Johnny Carson Feature in the Works

[KalElFan]

Speculation begins on casting...

http://www.deadline.com/2012/11/johnny-carson-estate-in-feature-deal-for-biopic-on-iconic-late-night-host/

The talkback comment from "fluffo" mentions Kevin Spacey.
Bingo! He does a superb Carson impression.

Now, for Ed McMahon... I'll have to think about that one.

[Michael OConnor]

> The talkback comment from "fluffo" mentions Kevin Spacey.
> Bingo!  He does a superb Carson impression.
>
> Now, for Ed McMahon... I'll have to think about that one.

How about Greg Kinnear as Carson, and Spacey as Ed McMahon?

[Rich]

"KalElFan" <kale...@yanospamhoo.com> wrote in
news:agfu8p...@mid.individual.net:

The American Master's special documentary on him will not be equalled.

[wlah...@gmail.com]

On Tuesday, November 13, 2012 8:17:48 PM UTC-5, Rich wrote:

> The American Master's special documentary on him will not be equalled.

Because Carson was a genius and you can't fake timing. It would be like a Jack Benny bio-pic. Pointless.

[nick]

Or Adam Sandler and Kevin James.

[Tom]

Recent history would support your casting prediction... morons rule.

Tom

[William December Starr]

In article <agfu8p...@mid.individual.net>,

They might have to use CGI for that.

-- wds (sort of like the Hulk...)

[moviePig]

Well, they could always settle for Carson's apocrypha:

http://www.snopes.com/radiotv/tv/zsazsa.asp

--

- - - - - - - -
YOUR taste at work...
http://www.moviepig.com

[wlah...@gmail.com]

On Tuesday, November 13, 2012 10:14:29 PM UTC-5, moviePig wrote:

> Well, they could always settle for Carson's apocrypha:
>
> http://www.snopes.com/radiotv/tv/zsazsa.asp
>

How much says Ed Ames and that damn tomahawk make it into the film?

[Tom]

I'd make that bet... that was a great bit.

Tom

[Michael OConnor]

That was probably the funniest moment in the history of unscripted
TV. Ed Ames would not have been able to duplicate his toss given
1,000 more tries. What made it so funny was that Carson glanced over
quickly and saw where the tomahawk tip hit, but didn't glance at it
again, and was the only person in the studio not laughing his butt
off, but was playing it straight, waiting to come up with the right
line "I didn't even know you were Jewish." Carson had brilliant comic
timing.

The problem with a Carson biopic is they'll likely whitewash many of
the details, such as the multiple marriages, Ed McMahon's alcoholism,
the Letterman/Leno battle to replace him, and the fact that from many
of the celebs who knew him admitted after he left the Tonight Show
that Johnny wasn't the same person off camera, but was rather aloof
and not a very likable guy in private. I fear it will just be just
like the Brady Bunch movie, where they simply attempt to recreate all
the memorable moments from the show instead of trying to tell the
story of his life.

[bermuda999]

On Tuesday, November 13, 2012 10:14:29 PM UTC-5, moviePig wrote:

> On Nov 13, 8:19 pm, wlahe...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > On Tuesday, November 13, 2012 8:17:48 PM UTC-5, Rich wrote:
>
> > > The American Master's special documentary on him will not be equalled.
>
> >
>
> > Because Carson was a genius and you can't fake timing. It would be like a Jack Benny bio-pic. Pointless.
>
>
>
> Well, they could always settle for Carson's apocrypha:
>
>
>
> http://www.snopes.com/radiotv/tv/zsazsa.asp

Hey! That's my letter from Johnny at the bottom under "additional information"

[nick]

On Nov 14, 6:50 am, Michael OConnor <mpoconn...@aol.com> wrote:
> On Nov 13, 11:07 pm, Tom <drso...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > On Nov 13, 9:41 pm, wlahe...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > > On Tuesday, November 13, 2012 10:14:29 PM UTC-5, moviePig wrote:
> > > > Well, they could always settle for Carson's apocrypha:
>
> > > >    http://www.snopes.com/radiotv/tv/zsazsa.asp
>
> > > How much says Ed Ames and that damn tomahawk make it into the film?
>
> > I'd make that bet... that was a great bit.
>
> > Tom
>
> That was probably the funniest moment in the history of unscripted
> TV.  Ed Ames would not have been able to duplicate his toss given
> 1,000 more tries.

So the toss will have to be CGI'd for the bio-pic.

[trotsky]

On 11/13/12 7:19 PM, wlah...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, November 13, 2012 8:17:48 PM UTC-5, Rich wrote:
>
>> The American Master's special documentary on him will not be equalled.
>
> Because Carson was a genius

You *really* don't get comedy, do you?

[Bill Steele]

In article <agfu8p...@mid.individual.net>,

"KalElFan" <kale...@yanospamhoo.com> wrote:

>
> The talkback comment from "fluffo" mentions Kevin Spacey.
> Bingo! He does a superb Carson impression.

We don't want an impression. That would destroy the willing suspension
of disbelief. A moderate physical resemblance is good -- you wouldn't
hire Louie Anderson to play Lincoln -- and maybe the right regional
accent, and from there on it's about the personality.

I can't think of a successful -- or any -- movie biography of a
comedian. Even an impressionist can't recreate what makes them special.
Hal Holbrook and Frederic March did OK with Mark Twain, but nobody knows
what he really sounded like.

[Barry Margolin]

In article <ws21-E52D33.1...@70-3-168-216.pools.spcsdns.net>,

Bill Steele <ws...@cornell.edu> wrote:

> I can't think of a successful -- or any -- movie biography of a
> comedian. Even an impressionist can't recreate what makes them special.
> Hal Holbrook and Frederic March did OK with Mark Twain, but nobody knows
> what he really sounded like.

I recall decent TV movies about Abbott & Costello and Martin & Lewis.

--
Barry Margolin
Arlington, MA

[Professor Bubba]

In article <ws21-E52D33.1...@70-3-168-216.pools.spcsdns.net>,
Bill Steele <ws...@cornell.edu> wrote:

When he was a boy, the great American actor William Gillette
(1853-1937) lived next door to Mark Twain, and as a young actor he
traveled around doing impressions of celebrities, including Twain.
Gillette's Twain impression was still in demand in 1934, when he
performed it here:

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqHPN4lW6tI>

That is as close as we're ever likely to get to hearing the voice of
Mark Twain.

[moviePig]

On Nov 14, 2:35 pm, Bill Steele <w...@cornell.edu> wrote:
> ...

>
> I can't think of a successful -- or any -- movie biography of a

> comedian. ...

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0050218/
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0125664/
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0045198/
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0075409/

[nick]

On Nov 14, 4:11 pm, Barry Margolin <bar...@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
> In article <ws21-E52D33.14355314112...@70-3-168-216.pools.spcsdns.net>,

>  Bill Steele <w...@cornell.edu> wrote:
>
> > I can't think of a successful -- or any -- movie biography of a
> > comedian. Even an impressionist can't recreate what makes them special.
> > Hal Holbrook and Frederic March did OK with Mark Twain, but nobody knows
> > what he really sounded like.
>
> I recall decent TV movies about Abbott & Costello and Martin & Lewis.
>

The made-for-TV Three Stooges bio-pic wasn't bad, the one produced by
Mel Gibson back when he was the self-proclaimed protector of the
comedic legacy of The Three Stooges.

Then there's an obvious one: Lenny, starring Dustin Hoffman.

I typed The Eddie Cantor Story into Google, not knowing for sure if
there was a movie with that title but guessing there would be, andsure
enough, there is.

[KalElFan]

"moviePig" wrote in message
news:0cc7abf1-e7d6-41f6...@m4g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...

> On Nov 14, 2:35 pm, Bill Steele <w...@cornell.edu> wrote:
>> ...
>>
>> I can't think of a successful -- or any -- movie biography of a
>> comedian. ...
>
> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0050218/
> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0125664/
> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0045198/
> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0075409/

For those who don't want to click to find out what those are:

The Buster Keaton Story (1957)
Man on the Moon (1999)
The Story of Will Rogers (1952)
W.C. Fields and Me (1976)

I'll add:

Chaplin (1992) http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0103939/
Lenny (1974) http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0071746/

[KalElFan]

"Bill Steele" wrote in message
news:ws21-E52D33.1...@70-3-168-216.pools.spcsdns.net...

> In article <agfu8p...@mid.individual.net>,
> "KalElFan" <kale...@yanospamhoo.com> wrote:
>
>> The talkback comment from "fluffo" mentions Kevin Spacey.
>> Bingo! He does a superb Carson impression.
>
> We don't want an impression. That would destroy the willing
> suspension of disbelief.

Spacey is an Oscar-winning (and nominated) actor, not an
impressionist like Rich Little. He just happens to do a very
good Carson. For those who may have seen him do it, he'd
be a draw for that and the acting. For those who haven't,
he'll be a revelation in both the resemblance and hopefully
acting as well.

> A moderate physical resemblance is good...

He has that too, and could be made to look young enough to
play Young Carson as well

So I think he's the obvious choice.

[Barry Margolin]

In article
<0cc7abf1-e7d6-41f6...@m4g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>,

moviePig <pwal...@moviepig.com> wrote:

> On Nov 14, 2:35�pm, Bill Steele <w...@cornell.edu> wrote:
> > ...
> >
> > I can't think of a successful -- or any -- movie biography of a
> > comedian. ...
>
> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0050218/
> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0125664/
> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0045198/
> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0075409/

Don't forget "Lenny" and "Chaplin".

Google found this article that discusses a number of comedian biopics:

http://splitsider.com/2011/04/the-trouble-with-comedian-biopics/

[Ted Nolan <tednolan>]

In article <72b968f5-9b19-4ab0...@o8g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>,

Michael OConnor <mpoco...@aol.com> wrote:
>and not a very likable guy in private. I fear it will just be just
>like the Brady Bunch movie, where they simply attempt to recreate all
>the memorable moments from the show instead of trying to tell the
>story of his life.

Not sure I can parse this. The Brady Bunch Movie was very much its
own creature.
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

[Michael OConnor]

On Nov 14, 8:01 pm, t...@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) wrote:
> In article <72b968f5-9b19-4ab0-ad79-4c202b702...@o8g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>,

> Michael OConnor  <mpoconn...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> >and not a very likable guy in private.  I fear it will just be just
> >like the Brady Bunch movie, where they simply attempt to recreate all
> >the memorable moments from the show instead of trying to tell the
> >story of his life.
>
> Not sure I can parse this.  The Brady Bunch Movie was very much its
> own creature.
> --

The Brady Bunch movie was the one TV to Feature Film Adaptation where
they didn't attempt to do anything original but they simply cobbled
together the dozen or so most memorable moments from the series and
recreated them and stitched a story to hold it together, and they went
to meticulous detail to cast actors who looked exactly like the
original kids and spared no expense to dress them in the same exact
clothing.

I worry that a Carson biopic will have to include the Ed Ames hatchet
skit and the Jack Webb clapper sketch and all the classic Tonight show
moments instead of trying to tell the story of Carson's life. Carson
was a huge star, and he could turn an unknown comic into a star just
from a five minute performance on his show; Oprah Winfrey was the only
other TV personality I ever saw who had the power to do this.
However, Carson was a very private person, and he pretty much dropped
off the radar after he retired from the Tonight Show. I frankly don't
know if his life away from the TV show is interesting enough to carry
a movie.

[Ted Nolan <tednolan>]

In article <6fe85d95-1ce1-4b73...@c17g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>,

OK, I understand your point now, though I would still say TBM was a
very clever take on movie-izing the series.

[wlah...@gmail.com]

On Wednesday, November 14, 2012 10:25:17 PM UTC-5, Michael OConnor wrote:

Carson
> was a huge star, and he could turn an unknown comic into a star just>

> from a five minute performance on his show[.]

Where Carson shined was in having comedians on his show and when they sat with Carson, they were never funnier. Almost every comedian from that era will say that. Carson would have what could best be described as a duet. He could feed lines to any comic seamlessly, apparently nonchalantly, and make them look funnier than they sometimes were on their own.

[nick]

On Nov 15, 6:30 am, Dennis M <denni...@dennism3.invalid> wrote:
> In article <agj6osF302...@mid.individual.net>,

>  t...@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) wrote:
>
> > OK, I understand your point now, though I would still say TBM was a
> > very clever take on movie-izing the series.
>

> You're right, he's comparing apples and oranges. The Brady Bunch Movie
> was an ingenious and entertaining parody of the original series (someone
> mentioned The Addams Family [movie], but I've always found that series
> so unappealing I didn't even care to see a parody of it).
>
> After watching the two-hour "American Masters" special on Carson on PBS
> a while back (at least two times), I would assert his life is as worthy
> of a movie adaptation as any other famous figure.

I'm halfway through (belatedly) the American Masters special right
now. It's good but where's the cinematic hook for a biopic about
Johnny Carson? Decades of success on late night television doesn't
make for compelling subject matter, unlike what Lenny Bruce or Andy
Kaufman went through.

If I was a filmmaker though I'd take on the project just for the
chance to film the part of the American Masters special in 1949, where
the early owners of TV sets would sit around for four hours a day
watching the test pattern, with all the neighbors invited over.

[nick]

On Nov 14, 6:41 pm, "KalElFan" <kalel...@yanospamhoo.com> wrote:
> "Bill Steele"  wrote in message
>
> news:ws21-E52D33.1...@70-3-168-216.pools.spcsdns.net...
>

> > In article <agfu8pFbeb...@mid.individual.net>,

> > "KalElFan" <kalel...@yanospamhoo.com> wrote:
>
> >> The talkback comment from "fluffo" mentions Kevin Spacey.
> >> Bingo!  He does a superb Carson impression.
>
> > We don't want an impression. That would destroy the willing
> > suspension of disbelief.
>
> Spacey is an Oscar-winning (and nominated) actor, not an
> impressionist like Rich Little.  He just happens to do a very
> good Carson.  For those who may have seen him do it, he'd
> be a draw for that and the acting.  For those who haven't,
> he'll be a revelation in both the resemblance and hopefully
> acting as well.
>
> > A moderate physical resemblance is good...
>
> He has that too, and could be made to look young enough to
> play Young Carson as well
>
> So I think he's the obvious choice.

Except for one big minus on the Spacey resume no one's mentioned
yet . . . Beyond the Sea.

[trotsky]

That was boring. Not a whole lot was said about him playing Jack
Abramoff, either.

[trotsky]

On 11/15/12 5:30 AM, Dennis M wrote:
> In article <agj6os...@mid.individual.net>,

> t...@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) wrote:
>
>> OK, I understand your point now, though I would still say TBM was a
>> very clever take on movie-izing the series.
>

> You're right, he's comparing apples and oranges. The Brady Bunch Movie
> was an ingenious and entertaining parody of the original series (someone
> mentioned The Addams Family [movie], but I've always found that series
> so unappealing I didn't even care to see a parody of it).

Everybody's tastes are different, but I think Marcia getting hit in the
nose with a football is one of the high points of American TV history.

[nick]

On Nov 15, 8:26 am, trotsky <gmsi...@email.com> wrote:
> On 11/15/12 5:30 AM, Dennis M wrote:
>

> > In article <agj6osF302...@mid.individual.net>,

The Brady Bunch is full of high points of American TV history:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=764MzeWYn8k

[KalElFan]

"nick" wrote in message
news:b8e62247-0881-4b67...@f17g2000vbz.googlegroups.com...

Didn't see it, but movies (or TV shows, especially any given
episode) can't all be diamonds. Some actors can elevate
the material, though, no matter how bad it is. It may still
be bad, it just won't be AS bad and may even seem decent-
to-good.

The Ultimate Test may be actors who could make reading the
phone book look interesting. Alphabetically, I'll list 10 living
actors I'd watch reading the phone book for, say, 5 minutes
anyway. :-) I'm sure there are many others.

Michael Caine
Robert De Niro
Morgan Freeman
Gene Hackman
Tom Hanks
Samuel L. Jackson
Jack Nicholson
Al Pacino
Christopher Plummer
Kevin Spacey

Others kept coming to mind, Sean Penn, and comedians
or actors famous for a few comedy shtick or campy roles
could comprise a whole list of their own, e.g. Jim Carrey,
Johnny Depp, Robin Williams.

[moviePig]

Meanwhile, though, is it okay yet to speak minor ill of the dearly
departed? It was Carson's show that (eventually) clued me in that not
all of TV's spontaneous moments of spittle-spraying hilarity were
entirely unplanned...

[Invid Fan]

In article
<1b33b8f6-5402-4a02...@r6g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>,

It was the 1976 revival of Howdy Doody that did that for me. At some
point that summer, my eight year old brain wondered why they let
Clarabell ruin every show, as they'd yet to actually follow the
script... ooooh....

--
Chris Mack "If we show any weakness, the monsters will get cocky!"
'Invid Fan' - 'Yokai Monsters Along With Ghosts'

[wlah...@gmail.com]

On Thursday, November 15, 2012 11:36:08 AM UTC-5, moviePig wrote:
>
> Meanwhile, though, is it okay yet to speak minor ill of the dearly
> departed? It was Carson's show that (eventually) clued me in that not
> all of TV's spontaneous moments of spittle-spraying hilarity were
> entirely unplanned...
>

What part of "show" eluded you? One night Carson got bleeped and soon after came on and read nursery rhymes with bleeps. "She cut off their [bleep] with a carving knife . . ." to demonstrate that the bleeps made the ideas "dirtier." Nice moment.

[Bill Anderson]

asfdl;kj'
On 11/14/2012 6:50 AM, Michael OConnor wrote:
> On Nov 13, 11:07 pm, Tom <drso...@aol.com> wrote:
>> On Nov 13, 9:41 pm, wlahe...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> On Tuesday, November 13, 2012 10:14:29 PM UTC-5, moviePig wrote:
>>>> Well, they could always settle for Carson's apocrypha:
>>
>>>> http://www.snopes.com/radiotv/tv/zsazsa.asp
>>
>>> How much says Ed Ames and that damn tomahawk make it into the film?
>>
>> I'd make that bet... that was a great bit.
>>
>> Tom
>
> That was probably the funniest moment in the history of unscripted
> TV. Ed Ames would not have been able to duplicate his toss given
> 1,000 more tries. What made it so funny was that Carson glanced over
> quickly and saw where the tomahawk tip hit, but didn't glance at it
> again, and was the only person in the studio not laughing his butt
> off, but was playing it straight, waiting to come up with the right
> line "I didn't even know you were Jewish." Carson had brilliant comic
> timing.
>
> The problem with a Carson biopic is they'll likely whitewash many of
> the details, such as the multiple marriages, Ed McMahon's alcoholism,
> the Letterman/Leno battle to replace him, and the fact that from many
> of the celebs who knew him admitted after he left the Tonight Show
> that Johnny wasn't the same person off camera, but was rather aloof

> and not a very likable guy in private. I fear it will just be just
> like the Brady Bunch movie, where they simply attempt to recreate all
> the memorable moments from the show instead of trying to tell the
> story of his life.
>

My guess is that very few moments from the show will make it into the
movie, and the ones that do will be moments that reflect on his private
life -- Bombastic Bushkin, Art Fern ogling Carol Wayne, how he handled
the death of his son, etc. The movie can't simply be a roundup of The
Tonight Show's greatest comedy bits. If the Ed Ames appearance brought
some sort of benefit to the show, if it somehow catapulted Carson and
the Tonight Show from mediocre ratings to stratospheric or whatever,
then it'll be in the film. Otherwise, I'll bet it's left out. I think
all the things you worry will be whitewashed will be the heart of the movie.

--
Bill Anderson

I am the Mighty Favog

[moviePig]

What I "worry" about is that there's no story there, i.e., that this
bio is justified on an axiomatic supposition that anyone famous must
ipso facto be fascinating...

[Invid Fan]

In article
<0551dca4-2725-4d10...@h15g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>,

moviePig <pwal...@moviepig.com> wrote:

> What I "worry" about is that there's no story there, i.e., that this
> bio is justified on an axiomatic supposition that anyone famous must
> ipso facto be fascinating...
>

Usually these things are based on some book, which has already found a
narrative spine for the story. Are there any biographies of Carson?

[moviePig]

On Nov 15, 6:50 pm, Invid Fan <in...@loclanet.com> wrote:
> In article
> <0551dca4-2725-4d10-a942-d9d1c990b...@h15g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>,

>
> moviePig <pwall...@moviepig.com> wrote:
> > What I "worry" about is that there's no story there, i.e., that this
> > bio is justified on an axiomatic supposition that anyone famous must
> > ipso facto be fascinating...
>
> Usually these things are based on some book, which has already found a
> narrative spine for the story. Are there any biographies of Carson?

I'm still not convinced, but fwiw Wiki does list a bunch of things:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Carson#Accounts_on_work_and_life

[nick]

When I started reading this thread, I hadn't seen The American Masters
documentary on Carson and thinking about the bio-pic, assumed it'd
have a Welles influence like all these bio-pics do and a "Rosebud".
And, sure enough, The American Masters documentary ends with a
reference to Carson's "Rosebud" which I won't reveal if you haven't
seen the show.

But even after watching the documentary, I didn't see enough to hang a
bio-pic on. Sure, he had a dark side, he drank too much and he
cheated on his wives, but that only puts him right alongside most of
his peers in the entertainment industry of his era. As he got older,
he got reclusive, like Dean Martin, which makes me wish Scorsese had
done his planned Martin bio-pic because that sounded like a really
good film (also iirc, one of the first Internet era bio-pics where
online people went crazy offering up their casting suggestions--Adam
Sandler as Jerry Lewis and so on. Scorsese joked about how he didn't
have to cast the movie because people online already had.)

[moviePig]

But was there anything remotely controversial or majorly innovative
about Carson ...other than his game show's p.c. name change (from 'Do
You Trust Your Wife?')? A mere movie about a late-night TV stalwart
would be like, well, late-night TV...

[Bill Steele]

In article
<630a9287-662f-492d...@h16g2000vby.googlegroups.com>,
nick <leftbehindb...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Nov 14, 4:11 pm, Barry Margolin <bar...@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
> > In article <ws21-E52D33.14355314112...@70-3-168-216.pools.spcsdns.net>,

> >  Bill Steele <w...@cornell.edu> wrote:
> >
> > > I can't think of a successful -- or any -- movie biography of a

> > > comedian. Even an impressionist can't recreate what makes them special.
> > > Hal Holbrook and Frederic March did OK with Mark Twain, but nobody knows
> > > what he really sounded like.
> >
> > I recall decent TV movies about Abbott & Costello and Martin & Lewis.
> >
> The made-for-TV Three Stooges bio-pic wasn't bad, the one produced by
> Mel Gibson back when he was the self-proclaimed protector of the
> comedic legacy of The Three Stooges.
>
> Then there's an obvious one: Lenny, starring Dustin Hoffman.
>
> I typed The Eddie Cantor Story into Google, not knowing for sure if
> there was a movie with that title but guessing there would be, andsure
> enough, there is.

Widely disliked by the critics because Keefe Brasselle did an
"impression" of Cantor.

The best of the movies mentioned are about the life experiences and
issues surrounding the performers, rather than juste trying to recreate
the personality. Lenny is the best example of that. And most of them are
about people long gone, so the audience has no idea of what the person
was like in everyday life.

Special case: The Jolson Story, where the heart of the movie was Jolson
himself, on the soundtrack.