"The Sweet Hereafter"
Chris Humpherys
mark palermo
with me emotionally like Exotica did.
Chris Humpherys wrote in message <9422vg$1o08$1...@news.gate.net>...
Jim S.
> Does anyone else think that this movie is overrated?
A tad bit.
Jim S.
tricks...@my-deja.com
Sent via Deja.com
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mo...@my-deja.com
>
>
nope, i love it.
Azat
tricks...@my-deja.com wrote:
> In article <9422vg$1o08$1...@news.gate.net>,
> "Chris Humpherys" <irt...@gate.net> wrote:
> > Does anyone else think that this movie is overrated?
> >
> Yes!
No!
>
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/
>
--
I see dead movies
mo...@my-deja.com
>
>
nope, i love it.
peace out
mosc
SDM
> Does anyone else think that this movie is overrated?
>
I dunno, PG-13 would've been a stretch with all the incest material...
damnfine
> Does anyone else think that this movie is overrated?
Nope, it's a perfect film.
--
Damnfine,
"Did it talk? The little fetus, did it talk?"
SLB
slb
Chris Humpherys <irt...@gate.net> wrote in message
news:9422vg$1o08$1...@news.gate.net...
Lorne
> Does anyone else think that this movie is overrated?
Not at all. How anyone could even suggest such a thing considering the
two films that took home all of the Oscars that year is ridiculous.
-----
Lorne
Last three movies seen, rated out of four:
Snatch. (**)
Save the Last Dance (*1/2)
Antitrust (*1/2)
* To reply, remove the second "o" (between the "d" and "g").
Kevin FilmNutBoy
>Actually, I do a little. I like Egoyan, but Sweet Hereafter didn't connect
>with me emotionally like Exotica did.
Exotica connected emotionally with someone? Wow. I also like Egoyan, but I
didn't realize he connected emotionally with anyone. Very cold & clinical.
Like a Cronenberg. Is it a Canadian thing?
--Kevin
"Well first of all, what I think is the main flaw of that argument as far as I
can see is basically just that it is a big load of horseshit." --Vern
Marc Fleury
> Does anyone else think that this movie is overrated?
Yeah. It's not quite in the "Crock-of-shit-that-everyone-was
-suckered-into-thinking-is-actually-great" category, but definitely
overrated.
(The top 2 entries in that category, by the way, are The English
Patient and Heat.)
--
Marc.
superdamonal speed
mark palermo wrote:
>
> Actually, I do a little. I like Egoyan, but Sweet Hereafter didn't connect
> with me emotionally like Exotica did.
the exactr opposite for me.
exotica was very...spread out.
sh really hit a chord with me.
> Chris Humpherys wrote in message <9422vg$1o08$1...@news.gate.net>...
> > Does anyone else think that this movie is overrated?
> >
> >
--
George W. Bush, who is supposedly a uniter, not a divider, has
nominated one of the most divisive candidates possible for
Attorney General.
superdamonal speed
Kevin FilmNutBoy wrote:
>
> "mark palermo" mpal...@istar.ca wrote:
>
> >Actually, I do a little. I like Egoyan, but Sweet Hereafter didn't connect
> >with me emotionally like Exotica did.
>
> Exotica connected emotionally with someone? Wow. I also like Egoyan, but I
> didn't realize he connected emotionally with anyone. Very cold & clinical.
>
> Like a Cronenberg. Is it a Canadian thing?
>
no.
you ARE bnuts, after all.
egoyan uses distance and space a lot, both physicall and timewise.
this can be distancing.
but, like classical music, he uses thisspace to gradually build
up to extremelypowerful moments.
the girl's decision in sh is one of them.
superdamonal speed
sigh.
marc.
marc, marc marc.
heatr was spectacualr.
not as good as sweethereafter, tho.
steve
terms of style, I didn't like what I considered excessive use of music, and
I found the pace lethargic. Is it "overrated"? I don't know, who rated it
and what was the rating? I'll rate it as poor.
steve
--
"It aint me, man, it's the system."
Charles Manson
steve
On 17-Jan-2001, superdamonal speed <dcru...@mdo.net> wrote:
> marc, marc marc.
>
> heatr was spectacualr.
> not as good as sweethereafter, tho.
I agree with marc,marc,marc. Heat is contrived well beyond realism and an
insult to the viewers intelligence. The circumstances which lead to the
face to face meeting are as absurd as the meeeting itself (what is it
supposed to accomplish?). Finally, Pacino himself is, IMHO, the most
overrated actor in hollywood.
Marc Fleury
>Marc Fleury wrote:
>> Yeah. It's not quite in the "Crock-of-shit-that-everyone-was
>> -suckered-into-thinking-is-actually-great" category, but definitely
>> overrated.
>>
>> (The top 2 entries in that category, by the way, are The English
>> Patient and Heat.)
>sigh.
>marc.
>
>marc, marc marc.
>
>heatr was spectacualr.
>not as good as sweethereafter, tho.
Sigh.
Damon.
Damon, Damon, Damon.
No.
-
Marc.
Lon Ponschock
>mark palermo wrote:
>>
>> Actually, I do a little. I like Egoyan, but Sweet Hereafter didn't connect
>> with me emotionally like Exotica did.
>the exactr opposite for me.
>exotica was very...spread out.
>sh really hit a chord with me.
Well, I liked both of them a lot and have seen both
more than once as well.
lon
>> Chris Humpherys wrote in message <9422vg$1o08$1...@news.gate.net>...
>> > Does anyone else think that this movie is overrated?
>> >
>> >
>--
>George W. Bush, who is supposedly a uniter, not a divider, has
>nominated one of the most divisive candidates possible for
>Attorney General.
--
superdamonal speed
steve wrote:
>
> On 17-Jan-2001, superdamonal speed <dcru...@mdo.net> wrote:
>
> > marc, marc marc.
> >
> > heatr was spectacualr.
> > not as good as sweethereafter, tho.
>
> I agree with marc,marc,marc.
good for you!
Heat is contrived well beyond realism and an
> insult to the viewers intelligence. The circumstances which lead to the
> face to face meeting are as absurd as the meeeting itself (what is it
> supposed to accomplish?).
nothing.
Finally, Pacino himself is, IMHO, the most
> overrated actor in hollywood.
>
> steve
> --
> "It aint me, man, it's the system."
> Charles Manson
--
superdamonal speed
sigh.
marc, marc, marc, marc, macr.
yes.
Kevin FilmNutBoy
"steve" st...@steve.com wrote:
>I agree with marc,marc,marc. Heat is contrived well beyond realism and an
>insult to the viewers intelligence. The circumstances which lead to the
>face to face meeting are as absurd as the meeeting itself (what is it
>supposed to accomplish?).
The problem with your analysis is that:
a) realism is a style not all films subscribe to
b) Mann is more of a formalist than a realist
There are certain things in Michael Mann films that exist only for aesthetic
reasons, and are anti-realism. My favorite example is in "Last of the
Mohicans": At the climactic moment when the bad guy is killed, the two
combatants strike a pose and hold it for a few seconds. The only reason they
do it is because it's dramatic and just looks cool.
If you think the scene doesn't work or is too contrived, that's one thing, but
evaluating Mann based on "realism" is like saying "Se7en" sucks because there
isn't enough dancing.
>Finally, Pacino himself is, IMHO, the most
>overrated actor in hollywood.
Say that around my girlfriend at your own risk.
Kevin FilmNutBoy
>Kevin FilmNutBoy wrote:
>>
>> "mark palermo" mpal...@istar.ca wrote:
>>
>> >Actually, I do a little. I like Egoyan, but Sweet Hereafter didn't connect
>> >with me emotionally like Exotica did.
>> Exotica connected emotionally with someone? Wow. I also like Egoyan, but
>I
>> didn't realize he connected emotionally with anyone. Very cold & clinical.
>>
>> Like a Cronenberg. Is it a Canadian thing?
>>
>no.
>you ARE bnuts, after all.
>
>egoyan uses distance and space a lot, both physicall and timewise.
>this can be distancing.
>
>but, like classical music, he uses thisspace to gradually build
>up to extremelypowerful moments.
>
>the girl's decision in sh is one of them.
The classical music thing is an interesting analogy. I agree that the moments
are powerful, but it's still not about raw emotion -- Egoyan (and Cronenberg)
hits you on another, slightly removed plane. Like classical music (to me, at
least). And unlike films that hit you in the gut like rock and roll.
--Kevin FilmNutBoy, who is indeed bnuts
steve
On 18-Jan-2001, filmn...@aol.com.crap (Kevin FilmNutBoy) wrote:
> >I agree with marc,marc,marc. Heat is contrived well beyond realism and
> >an
> >insult to the viewers intelligence. The circumstances which lead to the
> >face to face meeting are as absurd as the meeeting itself (what is it
> >supposed to accomplish?).
>
> The problem with your analysis is that:
> a) realism is a style not all films subscribe to
Hi FNB.
Perehaps I should say "isn't realistic" or "isnt believable", because at
least one problem I had with that film is that I found no ones actions or
motivations to be believable. I guess your point is that some films may
choose to be surreal (like "After Hours", which is a great surreal comedy),
or others may attempt to convey elements of real life without stark realism.
If that is your point, I certainly agree. But "Heat" is a crime drama that
proports to tell a realistic story and does so quite poorly (unless I'm
missing something). I think I am evaluating the film in the proper context,
and in that context I think it fails.
Since we're still on Heat, another criticism I have is that the
relationships and characters in the film seem under developed. His
daughter, for example, has a major part in that she kills herself, yet her
character is never developed to the point where it is (again) believable or
even to where we might give a shit about her. Once again, it seems
contrived rather than well structured. The film would have been stronger
without that distraction. I even wonder if NP was written into the film
simply because she was a hot property at the time.
> b) Mann is more of a formalist than a realist
Now your talking over my head. Must be terms from film school.
"Formalist"?
> There are certain things in Michael Mann films that exist only for
> aesthetic
> reasons, and are anti-realism. My favorite example is in "Last of the
> Mohicans": At the climactic moment when the bad guy is killed, the two
> combatants strike a pose and hold it for a few seconds. The only reason
> they
> do it is because it's dramatic and just looks cool.
I can handle that, if done well.
> If you think the scene doesn't work or is too contrived, that's one thing,
> but
> evaluating Mann based on "realism" is like saying "Se7en" sucks because
> there
> isn't enough dancing.
But I love dancing.
I guess I used the wrong term. Do you understand my criticism from my
clarification above? Do you disagree?
> >Finally, Pacino himself is, IMHO, the most
> >overrated actor in hollywood.
>
> Say that around my girlfriend at your own risk.
I never fight with a lady, especially when her boyfriend is around.
I find AP has a tendency to play everything over the top. In heat, his
dramatic speeches seemed to come not from any real character or motivation,
but from the simple desire to strut his stuff on film. There certainly
didnt seem to be any consistent character development. I'd say he is the
polar opposite of John Malkovitch, who (with the exception of Lenny in "Mice
and Men") plays every part in perpetual understatement.
Kevin FilmNutBoy
>filmn...@aol.com.crap (Kevin FilmNutBoy) wrote:
>> >I agree with marc,marc,marc. Heat is contrived well beyond realism and
>> >an
>> >insult to the viewers intelligence. The circumstances which lead to the
>> >face to face meeting are as absurd as the meeeting itself (what is it
>> >supposed to accomplish?).
>>
>> The problem with your analysis is that:
>> a) realism is a style not all films subscribe to
>Hi FNB.
>Perehaps I should say "isn't realistic" or "isnt believable", because at
>least one problem I had with that film is that I found no ones actions or
>motivations to be believable. I guess your point is that some films may
>choose to be surreal (like "After Hours", which is a great surreal comedy),
>or others may attempt to convey elements of real life without stark realism.
> If that is your point, I certainly agree. But "Heat" is a crime drama that
>proports to tell a realistic story and does so quite poorly (unless I'm
>missing something). I think I am evaluating the film in the proper context,
>and in that context I think it fails.
I wouldn't say the film is surreal, but it's highly stylized and not striving
for realism. (More below.)
>Since we're still on Heat, another criticism I have is that the
>relationships and characters in the film seem under developed. His
>daughter, for example, has a major part in that she kills herself, yet her
>character is never developed to the point where it is (again) believable or
>even to where we might give a shit about her. Once again, it seems
>contrived rather than well structured. The film would have been stronger
>without that distraction. I even wonder if NP was written into the film
>simply because she was a hot property at the time.
I doubt that, but I thought the step daughter subplot was nicely done. She's
not a main character. The main characters all have supporting characters that
briefly illustrate their domestic lives that are in opposition to their
professional ones. It's one of Mann's favorite devices.
>> b) Mann is more of a formalist than a realist
>
>Now your talking over my head. Must be terms from film school.
>"Formalist"?
One of those fifty-cent fancy words that is occassionally useful in talking
about films.
"Formalism: A style of filmmaking in which aesthetic forms take precedence over
the subject matter as content."
In other words, in a formalist film, what looks cool is sometimes more
important than what is logical or realistic or whatever. "Heat" (or Pulp
Fiction or Seven or Usual Suspects etc.) fall into that category.
>> There are certain things in Michael Mann films that exist only for
>> aesthetic
>> reasons, and are anti-realism. My favorite example is in "Last of the
>> Mohicans": At the climactic moment when the bad guy is killed, the two
>> combatants strike a pose and hold it for a few seconds. The only reason
>> they
>> do it is because it's dramatic and just looks cool.
>
>I can handle that, if done well.
Another one comes to mind: in Mann films, characters generally wear better
clothes (usually Armani) than they could realistically afford. Style baby!
>> If you think the scene doesn't work or is too contrived, that's one thing,
>> but
>> evaluating Mann based on "realism" is like saying "Se7en" sucks because
>> there
>> isn't enough dancing.
>
>But I love dancing.
>
>I guess I used the wrong term. Do you understand my criticism from my
>clarification above? Do you disagree?
I understand. You say the scene in question doesn't work because it's too
contrived. I like the scene even though I know things like that don't happen
in the real world.
>> >Finally, Pacino himself is, IMHO, the most
>> >overrated actor in hollywood.
>> Say that around my girlfriend at your own risk.
>
>I never fight with a lady, especially when her boyfriend is around.
>I find AP has a tendency to play everything over the top. In heat, his
>dramatic speeches seemed to come not from any real character or motivation,
>but from the simple desire to strut his stuff on film. There certainly
>didnt seem to be any consistent character development. I'd say he is the
>polar opposite of John Malkovitch, who (with the exception of Lenny in "Mice
>and Men") plays every part in perpetual understatement.
I agree that Al has been too over the top in recent years. He's slightly over
the top in Heat, way over in Godfather 3, and absurdly over in that awful movie
where he played the blind guy. But he was excellent in Looking for Richard and
superb in The Insider.
Marc Fleury
>Marc Fleury wrote:
>> superdamonal speed <dcru...@mdo.net> wrote:
>> >heatr was spectacualr.
>> No.
>yes.
Bah, what do you know. You don't even like NYPD Blue.
--
Marc.
16 Brandonpower
wrote:
> superdamonal speed <dcru...@mdo.net> wrote:
>
> >Marc Fleury wrote:
>
> >> superdamonal speed <dcru...@mdo.net> wrote:
> >> >heatr was spectacualr.
>
> >> No.
>
> >yes.
>
> Bah, what do you know. You don't even like NYPD Blue.
NYPD Blue pales in comparsion to Homicide. But it's still an ok show.
--
Brandon Blatcher
Spamblocked, remove fingers for email
steve
> One of those fifty-cent fancy words that is occassionally useful in
> talking
> about films.
>
> "Formalism: A style of filmmaking in which aesthetic forms take precedence
> over
> the subject matter as content."
>
> In other words, in a formalist film, what looks cool is sometimes more
> important than what is logical or realistic or whatever. "Heat" (or Pulp
> Fiction or Seven or Usual Suspects etc.) fall into that category.
Didnt see the last two, but I think there is a key difference between "Heat"
and "Pulp Fiction" in that regard. Although there are several scenes in PF
where we are basically asked to suspend some disbelief (as in a rather
amazing string of coincidences), I didn't once find myself questioning the
authenticity of a characters motivations or reactions. Because the
characters actually have a "character", I could follow and experience the
action immersed in the film without being thrown back into the real world
where I say to myself "why the fuck would that happen? No way." Of course
I realize that not all films are built upon belief, and perhaps "Heat" is
intended to be in that category. But, somehow, I never got the sense that
this film was like that and it never worked for me on that level. I felt
that I was expected to buy into the realistic nature of the action, but
simply couldn't.
> Another one comes to mind: in Mann films, characters generally wear better
> clothes (usually Armani) than they could realistically afford. Style
> baby!
Or how about a NYC waitress with a $4000/month apartment.
> I agree that Al has been too over the top in recent years. He's slightly
> over
> the top in Heat, way over in Godfather 3, and absurdly over in that awful
> movie
> where he played the blind guy. But he was excellent in Looking for
> Richard and
> superb in The Insider.
I did see "Richard", and agree. Perhaps he just doesn't take all his roles
seriously. I'm sure it's easier to show up and strut than to study the
character and make a real attempt.