...@aol.com writes:
>jos...@interport.net (Josiah Gluck) writes:
>>The "Star" cues were unique to Technicolor prints. They were usually
>>magenta in color as they were etched into the magenta (of YCM renown)
>>record.
>
>Another message in this newsgroup pointed out that Lucas
>had Technicolor prints made of SW for his personal vault.
>The FOX TV program about the SW restoration showed that
>the camera negatives had gone terribly green (the prints
>looked green in the dark areas, therefore the negs must
>have gone magenta). Did they use the IB tech preservations
>as the source elements for the restoration because the
>camera negatives were toast? That would explain the
>scalloped-edge colorful changeover cues.
Can't answer that definitively, but I would like to observe that the
same program showed them re-washing the original negative. Seems odd
to re-wash the negative and then not use it... On the other hand,
YCM Labs appears in the credits for the special edition. They
specialize in making B&W protection masters, and re-creating color
negs from those separations. So it's probably safe to assume that at
least a portion of the film was restored from the fine grain seps.
Would these masters be the same seps used to make the Technicolor prints
for Lucas originally? An interesting question. If so, it might explain
the cues.
In any case, I'm pretty sure Lucas's PRINTS would not have been used
as a master -- not with an existing negative *and* separations.
Dave
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