Best Female Rape Scene
Al Lal
last time I saw a rape in a movie. Those of you in the know can help
me out.
Elisabeth Shue in Leaving Las Vegas, its an excellent movie, but the
rape scene ends before the rape is over - that is what many movies do,
they do not show the rape in detail, leaving it to the viewers
imagination. I want realistic detailed rape scenes that cover the
whole length of the rape.
Al Lal
Bruce Hoult
lal...@hotmail.com (Al Lal) wrote:
> What is the best female rape scene in a movie? I cant remember the
> last time I saw a rape in a movie.
Not hard to think of some. I don't know that "best" is a good word to
use, though.
Two NZ films had quite explicit and (??) realistic scenes:
Smash Palace
Once Were Warriors
Then there is "Lipstick", Farrah Fawcett's various efforts, and even
movies such as "Thelma and Louise".
-- Bruce
madkevin
"Al Lal" <lal...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b7acbb2a.02040...@posting.google.com...
> What is the best female rape scene in a movie?
<snip>
Congradulations! You've one the Most Offensive Post Of The Month Award! And, in a
newsgroup that contains both Gaza and Rich, that's really quite an achievement.
Kevin "Welcome To The Killfile" Cogliano
madkevin
"madkevin" <madk...@golden.net> wrote in message
news:0hrs8.82398$4D4.61...@radon.golden.net...
I, however, have won the Hey Stupid, Nice Homonym Award for my use of the word "one"
instead of "won" above. Still, though, just in case you missed the memo: rape = bad.
Kevin "Do Carry On" Cogliano
jrob
*are* depicted in film. It is a topic that a movie newsgroup should be willing to
discuss. I'm giving the benefit of the doubt, and although it is a dark subject, am
willing to see it as valid post.
From memory, one of the more lengthy rape scenes is in the film, "The Accused" with
Jodie Foster. Also, more recently, Tim Roth's, "The War Zone", deals with the
matter rather graphically as it concerns incest and its effects on a family.
If you (Al Lal) are just trolling, well then, do a power search on IMDB using "rape"
as the keyword. You'll get 818 hits.
Blakesq
in article 3CB253E7...@hvc.rr.com, jrob at jro...@hvc.rr.com wrote on
4/8/02 7:36 PM:
Dawn Taylor
>To the defense of Al Lal (without knowing if the request is genuine), scenes of rape
>*are* depicted in film. It is a topic that a movie newsgroup should be willing to
>discuss.
Perhaps you missed the bulk of the post, where "Al Lal" wrote:
"What is the best female rape scene in a movie?"
and...
"...but the rape scene ends before the rape is over - that is what
many movies do, they do not show the rape in detail, leaving it to the
viewers imagination. I want realistic detailed rape scenes that cover
the whole length of the rape."
'Al Lal" isn't just bringing up a topic for discussion. "Al Lal" is
one sick fuck.
Dawn
(and on Usenet, that's saying something)
-------------------
It is absurd to divide people into good or bad. People are
either charming or tedious. -Oscar Wilde
Luis Carruthers
I love you, Al Lal- for trying, anyway. I just love that phrasing. "the
best female rape scene". Not the most brutal, not the most graphic, not
the most outrageous, most horrible, or most disturbing. No, no, no. Of
course none of those. Those may have gotten you cooperative responses.
You had to go for the positive superlative. Oh, how I love the positive
superlative. It's so daring. Although, I have to give you credit for
specifying "female" in the header. Most people just go for "rape",
leaving the witty respondant to come back with some line about you being
raped. This was certainly clever wording on your part. A big step
forward in the field of Posts Requesting Info/Descriptions/Locations of
Rape scenes, but I'm afraid there's still so much further to go.
> What is the best female rape scene in a movie? I cant remember the
> last time I saw a rape in a movie. Those of you in the know can help
> me out.
Nothing recent. Scary Movie 2 almost had a rape scene, except it was
Tori Spelling, so of course, she was into it. I'll tell you a movie with
a bunch of rape scenes- The Entity. Supernatural horror movie featuring
Joel Silver. Based on a true story, it's the account of a housewife and
mother plagued by an invisible, violent force so bold that it has no
reservations about brutally battering and raping her in the middle of her
living room, in front of her kids and everything. Joel Silver doesn't
play the housewife, by the way. He's a psychiatrist with the arrogance
of Joel Silver. It's funny how, for a movie based on reality, this
woman's psychiatrist just happened to be exactly as arrogant as Joel
Silver, don't you think? Anyway, don't watch this one at night. It's
too creepy. And it probably won't serve well as whacking material, just
in case you're a sicko, but not a poltergeist. If you are a poltergeist,
it should be a barrel of laughs!
>
>
> Elisabeth Shue in Leaving Las Vegas, its an excellent movie, but the
> rape scene ends before the rape is over - that is what many movies do,
> they do not show the rape in detail, leaving it to the viewers
> imagination.
That reminds me of another Shue movie- The Hollow Man. IIRC, Kevin
Bacon's rape of a neighbor was also abbreviated. Not that there wasn't
sufficient inappropriate fondling for me. Well, actually, there wasn't,
but that's beside the point. The many scientific principles that movie
violated were enough entertainment for me, and I'll forgive Verhoeven for
not being as twisted as usual.
> I want realistic detailed rape scenes that cover the
> whole length of the rape.
My suggestion- make a home movie. If you want something done right, you
gotta do it yourself.
-----
I don't understand why male anal rape is accepted and laughed at by so
many, but female anal rape isn't. After all, everyone has an ass. I say
on that arena, we're all equals. I move for Anal Equality Among
Everyone!
-----
:)
-----
Haven't you heard- a smiley makes everything A-OK!
jrob
Dawn Taylor wrote:
> On Tue, 09 Apr 2002 02:36:29 GMT, jrob <jro...@hvc.rr.com> wrote:
>
> >To the defense of Al Lal (without knowing if the request is genuine), scenes of rape
> >*are* depicted in film. It is a topic that a movie newsgroup should be willing to
> >discuss.
>
> Perhaps you missed the bulk of the post, where "Al Lal" wrote:
>
> "What is the best female rape scene in a movie?"
>
> and...
>
> "...but the rape scene ends before the rape is over - that is what
> many movies do, they do not show the rape in detail, leaving it to the
> viewers imagination. I want realistic detailed rape scenes that cover
> the whole length of the rape."
>
> 'Al Lal" isn't just bringing up a topic for discussion. "Al Lal" is
> one sick fuck.
>
> Dawn
> (and on Usenet, that's saying something)
>
> Dawn,
> I'm not willing to call Al Lal a sick fuck based on his less than eloquent
> request. I looked up his other posts and don't see a pattern. Although I do believe
> he is a youngster, he may be asking in a more inquisitive manner and less pathological
> one than you're willing to believe. He also asked for the "best" death scene, and his
> description of what he meant didn't seem that sickly. I would have, for the benefit of
> those on the receiving end of the posts, rephrased the question more along the line of
> , "what is the most realistic depiction of rape on film"? In creating a description of
> what he meant, he did come off like "wants" to "see it all" for some weird reason.
> Again, I don't know if the request is genuine or not, but for the sake of argument,
> there have been films where the director and actors are willing to go much further than
> is/was traditionally acceptable. These films hit you in the gut and really give you so
> much more "visual" detail of the brutality of rape in contrast to those films where
> screams are heard in the background and you the viewer are left to create the image in
> your own mind. Sometimes less is more. But sometimes, when the horrible side of human
> nature is undeniably shown to you, forced into you eyes, you are often left more shaken
> (and therfore more moved) than had that image been left up to you to create for
> yourself.
> Note to Al Lal, I'm not saying these posters are wrong about you. I've given you
> the benefit of the doubt so far. You may be a sick fuck for all I know. If you don't
> want people thinking such, wise up when posting about sensitive topics (i.e rape) and
> think about what you write and how it's being received on the other end before you
> post. This is a great newgroup, and if you want to participate without being ignored
> or KILLFILED use your head. If you are a sick little fuck just get lost.
Luis Carruthers
> On Tue, 09 Apr 2002 02:36:29 GMT, jrob <jro...@hvc.rr.com> wrote:
>
> >To the defense of Al Lal (without knowing if the request is genuine), scenes of rape
> >*are* depicted in film. It is a topic that a movie newsgroup should be willing to
> >discuss.
>
> Perhaps you missed the bulk of the post, where "Al Lal" wrote:
>
> "What is the best female rape scene in a movie?"
>
> and...
>
> "...but the rape scene ends before the rape is over - that is what
> many movies do, they do not show the rape in detail, leaving it to the
> viewers imagination. I want realistic detailed rape scenes that cover
> the whole length of the rape."
>
> 'Al Lal" isn't just bringing up a topic for discussion. "Al Lal" is
> one sick fuck.
>
> Dawn
> (and on Usenet, that's saying something)
Oh, please. On Usenet, that's saying nothing. It's like pointing to someone on the
street and saying, "that guy's right handed." Hell, in some places online they consider
"sick fuck" a compliment. Or a pick up line.
-----
There's more than one way to skin a cat. And I can prove it.
Luis Carruthers
> I like those scenes where the girl deserves it.
LOL!
Kilroy Bass
"I Spit on Your Grave", "Ms. 45", "Accused".
Rape doesn't have to include graphic scenes.
I don't think explicit graphical rape scenes are what audiences are
interested in anymore. Maybe in the foreign market, but quite
possibly not in the mainstream Hollywood films. About Leaving Las
Vegas, what were you watching? The rape scene of Sera (Elizabeth
Shue's character) was pretty intense already, what with her being
punched in the face numerous times by the high-school punks and spit
at and cussed at. The framing of the whole scene was disturbing
enough. Then when it was all over, we see Sera in the shower, and we
see the after effects of her rape.
Giftzwerg
madk...@golden.net says...
> > Congradulations!
> I, however, have won the Hey Stupid, Nice Homonym Award for my use of the word "one"
> instead of "won" above. Still, though, just in case you missed the memo: rape = bad.
See also "Common Misspellings of a Counterintuitive Nature."
--
Giftzwerg
***
"The Organization of the Islamic Conference is
wrapping up its meeting of the world's 57 Muslim
nations. Who among us has not slept more soundly
knowing that these titans of world peace are on
the job in Kuala Lumpur? Alas, the conference
floundered on the dagger-edged conundrum of whether
blowing up children in pizza parlors constitutes
terrorism."
- Jonah Goldberg
Giftzwerg
lal...@hotmail.com says...
> What is the best female rape scene in a movie? I cant remember the
> last time I saw a rape in a movie. Those of you in the know can help
> me out.
This post is not nearly disturbing enough for USENET. Please
incorporate non-human or non-living creatures.
R. Cohen
You mean like Straw Dogs
Al Lal
watching graphic voilence and sex in films. Some of you are offended
by the threads name, and by my choice of words in my post. There is
nothing I can do about that now. Art should show the human condition
in all its ecstasy and agony. I firmly believe this. Maybe some of
you are not mature enough to deal with graphic rape in movies. I just
wanted to find out what the best female rape scenes in movies were.
Through art we can share all our joy, and all our pain, and it is
wonderful to be able to enjoy feeling through film.
Al Lal
Mason Barge
>Al Lal wrote:
>
>I love you, Al Lal- for trying, anyway. I just love that phrasing. "the
>best female rape scene". Not the most brutal, not the most graphic, not
>the most outrageous, most horrible, or most disturbing. No, no, no. Of
>course none of those. Those may have gotten you cooperative responses.
>You had to go for the positive superlative. Oh, how I love the positive
>superlative. It's so daring. Although, I have to give you credit for
>specifying "female" in the header.
Probably because best male rape scene would be no contest. Think
"medieval".
--
Mason Barge
"People who like this sort of thing will find this the sort of thing they like."
-- Abraham Lincoln
Mason Barge
I would have to say "Straw Dogs". "I Spit on Your Grave" is more
graphic (if you can imagine) but it is such a terrible movie.
Actually the rape scene in Death Wish was extremely good, but it's a
rape/murder and is rather short and might cut out some of the detail.
Earlier I said Pulp Fiction had the best male rape scene, but
Deliverance just came to mind.
ANIM8Rfsk
"medieval". >>
"Deliverance" was "medieval"? :-)
Kevin FilmNutBoy
I'm guessing "Boys Don't Cry" is one of your favorite movies.
--Kevin
***
"This is between me and the vegetable."
Leif Magnar Kj|nn|y
Mason Barge <masonbar...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>Probably because best male rape scene would be no contest. Think
>"medieval".
Yes contest. Think "squeal like a pig".
--
Leif Kj{\o}nn{\o}y | "Its habit of getting up late you'll agree
www.pvv.org/~leifmk| That it carries too far, when I say
Math geek and gamer| That it frequently breakfasts at five-o'clock tea,
GURPS, Harn, CORPS | And dines on the following day." (Carroll)
Richard
<gift...@NOSPAMZ.dwp.net> wrote:
>In article <b7acbb2a.02040...@posting.google.com>,
>lal...@hotmail.com says...
>
>> What is the best female rape scene in a movie? I cant remember the
>> last time I saw a rape in a movie. Those of you in the know can help
>> me out.
>
>This post is not nearly disturbing enough for USENET. Please
>incorporate non-human or non-living creatures.
Most convincing rape scene was Elizabeth Montgomery in
a TV movie I remember seeing. Just can't remember the name.
-Rich
Richard
wrote:
Only if you're a country bumbkin who likes seeing his
fellow hicks psychoanalyzed.
-Rich
trotsky
Al Lal wrote:
>
> Thanks for all your responses to my thread. I occasionally enjoy
> watching graphic voilence and sex in films. Some of you are offended
> by the threads name, and by my choice of words in my post. There is
> nothing I can do about that now. Art should show the human condition
> in all its ecstasy and agony. I firmly believe this.
You clearly should've consulted Ms. Taylor first.
trotsky
Would that automatically make him a sick fuck?
Kevin FilmNutBoy
terry king
[deletia throughout]
> Some of you are offended by the threads name, and by my choice
> of words in my post. There is nothing I can do about that now.
> Maybe some of you are not mature enough to deal with graphic
> rape in movies.
Given the thread's subject line and your choice of wording in your
original post, I had the distinct impression you were pursuing the
topic out of prurient interest. "I want realistic detailed rape scenes
that cover the whole length of the rape" has a salacious tone lacking
in today's more mature opinion that "Art should show the human
condition in all its ecstasy and agony."
Rather than spanking your readers for drawing not-unreasonable
conclusions from a carelessly crafted post, you might consider drafting
future queries in such a way that they do not smack of teenage hormones
seeking material to spark a good wank. There's less fuss, and you might
get a greater number of useful replies.
| The bookish fantasize about leather as much as the
Terry King | next man (or woman), though that leather is, of
preacher mit edu | course, liable to be a full morocco binding, with
| blind-stamped decorations and a hubbed spine.
- Michael Dirda
GSS/H v3.0 c++@ W++ N+++ M+$ t+ 5++ X++ R* b+++ DI++++ x? <*>
DNRC: Sublime Guardian of Paradox, Anachronism, and the Absurd
Marc Fleury
>Some of you are offended by the threads name, and by my choice
>of words in my post. There is nothing I can do about that now.
...
>I just wanted to find out what the best female rape scenes in movies were.
Well, see ... you *could* have phrased it differently in this new
post. You just said that there's nothing you can do about changing the
original thread title, but you certainly could have changed your
wording *this* time. And yet you still called it the "best" rape
scene. Why?
--
Marc.
aa #1971
Dawn Taylor
>Thanks for all your responses to my thread.
You're welcome! As I was so thoroughly chastised by a couple of other
posters, I guess I was wrong about you. You're either a young kid with
a healthy curiosity about movies, or (as another poster suggested)
just another wacky Usenet guy who shouldn't be tweaked for your
question.
Either way, I apologize. You couldn't possibly be some sick, twisted
fuck who likes to see women brutalized. I must have overreacted.
>I occasionally enjoy
>watching graphic voilence and sex in films ...Maybe some of
>you are not mature enough to deal with graphic rape in movies. I just
>wanted to find out what the best female rape scenes in movies were.
Ooops. I guess I spoke too soon.
Dawn
Mason Barge
<gift...@NOSPAMZ.dwp.net> wrote:
>In article <b7acbb2a.02040...@posting.google.com>,
>lal...@hotmail.com says...
>
>> What is the best female rape scene in a movie? I cant remember the
>> last time I saw a rape in a movie. Those of you in the know can help
>> me out.
>
>This post is not nearly disturbing enough for USENET. Please
>incorporate non-human or non-living creatures.
I can think of two pretty good ones: Rosemary's Baby (incredible for
its time) and Demon Seed.
Mason Barge
Magnar Kj|nn|y) wrote:
>In article <3cb2eaab...@65.82.44.7>,
>Mason Barge <masonbar...@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>>Probably because best male rape scene would be no contest. Think
>>"medieval".
>
>Yes contest. Think "squeal like a pig".
>
Yeah, I thought of this almost immediately after I posted, and stuck
it in another post. Agreed.
ANIM8Rfsk
a TV movie I remember seeing. Just can't remember the name. >>
IIRC, A Case of Rape
Dawn Taylor
Giftzwerg wrote:
> In article <b7acbb2a.02040...@posting.google.com>,
> lal...@hotmail.com says...
>
> > What is the best female rape scene in a movie? I cant remember the
> > last time I saw a rape in a movie. Those of you in the know can help
> > me out.
>
> This post is not nearly disturbing enough for USENET. Please
> incorporate non-human or non-living creatures.
Now, back in the old days of Usenet, we had some REAL freaks, I tells ya!
T'wren't a week that'd go by without some fellow askin' about pony-blowing
or rape by one-legged robotic midgets, or wimmens what got sodomized with
their own dismembered arms.
These young'uns today, all they can think up is "best female rape." Why,
in my day, that'd count as polite conversation!
Dawn
(we gots to take 'em behind the barn and learn 'em a thing or two)
ANIM8Rfsk
<< or wimmens what got sodomized with
their own dismembered arms. >>
I LOVED that movie!
My Darkstar
> Most convincing rape scene was Elizabeth Montgomery in
> a TV movie I remember seeing. Just can't remember the name.
> -Rich
"Sins of the Mother"
Bob
Blakesq wrote:
> I like those scenes where the girl deserves it.
No woman ever deserves rape.
ever.
Bob
Bob
Al Lal wrote:
You think rape can be artistic? I truly hope you do not live near me.
Then again, I do have a rifle and a pistol.
Bob
4dtvman
> What is the best female rape scene in a movie? I cant remember the
> last time I saw a rape in a movie. Those of you in the know can help
> me out.
>
> Elisabeth Shue in Leaving Las Vegas, its an excellent movie, but the
> rape scene ends before the rape is over - that is what many movies do,
> they do not show the rape in detail, leaving it to the viewers
> imagination. I want realistic detailed rape scenes that cover the
> whole length of the rape.
Although, I've seen many female rape scenes in mainstream movies, I
can't really think of any that meet your specifications (if I can
think of any later, I'll post them). This is because, for the most
part, rape scenes in mainstream movies are intended to be shocking as
opposed to erotic. Have you also noticed that in most female rape
scenes, the woman being raped is rarely stripped completely naked
while the rape is being shown? Most of the time, she's partially or
mostly clothed during the rape, although she is often shown lying
naked on a bed or on the ground AFTER the scene cuts away from the
rape. Once again, this is because rape scenes in mainstream movies are
not intended to be erotic.
However, I have found another theme in mainsteam movies that is much
more erotic than female rape scenes (whether intentional or not). I
call them female humiliation scenes. I find these to be very erotic.
Now, due to the political correctness of our current times, they are
not shown near as much nowadays as they were in the '70's, '80's, and
early '90's. Here are some of my favorites:
Prime Cut (mid '70's) - Sissy Spacek and some other girl are sold into
white slavery and paraded around completely nude (full frontal) in
several scenes.
Trip with the Teacher (mid '70's) - Zalman King (of "Red Shoe Diaries"
fame) kidnaps a female teacher and her female students in the desert.
He forces the students to strip to skimpy panties only and then strips
the teacher down to her panties also and then rips them off of her.
Sweet Country (mid '80's) - Women are rounded up by soldiers in a
third world county into a gymnasium and forced to strip completely
naked.
Bandit Queen (early '90's) - In this movie from India, the title
character is caught and punished for her deeds by being paraded
through the town chained and completely naked.
Love Crimes (early '90's) - This is my favorite nude scene of all time
and will probably never be topped. Sean Young is in the bathtub (with
soap bubbles covering everything). She is then forced to stand up.
When she first stands up, she is covering her crotch with her hands
although her breasts are exposed. She is then forced to move her hands
away from her body, giving us the best full frontal nude scene in
movie history.
If I think of some more good ones later, I'll post them.
4dtvman
Ken Ream
"Mason Barge" <masonbar...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:3cb2eafc...@65.82.44.7...
> On 8 Apr 2002 17:14:49 -0700, lal...@hotmail.com (Al Lal) wrote:
>
> >What is the best female rape scene in a movie? I cant remember the
> >last time I saw a rape in a movie. Those of you in the know can help
> >me out.
> >
> >Elisabeth Shue in Leaving Las Vegas, its an excellent movie, but the
> >rape scene ends before the rape is over - that is what many movies do,
> >they do not show the rape in detail, leaving it to the viewers
> >imagination. I want realistic detailed rape scenes that cover the
> >whole length of the rape.
> >
> >Al Lal
>
> I would have to say "Straw Dogs". "I Spit on Your Grave" is more
> graphic (if you can imagine) but it is such a terrible movie.
> Actually the rape scene in Death Wish was extremely good, but it's a
> rape/murder and is rather short and might cut out some of the detail.
>
> Earlier I said Pulp Fiction had the best male rape scene, but
> Deliverance just came to mind.
>
I debated adding to this thread because I'm still suspect of the o.p.'s
motives but (with that in mind):
I have to go beyond cinematic releases and go with Dr. Melfi's
rape on "The Sopranos". You get the whole ugly thing start
to finish (and it takes only seconds). Its brutal, graphic, and one of the
most disturbing things I've seen on film/video. There's nothing
sexually titillating about it. It just shows what an ugly violent
act rape is.
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
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4dtvman
> lal...@hotmail.com (Al Lal) wrote:
> [deletia throughout]
> > Some of you are offended by the threads name, and by my choice
> > of words in my post. There is nothing I can do about that now.
>
> > Maybe some of you are not mature enough to deal with graphic
> > rape in movies.
>
>
> Given the thread's subject line and your choice of wording in your
> original post, I had the distinct impression you were pursuing the
> topic out of prurient interest. "I want realistic detailed rape scenes
> that cover the whole length of the rape" has a salacious tone lacking
> in today's more mature opinion that "Art should show the human
> condition in all its ecstasy and agony."
>
> Rather than spanking your readers for drawing not-unreasonable
> conclusions from a carelessly crafted post, you might consider drafting
> future queries in such a way that they do not smack of teenage hormones
> seeking material to spark a good wank. There's less fuss, and you might
> get a greater number of useful replies.
Terry, to you and all the others who have been so critical of Al, I
must say that your political correctness is showing. If Al happens to
get his rocks off on mainstream female rape scenes, big freakin' deal.
It's not like anyone is really getting hurt. These are just movies,
for Christ sake, and mainstream movies at that. These are not real
rapes or something akin to snuff films, for crying out load. This
politically correct society of ours just continues to amaze me. People
think all kinds of deviant behavior like homosexuality, bi-sexuality,
transexuality, cross-dressing, etc. are just fine, but certain types
of heterosexual fantasies and fetishes are comepletely intolerable.
sonia.alexander
~S~
Bob <chil...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:3CB34631...@ix.netcom.com...
Blakesq
in article 3CB34631...@ix.netcom.com, Bob at chil...@ix.netcom.com
wrote on 4/9/02 12:51 PM:
Aris Katsaris
"4dtvman" <tmitch...@att.net> wrote in message
news:95f90cc2.02040...@posting.google.com...
> terry king <prea...@mit.N0SP4M.edu> wrote in message
news:<090420021039548450%prea...@mit.N0SP4M.edu>...
> >
> > conclusions from a carelessly crafted post, you might consider drafting
> > future queries in such a way that they do not smack of teenage hormones
> > seeking material to spark a good wank. There's less fuss, and you might
> > get a greater number of useful replies.
>
> Terry, to you and all the others who have been so critical of Al, I
> must say that your political correctness is showing.
Nothing to do with political correctness. If he'd asked about this in olden
times of no "political correctness", it's possible he might have gotten an
even worse response than the one he got now.
> This
> politically correct society of ours just continues to amaze me. People
> think all kinds of deviant behavior like homosexuality, bi-sexuality,
> transexuality, cross-dressing, etc. are just fine, but certain types
> of heterosexual fantasies and fetishes are comepletely intolerable.
Has nothing to do with whether the fantasies are heterosexual or not.
It has to do with whether the fantasies concern brutally hurting people.
If he asked the best scenes where a child is tortured to death, explaining how
he'd really prefer to see the blood and tears and every wound at its close
brutality and in the end see the child's brains on the floor, he'd probably
have gotten just as bad a response.
Try to think a bit about people's motivations and reasons for reacting rather
than accuse everyone you disagree with the so vague accusation of "political
correctness". It's good for the brain to contemplate people's motivations rather
than wave them aside as easily as you did.
Aris Katsaris
Dan Day
wrote:
>
> or wimmens what got sodomized with
>their own dismembered arms.
"Re-animator": Best scene involving a woman receiving
oral sex from a severed head.
<Insert "getting head" joke here>
Come to think of it, it was against her will, so
I guess we're still on topic for the thread.
Bob
"sonia.alexander" wrote:
> That is sick !!
Are you saying that some women deserve rape?
If so, when? and Why?
Bob
Bob
Blakesq wrote:
> What if she won't shut up?
I am assuming that was an attempt at a joke.
Have you ever known a rape victim? I have.
I think that rape ( no, not "statutory" rape) should carry a sentence of life
with no parole.
Bob
Chris
>
>
> Blakesq wrote:
>
> > What if she won't shut up?
>
> I am assuming that was an attempt at a joke.
> Have you ever known a rape victim? I have.
> I think that rape ( no, not "statutory" rape) should carry a sentence of
life
> with no parole.
> Bob
I seem to remember a time when rape carried the death penality but that was
changed because jurys were letting people off because they thought that was
too severe.
Bruce Hoult
"Chris" <ocea...@prodigy.net> wrote:
> "Bob" <chil...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
> news:3CB396B3...@ix.netcom.com...
> >
> >
> > Blakesq wrote:
> >
> > > What if she won't shut up?
> >
> > I am assuming that was an attempt at a joke.
> > Have you ever known a rape victim? I have.
> > I think that rape ( no, not "statutory" rape) should carry a sentence of
> life
> > with no parole.
> > Bob
>
> I seem to remember a time when rape carried the death penality but that was
> changed because jurys were letting people off because they thought that was
> too severe.
A practical reason is that if the penalty for rape is the same as for
murder then a rapist will be encouraged to kill the victim.
-- Bruce
Marcello Penso
> by the threads name, and by my choice of words in my post. There is
> in all its ecstasy and agony.
Why?
> I firmly believe this. Maybe some of
> you are not mature enough to deal with graphic rape in movies.
What is mature about witnessing a realistic depiction of anything? Have
you ever been in a car accident? If so, did you behave 'maturely' while
you were in it?
> I just
> wanted to find out what the best female rape scenes in movies were.
> Through art we can share all our joy, and all our pain, and it is
> wonderful to be able to enjoy feeling through film.
>
>
> Al Lal
>
Marcello
Ang
>Terry, to you and all the others who have been so critical of Al, I
>must say that your political correctness is showing. If Al happens to
>get his rocks off on mainstream female rape scenes, big freakin' deal.
>It's not like anyone is really getting hurt. These are just movies,
>for Christ sake, and mainstream movies at that. These are not real
>rapes or something akin to snuff films, for crying out load. This
>politically correct society of ours just continues to amaze me. People
>think all kinds of deviant behavior like homosexuality, bi-sexuality,
>transexuality, cross-dressing, etc. are just fine, but certain types
>of heterosexual fantasies and fetishes are comepletely intolerable.
Wow. This post is only marginally less disturbing than the original one.
Eeeks!
***********
"Truly great madness cannot be achieved without significant intelligence."
- Henrik Tikkanen
Blakesq
no parole, especially if the girl just lies back and enjoys it.
in article 3CB396B3...@ix.netcom.com, Bob at chil...@ix.netcom.com
wrote on 4/9/02 6:34 PM:
jrob
>
> What is mature about witnessing a realistic depiction of anything? Have
> you ever been in a car accident? If so, did you behave 'maturely' while
> you were in it?
>
Have you ever seen assholes at the movies who laugh when it is completely
inappropriate? That would be an example of immature reactions to realistic
depictions. There are others who go to the movies to indeed be moved by
what they see and it takes a mature mind to react appropriately. Hence,
"for mature audiences", and the not so hard to understand notion that you
don't take your 9 year old to Black Hawk Down (no matter how mature his
reaction might be).
In response to your question above:
Mature response to car accident: "Wow, what just happened, I hope
everybody is all right."
Immature response to car accident: "Dude did you see that guy's head
explode, that was cool"
Now, apply that to the movies and I'm sure you can see that not everybody
will view sensitive matter in the same way.
Kilroy Bass
Hentai? Imported from Japan, it's collected by folks. Apparently,
the savage assault of a pristine female at the branches of an alien
life form is considered entertainment.
Kilroy Bass
> motives but (with that in mind):
>
> I have to go beyond cinematic releases and go with Dr. Melfi's
> rape on "The Sopranos". You get the whole ugly thing start
> to finish (and it takes only seconds). Its brutal, graphic, and one of the
> most disturbing things I've seen on film/video. There's nothing
> sexually titillating about it. It just shows what an ugly violent
> act rape is.
Casualties of War. Repeated rape of a Vietnamese woman by the
soldiers, with exception of moralistic Michael J Fox character. The
effects was the same as you had described: ugly, brutal, disturbing.
Giftzwerg
says...
> Either way, I apologize. You couldn't possibly be some sick, twisted
> fuck who likes to see women brutalized. I must have overreacted.
Hmmm. Much as I also think folks who enjoy graphic, vivid depictions of
rape have an extra little bone somewhere in their head that most of us
(fortunately...) lack, it occurs to me to mention...
The other day I watched[1] COMMANDO on the tube, and marveled at the
number of men that Schwarzeneggar mowed down. He shot men, blew men to
pieces, knifed men, hurled circular-saw blades into men's skulls,
machinegunned men, roasted men, killed men with his bare hands, dropped
men from cliffs, hurled men onto wooden stakes, and jammed steam pipes
through men's torsos.
Obviously, an accurate accounting of the number of butchered men would
be impossible, since some of the mayhem clearly involved massive carnage
among off-stage indigenous personnel - but I'd have to guess that the
film cheerfully depicted the slaughter of upwards of 500 men, and was a
reasonably popular film, and films like it are avidly discussed in the
group every day...
...and, uh, we think this Al Lal is twisted because he wants to see
*one* woman get raped?
Are we perfectly confident of our moral calculus here?
[1] Yes. I watched it. I'm not proud of it.
--
Giftzwerg
***
"The Organization of the Islamic Conference is
wrapping up its meeting of the world's 57 Muslim
nations. Who among us has not slept more soundly
knowing that these titans of world peace are on
the job in Kuala Lumpur? Alas, the conference
floundered on the dagger-edged conundrum of whether
blowing up children in pizza parlors constitutes
terrorism."
- Jonah Goldberg
Steve Lee
>Blakesq wrote:
>
>> I like those scenes where the girl deserves it.
>
>LOL!
How is that funny to you? I suppose you enjoy being rammed up the ass
when you "deserve" it?
Giftzwerg
kilro...@catlover.com says...
> Casualties of War. Repeated rape of a Vietnamese woman by the
> soldiers, with exception of moralistic Michael J Fox character. The
> effects was the same as you had described: ugly, brutal, disturbing.
Well, subsequently they do *murder* her, don't they?
I find this a fascinating point; it's almost as though some people
consider rape *worse* than murder.
Apologies if this thought is politically incorrect, but I'd rather be
raped a dozen times than murdered just once.
Steve Lee
answer will come to you. Oh, btw, the best rape scene I can think of
is when I raped your mother. Now, that was good shit.
How does that make you feel? Good, I'm sure. All the more reasons
you should seek help. Better yet, why don't you spend a weekend in a
penitentiary? I'm sure it'll get you off real good.
On 8 Apr 2002 17:14:49 -0700, lal...@hotmail.com (Al Lal) wrote:
>What is the best female rape scene in a movie? I cant remember the
>last time I saw a rape in a movie. Those of you in the know can help
>me out.
>
>Elisabeth Shue in Leaving Las Vegas, its an excellent movie, but the
>rape scene ends before the rape is over - that is what many movies do,
>they do not show the rape in detail, leaving it to the viewers
>imagination. I want realistic detailed rape scenes that cover the
>whole length of the rape.
Yep, the last sentence says pretty much what you're all about.
Steve Lee
>Thanks for all your responses to my thread. I occasionally enjoy
>watching graphic voilence and sex in films. Some of you are offended
>by the threads name, and by my choice of words in my post. There is
>nothing I can do about that now. Art should show the human condition
>in all its ecstasy and agony. I firmly believe this.
I see where you get your kicks from. Your mother told me she loved it
when your daddy raped you up the ass.
> Maybe some of
>you are not mature enough to deal with graphic rape in movies.
Sure we are. But as for "I want realistic detailed rape scenes that
cover the whole length of the rape.", well, that's for your own sick
pleasure, isn't it?
> I just
>wanted to find out what the best female rape scenes in movies were.
So, you can learn from it and act it out when you get a chance?
>Through art we can share all our joy, and all our pain, and it is
>wonderful to be able to enjoy feeling through film.
So, you're saying it's "wonderful to be able to enjoy" the "feeling"
or rape "through film", right? In which case, do the society a favor
and slit your throat. Got that?
4dtvman
> "4dtvman" <tmitch...@att.net> wrote in message
> news:95f90cc2.02040...@posting.google.com...
> > terry king <prea...@mit.N0SP4M.edu> wrote in message
> news:<090420021039548450%prea...@mit.N0SP4M.edu>...
> > >
> > > Rather than spanking your readers for drawing not-unreasonable
> > > conclusions from a carelessly crafted post, you might consider drafting
> > > future queries in such a way that they do not smack of teenage hormones
> > > seeking material to spark a good wank. There's less fuss, and you might
> > > get a greater number of useful replies.
> >
> > Terry, to you and all the others who have been so critical of Al, I
> > must say that your political correctness is showing.
>
> Nothing to do with political correctness.
Perhaps I was overreaching to say that all criticism of Al was due to
political correctness, but I still maintain that the majority of it
is.
> If he'd asked about this in olden
> times of no "political correctness", it's possible he might have gotten an
> even worse response than the one he got now.
I don't know what world you come from, but the times of no "political
correctness" were LESS sensitive to movie depictions of violence
against women, gays, minorities, etc. If you don't believe this, then
go back and look at some of the movies from the 1970's and you'll see
things that are totally unacceptable in movies of today. In some of
those movies, you will see a lot more graphic female rape scenes,
humiliation of women, and violence and degradation of minorites and
gays. Also, back in the 1970's and early 1980's, there was no specific
movie advisory for "rape". If a movie had a rape scene and/or other
violence, it just merited the "violence" advisory (I still have some
of my old HBO guides from the late 1970's and early 1980's to prove
it). I'm not saying that I agree with all the stuff that was shown in
those days, I'm just pointing out a matter a fact that you don't seem
to realize. Perhaps, you are too young to remember those days.
>
> > This
> > politically correct society of ours just continues to amaze me. People
> > think all kinds of deviant behavior like homosexuality, bi-sexuality,
> > transexuality, cross-dressing, etc. are just fine, but certain types
> > of heterosexual fantasies and fetishes are comepletely intolerable.
>
> Has nothing to do with whether the fantasies are heterosexual or not.
You missed my point. What I was trying to say is that when people
condone stuff like homosexuality, bi-sexuality, trans-gendering, and
cross dressing and then at the same time condemn some forms of
heterosexual fantasies and fetishes, it smacks of hypocrisy. In my
opinion, even the mildest form of the deviant behaviors I listed above
are way more sickening than ANY heterosexual fantasy or fetish could
possibly be. All forms of heterosexuality trump all forms of
homosexuality, in my opinion, as long as no one is really getting
hurt. Of course, today's politically correct society doesn't see it
that way.
> It has to do with whether the fantasies concern brutally hurting people.
There is nothing wrong with fantasies that include violence as long as
one doesn't act on these fantasies and no one really gets hurt. You
would be surprised to know that many people who are very gentle and
would never hurt anyone have sexual fantasies involving violence,
sadism, and/or rape. Haven't you ever heard of people playing S&M
games where violence is simulated as a form of eroticism?
> If he asked the best scenes where a child is tortured to death, explaining how
> he'd really prefer to see the blood and tears and every wound at its close
> brutality and in the end see the child's brains on the floor, he'd probably
> have gotten just as bad a response.
Same response, maybe, but for a totally different reason. You are
comparing apples and oranges. Even during the politically incorrect
1970's that I alluded to above, I can't think of any example of
graphic child torture being dipicted in mainstream films. Therefore,
the response to this would have nothing to do with political
correctness, but rather moral values that our society has always held
to. By the way, anyone who would have fantasies like this is a
pedophile or some other deviant. This would definitely NOT be a
heterosexual fantasy.
>
> Try to think a bit about people's motivations and reasons for reacting rather
> than accuse everyone you disagree with the so vague accusation of "political
> correctness".
Well, I hope this posting has made my accusations of "political
correctness" a little less vague.
> It's good for the brain to contemplate people's motivations rather
> than wave them aside as easily as you did.
It sounds like you need to practice what you preach.
4dtvman
Mason Barge
<gift...@NOSPAMZ.dwp.net> wrote:
>In article <4c3ac3f0.02040...@posting.google.com>,
>kilro...@catlover.com says...
>
>> Casualties of War. Repeated rape of a Vietnamese woman by the
>> soldiers, with exception of moralistic Michael J Fox character. The
>> effects was the same as you had described: ugly, brutal, disturbing.
>
>Well, subsequently they do *murder* her, don't they?
>
>I find this a fascinating point; it's almost as though some people
>consider rape *worse* than murder.
>
>Apologies if this thought is politically incorrect, but I'd rather be
>raped a dozen times than murdered just once.
Well that is exactly right. Rape has become overemphasized a bit
because it is a crime against women, some of whom make political
capital from victimization. If the penal system tolerated the rape of
women to the degree it tolerates the rape of men, it would be a major
campaign issue.
--
Mason Barge
"People who like this sort of thing will find this the sort of thing they like."
-- Abraham Lincoln
4dtvman
> From: tmitch...@att.net (4dtvman):
>
> >Terry, to you and all the others who have been so critical of Al, I
> >must say that your political correctness is showing. If Al happens to
> >get his rocks off on mainstream female rape scenes, big freakin' deal.
> >It's not like anyone is really getting hurt. These are just movies,
> >for Christ sake, and mainstream movies at that. These are not real
> >rapes or something akin to snuff films, for crying out load. This
> >politically correct society of ours just continues to amaze me. People
> >think all kinds of deviant behavior like homosexuality, bi-sexuality,
> >transexuality, cross-dressing, etc. are just fine, but certain types
> >of heterosexual fantasies and fetishes are comepletely intolerable.
>
> Wow. This post is only marginally less disturbing than the original one.
>
> Eeeks!
Glad to be of service to you. :-)
4dtvman
> last time I saw a rape in a movie. Those of you in the know can help
> me out.
>
> Elisabeth Shue in Leaving Las Vegas, its an excellent movie, but the
> rape scene ends before the rape is over - that is what many movies do,
> they do not show the rape in detail, leaving it to the viewers
> whole length of the rape.
>
Okay, I've thought of two movies that might meet your specifications
(that I don't think anyone else has already recommended) but you'll
have to make sure you get the completely uncut versions and not a
rip-off edited version with the rape scene toned down:
Death Weekend (aka House by the Lake) - Benda Vacarro is tied up and
brutally raped.
The Baby of Macon - Julia Ormond is graphically gang-raped.
I think your best bet is to use the "power seach" feature on IMDB
using the key-word "rape" like someone else in this thread has already
suggested. You'll come up with 818 matches to scroll through.
4dtvman
Mason Barge
>"Aris Katsaris" <kats...@otenet.gr> wrote in message news:<a8vt1n$buv$1...@usenet.otenet.gr>...
>> "4dtvman" <tmitch...@att.net> wrote in message
>> news:95f90cc2.02040...@posting.google.com...
>> > terry king <prea...@mit.N0SP4M.edu> wrote in message
>> news:<090420021039548450%prea...@mit.N0SP4M.edu>...
>> > >
>> > > Rather than spanking your readers for drawing not-unreasonable
>> > > conclusions from a carelessly crafted post, you might consider drafting
>> > > future queries in such a way that they do not smack of teenage hormones
>> > > seeking material to spark a good wank. There's less fuss, and you might
>> > > get a greater number of useful replies.
>> >
>> > Terry, to you and all the others who have been so critical of Al, I
>> > must say that your political correctness is showing.
>>
>> Nothing to do with political correctness.
>
>Perhaps I was overreaching to say that all criticism of Al was due to
>political correctness, but I still maintain that the majority of it
>is.
It is nonsense. AI was slow and boring. I really can't even tell
whether one would claim that politically correct people are supposed
to have disliked it, or people who were reacting AGAINST political
correctness are supposed to have disliked it.
Plus, the impact of political correctness on movie attendance is
pretty much negligible. Witness Lion King.
>> If he'd asked about this in olden
>> times of no "political correctness", it's possible he might have gotten an
>> even worse response than the one he got now.
>
>I don't know what world you come from, but the times of no "political
>correctness" were LESS sensitive to movie depictions of violence
>against women, gays, minorities, etc. If you don't believe this, then
>go back and look at some of the movies from the 1970's and you'll see
>things that are totally unacceptable in movies of today.
Rape, murder, mutilation, violence against women, etc. were much less
common in movies made in the "old days". Sure you might see a guy
slap his wife in an old movie without the National Guard being
called, but I don't think you would have seen more sympathy for
wife-beating or rape.
The biggest difference, if you want to talk about political
correctness, was the former abhorrence of adultery and homosexual
activity.
Dawn Taylor
Giftzwerg wrote:
> In article <3cb8fd8b...@news.newsguy.com>, dawn...@pacifier.com
> says...
>
> > Either way, I apologize. You couldn't possibly be some sick, twisted
> > fuck who likes to see women brutalized. I must have overreacted.
>
> Hmmm. Much as I also think folks who enjoy graphic, vivid depictions of
> rape have an extra little bone somewhere in their head that most of us
> (fortunately...) lack, it occurs to me to mention...
>
> The other day I watched[1] COMMANDO on the tube, and marveled at the
> number of men that Schwarzeneggar mowed down. He shot men, blew men to
> pieces, knifed men, hurled circular-saw blades into men's skulls,
> machinegunned men, roasted men, killed men with his bare hands, dropped
> men from cliffs, hurled men onto wooden stakes, and jammed steam pipes
> through men's torsos.
>
> Obviously, an accurate accounting of the number of butchered men would
> be impossible, since some of the mayhem clearly involved massive carnage
> among off-stage indigenous personnel - but I'd have to guess that the
> film cheerfully depicted the slaughter of upwards of 500 men, and was a
> reasonably popular film, and films like it are avidly discussed in the
> group every day...
>
> ...and, uh, we think this Al Lal is twisted because he wants to see
> *one* woman get raped?
>
> Are we perfectly confident of our moral calculus here?
>
> [1] Yes. I watched it. I'm not proud of it.
Yeah, but did you get off on it, and then post to a Usenet group asking to
be pointed at more of the same?
Dawn
(I think my moral calculus is just dandy, actually)
Dawn Taylor
Mason Barge wrote:
> Well that is exactly right. Rape has become overemphasized a bit
> because it is a crime against women, some of whom make political
> capital from victimization.
Wow. You really are a complete horse's ass, aren't you?
Dawn
Bob
Chris wrote:
> "Bob" <chil...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
> news:3CB396B3...@ix.netcom.com...
> >
> >
> > Blakesq wrote:
> >
> > > What if she won't shut up?
> >
> > I am assuming that was an attempt at a joke.
> > Have you ever known a rape victim? I have.
> > I think that rape ( no, not "statutory" rape) should carry a sentence of
> life
> > with no parole.
> > Bob
>
> I seem to remember a time when rape carried the death penality but that was
> changed because jurys were letting people off because they thought that was
> too severe.
>
I can understand that, but now, with DNA evidence, there is far less chance of
condeming an innocent man. Secondly, I think that was at a time when rape was
not considered as heinous crime as today. We about have a family friend who
was raped 15 years ago. The rapist gets out ( end of sentence, not parole) in
4 years. She is terrified that he will be "coming to get her". Her fear may
be justified.
Bob
Bob
Bruce Hoult wrote:
Valid point. Very valid point.
Bob
Bob
Blakesq wrote:
> yes, i have known a rape victim. Rape shouldn't carry a life sentence with
> no parole, especially if the girl just lies back and enjoys it.
Yes. REEEELLLLYYY enjoys the beating, the chance of pregnancy, the even greater
chance of disease, some of which are incurable, the humiliation, yes, they really
enjoy it. How would you feel about it if it was your mother or sister, and GUESS
WHAT, the rapist is HIV positive.
But she should just "lay back and enjoy it". Especially having to give the rapist
a blow job with a gun to her head. Yeseree, I bet you think that's just "fun and
games".
Bob
4dtvman
> I don't understand why male anal rape is accepted and laughed at by so
> many, but female anal rape isn't.
Two words: political correctness.
Giftzwerg
dta...@clackamasreview.com says...
> Yeah, but did you get off on it, and then post to a Usenet group asking to
> be pointed at more of the same?
If watching men get slaughtered in wholesale lots was something I was
interested in, I certainly wouldn't need any special pointers to find
it.
> (I think my moral calculus is just dandy, actually)
Was it Stalin who said, "A single death is a tragedy. A million deaths
is a statistic."
Hollywood seems almost obsessive about statistics.
Richard
wrote:
>
>
>Blakesq wrote:
>
>> What if she won't shut up?
>
>I am assuming that was an attempt at a joke.
>Have you ever known a rape victim? I have.
>I think that rape ( no, not "statutory" rape) should carry a sentence of life
>with no parole.
>Bob
Severe beatings don't carry that kind of a sentence.
Given the choice, who would prefer the beating over rape?
-Rich
Dawn Taylor
Richard wrote:
I know it shouldn't still amaze me, but it does.
It amazes me that there are idiots out there who haven't even the remotest
inkling of how violent, traumatic and life-altering rape is.
And for some reason it still amazes me that you, Rich, are such a complete and
utter moron.
Dawn
(why ... why does it still surprise me?)
Bob
Richard wrote:
The point is, it's usually not an "either/or" situation. Its usually both. Ask
the cops. They'll tell you.
Rape is an act of revenge and submission, not sex. Quite often, the rapist cannot
climax unless he masturbates, ejaculating on the victim. If all somebody wanted
was sex, and just sex, that is easily available.
Bob
Bob
Dawn Taylor wrote:
Because he thinks rape is about sex, not force and subjugation, and mastery of the
victim.
Bob
Sven Milliam
the most graphic and disturbing rape scenes of any mainstream film:
"Saving Mr. Goodbar"
jrob
Sven Milliam wrote:
Looking For Mr. Goodbar (1977), Diane Keaton
Aris Katsaris
> > > politically correct society of ours just continues to amaze me. People
> > > think all kinds of deviant behavior like homosexuality, bi-sexuality,
> > > transexuality, cross-dressing, etc. are just fine, but certain types
> > > of heterosexual fantasies and fetishes are comepletely intolerable.
> >
> > Has nothing to do with whether the fantasies are heterosexual or not.
>
> You missed my point. What I was trying to say is that when people
> condone stuff like homosexuality, bi-sexuality, trans-gendering, and
> cross dressing and then at the same time condemn some forms of
> heterosexual fantasies and fetishes, it smacks of hypocrisy.
In what way does it smack of hypocricy to condone some stuff and not
condone some *different* stuff?
Hypocricy has to do with condoning some stuff when *you* do them, and
not condoning them when others do the *same* stuff.
> In my
> opinion, even the mildest form of the deviant behaviors I listed above
> are way more sickening than ANY heterosexual fantasy or fetish could
> possibly be.
So, according to this, fantasies involving the (heterosexual) rape of children
are way less sickening than fantasies involving two consenting adults of the
same gender.
Okay, I could go on to say that you are an idiot, but that wouldn't really
be helpful in our debate. I'll ask you instead in what way does your (IMO
stupid and offensive) opinion has to do with whether people who
DON'T share said opinion are hypocrites or not?
> All forms of heterosexuality trump all forms of
> homosexuality, in my opinion, as long as no one is really getting
> hurt.
As long as no one is getting hurt, it's nobody's business what different
people enjoy. That's the *point* of "condoning" homosexuality and
bisexuality.
The thing about rape fantasies ofcourse is that in them somebody *is*
getting hurt. Telling someone you fantacize about hurting them isn't
likely to make you many friends.
> Of course, today's politically correct society doesn't see it
> that way.
Has nothing to do with political correctness. Has to do with different
beliefs about what is moral and what isn't.
Rape: Immoral.
Homosexuality: Not immoral.
> You
> would be surprised to know that many people who are very gentle and
> would never hurt anyone have sexual fantasies involving violence,
> sadism, and/or rape. Haven't you ever heard of people playing S&M
> games where violence is simulated as a form of eroticism?
Of course I have. I won't comment on how *healthy* I find these things,
but neither will I call them immoral.
> > If he asked the best scenes where a child is tortured to death, explaining
how
> > he'd really prefer to see the blood and tears and every wound at its close
> > brutality and in the end see the child's brains on the floor, he'd probably
> > have gotten just as bad a response.
>
> Same response, maybe, but for a totally different reason. You are
> comparing apples and oranges. Even during the politically incorrect
> 1970's that I alluded to above, I can't think of any example of
> graphic child torture being dipicted in mainstream films. Therefore,
> the response to this would have nothing to do with political
> correctness, but rather moral values that our society has always held
> to.
My point is that it *all* has to do with moral values.
> By the way, anyone who would have fantasies like this is a
> pedophile or some other deviant. This would definitely NOT be a
> heterosexual fantasy.
I didn't mentiod the kid being raped, just tortured to death. As for
what is a "heterosexual" fantasy or not, I don't think you can simply
exclude what you yourself find wrong from this category.
> > Try to think a bit about people's motivations and reasons for reacting
rather
> > than accuse everyone you disagree with the so vague accusation of "political
> > correctness".
>
> Well, I hope this posting has made my accusations of "political
> correctness" a little less vague.
No. You still haven't shown why you think people share this attitude
because of "political correctness" rather than because their own set
of morals and values.
> > It's good for the brain to contemplate people's motivations rather
> > than wave them aside as easily as you did.
>
> It sounds like you need to practice what you preach.
In what way I waved aside and tried to guess at people's motivations?
I never tried to guess at *your* motivations, I'm sure - never blamed
your attitude on homophobia or religious fanaticism or latent sadomasochistic
tendencies. Neither did I try to guess at Al's motivations.
Aris Katsaris
Aris Katsaris
"Mason Barge" <masonbar...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:3cb462a5...@65.82.44.7...
> On 10 Apr 2002 08:05:40 -0700, tmitch...@att.net (4dtvman) wrote:
>
> >Perhaps I was overreaching to say that all criticism of Al was due to
> >political correctness, but I still maintain that the majority of it
> >is.
>
> It is nonsense. AI was slow and boring. I really can't even tell
> whether one would claim that politically correct people are supposed
> to have disliked it, or people who were reacting AGAINST political
> correctness are supposed to have disliked it.
Umm... there's a difference between Al (a person) and AI (a movie).
Aris Katsaris
Aris Katsaris
"Richard" <rande...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:s2a9bu4veeulla5sp...@4ax.com...
>
> Given the choice, who would prefer the beating over rape?
Most people would prefer to be beaten up, I'm sure, rather
than raped.
Aris Katsaris
Phil
Allyson is Watching
Baise-Moi
Casualties of War
Damned River
Eye for an Eye
Macon County Jail
Messenger, The
Naked
Paulina
Prison Heat
Opposing Force
Reason to Believe, A
Stella Does Tricks
Time Served
War Zone, The
Raw Deal: A Question of Consent [haven't seen it yet, true rape story]
Griffith
Can you show that what he said is incorrect, Dawn, or can you just call names?
Griffith
Geoff
here newsgroup
>>In article <4c3ac3f0.02040...@posting.google.com>,
>>kilro...@catlover.com says...
>>
>>> Casualties of War. Repeated rape of a Vietnamese woman by the
>>> soldiers, with exception of moralistic Michael J Fox character. The
>>> effects was the same as you had described: ugly, brutal, disturbing.
>>
>>Well, subsequently they do *murder* her, don't they?
>>
>>I find this a fascinating point; it's almost as though some people
>>consider rape *worse* than murder.
Good point. I think the reasoning behind it has to do with
surviving the crime. Murder, after all, does not entail the
humiliation, per se, of the victim. The victim is dead and
unable to feel any further humliation or abuse. Nor does
the victim have to "live with the memories."
Also, I suspect that violation of body integrity is
something we can all relate to much more easily than
cessation of being, on a visceral level. We've all suffered
cuts and wounds of various sorts.
>>Apologies if this thought is politically incorrect, but I'd rather be
>>raped a dozen times than murdered just once.
>>
>>--
>>Giftzwerg
Not at all PiC, but hell, I don't know...being raped a dozen
times could really fuck you up, one way or another. I think
I'd rather be murdered.
Regards,
Geoff "I mean, if I really have to."
"Words, words. They're all we have to go on."
--Guildenstern, in Tom Stoppard's "Rosencrantz & Guildenstern Are Dead"
Silverlock
wrote:
>
>
>Blakesq wrote:
>
>> I like those scenes where the girl deserves it.
>
>No woman ever deserves rape.
>ever.
>Bob
The bitch in the Last Seduction deserves to be raped by a guy wearing
a condom covered in powdered glass. Up the ass.
--
Silverlock, ICQ 474725,
Household Pests? The SW-404 'SpitFire' APRL cleansing system
will remove them, we Guarantee IT! Not responsible for damage
to persons or structures from use of this product.
Dial 1-800-FRY-THEM for info and a home demonstration.
Kevin FilmNutBoy
>The bitch in the Last Seduction deserves to be raped by a guy wearing
>a condom covered in powdered glass. Up the ass.
He should wear the glass-covered condom in his ass? Weird.
--Kevin
***
"This is between me and the vegetable."
Giftzwerg
gbur...@erinet.com says...
> >>I find this a fascinating point; it's almost as though some people
> >>consider rape *worse* than murder.
>
> Good point. I think the reasoning behind it has to do with
> surviving the crime. Murder, after all, does not entail the
> humiliation, per se, of the victim.
Hmmm. Victims of attempted murder who survive report the same feelings
along these "humiliation" lines that rape victims do - and thus we can
conservatively interpolate similar mindsets to a murder victim who does
not survive.
Surely you cannot be arguing that the short (!) duration of a murdered
human being's feelings about the subject are a mitigating factor?
> The victim is dead and
> unable to feel any further humliation or abuse. Nor does
> the victim have to "live with the memories."
Hey, I'll take it, considering the alternative.
> Also, I suspect that violation of body integrity is
> something we can all relate to much more easily than
> cessation of being, on a visceral level. We've all suffered
> cuts and wounds of various sorts.
Again, though, your unseen premise here is that a murder victim is
"cleanly" cut off from all feeling as a part of being murdered. Nothing
could be further from the truth. As any homicide investigator would
tell you - and as millions of crime-scene photographs prove - the total,
complete, and ultimate horror of being murdered is not lost on the
victim. Perhaps it dies with them, but that seems rather a cold
comfort.
> >>Apologies if this thought is politically incorrect, but I'd rather be
> >>raped a dozen times than murdered just once.
> Not at all PiC, but hell, I don't know...being raped a dozen
> times could really fuck you up, one way or another. I think
> I'd rather be murdered.
Not me.
Marcello Penso
> >
> >
> > What is mature about witnessing a realistic depiction of anything? Have
> > you ever been in a car accident? If so, did you behave 'maturely' while
> > you were in it?
> >
>
> Have you ever seen assholes at the movies who laugh when it is completely
> inappropriate? That would be an example of immature reactions to realistic
> depictions. There are others who go to the movies to indeed be moved by
> what they see and it takes a mature mind to react appropriately. Hence,
> "for mature audiences", and the not so hard to understand notion that you
> don't take your 9 year old to Black Hawk Down (no matter how mature his
> reaction might be).
> In response to your question above:
> Mature response to car accident: "Wow, what just happened, I hope
> everybody is all right."
> Immature response to car accident: "Dude did you see that guy's head
> explode, that was cool"
> Now, apply that to the movies and I'm sure you can see that not everybody
> will view sensitive matter in the same way.
My contention really stems from Al's phrase that
'Art should show the human condition in all its ecstasy and agony. I
firmly believe this. '
Why SHOULD art show the human condition at all, much less speak of
agony or ecstasy? There are whole forms of art, like architecture,
which deal with nothing of the sort. Architecture relies solely on
formal exercises of proportion, light and shadow to delight the visual
senses, thereby inducing visual appreciation. Many times, this is
considered art, as in such masterworks as Jacopo Sansovino's Marciana
library in Venice.
Also, there is quite a leap from saying that art should 'show the
human condition' and going on to say this ' Maybe some of you are not
mature enough to deal with graphic rape in movies.'
Is it ever necessary for 'art' to show anything that is graphic? Or
graphic and violent? Or graphic rape? And just because one can sit
impassively in such a scene of movie makes him/her mature?
Frankly, I don't think that is the case at all. Art speaks of
celebrating something positive about the human condition, of
vanquishing the horrors of human life. Even in such visceral moments
as, say, King Lear getting his eyes gouged out, Shakespeare's intent
is not to DWELL on the violence, but to show Lear's reaction to it
(and the perpetrator's objective, etc.) It is also possible to 'show'
rape in a variety of ways without ever having to get 'graphic', and
there are ways of exploring the subject of women overcoming such a
travesty without ever having to show the actual act at all.
Recently, I saw Babyface (1933) where Barbara Stanwyck sleeps her way
to the top of an bank conglomerate. The act of sex is never shown, but
it's one of the merits of the film that it's able to express this
point without ever having to resort to sordid details.
I cannot think of any constructive situation where graphic scenes of
any sort are warranted, (rape, death, etc.) particularly in a form of
entertainment, which only SOMETIMES becomes art. I've been watching a
lot of old movies on TCM, and I've come to realize that a lot of the
older flicks (particularly those in the 1920s through 1940s- before
Hollywood production codes forced excessive and unnecessary changes to
storylines) which are equally, if not much better than the films of
today. Those old films also spoke of the human condition, and many
times much more effectively, without ever having to resort to
'graphicness', or excessive special effects or other contrivances.
Such graphicness, particularly where violence is concerned, would
normally be considered completely gratuitous, because the point is the
story of the characters, not the actual act. If you want to see the
act, then make a documentary.
Or, go back in time to watch what the Romans did in their arenas...
And then tell me if those who watch it and revel in it are really
'mature'.
Marcello
Richard
I thought you said you killed-filed me?
I don't doubt rape is traumatizing and in
some cases "life-altering" but other crimes
against persons can do the same. Just ask the Yuppies putting
in "panic rooms."
-Rich
4dtvman
> On Tue, 09 Apr 2002 05:00:53 GMT, Luis Carruthers <B...@lick.it> wrote:
>
> >Al Lal wrote:
> >
> >I love you, Al Lal- for trying, anyway. I just love that phrasing. "the
> >best female rape scene". Not the most brutal, not the most graphic, not
> >the most outrageous, most horrible, or most disturbing. No, no, no. Of
> >course none of those. Those may have gotten you cooperative responses.
> >You had to go for the positive superlative. Oh, how I love the positive
> >superlative. It's so daring. Although, I have to give you credit for
> >specifying "female" in the header.
>
>
> Probably because best male rape scene would be no contest. Think
> "medieval".
No. It's probably because all male rape scenes have to involve at
least one fag. Yuck !!!!
Richard
wrote:
And home invasions aren't about robbery. Despite being conditioning
by 1960's and later psycho-babble do you think it's possible rape is
about sex AND force/subjugation?
-Rich
Richard
wrote:
Who said they wanted just sex? People out there (term used casually)
also participate in bondage and domination, child abuse, etc. It all
stems from a warped sense of sexuality. Do what Dirty Harry
suggested in "Dirty Harry;"
"Throw a net over all of them."
-Rich
Richard
Depends on how severe the beating. Believe it or not,
it isn't like the movies where a guy takes six or seven
hits to the face without any blood.
-Rich
eart...@enchantedplanet.com
Rape *fantasies*, acted out among consenting adults, like homosexuality, S&M,
and other varients, are a matter of personal choice and inclination. But sex
with children is sick. The rape of children the sickest of the sick.
It's about consent. And children, by definition, can't *give* their consent.
Cora
Richard
>On Wed, 10 Apr 2002 11:57:56 GMT, Giftzwerg
><gift...@NOSPAMZ.dwp.net> deposited this nugget in this
>here newsgroup
>>>In article <4c3ac3f0.02040...@posting.google.com>,
>>>kilro...@catlover.com says...
>>>
>>>> Casualties of War. Repeated rape of a Vietnamese woman by the
>>>> soldiers, with exception of moralistic Michael J Fox character. The
>>>> effects was the same as you had described: ugly, brutal, disturbing.
>>>
>>>Well, subsequently they do *murder* her, don't they?
>>>
>>>I find this a fascinating point; it's almost as though some people
>>>consider rape *worse* than murder.
>
>Good point. I think the reasoning behind it has to do with
>surviving the crime. Murder, after all, does not entail the
>humiliation, per se, of the victim. The victim is dead and
>unable to feel any further humliation or abuse. Nor does
>the victim have to "live with the memories."
God am I glad some of you don't make laws.
-Rich
4dtvman
> >> > terry king <prea...@mit.N0SP4M.edu> wrote in message
> news:<090420021039548450%prea...@mit.N0SP4M.edu>...
> >> > >
> >> > > Rather than spanking your readers for drawing not-unreasonable
> >> > > conclusions from a carelessly crafted post, you might consider drafting
> >> > > future queries in such a way that they do not smack of teenage hormones
> >> > > seeking material to spark a good wank. There's less fuss, and you might
> >> > > get a greater number of useful replies.
> >> >
> >> > Terry, to you and all the others who have been so critical of Al, I
> >> > must say that your political correctness is showing.
> >>
> >> Nothing to do with political correctness.
> >
> >Perhaps I was overreaching to say that all criticism of Al was due to
> >political correctness, but I still maintain that the majority of it
> >is.
>
> It is nonsense. AI was slow and boring. I really can't even tell
> whether one would claim that politically correct people are supposed
> to have disliked it, or people who were reacting AGAINST political
> correctness are supposed to have disliked it.
>
> pretty much negligible. Witness Lion King.
I was talking about Al (the guy who started this thread), no the movie
"AI".
>
>
> >> If he'd asked about this in olden
> >> times of no "political correctness", it's possible he might have gotten an
> >> even worse response than the one he got now.
> >
> >I don't know what world you come from, but the times of no "political
> >correctness" were LESS sensitive to movie depictions of violence
> >against women, gays, minorities, etc. If you don't believe this, then
> >go back and look at some of the movies from the 1970's and you'll see
> >things that are totally unacceptable in movies of today.
>
> Rape, murder, mutilation, violence against women, etc. were much less
> common in movies made in the "old days". Sure you might see a guy
> slap his wife in an old movie without the National Guard being
> called, but I don't think you would have seen more sympathy for
> wife-beating or rape.
True, if you're talking pre-1970. However, there was alot of this
stuff in movies from 1970 until the early 1990's when political
correctness started to take root.
eart...@enchantedplanet.com
I think that being forced to submit to that kind of rape...WOULD...kill me. The
me* inside of me.
Cora
4dtvman
> "4dtvman" <tmitch...@att.net> wrote in message
> news:95f90cc2.02041...@posting.google.com...
> > "Aris Katsaris" <kats...@otenet.gr> wrote in message
> news:<a8vt1n$buv$1...@usenet.otenet.gr>...
> > >
> > > > This
> > > > politically correct society of ours just continues to amaze me. People
> > > > think all kinds of deviant behavior like homosexuality, bi-sexuality,
> > > > transexuality, cross-dressing, etc. are just fine, but certain types
> > > > of heterosexual fantasies and fetishes are comepletely intolerable.
> > >
> > > Has nothing to do with whether the fantasies are heterosexual or not.
> >
> > You missed my point. What I was trying to say is that when people
> > condone stuff like homosexuality, bi-sexuality, trans-gendering, and
> > cross dressing and then at the same time condemn some forms of
> > heterosexual fantasies and fetishes, it smacks of hypocrisy.
>
> In what way does it smack of hypocricy to condone some stuff and not
> condone some *different* stuff?
>
> Hypocricy has to do with condoning some stuff when *you* do them, and
> not condoning them when others do the *same* stuff.
Okay, then if it's not hypocrisy, that what do you call it when
someone sceams about something being so horrible (violent heterosexual
fantasies) but then winks at something that is even worse
(homosexuality)? Would inconsistent or out of balance priorities be a
better way to describe it?
>
> > In my
> > opinion, even the mildest form of the deviant behaviors I listed above
> > are way more sickening than ANY heterosexual fantasy or fetish could
> > possibly be.
>
> So, according to this, fantasies involving the (heterosexual) rape of children
> are way less sickening than fantasies involving two consenting adults of the
> same gender.
You obviously did not read my complete posting or either you
misunderstood it. I said that anyone who has fantasies about children
is not a heterosexual, but it either a pedophile or some other type of
pervert. Got it now or should I repeat it at a 3rd grade level?
>
> Okay, I could go on to say that you are an idiot, but that wouldn't really
> be helpful in our debate.
I could say the same about you, but I'll practice some restraint.
> I'll ask you instead in what way does your (IMO
> stupid and offensive) opinion has to do with whether people who
> DON'T share said opinion are hypocrites or not?
I think I cleared that up in my comments above. I'll just say that
those people have inconsistent or out of balance priorities. An
anology would be a person who worries himself to death about being
cheated out of $5 but then allows someone to cheat him out of $1000
without giving it a second thought.
>
> > All forms of heterosexuality trump all forms of
> > homosexuality, in my opinion, as long as no one is really getting
> > hurt.
>
> As long as no one is getting hurt, it's nobody's business what different
> people enjoy.
Bingo !!!! You just hit the jackpot !!!! I was waiting for you to
say that. If Al or anyone else wants to enjoy famale rape scenes
and/or have rape fantasies and he doesn't act on them (so that no one
is getting hurt), then "it's nobody's business what different people
enjoy".
> The thing about rape fantasies of course is that in them somebody *is*
> getting hurt.
They do? Please, pray tell, how?
I'm totally amazed at how you and some others posting in this thread
seem to have an inability to distinguish fantasy from reality.
Generally children, not adults, have this problem. I guess that's why
so many people in this thread arguing the merits of real rape. That's
not the issue here. Of course it's bad. Who, other than a rapist,
would argue that it isn't? Permit me to provide a short lesson that I
learned as a pre-schooler:
movies = play acting = not real = no one really getting killed or
hurt.
fantansies = in one's mind only = does not exist in physical world =
no one really getting killed or hurt.
real world = real beatings, rapings, and killings = many people
getting killed and hurt.
> Telling someone you fantacize about hurting them isn't
> likely to make you many friends.
Now, that's one of the silliest things you've said in this entire
discussion. Who's going to tell someone they are having rape fantasies
about them unless the person they are fantasizing about is into that
kind of stuff, too? Anyone who would tell someone this for any other
reason is indeed trying to hurt them.
>
> > Of course, today's politically correct society doesn't see it
> > that way.
>
> Has nothing to do with political correctness. Has to do with different
> beliefs about what is moral and what isn't.
>
> Rape: Immoral.
> Homosexuality: Not immoral.
Again, the immorality of real rape is a given here (read my reality
lesson above as many times as you need to). The morality of fantasy
rape or enjoying movie rape scenes is arguable, but the morality of
homosexuality equally arguable. I just happen to see homosexuality as
the more immoral of the two.
As far as political correctness is concerned, let me approach this
from a different angle. In the 1970's, there were about an equal
number of movies depicting men and women being abused. However, while
there are approximately the same amount of movies being made now, as
in the 1970's, which depict male abuse, films depicting female abuse
have almost disappeared. Don't you think this fact reflects the heavy
influence of political correctnesse being pushed by the feminist
lobby?
If you still can't buy the political correctness angle, then here's
something else to consider. Like someone else pointed out in an
earlier posting, many people openly express their enjoyment of movie
and TV portrayals of men being raped. They snicker, laugh, make jokes,
and gleefully repeat tag lines like "squeal like a pig". Also, I've
seen many threads on USENET in which women and gays graphically
discuss their "favorite" male rape scenes from movies like
"Deliverance" and TV shows like HBO's "Oz". In these threads, I don't
recall seeing any protest whatsoever. However, just let some guy like
Al even insinuate that he might enjoy viewing female rape scenes, and
an uproar like
the one in this thread will ensue. The jokes, laughing, and tag lines
mysteriously disappear and are replaced with words like like
"disturbing", "bad", and "horrifying". If this is not political
correctness, then it is at least a double standard and a manifestation
of the conventional foolishness that our culture embraces.
>
> > You
> > would be surprised to know that many people who are very gentle and
> > would never hurt anyone have sexual fantasies involving violence,
> > sadism, and/or rape. Haven't you ever heard of people playing S&M
> > games where violence is simulated as a form of eroticism?
>
> Of course I have. I won't comment on how *healthy* I find these things,
> but neither will I call them immoral.
And you think homosexuals, bi-sexuals, transvestites, and so-called
trans-gendered people are healthy? Go figure. At least people who
limit their sex lives to these types of sexual fantasies don't spread
AIDS.
>
> > > If he asked the best scenes where a child is tortured to death, explaining
> how
> > > he'd really prefer to see the blood and tears and every wound at its close
> > > brutality and in the end see the child's brains on the floor, he'd probably
> > > have gotten just as bad a response.
> >
> > Same response, maybe, but for a totally different reason. You are
> > comparing apples and oranges. Even during the politically incorrect
> > 1970's that I alluded to above, I can't think of any example of
> > graphic child torture being dipicted in mainstream films. Therefore,
> > the response to this would have nothing to do with political
> > correctness, but rather moral values that our society has always held
> > to.
>
> My point is that it *all* has to do with moral values.
>
> > By the way, anyone who would have fantasies like this is a
> > pedophile or some other deviant. This would definitely NOT be a
> > heterosexual fantasy.
>
> I didn't mentiod the kid being raped, just tortured to death. As for
> what is a "heterosexual" fantasy or not, I don't think you can simply
> exclude what you yourself find wrong from this category.
Are you saying that fantasies about raping a child (as long as the
child is not tortured to death) are okay?
>
> > > Try to think a bit about people's motivations and reasons for reacting
> rather
> > > than accuse everyone you disagree with the so vague accusation of "political
> > > correctness".
> >
> > Well, I hope this posting has made my accusations of "political
> > correctness" a little less vague.
>
> No. You still haven't shown why you think people share this attitude
> because of "political correctness" rather than because their own set
> of morals and values.
Yeah, their own set of morals and values, no matter inconsistent and
out of balance.
>
> > > It's good for the brain to contemplate people's motivations rather
> > > than wave them aside as easily as you did.
> >
> > It sounds like you need to practice what you preach.
>
> In what way I waved aside and tried to guess at people's motivations?
> I never tried to guess at *your* motivations, I'm sure - never blamed
> your attitude on homophobia or religious fanaticism or latent sadomasochistic
> tendencies. Neither did I try to guess at Al's motivations.
You know, you remind me of people who begin a sentence by saying "I
don't mean to be nosey, but...." and then proceed to ask a nosey
question. You say you've never tried to guess at my motivations, but
then list all the possible negative attitudes that they could be
attributed to. You are, in a defacto manner, accusing me of all of
these things. By the way, homophobia is a ridiculous word created the
gay and lesbian lobby (with cooperation from liberals like yourself)
to use as a stick to beat on the heads of people who believe
homosexuality is unhealthy, unnatural, and/or immoral. The word
doesn't even make sense as the "phobia" part implies fear. Using that
logic, I could make up some words, too. Those who don't like
Republicans are Republicanophobic, those who are anti-religion are
religionophobic, those who are not particularly fond of pizza are
pizzaphobic, and so on. If you, however, by homophobic, you REALLY
mean that you think I don't have a very high opinion of homosexuals or
their activities, then I'll plead guilty as charged and wear that
title proudly !!!
>
Marquesas16
is a statistic." >
Wow, this guy is good.
Marquesas16
> would be surprised to know that many people who are very gentle and
> would never hurt anyone have sexual fantasies involving violence,
> sadism, and/or rape. Haven't you ever heard of people playing S&M
> games where violence is simulated as a form of eroticism?
I'll have to agree here
jrob
Marcello Penso wrote:
He didn't say ALL art should contain elements of the human condition.
>
> Also, there is quite a leap from saying that art should 'show the
> human condition' and going on to say this ' Maybe some of you are not
> mature enough to deal with graphic rape in movies.'
>
> Is it ever necessary for 'art' to show anything that is graphic? Or
> graphic and violent? Or graphic rape? And just because one can sit
> impassively in such a scene of movie makes him/her mature?
Necessary? According to who's tastes? According to who's values?
Marcello,
Although your definition of art is very positive and uplifting, it is also very
limited, and extremely personal (subjective). Sorry if I disagree, but it just aint
the same for everybody. Art can be graphic, and disturbing, and still be art. It
can also be very obtuse and seemingly without emotion and still be art. Look at
Guernica (Picasso), look at Campbell's Soup Cans (Warhol), surely you don't assert
that art can only be found when the message is one that evokes joy. I understand
your point about films in the past, (less is more), but you can't dismiss new methods
or limits solely on personal taste.
To stay on point with the thread, the graphic incest rape in "The War Zone" can
be handled either immaturely or maturely. It's up to the viewer. You really don't
need it spelled out for you again to see what I'm saying. It's obvious mature people
take what they see and use the information as a means of figuring things out and
enhancing themselves. Immature people don't use what they see to enhance themselves
at all. Their lack of maturity is what keeps them from growing both intellectually
and emotionally. (I know 60 year old emotional cripples, and 13 year olds that would
blow you away with their insight and sensitivity) You'd do yourself a real service
if you expanded your definitions and broadened your scope of view. If you're mature
enough you can handle it, and you will surely grow from the experience.
It's all good, because it *is*.