Of IF, Jazz, and Why We Can't Seem to Get Along
Magnus Olsson
Think of this newsgroup as a cafe; the kind of place where people
drop in not just for a cup of tea, but for a chat with
friends. Imagine, further, that this particular cafe is the locus for
a bunch of jazz musicians: people who like to sit around and discuss
their particular kind of music. The hard core of regulars are into
some rather esoteric, "arty" jazz forms, but the place is frequented
as well by trad jazz musicians, people into jazz/hip hop fusion, and
laymen who can't tell hard bop from cool, but still enjoy the music
and like to chat with the musicians.
The regulars tend to get a bit defensive at times. After all, their
particular form of music isn't very popular anymore - it had its
heydays in the sixties, but young people nowadays regard it as some
weird stone-age fossil. But most of the time, the atmosphere is
friendly and open-minded.
Occasionally, patrons venture to discuss country and western, or
even synthpop; sometimes, they quite vocally state that they prefer
these genres to the music of the regulars. They are generally
tolerated, because people here are all _musicians_ (or, at least,
they're all into music).
Every once in a while, some of the regulars fall out over something,
or join up against some hapless newcomer who just asked the same
cluless question the 28 newcomers before him asked, but feelings
quickly calm down again. At long intervals, a stone is thrown through
the window, with an attached banner "JA55 IS DEAD. DETH METL R00LZ,"
but these barbaric incursions are easily ignored (after all, virtual
glass is cheap to replace).
Then, one day, a newcomer walks up to the regulars' table. He's
clearly a sharp young man; fresh out of college, with well-honed
debating skills and lots of radical ideas. He's presented those ideas
before, in other cafes. Sure, his ideas always encounter some
opposition, but he is a bit polemic - intentionally so, the better to
shake up the convicitions of the conservative old-timers - and usually
he's appreciated for the clever fellow he is.
So, he walks up to the regulars' table, and presents his arguments:
Jazz music is dead.
Yeah, sure, everybody knows that it's at least marginalized, the
regulars grudgingly concede.
But our hero knows more than that: he knows the Reason, he has a
Theory. Jazz music is dead - OK, _marginalized_, you old farts still
insist on playing it - because it is improvised. And improvised music
is Wrong. Not only does our hero not like it, he has Objective Reasons
to believe that improvisation is the Wrong Way to Go.
Before the regulars have caught their breaths, he goes on:
In order to survive and evolve, Jazz music Must abandon
improvisation. The Future lies in pre-programmed synthesizers, with
their infinitely better precision and potential for
complexity. The audience doesn't want improvised music, can't
appreciate it, won't appreciate it; and, besides, there is no Artistic
Potential in it. And here our young hereo hauls out a bunch of
academic treatises (written by experts on all kinds of music _except_
jazz) to support his views.
The regulars start protesting that they are not *interested* in making
techno music, they prefer making jazz because they like it, and that
their artistic inclination is in that direction, audience be damned.
"And the artist always is right?" The irony is . The Audience
is right! Of course, our hero means the enlightened, refined audience
which shares his views, not the poor, deluded nostalgics who still
think they like jazz.
And the he pull out his most powerful argument:
"Look, if you conservatives didn't *insist* on sticking to your
antiquated ideas, you would surely see the Truth in my Ideas."
Some of the regulars start mumbling things about muddle-headed
theoreticians, while others bring out their flamethrowers. The young
hero starts loading his shotgun with verbal ammunition such as
"anti-intellectuals", "conservatives", "horticultural approach".
================
At this point, we leave the cafe, before things get too violent.
Let me just add three things:
1) The "young hero" above is *not* intended as a caricature of Brandon
Van Every, or any other person in particular. He's just some sort of
personification of what's happened a few times before on this
newsgroup (Brandon, let me stress that I'm referring to events from
before you joined the discussion).
2) Our "hero" has a very important advantage above certain people in
the IF debate: his alternative to jazz already exists and has shown
its potential. Some of the alternatives to "traditional IF" that have
been advocated with just as much fervour do *not* exist, and their
proponents have not managed to show that they are even *possible*
without strong AI.
3) Perhaps most important: our "hero" is not necessarily wrong in the
sense that his music is less worth playing than is jazz. The vehement
reaction from the regulars has not very much to do with this.
[ I can't believe I wrote this. I really can't believe I dared post it.
I'm going to be flamed to a crisp. No, I'm going to be flamed into
nonexistance. I'm crawling back under my rock to abide my curel fate. ]
--
Magnus Olsson (m...@df.lth.se, zeb...@pobox.com)
------ http://www.pobox.com/~zebulon ------
Not officially connected to LU or LTH.
FemaleDeer
Like it.
Pour me a cup of java.
(Too bad I don't drink coffee.)
But orange or tomato juice will do.
Cute.
FD
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Femal...@aol.com The Tame Computer
"Loyalty to petrified opinion never yet broke a chain or
freed a human soul." Mark Twain (or won a game)
Julian Arnold
In article <5v1qib$fht$1...@bartlet.df.lth.se>, Magnus Olsson
<URL:mailto:m...@bartlet.df.lth.se> wrote:
> [...]
>
> [ I can't believe I wrote this. I really can't believe I dared post it.
> I'm going to be flamed to a crisp. No, I'm going to be flamed into
> nonexistance. I'm crawling back under my rock to abide my curel fate. ]
Brilliant! Post of the year!
Hm, I think I'd like to put this in the FAQ (part C). Magnus? May I,
or would it suffer in that different context?
Jools
--
"For small erections may be finished by their first architects; grand
ones, true ones, ever leave the copestone to posterity. God keep me
from ever completing anything." -- Herman Melville, "Moby Dick"
[ Please reply to jo...@arnod.demon.co.uk ]
Thomas Nilsson
FemaleDeer wrote:
>
> Like it.
>
Yup.
> Pour me a cup of java.
>
A beer for me please. (Puff) Anyone with a horn for a jam?
Thomas
--
"Little languages go a long way..." (ThoNi of SoftLab in 1985)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thomas Nilsson Phone Int:(+46)13235704 Nat:013-235704
SoftLab Mobile: 070-5617541
Datalinjen 1, S-583 30 LINKÖPING E-mail: th...@softlab.se
SWEDEN http: www.softlab.se, www.rational.com
Ivan Cockrum
In article <5v1qib$fht$1...@bartlet.df.lth.se>, (Magnus Olsson - that's
O-L-S-S-O-N) wrote:
> [ I can't believe I wrote this. I really can't believe I dared post it.
> I'm going to be flamed to a crisp. No, I'm going to be flamed into
> nonexistance. I'm crawling back under my rock to abide my curel fate. ]
Gee... I actually found it to be very entertaining. :-) Quite a nice
little parable.
Now where's the playable version of it? ;-)
-- Ivan
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Ivan Cockrum http://home.texoma.net/~ivan/ iv...@texoma.net
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Visit historic downtown CockrumVille, home of Hellacious Eats!
Laurel Halbany
m...@bartlet.df.lth.se (Magnus Olsson) wrote:
>[ I can't believe I wrote this. I really can't believe I dared post it.
> I'm going to be flamed to a crisp. No, I'm going to be flamed into
> nonexistance. I'm crawling back under my rock to abide my curel fate. ]
Why don't you just code it up as a competition entry? :*
No, actually I rather like the analogy.
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Laurel Halbany
myt...@agora.rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/users/mythago/