Citizen Kane
Wakko's Biggest Fan!
best American movie. My prof thinks Citizen Kane is the best
American movie. I saw it for the first time last week and I must
admit it is a great movie, technically, and narratively. I don't
know if it is the best American movie because I haven't seen them
all. What do others think of this movie? And what do you think
is the meaning of Rosebud (I know WHAT it is, but what does it
symbolize?)
Well, later!!
--
Rachael Dougherty
rdo...@expert.cc.purdue.edu
Dylan Ryall
: Well, someone mentioned that their prof though Casablanca was the
IMO, 'Rosebud' symbolized Kane's lost youth and innocense(sp?),
Everything he left behind when he went to live with his guardian. Some
people claim that nobody actually heard him say 'Rosebud' because, even
though one of the servants claims to have heard him, when they show him
saying it at the end of the film he whispers and appears too far away
from anyone else to be heard. Just a piece of trivia in response to
something I saw once on a tv show.
Dy...@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us
The other day upon the stair
I met a man who wasn't there
He wasn't there again today
I wish that man would go away.
Jamie Furlong
: American movie. I saw it for the first time last week and I must
: admit it is a great movie, technically, and narratively. I don't
: know if it is the best American movie because I haven't seen them
: all. What do others think of this movie? And what do you think
: is the meaning of Rosebud (I know WHAT it is, but what does it
: symbolize?)
Whether Citizen Kane is the best American movie or not is a moot point -
there are bound to be dozens (if not hundreds) of people who will hate it
(many friends of mine find it the dullest American film ever). Personally
I think it is wonderful - I find the narrative interesting, and feel its
contribution to cinema as an art form is invaluable. Gregg Toland's use
of deep focus continually impresses me and the editing is so tight! All
in all, it is one of my favourite American films, though there are others
which I may enjoy more (in a less intellectual, purely experiential sense).
As for "Rosebud," there are many stories behind its meaning. The most
common (and amusing) one I've heard is that it's a sly poke at William
Hearst (ostensively the newspaper baron upon whom Kane is modeled), for
whom "rosebud" was a nickname for the female genitalia. Libellous, huh?
Another common explanation is that it represents a simpler time in Kane's
life - his childhood. At his death, Kane is thinking of the road not
taken when he inherited his fortune. Personally, I think Rosebud is the
biggest McGuffin in cinematic history. Reducing Citizen Kane down to the
quest for Rosebud is as pointless as the reporter's quest to understand a
man's life by his last utterance.
Anyway, enough rambling, suffice to say Citizen Kane is one of those
films of which I never tire.
Regards,
Jamie F.
ajr...@freenet.vancouver.bc.ca
Ed Stephan
>all. What do others think of this movie? And what do you think
>is the meaning of Rosebud (I know WHAT it is, but what does it
>symbolize?)
You'll find a VERY interesting interpretation under "trivia" if you look
up that movie at the internet movie database:
http://www.msstate.edu/Movies/
Ed
The Rink
>best American movie. My prof thinks Citizen Kane is the best
>American movie.
I took a films course, and he said that many people used to call it "the
best German movie of all time," because, while it's American-made, it bears
way more resemblance to German films of the time than Hollywood.
At any rate, I think it's safe to narrow down "the greatest American film
of all time" to ONE of those two, but saying which becomes a bit of a
problem. Even my own personal vote changes from one to the other at times.
(Although my *favorite* is always Casablanca, no matter what.)
>I saw it for the first time last week and I must
>admit it is a great movie, technically, and narratively. I don't
>know if it is the best American movie because I haven't seen them
>all.
:-D :-D That's a fresh insight on the subject. I like it.
--
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Samuel Stoddard ____| |____ s...@kepler.unh.edu
\_______ |___ ___| _______/
\__________ | | __________/
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\____ |__| ____/
Peter Reiher
>>Well, someone mentioned that their prof though Casablanca was the
>>best American movie. My prof thinks Citizen Kane is the best
>>American movie.
>
>I took a films course, and he said that many people used to call it "the
>best German movie of all time," because, while it's American-made, it bears
>way more resemblance to German films of the time than Hollywood.
How well did that professor know German films? The German films of
the thirties and forties I know about (with the possible exception of
Leni Reifenstahl's documentaries) bear no resemblence whatsoever to
"Citizen Kane." German films of the 30s and 40s are mostly escapist
junk, with much craft and little artistry. Now, German films of the 20s,
before Hitler & Co. had driven out the most talented of Germany's directors
(well, Hollywood money had something to do with it, too), have strong
resemblences to "Citizen Kane." But the lessons of those films had
been incorporated into American film long before Welles thought of going
to Hollywood.
It's worth remembering that the film that Welles watched over and over
and over to learn how to make movies was the very, very American
"Stagecoach." I personally believe Ford learned a bit about lighting
from Murnau and Lang, but Welles probably got the Americanized version
of the art through Ford, Hawks, and their brethren.
--
Peter Reiher
rei...@wells.cs.ucla.edu
<http://ficus-www.cs.ucla.edu/project-members/reiher/home_page.html>
The Rink
>>best German movie of all time," because, while it's American-made, it bears
>>way more resemblance to German films of the time than Hollywood.
>
>the thirties and forties I know about (with the possible exception of
>Leni Reifenstahl's documentaries) bear no resemblence whatsoever to
>"Citizen Kane." German films of the 30s and 40s are mostly escapist
>junk, with much craft and little artistry. Now, German films of the 20s,
>before Hitler & Co. had driven out the most talented of Germany's directors
>(well, Hollywood money had something to do with it, too), have strong
>resemblences to "Citizen Kane." But the lessons of those films had
>been incorporated into American film long before Welles thought of going
>to Hollywood.
I don't know what the "mainstream" German film was when, but that's not
what I, or the originator of that quote, whoever it was, was talking about.
Generally speaking, critics and appreciators of art tend to ignore the
mainstream. Citizen Kane is hardly a mainstream film, and the old artsy
German films did, in fact, bear a resemblance to it. Expressionism
originated in Germany, covering essentially all the fine arts, and film
is no exception. The humourous quote, "Citizen Kane -- the best German
film of all time" is used to link Citizen Kane with the STRONG expressionist
styles used within it. You're right; German film declined after the 20s,
but as I say, you don't get off making realistic comparisons between
Citizen Kane and mainstream escapist flicks.
I must disagree with you about Germany's influence on mainstream American
film, however. The "lessons" of German expressionist film never appeared
in the typical glamorous Hollywood movie. Those techniques of filmmaking
never did enter into the traditional, typical, and/or mainstream "style"
of American film. For better or for worse, Hollywood has always been more
of a never never land. Even when it addresses serious topics, it hardly
ever does so with such abstract, symbolic, and gloomy nature of German
expressionism. Citizen Kane was almost a fluke -- it was a unique film
that cut across the grain of the American mainstream, made by an individual
with enough power and talent to pull it off. Besides Orson Welles, you'd
be hard pressed to find another *American* filmmaker with such an
expressionist influence -- and should you find one, you'd be all the more
pressed to find a third, and so forth. Citizen Kane is technically American,
but utilizes almost no American techniques. An analogy could be made to
Mary Cassatt, an American-born French Impressionist painter.
>It's worth remembering that the film that Welles watched over and over
>and over to learn how to make movies was the very, very American
>"Stagecoach." I personally believe Ford learned a bit about lighting
>from Murnau and Lang, but Welles probably got the Americanized version
>of the art through Ford, Hawks, and their brethren.
Not to make light of Ford and Hawks -- I personally believe them to be
great artists and I *enjoy* their films more than Welles' -- but I find it
hard to believe Welles could have learned all that much from them. Orson
Welles is what he was frequently termed -- the "boy genius," and while I
believe even geniuses need instruction, the difference between a genius
and an ordinary artist is that his own ingeniuty is more of an influence
on himself than those around him. Welles may have taken any number of
individual techniques from others, but look at how he used them! Does
Citizen Kane bear any resemblance at all to Stagecoach? In lighting?
Possibly some, but it's obvious Welles extended the concepts himself and
developed them. Individual techniques aren't even the issue -- it's how
and when they are used, how the entire film is pieced together, and most
importantly, the least Hollywoodish element of all -- the plot. Tell me
plot similarities between Citizen Kane and Stagecoach, if you can.
--
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| Samuel Stoddard a.k.a. The Rink | "God is light...God is love." 1 John |
| University of New Hampshire |----------------------------------------
------------------------------------| Freedom is not the right to do what |
| Love is giving to the basic needs | we want but the power to do what we |
| of another without the motive of | ought. |
| personal gain. ___________________|_s...@kepler.unh.edu____________________|