I didn't realise that Malinche were so arrogant
James Jolley
Happy Birthday Malinche!
On October 3, 2002 Malinche changed history when our website officially
launched
heralding the second age of commercial interactive fiction. The front
page announced
Pentari: First Light coming soon.
This event jolted the entire computer game industry. Many editors of
computer magazines
were astonished and adventure game fans rejoiced.
Infocom fans were beguiled by the announcement. Many of them couldn't
believe it
could be true....
In 2002 Malinche's existence was unexpected. It's future very uncertain.
Back then it had been years since any company even entertained the
notion of publishing
new text adventure games.
Everybody thought that interactive fiction had no future at that point.
The last
commercial effort prior to Malinche failed miserably within six months.
That effort
was led by an original Implementor from Infocom no less.
On the heels of our tremendous worldwide success, other companies have
entered (and
subsequently quit) the field.
But Malinche still stands. Sales are higher than ever, our library
stands at ten
titles with more on the way and Malinche's future is certain and
promising.
Malinche has arrived and we are here to stay.
As a Malinche customer you are part of the reason why we are thriving
against all
odds and despite the doom and gloom forecasts of conventional wisdom and
the so-called
experts and gurus in the computer game and publishing world.
To thank you for being a part of the Malinche success story I'd like to
cordially
invite you to a private party celebrating Malinche's 5th birthday.
Please pay close attention because I'd hate to see you miss out.
Malinche's Five Year Birthday Party is being held at the world famous
Borgata Resort
and Casino in Atlantic City on Wednesday October 3rd.
This private party will feature a sumptuous food and beverage service,
Malinche game
contests all day long, game give aways, special comemorative items and
much more.
You'll get the chance to meet the core Malinche team consisting of me,
Malinche's
chief engineer Mike Ferrador and Malinche's Director of Sales James
Polanco and hang
out with us.
Me and Mike will be running game workshops throughout the day, Jimmy
will try to
sell you more stuff and you'll have a blast the entire time.
For a while I'll even be Implementing right there on location. You'll
have a once-in-a-lifetime
chance to see how I make the magic happen first hand.
The specific time and location within The Borgata will be forthcoming.
Most of you know me to be quite the salesman so let me put this question
to rest:
We are not selling tickets. Admission is free.
Now here's the most important part: YOU MUST RSVP NO LATER THAN AUGUST
15TH!
Seating is limited and it's on a first-come, first-served basis. All
confirmed guests
may bring their spouse or significant other with them but just be sure
to tell us
all the details as is customary with all RSVPs.
SORRY FOR ALL THE "SHOUTING" IN CAPS BUT I WANT TO EMPHASIZE THAT YOU
CANNOT SIMPLY
SHOW UP AT THE BORGATA ON OCTOBER 3RD AND ASK THE CONCIERGE WHERE THE
MALINCHE PARTY
IS.
If you do not RSVP you are not getting in. Period.
If you RSVP too late and there's no more room then you're out of luck.
That would be unfortunate.
Once you're confirmed as a guest of Malinche we will send you a special
token which
you will need to show a member of the Malinche crew when you arrive.
Now here's the fine print: The Malinche Birthday Party is free for all
confirmed
guests. Any other costs you may incur (travel, hotel rooms, etc.) are
solely your
responsibility.
I hope you decide to join me and my crew in celebrating five years of
beating the
odds and blazing a new trail in the annals of interactive fiction
history.
1070 Highway 34 Suite P Matawan, NJ 07747
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David Kinder
> Read this folks, I think his marketing is rather unfair don't you?
If only his games were as entertaining as his press releases ...
David
Zylon
arrogant side. The whole point of marketing is to make you seem like the
best choice, if not the only choice. It does seem like the "over-the-top"
language is a wee bit much. I mean "jolted the entire computer game
industry"? That's the problem with marketing sometimes. You're not really
sure if the people are just tooting their own horn too hard or are actually
delusional enough to believe some of their more inflated claims. As far as
unfair, I'm not sure. Unfair to whom or to what?
I guess at this point the bigger question is: who's going to the Malinche
party? Come on: fess up, people.
The Taleslinger
I've never heard of this Malinche thing. Can someone explain?
Raksab
Google "Malinche" or "Howard Sherman" and you'll probably get some
stuff. Sherman is this guy who is basically a one-man commercial IF
company. Except I guess he hired some people so now it's a small
business. I've read some news that says he is marketing games to
iPods, which is pretty interesting. I wish I knew how to port a game
to iPods.
A lot of people here tend not to think highly of him because he makes
a big deal of his own IF games (which is reasonable behavior on the
part of any author, but the games are frankly poor in quality and
riddled with copyright violations), and whenever news people interview
him, he makes it sound like he is the only person out there who is
still writing IF. Calls himself "the last Implementor" and all that.
People here who disagree with stuff he says sometimes get longwinded
insults in response. I feel sorry for the folks reading those
articles who try his games and give up on IF in disappointment, never
knowing that there is much better stuff out there available for free.
Personally, I just hate him because his much-vaunted "Pentari: First
Light" is a piece of theft. Sherman obviously is a fan of the Amber
series (even his screen name is "Lord Random," after a major character
in the books) and he stole the idea of the Trump cards without giving
one word of credit to Roger Zelazny, the original author ... which
would've been bad enough by itself. But to do that in a game he sells
for money is immoral and illegal. The probable reason his ass has not
been sued is because the publisher hasn't noticed him.
... anyways, I don't live anywhere near Atlantic City and I have
better things to do with my vacation time.
Jim Aikin
last remaining supporter of George Bush and Dick Cheney.
--JA
DenizenOfShadows
guess?
"Jim Aikin" <midig...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:f8anv3$mtg$1...@aioe.org...
Zylon
news:nQ5qi.41327$Um6....@newssvr12.news.prodigy.net...
> OMG is that really true he's a BC supporter or is that just an educated
> guess?
Could just be an uneducated assumption. I personally don't care about the
guy's political views. I've gone through a few threads here to see what this
"Malinche" was all about. Found the Web site. It's okay. Found the marketing
stuff. It's largely over the top but in the true sense of trying to
sell,sell,sell so I'm not really sure I can fault that. I see a lot of bile
spewed across the newsgroup regarding this guy and his company. The problem
is that I can't really find much in the way of facts. People claim his games
suck, but there's no real reviews of them that I can see, except for some
comments about a demo. I also can't find out any independent information
about the company itself beyond a few references on some gaming sites. It
would be interesting to hear from people who have purchased some (even one)
of his games and see what they thought. Some of them (like "Greystone") do
sound pretty cool.
So: anyone? Any feedback based on what you know rather than what you heard
from someone else who heard something from a post they read?
Mike Snyder
news:1185471337.1...@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
> Personally, I just hate him because his much-vaunted "Pentari: First
> Light" is a piece of theft. Sherman obviously is a fan of the Amber
> series (even his screen name is "Lord Random," after a major character
> in the books) and he stole the idea of the Trump cards without giving
> one word of credit to Roger Zelazny, the original author ... which
> would've been bad enough by itself. But to do that in a game he sells
> for money is immoral and illegal. The probable reason his ass has not
> been sued is because the publisher hasn't noticed him.
I hate to play the part of Devil's advocate, especially since I share many
of the same disappointments with how Howard markets Malinche, but I did want
to throw in a little different take on this.
You can copyright something in a fixed form, but you can't copyright a
concept. If memory serves -- and it may not, as it's been a couple years
since I read the Amber series -- the Trump cards are carried by each member
of the family, depict each of the other family members, and can be used to,
in essence, "teleport" to wherever that person is now (in addition to
communicating with them through the cards). It's a pretty specific idea, but
it's one that *I think* could be stolen as-is without violating copyright at
all. I'm not saying Howard shouldn't have credited the source as a courtesy,
just that I don't think copyright law *requires* him to -- let alone get
permission to use the idea in his game.
I don't know how far-reaching this is. You don't need Star Trek's permission
to included a a teleporter in your game, as they didn't need permission from
wherever they swiped it (The Fly? Earlier? Dunno). You definitely couldn't
use the same character and settings, even though this is still just a story
element, so I don't know where the lines are drawn. I think if Howard isn't
calling it the "Amber Trump Cards" in his game, he hasn't done anything
illegal.
---- Mike.
Mike Snyder
news:BP2dnSSYiPZncDXb...@comcast.com...
>
> "Malinche" was all about. Found the Web site. It's okay. Found the
> marketing stuff. It's largely over the top but in the true sense of trying
> to sell,sell,sell so I'm not really sure I can fault that. I see a lot of
> bile spewed across the newsgroup regarding this guy and his company. The
> problem is that I can't really find much in the way of facts. People claim
> his games suck, but there's no real reviews of them that I can see, except
> for some comments about a demo. I also can't find out any independent
> information about the company itself beyond a few references on some
> gaming sites. It would be interesting to hear from people who have
> purchased some (even one) of his games and see what they thought. Some of
> them (like "Greystone") do sound pretty cool.
On the one hand, I'd like to buy copies to play and review. On the other,
I'm not sure I want to feed Howard's sales.
It's not entirely the Malinche website that has rubbed people the wrong way.
It's how Howard presents Malinche in articles he's written and in interviews
he's given. The IF community is either ignored entirely, or dismissed as a
bunch of amateurs without anything good to offer in comparison to Malinche's
catalogue. It's marketing, yes, but it seems to show up everywhere Howard
goes. There was an article about modern IF at one of the adventure game
sites a while back. Instead of being a useful, interesting article, it was a
Malinche ad in which Howard touts himself as the only active "implementer"
of Interactive Fiction. He's also stated that he has "moved" an ungodly
number of copies of his games (anybody remember? 300,000?) in a way that
suggests these are full-priced retail sales. Such a thing cannot be, and
it's more likely that this includes free demo downloads from online as well.
But there has never been any official clarification.
I think what people would like is an ackowledgement from Howard, in his
press dealings, that he is *not* the only person writing Interactive
Fiction, and that the IF community is alive, well, and producing very
worthwhile games. Obviously, that's not in his best interest, but it's going
to keep a rift in place, probably indefinitely.
---- Mike.
Adam Thornton
Raksab <thel...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>I've read some news that says he is marketing games to
>iPods, which is pretty interesting. I wish I knew how to port a game
>to iPods.
Well, I run iPod Linux. A Frotz port would be pretty easy.
Input would really suck though.
Adam
namekuseijin
http://www.adventureclassicgaming.com/index.php/site/features/219/
this was already bad enough, but then, there was his over-the-top
reply to some of the comments:
http://www.adventureclassicgaming.com/index.php/site/comments/219/P10/
Somehow, his comment got 5 stars, while whinners were at 1. I realize
people in America praise entrepreneurs and commercial entities like
some kind of deity above all good and evil.
A raif post ensued:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.int-fiction/browse_thread/thread/98137fc76625d4fd/8e1084c580367b98?q=malinche+insults&lnk=ol&
And this is how we come to all this hatred towards Howard today.
I've tried the Pentari demo and even pointed out to him via email what
I felt was wrong and didn't work about his work, like the pretty bland
world model and little freedom or incentive for the player to interact
with the environments. Truth be told, he put on air a few corrections
and more interactions to the game.
I have a feeling though that the works are mostly Infocom era maze/
puzzle feasts plus lots of non-interactive paragraphs of bad teen
scifi. But then again, perhaps the market do want that rather than
more literary or experimental and gameless approaches of the
community. Some want IF to be e-lit, others, a mere game. Tough
call...
"This event jolted the entire computer game industry."
oh, man! I can imagine this event was so big the big boys from Sony
and Microsoft were losing there sleep. :)
"Everybody thought that interactive fiction had no future at that
point."
ha! and I was beginning to think to myself that highly polished
titles like Savoir-Faire, Photopia, All Roads or Spider and Web were
becoming more exciting than the prospect of playing the old maze/
puzzle feasts from the past...
"our tremendous worldwide success"
it's a ravaging success no doubt! I see lots of webforums, usenet and
blog posts from all over the world praising the Last Grand Implementor
Howard!
"Sales are higher than ever, our library stands at ten titles with
more on the way and Malinche's future is certain and promising.
Malinche has arrived and we are here to stay."
good grief! This is just as bad as much self-assurance gibberish as
boys entering younghood seem to babble!
Hmm, I found this about Herman:
http://www.bookpros.com/bp_pages/bp_author_bio.php?book_id=26
a "Microsoft Certified System Engineer", huh? I should've
guessed... ;)
"The First Mile will be the first interactive fiction available on
Apple's iPod."
Regardless of Malinche teen efforts, I want frotz and tads running on
iPhone that's for sure.
Mike Snyder
news:1185478981.3...@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com...
> Here:
> http://www.adventureclassicgaming.com/index.php/site/features/219/
>
> this was already bad enough, but then, there was his over-the-top
> reply to some of the comments:
> http://www.adventureclassicgaming.com/index.php/site/comments/219/P10/
>
> Somehow, his comment got 5 stars, while whinners were at 1. I realize
> people in America praise entrepreneurs and commercial entities like
> some kind of deity above all good and evil.
>
> A raif post ensued:
> http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.int-fiction/browse_thread/thread/98137fc76625d4fd/8e1084c580367b98?q=malinche+insults&lnk=ol&
>
> And this is how we come to all this hatred towards Howard today.
That was only earlier this year. I think Howard was already rubbing people
the wrong way even before I came back to IF in 2004.
---- Mike.
Mike Snyder
news:5Y6qi.2824$dA7....@newsfe16.lga...
>
> That was only earlier this year. I think Howard was already rubbing people
> the wrong way even before I came back to IF in 2004.
Woops - it was nearly a year ago now. How time flies.
--- Mike.
Zylon
> I think what people would like is an ackowledgement from Howard, in his
> press dealings, that he is *not* the only person writing Interactive
> Fiction, and that the IF community is alive, well, and producing very
> worthwhile games. Obviously, that's not in his best interest, but it's
> going to keep a rift in place, probably indefinitely.
But on the other hand, it's not his job to promote this community or even
acknowledge it. It would be nice, I suppose but, as you said, it's not in
his best interest. (Sort of like Microsoft really, really, really hoping
open source will either go away or be minimized.) I guess I'm wondering: why
doesn't this community do its own promoting? Has anyone written to these
sites that have interviewed Howard (like that Adventure Gaming one) and
talked about the possible unfair representation or the one-sided
interviewing being done? Or forgetting all that, just promoting some of the
free games available? Has Graham Nelson or Mike Roberts or Kent Tessman or
anyone else who largely works with this community, asked to be interviewed?
What about some of the more prolific authors here? I'm not saying it's
anyone's job to do this but clearly Howard is getting his name out there.
Whether it's at the expense of this wider group is debtable. At the very
least now I know this is all pretty much smoke and no fire.
Greg Boettcher
>From what I've seen, "getting your name out there" outside the IF
community usually only happens when people work hard at getting
publicity -- sending out press releases and so forth. And from what
I've seen, people don't usually bother with such a chore unless they
have a financial stake in it (i.e. if they're selling a game). Howard
Sherman has done it, but so have Peter Nepstad and Kent Tessman. So
could anybody else, but only if they're willing to do the work.
Greg
Rikard Peterson
"Mike Snyder" <wy...@prowler-pro.com> wrote:
Time flies even faster than that. The interview states "First posted on
15 April 2003". Last year was simply when Adventure Collective
re-launched as Adventure Classic Gaming.
Rikard
Mike Snyder
>
> But on the other hand, it's not his job to promote this community or even
> acknowledge it. It would be nice, I suppose but, as you said, it's not in
> his best interest. (Sort of like Microsoft really, really, really hoping
Right -- but when confronted directly, Howard then paints the *wrong*
picture of the IF community. In Howard's picture, none of us have written
any successful games. The number of IF players for all free IF combined is
far less than Howard's customer base. Howard has "moved" more copies of his
games than all the free IF combined. Howard writes IF that people like, and
nobody else can/does. People who try free IF hate it but love Malinche
games. That kind of thing. There is no attempt, feigned or otherwise, at
co-existing with the IF community. Howard describes us as inconsequential,
and below consideration.
Maybe it's a blessing that Howard *doesn't* talk about IF at large unless
pressed into doing so. But still, it presents a twisted view that's probably
easy to believe from the outside.
I do not, and will not accept that Howard has sold 150,000 copies of is
games, though. I commented about this before. "Moved" seems like no
accidental word choice. Where are these customers? Where are these fans?
Despite his best efforts, there is no way he can hide the IF community from
*all* of these customers.
I'm not against the shareware concept (done it myself), commercial games
(self-marketed, done it myself), for-pay IF, whatever. Howard *might* have
found allies among the IF community if his approach had been different.
Imagine a commercial IF enterprise with Howard's tenacity and his
willingness to advertise and promote Malinche, but with the support and
talent of the IF community behind it. It's possible that the reality of
Malinche *might* be more in line with Howard's vision of it.
The Textfyre business seems like the right idea, and I wonder how Howard's
going to spin his "the last commercial developer" angle once Textfyre's
first game is released?
---- Mike.
David Whyld
> The Textfyre business seems like the right idea, and I wonder how Howard's
> going to spin his "the last commercial developer" angle once Textfyre's
> first game is released?
>
> ---- Mike.
Probably in the same way as he does now: claiming he's still the only
one and denying the existence of anyone else. The fact that we all
know he's lying changes nothing. After all, we know he's lying about
his "150,000 copies moved" comment yet it's never stopped him spouting
it every opportunity he gets.
constantl...@gmail.com
It seems to me that Mr Sherman really believes IF would be dead were
it not for Malinche. Most of us here on RAIF know this to be false.
The real source of all the antagonism, I think, is the potential for
an IF newbie to miss out on the IF community because of Malinche's
marketing strategy. Not very likely, I would think---and a Google
search for "interactive fiction" proves me right.
So let's not panic, and let's look at Malinche as what it is---a
company that sells games. That's not to say it's wrong to discuss
Howard Sherman's marketing style, but I see no rationale for getting
to emotional about it or angry with Mr Sherman.
Greetings,
CV
Zylon
news:1185484890.9...@w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> It seems to me that Mr Sherman really believes IF would be dead were
> it not for Malinche. Most of us here on RAIF know this to be false.
> The real source of all the antagonism, I think, is the potential for
> an IF newbie to miss out on the IF community because of Malinche's
> marketing strategy. Not very likely, I would think---and a Google
> search for "interactive fiction" proves me right.
Agreed. I'm an "IF newbie" and I didn't even know of Malinche until this
thread came up. I actually kept finding a bunch of blogs mentioning Inform
7, which is how I stumbled my way here. Even if Howard believes IF would be
dead without his company, I don't think that's claiming much. I mean, let's
face it: claiming you are the sole person keeping text adventures "alive"
isn't much of a claim.
> So let's not panic, and let's look at Malinche as what it is---a
> company that sells games. That's not to say it's wrong to discuss
> Howard Sherman's marketing style, but I see no rationale for getting
> to emotional about it or angry with Mr Sherman.
Makes sense to me. It seems to me that people are just upset that Howard or
Malinche or whatever promotes IF a certain way, which may or may not be
dishonest. But I don't exactly see anyone trying to counter that in a way
that's actually effective or useful. Like I said: lots of smoke, absolutely
no fire.
namekuseijin
> Not very likely, I would think---and a Google
> search for "interactive fiction" proves me right.
and BTW, the more we talk about it, the more it grows. Even hate
speak is good marketing for Mr. Sherman, at least in Google's eyes.
namekuseijin
> lots of smoke, absolutely no fire.
that sounds like a good slogan for Malinche games... :)
Jim Aikin
>
> Could just be an uneducated assumption. I personally don't care about the
> guy's political views.
It was a fantasy. I made it up. For all I know, Howard is as much of a
progressive as I am. I was trying to suggest that his misplaced
arrogance is as glaring as that of Bush and Cheney.
> I see a lot of bile
> spewed across the newsgroup regarding this guy and his company. The problem
> is that I can't really find much in the way of facts. People claim his games
> suck, but there's no real reviews of them that I can see, except for some
> comments about a demo.
Okay, since you brought the subject up, I will tell the story. I
generally avoid telling it, because Howard has successfully intimidated
me into silence. But just this once....
About three years ago I was going to review Pentari: First Light for
SPAG. Paul O'Brian had agreed to publish the review, Howard sent me a
free Not-For-Resale copy of the game, and I started playing it.
From a few emails I sent him with questions and/or comments, Howard got
the impression (which was certainly warranted) that the review was not
going to be as glowing or as praise-packed as he felt he had a right to
expect. At that point he more or less explicitly threatened to sue both
me and SPAG if the review was published.
He was snotty. He was vile.
Paul and I decided, with regret, that even though we would almost
certainly prevail in an actual court battle, we didn't need the cost or
the ulcers. So I stopped work on the review.
That, in a nutshell, is why you haven't read any reviews of Malinche
games, and why you probably won't EVER see an objective review.
But if you'd like to purchase a copy and write a review for some
courageous publisher, go for it. I'll even send you my notes, if you
promise not to mention me by name.
--JA
just...@gmail.com
power he gets.
If he doesn't care about the Interactive Fiction Community, if he
sees it all as a waste of time, let him. Doesn't hurt us one bit.
I think most people who are interested in Interactive Fiction are
fairly net savvy, and will discover it through some combination of
Google, Wikipedia and eventually finding this Usenet group.
I know that's how I learned, and to be honest I would have never
heard of this guy were it not for this thread.
Let him shamelessly self promote himself. Fact remains that, to most
of the newer lurkers in this group, Malinche did not exist until this
thread.
Timofei Shatrov
to confuse everyone with this message:
>Howard Sherman is a case study in misplaced arrogance. He's probably the
>last remaining supporter of George Bush and Dick Cheney.
This is one of the most hypocritical Usenet posts I've ever seen.
--
|Don't believe this - you're not worthless ,gr---------.ru
|It's us against millions and we can't take them all... | ue il |
|But we can take them on! | @ma |
| (A Wilhelm Scream - The Rip) |______________|
Zer
> That, in a nutshell, is why you haven't read any reviews of Malinche
> games, and why you probably won't EVER see an objective review.
>
> --JA
Actually there is some:
http://www.justadventure.com/reviews/Pentari/Pentari.shtm
http://www.justadventure.com/reviews/FirstMile/FirstMile.shtm
http://www.justadventure.com/reviews/Greystone/Greystone.shtm
http://adventuregamers.com/article/id,580
David Whyld
First Light" - and found it to be every bit as bad as it was reputed
to be. No, I didn't buy the game, someone sent me their copy. (There
was a lengthy debate on here about this a while back.) If that's the
kind of quality Malinche is putting out, anyone who decides to give
the games a miss is only doing themselves a favour.
For what it's worth, I'd be interested to see some cold hard facts
about Malinche. How many copies the games have actually sold. I've
never seen one in a computer store and don't know of anyone that has,
I've never seen a proper discussion of one of them on the internet and
the last time I checked the Malinche website, the forum had about a
dozen posts. This from a company that supposedly has 150,000
customers? Where are they all? If Howard has managed to sell even 10%
of what he claims, I'd be very, very surprised.
namekuseijin
> I've
> never seen one in a computer store and don't know of anyone that has,
for what it's worth, I don't think you'll see it in computer stores.
Try bookstores, as it seems Howard is marketing the works as
legitimate works of fiction. Google for "malinche interactive-
fiction".
The Taleslinger
Well,
I must say that's a whole load of answers to a simple questions.
Thanks, everyone.
Urbatain
or two), so it's impossible to judge his works. A lot of people here
say that his games are bad, but that just doesn't count, it's the same
propaganda as his pretended success, so I hope someone post reviews
(better to SPAG :)) so we could judge better the "situation".
However, it has no matter at all, I don't know why spend so much time,
space and words discussing about Malinche.
Urbatain.
Urbatain
>
> On the one hand, I'd like to buy copies to play and review. On the other,
> I'm not sure I want to feed Howard's sales.
>
Well, if you register in his website, you can get a free game. Maybe
is a start to see the real level of his productions (not a clever step
if he offer a bad game for free...)
Urbatain.
Urbatain
Malinche completely. Just Malinche has zero relevance on the net,
while this group and the whole Interactive Fiction community show up
first on a google search. So, just, don't waste time here and there
with this topic.
I promise I won't post any more in such a thread :)
See you.
Urbatain.
The Taleslinger
On a side note, reading the website, I imagine his games to be
something like this:
THE AZTEC TEMPEL
This tempel is well researched by howard- It has walls unseen before
in IF, or 3-D videogames for that matter. It has signs on it, designed
by Howard. There is a gate here.
>open door
There was no Howard in that sentence!
>Open door Howard
It is locked. You wonder what Howard would do in your situation.
>read signs
These are signs, completely awesome, by Howard. It's in Aztec, not by
Howard, but he understands it very well, being an excellent
researcher.
>i
You carry some awesome stuff! Well implented, better than in any
freeware IF. And all of it written by Howard.
>x myself
As good looking as ever. (Though not as Howard.)
Okay, I'm just being a meanie.
namekuseijin
> A lot of people here
> say that his games are bad, but that just doesn't count, it's the same
> propaganda as his pretended success, so I hope someone post reviews
> (better to SPAG :)) so we could judge better the "situation".
What makes you feel a "review" is not as biased as some people
honestly exposing their opinions? Most reviews out there in big
magazines are just paid propaganda. This is what you get from living
in a corporation-dominated society. But there's some hope of meeting
with honest opinions in little user-fed communities like this one.
I've read some of the reviews from the links someone above provided.
His first game was met with enthusiasm, but the last one got an
average score. I wonder about next efforts.
But sure, trust no one but yourself.
Zylon
> On 27 jul, 11:47, Urbatain <urbat...@gmail.com> wrote:
> honestly exposing their opinions? Most reviews out there in big
> magazines are just paid propaganda. This is what you get from living
> in a corporation-dominated society. But there's some hope of meeting
> with honest opinions in little user-fed communities like this one.
I needed a laugh today. This mildly conspiracist bent did the trick. It's
the little "user-fed" communities that are often more biased than not,
especially when they operate on the fringe so to speak of some area. I'm not
saying there's not bias in various places or media, but it's not quite as
simplistic as you make it out. But, trust me, a community like this has its
own sort of biases built in. That's not a bad thing since the act of
critiquing anything implies some bias, at least if a human being is doing
the critiquing.
> But sure, trust no one but yourself.
Here you hit on something. Even if people write reviews of these Malinche
games or any others, it doesn't really tell you anything necessarily
regardless of whether there is or isn't bias. There are certain games I've
read glowing reviews on in magazines. So I go buy the game. I end up hating
it. (I'm thinking of Scarface and Godfather here.) Other reviews I saw
bashed certain games left and right. Then, for whatever reason, I ended up
buying it or having it bought for me. I ended up really enjoying it. (Here
I'm thinking of Tunguska.)
So I'm going to give one of the Malinche games a shot. I'm thinking
Greystone just because I like the setting and theme, although First Mile
does sound interesting.
Al
> On 27 Jul., 13:03, namekuseijin <namekusei...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On 27 jul, 03:48, David Whyld <dwh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > I've
> > > never seen one in a computer store and don't know of anyone that has,
>
> > for what it's worth, I don't think you'll see it in computer stores.
> > Try bookstores, as it seems Howard is marketing the works as
> > legitimate works of fiction. Google for "malinche interactive-
> > fiction".
His works as far as I know are sold entirely over the Net.
They are definitely NOT in any stores that I'm aware of.
Boluc Papuccuoglu
wrote:
Well, you won't see a SPAG review for a Howard Sherman game. A few
years back, somebody posted a review to SPAG, Howard Sherman got wind
that the review was unfavourable and unleashed a torrent of abuse in
Paul O'Brian's that made him declare that no game by Howard Sherman
would ever be reviewed in SPAG. Of course, now that Paul has passed on
the mantle, things may change.
Boluc Papuccuoglu
Paul O'Brian
<bolucPERIODpapuccuo...@REMOVETHISaknet.com.tr> wrote:
> A few
> years back, somebody posted a review to SPAG, Howard Sherman got wind
> that the review was unfavourable and unleashed a torrent of abuse in
> Paul O'Brian's that made him declare that no game by Howard Sherman
> would ever be reviewed in SPAG.
It wasn't so much the torrent of abuse as the "I'm going to sue you if
you publish this bad review." Who needs that kind of hassle? So I
reassured Howard that SPAG would never mention him or his company as
long as I ran it, which seemed to satisfy him. As you say, Jimmy may
(or may not) choose a different tack.
Paul O'Brian
namekuseijin
> the little "user-fed" communities that are often more biased than not,
> especially when they operate on the fringe so to speak of some area.
well, biased or not, at least this is my honest opinion being exposed.
There's no one paying me to bash Malinche. I just downloaded a demo
and found this thread and wrote what I thought about something I
experienced for myself. I'm biased though, better yet, exploited by
the best games from the community and so my expectations were high for
a commercial offering. I met with subpar writing, lots of bugs,
little interactivity and a less polished experience overall. That's
it, my opinion, no payment.
> So I'm going to give one of the Malinche games a shot.
great.
Mike Snyder
> So I'm going to give one of the Malinche games a shot. I'm thinking
> Greystone just because I like the setting and theme, although First Mile
> does sound interesting.
Did you end up ordering one? They're on the pricey side -- $25 for an
instant download, or $35 for the "folio edition" (comes by mail). And that's
for each game.
At one point, I had wanted to buy one or two to play and review. Then I
decided I never would. This morning, though, I looked at the Malinche site
thinking I remembered the games being in the $15 range. The actual price was
a surprise.
---- Mike.
Dan Schmidt
> However, there are no reviews at all of his games on the net (just one
> or two), so it's impossible to judge his works.
All I've done is look at screenshots, but here are some examples of
bad writing in them:
http://www.malinche.net/pfl2.jpg:
"Not known for their artistic interests or, indeed, their
organizational skills, this lobby is a bit bland and cluttered."
"doorways lead in all diretions [sic]."
"A study area for apprentices and masters alike, bookcases crammed
with magical lore line the walls"
http://www.malinche.net/pfl3.jpg:
"Kari's eyes go wide with fright and screeches 'A wizard!'"
http://www.malinche.net/pfl6.jpg:
"Your lungs are assaulted by the thick, humid air as you look around
this massive cavern which rises high above where stalctites and
flowstone dot the ceiling and walls while water completely fills the
room itself."
"With rough and uneven walls and a very tall ceiling reaching far
overhead, all of the geological wonders around you are instantly
dismissed as your eyes lock on to the single biggest living thing
you've ever seen; a dragon!"
"Drawing your attention back to the ceiling of this cavernouse room,
you can see the sky through a wide opening."
Zylon
news:SQori.13978$lZ7....@newsfe20.lga...
> Did you end up ordering one? They're on the pricey side -- $25 for an
> instant download, or $35 for the "folio edition" (comes by mail). And
> that's for each game.
Yeah, they're a little pricey. I can actually get some good Sam & Max
episodes for that kind of money. But I'm genuinely curious. Haven't ordered
yet but I'm probably going for Greystone since I'll have some time this
upcoming weekend to play around.
Zylon
news:1185807848.4...@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> It wasn't so much the torrent of abuse as the "I'm going to sue you if
> you publish this bad review." Who needs that kind of hassle? So I
> reassured Howard that SPAG would never mention him or his company as
> long as I ran it, which seemed to satisfy him. As you say, Jimmy may
> (or may not) choose a different tack.
The only slight problem here is that it's an empty threat. You can't get
sued for writing a review. Or, rather, you can -- but it'll go nowhere,
unless the person can prove you did something demonstrably harmful outside
the context of a review. If this could happen Consumer Reports would have
lasted one issue. The person doing the suing will simply waste time and
energy. In the AGS community (and this goes back a few years here) we had
some authors that were threatening to sue us because some reviews of their
games were less then flattering on our site. I have no idea if they actually
tried or what but, I wasn't too worried.
Mantar
> All I've done is look at screenshots, but here are some examples of
> bad writing in them:
>
> http://www.malinche.net/pfl2.jpg:
All these screenshots are gone already. Malinche is obviously watching
this thread, which strikes me as kinda funny. Heh.
Mike Snyder
news:PMvri.13110$B25....@news01.roc.ny...
Try later. They're working fine for me.
--- Mike.
Daphne Brinkerhoff
You have to cut off the colons by hand, if you're reading this in
Google Groups, or else you get a 404 error. Maybe that's what tripped
up Mantar.
--
Daphne
Paul O'Brian
> The only slight problem here is that it's an empty threat. You can't get
> sued for writing a review. Or, rather, you can -- but it'll go nowhere,
> unless the person can prove you did something demonstrably harmful outside
> the context of a review.
Oh, right, of course -- I never entertained the notion that Howard
might actually win such a lawsuit. However, it did seem within the
realm of plausibility that Howard would *bring* such a lawsuit,
thereby creating a suckhole for my time, energy, and money. I could
have risked this to take a stand on principle, but I decided I didn't
care enough to choose that battle.
Paul O'Brian
Nikos Chantziaras
You could have published the review outside SPAG and link to it from SPAG :P
Stephen Gilbert
> It wasn't so much the torrent of abuse as the "I'm going to sue you if
> you publish this bad review." Who needs that kind of hassle? So I
> reassured Howard that SPAG would never mention him or his company as
> long as I ran it, which seemed to satisfy him. As you say, Jimmy may
> (or may not) choose a different tack.
>
> Paul O'Brian
Which game was it? Is the review still in the SPAG archives, or was it
pulled?
Mantar
>> > >http://www.malinche.net/pfl2.jpg:
>>
> You have to cut off the colons by hand, if you're reading this in
> Google Groups, or else you get a 404 error. Maybe that's what tripped
> up Mantar.
>
Ah. That's it exactly, I didn't even see the colons there.
Paul O'Brian
> Which game was it? Is the review still in the SPAG archives, or was it
> pulled?
Pentari, and no, it's not out there (that I know of.) I never included
it in SPAG. Howard got wind of its less-than-favorable tone due to the
hint requests and feedback sent to him by Jim Aikin, the review's
author.
Paul O'Brian
namekuseijin
> Which game was it? Is the review still in the SPAG archives, or was it
> pulled?
I know Emily Short reviewed in the ifreviews website "The Bastard
Operator from Hell" by Malinche, licensed from Simon Travaglia. I
believe though the best about it is the "charm" of the lovely mean
main character... :)
Emily Short
> On 31 jul, 18:17, Stephen Gilbert <stgilb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Which game was it? Is the review still in the SPAG archives, or was it
> > pulled?
>
> I know Emily Short reviewed in the ifreviews website "The Bastard
> Operator from Hell" by Malinche
Bastard Operator From Hell was an IF Competition game and distributed
as freeware according to the competition rules; to the best of my
knowledge Malinche was not yet a going concern. There are quite a few
reviews of BOFH and of Howard Sherman's earlier Baltimore:24
available, but he might argue that these productions do not reflect
the quality of current work by Malinche. Then again, who knows.
I have never bought a game from Malinche.
Zylon
Well, I just bought "Greystone" so I'll let people know about the
experience. I can't comment on this stuff about trying to sue people and the
review and all that since we can't see the original review. For all I know,
maybe the review was so bad in tone or inaccuracies so as to warrant the
response. Since none of us can really say, I'm coming into this fresh.
Here's hoping my money was well-spent.
Mike Snyder
>
> Well, I just bought "Greystone" so I'll let people know about the
> experience. I can't comment on this stuff about trying to sue people and
the
> review and all that since we can't see the original review. For all I
know,
> maybe the review was so bad in tone or inaccuracies so as to warrant the
> response. Since none of us can really say, I'm coming into this fresh.
> Here's hoping my money was well-spent.
>
I gather Howard hadn't read it to know one way or the other, and based it
soley on comments, questions, hint requests, etc sent by the reviewer via
email.
--- Mike.
Paul O'Brian
> I gather Howard hadn't read it to know one way or the other, and based it
> soley on comments, questions, hint requests, etc sent by the reviewer via
> email.
Correct.
Paul O'Brian
Zylon
news:qPOdncfOEvhfWi3b...@comcast.com...
> Well, I just bought "Greystone" so I'll let people know about the
> experience.
Umm, yeah, so I bought "Greystone" and I'm thinking that maybe people have a
point. The initial start of the game is actually pretty good in that it does
build up a bit of suspense. But there are tons of objects that are mentioned
in descriptions that you can't reference. For example, in your hospital room
there's a bed that describes part of a mattress. But if you "look at
mattress" you're told you can't see anything like that. There are numerous
examples of that same problem all over the place.
The realism is often lacking as well. For example, I'm supposedly checked
into a psych ward because I threatened to kill myself. But "Your Room",
where you start the game, has no door at all. You can just walk right out
into the hallway. There's lots of little things like that which really
detract from the realism of believing you're in a hospital for the insane or
almost insane.
The NPCs are also a little lackluster, but I've noticed this in other Inform
games so I'm not sure how much of this is due to Inform or to the
implementation of "Greystone" specifically. There's also weird asides. For
example, when I first encounter an NPC called Spider, one of the things that
pops up is: "Spider wishes Jane were even a little more receptive to him."
Who the hell is Jane?!! I don't know; this is the first mention of her. But
it's an odd mention, said as if I should have already seen or known about
this person. Again, lots of things like that.
The writing is really sparse and that doesn't make sense because you're
supposedly "acting" as a patient in order to track down a murderer. So as a
detective you would probably be one who notices lots of little things. But
all of the descriptions are very sparse, which gives almost no atmosphere to
the place at all. Plus there's no little descriptive hints to help you get
your bearings, which I would think would be useful in a detective game like
this.
Overall, at least so far, this game is pretty poor to say the least but I'll
say that it's mainly because I can tell the author didn't take a lot of time
to flesh out the world as much as possible. The story itself is potentially
interesting and the characters themselves do have potential to be
interesting in light of the story. But the actual telling of the story seems
to be what's lacking. And that's a pretty big thing to lack.
Mike Snyder
> "Zylon" <zyl...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:qPOdncfOEvhfWi3b...@comcast.com...
>
>> Well, I just bought "Greystone" so I'll let people know about the
>> experience.
Are you planning to write a full review when you're done? Giving the benefit
of the doubt, some of the things you're experiencing *might* be intentional.
For instance, it could turn out there's "something else" going on that
explains why you can leave a room without a door. I'm doubtful, but you'd
probably know after you finish it.
> Umm, yeah, so I bought "Greystone" and I'm thinking that maybe people have
> a point. The initial start of the game is actually pretty good in that it
> does build up a bit of suspense. But there are tons of objects that are
> mentioned in descriptions that you can't reference. For example, in your
> hospital room there's a bed that describes part of a mattress. But if you
> "look at mattress" you're told you can't see anything like that. There are
> numerous examples of that same problem all over the place.
There's probably no story-based reason for all of that. It's just a more
sparse implementation. I'm not even sure you'd call it laziness. It's an Old
Skool way of approaching design. Make bigger game, but don't give any
attention to "unimportant" things. If you've already played more
well-written games from the last decade, it's hard to go backward and be
satisfied with that kind of design. People who haven't probably wouldn't
even notice.
> The realism is often lacking as well. For example, I'm supposedly checked
> into a psych ward because I threatened to kill myself. But "Your Room",
> where you start the game, has no door at all. You can just walk right out
> into the hallway. There's lots of little things like that which really
> detract from the realism of believing you're in a hospital for the insane
> or almost insane.
Sounds like it was rushed.
> The NPCs are also a little lackluster, but I've noticed this in other
> Inform games so I'm not sure how much of this is due to Inform or to the
> implementation of "Greystone" specifically. There's also weird asides. For
> example, when I first encounter an NPC called Spider, one of the things
> that pops up is: "Spider wishes Jane were even a little more receptive to
> him." Who the hell is Jane?!! I don't know; this is the first mention of
> her. But it's an odd mention, said as if I should have already seen or
> known about this person. Again, lots of things like that.
Doesn't matter if they're lackluster in other Inform games -- for $25, I
think you've "bought" the right to expect more from the game. If Howard is
on the mark, you should be playing the game thinking "wow, this *is* better
than other IF I've played -- now I understand why it's worth what I paid."
If you're not thinking that, then...
> The writing is really sparse and that doesn't make sense because you're
> supposedly "acting" as a patient in order to track down a murderer. So as
> a detective you would probably be one who notices lots of little things.
> But all of the descriptions are very sparse, which gives almost no
> atmosphere to the place at all. Plus there's no little descriptive hints
> to help you get your bearings, which I would think would be useful in a
> detective game like this.
That wouldn't be so bad if there was more detail given by drilling down
(i.e., an actual response to "x mattress").
My hunch is that Howard is working in a vaccuum.
> Overall, at least so far, this game is pretty poor to say the least but
> I'll say that it's mainly because I can tell the author didn't take a lot
> of time to flesh out the world as much as possible. The story itself is
> potentially interesting and the characters themselves do have potential to
> be interesting in light of the story. But the actual telling of the story
> seems to be what's lacking. And that's a pretty big thing to lack.
It sounds like any average game -- not a $25 commercial masterpiece of
modern IF.
---- Mike.
Daphne Brinkerhoff
> "Zylon" <zylo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:jOqdnfYNTbL2yy7b...@comcast.com...
>
> > "Zylon" <zylo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:qPOdncfOEvhfWi3b...@comcast.com...
>
> >> Well, I just bought "Greystone" so I'll let people know about the
> >> experience.
>
> Are you planning to write a full review when you're done? Giving the benefit
> of the doubt, some of the things you're experiencing *might* be intentional.
> For instance, it could turn out there's "something else" going on that
> explains why you can leave a room without a door. I'm doubtful, but you'd
> probably know after you finish it.
I second this request (writing a review when you're done) -- at least,
I wish your comments about the game could go under a different
thread. The title of this one is not really relevant anymore, and
kind of puts me off.
--
Daphne
namekuseijin
> "Zylon" <zylo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > "Zylon" <zylo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > mentioned in descriptions that you can't reference.
I had the same trouble with Pentari. After reading through the many
brief but cunning and curious inducing descriptions leading to tons of
interaction from the best community IFs out there, I thought it was
dismal.
> It's an Old
> Skool way of approaching design. Make bigger game, but don't give any
> attention to "unimportant" things.
It's not a bigger game, just a game with many long exciting
descriptions about what your character is supposedly doing and little
actual *doing*.
> Doesn't matter if they're lackluster in other Inform games -- for $25, I
> think you've "bought" the right to expect more from the game.
yes.
Stephen Gilbert
And I third it. I'd really appreciate a review from someone who doesn't
have any particular history with Howard.
internisus
This is about five minutes from where I live....