everything and the kitchen sink for $1.50
mhp
two months so I was happy for the call. Apparently it was sound for
some reality show. I do mostly commercials, a little movie work and
the occasional ENG shoot. The lady proceeded to ask me if I was
available for two days and could I provide: 5 channel mixer, 4
wireless systems, two stereo hops for two cameras, boom, backup
recorder and IfB. I told her that I have most of this equipment, but I
don't have the two stereo hops. ( I know the price for me to rent them
is about $200.00 a day each). My next question was how much the rate
was. She told me that they could offer $175.00 per day for the gear.
That's pretty much where the conversation ended. I never got to the
hourly rate. I think I was too stunned. I then asked her if she
realized the investment it takes to own that type of gear. 15k? 20k?
(Let's see 15k dIvided by $175.00 = NO WAY!!!).
I said, I'm sorry, but I am not available. Thanks for the call. She
then said that things were different here. That guys in NY were doing
this kind of work for this money. REALLY GUYS??. I got a similar call
just before summer from ABC TV asking for the same type of package,
and they said the same thing about guys in CA and NY working this way.
If this is true, I don't understand how you can afford to buy any gear
if this is the return that you're getting on the rental, (unless you
work a stupid amount of days per year. Then you have no life outside
of the business.) Technology is making it easier for us to cover more
ground with small gear, but we are shooting ourselves in the foot if
we continue to "give it away". (BTW, what is the labor rate? $350,
450,for....EVER.)
I don't mean to sound rude, but it seems like things are going
backwards. How do we get the rates we deserve?
Eric Toline
You can't. The days of $550/10 and $350 for gear are gone for eng/efp
jobs. There will always be someone hungry enough to take the $400/12+
and $175 for gear jobs.
I bet if you let it be known that you'll do a $500 flat with all the
gear you'll be working your tail off.
Eric
Graham
That guys in NY were doing
> this kind of work for this money. REALLY GUYS??. I got a similar call
> just before summer from ABC TV asking for the same type of package,
> and they said the same thing about guys in CA and NY working this way.
To be clear, a few D-bags that accept this gear rate do not constitute
the "guys in NY."
Wyatt Tuzo
The only people I know who will agree to rental rates like these are
news mixers, the true ENG guys. In this case, it can make economical
sense -as the client usually hires them on a daily basis.
Don't get me wrong, I am a huge proponent of keeping rates (both labor
and equipment) fair. But we are in a business, and in some markets, a
competitive one. I would personally never let a kit that size go for
less than twice what your producer had to offer.
Producers who ask for deals like this, and back you into a corner to
get it, are just performing their role. Its a business and its a Its a
game. Their job is to make every attempt to get you at as low a rate
as possible. And your job is to be informed and know how to volley the
ball back. If I were in your shoes, I would have asked for the
specific needs of the shoot first (let them know you're willing to
work with them)... Then, based on your professional opinion, assess
what equipment could be cut from the order to meet their budget. If
you, then, send them an itemized breakdown of each piece of necessary
equipment and its rental cost per day, they are free to decide if and
where to cut corners. Im sure that if you whittled the equipment down
to what, within your rate structure, came to $250 or so, they may have
taken it. Im not suggesting that you give equipment away, just that
you give them what they actually need and are willing to pay for.
Just keep in mind that most of these producers just have a de-facto
list in front of them that tells them what they will need for their
shoot. A sort of "how to shoot a reality show" paint by numbers. If
you let them know that you're interested in finding a way to make it
work for them, they will more often than not find a little leeway in
their budget.
I would also like to go on record as saying that there are plenty of
professional reality productions out there that pair fair, to scale,
rates, and who work their crews 10hr days. Not all reality producers
are as abusive as they get credit for ;-).
Ultimately, You get to decide which jobs you take and which you pass
on. You ask "How do we get the rates we deserve?" ...Easy, only accept
the rates you feel you deserve. Its as simple as that.
Best,
L. Wyatt Tuzo
www.newnoisesound.com
NYC
Oleg Kaizerman
"mhp" <mharv...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:0d5c02f9-9146-4599...@k17g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
> So I got a call today for work. I have only worked about two days in
> two months so I was happy for the call. Apparently it was sound for
> some reality show. I do mostly commercials, a little movie work and
> the occasional ENG shoot. The lady proceeded to ask me if I was
> available for two days and could I provide: 5 channel mixer, 4
> wireless systems, two stereo hops for two cameras, boom, backup
> recorder and IfB. I told her that I have most of this equipment, but I
> don't have the two stereo hops. ( I know the price for me to rent them
> is about $200.00 a day each). My next question was how much the rate
> was. She told me that they could offer $175.00 per day for the gear.
> That's pretty much where the conversation ended. I never got to the
> hourly rate. I think I was too stunned. I then asked her if she
> realized the investment it takes to own that type of gear. 15k? 20k?
> (Let's see 15k dIvided by $175.00 = NO WAY!!!).
for gear that cost 25000 ( 10 used lectrosonics 205, + 552 +ifb ) and you
have 140 days a year - 175 its a good money
100% return on your investment , while you loosing 20% of the gear value ,
be real even with maintains , insurance you still making much more then
in the bank .
the gear usually help you get the job and make some profit not really
become your main profit .
my 2 shekels from the sound mixer / renatls company on planet earth POV
:-)
Hunter
I have had a few calls like this over the last few months, and I
generally do as recommended above. That is, I let the producer know
the "rate card" for each component of the package they want costs, and
give them the option to pare it down to fit their budget. I'm not
talking about an itemized list, here, just a general, "the basic ENG
kit w/ two wires, mixer, and a boom is $250/day, and the add'l bits
you've requested are XXX...maybe there's a way to shoot it so that WE
don't need to use so much gear?"
If they're willing to negotiate, then great, if they say "I'm sorry,
but all I've got is $250/day for the whole sound package AND the
engineer" that's when I tell them how grateful I am that they called,
but that I'm afraid I can't do it. Sometimes I'll offer them the name
of one of the younger guys I know who don't have a lot of gear but are
still cool doing low $$ gigs (I make sure they hear that I'm basically
offering them an apprentice. Sometimes they call back with a better
offer, sometimes they don't. When they do, I always make sure the
invoice shows full rate and the appropriate discount. So far, this has
won me a few long term clients who don't pay all that well, but seem
to respect me, honor my requests, and treat me like I matter. The few
"giveaway" gigs I've done have NEVER led to more work or more money.
Just my dos centavos,
-H
Scott wrote:
> We can't compete with the rental houses which give away the sound gear
> on these types of shows, by offering 2, 1 and sometimes .5 day week
> rentals. Until the rental houses change the rates this will continue.
> It is a race to the bottom.
�R�..-����*��*b�rt��
<kaiz...@gmail.com> schreef:
>for gear that cost 25000 ( 10 used lectrosonics 205, + 552 +ifb ) and you
>have 140 days a year - 175 its a good money
No it isn't. Therefore one should ask more, to stay in business.
And that's why some keep in the business, and some have difficulties.
R
Oleg Kaizerman
"?R�..-��?.*?�*b?rt�." <~�..-�-.�-y�?-.~���*@le.?s.com> wrote in message
news:11oof5pm153f2lvto...@4ax.com...
you can ask whatever you like and sit at home :-)
�R�..-����*��*b�rt��
<kaiz...@gmail.com> schreef:
>you can ask whatever you like and sit at home :-)
Nope. You can also make good rates and work.
It all depends on yourself.
R
Oleg Kaizerman
"Scott" <sc...@farroutpro.com> wrote in message
news:00590b48-2708-4093...@d9g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
> We can't compete with the rental houses which give away the sound gear
> on these types of shows, by offering 2, 1 and sometimes .5 day week
> rentals. Until the rental houses change the rates this will continue.
> It is a race to the bottom.
Oleg Kaizerman
when you have competition and slow market you don't get good rates for
anything
the 175 for 25000 $ investment for 140 days a year its a gold mind if
you independent mixer
Pascal Van Strydonck
where income taxes are 50% ( Canada )!!!! That REALLY means that for
every dollar i make, 50 cents is gone to the governement. Now just
for fun, rates are as follow in Montreal: 300$ to 350$ for 10 hours/
day and a basic kit is 2 wires + boom for 150$/day. So from the USA
at way more then that with a lot less taxes, please let me cry....
Not that i am being mad at anybody, just that i get so mad at our
local rates that it gets me REALLY PISSED!!!
Pascal
Philip Perkins
Would you like to have the USA health care and education system as
well?
Just kidding. Rates are sinking everywhere. You can turn down low-
budg jobs,
but if that's all that comes along you have to decide whether or not
to stay in the game,
and what you can afford to bring along equipment wise. Around here I
think many
people will not be upgrading wirelesses etc. or at least doing it
piecemeal fashion,
since it gets hard to justify state of the art gear being rented for
1980's rates.
This is ok some of the time since the jobs are tending to be smaller
and smaller
and need less stuff.
Philip Perkins
Charles Tomaras
"Pascal Van Strydonck" <pasc...@mac.com> wrote in message
news:f854fcdc-28bc-420f...@m26g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
How much do you pay each month for your health insurance? :) We have our own
burdens to deal with in the US as well! At least when I travel to Vancouver
BC for a few days, I never stop at the border to get my GST refund on the
way back down to Seattle...I think of it as my contribution to my brothers
from the North.
Oleg Kaizerman
"Pascal Van Strydonck" <pasc...@mac.com> wrote in message
news:f854fcdc-28bc-420f...@m26g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
> where income taxes are 50% ( Canada )!!!! That REALLY means that for
> every dollar i make, 50 cents is gone to the governement. Now just
2 wierless used - 3000
mixer used - 1500
boom with zep used -1300
all the rest-1000
total- about 7000
pascal you robb your production taking 2% a day :-)
why exactly you think you been different from cars rental company ?
car that cost 25000 you rent for less then 70 a day while a gear that cost
the same you want more then twice ?
Pete Damski
> "Pascal Van Strydonck" <pascal...@mac.com> wrote in messagenews:f854fcdc-28bc-420f...@m26g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
Oleg,
I have to jump in here. When you use the analogy of the rental car
business, you are comparing "Apples to Oranges." The car rental
companies depend on volume to make up for the low prices. And they
get a better rate on vehicle purchases than the average consumer. The
problem with professional sound gear is that it is expensive to
purchase. This is a niche market as opposed to autos, which everybody
owns. I agree that times have changed, for the worse, and there needs
to be some compromise to stay in business. As long as there are
mixers willing to cut their rates (both labor and rental), the
downward spiral will continue. Yes, you get what you pay for, but
this means that the experienced mixers will be forced out of the
business by the young newbies. With many producers, money is more
important than quality.
Douglas Tourtelot
This puts mixers with big rigs back in the position of nickel-and-diming
producers for "additional equipment."
Used to be, for $450 a day, there were no outside rentals. Yeah, maybe a
Thumper rig, but if they put on a third camera, the TC slate was available
to use. Eight actors need to be wired, no problem, at least as far as the
UPM was concerned.
Now, for $300, you want to use the EONs, that's $50 more. Third slate,
that's $50 more. Earwigs, well you see my point. And that sucks all
around, even if veteran producers know there is a new game and don't
specifically have an issue with it. It becomes a matter of that much more
time and effort in billing and approvals. In accounting paperwork and
approvals. It's just silly, but that $100 for a five-day week looks SO good
in their budget. It avoids a lot of hassles for the UPM from the "home
office" and probably goes a ways toward making certain that they are asked
back next season. It just becomes nickel-and-diming. Ugg!
D.
On 11/13/09 6:11 AM, in article
0b0d67e6-560e-41c3...@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com, "Pete
Gerard
> backwards. How do we get the rates we deserve?The biz has changed for sure. The respondant who noted that the trend is more towards small scale shoots is entirely correct. Webisode, small films, indie features dont have a lot of money, but theres lots of work. Here i nyc ive gotten back into the biz as a sounie, and immediately picked up work from craigslist, which sucks for the most part, but the film schools are churning out grads and theyre all on the hvx200 shooting. Go find them. Trim your kit. The days can be tough, but its mostly easy work. Theyll be happy to have someone aboard with lots of experience. Where are you btw?
Oleg Kaizerman
"Pete Damski" <pda...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:0b0d67e6-560e-41c3...@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com...
On Nov 12, 11:44 pm, "Oleg Kaizerman" <kaize...@gmail.com> wrote:
> "Pascal Van Strydonck" <pascal...@mac.com> wrote in
> messagenews:f854fcdc-28bc-420f...@m26g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
>
> > Guys, sometime reading this forum makes me mad. I live in a country
> > where income taxes are 50% ( Canada )!!!! That REALLY means that for
> > every dollar i make, 50 cents is gone to the governement. Now just
> >> day and a basic kit is 2 wires + boom for 150$/day. So from the USA
>
> 2 wierless used - 3000
> mixer used - 1500
> boom with zep used -1300
> all the rest-1000
> total- about 7000
>
> pascal you robb your production taking 2% a day :-)
>
> why exactly you think you been different from cars rental company ?
> car that cost 25000 you rent for less then 70 a day while a gear that cost
> the same you want more then twice ?
Oleg,
I have to jump in here. When you use the analogy of the rental car
business, you are comparing "Apples to Oranges." The car rental
companies depend on volume to make up for the low prices.
snip-------
no - the low price comes from competition , other wise it calls monopoly
and the price go up
,check the hot season when allot of turist come to town :-)
And they
get a better rate on vehicle purchases than the average consumer.
snip-------
by the way when i said 25000 it doesnt matter if they got the discount or
not ,thats the price what matter .
show me one soundman who change the gear every 18 months :-)
The
problem with professional sound gear is that it is expensive to
purchase. This is a niche market as opposed to autos, which everybody
owns.
snip-------------
you don't purchase sound gear if you don't rent it out , even when you give
t it for free, you just rent it inside your labor work
I agree that times have changed, for the worse, and there needs
to be some compromise to stay in business. As long as there are
mixers willing to cut their rates (both labor and rental), the
downward spiral will continue. Yes, you get what you pay for, but
this means that the experienced mixers will be forced out of the
business by the young newbies.
snip----------------------
bushtit , in the world where the gear is the same ( or cost the same - )
the better soundman will get the job .
With many producers, money is more
important than quality.
snip .......................................
next time when you will produce your film you would be able to write any sum
in yor check , till then its their money :-)
the gear comes to help you get the job and maybe do some extra not beeng
the main isue .
by the way a umber from NY mixer who rented out his gear this week to
production company
4-411 ( 9000)
1+3 lectro ifb (1200)
1 zaxcom stereo with recording ( new -5000)
1 mixer ( 1800)
1 boom + 2 mics ( 2500)
bag + batteries + cables - charger - 1000
20000 worth of gear was rented for 1000 usd per week
Douglas Tourtelot
Tell 'em to go fuck themselves, sell your gear for 25 cents on the dollar
and go back to school in IT. It's the only way out!
D.
By the way, apparently, the Boeing 787 airplane (The Dreamliner. Gag!) is
going to be built in South Carolina by people who will be glad to have the
non-union work at $14/hr. That's after they leave non-union Walmart where
they were getting $10. But do they know how to build airplanes? I'll be
flying Airbus from now on. At least they have real trained workers building
their planes. Oh, and the unemployment rate continues to rise above 10%
even though business tells us that profits are being made. Check out
Disney's latest profit on Google News.
D.
On 11/13/09 9:07 AM, in article
0b2d1f68-fa80-4cab...@a31g2000yqn.googlegroups.com, "Gerard"
Eric Toline
> Sure they'd be glad to have 25 years experience for $100/day! Who wouldn't.
> Tell 'em to go fuck themselves, sell your gear for 25 cents on the dollar
> and go back to school in IT. It's the only way out!
>
> D.
>
> By the way, apparently, the Boeing 787 airplane (The Dreamliner. Gag!) is
> going to be built in South Carolina by people who will be glad to have the
> non-union work at $14/hr. That's after they leave non-union Walmart where
> they were getting $10. But do they know how to build airplanes?<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Of course they will. Boeing will train them.
I'll be flying Airbus from now on. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Actually you don't have a choice, the airline makes that choice. All
commercial airliners have to meet the same flight worthiness
standards.
At least they have real trained workers building their
planes.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
You mean they all knew how to build planes from birth instead of being
trained by Airbus? Get real.
Eric
John Williamson
> By the way, apparently, the Boeing 787 airplane (The Dreamliner. Gag!) is
> going to be built in South Carolina by people who will be glad to have the
> non-union work at $14/hr. That's after they leave non-union Walmart where
> they were getting $10. But do they know how to build airplanes? I'll be
> flying Airbus from now on. At least they have real trained workers building
> their planes.
>
Boeing, as far as I remember reading, largely start with a shipment of
metal and composite ingredients coming in through the front door of
their factory, then build an aeroplane.
Airbus start with shipments of metal and composite ingredients coming
into factories all over Europe, then, after they're made, fly the bits
to a central factory, where they're all fastened together. For instance,
the wings of the A380 are made in Chester, England, then flown in a
specially modified aircraft to Toulouse, France for final assembly.
Other parts of the airframe are made in Germany and Spain, among other
places.
I've seen a picture of a Boeing aircraft in flight with about a third of
the fuselage missing. I've seen no equivalent picture of an Airbus. The
Boeings I've flown in also seemed not to rattle and squeak as much as
the Airbuses I've flown in, although the sample size of the experiment
is very small.
Nothing to do with Audio, I know.
--
Tciao for Now!
John.
(Writing from the United Kingdom, so I really should try and support
Airbus a bit more....)
rraudio
joystick interface, which pilots hated, which gave no 'resistance
feedback' BTW) the plane's computer did not like what the pilot was
doing, took control, and flew the aircraft into a wooded area instead
of the runway. The pilot survived as I recall.
Douglas Tourtelot
compared to the guys up here who have been doing it for years. You get
real. It's all about the money, consumers be damned.
D.
On 11/14/09 7:10 AM, in article
9272105b-8853-4e12...@e23g2000yqd.googlegroups.com, "Eric
Toline" <audi...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> Eric �
>
Jason Hemmerlin
> "mhp" <mharvey...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
Using 205's or 210' in NYC is not really viable anymore. They'll work
for a film or commercial shoot, but will be a real hassle for a
reality shoot. Radio waves suck in this city and not being able to
scan for the best possible freqs at the start of the day for wahtever
neighborhood you're shooting in can a huge problem through out the
day. Which means that you now have to spend atleast 2 g's a piece on
401's or about 3 g's on 411's. That's 12 g's alone in wireless just
for your bag not including wireless hops to camera. Then add in
everything else and you could easily hit 30 grand for your kit.
That's comparable to some of the more professional cameras that these
crews are using these days. A camera rental goes for almost a 1000 a
day. So how the hell do you figure that a kit of that size calls for
a rental price of that little. Get with the times. This gear is not
cheap and in NYC in particular you have to have the best equipment or
you'll be left with nothing but a bunch of camera ops and producers
bitching about you and you'll be sitting on your ass at home trying to
sell your gear on Ebay so you can make next months rent.
I'm guessing that you probably work or have worked in a camera rental
house so your idea of what a real sound kit is, is ridiculously
distorted
John Williamson
One of a sequence of such events, IIRC. The eventual explanation was
that the computer was programmed to think "This speed and height above
ground combination only occurs just before landing. I must be about to
land." Which is what it proceeded to do in a number of cases, not all of
which were prevented by the pilot's quick reactions. It also had
problems initially landing at Schiphol, because it couldn't recognise a
runway altitude below sea level as being valid, so it flared nicely and
landed perfectly.....about twenty feet up from the runway.
Unfortunately, a few of the "Flying into the trees" cases were when the
pilot was doing a low, slow flypast at an airshow at a high angle of
attack, *just* fractionally short of a stall, held stable by the
computer. It was the plane's party trick and bloomin' impressive when
seen from the ground, and brown underwear scary from the inside. (Or so
I've heard.) I saw it the first time it was done in public at
Farnborough Air Show.
The firmware has since been updated so it won't happen again.
In at least one case, there were passengers on board, as the plane was
doing the airshow appearance as a diversion from its normal route. Not
all the passengers survived. Almost all the airshows were recorded on
video along with the subsequent disappearance of the aeroplane into the
trees, and are possibly on YouTube somewhere.
Don't forget, though, being inside a plane (Any plane) in flight is
probably the safest place in the World. More people die in bed than
anywhere else.
Jason Hemmerlin
> "Pascal Van Strydonck" <pascal...@mac.com> wrote in messagenews:f854fcdc-28bc-420f...@m26g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
And those car rental companiesget new cars regularly and sell the ones
that renters have beaten the crap out of. They are also rented alot
more often than our sound kits, thus warranting a cheaper rate. Then
you add in the fuel charges when you don't send it back with the tank
filled to where it was when you left. You know they rape you on those
charges. They are also huge international companies that are making a
ton of money, not just 1 person trying to make a living. And the cars
that you get to rent for that price and small compact cars that cost
more like 15000 or less.
Eric Toline
> Eric, I'd say the ex-Walmart workers will be a little behind the curve
> compared to the guys up here who have been doing it for years. You get
> real. It's all about the money, consumers be damned.
>
> D.
>
> On 11/14/09 7:10 AM, in article
>
>
>
> Toline" <audio...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> > On Nov 13, 2:03 pm, Douglas Tourtelot <dtourte...@comcast.net> wrote:
> >> Sure they'd be glad to have 25 years experience for $100/day! Who wouldn't.
> >> Tell 'em to go fuck themselves, sell your gear for 25 cents on the dollar
> >> and go back to school in IT. It's the only way out!
>
> >> D.
>
> >> By the way, apparently, the Boeing 787 airplane (The Dreamliner. Gag!) is
> >> going to be built in South Carolina by people who will be glad to have the
> >> non-union work at $14/hr. That's after they leave non-union Walmart where
> >> they were getting $10. But do they know how to build
> >> airplanes?<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
>
> > Of course they will. Boeing will train them.
>
> > I'll be flying Airbus from now on. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
>
> > Actually you don't have a choice, the airline makes that choice. All
> > commercial airliners have to meet the same flight worthiness
> > standards.
>
> > At least they have real trained workers building their
> > planes.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
>
> > You mean they all knew how to build planes from birth instead of being
> > trained by Airbus? Get real.
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
No you get real Doug. Do you seriously think the planes made in SC
will be any less airworthy than those made up there? Your "union only"
mind set is clouding your judgement.
Eric
Eric Toline
> Don't forget, though, being inside a plane (Any plane) in flight is
> probably the safest place in the World. More people die in bed than
> anywhere else.
>
> --
> Tciao for Now!
>
> John.
Well it's a safe bet that there are more people in bed worldwide at
any given time than there are people in planes at any given time.
Eric
Douglas Tourtelot
Let me put it in a way that you might understand, Eric. What's the big
difference if they give the guy at the deli your 788T and four wireless.
You job is easy right? Anyone can do it. And besides, he'd be MUCH
cheaper. Oh wait! Training and experience.
Oh, BTW, spend five weeks on a union picture where the workers have a
contract to keep the producer from abusing them, and then go work for five
weeks on a non-union picture and tell me on which one you feel better after
you're done. I've done both and I can answer that question for me.
Your mind is clouded by, well I won't say, but it's clouded<g>
That's all I got to say.
D.
On 11/14/09 3:44 PM, in article
bfe85fcc-5a76-4674...@c3g2000yqd.googlegroups.com, "Eric
Eric Toline
> No, you get real. No I didn't. Yes you did.
>
> Let me put it in a way that you might understand, Eric. What's the big
> difference if they give the guy at the deli your 788T and four wireless.
> You job is easy right? Anyone can do it. And besides, he'd be MUCH
> cheaper. Oh wait! Training and experience.
>
> Oh, BTW, spend five weeks on a union picture where the workers have a
> contract to keep the producer from abusing them, and then go work for five
> weeks on a non-union picture and tell me on which one you feel better after
> you're done. I've done both and I can answer that question for me.
>
> Your mind is clouded by, well I won't say, but it's clouded<g>
>
> That's all I got to say.
>
> D.
You got something to say then say it. I firmly believe the non-union
workers in SC will turn out the same quality airframe as those union
workers in Washington. We both know although you won't admit it that
Boeing will apply the same QC standards to all their assembly
facilitys regardless of any union affiliation. BTW how many
manufacturers of the gear we all use are made in union shops?
Eric
Martin Harrington
b0c623ec-edbf-4761...@j9g2000vbp.googlegroups.com, "Jason
Hemmerlin" <hemme...@yahoo.com> wrote:
I think your guest of camera rental at $1000/day is a little off the mark
too.
Martin H
Oleg Kaizerman
"Jason Hemmerlin" <hemme...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:f3403a9c-d542-47c0...@j35g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
On Nov 12, 11:44 pm, "Oleg Kaizerman" <kaize...@gmail.com> wrote:
> "Pascal Van Strydonck" <pascal...@mac.com> wrote in
> messagenews:f854fcdc-28bc-420f...@m26g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
>
> > Guys, sometime reading this forum makes me mad. I live in a country
> > where income taxes are 50% ( Canada )!!!! That REALLY means that for
> > every dollar i make, 50 cents is gone to the governement. Now just
> >> day and a basic kit is 2 wires + boom for 150$/day. So from the USA
>
> 2 wierless used - 3000
> mixer used - 1500
> boom with zep used -1300
> all the rest-1000
> total- about 7000
>
> pascal you robb your production taking 2% a day :-)
>
> why exactly you think you been different from cars rental company ?
> car that cost 25000 you rent for less then 70 a day while a gear that cost
> the same you want more then twice ?
And those car rental companiesget new cars regularly and sell the ones
that renters have beaten the crap out of. They are also rented alot
more often than our sound kits, thus warranting a cheaper rat
Then
you add in the fuel charges when you don't send it back with the tank
filled to where it was when you left. You know they rape you on those
charges. They are also huge international companies that are making a
ton of money, not just 1 person trying to make a living. And the cars
that you get to rent for that price and small compact cars that cost
more like 15000 or less.
snip -----------------------
its not that you try to make a living , you try to make a living from the
stuff you rent not from audio skills , so my dear your crap worth exactly
as you negotiate not 350 or 500 or 20 bucks .
that's the market rule
by the way - 15000 grand car I can rent for less then 50 bucks
here in israel even less then 750 per mont up to 4000 km. and be sure
that they make money .
Oleg Kaizerman
snip-----------------------------------
no my dear, iam production sound mixer with more then 150000 usd in audio
gear ( if you calculate new ) which we rent out as well .and as rentals
know exactly how low you can go without loosing money
about 1000 usd camera , if you talking about 900 sine alta I can
guaranty you the local shooter take 70% of the rental house if not less
by supplying 140000 usd worth set ( 70000 camera , 50000 for 2 lenses ,
batteries , tripod , light )
weekly rate goes between 2-3.5 days depend on the market .
if you production sound mixer who works at least 10 days a month and like
make 20% before taxes on your gear its not rely more then 50% a year , so
for yours 30000 set its 1200 per month or 120 per day .
but if you one who sit at home and like 300 its your problem :-)
�R�..-����*��*b�rt��
<kaiz...@gmail.com> schreef:
>when you have competition and slow market you don't get good rates for
>anything
>the 175 for 25000 $ investment for 140 days a year its a gold mind if
>you independent mixer
Some people do get hired for their skills oleg. Also in slow markets,
and with a lot of competition, even in the sound business.
And also get better rates for the EQ then you suggest here.
You talk about robbing all the time, but afaik, i'm not robbing from
myself, or my colleagues .
R
Oleg Kaizerman
> On Thu, 12 Nov 2009 22:07:08 +0200, "Oleg Kaizerman"
> <kaiz...@gmail.com> schreef:
>
>>when you have competition and slow market you don't get good rates for
>>anything
>>the 175 for 25000 $ investment for 140 days a year its a gold mind if
>>you independent mixer
>
>
> Some people do get hired for their skills oleg. Also in slow markets,
> and with a lot of competition, even in the sound business.
> And also get better rates for the EQ then you suggest here.
get real noone see you from one meter when it comes to production money:-)
the only thing that still counts is the union rates or minimum wages allowed
by the country you work .
your equipment can go for zero as no union will ever fight for it
175 for 25000 its 100% return in one year less 15-30 you loose for how
your gear go down the price + maintains and insurance
wow you made 70% , fuck this is 15 times more then the bank , wow you need
to pay 30% tax you sill almost 50% , wow its not enough because I sit at
home and don't have work because iam asking 300 .
wow you in the wrong business .
>
> You talk about robbing all the time, but afaik, i'm not robbing from
> myself, or my colleagues .
yes you are the guy who robb production for 25 euro for dvd and 5 euro for
9v
we all know that
>
> R
>
>
�R�..-����*��*b�rt��
>get real noone see you from one meter when it comes to production money:-)
I am real, and i think that this is more about your specific local
market, and about your personal situation.
>
>>
>> You talk about robbing all the time, but afaik, i'm not robbing from
>> myself, or my colleagues .
>
>yes you are the guy who robb production for 25 euro for dvd and 5 euro for
>9v
>we all know that
Are you suddenly the guard of the production-prices in general here ?
I ask even more, and also for other things oleg. And thats why i'm
doing fine, whatever competition, and rental rates.
Maybe call the people i work for, and make your cheap offer ?
R
Oleg Kaizerman
> On Mon, 16 Nov 2009 15:01:50 +0200, "Oleg Kaizerman"
>
>
>>get real noone see you from one meter when it comes to production
>>money:-)
>
> I am real, and i think that this is more about your specific local
> market, and about your personal situation.
my personal situation is just fine :-)
all my recorders( 4 ) out this week - bountifull money , i can sit at
coffee shop and watch ladies asses all week :-)
check the first poster again ,that what going around .
by the way I lost quit allot of offers to European rentals as what do you
know they give even better prices then I
cantar - 200 euro per week - do you believe it , I do as the last one was
sold on ebay for 4300 euro
hahhaahha, wortless shit .( sn - 94)
>>
>>>
>>> You talk about robbing all the time, but afaik, i'm not robbing from
>>> myself, or my colleagues .
>>
>>yes you are the guy who robb production for 25 euro for dvd and 5 euro for
>>9v
>>we all know that
>
> Are you suddenly the guard of the production-prices in general here ?
> I ask even more, and also for other things oleg. And thats why i'm
> doing fine, whatever competition, and rental rates.
> Maybe call the people i work for, and make your cheap offer ?
>
> R
no idiot , i just remind the rest what shit you are .:-)
>
�R�..-����*��*b�rt��
<kaiz...@gmail.com> schreef:
> I do as the last one was
>sold on ebay for 4300 euro
>hahhaahha, wortless shit .( sn - 94)
Oh my, it's cantar time again i see.... :)
>no idiot , i just remind the rest what shit you are .:-)
Next is your wannabe Simon Wiesenthal act, and after that you
disappear for a few days, otherwise we all know you never work at all.
What next after your documentary fail, pron ?
Oleg Kaizerman
> On Mon, 16 Nov 2009 20:54:49 +0200, "Oleg Kaizerman"
> <kaiz...@gmail.com> schreef:
>
>> I do as the last one was
>>sold on ebay for 4300 euro
>>hahhaahha, wortless shit .( sn - 94)
>
> Oh my, it's cantar time again i see.... :)
robero your junk cost les then 175 a day :-)
>
>>no idiot , i just remind the rest what shit you are .:-)
>
> Next is your wannabe Simon Wiesenthal act, and after that you
> disappear for a few days, otherwise we all know you never work at all.
> What next after your documentary fail, pron ?
>
hhahaha . funny , nop , commercial tomorrow and few days next week , life
is good
go suck dicks idiot , you need a momentary fix ,
�R�..-����*��*b�rt��
<kaiz...@gmail.com> schreef:
>>
>
>hhahaha . funny , nop , commercial tomorrow and few days next week , life
>is good
Really. If life is so good, why all the hassle here oleg.
Oleg Kaizerman
>
to bit a shit of you assholl is like dessert for a good diner :-)
ciao
Oleg Kaizerman
"?R�..-��?.*�*b?rt�." <~�..-�-.�-y�?-.~���*@le.?s.com> wrote in message
news:9mj3g5pvo3gfcr7hv...@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 16 Nov 2009 23:28:04 +0200, "Oleg Kaizerman"
> <kaiz...@gmail.com> schreef:
>
>>
>>"?R�..-��?.*?�*b?rt�." <~�..-�-.�-y�?-.~���*@le.?s.com> wrote in message
>>news:cpf3g55cm4mhcrclo...@4ax.com...
>>> On Mon, 16 Nov 2009 21:44:33 +0200, "Oleg Kaizerman"
>>> <kaiz...@gmail.com> schreef:
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>hhahaha . funny , nop , commercial tomorrow and few days next week ,
>>>>life
>>>>is good
>>>
>>> Really. If life is so good, why all the hassle here oleg.
>>
>>>
>>to bit a shit of you assholl is like dessert for a good diner :-)
>>ciao
>>
>
> well, you only talk about dope, money, hookers & blow jobs, so my
> guess is that you are already doing 16 track pron.
> For 50 shekkels a day, because competition is so hard, and your
> business is slow. And free vodka ofcourse.
>
> and you wonder why your career is going south :)
50 shekels , sorry I cant be in competition with assholl sucking dicks
only to have meet taste in your mouth :-)
Roberto , you are a small piece of shit and low life , you just have to
admit it
ciao
.
Derek
�R�..-����*��*b�rt��
<derek....@gmail.com> schreef:
>I love this thread!
You must be Anti Semite !
MikeTheMic
> So I got a call today for work. I have only worked about two days in
> two months so I was happy for the call. Apparently it was sound for
> some reality show. I do mostly commercials, a little movie work and
> the occasional ENG shoot. The lady proceeded to ask me if I was
> available for two days and could I provide: 5 channel mixer, 4
> wireless systems, two stereo hops for two cameras, boom, backup
> recorder and IfB. I told her that I have most of this equipment, but I
> don't have the two stereo hops. ( I know the price for me to rent them
> is about $200.00 a day each). My next question was how much the rate
> was. She told me that they could offer $175.00 per day for the gear.
> That's pretty much where the conversation ended. I never got to the
> hourly rate. I think I was too stunned. I then asked her if she
> realized the investment it takes to own that type of gear. 15k? 20k?
> (Let's see 15k dIvided by $175.00 = NO WAY!!!).
> then said that things were different here. That guys in NY were doing
> this kind of work for this money. REALLY GUYS??. I got a similar call
> just before summer from ABC TV asking for the same type of package,
> and they said the same thing about guys in CA and NY working this way.
> If this is true, I don't understand how you can afford to buy any gear
> if this is the return that you're getting on the rental, (unless you
> work a stupid amount of days per year. Then you have no life outside
> of the business.) Technology is making it easier for us to cover more
> ground with small gear, but we are shooting ourselves in the foot if
> we continue to "give it away". (BTW, what is the labor rate? $350,
> 450,for....EVER.)
> I don't mean to sound rude, but it seems like things are going
> backwards. How do we get the rates we deserve?
It's in a production manager's job description to try and get you to
work for as little money as possible, so don't take it personally.
Eventually the production manager will find somebody desparate or dumb
enough to work for that kind of money.
Douglas Tourtelot
his job.
Good, fast or cheap. Pick two!
D.
On 11/22/09 8:38 AM, in article
90e1ccd5-71bb-418e...@m26g2000yqb.googlegroups.com,