The Perceptive Camera of Bimal Roy
Ritu
Posting this article after a long hiatus. It is a write-up on the
cinema of one of my favourite directors.... Bimal Roy (after last
week's tribute on SD Burman, rediff seems to be profiling just the
right people :-))
Here is the article. My few comments are preceeded with my initials
**RC**
Await your comments
Enjoy!
Cheers
Ritu
==============================================================================
http://www.rediff.com/entertai/2002/dec/09dinesh.htm
While fellow filmmaking greats like V Shantaram, Raj Kapoor and
Mehboob Khan's hits straddled three to four decades, Bimal Roy etched
his reputation as one of the foremost Hindi film directors (with two
hat-tricks for Best Director Awards and seven awards in all), within a
short span of a little over a decade.
****************RC*************
It's quite amazing. Though filmfare awards do not mean much. Bimal Roy
was a hot favourite with them in the late 50s. And this is one
selection I agree with. And if filmfare awards were actually based on
popular taste then I must say popular taste was also much more
discerning those days. A look into the Filmfare award history shows
that till the mid 80s it was the good films that got the awards
mostly. Something went terribly wrong after that. Ofcourse, the lesser
said about Filmfare's music awards the better!
*****************************************************
Bimal Roy's ponder-worthy yet crowd-pleasing cinema did not rely on
big-budget grandeur. He used his perceptive camera lens that seemed to
pierce into the human condition as well as bring the subtextual
context into sharp relief, to spin socially relevant autobiographical
stories (Biraj Bahu, Devdas, Madhumati, Sujata, Bandini), about the
ordinary person caught in extraordinary situations.
******************RC****************************
Autobiographical?! Was Bimal Roy's wife a tribal girl in her past life
:-)? (Madhumati)
*********************************************
Bimal Roy's Landmark Films
Year Film Cast
1953 Do Bigha Zameen Balraj Sahni, Nirupa Roy
1953 Parineeta Ashok Kumar, Meena Kumari
1954 Biraj Bahu Kamini Kaushal, Abhi Bhattacharya
1955 Devdas Dilip Kumar, Vyjayanthimala, Suchitra Sen
1958 Yahudi Dilip Kumar, Meena Kumari
1958 Madhumati Dilip Kumar, Vyjayanthimala
1959 Sujata Nutan, Sunil Dutt
1960 Parakh Motilal, Sadhana
1961 Kabuliwala
[only produced] Balraj Sahni
1963 Bandini Ashok Kumar, Nutan, Dharmendra
An aesthete, Roy's talents first flourished in New Theatres film
studio in the Kolkata of the 1930s. While Nitin Bose and P C Barua
were fashioning early classics, Roy started as a camera assistant and
later cinematographer for landmarks like Devdas and Mukti.
Roy made his directorial debut with Udayer Pathey (1944), a
sensational success about an author's fight against exploitation. It
proved a benchmark in social realism in Indian cinema. When the film
was released in Hindi as Hamrahi, Roy was ardently wooed by Mumbai.
Roy came to Mumbai, apparently at Ashok Kumar's behest, to direct
Bombay Talkies's Maa (1952).
With Bombay Talkies on a downward spiral, Ashok Kumar asked Roy to
direct his own production Parineeta (1953), starring Meena Kumari and
himself. Influenced by the neo-realist Italian cinema, Roy also
decided to make a stark film. Defying friends who insisted he did not
have the temperament of a producer Roy started his production concern
with Do Bigha Zameen (1953). The film starred Balraj Sahni and Nirupa
Roy.
The most productive phase of his career had begun. Parineeta, based on
Sarat Chandra Chattopadhyay's novel, was a sweet little love story
about neighbours, conventions and inhibitions; but the deeply humanist
Do Bigha Zameen which involves us in a poor peasant's visceral
struggle to save his patch of land won wide acclaim at Cannes and
Karlovy Vary Film Festivals and went on to become a cinematic
reference point back home.
Roy was acclaimed for the realism with which he lined the film. Nirupa
Roy remembers wearing unwashed clothes from Chor Bazaar while Sahni
(in a tour de force performance) practised pulling a rickshaw on the
Kolkata roads for days.
Do Bigha Zameen did not rely purely on dialogue, it also had a rich
cinematic vocabulary. Its richly textured black-and-white imagery is
justifiably famous, especially the last shot where the peasant family
return only to wretchedly gape at a factory standing on their do bigha
zameen.
In Roy's Devdas (1955) too, with the aid of cinematographer Kamal
Bose, Roy achieved fascinating mood lighting which enhanced its
tight-lipped protagonist's (Dilip Kumar's) tormented emotional
oscillations. Devdas's last journey in a rattling cart, Paro's
midnight offer of elopement and the top shot of Chandramukhi swirling
in a dance are sequences which Roy pulled off with finesse.
Famous Songs of Bimal Roy's Films
Song Film Singers
Hariyala sawan dhol bajata aaya Do Bigha Zameen Lata Mangeshkar,
Manna Dey
Gore gore haathon
mein mehndi Parineeta Asha Bhosle
Chhotasa ghar hoga Naukri Kishore Kumar
Aan milo Shyam sanware Devdas Geeta Dutt, Manna Dey
Yeh mera deewanapan hai Yahudi Mukesh
Aaja re Madhumati Lata Mangeshkar
Jalte hai jiske liye Sujata Talat Mehmood
O sajna barkha
bahaar aayee Parakh Lata Mangeshkar
Aye mere pyaare watan Kabuliwala Manna Dey
Mere saajan hai uspaar Bandini S D Burman
*************RC*********************************
This displays quite a wide use of music directors Arun Kumar, Salil
Chowdhary, Shankar Jaikishen and ofcourse SD Burman. He managed to get
a memorable output from them all.
********************************************************************
One of the most awarded Indian directors, Roy was awarded the first
three Filmfare Awards for Best Director over three consecutive years
for Do Bigha Zameen, Parineeta and Biraj Bahu.
Kamini Kaushal remembers Roy asking her to read the Sarat Chandra
novel on which the film was based before arriving for the shoot.
Never one to be extravagant with his film budgets or time, Roy's need
to express himself through films resulted in his being highly prolific
in 1954 alone, besides Biraj Bahu, he also directed Naukri (Kishore
Kumar, Sheila Ramani) and Baap Bete (Ranjan, Nalini Jaywant).
Roy gave breaks to many fledgling directors by producing small and
often experimental films like Amanat (Bharat Bhushan, Chaand Usmani),
Apradhi Kaun (Mala Sinha, Abhi Bhattachrya), Usne Kaha Tha (Sunil
Dutt, Nanda), Kabuliwala (Balraj Sahni) and Benazir (Ashok Kumar,
Meena Kumari).
His directorial ventures may have been esoteric and high minded, but
they were also accessible with hummable songs and an overwhelming
poignancy in the human interactions.
One of his biggest hits was Madhumati (1958). Cynics said Roy had
compromised by pandering to popular taste with this reincarnation,
romance and retribution saga. But the sheer lyricism and intensity
that Roy imbued the musical with made the film an unforgettable
experience.
******************RC**************************
What is the opinion on that one? Do you guys think Bimal Roy pandered
to popular taste in Madhumati?
*************************************************************************
Madhumati won Roy Filmfare's Best Director Award setting off another
hat-trick with awards for Sujata and Parakh.
Roy's collaboration with Nutan resulted in two dramatic classics.
Sujata (1959), the first, charmingly and convincingly argued for a
more humanistic society where caste differences did not determine a
person's destiny.
After Sujata, Nutan opted for matrimony and a hiatus from films.
During this phase, Roy made two films with newcomer Sadhana, Parakh
and Prem Patra.
When Nutan returned to movies after Mohnish's birth, Roy started work
on Bandini (1963), arguably Nutan's most famous performance ever and
Roy's best realised work.
***********************RC*************************
I agree, this is by far one of Bimal Roy's best. Everything about the
film is outstqanding. The direction, the art direction, the acting and
ofcourse the music.
***********************************************************
Roy carefully chose his story from a work of literature. Bandini was
based on a novel by Jarasandha. Roy and Nutan brought to startling
life a remarkable woman whose binding love for a revolutionary brings
about her ruination as well as deliverance.
Roy's polished filmmaking continued to rely on searing visuals,
whether it was Sujata soundlessly switching off the lights (of her
hopes) after being serenaded on the phone by her lover; or the long
wordless scene in Bandini where Nutan, beaten by life, is pushed
towards murder.
After Bandini, Roy was to start a film, but death claimed him in 1966.
Roy was only 57, but his genius spreads through Hrishikesh Mukherji,
Gulzar, Basu Bhattacharya, the actors and the musicians who had
benefitted from their association
Ritu
> Hi Folks,
>
> Posting this article after a long hiatus. It is a write-up on the
> cinema of one of my favourite directors.... Bimal Roy (after last
> week's tribute on SD Burman, rediff seems to be profiling just the
> right people :-))
>
> Here is the article. My few comments are preceeded with my initials
> **RC**
I apologise for following up on my own mail a la Habshi.. but here is
one point I missed to comment on.
=========================================================================
>
> After Bandini, Roy was to start a film, but death claimed him in 1966.
> Roy was only 57, but his genius spreads through Hrishikesh Mukherji,
> Gulzar, Basu Bhattacharya, the actors and the musicians who had
> benefitted from their association
The Bimal Roy school of film making definitely did continue with
Hrishikesh Mukherjee, Gulzar and Basu Bhattacharya.. more so with the
first two. However, I have always felt both Hrishikesh Mukherjee and
Gulzar lacked the visual aesthetics of Bimal Roy. They sure made
minimalistic films like Bimal Roy, they did not go over-board in the
budgets and concetrated on the sub=textual like him but what they
could not achieve is the visual beauty that Bimal Roy displayed.
I remember catching 'Kali Ghata Chhaye' on TV recently. There is a
shot of Nutun against a wall holding a curtain. There is a gentle
breeze that blows through her hair and the curtain. There is nothing
else in the frame except a plainly dressed Nutun and the curtain. Yet
the effect is extremely eye-catching and beautiful. That's Bimal Roy
for you.
Cheers
Ritu
Shishir Yerramilli
Then how come Sholay didnt win any awards except that of Sound
Design?To my recollection Deewar got a lot of awards,mind you I love
that film and have probably watched it atleast 50 times but I doubt if
it was Bimal Roy's kind of film!
Here are a list of films that won the awards followed by the name of
the producer.Which do you feel deserved and which didnt?Also if you
can provide the competing films of that year,it would be appreciated.
1970 Khilona L.V. Prasad
1971 Anand Hrishikesh Mukherjee & N.C. Sippy
1972 Be-Imaan Sohanlal Kanwar
1973 Anuraag Shakti Samanta
1974 Rajnigandha Suresh Jindal
1975 Deewaar Gulshan Rai
1976 Mausam Mallikarjuna Rao
1977 Bhumika Lalit M. Bijlani And Freni M.Variava
1978 Main Tulsi Tere Aangan Ki Raj Khosla
1979 Junoon Shashi Kapoor
1980 Khubsoorat N.C. Sippy And Hrishikesh Mukherjee
1981 Kalyug Shashi Kapoor
1982 Shakti Mushir-Riaz
1983 Ardh Satya Manmohan Shetty And Pradeep Uppoor
1984 Sparsh Basu Bhattacharya
1985 Ram Teri Ganga Maili Randhir Kapoor
1988 Qayamat Se Qayamat Tak Nasir Husain
1989 Maine Pyar Kiya Tarachand Barjatya
Something went terribly wrong after that. Ofcourse, the lesser
> said about Filmfare's music awards the better!
> *****************************************************
>
> Bimal Roy's ponder-worthy yet crowd-pleasing cinema did not rely on
> big-budget grandeur. He used his perceptive camera lens that seemed to
> pierce into the human condition as well as bring the subtextual
> context into sharp relief, to spin socially relevant autobiographical
> stories (Biraj Bahu, Devdas, Madhumati, Sujata, Bandini), about the
> ordinary person caught in extraordinary situations.
>
> ******************RC****************************
> Autobiographical?! Was Bimal Roy's wife a tribal girl in her past life
> :-)? (Madhumati)
> *********************************************
Perhaps Bimal Roy had regular contact with Miss Cleo!
>
> Bimal Roy's Landmark Films
> Year Film Cast
>
Yes,whatever happenned to all that bizarre level of
professionalism?Except for Kamal Haasan,Om Puri and Nana
Patekar,hardly any actors had practiced it!Lately it seems to be
making a comeback.eg Vivek Oberoi staying a slums for weeks and
tanning his skin for the role in Company.
>
> Do Bigha Zameen did not rely purely on dialogue, it also had a rich
> cinematic vocabulary. Its richly textured black-and-white imagery is
> justifiably famous, especially the last shot where the peasant family
> return only to wretchedly gape at a factory standing on their do bigha
> zameen.
I dont remember the movie too well but ouch!People really dug
tragedies back then didnt they?!
>
> In Roy's Devdas (1955) too, with the aid of cinematographer Kamal
> Bose, Roy achieved fascinating mood lighting which enhanced its
> tight-lipped protagonist's (Dilip Kumar's) tormented emotional
> oscillations. Devdas's last journey in a rattling cart, Paro's
> midnight offer of elopement and the top shot of Chandramukhi swirling
> in a dance are sequences which Roy pulled off with finesse.
Of course it is not a patch on Bharat Shah's Devdas.Just kidding....
deleted....
>
> One of the most awarded Indian directors, Roy was awarded the first
> three Filmfare Awards for Best Director over three consecutive years
> for Do Bigha Zameen, Parineeta and Biraj Bahu.
>
> Kamini Kaushal remembers Roy asking her to read the Sarat Chandra
> novel on which the film was based before arriving for the shoot.
>
> Never one to be extravagant with his film budgets or time, Roy's need
> to express himself through films resulted in his being highly prolific
> in 1954 alone, besides Biraj Bahu, he also directed Naukri (Kishore
> Kumar, Sheila Ramani) and Baap Bete (Ranjan, Nalini Jaywant).
>
> Roy gave breaks to many fledgling directors by producing small and
> often experimental films like Amanat (Bharat Bhushan, Chaand Usmani),
> Apradhi Kaun (Mala Sinha, Abhi Bhattachrya),
AK was pretty interesting.Bimal Roy seems to have been the RGV of his
time!
Usne Kaha Tha (Sunil
> Dutt, Nanda), Kabuliwala (Balraj Sahni) and Benazir (Ashok Kumar,
> Meena Kumari).
>
> His directorial ventures may have been esoteric and high minded, but
> they were also accessible with hummable songs and an overwhelming
> poignancy in the human interactions.
>
> One of his biggest hits was Madhumati (1958). Cynics said Roy had
> compromised by pandering to popular taste with this reincarnation,
> romance and retribution saga. But the sheer lyricism and intensity
> that Roy imbued the musical with made the film an unforgettable
> experience.
>
> ******************RC**************************
> What is the opinion on that one? Do you guys think Bimal Roy pandered
> to popular taste in Madhumati?
I feel he was making a film he felt deeply about.It just happened to
appeal to popular tastes.Nothing wrong with the latter but the
criticism is unjustified.What is odd that it was probably one of his
more optimistic films!Life goes on....This movie is one of all time
favorites!Great performances by Yusufbhai and VM(for a change!).Salil
was surreal!
> *************************************************************************
>
> Madhumati won Roy Filmfare's Best Director Award setting off another
> hat-trick with awards for Sujata and Parakh.
>
> Roy's collaboration with Nutan resulted in two dramatic classics.
> Sujata (1959), the first, charmingly and convincingly argued for a
> more humanistic society where caste differences did not determine a
> person's destiny.
This one also a great catfight between Nutan and whatsherface.
>
> After Sujata, Nutan opted for matrimony and a hiatus from films.
> During this phase, Roy made two films with newcomer Sadhana, Parakh
> and Prem Patra.
All I will say is that Sadhna was just yummm!
>
> When Nutan returned to movies after Mohnish's birth, Roy started work
> on Bandini (1963), arguably Nutan's most famous performance ever and
> Roy's best realised work.
>
> ***********************RC*************************
> I agree, this is by far one of Bimal Roy's best. Everything about the
> film is outstqanding. The direction, the art direction, the acting and
> ofcourse the music.
> ***********************************************************
>
> Roy carefully chose his story from a work of literature. Bandini was
> based on a novel by Jarasandha. Roy and Nutan brought to startling
> life a remarkable woman whose binding love for a revolutionary brings
> about her ruination as well as deliverance.
Thats what happens to women who fall for the 'dangerous' rebel
types!
> Roy's polished filmmaking continued to rely on searing visuals,
> whether it was Sujata soundlessly switching off the lights (of her
> hopes) after being serenaded on the phone by her lover; or the long
> wordless scene in Bandini where Nutan, beaten by life, is pushed
> towards murder.
>
> After Bandini, Roy was to start a film, but death claimed him in 1966.
> Roy was only 57, but his genius spreads through Hrishikesh Mukherji,
'Only' 57!!BTW South Carolina Senator Strom Thurmond is going to be a
grandfather at only 100! :-)
V
"Ritu" <rc0...@rediffmail.com> wrote in message
news:8777cccd.02121...@posting.google.com...
> Hi Folks,
>
> Posting this article after a long hiatus. It is a write-up on the
> cinema of one of my favourite directors.... Bimal Roy (after last
> week's tribute on SD Burman, rediff seems to be profiling just the
> right people :-))
>
> Here is the article. My few comments are preceeded with my initials
> **RC**
>
> Await your comments
> Enjoy!
>
> Cheers
> Ritu
>
>
============================================================================
==
> http://www.rediff.com/entertai/2002/dec/09dinesh.htm
>
Thank you Ritu for the wonderful article. I haven't seen a lot of his works,
only Sujata, Bandini, Madhumati and Do Beegha Jameen. But I think his movies
are absolutely amazing. The cinematography, the music, the direction,
everything. .
- v
Girish Bhat
>
> Posting this article after a long hiatus. It is a write-up on the
yeah, yeah. Whatever. ;-)
> It's quite amazing. Though filmfare awards do not mean much. Bimal Roy
> was a hot favourite with them in the late 50s. And this is one
> selection I agree with. And if filmfare awards were actually based on
> popular taste then I must say popular taste was also much more
> discerning those days. A look into the Filmfare award history shows
Filmfare awards were NEVER about popular taste. Need proof? Dilip
Kumar won 5,
Dev Anand one. Hang on, hang on, Maybe popular taste WAS more
discerning in the good old days! ;-0
Nice post. But you have proven yourself not only to be a Usenet
slanderer but also a web pirate. ;-)
Ritu
> > http://www.rediff.com/entertai/2002/dec/09dinesh.htm
> >
> >
> > While fellow filmmaking greats like V Shantaram, Raj Kapoor and
> > Mehboob Khan's hits straddled three to four decades, Bimal Roy etched
> > his reputation as one of the foremost Hindi film directors (with two
> > hat-tricks for Best Director Awards and seven awards in all), within a
> > short span of a little over a decade.
> >
> > ****************RC*************
> > It's quite amazing. Though filmfare awards do not mean much. Bimal Roy
> > was a hot favourite with them in the late 50s. And this is one
> > selection I agree with. And if filmfare awards were actually based on
> > popular taste then I must say popular taste was also much more
> > discerning those days.
> > A look into the Filmfare award history shows
> > that till the mid 80s it was the good films that got the awards
> > mostly.
>
> Then how come Sholay didnt win any awards except that of Sound
> Design?To my recollection Deewar got a lot of awards,mind you I love
> that film and have probably watched it atleast 50 times but I doubt if
> it was Bimal Roy's kind of film!
I think by the Sholay/Deewar time the BR kind of films were out of
vogue. Frankly, I am not really a connoissuer of the Sholay brand of
films so a Deewar and Sholay both seem equal to me. Maybe you could
elaborate on why you think Sholay should have got the award instead.
>
> Here are a list of films that won the awards followed by the name of
> the producer.Which do you feel deserved and which didnt?Also if you
> can provide the competing films of that year,it would be appreciated.
I have an idea.. lets take each year from 1960 and discuss the films
in that year and see which one we would have given the award to? What
do you say? Alok, you are the research Guru. Could you possibly get
out the films for 1960 from some web-site?
>
>
> 1970 Khilona L.V. Prasad
A good film.. but it's been very long since I saw it, so I might be
off the mark
> 1971 Anand Hrishikesh Mukherjee & N.C. Sippy
Beautiful film.. well deserved.
> 1972 Be-Imaan Sohanlal Kanwar
No idea. Haven't seen or heard of the film. Was this the film that had
a Narendra Chanchal song?
> 1973 Anuraag Shakti Samanta
Ages since I saw the film but it had a nice human interest story and
ofcourse good music. Again depends upon the competitors
> 1974 Rajnigandha Suresh Jindal
Good film. Well deserved.
> 1975 Deewaar Gulshan Rai
Depends upon what the competition was
> 1976 Mausam Mallikarjuna Rao
Beautiful film. Well deserved
> 1977 Bhumika Lalit M. Bijlani And Freni M.Variava
Haven't seen it in a long time. Don't remember
> 1978 Main Tulsi Tere Aangan Ki Raj Khosla
Kitsch. Should have gone to something better.
> 1979 Junoon Shashi Kapoor
Great film. Again well deserved though don't know about the
competition.
> 1980 Khubsoorat N.C. Sippy And Hrishikesh Mukherjee
Nice and sweet film.. wonder what the competition was. I have a soft
corner for Hrishikesh Mukherjee so I'll endorse it :-)
> 1981 Kalyug Shashi Kapoor
Good film
> 1982 Shakti Mushir-Riaz
Again good film though one needs to know about the competition.
> 1983 Ardh Satya Manmohan Shetty And Pradeep Uppoor
Haven't seen this... it's highly acclaimed though so I would give it a
benefit of doubt.
> 1984 Sparsh Basu Bhattacharya
Beautiful film. Well deserved
> 1985 Ram Teri Ganga Maili Randhir Kapoor
Here is where the decline starts.
> 1988 Qayamat Se Qayamat Tak Nasir Husain
And more of it. Compare a theme like QSQT with Sparsh
> 1989 Maine Pyar Kiya Tarachand Barjatya
And then the pitts!!
I had actually seen a list of 'Best Director' Filmfare awards and the
selection of films there was better. I wonder what distinguishes a
best director from a best film. Obviously a film will be good if it is
directed well. A little ambigous if you ask me. Anyway if the janta is
interested we could pump some life into the group by discussing
filmfare awards for each year.
> >
> > ******************RC****************************
> > Autobiographical?! Was Bimal Roy's wife a tribal girl in her past life
> > :-)? (Madhumati)
> > *********************************************
>
> Perhaps Bimal Roy had regular contact with Miss Cleo!
:-D! I wonder if anyone believes Miss Cleo
> >
> > Roy was acclaimed for the realism with which he lined the film. Nirupa
> > Roy remembers wearing unwashed clothes from Chor Bazaar while Sahni
> > (in a tour de force performance) practised pulling a rickshaw on the
> > Kolkata roads for days.
>
> Yes,whatever happenned to all that bizarre level of
> professionalism?Except for Kamal Haasan,Om Puri and Nana
> Patekar,hardly any actors had practiced it!Lately it seems to be
> making a comeback.eg Vivek Oberoi staying a slums for weeks and
> tanning his skin for the role in Company.
I think even in those times there were a handful like Balraj Sahni,
Dilip Kumar and Nutun who practiced it. I'm sure Dev Anand did nothing
of that kind. Neither did Raj Kapoor! Interestingly, a common factor
in all the above mentioned names is that there were/are all 'method'
actors as opposed to spontaneous actors (No I don't include Dev Anand
and Raj Kapoor in that list). And now to think of it. Can't think of
any celebrated actor who was actually a spontaneous actor!!
>
> >
> > Do Bigha Zameen did not rely purely on dialogue, it also had a rich
> > cinematic vocabulary. Its richly textured black-and-white imagery is
> > justifiably famous, especially the last shot where the peasant family
> > return only to wretchedly gape at a factory standing on their do bigha
> > zameen.
>
> I dont remember the movie too well but ouch!People really dug
> tragedies back then didnt they?!
True and some of them really bizzare. Watch Dilip Kumar films for
that. There is are films like 'Deedar' where the tragedy is needless.
'Do Bhiga Zameen' on the other hand does not belong to that class.
It's more about realism than Shakespearan tragedy (that was the order
of the day in those times). The nation had just emerged from immense
suffering and that reflected in the films. DBZ was also about grit and
human spirit. The will to fight for their little piece of land. If
this film did not end the way it did... it would have been lost. There
was no other ending for it.
Incidentally, Do Bhiga Zameen is anti-captitalist more than anything
else. Again, a common theme with the IPTA crowd.
> >
> > Roy gave breaks to many fledgling directors by producing small and
> > often experimental films like Amanat (Bharat Bhushan, Chaand Usmani),
> > Apradhi Kaun (Mala Sinha, Abhi Bhattachrya),
>
> AK was pretty interesting.Bimal Roy seems to have been the RGV of his
> time!
Interesting observation. Though when it comes to his own films I find
nothing avant-garde about them. They were very much within the
mainstream however still touched your heart and mind.
> >
> > ******************RC**************************
> > What is the opinion on that one? Do you guys think Bimal Roy pandered
> > to popular taste in Madhumati?
>
> I feel he was making a film he felt deeply about.It just happened to
> appeal to popular tastes.Nothing wrong with the latter but the
> criticism is unjustified.What is odd that it was probably one of his
> more optimistic films!Life goes on....This movie is one of all time
> favorites!Great performances by Yusufbhai and VM(for a change!).Salil
> was surreal!
I agree with that one. A good film can also be popular. One need not
make films about social issues all the time. But I guess in those days
social issues were in focus and most film-makers could not ignore
them. And again interesting observation.. it certainly had a ring of
optimism throughout. Not only Salil but the film itself was surreal.
What particularly stands out after all this time is Vyjayanthimala's
introduction with 'Aaja re Pardesi'. Great cinematography. That's what
I was saying before. I can't seem to recall either Gulzar or
Hrishikesh Mukherjee display that kind of aesthetic sense.
>
> >
> > Madhumati won Roy Filmfare's Best Director Award setting off another
> > hat-trick with awards for Sujata and Parakh.
> >
> > Roy's collaboration with Nutan resulted in two dramatic classics.
> > Sujata (1959), the first, charmingly and convincingly argued for a
> > more humanistic society where caste differences did not determine a
> > person's destiny.
>
> This one also a great catfight between Nutan and whatsherface.
What was that one? I don't remember. Are you confusing this with
'Seema' by any chance?
> > Roy carefully chose his story from a work of literature. Bandini was
> > based on a novel by Jarasandha. Roy and Nutan brought to startling
> > life a remarkable woman whose binding love for a revolutionary brings
> > about her ruination as well as deliverance.
>
> Thats what happens to women who fall for the 'dangerous' rebel
> types!
Sorry comrade, that warning comes just about 70 years too late! No
more revolutionaries any more!
> > After Bandini, Roy was to start a film, but death claimed him in 1966.
> > Roy was only 57, but his genius spreads through Hrishikesh Mukherji,
>
> 'Only' 57!!BTW South Carolina Senator Strom Thurmond is going to be a
> grandfather at only 100! :-)
!! A fact that comes to my notice is that most artists from the Golden
Era died pretty young. Guru Dutt went at 40, Geeta Dutt at 42, Saigal
at 40, Geeta Bali at 35?, Madhubala at 35, Shailendra, Jaikishen,
Madan Mohan all went before 50, Mukesh, Rafi, Roshan all went around
55. By that yardstick Bimal Roy at 57 and Dada Burman at 69 lived
quite long!!!
Makes one ponder though. What is it about the intensly creative lives
these people live. It finally takes toll on them. Reminds me of Van
Gogh.
Cheers
Ritu
Vikram
"Girish Bhat" <giris...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:670ce6f3.02121...@posting.google.com...
>
> Filmfare awards were NEVER about popular taste. Need proof? Dilip
> Kumar won 5,
> Dev Anand one. Hang on, hang on, Maybe popular taste WAS more
> discerning in the good old days! ;-0
>
Altho' I would consider films like QSQT or DDLJ or Lamhe contemporary
classics, these wins were dictated more by commercial success, rather than
discernment by a public that was already dumbing down in the 80s ... the
lack of good commercial cinema meant that parallel cinema reaped the popular
awards by default in the early 80s. Hence Bhumika and Sparsh winning despite
performing indifferently at the box office. Whenever there WAS a commerical
alternative, like Prem Rog for instance, it would be those films stealing a
march on more aesthetic cinema. In fact when the Filmfare Awards returned
from the two-year hiatus with a new sponsor, and Simi helming the show, it
had already gone commercial with a vengeance. An example, Sonu Walia won
over Anuradha Patel. It is a forgone conclusion that Devdas will sweep the
popular awards this year despite its obvious imperfections.
--- Vikram
Girish Bhat
> Altho' I would consider films like QSQT or DDLJ or Lamhe contemporary
> classics, these wins were dictated more by commercial success, rather than
What I really meant was that FF awards have ALWAYS been a bad joke.
Not to take seriously. ;-)
> discernment by a public that was already dumbing down in the 80s ... the
> lack of good commercial cinema meant that parallel cinema reaped the popular
> awards by default in the early 80s. Hence Bhumika and Sparsh winning despite
> performing indifferently at the box office. Whenever there WAS a commerical
> alternative, like Prem Rog for instance, it would be those films stealing a
> march on more aesthetic cinema. In fact when the Filmfare Awards returned
That was nothing but idiot film journos of Filmfare taking themselves
far too seriously and deciding to support the "art" cinema movement.
Besides, RK was a big-shot. An over-rated moron but still a big shot.
Naturally they had to please HIM.
Deepaks
"Ritu" <rc0...@rediffmail.com> wrote
> Hi Folks,
>
> ****************RC*************
> It's quite amazing. Though filmfare awards do not mean much. Bimal Roy
> was a hot favourite with them in the late 50s. And this is one
> selection I agree with. And if filmfare awards were actually based on
> popular taste then I must say popular taste was also much more
> discerning those days. A look into the Filmfare award history shows
> that till the mid 80s it was the good films that got the awards
> mostly. Something went terribly wrong after that. Ofcourse, the lesser
> said about Filmfare's music awards the better!
> *****************************************************
I seem to vaguely recall that the popular choice thing came later for the
filmfare awards and perhaps initially, they were just decided by a group of
persons nominated by the magazine, so in way, perhaps these were kind of
'jury awards'. Another difference could be that in those times, the sensible
cinema was still quite close to mainstream cinema and more accessible to
masses than the parallel cinema, which came later.
Deepaks
rkusenet
"Deepaks" <fe1...@iperbole.bologna.it> wrote
> I seem to vaguely recall that the popular choice thing came later for the
> filmfare awards and perhaps initially, they were just decided by a group
of
> persons nominated by the magazine, so in way, perhaps these were kind of
> 'jury awards'. Another difference could be that in those times, the
sensible
> cinema was still quite close to mainstream cinema and more accessible to
> masses than the parallel cinema, which came later.
Deepak,
IIRC FF awards was always a combo of viewer's choice plus jury.
The nomination was always done by viewers (in the January
issue of FF, one can see the FF awards nomination form).
However jury decides which of the five nominations would get
the award. So one can never be sure that the best film decided
by the jury was indeed the most popular choice of the viewers.
Obviously there was lot of scope for favoritism.
That explains why RDB never got FF award in 1970s (except for HRHK)
and LP walked away with awards for substandard stuff.
Can someone correct me, if I am wrong or outdated with this
process.
rk-
Pradip Shah
> rc0...@rediffmail.com (Ritu) wrote in message news:<8777cccd.02121...@posting.google.com>...
>
> Hrishikesh Mukherjee, Gulzar and Basu Bhattacharya.. more so with the
> first two. However, I have always felt both Hrishikesh Mukherjee and
> Gulzar lacked the visual aesthetics of Bimal Roy. They sure made
> minimalistic films like Bimal Roy, they did not go over-board in the
> budgets and concetrated on the sub=textual like him but what they
> could not achieve is the visual beauty that Bimal Roy displayed.
>
> I remember catching 'Kali Ghata Chhaye' on TV recently. There is a
> shot of Nutun against a wall holding a curtain. There is a gentle
> breeze that blows through her hair and the curtain. There is nothing
> else in the frame except a plainly dressed Nutun and the curtain. Yet
> the effect is extremely eye-catching and beautiful. That's Bimal Roy
> for you.
>
> Cheers
> Ritu
Dinesh Raheja (@rediff.com) is a well-informed and gives a good
account (overview) of the Bollywood's 'hastiyaaN'. True, both
Hrishida and Gulzar could not bring to the screen, the astheism of
Bimalda, but they have certainly made Bimalda proud...& I hope he has
been watching their movies in the heaven!! I still have a vivid
memory of watching a Bimalda's movie, Bandini with my dad in the
60's...wow!! what a movie!! & that beautiful song, "Mora gora rang
laii le, mohe shyaam rang daii de...". of course, the other numbers
from the movie are also good including 'jogi jabse tu aayaa more...".
Rgds,
Pradip
Champak Bhumiya
> discernment by a public that was already dumbing down in the 80s ... the
> lack of good commercial cinema meant that parallel cinema reaped the popular
> awards by default in the early 80s. Hence Bhumika and Sparsh winning despite
> performing indifferently at the box office. Whenever there WAS a commerical
> alternative, like Prem Rog for instance, it would be those films stealing a
> march on more aesthetic cinema. In fact when the Filmfare Awards returned
> from the two-year hiatus with a new sponsor, and Simi helming the show, it
> had already gone commercial with a vengeance. An example, Sonu Walia won
> over Anuradha Patel. It is a forgone conclusion that Devdas will sweep the
> popular awards this year despite its obvious imperfections.
anyhow I agree that filmfare awards are completely biased.
In the last 10 years the most ludicrous case being Juhi chawla getting
it for hum hain rahi pyar ke over Meenakshi Seshadri who I thought
deserved it
for Damini.
champak
rkusenet
> > over Anuradha Patel. It is a forgone conclusion that Devdas will sweep the
> > popular awards this year despite its obvious imperfections.
> which movie of anuradha patel was this?
Must be Izzajat (1988).Sonu Walia must have won for Khoon Bari
Maang for the best supporting actress award.
I completly agree. Anrudaha Patel deserved it 100 times more
than SW.
> anyhow I agree that filmfare awards are completely biased.
> In the last 10 years the most ludicrous case being Juhi chawla getting
> it for hum hain rahi pyar ke over Meenakshi Seshadri who I thought
> deserved it for Damini.
Agreed 100%. JC is the most annoying actress I have ever seen.
Talking about FF awards, has anyone noticed how Anupham Kher
behaves after getting the ward. Generally he behaves like a
retarded man.
rk-
V
"yeskay" <w...@not.com> wrote in message news:3DFDD668...@not.com...
>
>
>
> I think the main awards are claimed to have been awarded by popular
choice,
> while there is a critics' award or some such thing which is awarded by a
> selected few celebs. Even there, there is no room for quality as people
like
> AB (for Aks) and Jaya Bhaduri get awards. Why do they want awards, anyway?
Did you watch Hazar Chaurasi ki Ma?
- v
Deepaks
"rkusenet" <rkus...@sympatico.ca> wrote
> "Champak Bhumiya" <aajkita...@yahoo.com> wrote :
> > anyhow I agree that filmfare awards are completely biased.
> > In the last 10 years the most ludicrous case being Juhi chawla getting
> > it for hum hain rahi pyar ke over Meenakshi Seshadri who I thought
> > deserved it for Damini.
>
> Agreed 100%. JC is the most annoying actress I have ever seen.
>
> Talking about FF awards, has anyone noticed how Anupham Kher
> behaves after getting the ward. Generally he behaves like a
> retarded man.
>
> rk-
>
You must be kidding guys. I think that JC is good sensible actress, and good
looking too (I love those crooked teeth), but she hasn't got much chance to
play dramatic roles, favoured for deciding if one is a good actor/actrerss,
while light-comedy roles are thought to be easy and so no criteria for
deciding. On the other hand, Meenakshi Sh. always looked a bit contrived to
me, even though I can accept that she was better than her usual self in
Damini.
Agreed that Hum hein rahi .. was quite a childish film while Damini was much
better, but still overall, I feel that JC is a much better actress than MS
ever was.
Deepaks
naniwadekar
>
> ... context into sharp relief, to spin socially relevant autobiographical
> stories (Biraj Bahu, Devdas, Madhumati, Sujata, Bandini), about the
> ordinary person caught in extraordinary situations.
>
> ******************RC****************************
> (Madhumati)
> *********************************************
>
The word 'autobiographical' does not imply 100% fidelity
to real life. In fact, when it comes to books, the word
'autobiographical' strongly suggests mixing of fact with
fiction. (It may also involve changing names of the
characters but otherwise staying true to the events being
narrated.) For example, David Copperfield is an autobiographical
novel; it is NOT an autobiography. DC is shown to be a
posthumous child in the novel. CD was NOT a posthumous child
in real life. Dickens had a curious
relationship with his father whom he loved but whose
impecunious ways landed him in debtors' prison when
very young. John Dickens is presented in the novel as
the immortal Mr Micawber, who becomes DC's senior friend.
Far from dying before CD's birth, John Dickens lived to
see his son become very famous and even quietly sold
some of his son's belongings behind his back to earn money
once Charles' belongings came to be regarded as prized items.
(In Little Dorrit, the same John Dickens is presented as
the hapless Mr Dorrit, if Chesterton is to be believed.)
- dn
Shishir Yerramilli
> > > ****************RC*************
> > > popular taste then I must say popular taste was also much more
> > > discerning those days.
> > > A look into the Filmfare award history shows
> > > that till the mid 80s it was the good films that got the awards
> > > mostly.
> >
> > Then how come Sholay didnt win any awards except that of Sound
> > Design?To my recollection Deewar got a lot of awards,mind you I love
> > that film and have probably watched it atleast 50 times but I doubt if
> > it was Bimal Roy's kind of film!
>
> I think by the Sholay/Deewar time the BR kind of films were out of
> vogue. Frankly, I am not really a connoissuer of the Sholay brand of
> films so a Deewar and Sholay both seem equal to me. Maybe you could
> elaborate on why you think Sholay should have got the award instead.
It was the only decent remake of Seven Samura.Yes,even better than
the Magnificient Seven.Actually I the movie shouldve got Best Director
not neccesarily Best Film.The framing ,shot composition and camera
movements were completely schocking for its time.My favorite scene in
the movie is the in which Thakur(Sanjeev Kumar) returns home only to
find four or so corpses shrouded in white,it happenned to be a windy
day and eventually the shrouds got stripped from the corpses ...all
but one!That of young boy who Gabbar Singh had shot in the face.As
Sanjeev Kumar walks slowly towards that shroud with the very eerie
music playing in the playbackground.That scene still disturbs me...BTW
the entire scene in which his family is massacred in lifted from
Sergio Leone's Once Upon A Time In The West.Though SL is one of my
favorite directors,that scene was better conceptualised by Ramesh
Sippy.
>
> >
> > Here are a list of films that won the awards followed by the name of
> > the producer.Which do you feel deserved and which didnt?Also if you
> > can provide the competing films of that year,it would be appreciated.
>
> I have an idea.. lets take each year from 1960 and discuss the films
> in that year and see which one we would have given the award to? What
> do you say? Alok, you are the research Guru. Could you possibly get
> out the films for 1960 from some web-site?
>
> >
> >
> > 1970 Khilona L.V. Prasad
> A good film.. but it's been very long since I saw it, so I might be
> off the mark
Little too weepy.
>
> > 1971 Anand Hrishikesh Mukherjee & N.C. Sippy
> Beautiful film.. well deserved.
I agree Babumoshay!!
> > 1972 Be-Imaan Sohanlal Kanwar
> No idea. Haven't seen or heard of the film. Was this the film that had
> a Narendra Chanchal song?
Havent seen either.
>
> > 1973 Anuraag Shakti Samanta
>
> Ages since I saw the film but it had a nice human interest story and
> ofcourse good music. Again depends upon the competitors
Havent seen
> > 1974 Rajnigandha Suresh Jindal
>
> Good film. Well deserved.
Havent seen.
> > 1975 Deewaar Gulshan Rai
>
> Depends upon what the competition was
Well deserved I think.
> > 1976 Mausam Mallikarjuna Rao
>
> Beautiful film. Well deserved
Yes,somewhat controversial topic well directed.
> > 1977 Bhumika Lalit M. Bijlani And Freni M.Variava
>
> Haven't seen it in a long time. Don't remember
Havent seen.
> > 1978 Main Tulsi Tere Aangan Ki Raj Khosla
> Kitsch. Should have gone to something better.
Ill take your word for it.
> > 1979 Junoon Shashi Kapoor
>
> Great film. Again well deserved though don't know about the
> competition.
Heard its good.Dont know what its about.
>
> > 1980 Khubsoorat N.C. Sippy And Hrishikesh Mukherjee
>
> Nice and sweet film.. wonder what the competition was. I have a soft
> corner for Hrishikesh Mukherjee so I'll endorse it :-)
I like HM too but I cant recommend this.
> > 1981 Kalyug Shashi Kapoor
> Good film
Dont remember.
> > 1982 Shakti Mushir-Riaz
> Again good film though one needs to know about the competition.
I liked it.Great casting!
>
> > 1983 Ardh Satya Manmohan Shetty And Pradeep Uppoor
>
> Haven't seen this... it's highly acclaimed though so I would give it a
> benefit of doubt.
I liked it though its a little too grim!Sadashiv Amrapurkars debut
film BTW.His character Rama Shetty was based on late gangster
Varadarajan Mudaliar.
> > 1984 Sparsh Basu Bhattacharya
>
> Beautiful film. Well deserved
Havent seen.
> > 1985 Ram Teri Ganga Maili Randhir Kapoor
>
> Here is where the decline starts.
No.This is not a decline.This is a dive from top of the Grand
Canyon.
> > 1988 Qayamat Se Qayamat Tak Nasir Husain
>
> And more of it. Compare a theme like QSQT with Sparsh
Not a bad film for the subject but hardly award material.
> > 1989 Maine Pyar Kiya Tarachand Barjatya
>
> And then the pitts!!
What can ya do?These people unfortunately hit the jackpot.
>
> I had actually seen a list of 'Best Director' Filmfare awards and the
> selection of films there was better. I wonder what distinguishes a
> best director from a best film. Obviously a film will be good if it is
> directed well. A little ambigous if you ask me. Anyway if the janta is
> interested we could pump some life into the group by discussing
> filmfare awards for each year.
>
>
> > >
> > > ******************RC****************************
> > > Autobiographical?! Was Bimal Roy's wife a tribal girl in her past life
> > > :-)? (Madhumati)
> > > *********************************************
> >
> > Perhaps Bimal Roy had regular contact with Miss Cleo!
>
> :-D! I wonder if anyone believes Miss Cleo
Not after the spirits failed to inform her that her credit card scam
would be discovered by the FBI.
> > Yes,whatever happenned to all that bizarre level of
> > professionalism?Except for Kamal Haasan,Om Puri and Nana
> > Patekar,hardly any actors had practiced it!Lately it seems to be
> > making a comeback.eg Vivek Oberoi staying a slums for weeks and
> > tanning his skin for the role in Company.
>
> I think even in those times there were a handful like Balraj Sahni,
> Dilip Kumar and Nutun who practiced it. I'm sure Dev Anand did nothing
> of that kind. Neither did Raj Kapoor! Interestingly, a common factor
> in all the above mentioned names is that there were/are all 'method'
> actors as opposed to spontaneous actors (No I don't include Dev Anand
> and Raj Kapoor in that list). And now to think of it. Can't think of
> any celebrated actor who was actually a spontaneous actor!!
I dont beleive in the theory of spontaneous actors.When an actor
says that he/she is just lazy ,arrogant and is dependent on a bag of
tricks.Ex Shah Rukh Khan and (now sadly) Kamalahassan.
> >
> > >
> > > Do Bigha Zameen did not rely purely on dialogue, it also had a rich
> > > cinematic vocabulary. Its richly textured black-and-white imagery is
> > > justifiably famous, especially the last shot where the peasant family
> > > return only to wretchedly gape at a factory standing on their do bigha
> > > zameen.
> >
> > I dont remember the movie too well but ouch!People really dug
> > tragedies back then didnt they?!
>
> True and some of them really bizzare. Watch Dilip Kumar films for
> that. There is are films like 'Deedar' where the tragedy is needless.
> 'Do Bhiga Zameen' on the other hand does not belong to that class.
> It's more about realism than Shakespearan tragedy (that was the order
> of the day in those times). The nation had just emerged from immense
> suffering and that reflected in the films. DBZ was also about grit and
> human spirit. The will to fight for their little piece of land. If
> this film did not end the way it did... it would have been lost. There
> was no other ending for it.
>
> Incidentally, Do Bhiga Zameen is anti-captitalist more than anything
> else. Again, a common theme with the IPTA crowd.
Bangla Babu Bimal Roy an anti capitalist ?!!Say it isnt so :-)
Seriously atleast half the filmmakers back then had socialist or
communist sympathies.Non alignment ,my ass!Wait that didnt sound
right..Anyway we see Raj Kapoor and his movies very popular in the
Soviet Union.As a result Indian movies became popular in Communist
countries.Actually it is pretty sad when Mithun Chakraborty's Disco
Dancer tops the box office in Russia!!If that doesnt tell that
Communism doesnt work,I guess I would have to back to the somewhat
stale(in communists view) 100 million dead argument.Bimal Roys' Do
Bigha Zameen had a song 'Dharti Pukare' or something like that which
was based on a popular Russian folk song(which was revamped by Red
Army hero and composer Lev Knipper,he was also trained to assasinate
Hitler).It is Lev Knippers version on which the DBZ song is based.The
Russian original is called 'Polyushka Polye" or Song of the Plains.
For better or worse ,the Indian film industry never had to go
through McCarthyism.Imagine if Nehru hadnt banned the RSS or Hindu
Mahasabha(because Nathuram Godse a member of those organizations had
killed Gandhi) came to power in the parliament on an anti communist
pro Hindutva platform and rounded up Bimal Roy,Guru Dutt and Raj
Kapoor etc and ask if the ever were members of the Communist party?!!
Of course like all communist sympathisers they lived a capitalist
lifestyle ,kinda reminds of how Naxalite leaders always insist on
conducting meetings in Krishna Oberoi in Hyderabad!!The people's hotel
no doubt!
>
>
> > >
> > > Roy gave breaks to many fledgling directors by producing small and
> > > often experimental films like Amanat (Bharat Bhushan, Chaand Usmani),
> > > Apradhi Kaun (Mala Sinha, Abhi Bhattachrya),
> >
> > AK was pretty interesting.Bimal Roy seems to have been the RGV of his
> > time!
>
> Interesting observation. Though when it comes to his own films I find
> nothing avant-garde about them.
They were revolutionary for their time.Anyway I compared him to RGV
because the latter gave breaks to many directors.
They were very much within the
> mainstream however still touched your heart and mind.
>
> > >
> > > ******************RC**************************
> > > What is the opinion on that one? Do you guys think Bimal Roy pandered
> > > to popular taste in Madhumati?
> >
> > I feel he was making a film he felt deeply about.It just happened to
> > appeal to popular tastes.Nothing wrong with the latter but the
> > criticism is unjustified.What is odd that it was probably one of his
> > more optimistic films!Life goes on....This movie is one of all time
> > favorites!Great performances by Yusufbhai and VM(for a change!).Salil
> > was surreal!
>
> I agree with that one. A good film can also be popular. One need not
> make films about social issues all the time. But I guess in those days
> social issues were in focus and most film-makers could not ignore
> them. And again interesting observation.. it certainly had a ring of
> optimism throughout. Not only Salil but the film itself was surreal.
> What particularly stands out after all this time is Vyjayanthimala's
> introduction with 'Aaja re Pardesi'. Great cinematography. That's what
> I was saying before. I can't seem to recall either Gulzar or
> Hrishikesh Mukherjee display that kind of aesthetic sense.
My favorite song is 'Bicchua'!Now that song was eerie for some
reason!I dont know why,its best not to analyze it!
> >
>
> > >
> > > Madhumati won Roy Filmfare's Best Director Award setting off another
> > > hat-trick with awards for Sujata and Parakh.
> > >
> > > Roy's collaboration with Nutan resulted in two dramatic classics.
> > > Sujata (1959), the first, charmingly and convincingly argued for a
> > > more humanistic society where caste differences did not determine a
> > > person's destiny.
> >
> > This one also a great catfight between Nutan and whatsherface.
>
> What was that one? I don't remember. Are you confusing this with
> 'Seema' by any chance?
Probably,yes.
Roy and Nutan brought to startling
> > > life a remarkable woman whose binding love for a revolutionary brings
> > > about her ruination as well as deliverance.
> >
> > Thats what happens to women who fall for the 'dangerous' rebel
> > types!
>
> Sorry comrade, that warning comes just about 70 years too late! No
> more revolutionaries any more!
Well there are Naxalites...You know whats odd,many American college
students have pro Communist sympathies!!Revolution or jihad,the cries
may sound different but the end result are equally ugly but I
digress...
>
>
> > > After Bandini, Roy was to start a film, but death claimed him in 1966.
> > > Roy was only 57, but his genius spreads through Hrishikesh Mukherji,
> >
> > 'Only' 57!!BTW South Carolina Senator Strom Thurmond is going to be a
> > grandfather at only 100! :-)
>
> !! A fact that comes to my notice is that most artists from the Golden
> Era died pretty young. Guru Dutt went at 40, Geeta Dutt at 42, Saigal
> at 40, Geeta Bali at 35?, Madhubala at 35, Shailendra, Jaikishen,
> Madan Mohan all went before 50, Mukesh, Rafi, Roshan all went around
> 55. By that yardstick Bimal Roy at 57 and Dada Burman at 69 lived
> quite long!!!
>
> Makes one ponder though. What is it about the intensly creative lives
> these people live. It finally takes toll on them. Reminds me of Van
> Gogh.
>
What did happen to Van Gogh?Tell us, we're all ears ;-).
> Cheers
> Ritu
Shishir Yerramilli
I remember when received Best Comedian or some such nonsense for
Lamhe,his wife Kiran accepted it on his behalf and proceeded to rattle
off some dull Punjabi folk tale(I dont remember the tale) ,the moral
of which was that everything should be in its proper place.For those
of us who couldnt grasp the subtlty,she stated that Anupam Kher
shouldve gotten Best Actor award not Best Comedian for that film!!
There is something about these prestigious award shows that often
brings about the crass personalities of celebrities.I think its
because there their ego is given free reign.They have now a license to
act completely immature and self absorbed.There are a few exceptions
like Amitabh Bacchan and Aamir Khan,the latter whom has shown even
more class by avoiding the function altogether.
Unfortunately Anupam Kher type behavior is generally the norm.But
Shah Rukh Khan tends to sink way below even Anupam Kher!
>
> rk-
Ritu
Yes, the scene when the family is massacred was certainly well done. I
remember it had my hair standing on the end as well. Sholay was
definitely a well made film. Sad that Ramesh Sippy proved to be just a
flash in the pan. His later films never lived upto Sholay.
>
> > > 1972 Be-Imaan Sohanlal Kanwar
> > No idea. Haven't seen or heard of the film. Was this the film that had
> > a Narendra Chanchal song?
>
> Havent seen either.
Incidentally I discovered Be-imaan got a the Filmfare award for music
as well. Over Pakezaah! I really am curious now. Can anyone throw
light on this film?
> Havent seen.
> > > 1985 Ram Teri Ganga Maili Randhir Kapoor
> >
> > Here is where the decline starts.
>
> No.This is not a decline.This is a dive from top of the Grand
> Canyon.
LOL! That's a good one! Yes, Raj Kapoor somehow does not agree to my
tastes either.
>
> > > 1988 Qayamat Se Qayamat Tak Nasir Husain
> >
> > And more of it. Compare a theme like QSQT with Sparsh
>
> Not a bad film for the subject but hardly award material.
> > > 1989 Maine Pyar Kiya Tarachand Barjatya
> >
> > And then the pitts!!
>
> What can ya do?These people unfortunately hit the jackpot.
Exactly! Declining audience tastes. I remember I was in school when
this film released and you had these silly caps with 'Friend' written
on it that was the rage of the day. Even then I could not understand
the hulla behind it. It was such a sidey film. QSQT is an infinitely
better love story.
> >
> > I think even in those times there were just a handful like Balraj Sahni,
> > Dilip Kumar and Nutun who practiced it. I'm sure Dev Anand did nothing
> > of that kind. Neither did Raj Kapoor! Interestingly, a common factor
> > in all the above mentioned names is that there were/are all 'method'
> > actors as opposed to spontaneous actors (No I don't include Dev Anand
> > and Raj Kapoor in that list). And now to think of it. Can't think of
> > any celebrated actor who was actually a spontaneous actor!!
>
> I dont beleive in the theory of spontaneous actors.When an actor
> says that he/she is just lazy ,arrogant and is dependent on a bag of
> tricks.Ex Shah Rukh Khan and (now sadly) Kamalahassan.
Not really.. you do have spontanoeus actors. Only I can't recall any
now. But in the actresses there have been many in the past. Geeta Bali
was a prime example. Then we had Madhubala. Tanuja in the later days
was also by and large spontanoeus. On the other hand you had thinking
actresses like Nutun. However amongst actors the only spontanoeus
actor that crosses my mind now is Govinda!
> >
> > Incidentally, Do Bhiga Zameen is anti-captitalist more than anything
> > else. Again, a common theme with the IPTA crowd.
>
> Bangla Babu Bimal Roy an anti capitalist ?!!Say it isnt so :-)
Sorry bud :-).. that's what it is. The entire Bengal contingent had
very strong ties with IPTA. The ideology reflects in their films.
> For better or worse ,the Indian film industry never had to go
> through McCarthyism.Imagine if Nehru hadnt banned the RSS or Hindu
> Mahasabha(because Nathuram Godse a member of those organizations had
> killed Gandhi) came to power in the parliament on an anti communist
> pro Hindutva platform and rounded up Bimal Roy,Guru Dutt and Raj
> Kapoor etc and ask if the ever were members of the Communist party?!!
Actually, the Communist Party was banned and a lot of the IPTA
communists had to go underground. Salil Chowdhary for one spent a lot
of time hiding. The other person was Balraj Sahni. He was also jailed
for a short period due to his communist links.
>
> Of course like all communist sympathisers they lived a capitalist
> lifestyle ,kinda reminds of how Naxalite leaders always insist on
> conducting meetings in Krishna Oberoi in Hyderabad!!The people's hotel
> no doubt!
Not all. People like Kaifi Azmi lived in the shared communist quarters
where each family had one room to themselves. The ideologies those
days were not as hollow as we would think them to be. Hollow
ideologies or rather a total lack of them is more a hallmark of our
generation.
>
> They were revolutionary for their time.Anyway I compared him to RGV
> because the latter gave breaks to many directors.
Why didn't you compare him to Dev Anand? :-) He too gave breaks to
many directors Vijay Anand, Raj Khosla, Guru Dutt, Amarjeet and Chetan
Anand :-D!!!
> >
> > I agree with that one. A good film can also be popular. One need not
> > make films about social issues all the time. But I guess in those days
> > social issues were in focus and most film-makers could not ignore
> > them. And again interesting observation.. it certainly had a ring of
> > optimism throughout. Not only Salil but the film itself was surreal.
> > What particularly stands out after all this time is Vyjayanthimala's
> > introduction with 'Aaja re Pardesi'. Great cinematography. That's what
> > I was saying before. I can't seem to recall either Gulzar or
> > Hrishikesh Mukherjee display that kind of aesthetic sense.
>
> My favorite song is 'Bicchua'!Now that song was eerie for some
> reason!I dont know why,its best not to analyze it!
Eerie? It's supposed to be erotic. Though I find it neither. A great
foottapping song. But actually in the older days it was considered
quite way out there. A friend was telling me that his parents were
encouraged not to listen to songs like these :-)
>
> What did happen to Van Gogh?Tell us, we're all ears ;-).
Well he lost his mind and killed himself. Not before spending his last
years in various asylums in the South of France (St Remy and Arles).
That also coincided with one of his most creative and celebrated
phases.
Ritu
Ritu
It actually is a choice b/w the Devil and the Deep Sea! I agree with
Deepak. Meenu aunty was not a 'bit contrived' but extremely contrived.
She seemed to believe acting in films was an extension of the 'abhinay
ang' in dancing. However JC was also very contrived. I found her sweet
girl next door image very put on. It was not natural. But yes she was
a bettr actress than Meenakshi. Though that does not say much!
Cheers
Ritu
>
> Deepaks
Champak Bhumiya
> Deepak. Meenu aunty was not a 'bit contrived' but extremely contrived.
> She seemed to believe acting in films was an extension of the 'abhinay
> ang' in dancing. However JC was also very contrived. I found her sweet
> girl next door image very put on. It was not natural. But yes she was
> a bettr actress than Meenakshi. Though that does not say much!
>
> Cheers
> Ritu
acting was just giggling. I tought MS gave a
very good performance in Damini.
Champak
Champak Bhumiya
> > > over Anuradha Patel. It is a forgone conclusion that Devdas will sweep the
> > > popular awards this year despite its obvious imperfections.
> > which movie of anuradha patel was this?
>
> Must be Izzajat (1988).Sonu Walia must have won for Khoon Bari
> Maang for the best supporting actress award.
I haven't seen Izzajat. I saw Khoon bhari Maang which I thought
was a raddi movie and I agree that I didn;t find anything great
in Sonu Walia's acting.
>
> Talking about FF awards, has anyone noticed how Anupham Kher
> behaves after getting the ward. Generally he behaves like a
> retarded man.
>
Hee Hee Hee. Though I think Anupam Kher is a decent actor. his best role
was in Saaransh (his first movie?)
Champak