Phantom Menace is better than LotR movie
Tavington
to say that I did find it to be a bit disappointing.
Don't get me wrong -- it was an adequate movie and all, the special effects
were generally good, the acting fair to average, and the story, well, we all
know that... But as far as being a "jumpstart" movie to get modern
producers thinking seriously about fantasy films, I found it to be a bit of
a disappointment when compared to The Phantom Menace.
I know that this may not be a popular opinion amongst Tolkien grognards, but
the fact is that The Phantom Menace was a superior piece of filmcraft in
almost every regard. I think the future will bear me out on this one.
Consider -- Tolkien's work itself was never written for the masses. The
script of The Phantom Menace is masterfully written to be accessible to all
walks of humanity. Meanwhile, Tolkien's story is reserved for the ivory
towers of an arrogant minority of English teachers and Anglophiles.
Speaking of Anglophiles, it is clear that the LotR movie is inherently
racist, while The Phantom Menace is certainly not. Tolkien himself was an
admitted racist, as evidenced by the completely caucasian ethnicity of his
characters (with the possible exception of the orcs and goblins, and we all
know what races of humanity THEY are intended to represent -- degenerate,
fecund, barbaric, and stupid -- pretty thin veil, Mr. Tolkien). Sure, LotR
has Dwarves, Elves, and Hobbits, but they are all White. The Phantom Menace
boldly broke racial barriers by having a black officer in Captain Panaka, as
well as the lovable and masterfully played Jar Jar Binks (courtesy of Ahmed
Best). Meanwhile LotR has Galadriel actually *TURNING* *INTO* *A* *BLACK*
*WOMAN* when she is tempted by the Ring -- but only for a moment, then she
"recovers" her Whiteness when she overcomes her base emotions. If I were a
Black woman watching this movie I would be highly offended!
As far as characters are concerned, the thing about LotR that really jumped
out at me was how inefficient and one-sided the characters really were. For
example, it took LotR over THREE characters -- Samwise, Merry, Pippin, and
at times Boromir -- to portray mere facets of what was masterfully
interwoven in The Phantom Menace as the character of Jar Jar Binks. Samwise
is the loyal sidekick of the main hero, while Merry and Pippin are there
mainly for comic relief. Jar Jar Binks did all of this, and he did it
better! His loyalty was greater than that of Samwise, yet he was much more
willing to express his autonomy and disagree with others -- and his comic
relief bits were more overblown and frankly funnier to a modern audience.
Of course, his redemption from his flaws -- his heroic battle against the
Battle Droids after overcoming his cowardice -- is ultimately more
powerfully moving than the death of Boromir, due to the audience's greater
identification with him. I cried tears of joy when Jar Jar Binks received
the rank of Brigadier General -- I shed nary a tear for Boromir, who was
really an evil person and would have killed Frodo for the ring if he'd had
the chance. This sort of glorification of the antihero in our movies is
what is ruining the fabric of our society today.
The Phantom Menace has it over LotR when it comes to actors, as well. LotR
actors consist mainly of has-been actors and never-was actors; in fact, the
only actor I remembered in LotR was that puffing guy who played Indiana
Jones' sidekick (what was his name?) as the Dwarf, Legolas. And even then
they made him up so much that he was impossible to recognize. Meanwhile The
Phantom Menace has JAKE LLOYD doing a masterful performance as an intensely
young and ambitious Anakin Skywalker -- the intense confidence in his eyes
as he courageously fights in space against the Trade Federation is far more
inspiring than Gandalf's battle against the Balrog. In LotR we never even
SEE Sauron except as some flaming vagina in the sky (an obvious Freudian
slip on the part of the director) while we witness the Machiavellian tactics
of Senator Palpatine firsthand.
As for special effects, they were -- OK -- in the LotR movie. Some have
already mentioned the "Gimli the Elf on the Rock Troll's Back" example of
LotR's CGI blundering. However a simple comparision of, say, the Battle
Droids in the Phantom Menace, leaves one wondering how it is that LotR
(which was made years AFTER The Phantom Menace) could have been so far
behind in the FX department. The Phantom Menace's Battle Droids were truly
fearsome and computer-generated -- while LotR orcs looked more like humans
in bad make-up with funny teeth. Meanwhile the much-vaunted "Rock Troll"
looked like someone had stolen some files from the Harry Potter movie's FX
CGI computer. The creeching "ring-wraiths" looked like men in black sheets,
stage blood on their horse's hooves notwithstanding. And speaking of
horses, that ridiculous scene with the horses rising up out of the river at
Ariel the Elf's "prayer" really broke my suspension of disbelief -- fair CGI
it may have been, and a fantasy movie LotR may profess to be, but some
things are so over the top that they break one's immersion in the film.
Meanwhile, The Phantom Menace contains the famous "Two Headed Announcer" in
the Pod Race, which was just long enough to whet our apetites for more
skillful FX mastery (an astute decision on the part of the director). Never
mind the big things -- an entire brigade of fearsome Battle Droids where
LotR contained only one dragon, which wasn't even supposed to be real but a
fireworks illusion (nice copout on the part of the director, who SHOULD have
been showing us at least ONE image of Smaug during the intro) -- it was the
multitude of LITTLE things that impressed the audiences of The Phantom
Menace. The antics of the "Two Headed Announcer" were hilarious and
completely appropriate in the context of the movie, for example, and that
was something that audiences took home with them. When Jar Jar Binks steps
on a piece of doo doo, it was one of the most memorable scenes in the
history of film. When Darth Maul is killed, Obi Wan Kenobi looked far more
skillful than anything that Aragon ever did in LotR. The Phantom Menace has
brilliant lazer effects -- none of this "telekinesis" crap which the LotR
movie expects audiences to not notice are being used as an excuse to not
have to put in rays, lightning, and other effects. How cheap could the
director get?
Well, the list goes on and on, but in the end I think it can be best summed
up but the following: which movie is going to impress the modern audience
more, the 3-hour monstrosity that will have most of the people counting down
the minutes until they can use the toilet, or the fun, action-packed fantasy
romp which includes Jake Lloyd AND the hilarious antics of the lovable Jar
Jar Binks? I rest my case.
Tavington
pied piper
Tavington <tavi...@zsazsabinks.com> wrote in message
news:3c35cff7$1...@news.cybersurf.net...
what rubbish the phantom menace was a rip off of tolkien to start with and
i actually yawned through the majority of it.
it was dissapointing compared to star wars first time around(or maybe it
appealed to me more then as i was much younger)
lord of the rings is a masterpiece and the films and books will long outlast
phantom menace
as for the racist thing why oh why are we inundated with these pathetic
human rights brigade ppl who have to try and label everything why cant ppl
just sit back and enjoy the film rather than criticise all the time
Einion Yrth
>
Please do not feed the troll, thank you!
Aris Katsaris
LOL! Which is why Tolkien is as popular as he is, right?
> Speaking of Anglophiles, it is clear that the LotR movie is inherently
> racist, while The Phantom Menace is certainly not. Tolkien himself was an
> admitted racist,
You are a liar. He explicitely rejected racism. Here are some quotes
from The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien:
**************
p37 to Rutten & Loening Verlag (German publishers) July 1938
"I regret that I am not clear as to what you intend by arisch. I am not of
Aryan extraction: that is Indo-Iranian; as far as I am aware none of my
ancestors spoke Hindustani, Persian, Gypsy, or any related dialects. But if I
am to understand that you are enquiring whether I am of Jewish origin, I can
only reply that I regret that I appear to have no ancestors of that gifted
people."
p37 to Stanley Unwin July 1938
"Do I suffer this impertinence because of the possession of a German name, or
do their lunatic laws require a certificate of "arisch" origin from all
persons of all countries?
Personally I should be inclined to refuse to give any Bestatingung (although
it happens that I can), and let a German translation go hang. In any case I
should object strongly to any such declaration appearing in print. I do not
regard the (probable) absence of all Jewish blood as necessarily honourable.
I have many Jewish friends and I should regret giving any colour to the
notion that I subscribed to the wholly pernicious and unscientific race
doctrine."
*****************
> as evidenced by the completely caucasian ethnicity of his
> characters
Given that he wrote a story located in ancient Northwestern Europe,
duh!
But as it happens there were also the good dark-skinned people
of Bor (some of the Beorings were also "swarthy", btw) and I'd
hardly call the Druedain "Caucasians".
> (with the possible exception of the orcs and goblins, and we all
> know what races of humanity THEY are intended to represent)
They are intended to represent people like you actually.
Orkish minds are aplenty in our world, but they have nothing to
do with racial boundaries. The orkish-minded are alway among us.
> The Phantom Menace
> boldly broke racial barriers by having a black officer in Captain Panaka, as
> well as the lovable and masterfully played Jar Jar Binks (courtesy of Ahmed
> Best).
> Meanwhile LotR has Galadriel actually *TURNING* *INTO* *A* *BLACK*
> *WOMAN*
She turned bluish, ya idiot.
You know, I don't think I care if all your post's supposed to be a joke
or not - its not funny: Stupidity is not funny by itself. But since you like
Jar-jar I don't think you'd understand this.
> In LotR we never even
> SEE Sauron except as some flaming vagina in the sky
Okay, I'm now sure your post is a joke. But I still don't think
it's funny.
> When Jar Jar Binks steps
> on a piece of doo doo, it was one of the most memorable scenes in the
> history of film.
LOL! Okay, *this* bit of your post was indeed funny.
Aris Katsaris
marcus
TPM and LOTR are both fantastic films. Why bitch? After all, they are only
films!
Marcus
"pied piper" <pe...@sportspitches.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:a14jm2$5e9$1...@news6.svr.pol.co.uk...
BrianZ
capital letters HAS to be a joke.
BZ
"Tavington" <tavi...@zsazsabinks.com> wrote in message
news:3c35cff7$1...@news.cybersurf.net...
Kevin Behan
>>racist, while The Phantom Menace is certainly not. Tolkien himself was an
>>admitted racist, as evidenced by the completely caucasian ethnicity of his
>>characters (with the possible exception of the orcs and goblins, and we
all
>>know what races of humanity THEY are intended to represent --
>>degenerate,
>>fecund, barbaric, and stupid -- pretty thin veil, Mr. Tolkien). Sure,
LotR
>>has Dwarves, Elves, and Hobbits, but they are all White. The Phantom
>>Menace
>>boldly broke racial barriers by having a black officer in Captain Panaka,
as
>>well as the lovable and masterfully played Jar Jar Binks (courtesy of
Ahmed
>>Best). Meanwhile LotR has Galadriel actually *TURNING* *INTO* *A*
>>*BLACK*
>>*WOMAN* when she is tempted by the Ring -- but only for a moment, >>then
she
>>"recovers" her Whiteness when she overcomes her base emotions. If I were
>>a
>>Black woman watching this movie I would be highly offended!
Hmm... you're either a comedy genius with a wicked sense or sarcasm or
someone who is so blinded by politcal correctness that you have no sense of
reality...
This obessessive focus on issues of ethncity in the book is something that I
really don't understand...
In the context of the story itself, of course most of the characters are
'white' - this is supposed to be a mythical pre-history of Europe and
England! It would be artificial and jarring to include a token character of
an different ethnic background (something that many films these days are
guilty of).
Also, you are using the value judgements of contemporary (specifially
American) culture in a wholly inappropriate way. Remember that Tolkien was
middle-aged, middle-classed and wrote the book in the 30's, 40's and 50's
over here in England - his and his culture's attitudues to race were utterly
different to your own. It would not even have occurrred to Tolkien to worry
about such things this is before the era of mass immigration into this
country. It was only really from the 50's that the issue of 'race' and
intenal race relations became socially important here...
If you complain that Tolkien is a 'racist' because there are no black, asian
or oriental characters in hos book, then ditto for Charles Dickens, the
Austens, Jayne Eyre, Thomas Hardy - in fact, almost all English writers
from before the war. Wholly preposterous, I don't even know why I am
bothering to reply!
paulh
Marc Sylvestre
"Tavington" <tavi...@zsazsabinks.com> wrote in message
news:3c35cff7$1...@news.cybersurf.net...
> I saw the
Man, that was a great troll. Thanks!
Jouni Karhu
I wouldn't classify that as a troll, actually, rather a clever (too
clever?) piece of satire :)
// JJ
Jay
"Marc Sylvestre" <msylv...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:a14ldm$i9s$1...@slb7.atl.mindspring.net...
lol!
--
----------------------------------------
Won't be known,
'Till I'm gone,
And you study my bones
----------------------------------------
>
Jim Campbell
tavi...@zsazsabinks.com wrote on 4/1/02 3:53 pm:
> I rest my case.
I can't believe how much of this I read before I realized you were taking
the piss ...!
Cheers
Jim
ed
Fri, 4 Jan 2002 08:53:21 -0700:
>I saw the much-hyped "Lord of the Rings" movie on opening night, and I have
>to say that I did find it to be a bit disappointing.
If you are going to Troll, can you not do better than that.
ed
mixed race, mixed religion Tolkien and Star Wars fan
--
edh...@equus.demon.co.uk | Dragons Rescued | _////
http://www.equus.demon.co.uk/ | Maidens Slain | o_/o ///
For devilbunnies, Diplomacy, RPGs, | Quests P.O.A. | __\ ///__
Science-Fiction and other stuff | | <*>
ed
Fri, 4 Jan 2002 08:53:21 -0700:
>I know that this may not be a popular opinion amongst Tolkien grognards, but
>the fact is that The Phantom Menace was a superior piece of filmcraft in
>almost every regard. I think the future will bear me out on this one.
One thing to note. Not even George Lucas is happy with the pacing and
edition on TPM. As evidenced by his saying so outright on the making of
section included with the DVD
ed
RP
> racist, while The Phantom Menace is certainly not.
Fuck off
Zeefor
news:3c35cff7$1...@news.cybersurf.net...
<snip>
Very good, although the retards of usenet (ie 99.9% of usenet) didn't really
get it. BTW, more racist stuff I noticed:
The two kings at the river are obviously doing sieg heil salutes, as does
Galadriel when everyone leaves in their boats. Aragorn and Boromir, people
from the "White City", save the weaker peoples of Middle Earth when they
fight the black barbarian orc-men (who try to pretend that they're equal,
what with the white face paint covering their faces, but deep down they're
still black native barbarians). Peter Jackson orchestrated mainstream racism
when everyone applauds when WHITE Aragorn cuts BLACK Lurtz's head off, yet
covers it all up with the pseudo "all races coming together" scene with the
dwarf, elf and man, and if you listen really carefully when Galadriel bids
farewell to the Fellowship, you can hear a sampled "Sieg Heil" chant.
--
(|||rise|||)=(Z][E][E][F][O][R)=(|||fall|||)
"But were not out to make Christianity cool because how we believe that how
much cooler can you be get than coming on earth as human and dying...that's
pretty hard-core!!!" -Delirious
Zeefor
news:sanb3us51ql13446i...@4ax.com...
> The noble "Tavington" <tavi...@zsazsabinks.com> spake on the day of
> Fri, 4 Jan 2002 08:53:21 -0700:
>
> >I saw the much-hyped "Lord of the Rings" movie on opening night, and I
have
> >to say that I did find it to be a bit disappointing.
>
>
> If you are going to Troll, can you not do better than that.
>
> ed
> mixed race, mixed religion Tolkien and Star Wars fan
Mixed race, mixed religion and really fucking dumb.
Cave Troll
are terrified of not being politically correct. Their entertainment,
the words they utter, the very thoughts inside their heads must
conform to the ivory tower ideals they learned in college and from
the boobs on the tube. The idea of maybe commit thought crime a
real fear. Surely Star War fans aren't that timid, that scared of
thinking for themselves? Surely they can enjoy works of high art
from the past without wanting to burn them in ovens as being not
correct for viewing by 'modern man'?
Aris Katsaris
"Jouni Karhu" <kur...@modeemi.fi> wrote in message
news:3c35db39...@news.cc.tut.fi...
>
> I wouldn't classify that as a troll, actually, rather a clever (too
> clever?) piece of satire :)
"Too subtle" doesn't equal "too clever"... If satire's meant to make
us laugh, then being too subtle doesn't make people laugh, thus
isn't clever... :-)
Aris Katsaris
The Arctic Moose
in a vision...
Yeah, i couldn't agree more...
--
The Arctic Moose
Snootchie Boochie Noochies! - Jay
The Arctic Moose
in a vision...
>
> news:3c35cff7$1...@news.cybersurf.net...
> what rubbish the phantom menace was a rip off of tolkien
How's that then?
> to start with and
> i actually yawned through the majority of it.
nice to know
John E.
"Zeefor" <zee...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:oxlZ7.55377$4x4.7...@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com...
<snip>
HAHAHAHAHA.
*wipes a tear away*
Thanks, I needed that.
-John
Steve Fine
bad Phantom Menace trash. I haven't laughed so hard in weeks. To
praise Jake Lloyd and Jar Jar Binks for their performances is the
height of sarcasm. A discussion of fantasy movies and racism helps
point out how ridiculous it is to use today's political correctness
idiocy on two stories set thousands of years ago. The mention of such
moronic moments as Binks stepping in doo-doo or the existence of the
two-headed announcer desgned strictly for Lucasfilm to sell more toys
reminds once again that Phantom Menace is beyond feeble. I keep trying
to forget that disaster; I am glad that someone provided an additional
way to laugh at it.
Bill Binkelman
> to say that I did find it to be a bit disappointing.
>
> Don't get me wrong -- it was an adequate movie and all, the special effects
> were generally good, the acting fair to average, and the story, well, we all
> know that... But as far as being a "jumpstart" movie to get modern
> producers thinking seriously about fantasy films, I found it to be a bit of
> a disappointment when compared to The Phantom Menace.
>
> I know that this may not be a popular opinion amongst Tolkien grognards, but
> the fact is that The Phantom Menace was a superior piece of filmcraft in
> almost every regard. I think the future will bear me out on this one.
(snip)
> Well, the list goes on and on, but in the end I think it can be best summed
> up but the following: which movie is going to impress the modern audience
> more, the 3-hour monstrosity that will have most of the people counting down
> the minutes until they can use the toilet, or the fun, action-packed fantasy
> romp which includes Jake Lloyd AND the hilarious antics of the lovable Jar
> Jar Binks? I rest my case.
>
> Tavington
Thanks for this (unintentionally, most likely) hilarious analysis.
Yes, TPM is not racist...even though the most idiotic character in the
movie speaks in a pronounced Jamaican patois, the ruthless and wealthy
Trading reps have a Asian/Japanese accent, and the conniving,
underhanded owner of a junk shop sure sounds like he's Greek or
Italian to me (and is named Woppo...oh excuse me, I mean Watto).
Meanwhile, the heroic Jedis all speak the king's English....
HAHAHAHAHAHA...
Bill B
who...@wherever.com
: I saw the much-hyped "Lord of the Rings" movie on opening night, and I have
: to say that I did find it to be a bit disappointing.
Any review which starts off by measuring how hyped the reviewed movie is,
cannot be objective and isn't worth reading.
The Arctic Moose
me in a vision...
> Thanks for this (unintentionally, most likely) hilarious analysis.
>
> Yes, TPM is not racist...even though the most idiotic character in the
> movie speaks in a pronounced Jamaican patois, the ruthless and wealthy
> Trading reps have a Asian/Japanese accent, and the conniving,
> underhanded owner of a junk shop sure sounds like he's Greek or
> Italian to me (and is named Woppo...oh excuse me, I mean Watto).
> Meanwhile, the heroic Jedis all speak the king's English....
No, they don't, Liam Neeson speaks with an Irish accent, Yoda sounds
like Fozzie, for obvious reasons, the only character whp speaks the
Queen's english, you should keep up by the way, there's not been a king
in quite some years, is Ian McDiarmid, who is the height of evil...
damnfine
This guy actually makes some vadid points, to dismiss him a Troll is
just being immature and ignorant of Lucas and Tolkiens works.
(and I should know)
Kevin FilmNutBoy
>"Marc Sylvestre" <msylv...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>news:a14ldm$i9s$1...@slb7.atl.mindspring.net...
>>
>> "Tavington" <tavi...@zsazsabinks.com> wrote in message
>> news:3c35cff7$1...@news.cybersurf.net...
>> > I saw the
>>
>> Man, that was a great troll. Thanks!
>>
>The "hilarious antics of the lovable Jar Jar Binks" line killed it for me.
>lol!
I would be laughing too, except I'm too frightened by the people who didn't get
the joke.
--Kevin
***
"They'll never catch me ... because I'm fucking innocent."
Ron Christian
Ron
--
[www.europa.com/~ronc]
"I think he's injured."
"He said 'not' at the end of a sentence. He deserves to be injured."
Insane Ranter
TROLLING TROLLING TROLLING!!
TO KEEP THEM POSTS A ROLLIN'
I ALMOST LOST CONTROL AND REPLIED.
Carlos cmsahe
"pied piper" <pe...@sportspitches.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message news:<a14jm2$5e9$1...@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>...
> Tavington <tavi...@zsazsabinks.com> wrote in message
> news:3c35cff7$1...@news.cybersurf.net...
> what rubbish the phantom menace was a rip off of tolkien to start with and
> i actually yawned through the majority of it.
> it was dissapointing compared to star wars first time around(or maybe it
> appealed to me more then as i was much younger)
> lord of the rings is a masterpiece and the films and books will long outlast
> phantom menace
> as for the racist thing why oh why are we inundated with these pathetic
> human rights brigade ppl who have to try and label everything why cant ppl
> just sit back and enjoy the film rather than criticise all the time
Ron Christian
BrianZ <bria...@attbi.com> wrote:
>Man, I hope this entire post is a joke. Any post with Jake Lloyd in all
>capital letters HAS to be a joke.
>BZ
I think the problem is, we've seen enough evidence of Lucas fanatics
who actually believe that SW was always meant for eight-year-olds and
JarJar was a brilliant character and Jake Lloyd can actually act, that
we no longer recognize satire when we see it.
John E.
"Bill Binkelman" <wbink...@gw.hamline.edu> wrote in message
news:cd3de39a.02010...@posting.google.com...
> Thanks for this (unintentionally, most likely) hilarious analysis.
>
> Yes, TPM is not racist...even though the most idiotic character in the
> movie speaks in a pronounced Jamaican patois, the ruthless and wealthy
> Trading reps have a Asian/Japanese accent, and the conniving,
> underhanded owner of a junk shop sure sounds like he's Greek or
> Italian to me (and is named Woppo...oh excuse me, I mean Watto).
> Meanwhile, the heroic Jedis all speak the king's English....
No, thank -you- for your even more hilarious analysis. Perhaps you should
take a look back at the movie. The movie's racist, right? And the only
"good" characters are the Jedi Knights, right? So how come one of them is
black, if the movie is so racist? And while we're at it, perhaps you'd care
to explain how come only the Imperials, the most vile and evil characters in
the movies, always spoke in an English accent? Yet you say that the heroic
Jedi all speak the king's English! So, obviously, the Imperials must be good
guys, too.
-John
Arwen Lune
Jan 2002 08:53:21 -0700. This is what it read:
<snip all>
Hmm, not bad, not bad at all.
A 6,3 for orginality (overall pretty good, but the paragraph on
rascism was deeply unoriginal, that brings it down a bit)
7,6 for arguments
9,2 for style and persisently sticking to your guns
8,7 for just the right brand of over-the-top insanity
However, a 6,0 for fairly obvious crossposting.
Brings us to 7,56 - rounded off, 7,6
Congratulations, you passed!
Cheers,
Darth Arwen
--
"The ability to type does not make one intelligent"
Mike JF
Jouni Karhu <kur...@modeemi.fi> wrote
> I wouldn't classify that as a troll, actually, rather a clever (too
> clever?) piece of satire :)
> // JJ
Yep. Apparently, it's a well written fake review that praises TPM and Jar
Jar but means the opposite. Best fake/opposite review I've ever read. Mike
ed
2002 17:24:23 -0000:
>ed <edh...@equus.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:sanb3us51ql13446i...@4ax.com...
>> The noble "Tavington" <tavi...@zsazsabinks.com> spake on the day of
>> Fri, 4 Jan 2002 08:53:21 -0700:
>>
>> >I saw the much-hyped "Lord of the Rings" movie on opening night, and I
>have
>> >to say that I did find it to be a bit disappointing.
>>
>>
>> If you are going to Troll, can you not do better than that.
>>
>> ed
>> mixed race, mixed religion Tolkien and Star Wars fan
>
>Mixed race, mixed religion and really fucking dumb.
Why, I love you too my brother. Go in the footsteps of whatever Higher
Power you favour.
I just hope you didn't use the fingers you type emails to your mother
with for your comment
ed
ed
2002 10:38:16 -0800:
>Grognards?
>
Name given to Napoleons old troops. It's a title wargamers tend to use
of long in the tooth ie-hard wargamers
Robert Whelan
Unless the people are clever.
Geoff
<tavi...@zsazsabinks.com> deposited this nugget in this
here newsgroup
>>I saw the much-hyped "Lord of the Rings" movie on opening night, and I have
>>to say that I did find it to be a bit disappointing.
blah, blah, blah snipped....
>>Consider -- Tolkien's work itself was never written for the masses.
No writer worthy of the name EVER writes for the masses.
>>script of The Phantom Menace is masterfully written to be accessible to all
>>walks of humanity.
Ignoring the troll phrase "masterfully written," your
statement is proof-positive of mine above. Please tell us
how TPM is "accessible" to the teeming illiterate masses of
this planet.
.....Jar Jar Binks did all of this, and he did it
>>better!
This is where I realized for sure that you're pulling
everyone's leg. I think.
>>.... I cried tears of joy when Jar Jar Binks received
>>the rank of Brigadier General
Wow. Was it the rhapsodic music or were you just sitting on
something uncomfortable?
>>.....This sort of glorification of the antihero in our movies is
>>what is ruining the fabric of our society today.
Sure. Let's ignore all that boring socio-political stuff
like income disparity, the growing irrelevence of religion,
the population explosion, the nuclear sword of Damocles,
dwindling natural resources, the resurgance of
knownothingism, and, and, and....need I go on?
>>The Phantom Menace has it over LotR when it comes to actors, as well. LotR
>>actors consist mainly of has-been actors and never-was actors
Further proof that you're a troll, an idiot, or have
swallowed your tongue. Perhaps all three.
>>..... When Jar Jar Binks steps
>>on a piece of doo doo, it was one of the most memorable scenes in the
>>history of film.
I vote for idiot.
Regards,
Geoff "But is he blithering or complete?"
"Words, words. They're all we have to go on."
--Guildenstern, in Tom Stoppard's "Rosencrantz & Guildenstern Are Dead"
Smaug69
> to say that I did find it to be a bit disappointing.
>
> were generally good, the acting fair to average, and the story, well, we all
> know that... But as far as being a "jumpstart" movie to get modern
> producers thinking seriously about fantasy films, I found it to be a bit of
> a disappointment when compared to The Phantom Menace.
I don't think so.
> I know that this may not be a popular opinion amongst Tolkien grognards, but
> the fact is that The Phantom Menace was a superior piece of filmcraft in
> almost every regard.
Maybe in CGI, but that's where it ends.
> I think the future will bear me out on this one.
>
> Consider -- Tolkien's work itself was never written for the masses.
Actually, it was.
> The
> script of The Phantom Menace is masterfully written
Lucas wrote it and it stinks. Just look at some of that horrible
dialogue.(i.e. "What? Are you brain dead?") Garbage.
> to be accessible to all
> walks of humanity. Meanwhile, Tolkien's story is reserved for the ivory
> towers of an arrogant minority of English teachers and Anglophiles.
You're an idiot.
> Speaking of Anglophiles, it is clear that the LotR movie is inherently
> racist, while The Phantom Menace is certainly not.
Jar Jar anyone?
> Tolkien himself was an
> admitted racist, as evidenced by the completely caucasian ethnicity of his
> characters (with the possible exception of the orcs and goblins, and we all
> know what races of humanity THEY are intended to represent -- degenerate,
> fecund, barbaric, and stupid -- pretty thin veil, Mr. Tolkien)
Orcs are goblins and they were created by Morgoth from Elves he
kidnapped, tortured and twisted.
> Sure, LotR
> has Dwarves, Elves, and Hobbits, but they are all White. The Phantom Menace
> boldly broke racial barriers by having a black officer in Captain Panaka,
Boldly? I think Lando as the owner and operator of his own mining
facility in ESB is a better example to use.
> as
> well as the lovable and masterfully played Jar Jar Binks (courtesy of Ahmed
> Best). Meanwhile LotR has Galadriel actually *TURNING* *INTO* *A* *BLACK*
> *WOMAN* when she is tempted by the Ring -- but only for a moment, then she
> "recovers" her Whiteness when she overcomes her base emotions. If I were a
> Black woman watching this movie I would be highly offended!
If you thought she turned into a black woman then you need to have
your eyesight examined.
> As far as characters are concerned, the thing about LotR that really jumped
> out at me was how inefficient and one-sided the characters really were. For
> example, it took LotR over THREE characters -- Samwise, Merry, Pippin, and
> at times Boromir -- to portray mere facets of what was masterfully
> interwoven in The Phantom Menace as the character of Jar Jar Binks.
Jar Jar Binks did not have character. He _was_ a character. There's a
big difference.
> Samwise
> is the loyal sidekick of the main hero, while Merry and Pippin are there
> mainly for comic relief.
Wait until the other two films come out.
> Jar Jar Binks did all of this, and he did it
> better! His loyalty was greater than that of Samwise, yet he was much more
> willing to express his autonomy and disagree with others -- and his comic
> relief bits were more overblown and frankly funnier to a modern audience.
Inanely stupid, more like.
> Of course, his redemption from his flaws -- his heroic battle against the
> Battle Droids after overcoming his cowardice
Uh, he was cowardly all through that battle.
> -- is ultimately more
> powerfully moving than the death of Boromir, due to the audience's greater
> identification with him. I cried tears of joy when Jar Jar Binks received
> the rank of Brigadier General -- I shed nary a tear for Boromir, who was
> really an evil person and would have killed Frodo for the ring if he'd had
> the chance. This sort of glorification of the antihero in our movies is
> what is ruining the fabric of our society today.
Boromir wasn't an antihero. He was just a simple man who was corrupted
by the power of the Ring.
> The Phantom Menace has it over LotR when it comes to actors, as well.
<choke, cough, cough, cough> What!?!?!? Are you brain dead?!?!?
> LotR
> actors consist mainly of has-been actors and never-was actors; in fact, the
> only actor I remembered in LotR was that puffing guy who played Indiana
> Jones' sidekick (what was his name?) as the Dwarf, Legolas.
The Dwarf was Gimli, Sizzlechest. Legolas was the Elf. Methinks you
probably didn't actually see the film.
> And even then
> they made him up so much that he was impossible to recognize.
Well, he was playing a dwarf, not a human, Jackass.
> Meanwhile The
> Phantom Menace has JAKE LLOYD doing a masterful performance as an intensely
> young and ambitious Anakin Skywalker
LOL! ROTLMFAO!
> -- the intense confidence in his eyes
> as he courageously fights in space against the Trade Federation is far more
> inspiring than Gandalf's battle against the Balrog. In LotR we never even
> SEE Sauron except as some flaming vagina in the sky (an obvious Freudian
> slip on the part of the director) while we witness the Machiavellian tactics
> of Senator Palpatine firsthand.
>
> As for special effects, they were -- OK -- in the LotR movie. Some have
> already mentioned the "Gimli the Elf on the Rock Troll's Back"
At least get the names right before you go trolling.
> example of
> LotR's CGI blundering. However a simple comparision of, say, the Battle
> Droids in the Phantom Menace, leaves one wondering how it is that LotR
> (which was made years AFTER The Phantom Menace) could have been so far
> behind in the FX department. The Phantom Menace's Battle Droids were truly
> fearsome and computer-generated
Fearsome? LOL!
> -- while LotR orcs looked more like humans
> in bad make-up with funny teeth.
I certainly didn't see anything human in them.
> Meanwhile the much-vaunted "Rock Troll"
> looked like someone had stolen some files from the Harry Potter movie's FX
> CGI computer.
LOTR's troll looked better.
> The creeching
What's this word?
> "ring-wraiths" looked like men in black sheets,
They were. They didn't have a physical form.
> stage blood on their horse's hooves notwithstanding. And speaking of
> horses, that ridiculous scene with the horses rising up out of the river at
> Ariel the Elf's "prayer" really broke my suspension of disbelief -- fair CGI
> it may have been, and a fantasy movie LotR may profess to be, but some
> things are so over the top that they break one's immersion in the film.
Considering that was what happened in the novel, you are barking up
the wrong tree, troll-bitch.
> Meanwhile, The Phantom Menace contains the famous "Two Headed Announcer" in
> the Pod Race, which was just long enough to whet our apetites for more
> skillful FX mastery
I'm sorry, but the two-headed shithead in TPM was even worse than Jar
Jar.
> (an astute decision on the part of the director)
Nothing Lucas has done in the last 18 years has been astute.
> Never
> mind the big things -- an entire brigade of fearsome Battle Droids where
> LotR contained only one dragon, which wasn't even supposed to be real but a
> fireworks illusion (nice copout on the part of the director, who SHOULD have
> been showing us at least ONE image of Smaug during the intro)
Why? Smaug only appeared in The Hobbit, was only seen at the Lonely
Mountain, and was killed nearly 77 years before the events of LOTR.
> -- it was the
> multitude of LITTLE things that impressed the audiences of The Phantom
> Menace. The antics of the "Two Headed Announcer" were hilarious and
> completely appropriate in the context of the movie, for example, and that
> was something that audiences took home with them. When Jar Jar Binks steps
> on a piece of doo doo, it was one of the most memorable scenes in the
> history of film.
You know, if you are going to try and troll for responses from people
you could at least make your "argument" a little more plausible.
> When Darth Maul is killed, Obi Wan Kenobi looked far more
> skillful than anything that Aragon ever did in LotR.
So cutting of Lurtz' arm and head without a light saber wasn't as good
as what Obi-Wan did?
> The Phantom Menace has
> brilliant lazer effects -- none of this "telekinesis" crap which the LotR
> movie expects audiences to not notice are being used as an excuse to not
> have to put in rays, lightning, and other effects. How cheap could the
> director get?
Different world. Not all flash and explosions.
> Well, the list goes on and on, but in the end I think it can be best summed
> up but the following: which movie is going to impress the modern audience
> more, the 3-hour monstrosity that will have most of the people counting down
> the minutes until they can use the toilet, or the fun, action-packed fantasy
> romp which includes Jake Lloyd AND the hilarious antics of the lovable Jar
> Jar Binks? I rest my case.
Well, for me what it boils down to is this: Which one will I buy on
DVD and watch countless times? Considering that I haven't bought TPM
yet and never will and that I will get my preorder for LOTR:FOTR in as
soon as I can, I think the latter wins hands down.
Smaug69
R. Cohen
> I saw the much-hyped "Lord of the Rings" movie on opening night, and I have
> to say that I did find it to be a bit disappointing.
>
> Don't get me wrong -- it was an adequate movie and all, the special effects
> were generally good, the acting fair to average, and the story, well, we all
> know that... But as far as being a "jumpstart" movie to get modern
> producers thinking seriously about fantasy films, I found it to be a bit of
> a disappointment when compared to The Phantom Menace.
>
> the fact is that The Phantom Menace was a superior piece of filmcraft in
Well so far that's completely incorrect. There are very few people,
including most Star Wars fans that thinks The Phantom Menace is a good
Star Wars film or even a good film in general. We'll know in two
years after Return of the King how the LOTR epic will truely be
received in terms of film history. 9 hours baby!!! Get those bladders
ready!!!!
> Speaking of Anglophiles, it is clear that the LotR movie is inherently
> racist, while The Phantom Menace is certainly not.
Two words: Stepen Fetchit.
... blah, blah blah.
I think the rest of this is troll material...
Zeefor
> >> If you are going to Troll, can you not do better than that.
> >>
> >> ed
> >> mixed race, mixed religion Tolkien and Star Wars fan
> >
> >Mixed race, mixed religion and really fucking dumb.
>
> Why, I love you too my brother. Go in the footsteps of whatever Higher
> Power you favour.
>
> I just hope you didn't use the fingers you type emails to your mother
> with for your comment
Shut the fuck up.
Apteryx
Tavington <tavi...@zsazsabinks.com> wrote in message
news:3c35cff7$1...@news.cybersurf.net...
> I saw the much-hyped "Lord of the Rings" movie on opening night, and I
have
> to say that I did find it to be a bit disappointing.
>
>
> Well, the list goes on and on, but in the end I think it can be best
summed
> up but the following: which movie is going to impress the modern audience
> more, the 3-hour monstrosity that will have most of the people counting
down
> the minutes until they can use the toilet, or the fun, action-packed
fantasy
> romp which includes Jake Lloyd AND the hilarious antics of the lovable Jar
> Jar Binks? I rest my case.
>
the brilliance of the trolls of yore, along comes this masterpiece. While
it may not be genuinely flawless (some may find it a little long, and some
may not understand it), it is such a thrill to be reminded of what trolls
should be that I for one am prepared to overlook those flaws, and give it
10/10
--
Apteryx
Zeefor
news:r3pZ7.9053$_02.1...@news.xtra.co.nz...
Does this have a double meaning or am I looking too much into it?
> --
> Apteryx
Brad Anton
Tavington <tavi...@zsazsabinks.com> wrote in message
news:3c35cff7$1...@news.cybersurf.net...
> I saw the much-hyped "Lord of the Rings" movie on opening night, and I
have
> to say that I did find it to be a bit disappointing.
>
effects
> were generally good, the acting fair to average, and the story, well, we
all
> know that... But as far as being a "jumpstart" movie to get modern
of
> a disappointment when compared to The Phantom Menace.
>
> I know that this may not be a popular opinion amongst Tolkien grognards,
but
> the fact is that The Phantom Menace was a superior piece of filmcraft in
> almost every regard. I think the future will bear me out on this one.
>
> script of The Phantom Menace is masterfully written to be accessible to
all
> walks of humanity. Meanwhile, Tolkien's story is reserved for the ivory
> towers of an arrogant minority of English teachers and Anglophiles.
>
> admitted racist, as evidenced by the completely caucasian ethnicity of his
> characters (with the possible exception of the orcs and goblins, and we
all
> know what races of humanity THEY are intended to represent -- degenerate,
LotR
> has Dwarves, Elves, and Hobbits, but they are all White. The Phantom
Menace
> boldly broke racial barriers by having a black officer in Captain Panaka,
> well as the lovable and masterfully played Jar Jar Binks (courtesy of
Ahmed
> Best). Meanwhile LotR has Galadriel actually *TURNING* *INTO* *A* *BLACK*
> *WOMAN* when she is tempted by the Ring -- but only for a moment, then she
> "recovers" her Whiteness when she overcomes her base emotions. If I were
a
> Black woman watching this movie I would be highly offended!
>
jumped
> out at me was how inefficient and one-sided the characters really were.
For
> example, it took LotR over THREE characters -- Samwise, Merry, Pippin, and
> at times Boromir -- to portray mere facets of what was masterfully
> interwoven in The Phantom Menace as the character of Jar Jar Binks.
> is the loyal sidekick of the main hero, while Merry and Pippin are there
> better! His loyalty was greater than that of Samwise, yet he was much
more
> willing to express his autonomy and disagree with others -- and his comic
> relief bits were more overblown and frankly funnier to a modern audience.
> powerfully moving than the death of Boromir, due to the audience's greater
> identification with him. I cried tears of joy when Jar Jar Binks received
> the rank of Brigadier General -- I shed nary a tear for Boromir, who was
> really an evil person and would have killed Frodo for the ring if he'd had
> the chance. This sort of glorification of the antihero in our movies is
> what is ruining the fabric of our society today.
>
> actors consist mainly of has-been actors and never-was actors; in fact,
the
> only actor I remembered in LotR was that puffing guy who played Indiana
> they made him up so much that he was impossible to recognize. Meanwhile
The
> Phantom Menace has JAKE LLOYD doing a masterful performance as an
intensely
> as he courageously fights in space against the Trade Federation is far
more
> inspiring than Gandalf's battle against the Balrog. In LotR we never even
> SEE Sauron except as some flaming vagina in the sky (an obvious Freudian
> slip on the part of the director) while we witness the Machiavellian
tactics
> of Senator Palpatine firsthand.
>
> As for special effects, they were -- OK -- in the LotR movie. Some have
> LotR's CGI blundering. However a simple comparision of, say, the Battle
> Droids in the Phantom Menace, leaves one wondering how it is that LotR
> (which was made years AFTER The Phantom Menace) could have been so far
> behind in the FX department. The Phantom Menace's Battle Droids were
truly
> in bad make-up with funny teeth. Meanwhile the much-vaunted "Rock Troll"
> looked like someone had stolen some files from the Harry Potter movie's FX
sheets,
> stage blood on their horse's hooves notwithstanding. And speaking of
> horses, that ridiculous scene with the horses rising up out of the river
at
> Ariel the Elf's "prayer" really broke my suspension of disbelief -- fair
CGI
> it may have been, and a fantasy movie LotR may profess to be, but some
> things are so over the top that they break one's immersion in the film.
>
in
> the Pod Race, which was just long enough to whet our apetites for more
Never
> mind the big things -- an entire brigade of fearsome Battle Droids where
> LotR contained only one dragon, which wasn't even supposed to be real but
a
> fireworks illusion (nice copout on the part of the director, who SHOULD
have
the
> multitude of LITTLE things that impressed the audiences of The Phantom
> Menace. The antics of the "Two Headed Announcer" were hilarious and
> completely appropriate in the context of the movie, for example, and that
> was something that audiences took home with them. When Jar Jar Binks
steps
> on a piece of doo doo, it was one of the most memorable scenes in the
more
> skillful than anything that Aragon ever did in LotR. The Phantom Menace
has
> brilliant lazer effects -- none of this "telekinesis" crap which the LotR
> movie expects audiences to not notice are being used as an excuse to not
> have to put in rays, lightning, and other effects. How cheap could the
> director get?
>
summed
> up but the following: which movie is going to impress the modern audience
> more, the 3-hour monstrosity that will have most of the people counting
down
> the minutes until they can use the toilet, or the fun, action-packed
fantasy
> romp which includes Jake Lloyd AND the hilarious antics of the lovable Jar
> Jar Binks? I rest my case.
>
>
And how do you explain the term " the dark-side of the force"? That's the
bad side I believe.
Cheers
Brad
Ken Ream
Look up "satire" and "humor" in the dictionary.
You take this guys post waaaaaay to seriously.
"Smaug69" <sma...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:5fe774aa.02010...@posting.google.com...
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CleV
FilmNutBoy) wrote:
>"Jay" jaykuma...@REMOVEbt.com wrote:
>>"Marc Sylvestre" <msylv...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>>news:a14ldm$i9s$1...@slb7.atl.mindspring.net...
>>> "Tavington" <tavi...@zsazsabinks.com> wrote in message
>>> news:3c35cff7$1...@news.cybersurf.net...
>>> > I saw the
>>> Man, that was a great troll. Thanks!
>>The "hilarious antics of the lovable Jar Jar Binks" line killed it for me.
>>lol!
>I would be laughing too, except I'm too frightened by the people who didn't get
>the joke.
I would never post a ditto, but then I kept scrolling down ... and
scrolling down ...
Hank
H
>
>Well, the list goes on and on, but in the end I think it can be best summed
>up but the following: which movie is going to impress the modern audience
>more, the 3-hour monstrosity that will have most of the people counting down
>the minutes until they can use the toilet, or the fun, action-packed fantasy
>romp which includes Jake Lloyd AND the hilarious antics of the lovable Jar
>Jar Binks? I rest my case.
>
>Tavington
>
>
m
says...
> Don't get me wrong -- it was an adequate movie and all, the special effects
> were generally good, the acting fair to average, and the story, well, we all
> know that... But as far as being a "jumpstart" movie to get modern
> producers thinking seriously about fantasy films, I found it to be a bit of
> a disappointment when compared to The Phantom Menace.
If no one had heard of the first three Star Wars films and 'The Phantom
Menace' was George Lucas's first use of such characters, I think that it
would have been a dismal failure.
> I know that this may not be a popular opinion amongst Tolkien grognards, but
> the fact is that The Phantom Menace was a superior piece of filmcraft in
> almost every regard. I think the future will bear me out on this one.
Superior filmcraft my foot. If Jar Jar binks didn't drive you mad then
the force 'posh' accents of both Liam Neeson and Ewan MacGreggor would
have done.
> Consider -- Tolkien's work itself was never written for the masses. The
> script of The Phantom Menace is masterfully written to be accessible to all
> walks of humanity. Meanwhile, Tolkien's story is reserved for the ivory
> towers of an arrogant minority of English teachers and Anglophiles.
By this you are assuming that no one should even bother to try and bring
Tolkiens excellent work to the masses. This kind of inverse snobbery I
find distastefull.
> Speaking of Anglophiles, it is clear that the LotR movie is inherently
> racist, while The Phantom Menace is certainly not. Tolkien himself was an
> admitted racist, as evidenced by the completely caucasian ethnicity of his
> characters (with the possible exception of the orcs and goblins, and we all
> know what races of humanity THEY are intended to represent -- degenerate,
> fecund, barbaric, and stupid -- pretty thin veil, Mr. Tolkien). Sure, LotR
> has Dwarves, Elves, and Hobbits, but they are all White. The Phantom Menace
> boldly broke racial barriers by having a black officer in Captain Panaka, as
> well as the lovable and masterfully played Jar Jar Binks (courtesy of Ahmed
> Best). Meanwhile LotR has Galadriel actually *TURNING* *INTO* *A* *BLACK*
> *WOMAN* when she is tempted by the Ring -- but only for a moment, then she
> "recovers" her Whiteness when she overcomes her base emotions. If I were a
> Black woman watching this movie I would be highly offended!
When did Galadriel ever turn into a black woman. I must have missed that
bit.
In the book her description is :-
She lifted up her hand and from the ring that she wore there issued a
great light that illuminated her alone and left all else in dark. She
stood before Frodo seeming now tall beyond measurement, and beautiful
beyond enduring, terrible and worshipful.
In the film she certainly didn't turn into a black woman. You are trying
to make an arguement out of nothing.
Where is it said that Tolkien was a racist. He certainly never said
anything of the sort in his lifetime.
It is interesting to see how you see what Goblins Orcs and other
creatures represent. You are beginning to give yourself away.
> As far as characters are concerned, the thing about LotR that really jumped
> out at me was how inefficient and one-sided the characters really were. For
> example, it took LotR over THREE characters -- Samwise, Merry, Pippin, and
> at times Boromir -- to portray mere facets of what was masterfully
> interwoven in The Phantom Menace as the character of Jar Jar Binks. Samwise
> is the loyal sidekick of the main hero, while Merry and Pippin are there
> mainly for comic relief. Jar Jar Binks did all of this, and he did it
> better! His loyalty was greater than that of Samwise, yet he was much more
> willing to express his autonomy and disagree with others -- and his comic
> relief bits were more overblown and frankly funnier to a modern audience.
> Of course, his redemption from his flaws -- his heroic battle against the
> Battle Droids after overcoming his cowardice -- is ultimately more
> powerfully moving than the death of Boromir, due to the audience's greater
> identification with him. I cried tears of joy when Jar Jar Binks received
> the rank of Brigadier General -- I shed nary a tear for Boromir, who was
> really an evil person and would have killed Frodo for the ring if he'd had
> the chance. This sort of glorification of the antihero in our movies is
> what is ruining the fabric of our society today.
You are forgetting that the Lord of the Rings was written nearly seventy
years before The Phantom Menace.
Boromir was temporarilly overcome by the power of the ring. I doubt very
much that he would have killed Frodo for it, since his own internal moral
compass was very strong (unlike Gollums).
Jar Jar binks was an irritating floppy eared jug mouthed fool who
appealed only to the very young Star Wars fans.
You have written a lot in this post, but I don't think that you have
adequately thought through any of it.
Try again next time.
Eduardo Suastegui
--
Eduardo Suastegui
"Test everything. Hold on to the good."
(remove '701' when replying via e-mail)
ed
>ed <edh...@equus.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:291c3u40e1h9uuslf...@4ax.com...
>
>> >> If you are going to Troll, can you not do better than that.
>> >>
>> >> ed
>> >> mixed race, mixed religion Tolkien and Star Wars fan
>> >
>> >Mixed race, mixed religion and really fucking dumb.
>>
>> Why, I love you too my brother. Go in the footsteps of whatever Higher
>> Power you favour.
>>
>> I just hope you didn't use the fingers you type emails to your mother
>> with for your comment
>
>Shut the fuck up.
I hear you and am just beaming large quatities of love towards you.
Ian McDowell
throughout, and unlike many trolls the poster doesn't try to provoke a
reaction by expressing himself in a willfully stupid manner. I'm
impressed.
Tim May
<c...@morialevel9.net> wrote:
> One Phantom Menace fan here makes it sound like Star Wars fans
> are terrified of not being politically correct. Their entertainment,
> the words they utter, the very thoughts inside their heads must
> conform to the ivory tower ideals they learned in college and from
> the boobs on the tube. The idea of maybe commit thought crime a
> real fear. Surely Star War fans aren't that timid, that scared of
> thinking for themselves? Surely they can enjoy works of high art
> from the past without wanting to burn them in ovens as being not
> correct for viewing by 'modern man'?
If the negroes think "Star Wars" be racist, den deys be fucked.
--Tim May
Dylan Bryan-Dolman
>
> > Surely they can enjoy works of high art
> > from the past without wanting to burn them in ovens as being not
> > correct for viewing by 'modern man'?
There are of course different standards for popular entertainment and for
high art.
Lord Jubjub
"Zeefor" <zee...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Double, triple, quadruple. . .
--
Lord Jubjub
Ruler of the Jabberwocky, Guardian of the Wabe, Prince of the Slithy Toves,
Leader of the raths, Keeper of the Bandersnatch
Raven Mac Andhru
a disappointment when compared to The Phantom Menace.
I know that this may not be a popular opinion amongst Tolkien
grognards, but
the fact is that The Phantom Menace was a superior piece of filmcraft
in
>>almost every regard. I think the future will bear me out on this one.
>>Meanwhile, Tolkien's story is reserved for the ivory
>>towers of an arrogant minority of English teachers and Anglophiles.
ROFL.......jeeeesus stop,i'm laughing so hard i think i've cracked a
rib.....hehehehehehe...
Damn its good to laugh*wipes tears from his eyes*
Wait a minute....oh no...you cant .......heheheheh....your not serious are
you.....hahahahah.....oh christ that would be even funnier....LOL
>>the only actor I remembered in LotR was that puffing guy who played
Indiana
>>Jones' sidekick (what was his name?) as the Dwarf, Legolas.
LOL.........you could be on the stage..lol
I could paste quote after quote of your post in this reply,but i wont as i
think i may need medical attention to me ribs...lol.....
Thanks anyway,cause i had a really hard day at work and thats cheered me up
no end.....It's good to laugh.. :-)
Raven Mac Andhru
pied piper
Ian McDowell <ian...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:iankmcd-0401...@pool-63.50.56.51.rlgh.grid.net...
Zeefor
> I hear you and am just beaming large quatities of love towards you.
Shut the fuck up.
John E.
"Lord Jubjub" <jub...@ev1.net> wrote in message
news:jubjub-51B7ED....@newsa.ev1.net...
I'll see you your quadruple meaning, and raise you an octuple.
Smaug69
> Smaug,
> Look up "satire" and "humor" in the dictionary.
> You take this guys post waaaaaay to seriously.
It certainly wasn't satire. I could understand if someone was strictly
comparing LOTR to TPM for that effect, but there was alot more going
on there. It was flame-baiting. I see it all the time, but I still
enjoy responding- from time to time.
Smaug69
Kjacks...@hotmail.com
Bill Binkelman
<jep...@telusplanet.net> wrote:
>
> "Bill Binkelman" <wbink...@gw.hamline.edu> wrote in message
> news:cd3de39a.02010...@posting.google.com...
>> Thanks for this (unintentionally, most likely) hilarious analysis.
>>
>> Yes, TPM is not racist...even though the most idiotic character in the
>> movie speaks in a pronounced Jamaican patois, the ruthless and wealthy
>> Trading reps have a Asian/Japanese accent, and the conniving,
>> underhanded owner of a junk shop sure sounds like he's Greek or
>> Italian to me (and is named Woppo...oh excuse me, I mean Watto).
>> Meanwhile, the heroic Jedis all speak the king's English....
>
> No, thank -you- for your even more hilarious analysis. Perhaps you should
> take a look back at the movie. The movie's racist, right? And the only
> "good" characters are the Jedi Knights, right? So how come one of them is
> black, if the movie is so racist? And while we're at it, perhaps you'd care
> to explain how come only the Imperials, the most vile and evil characters in
> the movies, always spoke in an English accent? Yet you say that the heroic
> Jedi all speak the king's English! So, obviously, the Imperials must be good
> guys, too.
>
Of course, you're right! (sarcasm mode off) My point was not so much that
TPM _is_ racist (although I think Lucas showed abysmal judgment in assigning
accents), as much as I was making a point that racism can be found in TPM if
you look for it. Since the troll was trying (successfully) to bait me with
accusing LOTR as being racist, whereas TPM is not, I merely pointed out that
the race card could be played either way.
Frankly, as to TPM, it's such a piece of shit that to say it's racist is
lending it too much importance. It's a fetid rotten pile of diseased flesh,
basking in the sun and spreading its foul stench as far as the ear can
smell.
Is it racist? Probably not intentionally; it's just mind-bogglingly idiotic.
My only reason for bringing up the _obvious_ accents is to contradict the
troll. OTOH, your near-obsessive defense of a movie as moronic, crappy and
inane as TPM marks you as someone who needs to take a deep breath and relax.
Of course, I stupidly fed the fuckin' troll, so I guess I need to do the
same thing, too. Or, better yet, I'll just have another drink instead.
Bill B
John E.
"Bill Binkelman" <bi...@bitstream.net> wrote in message
news:3c36642b$0$79561$6536...@news.bitstream.net...
Defending it? No, I just don't tend to appreciate it when people try to PC
everything. The original troll was an idiot. I happened to quite like LOTR.
-John
CRASS
I fucking hate that app. (ROFLMAO) god i just want to kill someone
CRASS
i.e. I think the rest of this is troll material...
Dave
> I saw the much-hyped "Lord of the Rings" movie on opening night, and I have
Most movies have at least some disappointing aspect.
> Don't get me wrong -- it was an adequate movie and all, the special effects
> were generally good, the acting fair to average, and the story, well, we all
> know that... But as far as being a "jumpstart" movie to get modern
> a disappointment when compared to The Phantom Menace.
disagree. They were simply different types of movies.
> I know that this may not be a popular opinion amongst Tolkien grognards, but
> the fact is that The Phantom Menace was a superior piece of filmcraft in
> almost every regard. I think the future will bear me out on this one.
> For example, it took LotR over THREE characters -- Samwise, Merry, Pippin, and
> at times Boromir -- to portray mere facets of what was masterfully
> interwoven in The Phantom Menace as the character of Jar Jar Binks.
ROTFL. The widely despised pseudo-Jamacian-alien Jar Jar who ruined
the movie?
http://u.webring.com/hub?ring=jarjarhate&list
rand mair fheal
tim may is long time usenet kook/troll
respond as you wish
but a vast flame war will only be to his delight
Ron Christian
The Arctic Moose <thenospama...@aglami.com> wrote:
>Whilst i was grazing on the tundra of the arctic, pied piper said to me
>in a vision...
>>
>> Tavington <tavi...@zsazsabinks.com> wrote in message
>> news:3c35cff7$1...@news.cybersurf.net...
>
>How's that then?
Everything is.
Ron
--
[www.europa.com/~ronc]
"I think he's injured."
"He said 'not' at the end of a sentence. He deserves to be injured."
Ron Christian
John E. <jep...@telusplanet.net> wrote:
>
>"Bill Binkelman" <wbink...@gw.hamline.edu> wrote in message
>news:cd3de39a.02010...@posting.google.com...
>> Thanks for this (unintentionally, most likely) hilarious analysis.
>>
>> Yes, TPM is not racist...even though the most idiotic character in the
>> movie speaks in a pronounced Jamaican patois, the ruthless and wealthy
>> Trading reps have a Asian/Japanese accent, and the conniving,
>> underhanded owner of a junk shop sure sounds like he's Greek or
>> Italian to me (and is named Woppo...oh excuse me, I mean Watto).
>> Meanwhile, the heroic Jedis all speak the king's English....
>
>No, thank -you- for your even more hilarious analysis. Perhaps you should
>take a look back at the movie. The movie's racist, right? And the only
>"good" characters are the Jedi Knights, right? So how come one of them is
>black, if the movie is so racist?
Because in that particular film he's not making fun of blacks.
Do you think it has to be against blacks to be racism?
Ron Christian
Robert Whelan <rwh...@amanda.dorsai.org> wrote:
>On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Aris Katsaris wrote:
>
>>
>> "Jouni Karhu" <kur...@modeemi.fi> wrote in message
>> news:3c35db39...@news.cc.tut.fi...
>> >
>> > I wouldn't classify that as a troll, actually, rather a clever (too
>> > clever?) piece of satire :)
>>
>> "Too subtle" doesn't equal "too clever"... If satire's meant to make
>> us laugh, then being too subtle doesn't make people laugh, thus
>> isn't clever... :-)
>
>Unless the people are clever.
>
Ooh, good point. But a good satirist knows the audience he's
playing to.
Ron Christian
Geoff <gbur...@erinet.com> wrote:
>On Fri, 4 Jan 2002 08:53:21 -0700, "Tavington"
><tavi...@zsazsabinks.com> deposited this nugget in this
>here newsgroup
>>>I saw the much-hyped "Lord of the Rings" movie on opening night, and I have
>>>to say that I did find it to be a bit disappointing.
>
>
>>>Consider -- Tolkien's work itself was never written for the masses.
>
I assume you're not including J. K. Rowling in that definition...
Ron Christian
ed <edh...@equus.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>The noble "Tavington" <tavi...@zsazsabinks.com> spake on the day of
>Fri, 4 Jan 2002 08:53:21 -0700:
>
>
>>I know that this may not be a popular opinion amongst Tolkien grognards, but
>>the fact is that The Phantom Menace was a superior piece of filmcraft in
>>almost every regard. I think the future will bear me out on this one.
>
>
>edition on TPM. As evidenced by his saying so outright on the making of
>section included with the DVD
Geeze, then why didn't he do something about it? He had,
what, fifteen years to make it?
John Savard
<tavi...@zsazsabinks.com> wrote, in part:
>Consider -- Tolkien's work itself was never written for the masses. The
>script of The Phantom Menace is masterfully written to be accessible to all
>walks of humanity.
Well, while I might well agree that Walt Disney and Charlie Chaplin
have created *real* film masterpieces, I would hardly make
accessibility the prime consideration.
>Speaking of Anglophiles, it is clear that the LotR movie is inherently
>racist, while The Phantom Menace is certainly not. Tolkien himself was an
>admitted racist,
Actually, not. In his "Letters", he explicitly denies racism on
several occasions.
>as evidenced by the completely caucasian ethnicity of his
>characters
What *sort* of ethnicity would you expect of characters living in
ancient England? These people didn't have jet planes and transatlantic
ocean liners, so there weren't any immigrant populations.
>Meanwhile LotR has Galadriel actually *TURNING* *INTO* *A* *BLACK*
>*WOMAN* when she is tempted by the Ring -- but only for a moment, then she
>"recovers" her Whiteness when she overcomes her base emotions. If I were a
>Black woman watching this movie I would be highly offended!
They did use their second string visual effect, probably because the
good one they wanted to use flopped, but whe was turning into a woman
in shadow from light behind her.
This post is so preposterous that I *hope* it is a troll. I pity you
too much to want you to actually be this stupid.
John E.
"Ron Christian" <ro...@pacifier.com> wrote in message
news:3c369387$1...@news.nwlink.com...
> In article <K1nZ7.19009$e4.68...@news0.telusplanet.net>,
> John E. <jep...@telusplanet.net> wrote:
> >
> >"Bill Binkelman" <wbink...@gw.hamline.edu> wrote in message
> >news:cd3de39a.02010...@posting.google.com...
> >> Thanks for this (unintentionally, most likely) hilarious analysis.
> >>
> >> Yes, TPM is not racist...even though the most idiotic character in the
> >> movie speaks in a pronounced Jamaican patois, the ruthless and wealthy
> >> Trading reps have a Asian/Japanese accent, and the conniving,
> >> underhanded owner of a junk shop sure sounds like he's Greek or
> >> Italian to me (and is named Woppo...oh excuse me, I mean Watto).
> >> Meanwhile, the heroic Jedis all speak the king's English....
> >
> >No, thank -you- for your even more hilarious analysis. Perhaps you should
> >take a look back at the movie. The movie's racist, right? And the only
> >"good" characters are the Jedi Knights, right? So how come one of them is
> >black, if the movie is so racist?
>
> Because in that particular film he's not making fun of blacks.
>
> Do you think it has to be against blacks to be racism?
Umm, no, I never said that. However, anyone who can find racism in The
Phantom Menace should have no problem whatsoever finding racism in Lord of
the Rings. I'm not saying it exists; however, if you're going to look hard
enough to find it in TPM, finding it in LOTR shouldn't be very hard.
-John
Dale Hicks
says...
> Meanwhile LotR has Galadriel actually *TURNING* *INTO* *A* *BLACK*
> *WOMAN* when she is tempted by the Ring -- but only for a moment, then she
> "recovers" her Whiteness when she overcomes her base emotions.
Tell it, my brother. (okay, I just channeled what Wayans show skit?)
> The Phantom Menace has it over LotR when it comes to actors, as well. LotR
> actors consist mainly of has-been actors and never-was actors; in fact, the
> only actor I remembered in LotR was that puffing guy who played Indiana
> Jones' sidekick (what was his name?)
Sallah? I blanked on this forever, only able to think of Belloq. And
that despite the line "I told you no camels ..."
--
Cranial Crusader dgh...@bellsouth.net
rande...@aol.com
Only someone with a hyphenated name would show such conceit.
-Rich
Dylan Bryan-Dolman
> Only someone with a hyphenated name would show such conceit.
> -Rich
Oh yeah? Well, you've got a hyphen *before* your name,
mister "-Rich". So there!
Wes Hutchings
smells like Salacious Crumb after a weekend bender.
"It's too late Jim. We lost him. He's dead."
wes
ed
2002 21:57:12 -0800:
>In article <mhnb3uoik1m6g50p7...@4ax.com>,
>ed <edh...@equus.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>The noble "Tavington" <tavi...@zsazsabinks.com> spake on the day of
>>Fri, 4 Jan 2002 08:53:21 -0700:
>>
>>
>>>I know that this may not be a popular opinion amongst Tolkien grognards, but
>>>the fact is that The Phantom Menace was a superior piece of filmcraft in
>>>almost every regard. I think the future will bear me out on this one.
>>
>>
>>One thing to note. Not even George Lucas is happy with the pacing and
>>edition on TPM. As evidenced by his saying so outright on the making of
>>section included with the DVD
>
>Geeze, then why didn't he do something about it? He had,
>what, fifteen years to make it?
Because by the time he saw the final cut and thought "Shit, this is too
fast with some bad shifts here" he was committed to a release date
ed
--
edh...@equus.demon.co.uk | Dragons Rescued | _////
http://www.equus.demon.co.uk/ | Maidens Slain | o_/o ///
For devilbunnies, Diplomacy, RPGs, | Quests P.O.A. | __\ ///__
Science-Fiction and other stuff | | <*>
ed
2002 00:41:35 -0000:
>ed <edh...@equus.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:fhcc3ukq2kvvjar44...@4ax.com...
>
>> I hear you and am just beaming large quatities of love towards you.
>
>Shut the fuck up.
Thank you for taking the trouble and effort to reply. It is meeting
people like you that make the Internet such a rewarding place to be.
Raven Mac Andhru
>>I fucking hate that app. (ROFLMAO) god i just want to kill someone
ROFLMAO.........:-p
Raven Mac Andhru
J. Alexander Panic
Love,
me
http://www.juicycerebellum.com
"LOTR: FOTR Post Holiday Plunge Meter added today!"
Vincent
> fast with some bad shifts here" he was committed to a release date
Lucas needed to see the finut cut to come to this conclusion ?
Gheez...I could have skimmed over that script and told him that the
idea of having the kid pilot a ship to a space station, and then
blowing up the space station, was what you might refer to as a "bad
shift" !!
Being a "Star Wars" fan, let me say this :
- "The Phantom Menace" sucked big time
- it is all Lucas' fault
- EVERYTHING that I have seen regarding the next movie looks even
worst !! (including the title !!!!! who is he kidding with that dumb
title anyway ??? Sounds like an Ed Wood movie !!!! )
In ten years Lucas is going to wish he never started the second
trilogy because it is going to scare the "Star Wars" legacy.
Bob
Dylan Bryan-Dolman wrote:
You forgot " neener neener neener".
Bob
Jouni Karhu
>In article <3c360b0b$0$37105$4c5e...@news.erinet.com>,
>Geoff <gbur...@erinet.com> wrote:
>>On Fri, 4 Jan 2002 08:53:21 -0700, "Tavington"
>><tavi...@zsazsabinks.com> deposited this nugget in this
>>here newsgroup
>>>>I saw the much-hyped "Lord of the Rings" movie on opening night, and I have
>>>>to say that I did find it to be a bit disappointing.
>>
>>blah, blah, blah snipped....
>>
>>>>Consider -- Tolkien's work itself was never written for the masses.
>>
>>No writer worthy of the name EVER writes for the masses.
>
>I assume you're not including J. K. Rowling in that definition...
This is so unfair towards Rowling that it's not even fucking funny.
Exactly for what masses did she write "Harry Potter and the
Philosopher's Stone"?
//JJ
The Arctic Moose
> In article <MPG.169ff8e8a...@news.ntlworld.com>,
> The Arctic Moose <thenospama...@aglami.com> wrote:
> >Whilst i was grazing on the tundra of the arctic, pied piper said to me
> >in a vision...
> >>
> >> Tavington <tavi...@zsazsabinks.com> wrote in message
> >> news:3c35cff7$1...@news.cybersurf.net...
> >> what rubbish the phantom menace was a rip off of tolkien
> >
> >How's that then?
>
>
> Everything is.
>
>
> Ron
>
Yeah...
--
The Arctic Moose
Snootchie Boochie Noochies! - Jay
Ron Christian
At a guess, the masses who purchased it. The book is a very
straightforward, linear children's story that displays merely
adequate wordsmithing on the part of the author. It is no
more "literature" than is Danny Dunn and the Homework Machine.
The Potter craze is this century's Pet Rock.
The idea that the first Harry Potter novel was written out of
some inner need to write amuses greatly. It was much more likely
a last ditch attempt to pay the rent, which paid off better than
Rowling expected. Her next novels were specifically targeted
at the same crowd. (I've read them; they're basically variations
on the same plot.)
Mind you, I don't begrudge her the fortune that Potter has made
for her, but to say that she answered some internal muse to release
a literary gem from her creative soul is, I think, unrealistic.
It's about the money. (And that's ok -- you can't do much without
money.) It just turned out to be more money than she expected.
Dawn Taylor
The Arctic Moose
in a vision...
> One Phantom Menace fan here makes it sound like Star Wars fans
> are terrified of not being politically correct. Their entertainment,
> the words they utter, the very thoughts inside their heads must
> conform to the ivory tower ideals they learned in college and from
> the boobs on the tube. The idea of maybe commit thought crime a
> real fear. Surely Star War fans aren't that timid, that scared of
> thinking for themselves? Surely they can enjoy works of high art
> correct for viewing by 'modern man'?
>
Funny that you mistake this plebian piece of shit pig fucker for a star
wars fan
Joshua Jackson's Evil Twin
"John Savard" <jsa...@ecn.aSBLOKb.caNADA.invalid> wrote in message
news:3c369e19...@news.powersurfr.com...
> What *sort* of ethnicity would you expect of characters living in
> ancient England? These people didn't have jet planes and transatlantic
> ocean liners, so there weren't any immigrant populations.
You're forgetting the Southerners migrating North to Bree (FotR), the
swarthy allies of Gondor like the Men of Lossarnach who are cheered on by
the fair-skinned Gondorians as they ride to the aid of Minas Tirith (RotK),
and the followers of the Easterling chieftain Bor who migrated Westwards to
Beleriand and remained faithful to the Elves when their countrymen turned to
evil (Sil). Tolkien a racist? Pah!
Richard Drushel
: It is no
: more "literature" than is Danny Dunn and the Homework Machine.
Hey, I loved "Danny Dunn and the Anti-Gravity Paint" as a boy!
*Rich*
--
Richard F. Drushel, Ph.D. | "Aplysia californica" is your taxonomic
Department of Biology, Slug Division | nomenclature. / A slug, by any other
Case Western Reserve University | name, is still a slug by nature.
Cleveland, Ohio 44106-7080 U.S.A. | -- apologies to Data, "Ode to Spot"
Geoff
>>In article <3c360b0b$0$37105$4c5e...@news.erinet.com>,
>>Geoff <gbur...@erinet.com> wrote:
>>>On Fri, 4 Jan 2002 08:53:21 -0700, "Tavington"
>>><tavi...@zsazsabinks.com> deposited this nugget in this
>>>here newsgroup
>>>>>I saw the much-hyped "Lord of the Rings" movie on opening night, and I have
>>>>>to say that I did find it to be a bit disappointing.
>>>
>>>blah, blah, blah snipped....
>>>
>>>>>Consider -- Tolkien's work itself was never written for the masses.
>>>
>>>No writer worthy of the name EVER writes for the masses.
>>
>>I assume you're not including J. K. Rowling in that definition...
Not specifically, but if Rowling did, indeed, write the
Harry Potter books "for the masses," then I am heartily
disappointed in her.
Regards,
Geoff "and that bastard, Stephen King, too!"
"Words, words. They're all we have to go on."
--Guildenstern, in Tom Stoppard's "Rosencrantz & Guildenstern Are Dead"
David Salo
Evil Twin" <apoca...@clara.co.uk> wrote:
> "John Savard" <jsa...@ecn.aSBLOKb.caNADA.invalid> wrote in message
> news:3c369e19...@news.powersurfr.com...
> > What *sort* of ethnicity would you expect of characters living in
> > ancient England? These people didn't have jet planes and transatlantic
> > ocean liners, so there weren't any immigrant populations.
>
> You're forgetting the Southerners migrating North to Bree (FotR)
These "southerners" are from Dunland, not from the far south;
they're only southern in comparison to Bree and the Shire.
A lot of times when Tolkien calls people "dark" he's only referring
to hair or eye color, skin color not varying enough to make a
difference. I think the only dark-skinned people in The Lord of the
Rings are from the Harad, and even so we're only talking about a light
to medium brown.
I'm not arguing for Tolkien being a racist; I'm just saying that a
lot of the distinctions he makes are not between "races" but among
rather subtle variations within a single "race". I am using the term
"race" in its colloquial sense (as seen by westerners, especially
Americans) -- I'm quite aware that scientifically it has no validity at
all.
DS
Zeefor
> Thank you for taking the trouble and effort to reply. It is meeting
> people like you that make the Internet such a rewarding place to be.
Shut the fuck up.
--
(|||rise|||)=(Z][E][E][F][O][R)=(|||fall|||)
"But were not out to make Christianity cool because how we believe that how
much cooler can you be get than coming on earth as human and dying...that's
pretty hard-core!!!" -Delirious
ed
5 Jan 2002 05:56:07 -0800:
>> Because by the time he saw the final cut and thought "Shit, this is too
>> fast with some bad shifts here" he was committed to a release date
>
>Lucas needed to see the finut cut to come to this conclusion ?
>Gheez...I could have skimmed over that script and told him that the
>idea of having the kid pilot a ship to a space station, and then
>blowing up the space station, was what you might refer to as a "bad
>shift" !!
>
>Being a "Star Wars" fan, let me say this :
>- "The Phantom Menace" sucked big time
>- it is all Lucas' fault
>- EVERYTHING that I have seen regarding the next movie looks even
>worst !! (including the title !!!!! who is he kidding with that dumb
>title anyway ??? Sounds like an Ed Wood movie !!!! )
No argument from me on the title. My colleagues and I all groaned "He
cannot be serious"
ed
>ed <edh...@equus.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:6pmd3uopd4sjq00ij...@4ax.com...
>
>> Thank you for taking the trouble and effort to reply. It is meeting
>> people like you that make the Internet such a rewarding place to be.
>
>Shut the fuck up.
Once again I am gratified that you have taken the time and trouble to
correspond. Your posts are a source of never ending delight to me.
Dan Seriff
>>>> No writer worthy of the name EVER writes for the masses.
>>>
>>> I assume you're not including J. K. Rowling in that definition...
>
> Not specifically, but if Rowling did, indeed, write the
> Harry Potter books "for the masses," then I am heartily
> disappointed in her.
Children's books are, by definition, written for the "masses". Harry Potter
isn't "literature", it's capitalism in action.
--
Daniel Seriff
micro...@sericap.com
http://members.tripod.com/microtonal
I never worry that all hell will break loose. My concern is that only part
of hell will break loose and be much harder to detect.
-Carlin
Raven Mac Andhru
Lol......
Raven Mac Andhru
Zeefor
news:ESMZ7.8733$vf6.1...@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com...
> Ed-4......Zeefor-0
>
>
> Lol......
Zeefor
> Once again I am gratified that you have taken the time and trouble to
> correspond. Your posts are a source of never ending delight to me.
Shut the fuck up.