Switching: Baritone Bugle to Trombone
Kevin Gamin
trombone to a baritone. Well, I have the opposite situation. I played
baritone in my corps up until 3 years ago and would now like to take up
trombone. Any tips or pointers that would help me along? Mind you, I've been
a valve user in one form or another (trumpet, sop, bari) all my musical life...
Kevin Gamin
Toledo Glassmen
Member, 1992-1996
Volunteer 1997-1998
Spectator 1999
Richard Moon
and Alls i can really tell you is get a fingering-to-position chart, and study
the heck out of that sucker.
Seriously, every slide position is completely and easily relatable to a
fingering, and as soon as you've got the two interchangeble in your mind,
you're just about all the tway through the switch-over.
1st position, open
2nd, 2nd valve
3rd, 1st valve
4th, 1st&2nd valves
5th, 2nd&3rd valves
6th, 1st&3rd
7th, 1st, 2nd &3rd
Got a trigger? Nope, you've got a fourth valve up by your ear!
Richard, Euph
<*>
.
"We can't guarantee anybody's safety here. We put signs up and boundary
fencing, but you can't stop the cheese, not completely."
-Tony Pither, chairman
Cooper's Hill Cheese Rolling Committee
<*>
WildKardde
>fingering, and as soon as you've got the two interchangeble in your mind,
>you're just about all the tway through the switch-over.
>
>1st position, open
>2nd, 2nd valve
>3rd, 1st valve
>4th, 1st&2nd valves
>5th, 2nd&3rd valves
>6th, 1st&3rd
>7th, 1st, 2nd &3rd
that only works if your corps writes its bari parts in bass, or you play
trombone in treble, otherwise it gets kinda confusing
Zach Daniels
Mandarins '98 Contra
Matt LaFontaine
positions has nothing to do with what clef you're playing in, whether it's
bass, treble, or tenor (I've never played euph or 'bone music in alto, but
I'm sure it's out there somewhere).
--
Regards,
Matt LaFontaine
Indiana University Marching Hundred Sousaphone
mlaf...@indianaHOOSIERS.edu (remove HOOSIERS to reply)
WildKardde wrote in message
<19991025010807...@ng-fk1.aol.com>...
Frank Jacobson
jake
NWV
Matt LaFontaine
switching from baritone to slide trombone? And don't say there's a
transitional value, because valve trombones aren't worth a damn if you
actually want to sound like a real trombone.
--
Regards,
Matt LaFontaine
Indiana University Marching Hundred Sousaphone
mlaf...@indianaHOOSIERS.edu (remove HOOSIERS to reply)
Frank Jacobson wrote in message <381486B3...@pss.boeing.com>...
Richard Moon
trombone in treble, otherwise it gets kinda confusing
Zach Daniels
Mandarins '98 Contra>>
You know, you're absolutely right. I just assumed that, as a Bari player, the
guy would be conversant with both Bass and Treble clefs, but that's based
solely on my experience...
Of course, if he played Bari in bass clef, he's got no problems....and if he
played Bari only in Treble, then he better learn Bass clef right quick if he's
going to be playing Trombone!
Richard Moon
asking about switching instruments. Clef considerations aside, the
fingering-position list I gave is what worked for me. Learning new clefs is a
given.
At any rate, the list still works, even if one has to learn a new clef. The
positions and fingerings remain the same even if the note-names change.
Kevin Gamin
trumpet, soprano bugle, and baritone bugle, all written for treble clef...
WildKardde
>Equating valve combinations to slide
>positions has nothing to do with what clef you're playing in, whether it's
>bass, treble, or tenor
Zach Daniels
Mandarins '98 Contra
Matt LaFontaine
Right...
;-) I do see your point about clefs though the transition isn't too bad if
you're willing to spend some time on it. Ah well...
--
Regards,
Matt LaFontaine
Indiana University Marching Hundred Sousaphone
mlaf...@indianaHOOSIERS.edu (remove HOOSIERS to reply)
WildKardde wrote in message
<19991025192735...@ng-fr1.aol.com>...
JERRY TB1
worst thing will be when your lips are playing a tone but something different
comes out of the horn.
Jerry Trombone 1
http://www.dci.org/cybercast/index.html
http://home.maine.rr.com/bhsdl/images/bddesk2.jpg
LEG at cba
All this talk about fingering charts, slide positions, and such makes me think
maybe drum corps were better off when we learned everything using the rote
method. For the uninitiated, that means by ear and sight. With X's and O's
and R's/S's.
Larry "G"
musi...@paonline.com
--
Ryan Williams
Reading Buccaneers Drum and Bugle Corps Contra Section
LEG at cba <lega...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19991026082407...@ng-cm1.aol.com...
musi...@paonline.com
trombone. Other than some jazz techniques, everything trombone-related can
be duplicated on a euph. Even glissandos, etc, can be done by half-valving.
I teach the low brass section in a high school band, and if I had the
option, I'd have all the trombones on baritones to eliminate the intonation
nightmares.
--
Ryan Williams
Reading Buccaneers Drum and Bugle Corps Contra Section
Kevin Gamin <tol...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19991024160120...@ng-ci1.aol.com...
> I just read a post in which somebody asked for tips on switching from a
> trombone to a baritone. Well, I have the opposite situation. I played
> baritone in my corps up until 3 years ago and would now like to take up
> trombone. Any tips or pointers that would help me along? Mind you, I've
been
> a valve user in one form or another (trumpet, sop, bari) all my musical
life...
>
>
dexterthekid
2. put good old f or Bb in your head and then buzz it forever on your
mouthpiece
3. the previously mentioned FINGERING chart will work fine, but clefs
are another issue
4. learn 1st, 4th, and 6th first
* 1st is all the way in, 4th is right past the bell and sixth is a
comfortable arms reach for most, then just put the rest of them in
between by using a good ear!
Have fun, good luck and especially listen to good trombone playing,i.e,
Joe Alessi, Christian Lindberg, Scott Hartman, etc..
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Richard Moon
While I agree the reading is the above, trombones are actually in Bb, not C. We
just read in C...
<<3. the previously mentioned FINGERING chart will work fine, but clefs
are another issue>>
And, ultimately, the harder one. Learning fingerings/Positions is just a matter
of memorizing. If there's a problem learning a new clef, then there's a
problem(redundant? Yeah, I guess so)
Richard Moon
played
trumpet, soprano bugle, and baritone bugle, all written for treble clef...
Kevin Gamin>>
You're going to need to learn it, dude. And if you want to get serious, tenor
and alto clef won't hurt either.
One big difference from keyed-specific treble clef: The open note is Bb, the
actual, concert name for the pitch. No more auto-transposing!
dexterthekid
hfm...@aol.comrttem (Richard Moon) wrote:
> <<1. getting used to a horn in c and not in g is the hardest part>>
>
> While I agree the reading is the above, trombones are actually in Bb,
not C. We
> just read in C...
No, trombones are CONCERT PITCHED instruments, which means that they
are pitched in C!!! For instance, if I played an Eb on a marimba, which
is a CONCERT pitched instrument, and then played an Eb on a trombone,
which is a CONCERT pitched horn, both instruments would play the same
note, hence trombone is in CONCERT pitch, in other words, it is pitched
in C!!! And we read in C as well!!!
>
> Richard, Euph
> <*>
>
> .
>
> "We can't guarantee anybody's safety here. We put signs up and
boundary
> fencing, but you can't stop the cheese, not completely."
>
-Tony Pither, chairman
>
Cooper's Hill Cheese Rolling Committee
>
> <*>
>
Richard Moon
are pitched in C!!! For instance, if I played an Eb on a marimba, which
is a CONCERT pitched instrument, and then played an Eb on a trombone,
which is a CONCERT pitched horn, both instruments would play the same
note, hence trombone is in CONCERT pitch, in other words, it is pitched
in C!!! And we read in C as well!!!>>
I've heard this argument before, and often even more empassioned and full of
caps and exclamation points, and it never ceases to amuse me.
Okay, friend, since you insist that trombones are pitched in C, answer me this.
When you play the fundamental pitch on your trombone, what note comes out?
Is it, like the standard flute, a C? Or is it, like the bottom string on
standard string instruments, an A?
Or is it, just like the fundamental note on standard trumpets, clarinets,
tenor saxophones, tubas, euphs, and baritones, a Bb?
Someday, we're going to have to teach all these kids the difference between
construction and reading. The vast majority of trombones built today, friend,
are pitched in Bb. In open position, with no triggers, on the bottom-most
pitch that the horn was designed to play naturally, a Bb comes out. Same as
with a trumpet.
The difference, everyone, is that on most trumpet parts, that note, that
concert Bb, is written as a C, and the whole part is transposed. The same is
done for clarinets, tenor saxes, etc etc...
The same sort of thing is done for French Horns, which are pitched in F. The
note we hear as concert F, they read as C.
However, for some reason I know not of, andf that are *not* transposed, so
that our fundamental notes are written as Bbs, rather than Cs. Except,
strangely enough, for some baritone parts.
Do we understand yet? Do we understand the difference between a horn's natural
pitch and the keying of their parts?
Richard Moon
option, I'd have all the trombones on baritones to eliminate the intonation
nightmares.>>
I sympathize. The only problem is that you'd end up with plenty of fine euphs,
but not a single potential good trombone player. The Trombone can be an
unforgiving instrument in terms of intonation, no doubt, and the only way to
solve that is practice.
And, to some discerning listeners, the timbre *is* different between a 'bone
and a euph. Maybe not important to most people, I suppose, but I was never
comfortable playing a good Bb Euph in the orchestra while my Bass 'bone was in
the shop. Just didn't sound right....
LEG at cba
....a bunch of stuff snipped....
> However, for some reason I know not of, andf that are *not* transposed,
so
>that our fundamental notes are written as Bbs, rather than Cs. Except,
>strangely enough, for some baritone parts.
>
> Do we understand yet? Do we understand the difference between a horn's
>natural
>pitch and the keying of their parts?
>Richard, Euph
I'm just lovin' this exchange......
....makes me wanna change professions and go teach music.....
....NOT!!!
Larry "G"
Nikk Pilato
> are pitched in C!!! For instance, if I played an Eb on a marimba, which
> is a CONCERT pitched instrument, and then played an Eb on a trombone,
> which is a CONCERT pitched horn, both instruments would play the same
> note, hence trombone is in CONCERT pitch, in other words, it is pitched
> in C!!! And we read in C as well!!!>>
> I've heard this argument before, and often even more empassioned and full of
> caps and exclamation points, and it never ceases to amuse me.
> Okay, friend, since you insist that trombones are pitched in C, answer me this.
> When you play the fundamental pitch on your trombone, what note comes out?
Be gentle with him.
> Is it, like the standard flute, a C? Or is it, like the bottom string on
> standard string instruments, an A?
Easy, easy....don't want to hurt him...
> Or is it, just like the fundamental note on standard trumpets, clarinets,
> tenor saxophones, tubas, euphs, and baritones, a Bb?
The euphonium and the trombone are pitched in Bb. They read in C,
however. The baritone, in its traditional sense, is supposed to be in
Treble Clef. The treble clef baritone (still pitched in Bb) reads in Bb,
transposing as does the tenor saxophone.
While trombones, euphoniums, and most tubas read concert pitch (in
other words, no transpositions are necessary), they are nonetheless pitched
in Bb, as my friend Richard mentions here.
++
np
http://otto.cmr.fsu.edu/~pilato_n
"People are upset not by things, but by their ideas of things."
-Epictetus
musi...@paonline.com
--
Ryan Williams
Reading Buccaneers Drum and Bugle Corps Contra Section
Richard Moon <hfm...@aol.comrttem> wrote in message
news:19991028030742...@ng-fw1.aol.com...
musi...@paonline.com
A trombone is in the key of C, as is Baritone, as it Tuba, as it flute, as
is mallets, piano, strings. You write a C, you hear a C.
If the fundamental pitch is what we go by, then let me offer this:
Clarinets are legal for drum corps.
If you hold nothing down, you get a G. Are drum corps horns not in G?
Wait, with your argument, drum corps horns are in C (The fundamental pitch).
That means there are a lot of disqualifications to tend to over the past 70
years.
--
Ryan Williams
Reading Buccaneers Drum and Bugle Corps Contra Section
Nikk Pilato <pila...@cmr.fsu.edu> wrote in message
news:7v9j6o$sgd$2...@news.fsu.edu...
Nikk Pilato
> A trombone is in the key of C, as is Baritone, as it Tuba, as it flute, as
> is mallets, piano, strings. You write a C, you hear a C.
> If the fundamental pitch is what we go by, then let me offer this:
> Clarinets are legal for drum corps.
> If you hold nothing down, you get a G. Are drum corps horns not in G?
> Wait, with your argument, drum corps horns are in C (The fundamental pitch).
> That means there are a lot of disqualifications to tend to over the past 70
> years.
You're being semantic, which is fine. I do not know what the DCI
rules say, but I do know this: Arnold Jacobs once taught masterclasses at
Florida State. Someone asked him about his tuba collection. he said "I
have a tuba pitched in C and one pitched in Bb" (among other tubas he
mentioned). He explained that while Tubas read in C, most are pitched in
Bb.
Now, if you want to disagree with someone like Arnold Jacobs, that's
fine with me...it's your call. But I think I'll choose to believe him and
conventional logic. Trombones and Euphoniums are pitched in Bb, not C.
BTW, I know that tubas are responsible for their own
transpositions...i.e., if someone has an Eb tuba, they have to transpose
on the spot, the instrument does not do it for them.
Richard Moon
A trombone is in the key of C, as is Baritone, as it Tuba, as it flute, as
is mallets, piano, strings. You write a C, you hear a C.>>
That's exactly my point, Ryan. As I said, all those instruments(the Bari only
when in Bass clef) *read* in C. But they are all *pitched* in Bb. The open,
fundamental note, without any alteration such as valves or slides or triggers,
for, let's be specific here, the trombone, is Bb. Every alteration, be it from
a slide, a valve, or a trigger, works off of that fundamental pitch and it's
over-tones. Just like the Tuba, the baritone, and the trumpet. The big
difference between the bass clef instruments and the trumpet is that the
trumpet, in general *reads* in Bb. That is, the written note "C" on trumpet
parts sounds as a *concert* Bb.
That's the difference, and why I did make the distinction between the *pitch*
of an instrument and the key it *reads* in.
I played baritone* quite a bit in high school, and depending on the piece my
parts might be in either treble or bass clef. In bass clef, my horn's
fundamental note is written as a Bb, and sounds as a concert Bb. In treble,
the fundamental note is written as a C, but it still sounds as a concert Bb.
Is it your contention now that the construction of the horn changes when I
switch parts?
The thing that seems to be getting forgot here is the difference between a
written pitch and the concert pitch. I could write a trombone part in alto
clef, transposed such that the written C is a concert F#, and that still
wouldn't change the fact that the fundamental note of the tenor trombone that
plays that part is a concert Bb.
So, there it is, the difference between *reading* in a certain key and being
pitched in a certain key. So your following example:
<<If the fundamental pitch is what we go by, then let me offer this:
Clarinets are legal for drum corps.
If you hold nothing down, you get a G. Are drum corps horns not in G?
Wait, with your argument, drum corps horns are in C (The fundamental pitch).>>
Is completely wrong, disturbingly so considering your Screen Name. Drum corps
horns are pitched in G, and they read in G(when in treble clef, asI prefer it).
That is, the fundamental pitch of the horn is a *concert* G, and the written C
sounds a *concert* G. There is nothing in my argument that even comes close to
suggesting that the fundamental pitch of a drum corps horn is C, because I'm
talking about *concert* pitches here, and common conventions. I've read corps
parts in transposed treble clef and transposed bass clef(yeech), and neither
changed the fundamental pitching of the horn. Becvause neither determined it.
Those were simply keys I was *reading* in, they had no effect on the
construction of the horn.
Again, I say it. Trombones are pitched in Bb. Trombones read in C.
dexterthekid
taking a college theory class and we just went over the keys of
instruments and transposition, I'll just tell the teacher that he and
the writers of our text are wrong.
Matt, T-Bone
> <<No, trombones are CONCERT PITCHED instruments, which means that they
> are pitched in C!!! For instance, if I played an Eb on a marimba,
which
> is a CONCERT pitched instrument, and then played an Eb on a trombone,
> which is a CONCERT pitched horn, both instruments would play the same
> note, hence trombone is in CONCERT pitch, in other words, it is
pitched
> in C!!! And we read in C as well!!!>>
>
> I've heard this argument before, and often even more empassioned and
full of
> caps and exclamation points, and it never ceases to amuse me.
>
> Okay, friend, since you insist that trombones are pitched in C,
answer me this.
> When you play the fundamental pitch on your trombone, what note
comes out?
>
> Is it, like the standard flute, a C? Or is it, like the bottom
string on
> standard string instruments, an A?
>
> Or is it, just like the fundamental note on standard trumpets,
clarinets,
> tenor saxophones, tubas, euphs, and baritones, a Bb?
>
> Someday, we're going to have to teach all these kids the
difference between
> construction and reading. The vast majority of trombones built
today, friend,
> are pitched in Bb. In open position, with no triggers, on the bottom-
most
> pitch that the horn was designed to play naturally, a Bb comes out.
Same as
> with a trumpet.
> The difference, everyone, is that on most trumpet parts, that
note, that
> concert Bb, is written as a C, and the whole part is transposed. The
same is
> done for clarinets, tenor saxes, etc etc...
> The same sort of thing is done for French Horns, which are
pitched in F. The
> note we hear as concert F, they read as C.
>
> However, for some reason I know not of, andf that are *not*
transposed, so
> that our fundamental notes are written as Bbs, rather than Cs.
Except,
> strangely enough, for some baritone parts.
>
> Do we understand yet? Do we understand the difference between a
horn's natural
> pitch and the keying of their parts?
> Richard, Euph
> <*>
>
> .
>
> "We can't guarantee anybody's safety here. We put signs up and
boundary
> fencing, but you can't stop the cheese, not completely."
>
-Tony Pither, chairman
>
Cooper's Hill Cheese Rolling Committee
>
> <*>
>
Kevin Gamin
are pitched in C!!! For instance, if I played an Eb on a marimba, which
is a CONCERT pitched instrument, and then played an Eb on a trombone,
which is a CONCERT pitched horn, both instruments would play the same
note, hence trombone is in CONCERT pitch, in other words, it is pitched
in C!!! And we read in C as well!!!> >>
Uh, guys? I only wanted a little advice about switching from bari bugle to
trombone...Y'know, from valves to slides...this is getting a little outta hand
here, OK? Take a deep breath, calm down, and realize, YOU'RE GETTING OVER
EXCITED HERE!!!! :)
Nikk Pilato
> taking a college theory class and we just went over the keys of
> instruments and transposition, I'll just tell the teacher that he and
> the writers of our text are wrong.
Listen...I don't mean to sound rude, arrogant, or pushy, so I hope you do
not take it in that context, but I have been playing the euphonium for
almost 16 years now. I would hope that I would know what key we are
pitched in. While I admit I am no Brian Bowman, I ain't shabby: I was
All-State in high school and college, and even managed to win a couple of
DCM I&E titles. But more importantly, I do a lot of arranging and
composition for wind band. And every book or person with anything to say
on the subject has said the same thing: While they read in C (i.e., no
transpositions), they are pitched in Bb.
dexterthekid
obdurate individuals. Just keep on keepin' on and don't lose your
footing along the way.
>
> Listen...I don't mean to sound rude, arrogant, or pushy, so I hope
you do
> not take it in that context, but I have been playing the euphonium for
> almost 16 years now. I would hope that I would know what key we are
> pitched in. While I admit I am no Brian Bowman, I ain't shabby: I was
> All-State in high school and college, and even managed to win a
couple of
> DCM I&E titles. But more importantly, I do a lot of arranging and
> composition for wind band. And every book or person with anything to
say
> on the subject has said the same thing: While they read in C (i.e.,
no
> transpositions), they are pitched in Bb.
>
> ++
> np
>
> http://otto.cmr.fsu.edu/~pilato_n
>
> "People are upset not by things, but by their ideas of things."
>
> -Epictetus
>
>
dexterthekid
kno...@rootcom.net
learn in first grade, only we use pitch names and intervals instead of
the numbers 1-12.
Nomenclature - All brass instruments are named for the fundamental
concert pitch sounded by the open horn.
Clefs - traditionally used to eliminate extensive amounts of ledger
lines. Baritone/Euph players, learn both and you'll never have to read
3 on a part. Trombone players, bass clef is required, tenor will pop up
when you start getting serious. Alto clef, you'll find it in stuff like
Beethoven where you'll have 84 measures of rests in which to figure out
your next 3 pitches, followed by another 84 bars of rests.
Only one respondent has hinted at the true difference in playing
technique. Pitch compensation. On slide trombone, always center the
sound and use the slide to adjust. On valved instruments, compensation
is by various proportions of tongue arch and airstream direction.
Doubling the various brass instruments is an excellent way to learn
proportioning and control of the playing techniques common to this
family of instruments.
Nikk Pilato
> obdurate individuals. Just keep on keepin' on and don't lose your
> footing along the way.
No need to get obstreperous.
People should be happy for new knowledge, not resentful of it.
Terri Dittrich
wrote:
> dexterthekid, you must bring me a shrubbery!!!
>> Fine. Whatever. Just drop it, I don't like to discuss things with
>> obdurate individuals. Just keep on keepin' on and don't lose your
>> footing along the way.
>
> No need to get obstreperous.
Ron what is that com dictionary you told me about again? LOL!
Just kidding Nikk.
>
> People should be happy for new knowledge, not resentful of it.
>
>
> ++
> np
>
> http://otto.cmr.fsu.edu/~pilato_n
>
>
> "People are upset not by things, but by their ideas of things."
>
> -Epictetus
>
-Terri
--
"So long as men can breathe, or eyes can see,
So long lives this, and this gives life to thee."
-William Shakespeare
musi...@paonline.com
I'm not allowed to think this much on Sunday.
And give me a LITTLE credit.....even though my screen name is "Music maker",
I have yet to study it in-depth...that comes next year. :)
So then what key is the piano in?
--
Ryan Williams
Reading Buccaneers Drum and Bugle Corps Contra Section
Richard Moon <hfm...@aol.comrttem> wrote in message
news:19991028160938...@ng-fg1.aol.com...
musi...@paonline.com
> No need to get obstreperous.
No big fancy words on RAMD!
Kevin Gamin
No big fancy words on RAMD! >>
You're incorrigible. :)
Nikk Pilato
> No big fancy words on RAMD!
:) THe only reason I used it was because the guy I was responding to used
the word "obdurate."
Richard Moon
I'm not allowed to think this much on Sunday.>>
Sorry about that. The police told me to go easy after I made that guy's head
explode that one time, but sometimes I forget....;-)
<<And give me a LITTLE credit.....even though my screen name is "Music maker",
I have yet to study it in-depth...that comes next year. :)>>
Good luck with it! It's a skill and profession that I have next to no talent
in, even though I tried for a while to build some. I'm constantly in awe of
anyone who has the inspiration and ability.
<<So then what key is the piano in?>>
A piano is a collection of percussively-played strings, rather than one
harmonic oscillator that gets modified. In other words, we could say that a
piano is pitched in 88 keys....
Or that a piano is really just 88 strings, all pitched differently....
--
Ryan Williams>>
Richard Moon
taking a college theory class and we just went over the keys of
instruments and transposition, I'll just tell the teacher that he and
the writers of our text are wrong.
Matt, T-Bone>>
Dude, if the writers of your texts insist that the fundamental pitch of a tenor
or bass trombone is concert C, then they *are* wrong. If, on the other hand,
they insist that when a trombone plays what he reads in bass-clef as a written
C, it sounds as a concert C, then they're entirely correct.
What I'm trying to get across, hopefully with less ire and shouting than you
seem intent on, is the difference between construction and writing.
Richard Moon
<<Fine. Whatever. Just drop it, I don't like to discuss things with
obdurate individuals. Just keep on keepin' on and don't lose your
footing along the way.>>
Sorry, but neither I nor Nikk are being obdurate. We're simply staing our
positions. Just because we don't fold and cry for uncle the first time you use
exclamation points doesn't make us close-minded.
Richard Moon
the word "obdurate."
++
np >>
C'mon, Nikk, he was only semi-quoting Gilbert and Sullivan!
"And if you remain callous and obdurate I
will perish as he did, and you shall know why.
Though I probably will not exclaim as I die...
willow, tit willow, tit willow."
JERRY TB1
that professional bands write for trombones in bass cleff. if you don't
position the slide your base note is Bb'. A professional band will not adapt
to your reading ability just because you can play. You either read the shit as
written or your out of there.
http://www.dci.org/cybercast/index.html
http://home.maine.rr.com/bhsdl/images/bddesk2.jpg
Kevin Gamin
a place to practice without disturbing my neighbors. I just wanted advice
about switching from baritone bugle to trombone! Now, how about giving me some
helpful advice instead of doing the usual RAMD thing and arguing about anything
and everything even remotely related to the original topic.
LEG at cba
>that professional bands write for trombones in bass cleff. if you don't
>position the slide your base note is Bb'. A professional band will not adapt
>to your reading ability just because you can play. You either read the shit
>as
>written or your out of there.
Easy Jerry! Go take your meds!
BTW, Sky Alumni can always use another 1st bari.
Larry "G"
Richard Moon
>that professional bands write for trombones in bass cleff. if you don't
>position the slide your base note is Bb'. A professional band will not adapt
>to your reading ability just because you can play. You either read the shit
>as
>written or your out of there.
Whoa there.
I'd like to apologize, since it seems that I'm pretty much at fault for this
particular argument, though I can't for the life of me figure out why this
topic brings out so much beligerence in a few people.
I hope my original thoughts were of some help to the original poster. Like I
said, learn those slide positions, learn bass clef. Some other great ideas out
there; Play the horn, just to get used to the difference in air-flow. Work on
sharpening up your tonguing, slurs are just this side of illegal with a slide.
Aaron Frost
<hfm...@aol.comrttem> wrote:
| I sympathize. The only problem is that you'd end up with plenty of fine
| euphs,
| but not a single potential good trombone player. The Trombone can be an
| unforgiving instrument in terms of intonation, no doubt, and the only way to
| solve that is practice.
Although, some could say that the trombone is the easiest instrument to
tune, since the slide can be used to tune as you are playing.
Although, beginning players obviously biff positions, which makes
playing out of tune. Also, the trombone is the instrument that is the
most similair to the human voice (I don't remember where I read that,
but I'm not making it up).
| And, to some discerning listeners, the timbre *is* different
| between a 'bone
| and a euph. Maybe not important to most people, I suppose, but I was never
| comfortable playing a good Bb Euph in the orchestra while my Bass 'bone was
| in
| the shop. Just didn't sound right....
| Richard, Euph
Interesting that you mention the timbre. Something (At least to me)
that I've noticed is that a French Horn and Trombone sound very
similiar in a concert setting, whereas a Mellophone sounds more like a
soprano (with less "edge" of course) in drum corps setting. Obviously
this is because of a lot of reasons, but I still find it interesting.
Aaron Frost
Blue Stars Bari '99??
Terri Dittrich
<stea...@netscape.net> wrote:
> In article <19991028030742...@ng-fw1.aol.com>, Richard Moon
> <hfm...@aol.comrttem> wrote:
>
> | I sympathize. The only problem is that you'd end up with plenty of fine
> | euphs,
> | but not a single potential good trombone player. The Trombone can be an
> | unforgiving instrument in terms of intonation, no doubt, and the only way
to
> | solve that is practice.
>
> Although, some could say that the trombone is the easiest instrument to
> tune, since the slide can be used to tune as you are playing.
> Although, beginning players obviously biff positions, which makes
> playing out of tune. Also, the trombone is the instrument that is the
> most similair to the human voice (I don't remember where I read that,
> but I'm not making it up).
I have always heard that the french horn is the instrument closest to a
human singing voice.
>
> | And, to some discerning listeners, the timbre *is* different
> | between a 'bone
> | and a euph. Maybe not important to most people, I suppose, but I was
never
> | comfortable playing a good Bb Euph in the orchestra while my Bass 'bone
was
> | in
> | the shop. Just didn't sound right....
> | Richard, Euph
>
> Interesting that you mention the timbre. Something (At least to me)
> that I've noticed is that a French Horn and Trombone sound very
> similiar in a concert setting,
Well, I'm gonna have to disagree with you about the trombone and french
horn.
whereas a Mellophone sounds more like a
> soprano (with less "edge" of course) in drum corps setting. Obviously
> this is because of a lot of reasons, but I still find it interesting.
>
> Aaron Frost
> Blue Stars Bari '99??
-Terri
French horn player since dinosaur roamed the earth
--
Though no one can go back and make a brand new start, anyone can start from
now and make a brand new ending
- Carl Bard
Aaron Frost
<hfm...@aol.comrttem> wrote:
| Work on sharpening up your tonguing, slurs are just this side of illegal with a slide.
| Richard, Euph
Well, unless you like playing glissandi's all the time ;)
Scott Williams
> | between a 'bone
> | and a euph. Maybe not important to most people, I suppose, but I was
never
> | comfortable playing a good Bb Euph in the orchestra while my Bass
'bone was
> | in
> | the shop. Just didn't sound right....
> | Richard, Euph
>
That's because a Euphonium is a conical bore instrument and the 'bone is
cylindrical bored. It's supposed to sound different.
> Interesting that you mention the timbre. Something (At least to me)
> that I've noticed is that a French Horn and Trombone sound very
> similiar in a concert setting,
Don't ever tell a Horn player that, it pisses them off. Horns shouldn't and
don't sound like 'bones if they're played correctly.
Again a horn is a conical bore instrument, whereas the 'bone is not. a horn
and a euph SHOULD sound darker if they are playing correctly and the
instrument is in decent shape.
--
Scott Williams
SCV '92
VK '90
RMM '86-'89
Terri Dittrich
wroe4...@aol.com (WRoe424922) wrote:
>>I have always heard that the french horn is the instrument closest to a
>>human singing voice.
>
> Oh Kiltielass, you apparently have yet to hear some of us sing......you may
> want to rethink that statement after an earful...but, then again......you did
> say "human".so you may be in the clear.........Happy Holidays Terri, to you
and\
> your entire family!!!...WWBD....Bill
AW, my Kiltie brothers and sisters! Love you all:.-)
Happy Holidays to all of you!
And I can't open LadyT...@excite.com anymore so all you guys need to e
me at this addy or Kiltie...@yahoo.com.
:-)
-Terri
WRoe424922
nomail
<swill...@uswest.net> wrote:
| > Interesting that you mention the timbre. Something (At least to me)
| > that I've noticed is that a French Horn and Trombone sound very
| > similiar in a concert setting,
|
| Don't ever tell a Horn player that, it pisses them off. Horns shouldn't and
| don't sound like 'bones if they're played correctly.
| Again a horn is a conical bore instrument, whereas the 'bone is not. a horn
| and a euph SHOULD sound darker if they are playing correctly and the
| instrument is in decent shape.
I don't mean that as an insult...It's just something I noticed...maybe
I'm the only one. "Darkness" also differs with range. A 'bone CAN
sound dark if played correctly also. There's ups and downs to all
instruments. Personally, I love the sound of a great balances jazz
trombone section.