YEA art mission statement a joke
NOTI...@aol.com
"Living is a form of not being sure, not knowing the next and how. The moment
you know how you begin to die a little. The artist never entirely knows - we
guess. We may be wrong, but will take leap after leap in the dark."
As a professional illustrator in a very competitive market of architectural,
engineering and design/development firms, let me say the YEA statement is pure
bullshit. These people know NOTHING about *art* or *design*, nor do the
*designers* who work for them. Its all a sham.
>Living is not being sure.
Living is being *sure*. Its creats consistency in life, building a solid base
from which to explore personal talents. No base? YEA will then brainwash you.
They like those kind of people. Blacken your mind. YEA will enlighten
you...... Hopkins, you goin to Hale Bopp?
>Not knowing the next and how.
Funny, but the stock markets place notice 6 months in advance.
If you dont know the next then you get good enough to create it. Cant do that
in YEA cause Hopkins states: "I am no fan of competition."
>Not knowing how.
Sounds like YEA visual designers and judges.
If ya dont know how, you wont be in business long. (Boston is affiliated with
who?)
>The moment you know how, you begin to die a little.
The moment you know how, you have just begun to live. Some things take
practice.
>The artist never entirely knows-we guess.
The artist knows the limits of the medium. The better he knows them, the
better the result....which explains the lack of design capabilities in YEA
staffs and shows. They dont *know*. They cant draw. They are fakes using the
word *designer* as a crutch cause they cant make it in the real design world.
The artist *knows* when a work is finished when adding a brush stroke, note or
word can tell no more to no better result.
>Artists guess.
People dont pay me to guess. They pay me for results. Un-knowing guesses get
you in trouble. What are the *results* of your YEA artists???? Tell me what
these *no-nothings* (as you yourselves call them) are teaching kids????
Well???? Gonna post their portfolios so we can see these YEA masters at work?
Or are they KNOW NOTHINGS LIKE YOU SAY????
>But will take leap after leap in the dark.
After a few leaps in da dark, you aint gonna be in no shape to leap again.
Always turn the lights on before you paint, sketch, or compose. It really
helps to use cognitive skills and *SEE* what the hell you are doing. (Maybe
this explains garfields drill of the past 16 years...)
In other words....YEA says not to think. YEA will do all your thinking for
you. They will tell you what *art* is or if they dont know, say everything
looks the same in the dark (so we are artists.) YEA is in the room with the
lights on counting money as the kids sitting contemplate how to paint with
black paint on a black canvas in a dark room. Mind boggling. Its time YEA
flipped the switch. Maybe then their *designers* could see the connect-the-
dot kindergarden shapes and pencil them in.
>We guess.
There is a big difference between an educated guess and a dumb guess. What
are the qualifications of all YEA designers and judges???? Are they educated
in art OR DUMB???? Care to share this with us? Or did the lights in your
headquarters suddenly go out?
NOT IN STEP
Dennis E. Sparrow
>Here is YEA's art concept:
>
>"Living is a form of not being sure, not knowing the next and how. The moment
>you know how you begin to die a little. The artist never entirely knows - we
>guess. We may be wrong, but will take leap after leap in the dark."
Sounds like the four unhappinesses of life. Fear, Doubt, Worry, and Surprise.
Not having a sense of direction could have you end up going around in circles,
wasting precious time. Not being sure is unhappy living. Drum corps is
supposed to build confidence, not this wishy washy bullshit that is stated by
whoever wrote YEA's art concept. A false step used to be a big ol' fat tick,
just as bad as not being in step or missing a step off completely. If you do not
know the next and how, it is wise to either find someone who knows to teach you,
or figure it out on your own. If you don't know, that truly makes you ignorant.
If you don't find out, that makes you lazy and stupid. Man by nature is curious
and seeks knowledge and truth. The moment you know how is the moment of light
from which to build upon. It should perpetuate a further quest for knowledge.
There is no death in knowledge, only enlightenment. Guessing can be very
dangerous in most aspects of life. It could cost you your job or even worse,
your life. If you gamble with an uneducated guess, you stand the chance of
losing big time. Be careful where you tread. You may end up winning a Darwin
award if you don't.
Dennis E. Sparrow
An Art Student and Art Teacher for Life.
Mike Collins
> Hopkins, you goin to Hale Bopp?
Sorry to interrupt you Ken, but this was awesome!! Best laugh I've had
all week (and I'm in band camp in 110 degrees....)
--
Mike Collins
BD 84,86
VK Brass Staff 88-91
Disney Hacker 91-96
Elementary Music Teacher 95-98
Assistan HS Band Director 98-?? (Much Better!)
email: mscol...@earthlink.net
Terri Dittrich
He's only going if he doesn't blink and has his nikes on.
-Terri
Antunes
>
> Here is YEA's art concept:
>
> "Living is a form of not being sure, not knowing the next and how. The moment
> you know how you begin to die a little. The artist never entirely knows - we
> guess. We may be wrong, but will take leap after leap in the dark."
>
Lynne
Dartmouth High band parent and Cadets mom
MJPUDSTER
>Here is YEA's art concept:
>
>"Living is a form of not being sure, not knowing the next and how. The
>moment
>you know how you begin to die a little. The artist never entirely knows - we
>guess. We may be wrong, but will take leap after leap in the dark."
>
And the saddest part of this whole thing is that this attitude seems to be
pervasive in Junior Corps. And it wins. I guess the judges must read the same
books?
"Could this planet be some other planet's hell?"
RobbSi
In 1981 Montreal, the Crossmen design staff made a last minute decision to
bring back Superman in Rocky underwear.
Philly's library steps field props were recreated for competitiont & Joey
Guadnino, a muscle-bound snare, was "recruited" as Rocky, dancin' on the
library steps. The night before prelims, the corps attached a signed petition
to the field prop indicating we did not want to have it as a part of our show
(remember how competitive Superman was in 79 & 80?). The design staff obliged
and canned the prop. We should have been more tenacious against the show that
sunk the corps in 1983.
How can I be successful acieving a goal when no clear path has been laid
out?...when I'm guessing? I don't believe any student can learn from a teacher
who teaches by "guessing".
YEA!'s guesses may be an 'out' for saying we create w/ an end in mind, but if
we screw up, it's because life is uncertain, and therefore, designing is
uncertain; it's not OUR fault!
-- Robb Sirat
NARD and IARP enthusiast
RobbSi
Lynne
Dartmouth High band parent and Cadets mom>>
Perhaps Madison could sell those shirts too!
Terri Dittrich
> NARD and IARP enthusiast
We sabotaged an attempt to make us do flag work in drum solo my last
year. They brought out the flags and three or four of us look the rest
of the hornline straight in the eyes and said "This better look like
sh*t, because we don't want to do it." You've never seen worse flag
work in your life.
I know it was naughty, but we had to do it. They already had us dancing
and doing tin soldier crap and we had horn banners hooked on our horns.
What was next? Face painting?
-Terri
GArmani42
someone to get off their lazy ass or go hug a family member to tell them i love
em. =0) i happen to think the author of this post was some idiot who decided
to write this while still faded from tokin up. <puff puff> and if anyone is
content with living, not knowing the next and how, you're not gonna live very
long. and while you are living not being sure of anything, you're gonna hate
it, having to guess your way through your entire pathetic, boring,
unpredictable life. so, what can you do? you get off your lazy butt, explore a
little, experiment a little, then plan a little. and wow, to sum it all up:
>The artist never entirely knows - we
>>guess.
this guy actually called himself an artist. LOL
darryl =0)
Robert Brown
>We sabotaged an attempt to make us do flag work in drum solo my last
>year. They brought out the flags and three or four of us look the rest
>of the hornline straight in the eyes and said "This better look like
>sh*t, because we don't want to do it." You've never seen worse flag
>work in your life.
>
Same thing happened with 83 Blue Devils when the horn line did streamer work
during the drum solo. The streamers lasted one show, Dayton Ohio.
Rob
Terri Dittrich
Of course, they got even with us, did I mention that?
They waited until the last show to exact their revenge. Ah, there were
some lovely people there and also some real pond scum, too.
-Terri
SplinterGr
Doesn't explain the physical act of breathing or walking very well....
>The moment you know how you begin to die a little
"They give birth astride of a grave. The light gleams an instant, then it's
night once more" - S Beckett: "Waiting for Godot"
So it's actually even BEFORE we know anything that we begin dying...
>The artist never entirely knows - we guess.
Nope. If I hire a lighting designer who goes into the process without knowing
PRECISELY what effect we're going for and how to achieve it, it will be a
costly mistake for me, and a career killer for him or her. We make adjustments
during the process, certainly, but I don't know any professional artist who
survives on guesswork.
Matt
Dennis E. Sparrow
>
>you know how you begin to die a little. The artist never entirely knows - we
>guess. We may be wrong, but will take leap after leap in the dark."
Many of you are probably wondering who actually wrote this wonderful piece of
literature, aren't you? Well, this afternoon I received a personal response
from a YEA spokesperson and have decided that it is worthy of posting here to
give you an idea as to the background of the person who wrote such a quote.
Here is the main body of his email.
Dennis...
I was just e-mailed a post you have done on RAMD. I would like to clarify
an issue. The Quote that was printed is not YEA!'s art concept or mission
statement. It is actually a quote taken from Eugene O'Neill.
Eugene (Gladstone) O'Neill was born in New York City on October 16, 1888.
O'Neill won the Nobel Prize for literature in 1936, and Pulitzer Prizes for
four of his plays: Beyond the Horizon (1920); Anna Christie (1922); Strange
Interlude (1928); and Long Day's Journey Into Night (1957). O'Neill is
credited with raising American dramatic theater from its narrow origins to
an art form respected around the world. He is regarded as America's premier
playwright.
O'Neill's father, James O'Neill, was one of 19th Century America's most
popular actors. Young Eugene spent much of his early years on national tours
with his father. In 1906 he entered Princeton University but was soon
expelled. In 1909 he married, and was divorced within three years. By 1912,
O'Neill had worked as a gold prospector in Honduras, as a seaman, and had
become a regular at New York City's flophouses and cheap saloons. That year
he became ill with tuberculosis, and was inspired to become a playwright
while reading during his recovery.
O'Neill's career as a playwright consisted of three periods. His early
realist plays utilize his own experiences, especially as a seaman. In the
1920s he rejected realism in an effort to capture on the stage the forces
behind human life. His expressionistic plays during this period were
influenced by the ideas of philosopher Freidrich Nietzsche, psychologists
Sigmund Freud and Carl Jung, and Swedish playwright August Strindberg.
During his final period O'Neill returned to realism. These later works,
which most critics consider his best, depend on his life experiences for
their story lines and themes.
O'Neill continued to write until 1944 when he was stricken with a
debilitating muscular disease which prevented further work. A revival of his
work in 1956 lead to the first production of Long Day's Journey Into Night,
for which he won his final Pulizer Prize posthumously in 1957.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
And to think that I just slammed the philosophy of a Nobel prize winner and four
time Pulitzer prize winner. Nonetheless, I truly believe in what I posted as a
counter thought to this famous playwright's statement. I would think that it
would be more appropriate for a proponent of drum corps to quote the founders
and leaders of this activity more so than some actor or playwright with an
unsure outlook on life. Actors, playwrights, Freud, and YEA. Do you think that
they all have something in common?
Dennis "In Step and Coming at You" Sparrow
Carlyjlj75
post...
This attack on YEA is entirely subjective on your perception of what
constitutes "art".
Just to make sure, first of all we are talking about drum corps as an activity
that integrates both aural and visual concepts. I'll give you a musical
perspective, just for fun...
>The artist never entirely knows - we
>guess.
Interpreting this as a musician, if someone asks me how to phrase a lyrical
passage, my response isn't a bit by bit detailed analysis of every mechanical
prccess involved in playing the horn. I use my artistic interpretation in
playing the music. If this appeals to the listener, then great. If it doesn't
make it for the listener, but in my opinion, is the greatest playing I ever
did, then I pack my stuff up and find a new gig.
Part of being a respected professional musician, is not compromising to the
limited standards set by others. If you're afraid to expand the norms and
standard acceptedness of an art form, then you just as well better stop living
the charade. If you want to defend and legitimize your art and compensate your
talent by fitting into a professional setting, maybe as an illuistrator for an
architectural firm, I think that falls under the label of artisitcal
prostiution.
>>Living is not being sure.
>Living is being *sure*. Its creats consistency in life, building a solid base
from which to explore personal talents. >
I call your little definition being dead or at least achored to a safety line,
conforming to your fitted place in society, accepting the course of life, and
not pushing the slightest to rise to a aesthetically higher level...in other
words being afraid of failure...
>The moment you know how, you have just begun to live.>
That's great if you keep striving to learn more how's and not settling for the
same old repertoire. In other words, pushing the limits - innovation -
creativity. If you already know how, then don't you think it's time to move on
to something new, or is it easier to just take the safe way out, and stick with
one established "how". Kind of boring...
.>The artist knows the limits of the medium.
Who sets these limits othe mediums? It's certainly not the artist. As an artist
you're never at the top of the game for long, that's why it's a constant work
in progress
.>The artist *knows* when a work is finished when adding a brush stroke, note
or
word can tell no more to no better result.
No artist is ever satisfied with their work. If they are, then they are giving
in to the predetermined levels of acceptedness.
>>Artists guess.
>People dont pay me to guess.
People don't pay true artists unless they're dead...ask Mozart or Mussorgsky,
or Schubert.
Enough venting, I need to go practice...
Please just keep in mind that YEA is an organization for the development of
young talent. Talent that otherwise might go unnoticed or be stifled to the
point of abandonment. Promote any organization that helps kids be creative.
And yes, drum corps is a creative process, especially the good old maroon and
gold, contrary to popular opinion...
C Johnson
BratDawg
Carlyjlj75 wrote:
> <the big snippola>
> C Johnson
Uhh....Clay?.....is that really you?....the medication kick in ole' buddy?
After all, I can't imagine anyone picking C.Johnson for a user name after you
elevated it to such great heights....
never mind....I think it's time to duck behind this wall....
Dennis E. Sparrow
Damn, beat me to that one too. At least I saw it this time.
Bad part of it is, I don't think that it's clay this time. Doh.
Dennis E. Sparrow
FrankAreMe wrote in message <199809010044...@ladder03.news.aol.com>...
>>And to think that I just slammed the philosophy of a Nobel prize winner and
>>four
>>time Pulitzer prize winner. Nonetheless, I truly believe in what I posted as
>>a
>>counter thought to this famous playwright's statement. I would think that it
>>would be more appropriate for a proponent of drum corps to quote the founders
>>and leaders of this activity more so than some actor or playwright with an
>>unsure outlook on life. Actors, playwrights, Freud, and YEA. Do you think
>>that
>>they all have something in common?
>>
>>Dennis "In Step and Coming at You" Sparrow
>>
>>
>
>to do with drum corps?
Nope. He did give me his edress if I had any questions.
>I think there's some kind of penalty for slamming dead Noble prize receipiants.
I hope not. Maybe I will never be able to use the title of "artist".
>Did you thank him for his cut and past from Encarta or whatever computer based
>encyclopedia was used in his reply?
LOL No. I guess I could have checked real quick. I have Encarta on CD.
>
>Frank
BratDawg
Dennis E. Sparrow wrote: .
> ...Bad part of it is, I don't think that it's clay this time. Doh.
Well if it is, we're talking *Major League* malfunctions here....and if not,
someone seriously needs to consider a name change. I think you're right
though...no two split personalities could be that diverse, could they????
Boy, you can't tell the Clays without a score card...
Steve
Brian Tingley
Dennis E. Sparrow wrote:
> NOTI...@aol.com wrote in message ...
> >Here is YEA's art concept:
> >
> >"Living is a form of not being sure, not knowing the next and how. The moment
> >you know how you begin to die a little. The artist never entirely knows - we
> >guess. We may be wrong, but will take leap after leap in the dark."
>
> Many of you are probably wondering who actually wrote this wonderful piece of
> literature, aren't you? Well, this afternoon I received a personal response
> from a YEA spokesperson and have decided that it is worthy of posting here to
> give you an idea as to the background of the person who wrote such a quote.
> Here is the main body of his email.
>
> <snip>
>
> O'Neill's father, James O'Neill, was one of 19th Century America's most
> popular actors. Young Eugene spent much of his early years on national tours
> with his father. In 1906 he entered Princeton University but was soon
> expelled. In 1909 he married, and was divorced within three years. By 1912,
> O'Neill had worked as a gold prospector in Honduras, as a seaman, and had
> become a regular at New York City's flophouses and cheap saloons. That year
> he became ill with tuberculosis, and was inspired to become a playwright
> while reading during his recovery.
Expelled, divorced, regular at flop houses... are we supposed to hold this up as a
career path or a role model?
> <n'other snip>
>
> His expressionistic plays during this period were
> influenced by the ideas of philosopher Freidrich Nietzsche, psychologists
> Sigmund Freud and Carl Jung, and Swedish playwright August Strindberg.
> During his final period O'Neill returned to realism. These later works,
> which most critics consider his best, depend on his life experiences for
> their story lines and themes.
Excuse me... Freud? Nietzsche? Jung? Ummm.... again, why would you pick the
mentally unbalanced as role models?
<n'other snip>
then back to Dennis
> And to think that I just slammed the philosophy of a Nobel prize winner and four
> time Pulitzer prize winner. Nonetheless, I truly believe in what I posted as a
> counter thought to this famous playwright's statement. I would think that it
> would be more appropriate for a proponent of drum corps to quote the founders
> and leaders of this activity more so than some actor or playwright with an
> unsure outlook on life. Actors, playwrights, Freud, and YEA. Do you think that
> they all have something in common?
>
> Dennis "In Step and Coming at You" Sparrow
Right on, Dennis.
Onward to Madison, and in our right minds
Brian Tingley
MelloDad
sai...@one.net
>
>We sabotaged an attempt to make us do flag work in drum solo my last
>year. They brought out the flags and three or four of us look the rest
>of the hornline straight in the eyes and said "This better look like
>sh*t, because we don't want to do it." You've never seen worse flag
>work in your life.
>
>I know it was naughty, but we had to do it. They already had us dancing
>and doing tin soldier crap and we had horn banners hooked on our horns.
>What was next? Face painting?
>
>-Terri
The idea for the facepainting got canned after they turned down my idea of the
skateboards and windsurfers...(i.e. Right after that big spike in Coors sales
in '77)
Michael
FrankAreMe
>four
>time Pulitzer prize winner. Nonetheless, I truly believe in what I posted as
>a
>counter thought to this famous playwright's statement. I would think that it
>would be more appropriate for a proponent of drum corps to quote the founders
>and leaders of this activity more so than some actor or playwright with an
>unsure outlook on life. Actors, playwrights, Freud, and YEA. Do you think
>that
>they all have something in common?
>
>Dennis "In Step and Coming at You" Sparrow
>
>
Did he ever get around to explaining just what the quote and O'Niell's life had
to do with drum corps?
I think there's some kind of penalty for slamming dead Noble prize receipiants.
Did you thank him for his cut and past from Encarta or whatever computer based
encyclopedia was used in his reply?
Frank
Terri Dittrich
>
> NOTI...@aol.com wrote in message ...
> >Here is YEA's art concept:
> >
> >"Living is a form of not being sure, not knowing the next and how. The moment
> >you know how you begin to die a little. The artist never entirely knows - we
> >guess. We may be wrong, but will take leap after leap in the dark."
>
> Many of you are probably wondering who actually wrote this wonderful piece of
> literature, aren't you? Well, this afternoon I received a personal response
> from a YEA spokesperson and have decided that it is worthy of posting here to
> give you an idea as to the background of the person who wrote such a quote.
> Here is the main body of his email.
>
>
> I was just e-mailed a post you have done on RAMD. I would like to clarify
> an issue. The Quote that was printed is not YEA!'s art concept or mission
> statement. It is actually a quote taken from Eugene O'Neill.
>
> Eugene (Gladstone) O'Neill was born in New York City on October 16, 1888.
> O'Neill won the Nobel Prize for literature in 1936, and Pulitzer Prizes for
> four of his plays: Beyond the Horizon (1920); Anna Christie (1922); Strange
> Interlude (1928); and Long Day's Journey Into Night (1957). O'Neill is
> credited with raising American dramatic theater from its narrow origins to
> an art form respected around the world. He is regarded as America's premier
> playwright.
>
> popular actors. Young Eugene spent much of his early years on national tours
> with his father. In 1906 he entered Princeton University but was soon
> expelled. In 1909 he married, and was divorced within three years. By 1912,
> O'Neill had worked as a gold prospector in Honduras, as a seaman, and had
> become a regular at New York City's flophouses and cheap saloons. That year
> he became ill with tuberculosis, and was inspired to become a playwright
> while reading during his recovery.
>
> realist plays utilize his own experiences, especially as a seaman. In the
> 1920s he rejected realism in an effort to capture on the stage the forces
> influenced by the ideas of philosopher Freidrich Nietzsche, psychologists
> Sigmund Freud and Carl Jung, and Swedish playwright August Strindberg.
> During his final period O'Neill returned to realism. These later works,
> which most critics consider his best, depend on his life experiences for
> their story lines and themes.
>
> debilitating muscular disease which prevented further work. A revival of his
> work in 1956 lead to the first production of Long Day's Journey Into Night,
> for which he won his final Pulizer Prize posthumously in 1957.
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ------
>
> time Pulitzer prize winner. Nonetheless, I truly believe in what I posted as a
> counter thought to this famous playwright's statement. I would think that it
> would be more appropriate for a proponent of drum corps to quote the founders
> and leaders of this activity more so than some actor or playwright with an
> unsure outlook on life. Actors, playwrights, Freud, and YEA. Do you think that
> they all have something in common?
>
> Dennis "In Step and Coming at You" Sparrow
No, because this isn't Oprah's book club or her play club. This is drum
corps. I guess someone has gone into the business of scaring away the
people who don't memorize works of Eugene O'Neill. Well, good luck to
ya!
I'll start looking for obscure passages from Plutarch so we can post
them as our mission statement. We've all memorize the works of the
ancient greek historian, have we?
-Terri
MJPUDSTER
Hey, Dennis, what's his point? "I think therefore I am", or could it be that
"If the Cadets performed a show in a forest, and nobody came, would it still be
boring?"
I think it migh have something to do with not liking your father.
Doug Luberts
<gmen...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>I'll start looking for obscure passages from Plutarch so we can post
>them as our mission statement. We've all memorize the works of the
>ancient greek historian, have we?
>
>
>
>-Terri
>
Okay, how about:
``It ill becomes you,'' replied Demaratus, ``to be so solicitous about
Greece, when you have involved your own house in so many dissensions
and calamities.''
or
``O my son, look thee out a kingdom equal to and worthy of thyself,
for Macedonia is too little for thee.'' (Which kind of sounds a
little too much like "Go West, young man.")
Actually, I'll settle on the words of Tennyson for a mission
statement:
"To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield"
from "Ulysses"
Doug
*****************************************************
Bridgemen.Com - Where Drum Corps is STILL fun!
http://www.bridgemen.com
mailto://webm...@bridgemen.com
*****************************************************
Jeff Wise
Carlyjlj75 wrote:
> >The moment you know how, you have just begun to live.>
>
> That's great if you keep striving to learn more how's and not settling for the
> same old repertoire. In other words, pushing the limits - innovation -
> creativity. If you already know how, then don't you think it's time to move on
> to something new, or is it easier to just take the safe way out, and stick with
> one established "how". Kind of boring...
Wow, so the day I became potty-trained and decided not to move on to another form
of taking care of *that" business I became boring?
And to think all these years... What about eating with utensils?
Then again, to be less sarcastic, it took me 3 years odf drum corps to unteach what
my band director had taught me about brass playing. Once I got the correct hang of
things, I sure as heck didn't go trying to change that.
Another point, it took me a long time to learn how to play 3-against-2 on the
piano, but I finally got it and used it as written in a number of pieces, am I
supposed to keep trying to figure out other ways of playing such a thing?
> .>The artist knows the limits of the medium.
>
> Who sets these limits othe mediums? It's certainly not the artist. As an artist
> you're never at the top of the game for long, that's why it's a constant work
> in progress
Huh? What can't an artist set a limit to a medium? And why is an artist not at the
top of the game for very long? I don't understand these statements at all, they may
apply to the "famous" most-quoted artists from whatever mediums, but it certainly,
by no stretch, applies consistently all the time.
> .>The artist *knows* when a work is finished when adding a brush stroke, note
> or
> word can tell no more to no better result.
>
> No artist is ever satisfied with their work. If they are, then they are giving
> in to the predetermined levels of acceptedness.
Poppycock. I have read about plenty of artists who have been rather impressed with
their work and the state of "finished" it was in when they completed it. Stop with
all these glittering generalities. A few examples does not make a law, it may make
a hypothesis and maybe even a theory.
And all this Arby's Horseradish sauce about "giving in to the predetermined levels
of acceptedness" just what in the blue blazings of Colonel Potter does that mean?
> >>Artists guess.
> >People dont pay me to guess.
>
> People don't pay true artists unless they're dead...ask Mozart or Mussorgsky,
> or Schubert.
Double and triple huh? Someone is not a "true artist" if they are paid before they
die? I guess that cans just about every composer there ever was, including all
those dudes that YEA! loves to use. Holsinger, Copland, Bernstein, Reed, heck even
Metheny. All these people got paid before they died for their art. Are they only
true artists after they croaked (poor Pat!)?
> Please just keep in mind that YEA is an organization for the development of
> young talent. Talent that otherwise might go unnoticed or be stifled to the
> point of abandonment. Promote any organization that helps kids be creative.
> And yes, drum corps is a creative process, especially the good old maroon and
> gold, contrary to popular opinion...
> C Johnson
You really think so? YEA! is trying to develop young talent? How much young talent
have they developed in the inner cities of Jersey that they've touted about here
and there? From everything YEA! has mentioned, said and posted ain't no kid from
the inner city been developed yet.
YEA!'s real good at developing money, I'll give them that. Furthermore, are the
members of Cadets really being helped to be more creative when they are not allowed
to participate in I&E? If some Cadet member decided that going 16 counts right
instead of left would be more creative because his artistic sense told him so,
would he be encouraged to follow that thought?
As if...
Jeff Wise
--
*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^
I have a spelling checker, it came with my PC.
It plainly marks for my revue, mistakes I cannot sea.
I've run this poem threw it, I'm sure your please to no,
Its letter perfect in it's weigh, my checker tolled me sew.
^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^
ScribeToo
so.... what have you got against Dennis' father???
lol..
(*)Stef
Dennis E. Sparrow
ScribeToo wrote in message <199809010619...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
I don't think that he was referring to *my* father. I loved my father BTW. He
graduated from Vandercook School of Music and played trumpet in the big bands
along with numerous greats. He even had his own local big band called "Tom
Sparrow and the Bluebirds". They rocked. I have two unplayed original master
recordings of his works. He was also music director at Western Illinois
University in Macomb for 16 years and taught high school band for 18 years after
that. He had never seen a drum corps show until shortly before he died. My
mother talked him into flying out to Denver in '78 to watch me march my first
finals in a Kiltie uniform.
Dennis E. Sparrow
MJPUDSTER
>>>I think it migh have something to do with not liking your father.
>>
>>so.... what have you got against Dennis' father???
>>
>>lol..
>>
>>(*)Stef
>
>I don't think that he was referring to *my* father. I loved my father BTW.
I was referring to the "Generic" father. Not the "Geriatric" father.
Mike
Brian Tingley
Terri Dittrich wrote:
> <major snip>
>
>
> I'll start looking for obscure passages from Plutarch so we can post
> them as our mission statement. We've all memorize the works of the
> ancient greek historian, have we?
>
> -Terri
The only ancient greek I ever paid attention to was Jimmy the Greek in Vegas. Then
there was Nick the Greek, inventor of the Bloody Ceasar cocktail. But Plutarch? Isn't
that Mickey Mouses dog?
Yours for higher education
Brian Tingley
MelloDad
ScribeToo
>>
>>lol..
>>
>>(*)Stef
>
>I don't think that he was referring to *my* father.
Dennis.. baby.. snookums.. schweety...
IT WAS A JOKE!!
sheesh..
(*)Stef
Terri Dittrich
who basically wrote of domestic tragedy and people who were social
misfits figures into the mission of drum corps, I must thank you for the
opportunity to catch up on some reading. Here is something I read about
Eugene OąNeill:
"Despite the seriousness and theatrical brilliance of many of OąNeilląs
plays, much of his symbolism is obscure, and his innovations in the
stagecraft often do not achieve the desired effects. In addition, the
language of his characters has been criticized for lapses into banality
and bathos at many of the most compelling moments of his play."
Banal : hackneyed, trite.
Bathos: 1. a descent from the lofty to the commonplace in discourse;
anticlimax. 2. Insincere pathos; sentimentality.
-Terri
Terri Dittrich
Well, Pluto is the dog, but what is Goofy? A more puzzling question was
never asked by O'Neill or Plutarch.
-Terri
Terri Dittrich
>
> Terri Dittrich <gmen...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
> >
> > Well, Pluto is the dog, but what is Goofy? A more puzzling question was
> > never asked by O'Neill or Plutarch.
> >
> > -Terri
>
> Heh...
Now there's a puzzling question. Why did he? hmmm...
>
> --
> Ron in Vegas
> mailto:ron.a...@att.net
>
> "Because there was always something about the Skyliners....and that
> music..."
> - Donnie Solinger
>
> Corpsreps.com - The Drum Corps Repertoire Database
> http://www.corpsreps.com
-Terri
Terri Dittrich
>
> Terri Dittrich <gmen...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
> > Ron Allard wrote:
> > >
> > > Terri Dittrich <gmen...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Well, Pluto is the dog, but what is Goofy? A more puzzling question was
> > > > never asked by O'Neill or Plutarch.
> > > >
> > > > -Terri
> > >
> > > Why did Mickey Mouse divorce Minnie Mouse?
> >
> > > Heh...
> >
> > Now there's a puzzling question. Why did he? hmmm...
>
> Heh...
>
> --
> Ron in Vegas
> mailto:ron.a...@att.net
>
> "Because there was always something about the Skyliners....and that
> music..."
> - Donnie Solinger
>
> Corpsreps.com - The Drum Corps Repertoire Database
> http://www.corpsreps.com
-Terri
Bob E.
Terri Dittrich wrote:
> Ron Allard wrote:
> >
> > Terri Dittrich <gmen...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Well, Pluto is the dog, but what is Goofy? A more puzzling question was
> > > never asked by O'Neill or Plutarch.
> > >
> > > -Terri
> >
> > Why did Mickey Mouse divorce Minnie Mouse?
>
> > Heh...
>
> Now there's a puzzling question. Why did he? hmmm...
> >
> > --
> > Ron in Vegas
> > mailto:ron.a...@att.net
> >
> > "Because there was always something about the Skyliners....and that
> > music..."
> > - Donnie Solinger
> >
> > Corpsreps.com - The Drum Corps Repertoire Database
> > http://www.corpsreps.com
>
> -Terri
Terri Dittrich
>
> I thought like they just shared a condo together ????
Yeah, that's right! They were together in that little cartoon house in
Mickey's Toon Town at WDW. 8:-) Like my mouse ears?
-Terri
MJPUDSTER
>Here is something I read about
>Eugene OąNeill:
>
>"Despite the seriousness and theatrical brilliance of many of OąNeilląs plays,
much of his symbolism is obscure, and his innovations in the stagecraft often
do not achieve the desired effects. In addition, the language of his
characters has been criticized for lapses into banality and bathos at many of
the most compelling moments of his play."
>
>Banal : hackneyed, trite.
>
>Bathos: 1. a descent from the lofty to the commonplace in discourse;
>anticlimax. 2. Insincere pathos; sentimentality.
>
Do you suppose the person reviewing O'Neill was confused and was actually
talking about the state of most Junior Drum Corps.............Ah, bland food
for thought!!!!
BTW, thanks, Terri for doing another fine job of research. And who says RAMD
and YEA isn't educational.
Dennis E. Sparrow
>>From: "Dennis E. Sparrow"
>
>>>>I think it migh have something to do with not liking your father.
>>>
>>>
>>>lol..
>>>
>>>(*)Stef
>>
>
>
>I was referring to the "Generic" father. Not the "Geriatric" father.
>
>Mike
>
Dennis E. Sparrow
ScribeToo wrote in message <199809011602...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
>>>so.... what have you got against Dennis' father???
>>>
>>>lol..
>>>
>>>(*)Stef
>>
>>I don't think that he was referring to *my* father.
>
>
>IT WAS A JOKE!!
>
>sheesh..
>
>(*)Stef
I knew that.
Dennis "Schweet Baby Snookums" Sparrow
Jeff Wise
> never asked by O'Neill or Plutarch.
>
> -Terri
Goofy is definitely a dog. If anyone ever got to DisneyQuest (hugely recommended by the way)
and tried out their Animation Academy class things, this mystery is duly solved.
I took the class with my dentist bud, Davebob, though he had to be silly and demand to be
taught how to draw Baloo before joining the class. The instructor relented as the rest of us
normal people got to learn how to draw Goofy.
Anyhow, long story short, in the course of drawing Goofy's hat, it was revealed that his hat
is really a take off of a dog bone because "as we all know, Goofy is a dog." Straight from
the instructor's mouth.
Not that many of you really cared to read about this in the first place, but the greater
challenge then is to relate Goofy back to YEA!
How about the notion that Goofy yuks a lot and is well-intentioned but generally gets silly
results from his shenanigans?
Jeff Wise
> Heh...
Come now nice people of RAMD. Mickey and Minnie were never married. Even if
you look through all the merchandise, the best you'll get is the two of them
dressed for a wedding, but they've never tied the knot.
The same goes for Donald and Daisy (wouldn't it be nice if Donald would
someday start wearing pants????).
However, a bigger, more profound question arises: Who's the father and mother
of Mickey's nephews (is it Mortimer and Marty? 'Course Mortimer being Mickey's
original name until Mrs. Disney interceded)?
And,
Why are huey, Dewey and Louie nephews to both Donald and Daisy? Hopefully, in
some twisted way Donald and Daisy ain't brother and sister otherwise their
dating would be an unholy tryst benefitting none other than YEA!, er Satan
himself.
Okay, before anyone flys off the handle, the aforementioned reference to YEA!
was intended only to keep the subject header somewhat related and in no manner
whatsoever reflects my belief that YEA! is equal to Satan or Disney for that
matter.
fran...@nospamconcentric.net
wrote:
>> Why did Mickey Mouse divorce Minnie Mouse?
>> Heh...
>
>Come now nice people of RAMD. Mickey and Minnie were never married. Even if
>you look through all the merchandise, the best you'll get is the two of them
>dressed for a wedding, but they've never tied the knot.
>
>The same goes for Donald and Daisy (wouldn't it be nice if Donald would
>someday start wearing pants????).
>
>However, a bigger, more profound question arises: Who's the father and mother
>of Mickey's nephews (is it Mortimer and Marty? 'Course Mortimer being Mickey's
>original name until Mrs. Disney interceded)?
>
>And,
>
>Why are huey, Dewey and Louie nephews to both Donald and Daisy? Hopefully, in
>some twisted way Donald and Daisy ain't brother and sister otherwise their
>dating would be an unholy tryst benefitting none other than YEA!, er Satan
>himself.
>
WOW! You know you're right! What a demoralizingly revolting
development this is! Imagine living in a country where such things
occur with such frequency. We'd better get to the bottom of this or
we're doomed!. Has anyone contacted Kenneth Starr?
f
Please remove NO SPAM to reply
GArmani42
the conclusion that disney is just one huge incestuous family! =0)
RobbSi
-Terri>.
I thought 1978 Crossmen drums looked cool w/ painted faces, BUT...but they were
drumming too.
-- Robb Sirat
NARD and IARP enthusiast
Terri Dittrich
>
> In article <35EAF5...@worldnet.att.net>, Terri Dittrich <gmen...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
> >
> >We sabotaged an attempt to make us do flag work in drum solo my last
> >of the hornline straight in the eyes and said "This better look like
> >sh*t, because we don't want to do it." You've never seen worse flag
> >work in your life.
> >
> >I know it was naughty, but we had to do it. They already had us dancing
> >and doing tin soldier crap and we had horn banners hooked on our horns.
> >What was next? Face painting?
> >
> >-Terri
>
> The idea for the facepainting got canned after they turned down my idea of the
> skateboards and windsurfers...(i.e. Right after that big spike in Coors sales
> in '77)
>
> Michael
I would have been compelled to tear up his McDonalds napkins with the
drill written on it.
-Terri
Terri Dittrich
>
> i can't believe you are all having this discussion. why don't we all just make
> the conclusion that disney is just one huge incestuous family! =0)
It's a sick world, after all! add your own music.
;-)
-Terri
Carlyjlj75
Your opinions are interesting, but my definition of art doesn't include
learning how to take a shit, or using utensils to eat.
- No matter how creatively you do either.
Of course that is my own subjective aproach to what I consider to be artistic!
Many would disagree!!
I originally meant to link creativity with art. I know I might have gone a
little overboard on the "flowery" wording, but I was thinking of how artistic
ability (including musical talent) is labeled as a gifted angle of
intelligence.
As for the exploration of hemiolas, if you proceed beyond the basic 3:2 O Reed
feel and delve into polyrhythms through mixed meter and other notational
treats, then no, it wouldn't be boring
>am I supposed to keep trying to figure out other ways of playing such a
thing?
YES!!!! OK, so there is only one way to play 3:2, but the concept of 3:2 can be
applied in an array of compositional techniques, as I am sure you would attest
to.
Limits to a medium - I just meant that any creative form is a continuing
process. For example, Leonard Bernstein composed WSS in the fifties, but he
wasn't washed up, finished, content to sit back and watch the big bucks come
rolling in. He moved forward as an artist to take on more projects and branch
out into other creative endeavors.
> No artist is ever satisfied with their work.
If an artist was truly satisfied with their accomplishment, then what would be
their motivation for further work?
I guess in an art form like painting, when it's done, it's done, but does this
idea carry across into music? Maybe in composition, especially if you write in
ink, but not in performance.
> People don't pay true artists unless they're dead...ask Mozart or Mussorgsky,
or Schubert.
>Double and triple huh? Someone is not a "true artist" if they are paid before
they
die? I guess that cans just about every composer there ever was, including
all those dudes that YEA! loves to use. Holsinger, Copland, Bernstein, Reed,
heck
even Metheny. All these people got paid before they died for their art. Are
they
only true artists after they croaked (poor Pat!)?>
In the contemporary genres, who outside of a trained musician, or DCI
enthusiast would regonize the names and works of Holsinger, Sparke, Van der
Roost, de Meij, Stamp, Camphouse, Nelson, Tichelli, or even Grainger? I bet
that David Holsinger gets hounded by thousands of autograph seeking fans as he
walks down the street. If he did get paid good money for his work, don't you
think he would be able to finance a halfway decent recording project for his
wind ensemble works? The college ensembles that play his music on recordings
are hideous! (It may be copyright laws, or contract infringements, or maybe
conductors just don't like the man or whatever, but I would die to hear an
ensemble like Tokyo Kosei or even CCM or Illinoise record Holsinger! - Are
there any out there?
>You really think so? YEA! is trying to develop young talent?
Yes.
>are the members of Cadets really being helped to be more creative when they
are not
allowed to participate in I&E?
This is a stupid topic. If you sign your entire summer away to play in a drum
corps, you're not going to be concentrating on playing Carnival of Venice on a
soprano bugle in the key of G!!!!!!!! It's reality that half the members of any
CBC hornline are usually college music majors who know the ins and outs of
their horns. Having played juries, recitals, ect.. it's a big let-down to miss
standing up there on stage for a couple hundred even a thousand people, when
for finals, you perform in front of 30-40,000 people. There are bigger goals
than being recognized as the "best" soprano soloist of 1975.
Interesting ideas -
C (Not Clay ,sorry everyone!) Johnson
Seikotch
that explains what they are.
Antunes wrote:
> NOTI...@aol.com wrote:
> >
> > Here is YEA's art concept:
> >
> > "Living is a form of not being sure, not knowing the next and how. The moment
> > you know how you begin to die a little. The artist never entirely knows - we
> > guess. We may be wrong, but will take leap after leap in the dark."
> >
> Is this what is printed on the blue Stonehenge t-shirt?
>
> Lynne
> Dartmouth High band parent and Cadets mom
Antunes
Lynne
FrankAreMe
>I thought 1978 Crossmen drums looked cool w/ painted faces, BUT...but they
>were
>drumming too.
>
>-- Robb Sirat
> NARD and IARP enthusiast
yes they did and Hopkins never looked better in his life.
Brian Tingley
Terri Dittrich wrote:
Could this be the vast right wing conspiracy Hillary was telling us about?
Legitimizing incest (Donald/Daisy) and nudism (no pants Donald) through cartoons?
Could Clay be right? Is the medium of cartoons the only way children are able to
learn?
With boggled mind,
Brian Tingley
MelloDad
Terri Dittrich
his leg a little. You know "Thanks for helping the nice lady" stuff.
-Terri
Jeff Wise
Carlyjlj75 wrote:
> For Jeff, especially...
> Your opinions are interesting, but my definition of art doesn't include
> learning how to take a shit, or using utensils to eat.
> - No matter how creatively you do either.
That's exactly the point, your definition of art is different than others. It
appears that your definition and mine are rather different, but who is to say which
definition is correct?
I will utilize my trusty Merriam Webster's Collegiate Dictionary (tenth edition):
art 1: skill acquired by experience, study or observation 2: a branch of learning
3: an occupation requiring knowledge or skill 4: the conscious use of skill and
creative imagination esp. in the production of aesthetic objects
This is the basis of my definition of art, which was further shaped from my
Aesthetics class I took about 5 years ago, plus whatever else I have picked up from
reading, observing and listening.
> Of course that is my own subjective aproach to what I consider to be artistic!
> Many would disagree!!
Yes, I believe we will end up agreeing to disagree.
> Limits to a medium - I just meant that any creative form is a continuing
> process. For example, Leonard Bernstein composed WSS in the fifties, but he
> wasn't washed up, finished, content to sit back and watch the big bucks come
> rolling in. He moved forward as an artist to take on more projects and branch
> out into other creative endeavors.
> If an artist was truly satisfied with their accomplishment, then what would be
> their motivation for further work?
It's not so much that Bernstein was satisfied with WSS and then thought, "Hey, what
do I have left to accomplish?", rather I believe (whether this was actually his
thought process) he looked at WSS, thought it was good and decided to look at other
things.
Yes, this is moving forward, but I don't think a level of dissatisfaction with WSS
led him to compose Mass. In fact, we know so if we read the liner notes. Mass was
commissioned to open the (I believe) Kennedy Center in DC.
Whoops, what do we have there? Bernstein was paid a sum of money to create a work
to commemorate the opening of an arts center.
> In the contemporary genres, who outside of a trained musician, or DCI
> enthusiast would regonize the names and works of Holsinger, Sparke, Van der
> Roost, de Meij, Stamp, Camphouse, Nelson, Tichelli, or even Grainger?
Well, I think lots of people know who Grainger is without really knowing who
Grainger is, but that's a different discussion.
> I bet
> that David Holsinger gets hounded by thousands of autograph seeking fans as he
> walks down the street. If he did get paid good money for his work, don't you
> think he would be able to finance a halfway decent recording project for his
> wind ensemble works? The college ensembles that play his music on recordings
> are hideous! (It may be copyright laws, or contract infringements, or maybe
> conductors just don't like the man or whatever, but I would die to hear an
> ensemble like Tokyo Kosei or even CCM or Illinoise record Holsinger! - Are
> there any out there?
First off, you moved off on a tangent with this part of the debate. You originally
said artists don't get paid unless they are dead. Now you're talking about artists
don't get paid enough (Holsinger).
Therefore, I assume that you are backing off the statement that artists don't get
paid.
Which, if we go back to Ken Mazur's original statement where he equated not knowing
one's art means no pay, we see that really all through time the majority of artists
were indeed concerned about money or at least subsistence.
Mozart frequently composed stuff to get money, many other composers took jobs as
court musicians to earn their room and board. Picasso was satirized by Saturday
Night Live for signing meal tabs and making little "throw-away drawings" in order
to pay for his meals.
Being an artist and working in whatever medium as many famous artists have attested
wasn't necessarily a choice as it was a calling - they felt the need to create and
do what they do. But at the same time, if they don't have a way to pay for food and
a non-leaking roof, then their ability to create their art is severely hampered.
Point is, money has been and will always be inextricably linked to artists.
> >You really think so? YEA! is trying to develop young talent?
> Yes.
I'm still undecided at this point and I'll use my previous example again. If YEA!
was serious about developing young talent, what happens if a mello player decides
their drill move in the 2nd tune would be better if they took path XY instead of
path AB that was given them by the visual staff?
Would this mello player be allowed to speak their mind, present their case and then
encouraged to come up with different ideas for making that particular part of the
drill work?
I don't think so. The visual team would tell that person they are wrong and force
them to do the drill as they see fit, because it is their design.
Would the visual team later pull this person aside and ask them why they thought
that way and try to see if the person had a valid idea? I think not again.
No, of course that's not how a drum corps tries to develop members, but if you
listen to the YEA!-speak that's handed out and take them for their word, then this
should be something they do.
> This is a stupid topic. If you sign your entire summer away to play in a drum
> corps, you're not going to be concentrating on playing Carnival of Venice on a
> soprano bugle in the key of G!!!!!!!! It's reality that half the members of any
> CBC hornline are usually college music majors who know the ins and outs of
> their horns. Having played juries, recitals, ect.. it's a big let-down to miss
> standing up there on stage for a couple hundred even a thousand people, when
> for finals, you perform in front of 30-40,000 people. There are bigger goals
> than being recognized as the "best" soprano soloist of 1975.
Okay, I still have major problems with this part of the debate. Other corps have
strongly encouraged their members to participate in I&E, they also have a high
number of music majors in their ranks. Cadets are different from this how?
Further, it doesn't matter that a member has to attempt to play whatever piece they
choose in a key of G bugle. If someone is a music major they should have the talent
and ability to play any type of instrument in any situation. I don't accept the
argument that the bugles in G are what detracts from playing in I&E - that is a
Hopkins-fueled argument that tries to end-run people in thinking that the activity
needs to change instrumentation.
Hogwash and triple Arby's horseradish sauce.
I have heard many people play a bugle with wonderful sound and quality. Also, what
about the guard people and percussion players? They are not dealing with bugles
pitched in G, why can't they decide to do I&E?
Moving on with this part. I don't quite understand your statement about playing
juries, recitals and being a let down to miss being on stage for a 100 or 1,000
people when finals is 30,000 (which there hasn't been 30K people in this decade at
Finals). If you could further clarify that a bit?
Now, I&E isn't about trying to be the best soprano soloist in 1975. It's about
finding more performance opportunities. In a drum corps, a horn player is 1 person
out of 120+. I&E's give them a chance to perform by themselves, to explore their
own personal performance abilities and talents. To some it is about ego, but not to
all. Further, it's not all just soloists, there are many ensembles who play. What a
challenge it is be to musicians to put together a quartet or what not and try to
tackle some piece and make it sound great!
Why, I think something like that helps to develop them as musicians, as people, as
members of a drum corps. A novel idea, to develop the performance and playing
abilities of the members of a drum corps!
My feeling is that Cadets simply do not want to take away practice time from the
corps or encourage individuality, therefore no one goes to I&E. I don't accept the
excuses that Hopkins threw out here on RAMD in the past, because they are nothing
but excuses.
Therefore, I do not think, by any stretch, that I&E's are a stupid topic. It has
plenty of merit and can provide that much more education and growth to any member
of a drum corps. Despite the Hopkins/YEA!-speak that says otherwise.
To close, I appreciate your candid and thoughtful responses and the ability to
debate these topics without resorting to emotional outbursts.
James Christian
> Could this be the vast right wing conspiracy Hillary was telling us about?
> Legitimizing incest (Donald/Daisy) and nudism (no pants Donald) through cartoons?
> Could Clay be right? Is the medium of cartoons the only way children are able to
> learn?
Well, the cartoons are all that's left! They're not getting an education from public
schools, and they're not being taught how to drum in drum corps, so Disney &
Schoolhouse Rock might be the last refuge for those inclined to get an education. For
the rest of the kids who don't watch them, they can just go through life being unsure
of themselves, a little bit of them dying every time they begin to understand
something.
Rudimentally yours,
James Christian
mda...@ets.org
wise...@bellsouth.net wrote:
>
>
>
> Which, if we go back to Ken Mazur's original statement where he equated not
knowing
> one's art means no pay, we see that really all through time the majority of
artists
> were indeed concerned about money or at least subsistence.
>
> Mozart frequently composed stuff to get money,
Heck, Mozart would walk into a bar and compose a drinking song on the spot,
just for the free drinks!!!
> many other composers took jobs as
> court musicians to earn their room and board.
Look at Haydn as a prime example of THAT.
> Being an artist and working in whatever medium as many famous artists have
attested
> wasn't necessarily a choice as it was a calling - they felt the need to create
and
> do what they do. But at the same time, if they don't have a way to pay for
food and
> a non-leaking roof, then their ability to create their art is severely
hampered.
>
Look at how young Mozart was when he died. Think of all the music we DON'T
have of his, as he died so young!
> I'm still undecided at this point and I'll use my previous example again. If
YEA!
> was serious about developing young talent, what happens if a mello player
decides
> their drill move in the 2nd tune would be better if they took path XY instead
of
> path AB that was given them by the visual staff?
>
Well, it all depends, as in most things. You could also say, why not let the
mello player play a D# instead of a Db, if they so choose. The 'art' is
involved in perfecting/communicating through performance what they been
given, be it music or drill. Sure, they aren't CREATING the arrangements or
drill, but they ARE attempting to PERFORM them as artists. By your example,
ANYONE who performs a published work is not an artist.
> Other corps have
> strongly encouraged their members to participate in I&E, they also have a high
> number of music majors in their ranks. Cadets are different from this how?
>
Well, the kids who join the CBC do so with their eyes open, I'm sure. They
know exactly what the parameters are when they join. You and I may disagree
with a particular decision (as I do in this case), but that's the way it is
in the CBC regarding I&E. They aren't hiding anything, as far as I can see.
> Further, it doesn't matter that a member has to attempt to play whatever piece
they
> choose in a key of G bugle. If someone is a music major they should have the
talent
> and ability to play any type of instrument in any situation.
That's an odd statement. I was a music major, and I got many thanks when I put
down my violin bow. Plus, all of the animals in a 10 mile radius stopped
howling and meowing. :-)
>
> I have heard many people play a bugle with wonderful sound and quality. Also,
what
> about the guard people and percussion players? They are not dealing with
bugles
> pitched in G, why can't they decide to do I&E?
>
Sometimes 'because' IS the answer! :-)
>
> .....Why, I think something like that helps to develop them as musicians, as
people, as
> members of a drum corps. A novel idea, to develop the performance and playing
> abilities of the members of a drum corps!
>
The fact that I agree with every one of your comments about the positives of
I&E makes not one bit of difference. It's just the way of the CBC.
Interesting commentary between both of you!
Sorry for butting in.
Mike, Garfield 70-72
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum
Jeff Wise
mda...@ets.org wrote:
> Well, the kids who join the CBC do so with their eyes open, I'm sure. They
> know exactly what the parameters are when they join. You and I may disagree
> with a particular decision (as I do in this case), but that's the way it is
> in the CBC regarding I&E. They aren't hiding anything, as far as I can see.
I agree, CBC is not hiding anything from the members as they have said they know
from the get go that they will not have the opportunities to do I&E.
My quibble is the reasons Hopkins and others have stated as to why they don't allow
I&E. Ranging from the competition garbage to the CBC as a whole spiel. No one, to
date, has ever given a clear cut, reasonable reason for not allowing Cadets to do
I&E.
Then for someone to jump on here and say that 1) I&E is a stupid topic and 2) talk
about why it is allegedly not a good thing, I have real problems.
Otherwise, I agree with you Mike wholeheartedly about your contributions as well.
Michael Cahill
> Dennis...
>
> I was just e-mailed a post you have done on RAMD. I would like to clarify
> an issue. The Quote that was printed is not YEA!'s art concept or mission
> statement. It is actually a quote taken from Eugene O'Neill.
Why is it credited on the YEA site to Agnes DeMille then?
--
Michael Cahill
"Integrity without knowledge is weak and useless,
and knowledge without integrity is dangerous and dreadful" Samuel Johnson.
Michael Cahill
> Part of being a respected professional musician, is not compromising to the
> limited standards set by others.
Partly true. Aren't musicians trained to standards in colleges and
conservatories that can be labeled limited?
> If you want to defend and legitimize your art and compensate your
> talent by fitting into a professional setting, maybe as an illuistrator for an
> architectural firm, I think that falls under the label of artisitcal
> prostiution.
Is it any less "artistical prostitution" to attempt to fit drum corps into the
"professional setting" of concert hall music and it's standards?
> That's great if you keep striving to learn more how's and not settling for the
> same old repertoire. In other words, pushing the limits - innovation -
> creativity. If you already know how, then don't you think it's time to move on
> to something new, or is it easier to just take the safe way out, and stick with
> one established "how". Kind of boring...
How many people have truly "mastered" anything to the point of it being
boring, or to the point where radical departures are necessary to remain
creative? Creativity is just as valuable/valid when applied using given
parameters rather than jumping "outside the box" in the name of innovation.
Most people I've met or read about who could reasonably fit the definition of
a master usually mentions learning something new about their craft regularly.
And they seem to be able to move beyond their "boredom" in the interest of
truly mastering their craft.
Most of this talk of "innovation" and the need for it in drum corps stems
largely from the "creative boredom" of the staff. Some of what comes from it
is great, yet much of it is not in the best interest of this activity IMO.
Simple question - who is more bored - the membership which changes annually,
or the staff which remains much longer?
> Who sets these limits othe mediums? It's certainly not the artist.
The medium sets the limits. Those who understand the medium and can work
creatively within it are just as valuable as those who seek to refashion it
into something new.
> As an artist you're never at the top of the game for long, that's why it's a
> constant work in progress.
Is a constant work in progress somehow synonymous with the need for
"innovation"?
> No artist is ever satisfied with their work. If they are, then they are giving
> in to the predetermined levels of acceptedness.
This is true some of the time, in other cases they are simply bored with what
they are creating or the medium they are working in.
How exactly can an artist truly perfect their craft if they must - according
to the gist of your post - change the "established how" regularly to avoid
stagnation and boredom?
> People don't pay true artists unless they're dead...ask Mozart or Mussorgsky,
> or Schubert.
Picasso made millions. Considering the success before demise of the Cadets,
I'd hardly say they are suffering from a lack of recognition on scale with the
composers you mention. They make money at DCI shows. Does that mean they
aren't true artists?
Even Zingali was recognized before he passed away, and he's the closest I've
seen to a true visionary in the visual department in the last decade.
It's odd that you mention Mozart - he's best known as THE master of the
Classical medium, not as the creator of a new idiom. Shouldn't he, by the
"innovation" argument, have been bored with the limits of the Classical medium
and created something else?
JB GALAHAD
>well.
Jeff,
Well at least I got SOMEONE to agree with SOMETHING I said! :-)
Mike (mda...@ets.org)
Xmenmello
the same old same old. They have been doing a great job at getting these corps
different gigs outside of DCI. There is no reason for you to bash YEA. I bet
you don't even know half of what goes on with YEA and the corps affiliated with
YEA. Just shut the hell up and let them do their job because those kids are
loving every minute of it.
Terri Dittrich
Well, then you shouldn't worry about what other people think if you're
having such a super duper time.
I don't think I have to "shut the hell up" unless I want to.
-Terri
Jason Lowe
>Well, then you shouldn't worry about what other people think if you're
>having such a super duper time.
>
>I don't think I have to "shut the hell up" unless I want to.
hehe..tell 'em Terri. ;-)
>
>-Terri
Jason
ScribeToo
>YEA is trying to give the members of the corps in YEA something different
>from
>the same old same old. They have been doing a great job at getting these
>corps
>different gigs outside of DCI. There is no reason for you to bash YEA. I bet
>you don't even know half of what goes on with YEA and the corps affiliated
>with
>YEA. Just shut the hell up and let them do their job because those kids are
>loving every minute of it.
::sigh::
I guess Magic's kids were having such a good time and we missed it.. or all
that creative training the YEA provides has just made them such good actors
they covered it up completely.. I see.. Of course you're right..
::sarcasm off::
Oh, and one little hint.. telling the people on this board to "shut the hell
up" -- especially when it concerns our questions and criticisms of the YEA --
is just like putting dry leaves on a campfire to put it out..
-Stefanie
Terri Dittrich
I love you guys! brainwashed youth, a classic!
How about throwing gasoline on the campfire. Ka boom!
I think the Boston kids were also having just tons of fun, too.
-Terri
FrankAreMe
>you don't even know half of what goes on with YEA and the corps affiliated
>with
>YEA. Just shut the hell up and let them do their job because those kids are
>loving every minute of it.
Just like the kids in Boston absolutely LOVED going through the 110 degree heat
in Texas with YEA! begotten buses which were provided them with KNOWN air
conditioning problems. Yep, gotta love YEA for that.
Jason Lowe
>Just remember that's Terri "You want a piece of THIS!?" Dittrich...
lol.. I don't doubt it. :-)
>Heh...
>
>--
>Ron in Vegas
>mailto:ron.a...@att.net
Jason Lowe
Terri Dittrich
Well, that was when I marched. We used to taunt Madison's french horn
line with "Do you want a piece of us?" The joke was that it was five
females saying this to them. But now I am much more sedate. I hang
with a drumline! HA ;-)
-Terri
Terri Dittrich
>
> Terri Dittrich <gmen...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
> > Jason Lowe wrote:
> > >
> > > On 7 Sep 1998 22:47:48 GMT, R...@Dicemen.com (Ron Allard) wrote:
> > >
> > > >Just remember that's Terri "You want a piece of THIS!?" Dittrich...
> > line with "Do you want a piece of us?" The joke was that it was five
> > females saying this to them. But now I am much more sedate. I hang
> > with a drumline! HA ;-)
> >
> > -Terri
>
> (Grin)> "Because there was always something about the Skyliners...
> and that music..."
> - Donnie Solinger
>
> Corpsreps.com - The Drum Corps Repertoire Database
> http://www.corpsreps.com
Oh that's okay! I very mellow now, as you know...
;-)
-Terri
Tucker Hamilton
Xmenmello wrote:
> YEA is trying to give the members of the corps in YEA something different from
> the same old same old. They have been doing a great job at getting these corps
> different gigs outside of DCI. There is no reason for you to bash YEA. I bet
> you don't even know half of what goes on with YEA and the corps affiliated with
> YEA. Just shut the hell up and let them do their job because those kids are
> loving every minute of it.
Well said. Anyone who bashes YEA is probably uneducated on what the organization
is all about. If you are a YEA basher I suggest you try to find out what the
organization really does for the young people involved before you bash. After you
learn about the organization and still don't like it thats one thing but just
bashing YEA because you have heard bad rumors here on RAMD or elsewhere is
riduculous.
Zak ( A YEA kid :)
ScribeToo
A few things you apparently missed:
1. The majority of us do not "bash" YEA!. We question them.. we offer
realistic criticisms of the organization based on what we do know about the
YEA! organization. I, for one, have spent time getting to know the
organization.. I did a lot of research.. and even had the "inside" track at one
point. I have no qualms about many of the business practices of the
organization as a whole. Many of their ideas are good ones and ones that will
benefit corps in general.
2. Presuming that people are "bashing" as you put it, without knowledge are
understanding is inaccurate. I haven't seen you around much, so I must presume
you are either new or a lurker.. I'm betting on new.
I'm pleased you are having a good experience with YEA. One day, you might have
another perspective..
Be sure, Zak, when you jump in, that you know how deep the water is.
Stefanie
FrankAreMe
>organization
>is all about. If you are a YEA basher I suggest you try to find out what the
>organization really does for the young people involved before you bash. After
>you
>learn about the organization and still don't like it thats one thing but just
>bashing YEA because you have heard bad rumors here on RAMD or elsewhere is
>riduculous.
>
>Zak ( A YEA kid :)
Well Zak, why don't you tell us just what YEA! corps you were in. Were you
in Boston going through Texas with broken air conditioning on YEA! provided
buses? Were you in Magic with all their off field problems that wouldn't have
been there had not Hopkins stuck his nose in somewhere it didn't belong? Were
you in Crown where they are in danger of losing one of the finest and most
dedicated directors around in Kevin Smith because he wants YEA! out and their
board doesn't? Did you compete in I &E although your savior Hopkins calls all
who do that assholes??
Frank
Jason Lowe
>Well, that was when I marched. We used to taunt Madison's french horn
>line with "Do you want a piece of us?" The joke was that it was five
>females saying this to them. But now I am much more sedate. I hang
>with a drumline! HA ;-)
You call hanging with a drumline "sedate"? <grin>
>
>-Terri
Jason
RobbSi
-Terri>>
Hey, when the bus A.C. dies mid-summer, you get really creative to forget the
sticky seats and sweat beading up in the folds of your neck.
Jcopla
frank,
How do you know all that stuff???????? We're you there?
Joe
>Well Zak, why don't you tell us just what YEA! corps you were in. Were you
>in Boston going through Texas with broken air conditioning on YEA! provided
>buses? Were you in Magic with all their off field problems that wouldn't
>have
>been there had not Hopkins stuck his nose in somewhere it didn't belong?
>Were
>you in Crown where they are in danger of losing one of the finest and most
>dedicated directors around in Kevin Smith because he wants YEA! out and their
>board doesn't? Did you compete in I &E although your savior Hopkins calls
>all
>who do that assholes??
>
>Frank
></PRE></HTML>
NOTINSTEP
>post...
Not opinionated. Fact egghead. None of your YEA?/Cadetty designers are
artists in the least. Just sick adults after a bottle of YEA low self esteem
cause they cant sell their crap to anyone but uneducated people like you. :o)
>This attack on YEA? is entirely subjective on your perception of what
>constitutes "art".
And you make your living as a what? A bootlicking YEA? corps member? You an
artist there pal or just a brainwashed YEA? wanna-bee?
>that integrates both aural and visual concepts.
It doesnt integrate shit. 128 dits aint 3-d dolthead. Got eyes?? LOL
>, but in my opinion, is the greatest playing I ever
>did, then I pack my stuff up and find a new gig.
And look at all the problems with yawning corps shows since Hopkins started
messing with the drum corps rules for *design teams* in 1982. BTW egghead, the
classical realms music sales have fallen on very hard times, down many
percentage points in the last 5 years. Look it up for yourself. I make a
living in the art world. Your *visual designers do what egghead??? Post the
design and art qualifications of all YEA DCI judges and staff. Lets see what
they are teaching these kids about art. If nothing - which is the correct
answer - then there is NO FRICKIN PURPOSE to having that judged in a youth
music/marching contest.
Hey egghead, you dont believe what cesario says do you....about the kids being
the *amateurs* and the show *designs* being all important do you???? Who is
the activity for egghead???? Got a brain yet???
>Part of being a respected professional musician, is not compromising to the
>limited standards set by others.
Part of being a respected professional artist is not compromising to the
limited standards set by drum corps desigers for a buck
.>you just as well better stop living
>the charade.
Well said to every *visual designer* in the country. (especially the
guardwackos. Now theres a real talented crowd...LOL)
> maybe as an illuistrator for an
>architectural firm, I think that falls under the label of artisitcal
>prostiution.
When millions of dollars are at stake and the firm has no one on staff to
handle a local or national press release they hire someone that can do what
they cant from a compositional and artistic (sometimes design) standpoint. It
must be executed to precision like the drum lines of old used to play. I can
draw. Can your designers draw? All designers I do business with can. Why are
yours so damn stupid???? Prostitute? No kid, I aint sleeping with corps
members like the staffs of some DCI/YEA corps are. There is prostitution.
>not pushing the slightest to rise to a aesthetically higher level..
You wouldnt know what an *artistically higher level* is. Your speed is like
the designers....paint by number with a beer in the other hand.
>That's great if you keep striving to learn more
What are you learning from your corps *visual designer*??? What? Lets hear
it? Nothing? Then why give points for it if this is a youth music/marching
contest????
>Who sets these limits othe mediums? It's certainly not the artist.
No its natural proportions that do this. You have to study a bit to learn
these. They are there and you cant do it with 128 dots on a football field
idiot.
>No artist is ever satisfied with their work. If they are, then they are
>giving
>in to the predetermined levels of acceptedness.
You would know hugh? What have you ever done on a canvas hotshot?
>Please just keep in mind that YEA is an organization for the development of
>young talent.
No its not. It is for the rape of young talent. Look at the contracts that
are out there and doyble dipping bt YEA? for shoe contracts and food . You
haare a brainwashed little kid....a cult member.
Find Hale-Bopp and go for the Hopkins/YEA? ride.
NOT IN STEP
FrankAreMe
>How do you know all that stuff???????? We're you there?
>Joe
>
>
Can't say that I was joe (I'll keep your name in small letters too since you
did that curtesy to mine). We're you there? Can you tell me different?
Frank
Carlyjlj75
supply already.
I hope you feel better now, after heroically defending your
anti-YEA/Cadets/George Hopkins stand.
Wow, I've never been called an egghead before. That was kind of fun.
Whatever. The bottom line is, I don't even remotely come close to thinking
about YEA the way you do. We could leave it like that. Or I could use my
personal insights and experiences to contradict everything you wrote. Or I
could call you an egghead.
Although it is the easy way out, egghead is my personal favorite.
Carly J
Jcopla
>did that curtesy to mine). We're you there? Can you tell me different?
>Frank
Sorry, didn't mean to put your name in lower case.
And Yes, I have been there, know the organization personally and believe that
they only have the best interests of drum corps at heart.
Joe
FrankAreMe
>
That's ok
> And Yes, I have been there, know the organization personally and believe
>that
>they only have the best interests of drum corps at heart.
>
>
>Joe
Can you enlighten us then Joe and tell us what happened and/or is happening?
Frank
mold...@gac.edu
noti...@aol.com (NOTINSTEP) wrote:
>
> BTW egghead, the classical realms music sales have fallen on very hard times,
> down many percentage points in the last 5 years. Look it up for yourself. I
> make a living in the art world.
Then you'd probably know that the most likely reason that classical music
sales have slipped is that most collectors have already bought all the cds of
the music they previously had on records, not that classical music is any
less popular than it has been.
Michael Oldemeyer
James Christian
> In article <199809140632...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
> noti...@aol.com (NOTINSTEP) wrote:
> >
> > BTW egghead, the classical realms music sales have fallen on very hard times,
> > down many percentage points in the last 5 years. Look it up for yourself. I
> > make a living in the art world.
>
> Then you'd probably know that the most likely reason that classical music
> sales have slipped is that most collectors have already bought all the cds of
> the music they previously had on records, not that classical music is any
> less popular than it has been.
You think that over the years people were constantly buying records and then they
just suddenly bought a bunch of CDs and stopped?
How about: Classical music isn't attracting a lot of new fans.
Rudimentally yours,
James Christian
FrankAreMe
>Then you'd probably know that the most likely reason that classical music
>sales have slipped is that most collectors have already bought all the cds of
>the music they previously had on records, not that classical music is any
>less popular than it has been.
>
>
hmmmm such logic
1. Classical music was popular.
2. Collectors bought every classical cd, record and/or tape available.
3. Because of number 2, there aren't any cd's, records and/or tapes available
for everyone else?
4. Or, now that the collectors no longer buy any classical cd's, records
and/or tapes because they have everything ever recorded, they are just sitting
on the racks without hope of ever being sold to a good home.
or
5. Classical music actually gets less popular with each generation and will
continue to do so except among music majors and collectors and the few others
who actually perfer it over rap and heavy metal.
Frank
mold...@gac.edu
James Christian <james_c...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> You think that over the years people were constantly buying records and then
> they just suddenly bought a bunch of CDs and stopped?
How many **new** recordings are available. Just about everything that was
available on record has been transferred to disc. Yes, the collectors have
pretty much stopped? When new recordings (of new music or music previously
recorded) come out, they will more than likely be purchased.
mold...@gac.edu
frank...@aol.com (FrankAreMe) wrote:
>
> >Then you'd probably know that the most likely reason that classical music
> >sales have slipped is that most collectors have already bought all the cds of
> >the music they previously had on records, not that classical music is any
> >less popular than it has been.
>
>
> 1. Classical music was popular.
> 2. Collectors bought every classical cd, record and/or tape available.
> 3. Because of number 2, there aren't any cd's, records and/or tapes available
> for everyone else?
> 4. Or, now that the collectors no longer buy any classical cd's, records
> and/or tapes because they have everything ever recorded, they are just
> sitting on the racks without hope of ever being sold to a good home.
> or
> 5. Classical music actually gets less popular with each generation and will
> continue to do so except among music majors and collectors and the few
> others who actually perfer it over rap and heavy metal.
There was a boom in the sale of classical recordings when cds first became
mainstream because collectors wanted to update their libraries. Did you
expect that boom to last, even if new people were entering the market?
People will always buy recordings of Beethoven, Bach, Mozart, Wagner, etc...
It's not "classic" music by accident. There is an inherent quality to that
music that will always attract new audiences. Those audiences will not be as
big as those for pop music, though, since pop music so saturates our culture.
Hell, I wasn't even too interested in classical music till I heard Regiment
for the first time. How many times on this ng have people said that
drumcorps opened their lives to all this "new" music that's been around for
100's of years?
Michael Oldemeyer
sorry about going off on a tangent
James Christian
> In article <35FF46D8...@hotmail.com>,
> James Christian <james_c...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > You think that over the years people were constantly buying records and then
> > they just suddenly bought a bunch of CDs and stopped?
>
> How many **new** recordings are available. Just about everything that was
> available on record has been transferred to disc. Yes, the collectors have
> pretty much stopped? When new recordings (of new music or music previously
> recorded) come out, they will more than likely be purchased.
What do you mean? There is a ton of orchestral music written everyday.
Movie soundtracks are constantly being written, but if you'll notice more and
more movie scores are using pop music instead of the traditional orchestral
music. The reason? Perhaps the symphonic scores weren't selling as well.
Rudimentally yours,
James Christian
ScribeToo
I would just like to point out that I find it un-endingly amusing that this
thread started out being about the flaws in the YEA mission statement and has
become a sincere discussion about the decline of classical music recordings
sales..
does anyone else find this particularly funny?
(*)stef
FrankAreMe
I can't believe you didn't see that coming Stef!! It was so bound to happen
when this thread began!! :)
Frank
FrankAreMe
>There was a boom in the sale of classical recordings when cds first became
>mainstream because collectors wanted to update their libraries. Did you
>expect that boom to last, even if new people were entering the market?
>
>People will always buy recordings of Beethoven, Bach, Mozart, Wagner, etc...
>It's not "classic" music by accident. There is an inherent quality to that
>music that will always attract new audiences. Those audiences will not be as
>big as those for pop music, though, since pop music so saturates our culture.
>Hell, I wasn't even too interested in classical music till I heard Regiment
>for the first time. How many times on this ng have people said that
>drumcorps opened their lives to all this "new" music that's been around for
>100's of years?
>
>Michael Oldemeyer
>
>sorry about going off on a tangent
>
I agree, there's always new people becoming interested in classical music, just
less and less with each generation. Sure there will always be an interest I
hope!
And yes, drum corps opened me up to a lot of new music that I probably would
never have listened to without hearing a corps play it first--such as Chuck
Mangione and Kenton an d Maynard as well as Grieg, the Russian composers (I got
a C in Russian history because I couldn't spell names <G> so hopefully most wil
know who I mean! :) and many others!!!
Frank
LarryP1414
Stef wrote:
I would just like to point out that I find it un-endingly amusing that this
thread started out being about the flaws in the YEA mission statement and has
become a sincere discussion about the decline of classical music recordings
sales..
does anyone else find this particularly funny?
(*)stef
So... as I understand it: YEA is responsible for the decline in sales of
classical recordings and popularity of classical music.
I think I see it all now.
ScribeToo
>So... as I understand it: YEA is responsible for the decline in sales of
>classical recordings and popularity of classical music.
>
>I think I see it all now.
Larry,
actually you didn't understand it at all..
I was making an aside comment.. had nothing to do with the classical recordings
portion of your regularly scheduled program..
sheesh.. everybody's so sensitive..
oh yeah.. and there's been a sighting in WalMart.. George... oh,
nevermind.. nobody around here can take a joke anymore..
Stefanie
mold...@gac.edu
James Christian <james_c...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Calling orchestral movie scores "classical" music is quite a stretch.
mold...@gac.edu
larry...@aol.com (LarryP1414) wrote:
> So... as I understand it: YEA is responsible for the decline in sales of
> classical recordings and popularity of classical music.
>
> I think I see it all now.
BTW, I don't remember ever hearing, who wrote Stonehenge? I think I may
go out and buy a cd.
Michael Oldemeyer
NOTINSTEP
Your personal insights and experiences hugh? And what might those be?
Drinking tainted Kool-Aid from the YEA trough? Put your experiences up on the
wall. Ive been judging and teaching next to these idiots for years. Now we
are telling about what is going on. If you cant hack the truth, thats your
problem. Ill give you a clue though.....YEA$ and any band circuit is not going
to use my tax money for adult design competitions. If you think these
*contests* are legit and for kids, read the rules and attend the clinics. It
has become a sham and YEA$ is a good part of the problem. Hopkins must go. (He
should become a banana salesman.)
Wanna tell me what a *magnificent YEA$ human being* is? Its in their mission
statement on the website.
Hopkins. "I am no fan of competitiion."
Hopkins ' "Why, we should compete" (when someone rattled his cage about cadets
becoming a band and not being allowed DCI gate.
Hopkins "Kids should not compete against themselves."
Those YEA$ brainwashing techniques are highly effective for the weakminded.
Too bad George drank some of his own Kool-Aid and contradicted himself on this
issue so mindlessly.
NOT IN STEP
FrankAreMe
>BTW, I don't remember ever hearing, who wrote Stonehenge? I think I may
>go out and buy a cd.
>
>Michael Oldemeyer
>
>
Never mind who wrote it, I want to know who built it and what it means!!!
Frank
mda...@ets.org
mold...@gac.edu wrote:
>
> Calling orchestral movie scores "classical" music is quite a stretch.
>
Except maybe in "Amadeus". :-)
And, "Babe" (about the talking pig) used themes from the Saint Saens "Organ
Symphony", but then that would make it "Romantic", not "Classical", I guess.
Mike
Timothy Mena
>
> >frank,
> >How do you know all that stuff???????? We're you there?
> >Joe
> >
> >
>
> did that curtesy to mine). We're you there? Can you tell me different?
>
> Frank
Wow.
mold...@gac.edu
mda...@ets.org wrote:
> In article <6tt1a5$vqm$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
> mold...@gac.edu wrote:
> >
> > Calling orchestral movie scores "classical" music is quite a stretch.
> >
>
> Except maybe in "Amadeus". :-)
>
> And, "Babe" (about the talking pig) used themes from the Saint Saens "Organ
> Symphony", but then that would make it "Romantic", not "Classical", I guess.
Well, yeah, the movies that use previously recorded music can be classified
as classical, such as your examples. The score to "Shine" did just fine, as
well. The original movie scores that use orchestras hardly fit within the
realm of classical music.
Michae
JB GALAHAD
>Well, yeah, the movies that use previously recorded music can be classified
>as classical, such as your examples.
I was only joshing you! :-)
I agree that calling an orignal film score 'classical music' is quite a
stretch.
Mike (mda...@ets.org)
James Christian
> In article <36006ED3...@hotmail.com>,
> James Christian <james_c...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > What do you mean? There is a ton of orchestral music written everyday.
> > Movie soundtracks are constantly being written, but if you'll notice more
> > and more movie scores are using pop music instead of the traditional
> > orchestral music. The reason? Perhaps the symphonic scores weren't selling
> > as well.
>
> Calling orchestral movie scores "classical" music is quite a stretch.
In the "classical" section of a CD store, there are Baroque, Classical, Romantic,
Modern, etc. types of music. The composers range from Bach to Beethoven to Chopin
to John Williams. "Classical" is a term to cover all of them. "Orchestral" would
probably be a better term.
Rudimentally yours,
James Christian