Your Favorite Revolutionary War Film/Mini-Series
Alls Quiet
bloody and drawn-out the southern campaigns (if you can call them
campaigns) were, but too gory. I liked John Adams on HBO;
unfortunately the best thing about it was its theme song. Lots of
boring stretches. Into the West's theme music has to be the best ever,
and despite its negative reviews, it's a very memorable, if not
totally Revolutionary War, series.
I remember when The Patriot came out, Roger Ebert and other critics
remarking that there weren't many films about the Revolutionary War.
Anyway, I'd choose The President's Lady as my favorite, from way back
in the 60's, if Andrew Jackson wasn't such a bastard.
foggytown
I always liked "1776" but haven't seen it anywhere for a long time.
Bill Anderson
>
> I remember when The Patriot came out, Roger Ebert and other critics
> remarking that there weren't many films about the Revolutionary War.
> Anyway, I'd choose The President's Lady as my favorite, from way back
> in the 60's, if Andrew Jackson wasn't such a bastard.
Is that the one where Andy gets in a time machine and rides a horse
through every Middlesex village and farm yelling, "The British Are Coming?"
--
Bill Anderson
I am the Mighty Favog
Marv Soloff
I have a copy of "1776" and also like it. Unfortunately, the music is
quite forgettable and that dims the entire production.
Marv
tomcervo
Actually, Jackson was a youth in the militia at the end of the
Revolution. There's a folk tale that he was slashed with a sword by a
British soldier for a piece of insolence.
tomcervo
> The Patriot was way too gory. Probably very realistic, considering how
> bloody and drawn-out the southern campaigns (if you can call them
> campaigns) were, but too gory.
Nope. It's garbage:
http://www.nytimes.com/2000/07/01/opinion/hubris-but-no-history.html?n=Top%2FReference%2FTimes%20Topics%2FSubjects%2FM%2FMotion%20Pictures
> I liked John Adams on HBO;
> unfortunately the best thing about it was its theme song. Lots of
> boring stretches.
Politics and reality are like that. It's a lot better than "The
Patriot".
> Into the West's theme music has to be the best ever,
> and despite its negative reviews, it's a very memorable, if not
> totally Revolutionary War, series.
Just before the Bicentennial, PBS ran a series called "Decades of
Decision", a series of short dramas about the Revolution. They were
professionally done and some were very well written, and for some
reason, are not in the IMBD. For that reason here's a list I've been
compiling. They're worth looking for if you're really interested.
Decades of Decision: The American Revolution
12-Part Series, 1975
1. Mary Kate's War
The conflict that arose when Mary Katherine Goddard, a publisher,
refused to reveal the author of a satirical look at the British. 25m
2. Equally Free
In May 1776, members of the Virginia Convention at Williamsburg
propose that the Continental Congress declare the colonies free and
independent states, George Mason's first draft of Virginia's
resolution initiates a dispute over the rights of slaves. The
philosophical and practical implications of the issue are debated
until a compromise is reached. 21m
3. Not Worth a Continental
The winter of 1777-1778 finds the British comfortably entrenched in
Philadelphia while the Continental army suffers at Valley Forge. A
Continental foraging party finds a farm mother and her three children
with hidden stores of food. By rights, the soldiers can confiscate the
food, but whose need should come first? 22m
4. Black Winter
November of 1776 finds General Washington's army in full retreat after
the loss of Long Island and New York. Private Dempsey's short
enlistment is almost over and he wants to go home. Washington calls
for reenlistments. As midnight of the last day of his enlistment
approaches, Dempsey must decide--reenlist or return home. 22m
5. King's Mountain 28m
After the victory at King's Mountain, militiamen take revenge on
captured Tories, despite their colonel's efforts to obtain justice .
6. Songs of Molasses 23m
7. Cry Riot 33m
This documentary video looks at the Stamp Act and the opposition by
Samuel Adams.
8. In All Cases Whatsoever 35m
9. Look Back in Sorrow 18m
10. The Making of a Rebel
Washington is an Englishman first and a Virginian second, but he
suspects that compromise with the crown may be impossible and so he
supports a demonstration against closing of the port of Boston. 29m
11. The People Vs. Job Shattuck 31m
Shay's Rebellion--This video profiles the march to Concord Courthouse
by debt-ridden farmers, intent on halting foreclosures.
Alls Quiet
>
> Actually, Jackson was a youth in the militia at the end of the
> Revolution. There's a folk tale that he was slashed with a sword by a
> British soldier for a piece of insolence.
He was a youth, yeah, but it was his chutzpah in the war that got him
a reputation, that got him Rachel.
Alls Quiet
> I have a copy of "1776" and also like it. Unfortunately, the music is
> quite forgettable and that dims the entire production.
You're kidding, right? 1776 has some of the best numbers of any post-
Rogers and Hammerstein (et al) era musical.
It's the dialogue that's weird, dated, and embarrassing.
Derek Janssen
>>
>> I remember when The Patriot came out, Roger Ebert and other critics
>> remarking that there weren't many films about the Revolutionary War.
There must be, because posters are still mentioning it whenever they try
to come up
(And watch, we'll get someone "helpfully" mentioning that goofy Al
Pacino one in 3...2...)
Still came off as "Gladiator II", though, right down to the same plot
points--Mel and Russell seem to be comparing narcissist action-martyr notes.
>> Anyway, I'd choose The President's Lady as my favorite, from way back
>> in the 60's, if Andrew Jackson wasn't such a bastard.
>
> I always liked "1776" but haven't seen it anywhere for a long time.
You just haven't looked:
http://www.deepdiscount.com/viewproduct.htm?productId=5742054
(Even though this's the "restored" version with the downbeat ending.)
To get us off of auto-default Mel Gibson and Al Pacino, there's also
A&E's two good entries:
http://www.netflix.com/Movie/The_Crossing/60025564
http://www.netflix.com/Movie/Benedict_Arnold_A_Question_of_Honor/60025563
(While I'll leave it to less imaginative folks to bring up the HBO "John
Adams" miniseries--
Which devotes one episode to a more real-world spin on "1776", with a
more historically accurate explanation for why John Dickinson was such a
douchebag...) ;)
Derek Janssen
eja...@verizon.net
Derek Janssen
>
> Just before the Bicentennial, PBS ran a series called "Decades of
> Decision", a series of short dramas about the Revolution.
And more recently,
http://www.netflix.com/Movie/Liberty_The_American_Revolution/70000932
(Although
http://www.netflix.com/Movie/Founding_Fathers_The_Men_who_Shaped_Our_Nation/60030367
covered the same territory, but not as well.)
And for those who want to move on to 1812, there is
http://www.netflix.com/Movie/The_History_Channel_Presents_The_War_of_1812/70020071
Derek Janssen (the year Britain kicked our hinders)
eja...@verizon.net
Marv Soloff
OK, sing a couple of the numbers.
Marv
Derek Janssen
tomcervo
> foggytown wrote:
>
> >> I remember when The Patriot came out, Roger Ebert and other critics
> >> remarking that there weren't many films about the Revolutionary War.
>
> There must be, because posters are still mentioning it whenever they try
> to come up
> (And watch, we'll get someone "helpfully" mentioning that goofy Al
> Pacino one in 3...2...)
>
> Still came off as "Gladiator II", though, right down to the same plot
> points--Mel and Russell seem to be comparing narcissist action-martyr notes.
>
> >> Anyway, I'd choose The President's Lady as my favorite, from way back
> >> in the 60's, if Andrew Jackson wasn't such a bastard.
>
> > I always liked "1776" but haven't seen it anywhere for a long time.
>
> You just haven't looked:http://www.deepdiscount.com/viewproduct.htm?productId=5742054
> (Even though this's the "restored" version with the downbeat ending.)
>
> To get us off of auto-default Mel Gibson and Al Pacino, there's also
>
> (While I'll leave it to less imaginative folks to bring up the HBO "John
> Adams" miniseries--
> Which devotes one episode to a more real-world spin on "1776", with a
> more historically accurate explanation for why John Dickinson was such a
> douchebag...) �;)
I realize that while getting your history through musical comedies is
a vaild concept in some circles, you DID catch that bit at the end
where Dickinson showed up in uniform? Nearly all of those signatories
went home afterwards. Dickinson went to fight. Jefferson may have
gotten the good songs, but when the British invaded Virginia he
distinguished himself by riding the fastest horse in town OUT of town.
Marv Soloff
The only song I can remember from "1776" is Washington's plaintive call:
"Is anybody there - does anybody care?"
Marv
sirblob2
minnie and moskovitz
Dave in Toronto
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0094673/#comment - based on the Howard
Fast novel. It's a thoughful look at the lives of the people involved
and showed it was not quite the clear-cut bad guys against the good
guys struggle as portrayed in movies like _ THE PATRIOT_.
An interesting (but sometimes confusing one) is John Ford's _DRUMS
ALONG THE MOHAWK_. The settlers are battling the British, French.
various Indian tribes and each other. The British are never referred
to by nationally (it wouldn't have made sense at that time) but simply
as The Tories. What adds the confusion is the raising of the Stars
and Stripes at the end to the rousing strains of "My Country is of
thee" which happens to have the same melody as the British national
anthem.
A small trivia point about the revolution - Paul Revere never said
"The British are coming" what he said was something like "The regulars
are on the move."
Dave in Toronto
David Oberman
David Oberman
>The only song I can remember from "1776" is Washington's plaintive call:
>"Is anybody there - does anybody care?"
I didn't even remember that much.
It's tone-deaf revisionism that has elevated the "1776" score to its
current status.
What's next for "reappraisal"? Leslie Bricusse?
Tom
There are many, but the one I remember fondly is April Morning with
Tommy Lee Jones and Robert Urich.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0094673/
Tom
Tom
Tune in to TCM tomorrow...
http://www.tcm.com/schedule/index.jsp?startDate=7/4/2009&timezone=EST&cid=N
1776 is on at 10:15 EDT, 9:15 CDT.
Tom
Tom
> Derek Janssen wrote:
> > Marv Soloff wrote:
> >> Alls Quiet wrote:
> >>> On Jul 3, 7:54 am, Marv Soloff <msol...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> >>>> I have a copy of "1776" and also like it. Unfortunately, the music is
> >>>> quite forgettable and that dims the entire production.
>
> >>> You're kidding, right? 1776 has some of the best numbers of any post-
> >>> Rogers and Hammerstein (et al) era musical.
>
> >>> It's the dialogue that's weird, dated, and embarrassing.
>
> >> OK, sing a couple of the numbers.
>
> > SIT DOWN, MARV!
> > SIT DOWN, MARV!
> > FOR GOD'S SAKES, MARV...SIT DOWN!
>
> > Derek Janssen
>
> The only song I can remember from "1776" is Washington's plaintive call:
> "Is anybody there - does anybody care?"
>
> Marv
Vo-ote YES! Vo-ote YES!
Vote yes for independency!
Great song!
Tom
Alls Quiet
Mamma Look Sharp was fine. 'Til Then wasn't bad either. If you're
going to criticize a musical for being overly theatrical...well,
that's why I don't go to musicals anymore. The geek-factor is built-
in, at least to modern ones.
Marv Soloff
Never made the charts nor was released as a single.
Marv
Derek Janssen
> On Jul 3, 10:08 am, Marv Soloff <msol...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> Derek Janssen wrote:
>>> Marv Soloff wrote:
>>>> Alls Quiet wrote:
>>>>> On Jul 3, 7:54 am, Marv Soloff <msol...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>>> I have a copy of "1776" and also like it. Unfortunately, the music is
>>>>>> quite forgettable and that dims the entire production.
>>>>> You're kidding, right? 1776 has some of the best numbers of any post-
>>>>> Rogers and Hammerstein (et al) era musical.
>>>>> It's the dialogue that's weird, dated, and embarrassing.
>>>> OK, sing a couple of the numbers
>>>>
>>>> Mr. Janssen, I say you should sing them,
>>>> With your trivia you like us to annoy,
...Well, that's true.
>>>>Whereas if I were the one to do it, they'd run their keyboard through it;
>>>>I'm obnoxious and disliked, you silly boy.
(I never knew.) 9_9
>>>>So I say you should sing them, Derek, yes, you--
Not me, Marvin...
>>>>Yes, you, Mr. Janssen, you!
But--
>>>>You!
But--
>>>>You!
Buuuuut....
Mr. Soloff, dear Mr. Soloff,
I watch a lot, and I cannot recall my three last films,
I have no tolerance for frenzied or for loud, fast films,
So I prefer to post the past on r.a.m.past-films.
> Vo-ote YES! Vo-ote YES!
>
> Vote yes for independency!
Derek Janssen (opening up a window) :)
eja...@verizon.net
foggytown
would make a meal out of Stan Freburg's history of the United States
(vol 1). Well, it never happened but I just know it would have been
the most memorable Revolutionary War film ever.
Now who do I imagine delivering the line, "Hmmm . . . . . ruined a
good Kaywoodie there!" Had to have been Edward Fox.
A.Gerard
That had Barry Bostwick, Patty Duke, Jaclyn Smith and a traditional
all-star cast (Lloyd Bridges, Jose Ferrer, James Mason, Robert Stack,
Hal Holbrook, and a young Kelsey Grammer as a French-Indian War
British soldier). That series covered the Battles of Brooklyn Heights,
Trenton, Monmouth, and Yorktown. Bostwick and Duke also appeared in
GEORGE WASHINGTON: THE FOUNDING OF A NATION, with Jeffrey Jones as
Thomas Jefferson.
Interesting connections...
William Daniels played both John Adams (in 1776 and his Voice for
A&E's THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION) and John Quincy Adams (in THE ADAMS
CHRONICLES). Kelsey Grammer portrayed both Benedict Arnold (His voice
in AMERICAN REVOLUTION) and Washington (in an A&E Benedict Arnold
movie).
1776's Martha Jefferson-Blythe Danner's husband Bruce Paltrow produced
series starring her 1776 co-stars William Daniels (ST. ELSEWHERE) and
Ken Howard (THE WHITE SHADOW).
tomcervo
> An interesting (but sometimes confusing one) is John Ford's _DRUMS
> ALONG THE MOHAWK_. �The settlers are battling the British, French.
> various Indian tribes and each other.
Er, no. It's the local Loyalists/Tories against the local Patriots/
Whigs. The Battle of Oriskany may have been proportionally the
bloodiest battle of the Revolution and few of the men in it were
"British"; their homes were in New York. Likewise the war on the
Mohawk Valley frontier lasted 1777 to 1781, continously longer than
any other theatre.
> �The British are never referred to by nationally (it wouldn't have made sense at that time) but simply
> as The Tories.
Most of the Mohawk Valley settlers were German Palatines and Dutch.
>�What adds the confusion is the raising of the Stars
> and Stripes at the end to the rousing strains of "My Country is of
> thee" which happens to have the same melody as the British national
> anthem.
Hollywood. They took a very good, very accurate novel about a hard-
fought frontier war and turned it into a vehicle for Claudette
Colbert--you wouldn't know she was playing an 18-year-old farm girl if
you hadn't read the book. Ford did what he could, but Zanuck was in
charge.
David Oberman
>What, no mention of the 1984 CBS-TV mini-series GEORGE WASHINGTON?
>That had Barry Bostwick, Patty Duke, Jaclyn Smith and a traditional
>all-star cast (Lloyd Bridges, Jose Ferrer, James Mason, Robert Stack,
>Hal Holbrook, and a young Kelsey Grammer as a French-Indian War
>British soldier).
I was busy watching the 1978 TV miniseries THE BASTARD with Tom
Bosley, Andrew Stevens, Buddy Ebsen, Lorne Greene, Olivia Hussey,
Harry Morgan, Patricia Neal, Eleanor Parker, William Shatner, & Barry
Sullivan.
Michael O'Connor
tomcervo
I think I saw the promo for that on SCTV. Only it was Dave Thomas
jumping up and down on a couch, giggling like a maniac, and they
called it THE SILLY BASTARD.
Alls Quiet
> What, no mention of the 1984 CBS-TV mini-series GEORGE WASHINGTON?
> That had Barry Bostwick, Patty Duke, Jaclyn Smith and a traditional
> all-star cast (Lloyd Bridges, Jose Ferrer, James Mason, Robert Stack,
> Hal Holbrook, and a young Kelsey Grammer as a French-Indian War
> British soldier). That series covered the Battles of Brooklyn Heights,
> Trenton, Monmouth, and Yorktown. Bostwick and Duke also appeared in
> GEORGE WASHINGTON: THE FOUNDING OF A NATION, with Jeffrey Jones as
> Thomas Jefferson.
Forgot about that one. I didn't realize it paid such attention to the
military campaigns. David Morse as Washington in "John Adams" (HBO)
might have been more realistic. *Might* have been. But his portrayal
left the impression Washington was an inarticulate hayseed.
> Interesting connections...
> William Daniels played both John Adams (in 1776 and his Voice for
> A&E's THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION) and John Quincy Adams (in THE ADAMS
> CHRONICLES). Kelsey Grammer portrayed both Benedict Arnold (His voice
> in AMERICAN REVOLUTION) and Washington (in an A&E Benedict Arnold
> movie).
> 1776's Martha Jefferson-Blythe Danner's husband Bruce Paltrow produced
> series starring her 1776 co-stars William Daniels (ST. ELSEWHERE) and
> Ken Howard (THE WHITE SHADOW).
Of these four, Ken Howard's voice is the only one I can stand. I hear
the other three, and I run.
tomcervo
> On Jul 3, 7:15�pm, "A.Gerard" <angm...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > What, no mention of the 1984 CBS-TV mini-series GEORGE WASHINGTON?
> > That had Barry Bostwick, Patty Duke, Jaclyn Smith and a traditional
> > all-star cast (Lloyd Bridges, Jose Ferrer, James Mason, Robert Stack,
> > Hal Holbrook, and a young Kelsey Grammer as a French-Indian War
> > British soldier). That series covered the Battles of Brooklyn Heights,
> > Trenton, Monmouth, and Yorktown. Bostwick and Duke also appeared in
> > GEORGE WASHINGTON: THE FOUNDING OF A NATION, with Jeffrey Jones as
> > Thomas Jefferson.
>
> Forgot about that one. I didn't realize it paid such attention to the
> military campaigns. David Morse as Washington in "John Adams" (HBO)
> might have been more realistic. *Might* have been. But his portrayal
> left the impression Washington was an inarticulate hayseed.
You got that from the first ep or two. Gradually Morse's Washington
was revealed as a brave, quiet man of unshakable good sense and
integrity. I enjoyed Jefferson's gradual revelation as a good talker
and writer, but weirder as time went on. Adams thought of him as a
friend because of all the experiences they had shared, but a strange
friend.
Dave in Toronto
Thanks for the corrections, I did both read the book and see the movie
but that was a long time ago. I think I was getting _Drums Along the
Mohawk_ a little confused with _Northwest Passage_ which I saw at
about the same time.
Dave in Toronto
john smith
tomcervo
http://www.slate.com/id/1005493/
Griffith's "America" barely made a profit.
Then there's "Revolution," dubbed by Harkness "the movie Hugh Hudson
was born to make".
It's a hard subject--action enfused with political thought usually is.
"The Patriot" avoided all that by being set in a parallel universe.
Alls Quiet
You're right. There was nothing "wrong" about Morse's portrayal. Heck,
he was so good, he was Abe Lincoln in that unforgettable PBS "docu-
mini-series" Abraham and Mary Lincoln.
I'm glad someone agrees that Jefferson got weirder as time went on.
The actor who played him either intentionally or by direction made him
slightly menacing. How Americans of any era could have perceived this
wino-spendthrift-whoremaster to be anything but, I'll never get.
Alls Quiet
> It's a hard subject--action enfused with political thought usually is.
> "The Patriot" avoided all that by being set in a parallel universe.
Parallel universe? Yesterday, at a commemoration of one of the
bloodiest northern battles, I talked with a re-enacter about The
Patriot. He said Mel Gibson's "The Reader"-like story about torching
of innocents in a church was fiction, and that the British as well as
Indians had a history of not killing or torturing women and children;
and that lots of British and Continental military leaders ended up as
friends.
Whether or not he's right, I'd hardly see the film as being out-
landish.
tomcervo
> Whether or not he's right, I'd hardly see the film as being out-
> landish.
He's right.
"Hubris, But No History
By David Hackett Fischer
Despite terrific pacing and beautiful costumes and photography,
something has gone wrong in ''The Patriot,'' the new Mel Gibson movie
about the American Revolution. Signs of trouble appear in the idyllic
opening scenes. Mr. Gibson plays a reluctant hero named Benjamin
Martin, a widower with seven perfect children, a ''Gone with the
Wind'' plantation and a work force of free and happy Black Folk who
toil in his fields as volunteers.
Then the plot unfolds. We learn that Martin was the hero of an earlier
Indian war, but he decides to sit out the War of Independence until
the villainous British Colonel Tavlington (who somewhat resembles the
real-life British officer Banastre Tarleton) burns his plantation,
carries off the happy Black Folk, kills one of his children and
threatens to hang another.
Martin impulsively decides to fight, mainly for revenge against
Tavlington, and wins the war more or less single-handedly. With a
little assistance from George Washington, Nathaniel Greene and Light
Horse Harry Lee, and a lot of help from his long-suffering sons and
neighbors, Martin reforms American tactics, defeats General Cornwallis
and sets up the British surrender at Yorktown.
The film purports to be a history of the American Revolution. Its Web
site tells us that the characters are ''loosely based'' on fact. How
loosely might that be?
In short, ''The Patriot'' is to history as Godzilla was to biology.
Egregious errors appear in every scene. . . . "
It gets worse from there. And look up one of Fischer's books about the
Revolution before you think of slagging him as a revisionist--whatever
that is. There's also this, from a contemporary discussion in this
group:
Dragan Antulov:
"The Patriot, IMNSHO, owes less to American tradition and more to so-
called Partisan films that used to be the rage in former Yugoslavia
before the break-up. Those movies treated so-called “People’s
Liberation War of 1941-45” (WW2 in former Yugoslavia) in the same way
The Patriot treats ARW. The characters, situations, their dilemmas and
actions are almost identical - heroic American guerillas act as
Partisans, British act as Nazis, Adam Baldwin’s act as “home
traitors”, conservative citizenry is equally clueless as
“bourgeoisie”, French are late to help same as clueless “Anglo-
American allies”, racial equality is equally noble agenda as “new
society of socialism”, and even Mel Gibson looks very much like
Ljubisa Samardzic in his early days . . . To make things even more
interesting, distinction between Tom Wilkinson’s gentleman general
Cornwallis and Jason Isaac’s genocidal thug Tavington is also taken
from Partisan films and their distinction between gentlemanly
Wehrmacht officers (usually played by late Peter Carsten) and
genocidal SS/Gestapo thugs (usually played by Slovenian actors like
Stevo Zigon and Radko Polic).
Interestingly enough, for some unspecified reasons such films were
very popular in West Germany and it is not inconceivable that Roland
Emmerich found much of the inspiration for The Patriot in them. This
makes the attribution of an actual SS massacre in France 1944, to
South Carolina 1781, more comprehensible. It also indicates just how
little The Patriot has to do with American History."
And who can forget the bucket? From Curzio Malaparte’s memoir
"Kaputt" .
While he spoke I gazed at a wicker basket on the Poglanik’s desk. The
lid was raised and the basket seemed to be filled with mussels, or
shelled oysters—as they are occasionally displayed in the windows of
Fortnum and Mason in Piccadilly in London. Casertano looked at me and
winked, “Would you like a nice oyster stew?”
“Are they Dalmatian oysters?” I asked the Poglanik.
Ante Pavelic removed the lid from the basket and revealed the mussels,
that sticky and jelly-like mass, and he said smiling, with that tired
good-natured smile of his, “It is a present from my loyal Ustashis.
Forty pounds of human eyes.”
The Ustachi were Croatian fascists, serving with the Nazis.
Malaparte's memoirs are quite imaginative, but the story was his,
until someone else moved it to the Carolina backcountry.
The people from the Smithsonian who were there as technical advisors
saw what was happening, and tried to intercede, but nobody tells Mel
what to do.
David Oberman
>The people from the Smithsonian who were there as technical advisors
>saw what was happening, and tried to intercede, but nobody tells Mel
>what to do.
Why should historians tell filmmakers how to make a movie?
I never saw THE PATRIOT, but if it's bad, it's bad as film, not
history.
tomcervo
The subject header has something to do with it: "Your Favorite
Revolutionary War Film/Mini-Series Options "
And I called it "Parallel Universe History".
But purely as a movie, it's based on Gibson's usual self-regarding
ethic which assumes that his mere involvement with a project assures
its importance. If your standard of historical adventure action
picture is "The Buccaneer", you'll love it. But if you think the world
has taken a spin or two since 1938, or even 1958, make sure you rent
another movie that night or you're going to be stuck with cable. It's
garbage.
David Oberman
>But purely as a movie, it's based on Gibson's usual self-regarding
>ethic which assumes that his mere involvement with a project assures
>its importance.
If he'd only throw in some sex, Gibson would be the contemporary Cecil
B. De Mille.
Derek Janssen
No, it's more a case of Gibson and Russell Crowe trying to out-crucify
each other's "hero" roles--
Particularly as "Patriot" seems to follow "Gladiator"'s scriptline plot
point for plot point (family man war hero returns to idyllic farm, sees
farm and family destroyed by social-climbing baddie, goes underground to
become mythic Man of the People, and gives SCB increasingly personal
heebie-jeebies to the point that they duke it out personally in
skip-frame cinematography), with breeches substituted for togas.
And about as historically accurate in either chase.
Derek Janssen
eja...@verizon.net
tomcervo
> Particularly as "Patriot" seems to follow "Gladiator"'s scriptline plot
> point for plot point (family man war hero returns to idyllic farm, sees
> farm and family destroyed by social-climbing baddie, goes underground to
> become mythic Man of the People, and gives SCB increasingly personal
> heebie-jeebies to the point that they duke it out personally in
> skip-frame cinematography), with breeches substituted for togas.
> And about as historically accurate in either chase.
>
Now that you mention it, "Master and Commander" seems a bit pallid
with Crowe playing a naval officer motivated by duty and
professionalism, rather than enraged revenge. Elvis Mitchell defined
Gibson's formula for action success as Make Mel Mad. But when you see
it in picture after picture, you recall the Cagney parody:
"You gave it to my mother, you gave it to my sister, now I'm gonna
give it to you."
Alls Quiet
>
> Now that you mention it, "Master and Commander" seems a bit pallid
> with Crowe playing a naval officer motivated by duty and
> professionalism, rather than enraged revenge. Elvis Mitchell defined
> Gibson's formula for action success as Make Mel Mad. But when you see
> it in picture after picture, you recall the Cagney parody:
> "You gave it to my mother, you gave it to my sister, now I'm gonna
> give it to you."
Speaking of which, wasn't there supposed to be a sequel to Master and
Commander, made fast because of how successful it was?
Marv Soloff
Peter Weir's "Master And Commander" (2003, in my opinion, is a well made
sea story in the "Hornblower" mold. Couple of gripes: If you are going
to play string instruments at sea you are never going to keep them in
tune due to the humidity. Then again, Weir tacks on the trick ending
which is cool (and opens up the possibility of a sequel). I have not
read any of the Patrick O'Brian novels - which I understand are
rigorously researched and well written - but I really want some
courageous producer to go back to the Horatio Hornblower canon and make
a series of films (miniseries) based on C.S. Forester's superb stories.
The recent series with Ioan Gruffudd just doesn't cut it for me.
Marv
tomcervo
> Peter Weir's "Master And Commander" (2003, in my opinion, is a well made
> sea story in the "Hornblower" mold. Couple of gripes: If you are going
> to play string instruments at sea you are never going to keep them in
> tune due to the humidity. Then again, Weir tacks on the trick ending
> which is cool (and opens up the possibility of a sequel). I have not
> read any of the Patrick O'Brian novels - which I understand are
> rigorously researched and well written - but I really want some
> courageous producer to go back to the Horatio Hornblower canon and make
> a series of films (miniseries) based on C.S. Forester's superb stories.
I started reading O'Brian a long time before they started publishing
him in the US, and I got over him a long time before the movie.
British reviewers noted a while ago that he started writing the same
novel again and again, and that his characterizations became static
about halfway through the series. He is a good writer and he marshals
the historical detail well, but the earlier novels before the 90's are
better.
The movie was very well done, but the static characters were there
then; no need of a sequel because you only needed to see the original
again. Forester isn't half the stylist that O'Brian is, but he knows
how to tell a story. I enjoy as well his ability to create an original
story, instead of rewriting The Naval Chronicle. Stephen Taylor's
"Storm and Conquest" retells the story O'Brian used for "The Mauritius
Command", and it's obvious that the really dramatic element in that is
the story of Richard Corbett, but O'Brian can only use him as a small
sub-plot because he's writing serial fiction. Compare that to
Forester's completely original plotting in "The Happy Return"--more
story, and drama, than any three of O'Brian's later output.
> The recent series with Ioan Gruffudd just doesn't cut it for me.
One of the things that convinced me that modern British TV writers
don't know how to write action anymore. You barely recognized the
novel's plot for the melodrama plastered over it, and Forester's irony
was almost completely lost--God knows what they would have done with
"The African Queen". Then Paul McGann shows up as Bush, and I realised
that HE was the perfect casting for Hornblower.
Magnus, Robot Fighter
wrote:
>Derek Janssen wrote:
>> Marv Soloff wrote:
>>> Alls Quiet wrote:
>>>> On Jul 3, 7:54 am, Marv Soloff <msol...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I have a copy of "1776" and also like it. Unfortunately, the music is
>>>>> quite forgettable and that dims the entire production.
>>>>
>>>> You're kidding, right? 1776 has some of the best numbers of any post-
>>>> Rogers and Hammerstein (et al) era musical.
>>>>
>>>> It's the dialogue that's weird, dated, and embarrassing.
>>>
>>> OK, sing a couple of the numbers.
>>
>> SIT DOWN, MARV!
>> SIT DOWN, MARV!
>> FOR GOD'S SAKES, MARV...SIT DOWN!
>>
>> Derek Janssen
>
>The only song I can remember from "1776" is Washington's plaintive call:
>"Is anybody there - does anybody care?"
>
>Marv
err..."Something...for...rum...for men..." or something. Saw it on
stage. Quite liked it.
Cindy Hamilton
The movie was released in 1972. Rock and pop music had already
devoured American taste. A quick look at the top 100 singles
for 1972 reveals only two songs that could even remotely be considered
show tunes: The Candy Man by Sammy Davis at #5, and Day by
Day from Godspell at #90.
How far back would you have to go, I wonder, to see what you expect:
a show tune be released as a single and make the charts?
Perhaps if they'd released it four years later, it might have been
swept
up in the bicentennial mania and had a chance.
Cindy Hamilton
Marv Soloff
Try "Memories" from "Cats".
Marv
Invid Fan
<mso...@verizon.net> wrote:
Also "One Night in Bangcock" from Chess, although that's naturally more
a pop/rock song then a traditional show tune.
--
Chris Mack *quote under construction*
'Invid Fan'
Tom
So what? You didn't ask for Top of the Pops.
Tom
Ray Faiola
Cindy Hamilton
I thought we were talking about movies, not Broadway shows.
Cindy Hamilton
Marv Soloff
"1776" started as a Broadway show.
Marv
Invid Fan
<mso...@verizon.net> wrote:
> Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> > I thought we were talking about movies, not Broadway shows.
> >
> > Cindy Hamilton
>
> "1776" started as a Broadway show.
>
And most songs from musicals will hit radio when the stage album is
released, not when the later movie is.
Cindy Hamilton
I realize that. However, since this is rec.arts.movies.past-films,
and the
subject is "Your Favorite Revolutionary War Film/Mini-Series", I
confined
myself to considering the year that 1776 was released as a film, and
considering show tunes from films. Otherwise, it's apples and
oranges.
Personally, I favor Molasses to Rum to Slaves. It certainly is more
challenging
than Surrey with the Fringe on Top.
Cindy Hamilton
Tom
But aren't we talking about movies and mini-series?
Tom
tomcervo
>
> But aren't we talking about movies and mini-series?
>
That's how it started, yes. But every topic in rec.arts.movies.past-
films eventually comes around to show tunes. It's in the terms of use--
didn't you read it?