movies you're supposed to like but don't
Joshua Wolf
think about those movies you have great expectations for but watch and just
shrug and go "eh". Not easy targets like "Star Wars: TPM" and "Gladiator",
but those movies that are "critics darlings".
Two I've been thinking about lately are "American Beauty" and "Suspiria". I
just threw in "Fight Club" last night and started thinking about how much of
a better take on the same subject it was than "American Beauty", which I
found well done but predictable and unoriginal.
As for "Suspiria", I rented it recently after reading everyone over at
Amazon getting worked into a frenzy about how it was the greatest horror
movie ever. Yeah, yeah, it was well done, but it's ultimately still a cheesy
B-horror flick. I just can't disregard basic things like plot and acting.
Oooh, and "Clerks" (and just about any Kevin Smith movie except "Chasing
Amy"). More clever than good/funny, I think, and he's incapable of bringing
good performances from mediocre actors. Unfortunately, this view makes me
feel like a pariah among my twentysomething peers.
josh
nom...@webtv.net
Next2TheMoon
roulette scene is fantastic.
SAVING PRIVATE RYAN: The beach landing was great. Too bad there's two hours of
crap before and after it.
CLERKS: Too many scenes that went absolutely nowhere; stilted acting; bad gags
(egg inspector?); unbelievable plot lines (the smoking ticket, hockey on roof,
laying the dead guy: The smell of feces turns her on? Girl and dead man on
ambulance together? Not to mention the psychobabbling diagnosis of her
"condition.")
BREAKFAST AT TIFFANY'S: I was hoping they'd all die.
GOODFELLAS: I love Scorsese. I love gangster flicks. I don't like GOODFELLAS.
It just didn't ring true for me and I hated the voice-overs.
IT'S A WONDERFUL LIFE: Puke-o-rama.
THE SIXTH SENSE: Nothing but a plotting cheat fest designed to manipulate. The
guy ain't a ghost in anyway resembling the "known" ghosts in the rest of the
movie. That's cheating.
YEAR OF THE HORSE: I like Jarmusch. I love Neil Young--especially with Crazy
Horse. I hate this "movie." Bad decision not to stick to the music.
Talking-head interviews are bad enough. But when the heads have absolutely
nothing to say? And who the hell thought 8mm was a good idea?
HEAT: Zzzzzz.
steve
everything in bits and pieces. Similarly with "The Third Man". And "Touch
of Evil" is one of my all time favs, so it isn't an aversion to Orsen Wells.
steve
--
"It aint me, man, it's the system."
Charles Manson
Chris Pierson
>
>As for "Suspiria", I rented it recently after reading everyone over at
>Amazon getting worked into a frenzy about how it was the greatest horror
>movie ever. Yeah, yeah, it was well done, but it's ultimately still a cheesy
>B-horror flick. I just can't disregard basic things like plot and acting.
I have to go along with that one. Not to slam people who _do_ like it, but
it did nothing for me. Argento never has.
Another one that I felt let down by was Alphaville. Went to see it at a
double-bill with Breathless (which I like a great deal), and ... well ...
it felt like post-Weekend Godard, after he lost his mind.
--
Chris Pierson ** 12 favorite films of 2000: Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon,
** Traffic, Blood Simple (dir. cut), Chuck & Buck, Best in
Game Designer ** Show, You Can Count On Me, High Fidelity, Almost Famous,
Author ** Quills, Ghost Dog, Mr. Death, Requiem for a Dream
Bill Anderson
> Well, I was inspired by the "movies nobody else likes but you" thread to
> think about those movies you have great expectations for but watch and just
> shrug and go "eh". Not easy targets like "Star Wars: TPM" and "Gladiator",
> but those movies that are "critics darlings".
>
Here's my list of movies I really expected to like, but didn't.
Explanations & comments here:
http://www.evergo.net/~weanderson/movie/no_like.htm
A Streetcar Named Desire (Brando)
Adam’s Rib
Beat the Devil
Breakfast at Tiffany's
Bringing Up Baby
Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid
Chariots of Fire
Fantasia
Fargo
The French Connection
Independence Day
It’s a Mad Mad Mad Mad World
Lawrence of Arabia
The Magnificent Ambersons
Mission Impossible
One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest
The Princess Bride
The Rocky Horror Picture Show
Sling Blade
Touch of Evil (I even bought the "new, improved version" DVD, and while
I'll admit the film's a bit improved, I'm still disappointed.)
Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory
You Can’t Take it With You
Bill Anderson
--
I hate a dirty joke, I do,
Unless it's told by someone who,
Knows how to tell it.
-- Capt. Geoffrey Spaulding
(The Captain is a Very Moral Man.)
sch...@gefen.cc.biu.ac.il
: IT'S A WONDERFUL LIFE: Puke-o-rama.
Amen, bro. I was rooting for Lionel Barrymore. And while we're at it,
let's add "Meet John Doe" to the list. Typical Capra sugarcoating -- I
read somewhere that he actually filmed the ending where Gary Cooper jumps
off the building, but lacked the guts to include it in the final product.
My additions:
RAGING BULL: I just have no idea why this film is supposed to be so great.
Maybe be you have to be Italian.
LAST TANGO IN PARIS: I can only understand this film as a clever parody
of Deep Important Films. As a Deep Important Film, I found it silly beyond
belief, despite its endorsement by the American Dairy Council.
THE COOK, THE THIEF, HIS WIFE, AND HER LOVER: Well, actually, any film
by Peter Greenaway, who brings new meaning to the word "pretentious." (I'd
add Godard's WEEKEND to the list of "pretentious, boring critically
acclaimed films," but I'm not sure how acclaimed it is really.)
AN AMERICAN IN PARIS: I found that even Oscar Levant couldn't save this one.
As a dancer, Leslie Caron isn't even in the same solar system as Cyd Charisse,
and as an ingenue love interest, she is much less appealing than Debbie
Reynolds.
-----
Richard Schultz sch...@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
"an optimist is a guy/ that has never had/ much experience"
steve
On 2-Apr-2001, <sch...@gefen.cc.biu.ac.il> wrote:
> RAGING BULL: I just have no idea why this film is supposed to be so
> great.
> Maybe be you have to be Italian.
Amazing performances, stark realism, tragic story. That's why I love this
film.
> THE COOK, THE THIEF, HIS WIFE, AND HER LOVER: Well, actually, any film
> by Peter Greenaway, who brings new meaning to the word "pretentious."
> (I'd
> add Godard's WEEKEND to the list of "pretentious, boring critically
> acclaimed films," but I'm not sure how acclaimed it is really.)
Have you seen "The Draughtmans Contract"? Greenaways most "normal" film,
and my favorite.
Jeffrey Davis
steve wrote:
>
> On 2-Apr-2001, <sch...@gefen.cc.biu.ac.il> wrote:
>
> > RAGING BULL: I just have no idea why this film is supposed to be so
> > great.
> > Maybe be you have to be Italian.
>
> Amazing performances, stark realism, tragic story. That's why I love this
> film.
It isn't a tragic story. It's Caliban learning to speak. La Motta leaves
his inarticulate self behind.
James L. Neibaur
Rules of the Game
A Clockwork Orange
Chariots of Fire
Waiting for Guffman
Animal House
The Blues Brothers
Jurassic Park
U2; Rattle and Hum
Most of these are good movies that I should like --- but I don't.
JN
Please visit the most poorly designed web pages online:
my Favorite Movies web page:
http://hometown.aol.com/jimneibr/myhomepage/movies.html
and my Favorite Performers web page:
http://hometown.aol.com/jimneibr/myhomepage/rant.html
steve
On 2-Apr-2001, Jeffrey Davis <da...@ca.uky.edu> wrote:
> > Amazing performances, stark realism, tragic story. That's why I love
> > this
> > film.
>
> It isn't a tragic story. It's Caliban learning to speak. La Motta leaves
> his inarticulate self behind.
Im not familiar with your reference to "Caliban", but I'd say LaMotta is
clearly a tragic figure. Boxer becomes world champ, then destroys his
marriage, destroys his relationship with his brother, ends up broke and in
prison, and finally eeks out a living as a two bit showman. How the mighty
have fallen...
"Caliban"?
Jeffrey Davis
Caliban was the inarticulate beast that Prospero taught in The Tempest.
I don't think the Shakespeare business at the end of the movie is
accidental or ironic. It's a bit of redemption for La Motta. If you see
the poetry recitations as preposterous then La Motta is pure buffoon. I
don't think Scorsese shares that.
steve
I do see him as something of a buffoon, and scorsese certainly doesn't
present him as otherwise. My favorite scene is in the prison cell where he
bangs his head (ouch) and repeats, "I'm not that bad." True enough, he
isn't bad, just not very smart. That is the tragedy. Despite his talent,
and honesty (or pride) that prevents him (almost) from bowing to corruption,
he is a slave to his baser needs and fails to adequately take care of the
business of life. Even if redeemed in the end (which I don't doubt) in a
spiritual sense, his many mistakes have left him greatly diminished.
I love Shakespeare but find him difficult to read. I need to see the plays
to understand them without great difficulty. The Kenneth Branagh Hamlet
(1996) was brilliant, but even then I struggled through the last couple
hours. I recall a great MacBeth with Orsen Wells. The only Tempest I've
seen is the Greenaway film "Prosperos Books". Try to follow that one!
Jeffrey Davis
steve wrote:
>
> On 2-Apr-2001, Jeffrey Davis <da...@ca.uky.edu> wrote:
>
> > > "Caliban"?
> >
> > Caliban was the inarticulate beast that Prospero taught in The Tempest.
> > I don't think the Shakespeare business at the end of the movie is
> > accidental or ironic. It's a bit of redemption for La Motta. If you see
> > the poetry recitations as preposterous then La Motta is pure buffoon. I
> > don't think Scorsese shares that.
>
> I do see him as something of a buffoon, and scorsese certainly doesn't
> present him as otherwise.
We'll have to disagree here. La Motta isn't Gielgud, but he's sees
something of value in being articulate and pursues it. There's a comic
side to a mug spouting Shakespeare, sure. But he's changed a bit for the
better.
Sidney Falco
lawrence of arabia (the most overrated movie ever made)
a letter to three wives (JLM winning the writing oscar was bad enough,
but DIRECTING?!?)
rio bravo (el dorado is BETTER!!!)
body heat (sexed up double indemnity ripoff)
good will hunting (when you rip off charly...)
a place in the sun
ben hur (1959)
the big chill
platoon
hannah & her sisters
"I don't mind lying, but I hate inaccuracy." -- Samuel Butler
Endymion9
Coming To America
L.A. Story
Please Throw Mama From The Train
The Fisher King
The Purple Rose of Cairo
Broadway Danny Rose
--
Dennis/Endy
~dancing us from the darkest nights is the rhythm of love powered by the
beating of hearts~ - XTC
http://home.mindspring.com/~endymion9/index.htm
Chris Pierson
This would be the more polite version, right? :) And since when are people
supposed to like it?
Next2TheMoon
Good call, and one that I share as well. I really want to like it, too. Maybe
I'll get it in another 10 years.
steve
Actually I'm not at all sure that we disagree, because he is changed for the
better. But only for the better because he had fallen so far (which is the
tragedy I refer to).
Endymion9
movie. I thought it was their worst roles and totally unfunny.
--
Dennis/Endy
~dancing us from the darkest nights is the rhythm of love powered by the
beating of hearts~ - XTC
http://home.mindspring.com/~endymion9/index.htm
"Chris Pierson" <cpie...@tiac.net> wrote in message
news:9ab63t$p...@news-central.tiac.net...
D_S.
Ew..no..
thats a popcorn flick.
Everyone raved on about "The Virgin Suicides" here in Australia..
Urgh.
And "Stigmata" double Urgh.
Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil...HurlyBurly....
What was the deal there??
yeah and to the freaks who thought "Spank the Monkey" was a great flick..
are you out of your mind??
- D
"O.J. Simpson" <sim...@hehaw.com> wrote in message
news:m2ofuep...@colossus.muw.edu...
> Forrest Gump (ugh)
> 2001 A Space Odyssey
> Casablanca
> Charlies Angels
>
> OJ
steve
On 3-Apr-2001, "D_S." <deeus_re...@bigpond.com> wrote:
> HurlyBurly
This film is comic, self centered, hollywood distorted, deeply shallow, out
of proportion poetic nonsense. It's exhausting, but very entertaining.
Bill Anderson
> I love Shakespeare but find him difficult to read. I need to see the plays
> to understand them without great difficulty. The Kenneth Branagh Hamlet
> (1996) was brilliant, but even then I struggled through the last couple
> hours. I recall a great MacBeth with Orsen Wells. The only Tempest I've
> seen is the Greenaway film "Prosperos Books". Try to follow that one!
If you've seen the classic sci-fi "Forbidden Planet," you've seen a
little more "Tempest" than you think, and you've also seen Caliban.
(What did they call him? The Monster from the Id?)
SLB
>
>On 3-Apr-2001, "D_S." <deeus_re...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>
>> HurlyBurly
>
>This film is comic, self centered, hollywood distorted, deeply shallow, out
>of proportion poetic nonsense. It's exhausting, but very entertaining.
I was actually surprised to see this film come up in this thread. I
didn't know this was one of those "supposed to like" movie. Anyway, I
really liked it quite a bit. If you think it's exhausting, then you
should try and see the play if you ever get the opportunity. While I
loved the movie, my only complaint was that it tried to be too much of
a movie to the detriment of both the original text and the film
itself. They chopped what appear in the play as a few large chunks
into bite size parts. The opening scene is a great example of that.
First they're talking in the apartment, then there's a cut and a
supposed passage of time, and then they are talking on phones, one of
them at home and the other in his car. It's just a little too
disjointed, and while I think that style works for the overall feel of
the movie, I think the claustrophobic nature of the play is much
better for effect. Check it out sometime if you ever get the chance.
slb, who loved Garry Shandling in this movie and feels it was inspired
casting
steve
On 3-Apr-2001, Bill Anderson <billan...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> If you've seen the classic sci-fi "Forbidden Planet," you've seen a
> little more "Tempest" than you think, and you've also seen Caliban.
> (What did they call him? The Monster from the Id?)
I love that film.
The Artist Formerly Known as Theodoric
news:B6ECF01A.144A%sc...@mac.com...
> Well, I was inspired by the "movies nobody else likes but you" thread to
> think about those movies you have great expectations for but watch and
just
> shrug and go "eh". Not easy targets like "Star Wars: TPM" and "Gladiator",
> but those movies that are "critics darlings".
Fargo -- perhaps the most overrated film in movie history. One long,
unfunny joke centered around how "people in Minnesota sure talk funny!"
Whatever observations the Coen brothers had in mind about human nature are
obscured by a weak, one-note script. Why Siskel, Ebert, AMPAS, and voters
for AFI's "100 Years, 100 Movies" heaped praise on this is a mystery on a
par with the disappearance of Judge Crater.
Gone With the Wind -- the most interesting character (Gable) is absent for
half the film, and Scarlett is annoying. All this dressed up with longing
for the good ole days of plantations. Not an awful film (like Fargo) but a
massively overrated potboiler. Not the greatest movie ever made, nor even
the fifth best movie of 1939. (Compare with, in no particular order,
"Ninotchka", "The Wizard of Oz", "Stagecoach", and "Mr. Smith Goes to
Washington" for starters) At the end, like Gable, I didn't give a damn.
Terms of Endearment -- manipulative as all get out; nothing at all special.
We were supposed to care about Debra Winger?
A Passage to India -- as one wag called it, a passage to boredom. Nice
performances by Peggy Ashcroft, Victor Banerjee, and Judy Davis, though.
Fatal Attraction -- a pale imitation of Clint Eastwood's "Play Misty for
Me", not a great film itself.
--
________________________________________________________
"I think I've got the right idea, to do crazy things -- what other people
would consider crazy things. There's so much fun to be had."
-- Richard Feynman, Nobel laureate, master bongo player and safecracker
"Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it."
-- Andre Gide
Wull
I think that you are more of an artiste than an artist.
IMO, anyone can have a movie or two that almost everyone likes and one does not
like them.
But to pick five movies that were quite well received with many AA and at least
AA nominations, it seems that you are looking to rile a few haunches.
Wull
Chris Pierson
Wull <wjma...@datarecall.net> wrote:
>Hey Theo,
>
>I think that you are more of an artiste than an artist.
>
>IMO, anyone can have a movie or two that almost everyone likes and one does not
>like them.
>
>But to pick five movies that were quite well received with many AA and at least
>AA nominations, it seems that you are looking to rile a few haunches.
True enough. I happen to share his apathy toward GWTW, but hey, if critics
and the public both consider it one of the greatest films ever, I think
that overrides my own personal objections. It's just another case of
typical net behavior: "I hated it, ergo it sucks, and everyone who _does_
like it is clearly a drooling moron." That's even clearer in his blanket
dismissal of anyone who finds value in Fargo.
The Artist Formerly Known as Theodoric
news:3ACA686E...@datarecall.net...
> Hey Theo,
>
> I think that you are more of an artiste than an artist.
>
> IMO, anyone can have a movie or two that almost everyone likes and one
does not
> like them.
>
> But to pick five movies that were quite well received with many AA and at
least
> AA nominations, it seems that you are looking to rile a few haunches.
I think that's the point of the exercise, though. Like the original poster
said, Star Wars Episode I is easy pickings, even if it *did* rake in the box
office. Fargo, GWTW, A Passage to India, Fatal Attraction, and Terms of
Endearment were all considered critical and, IIRC, box office successes.
GWTW is a widely loved film, Fargo has a cult following, and the others were
well received by critics and moviegoers. I'd really only classify one of
the five (Fargo) as a truly bad film -- the others are simply overrated for
various reasons.
I'd disagree with some of the other choices, especially those that cited
Citizen Kane, Casablanca, Lawrence of Arabia, and Raging Bull, but to each
their own...
GrapeApe
>clearly a tragic figure. Boxer becomes world champ, then destroys his
>marriage, destroys his relationship with his brother, ends up broke and
>in
>prison, and finally eeks out a living as a two bit showman. How the mighty
>have fallen...
Actually, he was the same bum all the way through, it was his circumstances
that changed (because he was the same bum throughout)
Bill Anderson
> True enough. I happen to share his apathy toward GWTW, but hey, if critics
> and the public both consider it one of the greatest films ever, I think
> that overrides my own personal objections.
If critics and the public consider a film one of the greatest ever but I
dislike the film, I don't allow others' opinions to override my
personal objections. You shouldn't either.
> It's just another case of
> typical net behavior: "I hated it, ergo it sucks, and everyone who _does_
> like it is clearly a drooling moron." That's even clearer in his blanket
> dismissal of anyone who finds value in Fargo.
A few years ago I was fascinated to learn that if I say "That movie is
bad," and follow the coment with a reasoned critique, people are likely
to spend a lot of time and bandwidth indignantly pointing out that
"That's just YOUR opinion!" But if I say, "I think that movie is bad,"
and follow it with a similar critique, the responses tend to focus more
on the points I have to make. Interesting human nature. In both cases
it's obvious I am stating my opinion. But people often seem to want
reassurance that when I state an opinion, I acknowledge it's an opinion,
and not a universal truth.
So let us say I THINK Theo is right on target with every one of the films
he mentioned except GWTW, which, every odd-numbered time I see it, I
THINK is a fabulous story and a monumental landmark of film. Don't
ask about the even-numbered times. And as for "Fargo"...
"Fargo," by the gifted producer/director/writer team of Joel and Ethan
Coen, reminds me of one of their previous films which I enjoyed very
much, "Blood Simple." Like "Blood Simple," "Fargo" is a tale of crime
gone wrong. This time it's a kidnapping plan that spins horribly out of
control, leading to several grisly murders. Also, like "Blood Simple,"
"Fargo" is a comedy. But this time, for me, the humor didn't work.
"Fargo" has been described as something of a warmhearted tribute by the
Coen brothers to the wonderful people of their home state, Minnesota. No
it's not. It's a nefarious assault on decent people whose main offense
against humanity, apparently, is that they are friendly and trusting. And
they talk funny. I happened to see this film in Washington, D.C., where
others in the audience repeatedly guffawed in superior tones at what were
supposed to be silly rubes on screen. Several audience members seemed to
consider it their personal duty to laugh loudly and pointedly in
sophisticated derision at decent, open and honest Minnesotans. And the
way they talk. Maybe having grown up in the South makes me particularly
sensitive to accent bigotry. I dunno. But I liked the good people in this
film, and it annoyed me that the Coen brothers portrayed them with
contempt. Warmhearted contempt is still contempt. You've been away from
home too long, guys.
The Artist Formerly Known as Theodoric
> In article <3ACA686E...@datarecall.net>,
> Wull <wjma...@datarecall.net> wrote:
> >Hey Theo,
> >
> >I think that you are more of an artiste than an artist.
> >
> >IMO, anyone can have a movie or two that almost everyone likes and one
does not
> >like them.
> >
> >But to pick five movies that were quite well received with many AA and at
least
> >AA nominations, it seems that you are looking to rile a few haunches.
>
> True enough. I happen to share his apathy toward GWTW, but hey, if critics
> and the public both consider it one of the greatest films ever, I think
> that overrides my own personal objections.
I strongly disagree. I don't think this is the equivalent of "eat your
spinach, you *have* to like this movie because critics loved it, it made
truckloads of money, and it got Oscar nominations". I'll agree that GWTW
is a historically important film, a popular film, even a much beloved film.
But I can't concede that GWTW is a great film, or a great artistic
achievement, simply on the basis that it's much beloved and critically
praised.
> It's just another case of
> typical net behavior: "I hated it, ergo it sucks, and everyone who _does_
> like it is clearly a drooling moron." That's even clearer in his blanket
> dismissal of anyone who finds value in Fargo.
Reread my original comments on Fargo. I never referred to anyone who
praised Fargo as a moron or anything of the sort. I *did* say that the
reasons for their praise is "a mystery on a par with the disappearance of
Judge Crater", and outlined my major reasons for disliking Fargo. Hardly
"anybody who likes it is a drooling moron." I do think that the film is not
just overrated but out and out bad. This doesn't mean that anyone who feels
that Fargo is a great film is a drooling moron or anything like that. But I
don't think Siskel and Ebert's praise, Oscar nominations, and a cult
following make Fargo a great or even good film.
Chris Pierson
Bill Anderson <billan...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>In article <9adqf2$5...@news-central.tiac.net>, cpie...@tiac.net says...
>> In article <3ACA686E...@datarecall.net>,
>> Wull <wjma...@datarecall.net> wrote:
>
>
>> True enough. I happen to share his apathy toward GWTW, but hey, if critics
>> and the public both consider it one of the greatest films ever, I think
>> that overrides my own personal objections.
>
>If critics and the public consider a film one of the greatest ever but I
>dislike the film, I don't allow others' opinions to override my
>personal objections. You shouldn't either.
I don't. But I've learned not to call them idiots when I'm clearly in the
minority. I mean, yeah, if someone said Burn Hollywood Burn was a classic,
then they're an idiot, but when I'm the exception, as with GWTW, I accept
that maybe the movie _is_ good, but it just isn't my bag.
>A few years ago I was fascinated to learn that if I say "That movie is
>bad," and follow the coment with a reasoned critique, people are likely
>to spend a lot of time and bandwidth indignantly pointing out that
>"That's just YOUR opinion!" But if I say, "I think that movie is bad,"
>and follow it with a similar critique, the responses tend to focus more
>on the points I have to make. Interesting human nature. In both cases
>it's obvious I am stating my opinion. But people often seem to want
>reassurance that when I state an opinion, I acknowledge it's an opinion,
>and not a universal truth.
It really boils down to one of the things my mother used to tell me --
it's not just what you say, it's how you say it. I think you'd get the
same responses if you hopped up on a soapbox at the local park and said
things one way, or the other.
I definitely get your point about Fargo, BTW, but as someone whose accent
sounds somewhat like theirs (I'm from Southern Ontario), I was quite happy
to laugh along with it. Particularly since Frances McDormand's character
was so sympathetic, decent and capable.
But this isn't a thread for debating the merits of Fargo. If you don't
like Fargo, fine -- just don't be like Theo and assume I'm a moron because
I do. :)
Bill Anderson
>
> But this isn't a thread for debating the merits of Fargo.
But isn't Fargo one of the films I'm supposed to like but don't?
CultCuts
Mark
http://www.icehouse.net/cultcuts
CULTCUTS WEBZINE
Bill Anderson
says...
> Moonstruck
>
Mark, I'm so sorry. It's such a wonderful film. And I insist I’m not a
Nicholas Cage fan, even though he appears in two of my very favorite
films: "Raising Arizona," and "Moonstruck." His real talent must
be knowing how to pick scripts. The subject of this film is love in all
its wondrous permutations. Cher is smart, sassy, vulnerable and
beautiful, and she deserved the Academy Award for her performance. But
what I love most about this story is "Cosmo’s Moon," the implication of
the concept, and the magical way in which an actor pronounced those
words. And maybe the dogs.
Bill Anderson
steve
On 4-Apr-2001, cpie...@tiac.net (Chris Pierson) wrote:
> >
> >If critics and the public consider a film one of the greatest ever but I
> >dislike the film, I don't allow others' opinions to override my
> >personal objections. You shouldn't either.
>
> I don't. But I've learned not to call them idiots when I'm clearly in the
> minority. I mean, yeah, if someone said Burn Hollywood Burn was a classic,
> then they're an idiot, but when I'm the exception, as with GWTW, I accept
> that maybe the movie _is_ good, but it just isn't my bag.
Pardon me for jumping in, but Mr Pierson has busted my balls a few times
over just such a discussion. Now I begin to see why. I agree whole
heartedly with Bill that expressing your own opinion (I hasten to add:
*especially* if it conflicts with majority opinion) is part of what these
discussions are all about. Further, the notion that a film is objectively
"good" is nonsense. Art is not math, it is entirely subjective. And,
though I dont call people here idiots, I think it is entirely appropraite to
call a film "idiotic" if that is your opinion.
> >A few years ago I was fascinated to learn that if I say "That movie is
> >bad," and follow the coment with a reasoned critique, people are likely
> >to spend a lot of time and bandwidth indignantly pointing out that
> >"That's just YOUR opinion!" But if I say, "I think that movie is bad,"
> >and follow it with a similar critique, the responses tend to focus more
> >on the points I have to make. Interesting human nature. In both cases
> >it's obvious I am stating my opinion. But people often seem to want
> >reassurance that when I state an opinion, I acknowledge it's an opinion,
> >and not a universal truth.
Good point. I recall a few lines from "American Buffalo". Dustin Hoffmans
characater pontificates for a few minutes. Then another character says to
Dustin Hoffmans character "According to you." Hoffman replies "Of couse
it's 'according to me'. That's usually who it's according to when I'm
speaking." Well, duh.
> But this isn't a thread for debating the merits of Fargo. If you don't
> like Fargo, fine -- just don't be like Theo and assume I'm a moron because
> I do. :)
Did you call Mr Pierson a moron? I never did, but got such responses just
the same.
I'm done. Someone please respond so Pierson will see this. I'm in his
killfile.
Chris Pierson
Bill Anderson <billan...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>In article <3ACA8BD8...@icehouse.net>, cult...@icehouse.net
>says...
>> Moonstruck
>>
>
>Mark, I'm so sorry. It's such a wonderful film. And I insist I’m not a
>Nicholas Cage fan, even though he appears in two of my very favorite
>films: "Raising Arizona," and "Moonstruck." His real talent must
>be knowing how to pick scripts.
Not lately, mind you. The guy was in Gone in 60 Seconds, for crying out
loud. Since he won the Oscar, he seems to have developed a tin ear,
script-wise. (Although I'll admit I enjoyed Face/Off, ludicrous though it
was.)
I really should see Moonstruck again. I don't really remember it all that
well, probably because I was about 13 when I saw it.
Chris Pierson
Bill Anderson <billan...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>In article <9adulk$e...@news-central.tiac.net>, cpie...@tiac.net says...
>
>>
>> But this isn't a thread for debating the merits of Fargo.
>
>But isn't Fargo one of the films I'm supposed to like but don't?
Is it? Damn, I need a scorecard. :)
Bill Anderson
> In article <MPG.15345adc6...@news.rcn.com>,
> Bill Anderson <billan...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> >In article <3ACA8BD8...@icehouse.net>, cult...@icehouse.net
> >says...
> >> Moonstruck
> >>
> >
> >Mark, I'm so sorry. It's such a wonderful film. And I insist I’m not a
> >Nicholas Cage fan, even though he appears in two of my very favorite
> >films: "Raising Arizona," and "Moonstruck." His real talent must
> >be knowing how to pick scripts.
>
> Not lately, mind you. The guy was in Gone in 60 Seconds, for crying out
> loud.
Ohhh golly. Forgot about that one. I'm hanging my head.
> I really should see Moonstruck again. I don't really remember it all that
> well, probably because I was about 13 when I saw it.
Ah...that says a lot. Assuming you're north of 20 now, you might
appreciate it on a second viewing. Normally I don't give straightforward
romance stories a second glance. I don't dislike "When Harry Met Sally,"
or "The American President," or, well, maybe you can name more. I just
don't think about them. But "Moonstruck" charmed me and I can't really
explain why. Young people in love. Old people equally in love.
Betrayal. Forgiveness. Humor. Tenderness. The film featured an opera,
and it was operatic itself, rich with honesty and feeling. I'm not
Italian, and I'm not a New Yorker. Not by a long shot. But I fell in
love with those people -- the entire family -- and I'll never forget
them.
The Artist Formerly Known as Theodoric
news:9ae4bs$io7$1...@bob.news.rcn.net...
<snip>
>
> Pardon me for jumping in, but Mr Pierson has busted my balls a few times
> over just such a discussion. Now I begin to see why. I agree whole
> heartedly with Bill that expressing your own opinion (I hasten to add:
> *especially* if it conflicts with majority opinion) is part of what these
> discussions are all about. Further, the notion that a film is objectively
> "good" is nonsense. Art is not math, it is entirely subjective. And,
> though I dont call people here idiots, I think it is entirely appropraite
to
> call a film "idiotic" if that is your opinion.
Agreed wholeheartedly. Others have stated in this thread that they didn't
like Casablanca or Citizen Kane. I strongly disagree, but it's their right
to call those films "idiotic" if they so choose. I may be wrong, but I
think Mr. Pierson may have been the first to use a synonym for the word
"idiotic" when he stated (wrongly) that I called Fargo-philes "drooling
morons", or implied that you had to be a moron to like Fargo. I said
nothing of the sort, and I don't see how someone could draw the implication
from my original comments.
> > >A few years ago I was fascinated to learn that if I say "That movie is
> > >bad," and follow the coment with a reasoned critique, people are likely
> > >to spend a lot of time and bandwidth indignantly pointing out that
> > >"That's just YOUR opinion!" But if I say, "I think that movie is bad,"
> > >and follow it with a similar critique, the responses tend to focus more
> > >on the points I have to make. Interesting human nature. In both cases
> > >it's obvious I am stating my opinion. But people often seem to want
> > >reassurance that when I state an opinion, I acknowledge it's an
opinion,
> > >and not a universal truth.
>
> Good point. I recall a few lines from "American Buffalo". Dustin
Hoffmans
> characater pontificates for a few minutes. Then another character says to
> Dustin Hoffmans character "According to you." Hoffman replies "Of couse
> it's 'according to me'. That's usually who it's according to when I'm
> speaking." Well, duh.
Excellent point. If there are, indeed, universal truths, they aren't to be
found debating the merits of individual films. It's pretty obvious that
we're kicking around personal opinions on a popular art, movies. And when
Ebert talks to the camera and tells you that he thought a certain film was
the greatest thing since sliced bread, he's simply offering an opinion on a
work of art he has experienced. You can't quantify the value of a film
objectively, whether you're Ebert or the guy at the corner newsstand. What
you *can* do is offer a reasoned opinion, which is what good discussion and
good film criticism are all about.
> > But this isn't a thread for debating the merits of Fargo. If you don't
> > like Fargo, fine -- just don't be like Theo and assume I'm a moron
because
> > I do. :)
>
> Did you call Mr Pierson a moron? I never did, but got such responses just
> the same.
Actually Mr. Pierson has said that I'm either a) assuming he's a moron based
on his opinion on Fargo and b) that all people who like Fargo must be
"drooling morons". Again, I've neither said nor implied anything of the
sort. Mr. Pierson is setting up what people in the bidness call a "straw
man".
>
> I'm done. Someone please respond so Pierson will see this. I'm in his
> killfile.
>
> steve
> --
> "It aint me, man, it's the system."
> Charles Manson
--
Tara O.
say West Side Story was a big let down for me. I had heard how great it
was, what a classic it is, so many times that when I finally did see it I
didn't think much of it. The best part of the movie is the last 30 minutes,
IMHO.
--
Tara O.
Have you microchipped your pet yet?
"Joshua Wolf" <sc...@mac.com> wrote in message
news:B6ECF01A.144A%sc...@mac.com...
> Well, I was inspired by the "movies nobody else likes but you" thread to
> think about those movies you have great expectations for but watch and
just
> shrug and go "eh". Not easy targets like "Star Wars: TPM" and "Gladiator",
> but those movies that are "critics darlings".
>
> Two I've been thinking about lately are "American Beauty" and "Suspiria".
I
> just threw in "Fight Club" last night and started thinking about how much
of
> a better take on the same subject it was than "American Beauty", which I
> found well done but predictable and unoriginal.
>
> As for "Suspiria", I rented it recently after reading everyone over at
> Amazon getting worked into a frenzy about how it was the greatest horror
> movie ever. Yeah, yeah, it was well done, but it's ultimately still a
cheesy
> B-horror flick. I just can't disregard basic things like plot and acting.
>
> Oooh, and "Clerks" (and just about any Kevin Smith movie except "Chasing
> Amy"). More clever than good/funny, I think, and he's incapable of
bringing
> good performances from mediocre actors. Unfortunately, this view makes me
> feel like a pariah among my twentysomething peers.
>
> josh
>
>
>
>
CultCuts
> In article <3ACA8BD8...@icehouse.net>, cult...@icehouse.net
> says...
> > Moonstruck
> >
>
> Mark, I'm so sorry. It's such a wonderful film. And I insist I’m not a
> Nicholas Cage fan, even though he appears in two of my very favorite
> films: "Raising Arizona," and "Moonstruck." His real talent must
> be knowing how to pick scripts. The subject of this film is love in all
> its wondrous permutations. Cher is smart, sassy, vulnerable and
> beautiful, and she deserved the Academy Award for her performance. But
> what I love most about this story is "Cosmo’s Moon," the implication of
> the concept, and the magical way in which an actor pronounced those
> words. And maybe the dogs.
>
> Bill Anderson
I'll agree that the performances were excellent and I really like Raising
Arizona as well. I completely found Moonstruck to be very empty when all is
said and done. One of these days I'll have to give it another shot. This is
one of those type of films that I usually end up enjoying and the rest of my
family hates, but this time it was the other way around.
CultCuts
> In article <MPG.15345adc6...@news.rcn.com>,
> Bill Anderson <billan...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> >In article <3ACA8BD8...@icehouse.net>, cult...@icehouse.net
> >says...
> >> Moonstruck
> >>
> >
> >Mark, I'm so sorry. It's such a wonderful film. And I insist I’m not a
> >Nicholas Cage fan, even though he appears in two of my very favorite
> >films: "Raising Arizona," and "Moonstruck." His real talent must
> >be knowing how to pick scripts.
>
> Not lately, mind you. The guy was in Gone in 60 Seconds, for crying out
> loud. Since he won the Oscar, he seems to have developed a tin ear,
> script-wise. (Although I'll admit I enjoyed Face/Off, ludicrous though it
> was.)
I enjoyed Face/Off as well. Yes, it was definitely ludicrous, but somehow, I
think it was meant to be. Many of John Woo's Asian films are excellent and a
lot of fun, but a realistic plot has never been a real strong point.
sch...@gefen.cc.biu.ac.il
:>Mark, I'm so sorry. It's such a wonderful film. And I insist I?m not a
:>Nicholas Cage fan, even though he appears in two of my very favorite
:>films: "Raising Arizona," and "Moonstruck." His real talent must
:>be knowing how to pick scripts.
: Not lately, mind you. The guy was in Gone in 60 Seconds, for crying out
: loud. Since he won the Oscar, he seems to have developed a tin ear,
: script-wise.
I still think that a sequel to "Red Rock West" would be a worthwhile project.
-----
Richard Schultz sch...@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
"an optimist is a guy/ that has never had/ much experience"
Next2TheMoon
D_S.
watched it..
but it left me cold.
A friend of mine was gushing so much about it I felt like I had to stick a
napkin underneath his chin.
I didn't like it..not at all.
But maybe I just didn't get it.
- D
"steve" <st...@steve.com> wrote in message
news:9adgop$oer$1...@bob.news.rcn.net...
James L. Neibaur
many who do like it.
Same goes for my favorite dead horses to beat:
Forrest Gump
Shawshank Redemption
just about anything with a spaceship
JN
Please visit the most poorly designed web pages online:
my Favorite Movies web page:
http://hometown.aol.com/jimneibr/myhomepage/movies.html
and my Favorite Performers web page:
http://hometown.aol.com/jimneibr/myhomepage/rant.html
Wull
Another one of my dislikes was Pulp Fiction.
I considered FG and SR just average movies.
What does this mean? Are you the guy from Germany? :-) My name is really
Möhle.
Wull
Helen & Bob
Bill Anderson wrote:
My opinion of the film was that the accent was the main purpose for the film.
The rest of it was just a platform for the derision.
But, I was not in their minds when they made the decision to make the film. I
do know that I don't care for it.
Bob
Sawfish
>Moonstruck
Jeezus! I had forgotten that film (not surprisingly) but mere mention of
it gave me an unpleasant feeling, like watching someone publicly humiliate
himself.
I remember that I went to the theatre all primed to like this witty comedy
(?), and had the smile freeze on my face and turn to a grimace.
Was it really that bad?
--
--Sawfish
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I wouldn't want to belong to a club that would accept someone like me
as a member." --G. Marx
megans
Dinner at Eight
Bringing up Baby
Forrest Gump
steve
On 3-Apr-2001, "The Artist Formerly Known as Theodoric"
<theodori...@DESTROYALLSPAMMERS.mydeja.com> wrote:
> Fargo -- perhaps the most overrated film in movie history. One long,
> unfunny joke centered around how "people in Minnesota sure talk funny!"
> Whatever observations the Coen brothers had in mind about human nature are
> obscured by a weak, one-note script. Why Siskel, Ebert, AMPAS, and voters
> for AFI's "100 Years, 100 Movies" heaped praise on this is a mystery on a
> par with the disappearance of Judge Crater.
I'm quite surprized at a. the number of people who didnt like Fargo, and
b. the comments that it is "all about the accent". Although the accent is
funny at times, it is steve buscemi who provides most of the humor (and he
is no less than fuckin' great). The accent is just another quirky feature
in this quirky film. It is a fascinating story with interesting (though
not terribly complex) characters. The dialog is natural and realistic.
And, as usual, the cohen brothers direction is great. Recall the scene
where Jerry has been turned down for his last chance loan. We see him, from
long distance, walking slowly across a cold and snowy yet near empty parking
lot to his car. This is literally the picture of dejection. And the music
is great and so appropriate to the tragic, cold story line and characters.
I dont think Fargo is an important film about important subjects, but a
great film just the same.
Will
> I remember that I went to the theatre all primed to like this witty comedy
> (?) [Moonstruck]
Expectations have a lot to do with it. If I watched a baseball game
expecting to see a football game I would probably be somewhat
disappointed in the line blocking and tackling.
Yes, seeing Moonstruck as a "witty comedy" would be, well, wrong
stadium.
Sawfish
>Sawfish <m...@q7.com> wrote:
How so? It was a comedy, right?
You're aware that the people who posted reviews to the IMDB thought it was
a comedy. And when they use words like "smart and clever", this indicates
that they, too, thought it was witty.
So, is it NOT a comedy? Are romantic comedies not witty, for the most
part?
JSTONE9352
One of the most overrated movies ever
made. A garbled piece of junk IMO.
Man-Fai Wong (was Man and Natalie)
Sawfish wrote in message <98642090...@q7.q7.com>...
>Will <nos...@noway.com> writes:
>>Yes, seeing Moonstruck as a "witty comedy" would be, well, wrong
>>stadium.
>
>How so? It was a comedy, right?
>
>You're aware that the people who posted reviews to the IMDB thought it was
>a comedy. And when they use words like "smart and clever", this indicates
>that they, too, thought it was witty.
>
>So, is it NOT a comedy? Are romantic comedies not witty, for the most
>part?
>
This is why I find the classification "romantic comedy" quite useless in
practice. It almost never gives the right impression about a movie like
Moonstruck or any number of other such genre movies. It should really be a
"romantic drama w/ a touch of comedy" or some such. Amongst the few true
"romantic comedies" I love, An Ideal Husband would be one of them. But
then, I'm straying off-topic now... ;-)
I'm sure somebody else could bring up Four Weddings and a Funeral as a true
"romantic comedy" that belongs in this discussion although not me. ;-)
_Man_
--
Please remove **NOSPAM** from my address to reply by email.
Man-Fai Wong (was Man and Natalie)
>I believe I'll definitely be in the minority with my opinion but I'd have
to
>say West Side Story was a big let down for me. I had heard how great it
>was, what a classic it is, so many times that when I finally did see it I
>didn't think much of it. The best part of the movie is the last 30
minutes,
>IMHO.
>
I thought it was ok at best as a movie, but it was indeed a letdown for me
as well. FWIW, I do actually love the music and often listen to the movie
soundtrack, and I do like some of the dance scenes. But perhaps, the movie
musical that stresses the dance element just don't work well for me when
taking as a whole. The music to WSS just seems so much more moving than the
visuals on screen that I found the movie a real drag. People will probably
disagree, but I actually prefer Madonna's Evita over WSS. Maybe WSS and its
ilk just don't hold up well across generations.
Man-Fai Wong (was Man and Natalie)
I don't particularly care for The Big Chill either. I think it's one of
those movies that only appeal to a certain generation that can identify w/
it.
FWIW, I also don't care much for The Graduate. I can understand why people
love it, especially baby boomers and maybe some of the older Gen-Xers, but
it just doesn't work for me. Chalk it up as yet another movie that requires
personal identification/empathy that may not be possible for newer
Tara O.
wrote:
> I thought it was ok at best as a movie, but it was indeed a letdown for me
> as well. FWIW, I do actually love the music and often listen to the movie
> soundtrack, and I do like some of the dance scenes. But perhaps, the
movie
> musical that stresses the dance element just don't work well for me when
> taking as a whole. The music to WSS just seems so much more moving than
the
> visuals on screen that I found the movie a real drag. People will
probably
> disagree, but I actually prefer Madonna's Evita over WSS. Maybe WSS and
its
> ilk just don't hold up well across generations.
>
> _Man_
I think if I could see the stage production of WSS I might change my mind.
Often times alot gets lost in the transition from stage to screen.
sch...@gefen.cc.biu.ac.il
: Close encounters of the third kind.
:
: One of the most overrated movies ever made. A garbled piece of junk IMO.
If it makes you feel any better, I agree with you.
-----
Richard Schultz sch...@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
"How many boards would the Mongols hoard if the Mongol hordes got bored?"
Sawfish
>How about Blair Witch Project? ;-)
>I don't particularly care for The Big Chill either. I think it's one of
>those movies that only appeal to a certain generation that can identify w/
>it.
...and even then, many find it self-congratulatory and self-indulgent,
like Breakfast Club.
It's like Slackers, without the ability to laugh at itself.
>FWIW, I also don't care much for The Graduate. I can understand why people
>love it, especially baby boomers and maybe some of the older Gen-Xers, but
>it just doesn't work for me. Chalk it up as yet another movie that requires
>personal identification/empathy that may not be possible for newer
>generations.
I agree.
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sawfish: A totally unreconstructed elasmobranch.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Helen & Bob
JSTONE9352 wrote:
I would say that you are in a definite minority in this
opinion.
Bob
Helen & Bob
Sawfish wrote:
> "Man-Fai Wong (was Man and Natalie)" <mandn.wong@**NOSPAM**verizon.net> writes:
>
>
> >FWIW, I also don't care much for The Graduate. I can understand why people
> >love it, especially baby boomers and maybe some of the older Gen-Xers, but
> >it just doesn't work for me. Chalk it up as yet another movie that requires
> >personal identification/empathy that may not be possible for newer
> >generations.
>
> I agree.
>
>
It is not, IMHO, a generational thing. "The Graduate" is far from being in my top
250 list. It's OK, but I also can certainly pass it up when its on TV, I do not
own a copy, nor do I rent it.
I was born in 1936.
Bob
Chris Pierson
Well, that is the point of the thread, after all. (Personally, I love
CE3K, and was really happy to see it on the big screen a couple years
ago.)
As for me, I've always been a little underwhelmed by The French Connection
-- I don't think it's a _bad_ film, but I don't quite get why so many
people consider it great. Maybe it was a context thing: it was
groundbreaking in its day, but what it did has been done (badly and well)
many times since, in many other films.
--
Chris Pierson ** 12 favorite films of 2000: Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon,
** Traffic, Blood Simple (dir. cut), Chuck & Buck, Best in
Game Designer ** Show, You Can Count On Me, High Fidelity, Almost Famous,
Author ** Quills, Ghost Dog, Mr. Death, Requiem for a Dream
Helen & Bob
Chris Pierson wrote:
> In article <3ACC6F13...@ix.netcom.com>,
> Helen & Bob <chil...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >JSTONE9352 wrote:
> >
> >> Close encounters of the third kind.
> >>
> >> One of the most overrated movies ever
> >> made. A garbled piece of junk IMO.
> >
> >I would say that you are in a definite minority in this
> >opinion.
>
> Well, that is the point of the thread, after all. (Personally, I love
> CE3K, and was really happy to see it on the big screen a couple years
> ago.)
>
> As for me, I've always been a little underwhelmed by The French Connection
> -- I don't think it's a _bad_ film, but I don't quite get why so many
> people consider it great. Maybe it was a context thing: it was
> groundbreaking in its day, but what it did has been done (badly and well)
> many times since, in many other films.
Good morning, Chris.
It was groundbreaking, and it has been copied. That does not make it bad, but
it does have something to say about the originality of the producers and
directors of the imitators, doesn't it.
Bob
Jeffrey Davis
sch...@gefen.cc.biu.ac.il wrote:
> In article <20010404201940...@ng-fl1.aol.com>, JSTONE9352 <jston...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> : Close encounters of the third kind.
> :
> : One of the most overrated movies ever made. A garbled piece of junk IMO.
>
> If it makes you feel any better, I agree with you.
The scene with the air traffic controlmen: one of the most purely imaginative in the movies. How do
you film the impossible. Put it in the minds of the audience. We sit there and watch the little blips
on the screen and everything just plays out in our minds. A great, great scene.
Man-Fai Wong (was Man and Natalie)
Well, then, you're not a baby boomer or an older X-er. The Graduate would
be the kind of movie that I would not expect anyone born before WWII to
identify w/ -- not that nobody your age cannot possibly do so, just that I
wouldn't expect it.
Sawfish
>Helen & Bob wrote in message <3ACC6FF5...@ix.netcom.com>...
>>
>>
>>Sawfish wrote:
>>
>>> "Man-Fai Wong (was Man and Natalie)" <mandn.wong@**NOSPAM**verizon.net>
>writes:
>>>
>>>
>>> >FWIW, I also don't care much for The Graduate. I can understand why
>people
>>> >love it, especially baby boomers and maybe some of the older Gen-Xers,
>but
>>> >it just doesn't work for me. Chalk it up as yet another movie that
>requires
>>> >personal identification/empathy that may not be possible for newer
>>> >generations.
>>>
>>> I agree.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>It is not, IMHO, a generational thing. "The Graduate" is far from being in
>my top
>>250 list. It's OK, but I also can certainly pass it up when its on TV, I
>do not
>>own a copy, nor do I rent it.
>>I was born in 1936.
>Well, then, you're not a baby boomer or an older X-er. The Graduate would
>be the kind of movie that I would not expect anyone born before WWII to
>identify w/ -- not that nobody your age cannot possibly do so, just that I
>wouldn't expect it.
That's exactly right.
It had a weird kind of appeal. It was clearly targetting, dead-center,
upper middle class college bound youth, the ones, like many, who had been
basically good, obedient children. They were given a film that was
stylistically conventional and shown that life could be a lot of fun if
you make your own decisions and that these decisions might be based on
self-indulgent whims.
Concurrently, Vietnam was coming ontp the radar screen for many whose
5-year student deferments were expriring, making the whole idea of coming
up with one's own decisions all the more urgent.
It worked mainly because it came to market at the right time. The
producers were probably as dumbstruck as anyone by its massive success.
Will
> They were given a film that was
> stylistically conventional and shown that life could be a lot of fun if
> you make your own decisions and that these decisions might be based on
> self-indulgent whims.
This is your view of The Graduate???
David Matthews
Time Bandits
The Fisher King
Sleepy Hollow
Man-Fai Wong (was Man and Natalie)
>
>Time Bandits
>The Fisher King
Errr... I'm sure there are plenty of Terry Gilliam fans out there, but
since when did these become "movies you're supposed to like"??
If you mentioned Twelve Monkeys, then that would be a different story.
BTW, now that I think of it, let me toss in Sixth Sense. I'm not exactly in
a tiny minority on this, but still...
Let me toss in The Piano also. FWIW, I really wanted to like this movie,
but somehow, it just doesn't do anything for me at all.
Sawfish
>Sawfish <m...@q7.com> wrote:
In a large sense, it is.
It also encouraged us to forget about all of thise silly things that our
parents told us not to do (a lot of pre-marital sex, drugs, civic duty,
etc,) so in that sense it was a "wedge" movie. Rather like Cool Hand Luke.
It told us that we could run off with our virginal college sweetheart and
make our own world. Our parents' generation was basically corrupt, and
that fact justified just about anything. We needed something like that to
resist the draft, you see.
Please understand: I'm not saying that it was a revolutionary movie in any
sense *except* that it glamourzied challenging parental authority. It
made movies such as Medium Cool possible.
David Matthews
"Man-Fai Wong wrote :
> >
> >Time Bandits
> >The Fisher King
>
> Errr... I'm sure there are plenty of Terry Gilliam fans out there, but
> since when did these become "movies you're supposed to like"??
>
Errr...since various people who know my tastes said, "I think you'll
probably like this movie".
Dave
Mark LoPresti
Back to the Future
Saving Private Ryan
American Beauty
Did I mention Forrest Gump?
Mark LoPresti, Buffalo NY
________________________________________________
"You can't cheat an honest man, never give a sucker an even break,
and never smarten-up a chump." - W.C. Fields
Starcap 50
I know I know.
How could I dislike a film as great as this one?
I dunno.
To me, it's just too damn complicated and convoluted to make it enjoyable.
I'm saying this after having seen it about ten times.
And I still don't like it.
Except for that scene where Jack gets his nose cut open.
::Sigh::
Dennis
Howard Brazee
Dabitt
>
>One of the most overrated movies ever
>made. A garbled piece of junk IMO.
No. The award goes to Ghostbusters.
Andrew Foley
Tara O. wrote in message ...
>I believe I'll definitely be in the minority with my opinion but I'd have
to
>say West Side Story was a big let down for me. I had heard how great it
>was, what a classic it is, so many times that when I finally did see it I
>didn't think much of it. The best part of the movie is the last 30
minutes,
>IMHO.
I saw WSS theatrically twice in one day, in a 70mm print. Utterly
magnificent. More than a decade earlier, I had seen it on television and
hated it. Since my theatrical viewing of WSS, the best part of twenty years
ago, I have refused to look at any film on a TV set unless I've already seen
it theatrically.
Andrew Foley
steve wrote in message <9aassp$8tv$1...@bob.news.rcn.net>...
>I recall a great MacBeth with Orsen Wells.
That must be different from the film _Macbeth_ (note that there has never
been a capital "B" in that name or title) directed by and starring Orson
Welles.
GrapeApe
>> -- I don't think it's a _bad_ film, but I don't quite get why so many
>> people consider it great. Maybe it was a context thing: it was
>> groundbreaking in its day, but what it did has been done (badly and well)
>> many times since, in many other films.
When I think of the French Connection I think of bad film stock and a car
chase. The best thing about it is I get it confused with The Conversation for
some reason.
GrapeApe
>>One of the most overrated movies ever
>>made. A garbled piece of junk IMO.
>
>No. The award goes to Ghostbusters.
What about Ghostbusters II?
Oh, we weren't supposed to like that....
GrapeApe
I think it could be cut tighter, and should have been shot in black and white
(simply because the color stock wasn't up to all those nighttime scenes at the
time)
Sidney Falco
"I don't mind lying, but I hate inaccuracy." -- Samuel Butler
starcro1
"Sawfish" <m...@q7.com> wrote in message news:98650831...@q7.q7.com...
Movies like "The Graduate" only became "stylistically conventional" *after*
"The Graduate." You get points for being the first.
"The Graduate" presented a hero who was fundamentally unlikeable,
surrounded by people who were even less likeable, had him do despicable
things, get away with it and make the audience care about him. I can't
imagine the courage of Dustin Hoffman to have his first starring role be as
a guy who storms a church during a wedding, steals the bride over the
objections of her mother (whom he had slept with), fought off the angry
congregation by threatening them with a *gold cross on a staff* (!), which
he then uses to bar the door, locking them in. Hoffman must have been the
Anti-Semites' poster child for a long time for that.
t.cruise
I thought that I was the only person who doesn't like "Ghostbusters."
I've only been able to sit through about a half hour of it. Not only
do I dislike it, I seem to have a real aversion to it. If I'm channel
surfing, and I catch sight of it, I switch the channel as fast as I
can.
T.C.
James L. Neibaur
I liked it much better when The Bowery Boys did it 40 years earlier.
JN
Please visit the most poorly designed web pages online:
my Favorite Movies web page:
http://hometown.aol.com/jimneibr/myhomepage/movies.html
and my Favorite Performers web page:
http://hometown.aol.com/jimneibr/myhomepage/rant.html
ruthy
Sawfish
Specifically, I meant cinematically conventional: convention story line,
filming technique, editing, etc. I could probabkly go along with the idea
that Benjamin was an early popular anti-hero (followed up by Butch
Cassidy, Easy Rider, etc.).
> "The Graduate" presented a hero who was fundamentally unlikeable,
>surrounded by people who were even less likeable, had him do despicable
>things, get away with it and make the audience care about him.
We could probably debate his unlikeability (to me, his character came
across as a modern day Candide, whom, to me at least, was not particularly
*unlikeable*), but I think you're maybe coming at this from a
contemptorary sensibility.
An important thing to note is that one of the reasons this film did so
well with its target audience (college-bound or college attending kids)
was that things *happened* to him--just as things were happening to kids
at that time. The very idea that you *might* not go to college was
entirely out of the question; the draft was looming on the horizon. In
these things, the kids of that era were passive recipients--or expected to
be. It wasn't until he began to supply the impetus himself that he gained
control. The film was basically telling you to quit being a patsy; the
older egneration was thoroughly corrupt.
>I can't
>imagine the courage of Dustin Hoffman to have his first starring role be as
>a guy who storms a church during a wedding, steals the bride over the
>objections of her mother (whom he had slept with), fought off the angry
>congregation by threatening them with a *gold cross on a staff* (!), which
>he then uses to bar the door, locking them in.
Certainly that has to be one of the most heavy-handed pieces of visual
symbolism outside of The Battleship Potemkin.
>Hoffman must have been the
>Anti-Semites' poster child for a long time for that.
Again, people didn't even think in those terms at that time. Certainly not
the people who went to see the film, anyway.
--
--Sawfish
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"If there's one thing I can't stand, it's intolerance."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sawfish
>Harold And Maude.
Ain't it the truth!
Harold and Maude splits viewers along some fundamental philosophical line
that I'm still trying to figure out: it sepaks to some people, and repeals
others.
FWIW, I can't stand to watch it, either.
brett
american grafitti
saving private ryan
2001
Chris Pierson
>the english patient
Interesting ... I haven't heard anyone say anything particularly good
about this one in a while. Has posterity reversed the popular opinion on
The English Patient already? In other words, is this one we're "supposed
to like" any more?
--
Chris Pierson ** 12 favorite films of 2000: Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon,
** Traffic, Blood Simple (dir. cut), Chuck & Buck, Best in
Game Designer ** Show, You Can Count On Me, High Fidelity, Almost Famous,
Author ** Quills, Ghost Dog, Mr. Death, Requiem for a Dream
steve
On 8-Apr-2001, ruthy <Ihavetoom...@no.com> wrote:
> Harold And Maude.
IMO this is a film your supposed to *hate*. From what I've seen, it's
generally just eccentric chics (and Gaza) who like it.
steve
--
"It aint me, man, it's the system."
Charles Manson
Dave T
>Citizen Kain: Never even got through it, though I've probably seen
>everything in bits and pieces. Similarly with "The Third Man". And "Touch
>of Evil" is one of my all time favs, so it isn't an aversion to Orsen
Wells.
Shakespeare In Love - Bad script, bad acting, bad music, bad production
design. Complete dog of a movie.
--
Dave
"May the Forks be with us!"
The Blue Rajah, Mystery Men
tapegasser
Dave T <david.t...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:NgIA6.1407$FD1.1...@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com...
> steve wrote in message <9a8bmb$g75$1...@bob.news.rcn.net>...
> >Citizen Kain: Never even got through it, though I've probably seen
> >everything in bits and pieces. Similarly with "The Third Man". And
"Touch
> >of Evil" is one of my all time favs, so it isn't an aversion to Orsen
> Wells.
>
> Shakespeare In Love - Bad script, bad acting, bad music, bad production
> design. Complete dog of a movie.
I agree. Unwatchable!
Tape
sch...@gefen.cc.biu.ac.il
: Let me toss in The Piano also. FWIW, I really wanted to like this movie,
: but somehow, it just doesn't do anything for me at all.
Could that be because it's stupid, pointless, pretentious, and saddled
with truly awful music?
-----
Richard Schultz sch...@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
"an optimist is a guy/ that has never had/ much experience"
Helen & Bob
brett wrote:
> the english patient OK, I can understand that.
> american grafitti
> saving private ryan
> 2001
But I think the other three are great films, with 2001 being
one of my all time favorites - BUT, only on the BIG screen.
Certainly not on a TV, even WITH DVD. ( American Graffiti
is OK on the TV)
Bob IMHO YMMV
John Reilly
news:i0+A3TAu...@fx-files.fsnet.co.uk...
> In article <RfPA6.1516$K54.9...@nntp3.onemain.com>, tapegasser
> <tapeg...@onemain.com> writes
> >> Shakespeare In Love - Bad script, bad acting, bad music, bad production
> >> design. Complete dog of a movie.
> >
> >I agree. Unwatchable!
>
Suppose I'll just have to disagree then.
On just about every level I thought "Shakespeare In Love" was very good.
--
John
(Remove NOSPAM to reply)
------------------------------------------------
"They do say, Mrs Miggins, that verbal insults hurt more than physical pain.
They are of course wrong, as you will soon discover when I stick this
toasting fork in your head."
- Edmund Blackadder
SLB
[snip]
>
>Oooh, and "Clerks" (and just about any Kevin Smith movie except "Chasing
>Amy"). More clever than good/funny, I think, and he's incapable of bringing
>good performances from mediocre actors. Unfortunately, this view makes me
>feel like a pariah among my twentysomething peers.
You and me both. I agree totally with everything you've said above,
excpet I sort of liked Dogma as well. I really despised Clerks, which
draws much ire from *my* twenty-something peers. Just know you aren't
alone.
slb, who doesn't even find Clerks all that clever either, now that
she's thinking about it
>
>josh
>
>
>
>
Helen & Bob
Jenna wrote:
> In article <pW_A6.3721$Ow3.7...@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com>, John
> Reilly <jo...@nospam.celticfc88.fsnet.co.uk> writes
> >Suppose I'll just have to disagree then.
> >On just about every level I thought "Shakespeare In Love" was very good.
>
> Go to your room without supper!!! :-D
> --
> Jenna
Pssssst. Don't worry John, I'll slip you a pizza.
(Do you have pizza in Scotland? Oh, you must have. Scotland is a civilized
area.)
Bob