Synecdoche=Lyric Poetry, or Epic?
Alls Quiet
They start off magnificently and wittily, and then degenerate into
madness. So does Synecdoche, but this time the madness is poetry.
Jesus it really is. There are so many things to write about in it,
and
it's not really a film as much as a spiritual labor. It's
uproariously
funny in the first third, funnier than any film I've seen in a long
time. Then it's so painful the pain is almost unwatchable.
Anyway, I know it's been discussed here before, so I'll just start
off
with something mild. Why are all the women in the film given
atavistic
names?
David Oberman
<mut...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Wow. I hate Charles Kaufmann films. I really hate them, generally.
>They start off magnificently and wittily, and then degenerate into
>madness. So does Synecdoche, but this time the madness is poetry.
>Jesus it really is. There are so many things to write about in it,
>and
>it's not really a film as much as a spiritual labor. It's
>uproariously
>funny in the first third, funnier than any film I've seen in a long
>time. Then it's so painful the pain is almost unwatchable.
A movie with such a name deserves to be seen, as far as I'm concerned,
so I mean to look for it.
_______
Assassins!
-- Toscanini, to his orchestra
william
> Wow. I hate Charles Kaufmann films. I really hate them, generally.
I don't hate Charles Kaufmann films. I just come away marvelling at
their empty cleverness. "Synecdoche" is -- as far as I'm concerned --
the best of the bunch. Even so, there is something distant and non-
involving. Kaufman makes films for voyeurs. He constatntly reminds you
that you're watching.
William
www.williamahearn.com
Kingo Gondo
"Alls Quiet" <mut...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:0c149985-5cc9-4c22...@k17g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
I thought it started out fantastic then kind of lost its way (or maybe just
lost me). But to be fair, this is not a film to judge off a single viewing,
so I am going to withhold final judgment until I see it again--which may be
a while.
Mr. Hole the Magnificent
> "Alls Quiet" <mute...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
It took me what felt like forever to get through my rental copy of
this film. Roger Ebert who I normally like put it atop his list of
best films of the 2000s, which to me is ridiculous.
Flasherly
<classic.mr.h...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I thought it started out fantastic then kind of lost its way (or maybe just
> > lost me). But to be fair, this is not a film to judge off a single viewing,
> > so I am going to withhold final judgment until I see it again--which may be
> > a while.
>
> It took me what felt like forever to get through my rental copy of
> this film. Roger Ebert who I normally like put it atop his list of
> best films of the 2000s, which to me is ridiculous.
Not as simple as All That Jazz. Then things were so much more
obviously simpler 30 years ago. Simpler than how I'd recall Scheider
describing two prominent schools of theatric absurdity, a) the
insularity of being stuffed into a box of cotton from a standpoint of
the Westcoast hyperformalistic mundanity, or b) a schizoid embolism
foreshadowing an Eastcoast sincerity for attending the minuteness of
tragic consequences.
Alls Quiet
>
> I don't hate Charles Kaufmann films. I just come away marvelling at
> their empty cleverness. "Synecdoche" is -- as far as I'm concerned --
> the best of the bunch. Even so, there is something distant and non-
> involving. Kaufman makes films for voyeurs. He constatntly reminds you
> that you're watching.
Pople who fawn over any of his films are pretentious; I guess I hereby
become one. But this film--I couldn't take my eyes off of it--which is
my definition of whether a film is good/great.
Your point about his scripting for voyeurs is valid. Every film before
Synecdoche WAS empty *but* clever (all aching, ass-numbing,
interminable two-+ hours of empty, aching cleverness...). How I will
always remember the depressing winter day several years ago, suffering
through Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind and the realization I
paid to be mocked. At the beginning, Synecdoche seemed as if it would
descend into the same almost sadistic craziness.
And it DID descend into craziness. The only thing, this time, was the
dialogue was poetry, a case of a writer-in-spite-of-himself. I think
Kaufmann may have intended to mock his audience as with all his other
films, but ended up giving two hours of a cinematic epic poetry
reading, mad but genius.
Anyway, my question is unanswered, so I'll ask again and add a few
more (SPOILERS). I have my own answer to all but the first, but would
like to hear what others think:
1) Why the atavistic female names?
2) Why is Hazel's house on fire throughout the film?
3) The female lead who is the True Love is not sexually/socially
desirable until the very end. Why does Hazel split into two at that
point?
4) What is the significance of Tom Noonan's character and then Dianne
Weist's?
5) Why the dirigible?
6) What is the significance of the number 31Y (if any), and what
Jungian role do Ellen and climactically her mother fill?
Howard Brazee
<mut...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> I don't hate Charles Kaufmann films. I just come away marvelling at
>> their empty cleverness. "Synecdoche" is -- as far as I'm concerned --
>> the best of the bunch. Even so, there is something distant and non-
>> involving. Kaufman makes films for voyeurs. He constatntly reminds you
>> that you're watching.
>
>Pople who fawn over any of his films are pretentious; I guess I hereby
>become one. But this film--I couldn't take my eyes off of it--which is
>my definition of whether a film is good/great.
Why? Some people fawn over Kaufmann films, others fawn over Disney
films. Different tastes - are both groups pretentious?
--
"In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found,
than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace
to the legislature, and not to the executive department."
- James Madison
Alls Quiet
>
> Some people fawn over Kaufmann films, others fawn over Disney
> films. Different tastes - are both groups pretentious?
No.
william
>Why are all the women in the film given atavistic names?
OK, I'll bite: What's doth "atavistic names" mean when it's at home?
William
www.williamahearn.com
Alls Quiet
>
> OK, I'll bite: What's doth "atavistic names" mean when it's at home?
:) Atavism (noun): "Throwback," "skipping a generation," "from a
former era," etc. The female characters all have early twentieth-
century names: Adele, Olive, Hazel, Claire, Ellen. That's why I asked
if Synecdoche falls into the lyric or epic poetry category. If he
named his wife Tiffany and his mistress Kaitlyn and his daughter
Madison, I don't know if the film would seem as...I don't know--for
the ages?
william
>
> :) Atavism (noun): "Throwback," "skipping a generation," "from a
> former era," etc. The female characters all have early twentieth-
> century names: Adele, Olive, Hazel, Claire, Ellen. That's why I asked
> if Synecdoche falls into the lyric or epic poetry category. If he
> named his wife Tiffany and his mistress Kaitlyn and his daughter
> Madison, I don't know if the film would seem as...I don't know--for
> the ages?
That's what I thought you meant except I don't think names like Ida or
Gladys will be back. Claire is stll around -- at least with the Irish
-- and Ellen still appears regularly. But I get what you mean and
agree. Hey, that was some MacArthur grant that Caden Cotard received.
Oh, and go look up what "cotard" means if you want to play with the
names.
William
www.williamahearn.com
Alls Quiet
>
> That's what I thought you meant except I don't think names like Ida or
> Gladys will be back. Claire is stll around -- at least with the Irish
> -- and Ellen still appears regularly. But I get what you mean and
> agree. Hey, that was some MacArthur grant that Caden Cotard received.
> Oh, and go look up what "cotard" means if you want to play with the
> names.
Bertha and Florence feel slighted. As for "Cotard"--that's why I don't
like Kaufmann's films. They really are about psychotic depression, and
for moviegoers who "LOL" and "u" and text message rather than read to
say how great a film Eternal Sunshine or Malkovich are-- That's why I
called Kaufmann-likers pretentious. They don't realize they're paying
to watch someone's psychosis. This might make Synecdoche just another
scam if it wasn't so poetic.