"Swing Time" (1936)
steve
film just doesnt quite cut it. The music (yes, including "The Way You Look
Tonight"..why do I hate that song?) is dull and the lyrics arent pleasing to
my ear. Though the dancing is great (and only Ginger can keep up with
Fred), the filming of those numbers (one exception: the first number in the
dance studio) left me cold...too distant and static to capture the grace and
subtle beauty. The tribute to Bill Robinson (special effects have Fred
dancing with three shadows) was more interesting than inspired. Even way
back then, it seems special effects detract rather than add.
As for the plot...it's just a bit too cute and contrived...I kept wondering
why there was any issue to resolve. So Fred doesnt want to go back to his
fiance...dont go. And cant the club hire it's own orchestra, or is Gingers
admirer the only band leader in that little town known as NYC? Of course
the plot is unimportant, but the false dilemmas nagged at me like when Im
riding with someone who consistently drives well below the speed limit
("Uh..what's the problem? C'mon. Let's go!").
This one is not hard to watch, but nothing to write home about. Skip it
unless you love dance.
steve
--
"Politicians are worse than thieves. At least when thieves take your money,
they don't expect you to thank them for it."
Walter Williams
Dave in Toronto
The Fred and Ginger movies - even some of the classics - are sometimes
hard to sit through now. I've always found _ Flying Down to Rio_ a
bit of drag myself despite its reputation. Far too much of the
insipid Gene Raymond and that stupid "Carioca" dance just goes on and
on. A few saucy lines of dialogue and some lavish effects make it
watchable but only just.
Dave in Toronto
Bill Anderson
> Fred and Ginger are terrific in thier many dance/musical numbers, yet this
> film just doesnt quite cut it.
Steve, no ... this is my favorite Astaire/Rogers movie.
The music (yes, including "The Way You Look
> Tonight"..why do I hate that song?) is dull and the lyrics arent pleasing to
> my ear.
Every time I watch it I spend a week humming and singing and making
myself a pain around the office. A fine romance, with no kisses, a fine
romance, my dear this is... See? You've got me doing it right now.
Though the dancing is great
indeed
(and only Ginger can keep up with
> Fred),
It's not just the keeping up -- it's being willowy, pliant in his arms,
graceful, strong, dazzling, and never missing a step. I think I've
never seen him dance with his sister Adele, so I'm not absolutely
certain I'm right about this, but I do believe Ginger Rogers was his
perfect dance partner and compared to her everybody else was second rate.
the filming of those numbers (one exception: the first number in the
> dance studio) left me cold...too distant and static to capture the grace and
> subtle beauty. The tribute to Bill Robinson (special effects have Fred
> dancing with three shadows) was more interesting than inspired. Even way
> back then, it seems special effects detract rather than add.
>
> As for the plot...it's just a bit too cute and contrived...
No, no, no don't think about the plot, stop, cease, desist, no plot
talk, cut it out.
I kept wondering
> why there was any issue to resolve. So Fred doesnt want to go back to his
> fiance...dont go. And cant the club hire it's own orchestra, or is Gingers
> admirer the only band leader in that little town known as NYC?
Argh!
Of course
> the plot is unimportant,
Bingo.
but the false dilemmas nagged at me like when Im
> riding with someone who consistently drives well below the speed limit
> ("Uh..what's the problem? C'mon. Let's go!").
>
> This one is not hard to watch, but nothing to write home about. Skip it
> unless you love dance.
>
It's wonderful, and if you've never seen it, buy it, rent it, watch it,
don't miss it. Steve, I gotta say you've dumped on a brilliant
entertainment this time, but no problem: All you gotta do is pick
yourself up, dust yourself off, and start all over again.
--
Bill Anderson
I am the Mighty Favog
steve
On 25-Nov-2009, Bill Anderson <billand...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Fred and Ginger are terrific in thier many dance/musical numbers, yet
> > this
> > film just doesnt quite cut it.
>
> Steve, no ... this is my favorite Astaire/Rogers movie.
We're allowed to disagree, Bill.
> The music (yes, including "The Way You Look
> > Tonight"..why do I hate that song?) is dull and the lyrics arent
> > pleasing to
> > my ear.
>
> Every time I watch it I spend a week humming and singing and making
> myself a pain around the office. A fine romance, with no kisses, a fine
> romance, my dear this is... See? You've got me doing it right now.
Again...
> Though the dancing is great
>
> indeed
>
> (and only Ginger can keep up with
> > Fred),
>
> It's not just the keeping up -- it's being willowy, pliant in his arms,
> graceful, strong, dazzling, and never missing a step. I think I've
> never seen him dance with his sister Adele, so I'm not absolutely
> certain I'm right about this, but I do believe Ginger Rogers was his
> perfect dance partner and compared to her everybody else was second rate.
We agree. I didnt mean to short change GR. She is terrific in every way
everty time I see her. No kidding.
...
> Of course
> > the plot is unimportant,
>
> Bingo.
A bad plot cant kill this type of movie. But a good one can help (this film
needs the help, IMO), and a bad one leaves less room for error elsewhere.
> > This one is not hard to watch, but nothing to write home about. Skip it
> > unless you love dance.
> >
>
> It's wonderful, and if you've never seen it, buy it, rent it, watch it,
> don't miss it. Steve, I gotta say you've dumped on a brilliant
> entertainment this time, but no problem: All you gotta do is pick
> yourself up, dust yourself off, and start all over again.
The best number in the film.
Enjoy the holiday (everyone!).
john smith
Fred and Ginger are just great. It is often imitated but can never ever
be duplicated. The top 3 Astaire/ Rogers movies I consider Swing Time,
Shall We dance and Top Hat. I love the character actors such as Eric
Blore and Eddy Everett Horton who seem to always add some much needed
comedy to the less than stellar plots....
The Way You Look Tonight has been a song using various styles from Ella
Fitzgerald dragging it out slowly to the upbeat version by Frank Sinatra
I immensely enjoy....
If you like dancing try some Eleanor Powell movies starring the best
dancer ever to grace the screen in my opinion. Lady Be Good and The
Broadway Melody ones being the best of the lot. But if your looking for
earth shattering plots here ,move on....
steve
On 25-Nov-2009, eddy...@msn.com (john smith) wrote:
> I really don't care about the plot in most musicals. The dancing team of
> Fred and Ginger are just great. It is often imitated but can never ever
> be duplicated. The top 3 Astaire/ Rogers movies I consider Swing Time,
> Shall We dance and Top Hat. I love the character actors such as Eric
> Blore and Eddy Everett Horton who seem to always add some much needed
> comedy to the less than stellar plots..
I think I put that criticism in proper perspective.
One thing you guys seem to miss in my review is that I felt the director
didnt do a good job of capturing many of the dance numbers.
Clifford Blau
>Fred and Ginger are terrific in thier many dance/musical numbers, yet this
>film just doesnt quite cut it. The music (yes, including "The Way You Look
>Tonight"..why do I hate that song?) is dull and the lyrics arent pleasing to
>my ear. Though the dancing is great (and only Ginger can keep up with
>Fred), the filming of those numbers (one exception: the first number in the
>dance studio) left me cold...too distant and static to capture the grace and
>subtle beauty.
>
>As for the plot...it's just a bit too cute and contrived...I kept wondering
>why there was any issue to resolve. So Fred doesnt want to go back to his
>fiance...dont go. And cant the club hire it's own orchestra, or is Gingers
>admirer the only band leader in that little town known as NYC? Of course
>the plot is unimportant, but the false dilemmas nagged at me like when Im
>riding with someone who consistently drives well below the speed limit
>("Uh..what's the problem? C'mon. Let's go!").
>
>This one is not hard to watch, but nothing to write home about. Skip it
>unless you love dance.
I gotta agree with Steve here. I read some of the comments on the
IMDb about how great this movie is. But I thought it was mediocre. I
saw a bit of The Gay Divorcee just before it, and that was a much more
entertaining movie. All the people saying I should just ignore the
plot- why have a plot at all if I am supposed to ignore it? Why not
just have singing and dancing? I spent the second half of the movie
saying, Why doesn't he just break off his engagement to Margaret? At
least Fred and Ginger weren't constantly bickering in this one. There
wasn't enough Eric Blore in this one, and no E. E. Horton at all;
Victor Moore wasn't an acceptable substitute. It did have some witty
dialogue, and I liked the dance near the end when Fred and Ginger were
parting.
"Curse you, Don Tickles, Notary Public!"
TBerk
There is a 'Revival House' near where I live and I have found the
difference in seeing these old films on the big screen vs watching at
home to be dramatic, to say it mildly.
I really mean it, being at home with Dolby going and the lights turned
down can absorb me w/ a special effects picture but seeing F&G doing
their thing on the Silver helps take you back; societal norms from
another era click in more readily, the intimacy is greater, and the
immersion of being in the audience make it a venue I'll watch certain
films in. and no where else.
I hadn't thought of it that way, perhaps just like that, till now but
it's true- there are certain films I don't make an effort to see
unless they are on a movie screen. I think this is one of the them.
berk
Clifford Blau
>Fred and Ginger are terrific in thier many dance/musical numbers, yet this
>film just doesnt quite cut it. The music (yes, including "The Way You Look
>Tonight"..why do I hate that song?) is dull and the lyrics arent pleasing to
>my ear. Though the dancing is great (and only Ginger can keep up with
>Fred), the filming of those numbers (one exception: the first number in the
>dance studio) left me cold...too distant and static to capture the grace and
>subtle beauty.
>
>As for the plot...it's just a bit too cute and contrived...I kept wondering
>why there was any issue to resolve. So Fred doesnt want to go back to his
>fiance...dont go. And cant the club hire it's own orchestra, or is Gingers
>admirer the only band leader in that little town known as NYC? Of course
>the plot is unimportant, but the false dilemmas nagged at me like when Im
>riding with someone who consistently drives well below the speed limit
>("Uh..what's the problem? C'mon. Let's go!").
>
>This one is not hard to watch, but nothing to write home about. Skip it
>unless you love dance.
I gotta agree with Steve here. I read some of the comments on the
El Klauso
an overwhelming musical comedy experience, let's not throw the infant
out with the spa water here - "Swing Time" is still one of the three
or four best original musicals ever created in Hollywood.
I won't hand you a complete laundry list of positives, but I will note
that Kern's score hits on every attempt, and the direction by George
Stevens is a deeper pool than that created by Mark Sandrich for any of
the previous Astaire/Rogers efforts - Both in terms of emotional range
and sheer visual appeal, the later thanks in no small part to
Cinematographer David Abel.
The score has not one clunker in it, either in song quality or in on-
screen execution - "Just the Way you Look Tonight," "Pick Yourself
Up," "Swing-Time," "Bojangles of Harlem," (Admittedly, one of the
most screamingly racist lyrics ever penned for a film, written by
Dorothy Fields) and "Never Gonna Dance".
The dances by Astaire and Hermes Pan are beyond good - The "Swing Time
Waltz" choreography actually encompasses and advances the plot, and
the "Never Gonna Dance" conception goes far past the confines of
popular dance. Fred's blackface number, unfortunate as the racial
frame is, strikes me as a stylistic and technical accomplishment 30
years in advance of the mainstream. Rogers, always a good reactor, was
finally given the screen time and guidence that allowed her to show
what a good actress she could be.Victor Moore and Helen Broderick are
charming second bananas, capable or involving you emotionally as well
as getting laughs.
As to the plot, admittedly the "I can't have $25,000 or I have to
marry the wrong girl" is thin, but little more so than a nun-nanny who
falls in love with the father or her charges, a poor poet who loves a
girl with tuberculosis, or two Irish lovers who get together because
of mistakenly drinking a love potion. The plot is not the point for
most musicals or operas - the music and the staging of the musical
numbers is ultimately the main concern.
There may be a generational devide here - contemporary audiences seem
to relish a brand of more 'plot intense' musicals, even those without
much memorable music.
For those kvetching, what do you prefer - outside of another of the
Astaire/Rogers vehicles?
steve
On 4-Dec-2009, El Klauso <ChasJ...@aol.com> wrote:
> For those kvetching, what do you prefer - outside of another of the
> Astaire/Rogers vehicles?
"Golddigger of 33"
"Footlight Parade"
Almost any Lubitsch, esp "The Merry Widow"
"Love me Tonight"
"Thank Your Lucky Stars"
"Le Million"
steve
--
"Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under."
H. L. Mencken
El Klauso
EK: "TYLS" over "Swing Time."
Hmmm...O.K., gimme a little time to dal with the implications here...
(Brief passage of time.)
Sorry, but you've gone off the credibility meter...
steve
On 4-Dec-2009, El Klauso <ChasJ...@aol.com> wrote:
Must be broken.
Heres my review (recently posted here):
"Thank Your Lucky Stars" (1943)
This is one of those (usually terrible) war-time musical
extravaganzas...only this one is great. The comedy is hilarious, most of
the songs are terrific in both the music and the (fun) lyrics, the
performances are often suprisingly good..especially by those who are not
known for being particularly musical, and the camera work and editing are
exceptional. The film runs a bit long for my tastes at about 2:07
There is a plot (and sub-plot), which has two hollywood producers putting on
a show (how unusual, eh?) and dealing with a difficult Eddie Cantor in order
to keep Dinah Shore in the production. EC takes a comic beating (calling
him a "good sport" is an understatement) in this film, and is portrayed as a
boorish, egotiostical has-been. At one point, he is mistakenly prepared for
a lobotomy (no, really) and, when he becomes unruly, he is stripped to his
shorts, thrown in a cold shower, and a hose is turned on him for good
measure! When we cut back to him, he's lying unconscious, and the
attendants joke about his "nice shade of blue". "According to his pulse"
the doctor says "he's been dead for three days." Wasnt it great when you
could joke about mistreating the mentally ill? Kind'a bizarre.
Dinah Shore has several numbers, the best being the title song right out of
the gate. Her other two numbers are interesting songs...rather difficult to
sing, and she shows that she has an ear as well as a voice, even if the
songs arent anything to write home about.
John Garfield teams up with Cantor and does a talk-singing number where he
intermittently grabs EC by the throat and throttles him. Garfield cant
sing, but he makes it work so well.
The very sexy Ann Sheridan (those big, beautiful eyes) has a great number
entitled "Love isnt Born". It's a nice song and she can really sing. Here
is a sampling of the lyric that I committed to memory:
Love isnt born.
That's a bit of old fashioned corn.
Let's call a spade a spade.
And if you find more than lemon in your lemonade
you'll know that love isnt born, it's made.
I think we can guess what's going on there.
Hattie McDaniel and an all black cast perform a terrific number called "Ice
Cold Katie" that would keep Don Bogle talking for hours.
Erol Flynn shows his versatility in a charming number where he tells a few
tall tales of his own heroism to his Pub-mates. The chorus goes "He's
winning the war. He's winning the war." ..."And I won the one before."
Flynn interjects. Really terrific.
Cantor has a funny number at the end, smokin' hot babes included. Check out
the long legs on that chick (you'll see what I mean)!
There are a few uninspiring musical segments (Bette Davis, for example), but
they're generally quite good. The comedy really holds this thing together,
and David Butlers direction is outstanding.
Yes, Im totally gay for this (rather politically incorrect) musical. And
it's not even from the 1930s.
Mark
> Fred and Ginger are terrific in thier many dance/musical numbers, yet this
> film just doesnt quite cut it. The music (yes, including "The Way You Look
> Tonight"..why do I hate that song?) is dull and the lyrics arent pleasing to
> my ear. Though the dancing is great (and only Ginger can keep up with
> Fred), the filming of those numbers (one exception: the first number in the
> dance studio) left me cold...too distant and static to capture the grace and
> subtle beauty. The tribute to Bill Robinson (special effects have Fred
> dancing with three shadows) was more interesting than inspired. Even way
> back then, it seems special effects detract rather than add.
>
> As for the plot...it's just a bit too cute and contrived...I kept wondering
> why there was any issue to resolve. So Fred doesnt want to go back to his
> fiance...dont go. And cant the club hire it's own orchestra, or is Gingers
> admirer the only band leader in that little town known as NYC? Of course
> the plot is unimportant, but the false dilemmas nagged at me like when Im
> riding with someone who consistently drives well below the speed limit
> ("Uh..what's the problem? C'mon. Let's go!").
>
> This one is not hard to watch, but nothing to write home about. Skip it
> unless you love dance.
Oh for heaven sakes ... I think this group must contain some of the
biggest film HATERS of all time. This is a complete delight from
beginning to end. Why not just go and sit through "The Road" another
300 times. Perhaps that kind of gray, grim, dullness will make you
happy. Some of you people really need to lighten up and start enjoying
things a little more.
Mark
>
Well, you named the one film that is NOT a "Fred and Ginger" movie.
Care to try again?
Mark
> steve wrote:
> > Fred and Ginger are terrific in thier many dance/musical numbers, yet this
> > film just doesnt quite cut it.
>
> Steve, no ... this is my favorite Astaire/Rogers movie.
>
> The music (yes, including "The Way You Look
>
> > Tonight"..why do I hate that song?) is dull and the lyrics arent pleasing to
> > my ear.
>
> Every time I watch it I spend a week humming and singing and making
> myself a pain around the office. A fine romance, with no kisses, a fine
> romance, my dear this is... See? You've got me doing it right now.
>
> Though the dancing is great
>
> indeed
>
> (and only Ginger can keep up with
>
> > Fred),
>
> It's not just the keeping up -- it's being willowy, pliant in his arms,
> graceful, strong, dazzling, and never missing a step. I think I've
> never seen him dance with his sister Adele, so I'm not absolutely
> certain I'm right about this, but I do believe Ginger Rogers was his
> perfect dance partner and compared to her everybody else was second rate.
Oh, baloney on that. Cyd Charisse was a far better dancer than Ginger
Rogers as was Eleanor Powell. You can often see Ginger's mistakes.
What she had with Fred better than anyone was chemistry. But no one
ever danced with him sexier than Cyd Charisse. Even Barrie Chase was a
better dancer than Ginger.
Mark
> On 4-Dec-2009, El Klauso <ChasJKl...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > For those kvetching, what do you prefer - outside of another of the
> > Astaire/Rogers vehicles?
>
> "Golddigger of 33"
> "Footlight Parade"
Oh, lord, and I guess you're one of two or three. There are actual
reasons that people are still watching Fred and Ginger today and
almost no one is watching those 2 films. It's called "test of time."
> Almost any Lubitsch, esp "The Merry Widow"
I find most Lubitsch musicals (as opposed to his brilliant comedies)
badly dated because the music is too 19th century.
Clifford Blau
<ChasJ...@aol.com> wrote:
>For those kvetching, what do you prefer - outside of another of the
>Astaire/Rogers vehicles?
Starstruck
Rock 'n' Roll High School
Singin' in the Rain
El Klauso
Steve: Must be broken.
Heres my review (recently posted here):
"Thank Your Lucky Stars" (1943)
(Review clipped)
EK: Thanks, steve, but no thanks.
"TYLS" is the kind of time-killer pasticherama that MGM and Pasternack
were fond of fabricating, throwing together the odd star or two - some
very odd, and most evidently between more important projects - into a
tasteless mess of a stone soup stew consisting of generally lame song
and dance. "TYLS" had at least the fairly witty song "They're Either
Too Young or Too Old," memorably delivered by Bette Davis, but outside
of that, the flick is a fairly formless, tasteless concoction.
Glad you can get some pleasure out of it, but give me "Swing Time" any
moment of the day.
steve
On 5-Dec-2009, El Klauso <ChasJ...@aol.com> wrote:
> "They're Either
> Too Young or Too Old," memorably delivered by Bette Davis, but outside
> of that, the flick is a fairly formless, tasteless concoction.
Tasteless...in a way, I agree. It's no artistic achievement (nor an attempt
at one), and the humor is rather low and somewhat crude. But it's funny as
hell, and many of the numbers (and I dont include Bette Davis) are terrific.
steve
El Klauso
(nor an attempt
at one), and the humor is rather low and somewhat crude.
EK: I don't mean tasteless as in 'low taste' or 'crude taste' or 'lack
of artistic taste' - although it probably qualifies for all of the
above. What I mean is that TYLS has no taste, like week-old hospital
food.
steve
I dont get this. You dont find Eddie Cantor funny? Or Ann Sheridans song
delightful and Ann just plain sexy? What about Erol Flynns bit? The bottom
line for me is that TYLS is quite entertaining in a variety of ways, whereas
ST is elegant but dull.
Dave in Toronto
>
> - Show quoted text -
???
What are you saying exactly? Both Fred and Ginger were in the movie.
Dave in Toronto
Petronius
"Dave in Toronto" <dmatt...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:7f4157bd-9076-4fc1...@x15g2000vbr.googlegroups.com...
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Fred and Ginger were not the focus of "Rio", merely featured dancers.
I don't consider it to be a true "Fred & Ginger" movie either.
Petronius
news:8m01h5t7cki8qim6s...@4ax.com...
> Victor Moore wasn't an acceptable substitute.
Moore was awful and his presence makes this one of my lesser favorites of the
Fred & Ginger movies.
The songs are great, as is the dancing but pickle-puss Moore ruins every scene
he's in.
How this film cries out for E.E. Horton!
Mark
> "Dave in Toronto" <dmatthew...@sympatico.ca> wrote in messagenews:7f4157bd-9076-4fc1...@x15g2000vbr.googlegroups.com...
Exactly. If anything, it's "Dolores del Rio" film and when's the last
time you could say that?
Mark
> On 6-Dec-2009, El Klauso <ChasJKl...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > "steve" : Tasteless...in a way, I agree. It's no artistic achievement
> > (nor an attempt
> > at one), and the humor is rather low and somewhat crude.
>
> > EK: I don't mean tasteless as in 'low taste' or 'crude taste' or 'lack
> > of artistic taste' - although it probably qualifies for all of the
> > above. What I mean is that TYLS has no taste, like week-old hospital
> > food.
>
> I dont get this. You dont find Eddie Cantor funny? Or Ann Sheridans song
> delightful and Ann just plain sexy? What about Erol Flynns bit? The bottom
> line for me is that TYLS is quite entertaining in a variety of ways, whereas
> ST is elegant but dull.
> --
the mid 40s. The whole thing is a complete and utter mess.
steve
On 7-Dec-2009, Mark <weiss...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> After "Ziegfeld Follies", it may be the worst of the star pastiches of
> the mid 40s. The whole thing is a complete and utter mess.
Let me give this dead horse one more whack.
Id almost forgotten that I was impressed with the camera work and direction
as well as the music and performances. These types of films are usually
throw aways that rely entirely on the big names and usually offer little
else. But I put it to you that this one is different and superior, with
effective humor, a fun little plot and sub-plot, and very nice musical
numbers. So, while I can understand that you dont like it, I cant see why
it's an "utter mess". Can you elaborate?
thanks,
steve
Avoid normal situations.
> On Dec 4, 2:10??pm, "steve" <st...@steve.com> wrote:
> > On ??4-Dec-2009, El Klauso <ChasJKl...@aol.com> wrote:
> >
> > > For those kvetching, what do you prefer - outside of another of the
> > > Astaire/Rogers vehicles?
> >
> > "Golddigger of 33"
> > "Footlight Parade"
> Oh, lord, and I guess you're one of two or three. There are actual
> reasons that people are still watching Fred and Ginger today and
> almost no one is watching those 2 films. It's called "test of time."
I'd like to be counted as one of the "almost no one" who's still seeing
those two films, please. The latter, in particular, is fabulous IMHO.
--
alt.flame Special Forces
"We have no right to assume that any physical laws exist, or if they have
existed up to now, that they will continue to exist in a similar manner in
the future." -- Max Planck
Avoid normal situations.
> On Nov 25, 9:30??am, "steve" <st...@steve.com> wrote:
[..]
> > This one is not hard to watch, but nothing to write home about. ??Skip it
> > unless you love dance.
> Oh for heaven sakes ... I think this group must contain some of the
> biggest film HATERS of all time.
You should see r.a.m.current-films.