Hirose connectors
Larry Fisher
ground (neg) and pin 4 hot (pos). A few products and cables have 1
and 2 wired together and 3 and 4 wired together for redundancy. We are
considering using this connector in the medium future as a locking
power connector that is moderately common and seems to be reliable. My
question is, are there any reasons to not wire the 1,2 and 3,4 pins
in parallel? Such as XYZ product will explode if you do this. Also,
does the group have strong feelings either way about this connector?
Sound Devices uses it and I figure they must have checked it out.
Best Regards,
Larry Fisher
Lectrosonics
Philip Perkins
I hope you don't change the connector on the 411 etc RX. The present
one is simple, easy to find locally, easy to repair and works fine.
The Hirose
is a pain to solder.
Philip Perkins
Whitney Ince
I agree 100 percent don't change the 411 power connection. for all the
reasons already mentioned
rich
cable clamp
though as i work in the uk, all the kit i use and come across is
powered from hawkwoods shoes with hirose connectors and its found on
the SQN so it was all i knew for a while.
i dimly remember that the SQN used to use pins 2 and 3 on its power
out hirose so you could power a radio mic from its internal batteries
- i just had a look at my audio ltd wiring diagrams and the 900-017
powered output cable is wired this way.
André Boisvert
It seems everytime I work on a Hirose, the pins have gotten smaller.
If locking is an issue, how about the screw-on connector used on the
210D?
As long as it's compatible with all your other Rx's.
We're talking Rx's here, right? Or is there something you'd like to
share with the group?
Rob Lewis
assemble. I'll second the locking connector like the BDS, or 210D
style. They are simple, easy to wire, and don't fall out. I feel that
it makes a reliable connection just like the Hirose.
My .02c
Rob
Charles Tomaras
"Larry Fisher" <lectro...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:qkv8g5h09hrp31sj3...@4ax.com...
I vote to keep 'em the way they are. I've never had one fail but have seen
the hirose fail on numerous occasions over the years. The current locking
connector will handle far more strain and stress than a hirose.
John Frink
to provide an external charger access to the internal batteries. The
SQN-4S handbook says [in part] "The mixer carries two four-way
connectors, one of which [DC] gives access to the internal batteries
for charging and also serves to connect to an external power source."
The handbook shows the following pin-out:
1 - External Power [and]
2 - Battery Negative (-)
3 - Battery Positive (+)
4 - Ext. Power In Positive (+)
John Frink
Crocodile Tunes
Newark, Delaware
Glen Trew
While some devices might still use pins 2 and 3 of the HRS for
charging, I think this design is dated to when a specific external
charger was required to charge a specific chemistry of internal
batteries (namely, NiCad). Even still, I can't think of a reason this
would interfere with Lectro jumping pins 1-2 and 3-4. I agree with the
advantage of redundancy, which would increase reliability even if an
input cable didn't use pins 2 and 3. The Remote Audio BDS battery
distribution box uses the TA-4 for an input connector, jumping pins
1-2 and 3-4 for increased reliability and decreased voltage drop, and
with several thousand of these boxes in use now for many years,
doubling up on the pins has not been a problem that I am aware of.
Regarding the 4-pin HRS as a power connector: It is particularly
popular outside of North America, which may be the most compelling
reason to use it, which I believe is why Sound Devices went with it
(they actually started with a 2.1mm coax connector and then changed to
the HRS when going into Europe). I can't think of a practical reason
to prefer it other than it snaps into place without twisting (but
people usually try to twist them anyway). Compared to other options
(like the 2.1mm coax and TA4), they are expensive and complex, but I
have to say that they have been quite reliable.
Glen Trew
Douglas Tourtelot
D.
On 11/18/09 5:26 PM, in article o91Nm.35200$rE5....@newsfe08.iad, "Charlie
Derek
One advantage is that many mixers will already have hirose cables in
your kit. I dislike the barrel coax connectors because there seems to
be an infinite variety of diameters/lengths/inner diameters and
they're never labeled. Hirose's aren't that hard to solder once you
ruin a few figuring them out... ;) However I find that you really
need the right gauge wire otherwise it won't work. I still vote for
XLR 4 for anything heavy duty. Yes they're expensive too but what
isn't? I just wish there was a right angle version.. While we're at
it can we convince either Neutrik or Switchcraft to start making right
angle TA's? Lectro's solution is great but it would be nice if it
were just a stock part..
freeheel
> in parallel? Such as XYZ product will explode if you do this.
!!!!!YES many Panasonic Cameras will drop into record if you plug a
Hirose plug into their power tap with parallel soldered pins!!!!!!!!!
I built my own cables to use as power taps to use my 411's as a camera
hop. I used the redundant parallel pin wiring for extra strength.
Worked great with Sony Cameras like F900 etc. I got onto a different
shoot using Panasonic HDX 900 and put it all together. Plugging the
cable in dropped the camera into record and then disabled the start/
stop button!
Apparently the Hirose Power tap does dual duty as a remote start stop
depending on how it is wired....
As for the other question, I prefer the coax power connector - easy
to make or find replacements in remote locations. I would prefer to
have a locking coax, but I usually have a molded 90 degree coax power
connector UNDER a 90 degree XLR that holds the power connector
perfectly in place. Replacing all my connectors with Hiroses would be
a bit of a nightmare and make them less, not more reliable.
cheers,
Brent Calkin
batter...@googlemail.com
Larry,
their was a time when i was a big fan of the Hirose connector; that
was until i had to solder one! The group are right about the pins
being very small and thus difficult to solder. The connector is
expensive for what it is (i would rather have a Lemo; they make right
angle versions too!). On certain RX devices i have seen the connector
fall, into the unit.
However, i do like your solution for the SR units.
Glen Trew
But Brent, that would be caused by the power cable plugged into the
camera, and would not be affected by jumping pins 1-2 and 3-4 at the
Lectro receiver.
Glen Trew
Glen Trew
freeheel
> But Brent, that would be caused by the power cable plugged into the
> camera, and would not be affected by jumping pins 1-2 and 3-4 at the
> Lectro receiver.
>
> Glen Trew
>>>>>>>
Whether you short the pins at the camera end or the RX end of the
cable, it's still a short between those pins, no?
When the camera's power tap sees a short between those pins it'll drop
into record.
cheers,
Brent Calkin
Larry Fisher
I'm reading all the input and I appreciate the opinions; good, bad and
indifferent.
Best Regards,
Larry Fisher
Lectrosonics
Glen Trew
"> ...it's still a short between those pins, no?"
No. If a power cable uses only pins 1 and 4, then pins 2 and 3 will
not be connected at the camera end, regardless of how the connected
device is wired (presumably a future Lectro receiver).
Glen Trew
initial and
If, however, you were to go Panasonic to (new) Lectro device with a
cable wired 1,4 on one end and 1/2,3/4 at the other end then there is
always the potential that the cable could be plugged in the wrong way
around.
While none of us would ever do that :-) someone else may.
If however, it is only the socket on the Lectro device that is wired
1/2,3/4 then there should be no problem, except that the new Lectro
manual should state very clearly that any plugs/leads that are made up
should only ever be wired 1,4.
Grant Roberts
freeheel
My assumption was that all the pins in the cable would be active,
which of course is not necessarily, or even likely, to be the case.
Although with many people rolling their own cables, it's definitely
something to watch out for, especially since it makes so much sense
mechanically to try to use all those tiny pins!
Cheers,
Brent Calkin.
Glen Trew
I have to disagree with this. The only thing a manufacturer (Lectro,
in this case) would have to state is what their pin configuration is.
In the case of the Panasonic having a unique use of pins 2 and 3, it
would then be up to Panasonic to state that clearly. Again, Lectro's
use of pins 2 and 3 would have no bearing on the operation of the
Panasonic camera.
Glen Trew
freeheel
answered it, since I had the experience of having a tied pin hirose
having a strange effect on "product XYZ" which happens to be a camera
that I plug a Lectrosonics receiver into fairly often.
Whether that is my own fault or not is not the issue, it's merely
information. And it's not an isolated incident - 2 weeks after I had
the problem I saw a camera assistant looking very puzzled while trying
to mount a monitor on a panasonic camera, since every time he tried to
plug the monitor in, the camera would drop into record!
Lectro is amazing for the amount of information that they give us and
their concern for the strange predicaments that we put their gear
into. A lot of other manufacturers prefer their gear to work as some
kind of Black Box, which is not appropriate for many of us who build
our own stuff or have to repair stuff on location using what we can
find in a market in Kurdistan. I built a cable based on what I knew
of Sony's power take-off architecture and it worked great for that.
It did not work for the Panasonic and I am just sharing that. If
Lectro decides to build and sell a hirose to hirose power cable, then
this series of posts will let them know that tying the pins together
can cause a problem - which may not be the exact question that was
asked, but is certainly closely related.
cheers,
Brent Calkin
Ps While on the subject of companies who provide excellent info about
their products; Sound Devices does something interesting with their
DC power-in Hiroses on the 7 series recorders where one pin
configuration charges the onboard battery and one just provides power
to the device - so there's lots of different configurations to be
aware of.
initial and
I have to disagree with this Glen. Since there is no standard in our
industry for the use of pins 2, 3 and since Sounddevices, SQN and
Panasonic have used those pins for different purposes (similar in the
case of SQN and Sounddevices) it would be near impossible to get
Panasonic to retrospectively state the case even if they are using
those pins for Tally and remote stop/start.
I have seen a number of Hirose to Hirose "home-made" leads that have
been inadvertently shorted between adjacent pins.
Not knowing what Lectro is going to apply this to, and assuming it
could well connect to a camera, then there would /could be an issue
with Panasonic's
I also believe that Lectrosonics, who have always shown us their
awareness of the end user, would give clear warning in the manual to
that effect. Large Japanese corporations are not known for their
ability to listen to mere mortals. It may be an idea for Sounddevices
to warn as well.
I agree, in theory, that it is a Panasonic problem, but practicality
suggests that Lectrosonics (and Sounddevices) have a better grip on
who their market is.
Grant Roberts
For those who don't have the manuals:
SQN (probably the first to use 4 pin Hirose in our industry??) 4SIVe
Pass thru power - separate plug- 1,2 earth in/battery negative, pin 4
switched V in
power in: 1,2 power earth in/battery negative pin 3 battery positive,
pin 4 power positive in.
7 series Sounddevices
pins 1,2 earth in (and I assume battery negative), pin 3 external
power in to charge battery regardless of the unit being on or off, pin
4 external power in (and charge battery)
Panasonic (ala HPX2100) Pin 1 earth and when switched to pin 3 rec
starts/stops the camera, pin 2 sinks current for the tally lamp, pin 3
used to stop/start the camera, pin 4 V+ out.
Douglas Tourtelot
contend that the molded co-ax with the locking ring achieve this. Let all
of us make the other end fit what it should. I certainly have specific
cables with specific ends for specific devices. Mark it as "Panasonic
Camera" and you'll be certain to use the correct cable on that camera.
D.
On 11/19/09 10:50 PM, in article 59acg59tg0g94ihbq...@4ax.com,
Matt Mayer
<snip>
>
> For those who don't have the manuals:
> SQN (probably the first to use 4 pin Hirose in our industry??) 4SIVe
> Pass thru power - separate plug- 1,2 earth in/battery negative, pin 4
> switched V in
> power in: 1,2 power earth in/battery negative pin 3 battery positive,
> pin 4 power positive in.
>
> 7 series Sounddevices
> pins 1,2 earth in (and I assume battery negative), pin 3 external
> power in to charge battery regardless of the unit being on or off, pin
> 4 external power in (and charge battery)
>
> Panasonic (ala HPX2100) Pin 1 earth and when switched to pin 3 rec
> starts/stops the camera, pin 2 sinks current for the tally lamp, pin 3
> used to stop/start the camera, pin 4 V+ out.
Just to add to the fun, a couple of friends of mine just bought
Convergent Design's NanoFlash:
http://www.convergent-design.com/CD_Products_nanoFlash.htm
It uses a Hirose input, the only difference is that Pin 1 is positive
and Pin 4 is negative. sigh.
---Matt
Scott
attempting to butane solider a Lectro PS212 on a sidewalk at Ft Hood
for network news coverage of the shootings. The tiny pins were a real
pain to try and re-attach the cold solder where I gave up on
attempting a field repair and just went with batteries in the
receivers. In the past five years I've had a Sound Devices Hirose fail
and now a Lectro Hirose fail. I can see how using all four pins would
help reliability but it appears to be a delicate connector and
certainly one that's more difficult to repair. One last point to agree
with - it's expensive and hard to find for sale on the net to order a
replacement.
Indira Subramanian
the current push-in DC connector.
http://www.switchcraft.com/products/jack-146.html
and maybe this - if it is robust enough? I have never used or seen
this one as yet.
http://www.switchcraft.com/products/564.html
I was fortunate to get in touch with Mr. Steven from Switchcraft in UK
and the kind gentleman sent me some samples of locking 3.5mm audio
jacks for Sennheiser G2 receivers and TA5F connectors for my Lectro
Tx's. Very solid and robust I must say. Going by what these are like,
I am sure the DC connectors will also be as good, if not better.
-vin
Larry Fisher
is very fragile and I can't get them with a molded on cable. Plus
Switchcraft is bound and determined to build things in inches and then
it doesn't fit metric parts from the power supply manufacturers.
We have a locking connector now that is solid but we always run the
danger of the off shore company that makes them going out of business.
This has happened to us several times with chargers, cables, etc. The
replacement supplier is always a little different and then things
don't fit as well. I really wish some manufacturing would come back to
the U.S. but that is the subject of a different rant.
The second locking plug works well but is not available in a panel
mount, only in a PC mount. Again, I want to thank everyone for their
"input". We will probably use a Hirose and a barrel connector on the
Octopack in the future. The Europeans seem to despise the barrel
connector. We are looking at some other connectors but they would be a
little harder to find. DigiKey handles them and that is almost
universal. This is a company Switchcraft bought.
http://www.switchcraft.com/products/pdf_files/micro.pdf
I'm getting samples but nothing will be done without careful
consideration and external input from users.
Best Regards,
Larry Fisher
Lectrosonics
Mark O'Russa
products and elsewhere. They lock very securely, seem strongly built,
and are still easy to connect/disconnect, but they don't come in the
right angle variety.
The micro-con-x look promising, as long as they aren't too big.
Locking, durable plastic, right angle. It looks like the panel mount
only screws on, though.
Mark O'Russa
Derek
getting the strain relief right.. (may well be the "secret" to getting
any connector to be reliable). It is trickier than neutriks elegant
chuck designs but it can be done. I've found that cable outer-
diameter is important. The best diameter, and jacket, cable I came up
with was from an old cell-phone AC adapter. Nice round rubbery cable
(I find that side-by-side cable is much more susceptible to twisting
failure) that the brass clamp can grip well. I have yet to find a
good stock cable from the local hardware stores.. you have to ensure
the cable jacket is thick enough (or use heat shrink) so that the
clamp has some meat to grab on to otherwise light twisting will snap
the solder joints, which are tiny.
There also seems to be two types of hirose 4pins in circulation, I've
built my cables using the "normal" version:
<A HREF="http://www.trewaudio.com/store/product.php?
productid=630&cat=80&page=1">NORMAL</A> (hirose part number
HR10A7P4P) This has the rubber boot and brass clamp that is kind of
tricky.
..But there also seems to be the "deluxe" version that sound devices
uses on their pre-built cables and has available for purchase: <A
HREF="http://www.sounddevices.com/images/products/
xlh-800px.jpg">DELUXE</A> I've never used these shinier looking
hirose's.. Maybe they have better (easier to install) strain relief??
More reliable? Anybody know?
One big downside to this connector is that I have found it to be a NON-
reusable/repairable connector. ie.. if the solder joint snaps it's
almost impossible to re-solder a previously used lug.. You can't
really clean-off old solder from these lugs like on other connectors
because you end up destroying the lug either from heat damage or you
just end up reducing the depth of the lug resulting in a poor
mechanical joint that will likely fail again... So I just snip them
off and put a new one on if there's a problem with one (have never had
a problem with the ones I've made myself and I'm pretty hard on them
with a lot of twisting and routing around in tightly fitted bag).
about $15 for the part though and it always takes me almost an hour to
install just one..
Another thought: 22awg seems to be the heaviest copper you can
effectively terminate with this guy. any thicker and it will be too
large for the lug after its all tinned. of course, you can snip some
strands off but then it seems to me you're creating a bottleneck and a
cable with a false spec and that can't be good electrically
speaking.. If your device draws enough that you need much heavier
than 20-22 awg then a different connector should be used.
Final thoughts... I like the idea of adopting this connector despite
it being a pain in the ass just for sake of uniformity. I have other
gear that uses them and when you see a 4-pinned hirose socket on a
piece of audio or video gear you generally know what its for, what the
pin assignment is, and what the needed plug looks like.. Unlike with
co-ax barrels where it looks to be about 2mm but maybe its really
2.2mm and then oh crap the internal diameter is too skinny and it
still doesn't fit, or now its too long altogether and I'm afraid it
will snap off if I bump it, ambiguous polarity etc... I'm
exaggerating a bit and this is more of a problem with consumer gear I
know, but still a problem I enjoy not having with pro-level gear.
Now, if all manufactures would switch to something better than the
hirose 4p that would be best but as we know; unlikely.
Matt Mayer
<snip>
>
> There also seems to be two types of hirose 4pins in circulation, I've
> built my cables using the "normal" version:
> <A HREF="http://www.trewaudio.com/store/product.php?
> productid=630&cat=80&page=1">NORMAL</A> (hirose part number
> HR10A7P4P) This has the rubber boot and brass clamp that is kind of
> tricky.
>
> ..But there also seems to be the "deluxe" version that sound devices
> uses on their pre-built cables and has available for purchase: <A
> HREF="http://www.sounddevices.com/images/products/
> xlh-800px.jpg">DELUXE</A> I've never used these shinier looking
> hirose's.. Maybe they have better (easier to install) strain relief??
> More reliable? Anybody know?
Derek,
It is all in the part number. The crappy rubber-booted, brass ring
strain relief version is the HR10A, while the nice metal chucked version
is simply HR10. The metal chuck contains a very nice compression strain
relief similar to Neutrik.
I have had no problems with the HR10 version--and I have a lot of these
floating around. It is also a lot easier to use smalled diameter wire.
I just use a couple of layers of heat shrink to build it up to the
point where the strain relief will grab it.
Search HR10-7P-4P and you will find multiple places to purchase them
directly.
---Matt
Douglas Tourtelot
http://www.fullcompass.com/product/356771.html
I always carry a set of Cam-lok to 5-pin Lemos adapters around for big
timecode jobs.
D.
On 11/21/09 8:54 AM, in article
7be81a3a-fad6-4898...@a31g2000yqn.googlegroups.com, "Derek"
Charles Tomaras
"Douglas Tourtelot" <dtour...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:C72D85D8.895F%dtour...@comcast.net...
>I putting in my $.02 for Cam-lok connectors.
>
> http://www.fullcompass.com/product/356771.html
>
> I always carry a set of Cam-lok to 5-pin Lemos adapters around for big
> timecode jobs.
Is that for the Denecke Concert Slate with the BIG timecode numbers? How
large a timecode number can you fit through a Cam-lok connector?
Douglas Tourtelot
D.
On 11/21/09 12:03 PM, in article CIXNm.50866$rE5....@newsfe08.iad,
Larry Fisher
LarryF
Lectro
Larry Fisher
company was recently purchased by SwitchCraft. I think the connectors
are about the size of the Hirose. It's just a possibility at the
moment. If we did something off the wall like this, we'd have to make
sure we AND our dealers always had stock of the parts. They aren't
expensive.
Best Regards,
Larry Fisher
Lectrosonics
vin
> Micro-con-x connectors have been around for a long time and the
> company was recently purchased by SwitchCraft.>>>>>>>>>
They look very robust. Sounds like a good plan. There's even a right-
angle version.
-vin
Matt Mayer
> Micro-con-x connectors have been around for a long time and the
> company was recently purchased by SwitchCraft. I think the connectors
> are about the size of the Hirose. It's just a possibility at the
> moment. If we did something off the wall like this, we'd have to make
> sure we AND our dealers always had stock of the parts. They aren't
> expensive.
Ahh, yeah now I remember these. They are the same power connectors AJA
uses for their down-convertors et al.
Not a big fan of them though. IIRC, they were easy enough to work on,
but once you closed the connector up, they were next to impossible to
open up again if something went bad.
I would vote for the Hirose just on the standpoint of not wanting yet
another connector that I have to keep spares of.
---Matt
vin
> open up again if something went bad.
Matt, but you wont need to keep any Hirose! :)
-vin
vin
1. keeping it simple - ease of installation, check and repair
2. availability
The locking DC connector seems to make sense on both grounds.
1. It is definitely the easiest compared to a Hirose or Tajimi or
Fischer - to solder, assemble and recheck in the field.
2. IF - IF - IF a locking DC pin cable fails, it may be still possible
to find a DC pin (non-locking, the usual type) in a store and use it
temporarily. This may be possible so long as the overall dimensions
are the same.
Maybe Switchcraft can offer Lectro a better version of the locking DC
connector with a more robust casing. After all, it is just a change of
material used to build the casing for them - they can use a more
robust plastic for a few production runs. Maybe wishful thinking here,
forgive me Larry - I am not all that keyed in to production line
factors in manufacture. :)
-vin
No_MOS
>
> Ahh, yeah now I remember these. They are the same power connectors AJA
> uses for their down-convertors et al.
>
> Not a big fan of them though. IIRC, they were easy enough to work on,
> but once you closed the connector up, they were next to impossible to
> open up again if something went bad.
>
> I would vote for the Hirose just on the standpoint of not wanting yet
> another connector that I have to keep spares of.
>
> ---Matt
I agree with Matt. I build a lot of cables and just got done with a
monitor cable that used the Micro-con-x, they are not exactly what I
would call robust and once they're closed, they're closed. The Hirose
is a little more difficult to work with but well worth it. The only
drawback that I see is the fact that they're not available in a right
angle version.
I just checked on a 411 rec. and if the Hirose was mounted on the same
plane as the current coaxial connector, the boot of the Hirose extends
just a little past a connected right angle XLR. The problem then
becomes while the rec. is sitting in a bag the cable from the Hirose
is forced to make an abrupt right angle turn forcing all of the wear
and tear to be transfered to that point and thereby potentially
causing a premature failure. A solution, short of Hirose making a
right angle version, would be to recess the Hirose panel mount into
the rec. a little, forcing the right angle XLR to bear the load which
is kinda' what happens now if using both a right angle XLR and coaxial
power connector.
That being said if the coaxial power connector is out I'd vote for the
Hirose, it's a great connector, and on the upside it's a lot easier to
work with and a lot cheaper than a Lemo.
Ken
Douglas Tourtelot
that is pretty standard for the Lectro products is being done away with. In
pretty much all respects, it beats the hell out of the Hirose. People that
need to DIY just need to buy the pigtail version and solder the proper
connector on the other end. Couldn't be simpler and the molded connector
and pigtail is, by far, the most robust of anything we have been speaking
about here. Field reparable? Just keep have half a dozen pigtails in your
kit. Cut to length and solder anything (even Cam-loks) on to the other end.
Done! Moving to the Hirose is a really bad idea in me ($.02) book.
D.
On 11/23/09 11:51 AM, in article
76c1bc14-613b-495a...@k9g2000vbl.googlegroups.com, "No_MOS"
Larry Fisher
for a while yet.
Best Regards,
Larry Fisher
Lectrosonics
Martin Harrington
"Larry Fisher" <lectro...@gmail.com> wrote:
You know Larry,
There is an inherent problem in putting this out for open discussion.
Everyone has an opinion, and every second person is an expert / critic.
You need to do what is right for your company and therefore right for you
customers.
It's all very well garnering opinion, but you know your company best, and
your market.
Users will ultimately accept your design decisions, because they ultimately
know that whatever decisions you make are in the best interests of Lectro
and its users.
Martin Harrington
Matt Mayer
> I am still not clear on why the molded right angle locking co-ax connector
> that is pretty standard for the Lectro products is being done away with. In
> pretty much all respects, it beats the hell out of the Hirose. People that
> need to DIY just need to buy the pigtail version and solder the proper
> connector on the other end. Couldn't be simpler and the molded connector
> and pigtail is, by far, the most robust of anything we have been speaking
> about here. Field reparable? Just keep have half a dozen pigtails in your
> kit. Cut to length and solder anything (even Cam-loks) on to the other end.
> Done! Moving to the Hirose is a really bad idea in me ($.02) book.
>
> D.
>
Doug,
My vote for the Hirose wasn't an indictment of the coax jacks now used
on the current receivers. Quite the opposite, I am very happy with the
simplicity of the molded right angles that I currently use.
It was more of a vote against the Micro-con-x.
I don't see a real advantage to the Hirose on the receivers, but on the
Octo-Pack, that's a whole different story.
---Matt