Tone Osc frequency question + Zaxcom
Marc
my stereoline TX than when set at 400 Hz ; and when hardwired, the is
NO signal intensity difference. Still reads 0vu on reference machine.
Asked differently, Why is the gain structure altered through the
stereoline, and not through a cable?
This discovery culminates a week of troubleshooting.
Douglas Tourtelot
Marc
either.
ok, this situation came about after some critical listening. I no
longer felt confident about my gain structure as I would have liked.
Tone (at 400hz) did'nt sound the same through my Tx-Rx setup as it did
through a hardwire. After doing a default restore, (which brought
back tone @ 1000Hz), I needed to change the gain setting (on the Tx).
(from 26 - 36) to properly line up tone on my the Tx. That led me
again, to compare hardwire vs Tx. Things sounded as they should. I
then went back to 400Hz, kept the tx plugged in one channel, and
hardwired the other. On my reference machine, (the mixer I'm using to
listen to the differences) Through the Tx-Rx, Tone at 400Hz reads at
-7. at 1000Hz reads 0.
On the hradwire, Tone reads at 0 @400Hz AND 1000Hz. Is this still
jibber jabber?
Marc
recreate this experiment.
Set tone at 1000Hz on 442-
Send tone to one channel of Tx, set proper level.
Plug that channel into mixer, set proper level.
send tone hardwired to mixer set proper level.
Line it up.
Change tone to 400Hz on 442.
Has the Tx-Rx level changed on Tx + second mixer?
Paul Graff
Hi Marc,
I recreated your experiment using two 442 mixers with a stereoline
transmitting the left with receiver into input one panned left and an
XLR cable taking right output to input two panned right. I also have
all of my SD mixers set to the more pleasing 400 Hz tone. Result was
no level variation whatsoever at the receiving mixer when the tone was
changed to 1000 Hz. I repeated with another Stereoline transmitter
and also with TRX900 with STA100 adapter and no difference with the
different tone frequencies.
It was also a nice chance to compare hardwire vs. Zaxcom. With the
older stereoline units and no input or the 400 Hz tone broadcasting I
could definitely hear a baseline white noise that was not there on the
hardline. With an open mic it was much harder to notice, even with
just the sound of the room and the birds chirping outside the window.
The TRX900 was dead quiet and even with the lower freq tone or no
input the noise floor was indistinguishable from the hardline.
Interesting. Thanks a lot, Marc. I also swapped out three older and
one new stereoline receivers with no change in results.
On another note, for anyone who has the older stereoline units, I
would recommend defeating the limiter on the transmitter, limiting at
the mixer and running the transmitters pretty hot. To test this, I
turned off limiter on both SD mixers and found that stereoline
transmitter had at least 10 dBs of headroom BEYOND when the three LEDs
would light up (its overload symbol in the gain page of the
transmitter). In other words I would never distort at the transmitter
in normal operation with SD limiters set at 12-16 dB. The three LEDs
were lighting up at about +10 on the SD peak meters. My only other
conclusion is that while the stereolines have served me well, the
TRX900 sounds damn good.
PG
Marc
possibly be causing my Zaxcom unit to behave this way. I have
recreated this experiment several times, swapping the inputs, the
outputs, the mixers. Same result. Tone at 400Hz drop level by 7-10
db and at 100Hz drops off the meter almost altogether. What should I
do next?
Charles Tomaras
news:21791256-7a15-4986...@m73g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
Do you have an associate with the same mixer or with the same transmitter so
you can swap them out and eliminate one or the other as the source of the
issue?
Marc
Charles. Do you believe that it may be a mixer issue? I did swap the
outputs. left to the tx then right to the tx. I'm at a loss. Is there
a secret menu on the Tx?
Charles Tomaras
Have you metered the output of the 442 on another mixer?
Paul Graff
There is a secret menu. Well, not so secret anymore, I guess. I
reference this recent thread:
The menu's pretty cryptic, so I wouldn't mess with the settings except
to turn off the limiters. That's all I've used it for. If you call
or write Zaxcom, I'm sure Howy or someone there would be happy to help
you troubleshoot. Does it sound like extreme LF rolloff when you
listen to transmitted audio? Even if that was the the case, it
shouldn't go anywhere near that high. It is a puzzler, Marc.
Problems are always easier to solve when you can swap out every
component in the chain. Good luck and keep us posted.
PG
jazzology
> On May 10, 7:36 pm, Marc <marcpaque...@excite.com> wrote:
>
> > I do not have a local associate with a stereoline unfortunately
> > Charles. Do you believe that it may be a mixer issue? I did swap the
> > outputs. left to the tx then right to the tx. I'm at a loss. Is there
> > a secret menu on the Tx?
>
> There is a secret menu. Well, not so secret anymore, I guess. I
> reference this recent thread:
>
>
> The menu's pretty cryptic, so I wouldn't mess with the settings except
> to turn off the limiters. That's all I've used it for. If you call
> or write Zaxcom, I'm sure Howy or someone there would be happy to help
> you troubleshoot. Does it sound like extreme LF rolloff when you
> listen to transmitted audio? Even if that was the the case, it
> shouldn't go anywhere near that high. It is a puzzler, Marc.
> Problems are always easier to solve when you can swap out every
> component in the chain. Good luck and keep us posted.
>
> PG
Setting levels using a sine wave is sort of interesting in that we
rarely record one frequency occillating at equal + - energy at a
time... Most digital gear will show something constant on the meter
that will not necessarily match another mfg's idea of meter ballistics
etc, Tone really is not representitive of anything other than a non-
standard, standard.... What is the voltge output of the Zax when
showing tone at lower levels.... I dunno, I'm constantly baffled...
I would be careful when using lower frequency tone as it is a
geometric progression of increasing energy to the lower end of the
frequency range... 400hz sounds more pleasing because it's close
enough to Middle G concert pitch (397hz if memory serves me)... If
anything, user a lower frequency should keep you in a safer range when
recording dialog... my old bulova accutron watch occillated at 400
cycles... close enough to tune a solo guitar and not have it sound too
sharp...
Jeff C
Marc
the results, I would be much oblidged.
jazzology
> If anyone else would care to recreate the experiment and let me know
> the results, I would be much oblidged.
Forget the meters... put the things on an Oscope and measure the
output. The science of substitution troubleshooting will only take
you so far... I wish I had a Zax so I could do this myself.
My Mac has a different idea of what unity gain is from all my other
audio gear....
J c
Marc
I would like to thank all that spent time recreating or attempting
to recreate the experiment. And replied with their ideas. It was VERY
helpful. Is was a lengthy troubleshoot for me, but I have found the
culprit.
Paul, indeed, at the RX it sounded like extreme LF rolloff. I never
would have guessed is was a CABLE!
A cable made custom for the job @ the repair shop from a reputable
equipment dealer that we all know well. A cable I pulled from my bag
of spare "emergency" cables. Never used, kept in a little ziplock for
the unfortunate day when the cable I was using started to fail. A
cable I swapped out two days before I noticed an irregularity.
The double lemo > XLRf with 20db pad built in - cable.
Why, oh why did I doubt the transmitter?, Why did I doubt the tone
generator? I do not know. What have i learned from this painful
series of troubleshooting sessions? Not sure... What's the moral of
the story?
cmassey
Build you own cables, test them immediately to make sure they work
correctly!!!!
Do the latter with cables you buy, immediately upon opening the
package!!!
FWTW....cleve
Jeff Wexler
<e268744c-0e48-4ff6...@r66g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
cmassey <cl...@dallassound.tv> wrote:
And boldly MARK any cable if it is a specialized cable --- particularly
if without the marking it looks like a perfectly standardized cable. I
learned to do this years ago when I made up a series of short jumper
cables, XLR M to XLR F, and one of them I wired as a phase reverser. I
put a little piece of white tape on one of the connector ends (stupid)
which later fell off the cable. Years later I was having a lot of
trouble mixing 2 microphones with my SD 442, some kind of weird phase
cancellation problem, so I pulled EVERYTHING apart, suspicious of
everything except the cable!
- Jeff Wexler
oleg kaizerman
him to catatonic condition a he start make Hmmmm noise when he see the
Z:-)
"Marc" <marcpa...@excite.com> wrote in message
news:c2ab330a-00e9-42db...@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
jean-daniel dodin
>> series of troubleshooting sessions? Not sure... What's the moral of
>> the story?
*always* first blame the cable... beginning with the wall plug :-)). I
have a perfecly good looking guitar cable that gives rumble. Metal
jacks, perfect solders, I keep it only as a reminder of how fragile is
a cable... and to see if anytime I understand why it dont works :-))
jdd
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